text:
MR. DAVID GREGORY: This Sunday, a special hour devoted to Afghanistan and
America's fight against terrorism. The president reveals his long-awaited
war plan.
PRES. BARACK OBAMA: It is in our vital national interest to send an
additional 30,000 U.S. troops to Afghanistan.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: The debate is intense; Democrats divided...
SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD (D-WI): I do not believe more American lives should be
risked for a war that no longer serves our most pressing national
security interests.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: ...and Republicans skeptical about a timeline for
SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): It's got to be one or the other. It's got to be
the appropriate conditions or it's got to be an arbitrary date. I--you
can't have both.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: This morning we will tackle the tough remaining questions:
How will winning be defined? Does a withdrawal date give the enemy an
advantage? Will this strategy make Americans safer from terrorists? How
will the war be paid for at a time of record national debt? And what are
the consequences of failure for the region and for this president? With
us, the two key officials responsible for implementing this strategy:
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.
Then, the Republican view: the ranking member of the Senate Armed
Services Committee and former GOP presidential candidate, Arizona Senator
John McCain.
Finally, analysis from Tom Friedman of The New York Times and Bob
Woodward of The Washington Post.
MR. DAVID GREGORY: But first, here they are, Secretary of Defense Robert
Gates, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Welcome, both of you, back to MEET THE PRESS.
SEC'Y ROBERT GATES: Thank you.
SEC'Y HILLARY CLINTON: Thank you.
MR. GREGORY: So much of the heat of this debate this week was not about
the going in, but about the getting out. This is what the president said
about the scope of this mission.
(Videotape, December 1, 2009)
PRES. BARACK OBAMA: These additional Americans and international troops
will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces
and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in
July of 2011.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: Secretary Gates, is this a deadline?
SEC'Y GATES: It's the beginning of a process. In July 2011, our generals
are confident that they will know whether our strategy is working, and
the plan is to begin transferring areas of responsibility for security
over to the Afghan security forces with us remaining in a tactical and
then strategic overwatch position, sort of the cavalry over the hill. But
we will begin to thin our forces and begin to bring them home. But the
pace of that, of bringing them home, and where we will bring them home
from will depend on the circumstances on the ground, and those judgments
will be made by our commanders in the field.
MR. GREGORY: Regardless of the circumstances, though, what you're saying
is that withdrawal will take place at that point.
SEC'Y GATES: It will begin in July of 2011. But how, how quickly it goes
will very much depend on the conditions on the ground. We will have a
significant number of forces in there...
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEC'Y GATES: ...for some considerable period of time after that.
MR. GREGORY: You both, of course, this week have taken tough questions
about this issue of a deadline and whether that's a bad thing to signal
up front. Three years ago, Secretary Gates, you were asked on Capitol
Hill about another war, another debate, another timeline. That was about
Iraq. And, Secretary Clinton, you were asked as senator back in 2005 the
same question about Iraq and timelines for withdrawal. This is what you
both said back then.
(Videotape, December 5, 2006)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Do you believe if we set timetables or a
policy to withdraw at a date certain, it would be seen by the extremists
as a sign of weakness, the moderates would be disheartened and it would
create a tremendous impediment to the moderate forces coming forward in
SEC'Y GATES: I think a specific timetable would give--would essentially
tell them how long they have to wait until we're gone.
(End videotape)
(Videotape, February 20, 2005)
SEC'Y CLINTON: We don't want to send a signal to the insurgents, to the
terrorists, that we are going to be out of here at some, you know, date
certain. I think that would be like a green light to go ahead and just
bide your time.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: That was about Iraq. Why are your views different when it
comes to Afghanistan?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Because we're not talking about an exit strategy or a
drop-dead deadline. What we're talking about is an assessment that in
January 2011 we can begin a transition, a transition to hand off
responsibility to the Afghan forces. That is what eventually happened in
Iraq. You know, we're going to be out of Iraq. We have a firm deadline,
because the Iraqis believe that they can assume and will assume
responsibility for their own future. We want the Afghans to feel the same
sense of urgency. We want them to actually make good on what President
Karzai said in his inaugural speech, which is that by five years from now
they'll have total control for their defense.
MR. GREGORY: But this is a time certain. Secretary Gates, you just said
that the withdrawal will begin regardless of conditions, the pace of
withdrawal could be affected. This is a date certain. And when it came to
Iraq, you thought that was a bad idea.
SEC'Y GATES: I was opposed to a deadline in Iraq and, if you'd listen to
what I said, that that was a date certain to have all of our forces out
of Iraq. I'm opposed to that in Afghanistan as well. But I believe that
there is an important element here of balancing, sending a signal of
resolve, but also giving the Afghan government a sense of urgency that
they need to get their young men recruited, trained and into the field
partnering with our forces and then on their own. And so I think that the
beginning of this process in July 2011 makes a lot of sense, because the
other side of it is open.
MR. GREGORY: What kind of casualties should Americans be prepared to
suffer in Afghanistan with this new strategy?
SEC'Y GATES: Well, the tragedy is that the casualties will, will probably
continue to grow, at least for a time being. This is what we saw in the
surge in Iraq. But it's because they're going into places where the
Taliban essentially have controlled the territory and upsetting the apple
cart, if you will. And what, what, what happened in Iraq is what we
anticipate will happen here; we'll have an increase in casualties at the
front end of this process, but over time it will actually lead to fewer
MR. GREGORY: Secretary Clinton, what happens if the strategy isn't
working in 18 months time?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Well, first, David, we obviously believe that it will
work. We've spent a lot of time testing all the assumptions, our
commanders have a, a lot of confidence that it will work. But the
president has said, and we agree, that we will take stock of where we are
every month. We're not going to wait, we're going to be looking to see
what's happening. Now, we've had the Marines that were sent in--remember,
this president inherited a situation where we had basically lost ground
to the Taliban. The war in Afghanistan, unfortunately, was lost in the
fog of the war in Iraq. And the president put in troops when he first got
there and then said, "But let's make sure we know kind of where we're
headed and how to get there." And so we're going to continue to evaluate
as we go. But the Marines went into Helmand province last July and, you
know, Bob can tell you that the reports are that they're making real
headway. So we have confidence in this strategy.
MR. GREGORY: The, the issue of what was inherited came up this week. The
president very pointedly said, Secretary Gates, that reinforcements that
were requested of the Bush administration on your watch were not
provided, and that he provided them when he came into office. Is that
SEC'Y GATES: There was, there was, throughout my, my time as secretary of
Defense under President Bush, an outstanding request from General
McKiernan. And as Admiral Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, testified repeatedly, we just--because of the commitment of forces
in Iraq, we did not have the, the ability to meet the resource needs in
MR. GREGORY: So you don't have any problem with that statement?
SEC'Y GATES: I--no, there was an outstanding troop request, and on my
MR. GREGORY: Let's talk about the mission, and I want to chart a little
bit of the evolution of the president's public statements about this.
Going back to July of 2008, during the campaign, when he talked about
America's commitment to Afghanistan. Watch this.
(Videotape, July 15, 2008)
PRES. OBAMA: The Afghan people must know that our commitment to their
future is enduring, because the security of Afghanistan and the United
States is shared.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: And yet Tuesday when he spoke to the country, he seemed to
dismiss the notion of what he called an open-ended commitment or an
"enduring commitment" to Afghanistan, saying this.
(Videotape, December 1, 2009)
PRES. OBAMA: Some call for a more dramatic and open-ended escalation of
our war effort. I reject this course, because it sets goals that are
beyond what can be achieved at a reasonable cost and what we need to
achieve to secure our interests.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: Secretary Clinton, has the president concluded, as president
now, that in Afghanistan the war on terrorism needs to be downsized?
SEC'Y CLINTON: No. And, and I think, David, there is no contradiction
between the two statements you just played. We will have an enduring
commitment to Afghanistan. We're going to be putting in combat troops. We
are going to be joined by 42 partners. We just got a commitment of an
additional 7,000 troops from our NATO-ISAF allies. And we will most
likely be continuing once our combat responsibilities have ended in
whatever support for the Afghan security forces in terms of training,
logistics, intelligence, that will enable them to do what they need to
do. At the same time, we will have an ongoing civilian commitment to
Afghanistan. So yes, we don't have an open-ended combat commitment. We
think we have a strategy that will create the space and time for the
Afghans to stand up their own security forces and take responsibility.
But we're not going to be, you know, walking away from Afghanistan again.
We, we did that before, it didn't turn out very well. So we will stay
involved, we will stay supportive, and I think that's exactly the right
MR. GREGORY: But if you have a situation where you're going to begin the
withdrawal of troops regardless of conditions on the ground, some critics
see that as weakness and a bad sign to the enemy. One of your former
colleagues, the former Vice President Dick Cheney, said this to Politico
this week about the president's speech: "Cheney said the average Afghan
citizen `sees talk about exit strategies and how soon we can get out,
instead of talk about how we win. Those folks ... begin to look for ways
to accommodate their enemies,' Cheney said. `They're worried the United
States isn't going to be there much longer and the bad guys are.'" And if
you look at some of the response from Pakistan, the very country we need
to get to the baddest of the guys who are over in their country with
al-Qaeda, there's this, as reported by The New York Times: "Washington's
assertion that American troops could begin leaving in 18 months provoked
anxiety in Afghanistan and rekindled long-standing fears in Pakistan that
America would abruptly withdraw, leaving Pakistan to fend for itself.
