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Of course, one might say, there are certain kinds of problems that lend themselves to huge collaborations. One has only to think of the proof of the classification of finite simple groups, or of a rather different kind of example such as a search for a new largest prime carried out during the downtime of thousands of PCs around the world. But my question is a different one. What about the solving of a problem that does not naturally split up into a vast number of subtasks? Are such problems best tackled by people for some that belongs to the set ? (Examples of famous papers with four authors do not count as an interesting answer to this question.)
It seems to me that, at least in theory, a different model could work: different, that is, from the usual model of people working in isolation or collaborating with one or two others. Suppose one had a forum (in the non-technical sense, but quite possibly in the technical sense as well) for the online discussion of a particular problem. The idea would be that anybody who had anything whatsoever to say about the problem could chip in. And the ethos of the forum — in whatever form it took — would be that comments would mostly be kept short. In other words, what you would not tend to do, at least if you wanted to keep within the spirit of things, is spend a month thinking hard about the problem and then come back and write ten pages about it. Rather, you would contribute ideas even if they were undeveloped and/or likely to be wrong.
This suggestion raises several questions immediately. First of all, what would be the advantage of proceeding in this way? My answer is that I don't know for sure that there would be an advantage. However, I can see the following potential advantages.
(i) Sometimes luck is needed to have the idea that solves a problem. If lots of people think about a problem, then just on probabilistic grounds there is more chance that one of them will have that bit of luck.
(ii) Furthermore, we don't have to confine ourselves to a purely probabilistic argument: different people know different things, so the knowledge that a large group can bring to bear on a problem is significantly greater than the knowledge that one or two individuals will have. This is not just knowledge of different areas of mathematics, but also the rather harder to describe knowledge of particular little tricks that work well for certain types of subproblem, or the kind of expertise that might enable someone to say, "That idea that you thought was a bit speculative is rather similar to a technique used to solve such-and-such a problem, so it might well have a chance of working," or "The lemma you suggested trying to prove is known to be false," and so on—the type of thing that one can take weeks or months to discover if one is working on one's own.
(iii) Different people have different characteristics when it comes to research. Some like to throw out ideas, others to criticize them, others to work out details, others to re-explain ideas in a different language, others to formulate different but related problems, others to step back from a big muddle of ideas and fashion some more coherent picture out of them, and so on. A hugely collaborative project would make it possible for people to specialize. For example, if you are interested in the problem and like having slightly wild ideas but are less keen on the detailed work of testing those ideas, then you can just suggest the ideas and hope that others will find them interesting enough to test or otherwise respond to.
In short, if a large group of mathematicians could connect their brains efficiently, they could perhaps solve problems very efficiently as well.
The next obvious question is this. Why would anyone agree to share their ideas? Surely we work on problems in order to be able to publish solutions and get credit for them. And what if the big collaboration resulted in a very good idea? Isn't there a danger that somebody would manage to use the idea to solve the problem and rush to (individual) publication?
Here is where the beauty of blogs, wikis, forums etc. comes in: they are completely public, as is their entire history. To see what effect this might have, imagine that a problem was being solved via comments on a blog post. Suppose that the blog was pretty active and that the post was getting several interesting comments. And suppose that you had an idea that you thought might be a good one. Instead of the usual reaction of being afraid to share it in case someone else beat you to the solution, you would be afraid not to share it in case someone beat you to that particular idea. And if the problem eventually got solved, and published under some pseudonym like Polymath, say, with a footnote linking to the blog and explaining how the problem had been solved, then anybody could go to the blog and look at all the comments. And there they would find your idea and would know precisely what you had contributed. There might be arguments about which ideas had proved to be most important to the solution, but at least all the evidence would be there for everybody to look at.
True, it might be quite hard to say on your CV, "I had an idea that proved essential to Polymath's solution of the *** problem," but if you made significant contributions to several collaborative projects of this kind, then you might well start to earn a reputation amongst people who read mathematical blogs, and that is likely to count for something. (Even if it doesn't count for all that much now, it is likely to become increasingly important.) And it might not be as hard as all that to put it on your CV: you could think of yourself as a joint author, with the added advantage that people could find out exactly what you had contributed.
And what about the person who tries to cut and run when the project is 85% finished? Well, it might happen, but everyone would know that they had done it. The referee of the paper would, one hopes, say, "Erm, should you not credit Polymath for your crucial Lemma 13?" And that would be rather an embarrassing thing to have to do.
Now I don't believe that this approach to problem solving is likely to be good for everything. For example, it seems highly unlikely that one could persuade lots of people to share good ideas about the Riemann hypothesis. At the other end of the scale, it seems unlikely that anybody would bother to contribute to the solution of a very minor and specialized problem. Nevertheless, I think there is a middle ground that might well be worth exploring, so as an experiment I am going to suggest a problem and see what happens.
I think it is important to do more than just say what the problem is. In order to try to get something started, I shall describe a very preliminary idea I once had for solving a problem that interests me (and several other people) greatly, but that isn't the holy grail of my area. Like many mathematical ideas, mine runs up against a brick wall fairly quickly. However, like many brick walls, this one doesn't quite prove that the approach is completely hopeless—just that it definitely needs a new idea.
It may be that somebody will almost instantly be able to persuade me that the idea is completely hopeless. But that would be great—I could stop thinking about it. And if that happens I'll dig out another idea for a different problem and try that instead.
It's probably best to keep this post separate from the actual mathematics, so that comments about collaborative problem-solving in general don't get mixed up with mathematical thoughts about the particular problem I have in mind. So I'll describe the project in my next post. Actually, make that my next post but one. The next post will say what the problem is and give enough background information about it to make it possible for anybody with a modest knowledge of combinatorics (or more than a modest knowledge) to think about it and understand my preliminary idea. The following post will explain what that preliminary idea is, and where it runs into difficulties. Then it will be over to you, or rather over to us. I've already written the background-information post, but will hold it back for a few days in case the responses to this post affect how I decide to do things.
The blog medium is almost certainly not optimal for this purpose, so if a serious discussion starts with lots of worthwhile contributions, then I'll look into the possibility of migrating it over to some purpose-built site. If anyone has any suggestions for this (apart from the obvious one of using the Tricki — I'm not sure that's appropriate just yet though) then I'd be delighted to receive them. My feelings at the moment are that blogs are too linear—it would be quite hard to see which comments relate to which, which ones are most worth reading, and so on. A wiki, on the other hand, seems not to be linear enough—it would be quite hard to see what order the comments come in. So my guess is that the ideal forum would probably be a forum: if someone knows an easy way to set up a mathematical forum, I might even do that. But if the discussion is on this blog, then I might from time to time try to assess where it has got to and create new posts if I feel that genuine progress has been made that can be summarized and then built on.
I've been thinking of doing this for a long time. The reason I've suddenly decided to go ahead is that I followed a couple of links from this post on Michael Nielsen's blog, and discovered that, unsurprisingly, others have had similar ideas, and some people are already doing research in public. But the idea still seems pretty new, particularly when applied to one single mathematics problem, so I wanted to try it out when it was still fresh. (I would distinguish what I am proposing from what goes on at the n-category café, which is an excellent example of collaborative mathematics, but focused on an entire research programme rather than just one problem.)
To finish, here is a set of ground rules that I hope it will be possible to abide by. At this stage I'm just guessing what will work, so these rules are subject to change. If you can see obvious flaws let me know.
1. The aim will be to produce a proof in a top-down manner. Thus, at least to start with, comments should be short and not too technical: they would be more like feasibility studies of various ideas.
2. Comments should be as easy to understand as is humanly possible. For a truly collaborative project it is not enough to have a good idea: you have to express it in such a way that others can build on it.
3. When you do research, you are more likely to succeed if you try out lots of stupid ideas. Similarly, stupid comments are welcome here. (In the sense in which I am using "stupid", it means something completely different from "unintelligent". It just means not fully thought through.)
4. If you can see why somebody else's comment is stupid, point it out in a polite way. And if someone points out that your comment is stupid, do not take offence: better to have had five stupid ideas than no ideas at all. And if somebody wrongly points out that your idea is stupid, it is even more important not to take offence: just explain gently why their dismissal of your idea is itself stupid.
5. Don't actually use the word "stupid", except perhaps of yourself.
6. The ideal outcome would be a solution of the problem with no single individual having to think all that hard. The hard thought would be done by a sort of super-mathematician whose brain is distributed amongst bits of the brains of lots of interlinked people. So try to resist the temptation to go away and think about something and come back with carefully polished thoughts: just give quick reactions to what you read and hope that the conversation will develop in good directions.
