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You are currently browsing the daily archive for February 7, 2008.
February 2008 just ain't cold here yet: see this post from a cold 2007.
Yes, the oft-mentioned Rosemary Ruth (search the name) is available. Equipment list, etc, is here. Richard–in blue–has a surprise boat in store.
No, it's neither of Rosemary Ruth's taller friends, but the nearer one bears a second look.
Here's a closer up of the stern of her neighbor right now in Hoboken. Great name and excellent pedigree (or log).
A contented tugster knows nothing beats a pinky schooner for providing a seat way stern that allows one to feel the dancing–its pitches and yaws–even on the light breeze of a mild winter sail. Hmmm…. would I have the $$?
Photos by or of WVD.


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NEW YORK, March 3, 2013— -- STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, and welcome to This Week. Washington fails.
OBAMA: I should somehow do a Jedi mind meld, and convince them to do what's right.
BOEHNER: It's about taking on the spending problem here in Washington.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The sequester kicks in. Sweeping cuts in spending. How long will they stick? What impact will they have? Answers today from our headliners, including top White House aid Gene Sperling, who tangled this week with legendary reporter, Bob Woodward.
WOODWARD: It was said very clearly, you will regret doing this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Plus our powerhouse roundtable on all the weeks politics. Stunning change for the Catholic church, and in this week's biggest surprise.
RODMAN: I love him. The guy is awesome.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Dennis Rodman meets King Jong-Un. No America has spent more time with North Korea's new dictator, and he joins us for his first interview.
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, This Week with George Stephanopoulos. Reporting from ABC News headquarters, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You heard that right, in the week's most surreal encounter, one of the world's most notorious basketball players spent quality time with one of the world's most dangerous dictators. And Dennis Rodman is here to share what he learned about Kim Jong-Un in just a bit. But we begin with the budget battles that have crippled the Capitol. President Obama signed the order on Friday to execute those $85 billion in across the board spending cuts, and with both sides locked into their positions, it looks like those cuts are here to stay.
For more on what that will all mean, we begin today with the president's top economic adviser, Director of the National Economic Council, Gene Sperling. Good morning, Gene. Thanks for joining us.
SPERLING: Thank you, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's very clear -- very clear from Speaker Boehner, the leader of the Senate Republicans, Mitch McConnell, that the Republicans are not moving on taxes -- taxes. So does that mean that these cuts are going to be in place for the rest of the year?
SPERLING: You know I certainly hope not, George. These were harsh cuts that were put into place to be so harsh, on defense, and national security, on education on, you know things that matter to children in our country, and most of all to jobs, that -- it was considered to be so harsh, it would force both sides to come back to the table, and negotiate on the type of bipartisan compromise, everyone...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But, that's not happening.
SPERLING: ...knows we need. Well, you know George, it hasn't happened yet, but I will tell you something. This is not a win for Republicans. You know Republicans are supposed to be for stronger national defense. This cuts our military preparedness dramatically. They're supposed to be for border security? These sequester cuts will end up meaning enough reduction in hours that it would be the equivalent of 5,000 border patrol agents being cut.
They're supposed to be for long term entitlement reform? This does not long term entitlement reform. And when I talk to CEO's around the country, they tell me that this is leading them to put projects that would create jobs on hold. They think it's going to hurt their small business suppliers dramatically. So this is not a win for anyone. The only win, if you can call it that, that this gives is the -- those on the Republican side who are willing to let all of this harm be inflicted...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But...
SPERLING: ...just so they can stand by this principle, that there should not be one dime of deficit reduction...
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...but as you know...
SPERLING: ...from closing loopholes...
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...the Republican leaders...
SPERLING: ...closing loopholes, or deductions. That's just a -- an unreasonable position.
STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, the Republican leaders say that's not the only option. That they say the administration could cushion the blow of these cuts if it wanted to. Here's -- here's Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell just the other day.
MCCONNELL: The president is ready to make it bite as hard as possible, all to send a simple message to the public, you want to control Washington spending America? Fine, let me show you how much I can make it hurt.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not take the kind of flexibility the Republicans are offering?
SPERLING: Because I think that as you've heard, independent economists say, from the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, to the independent Congressional Budget Office, there is no way that you can move the -- the deck chairs around in a way that will not cost our economy as CBO projects, 750,000 jobs. When you have those types of harsh spending cuts in such a short, concentrated period of time, it's like saying to somebody, you can cut off three of your fingers, but you can have the flexibility to choose which ones you want to cut off.
If you're cutting $42 billion from defense, you're going to dramatically hurt operations, and maintenance in our military training. If you have to cut as much is as required on -- on the domestic side, you could eliminate Head Start, the FBI, and the National Science Foundation, and you still would not get there. Now, you know if they want to talk about real flexibility that would allow the president to actually reduce the deficit in a way that didn't hurt jobs, and most importantly, to be able to reduce loopholes, corporate tax expenditures, tax expenditures for the well off, in a way that didn't hurt jobs, that would be one thing.
But what they're saying is, the only way that we can do cuts are in very harsh, devastating ways that would cost 750,000 jobs, and that their flexibility does not include the ability to ask for one dime of revenues...
STEPHANOPOULOS: As you....
SPERLING: ...to lower the deficit from corporate loopholes, even though George, it was only 10 weeks ago that Speaker Boehner said that we could reduce the deficit by up to $1 trillion from exactly this type of tax reform that closes loopholes, and reduces taxes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...as you know, Gene, even the president's allies have accused the administration of hyping the pain caused by these cuts. Here's New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
BLOOMBERG: There's a lot of posturing. I'm going to lay off my employees today unless you do something. I'm going to -- we're going to close the hospitals down, we're going to put -- take all of the prisoners from jail, and put them on the streets. Spare me, I live in that world. I mean come on, let's get serious here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And at least twice this week, the administration got caught exaggerating the impact. The president claimed that Capitol janitors are going to get a pay cut. The architect of the Capitol denied that. He said it was premature at best. Education Secretary Arnie Duncan -- Duncan, couldn't back up a similar claim that he made about teachers getting pink slips. So how do you respond to critics who say the administration is engaging in scare tactics?
SPERLING: Well, you know first of all you know those Capitol janitors will not get as much overtime. I'm sure they think less pay that they're taking home, does hurt. But I think the real issue is that, this is as the president said, a slow grind. When this sequester goes off, yes it's not going to hurt as much on day one. But again every independent economist agrees, it is going to cost our economy 750,000 jobs just as our economy has a chance to take off.
George, you could bring CEO after CEO on your show who would tell you that this type of uncertainty, and dysfunction in Washington is forcing them to hold back projects that they would be doing that would be creating jobs. They're worried it's going to hurt their small business suppliers. And as -- and my belief is that as this pain starts to gradually spread to communities affected by military spending, to children that need mental health services, to people who care about our border security, I believe that more Republican colleagues who are concerned about this harm to their constituents, will choose bipartisan compromise on revenue raising tax reform with serious entitlement reform.
They'll choose this bipartisan compromise over, what is an ideological position that every single penny of deficit reduction going forward must be on the middle-class, our seniors, our children, and that there can't be one penny that comes from closing loopholes, or tax expenditures. That is not a position that the public supports. It's not the kind of bipartisan compromise we need to move our country forward.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Before you go, I have to ask you about this strange sparring match you had with Bob Woodward of the Washington Post this week. I guess it began with an email exchange that you had about an article he wrote last week in the Washington Post, saying the president was moving the goal post on the sequester. I guess you had a heated conversation, and in email you apologized for it. And then went on to add this, you say, "As a friend, I think you'll regret staking out that claim." Woodward seemed to take it as a threat, listen?
WOODWARD: It makes me very uncomfortable to have the White House telling reporters, you're going to regret doing something that you believe in.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I read all of the emails. They seem pretty civil on all sides. Do you have any idea what made Woodward so uncomfortable? And have you all spoken about it since and cleared this all up?
SPERLING: You know George, I've known Bob Woodward for 20 years. We've had a very friendly, and respectful relationship. I think virtually everybody who has looked at my email to him, and his reply to me, though those emails reflected that degree of respect, and -- and politeness. And the emails were fundamentally substantive. I was -- I was arguing a case as to why I believe the president asking for balance is consistent with where things have been for the last several years.
So all I can say, George is that Bob Woodward is -- is a legend. I hope that him and I can put this behind us, and I think most importantly...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you haven't talked about it yet?
SPERLING: You know I haven't talked to him yet, but I hope to. I -- I hope we can put it behind us. Because I think we both care about the policy issues we were debating, and I think we both think that that's where the focus of our -- our national debate should be, not on -- not on our email exchange.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Gene Sperling, thanks for your time this morning.
SPERLING: Thank you, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, let's get a Republican point of view, now from New Hampshire, Senator Kelly Ayotte. Thanks for joining us this morning Senator. You heard...
AYOTTE: Good morning, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning. You heard Gene Sperling there said, this is not a win for Republicans. Do you agree with him on his assessment on how much damage these cuts are going to do?