Both countries face intertwined Taliban insurgencies. `Regarding the new
policy of President Obama, we're studying that policy,' [Pakistani Prime
Minister Yousaf] Gilani said. `We need more clarity on it, and when we
get more clarity on it we can see what we can implement on that plan.'"
Is what former Vice President Cheney's warning about, is that already
starting to take place in terms of the attitude in Pakistan?
SEC'Y GATES: Well, first of all, we're not talking about an abrupt
withdrawal. We're talking about something that will take care--take place
over a period of time. We--our commanders think that these additional
forces, and one of the reasons for the president's decision to try and
accelerate their deployment, is, is the view that the this extended surge
has the opportunity to make significant gains in terms of reversing the
momentum of the Taliban, denying them control of Afghan territory and
degrading their capabilities. Our military thinks we have a real
opportunity to do that. And it's not just in the next 18 months, because
we will have significant--we will have 100,000 forces, troops there, and
they are not leaving in July of 2011. Some, handful, or some small
number, or whatever the conditions permit, will begin to withdraw at that
The piece of this people need to keep in mind that's different from Iraq
is our need to communicate a sense of urgency to the Afghans of their
need to begin to accept responsibility. The Iraqis, after it was clear
that the surge was working, clearly wanted us out of the country as fast
as possible. In the case of the Afghans, there are those--not everybody,
and not a lot of the people--but there are those who would love to have
the United States Army stay there in this very rough neighborhood
indefinitely. And we want to communicate the message we will not provide
for their security forever. They have to step up to that responsibility.
MR. GREGORY: The--it seems to be an important point. Beyond July of 2011,
there's going to be a significant amount of, of U.S. troops there.
There's going to be about 100,000 once this surge is finished. How many
more years should Americans expect to have a significant force presence
in Afghanistan?
SEC'Y GATES: Well, I think that, you know, again, I don't want to put a
deadline on it, OK? But, but I think that just picking up on President
Karzai's statements in his inaugural address, he talked about taking over
security control in three years of important areas of Afghanistan, and
all of Afghanistan in five years. I think that we're in that, we're in
that neighborhood.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEC'Y GATES: Two to three to four years. But again, during that period we
will be, just as we did in Iraq, turning over provinces to Iraq--Afghan
security forces, and that will allow us to bring the number of our forces
down in a steady but conditions-based circumstance.
MR. GREGORY: We are also, in a more covert way that's not very well kept
as a secret, at war in Pakistan as well. The real al-Qaeda figures, Osama
bin Laden, Mullah Omar, the Haqqani network, the baddest of the bad are
in Pakistan and not Afghanistan. What are the Pakistanis prepared to do
to destroy them?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Well, David, I think what we've seen over the course of
this year is a sea change in attitude by the Pakistanis. If we'd been
sitting here a year ago and you'd asked what they were going to do, there
wouldn't be much of an answer. Now we can say they're beginning to go
after the terrorists who are threatening their very existence as a
sovereign nation. They've had two military campaigns in the space of the
last eight months, and they are making real progress. What we are
discussing and consulting with them over is how all of these groups are
now a threat to them. There is a syndicate of terrorism, with al-Qaeda at
the head of it. So we're doing everything we can to support them in what
is a really life or death struggle. I mean, they just blew up--the
terrorists just blew up a mosque in Rawalpindi filled with military
officers. These terrorists, with al-Qaeda's funding, encouragement,
training, equipping, is going right at the Pakistani government.
MR. GREGORY: Can, can a mission be accomplished without capturing Osama
bin Laden?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Well, I, I really believe it's important to capture and/or
kill Osama bin Laden, Zawahiri, the others who are part of that
leadership team. But certainly, you can make enormous progress absent
MR. GREGORY: I want to talk a little bit about history, a history you
know well, Secretary Gates, with your work in this region going back
decades. This was the editorial in The New York Times days after the
Soviet invasion in 1979, I'll put it up on the screen: "Moscow's Backyard
Quagmire. By intervening so strongly on behalf of a wobbly Afghan client,
the Soviet Union appears to be sinking deeper into a backyard quagmire."
A lot of questions about the Afghan client today. You have said, along
this process, you were worried about putting more troops in. You said the
Soviets had 110,000 committed there and they couldn't win. Why is it
different now? Isn't this mission impossible?
SEC'Y GATES: It's pretty straightforward. First of all, the Soviets were
trying to impose an alien culture and, and political system on, on
Afghanistan. But more importantly, they were there terrorizing the
Afghans. They killed a million Afghans. They made refugees out of five
million Afghans. They were isolated internationally. All of those factors
are different for, for us, completely different. We have the sanction of
the U.N. We have the sanction of NATO. We have the invitation of the
Afghan government itself. We have 42 military partners in Afghanistan. We
are supporting and protecting the Afghan people. One of the central
themes of General McChrystal's strategy is to reduce and keep civilian
casualties low. And, and so it's a, it's a very different situation. And
what General McChrystal persuaded me of was that the size of the
footprint matters a lot less than what they're doing there. And the new
strategy that he's put in place, in terms of how we deal with the Afghans
and how we behave, I think will make a big difference.
MR. GREGORY: I want to bring it back home and ask you a very important
political question, Secretary Clinton. You have heard the reaction from
the Democratic Party; liberals using terms like "echoes of Vietnam," that
this is risky, that this is a gamble. Vietnam War protester Tom Hayden
talked about the immorality of fighting for regime like--that is
currently in place in Afghanistan. You've been on the campaign trail
running for president, you're a former senator, you know the politics of
your party well. What is the message of this president to those Democrats
who are not on board? And can you effectively prosecute this war without
the base of the party behind it?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Well, David, I think it's clear that anyone who has
followed this that President Obama has done what he thinks is right for
the country. He is well aware of the political concerns raised that you
have just described. I think he deserves a lot of credit for not only
delving into this and asking the hard questions, but coming to a decision
that has both political and economic costs, but which he has concluded is
in our vital national security interest.
I think that we have to look more broadly at what has gone on in
Afghanistan. Yes, are there problems with the current government? Of
course there are, as there are with, you know, any government. We deal,
we deal with a lot of governments that are hardly poster children for,
you know, good governance. But look at what has happened. When President
Karzai came into office, there were about a million kids in school and
they were all boys. There are now seven million and they're 40 percent
girls. There's all of a sudden a wheat harvest because of better seeds
and fertilizer that is giving people, once again, income from their land.
There are so many positive examples of what has changed. Of course
there's a lot of work to be done. I mean, good grief, this country was
devastated by three decades of the most brutal kind of war. It's
recovering. And as Bob as said, you know, they really do want a different
MR. GREGORY: But is the, the politics of this, the cost of this, will
there have to be a war tax? What will you do to keep the Democrats in
line on this?
SEC'Y CLINTON: Well, the president has said he will make sure that the
cost of the war is accounted for in the budget. Of--it is, it is an
additional expense. Everybody knows that. And we have so many important
demands here at home. We would not be pursuing this strategy if we did
not believe it was directly connected to the safety of our people, our
interests, our allies around the world. And I just hope that a lot of my
friends who are raising questions, Bob and I heard them when we were up
there testifying, will really pay attention to, you know, the rationale
behind the president doing this.
MR. GREGORY: Secretary Gates, you are a hard-nosed realist about this
region and about this struggle, going back decades. Is failure an option
in Afghanistan?
SEC'Y GATES: No, I don't think it can be, given the, the nature of the
terror network that Secretary Clinton referred to. But we will be
monitoring our progress and, and be willing to adjust our strategy if
there are, if there are issues. We're not just going to plunge blindly
ahead if it, if it becomes clear that what we're doing isn't working. I
mean, there are some other alternatives. We, frankly, didn't think that
the outcome of the long discussions that we had was that those, those
outcomes were probably less likely to work than what we've chosen. We
think and recommended to the president a strategy that, that he has
decided on, that we believe, all of us--including the uniform military
and our commanders in the field--offers the very best chance for our
success. And we're--and that's what we're going to count on.
MR. GREGORY: But you say failure's not an option. The president has said,
"We will fight this fight and fight it hard only up to a certain point."
SEC'Y GATES: And then we begin to transfer the responsibility to the
MR. GREGORY: Right.
SEC'Y GATES: And a lot can happen in 18 months.
MR. GREGORY: You said, when you were last on this program back in March,
that you considered it a challenge, the notion that you might stay on for
the entire first term as secretary of Defense. What do you say now?
SEC'Y GATES: I'd say that's a challenge.
MR. GREGORY: Will you see this war through, the withdrawal of troops
SEC'Y GATES: I, I think that's probably up to the president.
MR. GREGORY: All right, thank you both very much.
SEC'Y CLINTON: Thank you, David.
