Carl Williams and his father were taken from jail to meet women, court hears Former police officer Paul Noel Dale (right) has pleaded not guilty to lying to the Australian Crime Commission about his relationship with Carl Williams. UNDERWORLD killer Carl Williams and his father George were taken from prison by authorities to a secret location where they each received a female visitor, a court heard. Detective Sergeant Sol Solomon confirmed the visits while being questioned by defence barrister Geoffrey Steward on the first day of the trial of Paul Noel Dale, a former police officer who has pleaded not guilty to lying to the Australian Crime Commission about his relationship with Carl Williams. Williams had given a statement to police investigating underworld murders when he and his father were taken to a secret location by police and members of the Special Operations Group at Christmas in 2008. "George was permitted a visit by his female partner," Sgt Solomon said. Carl was in a relationship with a young lady who was allowed to visit. Sgt Solomon said the couples were never left alone and never had complete privacy. Earlier, the court heard Mr Dale maintained "an ongoing secret relationship" with Williams, which included accepting money for information on police operations as well as secret meetings at swimming pools, shopping centres and a cafe. Prosecutor Christopher Beale, SC, accused Mr Dale of lying to the ACC when he claimed he had met Williams only three times and recorded each on the Victoria Police internal intelligence data base. "We say that the truth is he had an ongoing secret relationship, an off-the-record relationship, with Carl Williams," Mr Beale said. But Mr Steward described Williams as a "callous, conniving, deceitful, self-serving drug trafficker" and his father as a "drug trafficker and perjurer." He also accused the ACC of trying to "humiliate" Mr Dale by asking about sexual relationships he might have had with two colleagues. "The commission was embarking on a question that was personally embarrassing to him, and perhaps humiliating," Mr Steward said. The trial, before Justice Elizabeth Curtain, continues.