text:
Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it.
An official fix for slow Windows 7 update scan timesPosted on woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge
Home › Forums › AskWoody blog › An official fix for slow Windows 7 update scan times
Tagged: KB 3161608, KB3161647, Windows 7 slow updates
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- This topic has 146 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 10 months ago by James Lightfoot.
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Looks like it's working. This month, anyway. Or maybe it's just the latest whack-a-mole monthly mess-up. InfoWorld Woody on Windows. Got this n
[See the full post at: An official fix for slow Windows 7 update scan times]
Sorry woody. The KB3161647 update is not available as an individual update but it is part of the June 2016 update rollup for Win7 SP1 – KB3161608.
Not me-I updated the one fix posted on patch tuesday.
Does this fix permanently fix the slow windows updates we face every patch tuesday or do we gotta download a new patch every month?
Dave VGuest
That kb leads to June update rollup kb3161608.
Attempt to install to 7 x64 came back with a reply, not applicable to your computer.
Dave VGuest
Ran 3 times 7 ultimate sp1 x64
Same result each time
I'm a bit hesitant on this update as it's in the 'optional update' section of WU which is embedded in the June 2016 roll-up patch KB3161608.
Our Win7 64bit seems to run fine with KB3161664 so not needing this yet.
For the last several months, there have been a security patch per month that everyone claimed was a fix for the slow Windows Update scans. And the next month updates were back to long searches.
During the "Keep Windows 7/8" campaign (for those avoiding Windows 10 forced upgrade), I have been avoiding Windows Update Client "improvements" like the plague, hiding them as they appear each month since mid 2015. The reasoning behind that being that MS was using the "improvements," along with telemetry and compatibility updates, to grease the Windows 10 skids. And the presence of the updates didn't seem to make any difference in the scans for those who installed them.
KB3161647 June Windows Update Client for Windows 7 (and its sister KB3163023 for Windows 8) appear to be part of a June rollup. If I'm not mistaken that means the same thing it does in Windows 10 – you can't pick and choose, you get the whole thing.
IF (hold your breath) this whole avoidance routine is over on July 29th, and IF (hold your breath) MS starts charging for Windows 10, and IF (hold your breath) MS stops hijacking computers with unwanted upgrades, then I will go back and revisit all the Windows Update Client "improvements" (but not telemetry or compatibility) when it's over to see if the wait time improves. That's only a month away. I think I can bide my time 38 days longer. After all, "How long has this been going on!!"
Or I will die of asphyxiation….
If you install the June 2016 rollup.
I see no standalone installer for the fix.
It is a moot point if Microsoft is going to put a fix out every month for this issue. They need to to develop a long-term patch rather than duct-taping the problem each month. Unless this patch is one of those long term solutions…
ozbadcatAskWoody Plus
G'day Woody – I saw this on Wilders Security site : but obviously needs your approval as it has a different KB #
Long Update Scans for Windows 7 Addressed in Latest Windows Update Client Fix
Jun 21, 2016 Rod Trent
Over the past couple months, and even more recently in the last few weeks, I've seen more and more reports from those tasked with managing Windows 7 computers that update scans are taking an extraordinarily long time. And, I do mean a long, long time. Some of those reports claim the scan has taken longer than 24 hours.
Microsoft has addressed this issue in the June 2016 update rollup for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 (KB3161608).
This latest update includes a supposed fix for the long scan times, but also…
•A fix for a Windows Update error 0x8007000E on some computers while they are updating.
•Some reliability improvements
I tried it. It wiped out all my hidden updates and did not unstick Windows Update.
I did system restore. KB3161647 is no longer listed as installed, but my hidden updates did not return. These of course were all the Windows 7 Updates to change to Windoes 10 which I had hidden.
I have GWX Control Panel and I have update set to check but let me choose so I guess I am safe. I don't know what to do now.
I am back to where I was 6/12/2016 before the June patches arrived. However at this moment Windows says "there are no updates available for this computer."
I just did the restore so I guess it could still be looking.
"An optimization that addresses long scan time for updates that's reported on some computers."
The Masters of Understatement have spoken!
The above link to KB3161647 actually goes to KB3161608.
I wrote a comment about KB3161647 that I tried and the site said my comment was being monitored and then it disappeared and I don't know what I did wrong.
KB3161647 erased all my hidden updates and did not fix Windows Update for me.
Woody could you email me and tell me why my first comment about KB3161647 was not allowed?
Thank you.
Hey Woody,
Is this update from KB3161608? Because it says on the Microsoft website that it's from an update package of 5 updates, including KB3161647. Couldn't find it after installing KB3161608 when looking through the installed updates.
I moderate everything – sorry. I think your original post came through. If you have any problems or questions, though, you can always email me – click the link in the upper right corner….
Any idea why????
Well, I guess I have asked too late. Thanks for the update though.
I think now is just the waiting game until next month's patch update from Windows. I still have KB3161664 installed just in case
I want to know if this is a permanent fix as well because i'm not happy about blindly accepting all the other updates in the rollup if not.
May I ask a dumb question?
If the KB3161647 WU client patch is included as part of the KB3161608 June 2016 update rollup
and the KB3161647 patch is not available as an individual update why is my W7 SP1 machine not being offered the KB3161608 June 2016 update rollup in Windows Update?
No idea. Have you tried installing it manually.
Microsoft says it's permanent. You can take that with all the usual caveats.
"Have you tried installing it manually."
No. And that's because I have never downloaded and manually installed any updates for this W7 SP1 machine since I've owned it.
And, really, I'm not going to start now. If MSFT can't offer an update or a rollup through their own mechanism, Windows Update, then why would I trust that the update-rollup is beneficial?
The last auto check for updates happened this morning at 9:49AM, June 21, and there was no change in my number of available Important or Optional updates. Unless this rollup was released some time this afternoon (EST) I have the same available updates in my queue that were sent down the chute this past patch Tuesday. I guess I'll see what is offered tomorrow morning.
Woody: I do not have either of the updates which are being referenced in the above posts. These are KB3161647 and KB3161608.
Apparently I must wait until they show up, however since they are unavailable it is probably better to just wait and perhaps there will be another "fix" to assist with the lethargic update issue which continues to appear every month (since I can't remember when).
Any advice about this unusual situation? Thank you for the never-ending assistance you provide for us all. 🙂
KB3161608 fixes Windows update. I also learned to set WU to never check for updates and restart the computer first. Then install KB3161608. Then restart and check for updates. The June patches appear and KB3161647 is in the list. They downloaded and installed pretty quickly, probably 20 minutes, but I failed to time it and don't know for sure. (KB3161647 did not appear in update history or installed updates, I think because it was already in KB3161608)
This worked for me on my desktop, which is normally set to check for updates but allow me to choose whether to download and install them. I set WU back to that.
Then I started my laptop. It had not been turned on since 6/12/2016. The only updates between 5/24/2016 when the May patches were installed and 6/12/2016 were definition updates for MSE and a Microsoft Office Outlook 2007 junk mail update.
But when I went to see my hidden updates today they were all gone. I thought all my hidden updates were erased on my desktop today when I tried to install KB3161647, but they were also gone from my laptop that I had not used since 6/12/2016.
Something happened between 5/24/2016 and 6/12/2016 that caused all the hidden updates to disappear without warning. I thought they were still there after the 5/24/2016 May patches. But they may have been removed then. I don't know when it was done and it was done without my permission. Do you know anything about this?
Woody's reply:
If you previously hid updates, and they no longer appear as hidden, you have nothing to worry about!
Microsoft may have superseded them, or pulled them. If they don't appear on the Windows Update list, you don't need them….
I'll be tracking this down early in the morning. In the interim, if there are other comments, I'm very interested in hearing!
Not sure if this pertains to the discussion of KB3161608 but just now had it offered as an optional update…on win7 home x64
It absolutely pertains. MS officially released it on Tuesday. I guess it's just now rolling out.
After checking for updates this morning, June 22, 2016, I was not offered, do not have, either of the updates being referenced, KB3161647 and KB3161608.
My check for updates took less than 1 minute and I have KB3161664 installed since June 16, 2016…
Make sure servicing stack update KB3020369 is installed
it's a prerequisite
Got it. Thanks.
You wrote an InfoWorld article about problems with KB3020369 last year entitled:
"Microsoft fingers KB 3020369 as culprit in Stage 3 of 3 reboot hangs".
Because of the issues with the update I never installed KB3020369. As of this morning I have not yet received the optional KB3161608 update. I'm wondering if it's because I don't have KB3020369 installed, and if so how important are both KB3020369 & KB3161608/KB3161647 to my windows 7×64 installation?
I think KB3161664 is still effective on slow scans. I had insufferable slow scan times on W7/64 systems until I manually installed this scan. After a reboot the turn around was excellent.
Yesterday when host services rose exponentially on the systems I opened WU and the scan time was excellent. I chose to select all security updates but left 1608 in optional and unchecked. The download and install was a matter of minutes (instead of hours). The CPU usage returned to normal immediately after the important updates were installed.
If this continues with the next batch of updates, I will not install 1608. I think that will be a good test.
