user471: Is kasina meditation and other such meditation techniques not found in the suttas (i.e. not taught by the Buddha) and only invented in the Visuddhimagga?
Or does it have basis in the Pali suttas?

user10100: I'm a thai and my english is very basic.
I found this in wikipedia, and it looks like a slander because they put the less reference, and miss the point. Many bias point the reader out of the reference. Everyone can show up their opinions, and we should listen to them respectfully, but it doesn't mean "proper" when they show up their opinions by cutting many evident of the analysis like this. I don't want to fight, I don't want to blame or slander. I really love and support, as proper, every kind of Buddhist people, even they are not in Theravata, however I still  have to do my job, describe the truth from the original text. I just want to let people see the other angles they never see by the reference from the original text from the history, not only the opinion. I do not just write but I will let you see how much reference that the below text didn't mention to.
Note, some original pali text were quoted and referenced in the referenced articles for the easier to read and many time reference.

Spiritual practice and progress
The most influential presentation of the Theravāda Abhidhamma path to liberation is found in the Visuddhimagga ('Path of Purification') of Buddhaghoṣa.[122]

No direct rule in Vinaya force the monk to recite & memorize Visuddhimagga. The rule start from 'Bikkhu have to recite & memorize Vinaya and Sutta from the previous Tipitaka Memorizer who enlightened or at lease the previous Tipitaka Memorizer who shy and fear (aware) of unwholesome' (1st ref, 2nd ref).

The Visuddhimagga's doctrine includes several interpretations not found in the earliest discourses (suttas).


The core of entire Visuddhimagga based on KN Patisambhidamagga.
KN Patisambhidamagga is from Sariputta's school.
Sariputta is the one who Buddha announced in AN "the only one
who can run , teach, the dhamma wheel like the buddha".
Sariputta often was taken the chances for teaching instead of the
Buddha in some situation.
Sariputta is the one who Ananda and every leader in 1st buddhist
council often go to study Dhamma with him.
Sariputta's students are the leader of 1st buddhist council who the
1st council member ordered them to keep recite and memorize the
whole MN.
All 1st council members can recite and memorize at least 1 Nikaya
because the rule in the earliest discourses, Vinaya and Sutta, is
reciting and memorizing Sutta and Vinaya after enlightenment (1st ref, 2nd ref).


The text uses meditation on kasina (colored disks) as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana. Kasina a kind of focusing meditation which is not widely found in the earlier suttas.

Hundreds of results (the link is lesser than the real reference) of "kasiṇa" words found in Sutta.
Kasiṇa is not described in detail in Sutta, appeared only words, because it is easy and the outsider practitioners already found this method before the Buddha appeared, no need teaching. The 3 jatila also meditate Tejo Kasina and they are the great teachers in Kasina before the Buddha appear. Anapanassati is easier but it is not found before the Buddha teach it (1st ref, 2nd ref). That's why even many words of Kasiṇa found in Sutta, but we can't found the explanation like we found many Anapanassati's detail in Sutta.
No detail doesn't mean "Kasiṇa is not widely found in the earlier suttas", it means "Kasiṇa is usually used before the Sutta, so nothing to describe".
According to OvadaPatimokha, all wholesome should be meditated. Kasina can let the practitioner get wholesome Jhana, so we should meditate Kasina as same as other wholesome meditation as well.
Meditate all Kammatthana as much as you can, to auto select the proper Kammatthana in the proper situation every time you should. Who never practice Asubha is who can't recall of Asubha when seeing the beautiful man/woman.

**The text uses meditation on kasina (colored disks) as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana. **Kasina a kind of focusing meditation which is not widely found in the earlier suttas.

Visuddhimagga doesn't use meditation on only kasina  as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana.
Visuddhimagga firstly declared 30 methods  as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana before describe them in detail as each big chapter.