MR. GREGORY: Our special hour on Afghanistan continues. Up next, an
exclusive interview with the ranking member on the Armed Services
Committee, Republican Senator John McCain. Then analysis on what it all
means with Bob Woodard of The Washington Post and Tom Friedman of The New
York Times, right here on MEET THE PRESS.
MR. GREGORY: Our special hour on Afghanistan, the war plan and beyond,
continues with Senator John McCain after this brief commercial break.
MR. DAVID GREGORY: We're back with Senator John McCain.
Welcome back to the program. A lot to discuss here, a lot to react to.
Let's get to your big issue this week, the issue of withdrawal. You heard
Secretary Gates say here today, July 2011 is a date certain for the
beginning of the withdrawal. Do you have a problem with that?
SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): Yes. But let me also say, David, I support the
president's decision. I think it's the right decision. I think that it
can lead to success. It's a tough decision on his part to send young
Americans into harm's way. As Secretary Gates said, casualties will go
up, tragically. But I think he made the right decision, and I think that
he is--the reality is he's not only tough decision to send young
Americans into harm's way, but his--significant elements of his own party
are, are opposed. So I strongly support the decision.
The problem with the date certain now is that not only there's a problem
with that itself, but there's a, a significant contribution between what
Secretaries Gates and Clinton were saying and what the president's
MR. GREGORY: Contradiction. Contradiction.
SEN. McCAIN: Contradiction...
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
SEN. McCAIN: ...between what--and what his spokesperson said just a
couple of days ago when he said the president said--he said--I'm directly
quoting the president, that "withdrawal date is engraved, chiseled in
stone, and I am the chiseler." Now, that's pretty straightforward. So
what has that done? It has caused reaction such as you saw with the prime
minister of Pakistan. Policymakers throughout the region--Pakistan,
India, Iran, as well as Afghanistan--are now trying to figure out whether
they can really go all in and support this effort, or do they have to
accommodate? Because if we leave, they have to stay in the region. So it
needs to be resolved. It needs to be resolved in this way, that we will
not leave on a date certain. But we have every confidence--I do, I have
every confidence within a year to 18 months we can achieve significant
success. We were able to do that in Iraq. And we will leave and not allow
the Taliban to make comments like Taliban prisoners are saying, "You've
got the watches and we have the time." We don't want to send that
MR. GREGORY: But the president responded to, to this week, privately and
during, during his address to the nation, saying if you'd just use that
logic, then that's the rationale for forever war. Then you don't ever
SEN. McCAIN: Well, the rationale for war is to break the enemy's will.
That's the whole rationale for war. Do you break the enemy's will by
saying, "We're going to be there," or send a message we're going to be
there for a year and a half or so and then we're going to begin to leave,
no matter what the circumstances are? Or do you tell them, "We're going
to win and we're going to break your will, and then we're going to
leave"? That's, that's, that's a huge factor in the conduct of war...
MR. GREGORY: All right, on that...
SEN. McCAIN: ...especially when you're conducting counterinsurgency.
MR. GREGORY: Earlier this fall, I did an interview with you here in
Washington on this topic.
SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: And I want to show you what you said at that point and ask
you about it.
(Videotape, October 1, 2009)
SEN. McCAIN: I am convinced we could start to see signs of success in a
year to 18 months.
MR. GREGORY: And if we don't, at that point?
SEN. McCAIN: Well, then, I think we have to make a decision at that time
as--if, if we don't.
(End videotape)
MR. GREGORY: How is that different from what you said to what the
president is saying now?
SEN. McCAIN: Well, I'm saying that we have to make a decision as to what
adjustments we need to make to win. The--if we are not succeeding with
one strategy, then obviously we have to adjust that strategy. But as I
said, I am confident, as I said in our interview then, a year to a year
and a half, at great tragic loss of brave young Americans, we will be
able to succeed and we will be able to prevent Afghanistan from returning
to a base of, of al-Qaeda and attacks on the United States of America and
our allies; not to mention what the Taliban subject to the, the, the
Afghan people, too, which is immense cruelty.
MR. GREGORY: Americans knew why they were going to war in Afghanistan
after 9/11.
SEN. McCAIN: Yes.
MR. GREGORY: Today it's, it's really much more of a question mark, if you
look at the polling.
SEN. McCAIN: Yes.
MR. GREGORY: Americans do not support this.
SEN. McCAIN: Yes.
MR. GREGORY: What is the likelihood...
SEN. McCAIN: Could I, could I just interrupt?
MR. GREGORY: Yeah. Yeah.
SEN. McCAIN: The president, as I expected, with a very effective speech
and an appropriate venue at West Point, I think, has also moved those
numbers in--more favorably in the right direction.
MR. GREGORY: What is the likelihood of another terrorist attack on
America from that region, Afghanistan, Pakistan, as things stand now?
SEN. McCAIN: I think that the areas around Pakistan-Afghan border is
still a place where al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist elements can
hang out. But I think they're on the defensive, and it's a far different
situation than if we left and allowed them to restore these safe havens
without any threat being mounted against them. And not to mention the
Pakistani nuclear...
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEN. McCAIN: ...inventory and all the implications of that.
MR. GREGORY: To those who oppose this war, there are challenging a couple
of assumptions. The assumption that Hamid Karzai, the president of
Afghanistan, who the United States says is corrupt, who stole the
election, who has not proven capable of standing up a security force, who
cannot secure most of the country, is somehow going to become a different
leader, and that Afghanistan becomes a different country. That Pakistan,
which supported the Taliban for years, which is still apparently hedging
its bet about going after the Taliban and the baddest of the bad in the
tribal areas, somehow becomes a different country. Why do you assume
those two things happen?
SEN. McCAIN: Well, first of all, because when we started the surge,
Maliki was--there was serious talk about having to replace him.
They--he--there was no government in Iraq when the surge started, it was
just sectarian violence. Governments succeed with success. When you are
able to provide an environment of security to clear--the clear, hold and
build strategy, then governments do improve. They're not all perfect. One
of the reasons why we have the problems we have is because of the
corruption, and one breeds the other.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, as Secretary Clinton pointed out,
Pakistanis have been doing much better. Much better. They've been doing
everything we want? No. But they've been improving, much better. There
are really internal, domestic politics that frighten me, in a way,
because of the, the lack of Zardari's immunity expiring and, and, and all
of those aspects of it. But I believe if we send a clear signal, we're
going to do what's necessary, we are not leaving until we succeed--and
that does not mean an open-ended commitment, it means we will adjust our
strategy over time. But to send the message that you are going to leave
at a certain date is not the way to convince the enemy that you're there
to beat them.
MR. GREGORY: You talk about Pakistan. Secretary Gates says it has been
years since there has been solid intelligence about the whereabouts of
Osama bin Laden.
SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: How important is he to getting to getting this mission? Why
don't we have better intelligence? And is it the Pakistanis' fault? Do
they know where he is, and are we not finding out about it because of
SEN. McCAIN: Look, I, I know as much as you do, OK? I, I--everybody that
I know and every time I'm in the region I ask that question of people who
are knowledgeable. They say that he moves back and forth. They say he has
concentric circles of people who, who warn him. If you look at that
terrain, it's the most difficult and rugged terrain in the world. But he
is also unable to establish a base for training and equipping people who
would come to--and do--make attacks on the United States and our allies.
Yes, I think it's important to get him. I think we need to get him, but
don't think that al-Qaeda could not flourish without him if we give them
a safe haven in Afghanistan or Pakistan.
MR. GREGORY: More broadly, when you evaluate the president's performance
and his approach to this...
SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: ...do you agree with some who say he's made a decision to
downsize the war on terror, and does that make you uncomfortable?
SEN. McCAIN: I don't, I don't have any indication of that. As I said, I
respect the decision and support the decision he made. It's behind us
MR. GREGORY: Right.
SEN. McCAIN: But that long, drawn-out process was not helpful to our
friends and our enemies, or to, or to...
MR. GREGORY: Do you think that helped the enemy, that it took as long as
it did?
SEN. McCAIN: Oh, I don't, I don't think it--I think it, it, it made
our--because I heard from them all the time, it made our allies very
uneasy as to what we were going to do. And it wasn't just the length of
time; the leak of secret cables from our ambassador in Kabul saying we
shouldn't send reinforcements, that leads to a certain turmoil. But look,
that's behind us. The president made the decision, I support it.
MR. GREGORY: I want to, if we could, do an express round of the Straight
Talk Express on some other news items. So if we can just hit these things
rather quickly, because there's a lot of other news as well. Is there a
jobs bill that you could support?
SEN. McCAIN: If it has to do with tax cuts and small business creation,
corporate tax cuts, small business tax cuts, absolutely. And the
housing--any effort we can towards reducing the problems of--in the
housing--home loan mortgage market. Forty-eight percent of the home loan
mortgages in my state of Arizona are underwater. That's unacceptable and
it's a failure on the part of TARP.
MR. GREGORY: Is stimulus working?
SEN. McCAIN: No. Course not.
MR. GREGORY: You don't think it is.