@Woody, @abbodi,
I found KB3020369 in my "hidden updates" list from back in May 2015. It was one of a couple of updates that you, Woody, had listed as problematic but then gave a "semi all clear" on…
"All of the May patches that appear to cause problems — KB 3020369, 3045171, 3057110 — have been fixed or nearly fixed. KB 3020369 can hang at "Stage 3 of 3" during reboot, but we've been reassured it isn't a problem, if you just pull the plug."
Based on the could hang at "stage 3 of 3", and not wanting to ask for trouble, I hid it and it remains hidden. Could not having KB 3020369 installed be the reason the KB3161608 June 2016 update rollup is not being offered? And are others not seeing the KB3161608 June 2016 update rollup caught in this prerequisite issue?
Highly likely. Trying to unravel it now.
I'm talking with my editor at InfoWorld about this very fact, at this very moment! Good timing…
I used this on my laptop last night, and this morning across about a dozen PCs I look after for friends. It's worked every time, and there's been no wiping of hidden updates in the process.
The slow scan times for Windows Update appears to have been targeted at lower end CPUs such as Celerons. It's not the first time Microsoft have employed this strategy, the XP updater suddenly slowed and overloaded the CPU for long periods when MS wanted to push Vista.
The bad thing is that the fix won't be seen by the many users who simply rely on automatic updates.
After reading the comments here, I'm beginning to think this is just one more "trick" MS is pulling to get Win10 on PCs.
If the rollup, or the Windows Update Client update included, wipes out the hidden updates protecting the PC from telemetry and compatibility checks (hiding has certainly protected my test machine), it is probably also greasing the skids for the forced upgrade.
I won't touch it with a 10 ft pole on the PCs trying to maintain Win7/8. See my earlier comments on this thread.
What I'm also seeing from the comments is just how much trust MS has lost from the everyday Users it no longer cares about.
The hiding of KB3020369 also prevents KB3042058 "Update to default cipher suite priority order: May 12, 2015", from being offered. That update seemed to have contained Winlogon Spying & possible ties to Windows 10, based on 2 separate AskWoody articles.
MS-DEFCON 4: Get Windows and Office patched, but watch out for Kylo Ren
Good catch.
I'm seeing slower scans on even recent PCs. Not sure why some are slacking and others are fine.
Yep, MS pulled the same stunt, er, executed the same save back in XP days. I talk about it in this article:
Tony HGuest
Woody – re your parting comment on InfoWorld: these ongoing WU delays don't only impede productivity, they wear out PCs. Single-core CPUs grind away at 100% CPU for hours, shortening their life and thrashing the fans. I've heard of at least one laptop having to be replaced because its fan died. Planned obsolescence gone mad?
Ditto here, I'm holding off on KB3161608 for now too.
I manually installed the KB3161664 patch on a system remotely earlier this morning (using my "tried & true" method) and after the restart the updates appeared within just a few minutes. I installed all of the available May updates that were safe in two sessions and everything went quite quickly.
It's nice getting this chore accomplished in an hour or so again as I remotely maintain a group of computers belonging to some elderly family members scattered all over the US!
Good point.
Be it this KB3161608 or any other available Windows Update patch, be it that I install them from Windows Update or run them manually, all patches fail, all, after reboot and when finishing the update arrives to 85-90% I am notified of the failure, system reboots and removes partial install. The error code is always 8007054F …
Here with Windows 7SP1 64-BIT I've tried all fix tools available :
1- Microsoft Windows Update Fixit 50123
2- Windows Update Diagnostic
3- System Update Readiness Tool
4- Windows Update Agent (re-installed, never know…)
Nothing does it. No new device here, same config as when Win Update was running smooth. I don't know what Microsoft went into but one thing is sure : having to avoid their Win10 upgrade patches has obviously led my machine's Windows Update features to a total mess.
I would have preferred to keep security updating but as it is now there's no point : all fails. I've spent hours & hours to find, to test, to reboot, hours. Fed up. Windows Update definitely closed, for the time being anyway.
I'm not sure there is any point in installing rollup updates if you're otherwise up-to-date – aren't these the updates that are designed merely to simplify re-installation of the OS? You have no knowledge or control over what is installed within the rollup, and given that for many users the speed of the update process is a huge variable irrespective of whether you install the "speed-up" updates or not it is difficult to say with any certainty whether those updates make any difference.
Some users say they do make a difference, others say they don't, and in my own case my two machines vary enormously from one day to another regardless of whether I install those updates or not.
While it's perfectly possible that KB3161647 is the one that will make a permanent difference, I have my doubts, and meanwhile you have to install it as part of a bigger update that isn't routinely offered to you. It'll be interesting to see how those who do install it fare over the coming weeks.
If you decide to re-visit the topic, I strongly suggest you post the symptoms on the Microsoft Answers forum.
True. My point was to expose in order to know if anyone else was sharing the issue. I do know that resolving such an issue may be found on dedicated websites, besides MS Answers if I judge from what I find there as well as on all MS Help pages.
hansRAskWoody Plus
hm. another one here:
installed KB3161608. reboot. fine. so far. start IE11. IE can not be executed, will be terminated with the cryptic message "There is a problem". dito FF. dito chrome. Comes out that Malwarebytes Anti Exploit is the problem – deactivated it, and all browsers are fine.
Rollback to previous restore point. problems are gone. hidden updates are still(!) gone.
from win 7 Ultimate 64, SP1, "SP2", patch level may 2016.Win 10 Pro 1909 x64 (18363.1016)· AMD Ryzen 5 2600X · ASRock X470 Taichi · 64 GB @ 3000 MHz· Desktop
Win 10 Pro 1909 x64 (18363.1016)· Intel i7-8565U · 32 GB @ 1333 MHz ·HP Probook 450 G6
Win 7 Ultimate x64 ESU, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Win 10 Pro 1909 x64, Win 10 Pro 2004 x64, Win 10 Pro 20H2 x64, Win 10 Pro 21H1 x64 20201.1000 (Dev Channel) running on VirtualBox
Why would they release a fix for the WU client as part of the non-critical update-rollups and not as another monthy WU client update?
Are they really trolls?
SamAskWoody Lounger
So what do you recommend at this point? Is there any updates we should apply now in order that when we get the word to do the updates that we got on the last black Tuesday they will run in a reasonable length of time or should we wait?
One other thing. Should we run the Maliscious software update that we got last Black Tuesday or should we wait?
Woody: Found the original KB3020369, HIDDEN. It appears that it originally showed up in April 2015, as Rev. 3. Out of band.
It showed up again (appears that it was May 2015), as Rev. 4. I hid it as of May 19, 2015.
It was listed as "important", and also information showed that it was for those with MS Server. It was NOT a Security Update. It remains hidden. I do not have MS Server.
Information about the current "list":
I do not have KB3161647 or KB3161608 listed on the MS Update list. I DO have KB3161664 on the list, shown as a Security Update.
Since it's early in the game, I will just wait until I get an "all-clear" on what is now pending. There are 3 "optional" updates, NONE of which is checked. All are italicized.
Just wanted to track down the record for this KB3020369. I was amazed that it was such an old one.
Thank you once again for your guidance with the MS "nightmare updates", as well as many other issues. 🙂
Q: Are they really trolls?
A: Yes.
You probably have already done this,
but I thought I'd mention it anyway –
have you tried to do a System Restore back to the a point where things were working well, to the time period before you tried to install this group of failing updates for the first time?
Microsoft is trying to bundle updates together to have a lower number of overall updates. More like Windows 10's model.
Unfortunately on the few Vista PCs we still manage, installing all outstanding updates doesn't fix the slow scan/install times (it didn't on Windows 7 either). The PCs are older so 24+ hours to attempt to install updates is common, and PCs that are only on 9 am to 5 pm literally can't get patched.
Naw, we're still at MS-DEFCON 2. Hold on for a few more days, when we have a better idea of what's going on.
That happened to me last year when I was still naive about all this stuff and I blindly installed one or two of the first GWX-prep patches. I shortly thereafter uninstalled them, and ran into some kind of problem (I don't remember what) where I also had to do a system restore to get things back to the way they were —
and then I saw that the page that showed my patching history (for the 2 years prior) was gone, the hidden updates were gone.
I disable System Restore, on XP it wasn't reliable and I kept the habit on Win7.
I had a last try with MS FixIt 50202 found and described at https://www.winhelp.us/reinstall-windows-update.html, I ran in aggressive mode (starts fresh 'Data Store' and 'Download' folders in 'SoftwareDistribution' dedicated WinUpdates folder … started Windows Update after a reboot and… same problem : patch(ed) fail to finish install after reboot.
This was to answer your question. Thanks. But let's stop here, not the place for resolving this sort of problem.
It's astonishing to me that they have calculated (and I'm sure they've pre-calculated everything)
that the catastrophic loss of this much goodwill across a global population of customers (including some very influential I.T. specialists and major purchasers of their products)
is somehow on balance worth it to their company and their brand,
to sacrifice forever that goodwill/trust/reputation (which was worth millions of dollars in value, surely) for whatever new objective it is that they have set for themselves.