AYOTTE: Well George, I serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee. I've listened to our military commanders for the last year. I also traveled around the country with Senators McCain, and Graham, and so I am really concerned about the impact on our national security. We've already heard on cuts on training for our active duty troops. Also flight hours for the -- the combat fighter pilots.
So yes, there's some real concern about undermining our national security. But I want to step back for a minute because I actually think that what the Woodward exchange with Mr. Sperling demonstrates is that both sides are rewriting history here to some extent.
You have the president out blaming Republicans when the idea came from the White House, and now he's trying to write into -- tax increases into the plan, when it wasn't ever in the plan, and...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Republicans...
AYOTTE: (Inaudible) on the Republican end.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republicans were...
AYOTTE: Right. Exactly.
AYOTTE: That's why I say on the Republican end, the enforcement mechanism was one where we left 50 percent of spending off the table so that defense takes a disproportionate cut, which where's the party of Ronald Reagan on this? So I think it's time -- you know Mr. Sperling talked about this being a choice of increasing taxes. We just increased taxes, the Congress did in January at the president's request.
How about alternative spending cuts? In fact this week I offered a proposal to do that. So why can't both sides work together to do this in a more sensible way?
STEPHANOPOULOS: What are the spending cuts you think would work to achieve these same kinds of savings?
AYOTTE: I think there are many. First of all, the House obviously had a proposal. They did last year, but there are a whole host of reforms. We left 50 percent of spending on the table, so I had some ideas on -- you can continue a pay freeze for federal employees. You can reform federal retirement, and Congress' retirement. You can do things to reform some of the problems that we've had with food stamps, that in fact are similar to what we passed in the Senate farm bill, so not a new idea.
There's a whole host of ideas of how we could cut spending in a more responsible way that doesn't undermine our national security. And that seems to be being left out of the discussion on both sides here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You also heard Gene Sperling say that he believes the pressure is going to build on a lot of Republicans to come to the table on new revenues. And -- and then one of your colleagues already, Senator Lindsay Graham of South Carolina, has said he's open to that. Take a listen?
GRAHAM: To me this is a bipartisan problem. This is the chance to do the big deal. I am willing to raise revenue. I'm willing to raise $600 billion in new revenue if my Democratic friends would be willing to reform entitlements and we can fix sequestration together.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Why not go for the big deal at this point? You mentioned the president's position earlier. His position always was $2.00 or $3.00 in spending cuts for every $1.00 in new revenue. Right now you're at -- you're going a rate of $4.00 in spending cuts for every $1.00 in new revenue. Are you prepared to sit down, and talk about a much bigger deal?
AYOTTE: Well, George what the president is now -- what he pushed recently in the Senate this week, the $85 billion small deal with tax increases. That's not going to work. If we're going to increase revenue again, it's got to go to the debt with real entitlement reform, and real tax reform when you actually lower rates. And I think that none of that's been in this discussion, so absolutely, I think we need to do a big agreement for the country.
Because we haven't dealt with the fundamental drivers of our debt, the entitlement programs. And the tax reform has to be done uniformly, at a lower rate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So -- so -- but are you willing -- let me just be clear here, you're willing if -- if -- if tax reform goes forward, and if the president is willing to talk about entitlement reform, in Medicare, and Medicaid, and other entitlement programs, you're saying you're willing to have an agreement that actually raises revenue? Or does it have to be revenue neutral tax reform?
AYOTTE: I am willing to say, if we take the form of lowering rates so that we can focus on economic growth, and then we take a portion of that, and apply it to the debt with real entitlement reform, but it has to go to the debt. I'm not going to agree to any more tax increases that are going to go to increase more government. I mean here we are, that's what the latest proposal is from the president, this sequester has to be dealt with within existing spending, and alternative cuts.
And we need real entitlement reform, and real tax reform. That's what we need for the country if we're going to drive down our debt, and also be focused on economic growth.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That might be a little bit of an opening that can be seized on later, although it may not happen any time soon. But Senator Ayotte, thank you very much for your time this morning.
AYOTTE: Thanks George, appreciate it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we are back now with "THIS WEEK's" weirdest encounter. Top of the news in North Korea, the first American to meet Kim Jong-un, not John Kerry or even Jimmy Carter, nope, it was Dennis Rodman, AKA "The Worm."
They watch basketball. Kim is a big fan, but that was just the beginning. Some ice skating too, an aquarium visit, then a long dinner and lots of drinks with one of the world's most mysterious and dangerous men.
DENNIS RODMAN, FORMER BASKETBALL PLAYER: I love him. The guy is awesome. He was so honest.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That about a dictator who presides over prison camps, allows millions to starve, and has threatened to destroy the United States. Amazingly, Rodman now has more firsthand impressions of Kim than any other American.
COL. STEPHEN GANYARD, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: There is nobody at the CIA who could tell you more personally about Kim Jong-un than Dennis Rodman, and that in itself is scary.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Dennis Rodman joins us right now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess you don't find it scary.
RODMAN: No, it's not scary. It's amazingly, man, wild, man. You know what, it was such a great experience. Me and my -- (INAUDIBLE) son, (INAUDIBLE), we went there, man, and it wasn't supposed to be like that. It was supposed to be like, just meet the guy and just have a good time.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And it turned into such and an event. And I have to ask you first, when you said you love Kim and think he's awesome, were you aware of his threats to destroy the United States and his regime's horrendous record on human rights?
RODMAN: One thing about that, you know what? I didn't look at all that right there. I understand what he's doing. I don't condone that. I hate the fact that he's doing that but the fact is that, you know what, that's a human being, though. He let his guards, he did one day to me, made a friend. I didn't talk about that. I understand now. I understand that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But do you think you have a responsibility to ask him about it so that you don't be perceived as sort of propping up his regime, his cult of personality?
RODMAN: This is what I think, when you grow up in that -- an environment, especially when your grandpa and your father -- now, one thing, the kid is only 28 years old.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You called them great leaders. Do you really believe that?
RODMAN: What I saw in that country, I saw in that country and I saw people respect him and his family and that's what I mean about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Aren't they forced to?
RODMAN: Huh?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Aren't they forced to?
RODMAN: Well, I say no because I think he's -- (INAUDIBLE) something because this is a different view because I sat with him for two days. And one thing he asked me to give Obama something to say and do one thing. He wants Obama to do one thing, call him.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He wants a call from President Obama?
RODMAN: That's right. He told me that. He said, if you can, Dennis, I don't want to do war. I don't want to do war. He said that to me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did you say, why don't you pick up the phone and call President Obama?
RODMAN: No, you know, it's a different story. It's a different story because, guess what, the kid is only 28 years old, 28. He's not his dad. Not his grandpa. He's 28 years old.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you think he's different. What did he tell you about America and what did you learn about him?
RODMAN: Guess what, the one thing I said to him, I said, we talked about -- if you see the clips or whatever, he loves basketball. And I said, Obama loves basketball, let's start there, all right? Start there. If you see the quotes in the papers, he says that. He says that about sports. Both of you guys love basketball so much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's one tiny bit of common ground. Did you get any sense from him that he was looking to change the relationship with the United States?
RODMAN: Well, one thing about him -- one thing I noticed about him, he's very humble. He's very humble, man. As a kid he's very humble. He's very -- he's very strong as a man, he's very strong. But guess what, he don't want war. That's one thing he don't want.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He said in the past that he would destroy the United States.
RODMAN: Well, I just think that's coming from his father. I think as a young man, I mean, he don't want anything…
STEPHANOPOULOS: What else does he know about the United States and President Obama from what you could tell?
RODMAN: I can tell by him, he does one thing, he loves -- he loves power. He loves control. Because others, you know, dad and stuff like that, but he just -- he's a great guy. He's just a great guy. If you sit down and talk to him, you know, perception is perceiving how things work.
STEPHANOPOULOS: A great guy who puts 200,000 people in prison camps?
RODMAN: Well, you know, guess what, it's amazing how we do the same thing here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We have prison camps here in the United States?
RODMAN: We don't have prison camps, guess what, this is all politics, right? This is all politics, right? And the one thing, he don't want to do that. He don't want to do that. But you know what, it's more like it -- I'm not like a diplomat, I don't want to do that…
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it sounds like you're apologizing for him.
RODMAN: No, I'm not apologizing for him. I think the fact that, you know, he's a good guy to me. Guess what, he's my friend. Guess what, I don't condone what he does, but as far as a person to person, he's my friend. But as far as what he does, you deal with it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Someone who hypothetically is a murderer who is your friend is still a murderer.
RODMAN: Well, you know what, seriously, you know what, guess what, guess what, what I did, what I did was history, was history and guess what, it's just like we do over here in America, right?
It's amazing that we have presidents over here do the same thing, right? It's amazing that Bill Clinton could do one thing and have sex with his secretary and do one thing and really get away with it and still be powerful, not...
STEPHANOPOULOS: How can you compare that to prison camps?
RODMAN: No, prison camp is one thing. We don't need to do one thing, object that. We don't to do it, object that. But guess what, we do one thing, like a friend to friend, right? It's a friend to friend. He's a friend to me. That's about it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're going to go back?