7. If you are convinced that you could answer a question, but it would just need a couple of weeks to go away and try a few things out, then still resist the temptation to do that. Instead, explain briefly, but as precisely as you can, why you think it is feasible to answer the question and see if the collective approach gets to the answer more quickly. (The hope is that every big idea can be broken down into a sequence of small ideas. The job of any individual collaborator is to have these small ideas until the big idea becomes obvious — and therefore just a small addition to what has gone before.) Only go off on your own if there is a general consensus that that is what you should do.
8. Similarly, suppose that somebody has an imprecise idea and you think that you can write out a fully precise version. This could be extremely valuable to the project, but don't rush ahead and do it. First, announce in a comment what you think you can do. If the responses to your comment suggest that others would welcome a fully detailed proof of some substatement, then write a further comment with a fully motivated explanation of what it is you can prove, and give a link to a pdf file that contains the proof.
9. Actual technical work, as described in 8, will mainly be of use if it can be treated as a module. That is, one would ideally like the result to be a short statement that others can use without understanding its proof.
10. Keep the discussion focused. For instance, if the project concerns a particular approach to a particular problem (as it will do at first), and it causes you to think of a completely different approach to that problem, or of a possible way of solving a different problem, then by all means mention this, but don't disappear down a different track.
11. However, if the different track seems to be particularly fruitful, then it would perhaps be OK to suggest it, and if there is widespread agreement that it would in fact be a good idea to abandon the original project (possibly temporarily) and pursue a new one — a kind of decision that individual mathematicians make all the time — then that is permissible.
12. Suppose the experiment actually results in something publishable. Even if only a very small number of people contribute the lion's share of the ideas, the paper will still be submitted under a collective pseudonym with a link to the entire online discussion.


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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Chamber Music
Of the numerous forms of collective music-making, one of the most rewarding is chamber music.
Its value is derived not only from the more complex musical texture, but from the challenge and pleasure of making music together. Moreover, it has benefits in terms of socialized thinking because it requires players to accept each other musically and cooperate to produce music.
As such, chamber music has gained a significant role in music education and this has been recognized by most music schools in the world. Music publishers, including Editio Musica Budapest, have also produced a wide range of scores.
Hungarian musicians have won recognition among countries with long-established musical cultures because of the high quality of Hungarian music education. Music teachers have produced excellent tutors and collections of character pieces, and at the same time they have paid attention to chamber music playing as well.
The series presented here have proved their value over the years in terms of both quality and popularity. This experience gives us the courage to recommend them wholeheartedly and enthusiastically not only to teachers and students but to amateur musicians as well.


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I'm shooting a video I usually put together for a glamourous, upscale mock home that is built inside of one of my client's buildings called DreamHome. I'll update later from the set.
Take this opportunity to post wacky things in the comments that you've always wanted to say, but never had the guts.
This was the graphics I did for the job back in 2007. Happy Tuesday.


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In the latest news and analysis…
Change of tune
The Washington Post reports that a particularly significant group of scientists has joined the chorus of those who say UN peacekeepers likely caused the cholera epidemic that has killed thousands in Haiti since 2010:
"The findings marked a major retreat by the experts, who were part of an independent panel appointed by the United Nations and who had concluded just two years ago that incomplete evidence and the myriad factors in the epidemic's spread — including inadequate water and sanitation infrastructure — made it impossible to assign responsibility for the introduction of the strain. Since then, the experts said, they have obtained new evidence, including microbiological samples.
The latest findings will increase pressure on the United Nations to acknowledge responsibility for introducing cholera into the country. U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and his top advisers had invoked the panel's ambivalent 2010 findings in arguing that the United Nations bore no legal responsibility for the epidemic, although they said the organization was committed to lead international efforts to respond to the health crisis and improve the Haiti's sanitation infrastructure."
Pocket change
The Huffington Post reports on the bottom-line impact of the fine Halliburton Energy Services must pay after pleading guilty to destroying evidence related to America's largest-ever offshore oil spill:
"The fine, as part of a plea deal with the U.S. Department of Justice, is $200,000. That's about how much Halliburton earns every 23 seconds, based on 2012 revenue numbers.
The fine amount is the maximum allowable under the federal statute used to calculate the penalty, which also includes a three-year probation.
Legal experts say Halliburton's admission of guilt is more important than the fine, since it will likely bolster the government's case in an ongoing civil trial in New Orleans to determine how to allocate blame and damages for the 2010 explosion.
Even so, the fine seems hardly sufficient given the seriousness of the crime, said Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond.
'It seems paltry for an act that undermines the justice system,' he said."
Homeward bound
Politico reports on US plans to send two Guantanamo Bay detainees home to Algeria, the first "repatriation outside the Western Hemisphere" since 2010:
" 'As the president has said, the United States remains determined to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay,' [White House press secretary Jay] Carney said, and the repatriation of the two detainees — the first releases this year — are 'in support of those efforts.'
Two Uyghurs — Chinese Muslims — were released to El Salvador in 2012, and Omar Khadr, a Canadian national, was sent home in September 2012 to finish out the remainder of his sentence."
Unpopular war
The Washington Post's Max Fisher speculates on the reasons why, according to a new poll, only 28% of Americans think the war in Afghanistan has been "worth fighting":
"Support began falling in late 2011 and early 2012, when a string of high-profile incidents gave the appearance of a war spinning badly out of control. In January 2012, a video surfaced showing Marines urinating on dead Afghan insurgents. The next month, NATO troops mistakenly burned several Korans, setting off nationwide riots and more 'green on blue' killings. The month after that, a U.S. soldier named Robert Bales wandered off base and into a nearby village, where he killed 16 civilians, nine of them children."
Prison numbers
The US government has released national statistics indicating that nearly one percent of American males are behind bars:
"The national imprisonment rate for males (910 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 male U.S. residents) was over 14 times the imprisonment rate for females (63 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 female U.S. residents). The female imprisonment rate decreased 2.9 percent in 2012 from 65 per 100,000 female U.S. residents in 2011.
In 2012, states with the highest imprisonment rates included Louisiana (893 per 100,000 state residents), Mississippi (717 per 100,000 state residents), Alabama (650 per 100,000 state residents), Oklahoma (648 per 100,000 state residents), and Texas (601 per 100,000 state residents)."
Funding abuses
Human Rights Watch argues in a new report that the World Bank "has closed its eyes" to the human rights risks attached to its lending policies:
"Funding decisions relating to rights concerns lack transparency and appear arbitrary and inconsistent, Human Rights Watch found.
The absence of a clear commitment not to support activities that will contribute to or exacerbate human rights violations leaves staff without guidance on how they should approach human rights concerns, or what their responsibilities are. Staff members have unfettered discretion to determine the extent to which they will consider human rights risks, take measures to mitigate or avoid harm, and even to bring problems to the attention of senior management or the board. The lack of clear procedures and policies on human rights means that people whose rights are adversely affected have no way to hold the bank to account."
Dictating terms
The Guardian reports that despite the rhetoric about "country ownership", donors are increasingly unwilling to let recipient governments decide how to spend aid money:
"One sign of whether donors are putting their money where their mouths are is their willingness to provide budget support – aid that goes directly to developing countries to finance their programmes.
Budget support figures are published annually by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development with a breakdown by provider, and can be used as a proxy for commitment to country ownership. But, according to Ukan and Bond, global budget support fell steeply, to only $1.3bn last year from $4.4bn in 2010."
Calling Robin Hood
Oxfam's Jon Slater welcomes a call by British MPs for the UK to embrace a financial transaction tax:
"Their argument does not rest on the moral imperative that the financial sector should repay the damage it has done – something even the Prime Minister and Chancellor are wary of disputing. Instead the [Business, Innovations and Skills] Committee makes hard-headed economic arguments for an FTT – that it would curb damaging high frequency trading, the computer-driven casino capitalism that causes flash crashes."


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WASHINGTON (CNN) - CNN has obtained detailed photographs of a new stealth fighter being tested in China.
It is the second such stealth fighter China has tested in as many years and appears destined to become the communist nation's future aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, according to weapons analysts.
The plane, dubbed by outsiders as the J-31, was test flown Tuesday in Shenyang. According to the analysts, the two photographs obtained by CNN appear to have been leaked by officials in China.
