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Posts Tagged 'pressure'
Types of Contrails
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(TROPOSPHERIC)"ectoplasm and wave vortex"
This aircraft is on approach in humid stormy conditions. Its wheels are down and its flaps are set at fifteen degrees. A temporary "cloud" is visible over the flapped part of the wing indicating the strong pressure reduction caused by the extended flaps, and flowing back from the outermost flap edges is a pair of very strong vortices ("ectoplasm"!) thrown into sharp relief by the clouds of water droplets condensed by the severe reduction in air pressure at their centres. The vortices rise and fall with pressure fluctuations, generated in part by ambient conditions, and also changes in aircraft attitude. Some distance behind the aircraft its wave vortex is remarkably apparent. This is the "mixing engine" that causes contrails to fill supersaturated stratospheric layers.
Why are vortices so stable? Because they spin. Their rotational energy is high, and they can only be brought to a stop by viscous friction between them and the surrounding atmosphere.
The pillar of a tornado is a natural vortex, and is also typically so energetic that water vapor condenses into a "mist" (of water droplets) in the core of its vortex from what one might call the "centrifugal pressure drop" – but one shouldn't – because the real reason for this condensation is the drop in temperature which occurs as a consequence of this drop in pressure.
OF PERSISTENT CONTRAILS (a.k.a. "chemtrails")
The left-hand side of the picture was probably taken towards the end of August 1940, when the first high-altitude gun battles were being fought between the RAF and the Luftwaffe. The participants were Hawker Hurricanes and Me 109s, which were both fitted with superchargers which enabled them to manoever and fight at around 27,000 ft. The photo is taken over St. Paul's Cathedral, London. Apologies for the poor state of the picture, but who knows how many times this picture has been copied…
There is a barrack-room lawyer who has claimed the above picture to be fake. If so, then so is this:
Seeing that I am still being spammed by this guy and others, I'm forced to point out the obvious…
These are NOT identical pictures, they ARE of St. Paul's Cathedral, they are obviously fighter battles, and just as obviously NOT anti-aircraft fire, they AREN'T obscured by much bomb smoke because fighter battles tend to PRECEDE major bombing, as the bombers wouldn't be able to survive fighter attacks. The defending fighters would have had to be "cleared" first, which is what happened.
As they AREN'T identical, (and yet one can see elements common to both) these pictures VALIDATE EACH OTHER. (I'm not sure that a NASA site would use "made up" material. Why would they need to, in this instance?) They are, of course, NOT the only pictures available for validation either…
The right-hand side of the first picture is a more contemporary copy of St. Paul's for comparison.
And here is another picture of St. Paul's, taken somewhat later in the war, where Allied bombers are circling to assemble prior to setting out to attack Germany. In this case one may discern further familiar contrail features such as ice agglomeration, falling, and shear.
This was originally titled "Cessna Downwash" but a better name for it is "aircraft and its wave vortex climbing through clouds". The powerful vortex generated by the pressure difference (inflight) between the topside and underside of aircraft wings is responsible for the lift which keeps the aircraft aloft and also the drag which demands the power input from its engines. The wave vortex of a jumbo jet has been known to cause light aircraft to crash five minutes AFTER the jumbo has passed. It causes "distrails" (negative contrails – ice crystal trail agglomeration and descent) and much furore in the "chemtrail community" where it is thought to be some new and misunderstood aspect of "spraying". In reality it is the "mixing engine" which causes contrails to fill stratospheric layers with ice, and as a consequence, turn blue skies to white skies. (The"chemtrail" community immediately starts coughing!)
Let me quote you one of our "heroes" who calls himself skywitness because he believes himself to be a lone watcher of the skies on the side of the brave and true. (But on the other hand he blocked me immediately from his channel and then pursued me avidly through other channels' comment boxes, claiming his contrail videos were irrefutable proof of "chemtrail spraying"). He asks:
"I would like to know if anyone has seen a rip in the clouds as it was taking place. Was it something that flew through the cloud, or did it just start to appear out of nowhere? I have seen more than a few of these type of rips or trails, but I have never seen how it takes place…"
All I'm asking is that anyone that knows him and reads this, could you get back to him and put him out of his misery?
The USAF transport plane has just released its "decoy" flares into what would have been its invisible wave vortex. Chemtrailers in particular have to realise that this twin vortex extends backwards (and keeps rotating!) for at least fifty miles behind the airplane, and also, whether it is visible or not, it is always there.
These flares, by-the-way, are making the only definite "chemtrails" that can be proven to exist. Wherever this smoke falls, it will provide a few plants with a little extra fertilizer…
….Aaaaah. And of course I completely forgot these:
These have also been fervently denied by the relentlessly science-blind as "figments of a feverish imagination".
Like this:
And this:
And this:
And this:
(Also known as a "Mach Cones"):
Wow! (Conspicuous consumption or what?)
Written by JazzRoc
November 21, 2008 at 1:00 am
Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, contrails, science, Truth
Tagged with 1940, aerosol, agglomeration, air, aircraft, altitude, aluminium, aluminum, ambient, anti-aircraft, approach, arthritis, attitude, barium, battle, bomb, breathing difficulties, carnicom, centre, chem trail, chemtrail, cloud, condense, condition, contrail, degree, descent, distrails, down, droplets, ectoplasm, edge, engine, extend, filaments, flaps, fluctuation, furore, ground, Hawker, heavy haze, high, humid, Hurricane, ice, jumbo, layer, lines in the sky, Luftwaffe, lung disease, manoever, Me 109, metallic salts, mixing, morgellons, NASA, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, pressure, ptb, RAF, reduction, rense, shear, skies, spraying, St. Paul's Cathedral, stormy, stratospheric, strong, supercharger, supersaturated, temporary, tic-tac-toe, troposphere, unnatural cloud, validate, visible, vortex, vortices, water, wave, webby material, wheels, whiteout, wing
Trails Seen from Space
Don't forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
A monochrome view of the North Atlantic Ocean by AtlanticSat shows Greenland, Iceland, the British Isles, and part of Norway. Prominent in the photo is a north-south ridge of high pressure, with cold dry air to the west, and warmer wetter air to the east. Aircraft approaching or leaving this ridge have struck permanent contrail conditions on its west side. The trails are at even intervals which suggest there are only TWO great-circle routes involved (London-New York and London LAX) with regular flights from each. The stratosphere (where the trails are) is obviously moving north-to-south.
The trails peter out approaching or leaving the British Isles, where the wetter conditons don't obtain (for a change).
Chemtrailers must ask themselves why the pilots' aim was so poor…
Here we are centered roughly over Hamburg; Copenhagen is right center top and the Baltic Sea further to the right. We are looking at a "triangle" of air travel activity between Kiel (center top), Berlin (bottom right) and the Rhineland (bottom left).
You can see evidence that the stratosphere is sliding along at possibly 100kph from the northwest – maybe!
I originally thought these were local control surface vortices, but I have been better advised since, by Jay Reynolds. Thanks, Jay!
The Crow instability is a vortex pair instability, and typically goes through several stages:
– A pair of counter rotating vortices act upon each other to amplify small sinusoidal distortions in their vortex shapes (Normally created by some initial disturbance in the system).
– The waves develop into either symmetric or anti-symmetric modes, depending on the nature of the initial disturbance.
– These distortions grow, both through interaction from one vortex on another, and also 'Self Induction' of a vortex with itself. This leads to an exponential growth in the vortex wave amplitude.
– The vortex amplitudes reach a critical value and reconnect, forming a chain of vortex rings.
Initially the vortex pair falls rapidly downward. Perturbations of the vortices from the ambient atmosphere grow in a sinusoidal mutual inductance instability (the Crow instability). Eventually the vortices touch, reconnect and form vortex rings which oscillate, interact with themselves and the atmospheric turbulence and stratification, and finally dissolve. During their lifetime the rings continue to drop, giving rise to the periodic series of puffs often seen in contrail evolution.
These are spin-stabilized and follow the deflected air and take a while to spin to a stop. Ice is precipitated out of the -40 deg C water vapor in the vortex vacua. Altogether an intriguing visual phenomenon!
http://www.cerfacs.fr/cfd/wake_vortex_26.php is a useful reference…
And this low-quality video reveals…
And this high-quality video shows how far our understanding has progressed…
# A vortex (plural: vortices) is a spinning, often turbulent, flow of fluid. Any spiral motion with closed streamlines is vortex flow. …
Vortices display some special properties:
* The fluid pressure in a vortex is lowest in the center (where the speed is greatest) and rises progressively with distance from the center. This is in accordance with Bernoulli's Principle. The core of a vortex in air is sometimes visible because of a plume of water vapor caused by condensation in the low pressure of the core. The spout of a tornado is a classic and frightening example of the visible core of a vortex. A dust devil is also the core of a vortex, made visible by the dust drawn upwards by the turbulent flow of air from ground level into the low pressure core.
* The core of every vortex can be considered to contain a vortex line, and every particle in the vortex can be considered to be circulating around the vortex line. Vortex lines can start and end at the boundary of the fluid or form closed loops. They cannot start or end in the fluid. (See Helmholtz's theorems.) Vortices readily deflect and attach themselves to a solid surface. For example, a vortex usually forms ahead of the propeller disk or jet engine of a slow-moving airplane. One end of the vortex line is attached to the propeller disk or jet engine, but when the airplane is taxiing the other end of the vortex line readily attaches itself to the ground rather than end in midair. The vortex can suck water and small stones into the core and then into the propeller disk or jet engine.
* Two or more vortices that are approximately parallel and circulating in the same direction will merge to form a single vortex. The circulation of the merged vortex will equal the sum of the circulations of the constituent vortices. For example, a sheet of small vortices flows from the trailing edge of the wing or propeller of an airplane when the wing is developing lift or the propeller is developing thrust. In less than one wing chord downstream of the trailing edge of the wing these small vortices merge to form a single vortex. If viewed from the tail of the airplane, looking forward in the direction of flight, there is one wingtip vortex trailing from the left-hand wing and circulating clockwise, and another wingtip vortex trailing from the right-hand wing and circulating anti-clockwise. The result is a region of downwash behind the wing, between the pair of wingtip vortices. These two wingtip vortices do not merge because they are circulating in opposite directions.
* Vortices contain a lot of energy in the circular motion of the fluid. In an ideal fluid this energy can never be dissipated and the vortex would persist forever. However, real fluids exhibit viscosity and this dissipates energy very slowly from the core of the vortex. (See Rankine vortex). It is only through dissipation of a vortex due to viscosity that a vortex line can end in the fluid, rather than at the boundary of the fluid. For example, the wingtip vortices from an airplane dissipate slowly and linger in the atmosphere long after the airplane has passed. This is a hazard to other aircraft and is known as wake turbulence.
Cause and effects
A wing generates aerodynamic lift by creating a region of lower air pressure above it. Fluids are forced to flow from high to low pressure and the air below the wing tends to migrate toward the top of the wing via the wingtips. The air does not escape around the leading or trailing edge of the wing due to airspeed, but it can flow around the tip. Consequently, air flows from below the wing and out around the tip to the top of the wing in a circular fashion. This leakage will raise the pressure on top of the wing and reduce the lift that the wing can generate. It also produces an emergent flow pattern with low pressure in the center surrounded by fast-moving air with curved streamlines. Wingtip vortices only affect the portion of the wing closest to the tip. Thus, the longer the wing, the smaller the affected fraction of it will be. As well, the shorter the chord of the wing, the less opportunity air will have to form vortices. This means that for an aircraft to be most efficient, it should have a very high aspect ratio. This is evident in the design of gliders. It is also evident in long-range airliners, where fuel efficiency is of critical importance. However, increasing the wingspan reduces the maneuverability of the aircraft, which is why combat and aerobatic planes usually feature short, stubby wings despite the efficiency losses.
Another method of reducing fuel consumption is the use of winglets, as seen on some modern airliners such as the Airbus A340. Winglets work by forcing the vortex to move to the very tip of the wing and allowing the entire span to produce lift, thereby effectively increasing the aspect ratio of the wing. Winglets also change the pattern of vorticity in the core of the vortex pattern, spreading it out and reducing the kinetic energy in the circular air flow, which reduces the amount of fuel expended to perform work by the wing upon the spinning air. Winglets can yield worthwhile economy improvements on long-distance flights.
Visibility of vortices due to water condensation and freezing
The cores of the vortices are sometimes visible because water present in them condenses from gas (vapor) to liquid, and sometimes even freezes, forming ice particles. The phase of water (i.e. whether it assumes the form of a solid, liquid, or gas) is determined by its temperature and pressure. For example, in the case of liquid-gas transition, at each pressure there is a special "transition temperature" Tc such that if the sample temperature is even a little above Tc, the sample will be a gas, but if the sample temperature is even a little below Tc, the sample will be a liquid; see phase transition.
For example, at the standard atmospheric pressure, Tc is 100 °C = 212 °F. The transition temperature Tc decreases with decreasing pressure (which explains why water boils at lower temperatures at higher altitudes and at higher temperatures in a pressure cooker; see here for more information). In the case of water vapor in air, the Tc corresponding to the partial pressure of water vapor is called the dew point. (The solid-liquid transition also happens around a specific transition temperature called the melting point. For most substances, the melting point also decreases with decreasing pressure, although water ice in particular—in its Ih form, which is the most familiar one—is a prominent exception to this rule.)
Vortex cores are regions of low pressure. As a vortex core begins to form, the water in the air (in the region that is about to become the core) is in vapor phase, which means that the local temperature is above the local dew point. After the vortex core forms, the pressure inside it has decreased from the ambient value, and so the local dew point (Tc) has dropped from the ambient value. Thus, in and of itself, a drop in pressure would tend to keep water in vapor form: the initial dew point was already below the ambient air temperature, and the formation of the vortex has made the local dew point even lower.
However, as the vortex core forms, its pressure (and so its dew point) is not the only property that is dropping: the vortex-core temperature is dropping also, and in fact it can drop by much more than the dew point does, as we now explain.
To a first approximation, the formation of vortex cores is thermodynamically an adiabatic process, i.e. one with no exchange of heat. In such a process, the drop in pressure is accompanied by a drop in temperature, according to the equation
Here Ti and pi are the absolute temperature and pressure at the beginning of the process (here equal to the ambient air temperature and pressure), Tf and pf are the absolute temperature and pressure in the vortex core (which is the end result of the process), and the constant γ is about 7/5 = 1.4 for air.
Thus, even though the local dew point inside the vortex cores is even lower than in the ambient air, the water vapor may nevertheless condense—if the formation of the vortex brings the local temperature below the new local dew point. Let us verify that this can indeed happen under realistic conditions. For a typical transport aircraft landing at an airport, these conditions are as follows: we may take Ti and pi to have values corresponding to the so-called standard conditions, i.e. pi = 1 atm = 1013.25 mb = 101\,325 Pa and Ti = 293.15 K (which is 20 °C = 68 °F).
We will take the relative humidity to be a comfortable 35% (dew point of 4.1 °C = 39.4 °F). This corresponds to a partial pressure of water vapor of 820 Pa = 8.2 mb.
We will assume that in a vortex core, the pressure (pf) drops to about 80% of the ambient pressure, i.e. to about 80 000 Pa.
Let us first determine the temperature in the vortex core. It is given by the equation above as
Next, we determine the dew point in the vortex core. The partial pressure of water in the vortex core drops in proportion to the drop in the total pressure (i.e. by the same percentage), to about 650 Pa = 6.5 mb. According to a dew point calculator at this site (alternatively one may use the Antoine equation to obtain an approximate value), that partial pressure results in the local dew point of about 0.86 °C; in other words, the new local dew point is about equal to the new local temperature.
Therefore, the case we have been considering is a marginal case; if the relative humidity of the ambient air were even a bit higher (with the total pressure and temperature remaining as above), then the local dew point inside the vortices would rise, while the local temperature would remain the same as what we have just found. Thus the local temperature would now be lower than the local dew point, and so the water vapor inside the vortices would indeed condense.
Under right conditions, the local temperature in vortex cores may drop below the local freezing point, in which case ice particles will form inside the vortex cores.
We have just seen that the water-vapor condensation mechanism in wingtip vortices is driven by local changes in air pressure and temperature. This is to be contrasted to what happens in another well-known case of water condensation related to airplanes: the contrails from airplane engine exhausts. In the case of contrails, the local air pressure and temperature do not change significantly; what matters instead is that the exhaust contains both water vapor (which increases the local water-vapor concentration and so its partial pressure, resulting in elevated dew point and freezing point) as well as aerosols (which provide nucleation centers for the condensation and freezing).
Condensation of water vapor in wing tip vortices is most common on aircraft flying at high angles of attack, such as fighter aircraft in high g maneuvers, or airliners taking off and landing on humid days.
A vortex can be seen in the spiraling motion of air or liquid around a center of rotation. Circular current of water of conflicting tides form vortex shapes.
Turbulent flow makes many vortices. A good example of a vortex is the atmospheric phenomenon of a whirlwind or a tornado or dust devil. This whirling air mass mostly takes the form of a helix, column, or spiral. Tornadoes develop from severe thunderstorms, usually spawned from squall lines and supercell thunderstorms, though they sometimes happen as a result of a hurricane.
In atmospheric physics, a mesovortex is on the scale of a few miles (smaller than a hurricane but larger than a tornado). On a much smaller scale, a vortex is usually formed as water goes down a drain, as in a sink or a toilet. This occurs in water as the revolving mass forms a whirlpool. This whirlpool is caused by water flowing out of a small opening in the bottom of a basin or reservoir. This swirling flow structure within a region of fluid flow opens downward from the water surface.
* In the hydrodynamic interpretation of the behavior of electromagnetic fields, the acceleration of electric fluid in a particular direction creates a positive vortex of magnetic fluid. This in turn creates around itself a corresponding negative vortex of electric fluid.
* Smoke ring : A ring of smoke which persists for a surprisingly long time, illustrating the slow rate at which viscosity dissipates the energy of a vortex.
* Lift-induced drag of a wing on an aircraft.
* The primary cause of drag in the sail of a sloop.
* Whirlpool: a swirling body of water produced by ocean tides or by a hole underneath the vortex where the water would drain out, such as a bathtub. A large, powerful whirlpool is known as a maelstrom. In popular imagination, but only rarely in reality, they can have the dangerous effect of destroying boats. Examples are Scylla and Charybdis of classical mythology in the Straits of Messina, Italy; the Naruto whirlpools of Nankaido, Japan; the Maelstrom, Lofoten, Norway.
* Tornado : a violent windstorm characterized by a twisting, funnel-shaped cloud. A less violent version of a tornado, over water, is called a waterspout.
* Hurricane : a much larger, swirling body of clouds produced by evaporating warm ocean water and influenced by the Earth's rotation. Similar, but far greater, vortices are also seen on other planets, such as the permanent Great Red Spot on Jupiter and the intermittent Great Dark Spot on Neptune.
* Polar vortex : a persistent, large-scale cyclone centered near the Earth's poles, in the middle and upper troposphere and the stratosphere.
* Sunspot : dark region on the Sun's surface (photosphere) marked by a lower temperature than its surroundings, and intense magnetic activity.
* The accretion disk of a black hole or other massive gravitational source.
* Spiral galaxy : a type of galaxy in the Hubble sequence which is characterized by a thin, rotating disk. Earth's galaxy, the Milky Way, is of this type.
# VORTEX – The Verification of the Origins of Rotation in Tornadoes Experiment or VORTEX, field projects study tornadoes. VORTEX1 was the first time scientists completely researched the entire evolution of a tornado enabling a greater understanding of the processes involved with tornadogenesis. …
As explained previously, vortices that come into contact with each reconfigure each other, regenerating intermediate "rings", and ALL vortices will "stick" to a plane surface – like the ground (tornado), or the face of a building (World Trade Center Tower 2).
The Boeing 767, weighing around 180,000 kilograms and traveling at 260 meters/second, was pulling up in about a 2G banking turn before it struck the tower, so the energy it was putting into its (invisible) WAVE VORTEX was twice the normal, it occurred to me, so might not there be EVIDENCE of its existence in the smoke and dust after the collision?
Evidence there is, in embarrassing plenty. Embarrassing for "no-planers", anyway, if they were to be well-informed and curious enough to CONTINUE TO WATCH after the collision took place. An oxymoron, I think.
Check back to confirm this if you like…
So now "no-planers" would HAVE to claim that the video artists that "falsified" these images were experts in aerodynamics as well.
To which the answer is OCCAM…
In this case the fifth… is the trail left by the APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) which is a normal (but small) gas turbine/electrical generator set. As with the main engines, it burns kerosine to form carbon dioxide and steam. As with the main engines, it leaves a trail. But where's it coming from?
"the whole plane is spraying"
When stratospheric air is very clean and stable it may contain MORE water vapour than it does when it is described as having 100% Relative Humidity. The slightest disturbance to it will cause ice crystals to precipitate out of it. It cannot go into super-saturation if there are ANY nucleative materials of any sort in this air.
Here is just such a case, which occurs on occasion in the sub-tropical stratosphere. The trail forms by "burst condensation" into super-cooled droplets which are microscopic initially and can refract sunlight by interference. Over a small space of time these droplets grow progressively as water vapor deposits more supercooled water into them. As they progressively increase their size they run through a progression of light frequencies which they interfere with. This is NOT a refraction effect.
Chemtrailers claim the colors to be indicative of "foreign materials" which is quite the reverse of the truth; only pure water will do this, and only pure air will have become supersaturated in the first place.
The fact that in supersaturated conditions, large aircraft can place thousands of tons of ice into the stratosphere is covered by the paper "Contrails to Cirrus" mentioned in the INTRODUCTION page.
"Gaps" are claimed by chemtrailers as "evidence that planes are spraying". Such gaps will of course appear in any persistent contrail where the stratospheric air RH falls below 100%. Generally, of course, the humidity tails off gradually, and the transition of trail-to-no-trail is quite indistinct.
In THIS case, the "transition" is a hard and sharp right angle. Too sharp, in fact, for a whirling twin-vortex contrail… Close inspection of the "sky" each side of the "gap" shows it to be comprised of a chemtrailer's vertical "airbrush strokes"! Naughty!
Here we have an aircraft actually spraying something; it's fuel. If some in-flight emergency occurs and the plane must make a quick landing, it must first lose weight, for it cannot land at its take-off weight. Some of its fuel must GO.
Chemtrailers are quick to claim this shot as "spraying evidence".
Written by JazzRoc
November 20, 2008 at 1:00 am
Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, contrails, science, Truth
Tagged with aerosol, aileron, air, airbrush, aircraft, airflow, aluminium, aluminum, apu, arthritis, atlantic, atlanticsat, autopilot, auxiliary, barium, berlin, breathing difficulties, british, burst, carbon dioxide, carnicom, chem trail, cold, condensation, condition, contrail, control, copenhagen, correction, crystals, deflected, dry, emergency, europe, evidence, filaments, frequencies, Gas, generator, great-circle, greenland, hamburg, heavy haze, high, humidity, ice, iceland, in-flight, interference, isles, kerosine, kiel, lax, light, lines in the sky, london, lung disease, material, metallic salts, microscopic, morgellons, movement, new york, no more blue skies, norway, not a normal cloud, nucleative, ocean, oily clouds, phenomenon, photo, power, precipitate, precipitated, pressure, ptb, refraction, relative, rense, rhineland, ridge, route, satellite, space, spin-stabilized, spraying, steam, stratosphere, stratospheric, sub-tropical, super-cooled, supersaturation, tic-tac-toe, trail, Turbine, twin-vortex, unit, unnatural cloud, vacua, vapor, vapour, vortex, vortices, warm, water, webby material, wet, whiteout
6 Porkies
Don't forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
"PORK PIE" = "LIE" – Cockney rhyming slang.
"Obviously your alleged credentials are fraud" – has your short-term memory passed away? ONE.