RODMAN: Yes, I am. I'm going to go back and do one thing and find out more what's really going on. Find out more.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Next time you go back you should bring this report from Human Rights Watch with you and maybe ask him questions about that as well. You might learn a lot more and it might press him as well.
But thank you for coming on this morning and sharing your impressions.
RODMAN: But either way, either way, guess what though, guess what, (INAUDIBLE) report.
RODMAN: Guess what, guess what, don't hate me, don't hate me, guess what, don't hate me, guess what, don't hate me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to get more on this now from Shane Smith, the co-founder of Vice Media who traveled with Dennis Rodman to North Korea.
So, Shane, I mean, I know you had some hope for basketball diplomacy. You've been to North Korea before. Are you concerned at all that this trip may end up propping up Kim Jong-un and giving him a propaganda coup?
SHANE SMITH, CO-FOUNDER, VICE MEDIA: I don't think so. I mean, they -- it's definitely not going to do that for the rest of the world. People know what's going on. And they know our position. Just to be clear, I didn't go with Dennis on this trip. I've been twice before, I'm not allowed to go anymore. I've made two -- three documentaries on North Korea and that's why I'm not allowed to go.
What happens within North Korea, they can say whatever they want on their state television anyway. They're going to say, you know, whatever they want and they've done so in the past. I don't think it's a propaganda coup internationally.
I think it's a crazy story, but, you know, within North Korea is it a propaganda coup? You know, the New York Philharmonic went there. Was this a propaganda coup? I don't think so.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Any hope for a new relationship, you believe?
SMITH: That's one thing I will say is that, you know, look, there was a love of basketball, you know, sort of reminiscent of "Ping-Pong Diplomacy." There have been, you know, very few instances of dialogue, and dialogue I believe is always good.
And obviously if Kim Jong-un is interested in America, if he's interested in basketball, if he made sort of, you know, allusions to the fact that, you know, he wished that there was closer relations between the two countries, I think that's a good thing.
Even if it's, you know, political grandstanding, at least that could be the beginning of a dialogue that, you know, hasn't worked well in the past between America and North Korea.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Shane Smith, Dennis Rodman, thank you both very much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Our powerhouse roundtable is next. James Carville squares off with the Wall Street Journal's Paul Gigot. Cokie Roberts on the Catholic church in crisis, plus Matt Dowd and Mia Love debate the civil war in Republican ranks.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is up next, but first Steven Colbert's not so modest proposal for Washington dysfunction.
COLBERT: To prevent the next crisis, we just need a worst scenario. I say we suspend a monkey above the floor of Congress, no an Ebola Monkey. Then every Senator and congressperson gets smeared with banana meat. If they do not reach a budget deal by the deadlines, the doors to Congress are locked, the rope is cut, and it is meal time in the monkey house.
ANNOUNCER: This Week with George Stephanopoulos, brought by you by Xerox.
OBAMA: This one singular act of disobedience launched a movement. With the simplest of gestures, she helped change America, and change the world.
BOEHNER: This statute speaks for itself, and today we speak for a nation committed to remembering, and more importantly emulating Rosa Parks. It brings to mind Lady Liberty herself. The promise of America clear for all to see.
STEPHANOPOULOS: A rare bipartisan moment in the Capital this week, the unveiling of the Rosa Parks statue. We're going to talk about all the weeks politics now on our roundtable. I'm joined by ABC's Cokie Roberts, the Republican Mayor of Saratoga Springs Utah, Mia Love, thanks for coming in this morning. Matthew Dowd from ABC as well, Paul Gigot of the Wall Street Journal and James Carville, Democratic Strategist for too many candidates to name.
I can safely say that none of you ever thought you'd be following Dennis Rodman on a roundtable.
COKIE ROBERTS, ABC NEWS: I've never seen anybody dressed like that in the studio either.
STEPHANOPOULOS: May be the last time. But let's talk about what happened this week in Washington. You know Cokie it's, when this sequester, the across the board spending cuts was devised, it was supposed to pack such a powerful punch it would never happen. It seemed to be accepted this week with an air of resignation.
ROBERTS: And more of a whimper than a bang. And I think that's something of a problem for the president. Which he indicated in his press conference where he said it's not going to be Armageddon. Well up until then it was Armageddon. And the administration saying, you know, terrible things are going to happen and children won't be in school.
And Arnie Duncan, the Secretary of Education, saying teachers are getting pink slips. Which the "Washington Post" says is just a straight lie, four pinnochios on the lie test. So you know, they really oversold it I think. And now we're going to have to see--
STEPHANOPOULOS: Oversold or premature?
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well first thing is, I'm going to do something I don't normally do. I'm going to give Mitt Romney and the Republicans some credit. They told the truth in the last election. They said if you reelect Obama we're going to have European-style policies in the United States. And that's just what we're getting. European-style austerity. The thing that has brought Britain to it's knees three times. The thing that has brought Spain and Italy both to its knees. We are copying the very policies that are failing.
Now is it Armageddon? Macroeconomic advisers Goldman Sachs say half a point off of GDP. I don't know if that's Armageddon but that's a lot when you have tepid GDP.
750,000 jobs lost. If you're one of those 750,000 people, that's Armageddon.
PAUL GIGOT, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Were those the same economists who said that if you spent $830 billion on the stimulus you'd get unemployment down below 6 percent?
CARVILLE: That was macro and Goldman.
GIGOT: That's the same economists.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But how about the point, that even you know, Republicans have looked and say, what might have been smarter is to lock in long-term deficit reduction but don't take money out of the economy.
GIGOT: Well sure. Everybody knows that most of the spending that you have to fix is in the entitlement section. There's no question about it. This is not a smart way (to do it). On the other hand, it at least shows that we can cut some spending. It's at least some spending that the President actually has been saying he supports right?
This is part of his $2.5 trillion in spending cuts. So this is something that I think the President could make it less onerous if he would say, take flexibility the Republicans are offering him. He could do that. But he's insisting on using this as a club to get them to agree to another tax increase.
ROBERTS: And he thought it would work.
MATTHEW DOWD, ABC NEWS: To me this is really not about the sequester, this is about a leadership problem. This is a huge leadership problem, I think on both sides of the aisle. And I think both sides are completely unwilling to tell the American public the truth.
I think the Democrats are unwilling to actually tell the American public that we can not fix this unless we deal with entitlements in a real, substantive way. And Republicans unwilling to be truthful to the American public -
STEPHANOPOULOS: Hasn't the president been willing to do that in his negotiations?
DOWD: I think the president speaks loudly and then he says these things, and then never does anything. He never has a meeting. He shows up, he calls a meeting two hours before the sequester is about to expire. I don't think the President has actually reached out and try to do this. But I also don't think they've been receptive from the Republicans either. Republicans are unwilling to say there's waste in the Defense budget and we need to make cuts there.
ROBERTS: I think -
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're actually going to implement budgets on the ground and I want you to weigh in. But also have you, do you sense you're going to feel this in your town?
MIA LOVE, MAYOR, SARATOGA SPRINGS, UTAH: No. We're not going to feel this at all. This is why I advocate for being independent and not being so subjective to federal funding. Or not being dependent on federal funding.
We're going to be absolutely fine. We do not, we're not, our budgets aren't based on how much money comes in from federal government. So as a city, we're going to be fine. I think that you're going to find most states, and most cities that are self-sufficient, are going to do just, are going to do fine.
One of the things that I think is really important here, I think this is not about a right left issue, because they're the ones, both sides got us into this mess. This is a showdown between Washington and the American people. And watching this ping pong game.
ROBERTS: That's a really good point. I mean, where I live, in the Washington suburbs, people will be affected. But the fact is that people are, they see these two men going out, after each other and basically say, just fix it. Stop doing these Washington games.
CARVILLE: I'm sorry but -- am I pronouncing the name correctly?
LOVE: Mia.
CARVILLE: This is having a very adverse effect on the United States military. This is a Republican Senator from New Hampshire. You're delaying ship maintenance, you're cutting training missions down. You're doing all off these things. And yes, if you don't do ship maintenance this year, and you do it next year, when do you start feeling it? You start feeling it at some point. She wants to change it. She saying the same thing Senator McCain was saying. Again, we don't have a half a point of GDP to lose. And the same people are saying this is not going to hurt, are the same people that said there were weapons of mass demonstration, that it would be a cakewalk, that housing shouldn't bring the economy down, and inflation (ph) going up, that inflation was around the corner.
DOWD: I think the problem is that somebody needs to tell the American public, in a broad way, there is going to be pain. If we care about the budget, if we care about the fiscal mess, either we have to make substantial cuts, or we have to raise taxes on the middle class. You can't do it without either one of those.
CARVILLE: What I would say is this. There is pain out there. The middle class is in pain. Incomes are down, the idea that there's no pain in this country, there's been pain in this country for a long time.
GIGOT: And the tax increase is not going to help the economy. We just had, two months ago, the biggest tax increase in 20 years. This is the problem. The president is insisting that Republicans raise taxes. And that is not, they can't do that politically, and they're not going to do it. We're going to have a stalemate until he takes it off the table.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The stalemate is, I think you're right that the stalemate is going to be in place. But is the White House correct that overtime, and it clearly hasn't happened yet, but over time the pressure is going to build because these cuts are going to start to kick in.