SEN. McCAIN: Well, I mean, I guess if you throw enough money at anything
there's some result, but it's certainly not--look, by their own figures,
the administration said unemployment would be at 8 percent.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
SEN. McCAIN: It's now at 10, it's at 10 percent. I hope it's going to
recover. But we have to--I think it's been an act of generational theft
that we have laid on our children and our grandchildren.
MR. GREGORY: OK, a few more. Are you--do you support Ben Bernanke for a
second term as Fed chief?
SEN. McCAIN: I, I want to examine it some more. I had a good meeting with
him, but I'd like to examine the record. I'm very disappointed in what's
happened with some of their proposals, because now Wall Street's doing
great, billions in bonuses, all kinds of things. And Main Street, I
guarantee you--come with me to Phoenix, Arizona, Flagstaff, Yuma. I'll
tell you, Mr. Bernanke's policies have not helped the businesses in my
MR. GREGORY: Will healthcare reform pass with a public option?
SEN. McCAIN: I don't know. I don't know. The American public opinion is
swinging more and more against it. We're fighting a good fight. We are
not delaying, but this is one of probably the most interesting domestic
discussions I've ever been in my career in the United States Senate. And
frankly, it's been vigorous and it's been enjoyable.
MR. GREGORY: Do you think he'll get it, though? You think he'll get
reform in some capacity?
SEN. McCAIN: I don't know. I don't know the answer. He's still counted
all up and down. If he can--if Senator Reid, who's very good at his job,
gets 60 votes, then he has 60 Democrats. But I am hopeful that American
public opinion will be heard in the United States Senate.
MR. GREGORY: Now time for your political analyst hat on. Do you think
that the--Sarah Palin's brand of conservatism is what the Republican
Party needs to regain power in the midterms and ultimately in 2012?
SEN. McCAIN: I think that Sarah Palin is a--has earned herself a very big
place in the Republican political scene. I'm proud of her. I am
entertained every time I see these people attack her and attack her and
attack her. "She's irrelevant." But they continue to attack her. I am so
proud of her and the work that she is doing and...
MR. GREGORY: You thought her book was fair?
SEN. McCAIN: Oh, sure. Yeah. I, I enjoyed her book. I--look, if 2,000...
MR. GREGORY: She kind of felt like she was thrown under the bus by the
McCain campaign at some level.
SEN. McCAIN: Look--oh, listen, we have a wonderful relationship, Todd and
Sarah and I. Just saw her recently. And I'm, I'm very proud of her. And,
and we need vigorous discussion and debate in the Republican Party. She's
going to be a big part of that discussion and debate in the future.
MR. GREGORY: All right, Senator McCain, as always, thank you for being
SEN. McCAIN: Thank you, David.
MR. GREGORY: Appreciate it very much.
Up next, more of our special hour on Afghanistan. Analysis from two
journalists and best-selling authors, New York Times columnist Tom
Friedman and The Washington Post's Bob Woodward, coming up after this
brief station break.
MR. DAVID GREGORY: We're back and continuing our special hour this
morning on Afghanistan, joined now by Bob Woodward of The Washington Post
and Tom Friedman of The New York Times.
Great to have both of you here today.
Tom Friedman, we've heard a lot here, and I want to get your reaction to
all the players. What are the hard questions now as we move forward on
MR. THOMAS FRIEDMAN: Well, you know, David, my own feeling is that
there's a lot of misplaced focus on this question of a deadline, like how
and when we get out. I think it's much more important to focus on how we
start. And what worries me right now is a certain strategic incoherence
that I hear as I listen to the key players. The president said
explicitly, and his spokesman, "We are not doing nation-building in
Afghanistan." And General McChrystal says, "We need to raise and train an
army and police force of 400,000 people." Now, how you do have an army
that is not connected to a state, OK? Is it just going to float there?
Are we going to pay it? And so for me, you know, we--we're Americans, we
focus on us. I think we're not focusing on the key issue.
The key issue is this, in my view, David: The surge is happening--that
Hamid Karzai is both the cause of the surge and the beneficiary. He's the
cause in that it is his corruption, the crime syndicate that his
government turned into, which got many Afghans to turn to the Taliban. We
now have to surge, basically, because he lost his own people. That's
what's going on. And so for me, everything depends on who Karzai is, what
kind of government he builds. Remember, there's only, there's only one
reason we have a chance left for a decent outcome in Iraq, and it's
because of the awakening in Iraq by Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites to take on
their own extremists. If that does not happen in Afghanistan, if we don't
build a government there that the people want to fight for, defend and be
loyal to, nothing else works. And that's, to me, what we should be
focusing; how we get in, not when we leave.
MR. BOB WOODWARD: I think the key issue is whether President Obama played
his part, did his job. And I, I think by all analysis and evidence now,
he did. I mean, you had this group of people in his national security
team who had very different views about what needed to be done. He held
them together like there really was a collaboration. In any
collaboration, there's going to be compromise. And so now the spotlight
really shifts to, I think, three areas that need to be watched, and I,
and I think he's going to be watching very carefully.
The military, can they do their job? Can--the word that was not in
Obama's speech was counterinsurgency, which is protect the people. Are
they going to be able to do that in Afghanistan? Now, I know last month
there was--there are always these assessments. Secretary Clinton was
saying they do them each month. I think the one last month by General
McChrystal concluded that in lots of areas about half of his force is
doing a very good job, the other half is not. That means there is a lot
of work to be done.
The other area is the intelligence world. There's--a lot of this is the
secret world, the below the line, the classified forces. There is a lot
that can be done here. I suspect a good deal will be that we may not know
And the third area, which Tom raises, which is the diplomatic area.
It--is Secretary Clinton, Richard Holbrooke, the special ambassador,
going to be able to find a way to effectively pressure Karzai to change
so it's no longer a crime syndicate?
MR. GREGORY: Well, on that...
MR. WOODWARD: In other words, can we negotiate with the godfather?
MR. GREGORY: Well, and I want to pick up on that, because I posed five
big questions at the top of this program, one of which was how will
winning be defined? Now, I don't know if it's the definition of winning,
Tom, but we did hear from Secretary Gates that the time horizon is, at
most, five years. That's when Karzai wants to take over complete control.
So he is saying somewhere on the continuum is the life of U.S. force
involvement in Afghanistan. Now, in that span of time a state has to be
stood up, an Afghan army has to be stood up, centuries of aversion to
central government has to be overcome in Afghanistan; and Pakistan has to
do something it has yet to do heretofore, which is really target the
baddest of the bad guys on their side of the border and believe that it's
in their interest to take out the Taliban, which is capable of hurting
us. Five years?
MR. FRIEDMAN: Well...
MR. GREGORY: Is that defining success? Is that going to happen in that
MR. FRIEDMAN: Look, I'm deeply skeptical of the whole thing, so I'm
probably the wrong person to be asking. But I, I would simply say this.
There is simply one indicator of success in my view, David, and that is
a critical mass of Afghans willing to stand up and fight for their own
government. That, that, that's the only reason we've got a chance in, in
MR. GREGORY: They've got to want it more than we want it for them.
MR. FRIEDMAN: They've got to--if they think we want it more than they do,
we are dead, because they will let us want it more than they do, and they
will hold our coat from now for the next five or 15 years. So without
that, nothing happens. David, the only time that the Middle East has put
a smile on our face in the last 30 years is when it starts with them.
Camp David started with Egypt and Israel in a secret meeting. Oslo peace
process ain't called Oslo for nothing; started in a secret meeting
between Israelis and Palestinians. When they want it, when they take
ownership of it, it works. And when they don't, we can be there till
Christmas 2050.
MR. WOODWARD: Mm-hmm.
MR. GREGORY: But, Bob, let me have you pick up on some of these other
MR. WOODWARD: Yeah.
MR. GREGORY: Does a withdrawal date give the enemy an advantage? Your
analysis on what you've heard the answer on that.
MR. WOODWARD: But I think, I mean, it's pretty clear that's a
non-withdrawal withdrawal date. Other words, they were talking about...
MR. GREGORY: A non-denial denial.
MR. WOODWARD: A non-denial denial.
MR. FRIEDMAN: It's a known unknown.
MR. WOODWARD: It, it's a starting point.
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
MR. WOODWARD: And it probably was useful to send that message to Karzai
and, and the Afghan government and our allies and so forth.
MR. GREGORY: Right.
MR. WOODWARD: I think no one has a crystal ball here. Everyone can sound
wise and be wrong. And we don't know what's going to happen. I think the
X factor in all of this has to do with the leadership in the military,
the intelligence world and the State Department. Can they really do
something? Can the generals get out there and drive the forces on the
ground? That's where this is going to be won or lost.
MR. GREGORY: The, the other question had to do with whether the strategy
makes Americans safer from terrorists. And, Tom, you actually referred to
this in a column you wrote this week, and I'll put it up on the screen,
in terms of the reverberations of policy. "Iraq was about `the war on
terrorism.' The Afghanistan invasion, for me, was about the `war on
terrorists.' To me, it was about getting bin Laden and depriving al-Qaeda
of a sanctuary--period. I never thought we could make Afghanistan into
Norway--and even if it--we did, it would not resonate beyond its borders
the way Iraq might." Is this the antidote to terrorism, getting
Afghanistan right?