"A true person of Science would step forward and lay all questions to rest" – ditto, and I have. Check my comments here. Check http://www.contrailscience.com. Check http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc TWO.
"You do nothing" – I COULD start pasting again… THREE.
"It is safe to assume that people's claims must have basis" – assuming is the only action you do. Why not educate yourself in science? FOUR.
"I'd like nothing more than for someone to prove nothing is going on" – FIVE.
"You are by far not only a fraud but a coward as well" – GIANT PORKY NUMBER SIX.
What a great porky this one is!
The non-scientific word-association goes aerosol – hair spray – sprayers (truly inspirational!)
But never a thought to CHECKING UP what the REAL MEANING (scientific meaning) of aerosol ACTUALLY IS:
Aerosol – from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aerosol – contamination in northeastern India and Bangladesh.
Technically, an aerosol is a suspension of fine solid particles or liquid droplets in a gas. Examples are smoke, oceanic haze, air pollution, smog and CS gas. In general conversation, aerosol usually refers to an aerosol spray can or the output of such a can.
The word aerosol derives from the fact that matter "floating" in air is a suspension (a mixture in which solid or liquid or combined solid-liquid particles are suspended in a fluid). To differentiate suspensions from true solutions, the term sol evolved – originally meant to cover dispersions of tiny (sub-microscopic) particles in a liquid.
With studies of dispersions in air, the term aerosol evolved and now embraces both liquid droplets, solid particles, and combinations of these.
Workplace exposure
Concentrated aerosols from substances such as silica, asbestos, and diesel particulate matter are sometimes found in the workplace and have been shown to result in a number of diseases including silicosis and black lung. Respirators can protect workers from harmful aerosol exposure. In the United States the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health certifies respirators through the National Personal Protective Technology Laboratory to ensure that they protect workers and the public from harmful airborne contaminants.
Effect on climate
Aerosols over the Amazon each September for four burning seasons (2005 through 2008). The aerosol scale (yellow to dark reddish-brown) indicates the relative amount of particles that absorb sunlight. Anthropogenic aerosols, particularly sulfate aerosols from fossil fuel combustion, exert a cooling influence on the climate which partly counteracts the warming induced by greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide. This effect is accounted for in many climate models. Recent research, as yet unconfirmed, suggests that aerosol diffusion of light may have increased the carbon sink in the earth's ecosystem.
Recent studies of the Sahel drought and major increases since 1967 in rainfall over the Northern Territory, Kimberley, Pilbara and around the Nullarbor Plain have led some scientists to conclude that the aerosol haze over South and East Asia has been steadily shifting tropical rainfall in both hemispheres southward.
The latest studies of severe rainfall declines over southern Australia since 1997 have led climatologists there to consider the possibility that these Asian aerosols have shifted not only tropical but also mid-latitude systems southward.
Oxides of nitrogen (NOx) in the atmosphere are a form of pollution which can give rise to smog and act as a greenhouse gas. Their persistence in the atmosphere is affected by aerosol droplets of water.
In 1964 long chain fatty acids, either naturally produced from marine organisms dispersed into the atmosphere by wave action or man-made, were found to coat these droplets. In 2006 there was a study of the effect of the LCFA on the persistence of NOx, but the long term implications, although thought to be significant, have yet to be determined.
So AEROSOL means this:
Or this:
A REALTIME study of aerosol presence (made by satellite) all over the world may be obtained here, and here is a representative image, from which you can see the satellite passes 90 minutes apart.
There is a video made over a fortnight showing the main aerosol action occurs travelling westward on a line passing through BANGLADESH and the SAHARA DESERT. It is MAN-MADE – the consequence of many hundreds of millions of humans living close to the poverty line… slash-and-burn, cooking fires, forest fires, vegetable farming decomposition, volcanoes…
No aircraft contrails are found anywhere NEAR this line…
So much for the "chemtrailers" and their "the NWO is poisoning the whole world" theory…
What is it?
It's a mixture of invisible element and compound gases; nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapour, argon, neon, and trace amounts of other inert gaseous elements. This mixture keeps us in a healthy condition, and imbalance in this mixture can poison and/or kill us. We would all prefer to be at Standard Temperature and Pressure, which is 20 deg C (70 deg F) and 1000 millibars (14.7 lb/in2).
Standard Temperature and Pressure occur at Sea Level, but the atmosphere may reach up to 200Km or more (the INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION orbits at 400Km and you can bet there's very little atmosphere, if any, at that height!) The following diagram is a graph of atmospheric pressure against height over sea level (altitude). The space station height is three graph-heights higher than the graph below.
There is an asymptotic fall-off of pressure with altitude which is easy to see. This, when combined with the concomitant drop in temperature lends weight to the understanding that the stratosphere cannot bear much loading of contrail ice before it saturates, and cannot absorb more.
The region just immediately higher than the tropopause (at approximately 26,000 feet to 39,000 feet) is the region where passenger aircraft fly, for reasons of safety and economy.
The pressure above the tropopause is one-fifth that at sea level, but at the high cruising speed of 550 miles per hour, there is sufficient dynamic lift for safe and stable flight.
This region is the CAUSE of the "chemtrail" controversy, for it is COLD, STABLE, and INCAPABLE of absorbing large amounts of combustion steam as water vapor. As a consequence this steam cools to microscopically-fine ice crystals, which form – TRAILS behind the aircraft.
And the following is a diagram of air dewpoint and temperature plotted against height above sea level (altitude).
If you look at the dewpoint line (on left) you can see it move continually leftward with increase in height above sea level. This powerfully indicates that with increasing height, the atmosphere is increasingly incapable of absorbing the exhaust water formed by burning kerosine in gas turbines.
Looking at the temperature (lapse rate) line on the right, you can see that it moves leftward with increase in height above sea level, until it reaches the tropopause, where it starts to edge to the right again. You can see that after the tropopause the atmosphere gets WARMER with increasing height. The concave shapes to both dewpoint and temperature here indicate some energy input – either solar 'focusing' from tropospheric clouds, or jet stream mixing energy – it is hard to guess.
Another couple of points. This chart was obviously made on a cold day; the sea level temperature is just sub-zero. However, two hundred metres higher, and the air temperature is five degrees higher. Bumps and dips in these two lines show where you may infer the presence of clouds.
There is much more to learn about our atmosphere than I have given here, but I can heartily recommend this link to the UK's Met Office.
After that you can answer these questions (can't you!).
As further confirmation I strongly recommend AtOptics
And a word to the "wise". There is a lot of scuttlebutt going around which says "Global Warming is just a myth started by our duplicitous governments as a means of extracting additional taxes". Well I remember a time when it was thought we were headed directly for a new ice age.
(This was just a journalistic ruse. The next Ice Age will occur approximately 16,000 years from the present.)
Since then, it is true that government funds are available for the investigation of GW to the detriment of other research, and that horrible thing "political correctness" has raised its ugly head above the horizon, but the facts are too numerous to mention that the climate is warming, but also that other facts remain unmentioned, which leaves a question of politics…
See "Global Warming is a Myth" under G in this blog.
|One of the major purposes of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), as laid down in its Convention, is "To facilitate worldwide cooperation in the establishment of networks of stations for the making of meteorological observations as well as hydrological and other geophysical observations related to meteorology, and to promote the establishment and maintenance of centres charged with the provision of meteorological and related services".
Accordingly, WMO Members operate, in a coordinated manner, complex networks in space, the atmosphere, on land and over oceans. In 2007, Members decided to work towards enhanced integration of both the WMO Global Observing System (GOS) and WMO co-sponsored observing systems such as the Global Ocean Observing System (GOOS), Global Terrestrial Observing System (GTOS) and Global Climate Observing System (GCOS). This concept is called the WMO Integrated Global Observing Systems (WIGOS).
Currently, more than 10000 manned and automatic surface weather stations, 1000 upper-air stations, over 7000 ships, more than 100 moored and 1000 drifting buoys, hundreds of weather radars and over 3000 specially equipped commercial aircraft measure key parameters of the atmosphere, land and ocean surface every day. The space-based component of the WMO Observing System contains operational polar-orbiting and geostationary satellites and also R&D environmental satellites complementing ground-based global observations. These activities are coordinated within the Global Observing System (GOS) of the World Weather Watch (WWW) of WMO. Several WMO Programmes sponsor or participate in the operation of several global observing systems. Other global observing systems, e.g. the global hydrological networks (WHYCOS), function principally on a national or regional level.
Observation programmes such as the Global Climate Observing System (GCOS) and the Global Ocean Observing System (GOOS) will continue to play a major role in improving the collection of required data for the development of climate forecasts and climate change detection. WMO's Global Atmosphere Watch (GAW) provides data for scientific assessments and for early warnings of changes in the chemical composition and related physical characteristics of the atmosphere that may have adverse affects upon our environment. Through its Instruments and Methods of Observation Programme (IMOP), WMO ensures that meteorological instruments, including manual and automatic ground-based stations and space-based observing systems, are accurate and provide standardized data.
WMO monitoring and observing systems will be a core component of the Global Earth Observation System of Systems (GEOSS), aimed at developing a comprehensive, coordinated and sustained Earth observation system of systems to understand and address global environmental and economic challenges.
This is, of course, a silly word coined by me to introduce these pictures of Earth's atmosphere which have been taken by some of the NASA Space Shuttle astronauts from the International Space Station.
I find them most stimulating and interesting. We spend all our time with a "flat-earther" viewpoint, looking up at clouds and failing to see them for what they truly are.
Written by JazzRoc
November 19, 2008 at 1:00 am
Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, contrails, global warming, science, Truth
Tagged with adiabatic, aerosol, albedo, alleged, altitude, aluminium, aluminum, argon, arthritis, asymptotic, atmosphere, atmospheric, axis, barium, breathing difficulties, carbon dioxide, carnicom, chem trail, compound, concave, contrail, coward, credentials, dewpoint, duplicitous governments, educate, element, environmental, equator, exhaust, filaments, focusing, fraud, Gas, global warming, graph, gw, heavy haze, height, horizon, hydrogen, ice, ice age, inert, jet stream, kerosine, lapse rate, level, lines in the sky, lung disease, mesosphere, met office, metallic salts, methane, morgellons, myth, nacreous, neon, nitrogen, no more blue skies, noctilucent, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, oxygen, photosynthesis, political correctness, pressure, ptb, rense, saturates, science, scuttlebutt, sea, spraying, standard, temperature, thermosphere, tic-tac-toe, trade wind, Turbine, unnatural cloud, water vapor, webby material, whiteout
Jet Spray
Don't forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
Alex Jones has always been a louche popularist. No great intensity of thought here – a small brain behind a big, BIG, mouth. The "chemtrail" market was obviously TOO SMALL for hime to consider adding to his own, but, obviously and sadly, it must have GROWN to a size too large to ignore. So here it arrives, no doubt in its entirety, warts and all, nothing too crappy not to have been previously debunked.
Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet.com Friday, July 2, 2010
Scientists now admit that emissions from aircraft are forming artificial clouds that block out the sun, precisely what geoengineering advocates like top eugenicist and White House science advisor John P. Holdren have called for, but the article tries to insinuate that the effect is caused by natural "vapors," when in reality it can be attributed to chemtrails that contain substances harmful to humans. "The phenomenon occurs when aircraft fly above 25,000ft, where the air temperature is around minus 30C. This causes water vapor emitted by the engines to crystallise and form the familiar white streaks across the sky, known as contrails," writes Oliver Tree for the Daily Mail. "Reading University's Professor Keith Shine, an expert in clouds, said that those formed by aircraft fumes could linger 'for hours', depriving those areas under busy flight paths, such as London and the Home Counties, of summer sunshine."
"Experts have warned that, as a result, the amount of sunlight hitting the ground could be reduced by as much as ten per cent. Professor Shine added: "Over the busiest areas in London and the South of England, this high-level cloud could cover the sky, turning bright sunshine into hazy conditions for the entire area. I expect the effects will get worse as the volume of air traffic increases." The report also makes reference to a 2009 Met Office study which found that high-level winds did not disperse contrails that later formed into clouds which covered an astonishing 20,000 miles.
Of course, this is no natural phenomenon as the article claims. Ten years ago, contrails from jet aircraft disappeared within minutes, yet apparently we are led to believe that the same substance is now causing the trails to linger for hours and form into clouds. This is impossible without something within the substance having been changed.
Mainstream science and academia has gone from dismissing chemtrails as a fantasy of paranoid conspiracy theorists to now accepting that they exist but claiming that they are natural and not artificially induced. In reality, chemtrails are the consequence of the agenda to geoengineer the earth in the name of combating climate change, a science vehemently backed by people like John P. Holdren, who in his 1977 book Ecoscience advocated poisoning the water supply to involuntarily sterilize humans as part of a "planetary regime" that would control every aspect of our existence. The fact that such eugenicists are now in control of geoengineering programs that will have a direct impact on our health is alarming.
Geoengineering programs have also been promoted by the Council on Foreign Relations, which is one of the main steering committees behind the implementation of global governance. A recent report issued by the UK government also calls for the UN to exclusively regulate world wide geoengineering of the planet in order to stave off man made global warming. Discussion of geoengineering technology is often framed as a future consideration, yet governments are already conducting such programs at an advanced stage.
The Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Program was created in 1989 with funding from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and is sponsored by the DOE's Office of Science and managed by the Office of Biological and Environmental Research. One of ARM's programs, entitled Indirect and Semi-Direct Aerosol Campaign (ISDAC), is aimed at measuring "cloud simulations" and "aerosol retrievals". Another program under the Department of Energy's Atmospheric Science Program is directed towards, "developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter."
The DOE website states that, "The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change."
U.S. government scientists are already bombarding the skies with the acid-rain causing pollutant sulphur dioxide in an attempt to fight global warming by "geo-engineering" the planet, despite the fact that injecting aerosols into the upper atmosphere carries with it a host of both known and unknown dangers.
The proposal to disperse sulphur dioxide in an attempt to reflect sunlight was discussed in a September 2008 London Guardian article entitled, Geoengineering: The radical ideas to combat global warming, in which Ken Caldeira, a leading climate scientist based at the Carnegie Institution in Stanford, California, promoted the idea of injecting the atmosphere with aerosols. "One approach is to insert "scatterers" into the stratosphere," states the article. "Caldeira cites an idea to deploy jumbo jets into the upper atmosphere and deposit clouds of tiny particles there, such as sulphur dioxide. Dispersing around 1m tonnes of sulphur dioxide per year across 10m square kilometres of the atmosphere would be enough to reflect away sufficient amounts of sunlight." Experiments similar to Caldeira's proposal are already being carried out by U.S. government-backed scientists, such as those at the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, S.C, who last year began conducting studies which involved shooting huge amounts of particulate matter, in this case "porous-walled glass microspheres," into the stratosphere. The project is closely tied to an idea by Nobel Prize winner Paul Crutzen, who "proposed sending aircraft 747s to dump hugequantities of sulfur particles into the far-reaches of the stratosphere to cool down the atmosphere." Such programs merely scratch the surface of what is likely to be a gargantuan and overarching black-budget funded project to geo-engineer the planet, with little or no care for the unknown environmental consequences this could engender.
What is known about what happens when the environment is loaded with sulphur dioxide is bad enough, since the compound is the main component of acid rain, which according to the EPA "Causes acidification of lakes and streams and contributes to the damage of trees at high elevations (for example, red spruce trees above 2,000 feet) and many sensitive forest soils.
In addition, acid rain accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable buildings, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation's cultural heritage."
The health effects of bombarding the skies with sulphur dioxide alone are enough to raise serious questions about whether such programs should even be allowed to proceed. The following health effects are linked with exposure to sulphur – Neurological effects and behavioral changes – Disturbance of blood circulation – Heart damage – Effects on eyes and eyesight – Reproductive failure – Damage to immune systems – Stomach and gastrointestinal disorder – Damage to liver and kidney functions – Hearing defects – Disturbance of the hormonal metabolism – Dermatological effects – Suffocation and lung embolism
According to the LennTech website, "Laboratory tests with test animals have indicated that sulfur can cause serious vascular damage in veins of the brains, the heart and the kidneys. These tests have also indicated that certain forms of sulfur can cause foetal damage and congenital effects. Mothers can even carry sulfur poisoning over to their children through mother milk. Finally, sulfur can damage the internal enzyme systems of animals." Fred Singer, president of the Science Environmental Policy Project and a skeptic of man-made global warming theories, warns that the consequences of tinkering with the planet's delicate eco-system could have far-reaching dangers. "If you do this on a continuous basis, you would depress the ozone layer and cause all kinds of other problems that people would rather avoid," said Singer. Even Greenpeace's chief UK scientist – a staunch advocate of the man-made global warming explanation – Doug Parr has slammed attempts to geo-engineer the planet as "outlandish" and "dangerous". Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, who recently proposed a bizarre plan to send spaceships into the upper atmosphere that would be used to block out the Sun, admits that geo-engineering could cause "conflicts between nations if geoengineering projects go wrong."
Given all the immediate dangers associated with bombarding the atmosphere with sulphur dioxide, along with the unknown dangers of other geo-engineering projects, many people are concerned that "chemtrails" are a secret component of the same agenda to alter the Earth's eco-system. The fact that chemtrails are blocking out the sun, which is precisely what the geoengineering advocates call for, strongly indicates that they are an integral part of this dangerous and wide-reaching program.
The Government Is Already Geo Engineering The Environment – This graphic proposes, "Spraying aluminum powder and barium oxide into high levels of the atmosphere, again delivered by aircraft, to increase planetary reflectance (albedo) and cloud cover." High levels of barium have been found in substances associated with chemtrails. Reports of chemtrails, jet plumes emitted from planes that hang in the air for hours and do not dissipate, often blanketing the sky in criss-cross patterns, have increased dramatically over the last 10 years. Many have speculated that they are part of a government program to alter climate, inoculate humans against certain pathogens, or even to toxify humans as part of a population reduction agenda. In conducting Google searches, one finds discussion, such as this example, of using sulphur dioxide as a jet fuel additive to be dispersed over the world during routine commercial flights. "I suggest that both the sulphur dioxide and the silica particles could be delivered into the stratosphere by dissolving an additive in jet aviation fuel," writes engineer John Gorman, who has conducted experiments to test the feasibility of such a scenario. "We would want to burn fuel containing the additive specifically when the aircraft was cruising in the lower stratosphere," he adds.
In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature. The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a "hallmark of chemtrails." KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or "more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA." The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were "very unusual," but commented that "proving the source was a whole other matter" in its discussion with KSLA. KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that "short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems." The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.
Indeed, barium oxide has cropped up repeatedly as a contaminant from suspected geoengineering experimentation. KSLA also put aerosolized-chemical testing in its historical context, citing a voluminous number of unclassified tests exposed in 1977 Senate hearings. The tests included experimenting with biochemical compounds on the public. KSLA reports that "239 populated areas were contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969." One of the accepted truisms of scientific study is the fact that if scientists are proposing an idea, then those scientists with access to the bottomless pit of black-budget secret government funding are already doing it. It is highly likely that chemtrails are merely one manifestation of "geo-engineering" that is taking place without proper debate, notification or any form of legality, and with a callous disregard for the potential dangers to both our health and our environment.
This is a classic "chemtrails" exposition. It quotes a long stream of irrelevant references and debunked claims as if they were brand new.
One can only assume that Alex Jones weighed the strength of support for this MYTH and decided he would have some of it.
(Some preliminary chatting and preening has been removed)
Buzzard Says:
Not once does this article mention the fact that cloud cover causes a green house effect and increases global warming effect. this article makes it seam that governments are fighting real global warming, as if it is real. that is a farce. It also never mentions that our US government is also behind this crap, or how extensive a problem this is all over the US. Just imagine our Representative are using our own money to mess up our health and food supply.
Green Leader Reply:
The article is bogus, indeed. The problem is widespread among NATO countries. What they do is spray SiO2 to break-up hidrogen bonds in cloud water droplets and reflecting heat back to the soil, increasing global warming. The SiO2 helps create 'false cirrus' clouds. The Barium Titanate and Aluminum are for 'other purposes'. Google Barium Titanate + chemtrails & find out for yourself. The website from Spain I referred just above explains how things are done.
JazzRoc Reply:
1. If silicon dioxide were to be sprayed through a turbofan, it would PLATE and ERODE the exhaust turbine in seconds, the engine would be destroyed in a couple of minutes. Why did they stop flights during the Icelandic ash incident earlier this year?
2. It wouldn't "break-up hidrogen bonds" if it WERE to be sprayed. The SAND on every seashore in the world is made of it, and the SEA is FULL of hydrogen bonds. Don't go near the beach, eh?
3. Aluminum is a constituent of CLAY and is found in SOIL. Mechanized agriculture makes DUST. Dust may become wind-borne. Surprisingly, raindrops may encapsulate it, and LO it can fall in your tray. Proof of aluminized chemtrails?
4. Barium titanate is a remarkable material in a multitude of ways, many of them yet to be discovered. But as a material to be in a trail left at NORMAL height, it would only "work" for a few days. The height at which the expense of doing it proves viable is 80,000 feet, which only fighters and the lightly-built U2 can reach. NO "tanker" gets to HALF that altitude.
5. If you really believe that some specialist chemtrail disinfo site in Spain knows something that two hundred thousand qualified atmospheric scientists don't, then you need to visit a library and ask for help. At least, a library…
Green Leader Reply:
Government troll:
1) Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?
2) The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water's particular cohesive properties.
3) Clay is flake-like and has a high Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). The aluminum dust is nano particulate. When they spray ham radio comms drop. That's how we first found out we were being sprayed metal dust–the ham freaks spoke up.
4) The Barium and other nasty stuff is sprayed at lower altitudes. I've seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks–as if farting. The drones have NO numbers, markings, insignia whatsoever. I used to be a very strong man who could do farm work day in and day out. The detox I've gone through is painful but am recovering my health.
5) Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist.
6) I know how to treat people and dogs from this illness.
7) The NATO generals behind this will be charged, tried, sentenced and imprisoned for crimes against humanity. There's absolutely nothing they can do about it. Nothing. It's Yahweh's fight and he never loses.
JazzRoc Reply:
1) "Who says the stuff can only be sprayed through the exhaust turbine?" – Is it an INVISIBLE spray, then? Then why say the trails laid by the aircraft are "chemtrails"? Surely, if they are INVISIBLE then you wouldn't have noticed in the first place. And if they ARE visible then they ARE exhaust trails. It's YOU that is confused here, not me.
2) "The dust is nano particulate, all it takes is a little bit to interfere with water's particular cohesive properties." – "Nano" merely means VERY SMALL, or measurable in MICROMETERS. The size of a water molecule is 95 PICOMETERS, or at least a HUNDRED TIMES SMALLER. So you want to slice a potato with a battleship?
3) "When they spray ham radio comms drop" – but ham radio comms rise and fall with the passage of day and night, because they are bouncing off the Kennely-Heaviside Layer, which moves dynamically with rising and falling solar illumination. No "spraying" is needed.
4) "I've seen drones fly over my house at relatively low altitudes clearing their chemical tanks" – A pity you didn't video it. Do you know that no-one has managed this? Strange, isn't it? Quite often, people who get older become less physically able. They've be known to die, as well, especially when they pass 70 years old.
5) "Jesús Torres Toledo is a Sephardim Giddeon, a warrior of Yahweh. Yours truly is also one, plus an Ivy League educated environmental scientist" I couldn't care less about your other delusions. Just the delusion that you know anything about science.