"It has to be an official photographer because nobody else can get that close to the airplane," said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org. "These are all publicity photos from the factory, and I could not imagine that the factory would publicize these things without somebody higher up in the food chain authorizing it."
Richard Fisher, a senior fellow in Asian military affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center (IASC), agrees these are not pictures sent out surreptitiously by some Chinese aviation aficionado. "The Internet censors are controlling this process, have no doubt that."
But Fisher said the reason for the release may not be as threatening as some might imagine.
"It's being done in a way to help promote pro-military nationalism in China. There's just a huge, large audience in China for this kind of information. It's kind of like NASCAR."
No matter who let the pictures go public, they won't answer all the questions surrounding China's fighter program. "They don't want to reveal anything that's truly useful to a foreign military or intelligence service," Fisher said.
In January 2011, China tested the J-20, a fighter jet with stealth characteristics, much like the American F-22.
Fisher said the J-31 appears be a lighter fighter jet similar to the American F-35.
"The J-20 is the heavy stealth fighter, (The J-31) is going to be the medium-weight stealth fighter. It's very much in the same vein as the F-22 versus the F-35, with the Raptor, the F-22 being the heavy fifth-generation fighter for the U.S. Air Force versus the medium-weight F-35."
Pike said that could be the case, but it may be that China is test flying both prototypes and will choose just one to put into production.
While these are both fifth-generation fighter jets, that doesn't put them on par with America's two newest fighters.
For example, Pike said China's jet engines just don't come close to American engines. "This is a sucking chest wound of Chinese military aviation."
Pike said the primary Chinese military jet engine is based on an American design. "We started development of this engine back in the '60s. Then they commercialized it in the 1970s. Then the Chinese got a hold of it 20 years ago and it's still no good. It's a half century-old design that they've been working on for two decades, and it's still no good."
Fisher has a higher opinion of that engine. "It's not entirely true that China is currently facing massive problems. They've actually had some measure of success."
And Fisher said China appears to be developing a brand new engine for the J-31. "The engines that will likely power the J-31 we do know a bit more about. Those engines were actually revealed at the Zhuhai show in 2008," Fisher said referring to an annual China air show. He believes the new J-31 engine is undergoing preliminary testing.
Another problem is the stealth characteristics of the plane.
The J-31 is designed to have a stealthy shape. "From the side profile, it really looks like a 75% (scale) F-22 from the bottom, and the top profile it very much looks like an F-35."
The J-31 may have the stealth coatings that help it absorb radar signals instead of letting them bounce off and give away its position.
But Pike explained the plane has wide seams where different parts of the plane come together. "The seams form something the radar can bounce off of. I'm looking at some close-ups of the J-31 and it's seamy. It's got all kinds of seams and ripples on the skin."
Fisher agreed. "Yes, that's definitely a fair assessment, but what we can say is that it will have a definite low-observable capability, that's for sure."
While it may start out as a land-based fighter, Pike and Fisher both said it could become China's carrier-based fighter jet when the nation builds a second, catapult-based carrier. Their first carrier, currently undergoing sea tests, uses a ski-jump style flight deck to launch planes.
So should America start worrying about these new fighters ?
"Who else do you think these airplanes were designed to fight?" Pike said. "If the Chinese think that their military is a lot stronger than anybody else in the neighborhood, then they're going to throw their weight around."
Pike estimated the J-31 might become a threat in 2027. "You would expect to see the Chinese stealth fighter enter operational service, I don't know, 15 years from now."
Fisher is predicting much sooner.
"My estimate is that the J-31 will start entering squadron service in four to five years."
looks cool lets see if it doesnt fall apart
too many Pakistani pretending to be Chinese on this page, all useless mother fs like their government.
Those of you of whom live in La La land, The Mao's Red Book is still being read in schools and the Father of Communistic thought in China is still alive. They have used America and made a fortune from the U.S.A. They want us and they have us right where they want us.....broke!
75% scale. All they had to do was move the seat closer to the rudder pedals, not shrink the whole plane.
The Chinese have developed an antidote to the "Stink Bomb"threats from hindus. Billions of american skunks on steroids that will be let loose in India to neutralize the stench.Though I am not sure it will be strong enough.
We continue to be of the opinion that India is a zero sum event in history and that a break up of sorts is the optimum way to maximize its potential for the people. The current events in India reinforce our belief that the inevitable implosion of India has begun and the beginning of the end state is upon us. Whether that will be nirvana that most of us believe it will, is yet to be seen. But this we will say. This defragmentation of India will unleash boundless opportunities and uber economic demand that will be beneficial to US and Europe and help pull them out of current recessionary malaise. We pray for the events to unfold peacefully and in a harmonious manner for the people of India and its neighbors
Everyone copied everyone els's technology at some point in time in histrory....the whole supersonic tech. is fundamentaly developed by Nazis
Who stole it from the aliens!!
Bravo candidate for funniest post of the day.
Indians must be sh!tting in their pants
China has been manufacturing combat aircraft jet engines for decades. The Rolls Royce Spey turbofan engine has been manufactured in China as WS-9 and used in JH-7 fighter bombers.
Everyone needs to note that China does NOT want to go to war with the USA. They want us to pay the bill! If China started a war with the US then the bill is paid in full. Another point all, repeat ALL, these planes are for nationalism or economic reasons only both US and China. The real weapons of war are too frightening for the general public! This is all theater!
If we all wore magic mormon underpants like Willard Romney it would fix everything.
Actually the jet engine technology was stolen from the germans..We all copy and steal.
Messerschmidt Me 262 and Gloucester Meteor became operational at roughly the same time. The German and the British pioneered jet engine technology.
No, we didn't steal it from the Germans. We just took the German jet and rocket scients as the plunder of war.
primary air to air weapons are PL-21 ramjet air to air missiles derived from Meteor and PL-10 AKA PL-ASR heat seekers derived from AIM-9X
Most of the china bashers in this forum are self defeat Indian with inferior complex still lives with the humiliation inflicted by china during the 1962 boarder war. Your upper caste is still the lowest caste in your adopted country where you trying to live like an AMerican but just like a snake, no matter how many times you changed your skin, you still be treated as a lower caste by the American even tho you have doing your best to wipe their backside daily. Pity you for your suffering. Pls continue to in the illusion of Bolywood where you have grown up with hahaha.
Great example of stolen technology.
Great...Pakistan Airforce will be flying this next year. In addition to the 5700km Nuclear tipped Shaheen-3 missile
looks like something they copied from american technology, they like the russians are good at thaT.
Does not look stealth to me – I can see it fine.
Seriously, when is the last time China invented anything on its own? Gunpowder?
Why should China invent anything? It's not a superpower.
That makes no sense. But I know what China invented: shameless theft and copying.
China is an emerging third world country built on copying everything and selling junk.
I don't mean to offend anybody from China, but most of the stuff manufactured there is crap.
Let China build its new JP! I say, lets hit 'em now, because a conflict either way is coming between the US and China. Sino-American relations have been strained for decades. And the dragon's rise as an industrial pwr is predicated on theft and industrial inequality. As a nation, we should not trust China! I'm sure there are some REALLY good Chinese people, but they are govern by corrupt & pwr hungry tricksters.
Don't forget Ramen Noodles.
Turbine inlet temperature: 1650 K (1,377 °C (2,511 °F)) is a nice big thermal footprint for a guided missile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guizhou_WS-13
You me
You mean heat seeking missile to be more specific.
How can anyone take Pike seriously? I have heard more coherent ramblings from homeless men in Detroit.
All else being equal the Chinese slave labor economy is impotent without the ability to sell the USA Foxconn iPads and flat screen TVs
The Chinese build their airplane with stolen American technologies. Also they copied very much our advanced war airplanes. I wonder why we do business we international thieves and also have no respect for human right and no democracy?
You have to ask the elites why.
That ain't american copy, thats a copy of Su-PAKFA, and its way better than american. why would you copy second rate technology anyhow?
If its like anything else made in china it will fall apart after the first use anyway
Nice try. Chang'e 2 is still operational in deep space after over 2 years.
2 years is nothing short of a miracle for Chinese products.
almost all the body and the wiring harness of Boeing 747 8 is built in china...since the last 10 years...and AirBus is manufacturing entire planes in Cnina...stop airline travel...lol
With a cold war era Flanker fighter jet
a very clear landing shot
The engines are WS-13 turbofan developed for Chengdu JF-17 Thunder each rated over 20,000 lb thrust for a total thrust of over 40,000 lb.
a blurring frontal shot http://rojoygualda.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/img_shenyang_j31_front_view.jpg?w=450&h=284
It is a matter of fact that Jew-31 fighter jets can easily shoot down F-15 and F-22 fighter jets because the Chinese have American air force codes.
stop doing what Chinese do best. lying.
