user21208: Buddha says Nibbana is ajātaṃ abhūtaṃ akataṃ asaṅkhataṃ. Out of all these four, only asaṅkhataṃ (unconditioned) is something that I have to achieve.
So can I say asaṅkhataṃ is Nibbana and vice versa?
and by the way what is real meaning of asaṅkhataṃ?
Buddha says its end of greed, aversion, and delusion... But I dont think ending of these three means ending of all past sankhara.. So, in the state of asaṅkhataṃ still lots of sankhara are there. It's just that they are infertile.
So unconditioned is not right meaning of asaṅkhataṃ ... Ideally, it should be unconditionable?  What do you say?

user-1: This how i understand it,
The designation for Nibbana is 'removal of greed, anger & delusion.' It has a variety of qualified usage.
We say that the attainment of Arahantship is a removal and that an Arahant is one who has removed from the mind. The mind of an Arahant is inherently conditioned, is a sankhara but it has no greed, anger & delusion. We say that the attainment of Arahantship is an attainment of Nibbana in this sense of removal.
It is said that removal depends on destruction and that these unwholesome qualities utterly cease in one who practices the signless release or the four types of mindfulness as satipatthana leads to the signless release.
The signless release is an entering into & emerging from a meditative attainment of the 'cessation of perception & feeling'. It is also apprehended as emptiness or undirected, depending on how it was approached and what meditative theme was dominant in course of development.
This attainment is a direct seeing with the dhamma eye, one is then absorbed based on this nibbananirodhadhatu [extinguishment-cessation-principle] and it is said that this sorrowless [asoka] state is empty of greed, anger & delusion.
It is said that greed, anger & delusion are a making of signs.
Therefore this attainment of signless release qualifies to be called a removal of greed, anger & delusion and a destruction because it is empty of those qualities and because these eventually utterly cease in who practices it.
When talking about the cessation of perception & feeling one could say 'it's the foremost extreme pleasure' and in regards to that one could say Nibbana is that foremost pleasure where nothing is felt.
In this sense one would say Nibbana [removal of greed, anger & delusion] is pleasant and have it refer to the Asankhata element which is Asoka [sorrowless].
When studying the words Deathless and Nibbana we have to keep in mind three primary circumstances

One who has delusion [non-arahant] prior to entering and emerges with delusion [non-arahant]
One who has delusion [non-arahant] prior to entering and emerges without delusion [arahant]
One who has no delusion prior to entering and emerges likewise.

All three absorbtions occur based on nibbananirodhadhatu which is empty of GAD but are going to be spoken about very differently.
Eg we don't say that an arahant is destroying taints because he has none prior to entering and we don't say that a person who emerged from cessation of perception & feeling without removing all taints is one who has attained removal of taints in the sense of attaining arahantship.
There is a bit more to it but it's close. For full analysis one also needs to delineate differences between 'nibbana with residue', '..without residue/fuel', 'parinibbana' and 'unprovoked release'.

user43: 
Buddha says Nibbana is ajātaṃ abhūtaṃ akataṃ asaṅkhataṃ.

Nibbana is "not born by separating from something, not a result of something prior developing or transforming into it, not made via a deed, not a result of multiple things coming together." - would be a better translation.
These four are meant to exhaust all kinds of coming into existence. Whatever comes into existence will perish and Nibbana must not perish so it must not come into existence. In other words it must be self-existent or self-present, as in the famous allegory of the Sun always shining even if your view is obstructed by the clouds.

and by the way what is real meaning of asaṅkhataṃ?

Asankhatam is the last of the four points, "not a result of multiple things coming together."
It means that Nibbana cannot be a state because any state is an arrangement of certain elements and conditions that must stay within certain bounds - which makes it vulnerable. Nibbana is unbounded, with no limits - therefore not vulnerable, indestructible, not subject to cessation. Nibbana is not a state - it's a dhatu, a layer of reality. Buddha calls it amata-dhatu, The Immortal Layer.
This "layer" concept explains why sankhatam things don't suddenly disappear when you attain Nibbana - they remain abiding as overlayed conventions, like the boundaries between countries, or the boundaries between separate families or the invisible "boundary" around one's private property, or the notion of separate "I" as "a lifetime of an individual" - indeed all these notions have emerged for a reason and do play a role in society, but for "the one like this" they are no longer absolutely real. Being not real they are not subject to attachment or aversion. Not being subject to attachment or aversion they cannot be a source of suffering.
This is how you "achieve the asankhatam", by elevating your mind above all kinds of boundaries and identities.

the countries don't really exist. There is no "my country" or "my people" vs aliens.
the families don't really exist. There is no "my family" or "my relatives" vs strangers.
the concept of ownership is ultimately a fiction. Do not consider anything as your possession.
the concept of "I" as a separate finite entity is also a fiction.

Buddha said "Greed, aversion, and delusion are makers of boundaries" - and it actually works both ways. Boundaries instigate and sustain greed, aversion, and delusion - and these create and maintain boundaries.
As Nibbana does not have a beginning (nor the end), technically it's not "attained". It just sits in plain sight until you realize it was always here, so to speak. But practically speaking, you have to stop making boundaries to free yourself from greed, aversion, and delusion.