GIGOT: There will be some pressure built up, in certain sections of the economy. Certainly where the government has expanded the most. Certainly in some parts of the country where defense matters. There will. There's no question. This is not the most intelligent way to do it. But I don't think it's Armageddon. The President oversold it as Cokie suggested. And now he's got a credibility problem and it's going to hurt him for the next few months.
LOVE: The credibility problem doesn't stop there. Yes, there is pain. There's a lot of pain. I see it out there. I mean I've got family members that live in inner cities. And I can tell you right now, that this President's doing nothing to eliminate those pains.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You both talk about a credibility problem, but Cokie Roberts, our own polling shows that right now at least, the president's approval ratings on handling spending, on handling this issue, far outpace the republicans.
ROBERTS: Right. Absolutely. Our polling shows it and so does everybody else's. So he's got the strong hand here. And he's obviously using it.
The real, what was somewhat encouraging in Senator Ayotte's interview, was the idea of coming to the grand bargain.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I heard an opening there as well.
ROBERTS: That's the only, it's the only way you can do it. The president did say in his press conference the other day, that the big problem in spending is health care. Now we all know that, but for him to say it, counts. So if he, and he said, I'm willing to take on my own party on these entitlement issues.
If that's true, and then the Republicans are willing to take on their own party on taxes you probably can get something.
DOWD: There's just no winners in this. I mean there's no winners. There's somebody that loses less. If you look at the polling, the President loses less. But he doesn't win in this.
Everybody gets mud on them. I think the thing, the interesting thing to pay attention to is the markets, which is a telling sign, which is the markets have not changed. They continue to rise. What they basically decided is, dysfunction in Washington, inability to do anything, is now standard, and so therefore we're going to discount everything going on in Washington.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well not only standard, but maybe it's being done in the wrong way. But the amount of deficit reduction that most economists said is about what we should do over the next 10 years, about $4 trillion -
ROBERTS: It's happening.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is actually happening.
CARVILLE: We've had three years of (inaudible) to GDP, the best three years we've had since World War II. We've had the best three years on leveling of healthcare costs that we've had in the last 40 years. I mean there are things that are happening out there.
The last thing that we need right now is some kind of austerity. This economy is nowhere near where it is, we're going to do what they in Britain, what they did to the Spaniards--
CARVILLE: Why did Senator Ayotte said it's hurting the military?
DOWD: Because the Republicans are unwilling to say the military has waste in it and it's unwilling to be cut. The military should be cut.
ROBERTS: But again it's not being going in a smart way.
CARVILLE: But training missions and maintenance, that's not smart cuts.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to move onto another issue. We had a big development this week in gay marriage. Supreme Court is going to hear the case on Proposition 8 outlawing gay marriage in California. The president and the administration weighed in.
OBAMA: "What we've said is that same sex couples are a group, a class, that deserves heightened scrutiny. That the Supreme Court needs to ask the state why it's doing it. And if the state doesn't have a good reason, it should be struck down. If I were on the court, that'd probably be the view that I'd put forward. But I'm not a judge, I'm the President."
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now the brief didn't go quite that far. The team, the presidency did not argue that married (inaudible) gays and lesbian. But Paul Gigot, one of the other big developments this week, you also saw top Republicans, dozens of top Republicans weighing in with "friend of the court" (inaudible) as well in support of gay marriage.
GIGOT: Not elected officials yet. These are (inaudible). I think what you're seeing is that on gay marriage, this is used to be an issue. Up until a year ago the President was against gay marriage. It divided Democrats. And now you're seeing, I think, after the results of this last election, where young people really moved to the Democrats substantially, in part on some of these cultural issues. You're going to see this issue begin to divide Republicans more. And I think that depending on what the Court says, you're going to see more Republicans, I think instead of saying some did, we need a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, they're going to start to say, let's have the states decide this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you saying perhaps some Republicans may want the Court to get them off the hook?
GIGOT: Well I don't think they want to the Court to say that gay marriage is a Constitutional Right. I think they might be happy if the Court said, you know, the Defense of Marriage Act, signed by Bill Clinton, is unconstitutional. Because it imposes a federal solution on the states. And just let's let New York do it wants.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that good enough for you?
LOVE: Yeah I think that the federal government has its hands full with the fiscal, the fiscal issues. And so either way, I tend to take it at a different angle at this. I know what I believe in my home, and I certainly don't want the federal government defining anything for me. I think that we should, I take the approach that we should leave it to the states.
DOWD: The march of history is already moving and Republicans know if they stand in the way on this, this is just like civil rights, women's rights. We're now at the point, this is an amazing, I think, thing that's happened in a short time period.
It used to be, if you were talking about social issues like this, you were losing as a Democrat if you were talking about it. Now if you're talking about social issues like this, you're losing as a Republican. History is now moving. This is issue is done. Republicans have to come face to face with the idea, this issue is over.
ROBERTS: I must say I am, it is mindboggling how fast it moved. And public opinion really turned very, very quickly on this. And you really have to give credit to very courageous people in the gay community who came forward and said, you're talking about me. I'm your brother, I'm your friend, I'm your sister. And it really did change and young people are -
CARVILLE: I think our colleague last November said it best, George Will, proposition, this thing is literally dying off.
ROBERTS: George always says that for young people being gay is about as interesting as being left handed.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Only one issue that's dividing Republicans right now. You saw this with the Sea Pack (inaudible) Committee. Congress did not invite Chris Christy, one of the Republican leaders in the country right now, Governor of New Jersey. Here was his response.
"They don't want to invite me, that's their call. It's their, you know, it's their organization, it's their business. And they get to decide who they want to have come and not come. It's not like I'm lacking for invitations to speak both here and around the country."
STEPHANOPOULOS: And he's loving his 74 percent approval rating right now. But James this is only one manifestation of it. You've also got Karl Rove's group on the one hand -
CARVILLE: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Trying to support candidates who, defend them against primary challenges from Tea Party candidates. And you've got the Club for Growth targeting what they call Republicans in name only.
CARVILLE: Yeah, (inaudible) we've lost elections before. Democrats have. Republicans have before. I think this one is, somehow or another, has been particularly hard for the Republicans. And they're like really mad at each other right now. To me in an amusing way, if I were a Republican, an almost unhealthy way. I mean they're really lashing out at each other and blaming back and forth.
The (inaudible) was kind of my idea for a significant story. They're really going after, they're naming the people they're going after right now. Which is of course going to have a chilling effect on other Republicans who think that they may be (inaudible).
STEPHANOPOULOS: Any way to stop this Paul Gigot?
GIGOT: I would welcome it. I think we need a big debate. If I were CPAC I would have invited Christy and let him say what he wanted on guns or anything else. And if you disagreed with him, boo him or what have you. But this is time the Republican party needs to have a debate. And a pretty raucous debate. And I disagree with James, I don't think it's any meaner than the Democrats. I remember after 1988 and they lost the third election in a row. So you know, the Republicans need to have this out. They need to sort it out, they need to debate.
Don't blackball any candidates or any Republicans, come on in! Let's mix it up.
DOWD: CPAC, CPAC to me has totally diminished its credibility as an organization. When you basically, Chris Christy is a national leader, and their explanation about why, the next day about why -
STEPHANOPOULOS: He didn't have a good year.
DOWD: It's like an All Star Game, they said he didn't have a good year. And they invite Sarah Palin who wasn't competent enough to keep a Fox News contract? But she's invited to a CPAC meeting? I mean to me, they basically, many people, Karl and many people, decided that the voters out there don't know what they're doing. That the votes who like Chris Christy, and the votes who like other candidates, they're really mixed up and we're going to tell them what the truth is. And whatever that's a strategy on either side, when you're trying to tell the voters they're wrong, it's a bad move.
LOVE: I'm going to say, this is probably where the debate comes in a little bit. I am going to say this, CPAC is an independent, they're their organization. They can go in and ask whoever they want to. I'm sure Chris Christy is not hurting for speaking events. I mean listen to the man. I've met the man. I think he's a great leader. But he's (inaudible) loyal to New Jersey, and follows the things that New Jersey wants him to follow. And that might not fall in line with what CPAC wants.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Doesn't the Republican party have to expand it's reach in the Northeast in order to be credible on a national level?
LOVE: Look, I think we need to have a debate. I don't like the fact that Republicans are eating each other. If you think about this, Democrats tend to, tend to stick together based on one issue. And we tend to divide based on many different issues.
LOVE: So we have to have a debate. And healthy debate is good. And we have to know that we're not going to agree on everything.
ROBERTS: But Mia, the Republicans, for Republicans to have lost senate seats in the last election was political malpractice. Everything was in place for them to gain senate seats. And the reason they lost senate seats was because of their candidates. And the reason the candidates were a problem is they were too "out there" for a statewide election.
GIGOT: That's true in some places, you're right, Missouri. But it wasn't true in North Dakota and Montana where they had Main Street candidates who were just bad candidates.
LOVE: Right.
CARVILLE: Any day that you have more Sarah Palin and less Chris Christy, is a good day for James Carville.