Yes, obviously totally factual and full of truthiness, no denying it.
A F-5 could take down that p.o.s.
Air force codes are always changed for security reasons. You should better than posting such stupid comments.
China, the people are great but i must say what a joke of a gov. Not saying we got it any better but all there military is stolen or used from other nations. Come up with some of your own ideal for once.
...just to remind you...wernher von braun...the German to get us off the ground...literally!!!
Being twin engined, the mid size J-31 jet is more apt for the carrier role as compared to the single engined F-35C.
are the hand me down Soviet carrier Chinese trying to give us carrier advice.... a ha ha ha ha ha. they say these guys don't know their place in the world and think they are like the best of everything they see in others.
Actually the number of engines doesn't dertermine whether a fighter is practical for carrier work. The number of engines may come into play on resilience but thrust to weight:ratio is good. Also the type of features and what is the 'mission design' of the fighter/bomber.
You may want to actually think before you type.
F-8s, A-4s, Sea Harriers, Etendard IVs/Super Etendards...all successful *single engined* carrier-based aircraft.
and with the democrats excuse me liberals excuse me progressives poised to slash defense budgets i.e. lockheed contracts and the F35 and other military budgets to pay for Obamacare the Chinese will push the US Navy back to San Diego harbor and when Iran sends its bottlerockets to Israel and Israel retaliates and CHina moves to secure its oil interest in Iran and Russia moves south to protect its oil interest in the Black Sea region the US and NATO will be powerless to defend its oil interest which isnt just for the military machine its also powers all the million of cars on the east coast and west coast of the USA which will no doubt vote for Obama thus enabling the USA's eminent military impotence.
Amazing run-on sentence. Really, kudos.
lolol thank you; caffeine is good.
"... thus enabling the USA's eminent military impotence". Not to be outdone by your impotence in word capitalization. Interesting observations, excuse me, rants, excuse me, political rants, excuse me, English-sounding verbal diarrhea, though.
do you really think obama is that stupid? stop making stupid comments on this forum. republicans, conservatives, racists, etc. are one dimensional. their brain only function one way.
Chinese air force J-11 jets have infrared search and track which can in theory locate F-22 jets by passive detection and tracking of heat.
cutting edge dude since the mid 1980's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLIR_Systems
IRST not FLIR
IRST is a generalized case of forward looking infrared (FLIR), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRST
let me know when you post something that is actually informational. lol..
Yeah, if I ever buy something made in China that works, I'll worry about that.
In theory, the Chinese can opener I bought the other day can open cans. In practice, it can't.
..../yawns...let me know when the chinese get a naval capacity that our 7th fleet can't completely and utterly destroy in one week. until then i'll be waiting to see if their long distance swimming team is any good.
I gotta hand it to bacos, the original one in the timeline, not the impersonators that came later. He has established complete dominance in this comment section while being outnumbered by Chinese operatives. Go freedom!
From China: Thank you, President Obama, for the nice new plane! We enjoy being your creditors. We will continue to expand our military as America will cut spending on theirs under Obama's second term!
Thanks Mitt for the Baine Capital jobs sent to China.
I bet Mitt makes a small profit on each plane the Chinese build.
Actually thank you Mr. Bush for spending your nation into ruin chasing non existent WMD in Iraq and for handing Pres O an economy in the crapper.
Most likely get their new engines from Obama's buddie that runs GE..
Thanks Mr. Bush for funding your 2 wars on the Chinese credit card. Mind you wars continue to cost money (eg. health care for vets) way into the future after the wars have come to an end. Thanks Mr. Bush for coming into office with a budget surplus and leaving this country in the financial debt and crater.
Well put, Cloves.
Bravo...u'r da man...!
Bush and his wars cost America around 5 trillion dollars over his 8 years in office. Obama and his free spending ways have already cost us 6 trillion in half the time. Bush at least went through Congress for his wars, Obama does an end around Congress on everything he does. I'm not defending Mittens, but I should wouldn't be praising Obama, if your eyes are open that is.
I meant I am not defending Bush, lol. Mittens, Obama, Bush, Mittens....ugh, it's dizzying!
I love when Dems talk about Bush and the WMDs but forget that CLINTON was the one the initially brought up the issue and made multiple addresses to the nation talking about Saddams WMDs...check out google and watch for yourself. Also google Kurds and gas..look at the images. Is chemical warfare not part of the WMD package?
I love it when people talk about Clinton in hopes that we will forget that it was Bush and his Chickenhawk party who pushed our two wars in the Middle East one of which was based on utter BS knowingly fed to us by the Bush/Cheney Whitehouse.
Wow, really, Obama is going to cut spending for the military in his 2nd term? I hadn't heard that from his campaign team. Well that does make all the difference in the world, where do I run to vote for Obama??? We spend more than the top 10 nations combined and we do not need a bigger military! In fact we need to quit wasting money and close 85% of the overseas bases, maybe keep South Korea and Kuwait. The others are just cash cows for the nations they are in.
Signed, 2 Combat Tour Vet
Not a worry for the USA
No kidding. Reminds me of a Chinese can opener I bought recently. It looks like a can opener, but it can't actually open cans.
This thing looks like a stealth fighter, but it's a cheap Chinese knock-off. Probably has a 40-year-old engine design, and the flight characteristics of a brick.
do not under estimate an enemy. a can opener can still stab people to death.
I am a Chinese and I hate China. Watch this vid for answers why:
If Arabs and Chinese inter marry, will their kids be called Charabs? Or Aranese?
There was once this blowup doll I tried to analyze. Get that analyze? Ha ha. But turned out it was made in China and blew up on my dck.
That's why I hate China.
Arabs and Chinese should have Charab babies.
I am Chinese and I approve this message.
Will our kids have big nasty beards?
Only the girls Jeng. Only the girls.
I am a Chinese and I hate China. When people ask me my race I say I am Taiwanese.
no one likes chinese.
some chinese also tell me they hate chinese.
ROFL....Finally someone who understands the dif. The other day at school my teacher talked about Taiwan and i was the only one that knew the dif. between the PRC and ROC.
Communism= something the hundreds of thousands of Americans died to stop
Americans dying= something that shouldn't happen, and when it does, those responsible need to die
those responsible= Chinese, Korea and possible Vietnamese.
LAST THING -am I the only one who realizes that the US is technically at war with china? Korean war never finished, China supports N. Korea US supports S. Korea....... just sumtin to chew on.
Designing a stealth fighter is not the same as discovering 1+1=2. Far more creativity and ingenuity is required. Being good at copying is not the same as being good at coming up with ideas. If it's so easy to design a stealth fighter, why didn't China with its 1.2 billion people, come up with the idea first? Why did they have to wait until after the F-35?
This is sort of like Samsung and the iPhone. They think they're all better because they can make a bigger and faster copy of something, but if it weren't for Apple, they would have nothing to copy FROM.
Especially when it comes to technology, there's a huge difference between stealing (copying) other people's ideas and coming up with your own. The fact that so many in China either cannot or choose not to recognize this fact says huge things about how far that culture still needs to come to be part of the world community.
We rearry don't like China na na...
people do not like hongkongese,
Clearly the design was stolen from the Chinese jet F-22 raptor, as we can see by their lines. However I believe that in terms of technology avionics and engines f-22 is well ahead. The china has for some time shown the world its military, the question is whether this military technology has superior quality without the trifles sold by china to worldwide.
Okay who ever is using my name "Jeng" to pretend that as if it was me who wrote that....I say good try.
I know a thing or two, about Kung fu...
It's this loser 14 year old female from Mexico. Just ignore her.
I rearry don't like Chi na na na...
Hilarious vid!
Doesn't worry me at all. If its anything like all Chinese manufactured goods it will break beyond repair inside a year.
HAAAAAAAAAAAA too true
You are imposter liars! Our planes are just as good or better!!!! Brace for our wrath!
I am a Chinese and I hate China. Watch this vid for answers why:
Look I am bacos too. Suck it America.
Yes, death to America! Go China! It's our birthday! Go China! We're winning!
I rearry don't like China na na.. we need to blow up China na naa...