MR. FRIEDMAN: It could potentially be, David. But I think you're right
to--let's widen the aperture a little bit. What's, what's been going on
since 9/11? What's been going on since 9/11 is a war within Islam, a war
within this great faith community over whether, how, to what degree it
should embrace modernity. That's what's actually going on. And we've been
dragged into it and, and dived into it, to some degree. There's a
minority, a violent, Jihadist minority, that wants to take Islam back to
the 12th century. There is a quiet, silent majority that wants to go into
the future. Unfortunately, David, they need to have their own civil war.
We had a civil war in this country some 150 years ago. We had some people
who believed some really bad stuff. They believed we could discriminate
against people because of the color of their skin. We defeated those
people so badly that three generations later their offspring haven't
forgotten it. If they don't have that war within Islam, nothing changes.
That's why the most important story of the week was the one Secretary of
State Clinton referred to. There was a bombing in Rawalpindi Friday. The
Friday, day of prayer, week after the eve, OK? A suicide bomber walked
into a mosque and blew it up in the middle of Friday prayer. Where was
the mass protest in the Muslim world against that? In Pakistan, we saw a
million people take to the streets to protest Danish cartoons that
insulted the profit Muhammad. Tens of people killed in a mosque, real
people created in the image of God? And unless you get millions of people
protesting that, saying that is haraam, that is forbidden, that is not
on, there is nothing we can do to win this war.
MR. GREGORY: Bob, what about the, the...
MR. WOODWARD: Well, I...
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
MR. WOODWARD: I think the lives of the average Afghan come into play
here. How are they living? What's going on with them? And we are sending
our military to protect them. You know what, I mean, that--this isn't an
abstraction, it is about our military forces going in, eating goat with
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. WOODWARD: ...smoking bad cigarettes, using the same toilet. And for
them it's not a toilet, it's, it's a pot. And those people, can you win
them over and show that you're protecting them so they get vested in our
success? What's going on in Pakistan and, and the theory of all of this,
which you are very, very smart on, Tom, is not part of their lives. And
the whole strategy here is to connect with those real lives and make
those people so they are going to say, "We're signing up with you, not
the insurgents."
MR. GREGORY: All right, I've just got a couple minutes left. Let's bring
it back to domestic politics here. The left does not like this war,
doesn't like this strategy. How's this going to get paid for, Bob? Is
there going to have to be some kind of war tax to pay the additional $30
billion to send 30,000 more troops?
MR. WOODWARD: Well, one of the lessons we learned, going back to Vietnam,
is the commander in chief has extraordinary authority in this area; and
they say we're committing the troops, there is no way--I emphasize, no
way--that the Congress is going to deny the money to the troops who are
in the field. So it's going to be complicated, it's going to be
expensive. As Obama said--here, here's the problem I have with this. Is
the strategy decisive? And the answer is no. You talk to people inside,
and they say, "This is our best effort"...
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. WOODWARD: ..."but we can't guarantee it." And when you can't
guarantee something where the stakes are so high, we could be in trouble.
MR. GREGORY: So, and the, the last question I pose, what are the
consequences of failure for the region and for the president? And what's
interesting is that the president has effectively said, in effect,
"failure is an option, because we can't fight this forever." This week
the war on Afghanistan, the war on unemployment came together. Well,
ultimately, what's more consequential for the this presidency?
MR. FRIEDMAN: Well, I'll tell you how you bring them together into one
policy, David.
MR. GREGORY: Yeah.
MR. FRIEDMAN: It's called a gasoline tax of a dollar a gallon, OK? That
you raise the money that we need to pay down the deficit, to pay for
health care, and at the same time take away the very funding that's going
to these people indirectly to draw a bull's-eye on our back. And the fact
that our politics can't allow us to do the very thing we know is critical
and important, shame on us.
MR. GREGORY: The consequences of failure?
MR. WOODWARD: I'd, I think Obama and Secretary Gates and Secretary
Clinton made it pretty clear they're not going to let this fail. And what
they are really saying, what the real meaning of all of these speeches
and interviews and language is, "This is what we're going to do now.
Let's see what happens on the ground. Let's see where we are each month."
And I don't think they're afraid to come back and say, "You know what?
This didn't work. We're going to change it and make sure it works."
If--look, let's go to the nightmare.
MR. GREGORY: Mm-hmm.
MR. WOODWARD: There's another serious attack, terrorist attack in this
country, then everything changes. And obviously, that includes the
Afghan-Pakistan strategy.
MR. FRIEDMAN: They have to clear and hold, but, but--we have to clear and
hold, but they have to build. And if they don't do it--it's about them,
MR. GREGORY: All right, we're going to leave it there. Thank you both
very much.
By the way, you can read an excerpt from the updated paperback edition of
Tom Friedman's best-selling book "Hot, Flat and Crowded: Why We Need a
Green Revolution and How It Can Renew America." Go to our Web site,
And we'll be right back.
MR. DAVID GREGORY: Before we go today, in our Take Two Web Extra, a
special conversation today with two correspondents from The Economist
magazine about the global implications of the president's decision on
Afghanistan. Plus, we're going to get their take on issues facing the
world in 2010, all in our MEET THE PRESS Take Two Web Extra. It's up this
afternoon on our Web site, mtp.msnbc.com.
That's all for today. We'll be back next week. If it's Sunday, it's MEET


text:
Feb-19-09 DCA's Main Street New Jersey Program Continues Success in Difficult Economic Times
DCA's Main Street New Jersey Program Continues Success in Difficult Economic Times
TRENTON - Department of Community Affairs (DCA) Commissioner Joseph Doria today announced that DCA's Main Street New Jersey Program witnessed continued accomplishments in 2008, including an increase in jobs and business expansion.
"The Main Street New Jersey program is indicative of the kind of economic development that Governor Corzine has been promoting and advocating throughout the state," said Commissioner Doria. "Community commitment towards enhancing the hearts of our traditional towns and cities is one of the hallmarks of local Main Street programs. We are proud of our accomplishments in 2008 and look forward to the program's continued success in 2009."
Despite difficult economic times, local Main Street New Jersey districts statewide saw the creation of 90 housing units, a gain of over approximately 110 new or expanded businesses and approximately 460 jobs in 2008. In 2008 Main Street New Jersey programs crossed the $1 billion mark for reinvestment in their districts since the program's inception in 1990. Additionally, local stakeholders and volunteers invested approximately $1,984,210 worth of free labor for the betterment of their historic downtowns and commercial corridors in 2008 alone. The Main Street New Jersey program has a $529 return on investment for every state dollar invested in the program.
Main Street New Jersey (a coordinating program of the National Trust Main Street Center) is a comprehensive revitalization program that promotes the historic and economic redevelopment of traditional business districts in New Jersey. Every two years the DCA accepts applications and designates selected communities to join the program. These communities receive valuable technical support and training to assist in restoring their Main Streets as centers of community and economic activity. The program helps municipalities improve the economy, appearance and image of their central business districts through the organization of local citizens and resources. Last year, Somerville, Newton, Caldwell, Montclair, Orange and Maple Shade became the newest designees of the program, bringing the total to 28.
For more information regarding Main Street New Jersey, call 609-633-9769, or log on to www.mainstreetnewjersey.com.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Woodford, Vermont
|This article is a stub. Help us to expand it by contributing your knowledge. For county and town page guidelines, visit U.S. County Page Content Suggestions.
Woodford is a town in Bennington county, Vermont. It was formed in 1753 in N.H., renewed 1762 N.H. The probate and court district for Woodford is Bennington. For more information, contact the town at 1391 VT Rt. 9, Woodford 05201. On the attached map, Woodford is shown as 13 in Bennington county.
For information about the state of Vermont see Vermont Family History Research.


text:
Thursday, 03 June
We woke up to find the carpeting in the bathroom has a large stain - around the toilet.
Furthermore, the coffee pot, refrigerator, and radio are not working. There must be an electrical box somewhere around here, but we can't find it, to reset the breakers. Or replace the fuses, perhaps?
We have the name of the plumber the previous owner used; she very helpfully left us a list of such services. However, we have no phone...so, downtown we hiked, to the phone just off the main square by the Post Office.
The plumber wasn't at his phone. No use leaving a message, as there is no way he can return our call.
How to find another plumber? We asked strangers on the street, and were directed to Jackson's, a retail store selling bathroom stuff. The lady there was on lunch break, but unlocked the door to let us look around for fifteen minutes until her break was over. We did find some bathroom cabinets there, but they're very expensive, as in £200-400. Not for us, thank you very much.
After 15 minutes, the lady returned and gave us the name of a plumber who installs sinks and showers and toilets and so forth for Jackson's.
Back at the Post Office, the clerk who had sold us the telephone service let us use his mobile phone (as they're called here, not 'cell phones') to call the plumber. He can't come until tomorrow. But what can we do? At least we have an appointment for tomorrow at 1:00. That's a relief.