Me, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the hell out of Washington.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to move on, the other big story this week, we all saw it in Rome. I was fortunate enough to be in Rome to watch Pope Benedict retire. Cokie you were there as me as well. Remarkable pageantry in his final hours. But it does now come at a time after this remarkably bold move in retiring, where the Catholic Church is going to have to make a lot of big decisions going forward.
ROBERTS: And they're at sea. It was striking to me, when you and I were talking with Cardinal Wuerl of Washington, how little they know about what they're going to do next. And how, I mean, they know formally that they're going to go into a meeting, and then they're going to talk.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Because everything here is new.
ROBERTS: Is brand new.
STEPHANOPOULOS: There hasn't been a resignation in 600 years.
ROBERTS: And they, and they also, more than half of them have never been in a conclave where you elect a pope. And there's no frontrunner. You know, with the last election, we all knew Joseph Ratzinger and so did they. But no, there's nobody like that now. And with the scandals that are there. The first thing they have to do is make absolutely sure in every way, that whomever they pick is spotless.
STEPHANOPOULOS: (inaudible)
ROBERTS: And they don't know how to do that. They don't know to. I mean what are they going to do? Call the head of the Knights of Columbus? You know they don't know how to do it.
DOWD: To me this is like one of the crucial moments in the Church's history right now. If you look at what's happened, this huge scandal with pedophiles in Church. It has gone through every Diocese in the country. And you're stacked here with Catholics. I'm Catholic, I was an altar boy, I went to Catholic university, all of that.
I think we're at that moment in time where they have to make a decision. Actually similar to the Republican party in the same exact thing. They can either retrench and become a minority institution, or they can expand. Youth are leaving the Church. Minorities in the developed world are leaving the Church. There's no role, women don't feel a real role in the Church at this time and it's dominated by mostly older, white men.
STEPHANOPOULOS: A letter from E.J. Dionne, a fanciful kind of proposal, they should pick a nun for pope.
DOWD: I think they actually need to go back to a church of the heart as opposed to a church of the head. And that's a problem.
CARVILLE: You know I'm a Cradle Catholic, I pull for the Church. But I don't deny the problems they have. I'm just praying that if the Holy Spirit ever does intervene that he comes down-
ROBERTS: She.
CARVILLE: Or she, my daughter will correct me also.
CARVILLE: And we go wow! We got this guy's really a humble, neat guy that people can look up to and can make some of the necessary changes. They're not going to change doctrine, but they certainly change what they emphasis. I'm just hoping and praying that we get a good -
LOVE: I think it's great actually that's here a pope that holds a very big position in the Catholic Church and says, I am unhealthy, I can no longer do this any longer. And actually says, you know, I'm going to step down.
You know I'm going to be really interested in what happens with conclave. I mean everything I know I learned from Dan Brown.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the things Paul as you go, it is fascinating now, for the first time you're actually hearing some American names being talked about as pope. Cardinal Timothy Dolan, here in New York, Sean O'Malley from Boston. But historically there has been a real reluctance to have an American because of the association with a Super Power.
GIGOT: Right. America's so strong, otherwise why have a pope, religious leader, also an American. Although Timothy Dolan is a great, great leader and very charismatic, those of us who know him would be thrilled, frankly, to see him as pope. But I think it's unlikely.
I think what would be most exciting, even to Catholics in the western world, is to go (inaudible) get a pope from the developing world, where the Church is growing.
ROBERTS: Where the Catholics are.
GIGOT: Asia. That's where it most exciting, one of the biggest growth opportunities for the Catholic Church is in China. Which persecutes the Church. And you have to have that next pope, in addition to that kind of pastoral role, you have to have somebody who can clean out that bureaucracy and they're going to have to open the windows.
ROBERTS: Well I'm not sure that's going to happen though. I think that -
DOWD: Well then it's a Church where you question whether or not it's imbued with the Holy Spirit. If they don't think they have to keep the doors shut and everything in the dark?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Cokie as you know, there are a lot of reports that the pope has turned over the dossier on all the corruption scandals inside the Vatican. That only the Cardinals are going to be able to see that. But it certainly sounds as if it is explosive information.
CARVILLE: Of course they have problems over there. How explosive it is, the answers probably vary. I would be surprised if it's anything else. I think what people want, they want a humble guy who can straighten out, you know, make the Vatican not a place of intrigue but a place that people can look up to.
And this guy from the Philippines? What about him?
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's a young man.
ROBERTS: The idea of the Vatican not being a place of intrigue is like saying a political party -
STEPHANOPOULOS: There was some feeling over there, talking to a lot of Cardinals, that the boldness of Pope Benedict's move, in resigning, in doing something that hadn't been done in 600 years, might inspire them to make a bold move as well.
ROBERTS: But they, but they differ on what that is of course. And of course they have a different, they have different constituencies just as you were talking about in this country. There are different issues facing them. So in Africa, the AIDS crisis has been something that the Church has had to deal with enormously. In other parts of the world, in Europe it's the rise of Islam and the defection of young people. I mean all over the world there are different issues and so each one of these Cardinals comes in with a different set of criteria -
CARVILLE: The biggest problem with this, and they all know this. If they go the wrong way, they're going to become irrelevant. And that's the one thing that they can't take. And they have to change. They're still relevant but they need to be more relevant. They're using their authority, as all of those things that Matthew talked about, keep eroding. And for the Church to regain it's authority, we need a pope that the world can look up to. Not just Catholics.
DOWD: This is a moment, I think in time, where if they basically said we're going to back to the Church as established on the Sermon on the Mount, if they went back to that, which is in dire need of where we are in the world, to basically go back to that, where they put what Christ did back then, they would be a Church that would be relevant.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Got to take one more quick break. We'll be back with more roundtable right after this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One more quick round on the roundtable on the stories that may have been overlooked this week or something to watch for in the next week. Let me start with Paul Gigot of the Wall Street Journal.
GIGOT: This week the Supreme Court rejected 5 to 4 a challenge from the left to the Foreign Wiretap Surveillance Program that the Obama administration has been pursuing. So you have five conservative justices agreeing with the Obama administration which is implementing the Bush policy. Goes to show you the degree to which the Obama and Bush Anti-Terror policies are actually much closer than advertised.
STEPHANOPOULOS: There has been a lot of continuity.
CARVILLE: I hate to say this, but I think the environmental impact study on the Keystone Pipeline by the State Department is an enormous story. It probably means that Keystone is going to be built and the environmental communities will be up in arms.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They basically said it's not going to have much of an impact on the climate.
CARVILLE: And I think that's a big story. And now I've got Bill McKibben coming to my class at Tulane I know he's not going to like that. But it's going to, I'm sure the study will be questioned, but you can't diminish it.
Look if you're a Democrat and you believe in science, then if this is the science, that's the science.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The Keystone Pipeline is going to be approved.
CARVILLE: It seems more likely today than it did last week, I'll say that.
ROBERTS: Well of course I've been out of the country doing pope-speak so I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage. But one of the things I noticed when I got home last night was that General Michelle Johnson has been named head of the Air Force Academy. And she's a basketball player there and of course, a woman. And that I think is very, very important. Because we've had so many problems with women in the military. I mean for somebody to volunteer to serve our country and then be abused in our military is so shocking. And to have a woman be in charge of training these young Air Force members, I think, is very important.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I think that's right. You're going to be going back for the Papal Conclave. Do you think there's a pope by Easter?
ROBERTS: Oh I do. I think that they very much want to have a pope by Palm Sunday which is March 24th. So the day to look for, March 19th, St. Joseph's Day. I just learned, as a Catholic of so many years, that St. Joseph's Day is right up there with Easter and Christmas as a feast day, you can eat meat, you can do anything you want during Lent, and it would be a day that we could rejoice more than most Lenten days.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll circle it on our calendars. Mia Love?
LOVE: In 2011 I remember looking back at my notes and seeing this poll that was done by Gallup where they asked Republicans and Democrats, how much of every dollar spent by federal government is waste? Republicans said 52 out of every dollar, Democrats said 47. Which told me at that time, an overwhelming amount of Americans thought there was a lot of waste. And I'm wondering what it looks like today. And like I said, I believe that the sequester is really, it's painted as a showdown between Republicans and Democrats, but I really think that it's going to shift between Washington and the American people. And I'd love to see, I'm looking for that swell of American people saying, you know what? Washington's not doing the job anymore. We are going to actually go in and take this country back.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're going to see what people really think is important. I think you're right.
LOVE: Healing is going to be done on the ground level.
DOWD: I'm going to be a little philosophical and what I'm picking, it's poverty to me. But it's poverty of the heart and soul that I think is existing today. We have a country that celebrates the powerful, while we feel powerless. We have things that fill our lives but we don't feel fulfilled. We have more connections and we're less connected. And we have bigger homes but we're trying to find a home.
And I think in the end, what matters about this pope and what matters is, how do we find our way to happiness when we have all this stuff going on.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We are going to end on that homily. Well said. Thank you all very much.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
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One down . . . . .
52 thoughts on "Breaking News Yet Again"
Looking forward to the eleven o'clock news on channel 2!