Yes, death to America! Go China! It's our birthday! Go China! We're winning! On every front! Just like your dumb American actor, Charlie Sheen.
This is my favorite song
blow up chi na na na
We now have another geopolitical foe!
This is my favorite song
blow up chi na na na
You could never blow up China! We win again!
I am a Chinese and I hate China. I hate myself for living in it.
Romney cannot suggest to bomb us because he knows we're no Arabs we're Chinese
I think Chinese should mix with Arabs ethnically.
We would become more attractive.
Dude....the stink would be unbearable! Garlic and camel balls, yuck!
I'm surprised romney has not suggested bombing them yet!
Willard Mittens Romney is no match for CHINA!
Good thing Obama will win!
Go CHINA! Go OBAMA! Go bacos!
I am Mao. We cannot win this war with the Americans. We tried for 30 years to trick them, but they never trusted us. We should just give up and let them keep making gifts to humanity and amazing inventions. We still have our fireworks trade and plastic toys to keep us employed. I salute Americans because they are the one nation we could never beat.
I am a Chinese. I am aware that Mao died not from heart attack, but from 5 Tibetans who did him raw (without condom).
Suck-it, you are an imposter. You are not really a Chinese like me. Those comments are inappropriate, and also, completely retarded.
I am only kidding. I wish those Tibetans gave it to him with sand paper.
Still retarded, sweety.
Go CHINA! Go OBAMA!
I appreciate and endorse your efforts to embarrass bacos. Its obvious he got his dick tied up trying to get some Chinese hottie in his sack and now he is all bitter.
I am Chinese and I hate China.
I am a Chinese citizen and I see a lot of emotions in this chat sequence. We own you America, deal with it. And soon we will destroy you.
I am Mao's ghost. We can't beat the USA. They are too smart, and too good for us to beat. We must unconditionally surrender and abandon our claims on Tibet, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. This China must implode for the future of humanity.
Just kidding, I am really American who likes to troll the Chinese and make them happy thinking I agree with them once in a while.
"I am really American who likes to troll"
False - I know non-native English speaking grammar when I see it!
You Amer-can are sow razy. I bet my river dat you not rike rut I have to say. One order chicken fry rice coming up.
China Men say Illinois 5 times fast.
A combination of financial corruption, wars, obesity, drugs, hate, racism and so on... does not help a country to last. That's my final say.
Don't fun of me because I'm obese!!!!
Have you seen our Chinese people lately? They are fat like Americans once were. Now that Americans are aware of health risks, Chinese are getting fat and lazy. We must copy the Americans once again.
Go China!
We are going in the fat rotund direction.
Seriously, I don't hate America but I am just trying to give my opinion as a Chinese citizen. And from what I saw and what I see America's doing I really don't think that it is healthy and I don't think that it will help them to last long and to endure in this world. Just too many problems at the same time.
I am Mao, Jeng is one of my operatives. As my last wish I have bestowed upon Jeng knowledge of my demise at the hands..er.. the p3nises oft he Tibetans. IT was not a dignified death, but the truth must be known. Jeng, keep up your efforts against the Americans.
Go China!!!!!!
You guys are such jerks! China is great and they have every right to make a great airplane like this. Down with America!!!!!!!
I am Mao and I approve this fake comment.
What? I do love China!!!! I am half-Chinese!
how is china great? the only thing that is great is their great wall of china built a million years ago. and even then that isn't great. all they ever do is create knockoffs and built apple crap for pennies on the dollar. and let's not even talk about their human rights. you'd be a schmuck to say down with america if you are actually living in america.
The real wall of China is mostly rubble. The one you see today has been almost entirely remade with modern plaster. It's as fake as the rest of our Chinese society.
This is all just a distraction so Lo Pan will have time to find the girl with green eyes, appease the god of the west, and rule the universe from beyond the grave!
You've got a tongue, Dave. Ask her yourself!
See what I did there, baked? I called myself a Chinese imposter, which literally translates to me pretending to be Chinese. Thus, I am American.
Besides the fact that I am actually American, I am several things bacos will never accomplish: slim, successful, attractive, popular. Basically, I am everything you are not.
As someone who successfully completed college (you will not), take it from me, this type of activity will not help you lose your virginity. Being obese will not help, either.
Ni hao! Ohhhh u sound like secksay American man! U look for girlfriend??
Only if she is Chinese!
I am a Chinese who loves Mao.
It's obviously not very stealthy; I can see it right there.
Hahah.. Bacos you have lost your mind and you sound so defensive and so scared of.... China?? You really think that by closing your American businesses in China my country will collapse? Again get this please...We have been around since 221 BC and STILL!!
I am Mao's ghost. I have died from having 5 Tibetan p3nises inside me at once. It ruptured my colon, contrary to my claims of a heart attack. I thought you should know, as my last wish.
Haha! Foolish round eye! All your base are belong to us!
Jeng, why are Chinese so cowardly? I hate to say this. But it's us vs you, and we must survive. So prepare yourself.
I'll say it again! Prepare yourselves! To laugh at me!
go eat a shark and have only one child you turd
The People's Republic of China is only 63 years old. It's an experiment of sorts, this experiment is going badly. It will not last much longer. The traditional Chines culture is dead, only surviving in pockets in other countries which repatriated during the rise of the PRC. The PRC is not Chinese, in the sense that it has no connection with Chinese past or Chinese culture. It will have to copy Western culture because its culture is dead.
Makes Obama's decision to halt F-22 production look somewhat premature. If it is a naval fighter, it will be a generation ahead of the US Navy's F-18E/F and more air-superiority oriented than the F-35. Basically, it's an F-35 killer. The design 'homage' (=theft) from the F-22 and F-35 programmes in obvious – another triumph for Chinese cyber-espionage.
And the suggestion that this machine "won't become a threat until 2027" assumes the Chinese will be as sclerotic and as dilatory as the US in putting new tech into service; they won't. China is not tied in knots by the health and safety/environmental impact/legal bureaucracy that hamstrings the west.
Romney has said he will restart production of (presumably, improved) F-22s; expensive, but doable. As a Brit, I'd hate to influence the way you colonials vote, but I'll just mention that in passing.
You forgot somethng, Dan. The only reason we're so far ahead in military technology is the fact that China's currently financing a huge part of our spending deficit!
Don't listen to Lyndsie Graham. He's a chinese operative. He knows that China only buys our stocks for bragging rights even though we have no need for them.
And as a brit you haven't heard or know that Jimmy Carter killed the B-1 Bomber. Why? Because he was shown the replacement bomber for the B-1.... the B-2. If your the President (like Carter was) and know you have a limited budget for the Pentagon, wouldn't you turn the B-1 resources over to the B-2 project ? When Regan became President, he spent like a drunken sailor (increasing the debt by 189%) and built both the B-1 and the B-2. The smarter thing would have been to have increased the number of B-2's instead of the money wasted on the B-1 program.
But back to my point. Besides the F-22 killing pilots (oxygen sys.) if a replacement plane isn't already testing somewhere out in the deserts of the west. I'd be surprised. Have you heard of Aurora? Look for it in the skies over Nevada.
Aurora, *if* it exists, is a recce asset, not a fighter. The US has only one manned 'fighter' (actually, an attack aircraft) in development, the F-35; the Chinese have four (J-10, J-11/15, J-20 and J-31) not counting the low-tech JF-17. And those are just the programmes that they've chosen to reveal. If there are any 'secret' fighter programmes, they are more likely to be in China than the US.
The US Navy seems to be putting it's hopes in UCAVs, the USAF, with it's numerically inadequate F-22s backed up by a dwindling force of 20+ year-old F-15Cs, appears to be hoping it does not have to fight anyone with a modern airforce any time soon.
I hate to say this but the time is drawing near where we must choose. our survival or theirs. We can't be a nice guy. Just because we have a 21st century mentality, doesn't mean China does. They are stuck in the 1800s, mentally. To them the world is still ripe for conquest, even though to us it's set in stone and we are ready to begin the process of a global village. This incongruity will lead to inevitable and cataclysmic conflict. M y thoughts are, why wait until they are equally matched? Why not just strike while we have the advantage, economically, militarily, whatever. We see this coming a mile away. Why let our grand kids lose? Maybe theirs should lose. It's us vs them. I choose us. It's a basic human instinct. I have no shame in seeking my own survival against an attacker. I am human, we must fight China before they are ready.
Please bacos, quit showing us how ignorant you are! If being stupid was a virtue, you'd be a living saint!!!