6 & 7 prove your delusion.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
JazzRoc is a disinfo agent and for your information the planes spray the stuff from sprayers attached to the bottom of the plane. It is not the exhaust. Furthermore there are lots of video of chemtrails being laid. IdIOT!
fallout4real Reply:
Dude, I can honestly smell the schill emanating from you. Why do waste your time here trying to convince people that what we know is wrong? If your so right why are here? We are just a bunch of crazies!! Why do photos exist of spray nozzles on the belly of these unmarked jets with chemicals pouring out? Why do the pilots of these planes refer to themselves as "human chemtrailer 1? You really need to "Look at the big picture" before you tell us how it is!
JazzRoc Reply:
Yes, you ARE a bunch of crazies. You are keen to slander people you don't know without ANY evidential basis except your pseudoscience and the lies you tell each other.
You're lying now, for I'm merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime's experience behind me, which is WHY I'm telling you that you are a terrorist.
Science is based on evidence. It is NOT based on "evidence" gleaned from listening to confidence tricksters like Carnicom which is designed merely to CONFIRM your anti-authoritarian predispositions.
I too am anti-authoritarian, but it didn't stop me from pursuing a lifetime's career in engineering.
You all exhibit a laziness to conduct proper research, and a fixed rigidty of mind which makes it very unlikely you will ever understand that talking about "chemtrails" gets you straight into
SCIENCE, and scientists will EJECT you vigorously as soon as you begin to spout PSEUDOSCIENCE.
They say that creationists don't understand why atheists laugh at them. Well, the same thing exactly applies to "chemtrailers" with scientists and engineers laughing at them too.
fallout4real Reply:
Jazz you call me a liar yet with my crazy little paragraph, I can capture your attention with out writing a book or double think!! I am a small independent business owner and I don't give a crap what you call me because I don't depend on the system like you, a simple schill !!!! Wake up or shut up you liar!
FreedomLover Reply:
jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and "disinfo" anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better.
Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR. If you were REALLY on the side of the world's people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world's people. The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you're saying there isn't even a problem. So basically we're all wasting our time. In which case you're also wasting yours coming here to debunk a "myth" you are telling us doesn't even exist. NOW who's the crazy one? You don't have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people.
You're busted. Troll somewhere else.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Don't be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don't even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere.
clockwise lives Reply:
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Who is it you think I'm loyal to? I'm loyal to the truth.
JazzRoc Reply:
TIC: "Don't be fooled, this is a secret military op. Most of the reps don't even know about it. The sheeple are everywhere."
(Titters backstage)
larry Says:
Oil in gulf is raining tirds on yo head.
patrick11 Says:
OK, so chemtrails are the same thing as contrails? I thought they were different!
FreedomLover Reply:
They ARE hugely different. Contrails are just jet exhaust that freezes at high altitude then dissipates fairly quickly. CHEMTRAILS come from the specialized nozzles on wings and/or fuselage of a plane and are sprayed out NOT from the engines. This is a deliberate spraying from chemical tanks inside the aircraft. There are videos all over the web that show fairly close-up views of the spraying, and a couple of photos of the planes on the ground. Just google them – chemtrail planes.
JazzRoc Reply:
They can all be found DEBUNKED on the page entitled "'Chemtrail' Aircraft Photos", here:
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Gov. shill alert!
JazzRoc Reply:
Your abuse doesn't constitute a strong argument, does it?
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
None of your science can debunk that we are being sprayed by military ops. If they were so harmless, they wouldn't be secret. But logic doesn't play in, now does it? Continue your disinfo campaign, we will never shut-up about chemtrails.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
How could contrails form from an aircraft flying below a Cumulus cloud, on a beautiful Summer's day with blue sky and puffy Cumulus clouds? Why, at the end of the day was the entire sky a murky haze? Why did I experience sickness akin to chemical or metallic poisoning, shortly after observing these aircraft leaving trails that lasted all day? I never get sick, except for a cold or two, and especially in Summer. Say what you will, but I cannot come up with an answer to these questions except chemicals being dispersed in the atmosphere by aircraft.
Science is not transparent, a lot of things are being done that defy all moral grounds, and a lot of Scientists are on the payroll of big corporations and will "prove" anything they want the public to believe. I'm sorry, but science is no longer noble, it has become evil and without conscience. Proof: the Global Warming debacle. Pure unabashed hokum, and the idiots are still running around like chickens with their heads cut off going "Global Warming, Global Warming, Global Warming. Oh, I forgot Al Gore is a genius and invented the Internet. Hah-hah, there's a great fellow who is standing up for "Science" and "Truth", eh? Got any great quotes from this spokesmen? ( I could use a laff). Things are not all that rosy in the Laboratories, I'm afraid.
JazzRoc Reply:
Contrails can form aerodynamically over the wings of aircraft flying in somewhat warmer, lower and more humid conditions. They look rather different and are cut up by the invisible engine trails. Cumulus clouds normally have a cloudbase between three and fifteen thousand feet, and that UPPER limit is around the LOWER limit for aerodynamic contrails. It seems unlikely to me.
What seems MORE likely is that you mistook a LARGE airplane HIGH up for a SMALLER airplane LOWER down. This is a common mistake to make, as there are no other objects to reference against. To KNOW the true height of an overflying aircraft you need a rangefinder and sextant.
Persistent contrails spread as they fall. Quite often there will be several stratospheric layers each moving horizontally on different headings. This spreads the trail. When the spread trail "meets its doom" it will be at the altitude which has sufficient warmth to evaporate the ice back to water vapor. This will generally be level and flat, so all you will see from underneath is boring greyness.
GW is a rising thermometer. To deny it is the ultimate foolishness. Yes, folks, disregard your thermometers, it's REALLY COOLING. This argument, of course, is a mere distraction from the plain fact that YOU SHOW AND DISCUSS NO EVIDENCE OF CHEMTRAILS. I'm talking REAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. If you feel such evidence unnecessary, then you need treatment, probably for APOPHENIA.
MontgomeryScott Says:
WOW! The 'Y' versus 'X' dicotomy is especially 'active' on THIS PARTICULAR WEB-POSTING!
PS: A way to slightly lighten up the point that is attempting on being made here.
soupofdefish Says:
Funny you all act like you all doubted this until same asshole tells you its so. I grew up next to a base and seen planes all my life. Contrails always faded out quickly. Then one day Around 1980 I noticed them staying longer. I mentioned this to my mom but got the usual shrug kids get. Been talking about it ever since. Then I found internet and seen that many others noticed. Didn't feel so alone after that. I didn't need some dick weed to tell me they are not natural. I was a dumb kid and could tell the difference. What is wrong with the rest of the people that they could not remember when contrails always faded away? The rest of you need some f—ing conviction!
FreedomLover Reply:
Don't be too hard on the sheeple. I didn't know about any of this 2 years ago. At first I didn't want to believe it either. Somebody spraying me like a bug to kill me (slowly)? What normal person would want to wrap their mind around the truth that some jerk they didn't even know wants them dead? It's awfully mind-blowing. And extremely stressful to know there is no way to get to them to stop them. Try to get on one of the military facilities where these planes are based and you'll get shot first, then if you're still alive they will interrogate your arse,probably never seeing the outside of a detention facility ever again!
Johnny Canuck Reply:
Welcome to the club. Sometimes it makes more sense to bash yer head against the wall, than try to convince people as to what is happening, right in their faces. Anyways, good for you and your observations. We've got to keep on pushing, even if it seems futile. Try turning people on to the documentary "Aerosol Crimes" by Clifford Carnicom, it's a real eye-opener.
JazzRoc Reply:
Soupofdefish, FreedomLover, and Johnny Canuck: I've been around airports all my life. I saw my first persistent trail at age ten in 1954. I knew what it was even then. That's the way it is when you are fascinated with aircraft, and learn to build and fly model ones. You might have grown up to study Science and become an aeronautical engineer as I did and actually MEASURED exactly what the output of a turbojet is. Then you would discover that the BRICK WALL you are forever bashing your heads against is actually a PERSONAL PROBLEM. The problem is that of only accepting statements that CONFIRM your prejudices. This is ENTIRELY OPPOSITE to the way Science must be directed in order for it to succeed. Your minds contain only pseudoscience. This will make you into a human lemming, apt to swarm and dive off cliffs when confronted by social pressures.
Tough. Get out of it if you wish to save your neck.
FreedomLover Reply:
Your overinflated ego is so huge I'm surprised you haven't exploded yet. Get out there and blow your horn some more. You're not loud enough yet. While you're at it, blow some more smoke. You're still visible. You want to see a jerk with personal problems, look in the mirror. I already know I'm a jerk, that's why I needed and still need a Saviour. You haven't found out yet. Pity.
JazzRoc Reply:
I reckon being alive gives everyone a personal problem, don't you? Prepackaged solutions involving the superstitions of a nomadic tribe 4,000 years ago aren't likely to solve the problems of the modern world, are they? You have been coddled in an industrialized age, and passively waiting for the chickens to come home to roost. Meanwhile you're carrying out a terrorist attack upon the passenger air transport industry because you BELIEVE, without the slightest proof, that aircraft are poisoning the sky, when it is KNOWN (by air samplers everywhere) that air contaminants are entirely normal, and that the trails visible in the sky, in all their forms, have been known and understood since they were first observed in 1921. This manifestation of your uneducated state strikes at the social cohesion of our society. You ARE the "dark forces" that your "Revelations" predicts.
FreedomLover Reply:
And you are a very intelligent black ops disinfo agent. The proof is all around yet you deny it. I'm anything but passive. I have no intention of denying anyone air transport. This world as we know it, is coming to an end. You yourself don't deny that the air is polluted, and you also deny the source(s) of the pollution. Yes, your horn is loud enough now, you satanic lying freak.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
RIGHT ON sodf! When in doubt use your own logic!
JazzRoc Reply:
I wouldn't know. I'm not in doubt, and YOU are NOT logical.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Oh, you mean you are not in doubt that chemtrails are harmless contrails and you can't recognize any logic from me? I'm trying to tell ya, lay off the flouride, the GMO, the vaccines, stay outta the chemtrails…..it's really hard to think on that stuff.
JazzRoc Reply:
I am in no doubt whatsoever that ALL the trails you see in the sky are HARMLESS.
Fluoride is a soluble halogen salt which is EASILY eliminated by the human body if it meets a SMALL excess. The body REQUIRES trace amounts of it.
Genetic modifications are in general NO DIFFERENT from NATURAL MUTATIONS, except that they are DIRECTED. Natural mutations can be "dangerous" too. I share with you anxiety about some mutational possibilities. I wouldn't want a world full of TRIFFIDS any more than you. I don't eat GM food.
Vaccines aren't "risk-free", any more than cycling is. But they offer a world without epidemics, which is like offering a world without war. Take the opportunity (accept them), or not, where you increase your own risk od disease considerably, and increase everyone else's risk to a certain extent. This latter position is IMMORAL.
I live on Tenerife in the Canary Islands in the sub-tropical Atlantic Ocean. Virtually no overflights…
FreedomLover Reply:
No wonder you're out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren't enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don't see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself.
I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That's not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that's not the case for the rest of the world.
The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can't come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You're under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world's people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it's spent, where it's invested – and by whom. You'll get your answers and it's no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally.
trestradapalma Says:
This is what happens when Americans repeatedly elect neotards who believe they are smart enough to think for the rest of us but who in reality possess the cognitive powers of a stone.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
This is also what happens when you let the Military Industrial Complex do whatever it wants.
JazzRoc Reply:
It didn't want to dumb YOU down, but here you are…
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Oh, you speak for the MIC?
JazzRoc Reply:
Of course not. I was involved politically in the early seventies when the neocons dismantled further education in Britain – being a teacher at that time.
kingkurtis Says:
i sold cars in 2000 in Washington st. (on the coast, Mount Vernon)…in car sales, there are periods of standing and waiting, outside, with many sales staff. I noticed the criss cross lines of what i thought was vapor. What was compelling was that the lines, widened out, and changed what was a sunny warm day, into a totally cloudy day. The individual spray lines, would just widen out and join with the other expanding lines….and you could see the definition of the edges of the now puffy trails. you could actually see the overall sky picture if you will was a textured pattern like a huge quilt. Like a blanket whose pattern is obvious. The people I worked with were as stunned as i was. A few days certain planes actually turned in huge arcs, and went back to where they came from. Leaving a circle cloud….no kidding…Having just gotten internet in '99, i did some clicking and yes this is real. Plane height is not the deal either, if you can count the engines, it aint 30000 feet. Human eye cant discern a plane at 5 miles.3 yes. At least better. Still have spraying here. This summer, it hasnt reached 75 yet. Not since last September….my 2 cents
JazzRoc Says:
"Amateur" people without ANY understanding of how to conduct science have coined a whole new range of terms and created a pseudoscience which has packed the WEB so densely that it has become almost impossible to find REAL SCIENCE in it.
People trying to distinguish the TRUTH through this fog of innocent MYTH and malevolent DISINFORMATION have this task to do:
Use ADVANCED SEARCH in GOOGLE.
Use the EXCLUDE WORDS function to exclude the following words:
Scientists will NEVER use the above words in their experimental reports.
Then search for:
"paper aviation saturated atmosphere contrails"
The last time I looked, this search got 645 scientific research papers.
Any one of them will show the depths of ignorance plumbed by "chemtrails".
The whole concept of "chemtrils" is a worthless and meaningless FIFTH COLUMN, a powerful distraction from solving the problems of respiratory disease, agriculture and industrialization, global warming, global dimming, TRUE conspiracies (whatever they may be), and social cohesion.
"Chemtrailers" are TERRORISTS, sometimes unwitting, sometimes not. It's about time we all dispelled this product of ignorance and fear
FreedomLover Reply:
Wow, how deluded can you get? Peer review is just a bunch of like-minded paid assassins slapping each other on the back. I'm sure there are good scientists out there, but just like any other leadership-related career, if you're not willing to work with the globalists and keep your mouth shut about the real agendas, you end up dead. Exclude all the conspiracies the govt has against us and you get purely the rhetoric and propaganda.
JazzRoc Reply:
We are all capable of self-delusion. All you have to be is unaware.
In your case you are unaware that the Earth has been busy contaminating and decontaminating itself for aeons, and that ALL insoluble material in the atmosphere ends up as sediment on the ocean floor, and all the soluble material will dissolve in the sea.
Exclude Man from this and the Earth wouldn't notice at all.
You are unaware that anybody with science training can spot you at once as a person who merely researches to prove a point you already believe. Because of YOUR belief system there is NO WAY you can ever allow yourself to change your mind. Your mind, in a sense, is ALREADY BROKEN, and any conclusions you come to will be increasingly worthless over time.
Peer review is conducted anonymously or not at all.
The very fact that you adhere to the belief that engine trails contain metals (or biological material) CONFIRMS your lack of reasoning ability, for if that were to be true, the the engine trail GAP would be bright green or brilliant pink/white, the engine would be destroyed in seconds, and NO biologicals withstand 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit.
So you make unsubstantiated and impossible claims, call me deluded, and infer that I'm deluded?
Though never having met a "globalist", I'm sure I'd prefer it to meeting you with your mindless pseudoscience and baseless slander…
FreedomLover Reply:
For your information, the earth doesn't spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet. I didn't know any of this prior to 18 months ago, but reading about it and seeing it happen right before my eyes, putting the pieces together (which you have miserably failed to do or you are a disinfo agent), is what is known as "waking up". I never believed that biologicals and these metallic salts come from fuel exhaust and never SAID that, but are sprayed from tanks inside the planes, not coming in contact with the jet fuel. I stated so in one of my earlier posts. So you really wanted to attack me without bothering to read what I wrote. You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth's people, when they have been QUOTED saying they want 90% of the population gone? THAT is what makes you a disinfo agent. Ignoring all evidence presented except what promotes YOUR theory. Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
JazzRoc Reply:
"the earth doesn't spew metallic salts into the air every day all over the planet"
Yes it does. There are at least 11,500 active volcanoes working day and night. So you're WRONG.
"are sprayed from tanks inside the planes" – INTO WHERE? There are no switches, pipes, or tanks that fit that description. The trails laid as recorded by YT videos are all coming from the engines of passenger jets in the stratosphere. The extraordinary notion that the hundreds of thousands of aircraft half had some sort of "black" retrofit needs some EXTRAORDINARY PROOF, of which you supply NONE.
"You want, by your own words, to exclude all evidence that there is a conspiracy going on in the CFR and other groups to which these globalists belong against the earth's people"
NO. I want to exclude the words of liars and mythmakers from the thermodynamics that occurs when aircraft fly in the stratosphere. While you make up lies about this you must be excluded. Strangely enough, if you follow my recommendations you DO actually find words written by ordinary non-fraudulent and non-mendacious scientists. Science is successful because it includes NO LIES about the natural world. My theory IS that of atmospheric science. I can produce a long list of chemtrail FRAUD. It's the only thing you people cling to. "Truthseekers"? What an irony….
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I guess JazzRoc never heard of Climategate, which is evident by his utter worship and blind eye for scientists.
http://www.rense.com/politics6/chemrl dot htm
If it were up to me, you'd be tied to a chair under the chemtrails everyday. Then we could do experiments on YOU, to see if there are any unhealthy results of the constant exposure.
Green Leader Reply:
I would make him eat chemtrail-contaminated iguana meat breakfast, lunch & dinner for an extended period of time. But then, he might claim he got sick because iguana meat is forbidden by the Torah.
JazzRoc Reply:
Hey, funny! Nothing to do with the topic, though. More to do with you than me, I think…
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I'm just sayin', if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don't you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that.
Bumper Sticker Says:
Chemtrails are like pest spray, and we're the pests!
inalienable rights Says:
To the commentators who claim that chemtrails have existed since WWII and are not new to our skies: I've flown the USA since the early 1950s and at no time did we ever see chemtrails such as we see now. Starting in the 1990s there has been a major, significant, and alarming change. There is absolutely NO resemblance to current chemtrails compared to the 'con' trails of pre-1990s. If commentators claim that chemtrails existed since WWII, they can only mean that there was a sporatic testing done in those years that was not part of the USA or world skies. To say that today's chemtrail world crisis has existed previously is in my opinion, a total lie or misrepresentation. All accurate observers since the 1940s would agree with this opinion.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
Thank you for your info. It's disheartening knowing this stuff is real, and having people look at you like you are a Looney Tune.
JazzRoc Reply:
Well, I've seen the videos of film shot on the 1000-bomber raids which shows the skies turning white with persistent spreading contrails. For about fifteen years there was a bit of a lull in air travel due to the expenses involved bucketing about the troposphere at 250 mph. Then pressurized transport at 550 mph in the stratosphere became possible, and air travel increased by fifty times. All accurate observers agree that persistent contrails (dubbed "chemtrails" by some) have existed ever since they were first created in, er, 1921.
CRASH Says:
I gotta say, I just feel better lately that I havent seen them for a while, I mean, more at peace around the phenom, I took pics, made vids, posted links, joined forums, commented here, and over all, Im kinda tired of it, It stresses Me out, I just came to the conclusion that the planes are leaving long lingering jet trails of Sh8T in the sky, period, Its just that simple, and its depressing and dissapointing and MUST affect the Planet, or WILL eventually, in a very BAD way, I dont care whether its tanker planes or CIA Evergreen airlines or global geoengineering, we ALL see it, all over the sky and theres NO debate on that! If you run your car in a closed garage, it will kill you..RIGHT? so whats the difference? give it some time, a few years, and it will be common knowledge that mankind done F*cked up w/ the planes, the oil, the food, the water, the meds, the vaccines, the wars, the economy, the cloning, the chemicals and toxins in everything, just, be aware of it all man, thats all..
JazzRoc Says:
Those trails are very nearly pure ice – so pure they could probably out-compete your tapwater in purity.
The combusted kerosine and air deep in the heart of the multi-spool turbofan become a mix of nitrogen, carbon dioxide, steam, and trace compounds at a temperature of 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit. This mix is transparent at that temperature, and you see a GAP before the trail forms. That gap represents the time it takes to COOL to MINUS 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
The STEAM part resolves to microscopic droplets of supercooled water nucleated around trace compound molecules, which freeze over a second or so to ice. However, this isn't happening in a vacuum, but in a cold low-pressure mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and water vapor, the atmosphere of the stratosphere.
Water seems simple at first glance, but it has the unusual properties of supercooling, superheating, and supersaturation.
Supersaturation is the property that water has of dissolving in excess as vapor into a TOTALLY CLEAN atmosphere. The addition of ANY FINE PARTICLES into a volume of air in such a cold and supersaturated state will cause INSTANT SNOW.
As these particles of SNOW fall through this supersaturated layer of the stratosphere, they will PUT ON WEIGHT BY A FACTOR OF TEN THOUSAND. THAT is why you see trails. THAT is why I'm telling you it's purer than your tapwater.
DO the math. Of course, you still have the unalienable right to crash, if you wish.
FreedomLover Reply:
Troll alert.
JazzRoc Reply:
Your lying makes you the troll.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
Mind the gap! You know, the one between your ears!
JazzRoc Reply:
Sorry, it's all filled in with an understanding of atmospheric science and turbofan thermodynamics, cosmology, design in the aviation and manufacturing industries, music, and art.
FreedomLover Reply:
Your "gap" is filled with BS globalist propaganda. Bet your eyes are brown.
JazzRoc Reply:
Hazel. Gone over to grey.
As an anarchist for over forty years, "globalist propoganda" isn't of much interest to me, thanks.
It might be nice to have only one govt. There again. it might not. It would depend on its transparency and accessibility. Not having "national interests" to address, there would be NO NEED for secrecy, would there? Except for business secrets.
Freedom is an abstract concept. The practical reality of freedom is that it is the measure of both your ability to ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY and REMAIN VIGILANT. If you fall down with either of these you shall not be free.
You have a problem with both…
FREEDOM and RESPONSIBILITY are mutually-exclusive. THAT is what makes freedom an abstraction.
You may LOVE it, but you CAN'T have it…
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Then drink it moron. You'll never convince anyone here, we don't drink the tap.
TheNorthernSurvivalist Says:
Here in Southwestern Washington, I wonder how much spraying is happening when overcast? Makes me want to take cover when seeing mass chemtrail spraying, followed by clouds and rain. So, how many of ya all have your nuke/chemical survival kits?
JazzRoc Reply:
It will still be happening – even when you don't see it.
Conditions in the stratosphere are STABLE and rarely affected by the troposphere (which you experience).
Ice will come of solution in the atmosphere and deposit itself upon the trail WHENEVER the layer an airplane flies through a stratospheric layer which happens to be SATURATED with water vapor.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Right, that's why these poison planes fly back and forth, round and round, in front of the sun and moon. Tell it to your dumbed down granny.
JazzRoc Reply:
There aren't any "poison planes" – just passenger planes.
There are 87,000 DAILY overflights of the US. That's EVERY DAY.
You see them when you see their trails. You almost never see them otherwise.
You assume, when there are no trails, that there are NO planes. FAIL.
You also assume that the same plane turned round to spray YOU again. FAIL.
You seem as intelligent as my cat. Sorry, Claws.
semicollegiate Says:
It could be that the new fuel efficient engines put out more clean water and that is the reason for bigger streaks. It could be that the planes are mapping out the exact top of the troposphere for future use. They want to know where to place a given technology to get a specific effect.
JazzRoc Reply:
The new fuel efficient engines ARE marginally more efficient, but that isn't the point.
They are TEN TIMES larger than the engines in the Boeing 707s that began the fifty-fold expansion of air travel, and burn TEN TIMES more fuel to make a trail TEN TIMES bigger than they were in the fifties.
The troposphere is an oblate spheroid of air which swivels its axis wrt the earth from summer to winter. It is turbulent, always in motion, and is mapped daily by satellite-borne scientific instruments.
This has been happening since the eighties.
Knowing the temporary topology of the tropopause has no utility for geoengineering because any materials would be rainwashed to the sea the next time a cumulonimbus anvil swept by.
The troposphere is DYNAMIC and TURBULENT.
semicollegiate Reply:
Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn't burn all of the fuel run through them.