I know you will be articulate, praying for you and your family. Hoping the lawsuit will quickly be put to rest and your weekend will be blessed.
Thank you so much, Meaghan.
Wow Julie. Anne, that was a great interview and I think they covered it well.
Nicely done, Julie Anne. The truth is the truth. I wonder why the pastor wouldn't give his side of the story? Oh ya, because he doesn't control all those listening. If he can't spin the story the way he wants it he won't talk. I'm sure he will have much to say to his own congregation. Hopefully, they will be watching the news to see the other side of things.Proverbs 18:17 NIVThe first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.
I don't know that I've ever paid much attention to that verse. Wow.I'm surprised Chuck didn't want an interview, actually. He's a very good communicator and I know he could have articulated his side well.
Thank you, Don. I was pleased with this report. Anita Kissee did a very nice job.
I would just like to say that I am an atheist. Well, an atheist with leanings toward Greek paganism, but primarily an atheist. I would also like to add that I like your style, Julie Anne. Excuse the archaic phrase, but you got moxy, kid. I found an article about you at katu.com, and was intrigued by the story. I did a quick search for you blog and I've enjoyed reading it. It sounds like Friar Chuck's a control freak with some pretty whacked out interpretations of the bible. I really can't understand how a youth group would lead to sin, how dark clothing on women is masculine, how no co-ed swimming is a good thing, or why a male pastor is teaching "at" a ladies retreat via a recorded video. He certainly sounds like a cult leader who has to have his hand on every aspect of every parishioner's life. Glad that you got out of there when you did. And if you don't mind, I will say a prayer to Zeus for you. Maybe he'll hurl a few lightning bolts at Friar Chuck (just to scare him a bit!). :-DSincerely,A fan.
Just so you know, your blog has gone national. Fark.com, a fairly large and well known news aggrigator has picked up KATU's story and put it on their main page. Anyway, best of luck to you, hope this goes your way!
A fan, Thanks for checking out the blog and your support. When you look back on an experience like this and see everything laid out in black and white, it's pretty obvious this place was not a healthy one. Too bad we didn't see the signs more clearly early on. I hope that our story helps others who may be blinded.
Wow. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for letting me know.
A word of caution. Fark is known for its rough edges and snarkiness, but at heart we're mostly a bunch of good people with a soft spot for kittens. Don't take any negative comments personally.Sincerely,A fan.
Just so you know, I support your cause completely. It is a creepy cult tactic to sue any member of a congregation because they speak out about the way they feel after leaving a church. These control tactics (Shunning, and lawsuits) are a form of spiritual abuse, and a way to make you feel isolated until you crawl back, begging to return.
If memory serves me, he likes attention! Well now he's got it!
You're right and hopefully this blog serves its purpose to show that we are not alone so that none of us who left will go crawling back. We are strong! Thanks for your comment, Michael.
Snark is a lesser evil than spiritual abuse. I've got my big girl panties on 🙂 Bring it on!
Your memory did not fail!
Look at the new Google reviews from today:Sam said"Pastor Chuck sets a terrible example for his congregation. Is this a Church of Christ or Church of Scientology?" Nick said"Pastor Chuck knows who his friends are and has no problem identifying his enemies and attacking them zealously."Hoarsy said"Pastor Chuck is a vindictive lawsuit happy jerk who has hardened his heart to his fellow Christians in pursuit of an almost Pharasean focus."The church congregants are going to have a harder time keeping the glowing reviews on top now.
Seattle has the cussing pastor, now Portland has the suing pastor!
Be sure to check back. It's amazing how those glowing reviews get back on top.
That is a sad reality!
Here's the newest Dex review:Once was enough by Jcooli09- 05/12/2012I attended one time in Early May, what a disappointment! The pastor seemed like something out of a cheap movie, very creepy! All the members seemed to share thoughts, I've never seen anything like it. It's almost like they've been told how to think, feel, and act and they follow instructions very well. This was a cult, it's like he was simply reinforcing his strange version of Jesus to his slaves.I ran out of there, and suggest you stay away.Share Review
And it has also made it to Reddit.com. Yet another massive (hundreds of millions of hits per day) website full of snarky cat lovers.
I am also an atheist (bordering on Anti-theist). And it is people like this pastor that push myself and others further into the Anti camp. How anyone can spew this kind of vile hatred in one breath and speak of the love of Jesus in the next is beyond me. Stay strong, and keep questioning.
Its spelled "aggregator".
Snarky cat lovers? LOL Everybody needs to learn to deal with a good dose of snark every now and then.
Caught your story on the news. Very sad that this nut job chose to file a defamation suit which is most certainly frivolous. The guy must not feel very comfortable or secure with his abilities to manage "the flock" as it were. I took a look at the church website and watched about 15 minutes of a sermon he gave. I don't blame you for leaving the building. I'm sure you're going to have a lot of support from the community at large. I usually don't post but this thing really struck a nerve! You're gonna mop the floor with this guy.
This Google reviewer got it right!"This church should be called graceless. If you haven't heard the news, Pastor chuck thinks he is above the law and that his rights as a US Citizen are more than others. In other words he has the right to free speach in slamming other churches, and belief systems but when someone posts a negative review about his church he manipulates the review sight, and sues the reviewer. It remindes me of the book Animal Farm: all pigs are created equal, some are more equal than others. It is people like this who give the God of Grace that I believe in a bad name and condem many to an eternity in Hell. I hope that the attention that this story recieves shows that he is an outcast in Christian society not the real deal. God is full of love, grace and forgiveness, he longs for all people to come to him as his children just like those of us who are parents have sweet memories of our children sitting in our laps. He wants to bless us, heal our hurts, and fill us with hope. Pastor Chuck is an abomination of this message preaching leagalism and fault rather than grace and love. People need to know that this is not the Christian way, this is not a servant of the Lord rather a self appointed God of his own church."
Great comment from KATU news site:"I wonder if Pastor O'Neal realizes that by filing the suit and making the public aware of it,he has invited every member of the public to judge for themselves the actions of the church. Pastor O'Neal has put a brighter light on Beaverton Grace Bible Church than Ms. Smith ever could have! I'm off to do a little light reading….. I wonder if I'll find the words 'Forgiveness', 'Charity', or 'Humble'. Yessir, the Lord sure works in mysterious ways!"
People ought to be aware that we're not in the Dark Ages anymore, no institution is above criticism. This pastor is a crook.
The following text has become the key counsil for this situation:Proverbs 26:20Where there is NO WOOD, THE FIRE GOES OUT; And where there is NO TALEBEARER, STRIFE CEASES.Looks like GASOLINE has been poured on this fire!
Hi Fred and Anne;Thank you so much for your support. It really should strike a nerve to anyone. I don't appreciate being a part of this lawsuit, but now that it's out. I'm ready.
From Chuck O'Neals Google review of over 2 years ago:" It is our prayer that there will be no more wood thrown upon the fire of contentiousness, strife, discord, and division. It is our prayer that the fire will go out and that the body of Christ at BGBC will be able to press on "in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel" (Phil. 1:27). It is our prayer that those who started the fire and have cut, stacked, and stoked much wood upon it, will repent, for God's glory and their blessing. If you have any questions, please contact the pastor and elders…"Who exactly has been putting more wood upon the fire? Oh ya,it's you, Chuck. And which elder should we contact…..the one who left your sick church recently? Better to talk with those who have left, like Julie Anne, than those that are still brainwashed.
Here's my Google Maps review: Never been to this church, just read about the lawsuit. Hey, pastor! I opine that you are a delusional idiot! You can't sue everyone. Go ahead and try. I dare you. I guess this frivolous pursuit means you have free time, now that you have solved poverty, famine, war and every other human rights abuse. Spare time, spare money and an overdeveloped persecution complex? In my own, humble CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED SPEECH, you are a self-important grudge-holding petty pathetic fool. hoo,boy – did you EVER pick the wrong thing to do. I hope that Ms Julie Anne Smith gets the best possible lawyer in the country and when your ass gets handed to you in court and you are liable for her legal fees as is the standard practice that you get to write the biggest check of your life. And then I hope she sues you for infliction of emotional distress and you get to write an even bigger check.
Here is another good link for your Spiritual Abuse resources:VM Life Resources http://dallascult.com/Doug and Wendy Duncan are former cult members, and as professionally-trained counselors they now help people who are or were in abusive churches or religious groups. Wendy's book about their experience, I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult, is one of the best ex-cult-member's accounts you will read.Blessings to you!
I have just learned of what is happening to you and your family. I am sorry that such wolves in the Instititional church have decided to attack you now with a law suit. I guess if the hirelings can't get money by milking the sheep through tithes, they must now resort to lawsuits. The organized religion out there is nothing but the apostate church. It is time to flee them. "Come out of her my people." God has preserved your daughter and your family.God be with you. They will not win this law suit. If anything, this institutional church will be exposed for what it really is, and it has begun.Jesus be with you,Sandra http://dividingword.wordpress.com/http://dividingword.net/
It is this kind of behavior that turned me away from organized religion. Why preach from a book that tells you to be a decent human, then going and doing something as pointless and ridiculous as this. Good luck throughout your ordeal, and stay strong- the truth shall prevail.