21208: <p>Buddha says Nibbana is <em>ajātaṃ</em> <em>abhūtaṃ</em> <em>akataṃ</em> <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em>. Out of all these four, only <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em> (unconditioned) is something that I have to achieve.</p>
<p>So can I say <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em> is Nibbana and vice versa?
and by the way what is real meaning of <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em>?</p>
<p>Buddha says its end of greed, aversion, and delusion... But I dont think ending of these three means ending of all past <em>sankhara</em>.. So, in the state of <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em> still lots of <em>sankhara</em> are there. It's just that they are infertile.</p>
<p>So unconditioned is not right meaning of <em>asaṅkhataṃ</em> ... Ideally, it should be unconditionable?  What do you say?</p>
 -1: <p>This how i understand it,</p>
<p>The designation for Nibbana is 'removal of greed, anger &amp; delusion.' It has a variety of qualified usage.</p>
<p>We say that the attainment of Arahantship is a removal and that an Arahant is one who has removed from the mind. The mind of an Arahant is inherently conditioned, is a sankhara but it has no greed, anger &amp; delusion. We say that the attainment of Arahantship is an attainment of Nibbana in this sense of removal.</p>
<p>It is said that removal depends on destruction and that these unwholesome qualities utterly cease in one who practices the signless release or the four types of mindfulness as satipatthana leads to the signless release.</p>
<p>The signless release is an entering into &amp; emerging from a meditative attainment of the 'cessation of perception &amp; feeling'. It is also apprehended as emptiness or undirected, depending on how it was approached and what meditative theme was dominant in course of development.</p>
<p>This attainment is a direct seeing with the dhamma eye, one is then absorbed based on this nibbananirodhadhatu [extinguishment-cessation-principle] and it is said that this sorrowless [asoka] state is empty of greed, anger &amp; delusion.</p>
<p>It is said that greed, anger &amp; delusion are a making of signs.
Therefore this attainment of signless release qualifies to be called a removal of greed, anger &amp; delusion and a destruction because it is empty of those qualities and because these eventually utterly cease in who practices it.</p>
<p>When talking about the cessation of perception &amp; feeling one could say 'it's the foremost extreme pleasure' and in regards to that one could say Nibbana is that foremost pleasure where nothing is felt.</p>
<p>In this sense one would say Nibbana [removal of greed, anger &amp; delusion] is pleasant and have it refer to the Asankhata element which is Asoka [sorrowless].</p>
<p>When studying the words Deathless and Nibbana we have to keep in mind three primary circumstances</p>
<ol>
<li>One who has delusion [non-arahant] prior to entering and emerges with delusion [non-arahant]</li>
<li>One who has delusion [non-arahant] prior to entering and emerges without delusion [arahant]</li>
<li>One who has no delusion prior to entering and emerges likewise.</li>
</ol>
<p>All three absorbtions occur based on nibbananirodhadhatu which is empty of GAD but are going to be spoken about very differently.
Eg we don't say that an arahant is destroying taints because he has none prior to entering and we don't say that a person who emerged from cessation of perception &amp; feeling without removing all taints is one who has attained removal of taints in the sense of attaining arahantship.</p>
<p>There is a bit more to it but it's close. For full analysis one also needs to delineate differences between 'nibbana with residue', '..without residue/fuel', 'parinibbana' and 'unprovoked release'.</p>
 43: <blockquote>
<p>Buddha says Nibbana is ajātaṃ abhūtaṃ akataṃ asaṅkhataṃ.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Nibbana is &quot;not born by separating from something, not a result of something prior developing or transforming into it, not made via a deed, <strong>not a result of multiple things coming together.</strong>&quot; - would be a better translation.</p>
<p>These four are meant to exhaust all kinds of coming into existence. Whatever comes into existence will perish and Nibbana must not perish so it must not come into existence. In other words it must be self-existent or self-present, as in the famous allegory of the Sun always shining even if your view is obstructed by the clouds.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>and by the way what is real meaning of asaṅkhataṃ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Asankhatam is the last of the four points, &quot;not a result of multiple things coming together.&quot;</p>
<p>It means that Nibbana cannot be <em>a state</em> because any state is an arrangement of certain elements and conditions that must stay within certain bounds - which makes it vulnerable. Nibbana is unbounded, with no limits - therefore not vulnerable, indestructible, not subject to cessation. Nibbana is not a state - it's a dhatu, a layer of reality. Buddha calls it amata-dhatu, The Immortal Layer.</p>
<p>This &quot;layer&quot; concept explains why sankhatam things don't suddenly disappear when you attain Nibbana - they remain abiding as overlayed conventions, like the boundaries between countries, or the boundaries between separate families or the invisible &quot;boundary&quot; around one's private property, or the notion of separate &quot;I&quot; as &quot;a lifetime of an individual&quot; - indeed all these notions have emerged for a reason and do play a role in society, but for &quot;the one like this&quot; they are no longer absolutely real. Being not real they are not subject to attachment or aversion. Not being subject to attachment or aversion they cannot be a source of suffering.</p>
<p><strong>This is how you &quot;achieve the asankhatam&quot;, by elevating your mind above all kinds of boundaries and identities.</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>the countries don't really exist. There is no &quot;my country&quot; or &quot;my people&quot; vs aliens.</li>
<li>the families don't really exist. There is no &quot;my family&quot; or &quot;my relatives&quot; vs strangers.</li>
<li>the concept of ownership is ultimately a fiction. Do not consider anything as your possession.</li>
<li>the concept of &quot;I&quot; as a separate finite entity is also a fiction.</li>
</ul>
<p>Buddha said &quot;Greed, aversion, and delusion are makers of boundaries&quot; - and it actually works both ways. Boundaries instigate and sustain greed, aversion, and delusion - and these create and maintain boundaries.</p>
<p>As Nibbana does not have a beginning (nor the end), technically it's not &quot;attained&quot;. It just sits in plain sight until you realize it was always here, so to speak. But practically speaking, you have to stop making boundaries to free yourself from greed, aversion, and delusion.</p>