The Visuddhimagga also describes the four jhanas and the four immaterial states in detail. It also describes forty meditation subjects (kammaṭṭhāna) and advises that one should ask a knowledgeable person to figure out which meditation suits one's temperament.[125]

Kasina is just the first chapter of Kammathana in Visuddhimagga, not the key. However, the oral tradition is the rule, vinaya, of the core study in theravada. And the oral study is using too much time to keep it, so the way to study faster is briefing same content into the first reciting chapter one and refer every same content into it. And that's why Kasina chapter is too big. Every kammathana's chapter after that often request many part of Kasina chapter to complete the content. And Anapanassati is the bigger chapter than Kasina after included the refering content of Kasina chapter in to it.
I think it is waste the time to explain how the tipitaka pali memorizers memorize the whole pali canon to the one who never try to do the same because it's too much advance for them. I just want to help them know whether what they never try maybe their big mistake of their lives. At least I will remember whether I try to protect them from a hardcore karma "blaming the noble one" (Ariyupavada).

The Visuddhimagga analyzes the practice of the Buddhist path as divided into three main aspects: Sīla (ethics or discipline); 2) Samādhi (concentration achieved through meditation); 3) Pañña (spiritual understanding, wisdom).

It is from SamyuttaNikaya and DighaNikaya, kelp by Ananda, not from Visuddhimagga. The buddha and his followers often teach their sutta as 3 part, 3 sikkha, in DN SilakhandhaVagga.

It also gives a more extended overview of the path to liberation, which is divided into seven major stages which are called the "Seven Stages of Purification" (satta-visuddhi).[126] These stages are based on the Rathavinita Sutta ("Relay Chariots Discourse," MN 24).[127]

It is based on DN and KN Patisambhidamagga. It is not pure BuddhaGhosa's opinion.

The section on wisdom also provides an indepth overview of the process of vipassanā ("insight", "clear-seeing") meditation, and its progressive stages or "progress of insight" (visuddhiñana-katha). This progress is explained through a total of sixteen stages of insight or knowledge, called the vipassanā-ñāṇas.[128]

It is based on DN and KN Patisambhidamagga. It is not pure BuddhaGhosa's opinion.
Or who can help me insert these evident into Wikipedia please.

user21512: Yes the ten kasina mediations are in The Middle-length Suttas (Book 2, Chapter 3, Sutta 7 “Great Sakuludayi Sutta”), and I have heard they are other places, but havent come across those.

“Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop
the ten kasiṇa bases. One contemplates the earthkasiṇa above, below,
and across, undivided and immeasurable. Another contemplates the
water-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the fire-kasiṇa…Another contemplates
the air-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the blue-kasiṇa…Another
contemplates the yellow-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the
red-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the white-kasiṇa…Another contemplates
the space-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the consciousness-kasiṇa above,
below, and across, undivided and immeasurable. And thereby many
disciples of mine abide having reached the perfection and consummation
of direct knowledge.
MN 77


