user16756: I hope someone could help me clarify something about dependent origination, is Kamma the driving force behind dependent origination ?

user254: I think there may be two relationships:

DO is a detailed description or analysis of kamma
Kamma is one small component or link in the DO chain


Firstly people see "kamma" is a big cycle, birth and death and rebirth and so on -- I think that DO is detailed analysis or description of how that works.
For example you look at kamma and say, "that's kamma", like you might look at a car and say, "that's a car". A more-detailed analysis says that a "car" is "wheels, an engine, doors, fuel, a driver, a road" and so on.
Similarly an analysis of "kamma" might say that it's "ignorance, formations" and so on.
One thing to note about DO is that it doesn't presuppose a self, it's not a self-doctrine, it allows you say e.g. "craving exists" without saying also "there's a 'self' which is doing the craving, the 'who' who is craving".
DO (and kamma) don't need to depend on a view that there's a permanent self.

Secondly I think that "kamma" might be one small component or link within DO.
The Nibbedhika Sutta (AN 6.63) includes something like:

"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play should be known. The diversity in kamma should be known. The result of kamma should be known. The cessation of kamma should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?
"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.
"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.
"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later [in this lifetime], and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.
"And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.
"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns kamma in this way, the cause by which kamma comes into play in this way, the diversity of kamma in this way, the result of kamma in this way, the cessation of kamma in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.
"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play... The diversity in kamma... The result of kamma... The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.

I think that its saying, "Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play", means that one or more of the links shortly after "contact" is "kamma, coming into play".
And saying that "kamma is intending" places it -- it's mindfulness-(or-not), it's guarding-the-senses-(or-not).
I'd say that kamma is a link within the cycle, like the steering wheel and accelerator pedal are links within a car.
If you want to identify a "driving force" perhaps that would "attachment". I think the Pali word for attachment -- Upādāna -- is also the word for "fuel" (i.e. like what causes or nourishes a fire to continue):

Upādāna is a Vedic Sanskrit and Pali word that means "fuel, material cause, substrate that is the source and means for keeping an active process energized". It is also an important Buddhist concept referring to "attachment, clinging, grasping".


16756: <p>I hope someone could help me clarify something about dependent origination, is Kamma the driving force behind dependent origination ?</p>
 254: <p>I think there may be two relationships:</p>
<ul>
<li>DO is a detailed description or analysis of kamma</li>
<li>Kamma is one small component or link in the DO chain</li>
</ul>
<hr />
<p>Firstly people see &quot;kamma&quot; is a big cycle, birth and death and rebirth and so on -- I think that DO is detailed analysis or description of how that works.</p>
<p>For example you look at kamma and say, &quot;that's kamma&quot;, like you might look at a car and say, &quot;that's a car&quot;. A more-detailed analysis says that a &quot;car&quot; is &quot;wheels, an engine, doors, fuel, a driver, a road&quot; and so on.</p>
<p>Similarly an analysis of &quot;kamma&quot; might say that it's &quot;ignorance, formations&quot; and so on.</p>
<p>One thing to note about DO is that it doesn't presuppose a self, it's not a self-doctrine, it allows you say e.g. &quot;craving exists&quot; without saying also &quot;there's a 'self' which is doing the craving, the 'who' who is craving&quot;.</p>
<p>DO (and kamma) don't need to depend on a view that there's a permanent self.</p>
<hr />
<p>Secondly I think that &quot;kamma&quot; might be one small component or link within DO.</p>
<p>The <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.063.than.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Nibbedhika Sutta (AN 6.63)</a> includes something like:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play should be known. The diversity in kamma should be known. The result of kamma should be known. The cessation of kamma should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?</p>
<p>&quot;Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, &amp; intellect.</p>
<p>&quot;And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.</p>
<p>&quot;And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.</p>
<p>&quot;And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here &amp; now, that which arises later [in this lifetime], and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.</p>
<p>&quot;And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.</p>
<p>&quot;Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns kamma in this way, the cause by which kamma comes into play in this way, the diversity of kamma in this way, the result of kamma in this way, the cessation of kamma in this way, &amp; the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.</p>
<p>&quot;'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play... The diversity in kamma... The result of kamma... The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that its saying, &quot;Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play&quot;, means that one or more of the links shortly after &quot;contact&quot; is &quot;kamma, coming into play&quot;.</p>
<p>And saying that &quot;kamma is intending&quot; places it -- it's mindfulness-(or-not), it's guarding-the-senses-(or-not).</p>
<p>I'd say that kamma is a link within the cycle, like the steering wheel and accelerator pedal are links within a car.</p>
<p>If you want to identify a &quot;driving force&quot; perhaps that would &quot;attachment&quot;. I think the Pali word for attachment -- <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up%C4%81d%C4%81na" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Upādāna</a> -- is also the word for &quot;fuel&quot; (i.e. like what causes or nourishes a fire to continue):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Upādāna is a Vedic Sanskrit and Pali word that means &quot;fuel, material cause, substrate that is the source and means for keeping an active process energized&quot;. It is also an important Buddhist concept referring to &quot;attachment, clinging, grasping&quot;.</p>
</blockquote>
