user5049: If one of the goals to becoming enlightened is to lose all craving, desire or Tanha how is one to do that without the craving, desire or tanha to do just that. In other words, is wanting to eradicate all craving and desires a craving or desire itself?

user4727: I agree with enenalan.
i dont remember from what sutta.  it was something like, when one wants to be somewhere,  The desire to get there is ceased once you have reached your destination.  
Interestingly, in Buddha's first sermon, one of the causes of suffering (or stress -dhukka) is  "craving for non-becoming or vibhava-tanha"  .  
in all pali cannons, Buddha mentioned  "craving for non-becoming"  only once in his 40+ years of teaching.  this, i suspect,  is the last cause for suffering one has to abandon to become enlightened.   Those who reached this point is called anagami.  
Please let me know if anyone ever heard " craving for non-becoming  or vibhava tanha"  mentioned in any other sutta besides the Dhammacakkappavattana. I would greatly appreciate it.  

user254: As dean mentioned, there is a sutta which seems to match your question.
In the Brahmana Sutta: To Unnabha the Brahman, Venerable Ananda says,

"Brahman, there is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications of exertion. He develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on persistence... concentration founded on intent... concentration founded on discrimination & the fabrications of exertion. This, Brahman, is the path, this is the practice for the abandoning of that desire."

I guess that "founded on desire" might refer to what is called "Right intention" or "right aspiration" or "the exertion of our own will to change"; although it (i.e. the second of the eightfold path) is also translated as 'Right Resolve'.
Also, "fabrications of exertion" is Right effort, etc.
Given that explanation, the Brahman says that seems like a contradiction,

"If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire."

According to the Sutta the answer is that the 'desire' ends when the goal is reached,

"In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as
you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire,
thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park,
wasn't that particular desire allayed?"
"Yes, sir."
"Didn't you first have persistence, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,'
and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular persistence
allayed?"
"Yes, sir."
"Didn't you first have the intent, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,'
and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular intent
allayed?"
"Yes, sir."
"Didn't you first have [an act of] discrimination, thinking, 'I'll go
to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that
particular act of discrimination allayed?"
"Yes, sir."
"So it is with an arahant whose mental effluents are ended, who has
reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the
true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is
released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an
endless path, or one with an end?"
"You're right, Master Ananda. This is a path with an end, and not an
endless one.

The "path with an end" is I think a reference to the 3rd noble truth, and to nirvana or arahantship as an escape from samsara.

Also, Taṇhā is desire (or thirst) but not all desire is Taṇhā.
Wikipedia's Contrast to wholesome desire (chanda) says,

The Buddhist teachings contrast the reflexive, self-centered desire of taṇhā with wholesome types of desire, such as the desire to benefit others or the desire to follow the Buddhist path.[c] Wholesome types of desire are traditionally identified as chanda.[20][21][d]
Ajahn Sucitto states:

Sometimes taṇhā is translated as “desire,” but that gives rise to some crucial misinterpretations with reference to the way of Liberation. As we shall see, some form of desire is essential in order to aspire to, and persist in, cultivating the path out of dukkha. Desire as an eagerness to offer, to commit, to apply oneself to meditation, is called chanda. It’s a psychological “yes,” a choice, not a pathology. In fact, you could summarize Dhamma training as the transformation of taṇhā into chanda. It’s a process whereby we guide volition, grab and hold on to the steering wheel, and travel with clarity toward our deeper well-being. So we’re not trying to get rid of desire (which would take another kind of desire, wouldn’t it). Instead, we are trying to transmute it, take it out of the shadow of gratification and need, and use its aspiration and vigor to bring us into light and clarity.[20]



user-1: This is a very common misreading of the four noble truths.  Don't feel bad; you've got a lot of company!  The Buddha never actually said that all craving is bad.  In the 2nd noble truth, he is very specific about the kind of craving his path seeks to eradicate.

And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the
craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion &
delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual
pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.
from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

The third noble truth is the extinction of that kind of craving -

And this, monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of stress: the
remainderless fading & cessation, renunciation, relinquishment,
release, & letting go of that very craving.
from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

The desire that truly seeks liberation is not the same mind that craves for sensual pleasure, becoming, or not becoming.  Sure, there are people who begin practice because they believe that enlightenment will add something to their personality - as if nirvana will bring about something they are otherwise lacking.  Perhaps they crave for the pleasure of meditative absorption or believe that the wisdom that the path generates will give them a sense of personal power.  Perhaps they believe that the Buddhist path will lead to some sort of Schopenhauer paradise of pure nothingness.  Those lesser desires  for liberation need to be given up if one is to proceed past a certain point.  But the desire to put a final end to suffering?  If it's pure, there's nothing wrong with that.