The advertisements that I've heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting expirience in maintianing flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever. Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows.
JazzRoc Reply:
"Since efficient engines burn the fuel more completely and since fuel is carbon and hydrogen, fuel efficient engines would output more water and co2, dry ice, than the older engines that didn't burn all of the fuel run through them."
Combustion efficiency was the first thing I studied as an undergraduate. This WASN'T "book-learning", by-the-way, it was "hands-on" a whole variety of internal and external combustion engines, including turbojets. The achievement of near-perfect combustion in a flame tube was well-understood by the Germans and the British by 1940.
No, the "increase in efficiency" of modern turbofans is achieved by ducting and convecting as much heat as possible to the annular ring of compressed air BEHIND THE FAN. This RAISES PRESSURE, and therefore ADDS to the THRUST already contributed by the COMBUSTION PART OF THE MOTOR. Additionally, the cylinder of cooler air around the hotter air reduces the noise which the process makes.
Pressures and temperatures inside these engines are INTENSE: ALL the components that follow combustion are made from very high-grade steel alloys, and are hollow and have cold air passing through them, otherwise they'd be GONE…
The real reason they make bigger trails is that they are BIGGER ENGINES.
"The advertisements that I've heard for Doppler Radar as being nessesary to see moisture in low pressure systems made me think that maybe the trails allow or facilitate somekind of measurement or test. Maybe the pilots are getting experience in maintaining flight at the boundary layer, tropopause, or getting experience with whatever."
A radar system will "see" ANY conductive material which has a cross-sectional length which is SIMILAR to the wavelength of the signal that the radar set transmits. Satellites such as GOES already have laser equipment which can MEASURE the size of ice crystals in contrails or cirrus. Also LIDAR is used from ground stations for the same purpose. You don't have to FLY to collect such data.
http ://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/pub/journals/atlas_JAMC2006.pdf
Also, all long/medium distance large aircraft are directed by ATC to fly at a specific height in the stratosphere. They are NOT directed through bumpy and low-visibility parts of the troposphere, where they might meet transponderless VFR light aircraft, except of course for take-off and landing. "Sometimes equations can approximate dynamic and turbulent fluid flows." Oh, yes!
http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU6M5hAe-TU
semicollegiate Reply:
Interesting info thanks. It stands to reason that engines are bigger because classes of planes which had 4 engines in the past now typically have 2 engines. I didn't know that this was from a 10 fold increase in power. Unstated but in mind by me, my mistake, was that more efficient engines have cleaner, simpler, purer exhaust. Impurities usually cause agglutinization and therefore cleaner exhaust leaves more individual particles. More particles means larger volume, larger surface area, and bigger trails.
I think the chemtrail assertion is not proven but is possible. Your comment, the fact about Arkansas being a Barium mining area, thanks again, is something I would have noticed before I made a final judgment about it.
At the Prison Planet Forum, from which I've been banned, I suggested taking samples at the surface of the soil and comparing them to samples taken deeper in the groung. If the Barium was from spraying it would have a higher concentration on the surface. That still would NOT prove spraying because man puts water everywhere and water can have Ba.
In the second point the paper states "It is based upon the fortuitous occurrence of an unusual set of essentially parallel contrails". Some of the contrails that make true believers are single contrails that over the course of hours spread out to cover 20 to 30 % of a clear sky with a dubiously off-white, with a hint of prismatic spectrum, slimy polymer looking cloud.
I have had a few flying lessons in very old Cessenas and I wondered if there is a design of private aiplane in which the pilot could visually inspect all of the load bearing metal. Everytime we did climbing stalls I worried about it.
I bet the formulae in that vortex video are complex functions of god-awful integrals.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
They want to own the world through weather, think about it, he who can control the weather can rule the world! Plus, they can make people sick and kill them slowly, while making millions off their sickness. EUGENICS and WAR is what this is all about!
JazzRoc Reply:
Nobody can control the weather. To make it do what you want, you'd HAVE to relinquish control elsewhere. You need to understand the size of the Earth. (CLUE: its surface area is FIFTY times greater than that of the United States.)
In the US, OVEREATING "makes people sick and kills them slowly". Supersize YOU.
Educated people don't discuss "eugenics" anymore since they understand genetics and evolution, and KNOW that fascist "master race" manipulation will NEVER WORK unless you resort to COMPLETE EXTINCTION. This latter is possibly only achievable through a massive nuclear spasm or an asteroid strike.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
For a scientist, you are pretty naive.
JazzRoc Reply:
For a non-scientist, you are worse than the usual.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
To JazzRockforBrains – http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_control
semicollegiate Reply:
I saw a weather effect in early july 2006, I think it was the 10th. After the 4th anyway. Heading north on I-5 in Northern California there was an unusual storm. Clear sky above and to the east. On the west from the southern horizon to the northern horizon was a solid cloud bank. Looked like fog, like one big cloud, like a rolled tarp, but it was 5000 to 10000 feet up. Right in the middle on the front easternmost edge, was a single cumulonimbus cloud shaped like the forcastle of a sailing ship without the spar. "Laying" on top of that were 15 or so parallel and evenly spaced contrails whose ends formed a circle. Like a webber bbq grill without the ring around edge laying on the front of a 10 foot long model of a 17th century sailing ship. First thing that came to mind for me was HAARP but I suppose formation flying could have caused the same arrangement.
That particular storm caused forest fires throughout northern california, summoned fire brigades from all over the west, and burned until the first rain in October. Nobody else at the couple truckstops I was at saw it.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Keep watching, what JazzRoc doesn't get, is the best scientists are the ones who observe.
semicollegiate Reply:
They are above the law. Or maybe the law is tailor made for them. They don't need us to grow food or beat up their neighbors anymore.
American Truth Says:
Anyone having breathing problems! I am and also lost my voice VCD
Snow Reply:
I am and for some reason, I'm getting thirsty.
Marc Says:
Here in Frankfurt Rhein Main region (Germany) has been covered by chem trails daily for many years.
JazzRoc Says:
This is a quote from a scientific paper entitled "ON THE POSSIBILITY OF WEATHER MODIFICATION BY AIRCRAFT CONTRAILS":
"It is then evident that, whenever and wherever persistent contrails are being produced, the airlines are conducting a seeding operation in which each passing aircraft deposits nuclei in numbers at least comparable to a ground-based seeding attempt. The coverage is global in extent, and while random in the sense that airline flights are not scheduled with weather modification in mind, it is not really random with respect to meteorological conditions."
"Fine," you might say, "this is EXACTLY what we're talking about."
But when was this written?
So what does the page heading "Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds" by Paul Joseph Watson for Prison Planet.com, Friday, July 2, 2010 REALLY MEAN?
Has it JUST suddenly discovered this 1970 science paper? Was this paper secret?
No. The paper wasn't secret. Scientists don't work in secrecy, but TRANSPARENTLY, with both friends and enemies able to read every word they write. They did so then, and they do so now.
This journalist, and Prison Planet also, were slipshod in their work and never got ANYWHERE NEAR where the truth lies. I don't think they believe in real research at all. They only wish to promote their current agenda.
If you REALLY wish to discover the real truth then follow the procedures laid out in my first comment here. If you do, you will rediscover the link I mention here.
For those of you who do not wish to see this, well find something else to do. I think even less of you than you of me, believe me. Don't ask me to go into details.
Dunagan Says:
Sulfur is possibly one of the chemicals eroding the ozone layer, by acting as a catalyst for halides. Once you get rid of that you create an endless dependency on the chem-trailing industry to block UV artificially. Sulfur is considered bad enough that reusable washable scrubbers are require in Australia on diesel vehicles. Synthetic diesel is another solution. The practice in North-America was to add metal nanoparticles to diesel fuel to hide the pollution and make it invisible. It proved to be disastrous to the environment however. Just be warned about Mad Scientists — they will do things that are absolutely wrong at times. The largest chem-trail contractor I believe is the CIA company Evergreen. So the people that have in the past sprayed the population with poisonous chemicals, using people as experimental lab rats, are in behinds this madness. Would you rather trust nature or the CIA to decide what you breath. God give us a break from the insanity.
Green Leader Reply:
Yahweh has taken this matter personal. Watch what will happen to those responsible – you WILL laugh!
JazzRoc Reply:
I'm laughing now.
300,000,000 tons of sulfur dioxide blew into the stratosphere when Tambora erupted.
What happened as a consequence? The Earth cooled by a couple of degrees for a couple of years…
It is NOT POSSIBLE to "get rid of" the ozone layer. Ozone is made CONTINUALLY by the absorption of the energy of SUNSHINE by molecules of OXYGEN.
The season why stratospheric temperature increases with altitude is BECAUSE the by-product of this energy exchange is an INCREASE in thermal energy. The UV wavelengths responsible are absorbed by the TOP of the atmosphere first, and are GONE by the time they have reached as far down as the tropopause. As for the "CIA deciding" what you breathe – I just KNOW you are innumerate with respect to the size of the Earth. The area of the United States is ONE FIFTIETH the area of the Earth.
Fear management is best achieved by EDUCATION. You should try it.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
You should stop listening to the lies of secret military ops disinfo campaign and the nefarious scientist who help create it. Every wonder why so many scientist die every year? All one needs is logic to figure things out. I knew something was up just through observation and having been around before this spray campaign went full on. Scientists tried to convince us of global warming, they destroyed real evidence which didn't agree. Fortunately infowarriors are educated and observant.
JazzRoc Reply:
Their lies or YOUR lies – interest me not at all. You aren't at all aware of how tramelled your mind is, and you've already spent FAR too much time accepting ideas which CONFIRM your preconceptions, and rejecting everything that doesn't fit. In effect, you have damaged your mind. Don't give it a thought. I don't.
FreedomLover Reply:
RBBB Says:
The newscast was from a t.v. station in Louisiana. The pics at the chemtrails section of my website: reverendbillybobbuck.com/aapip are from Louisiana. All taken by me. Be sure to pick up the 3 songs for download, gratis, in the music section. Take it easy.
GoodShootinTex Says:
Hey Truth Brings Freedom, The chemtrails have stopped over Central Texas for about the last six weeks. If the chemtrails were only ordinary jet exhaust, how do you explain their recent vanishing? This is when my friends and family finally got it. I asked them why they didn't see any chemtrails recently? I asked them if JET TRAVEL had suddenly ceased during the past month and a half? Well, what happened, have all the jets been grounded? Have people stopped flying? I don't know why they've stopped, but I am glad they are not spraying us here. Easy way to wake people up, I talk to my sons so that others can here us at soccer games or at the park. I'll say "Wow, why no lines in the sky, nobody flying today"
truthbringsfreedom Reply:
Between flightpath changes (they do change you know) and weather changes, contrails have been that sporadic for my entire life. Not trying to prove you wrong, just relating my personal experience. I can go for days without seeing one jet in the sky, and then see 7 in one day. Same goes for contrails behind the jets. One thing is for certain… long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that. If not, then you're in denial of the truth. And by the way… doesn't Bush live in Texas along with a bunch of other globalist elites? Do you really think he would be poisoning the air he breathes every day. Think. Obviously they take the fluoride out of their water. But do you really think he gets alerts for when they're spraying and goes into a special room with its own oxygen generator and doesn't go outside for 3 days?
dead_squirrel Reply:
Bush bought real estate properties in Latin America, so it would be foolish not to think bush would not travel in there without your knowledge (why not help the extermination of a nation that hates him and fly constantly?). Latin America doesn't get as much chemtrails as other countries because the fraudsters consider it a piece a cake compared to US and it is where many of these small people make their big pharma investments. -squirley
GoodShootinTex Reply:
truth?brings freedom, what do you mean flightpath changes, that is laughable and a complete fraud to even pretend that flights are not taking place over central texas with our civil and military tansportation hubs. Are you ignorant or a troll. Flights take place over my house EVERY day of the year, all year, year in and year out. If they are taking place, and weather patterns are fairly stable (especially in the upper atmosphere) why have the chemtrails stopped? FACT: Chemtrails have stopped for about the last six weeks FACT: Flights have continued
… How much does the NWO pay you to troll?
truthbringsfreedom Reply:
Hey GoodShootinTex, Have you ever seen it go for 6 weeks without raining? I have. That is weather related. There can be perfectly legitimate reasons that contrails are not occurring for 6 weeks. I'm not ignorant or a troll. I'm *not* trying to disprove chemtrailing. I'm trying to get you and inforwars to admit truth as part of getting to the bottom of all this. Let's start with one truth, one piece of common ground we can agree on. There is at least one thing for certain, given the history of aviation photos available to the public. Long lasting contrails did not start 10 years ago. Can you at least agree to that? Well, can you? If not, then you're in denial of the truth. The truth is out there, but instead you see "trolls" and "ignorant people" on the "NWO payroll" if they acknowledge it. You're a nutcase dude.
Also, dead_squirrel, you have no proof whatsoever that Bush leaves TX when they spray. You're just making stuff up to provide evidence for your conspiracy. Sorry, your imagination is not what I consider "best evidence." Also, there are more elitist globalists in TX than just Bush. Let me guess, they all fly to Bush's property together, right?
Also, Wash. D.C. is full of globalists. However, there are contrails all over the skys of DC and VA. and MD, where they all live. So according to you, these people are knowingly poisoning themselves. Does that make any sense to you? Then why do you want me to believe it?
JazzRoc Reply:
A jet exhaust turns into a trail when the increased humidity of the air it has just flown through approaches saturation.
Quite often as the trail expands, the humidty drops below critical and then the trail appears to vanish.
I say "appears to" because, of course, the COLUMN of increased water vapor concentration remains, but is no longer visible.
I can show you vids of long-lasting contrails from 1943, and eyewitness accounts as well.
Whatever the ex-president does (he's probably conspiring somewhere right now). I'm sure he doesn't waste his time conforming to the straightjacket of an ignorant myth.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Plus, watch the sides of the sky, they are still spraying! I have noticed a reduced spraying in the past few weeks in E. TX. Beautiful skies and clouds like I haven't seen in a loooong time.
But they haven't stopped completely. But good idea pointing out that flights are still as normal, but the chemtrails aren't!
dead_squirrel Says:
SO they wanna keep the atmosphere cooler? I say we make it hotter despite the obvious global warming phenom… If all these chemicals go down it's 'cause they are heavier than the air below. If that's so, then the air below them, if hotter, will cause the particles to glide down towards the cooler air streams. Hot air goes up, cooler air goes wherever the wind blows.
I'm gonna try installing mirrors flat on the ground on my neighborhood, every one else may copy this in order to dispel these hot particles to areas other than your home. I can't guarantee they'll work for nightime spraying though. -squirley
JazzRoc Reply:
You will have to modify your theory, because although the temperature gets COLDER as you climb until it gets as cold as MINUS ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DEGREES FAHRENHEIT at the tropopause (25,000 feet), then after that the temperature RISES.
The stratosphere (where long-distance aircraft operate) is STABLE and layered BECAUSE its temperature rises with altitude.
Trails made at 35,000 feet have TWO MILES to fall downwards into progressively-cooling air, and this is what they do.
Particles remaining in a gas cannot have a temperature different from the gas.
In the case of engine exhausts, the gas molecules (of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and superheated steam) take about an EIGHTH of a second to cool from 1,300 degrees C to -40 degrees C.
That's pretty fast…
dead_squirrel Reply:
My guess is that the particles fall at night then. So you're right, the theory needs revision. But at night there is a need to know where the highest concentration of particles are. A laser visible at night and dawn using Raleigh scattering should be a chemtrail hunter's tool. -squirley
JazzRoc Reply:
A GOES satellite is in orbit doing just that. Ground stations using LIDAR are also used.
Of course, these scientists (hundreds of them using the world's finest instrumentation) appear to know nothing, for they find that trails are made of ICE – with tiny NON-METALLIC impurities.
FreedomLover Reply:
Just as in the "global warming" hoax, which proof was leaked (thank you hackers), much of technology and its "documented" results has been hidden from what the NWO calls "sheeple".
The proof was leaked that the so-called scientists cooked the books to make global warming look real, when it is only a scam to push the cap & trade tax through. The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You're obviously in the rich man's camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you're so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water. Come on, it can't be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you've obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people. Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Check out chemtrail busters, they do exactly what you are describing.
GoodShootinTex Says:
Earlier this spring when we were still getting sprayed, I would walk through the lawn and my feet would be covered with a fine grained reddish dust. I would have to wash my feet and legs with the hose. Now that they have stopped spraying us, I don't have to wash that cr@p off my feet anymore. I should have gotten a sample and let Texas A&M tell me what was in it. If it starts again, I will find out. When the Revolution occurs, the people who ordered this upon us should be strung and hung. Buy guns, ammo, food, and water purification tools. See You at the Riots!
crazycanuck Says:
I read recently that sperm whales have high amounts of heavy metals in their blubbler, particularly aluminum and cadmium which are in chemtrails. Aluminum is in treated water supply so could be coming from both chemtrails and water effluent. Not a great deal of pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply.
Insanity Says:
Poison, I can believe, like in Moonraker, kill us all off when they've got the cleanup solution stashed away. I can also picture them triggering an ice age, or even just cooling off the planet a bit to contract agricultural activity and starving off billions of people. I also see them trying to position themselves for an artificial fresh water shortage. Bottom line, these people are sick, twisted and you are all fools for paying anything into their system. Why can't you stop shopping at Walmart, buying new cars, and why don't you buy a lathe or a set of tools or something instead of a worthless plasma screen? Get building your own local system and they can't terrorize you anymore with theirs.
JazzRoc Reply:
I don't believe they have the time for much in that direction. Nor do they have the capability.
The real damage "they" are doing to the US is in allowing groundwater contamination and destroying field topsoil by plowing. With reduced microclimate wind protection (they've chopped down the trees) the topsoil just BLOWS AWAY.
But I'm just talking about manufacturing administrators, local politians, and farmers here…
Who EXACTLY do you mean by "they"?
Highlanderess Says:
All those side effects huh? Well, maybe that explains the behaviors of all the nutcases I have to speak with on a daily bases on my call center job.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Notice on heavy chemtrail days how people seem stressed to the nines.
Green Leader Reply:
1) dogs desperately try to get indoors.
2) birds don't fly around nor sing
3) meteorologists on TV look scared
4) surviving remaining bees stay in the hive
5) there are no rainbows
6) cumulus clouds dissapear and false cirrus appear
7) Green Leader curses the uncircumsized infidels destroying nature
JazzRoc Reply:
That's apophenia. You are looking for signs to CONFIRM your preconceptions. That will REALLY ruin your (or someone else's) existence one day. It's the same sort of behavior which led to the torturing and killing of old single women as "witches". The "test" was to "duck" them in the local pond. If they came up drowned, they were INNOCENT (but went to Heaven, obviously). If they came up alive, they were GUILTY, and were burnt at the stake. NICE.
Any animal with body fat will accumulate heavy metals there. Do you have fat? You're doing it too. Heavy metals are part of the earth, as is Life itself. You will find them in soil. Plants you eat grow in that. Do the metals go straight through them to you? No. Not exactly. The plant wil sequester and excrete the metals. Why? Because aeons ago plants that didn't, died.
You are no different from the plants. You also sequester and excrete heavy metals. You and the plants are both in a state of dynamic equilibrium, and can (and do) take a certain amount of contamination in your stride. Aluminum IS used to DEFLOCCULATE the water supply. It does this job as an INSOLUBLE compound which DOES NOT go on to contaminate the supply.
So WHY would there be "pressure on the politicians to stop chemtrails and stop aluminization of water supply" when "chemtrails" are a MYTH, and there's NO "aluminization"?
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I guess increased cancer, Alzheimer's and asthma, etc., have nothing to do with anything. Just it's in the earth and the earth is causing all these increases in disease despite your beloved scientists/science. I guess volcanoes are causing these increases YA SCIENCE EXPERIMENT FREAK!
JazzRoc Reply:
Everything ALWAYS has SOMETHING to to with anything. Cancers form from irritation and genetic predisposition. Alzheimer's is caused by dietary problems and genetic predisposition. Asthma is an allergic reaction to do with the genetic predisposition of the immune system and exposure to pollens, dusts, and diesel particulates. Your identity crisis follows from your inadequacy in maths and science and a certain gullibility.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, everything is due to genetics. That's science for ya! Get real douche.
JazzRoc Reply:
NO. Everything is due to COMBINATIONS of these inputs with genetics. The inputs are variables. The genetics may respond in multitudinous ways to such variables. Of course, I forget, you're intellectually-challenged. Tip: science is about measurement, calculation, and prediction. That's REAL.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Riiight, science it too hard for us dummies to understand.
TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
Over the past month I have been watching the skies with my binoculars cause that's all I've got. I live about 30 miles from Travis airforce base. Its hard to track these planes but there is a lot of what I call spraying going on. They will spray so much that there will be a haze in the sky as if there was a fire. I'm no scientist but something isnt right here and everyday people don't even notice it. Good luck
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Use your eyes, ears, and all other senses, logic. Yeah man, there is something amiss. Get that s—e on video!
TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
One thing I don't get is if the water crystallizes at 25000 ft at minus 30c then why isn't there trails at night?
Contrail Observations over Southern and Eastern Asia in NOAA/AVHRR data and Comparisons to Contrail Simulations in a GCM
http ://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a778783829~db=all
"400 NOAA-14 satellite scenes from four months of the year 1998 were analysed. Both regions show sufficient air traffic to produce an observable amount of contrails. Thus we are able to measure for the first time contrail frequencies in the tropics and compare it to a nearby mid latitudinal region. The annual average of the daily mean contrail cloud coverage is 0.13% for the Thailand region and about 0.25% for the Japan region. For both regions the contrail cover is largest during spring. The daily cycle shows surprisingly high contrail coverage during night in spite of lower air traffic densities during night time."
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
There are, they love to spray when nobody's watching. Watch when there's a full moon, you'll see 'em flying all around it trying to block it.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Well I don't need a scientific report to determine what my eyes can see.
JazzRoc Reply:
You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say "No", then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed 'beliefs', weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!
Snow Says:
Chemtrails are being sprayed here today as we speak. Having a bit of a breathing problem and I'm getting thirstier.
djjasonxxx Says:
Highlanderess Says:
We are destroying ourselves with chemtrails, big pharma, vaccinations, car exhausts and the crap they're putting in our foods to make them addicting….just to name a few.
JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the leader article: "The DOE website states that, "The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change."
The above statement is TRUE, but the way you interpret this sentence is NOT.
"Forcing" here is a technical term talking about the NATURAL physics that takes place whether Man exists or NOT. It does NOT mean anything to do with Mankind FORCING these changes,
The planes used to fly through the lower atmosphere have devices to PULL IN air to analyze, and NOT to PUSH OUT air to contaminate.
It is TYPICAL in sites like this to push ignorance and nisunderstanding as far as possible, and to hide the truth.
"90% of EVERYTHING is CRUD" – THEODORE STURGEON
"The other 10% is SCIENCE" – JAZZROC
duck Says:
Everyone should record video of any plane spraying a chemtrail with the date and time documented on the video. Then take the video to the FAA and file a FOIA request to find out who owns the plane and, thereofore, who is responsible for the chemtrail. We can then go after the owner of the plane with a lawsuit to try to open this can of worms and make them face the music.
JazzRoc Says:
Texas IdentityCrisis: "To JazzRoc – so you are suggesting this is not a secretive military op?"
It's not ANY SORT of op. It's just what happens when internal combustion engines fly through the stratosphere. It's produced by burning hydrocarbon fuels. It's WATER.
Not only that, but only a ten-thousandth of the water of a large speading trail comes from the plane's fuel.
The rest COMES OUT OF THE AIR as accreting ICE (probably at around 30,000 feet) and RETURNS TO THE AIR (probably beneath 20,000 feet) as it evaporates in the warmer air to WATER VAPOR.