We are ready to face you. It's us vs you, and we must survive. I am sorry. Prepare yourself.
Chinese commenter calling himself "George Patton", America must survive. It's us vs you. The free world must live, I am sorry China must lose.
Your nuts...
This is great news indeed! It now appears that Washington has lost it's monopoly on stealth fighters despite all the billions it spent on them. This world sorely needs to regain a balance of power since the right-wing thugs in Washington are so adamant on abusing theirs!!!
I really died from having too much anal s3x from Tibetans.
Some people here have made some good points. Technology can be copied. Economy can be sabotaged. What we need to deal with China is will power. Right now we have the advantage, but we lack the will to use it. Our will power will pull factories out of China and starve them of the funds needed to build their war machine, and the technology for that matter. Our will power will resist their economic sabotage, and put tariffs on them, even though it might cause a few short term hardships for us, it would completely and utterly cripple China. China's economy is still export driven. They don't have a country like the US. Though they pretend to. They all go to work in foreign factories, not Chinese factories.
We need our will in the fight ahead. We need to resist the Chinese propaganda influence in comment sections, telling us we can't fight back. Never listen to your worst enemy. And China is our worst enemy. I'd listen to them as much as I would listen to Osama Bin Laden give us advice on where to build a mosque.
No, our biggest problem is bad grammar. Just attempt to read bacos's paragraph above and we can all see that.
But then again, could anyone really be that dumb?
Frankly, I think this bacos kid is Chinese herself.
I love it when the spelling Nazi's come out to fog the issues, exposing the inner narcissism in themselves, while artificially boosting their frail and deteriorating egos!
Thank you, bacos. Spoken like a true Tea Partying nitwit! Are you one or have you just been brainwashed by the right-wing news media like so many others have? You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such nonsense above!!!
My Chinese goons posing as Americans make me proud.
Wow...that is epic, bacos! By the way, if I were you, I wouldn't restart my computer....ever. If you do, just picture me laughing. Adios, muchacha!
I will restart it and post afterward. Be right back.
I have restarted, my computer is fine. I think you should check yours 😀
Is it though?
I am Mao's ghost. I checked his computer and it is fine. By the way, I did not die like I said I did. I died from having 5 Tibetan pensises inside me at once. It caused a vein to rupture in my colon. Now you know the true, Chinese citizen Suck-It-Bacos.
US is going down the food chain, US will be copying Chinese technology in years to come, its inevitable, so best try be there Allie.
China is going down the food chain when we ruin their employment by closing 400 million people's factories.
What? Seriously, your grasp of the English language is so poor, bacos, that what you just said literally makes no sense - to anyone.
Keep up the good work Sheriff, you have these Americans believing you are American and not Chinese.
The Chinese are busy stealing Western/American Design Plans for Military Ships/Planes/Tanks/Missiles and nearly everything else, but copying it does not make it as good or as effective... They do NOT have the Engineering "Know How"... If something breaks or needs to be replaced or upgraded can they do it themselves or are the stuck and in need of stealing the upgrade plans to? These are Huge Technological Leaps for the Chinese and they don't have all the information, only some of it. Without having years of experience in Research & Development they are going to be in BIG Trouble when they need to design an "Add-On" or "Upgrade" because they won't know how or why...
We must seek out everything that Chinese are proud of, and ruin it. Just like they are trying to do to us.
Round eye, me make copy of you stealth fighter, now you make missle to shot it down. so solly.
Racist pig.
Technology only takes you so far. What this article does NOT point out is the potential numbers of these planes the Chinese will be able to produce. It won't matter if Chinese aircraft are only 75% capable as American versions; if the Chinese are able to produce 4 times (or more) as many aircraft due to vastly lower construction costs, they can simply overwhelm American forces with numbers. It is the Genghis Khan mentality.
With any luck we will cruise missile them as they are being built in factories in China.
All of China's plans depend on America continuing to look the other way for the next 10 years or so. The US doesn't have to keep making things in China, propping up their state socialism economy, and giving them free technology hand over fist. But so far we have been. It's up to our own will power to save us. Not our technology.
How about fist in your face, commie?
my cat name is STIMPY!!
I am Mao. Tibetans are doing me in hell. It hurts. Please send more Chinese to hell to help me from these Tibetans and their foot long schlongs.
Okay so let's try to understand what America has done so far
1. Taking a land from the Indians by using force
2. slavery
3. Going into wars with other countries from different continents and invading them
4. Corrupting the financial establishments
5. Encouraging the social destruction
6. Blaming the Muslims
7. Blaming China
I see now what we have to do. We must nuke China into oblivion before they nuke us.
By the way, we freed the slaves you Communist pig. You have yours in Communist slave-labor camps you hypocritical lying devil.
Jeng, why are Chinese so cowardly?
Jeng -STFU!!! Go back to your communist China where you belong. We do not need any commie in the USA. See how you like to live in your commie country where there is a bullet with your name on it.
"Encouraging the social destruction"
Which "social destruction?" Chinese speakers suck at English definite articles.
cannot argue with anything that you said. However,we can call China the fake replica nation. rolex, all watches. jerseys,foot wear, all clothing. They steal technology from just about every country on the face of the planet and then flood markets to ruin their economys Their jet technology is from Russia from the eighties, right out of the movie from clint eastwood firefox. And yet still forty years behind in the latest missile construction and next generation of fighters. your right about the usa and some of its faults but when you point a finger at someone else you have three pointing right back at you. Oh if you have gold in your possession you cannot sell it to anyone but the government of china yeah some freedom you have. just saying
Designed in America. Ripped, stolen, pilfered by the ruthless hord knows as the Communist Chinese. Will be used to defeat the Americans who have become as wicked as Nazis Germany. Freedom will have been defeated and burried.
China are the new Nazis, sorry. They are using Hitlers tactics. "I'm not invading you, you are invading my territory."
Made in China, funded by USA.
WASTEFUL TECHNOLOGY. No uses for EARTHQUAKE and HURRICANES to protect people.
They're not made to protect, they're made to kill!
American companies are falling over each other to do business in China even if that means transferring technology that can easily be channeled into Chinese weapon systems. Lenin was right. Capitalist will supply the rope that their enemies (communists) will use to hang them.
WOW! Way to proof read this article before posting online. Horribly written! The author should be fired.
It looks a lot like the F-35 because they've stolen a lot of our technology. This is how they keep their defense spending down in comparison to the US. They wait for us to pay for the technology and then they steal it. This allows them to spend more on bullets and band-aids.
I full agree with you Gordon but American Govt and Corporations(who actually control Govt) are the culprits here. When we started sending all our jobs to China , they got a workforce trained to build such products. Then it was just a matter of putting them together.
In my opinion, the sooner people learn to stop killing each other, the better it is for everyone.
We will fight you to the death. You aren't fooling us with your verbal kung fu. It's us vs you. We must survive, and since you make us make this choice, we choose us surviving over you.
Yes, except we will gladly give you bacos back as long as you agree to keep making fun of her as well as we Americans do.
Gosh, hang in there bro, the learning is happenen, another 10,000 yrs lets see how we be doing
does not look anything like ours.
.. if you are chinese paid to say that
I'm not a big detractor of China. As far as potential superpowers go the world could do worse. Clean up your human rights records, ease up on censorship, reform the system of government a bit... and I think they'd actually be fine.
But in regards to the jet.. looks like pretty much everything else China makes. i.e. copied from America.
China is next USSR SPENDING....
Wasteful military spending than EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT 2012.
Wisley is the next contestant on, "Who thinks we can fool Americans with Chinese comments."
These are the people we need to worry about, not the middleeastern goons.
You can be sure the American elite would use the Chinese military to put down any American uprising just as the Chinese elite would use the American military to put down any Chinese uprising.
Yang, we will face you and we must win. The free world must survive. I'm sorry but you will have to lose for the good of humanity. I hope you are emotiionally prepared for this inevtiable loss.
Actually it's people like you that we need to worry about
Absolutely mikey. China invests hundreds of millions in making sure that we aren't looking their way. They are actively in a cold war with us, and yet we act like middle eastern terrorists are the big threat. China is the big threat and has been for at least the last 20 years. The Chinese don't plan to fall like the USSR. They plan to catch us by surprise, instead of inspiring us to defeat them like the USSR did. The Chinese are trying to sabotage our resistance. They aren't just rising, they are trying to sink us at the same time.