To force someone like me
(who is in the market segment of late adopters and of brand habitualists (when it comes to computer operating systems and hardware, at least), who would probably pay them $X amount extra if I could just keep using what I've got for the next 20 years without having to deal with a brand new system/terminology/peripheral equipment/etc.)
to be almost 100% sure that I'm going to move away from any and all Microsoft products when my current system dies,
and will put myself through the headaches, trauma, and expense of moving to, I suppose, Apple,
has taken a huge amount of doing on their part… and in such a short amount of time. It's remarkable.
Yes, thank you Woody — really appreciate your work and guidance!
Yuhong BaoGuest
Note that you can download the file list CSV for KB3161608 too.
I installed this patch on a machine, and then went to check for windows updates, it took about 10 minutes. Much better than a similar machine that is still checking for updates, about 4 hours now. So it works for at least this month. Fingers crossed that it is a long-term fix…
Jim in YakimaGuest
Woody asked me to post this from my email earlier. FWIW …
Know that you are busy tracking the latest updates to our favorite OSes. You must dream in hex.
Want to share this as an aside to the "slow updates" for Win 7. It was a very quick notification of KB3161608 (less than two minutes after resuming from sleep) yesterday morning (optional, unchecked, unitalicized). Not installed and not hidden at this time.
Forty minutes ago [four hours now with this post], while reading your site, ESPN, and some golf stuff, up pops notice that two updates are now available: KB3161608 (because I didn't do anything with it) and KB3162593 (12.6Mb update for Silverlight). The download/install of the Silverlight update took no more than a minute. Nice.
Roused the other tower from it's sleep mode (since yesterday afternoon) and had notice (did not run update) of the same two updates within 15 seconds of desktop. No joke; I watched it all the way. Maybe I got to the front of the queue mysteriously?
Pulled the laptop from its hibernation mode, ran update, and had those same two in 3 minutes.
All three are still on client 7.6.7600.320 (5-14-2014). I can't explain being in the fast lane, but I don't think this is a client-side issue.
Reporting yet another complete success with KB3161608 speeding up WU search.
Ran "Check for Updates" on a laptop with NONE of the June patches installed. Took about 2.5 hours.
Installed *only* KB3161608 using WU. Reboot. No other changes to system. Now "Check for Updates" takes only about 10 min, which is typical for that machine on good days.
Note: Unlike a few others, my "Hidden Patch List" is identical both before and after.
Speculation: Those who have reported an empty "Hidden Patch List" after installing KB3161608 might have WU set to "Never Check". In that mode, patch lists are NOT maintained between sessions, but must be reconstructed by running "Check for Updates" each time you reopen the WU control panel. If so, then finding an empty list after a reboot would not be at all surprising.
no 3020369 -> no 3161608
same here
Thanks for posting over on this side. Better chance of getting a good reason.
I am still using last month's (May '16) speed up utility. My Win 7 Pro updated OK for June. Currently have 23 updates plus 5 optional. Have not updated for June, yet, except running the monthly Malicious utility.
Yes, it *is* a "client-side issue". WU only slows to a crawl when it has to process dependencies for certain ill-behaved patches, and that computation *is* done client-side.
When searches are slow, it isn't because WU is "doing nothing", or waiting for an MS server response, as some have suggested. Rather, it is because the "wuaserv" process is running completely compute-bound, chewing up ALL of the cpu cycles of one entire logical processor core.
You can confirm this easily yourself by running "Resource Monitor" and looking at cpu usage. During a normal WU scan, two processes, "TrustedInstaller" and "wuaserv", alternate, with neither taking huge amounts of cpu, and the two combined using substantially less than one logical processor core. During one of the WU search slowdowns, however, the scan starts out the same way, but soon devolves into "wuaserv" eating an entire logical processor core all by itself, for an hour or more, while "TrustedInstaller" sits idle.
If you have already installed all of the problematic patches listed at wu.krelay.de, then WU *should* behave normally, and searches will be fast. Based on your description, it sounds like you may have done. If so, then that's your explanation.
However, the WU slow search problem isn't "fixed" by installing those patches; it's only mitigated. Consequently, the WU slow search problem will reappear every time a *new* ill-behaved patch is released, as has been the case in each of the last several months.
The older WU client patches only help a little bit in terms of speeding up the WU searches. The fundamental issue (whatever it is) remains unfixed by all of those older WU patches.
However, the most recent WU client patch, KB3161647, which is rolled into KB3161608, really *does* seem to fix things. I suspect that's because KB3161647, actually gets at the root cause, namely a poorly designed and/or implemented algorithm used to compute patch dependencies, an algorithm that doesn't scale well under certain conditions, resulting in a compute-bound "wuaserv" process and an exponential increase in runtime.
For whatever reason, those ill-behaved patches trigger exactly the condition that causes the patch-dependency algorithm to exhibit its poor scaling properties. Which is why pre-installing them appears to "fix" the problem: Once those ill-behaved patches are no longer in play when "wuaserv" is computing the remaining patch dependencies, then the algorithm behaves more reasonably, and search times return to normal.
So… If KB3161647 actually *does* fix the root cause, then the WU slowdown problem may really be fixed this time, once and for all, by installing KB3161608.
It certainly seems to be, based on my limited testing. However, as others have already said, only time will tell.
Maybe missing older patches which are required?
Thomas SperoGuest
Hello Woody,
Do I need to install KB3161608?
What about KB3161647 and KB3161664? Should they be installed or hidden. This is such a mess. I read all the post on this issue and can't make heads or tails of it.
Thank you,
Relax! We're still at MS-DEFCON 2. There's no pressing reason to install ANY of the current patches, as long as you use any browser other than IE or Edge.
I appreciate — and post — the discussions of Windows Update improvements because, at some point, they'll become useful for everybody. But for now, just sit tight.
So, after this morning's auto update check, the KB3161608 June 2016 update rollup is still not being offered on my W7 SP1 x64 machine.
That circumstance includes the fact that KB3020369, which is evidently a prerequisite, has been hidden on my machine since its release last year.
I was considering restoring KB3020369, but NOT installing it, to see if the rollup would be offered if KB3020369 was in the available update list.
That said, with my daily auto update check taking less than 1 minute every day, I'm reluctant to mess with a good thing.
I'm in the PkCano camp which is I don't really want to install a rollup especially when it requires a prerequisite patch issued well over a year ago and it includes other "updates".
At the same time EP's recommendations have been spot on and he's saying go for it (without EP actually addressing the prerequisite issue)…
I guess I'm going to wait until the next patch Tuesday, see if there's another WU client update and proceed from there. If EP finds a WU client update in the next patch Tuesday, I'll install that patch.
If EP finds there is no new WU client for July and then the long scan for updates times comes back, then I may be forced to install the prerequisite KB3020369 and HOPE that the KB3161608 rollup is then offered.
Woody, do you have a better approach to this stupidity for those of us facing this situation?
Seems like a reasonable approach to me.
The only real alternative is to run "check for updates" before you go to bed….
I have just installed KB 3161608 and my hidden update list is still intact.
Update search took 2 minutes to find no updates.
FYI…currently, whether it's an auto check for updates or I actually run a manual "check for updates", both update checks are coming in under a minute since last months KB3161664 WU new client was installed.
Both the auto and manual update checks do not offer the rollup KB3161608 (with the prerequisite KB3020369 hidden).
guys, you want to fix the Windows scan memory leak issue.? I don't know if this patch fixes anything BUT I do know that kb3050265 and KB3102810 fixed my environment. where Wsus and SCCM are integrated for windows update scans. These patches fixed a memory leak from SVChost/wuaserv that would take all available memory for 5-10 minutes. I have confirmed this with my own testing. Looking forward to testing this new agent.
Windows 7, one x86 and one x64, both updated to last week's Patch Tuesday, both had KB3020369 installed, both showed KB3161608 as the only new update. After KB3161608 install and reboot, both initially showed hidden updates gone, but after a check for update showed nothing new, both showed all the expected hidden updates. FYI
John WGuest
Just for the record, my Windows 7 patches (important, recommended, and optional) are all current (installed) as of the May updates since 5/30, except for the "Get Win 10" and "telemetry" updates, which are hidden.
No June updates installed yet.
My Windows Update on Win7 Pro(x86) is set to "Never check for updates"
I just checked for updates (only peeking) and it took 8 minutes to get the results back. 11 important and 1 optional (KB3161608) patches are listed.
For some odd reason, I am no longer experiencing the long update search that I had been for the past few months (one virtual core maxed out forever, etc).
Once the new updates hit, the high CPU usage and long search time for updates struck again, and after 10 minutes, my laptop but itself in standby (thankfully) from overheating. I restarted and quickly downloaded and installed KB3161664 manually and I was good to go. Searching for this month's updates took a few minutes. No more high CPU usage. I guess I'll just keep manually installing the new version of that update each month.
Is there a good reason not to install https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3020369 and still installing other updates?
This patch is an update for the core of Windows Update management which is the servicing stack.
After imaging my Windows 7 x64 semi-test system, I installed KB3161608.
After installing KB3161608, the hidden updates overview is still intact.
I cannot test whether KB3161608 fixes the Windows Update slowdown issue, as I had already installed the June 14 Patch Tuesday updates earlier. So I will see next month, whether or not the slowdown issue is solved.