None of the trails you see come from anywhere except the engines – and those engines would be DESTROYED by passing metals through them. Think Iceland and volcanic dust – which is similar.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
So you ascertain, with all your scientific knowledge, yet neglecting logic, that because you believe it, it is so. You assume a lot and your sort of assuming is dangerous. So much for those who lean on science, who've yet to realize science is subject to corruption and those who are of the worlds smartest, murder can even be a job related benefit. Further, you embrace some science and other science you ridicule. There has been plenty of testing and scientific observation on the matter to make it clear, that chemtrails ain't contrails. Therefore you, all by yourself, have discredited those YOU blindly follow. As well as your beloved and somehow in your mind, faultless science. Science may faultless, humans and scientists aren't. The latter are inherently corruptible. Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly, FEMA camps are real, and 911 was an inside job. Climategate has all but destroyed the globalwarming movement, etc., get it? The MIC does not have your best interest at heart. Got it?
JazzRoc Reply:
I don't BELIEVE anything. Science is NOT a belief system. Belief means requiring no physical evidence. Science ALWAYS requires hard evidence, with reason to follow. People are sometimes corrupt, but science is not, nor is mathematics. And, by-the-way, scientists follow SCIENCE, not OTHER scientists.
I embrace science, yes, but "chemtrail" science is an OXYMORON. Those two words just cannot come together without seeming funny. EVERY chemtrailer test or assertion is a FAIL. You guys have NEVER been correct. EVER.
"Chemtrails are real, vaccines are poison, flouride is deadly" – see what I mean? FAIL. You really don't deserve to live in modern times. And the word is FLUORIDE.
"FEMA camps are real" – That's a FAIL on your projected usage.
"and 911 was an inside job" is a FAIL on logical and engineering grounds. You are crediting the Bush administration with FAR TO MUCH CAPABILITY.
"Climategate" "destroyed" nothing at all. It did show that GW deniers didn't mind stealing and privacy intrusion in their desperation to carry out their orders. They represent about 3% of the world's atmospheric scientists. The other 97% DISAGREE.
"The MIC does not have your best interest at heart" That was said by Dwight D. Eisenhower as he left office in 1961. I believed him then, and I still do.
It's YOU that's doing the assuming here. You are concentrating NOT on whether the TOPIC is CORRECT, but on whether or not I am some sort of shill. How, when you so consistently stray from the point, can you EVER be correct?
Science is the closest anyone will ever get to the HARD, PHYSICAL, FACTUAL TRUTH. If you call yourself a "truthseeker", yet deny science, you're heading for a world of FAIL.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence. I reject science that says military airplanes aren't spraying civilians and all our food and water sources with deadly chemical spray, so they can curb global warming. Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible. There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911, if there is you should provide it. Fema camps can easily be located on Google maps, Flouride was used by Hitler to sterilize and dumb down, The MIC is running the black op chemtrails. People who believe everything 'scientific' they hear, without using their own logic are certainly subscribing to a belief system. It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science.
JazzRoc Reply:
"I reject global warming science, where scientist bought and paid for, altered, fabricated, and destroyed evidence" – Reference? Produce it and let's see.
"military airplanes" – Then WHY does almost every YT vid show passenger planes? Do you realize that 70,000 tanker flights would be needed, and that these planes CANNOT REACH the stated altitude of 80,000 feet?
"Scientist are murdered, follow other scientists, and are corruptible" – of course – they're people. But are they murdered etc, in greater numbers than any other sector of the population?
"There is no logic or engineering proof that the buildings collapsed on themselves from fire on 911?" – Yes there is, and you've seen it. You just don't understand it.
I'll tell you a little true story. I was searching for an approximate value for the potential energy stored in a WTC tower, in order to figure out its potential heat value, and therefore how much steel it could POSSIBLY melt if ALL that energy were converted into heat.
The answer is 2,700 tons of steel. (Provided by a "truther" engineer who, for some reason, thought it was necessary to demonstrate that because ALL the tower steel hadn't melted, then there was no possible reason for a pit of molten steel to exist at the base of the towers, other than foul play, etc., etc.)
Of course, in the pit was a few hundred tons of molten steel (out of the 2,700), and the rest of the energy was spent pulverizing concrete, heating up a lot of air and dust, and making a racket.
That engineer must have been as popular as a sausage in a synagogue.
"It would appear you are oblivious to your own inability to understand science" – said the DUNCE to the physics teacher – on the web. Well smack my gob. LOL
FreedomLover Reply:
It's time to stop responding to JazzRoc. This is a troll. An intelligent troll, but still a troll, using "science", which these days is full of liars to prove points that go directly against the evidence and trying to make us all look like fools. Not all scientists are liars, but many are involved in the rape of the earth and its people for profit, and the ones who rebel against the globalists end up dead. JR has obviously NEVER seen a chemtrail. He says a million can testify to what he sees. Probably so, but millions MORE are experiencing the results of this chemtrail fallout. So his points are invalidated. Pure science could fix this earth, but globalists are using pure science to destroy it.
Texas IdentityCrisis Reply:
Yes sir, you are right, he's hell bent.
JazzRoc Reply:
Chemtrailers are TROLLS en masse. Sites like these exist, chemtrailers think, merely so that "truthers" may compare notes and agree with each other.
But there has NEVER been a greater MUTILATION of MEANING and TRUTH than this cockeyed "movement", well, not since Orwell's "1984?
Not a single CNUT can debate rationally or interpret evidence intelligently.
The BEST way to understand one is to INVERT THE MEANING OF EVERYTHING THEY WRITE OR SPEAK.
Without exception, they are ALL on the fast and easy road to F – A – I – L
They all go "JazzRoc, you're OH so perfect, eh?" – (Well, NO, I'm fallible actually!)
ANd Jazzy replies "NO! It's YOU! That's SUCH CRAP! TRY TO DO BETTER – SAVE YOURSELF!"
etc., etc.
Calling normal people trolls when you're one yourself, calling competent professional experienced people "sheep" and "shills" when you all bleat together like a pack of sheep yourselves – these are ESPECIALLY irritating habits you ALL share.
But the way you handle "truth", wow, THAT really takes the biscuit.
FreedomLover Reply:
Oh, and I see you're above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It's not going to work. You might as well give up. The "sheep" have awakened, and they're pissed. Go crawl back into your hole – you're not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you're fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings. I've got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the "circle of the earth" while people still believed in a "flat earth" lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don't – but wait just a couple of years. They'll go fast. It will be in your face.
Lion Reply:
Barium anomaly preceded the KT boundary event. (Is PP's glass the same as Springerlink's orthoclase (silicate)?
springerlink . com / content / v671181266t15g8h /
Abstract Maastrichtian–Danian strata of the Cauvery basin as well as selected sections of NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel record Ba anomalies, away from the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary (KTB) in addition to common occurrences of geochemical and stable isotopic anomalies across the KTB. Ba anomalies were recorded in monotonous shallow marine sandstones of the Cauvery basin (south India) which contain minor amounts of Ba-orthoclase. Barium anomalies were observed also in shallow marine carbonates in sections of Israel, NE-Mexico and Guatemala. Calculation of excess Ba with reference to PAAS (Post-Archaen Average Australian Shale), comparison of coeval geochemical anomalies, depositional pattern and associated petrographic and mineralogical features of the Cauvery basin revealed that while a first Ba peak was related to detrital influx, the second Ba peak was coincident with sea level fall which in turn may have been influenced by emission of volatile hydrocarbons and resultant climatic changes. In view of intrinsic involvement of Ba in various geochemical processes and occurrence of Ba anomalies in K/T sites distributed around the world (NE-Mexico, Guatemala and Israel), it is suggested that probable causes of such widespread Ba-anomalies should be taken into consideration while analyzing end Cretaceous events. These observations support the views espoused by many workers who have stated that the K/T boundary was also accompanied by many non-catastrophic events that might have contributed to environmental stress on marine fauna, as a result of which selective multi-stage extinctions occurred.
I perceive a propagandist theme, in which "Earth changes" are mundane, daily business – caused by mankind, and under its control. 'All we have to is come together…' (agree to collectivist mandates.)
JazzRoc Reply:
Earth changes are OBVIOUSLY not under our control.
As for COMING TOGETHER, are we to take our example from the US?
Religion needs DEMOLITION before we can become a global collective.
Subtleties might be developed AFTER we get rid of the BIG STUFF, eh?
Lion Says:
I find it annoying that humankind is given credit for affecting everything, until there is no wonder left in the natural world; some guy must be causing this, or it is my fault.
The epicenters of earthquakes of inconceivable forces dot the globe. Gas bubbles rise from untouched springs in the hidden tarpits and volcanic mountains of every continent. Yet, one borehole is said to damage the crust beyond repair, because you took the car out on a short ride. Airborne sulfur and glass are blamed on airtravel, because you bought a trinket over the internet.
Many places, with "traditional' character, outwardly, were given entitlements by the govt to keep things the way they were, like game reserves with people living on them. Even as his mental freedoms were stymied, and applied knowledge became overwhelmed with trolls in every media, the little guy knew he witnessed global de-industrialization, for decades. After a global treaty, prophesied in the Bible, people are reduced to fighting on horseback, with swords and bows, but well-kept, well-studied, and well-connected televangelists go through odd, mental contortions to explain it. Most people were never so coordinated with their surroundings as to be certain that hygiene, shelter, and nutrition were natural miracles. "For three [things] the earth is disquieted, and for four [which] it cannot bear: For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat; For an odious [woman] when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress." – from Proverb 30. Aren't these people really asking you to pick up their slack? Your humble pleasures are being taken from you, to cover for the misdeeds of others.
JazzRoc Says:
Quoting from the lead article here:
"In 2008, a KSLA news investigation found that a substance that fell to earth from a high altitude chemtrail contained high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature."
The newscast focuses on Barium, which its "research" shows is a "hallmark of chemtrails". KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or "more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA." The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were "very unusual," but commented that "proving the source was a whole other matter" in its discussion with KSLA."
If you watch this video you can see immediately something is wrong here. It's 68.8, not 6.8, and it's not parts per million, it's parts per billion. So it's actually 0.0688 parts per million. So what of "three times the toxic level set by the EPA"? They are referring to the EPA Limits, as quoted by the CDC: "The EPA has set a limit of 2.0 milligrams of barium per liter of drinking water (2.0 mg/L), which is the same as 2 ppm [parts per million]." So the EPA limit is 2 ppm (2000 µg/L), and the tests actually found 0.0688 ppm (68.8 µg/L), just 3.4% of the allowable limit.
That limit's not really a "toxic level" either. There's no evidence that it would be toxic even at that level (which, remember, is 29 times higher than what was actually found). The world health organization has set a drinking water level of 7 ppm after doing studies into the health effects of barium.
* Samples of water were collected in August 2007, in Stamps Arkansas, by leaving some bowls outside for a month.
* The resultant dirty water was tested by KSLA and was found to have the same amount of barium in it as most municipal tap water.
* The reporter misunderstood the results, and said there was a lot of Barium.
* The reporter now admits he was mistaken, and that he found no evidence for chemtrails.
Debunking EVERY "chemtrail" MYTH, one-by-one:
Oh, yeah.
Stamps, Arkansas, is SLAP BANG in the middle of a BARIUM MINING AREA.
No shit.
Texas Identity crisis: "I'm just sayin', if they are so harmless, why are all the elite so pale? Why don't you sit in them all day and tell me what you think? Oops, my bad, there goes that logic again, and I know you have no tolerance for that."
Are "the elite" pale? I've seen the queen in Southport, and, come-to-think-of-it, yes, she was pale… Are pale people harmful? Do "the elite" live in Tenerife, Spain? Tell me.
FreedomLover Reply:
Looks like it. Sounds like it, smells like it. You must be one of the globalists.
TheExorcist Says:
I told you so.
JazzRoc Says:
"No wonder you're out of the loop. You live in the Canary Islands – for how many years? Of course there are no overflights. There aren't enough people there to bother with for those who are into depopulation. You don't see the crap being sprayed nearly every day over the heavily populated areas of the world. Well, enjoy yourself for the few years you have left before this world destroys itself."
Eight years. There's an hourly overflight from Europe to Brazil/Argentina which strikes heavy trails on occasion. The island gets covered by Saharan sandstorms a few times each year. Now, THAT's an absolute TREAT of particulates. By the way, WHEN particulates are in the air you will find NO rainbow effects. This is a PROOF that chemtrailers are WRONG when they say that particulates cause "chembows". They DO NOT, and there's a million people here who could testify to that.
"I bet you have some great explanation about the oil gusher too, that has already destroyed the gulf of Mexico. You seem intent on trying to convince everyone that there are no conspiracies and that everything is pure science put into practice for the good of humankind. Sorry, pal. That's not the way it is. You live in a place pretty close to what most of us would call paradise. Unfortunately that's not the case for the rest of the world."
I've worked in a few oil site offices, so I know fairly well what must have taken place. The managerial class shares a similarity with chemtrailers, in that they really believe it's possible to BEND the rules of physics. Well it's not, and other people paid the price. So far it all looks very incompetent to me. Horrific.
"The Bible says that in the last days evil men will wax worse and worse. Just when we think they can't come up with any new atrocities, they once again blow our minds. Maybe you grew up and worked in a time when vaccines and technology boomed and were beneficial to mankind. You're under the mistaken impression that the evil men who have taken over our planet would never hijack that technology and use it against the world's people. Listen to Kissenger, Gates, Rockefeller and Rothschilds, among others, spout their one-world depopulation agenda. Follow the money, how it's spent, where it's invested – and by whom. You'll get your answers and it's no neat little package like you want to believe. Better get your head out of the sand – literally."
I'll take no advice from someone who follows the 2000 year old writings of a bunch of semitic natives of the Middle East, thanks. Nor am I interested in the moneyed class.
The world will NOT destroy itself as long as people like me (builders) avoid taking advice from people that cannot build – like you. There's no chance of that happening…
FreedomLover Reply:
My "building" is way different from yours. This world as it is was not meant to last. You completely ignore the warnings gathered from the globalists' own mouths, so when trouble comes to you, you'll still deny that anything sinister is being put into practice. Google the Georgia Guidestones and read the "commandments" carved in stone. Then think about what it means to most of the people on this planet. Think DEEPLY, maybe the truth will come to you. Unless of course you're a globalist yourself and believe that you're above all this. Have a nice life, while it lasts. I'll not be responding to you again.
JazzRoc Says:
Jazzroc: You see the Sun go round the Earth. Does the Sun ACTUALLY go round the Earth? Assuming you say "No", then EXACTLY WHY do you believe this?
Texas IdentityCrisis: "Seriously, you are debating whether or not I can see the planes flying back and forth, round and round, covering the sun and moon with chemtrails? You want me to not believe my own eyes? Your grandeous and general ideas about what people think who come to this site, is rather an obvious training on our supposed 'beliefs', weirdo. Tell your handlers, they write training manuals as poorly as they write history books. Full of s$#!"
You didn't answer my question. Again.
How can you expect to win a discussion point by resorting to abuse? Again.
calisurfer Says:
I have been looking at what is called the so-called chemtrail phenomenon for awhile and pass through here every now and then. It looks like a debunker that makes the rounds also is here. That would be JazzRoc.
People have shouted shill. I doubt that. The dose of clear thinking he provides could serve as an antidote to things some others serve up.
Carnicom was mentioned. If you listen to him we are all infected with something awful.
When approached through email for abc steps in blood work so some people at a university with access to an electron microscope could take a look the silence was deafening. Wrote that one off.
JazzRoc is secure in what he knows, has looked at some of the outlandish claims, and justifiably counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be. He is, however, "stuck," (as are most… notice I did NOT say everybody) in his own world. "I'm merely a retired aeronautical engineer and industrial designer with a lifetime's experience behind me, which is WHY I'm telling you that you are a terrorist." ""Chemtrailers" are TERRORISTS…"
These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through it. Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn't have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest. Strange times. Strange things. And sometimes some very strange things in the sky. I think some things touched upon in quantum mechanics regarding perception and what is real have come into play in some of it. And JazzRoc, I too am obliged by and to the scientific method and mathematics.
People, don't hate JazzRoc. And JazzRoc, don't hate people. Don't use your background and knowledge as an excuse in doing so. Your background and knowledge have their limits. You've bumped into the edges of them and are self-confined.
FreedomLover Reply:
Cali, much of the world's issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzrock doesn't understand is that very few things remain "pure". Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays. Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet. Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others' mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy. THAT is what Jazzroc is failing to see.
Most humane people can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don't even know wants them dead. People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not. We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn't seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that there is another entity loose on this planet (satan), whose hatred for humanity is beyond human understanding. I am speaking to those who have a consciousness of God, but I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ and I will NEVER recant that commitment or be ashamed to call Him Lord and Saviour. We are all going to die someday, whether the NWO lets us live to old age and die in our sleep in our beds (probably not), or something else takes us out. "For it is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after this the judgment." We can deny what God has said all we want, but it's like gravity. There are spiritual laws just as there are physical laws. Jump off a building denying the law of gravity and someone will still have to clean up the bloody mess. How hard can it be to see the truth except when someone has on deception-colored glasses?
And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?
Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified. "Global warming" debunked. Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists "cooked the books", deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they're being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world's people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can't trust these people to have our best interests at heart?
JazzRoc Reply:
"Much of the world's issues start out good. But like anything technological, mental, emotional, spiritual, they CAN be corrupted. What Jazzroc doesn't understand is that very few things remain 'pure'."
One of the FIRST things one does before a match (if one wishes to win) is to NEVER underestimate your opponent. You just have…
"Even the laws of thermodynamics state that everything decays."
Hmm. Yet electrons circle the nucleus of an atom frictionlessly for EVER…
"Whether he believes it or not, the globalists have hijacked science and are using it to play out their agenda, which is removing approximately 90% of the people from this planet."
The last time I looked, the population was still rising, and there were no specially-overcrowded hospitals. The last "mass die-off" I can recall (excluding earthquakes and tsunamis) was 40,000 pensioners in France in 2004 – due to the highest recorded temperatures in France since records began.
"Georgia Guidestones – their agenda is literally written in stone! From Kissenger, Holdren and others' mouths, directly quoted, is the eugenics philosophy."
The snags with this idea are that a) NO-ONE CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE, and b) EUGENICS DIED FROM AN EVOLUTIONARY UNDERSTANDING OF GENETICS. Totally dead, that one…
"Most humane people can't wrap their minds around the fact that someone they don't even know wants them dead."
What's this? YOU obviously weren't affected by the Cold War and Mutually-Assured-Destruction? LOL
"People are precious to God. He created us to have companionship with Him, and He also gave each one free will to choose that – or not."
NOT. You believe words written by nomadic desert tribesmen four thousand years ago in the Middle East, added to by "jobbing" Essene psychedically-enhanced priests in Palestine, and finally compiled by a convocation of cardinals in Istambul? Bravo! Ah, but you were taught to abandon reason from childhood starting at an age when your parents should have been kinder to you, and taught you to respect reason. Tough. Mine were kinder.
"We expect basic goodness from people – using their free will to treat us with dignity, compassion and respect. But when they choose with that same free will to abuse and even kill us, it doesn't seem to make sense until we awaken to the fact that"
Good until this point. Gibberish thereafter. The fact that the lowest human emotion is FEAR, and if these people fear us, it might be we have given them reason to do so. Consider Afghanistan and Iraq. Sure, those people who ARE manipulating the rest of us may well be in "spasm" too. Fear is the LOWEST emotion because of the paralyzing effect it can have on rational thought. Religion uses fear (of death) to manipulate its congregations. Anyone for Heaven? Better than Hell, eh? You don't return from there… eternal torture… God revenges…
Chemtrails uses fear to manipulate its "customers". Colloidal silver, orgone, coriander, anyone? Don't disagree with me, you SHILL.
"And in addition, what else could we expect from liars except lies?"
Well, you're a LIAR, and I expect better of you.
"Anything that can be put down on paper or spoken can be falsified."
Not if it is Science. Until it is. Then, not if it is Science. Keep repeating that.
"Global warming" debunked."
By tobacco interests? What keeps debunking this debunking are mass die-offs of old people in hot weather. There will be more…
"Emails that were not supposed to be made public verifying that scientists "cooked the books", deliberately reported measurements that were not true. So they're being paid to falsify what should have been purely scientific measurements over the course of several years because it fits the Cap & Trade bogus agenda that is being forced on the world's people in order for greed and corruption to prosper. These people have been caught bold-faced lying to the masses. What more is it going to take before we realize we can't trust these people to have our best interests at heart?"
Here your lack of scientific understanding has REALLY LET YOU DOWN. Neither you nor the data-burglars are capable of interpreting the science shorthand employed.
It's rather similar to the ARM aerosol planes. These SUCK. They DON'T BLOW. They are gathering data. What for? Understanding how and why atmospheric particulates are DIMMING the solar flux. They are NOT proof that the PTB plan to spray you.
It all boils down to this:
If you don't know what your talking about, shut up, and go to a library, and study up. Keep quiet until you REALLY know what you're talking about, and before you begin, learn the rules of debate and the pitfalls of thinking, so that you may properly respect the rights of those who may not agree with you.
Notice I say LIBRARY.
"These statements are from someone who is terrified himself. In response to this he may well say he is terrified by the ignorance of others. His reality will likely one day crack. Hope he is able to make it through."
Wrong. For "terrified" read "horrified". I am a cheerful and courageous person who has built and flown his own airplane, and never shied away from a fight. I hate bullies and respond, you might say, very badly to them. It may be the reason I had more than sixty jobs in my working life.
"Those who have witnessed first hand the incongruities regarding regular air traffic and some of what is taking place overhead are looking for answers. JazzRoc doesn't have them. It would be nice if he did, for then the matter could be laid to rest."
Wrong again. Are you afflicted by dyslexia? Persistent contrails were first witnessed in 1921, persistent spreading ones in 1943, they have occurred (as they MUST) EVERY TIME ANY AIRCRAFT HAS FLOWN THROUGH SUPERSATURATED AIR.
Just because apophenics have clustered their myth-making abilities to fabricate "chemtrails" over the last decade, they should be believed? Of course not. They should be TREATED.
You must have missed it before, so I'll restate it right now: there is NO physical evidence as to the existence of chemtrails, just as there isn't to God, Jahwe, Jehovah, Allah, fairies, witches, hobgoblins, and the SPAGHETTI MONSTER.
If there's NO evidence for whatever – DO NOT BELIEVE IN IT, and do yourself a favor. Live your life as best you can, as if it were your ONLY opportunity, for it IS your only opportunity.
DO NOT support the PTB. That's easily done by NOT USING MONEY. Build a passive solar home. Gather your food and energy. Practise PERMACULTURE. Say goodbye to the PTB.
There are some helpful and directing videos here:
http ://www.youtube.com/user/beachcomber2008 And yes, I am a musician:
http ://www.reverbnation.com/artist/artist_songs/38493
calisurfer Says:
"counters some of them though relation of what he knows to be." through. I will be breaking out a new keyboard today. That has been happening too often.
JazzRoc Reply:
I know what you mean. The sides of the keys get rougher over time.
Mothman Says:
We see the spraying, the results and even the jets spraying all over the world. We should ask who pays for this spraying and if this is an international effort are the costs shared?
Knowing who pays should be followed by who controls the whole operation? The jets, the pilots, the chemical transport to the aviation assets, the people? Who are these individuals or groups involved?
We must begin to ask who is involved and why? When they use national security as an excuse, then I would use Congress or the Senate to ensure that what is being done is not some complete and total UN program that impedes on our sovereignty while it forces the American public to pay for something that is designed to kill the populations of the world.
Mr. Clear View Reply:
Look. You've been fed a bunch of hogwash and believe it. Red herrings are thrown at you and you eat them. If it was all designed to kill you, how come you are still sitting and typing?