Be encouraged. This "pastor" is attempting a carnal solution to a spiritual problem. It won't work. In the long run, it will backfire on him. Galatians 6:7-8 says, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption…"Life and peace to you and yours.
I, too, once pulled my family from a church situation that was eerily similar to yours. The pastors preached "a different gospel," based almost their entire doctrine on out-of-context scriptures (while ignoring whole sections of Bible that refuted their doctrine), and did not allow discourse in any fashion. When I had questions I was told "that's just how we believe" — and rumors about me and my family ran rampant. Thankfully, my military profession took us overseas, far away from that hell. That was 11 years ago, and the church hasn't changed their message — and we haven't been back to church since, and don't miss it. Don't give up.
By the way, the local news account of your story has made it to fark.com where you have a lot of supporters. Here is the link to the discussion thread: http://www.fark.com/comments/7101926/Praise-God-serve-$500k-defamation-lawsuit-for-a-negative-online-review-from-a-shunned-parishoner?fpost=kiYU5pSJbs_1MCc1EYGk9eHFUHBKQgTmydyZk
Yes, I am aware that seeing this kind of negative situation really can put pastors and Christians in a negative light. I feel very bad about that. There really are genuine Christians out there. I hope you cross paths with some so that you can see for yourself.
Hey GeekGurl – thanks for the support. I think I probably do have the best attorney in the area. I'm feeling confident.
Thank you for the note, Sandra!
Thank you, Mark. Great verse and application. It's clear he's avoiding the little bit in the Bible about not suing Christians. Sad :(I appreciate your support.
I read some of those comments. Fun group! I'll have to visit again when things calm down.
I'm glad you got out when you did. Isn't that interesting how questioning causes so much strife? I'm not giving up when I have support like this :)thanks!
just wanted to say the story doesn't surprise me… just so you know… pastors seem to think that they are smart and can get away with this… and they have been for a long time… anytime there is something that doesn't set well with their religion they tell you to shun someone… its been happening since the dark ages… and to hear that the low life want to sue a single mom is just the icing on the cake… thats what lowlife pond scum do… thats why people become pastors… they teach you about your bible just enough to get you to put that almighty dollar in that collection plate… i guarantee that if there wasn't free housing and food and a retirement plan attached that there wouldn't be one single pastor… at least none that didn't have the purist intentions… how do i know all this you ask… i was once "called to ministry".. i saw the hypocrisy up front and personal… i know from experience… and thats why church stays where it should be.. in my heart… and don't try the congregate thing on me because that just means to gather every now and again.. there is nothing in the bible that says you must have a multimillion dollar church and have church every day of the week… but i digress… bottom line.. people should keep there religion secret like jesus said: "pray in secrete so that no one sees you".. thesecretapostle
I'm wondering if the leader of your former church was trying to get publicity himself with this lawsuit. Seems to me that it's backfiring. It's making him and the church look far more ridiculous than this blog ever could have, while at the same time driving people to this blog to read all about it. I notice the visitor counter is WAY up.
Julie Ann: I am very sorry that BGBC and Chuck O'Neal have so much hatred and evil in their hearts that they have been harassing you, first through intentional "blacklisting" (aka "shunning") and now through litigation.I am very active in a home church, and lately have become very disturbed at the realization that some Americans who no longer participate in a faith community do so because of rotten experiences in abusive churches, at the hands of self-centered bullying "pastors" who really have no legitimate business impersonating true ministers.
Don't worry, the Cussing Pastor is just as coercive as the Suing pastor, even if he doesn't sue. (there are lots of similar stories of shunning and whatnot coming out of there including church discipline contracts (copies/scans of these documents) wherein you must list all your private sins so someone can give you an exam every so often to make sure you're getting them under control..?
Seems like this guy is not what the scriptures identify as being "of God". The things of God are edifying, uplifting and seek not contention. I don't know for sure but wouldn't you think God would take no greater offense than someone like this that is supposed to represent Him?
Get a life, when are people of this country going to be free of religion….god damn christians! They loved anyone except those who believe different from them.


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Justin Sun, CEO of decentralized internet startup TRON, has hinted at a forthcoming partnership with an unknown firm valued at "tens of billions of dollars."
The tweet, posted Friday, Oct. 12, gives little information, stating that:
"Finally, First time to partner with tens of billions USD valuation industry giant. Guess the name."
Twitter followers were quick to join the guessing game: one proposed Alibaba – Sun is a graduate of Alibaba founder Jack Ma's Hupan university, as his Twitter profile states, to which another replied: "Alibaba is worth more than 500 billion. Not tens of billions."
Other suggestions included Baidu, Clover, and – more than one – Disney. None of these have been confirmed as of press time.
This is the second time that the CEO's tweets have made crypto headlines this month: on Oct. 8, Sun claimed the TRON token's forthcoming update would see it beat Ethereum (ETH) on speed and EOS on cost, prompting an 8 percent surge in the asset's value.
In late September, TRON released further details of its bid to integrate with torrent client BitTorrent, which it had acquired this July for an undisclosed amount. According to the latest news, a product dubbed "Project Atlas" will seek to integrate TRX within the platform's user base to create a hybrid content sharing ecosystem that leverages cryptocurrency.
As of press time, TRON's TRX cryptocurrency is ranked 11th largest cryptocurrency by market cap and is trading at around $0.0227 per token, up 1.65 percent on the day.


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- Visit a construction site or manufacturing or processing plant. Discuss engineering design and construction with the engineer in charge. Ask to see engineering drawings and have them explained. Tell what you learned about engineering and the day-to-day work of an engineer from this visit.
- Visit another engineer (other than your counselor or the person in requirement 1) in his office. Tell how the work done there relates to the work done in the field.
- Explain the work of six of the following types of engineers: civil, mechanical, chemical, electrical, industrial, agricultural, aeronautical, mining, astronautical, metallurgical, nuclear, biomedical, ceramic, petroleum.
- With your counselor's advice, select a subject for research in engineering. Do research in publications and interview experts. Tell what you learned and how you got the facts. (Notes may be used.)
- Tell why measurements and calculations are important in an engineer's work. Explain the difference between accurate and precise measurements and calculations. Explain the values of the metric system.
- Using an engineering college or university catalog, learn what high school courses you could take to be admitted into an accredited engineering college. Report to counselor. Tell what "accredited college" means.
- Do ONE of the following:
- Show how the "engineering approach" to problems works by laying out plans, step by step, for your next campout. List alternative ideas on such items as cost, campsites, and transportation. Tell why decided as you did.
- Make an original piece of patrol equipment. Draw plans for it. Show the plans to your counselor.
- Do TWO of the following:
- Transforming Motion. Show or tell how a car or truck transmission transforms motion.
- Harnessing Electricity. Make a model of an electrical device. A kit may be used. Or, make a list all electrical appliances in your home and find out approximately how much electricity each uses in 1 month. Tell five ways to conserve electricity.
- Materials Science. Do experiments to show the differences in strength and heat conductivity among wood, plastic, and metal. Discuss with your counselor what you have learned.
- Energy Conversion. Tell how a car or flashlight battery converts chemical energy into electrical energy. Do an experiment to show the value and potential of solar energy. Explain your results. Tell about one way to convert mechanical to electrical energy.
- Traffic Study. With the advice of your counselor. Select a busy street or highway intersection in your community. Make a study of the traffic flow there in both heavy and light traffic period. Find out your community's predicted population 5 years from now. Using all the data, tell your counselor what could be done to improve traffic flow 5 years hence.
- Build an engineering project for entry into a science-engineering fair. Show it to your counselor.
- Study "Faith of the Engineer." Tell how this is like the Scout Oath.
These were the REQUIREMENTS
To see the current requirements Click Here
BSA Advancement ID#: 46


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11. Webster, Lewis. A Bear Story. Oneida, Wisconsin: Oneida Bilingual Project, 1982.
12. Lemieux, Mary (illustrator). This Is My Family. Oneida, Wisconsin: Oneida Language Project, 1977.
13. The WNALP Oneida Language Team. Kwi: tel Latketskwas. Oneida, Wisconsin: Oneida Language Project, May 1975.
14. The WNALP Oneida Language Team. Kwi: tel Latketskwas Tsyilohs Yutketskwas. Oneida, Wisconsin: Oneida Language Project, May 1975.
15. Schusky, Ernest L. The Right To Be Indian. San Francisco, CA: The Indian Historian Press, Inc., 1970. Two copies.
16. United States Commission on Civil Rights. American Indian Civil Rights Handbook. Washington, D.C.: Clearinghouse Publication No. 33, March 1972. Three copies.
17. The Oklahoma Heritage Committee. Pride in Oklahoma and Our Heritage In American. OKC, OK: Oklahoma State Department of Education, 1976. Two copies.
18. Commission on the Bicentennial of the United States Constitution. Constitution Week: "An American Legacy." Washington, D.C. : n.d. Two copies.