Fingers crossed, but I hope you won't have to install anything in the future.
Nice of Microsoft to fix Windows 7 finally…
Well this is strange. (KB3162593) popped up all alone this morning. It's a Silverlight Update which has to do with Date Time parsing for Norway and Serbia. (A head scratcher to begin with.) I decided to hide it.
Then I checked if it went to my hidden updates and found all the hidden updates that had been wiped out 6/21/2016 during the process of speeding up Windows Update by installing KB3161647 and KB3161608 have returned. Magic!
FYI…first step….
I have KB 3161664 installed from June's patch offering and it successfully eliminated the long scan for updates problem. 1664, after installation, reduced scan time to under 1 minute.
I restored KB 3020369 this morning which was released last May and is the alleged prerequisite patch for the KB 3161608 June rollup patch.
After restoring KB 3020369, but NOT installing it and just leaving it in the "updates queue", the Windows Update scan still did not offer the KB 3161608 June rollup patch.
The next step will be July's Patch Tuesday to
1- see if KB 3161664 is still effective in reducing scan time,
2- if July brings another "long scan time" see if EP finds a July patch that addresses the long scan issue,
3- If EP indicates there is no new July patch addressing the return of long scan times, then installing the prerequisite KB 3020369 and see if the KB 3161608 rollup fix is offered.
Best I can do here.
W7 SP1 x64
"Is there a good reason not to install…"
Yea, I thought so….and so did others.
From the InfoWorld article about problems with KB3020369 last year entitled:
"Microsoft fingers KB 3020369 as culprit in Stage 3 of 3 reboot hangs".
Keep us posted.
There's somethign fishy in Denmark. Or at least Norway and Serbia.
Others have reported odd behavior with hidden updates. I have no idea what's going on.
@louis I think this is a just a misunderstanding. The servicing stack update is perfectly fine, it has been more than 1 year since it was released and I would like to see Woody clarify this for anyone who still has doubts and creates problems for their own system in relation to Windows Update by not installing this mandatory update.
For those who have decided to stop updating, it is perfectly fine not to install KB3020369.
For those who still install ANY updates on Windows 7 and Windows 2008 R2 after April 2015, KB3020369 is mandatory.
When I started to experience this Windows Update high CPU usage and long search time problem. 5-17-16
I would reboot and the problem would go away.
I installed KB3161664.
And it fixed the Windows Update high CPU usage and long search time problem.
Do I still need to install KB3161608 ?
I had a hidden Western Digital SES driver and it disappeared. I do not know if clearing the update history cache would cause the WD SES driver to disappeared. I cleared the cache through the GWX Control Panel.
Just found in Woody's article on InfoWorld regarding this, that MS fails to mention that you need to install KB 3020369 before installing KB3161608.
I just found it when running into issues installing a new VM.
I'd be willing to bet that you'll need 3161608 after next month – but I'm not sure.
I haven't heard of any "Step 3 of 3" freezes in a long, long time. And I think it's a plain vanilla servicing stack update – with no accompanying snooping programs. 'Course I can't prove it, but….
I did the same with my main Windows 7 x64 system.
Imaged it, and installed KB3161608.
Same outcome:
After installing KB3161608, the hidden updates overview is still intact.
OK…on the trusted advice of ch100, I just installed the prerequisite KB 3020369.
Interestingly enough, as a single install it did NOT require a reboot which is where the original problem with this KB from last year was; the "step 3 of 3 freeze" on reboot.
That said, after the install, a disk cleanup and defrag, I did a search for updates. The search took about 2 minutes, and an additional Optional, Unchecked, Non-Italicized KB 3161608 June rollup was offered. I did not install it yet.
Keep in mind, my update search took under 2 minutes. That's 2 minutes without the rollup having been installed which indicates that that the only June patch I have installed thus far is the EP recommended KB 3161664 which fixed the "long scan time". And it is still fixing the long scan time even after KB 3161608 rollup is offered.
We'll see what the wicked witch of Redmond brings in July.
Much thanks to EP, Woody and ch100 for the guidance here.
Interesting! No reboot. Maybe that's why I haven't heard of any recent problems…
And, yes, that is the expected result of installing 3161664. We won't know until next month if 3161608 works.
Just saw this InfoWorld comment:
I've been setting up 2 new Win7 laptops and trying ALL – and I do mean ALL – the supposed tricks you've so helpfully published to install needed updates. I got the Win 7 "SP2" to install OK, but after that, nothing – until I just tried the KB3161608 and that seemed to break the logjam & now 57 updates are downloading. I will pass on one "trick" of my own with some of these KBs that are supposed to help, including 316068. When I first tried to run them, I would get the checking for updates nonsense, no-stop. But I found if a few moments after I started seeing that, if I rebooted and tried the KB patch again, it almost immediately went into installing mode. No idea why.
Woody: With all of the comments on how various individuals are installing different updates in different sequence – – – – is it better to wait until there is a "tried and true" method to pursue? I still have the old
KB3020369 hidden, and have not attempted to install any of the new June updates I now have.
I have the KB3161664 update in the list of pending updates. I do not have either KB3161647 or KB3161608 (as I mentioned previously). Still have the KB3020369 (from 2015) hidden.
Your recommendation to "WAIT" with the June updates is what I am presently doing. The Defcon-2 is still a valid warning.
Apologies for asking the same question more than once, however I do not possess computer skills as many of our group do. Waiting seems like the only option to stay "safe" at the present time.
Thank you once again, Woody, for your most valued guidance with this nightmare.
Wait with the June updates.
When the time comes, I'll have full instructions. Not to worry. Been doing it for a decade. 🙂
Thank you Woody and @louis for confirming that it is all OK with KB3020369. It is possible that later updates interacting with KB3020369 made the installation smoother now, which is difficult to confirm. Either way, there are more and more updates requiring KB3020369, a major one being https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3125574
I am not currently recommending this update for general use, however we need to acknowledge that it exists.
And I am glad to hear the @louis does not experience slow updates at the moment which makes is less critical to install the June 2016 updates now.
Just as information and not recommendation or endorsement for the latest round of patches, I installed all June updates including Optional updates and I don't experience any issue.
Woody: Thank you so much for the guidance on the present dilemma. We all know we can depend upon you to provide the assistance and security that we need. You are TRULY "One in a Million". 🙂 🙂
Spread the word! Get more people to AskWoody and, importantly, Woody on Windows at InfoWorld. http://www.infoworld.com/blog/woody-on-windows/
(And ask the InfoWorld visitors to kindly turn off their ad blockers.)
I've been spreading the word from "Day One", and will continue to do so (and also ask Infoworld visitors to turn off their ad blockers).
We all owe you an enormous debt of gratitude!! 🙂
Hi Woody and all —
I'm running Win7 Home Premium, SP1.
I installed KB3161608 a few days ago as recommended. No ill effects from it, but since then the Windows Update icon no longer shows in my lower-right taskbar. I have a shortcut on my desktop and double-clicking it still shows 17 important updates. I've done several reboots and cold restarts these past few days, but it's still not there. It's still "instructed" to be there per my customize notifications options.
Just wondering if that happened to anybody else? No big deal, but a curiosity.
Thanks! –SBS
I have used all of your techniques to manually install kb3161664 on 7 sp1 64 machine. It will not install. Can anyone help me with this…
The only way you can get KB 3161647 is by installing the update rollup KB 3161608..
kb3161608 will not install either…
I am stumped
Did you install KB 3020369 first?
Hi Woody, EP and all,
Thanks for all you guys' posts and tests. I would like to report the result I tried. So far so good.
Mine is win7 home premium, SP1. English version, but I run a lot of Mandarin programs on it.
I tried two days ago with uninstalling KB3153199, which I read from an earlier post of this blog. However, I didn't do the rest steps on the post because I found this post during the process. After uninstalling KB3153199, MSE ran smoothly as before. I was happy with the result but I wasn't dare to try windows update.
Earlier today, I got outdoor files home and would like to update MSE to check the files. MSE stuck forever during updating again. I was hesitant to try Woody's post on infoWorld (http://www.infoworld.com/article/3086811/microsoft-windows/microsoft-releases-kb-3161647-kb-3161608-to-fix-slow-windows-7-update-scans.html) because each update kept mention something related to language pack, which I don't know if it will effect my programs. Anyway, today I tried:
1. Installed KB 3020369, off-line, it took about 3 hours to scan and then told me that KB3020369 already been installed. (This is odd because I checked the other day and I didn't have it.)
2. Then I ran KB3161608, same, off-line. It ran surprisingly quick. After a few mins it asked me to restart PC. I did. Then I tried to update MSE… It's normal speed again. Happy!
Still not dare to try Windows update yet. I don't know if MSE will stuck again either.
Really want to say THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH again! Wish everyone good luck!
This is insane…
I cannot install kb3161664 unless I install
but I cannot install KB 3161647 unless I install
but I cannot install KB 3161608 unless I install
and it will not install either..
I did the reboot.. stopped the services, used cmd as admin and they all fail every time.
I give up
This is insanity…
It doesn't have to be so complicated! You need to install 3020369 first. You download it, double-click on the file… and then what happens?
it fails install just like the rest.