It's the progeny of the Star Wars program. Toys for big boys. Crud spewed for hitting by rf to make a plasma to play with. Some dedicated planes for when more precision is necessary.
Sub-micron particles of aluminum in jet fuel that are small enough to polish the blades rather than destroy the engine outright in commercial. Any health side effects are besides the point of it all, and are just a bonus. Like a multinational that has one tentacle in the cigarette biz and another in cancer drugs. Are the people that get a paycheck and have the zeal for the toys overly concerned about you? About as much as those who sent and then tracked the soldiers in Plumbbob's Smoky.
FreedomLover Reply:
It's a SLOW kill, just like every other thing these maggots put into place. If they attacked the world's people all at once with a single weapon, the people would wake up and rise up in revolution. Do some clear research on Hitler and what his cronies did to people. These are not simple killers. They are the type that would pull the wings off a butterfly, watch it crawl around for half an hour and then fry it with a magnifying glass. They love misery, suffering and torture. These are not sane or happy people. We have to get over the delusion that they know what's best and have our best interests at heart. They don't. Get over it.
JazzRoc Reply:
You must be simple. Well, simple person, there is NO such thing as a "spraying nozzle" fitted to ANY aircraft which produces the trails you see in the sky. TRAILS are made by COOLING the turbofan engine exhaust down from 1300 to -40 degrees Celsius between 25,000 and 40,000 feet up in the stratosphere. They are made by the COMBINATION of the COLD and the HUMIDITY of the air they are laid in. "Chemtrails" are MYTHOLOGICAL and NOT TRUE. Being FALSE, there is NO NEED to ask who originated them, just as there is NO NEED to wonder whether the SPAGHETTI MONSTER created JEHOVAH. Your UN paranoia is a great laugh, thanks for that.
Lion Reply:
You never explicitly tell us what you would acknowledge as evidence of chemtrails, God, or the criminality of the UN.
JazzRoc Reply:
That would be worthless hypothesizing.
Demonstrate CHEMTRAILS.
Demonstrate GOD.
Demonstrate UN criminality.
They're YOUR ideas, not mine, so DEMONSTRATE them to me.
FreedomLover Reply:
Just wait around a couple more years. There is no convincing you now. But you'll see. Unfortunately by the time you crawl out of that comfortable little shell of a neat little scientific world view that says everything is done for the good of mankind and there are no tyrants, it will probably be too late.
JazzRoc Reply:
Of course there are tyrants. Societies need to kurb them. To do so they need "good intelligence". I couldn't agree more.
But let us consider WHAT intelligence might be "good", shall we?
I'll make the suggestion that BAD SCIENCE, WRONG INFORMATION, EYEWITNESS STATEMENTS, and FRAUDULENT MANIPULATION do NOT produce GOOD INFORMATION.
In time of WAR, the side with poor intelligence LOSES.
Do you want me fighting against you?
Are you waiting for Nibiru? LOL
FreedomLover Reply:
Get thee behind me, satan. You're using your super-intelligence and super-ego AGAINST the world's people. You're exposed and defeated. The minute you deny there are evil people in the world who use everything in their power to carry out a depopulation agenda, your words are no longer worth considering, no matter how logical or book-learned you are. These brutal maggots have MONEY – get it? Money can buy a whole lot of suffering for those they deem unworthy of life. From their own mouths come the words "too many people on earth, we have to do something about this." Here's a good idea. Go to Rockefeller, Holdren, Pelosi et al, and preach your scientific gospel to them. Change their minds about what they're doing. Use your scientific expertise to help the human race instead of killing them off. By your inaction, your complete failure in offering ANY beneficial solutions, you're contributing to the suffering and death of millions. That smells like NWO. Who died and made you God anyway? Who gave you the authority to puff yourself up and say that because you have some training and experience, that makes your life more valuable in God's eyes than some poor half-starved child in a third-world country? Your arrogance stinks.
ShieldsRdown Says:
Danger In The Sky – The Chemtrail Phenomenon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A
JazzRoc Reply:
Has a debunker in its midst – Beachcomber2008. That guy is ME.
DreamToShare Says:
SHINING DUST is what we see now a days. Run your hand on a dusty area and hold it under the sun light, it shines.
truthorconsequence Says:
Interestingly enough, our skies have been suspciously clear since the BP spill happened…could it be that the bulk of those chemicals that have been sprayed via air are now being dumped into the Gulf? Has NALCO been linked to chemtrail related activity?
FreedomLover Reply:
I don't know. We've had no chemtrailing for 2 days now, skies clear of clouds, but a persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore. And electric discharge that used to only happen in the winter.
JazzRoc Reply:
By "electric discharge" you mean STATIC ELECTRICITY. That means your air is DRY.
A persistent haze that makes the throat and eyes sore is PHOTOCHEMICAL SMOG which has been trapped in an INVERSION. Inversions form over cities, especially where the cities are sited geographically in a "bowl" of surrounding hillsides. If you are concerned about the air you breathe then complain to your local govt.
FreedomLover Reply:
They don't listen. Neither do you.
TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
I'm not here to argue I'm hear to ask questions. Why is it when I see a fighter jet as a spec shooting across the sky there's no contrail? Why aren't contrails constant if they are just water vapor? seems to me they are tuned on and off.
The air that creates a contrail is THIN. One tenth the pressure at ground level. It's cold. At this time of the year it will be -40 degrees Fahrenheit. It's humid. It will be 85% Relative Humidity or greater. It's HIGH UP. It will be anywhere over about 25,000 feet. I say "anywhere" because it will be trapped in a relatively thin and flat LAYER (or several of them) anywhere between 25,000 and 45,000 feet. Above this height the temperature is rising with altitude, and conditions become less favorable.
The kicker is that these layers of differing humidity are all TRANSPARENT and cannot be distinguished from the ground. I have noticed that it is possible to spot them from the aircraft by looking at the horizon. Jet streams in these layers are fast-moving and can be fairly opaque with fine ice crystals. Planes passing through them make thick trails in these conditions.
Freedom Lover:
"jr, all you are is an arrogant so-called scientist probably hired to anger and "disinfo" anyone who has their finger on the corrupt pulse of the illuminati. For all your scientific book-learning, you are a fool regarding life, relationships and the hereafter. You have slammed every commenter, trying to make yourself look smarter and better."
You haven't contested a single point I have made. Instead you resort to AD HOMINEMs like there were no tomorrow. These ad homs you can neither prove, nor I disprove. They're TIMEWASTERS. I can understand WHY you would rather waste time than get to the truth: you don't want to lose an argument.
"Take your arrogant attitude where it would be better appreciated, like the CFR."
It is MORE ARROGANT of you to speak from a position of ignorance than it is for me to speak from a position of experience.
"If you were REALLY on the side of the world's people, you would take your sterile book-learning and use it to save the world's people."
I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn't make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer.
"The only solution you are proposing is for everyone here to ignore the problem and it will go away. Oh, wait, you're saying there isn't even a problem. So basically we're all wasting our time. In which case you're also wasting yours coming here to debunk a "myth" you are telling us doesn't even exist."
I'm asking you to IGNORE A PROBLEM WHICH DOESN'T EXIST. There are plenty of conspiracies left to check out.
"NOW who's the crazy one? You don't have any more time left on this planet than most, so there is certainly a more productive use of your time than responding to a bunch of crazy people."
I'm retired already. Your problem, apophenia and ignorance is CURABLE. There is work to do. Finding a counter-effort to the Tea Party and Neocon moves might be a good isea, for instance.
"You're busted. Troll somewhere else."
As you haven't contested a single point of science which I have made, interested onlookers might consider YOU "busted".
Until you conduct a proper debate, it's YOU who is the troll.
FreedomLover Reply:
"I have already told you my experience is hands-on. I have never designed anything which I didn't make, or get made, as a working prototype. I am a fully-experienced machinist. And a draughtsman. And an inventor. And a designer."
Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you're doing is blasting those with whom you disagree. Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth's people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone's face.
I am not an engineer. I don't have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that's really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world's people gone. There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth's weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it. So either you're a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I'll grant you that), or you're so deceived by the world system that you can't grasp the truth. Which is it?
JazzRoc Reply:
"Then why are you wasting your time here? God has blessed you with knowledge and inventive gifts, yet all you're doing is blasting those with whom you disagree."
That's another of my gifts. I should have used it sooner in my life, for sure, but I'm certainly not going to miss the opportunity to use it now. My advice is TRUE and GOOD. Follow it.
"Technology exists that could enable every single one of the earth's people to live in relative comfort, yet here you sit not doing a damned thing to help anyone, but egotistically trying to tell everyone they are wrong. You have not said one positive thing to encourage anyone, but instead used your scientific jack-boots to stomp everyone's face."
You're correct, technology does indeed exist that will EASILY save the Human Race from distress, let alone extinction, and I'll admit I'm NO LONGER trying to do so, that's true, but I DID spend thirty years trying. How long have YOU spent? But you're also quite WRONG: I have indeed offered my best advice here on these pages. If you haven't noticed, yet received one of my boots in your face, it was indeed well-deserved. Look again.
"I am not an engineer. I don't have knowledge of aeronautics and other such things, but I DO listen to people, and have intuitive power to read the intent behind the words. In the case of the globalists, that's really not difficult. These globalists have been quoted as saying they want 90% of the world's people gone."
These people are both cushioned AND alienated, and I'll buy that. I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw them either. But they only have as much power of you as you allow them. If you don't use their money they have NO power over you at all.
"There is declassified evidence that chemtrails DO exist and that they have been used for terraforming and modifying the earth's weather to use as a weapon (droughts, floods). Yet with the evidence right in your face, you still deny it."
Sorry, the scientist in me sees NO evidence whatsoever. You should trust my judgement here – I know, fat chance.
"So either you're a troll, sent here with disinfo (good disinfo, I'll grant you that), or you're so deceived by the world system that you can't grasp the truth. Which is it?"
The only non-troll part of YOU is this SLIGHT tendency you have to discuss something with me. The rest is ALL troll.
"Good disinfo" is a classic oxymoron.
I used to be a warm, open-hearted, and somewhat gullible person in the early sixties. The LAST time I was deceived was around 1984. The man responsible for that deception is in a Los Angeles jail right now facing a 170-year sentence.
"JR, do you really think you're going to escape everything that's coming on the world? You can go join the elite in their deep underground military bases and maybe survive for awhile. But you'll still die one day. What then? I'm trying to be kind in response to your swaggering scoffing, but you make it pretty darned hard."
I have NO WISH to escape the future. However my children and grandchildren deserve better than your poor imagination can envisage. The "elite" have no desire for me, and the feeling's mutual. So I'll die. I won't be worrying after that. Sorry about the difficulties I seem to put you in, but (yawns, forgets)…
"Oh, and I see you're above all that. You obviously are in the NWO camp, trying desperately to discredit those who threaten your cushy little existence by disseminating the truth. It's not going to work. You might as well give up."
Tut-tut. You blow hot, you blow cold… I'm more concerned with protecting the interests of my grandchildren. And my aims aren't THAT high either. I KNOW that what (you might call) CASUAL onlookers are going to think. Let me tell you this. They are going to see a theme with a PERSISTENT OPPOSITION running through it. They can choose either way, it's no matter. There's just NOT GOING TO BE a visibly-consistent consensus. And that will work. The continual dissonance has a way of working itself through the subconscious mind more frequently, and ONE DAY, could be (certainly has been!) years away, you will ask yourself again exactly why you disagreed with me, and re-examine your own motivations for doing so.
"The "sheep" have awakened, and they're pissed."
I used to live in North Wales. Do you know that sheep invented VELCRO? They learned it by sticking themselves to thornbushes (right up in the air). I used to pick them off the hawthorns when their plight become unbearable to watch. A minute or two laughing, then – pluck.
"Go crawl back into your hole – you're not wanted here. So you admit (tongue in cheek) that you're fallible. Fallible people look to God to fix their failings."
No, seriously, I AM fallible. The point is that to be responsible you have to humbly admit to youself that you ARE fallible. You then stand a greater chance of remedying your mistakes BEFORE you make them.
"I've got news for you, poor excuse for a compassionate human being. Science VALIDATES the Bible. The Bible talked about the "circle of the earth" while people still believed in a "flat earth" lie. You want the truth – well, actually you don't – but wait just a couple of years. They'll go fast. It will be in your face."
The Earth is an oblate spheroid. The North Pole is five miles closer than the South Pole to the DEAD CENTER of the Earth. Hot stuff there, dense nickel/iron plasmatic solid core, fission-driven to a temperature as hot as the surface of the Sun.
I live on a small volcanic desert made by a natural, soft "concrete" formed by the action of rainfall on what was once a massive pyroclastic flow. Above me fertile volcanic soils, above them hardwoods and fruit trees, above them pine forests, above them ragged and sour volcanic ridges through which run sleek greyhound-like wild dogs. Below me the shoreline replete with shrimps and other tasty arthropods, crabs, pretty fish, and pretty tasty fish. Get me?
"Just as in the "global warming" hoax [snip] cap & trade tax through."
I thought we'd covered this. The whole thing's a scam by 3% self-appointed experts – with 97% of atmospheric scientists in direct opposition. A bit of DISPARITY there…
"The agenda is to make the rich, richer and the poor, poorer, totally obliterating the middle class. You're obviously in the rich man's camp, so you have a lot to lose if the people wake up and start revolting. No wonder you're so adamant about trying to blow the truth out of the water."
I'm the grandson of a Welsh coal-miner, thanks, with nothing in the bank. I'm part of your "poor, poorer" sector. But as I'm 66 I collect a (slightly low) state pension. My last job was as a physics teacher. I'm married to a physics teacher, too. It just goes to show that you can work hard all your life – and still get SNAFU'd. In a more numerate and technically-competent world – I'd have saved the world. (LOLs insanely)
"Come on, it can't be cheap to live in the Canary Islands. And you've obviously got a lot of time to spend here blasting people."
Of course it can be cheap-ish. It's dearer than the States, I reckon, but the food's better.
As for "blasting" people, a sort of English politeness works with scientists (because the words count) but not with emotional or religious non-scientists. Emotive issues must be raised immediately, in order to draw attention to physical evidence and reasoned logic.
"Post anything, even lies about how WE are messing up the planet, and dump the propaganda on the evening news, and people believe it."
If you are American or British you ARE messing up the planet. It's about time you took responsibility for your situation.
I tried for a very long time, and left Britain with a whole bunch of physical ailments (stress, mostly, with a worsening hay-fever) which have all now departed, mercifully.
All the better to blast you with. 🙂
FreedomLover Reply:
First of all, I'm going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me.
Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you've had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down.
1. Chemtrails are real. You're not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You're not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren't interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine.
2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka "elite", are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don't believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not.
3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won't take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul.
TAKE THE POWER BACK Says:
Jazz and freedom thanks for taking this way out of line and o.t. You two are smarter than I but I know when to s.t.f.u. you might wanna think about that next time you bombard everyone with your b.s.
JazzRoc Says:
"First of all, I'm going to swallow my pride and apologize for letting anger get the best of me. Now, I am going to put this very plainly. I can see you've had a hard go of it. Like most people trying to make it in this world, you got shot down."
Stretching a tenous "belief system" here, thanks for being attentive. I may have been shot down but at least my "parachute" opened.
"1. Chemtrails are real. You're not going to convince anyone here that they are not. Documentaries have been done – at least one – where the govt FREELY admits they have been terraforming the earth. You're not going to get around that, no matter how hard you try. These globalists aren't interested in pure, unadulterated science (they corrupt it all the time to suit their agenda), so even if that were the only reason, they are your enemy as well as mine."
Chemtrails are MYTHOLOGICAL. You managed to convince yourself of their existence without any real evidence, so it is definitely possible to retrace your steps to find out where you took the wrong fork, find a bit of evidence you MISSED, and take a different path.
The ORIGIN of the trail is a case in point. There is a GAP in the trail before it forms. Metal ions would be VISIBLE IN THAT GAP. Metal ions are used in fireworks to COLOR the FLAMES. The engine exhaust is a FLAME. If it isn't COLORED there aren't any METAL IONS.
So it's NOT the engines that are laying the trail – it comes from the body. Now you sometimes see body trails, from the galley/washbasins, and also from the Auxiliary Power Unit, but they are real small, and discontinuous.
So WHERE can these metal particles be coming from?
"2. There is a deeper agenda than you are willing to examine, namely a satanic force loose on this planet. The illuminati, aka globalists, aka "elite", are aligning themselves with the devil. They openly brag about their exploits at Bohemian Grove and their satanic rituals. Even if you don't believe in eugenics, they DO, and they are using their money and power to put it into practice. They are living out what they believe, like it or not, admit it or not."
And they worry me more than anyone does – we agree. The only difference between them and Nazis is they don't seem to have working extermination camps anywhere.
"3. Death gets us all in the end, whether it is asleep in our beds at 99 years of age, or something sooner and more sudden. You scoff at God. Bad idea. He designed you; you are a walking miracle, but you reject His very existence. God holds humans accountable for what they do with His SON, Jesus Christ. If you reject the only way God provided to allow us access into His presence, then there is only one other place you can go, and you chose it yourself. After all, He IS God, and He has every right and the authority to set the limits on who gets into His heaven and the way. This is not MY opinion, and I won't take your slamming personally. I would urge you to consider your immortal soul."
I don't suffer from your over-riding fear, as I have shrugged off my religious programming. I accept that OBLIVION FOLLOWS DEATH. And oblivion is what you fear. Your religion provides you comfort against that fear, and it must be nice. But there is no evidence for life after death.
Your "soul" is the electrochemical CONFIGURATION of that piece of MEAT inside your skull which you call your brain.
Life on Earth began abiogenically, died, began, died, began (etc.) and finally survived to evolve 3.8 billion years ago, and every cell in every SINGLE, SEPARATE living being on Earth is taking part in further evolution RIGHT NOW. NOTHING IS MORE IMPLACABLE AND GOD-LIKE than the SUM TOTAL of ALL that effort. All life is related to itself and forms a tree, the trunk being the original transbiote.
LIFE is the Universe's way of knowing itself. BOTH ARE UTTERLY BEAUTIFUL.
ANY god is surplus to requirements. Especially the Judaic one.
Study the subject of EMERGENCE.
FreedomLover Reply:
You're obviously stuck in your denial. I wish you "luck". You're going to need it. I hope your godless philosophy gives you comfort because that's all you've got. I have nothing to fear, for your information, and I have nothing to gain if you believe or don't except giving the devil a black eye and rescuing one more soul out of his deceptive plan of destruction.
You practice "faith" every day. When you sit down in a chair, when you turn on the water tap, when you turn the key in the ignition of your car, even when you breathe. That same faith is required to believe in God.
You've been presented with the truth. If you deny that God exists in accordance with your godless philosophy, then you don't have to acknowledge Him or account for your sins – and we've ALL sinned at some point. I don't have to worry about God's judgment because I accepted what Jesus did on my behalf. I can sleep peacefully at night, and I do. It seems that your heart and your thinking is hardened probably beyond redemption. But I will pray for you, (already have) that God will open your eyes and that you will not pass out of this life in the same condition you are now. Since you don't want God to "interfere" in your earthly life, there is only one place you can go for that to be permanently true.
You don't have any proof that the THEORY of evolution is real. Where are the transitional forms? Just for a start. Where is your proof that the earth is "billions of years old"? Your theory is full of holes. Leaving this to mere chance would be like expecting a tornado to plow through a junkyard and pop – out comes a fully-functioning 747, let alone a wrist watch. The odds are so great against that, and even with all your so-called experience and learning, only a blind fool would believe such an outrageous scenario. Apparently there are a lot of them, including teachers, or they would not pass on such a farce to impressionable students. Intelligent design is the only way this earth and everything on it could have come about. Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals, and the crown of God's creation, humanity. What are the odds that any ONE of these fully-functioning living beings could survive on their own. Oh, a fish decided that it wanted to walk on land, so it grew lungs and walked out of the water. No, it flopped out of the water – and died! Mutations do not long survive, and mutations NEVER evolve upward. They also do not reproduce (mules are a prime example). Why do living things die when they are poisoned by changes in atmosphere, water, etc.? The earth was designed in perfect balance so that life could be sustained – in EVERY way. The atmosphere, gravity, distance from the sun; need I go on? We were designed for God's pleasure and to enjoy Him. I do. When I think about even colors, tastes, smells, all our senses – God did not have to give us anything except what is necessary for survival. There are blind fish in caves that do just fine. Why did God create (realizing you don't believe in God) dozens of different varieties of fruit – when just one would have been enough? For all your book-learned knowledge, you still are blind.
It takes more "faith" to believe the theory of evolution which has no evidence in fact, than it does to believe in a loving Creator. Your belief system is sadly out of balance, my friend. All I'm doing is giving you something much deeper than your eyesight to consider. I'm finished talking to a brick wall.
JazzRoc Says:
"I'm finished talking to a brick wall." is ironic considering you have not and will not discuss HOW a "chemtrail" gets made, yet you're claiming them to be made.
The need to slavishly adhere to the first primitive writings ever made and reject the basis (science) of the world you live in, hasn't got you killed – yet – but it stands to kill you in the future.
Back a few centuries you guys were hot to apply ropes, tongs and fire to guys like me, and you'll notice the reverse doesn't apply. Why is that, do you suppose?
The age of most things can be determined by the proportions of the isotopes of the elements uf which these things are made. There are many comparisons possible and they overlap.
"Science" time, like the Age of the Earth, differs from "creationist" time – by a factor of 800,000 times. That is NOT an insignificant error.
Evolution will never be PROVED with a SINGLE item of EVIDENCE. It is CONFIRMED by many parallel sets of evidence which agree with each other. In spite of the best efforts of "creationists", NO DISPROOF HAS EVER BEEN FOUND. Nor will it ever be.
When life started on Earth, there was NO OXYGEN in the atmosphere at all. "Thousands of fully-functioning plants and animals" would have suffocated instantly. It took four billion years to produce a REALLY oxygen-rich atmosphere, and before that happened LAND ANIMALS lacked the powerful energy which could be obtained from combusting hydrogen with oxygen – they lacked the capability of STRENGTH.
As I've told you before, YOU are the one advocating FAITH. Science is a working method which does away with faith. In fact, it is NOT Science until it HAS. ANY argument using the word has no place whatsoever in Science. Unless it were the "Science" of faith.
But "faith" is, after all, "confidence", and the first confidence-tricksters anywhere were priests, without a doubt.
I could pick through your tired old and mind-bogglingly-stupid points one-by-one, but this isn't the place to do it. The thread title is "Scientists Admit Chemtrails Are Creating Artificial Clouds" and I demolished this concept in my first post, entirely unchallenged. It's all over.
Opposition to my logic vanished faster than common-sense inside a "creationist museum".
Which is what I expected.
The fact that you think you know what's going on I find very amusing. Also that you're confident that chemtrails exist and you don't feel the need for proof.
What I don't find amusing is that you then deem yourself FREE to slander ANYONE who disagrees with you, that works in the aircraft industry or all the support industries, FREE to disperse blatant lies and frauds across the web, FREE to interfere with the flow of information in society which enables it to heal itself.
I think you should lose your voting power, your citizenship, and gain yourself a one-way ticket to farming kelp and sheep on the Falkland Isles. A hard dose of reality might straighten you out.
It is interesting that the thread appeared to come to a stop at this point.
Chemtrailers employ several techniques to ESCAPE discomfort zones in comments, blogs, and forums. The favorite (apart from direct ad hominem attacks) is a technique known as "astroturfing". This is the cut-and-pasting of LARGE tracts which push short comments immediately over the page and render them difficult to rediscover.