We also used his mobile phone to resolve the issue with the water company. They had shut down our (brand-new!) account last October, which is why they no longer have the direct debit from our bank activated. so how is it that, with us gone and the account closed, we accumulated £60 pounds worth of charges? Because the amount they had charged us earlier was only estimated. When they actually read the meter, it was more. For one week's worth of water? Anyway, I had TOLD them what the meter reading was. So I think we are going to dispute the charge, but not today. Not on somebody else's mobile phone minutes. For now, we're re-instating the automatic debit. And arranging never again to be charged on the basis of estimated use, but only actual meter readings.
The feeling of 'I can't believe we own this adorable flat!' has evaporated. We own it, complete with leaks, electrical problems, and bills. There's no manager to call to take care of it all for us, no landlord, no front desk. All the issues are ours to solve.
With with the major ones resolved, however, we began to feel relatively free and easy, and ready to start having some fun. So, as it is another perfect day, wandered through the market. Thursday is market day here, where you can buy everything from shoes to fresh produce to meats from vendors under white tents. We stopped at the Mediterranian stall and bought over-priced kalamata olives, feta cheese, and loukoumi, that sweet, gelatinous, sugar-coated candy Demetrios likes, otherwise known as Turkish Delight. We won't buy any more from that vendor, though, as the supermarket has it all at more reasonable prices. Food here, in general, is quite dear ('dear,' not 'expensive').
We also found some gorgeous rhubarb, which I bought and took home to make into a pie.
We strolled through the park on our way home. It has playground equipment I've never seen before, as well as a place for skateboarding.
At the pond, three or four mallard duck families have ducklings of various ages, some of them no more than two days old. And the swans have seven grey (not gray) cygnets. When I stopped to admire them, Mother Swan (I don't know where Mother Goose was) reared up out of the water, flapping her wings and squawking at me.
'What's she doing?' asked a small child on a nearby bench.
'Greeting me,' I fibbed.
'Warning her away,' said the child's father.
There are gulls here, too, even though we're about 7 miles from the ocean. I think they're herring gulls, because they look the same as our herring gulls in North Carolina. Must acquire a bird book!
In the evening, we encountered our neighbor, Linda, and asked her where the electrical panels are with the circuit breakers. She said hers were in her coat closet by the front door. We opened ours, and yes, there was a box with buttons and lights, but it was the security system. We had already looked there, and everywhere else, earlier. Still, as I stood there near the front door, I seemed to have a vague memory of having seen those breakers somewhere nearby. Then I happened to glance up, and there they were above and to the right of the front door. Sure enough, one of the handles was pointing downward. We flipped it up like all the rest, and the fridge began to hum. Another problem solved. We breathed huge sighs.
Friday, 04 June
The plumber showed up, half an hour late but still most welcome, and did his bit. The good news is that the water was coming from the tank of the toilet, not the bowl. Which means it isn't sewerage ('sewerage', not sewage'). In fact, it was coming from a leak in the pipe leading to the tank. So it's just water! Clean water. Thank heaven. However, the carpet and the rubber underlayment are saturated. Plumber ripped them back for us to help them dry. It will take some days. He charged us £45, not bad.
We found a space heater that had been left for us in one of the bedroom closets. It puts out a prodigious amount of very hot air. So later, at night when electrical rates are lower, we plugged it in and left it on a couple of hours to try to speed the process, to prevent mold and/or mildew.
As soon as the plumber had left, we went out to enjoy the town and the still-perfect weather.
Stores and pubs and automobiles around here are all sporting the English flag. Not the Union Jack, which represents the whole United Kingdom, but the white flag with red cross that represents just England. From this, we have deduced that the World Cup soccer championships are about to be played and that England is in the competition. We inquired, and were told the matches begin Saturday of next week. England is to play the United States. I suppose that means we'd better not show up in any pubs to watch it on their television!
Late in the afternoon took the bus to nearby Burscough, where we had heard there is a shop that rents televisions. We found the shop, but it was already closed. We shall try again early next week.
On our way home, we again spotted the mysterious bird that sits on the chimney across the street from our flat. But again we couldn't see him well enough to tell what he is. He seems bigger than a crow.
There are hours more daylight here than in Richmond! I don't know what time the sun rises because I'm never awake, but it doesn't set until around 9:30, and what I call 'deep dusk' doesn't really set in until 10:00. It's hard to realize when bedtime comes. All this glorious light is the Brits' reward for suffering through the long, dark winters.
Wednesday, June 9, 2010
Learning to Live in England, 2010, Part II
Thursday, 03 June
Posted by Anastasia Theodoridis at 6:27 AM
2 comments:
- GretchenJoanna said...
Oh, goody! More travelogues--or whatever one calls the logs from one's second home in a less-familiar land, as I suppose it to be. A year ago or so, when you wrote about buying this flat, I didn't know that you weren't going to live there all the time. I love all your attention to detail that makes for engaging stories.
- June 10, 2010 at 12:23 AM
- Anam Cara said...
1776, 1812, 1950, and, we hope 2010 - all years when America was the underdog, but defeated the English!
(1950 was also a World Cup win)
- June 10, 2010 at 6:45 AM


text:
Does my daily sodium intake matter?
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Food Companies and Sodium Reduction
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ABC's Dan Harris Dismisses Tea Party, Hints: 'Complacency' Is the Big Risk for 'Gleeful' Democrats
Dan Harris on Saturday offered some odd spin in the debate over the Tea
Party. The weekend Good Morning America co-host argued that
"complacency" was the big risk for Democrats "gleeful" over the anti-big
government protesters. [MP3 audio here.]
Harris suggested, "But some Democrats, including some people in the White House, seem to be verging on gleeful when it comes to the rise of the Tea Party, because the logic seems to be, some of these people have said such extreme things in the past, that they're gonna be easier to beat."
Talking to Democratic strategist Karen Finney, the journalist wondered, "Is there complacency potentially setting in?"
According to a September 19 Rasmussen
tracking poll, the Republicans have a ten point generic ballot lead
over the Democrats. So, worrying about the "complacency" of "gleeful"
Democrats is certainly an unusual analysis.
However, this isn't the first time Harris has tried to portray the Tea Party movement as bizarre and out of the mainstream.
On the September 15, 2009 World News, Harris chided the protesters: "...Some prominent Obama supporters are now saying that it paints a picture of an opposition driven, in part, by a refusal to accept a black President."
A transcript of the September 18 segment, which aired at 8:04am, follows:
DAN HARRIS: Let's stay in Washington now and get some insight from two political pros. Republican Robert Traynham and Democrat Karen Finney. Good morning to both of you.
ROBERT TRAYNHAM (REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST): Good morning.
KAREN FINNEY (DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST): Good morning.
HARRIS: Thanks for getting up early. We appreciate it. Let me start with you, Karen. Is Sarah Palin running?
FINNEY: You know, I don't think so, I think she enjoys being something of a political celebrity, obviously in the primary season, she's been able to have an influence on the process. And, you know, she seems to enjoy being able to get paid and back candidates without having the accountability of any policy ideas.
HARRIS: Robert, is she running?
TRAYNHAM: I don't know the answer to that. And truth be told, I don't think she knows the answer. But she's doing everything that she can to possibly can to at least position herself, that if she chooses to run, she has the staff and the resources in place to do so.
HARRIS: Well staying with you for a second. If she does run, do you think she can win?
TRAYNHAM: In the primaries, I think she could. I mean, look, if you take a look at it, there's really three states that determine who the Republican nominee is gonna be. Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. When you take a look at the demographics of those states, Sarah Palin has a significant ground force. The real question becomes whether or not she can win in the general. And I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to that question or not. But look, she is a force to be reckoned with, there's no question about it.
HARRIS: Karen, is this a candidate that the Obama White House would like to face or would fear facing?
FINNEY: You know, I think Democrats learned a long time ago when they were hoping Ronald Reagan would be the Republican nominee not to try to guess or foreshadow. But look, you know, again, I don't think Sarah Palin's seriously running. I think, again, what she's doing here is trying to stake out a base in the party, which she clearly has. And be, you know, a political player.
HARRIS: Robert, while Palin appeared in Iowa, we had this cattle call going on in D.C., which is gonna continue straight through the weekend at the Values Voters Summit. Is there anybody in the field, a large field of potential Republican presidential candidates that stands out to you?
TRAYNHAM: Not really. I mean, the only person that pretty much is putting his big toe in the water right now, and arguably could have a chance at this, is Mitch Daniels, the Republican Governor of Iowa- of Indiana. He is someone that definitely strikes me as someone that is a deficit hawk. He is someone that clearly talks the talk of a lot of social conservatives. But truth be told, the field is wide open. We have about a dozen Republican candidates, everyone from Newt Gingrich, to Mitt Romney, possibly Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Haley Barbour. The field is wide open, and they all recognize that Obama is very vulnerable right now.
HARRIS: Karen, there's so much energy on the right right now. But some Democrats, including some people in the White House, seem to be verging on gleeful when it comes to the rise of the Tea Party, because the logic seems to be, some of these people have said such extreme things in the past, that they're gonna be easier to beat. Is there complacency potentially setting in?