So then I said to heck with the bs and went to WU. I selected all june update 18 and they all failed except one net framework.. I guess I will just turn of update and never do it again
What happens? Exactly. It's very hard to figure out what problem you're having unless you explain to me, in detail, what you're seeing?
I'm concerned because I'll be writing this whole sequence up shortly – for readers who aren't familiar with (and shouldn't be familiar with!) any of the problems.
KB3161608 showed up as failed in windows update list after I (finally) got recent updates to download and install. Tried the standalone installer for it on W764, it says "not applicable to your computer".
Every bunch of windows updates for 3 months now has been a botch job requiring that I change update settings to never update, restart, use services.msc to stop the windows update server, find the random rogue KBxxxxxxx that needs to be installed standalone to unstick windows update's ability to update, install that, restart, try windows update again.
The cynical part of me sees the "HEY YOU INSTALL WINDOWS 10!!!" popup messages every 5 seconds that refuse to stop even after hiding the W10 on updates list and correlates it with the decline in service from Windows Update for W7; the impression I get is microsoft are trying to make my life difficult until I give in and install W10. But then I remember that quot, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" and think it can quite easily be accounted for in that way too.
KB3161608 June roll up patch broke Intel Bluetooth on my laptop. A number of Intel BT processes could not be loaded during PC startup. Connection of basic BT device, such as BT keyboard was fine. However, attempting to connect to BT speaker results in error.
The Intel BT error are encountered by a number of users and are being discussed in the Intel forum: https://communities.intel.com/thread/103579
After doing a clean install of 7 Pro SP1 I had the common update problems. Then I reinstalled, applied
3145729,3138612,3020379 and the 3161608 rollup. The next check found 234 fixes which installed smoothly.
Thank you Woody !
I'm starting to think this is a better approach than using the "SP2" rollup…
Has anyone thought that maybe Microsoft is intentionally causing these problems for all of the past windows platforms so that we all jump on their bandwagon to go to win 10?
Looks like they can sell a lot more software if we all on win 10
I didn't have any problems with this update on my Win7 boxes, or my Server2008 boxes. But it broke Dell OMSA (OpenManage Server Assistant) on every Server2008R2 server upon which I installed it. I updated OMSA, reinstalled it according to Dell's recos, still no joy. Uninstalling KB3161608, which is listed as optional for those servers, fixed the problem.
I have seen update KB3161608 listed in many articles as a spy update. I won't install it. Do a search for Never10 and it will put an end to Windows 10 nagging updates. The genuine GWX.exe file is a software component of Windows 10 Update program by Microsoft. It is an advertising software from Microsoft for Windows 10, and has a white windows flag icon in Taskbar notification area. It is located in C:WindowsSystem32GWXGWX.exe.
Hi ! I've experienced the Bluetooth problem with 3 Intel wi-fi adapters (AC-7620, N-1030 and N-2230). It breaks the drivers ! and a message prevent you to remove or update the drivers !…After 3 days of intensive search on the web, I've found it was caused by this update ! Uninstalling KB3161608 fixed the problem and allow to install the drivers again !! For more information, take a look at :
I am back to report. So far so good. I hope Microsoft won't do this again, please.
I also did a clean install after putting in a new hard disk and was stuck in the never ending windows update issue.
I then tried 3161608 which gave the message "searching for updates on your computer" which stayed there for hours until I ended the task. I downloaded it again and saved it, then shut down the PC and disconnected internet. I ran it again and it installed within a couple of mins. I then did a normal windows update which worked and downloaded 200 update in about 4 minutes.
Many thanks for the info and good luck everyonme.
Can anyone help me with finding KB3161608 so I can download and install it on my affected system?
Any links I find searching for it are all dead/page cannot be found.
I had it in the "optionals" way back on July 3rd, and TODAY when I made a mistake by trying to DL & install a standalone update reference (KB3168965) from July 15th, I got into a real "Mess" with the "searching for updates" starting and then I had to finally shut down the computer after almost 2 hours.
I then checked looking for KB3161608 and I found that my optional update which you are now looking for had disappeared from my list.
When I checked to see if there was a site where I could try to DL the KB3161608, I could not find one. I won't have anymore time tonight to search. If I do find a link which is valid I'll post it here.
WildcatRay: I did find one link that had information, however I don't know how current it is. It does have DL information on it. Here is the link on this one:
I did see the other site I found previously which says:
"We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found."
These were the only two links I found. Good luck to both of us!!
Craig, how do you "end the task" when the "searching for downloads" is running "forever"?
I think it would be thru the "task manager", however do not know how to utilize it. If I could have that information, it would help me when the "never-ending searching for updates" won't stop. I can only shut the computer down.
Thank you for any assistance you may be able to provide. 🙂
Looks like it's been pulled. More news in the morning.
@Woody @WildcatRay: It appears that the 2nd link I provided may not be valid because there seems to be a problem with the KB3161608 itself.
Woody will have the current information on this one.
KB3161608 pulled and replaced by KB3172605 which includes the fixes from KB3161608.
The June 2016 Rollup has been superseded by the July 2016 Rollup:
This is why there were no files available at teh links on the June Rollup page. Also, I understand there is now a supersede statement on the June Rollup page.
FYI: I was only able to download the needed file using Method 3 and IE.
After installing the July 2016 Rollup, Windows Update found 39 more updates in ~5 minutes. Before applying the rollup, the affected computer would just hang there supposedly looking for available updates.
I don't currently use Bluetooth on my computers so if Bluetooth is affected, it is not currently an issue for me.
Here is a thread for folks to refer to when going about applying the rollup patch.
Finally, you should be able to force a hung Windows Update closed using Task Manager. I would reboot after that just to be safe.
Yep, that's exactly what happened. InfoWorld post coming shortly.
I did forget to post the link to the thread at Windows Secrets Lounge forums I mentioned in my previous post:
WildcatRay & Woody:
This morning when I booted up, there were 10 regular updates, and 6 optional updates. I spent a total of about 5 hours yesterday and was unable to get the "searching for updates" done, so had to shut the computer down.
The new update references the KB3172605 (29.2MB) and is in the Optional updates.
Also listed in the "Optionals" is KB3173040. I noted that KB is on one of the previous "Blocked Lists". Is KB3173040 still on the "Blocked List"?
BTW the update KB3168965 is on the new list of updates I got this morning too.
It's just crazy – – – it hasn't even been 10 days before this disastrous mess appeared. It only seems to get worse.
Again we go back to the question…"Should we be installing all the patches MS is throwing down the chute to keep WU running correctly?" as you have suggested in the past.
I recall that you have not installed 4 problem patches, and you do recommend installing all others, including Optionals, after a "buffer" period.
This 1608 problems abd it being pulled does not fit with your guidance to install everything even after a grace period. I hope you will reconsider your advice to people. You have a great deal of computer knowledge, which we all appreciate, but I've felt that your approach and recommendation to the MS patches-WU problems has been a bit misguided.
I hope you will reconsider.
Woody: Just a quick question about KB3173040, which I referenced above. It is listed on on July 11, 2016. So this is the reason I'm asking about it now, since it's in the few optional downloads I received yesterday. It is on the "block lists".
Here is the link to the July 11th menu:
There was another reference to this one on July 12th as well.
Presently I am not touching "anything", even though I finally have updates on the computer. I'm waiting for the latest on the best method to utilize to search for a "safe"
Thank you for all of the information you have provided, Woody. As always it is very much appreciated. 🙂
Jury's still out on all the July patches…
I have all 6 (7?) of the updates indicated in the InfoWorld article installed and am still seeing long periods of 25% CPU usage daily by svchost that immediately disappear when I kill the wuauserv service. It also takes FOREVER to check for driver updates via Device Manager. I'm on Win 7 Ultimate x64 and I installed the updates in the following order:
* supposedly includes the magic bullet KB3161647
However, when I run
wmic qfe | find "KB3161647"
it does not find anything. Could that mean the roll-up skipped it? Perhaps I should download and install KB3161608 manually this time? (Last time I let Windows Update handle it.).
Anyone else still having this problem?
Best to follow the instructions at wu.krelay.de…
James LightfootGuest
After many sleeps nights (and days), reinstalling the OS (Win 7 Ult. x64) 3 times via 2 different disks, I finally found a solution that works, and works well.
The website is http://wsusoffline.com/ It a freeware utility, donations are welcomed, and they have a donation coming from me. It determines what updates are required, connects to the Microsoft Update Catalog, pulls down the WU's and then generates an ISO. Using an ISO utility (e.g. Deamon Tools), simply mount the ISO an run the UpdateInstall. exe in the ISO. It is not completely painless (e.g. I had to find the new MS download site for the Visual Studio C++ 2015 updates, but the forums have the new download sites listed.
What link will have KB3161608 so I can download it on my Windows 7 Home Premium 64-BIT. My Windows Update is taking forever to check for updates never happened until September 2016. Please send an e-mail where I have my e-mail address
See this
Including my note in the comments.
Then go to http://wu.krelay.de/en/ for the download links.