19. National Indian Policy Center. Report to Congress: Recommendations for the Establishment of a National Indian Policy Center. Washington, D.C.: George Washington University, June 1, 1992. Two copies.
20. Red Willow Institute. Applicability of Federal Tax Incentives to American Indian Reservations. Omaha, NE: June 21, 1991.
The University of Oklahoma Libraries | 401 West Brooks Street, Norman, OK 73019 | (405)325-4142


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Schlesinger, Arthur Meier
Schlesinger, Arthur Meier shlĕs´ĭnjər [key], 1888–1965, American historian, b. Xenia, Ohio. After teaching at Ohio State Univ. and the State Univ. of Iowa, he was a professor of history (1924–54) at Harvard and in 1928 became an editor of the New England Quarterly. His well-known works in the field of colonial history include The Colonial Merchants and the American Revolution, 1763–1776 (1918) and Prelude to Independence: The Newspaper War on Britain, 1764–1776 (1958). He is also known for his interest in the interpretation of social history, as in The Rise of the City, 1878–1898 (1933) and Political and Social Growth of the American People, 1865–1940 (1941). His other books include New Viewpoints in American History (1922), essays on American historiography. With Dixon Ryan Fox he edited the
History of American Lifeseries (13 vol., 1927–48), which remains a valuable examination of U.S. social and cultural life.
The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Copyright © 2023, Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
See more Encyclopedia articles on: Historians, U.S.: Biographies


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Nearly six months since popular protests toppled pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych, fighting between Ukraine's military and pro-Russia rebels continues in eastern Ukraine.
Russia insists that it should be permitted to send aid to the conflict-battered region, many of whose residents are Russian speakers. It has sent a convoy of trucks it says are carrying relief goods to the border.
But the Kiev government has expressed fears that the mission is a camouflaged effort to smuggle supplies to pro-Russia rebels.
Both countries have asked the International Committee of the Red Cross for help facilitating any delivery of aid.'
From Kiev, CNN's Will Ripley explains what's happening on the ground.
What do the rebels still control?
The rebels still control the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, as well as some border checkpoints in the east.
However, the Ukrainian military appears to have been quickly retaking the territory around the two cities.
It claims that the militants control just 20% of the area they controlled at the height of their power in eastern Ukraine.
Read: Who are Ukraine's rebels?
Is the Ukraine military still advancing?
Yes, and it appears in recent days the Ukrainian military has been making headway against the rebel forces. Maps provided by the Ukrainian government indicate the size of the rebel territory is shrinking every day.
The strategy of the Ukrainian military has been to break up and isolate the territories, cutting off key roadways and corridors to disrupt what it says is a flow of weapons and fighters from Russia.
Russia denies claims by Kiev and the West that it is providing support to the rebels.
Why is Russia sending convoys -- both aid and military -- now?
Publicly, Russian officials claim their humanitarian convoy only contains aid to help the people who are suffering in eastern Ukraine.
But there are reports that some of the trucks now being inspected are nearly empty.
Meantime, Western journalists and the Ukrainian government report an armed Russian convoy was seen crossing the border from Russia Thursday night, something Ukraine has been alleging for months.
Such reports feed into the skepticism of the Ukrainian government about this supposed humanitarian aid.
What's the perceived threat? Is this an invasion or just a show of force?
It's not an invasion, and not really a show of force either because these armed convoys have allegedly been crossing under the cover of night.
As for Russia's humanitarian convoy, it appears to be a move allowing Russia to publicly show its sympathy for those are currently suffering because of the fighting in eastern Ukraine.
But allegations of covert weapons smuggling that would allow the bloodshed to continue, raise questions about Russia's true intentions.
In an interview Monday with Reuters, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen spoke of a 'high probability' that Russia will invade Ukraine.
'We see the Russians developing the narrative and the pretext for such an operation under the guise of a humanitarian operation, and we see a military buildup that could be used to conduct such illegal military operations in Ukraine,' he said.
What has been the reaction in Kiev?
Kiev lawmakers and military officials are not surprised.
They say this is nothing new, it's just the first time that Western journalists have observed an armed convoy crossing from Russia into Ukraine.
They're also grateful that foreign journalists have been able to observe and report on this armed convoy because they feel it corroborates their ongoing claims and justifies their skepticism and mistrust of the true intentions of this Russian aid convoy from Moscow.
What's the bigger picture: Is this all about Putin warning the West not to expand into Ukraine, and other former Soviet satellite states?
Ukrainian lawmakers believe that Putin wants to control Ukraine in an attempt to reestablish a new version of the former Soviet Union. Ukraine would be an important part of that plan.
At the same time, if Ukraine were to align more closely with Europe and see its economy revived, it would not bode well for Russian citizens, who are watching closely what is unfolding in Ukraine.
For example, the former the Soviet state of Poland saw tremendous economic benefits after its alignment with Europe, while under pro-Russian Yanukovych, Ukraine's economy plummeted and government corruption ran rampant.
Russia wants to exert its power and influence, and if Ukraine successfully integrates into the European Union -- and benefits from that partnership -- it would be a huge setback for Russia politically and strategically.
Russia denies claims by Kiev and the West that it is providing support to the rebels. But there are reports that some of the trucks now being inspected are nearly empty. Russia insists that it should be permitted to send aid to the conflict-battered region, many of whose residents are Russian speakers. It has sent a convoy of trucks it says are carrying relief goods to the border.
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- The Axis powers consisted of Germany, Italy, Japan, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria. The leaders of Axis forces were Adolf Hitler, the chancellor of Nazi Germany; Benito Mussolini, the prime minister o
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From a talk given at Pondicherry by Beloo Mehra, 2007 (Part 3)
Continued from Part 2….
A Few Examples
Let us now take a look at some of the famous ashrams in present-day India to illustrate some of their key roles. These examples illustrate the outer organizational diversity of the 'institution' called ashram, while at the same time highlighting the inner oneness of the deeper purpose or role served by an ashram.
But before we go to our examples, a small note about the so-called 'secular' ashrams of modern times is in order. These days one also sees ashrams built for specific purposes such as providing homes for elderly people. These vridha-ashrams are now growing in number as the old system of joint family is breaking down and more and more older people are finding themselves alone and unable to take care of themselves. Homes built for street children and other oppressed sections of society are also sometimes given the name of Ashram as they offer refuge and shelter to the homeless.
The world-famous Belur Math, the headquarters of the Ramakrishna Math and Ramakrishna Mission, has now become a place of pilgrimage for people from all over the world, professing different religious faiths. Sanctified by Swami Vivekananda and several other illumined monks of Ramakrishna Order, the Belur Math premises include the main monastery, several temples and offices of the Mission. The Ramakrishna Order of monks, which came into existence in 1886 with the blessings of Sri Ramakrishna stands as a symbol of the eternal truths of religion realized and embodied by Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda, and their message of harmony of religions, divinity of the soul, renunciation and service.
Today, the Ramakrishna movement has become a great force for promoting equality, peace and fraternity in India and abroad. In a diverse society like India, the idea of mutual respect and brotherly feelings towards one and all has great relevance. Another factor which contributes much to its popularity is the rational approach it brings to bear upon every vital problem of life. The fact that this movement lays great stress on selfless service as a means of God-realization also attracts many people.
The Ved Vignan Maha Vidya Peeth, commonly known as the Art of Living International Center in Bangalore started by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, is an important center for spiritual retreats, yoga and meditation classes, and other related workshops. Additionally, it offers schooling opportunities for rural children and also other rural development programmes. There is also a unique Heritage School in this ashram that serves to promote the traditional knowledge systems and Vedic studies. Students at Heritage school are provided an education that caters to needs of the students in modern times and lays great emphasis on the traditional Vedic methods of teaching. The Center also has an Agama Pathshala, a school dedicated to train the students from all over the country in the Dravidian style of temple worship as enshrined in the Shaivic traditions, while at the same time receiving general education and computer training.
In Amritapuri, the ashram-city founded by Ma Amritanandmayi popularly known as Amma, in addition to all the facilities catering to the usual roles of an ashram one also finds institutions dedicated to higher technical learning and modern healthcare, all started by the Ashram of Amma.
A couple of words may also be said about the famous Sabarmati Ashram of Mahatma Gandhi, where he stayed from 1915 to 1933. This ashram is a witness to many important historical events, perhaps the most famous being that it was from here that Gandhiji started the Salt March or Dandi March, as it is popularly known in India – his protest against the salt tax of the British government. There was a British prison near the site of the ashram, and on another side a wasteland full of snakes. When Gandhiji first visited the place for assessing if it was suitable for carrying out his work, he remarked: "This is the right place for our activities to carry on the search for Truth and develop Fearlessness – for on one side, are the iron bolts of the foreigners, and on the other, thunderbolts of Mother Nature." The order was not to kill the snakes.
A few other notable examples include Sri Ramanashram in Tiruvannamalai and Sri Aurobindo Ashram in Pondicherry. While the former may be seen as a highly traditional ashram, with a schedule for various religious activities and spiritual practices for the residents and students of the ashram, the latter is a very different ashram in the sense that here we find no obligatory practices, no rituals, no compulsory meditations or systematic instructions in Yoga.


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