471: <p>Is kasina meditation and other such meditation techniques not found in the suttas (i.e. not taught by the Buddha) and only invented in the Visuddhimagga?</p>
<p>Or does it have basis in the Pali suttas?</p>
 10100: <p>I'm a thai and my english is very basic.</p>
<p>I found <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therav%C4%81da_Abhidhamma#Spiritual_practice_and_progress" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this in wikipedia</a>, and it looks like a slander because they put the less reference, and miss the point. Many bias point the reader out of the reference. Everyone can show up their opinions, and we should listen to them respectfully, but it doesn't mean &quot;proper&quot; when they show up their opinions by cutting many evident of the analysis like this. I don't want to fight, I don't want to blame or slander. I really love and support, as proper, every kind of Buddhist people, even they are not in Theravata, however I still  have to do my job, describe the truth from the original text. I just want to let people see the other angles they never see by the reference from the original text from the history, not only the opinion. <strong>I do not just write but I will let you see how much reference that the below text didn't mention to.</strong></p>
<p>Note, some original pali text were quoted and referenced in the referenced articles for the easier to read and many time reference.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Spiritual practice and progress</p>
<p>The most influential presentation of the Theravāda Abhidhamma path to liberation is found in the Visuddhimagga ('Path of Purification') of Buddhaghoṣa.[122]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No direct rule in Vinaya force the monk to recite &amp; memorize Visuddhimagga. The rule start from 'Bikkhu have to recite &amp; memorize Vinaya and Sutta from the previous Tipitaka Memorizer who enlightened or at lease the previous Tipitaka Memorizer who shy and fear (aware) of unwholesome' (<a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/english/metta.lk/04i001-e.php#topic25" rel="nofollow noreferrer">1st ref</a>, <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2020/07/oral-tradition-in-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2nd ref</a>).</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The Visuddhimagga's doctrine includes several interpretations not found in the earliest discourses (suttas).</p>
</blockquote>
<ol>
<li>The core of entire Visuddhimagga based on <a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_read.php?B=31&amp;A=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">KN Patisambhidamagga</a>.</li>
<li>KN Patisambhidamagga is from <a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/atthapali/read_rm.php?B=47&amp;A=1&amp;h=s%C4%81riputta%E1%B9%83" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sariputta's school</a>.</li>
<li>Sariputta is the one who Buddha <a href="https://thaipitaka.gitlab.io/engtipitaka/metta.lk/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara1/1-ekanipata/013-Ekapuggalavaggo-e.html?h=S%C4%81riputta:proclaimed%20by%20me#hl" rel="nofollow noreferrer">announced in AN</a> &quot;the only one
who can run , teach, the dhamma wheel like the buddha&quot;.</li>
<li>Sariputta often was taken the chances for <a href="https://suttacentral.net/dn33/en/sujato" rel="nofollow noreferrer">teaching instead of the
Buddha</a> in some situation.</li>
<li>Sariputta is the one who Ananda and <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2020/07/oral-tradition-in-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">every leader in 1st buddhist
council</a> often <a href="https://suttacentral.net/mn32/en/sujato" rel="nofollow noreferrer">go to study Dhamma with him</a>.</li>
<li>Sariputta's students are the leader of 1st buddhist council who <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2020/07/oral-tradition-in-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the
1st council member ordered them to keep recite and memorize the
whole MN</a>.</li>
<li>All 1st council members can recite and memorize <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2020/07/oral-tradition-in-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">at least 1 Nikaya</a>
because the rule in the earliest discourses, Vinaya and Sutta, is
reciting and memorizing Sutta and Vinaya after enlightenment (<a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/english/metta.lk/04i001-e.php#topic25" rel="nofollow noreferrer">1st ref</a>, <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2020/07/oral-tradition-in-commentary.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2nd ref</a>).</li>
</ol>
<blockquote>
<p>The text uses meditation on kasina (colored disks) as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana. <strong>Kasina a kind of focusing meditation which is not widely found in the earlier suttas.</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/pitaka_item/roman_seek.php?text=kasi%26%237751%3B&amp;modeTY=1&amp;book=1&amp;bookZ=45" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Hundreds of results</a> (the link is lesser than the real reference) of &quot;kasiṇa&quot; words found in Sutta.</p>
<p>Kasiṇa is not described in detail in Sutta, appeared only words, because it is easy and the outsider practitioners already found this method before the Buddha appeared, no need teaching. The <a href="https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd1/en/horner-brahmali#Kd.1.14.6" rel="nofollow noreferrer">3 jatila</a> also meditate Tejo Kasina and they are the great teachers in Kasina before the Buddha appear. Anapanassati is easier but it is not found before the Buddha teach it (<a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_read.php?B=19&amp;A=8032&amp;modeTY=2&amp;h=anapanassati#hl" rel="nofollow noreferrer">1st ref</a>, <a href="https://5000y.men/?rm.r.150.232...a%C3%B1%C3%B1atra%20buddhupp%C4%81d%C4%81%20appavattapubba%E1%B9%83%20sabbatitthiy%C4%81na%E1%B9%83#hl" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2nd ref</a>). That's why even many words of Kasiṇa found in Sutta, but we can't found the explanation like we found many Anapanassati's detail in Sutta.</p>