James LightfootGuest
If you are receiving any errors and/or missing updates, go to the wsus forums site and post the question. http://forums.wsusoffline.net/
At the time I was going through the update process, I kept receiving the error, "Warning: Download of http://download.microsoft.com/download/ … st.x64.exe failed (which is tied to the "Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 Redistributable (x64 and x86) – 14.0.2306". I posted my question on how to resolve the issue (http://forums.wsusoffline.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5832&p=19837#p19837), and recieved an answer within 7 hours.
Which reminds me, I need to go a donation to them. The download is freeware, but it is excellent.
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Please note orders where the weight exceeds 0.9 Kg will be dispatched via courier 3/5 day delivery.This is due to massive increases in charges by Royal Mail.
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Featuring heavily in the site are dog ornament figurines and cat figures. Some of these collectable animal ornaments are retired pieces and when they have gone they cannot be re-ordered. Brands stocked include are Country Artists, Leonardo, Juliana and Border Fine Arts. We also stock Arora Design Little Paws range of dogs, cats and farmyard ornaments.
We are stockists of Gund Baby. A range of plush bears for Christening gifts, wedding gifts, and many other special occasions gifts. The Blue Nosed Tatty Teddy plush toy is loved worldwide from the prestigious brand of Carte Blanche.Ranges of wildlife figurines from top brands Border Fine Arts, Country Artists and Leonardo including Lion figures, Tiger figurines and many more wildlife collectable ornaments.
We stock an unusual range of trinket boxes from Juliana including dog figures, cat figurines and many more plus a range of mice figurines from different world renowned brands.
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Staffy and pup ornament Pets with Personality£46.00 £39.99
Foxhound figurine ornament Border Fine Arts£19.95 £17.99
Border collie dog ornament figurine Bess£21.94
Jack Russell dog ornament bronze£29.99


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Congress has less than two months to prevent across-the-board tax increases scheduled to take effect January 1, and the compromise legislation that could prevent these tax hikes is nowhere in sight. However, now that the election is behind us, it appears as if Congressional Republicans may be more inclined to compromise. Many members of the GOP have softened the strict position that they will not accept any tax increases for the upper classes, and Democrats may have begun to realize that they will be unable to raise the necessary revenue based on increases for the rich alone.
It is now time to prepare clients for an alternative plan—the fiscal cliff could be eliminated by maintaining current tax rates while capping deductions and reducing spending by reforming entitlement programs, such as Medicare and Social Security.
The Impending "Taxmageddon"
In approximately six weeks, taxes on nearly every form of taxable income will increase absent legislative action; these tax hikes will affect your clients in every tax bracket. Taxes on ordinary income will revert to pre-Bush-era levels, the tax rate on dividends will more than double, the maximum estate tax rate will rise from 35% to 55%, and taxes on certain capital gains will increase from 15% to 20%. Even the 2% payroll tax holiday is set to expire.
While most compromise legislation has focused on allowing some of these rates to rise while maintaining current rates for lower-income groups, Congress may be able to leave most tax rates in place if they focus on capping deductions and reducing spending for all taxpayers. Of course, while this is a tax increase in itself, the impact would be far less dramatic than allowing tax rates to increase across the board.
A Cap on Deductions
The Tax Policy Center recently released figures showing that a $17,000 cap on deductions (such as mortgage interest and charitable deductions) could raise an additional $1.7 trillion over the next 10 years. This far surpasses the $440 billion that would be raised during the subsequent 10 years by allowing tax rates for the wealthiest taxpayers to increase from 35% to 39.6%, as President Obama has proposed.
While this cap would impact some middle-class taxpayers, the Tax Policy Center found that the wealthiest taxpayers would generate the bulk of this additional revenue. Despite this, about 25% of the tax increase would affect taxpayers earning between $112,000 and $228,000—and 20% would impact taxpayers with incomes below the $112,000 level.
Despite this, it seems that capping deductions is an idea that both sides could be willing to work with. President Obama has proposed capping deductions at 28%, though this would raise only about $288 billion in the next ten years.
Reducing Entitlement Spending
Raising taxes is not the only way to prevent the impending fiscal cliff—reducing spending levels on entitlement programs, while extremely unpopular among liberals, could prevent outright tax increases in 2013. President Obama has previously indicated that he might be willing to increase Medicare premium levels and also increase the eligibility age from 65 to 67.
Similarly, proposals have been introduced that would increase the retirement age for Social Security purposes and limit annual cost-of-living increases for current recipients.
While these proposals are widely unpopular, some Republicans have said that any compromise would have to include a reduction in entitlement spending. Despite their unpopularity, the Republican position could force Congress to finally address some of the problems inherent in the entitlement system to guarantee more secure benefits for future generations.
Enough space exists between the Republicans' proposed $17,000 cap and the president's proposed 28% cap to make the possibility of finding a compromise position realistic. Reforming entitlement programs could help prevent an outright tax increase while increasing the longevity of these benefits. The emergence of these proposals post-election presents a potential silver lining to the impending fiscal cliff discussions and provides hope that a compromise can be reached.
For previous coverage of the potential 2013 tax increases, see "Retirement Planning for the Next Four Years Under President Obama."
For additional coverage of this issue and similar ones, we invite you to sign up with AdvisorOne's Summit Business Media partner, National Underwriter Advanced Markets, for a free trial.
You may also be interested in signing up for a free trial with another Summit Business Media partner, Tax Facts Online.


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Clear Small Mobile Partition Shield Panel - 47"H x 23"W
Price: $495.00
Spill 911 Part Number: PRD602
Manufacturer Part Number: PRD602
Manufacturer: Accuform
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By clicking on the "ADD TO CART" button on the spill911.com website, you ("Buyer") are indicating that you have read, understand and agree to be bound to the following terms and conditions pertaining to this purchase. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, do not purchase this product.
Buyer certifies that it is an Industrial User and not a consumer, and that it understands and acknowledges that this product is designed for Industrial Use only. Buyer accepts full and sole responsibility for any harm to person(s) or property that may result from the use or misuse (accidental or intentional) of this product, or from any departure from the application instructions provided on the product label. Buyer understands that this product contains chemical substances and may be dangerous or harmful if misused. Buyer hereby agrees to indemnify and hold harmless UltraTech International, Inc. and NeverWet LLC and seller from any and all responsibility for any harm to person(s) or property that may result from the misuse (accidental or intentional) of this product, or from any departure from the application instructions. Buyer acknowledges he/she is not purchasing this item for any illegal use or purpose. Buyer further understands and acknowledges he/she is purchasing this item as an industrial product for professional use.
Buyer understands and acknowledges that this product will be shipped with a Safety Data Sheet and detailed application instructions. This is a dangerous chemical and requires careful handling and the proper use of personal protection equipment, including a respirator, nitrile gloves and eye protection (goggles). Misuse or other departure from the application instructions can result in serious injury or even death. Buyer agrees that he/she is over 21, is aware of the risks and dangers, and assumes all responsibility for the use of this industrial chemical.
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If you're looking for a dispensary near RTD's Westminster station, look no further than The Green Solution at Federal and 67th Avenue. Situated north of I 76 and south of US 36, this is the nearest TGS to Hidden Lake Park and Little Dry Creek. Whether you're a cannabis connoisseur, a newbie, or somewhere in-between, you'll find a spectacular selection of flower, edibles, and concentrates at TGS Federal.
Great news! The Dahlia Underpass is now open and providing direct access to TGS Grape Street.
Come watch our grass grow... literally! The Green Solution on Grape Street in northeast Denver offers something special that you won't find at every dispensary -- a panoramic view into our grow room. This location is also the closest TGS to Denver International Airport, offering visitors easy access to Colorado's favorite purveyor of cannabis. Conveniently located just off 1-70 and near Commerce City, Stapleton, and Park Hill, TGS Grape Street has a vast selection of flower, concentrates, edibles, and accessories to meet all your needs.
Just south of Alameda and immediately west of 225, The Green Solution Potomac is your dispensary in Central Aurora. Near Buckley Air Force Base, Community College of Aurora CentreTech, and Aurora Hills Golf Course, this location offers the same amazing flower and cannabis products at the great prices you've come to expect from TGS in a convenient spot.
We're proud to recruit local retail associates at our stores, and uniquely train them to handle questions from those visiting Colorado who might be new to the cannabis experience. Whether you are a first-time user, cannabis veteran, or in town for medical reasons, your questions will be answered thoroughly and your needs met accordingly. Our goal is for you to always have a positive experience, both in our store and at your home.
The Green Solution (TGS) will show its gratitude for customers and the community with a customer appreciation event at the company's dispensary located at: 3179 South Peoria Court from 2 to 6 p.m.
Looking for the best dispensary near Cherry Creek State Park? Look no further than The Green Solution Peoria! Located near Parker Road and 225 and just steps from the Nine Mile Station, you'll find every cannabis product your heart desires here; fantastic flower? Clean concentrates? Excellent edibles? We've got it all, served up by smiling people who are happy to answer your questions.
If you're looking for Denver's best dispensary, skip the green mile and head west from Broadway to The Green Solution on Alameda (between Zuni and Federal). Near all that Central Denver has to offer, this location offers the same amazing selection and personalized service you've come to expect from Colorado's favorite cannabis purveyor, just 5 minutes west of 1-25.