The best thing we can do is put tariffs on Chinese made goods as that will be like a shock and awe of economic devastation for them. They are dependent on American factories for jobs. We should use this to our advantage, no matter how heartless it may seem. These sociopaths have no such concerns.
And yes, some people theorize that China has propped up middle eastern terrorism to draw our fire, draw our focus away from their activities, and wear us down financially.
Why are the Chinese such cowards that they take on fake American names and argue in support of China? We know Americans would never do this. Especially Americans named Joe, George, and Henry. Maybe second generation Chinese people would. But definitely, definitely, definitely not Americans who have no family connection with China.
This is an open question to the Chinese. Why do so many Chinese come here with Western/anglo saxon names and pretend to be American, and pretend to mislead us? Are you confident of your society? Do you believe in yourself? If you do you do not feel the need for such practices? Am I to believe that China is an insecure liar? Yes I do believe it.
@bacos are you like 12 or something?
Dan are you like Chinese or something?
Typically they use Hebrew names such as David, Jeremy, John, Jeff rather than Anglo Saxon names such as Scott, Ian.
Yang, you are one of them. You are the red herring, to distract us and make us think "oh that is the real Chinese guy, these other guys must be Americans." Nice try commie. We will win. You will lose.
Dude I am no China supporter. But stop making ridiculous comments. The only reason they take on Anglo names is because original Chinese names are hard for Americans to pronounce as evidence by names starting with X, Y, Z. So they do that for your own convenience and faster integration into American society. I have no problems with that.
IronMike you are as Chinese as Tibetan cattle prod torture. Don't make me embarass your further.
Can you imagine how many Chinese are laughing at how clueless bacos is? He probably is one, though...
Yes, man. Everyone is against you. Keep up the good fight. Tighten your tin foil hat, or they'll control your mind, too!
3 Type 052D Aegis+ destroyers which are 160 meters long 21 meters wide are under construction operational by 2014. These are the biggest warships ever built in China.
Hopefully they get taken out by cruise missiles in the factory.
You're not very bright, are you?
Joe, you are not very non-Chinese are you?
And there's your answer. No, he is not very bright at all.
All of which can be destroyed in ONE shot by any one of the ELEVEN American supercarrier assault groups. The United States Navy has 11 supercarrier assault groups - a very large nuclear supercarrier accompanied by guided-missile cruisers and destroyers, with two types of nuclear submarines unseen underneath.
How many supercarriers are possessed by the rest of the world including combined? None.
The "Chinese" aircraft carrier is actually the Varyag, laid down in 1985 by the old Soviet Union. The Varyag languished in port for two decades, a white elephant for Moscow. A few years ago, the Russkies sold the leaky hull to Beijing. The Varyag was in such poor repair it had to be towed to Chinese waters. The Varyag weighs 67,000 tons and carries about 40 aircraft; the latest United States Navy carriers weigh about 100,000 tons and carry about 100 aircraft. The Varyag is what the United States Navy would call a Kennedy-class aircraft carrier, the John F. Kennedy being the last conventionally powered carrier built by the United States. And the Kennedy was launched in 1967.
Your chinese intentions are obvious. Continuing to take on a Western name while arguing for them just inspires me to no end. I will spend my life fighting you.
Listen Moron. Argue with facts. I don't see you disproving any of the facts I posted about the might of the "Chinese" aircraft carrier versus the U.S. supercarriers and assault groups. So its obvious you are are a TBagger rabble rouser who has no idea how to argue... like your candidate Mutt Romney.
This is absolutely good news: knowing that China now has the ability to create stealth aircraft, if some day we are at war with China they can build OURS for us with money borrowed from THEM. Brilliant!
Why would we let worthless copycats build our sophisticated equipments. They were peasant dirt farmers 30 years ago. We taught them EVERYTHING they know about manfacturing, from start to finish. They took lazy shortcuts, and we had to send teams of experts to them time and time again to show them the right way to build things.
Why would you lead a copycat trash build your stuff for you? America taught them everything they know about anything.
Definitely not very bright....
Thank the Chinese for paper, gunpowder, guns, crossbows, steel forging, and the compass.
Joe is definitely Chinese.
The world thanked China for their inventions 1000s of years ago when they made them. Youv'e done nothing to contribute to the modern world. Your culture died with the birth of the PRC.
wow, you are the most ignorant person I have ever seen on this site.
Americans taught Chinese everything? how about Canadians, Brits, and Germans? How about all those western countries?
And should I remind you how many Chinese natives become Americans every year?
madawgg, you have a Chinese ego. You are unable to let us win because you feel shame for it. But you must, because there is nothing you can do about it.
And by the way, Chinese come here to steal technology. I don't trust them. They have given me ample reason not to trust them. When I see them in the work place or at college, I automatically assume they are here to steal. Call me a racist, I would call us suckers for letting them get away with so much this far.
College? You're a college kid? No wonder you are so clueless. Most likely another exchange student from China.
By the looks of it (your maturity level), you are in middle school.
Give me your mom's address so I can punch her in the mouth for creating a person even more stupid than she.
No offense, but I do not trust Chinese commenters here. The real people of China can't use the Internet. The only ones that make it out of China's great firewall are pro-communist propagandists, even if they claim to be neutral or pro-democratic.
Sorry Yang, I have to assume that everything you say is a lie. From personal experience.
You certainly have very little experience whatsoever......back to nap time.
joe = chinese = obvious
Hey Bacos, any "problem" we have with the Chinese are not problems the Chinese have caused. We have caused most of our own problems. Specifically, America is now filled with unintelligent morons such as yourself. Basically everyone on Earth is more intelligent than Bacos, and that includes groups like the "Indians" in the forest in Brazil that are unaware modern civilization even exists. Some day, when Bacos grows up, she will (see what I did there, watch him boil over now), by some horrible twist of fate, manage to reproduce, thus creating more little-Bacos, and the cycle continues and gets worse.
Of course, with a stupid name like "bacos," we all know you are Canadian. Since you're posing as an American ("and I know this from experience" – moron), I "don't trust anything you say." My lack of trust is due not because I think you may be a "liar," but because I know you are severely unintelligent.
The great news here team is that I've contact Little Baco's mom. I don't think she knew he got on her computer again. Unfortunately there probably is no father figure to give Bacos the butt kicking of a lifetime he needs, which is how I know someday we will have even worse Bacos 2.0 to deal with. I am confident, however, that with the current state of our schools, filled with other unintelligent little derps, that once Bacos gets to High School he will get the tail kicking of a lifetime. Sadly, he still will not learn. Survival of the fittest (or maybe the least dumb) is a real conundrum for some.
Surely this is a kid right? Because nobody over the age of 15, that also has a 4th grade education, would be uttering such stupidity.
And by the way loser, the first letter in your "name" is supposed to be capitalized. For example, if a nice Chinese girl came to America and wanted to pick a nice easy American name (so re-tards like Bacos could understand it), she would spell it Bacos and not bacos. Of course, she would never pick a name as stupid as "bacos" as she would most likely be superior in intelligence compared to you. I'll take a Chinese girl named "Sally" over a dumb American girl named "bacos" any day.
Just look at this imposter above, he's so Chinese it just screams "Chinese posting."
You right. I am a girl. I am 14. I am from mexico not stupid canada. So what. Shut up! I don't trust you! The Chinese scare me!
Wow...that is epic, bacos! By the way, if I were you, I wouldn't restart my computer....ever. If you do, just picture me laughing. Adios, muchacha!
Hahahahahahaha I am really Chinese spy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am a Chinese imposter. We will copy bacos's name to sabotage his true comments.
See what I did there, baked? I called myself a Chinese imposter, which literally translates to me pretending to be Chinese. Thus, I am American.
Besides the fact that I am actually American, I am several things bacos will never accomplish: slim, successful, attractive, popular. Basically, I am everything you are not.
As someone who successfully completed college (you will not), take it from me, this type of activity will not help you lose your virginity. Being obese will not help, either.
J-31 http://www.livemint.com/rf/Image-621×414/LiveMint/Period1/2012/11/03/Photos/J-31–621×414.JPG
F-35 http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/assets_c/2012/07/1st_Guard_F-35A_Jul_16_-_clouds_&_undersideSMITH@-thumb-560×388-160638.jpg
Whereas F-35 uses 1 big engine, J-31 uses 2 smaller engines.
Chinese virus site.