You will notice that
1. They NEVER answer a question.
2. They change the subject,
3. They ignore statements which they dislike without challenge.
4. They work to destroy the logical buildup to a point.
5. They ignore challenges.
6. They make up new theories on the fly to add "body" to their "evidence".
7. They ALWAYS respond to challenge with an adhominem attack. These "namings" allow them to think no further.
8. Just as well, for they HATE thinking in the first place.
9. When in disarray, they slander and lie.
"something is going on in our skies" – Passenger plane flights are at a MAXIMUM probably never to be exceeded in the history of the world, seeing that we have passed PEAK OIL.
You are seeing the normal consequences of civil aviation – burnt fuel in the stratosphere (300 million tons of it per year). You are seeing some of the 300 million tons of WATER.
"spraying seems to be higher during certain parts of the year. Is there anything to this?" – Stratospheric air is seasonally WETTER. In these wetter conditions CONTRAILS are deposited. The number of flights remains constant: you just don't SEE them when they don't leave trails.
"suffering from chronic pain syndrome, Fibromyalgia like symptoms but other than some Arthritis and mild disc herniations" – How old are you? Sounds like normal wear and tear to me. Human beings normally experience trouble with their backs and joints over time.
"I wonder if this is caused by what is going on in the sky?" – Well, my joints certainly tell ME when the humidity is UP!
Jet streams are fast flowing, narrow air currents found in the atmospheres of some planets. The main jet streams are located near the tropopause, the transition between the troposphere (where temperature decreases with height) and the stratosphere (where temperature increases with height).
The major jet streams on earth are westerly winds (flowing west to east). Their paths typically have a meandering shape; jet streams may start, stop, split into two or more parts, combine into one stream, or flow in various directions including the opposite direction of most of the jet.
The strongest jet streams are the polar jets, at around 7–12 km (23,000–39,000 ft) above sea level, and the higher and somewhat weaker subtropical jets at around 10–16 km (33,000–52,000 ft). The northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere each have both a polar jet and a subtropical jet. The northern hemisphere polar jet is situated over the middle to northern latitudes of North America, Europe, and Asia, while the southern hemisphere polar jet mostly circles Antarctica all year round.
Jet streams are caused by a combination of atmospheric heating (by solar radiation and, on some planets other than earth, internal heat) and the planet's rotation on its axis. They form near boundaries of adjacent air masses with significant differences in temperature, such as the polar region and the warmer air to the south.
Meteorologists use the location of the jet streams as an aid in weather forecasting. The main commercial relevance of the jet streams is in air travel, as flight time can be dramatically affected by either flying with or against a jet stream. Clear-air turbulence, a potential hazard to aircraft, often is found in a jet stream's vicinity. One future benefit of jet streams could be to power airborne wind turbines.
Other jets also exist. During the northern hemisphere summer, easterly jets can form in tropical regions, typically in a region where dry air encounters more humid air at high altitudes. Low level jets also are typical of various regions such as the central United States.
Good article and all true most of the visible trails are formed at the wing tips due to the quick change in pressure. Most people do not know how an aircraft stays up in the air. Most think that if the engines stop it would drop vertically. A large aircraft say 250 tons needs 250 tons less pressure on the upper surface of the wings to maintain level flight. So at the wing tips it spills from the under side to the top surface. It is this change in state that causes the visible trails. you can actually tell the coming weather, if the trails are short it is going to be dry the next couple of days. If they are long it means more humidity = unstable air = possible rain or thunder clouds.
The worlds largest source of noxious gases is man himself, no not really, but all mammals produce over 60% of the total CO2 emissions and aircraft less than 3%, so there!
Jonty (I spent a lot of time up there)
Well, JP, thanks very much. I've grown very accustomed to unpleasantness over the last few months and it's almost unique (3 others) and refreshing to have effusive praise for a change. But probably not a good idea to continue it…
I too have just been doing the ironing. About 2 hrs before a painful crick in the neck forced me to stop. Then a dip in the pool to cool down…
Perhaps we can agree on collaborative material later. I too have a prog-geek friend (Borland) who is a great buddy.
Good luck with your op. No-one's any good if their back's no good. I know of people who have made complete recovery from such an op, so don't worry. It should change your life, although recuperation is soooo long that it won't seem that way.
I've never even HEARD of Live-Video so do tell me more.
No – I haven't FOUND JazzrocISaSPOOK. I can feel my pulse increase. I don't think I WANT to find it. One channel got so desperate as to write to itself as JazzrocK and say they were OK etc.
Concerned Citizens against the Patriot Act:
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
commenting in 'Barium Chemtrails' in Contrailscience.com 22 Feb 2009.
Someone else with the keen nose for deceit that Jay Reynolds has:
Just in case someone on this blog might want to create your own conspiracy theory so you can have something new to talk about (this blog is really interesting, but this one has been beaten to death by both sides here), here is a step-by-step approach to creating your own custom conspiracy theory.
1. Pick your bad guy – government, big corporations etc. Ideally also pick on some shadowy, cult-like organization which can supposedly be connected with your adversary. (I know The Da Vinci Code is fictional but, hey, Opus Dei was a good pick!).
2. Pick a major current event to base your theory on – especially an unexpected, shocking, visual event that's shared.
3. Develop your story – pick & choose your source info, construct a compelling story from it, and hey if something doesn't fit your story, reinterpret it! Sow uncertainty, query the official evidence, and find new facts contradicting it. (Work on your postulates and corollaries)
4. Prepare your defense – be prepared to tweak your conspiracy theory around the edges should anyone point out any inconsistencies etc, but always hold to the core theory, emphasizing that it's just a question of getting the evidence to prove its truth. And if others question your theory, well they must be in on the conspiracy too, mustn't they?
After this is done, I would say that the best thing to do to make sure that you are able to sustain the theory in the public is to keep your personal dopamine level high. That will keep you attentive to daily and personal details that can support your theory, help you feel good about it, and do a lot to decrease your short term memory (letting you forget things not in your personal experience that don't support your theory). It will also help if the first people you expose to the theory that are feeling somewhat alienated, disenfranchised and disaffected related to your bad guy, as these people will be the group that will turn out to be your base. It's better if this group is somewhat monotheistic (not just about religion) or not interested in a lot of open dialog about a subject, but that is not entirely necessary, as long as they are fairly certain in their belief system. It doesn't really matter what the belief system is, as long as they are fairly strong adherents to one system and are not too interested in open dialog. Try to encourage them to keep their dopamine levels high too; it will pay off in keeping your base faithful and supportive.
Right now is a time when we have perfect storm conditions when it comes to the creation of conspiracy theories, so I recommend that you make your picks and get started. The elements are currently in place that are necessary for the creation of a new and widely held conspiracy that has staying power:
1. Need to have a group of people, a significant portion of the population, that are feeling a bit alienated from the system. George Bush saw to putting this one in place.
2. A sub-group of these people need to have a tendency to distrust other people. This is where your monotheists come into play. There are many groups that could work for this purpose, one of which frequents this blog.
3. The best time to introduce a new conspiracy theory is when there is a feeling of insecurity when it comes to continued employment. I don't think you could pick a better time in our lifetime (so far).
I hope that this is helpful in giving anyone interested some guidelines in setting up a useful conspiracy theory that will serve you well in parties you attend. Through the internet, a new theory can get moving pretty quickly, once you get the basics planned out and have a base you have identified and who are aware of your theory. If you can put some thought into the postulates supporting your theory, you'll find that this will play a very big part in creating a successful conspiracy theory. Base it on some good postulates that can be objectively proved and demonstrated. It will make conversations and arguments you have concerning your theory fairly strong, and most people, not being familiar with scientific method, will be overwhelmed by the attention to detail and just simply give up. (On the other hand, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t. If someone doesn't know a lot or is not impressed with the details, it's possible that outright lies will work as well.)
Good luck and have fun. I look forward to seeing if anything interesting comes out of this post. I am not the author of all this material, but have had an interest in studying conspiracy theories since my psychology classes in college in the 60's, and because of the perfect storm conditions right now, I'm interested to see what might come up. Consider this a bit of cloud seeding…
Svetlana Kapenina is the most impressive pilot I have seen – ever.
Perhaps its because I prefer looking at beautiful women, but for me it isn't all looks. It's also ability, wit, intelligence, and competence. Well, this woman sure is competent. If I could travel in time, I would… never mind.
Peter Besenyei? Yeah, he's there…
Don't forget to select full screen for maximum impact.
"difficult to believe/time/chemtrail videos/comments/denial of their existence" – Snap. I find it difficult to believe you believe such baseless crap.
"i watched/blue sky/outer banks turn/mass of cirrus like clouds/emit from planes" – Aviation is BIG BUSINESS. They are MULTINATIONALS. They burn a MILLION TONS OF KEROSINE EACH DAY. It makes a MILLION TONS OF ICE, as a FINE WHITE SMOKE, and puts it into the stratosphere, which is so cold and pre-saturated with water vapor that IT CANNOT ABSORB THAT ICE AS WATER VAPOR.
"stayed/ hours/ passing out of site/ followed/ same/ cloud/ upwind/ happens every day all year" – That's BIG BUSINESS for you. It NEVER STOPS.
"looked/information you say is proof/no worry" – An ESSENTIAL PART of the process is that you UNDERSTAND the proof, which can only be done by your own effort of READING SCIENCE. If you don't check out the science, then you won't understand what you read, and you'll start believing CT claptrap.
"you know for a fact/harmful" – Now, stand back and analyze YOUR statement. What do you mean? How CAN you assert that? What EVIDENCE do you have?
"govt/cover/up" – I don't know how they can cover up passenger flights. Do you mean military flights? I thought the whole purpose of military activities were SECRET: if they were KNOWN, they wouldn't be a DEFENSE.
"military brat/believe that you cognitive senses/failed" – Another WITLESS assertion. I can think and reason and spell and write better than you, and I guess I can calculate, compose, draw, engineer, drive, fly, invent tools and speak languages better than you. You don't seem much good at anything…
"believe the bullshit you say" – You have already LIED on this page. For many years, I have never had reason to lie. I don't propose to do so for any reason whatsoever.
"If/actually have/family" – http://www.myspace.com/jazzroc shows all that's interesting in my world.
"hard to believe/so ignorant/obvious truth" – YOU are the one who is the wrong side of the mirror. Get a life and stop believing. UNDERSTANDING Science DOES NOT REQUIRE BELIEF. You wouldn't know the TRUTH if it hit you in the face.
"affects/kills us daily" – I can see you're AFFECTED.
Let's consider for a moment the concept of DEPOPULATION. (Assuming you believe we're manipulated by EVIL REPTILES!) The STABILITY OF A SPECIES (in this case, Man) depends on the depth of his GENE POOL. An 85% CULL would NOT leave you 15%, as you might imagine, but is more likely to be an EXTINCTION EVENT, due to reduction in the gene bandwidth (look up species stability). The reptiles are presumably wanting servants to remain, so they aren't going to do that, are they? Assuming there are NO reptiles, the same result obtains. So CULLING IS OUT.
The Global Warming/Dimming problem is cheaply adjustable by remote-controlled salt-spray trimarans which work out THOUSANDS OF TIMES CHEAPER THAN ALUMINUM/BARIUM AEROSOL SPRAYS. So Al/Ba SPRAYING IS OUT.
Hi, you need to reread my letter which COMPLETELY ANSWERS POINT ONE. If you don't get it then keep trying. It WILL dawn on you if you make the effort to think.
2. "a sticky yellow surface on ground/strange web like thread" Yes. The accidents of Nature on a huge scale. There's REALLY NO LINK to aircraft flying in the STRATOSPHERE. A conventional study of atmospheric science shows this. To PROVE a CHEMTRAIL you must SAMPLE IT DIRECTLY. If you DON'T, then YOU HAVE NO LINK.
3. "barium/aluminium/bacteria/magnesium" – SEE ABOVE. Clay is ALUMINUM SILICATE and is found in SOIL. So are the other listed materials. Every square inch of your body is COVERED with sometimes THOUSANDS and sometimes MILLIONS of bacteria.
4. "EPA continously negate the need to investigate/do not give any reasons" – They probably make the same set of statements as mine, and THAT gets misreported.
5. "big white planes without markings" – From FIVE to EIGHT MILES BENEATH "big white planes without markings" is ALL YOU CAN SEE. BLACK planes are INVISIBLE, and sometimes give rise to "mystery secret chemtrail generators" MYTHS. CONVINCING PROOF OF THIS I can offer you RIGHT NOW, if your sky is clear. It is the HALF MOON IN DAYLIGHT. YOU CANNOT SEE A TRACE OF ITS SHADOW SIDE. NOT A BIT. It's due to "BLUE LIGHT SCATTERING".
"tick-tack-toe formations on the sky" – That old chestnut. Observed wherever the stratosphere is wet enough for persistent contrails and there are CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS and a PREVAILING STRATOSPHERIC FLOW. Imagine printing an X on a moving sheet of paper – you get a grid.
Use the old brain box. It's finer than the best computers in the world, but only if you're as devoted to LOGIC as Sherlock Holmes.
"The contrails can be bigger then most clouds" – You haven't understood the physical nature of the stratosphere. If a layer of it is supersaturated, and a contrail is laid in it, it will ACCRETE more ice onto the ice crystals. It will continue to do this until the humidity falls to 100% in that layer. The crystals are gaining weight and falling out of this layer, of course. But by the time they have done so it is easily possible for the trail to have increased its weight by a factor of ONE TO TEN THOUSAND TIMES!
Supersaturated air only occurs when the air is sparklingly clean, so it is a further irony that such conditions are eagerly filmed by CTers as "proof"!
"For 30 years of my life I have never seen "a natural sticky yellow surface covering the ground". What could make a thing like that? If you know, tell me" – Slime mould.
"There it is, it's called probability. And probability is accepted by science, it all depends how high the probability is. Try to guess what is the probability that I will find a "sticky yellow surface", for the first time in my life after a plane making strange (strange to many people) trail, flew over the sky" – Well, the trails weren't unusual. Really. And slime mould exists. There probably will be such a coincidence.
"If you can get a sample of rain on that day, and compare it with samples of rain from other days, without trails and if your results show a difference, then you are very close to knowing (other than guessing)". – You'll pick up most "knowing" on dry, windy, and dusty days, won't you?
"If we agree, that the "strange sticky", and "white powder" are natural, then you are right, this proves nothing. But they are not natural to me. They look even less natural under a microscope" – Well obtain an independent qualified opinion.
"What would you do Tony if you were the head of number one environmental policing agency and citizens asked you about planes spraying chemicals in the air? I am sure you would investigate not just ignore" – Yes. But I might not call a public conference if there was inconclusiveness or negation.
"One year later, in 2000, EPA received a physical sample of highly unusual airborne, fibrous material. (I am sending you attached photos of one such sample). Their reply "we are unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere". How would you react Tony, when sent a fiber like this? Remember you are the head director of a national agency whose aim is to watch over the security of the environment. Wouldn't you sent it to a lab, and then to another to verify? Check what planes might have flown there, talk to pilots, ask citizens, and so on? Of course, if that would have been a natural fiber, made by a spider for example you would have informed about its natural origin, wouldn't you?" – Yes. But what would I say if I WERE unaware of any programs to disperse materials into the atmosphere?
"A white plane from 5-8 miles looks different then half white half blue plane from 5-8 miles" – LOL. But that's the ONLY thing you could say! I think you take my point.
"Tick-tack-toe formations on the sky" – CROSSING SHUTTLE FLIGHTS – "To prove whether these could be left by shuttle flights we need an opinion of an expert, pilot or a radar operator. I am neither, but these seems highly unlikely to me to be left by shuttles" – I am disappointed that you cannot accept my explanation. It is crystal clear in my mind, and I believe you don't follow the logic. Imagine printing and reprinting an X on a sheet of paper. You produce a grid. It doesn't matter which way you move the paper, as long as it isn't directly along one of the crossing route paths. Aircraft are ten times faster than wind conditions so distortions are no more significant than those from the observers' viewpoint.
What is even more unsettling is the IMPORTANCE attached to "GRIDS".
"GRIDS" are meaningless, for the stratospheric contents are deposited hundreds, perhaps thousands of kilometres from where you see them. The stratosphere is hardly ever MOTIONLESS, and GRIDS are the PROOF of it, and NOT the consequence of some organized campaign. (Much as dense contrails are the PROOF of clean air, and not the reverse).
"Tell me what you think about an idea to sent a balloon into a trail like that and gathering a sample" – Hopeless. The balloon would have to be free, and you would have to find it. Radio? No. You can't steer it, and as it crosses the tropopause the wind direction might easily change to an unwanted one (it's one of the stratosphere's characteristics). No, you MUST hire a fast small private jet.
You must also have synchronized video cameras trained on ALL the test equipment ALL of the time, with NO PART EVER LEAVING THE FRAME. The plane-mounted (temporarily) capture equipment MUST take the sample from the trail IN SIGHT of the emitting plane, and that plane has to be identifiable and identified (civil or military number) IN THE FRAME. With VERIFIED CLEAN EQUIPMENT, AN INDEPENDENT OBSERVER, AN INDEPENDENT CHEMIST AND BIOLOGIST, you can then GUARANTEE that you have INCONTROVERTIBLE EVIDENCE.
(But it will be of water, carbon dioxide, trace hydrocarbons, NOX, SOX, so I wouldn't bother if I were you!). Testing of aircraft exhaust products been carried out by various interested parties over the last fifty-five years.
And as for "GeoEngineering" – don't make me laugh!
As a proportion of the AREA of the EARTH the United States is INSIGNIFICANT, at under 2%.
As a proportion of POLLUTION OF THE EARTH, Man takes THIRD PLACE, behind burning forests, rotting tundra, farting animals, and ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED ACTIVE VOLCANOES.
When the air is less than fully saturated (mostly) the contrails are slowly reabsorbed. When the air is warm and quite dry (typically like a warm summer's day low down in the troposphere) you cannot see contrails at all – the steam is dissolved into the air before it gets to form the tiny ice crystals that the "vapor" clouds are made of.
Contrails are also formed inside the wing-tip vortices of tightly-banking fighter planes, and you can frequently see landing aircraft trailing long ribbons of vortices from the outside tips of their flaps on wet days. These are identical to the clear approach cone of a descending tornado: the high vacuum rapidly cools the water vapor in the air, causing it to condense into very fine droplets.
Hi 4,
There are possibly more explanations than the one I give now, so it is important for you to think around the problem and discover others.
The stratosphere is made of transparent ribbon-like layers, typically like large slow-moving rivers. They are flowing OVER the troposphere, which is the Earth's boundary layer and is around five miles deep.
In the troposphere (which is warmed from below by the ground) you have invisible thermals which rise about a mile before they form CUMULUS clouds. As these rise and cool by ADIABATIC EXPANSION, they condense their water vapor into first water, then ice. Because they are dumping water and gaining buoyancy, their rise is like a slow explosion, and they PUSH UP against the stratosphere, RAISING IT, sometimes by a thousand feet or so.
The transparent stratospheric layers don't "mind" being lifted, and for a while compensate for their "surprise cooling" by becoming MORE HUMID. On occasion you can see STRATUS forming ABOVE a CUMULONIMBUS by stratospheric displacement. This happens WHEN the humidity is forced ABOVE 100% – if there's something for the water vapor droplets to nucleate upon. Otherwise the layers go to a SUPERSATURATED condition – and remain transparent.
So along comes a plane and contrail. (A twin jet passenger plane leaves TWO trails from its engines, but they rapidly become ONE as they are gathered up in the plane's MASSIVE WAVE VORTEX). That vortex is like a giant SMOKE RING pulled out along the plane's course. Another way of looking at it is as TWO rotating "cylinders" geared together by friction. There's a LOT of energy there: it corresponds to the main part of the DRAG that the engines are working to overcome for straight and level flight. Light aircraft have been brought down by the wave vortex of a jumbo jet FIVE MILES away.
THAT is the MIXING ENERGY that causes the layer to fill with cloud. If the layer is SUPERSATURATED, even MORE ice condenses upon it (it can increase its weight A THOUSAND-FOLD OR EVEN MORE) and parts of it will FALL, which is why you sometimes see PENDULES and VIRGA as well.
These are all NATURAL PHYSICAL PROCESSES. They are random and fascinating, just as are waves breaking on a sea shore. But they ARE natural…
PS – A great deal of insight may be obtained by scouring YT for Atom-bomb explosions. Here you'll see pressure waves, rapidly-forming cirrus and many other temporary effects as a huge point source of high energy is released and the cloud punches its way through the troposphere, BEYOND the stratosphere, into the ionosphere.
A New Wave Conspiracy
It's a brave new world…. with YouTube COMMENTS!
the powers that be (world leaders) are shape shifting reptilians who want to kill us all slowly. they practice human sacrifice and start all the worlds wars. they also want to keep the fish from seeing planet x which is heading towards earth and will wipe out most of us on or before december 2012! 11 onoes!
Your joking right? You cant possibly be this stupid.
its called the US govt….. not like police and all that good stuff but all these secret organizations that do stuff while the media distracts you with bullcrap like the awful "swine flu" which was no different than the regular flu just in a different time or year 😛
why would they just spray chemicals into the water, thats just stupid
its called depopulation.. ask the WWF.. look up 'eugenics' watch 'aerosol crimes'
Dont listen to the retards and morons here, you are right to not believe this complete BS.
Very funny, but chemtrails are real. hold in mind, that contrails need temperatures below -40degreee Celsius and know that the temperature falls 6.5 degree Celsius with every kilometer high – and now look up on a hot summerday, is the plain with its long trail far away enough?
WRONG! I guess you think that as you look at the sky, the layering is all uniform. You don't understand that there are pockets of warm and cold air floating through the layers. This explains the start/stop trails also. But go ahead, PRETEND that you understand your own atmosphere, just as all chemtards do, Please educate yourself on the facts. "Chemtrails" are a myth that stupid people fall for.
pockets of warm and cold air? Entropy! – in heaven we may believe all …? What`s about the fact, that long white, persistent trails are connected to political systems?
Keep telling yourself that! I laugh at you paranoid morons. You are living in fear of lines of frozen water vapor while connecting them (for no reason) to "political systems". It doesn't get any more pathetic than that. Don't worry, I'm not going to try to talk you out of your beliefs. I like the comedy.
search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one. Are the people in these countries immune to conspiracy theories?
"search for chemtrailbelievers in russia, india, china, africa or cuba for example – you won`t find one". Because they aren't STUPID. Let's face the reality here. Neither one of us has a snowballs chance in hell of convincing the other that we are right. I'm cool with that! If you want to believe in bullshit about "chemicals" in these trails, (regardless of a COMPLETE lack of evidence) GO FOR IT! But don't waste your time trying to convince me. I will NEVER believe in "chemtrails". I understand the scientific explanation too well to be suckered into believing such bullshit.
Regardless of whether or not you are correct, you are true to your name, as you certainly are a shill.
I think your going for PLANE not plain, guess that's shows the intelligence of the people that believe this shit. You honestly think that in every case, every kilometer high you go that the temp changes by exactly 6.5 degrees? You are a moron.
Thank you to correct my bad english – you understand what i mean. The 6.5 degrees per kilometer you may google. Just type in: "temperature flight high" or so. Compare several results.
First the air, now our water. What's next, chemtrails on our land!
Well, I'm convinced. You had me at "shocking".
Really? This is so stupid… And if they were, what would be the purpose?
That's exactly what people say about chemtrails. Geez, you wouldn't recognize a parody if it took a crap on your head.
control of water sources
To kill you.
lol. I like it.
What about the bali pattern?