Just one mile west of Sloan's Lake and Sheridan Blvd. on 20th Avenue, The Green Solution Edgewater is our westernmost location in the Denver Metro Area. Close to everything West Colfax has to offer (Casa Bonita, anyone?), this dispensary is adjacent to a gas station and convenience store, so you can fuel up when you shop for flower. Whether you're taking in a Broncos game at Mile High Stadium, spending the day at Lakeside Amusement Park, or watching a movie at the Alamo Drafthouse on Colfax, be sure to stop by TGS Edgewater for all your cannabis needs.
In the 1800s, miners struck gold in the Colorado mountains, and now you can strike green at the The Green Solution Silver Plume, the world's first cannabis outlet store! You'll find the same incredible selection of quality cannabis and cannabis accessories you've come to expect from TGS at discounted prices at this dispensary just steps from the historic Georgetown Loop Railroad. Whether you're hitting the ski slopes or heading to the Outlets at Silverthorne, stop at TGS Water Street for an unforgettable experience.
Located on Commercial Street in the world's first \\\"Marijuana Mini Mall\\\" , The Green Solution Trinidad offers the same great selection of cannabis products and accessories that you'll find in our Denver dispensaries, but just 15 miles north of New Mexico. If you're in Pueblo, or traveling to Colorado from Texas or Oklahoma, this is The Green Solution for you.
The Green Solution is proud to have a dispensary in Ram Country! Whether you live in Fort Collins or are just visiting this great Northern Colorado city, TGS has the cannabis products and accessories you're looking for. North of Colorado State University on College Avenue, this location is near the Cache la Poudre river, Chipper's College Lanes, and the Lyric Cinema -- and not too far from Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Batter up! If you're headed to a Rockies game at Coors Field, stop in at Colorado's favorite dispensary -- now in downtown Denver. Whether you're going to a baseball game, shopping at Pavilion's, or at an event at the Convention Center, The Green Solution at Union Station (1995 Wewatta Street) is your destination for fine cannabis products and accessories. Located just 5 minutes from the LoDo, RiNo, and Highlands neighborhoods, and the first stop off the A Line from DIA, this TGS has everything you've come to expect from us, in the middle of one of the nation's most vibrant downtown areas.
Smack dab in the middle of one of the Denver area's most popular shopping districts and offering the finest available selection of cannabis and cannabis accessories is The Green Solution on Kentucky Avenue. Whether you're a connoisseur, a newbie, or somewhere in-between, you'll find a spectacular selection of flower, edibles, and concentrates at this bright, clean, and modern dispensary near the Cherry Creek Shopping Center. Just east of Colorado Blvd and north of I-25, this location is near the University of Denver campus and the Cherry Creek Trail.
Looking for a great dispensary near the Quincy Reservoir in Aurora? Look no further than The Green Solution located between S. Reservoir Road and S. Flanders Street on Quincy Avenue, where you'll find the same great products and accessories you've come to expect from Colorado's premier purveyor of cannabis. Whether you're a seasoned connoisseur shopping for quality concentrates or an absolute beginner who's curious about flower and edibles, our highly-trained Retail Associates are happy to answer your questions and help you find exactly what you need -- at the right price.
The Green Solution is home to the industry's finest flower, cannabis products, and accessories, and now Colorado's favorite dispensary is coming to Sheridan (at Federal between Dartmouth and Hampden)! You'll be delighted by our selection, and you'll find everything you need at this location just southwest of Denver near Englewood. Whether you're shopping at River Point at Sheridan, hiking at Bear Creek Lake Park, or catching a show at The Gothic Theatre, The Green Solution Sheridan is your nearby, one-stop shop for all your cannabis needs.
Colorado's favorite dispensary is coming to Pueblo! The Green Solution is home to the industry's finest flower, cannabis products, and accessories. You'll be delighted by our selection, and you'll find everything you need at this location just west of I25 and south of W. Pueblo Blvd. Whether you're visiting the Colorado State Fairgrounds, Pueblo's famous Riverwalk, or taking in a show at Memorial Hall, The Green Solution Pueblo is your nearby, one-stop shop for all your cannabis needs.
Colorado's finest dispensary, The Green Solution, is now open in Colorado's ultimate mountain adventure town. Whether you're visiting to paraglide over fall's golden colors, to mountain bike through spring's wildflowers, for skiing or the X-Games in winter, or to enjoy the Aspen Music Festival in the summer, we have a wide selection of top-quality flower, concentrates, edibles, and cannabis accessories sure to enhance your experience. Whether you're a connoisseur, a newbie, or somewhere in-between, our friendly associates are happy to answer your questions and match you with the products you're seeking. Visit us at S Mill Street just around the corner from E Main Street to take your adventure to a higher level.","field_store_is_active":"1"},{"geolocation":{"lat":"39.561","lng":"-107.35109","lat_sin":"0.63689937039492","lat_cos":"0.77094694499074","lng_rad":"-1.8736299761048","data":null},"title":"Hwy 6 & 24 @ Glenwood Springs (TGS Colorado)","field_store_address":null,"field_store_address_additional_name":null,"field_store_address_address_line1":"51701 Highway 6 & 24","field_store_address_address_line2":"","field_store_address_administrative_area":"CO","field_store_address_country_code":"US","field_store_address_dependent_locality":null,"field_store_address_family_name":null,"field_store_address_given_name":null,"field_store_address_locality":"Glenwood Springs","field_store_address_organization":null,"field_store_address_postal_code":"81601","field_store_address_sorting_code":null,"field_store_code":"glenwoodsprgs","field_store_description":"","field_store_geolocation":null,"field_store_id":"27","field_store_name":"Hwy 6 & 24 @ Glenwood Springs","field_store_phone":"(303) 990-9723","field_store_type":"75","field_store_image":["/sites/default/files/2019-12/tgs-glenwood-springs-exterior_02.jpg"],"field_store_directions_link":"https://goo.gl/maps/bCJ6vxfGZJqYu9kE6","field_store_map":"","field_store_hours":"OPEN DAILY 8AM - 7PM","field_store_detail_body":"
The water in Glenwood Springs' world-famous Hot Springs is not the only soul-soothing, stress-relieving way to find relaxation in town. Visit The Green Solution located in northwest Glenwood Springs off Hwy 6 and 24 between Vicco's Charcolburger Drive-In and Colorado 24/7 Fitness to soothe and rejuvenate with a wide selection of top-quality flower, concentrates, edibles, and cannabis accessories. Whether you are a cannabis connoisseur, a newbie, or somewhere in between, our friendly associates are happy to answer your questions and match you with the products you're seeking.
The Green Solution is now open in the largest gambling town you'll find in Colorado, Black Hawk! Located on Gregory Street across from Crooks Palace, this location is within walking distance from the casinos and gambling that made the city famous. Stop in to enhance your experience with our wide selection of top-quality flower, concentrates, edibles, and cannabis accessories from Colorado's favorite dispensary. Whether you're a connoisseur, a newbie, or somewhere in-between, our friendly associates are happy to answer your questions and match you with the products you're seeking.","field_store_is_active":"1"},{"geolocation":{"lat":"40.1545","lng":"-105.10256","lat_sin":"0.64485093488801","lat_cos":"0.76430836170623","lng_rad":"-1.8343857242749","data":null},"title":"S Main St @ Longmont (TGS Colorado)","field_store_address":null,"field_store_address_additional_name":null,"field_store_address_address_line1":"206 S Main Street","field_store_address_address_line2":"","field_store_address_administrative_area":"CO","field_store_address_country_code":"US","field_store_address_dependent_locality":null,"field_store_address_family_name":null,"field_store_address_given_name":null,"field_store_address_locality":"Longmont","field_store_address_organization":null,"field_store_address_postal_code":"80501","field_store_address_sorting_code":null,"field_store_code":"longmont","field_store_description":"","field_store_geolocation":null,"field_store_id":"29","field_store_name":"S Main St @ Longmont","field_store_phone":"(303) 990-9723","field_store_type":"75","field_store_image":["/sites/default/files/2019-12/tgs-longmont-exterior.jpg"],"field_store_directions_link":false,"field_store_map":"","field_store_hours":"OPEN DAILY 8AM - 9:45PM","field_store_detail_body":"
Selling a wide selection of top-quality flower, concentrates, edibles, and cannabis accessories, Colorado's favorite dispensary is now located in Longmont. Just south of Longmont's historic downtown on S. Main Street, you'll find The Green Solution between Dan's Master Auto Care and Hayes Automotive. Whether you're a seasoned connoisseur shopping for quality concentrates or an absolute beginner who's curious about flower and edibles, our highly-trained Retail Associates are happy to answer your questions and help you find what you need -- at the right price.
Welcome to Stapleton, where dozens of unique small business, bustling eclectic neighborhoods, and now your favorite dispensary, The Green Solution, proudly call it home. Our state-of-the-art layouts and technologies fit right in with this modern thriving neighborhood, within arm's reach for residents of Stapleton, Lowry, East Denver, and North Aurora. Containing dozens of strain selections and hundreds of products including concentrates, edibles, and topicals, your store is ready, with attentive Retail Associates, to curate a custom consumption experience tailored to your needs and preferences.