5049: <p>If one of the goals to becoming enlightened is to lose all craving, desire or Tanha how is one to do that without the craving, desire or tanha to do just that. In other words, is wanting to eradicate all craving and desires a craving or desire itself?</p>
 4727: <p>I agree with enenalan.</p>

<p>i dont remember from what sutta.  it was something like, when one wants to be somewhere,  The desire to get there is ceased once you have reached your destination.  </p>

<p>Interestingly, in Buddha's first sermon, one of the causes of suffering (or stress -dhukka) is  "craving for non-becoming or vibhava-tanha"  .  </p>

<p>in all pali cannons, Buddha mentioned  "craving for non-becoming"  only once in his 40+ years of teaching.  this, i suspect,  is the last cause for suffering one has to abandon to become enlightened.   Those who reached this point is called anagami.  </p>

<p>Please let me know if anyone ever heard " craving for non-becoming  or vibhava tanha"  mentioned in any other sutta besides the Dhammacakkappavattana. I would greatly appreciate it.  </p>
 254: <p>As dean mentioned, there is a sutta which seems to match your question.</p>
<p>In the <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn51/sn51.015.than.html" rel="noreferrer">Brahmana Sutta: To Unnabha the Brahman</a>, Venerable Ananda says,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;Brahman, there is the case where a monk develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on desire &amp; the fabrications of exertion. He develops the base of power endowed with concentration founded on persistence... concentration founded on intent... concentration founded on discrimination &amp; the fabrications of exertion. This, Brahman, is the path, this is the practice for the abandoning of that desire.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess that &quot;founded on desire&quot; might refer to what is called &quot;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path#Right_intention" rel="noreferrer">Right intention</a>&quot; or &quot;right aspiration&quot; or &quot;the exertion of our own will to change&quot;; although it (i.e. the second of the eightfold path) is also translated as '<a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-sankappo/index.html" rel="noreferrer">Right Resolve</a>'.</p>
<p>Also, &quot;fabrications of exertion&quot; is Right effort, etc.</p>
<p>Given that explanation, the Brahman says that seems like a contradiction,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>According to the Sutta the answer is that the 'desire' ends when the goal is reached,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as
you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire,
thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park,
wasn't that particular desire allayed?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Yes, sir.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Didn't you first have persistence, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,'
and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular persistence
allayed?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Yes, sir.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Didn't you first have the intent, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,'
and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular intent
allayed?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Yes, sir.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Didn't you first have [an act of] discrimination, thinking, 'I'll go
to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that
particular act of discrimination allayed?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Yes, sir.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;So it is with an arahant whose mental effluents are ended, who has
reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the
true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is
released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the
attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular
discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an
endless path, or one with an end?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;You're right, Master Ananda. This is a path with an end, and not an
endless one.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The &quot;path with an end&quot; is I think a reference to the 3rd noble truth, and to nirvana or arahantship as an escape from samsara.</p>
<hr />
<p>Also, <em>Taṇhā</em> is desire (or thirst) but not all desire is Taṇhā.</p>
<p>Wikipedia's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%E1%B9%87h%C4%81#Contrast_to_wholesome_desire_.28chanda.29" rel="noreferrer">Contrast to wholesome desire (chanda)</a> says,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The Buddhist teachings contrast the reflexive, self-centered desire of taṇhā with wholesome types of desire, such as the desire to benefit others or the desire to follow the Buddhist path.[c] Wholesome types of desire are traditionally identified as chanda.[20][21][d]</p>
<p>Ajahn Sucitto states:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Sometimes taṇhā is translated as “desire,” but that gives rise to some crucial misinterpretations with reference to the way of Liberation. As we shall see, some form of desire is essential in order to aspire to, and persist in, cultivating the path out of dukkha. Desire as an eagerness to offer, to commit, to apply oneself to meditation, is called chanda. It’s a psychological “yes,” a choice, not a pathology. In fact, you could summarize Dhamma training as the transformation of taṇhā into chanda. It’s a process whereby we guide volition, grab and hold on to the steering wheel, and travel with clarity toward our deeper well-being. So we’re not trying to get rid of desire (which would take another kind of desire, wouldn’t it). Instead, we are trying to transmute it, take it out of the shadow of gratification and need, and use its aspiration and vigor to bring us into light and clarity.[20]</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
 -1: <p>This is a very common misreading of the four noble truths.  Don't feel bad; you've got a lot of company!  The Buddha never actually said that all craving is bad.  In the 2nd noble truth, he is very specific about the kind of craving his path seeks to eradicate.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the
craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion &amp;
delight, relishing now here &amp; now there — i.e., craving for sensual
pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.</p>
<p>from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The third noble truth is the extinction of that kind of craving -</p>
<blockquote>
<p>And this, monks, is the noble truth of the cessation of stress: the
remainderless fading &amp; cessation, renunciation, relinquishment,
release, &amp; letting go of that very craving.</p>
<p>from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The desire that truly seeks liberation is not the same mind that craves for sensual pleasure, becoming, or not becoming.  Sure, there are people who begin practice because they believe that enlightenment will add something to their personality - as if nirvana will bring about something they are otherwise lacking.  Perhaps they crave for the pleasure of meditative absorption or believe that the wisdom that the path generates will give them a sense of personal power.  Perhaps they believe that the Buddhist path will lead to some sort of Schopenhauer paradise of pure nothingness.  Those lesser desires  for liberation need to be given up if one is to proceed past a certain point.  But the desire to put a final end to suffering?  If it's pure, there's nothing wrong with that.</p>