FINNEY: No, I hope not. And I hope we learned our lesson, frankly, from the Massachusetts Senate race. I mean, that was a big wake up call. And I think frankly even Lisa Murkowski's race should be a big wake up call to anyone who's an incumbent that you cannot take anything for granted. You've got to do the work and show up. That being said, I think what Democrats recognize is that while there's been so much talk about the enthusiasm gap, what we've seen is really Republican enthusiasm folding in against itself. Not necessarily against Democrats, which suggests that during the general election, we don't know how those Tea Party candidates are going to fair. If Democrats can really turn out the vote, things might turn out a little bit differently than everybody's predicting.
HARRIS: Well Robert, what's your state of anxiety or lack thereof right now? With the Tea Party, obviously, it was a huge phenomenon during the primaries. The primaries are now over. We're heading into the general election, are you worried that the Tea Party phenomenon could hurt the party going forward?
TRAYNHAM: Well I'm not sure. This is a healthy conversation that the Republicans are having amongst themselves about the heart and soul of the party. You know, I agree with Karen that you should never take anything for granted. And you can look at Arlen Spector, you can look at all the primaries across the country, Bob Bennett in Utah. Obviously, Lisa Murkowski in Alaska. But I disagree with her. This is not really a conversation within the Republican Party, per say, or civil war. This is a-
FINNEY: Robert- Robert-
TRAYNHAM: Karen- Karen- this is a conversation that the American people are having because take a look at this. The Democrats should be very happy right now that the, the President Obama ended the Iraq war. That comprehensive health care reform has passed. That the Consumer Protection Agency has a new head, and by the way, they're very, very unhappy right now with the Democratic Party, so the truth be told, there's some real issues within the President's party that he needs to address.
DAN HARRIS: I'd love to see you two use each other's names against each other the way you've done, but unfortunately, we've got to cut this off. I'm gonna do this, however, with Bianna going forward. Bianna.
-Scott Whitlock is a news analyst for the Media Research Center. Click here to follow him on Twitter.


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OTTAWA — The Defence Department is building a new armoury in Halifax, but anyone worried about the fate of the historic existing armoury overlooking the Commons can breathe a sigh of relief.The government has put out a tender looking for a company to design and build a new armoury at Willow Park, part of CFB Halifax off Windsor Street in the north end.Construction is estimated to cost $38 million and the job is open for bidding for the next four weeks. The military says there is no timetable for having the armoury completed.Armouries are mostly used to train reservists. Building a new one doesn't mean the government is planning to tear down the existing armoury on North Park Street at Cunard.Also known as the Halifax Drill Hall, the grand 78,500-square-foot building dates back to 1899 and is a National Historic Site."We don't have any plans to get rid of the armoury or demolish it," said army spokesman Mark Gough."We're going to keep using it for, I can't tell you what the end date will be, but for the foreseeable future."The government has recently sunk money into renovating the armoury.But CFB Halifax has outgrown the armoury and there is a shortage of training space. To cope, the military has been leasing space.The military plans to use both armouries once the new one is built. Gough said he didn't know how many units would work out of the new building.The Princess Louise Fusiliers, 36 Signals Regiment, 33 Medical Platoon and CFB Halifax Supply Detachment use the current armoury.The first three groups are reserve units made up mostly of part-time soldiers. The Halifax Rifles Army Cadet Corps also uses the building.The armoury is known for its red rock-faced stone exterior and Richardsonian Romanesque style. It was designed by Thomas Fuller, the chief architect at the Public Works Department at the time.The building was declared a National Historic Site in 1989, in part because it is so much larger than other drill halls of its era. It was built to hold everything from lecture rooms to a bowling alley to an indoor shooting range, according to Parks Canada.
Ottawa announces start of construction for 2 Halifax military projectsGlobal News07 April 2014HALIFAX – The federal government has announced the start of construction on two military projects in Halifax.The first project is a housing and training facility for the junior ranks at Canadian Forces Base Halifax.Aecon and SLI have been awarded that contract for $64.8 million.The second project, worth $6.1 million, is going to PCL Constructors Canada for a new armoury in Bedford.That facility will be named after Maj. Robert Campbell Risley, a native of Sydney, N.S., who was the first commanding officer of 5 Provost Company in 1947.That unit later became the modern-day 3 Military Police Regiment.
Maybe for 36 CER and the Halifax Rifles?Considering the current armoury houses: The Princess Louise Fusiliers, 36 Signals Regiment, 33 Medical Platoon and CFB Halifax Supply DetachmentNevermind, seems the meat heads err... MP's are moving there....
It was my understanding that more then 3 MP Regt HQ would be moving in seeing as though they fit into a strip mall location now. Somehow they got the naming rights at least.
So that means A-Block is gonna be torn down?
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"
The best part is we don't have $$$$ to put fuel in the ships, but let's built something new!! The hospital may also be affected, CSE/MSE might take part of that building!But wait, what about parking?
Looks that way, the new complex will be housing the mess, bring the galleys together, barbershop and a retail store.
Am I to understand that the Fleet Club will be going in there too? The press release refers to "dining, galley and mess hall" - but "A Galley" has traditionally referred to both the kitchen and the dining facilities.
Yes, it will be similar to Juno Towers. And it is being built on the current Fleet Club site.


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Favorite choices for food and drink our first day in Paris?
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 2
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:21 pm
Post subject: Favorite choices for food and drink our first day in Paris?
We have been married 39 yrs. and will be visiting Paris for the first time. Will be staying two weeks the end of November, 2005.
Wondering what kinds of selections others would put at the top of their lists of food and drink not to be missed.
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 125
Location: Vancouver
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:09 pm
Post subject:
It's been ten years since I was in Paris (whimper!), but I always adored the lunch at the charming Cafe Quasimodo, on rue de la Cite (I think - just up from Notre Dame). Their blanquette de veau is fantastic (served over noodles, not rice), and the escargot were also delicious.
I wish I were there right now!
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:53 pm
Post subject:
I don't know where you are going to stay in Paris. But maybe, after recovering from your jet-leg, your first food destiny should be a market, the nearest market from your hotel, just to taste, smell, feel, see first hand what is the origin of the famous french food: the fresh ingredients, the great variety of product. Then, just sit in the nearest cafe, and drink your first coffee and croissant beurre . What could possibly be more parisian than that. The tour Eiffel can wait for another hour or so.
Bon voyage,
No more war, more croissants beurre and tartines
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Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Secaucus, NJ
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm
Post subject: Try this
I think your first dinner in Paris should be a good one. I have two ideas on my blog from when i was in Paris.
The first is L'Endroit, a cozy wine bistro near the Bastille.
The second is Le Caveau de l'Isle, 36 rue Saint Louis en I'Isle (lovely location)
Whether you go on your first day or any day thereafter, i think you will like both of these.
My websight "i heart paris" has a bunch of other restaurant ideas, just click on the link PARIS-EAT on the left column.
i want to go everywhere i've never been
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Lady Amalthea
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
Location: New York City
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Favorite choices for food and drink our first day in Par
For French "country-style" cooking, provided you like meat, I would suggest Chez Henri. It's a bistro in St-Germain-des-Pres with the best potatoes Gratin in the world. 16 Rue Princesse, Metro Mabillon.
I would also recommend Les dessous de la robe, a wine bar with truly excellent food on Rue Bertin Poiree, near Chatelet-Les Halles. I have a review of it on my blog:
But most of all, wander the streets, stop into boulangeries for an afternoon snack and savor all the new smells and tastes you'll encounter. Enjoy.
Don't forget the cannolis!
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 256
Location: Richmond, VA, usa
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 3:25 pm
Post subject:
cheese, cheese, cheese........the type u can't get in the us (i don't know where ur comin from) but the camemberts, pont l'eveques & others in the "stinky" category that aren't pasturized r soooo much better than anything that we can get ....so grab a baguette and pick up a pastry for dessert & voila....your first meal.....don't forget to pack ur swiss army knife and maybe some plastic spoons for various yogurts....and mousses u can buy in markets (i love the chestnut ...also something we can't get here)
Make me half the person my dog thinks I am.
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Broomfield, CO USA
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 4:41 pm
Post subject:
I would have to second melinda's suggestion - cheese, bread & wine!!
A friend and I rented an apartment for a week and the first thing we did was go out and find the market, wine shop and bakery - first things first!!
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 696
Location: israel
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:43 pm
Post subject:
Hi GranmmaSara, after reading all our suggestions for your first meal in Paris, including mine ( market+ local cafe), I suddenly realized that it is what we like to eat :you did not tell us what you would like to eat ,what you dreamed when choosing Paris for your 39th anniversary trip. Do you like fancy food, would you like popular food, fancy restaurants, just bistros? Are you meat lovers, sea food lovers, vegetarians? Maybe so, some of us could make really helpful suggestions. Anyhow, I'm sure you'll love Paris. everybody does.
GrandmmaSimona ( I have three of them , how many do you have?)
No more war, more people enjoying Paris, good food and a good life!
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:58 pm
Post subject:
Thank you for all the responses.
We like all kinds of food and are looking forward to trying many new things, but are not planning to go to any extravagantly expensive restaurants.
I was just curious about what others consider as their favorite foods to enjoy in Paris.
We have 6 grandchildren, and another on the way.
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 13
Location: Livermore, CA
Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:17 am
Post subject: How about a crepe?