<p>No detail doesn't mean &quot;Kasiṇa is not widely found in the earlier suttas&quot;, it means &quot;Kasiṇa is usually used before the Sutta, so nothing to describe&quot;.</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/dp14.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer">OvadaPatimokha</a>, all wholesome should be meditated. Kasina can let the practitioner get wholesome Jhana, so we should meditate Kasina as same as other wholesome meditation as well.</p>
<p><strong>Meditate all Kammatthana as much as you can, to auto select the proper Kammatthana in the proper situation every time you should. Who never practice Asubha is who can't recall of Asubha when seeing the beautiful man/woman.</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p>**The text uses meditation on kasina (colored disks) as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana. **Kasina a kind of focusing meditation which is not widely found in the earlier suttas.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Visuddhimagga doesn't use meditation on <strong>only</strong> kasina  as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana.</p>
<p>Visuddhimagga <a href="https://thepathofpurification.blogspot.com/2010/05/visuddhimagga-iii-107.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">firstly declared 30 methods  as the key practice from which it models the entrance into jhana</a> before describe them in detail as each big chapter.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The Visuddhimagga also describes the four jhanas and the four immaterial states in detail. It also describes forty meditation subjects (kammaṭṭhāna) and advises that one should ask a knowledgeable person to figure out which meditation suits one's temperament.[125]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Kasina is just the first chapter of Kammathana in Visuddhimagga, not the key. However, the oral tradition is the rule, vinaya, of the core study in theravada. And the oral study is using too much time to keep it, so the way to study faster is briefing same content into the first reciting chapter one and <a href="https://thepathofpurification.blogspot.com/search?q=vuttanayena" rel="nofollow noreferrer">refer every same content into it.</a> <strong>And that's why Kasina chapter is too big</strong>. Every kammathana's chapter after that often request many part of Kasina chapter to complete the content. <strong>And Anapanassati is the bigger chapter than Kasina after included the refering content of Kasina chapter in to it.</strong></p>
<p>I think it is waste the time to explain how the tipitaka pali memorizers memorize the whole pali canon to the one who never try to do the same because it's too much advance for them. I just want to help them know whether what they never try maybe their big mistake of their lives. <strong>At least I will remember whether I try to protect them from a hardcore karma &quot;blaming the noble one&quot; (Ariyupavada).</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p>The Visuddhimagga analyzes the practice of the Buddhist path as divided into three main aspects: Sīla (ethics or discipline); 2) Samādhi (concentration achieved through meditation); 3) Pañña (spiritual understanding, wisdom).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is from SamyuttaNikaya and <a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_read.php?B=09&amp;A=1199&amp;eng=accesstoinsight_than" rel="nofollow noreferrer">DighaNikaya</a>, kelp by Ananda, not from Visuddhimagga. The buddha and his <a href="https://suttacentral.net/dn10/en/sujato" rel="nofollow noreferrer">followers</a> often teach their sutta as 3 part, 3 sikkha, in DN SilakhandhaVagga.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It also gives a more extended overview of the path to liberation, which is divided into seven major stages which are called the &quot;Seven Stages of Purification&quot; (satta-visuddhi).[126] These stages are based on the Rathavinita Sutta (&quot;Relay Chariots Discourse,&quot; MN 24).[127]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is based on DN and KN <a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_read.php?B=31&amp;A=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Patisambhidamagga</a>. It is not pure BuddhaGhosa's opinion.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The section on wisdom also provides an indepth overview of the process of vipassanā (&quot;insight&quot;, &quot;clear-seeing&quot;) meditation, and its progressive stages or &quot;progress of insight&quot; (visuddhiñana-katha). This progress is explained through a total of sixteen stages of insight or knowledge, called the vipassanā-ñāṇas.[128]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is based on DN and KN <a href="https://84000.org/tipitaka/read/roman_read.php?B=31&amp;A=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Patisambhidamagga</a>. It is not pure BuddhaGhosa's opinion.</p>
<p><strong>Or who can help me insert these evident into Wikipedia please.</strong></p>
 21512: <p>Yes the ten kasina mediations are in The Middle-length Suttas (Book 2, Chapter 3, Sutta 7 “Great Sakuludayi Sutta”), and I have heard they are other places, but havent come across those.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>“Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop
the ten kasiṇa bases. One contemplates the earthkasiṇa above, below,
and across, undivided and immeasurable. Another contemplates the
water-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the fire-kasiṇa…Another contemplates
the air-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the blue-kasiṇa…Another
contemplates the yellow-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the
red-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the white-kasiṇa…Another contemplates
the space-kasiṇa…Another contemplates the consciousness-kasiṇa above,
below, and across, undivided and immeasurable. And thereby many
disciples of mine abide having reached the perfection and consummation
of direct knowledge.<br />
<a href="https://suttacentral.net/mn77/en/bodhi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">MN 77</a></p>
</blockquote>
