Review title is These are SHORT -  half the length of a normal perm rod [SEP] NOT what I was expecting.  I thought i would get an average length rod that was very thin.  These however are very short.  About the length of my thumb or pinky.  I was doing my sons hair on top  - with grey rollers we roll thin and use about 16.  With these we rolled thin and used 47!!!!  I would not buy these again - they are more for toddlers hair or something.