This is true. google mkultra. The aluminium nanofibres allow Haarp to control individual sheeple like puppets. The nanotechnology is programmed to crawl inside the brain. That's why alzheimers folk have aluminium plaques in their brain. They were the first test subjects of the technology. That's what the psychotronic weapons mentioned in kucinich bill allow.. remote mind control of human beings. Now they are even spreading it into our water supply and fish we eat. Fish are called brain food!!!!
lol nice vid
haha, this is completely ridiculous. Is this a joke?
these chemtrails are out of order, and now there doing this to our water.. this is a clear sighn of the NWO and how there making us drink there chems, swim in there chems, fact the NWO have reserves of water in the south and north poles.. FACT chem trails are real. This is also a clear sighn that NWO are trying to get our water ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. FACT- they been spraying the skys for a long time to get us ready so the reptilian's can breath in our atmosphear, drink our water.. the proof is in the pyramid's.. do a search in google about retilians and the pyamids also pyamids being in water.. FACT the NWO are close to there goal. look at 1:30 to 1:34 in this documentry , you can see where they are pumping the chems from hidden under ground pumping stations, proberly run by the NWO and AL Gore .. FACT- Al Gore is for global warming because he gets paid big time by the NWO whitch he works for, FACT- the new world order are getting (our) planet ready for the reptilian invasion by 2012. and this means warming the planet up, so the reptilians will be comfortable.
Now they are finding lots of mercury in fish like tuna and dolphin and sword that we swallow. Not just aluminum. Guess what mecury is.. A metal, and it is even used in switches and conducts electricity. That means the seaspraying could be spreading mercury to get in our food and brains. If there is electrical switch metal in our brain they could control it and switch things off and on with radio without us knowing anything
FACT : You have to wear aluminium foil helmets and your brain will survive.
i have just put in an aluminium foil liner in my motorcycle helmet will that work garbas?
shoot chem trail planes on sight!!!
Written by JazzRoc
October 31, 2008 at 1:00 am
Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, chemtrails, science, Truth
Tagged with aerosol, aluminium, aluminum, arthritis, articular cartilage, atmosphere, auto fumes, barium, breathing difficulties, bursa, carbon dioxide, carnicom, chem trail, chemtrail, cirrus, cloud, conspiracy, contrail, contrails, contrailscience, cumulus, Earth, fibromyalgia, filaments, government, heavy haze, horizon, humidity, hypocrite, ice, jazzroc, jonty, justice pistoff, kondrix, lines in the sky, lung disease, metallic salts, morgellons, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, pressure, ptb, rense, saturated, science, spraying, steam, stephen salter, stratosphere, stratospheric, synovial membrane, temperature, tendon, tic-tac-toe, trail, transparent, tropopause, unnatural cloud, water, water vapor, webby material, whiteout
Don't forget my other pages, links and comments are one click away at the top right of the page…
Thanks very much for the video. I have seen it before. I think Alex Jones is doing a service for Alex Jones. I detest his style, and suspect his motives.
I think you have ME wrong. I have been an anarchist since 1964, voting socialist and occasionally green. I am also an atheist. I believe we MUST do something with THIS life because it is the only one we have. I'm entirely with Richard Dawkins on this.
Perhaps it was wrong of you to call me an idiot – an emotional reaction of some sort. Perhaps you believe you know something about science or the atmosphere. If you disagree with me about what I have said about contrails on the principles of physics as demonstrated by the atmosphere then you are VERY WRONG, and need to go to a library and read a textbook about the atmosphere that you can feel secure hasn't been written by the CIA or FBI.
Since I was made aware of this subject I have discovered around sixteen hundred video websites studying contrails and calling them chemtrails, claiming special properties for them which I know to be the common properties of WATER when suspended in AIR.
At NO TIME has there been anything SIGNIFICANT offered – no evidence whatsoever has been offered – merely assertions by people who appear to be self-deemed "experts" because they have repeatedly pointed video cameras at the sky.
When I point this out I collect abuse like yours, accusations of being a government disinformation agent, and my comments BLOCKED in a rather UNDEMOCRATIC way.
As I have written MANY times now I write to YOU: For all I know, some clandestine organization IS out to get us, using some aspect of functional science. The ONLY WAY to defeat such efforts will be by using GOOD SCIENCE, OBJECTIVITY and TRUTH. Not BAD SCIENCE, HYPOCRISY, and LIES.
Read my blog…
JEFFLETTIS – "retards/ helping/ disguise/ cover/ evil/ you'll get yours/ your foolishness/ lead people astray/ your suffering/ complete/ Traitors to your own kind/ no stopping the NWO/ crafting this for centuries/ very powerful entities/ toward our destruction/ happy ending/ lot of suffering/ Evil will have its hour/ light will prevail" – HEAVENS ABOVE! YOU'RE MAD, RELIGIOUS, AND HAVE READ DAVID ICKE. CERTIFY YOURSELF!
Outright fiction is being peddled as historical and scientific fact, warns Damian Thompson in an extract from his provocative new book.
Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History
George Bush planned the September 11 attacks.
The MMR injection triggers autism in children.
The ancient Greeks stole their ideas from Africa.
"Creation science" disproves evolution.
Homeopathy can defeat the Aids virus.
Do any of these theories sound familiar? Has someone bored you rigid at a dinner party by unveiling one of these "secrets"? If so, it is hardly surprising. In recent years, thousands of bizarre conjectures have been endorsed by leading publishers, taught in universities, plugged in newspapers, quoted by politicians and circulated in cyberspace.
This is counterknowledge: misinformation packaged to look like fact. We are facing a pandemic of credulous thinking. Ideas that once flourished only on the fringes are now taken seriously by educated people in the West, and are wreaking havoc in the developing world.
We live in an age in which the techniques for evaluating the truth of claims about science and history are more reliable than ever before. One of the legacies of the Enlightenment is a methodology based on painstaking measurement of the material world. That legacy is now threatened. And one of the reasons for this, paradoxically, is that science has given us almost unlimited access to fake information.
Most of us have friends who are susceptible to conspiracy theories. You may know someone who thinks the Churches are suppressing the truth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene sired a dynasty of Merovingian kings; someone else who thinks Aids was cooked up in a CIA laboratory; someone else again who thinks MI5 killed Diana, Princess of Wales. Perhaps you know one person who believes all three.
Or do you half-believe one of these ideas yourself? We may assume that we are immune to conspiracy theories. In reality, we are more vulnerable than at any time for decades.
I recently met a Lib Dem-voting schoolteacher who voiced his "doubts" about September 11. First, he grabbed our attention with a plausible-sounding observation: "Look at the way the towers collapsed vertically. Jet fuel wouldn't generate enough to heat to melt steel. Only controlled explosions can do that." The rest of the party, not being structural engineers (for whom there is nothing mysterious about the collapse of the towers) pricked up their ears. "You're right," they said. "It did seem strange…"
Admittedly, no major newspaper or TV station has endorsed a September 11 conspiracy theory. But more than 100 million people have watched a 90-minute documentary, Loose Change, directed by three young New Yorkers who assembled the first cut on a laptop. The result is super-slick: computer-generated planes glide menacingly towards their targets, to the accompaniment of a funky soundtrack; buildings collapse in a comic theatrical sequence. This is one cool movie – and a masterpiece of counterknowledge.
The makers suggest that a missile, not an airliner, hit the Pentagon; that the occupants of Flight 93 were safely evacuated at Cleveland Hopkins airport; that the panicked calls made by the passengers were faked using voice-morphing technology.
The directors make basic errors and play outrageous tricks: quotes from experts and official documents are cherry-picked and truncated. Airline parts are misidentified and pictures cropped in a way that leaves out inconvenient rubble and wreckage. "Expert testimony" is lifted from the American Free Press, a hysterical news service with strong links to the far Right.
Yet the makers of Loose Change are pushing at an open door. More than a third of Americans suspect that federal officials assisted in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them. September 11 conspiracy theories have gained such a following in France that even a member of President Sarkozy's government has suggested that President Bush might have planned the attacks. Christine Boutin, the housing minister, when asked in an interview whether she thought Bush might have been behind the attacks, said: "I think it is possible."
Another who believes this is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, who reckons that September 11 could not have been executed "without co-ordination with [US] intelligence and security services". Ahmadinejad is also a well-known Holocaust denier, having referred publicly to "the myth of the Jews' massacre".
In the world of counterknowledge, wild theories are constantly mating and mutating. As the editor of Skeptic magazine, Michael Shermer, puts it: "The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking, as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics."
We do not normally think of creationism and maverick physics as conspiracy theories; but what they have in common with Loose Change is a methodology that marks them as counterknowledge. People who share a muddled, careless or deceitful attitude towards gathering evidence often find themselves drawn to each other's fantasies. If you believe one wrong or strange thing, you are more likely to believe another. Although this has been true for centuries, the invention of the internet has had a galvanising effect. A rumour about the Antichrist can leap from Goths in Sweden to Australian fascists in seconds. Minority groups are becoming more tolerant of each other's eccentric doctrines. Contacts between white and black racists are now flourishing; in particular, the growing anti-Semitism of black American Muslims has been a great ice-breaker on the neo-Nazi circuit.
In June 2007, the home page of The Truth Seeker, a conspiracy website, included claims that Aids is a "man-made Pentagon genocide", that Pope Paul VI "was impersonated by an actor from 1975 to 1978", that new evidence about the Loch Ness monster had emerged – plus a link to Loose Change.
Yet, as we saw earlier, more than 100 million people have seen that film. In the 21st century, bogus knowledge is no longer confined to self-selecting minority groups. It is seeping into the mainstream, cleverly repackaged for a mass market. This crisis goes beyond traditional political ideology. Yes, the Left has helped to spread counterknowledge by insisting on the rights of minorities to believe falsehoods that make them feel better about themselves. Afro-centric history aims to raise the self-esteem of black youngsters by feeding them the fantasy that the origins of Western civilisation lie in black Africa. Last year, a British government report revealed that some teachers are dropping the Holocaust from lessons rather than confront the Holocaust-denial of Muslim pupils.
But Left-wing multiculturalists are not the only guilty ones: entrepreneurs are turning counterknowledge into an industry. Publishing houses pay self-taught archaeologists and pseudo-historians large amounts to turn fragments of fact into saleable stories. Titles are placed in the history sections of bookshops whose claims have been thoroughly demolished – yet the publishers carry on bringing out new editions.
The dividing line between fiction and non-fiction is becoming increasingly hard to draw. These days, public opinion is so malleable that a product does not even have to pretend to be fact in order to affect perceptions of truth: the success of The Da Vinci Code has persuaded 40 per cent of Americans that the Churches are concealing information about Jesus.
Meanwhile, publishers, television channels and newspapers are making huge profits from another branch of counterknowledge: alternative medicine. Unqualified nutritionists make claims for vitamin supplements and "superfoods" that are unsupported by scientific literature; conveniently, these people often have a commercial interest in selling the supplements in question.
Fashionable advocates of alternative medicine, and the executives who profit from them, are as reliant on counterknowledge as any bedsit conspiracy theorist. Their miracle diets and health scares undermine science by distorting the public understanding of cause and effect, and therefore of risk.
The fingerprints of the alternative medicine lobby are all over the worst British health scare of recent years, in which thousands of parents denied their children the MMR triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella following the dissemination of flawed data linking it to autism. In that case, distrust of orthodox medicine increased the danger of a measles epidemic.
But that is nothing compared to the impact of medical counterknowledge in underdeveloped countries. In northern Nigeria, Islamic leaders have issued a fatwa declaring the polio vaccine to be a US conspiracy to sterilise Muslims: polio has returned to the area, and pilgrims have carried it to Mecca and Yemen. In January 2007, the parents of 24,000 children in Pakistan refused to let health workers vaccinate their children because radical mullahs had told them the same idiotic story.
These incidents cannot be dismissed as examples of medieval superstition: these people are not rejecting life-saving vaccines because they reject modern medicine, but because their leaders are spouting Islamic takes on Western conspiracy theories. Counterknowledge, with its ingrained hostility towards a political, intellectual and scientific elite, appeals to anti-American, anti-Western sentiment in the developing world.
Islamic countries, in particular, have embraced counterknowledge to a remarkable degree. In 2006, the Pew Research Centre asked Muslims in Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Pakistan whether Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks. The majority of respondents in each country said no. Indeed, most British Muslims – 56 per cent – also thought that Arabs were innocent. A quarter of British Muslims believe that "the British Government was involved in some way" with the London terrorist bombings of July 7, 2005.
The battle between knowledge and counterknowledge is not just a struggle to protect the public domain from bogus facts. It has profound implications for the safety of the West. And, make no mistake about it: this is a battle we are losing.
'Counterknowledge: How We Surrendered to Conspiracy Theories, Quack Medicine, Bogus Science and False History' by Damian Thompson
"Please quote any "lie" I have mentioned to you" OK, WILL DO
"The main thing necessary for these to form is when the temperature and dew point are within 5 degrees" – FALSE
"Checking the upper air data will give insight to conditions" – FALSE
"you confirm that the trails are indeed chemtrails" – LIE
"no credentials" – LIE
"are a government debunker" – LIE
"unwilling to put your status as a person of knowledge on this issue" – LIE
"your spam postings" – LIE
"over and over you continue to waste space" – LIE
"you offer no information" – LIE
"Post after post you avoid this" – LIE
"with alleged credentials you speak with disrespect" – LIE
"You have not been criticized yet your replies are repeatedly childish" – LIE
"You must dance because you sure dance around the issue" – LIE
"your time wasting typing" – LIE
"all you discuss is how a cloud forms" – LIE
"doesn't have the guts to do the real science" – LIE
"you more afraid to find out there is something than I am to find out there isn't" – LIE
"no scientist is willing to use science to prove once and for all what is in the trails" – LIE
"so called experience" – LIE
"Useless posting and disinformation" – LIE
"of a so called engineer" – LIE
"I have made no claim of any lethal status" – IMPLICIT LIE
"you sit back and take part by numerous useless posts" – LIE
"sham" – LIE
That's TWENTY-TWO LIES and TWO ERRORS. About average for a chemtrailer.
there are ALL SORTS of technical reasons why the chemtrail hypothesis is wrong. http://www.contrailscience.com is clear and explicit. Take ANY KEY WORD and enter it into Wikipedia. Read ANY MODERN TEXT BOOK you can find on the PHYSICS OF THE ATMOSPHERE. It will pay you to read up on EARTH SCIENCE AS WELL. Good luck with your video work.
This is about attacks on atheism by religious bigots.
It's analogous…
Your irrational, misinformed and frightening diatribe against Atheists starkly illustrates what we are up against; the most hateful, bigoted, and unfounded attacks on us by people awash in religious fervor, frequently claiming biblical justification, and employing flagrant lies and the vilest of hate-speech. For most of the last 2000 years, people like myself have fared poorly at the hands of people like you. We have literally been hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed for the unforgivable sin of having arrived at a different opinion than the dominant religion mandates.
Only the Constitution and the First Amendment have protected free citizens of good conscience from the witch-burning mob mentality that mindless hatred justifies and facilitates. If people like you had their way, we would find ourselves once again living in a country where it was lethal and criminal to be an Atheist or to disagree with the official religion. That is exactly the way it is handled by the Taliban.
email me and finally admit to the spraying of aerosols. and u should be thirsty its 1 side affect. all u do is debunk the word chemtrail, nothing else. debunk your goverment programming and then u will see the truth. lol charcoal filte r(doesnt filter out 5 microns or less u white liar. i guess this will be deleted also. so admit to the spraying of aerosols. as u can c i am not hiding from you so why hide from my question. the funny thing is that almost all your posts on the subject are true but don't relate to topic and mislead… so how much u getting paid anyway?
I have replied to you personally – twice – but you haven't responded.
Chemtrails DO NOT EXIST AT ALL. Contrails have been KNOWN to persist since 1940, where airplane fighter battles occurred over London shortly after the start of WWII. Since the PERSISTENCE of contrails is the ONLY justification for "chemtrails", it seems only correct to DEBUNK them.
You may not know of a half-micron charcoal filter, but I DO.
Aerosol "sprays" may be purchased from your hardware store. Those, and agricultural spraying, are the only "aerosol sprays" that exist.
I am glad that you think that "almost all" of my "posts on the subject are true". Which posts do you think are NOT?
It is TYPICAL of your PARANOIA that you think that ANY government would go to the ABSURD lengths of putting a TEAM of people ONE-ON-ONE to deal with YOU, and others like you.
Get real. I'm living in a more-or-less broke and income-less state on a warm island where poverty doesn't strike the individual as hard as it does in the "temperate zone", and I just get by.
The only thing that motivates me is the HUGE LIE you live within.
Read my blog and get yourself properly up-to-date.
You're looking at WATER…
Lung and skin diseases are caused by pollens+auto fumes+photoreactive smog, and can kill the young and old.
1500 active volcanoes (24/7) make Man's efforts puny by comparison. Living plants have been turning THIS into FRESH AIR for 3 billion years. Worry about auto fumes, photoreactive smog, deforestation, and loss of ocean phytoplankton. Be reasonable.
"The key, in my opinion, is not holding 100% certainty (i.e. belief) in anything, because it simply violates the mathematical conservation of probability.
You'll have to forgive my initial reaction, the government under which I live has a well documented history of using disinformation agents to dilute the effectiveness of movements. In the case of Chemtrails, the thing that gives it such traction (including in my own psyche originally) is that it plays off isomorphic circumstances (the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, the general pollution of our community, the proliferation of wireless and cellphone radiation) while having an implicit base of data. The problem as you describe is in that inference, knowing that relative humidity can be stratified through different levels of the atmosphere causes all that data to be inferred a bit more plainly."
Bless him… he toned his "probability" down to a reasonable 5%! And came up with THIS :
Lynn, please stop worrying. Go to the library and pick up a comprehensive book about the Earth's atmosphere, and relax. The only new thing going on is the the GLOBE is gently WARMING, and the skies are MORE HUMID as a consequence. Trails ARE made of ICE particles and ARE going to hang all days in our new WETTER skies. It is TRUE that blue skies will be rarer, but it really means more storms and rain. That's ALL!
Where do you live? Approximately will do… (!)
Re dusts: inspect under microscope. Collect together similar grains, and dissolve in hydrochloric acid. Check on appropriate websites (don't know – try US chemistry programs) and see if you cannot identify the metals. They normally arrive from power stations. Even coal-burning ones produce radioactive effluents. (Most nuclear plants emit less, normally).
As for crap all over you, there was a time when you never had reason to look, and it was STILL all over you! The same goes for plane flights and all the rest you notice. Before you WEREN'T looking: it's called the "observer effect". The classic is when you get yourself a new vehicle to drive you SUDDENLY notice all the other vehicles which are the SAME.
Cirrus clouds COOL during daytime by REFLECTING sunlight back into space before it has had time to WARM the Earth. During the night they WARM by reflecting back the heat (IR light) that would have radiated back into space.
The NET result is the status quo. Making the gross assumption that the albedo increase is of the order of 2% (it is!) then that is an increase over the US and Europe ONLY – which is ONLY 3% of the Earth's surface.
So, you are rabbiting on about 2% of 3% – WHICH IS 0.06%! Another way of describing this is 0.006:1 or 1:1,667.
In Statistics we talk about the concept of SIGNIFICANCE. That's 6% of the whole.
Compared with THAT this WHOLE IDEA of yours is LAUGHABLY INSIGNIFICANT.
Well, you insist – I HAVE to believe you.
Get the particles analyzed. Carry a vidcam ALWAYS and VIDEO the buggers ALWAYS. It IS possible to deduce the range from the image size – takes a little maths – that's all.
Find the relevant authorities, take the EVIDENCE to them (copy it first!) and CHALLENGE them. Cover your ass…
I have two friends with interesting stories…
The first discovered (while working in a network video editing suite) that the neocons had inserted subliminal (satanic!) cues into a pre-election video piece on Tony Blair. His tape copies were WIPED (he says) by a Hercules with a special magnetic RING which fried his tapes from 50M over his house. He IS a nervous, unstable, paranoid type, but maybe he wasn't once…
The second lives in Camden Town and had his tap water privately analyzed. He discovered it to be WELL over the limit in heavy metals and faecal solids (shit!), in spite of the council's claims otherwise. He HASN'T been bothered by authorities: he's kept his NOSE CLEAN. He is one of the toughest guys I know… He turns up at council meetings and hounds them and hounds them…
Try this Vaughan-Williams' composition – he's a Welshman like me.
We are a more Latin race than you Saxons…
"I've heard you've gotten acquainted with JP" – much to my surprise, yes
"I'm Marius" – and I'm Tony
"Nice to meet you" – hmm. We're not "meeting". Meeting would be better…
"He told me you were well worth the talk" – How does he know?
"In contrast to almost all of the other You tube haters and bots" – Ah, hatred. T-shirt.
"I wonder about these chemtrails, being into conspiracy theories" – me too. JFK is reason enough.
"I'm having a real hard time sorting out the bullshit from the authentic conspiracies" – The Bard of Ely mentioned it (I'd never heard of it before), explained the theory, and we nearly came to blows over it.
Before I knew it I was OFF his site, expunged out of existence… if there was anything GUARANTEED to PISS ME OFF, I'd JUST met it. So off I stooged into YouTube laying waste to all and sundry. The Bard and I have made up since…
"I've barely seen some of the videos on chem trails, but it seems as if there is not any proof by anyone?" NOTHING. Not only that, EVERYTHING I've heard is SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG – not INACCURATE – BUT WRONG. About SEVENTY sites are LYING fit to bust.
"Is this mainly some sort of conspiracy theory hype? "let's jump on the conspiracy wave"-thing?" – There is MONEY TO BE MADE ON SITE HITS. Don't do it myself, and only learnt about it by a chance remark from ONE of the offenders who more-or-less suggested I hadn't an OUNCE of business sense. That put me in the picture.
"Canary Islands, was it? Is it nice there?" – It's 25 deg C right now blue skies – some mackerel cloud – 72%RH (wet for here)
"I'm from Norway, myself. It's nice, I guess – those dark winter days, the booze…. Not a lot of people though. 4.7 million" – half that here
"Have a nice day!" – and you, Marius. Any friend of JP is a port in the storm.
(From OMNI, April 1991. This story, which was a 1991 Nebula nominee, has been appearing around the internet lately without the author's name attached. Several people were kind enough to alert him, but the truth is he's more flattered than offended. )
THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT by Terry Bisson
"They're made out of meat."
"Meat. They're made out of meat."
"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."
"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"
"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."
"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."
"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."
"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."
"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."
"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."
"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"
"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."
"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."
"No brain?"
"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."
"So … what does the thinking?"
"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."
"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"
"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"
"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."
"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."
"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"
"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."
"We're supposed to talk to meat."
"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."
"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."
"I thought you just told me they used radio."
"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"
"Officially or unofficially?"
"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."
"I was hoping you would say that."
"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"
"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"
"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."
"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."
"That's it."
"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"
"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."
"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."
"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."
"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"
"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."
"They always come around."
"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone …"
Director: Stephen O'Regan
Cast: Tom Noonan, Ben Bailey, Gbenga Akinnagbe, and Brenda Della Casa
Director of Photography: Paul Niccolls
Music: Bob Reynolds
Written by JazzRoc
October 30, 2008 at 1:00 am
Posted in atmosphere, Aviation, chemtrails, science, Truth
Tagged with aerosol, aluminium, aluminum, arthritis, atmosphere, auto fumes, bacteria, barium, breathing difficulties, carbon dioxide, carnicom, chem trail, cloud, conspiracy, contrail, contrails, contrailscience, cumulus, Earth, exhaust, filaments, global warming, government, heavy haze, humidity, hypocrite, ice, ignorance, jazzroc, kerosine, lines in the sky, lung disease, metallic salts, morgellons, no more blue skies, not a normal cloud, oily clouds, power, pressure, ptb, rense, saturated, science, spraying, steam, stratosphere, stratospheric, sublime, supersaturated, temperature, tic-tac-toe, trail, transparent, tropopause, troposphere, unnatural cloud, water, water vapor, webby material, whiteout, youtube