Exclusive drinkware from The Green Solution, expertly designed and loyalty member approved. We highly recommend our pint glasses as the best vessel for all your beverage consumption. Our glassware is durable and dishwasher safe.


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If your healthcare provider thinks you might have breast cancer, you will need certain exams and tests to be sure. Diagnosing breast cancer starts with your healthcare provider asking you questions. He or she will ask you about your health history, your symptoms, risk factors, and family history of disease. Your healthcare provider will also give you a physical exam, including an exam of your breasts.
You may have one or more of the following tests:
Breast MRI
Nipple discharge exam
Mammogram. A mammogram is an X-ray of the breast. It's done to look for and learn more about unusual breast changes. These may include a lump, pain, nipple thickening or discharge, or a change in breast size or shape. A screening mammogram checks for changes. A diagnostic mammogram uses more pictures to look more closely at changes that were seen on a screening mammogram.
Ultrasound. This test uses high-frequency sound waves to make images of body tissues on a computer screen. This exam is often used along with a mammogram.
Breast magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). This test uses large magnets and a computer to make detailed images of tissues inside the breast.
A biopsy removes tissue or cells from the breast to check them under a microscope. A biopsy is the only way to know if cells are cancer.
A breast biopsy may be done with local or general anesthesia. Local anesthesia uses medicine to numb the area of the breast where a needle will be inserted. General anesthesia uses medicines to put you into a deep sleep while the biopsy is done. There are several types of breast biopsy. The type of biopsy done will depend on the location and size of the breast lump or change.
Types of breast biopsy include:
Fine needle aspiration (FNA) biopsy. A very thin needle is placed into the lump or changed area to remove a small sample of fluid or tissue. This type of biopsy may be used to help find out if a breast change is a fluid-filled sac that's usually not cancer (a cyst) or a solid lump.
Core needle biopsy. A large needle is guided through the skin into a lump or other area to remove small cylinders of tissue (cores).
Surgical biopsy. This is also called an open biopsy. A surgeon removes part or all of a lump or other area through a cut (incision) into the breast. There are 2 types of surgical biopsy. During an incisional biopsy, a small part of the lump is removed. During an excisional biopsy, the entire lump is removed. If the lump is very small and deep and hard to locate, the wire localization method may be used during surgery. This is when an X-ray is used to put thin wire through your skin and into the lump. The surgeon then follows this wire to help locate the breast lump.
Lymph node biopsy. If lymph nodes under the armpit are swollen or look enlarged on imaging tests, the doctor will want to check them for cancer cells. A needle biopsy may be done to take out and check cells from the lymph node.
Special tools and methods may be used to guide the needles and to help with biopsy procedures. These include:
Stereotactic biopsy. This method finds the exact location of a breast lump or area by using a computer and mammogram results to create a 3-D picture of the breast. A sample of tissue is removed with a needle.
Vacuum-assisted biopsy. A small cut is made in the skin, and a thin, needle-like, hollow tube is inserted into the breast lump or mass. An imaging test is used to guide the tube to the right place. The breast tissue is gently suctioned into the tube, and a small rotating knife inside the tube removes the tissue.
Ultrasound-guided biopsy. This method uses a computer and a small handheld device (transducer) that sends out ultrasonic sounds waves to create images of the breast lump or mass. The images help to guide the needle biopsy.
Fluid may be collected from nipple discharge and then sent to the lab to look for cancer cells. Most nipple secretions are not cancer. An injury, infection, or noncancer (benign) tumor may cause discharge.
When your healthcare provider has the results of your biopsy and other tests, he or she will contact you with the results. Your provider will talk with you about other tests you may need if breast cancer is found. Make sure you understand the results and what follow-up you need.
Francesca Torriani, MD
Medical Director, Infection Prevention and Clinical Epidemiology
UC San Diego | School of Medicine


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The Adobe® Flash® runtimes, Adobe Flash Player and Adobe AIR®, together enable businesses to efficiently deliver rich customer experiences across multiple digital touchpoints. With Flash Player and AIR, content can easily and consistently move between the browser and native operating systems to reach users on the devices of their choice. Since the Adobe runtimes share a common codebase, developers can re-use code to deploy content though both AIR and Flash Player.
Top benefits for business
Top benefits for developers
Data-driven applications
Differentiate applications by delivering superior, more intuitive user experiences that have the broadest reach and greatest consistency across devices and browsers, require less support and deliver a better ROI for customers.
Data-driven applications
Quickly build expressive mobile, web and desktop apps for iOS, Android, BlackBerry® and webOS while leverage a common codebase.
Lead innovation and publish to the broadest possible audience with games across desktops, mobile devices and TVs, while driving higher conversion rates.
Develop high-performance, console-quality games in 2D and 3D and leverage the ubiquity of Flash Player and Adobe AIR to reach desktop, mobile and TV audiences.
Rich media
Use a single source to more securely reach all platforms, maximise bandwidth efficiency and take advantage of lucrative new business models.
Rich media
Deliver more secure and consistent HD-quality video across mobile devices, desktops and TVs from a single source.
Flash Player
Deliver immersive experiences inside the browser
Flash Player is a web browser plug-in that delivers expressive cross-platform, browser-based applications, content and video that work consistently across browsers on a broad range of devices, including smartphones, tablets, personal computers and TVs.
Adobe AIR
Extend the experience beyond the browser
Adobe AIR, the sister runtime to Adobe Flash Player, enables the delivery of stand-alone applications that run outside the browser. With AIR, developers can deploy applications that connect to the web and run as stand-alone applications without requiring a web connection. AIR applications offer all the advantages of traditional stand-alone apps, such as the ability to run in the background for multitasking or to access a local data base.
See an example
The organisation behind the Grammy Awards uses the Adobe Flash technology to create MusicMapper — a microsite on the platform — as an Adobe AIR application for the online engagement and social media success of MusicIsLifeIsMusic.
FlashGameLicense.com, the ingenious brainchild of two previous independent game developers using the Adobe Flash technology, brings developers and marketers together in best business practices.
Leading international bank delivers rich, engaging digital banking experiences across desktop, tablet and mobile devices using Adobe solutions.
Iconic children's programme takes characters from the small screen to virtually every screen and device with Adobe Creative Suite® and the Flash technology.
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Students may be eligible for government-subsidised training. This is only offered by training providers who have a contract with the Victorian Government to deliver government-subsidised training.
If you're eligible, the government will contribute to the cost of the training.
Government-subsidised training is marked with this symbol . Course availability data is sourced from the Australian Course Information Register.
Courses marked 'Tuition fee-free at TAFE' are on the Victorian Government's Free TAFE for Priority Courses initiative list. This means students who are eligible for government-subsidised training can enrol in one priority course for free at a TAFE Victoria provider.
Your TAFE will confirm your eligibility when you enrol in a course on the Free TAFE for Priority Courses initiative list.
It's important to know that TAFEs may charge other fees, such as student services fees or materials fees, and you'll need to cover these costs yourself.
Before you enrol:
For more information, see Free TAFE for Priority Courses.
This course is available to study as a pre-apprenticeship. A pre-apprenticeship is a great way to get a feel for the industry before committing to an apprenticeship.
Some pre-apprenticeships can help reduce the length of a formal apprenticeship. This only applies to selected courses approved by the Victorian Registration and Qualifications Authority (VRQA). To find out if this applies to your pre-apprenticeship contact your training provider.
For more information about pre-apprenticeships, see our Pre-Apprenticeships page.
The courses shown on the Victorian Skills Gateway website are regulated qualifications under the Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF), or short training programs made up of units of competency from regulated qualifications.
The full fee range does not factor in any government subsidies.
The government-subsidised fee range marked with this symbol factors in a Victorian Government subsidy.
The ranges are based on:
The fee ranges shown do not factor in concessions or scholarships. They also exclude other fees set by the training provider such as materials, services, and amenities.
All subsidies presented on this site are correct at the time of publication; subsidy information is updated on a monthly basis. To obtain the most accurate quote for the course you're considering, please contact the training provider directly.
Occupations in demand are marked with this symbol .
If you see a related job marked with this symbol, it's identifying a role that is currently, or is at risk of, experiencing a skills shortage.
When an occupation has a skills shortage, it means the chances of getting a job after completing your course could be higher.
The information used to identify occupations in demand is primarily sourced from Higher Education and Skills Group (HESG) in the Department of Education and Training (DET), the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) and Deloitte Access Economics.


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View an actual, LIVE cost report. This report is for demo purposes only. Not plan specific.
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Live chat with expert Karen Garner March 24, 2016 at 5:00 pm EDTRegister now to attend and receive a free Alzheimer's emergency kit.Spring is here! Gather takeaways and tips for activities both indoors and outdoors to do with your loved one.Ask expert Karen Garner your Alzheimer's and dementia caregiving questions.Share advice with other caregivers who are experiencing situations similar to those you've encountered.
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Well guys according to several sites, although I will give you one of the link, Jim is on marvel's to play with Adam Sandler in the movie Guardians of the Galaxy.
Here's the full article:
What do you guys think?
I just wanna see him on the theater's. He doesn't need to sell me anything at this point but it may be interesting...