CNN can't even put two dashes together
Amigos norte americanos, não fiquem frustrados, a China chegou, e veio para ficar, É um fato, não sejam invejosos ,eles dominam tecnologia e vão assumir o mundo daqui pra frente, sejam educados e abram passagem, em breve meu país ,o BRASIL, vai passar vocês tambem, pois temos a politica externa justa, temos direitos humanos e temos recursos naturais , nos quais se agregarmos valores , podemos garantir o futuro de nosso pais sem abismo social por causa de nossas politicas publicas de distribuição de renda.
The problem is.... you guys aren't that smart. Resources are great, education takes time. Good luck to you though. :\
If I didn't believe you were really Chinese pretending to be supportive of China, I'd remind you that Brazil is in the same boat. Brazil isn't of the Chinese "superior" race. And China is Hitler part II.
"And China is Hitler part II"
China is a large country and Hitler was a person.
Another analogy is: Hitler was a normal sized person and bacos is obese.
Another: Hitler was intelligent enough to get away with mass genocide for a while and bacos is too dumb to pry his growing backside off of his computer chair.
Maybe China did not "steal" the design directly, but all of that data stolen from the U.S. stealth fighter contractors went somewhere. I am sure some of it landed on the hard drives of the guys who designed these planes.
Yeah, because the Chinese aren't known for their engineering skills. The only way they could build this is with stolen "data" landing on their "hard drives". I just lol'd my face off.
The Chinese aren't known for engineering. They are known for reverse engineering. Otherwise they would've came up with this plane in 1990, and we would have been copying it from China in 2012. I just lol'd my face off at China, and you trying to save face for China. Lol!
if you look at the design its almost a carbon copy of the F-22. They may be able to engineer well but stealth is a whole different level of engineering.
how does that look like F-22, just because they have two wings and two engines?
you are probably not an engineer but as an aerospace engineer I could assure you that designing a plane, even simply copying one, is not that easy.
Chinese have copied the Soviet Mig-17/19 before, it took them 20 years to finally finalize the design, with a full stock of Soviet blueprints!
Chinese are not retarded. The difficulty lies in every aspect of plane design, including aerodynamics (sorry, it just cannot be copied...), weigh distribution, internal design, material, and engine. And you tell me that Chinese steal the whole load of those? If that's the case, you are simply implying that Chinese have free access to our database and with your decent logical mind, you tell me that's the case?
Please, think about what you saying before posting anything...I'm tired of all those crap
I'm guessing your comment is meant to be sarcastic... but it's actually true.
China is known for making cheap knock-offs and low-quality mass-produced cr@p. They've done some impressive public works programs but.. military technology??
Amigos norte americanos, não fiquem frustrados, a China chegou, e veio para ficar, É um fato, não sejam invejosos ,eles dominam tecnologia e vão assumir o mundo daqui pra frente, sejam educados e abram passagem, em breve meu país ,o BRASIL, vai passar vocês tambem, pois temos a politica externa justa, temos direitos humanos e temos recursos naturais , nos quais se agregarmos valores , podemos garantir o futuro de nosso pais sem abismo social por causa de nossas politicaspublicas de distribuição de renda.
I don't trust the CHinese. We have no reason to trust Chinese who have copied so much of our technology and now are starting to threaten us with it. THis is not racism. This is me not trusting my worst enemy. I do not trust you Yang, I feel you will lie and say anything to make sure your country "wins." It is imperative that I do anything to stop you. It is me against you, and I choose myself and my people. We are wiling to fight to the death, I hope you are. We will end this planet before letting you run it.
ninguém está se sentindo frustrado como você disse, ou se sentir inveja, orar a Deus que os EUA nunca puxe bussiness do Brasil ou China você será tudo vai morrer de fome. idiota
Nobody is feeling frustrated as you said or feel envious, pray to god that USA never pull out all the bussiness of Brasil or China you will all gonna die of hunger. Idiot
how true
this aircraft looks familiar. Very f-22ish.
The first winged object using combustible propellant was created in China and was shaped like a black bird and used as a missle. This is the granddaddy of all jets.
Quit preparing Chinese fireworks with modern stealth aircraft. China's 1000s of year old claims to fame are getting a little stale. The China of today is only 63 years old and can't take credit for anything the previous China did. The People's Republic of China destroyed China's heritage, they waged war with the China that invented the fireworks. They defeated that China, they slit its throat and let its culture die. That China is dead. The new China is a massive stain upon humanity, and the world's largest mind control experiment.
Keep smoking rocks moron lol.....
The Chinese air force is ordering 500 J-20s and 2000 J-31s over the next few years to put tens of thousands of workers at work.
With any luck, we will destroy them all with cruise missiles while they are still in the factories.
Good numericla values. Now answer this – How many yuan went to party higher ups as kick backs? How many jailed after Tian an men square? Or have the censors prevented you from hearing about that that? Do yourself a favor and google the US disgrace of Kent State, then google Tian en men. Then tell me which government is at least trying to do a better job.
arm chair warriors the lot of ya. each and every one blinded by jingoism. no objectivity. no data. just bravado. pathetic. china has a stealth fighter. we have no idea what its capable of. it could be a paper airplane. it could pull its weight. is america more experienced and advanced? yes. but they started somewhere. once upon a time. with german scientists given amnesty after world war 2. and so china embarks on a similar road. the reason it looks like an F-22? my theory is convergent evolution. go look it up if you don't know what that means. otherwise. narrow minded, ignorant, bigoted, pathetic naysayers be damned.
It's people like you that aren't going to do the world any good by assuming such things like aviation design is reaching its max. All it takes is one more big idea to get the ball rolling again, not that it has stopped. The Chinese have copied Russian designs too: J-15 (Su-33), J-11 (Su-27SK), ect. It even happens in the commerical aviation industry... We put all of this money into R&D and it gets ripped off. I would like to know where the moles are in the companys that design these planes.
a.ri is Chinese.
It is cheap to say that China copied from you something unless you show us the prove that we did....But, how American technology didn't you in fact copied everything from Germany after the second WW? And who was really innovating the American military industry? Most of them were German engineers working for Hitler.
Whosoever says that China copies things from America alone is utterly wrong. Whosoever says they copy from Western nations...that would be more correct.
The Chinese air force is ordering 500 J-20s and 2000 J-31s over the next few years to put tens of thousands of workers at work.
Cheap? True.
Those former Hitler scientists were offered a choice of prison or becoming u.s. citizens and working for America...guess what they chose? So they became u.s. citizens and went on to do their fancy science work...leading in various industries including NASA...
actually China has been STEALING wesern technology for a while now, remember IPOD and IPAD funny how china had the same design and wasnt authorized by APPLE. Thats all china does is manipulate and cover things up thats why they are still trying to steal our technology, but those who steal ideas are the same as those with no foundation for having better technology. The only reason China is what is is today is because of the USA. Nobody else will lead in technology. The only thing we need to do is bring back AMERICAN JOBS so that we can put a choking on China, Korea, and Tiwan and start making better quality electronocs and other products here in the USA!
Proof?...Look at the very Stealth aircraft in this article!!! MANY of the lines of design are those of the american jets. It only takes a look!
China copies technology more than the rest of the world put together. It's not easy to say, they shamelessly brag about it. And German technology, the v2 rocket, was not everything to us. We did much more than they did. That v2 rocket China also has. So we are even in that respect. We did a lot more with it, that is for certain.
@Jeng. You must be kidding... China is very busy hacking into whatever Western/American Companies computers it can get into. By doing this it saves them Billions of Dollars in Research and Development costs and countless hours of real physical work... China has been doing this for many years and everyone knows it to be true... China does NOT abide by International Patent Laws & Business Laws and China even has more than 22 unofficial Apple Stores (many of these fake stores are in Kunming) selling Apple "knock off's" like the I-Pod and I-Pad (Chi-Pod & Chi-Pad). China is in an incredible technological boom right now and it is getting most of its design plans/technology from Western Companies... Why pay for it when you can get it for free on the Internet or hacking into a computer to steal the information and take data... Much of what the Chinese produce has been duplicated and copied from other peoples hard work... You may publicly deny this, but you know that it is TRUE...
Jeng is a Chinese misinformation specialist. Along with the TOm, bobbies, rickies and georges here supporting China.
china is a fraude they copy everything before the inovation become a product if you go to 5av at night you will see communist party serogate taking pic of new luxury goods. and u can get nothing from them just 99 cents useless product .
they r busey collecting american dollars for themselves .look at chineese restaurant or constraction co or any business runing by chineese if u find ather nationality working for them .....wake up america