A quintessentially French food to enjoy is a hot, fresh crepe. Usually there is at least one stand near the Eiffel Tower, and I can think of few things better than a warm
crêpe au sucre
(crepe with granulated sugar), or with
(jam) or, if you're feeling especially decadent, nutella and banana. Thus fortified, you'll be up for the long lines of the tower...
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Journal of the Southern African Institute of Mining and Metallurgy
On-line version ISSN 2411-9717
Print version ISSN 2225-6253
BEZUIDENHOUT, G.A; DAVIS, J; VAN BEEK, B and EKSTEEN, J.J. Operation of a concentrated mode dual-alkali scrubber plant at the Lonmin smelter. J. S. Afr. Inst. Min. Metall. [online]. 2012, vol.112, n.7, pp.657-665. ISSN 2411-9717.
Lonmin Platinum installed a concentrated mode dual-alkali scrubber at the smelter in Marikana in 2002. The dual-alkali scrubber was the technology of choice at that time as a sulphur fixation plant, due to the perceived benefits of handling both the high SO2 concentrations of converter off-gas and the swings in SO2 concentration that are linked to Peirce-Smith operation. Owing to current and impending legislative requirements for air quality and waste, Lonmin is currently considering additions to the dual-alkali plant, but is also evaluating alternative technologies for sulphur fixation. This paper reviews the decision of Lonmin to install a concentrated mode dual-alkali scrubber and presents plant performance achieved. It also describes the important control variables and sensitivities of the plant, and the final product that is produced by the operation of the plant. The legislative requirement that drives the Lonmin technology evaluation is also discussed
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CARSON, CA - An unlucky break in the first half set the tone for a second loss on the season for Vancouver Whitecaps FC (2W-2L-0D), as the 'Caps fell 2-1 to Chivas USA (4W-1L-1D) at the Home Depot Center on Saturday.
Highlights: Chivas USA 2-1 Whitecaps FC
Kenny Miller pulled one back for the Blue and White as they attempted a valiant comeback, but it wasn't enough to overcome a first-half own goal from Jun Marques Davidson and a second-half volley from Eric Avila.
Having been away on international duty with Scotland, Miller started the game on the bench whilst head coach Martin Rennie shuffled his pack up front with Camilo taking the place of rookie winger Erik Hurtado in the starting lineup.
After a quiet start to the match, Chivas opened the scoring on 11 minutes as Carlos Alvarez looked to deliver a ball from the left which hit Jun Marques Davidson and spun past Joe Cannon in the 'Caps goal.
Chivas had an opportunity to double their lead after 21 minutes when Juan Agudelo received the ball on the edge of the area and, despite pressure from the Whitecaps defence, the young American played through teammate Eric Avila whose first time shot hit the side-netting.
Two minutes later, Whitecaps FC got their first clear sight of goal as Alain Rochat struck a long shot from the left flank that was too hot to handle for Chivas 'keeper Dan Kennedy, but with the goal gaping Daigo Kobayashi could only see his follow-up effort clear the bar.
Vancouver continued to press for a goal and on 35 minutes Camilo found space on the left side of the box as the Brazilian cut inside before curling a shot just past the far post.
Two minutes later Darren Mattocks won a corner for Whitecaps FC. Kobayashi swung the ball into the box and the cross was met by Brad Rusin who aimed for the far post but couldn't get enough power on the header as Kennedy collected the ball easily. Vancouver maintained the pressure and a minute later Mattocks created space outside the area but shot narrowly wide as Whitecaps FC went into the break a goal down.
Chivas almost made a perfect start to the second half as a dangerous cross from the right was fired just wide from Bowen to let Vancouver off the hook on 50 minutes.
Five minutes later, after some pressure from Whitecaps FC, Chivas made a break and from a deep cross from the left by Jorge Villafana, Avila struck a first-time volley across Cannon to double the Goats' lead.
The lead was cut in half by the 'Caps on 64 minutes as Hurtado took on the left back and after cutting in fired a shot towards the far post. Kennedy palmed the ball away but only as far as substitute Miller, who finished with a diving header to make the score 2-1.
Mattocks almost grabbed an equalizer on 80 minutes as Miller floated a ball over the Chivas defence for the Jamaican to run onto. The speedy striker then lifted the ball over the onrushing Kennedy, but too far as it landed agonizingly on top of the net.
On 90 minutes there was a final chance for Whitecaps FC as Miller played through substitute Kekuta Manneh who raced through on goal. The rookie took a heavy touch before poking an effort wide as he was clipped by the onrushing Kennedy. Chivas USA held on to the 2-1 victory as Vancouver lost their second straight match away from home.
"I think after we lost the first goal we played well and we had a couple of good chances," add Rennie. "To come out of it with a defeat is very frustrating, but it is something we can learn and build from. We need to do that correctly. We have a lot of talent and good players – that is evident. The game is about scoring goals and making sure you put a goal in the net and of course making sure that the other team does not."
Next up for Whitecaps FC is a third straight road trip as they travel to California to take on San Jose Earthquakes. Kickoff at Buck Shaw Stadium is 7:30 p.m. PT next Saturday, April 6.
Match Stats:
Shots on Goal: Chivas USA 7 - Vancouver 6
Saves: Chivas USA 5 - Vancouver 6
Offsides: Chivas USA 3 - Vancouver 0


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Our Thoughts on Earring BacksYears of experience have shown us that if an earring can be lost in a new way, someone will find the way to do it.
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Shipping:This item will ship by FREE FedEx or UPS Ground service, arriving 3 to 5 business days after your order is processed and shipped. Need it faster? Click here for details.
No hassle returns:If you are not completely satisfied with your DiamondStuds4Less jewelry purchase, you may return it for a prompt refund or exchange. Click here for full details and conditions.
Lifetime Trade-in:Just one more mile we are willing to travel to earn your business and your trust.
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Testimony:My daughter loves them! Thank you so much!
Melanie M, Boston MA November 27, 2018
I am very satisfied with the earrings. I have no complaints. I do have a question about the trade-back policy. If I wanted to trade them back for a better quality diamond, how would I do that? Thank you.
Dhana L, Temecula CA August 25, 2018
They came fast and were just what my Wife wanted SHE LOVES THEM! She wears them every day. thank you
Derek D, Tipton MI August 25, 2018
An amazingly great looking stone, at the lowest prices I could find anywhere. This is my second purchase from DS4L and I will never buy a diamond anywhere else!
Michael M, Santa Fe NM August 25, 2018
Like all first time customers, I wasn't sure what to expect. When I received the earrings I was blown away! I took them to to a local jeweler for an unbiased evaluation and they were exactly as ordered. I really can't say enough about the excellent service and the GREAT DEAL I got on the earrings. They truly exceeded my expectations and my wife is thrilled! I will definitely be a repeat customer! Highly recommended!
Bob D, Ocala, FL May 8, 2018
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1/3 Carat Diamond Stud Earrings in 14k white gold Excellent Cut, H Color I2 Clarity, 3 prong martini settingI2 Clarity in these lovely stud earrings indicates a diamond that has some internal imperfections visible to the naked eye, some miniscule dark points deep inside, or a feather-like mark in the structure. But don't be put off by this as virtually all diamonds have some imperfection of some kind. Our gemologists hand-pick our I2 gems to insure we offer only those with the slightest of imperfections.The Excellent Cut and Near Colorless grade of these I2 diamonds are guaranteed to give them fire and scintillation and with careful setting by our master jewelers, visibility of the existing imperfections are usually minimized.I2 Clarity diamonds have long been a favorite of those women who desire the flash of diamonds on their ears without the need to spend great sums of money. They are our "jewelers choice" for a wonderful pair of earrings offering the best look for the least cost.
Due to special low price, lab report is not included for this item.


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Foodservice utility carts are the backbone of your kitchen and hospitality transportation. Perfect for moving everything from tabletop items, to kitchen utensils, to ingredients, utility carts are the small equipment essential that will save you time, energy, and money. Utility carts are your go to solution for front of the house, back of the house, and off-premise catering jobs. Just about anything you need moved; a utility cart is up to the task. They are engineered to carry heavy loads over rough terrain, and able to provide a wide variety of tasks. Boelter has an excellent selection of durable and versatile utility carts that will make your next job, large or small, easier.
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Welcome to The Pole Company, the designer curtain pole retailer. . . . but because we know that no two windows are the same, and what we want from them is different, we also specialise in tracks and all the curtain accessories that go with them such as curtain pole finials, holdbacks and brackets.
We don't sell every curtain pole on the block, or every blind under the sun, but we've used our twenty years of design and fitting experience to select those products we know to be well-designed, expertly-made and endearingly beautiful - whatever the fashion.
Take our designer curtain poles, available in wood, metal or glass which come from fourteen different sources, some of the dealers we represent are big names like Byron & Byron, Hallis Hudson, or The Bradley Collection, some are from specialists dealers, like Alison Davies, Walcot House, or Cameron Fuller and others come from artisan workshops making hand-crafted poles to our specification - and you won't find them on the high street. If all you need is a curtain track we provide a made-to-measure service.