text:
Are You Empty Enough?
People may know the Word of God, but they don't know the God of the Word.
We are full of words to speak, but are we full of God?
The above caption says "I can still feel you"
This is because only when we are empty of everything we know, can we only begin to feel God.
We are so busy serving God, that we don't have time to know Him.
How empty are we, of our concerns, schedules, interests, and other people, that we have room in our day to spend alone with God?
How badly do we want to know God?
Or is He just convenient to us when we have a prayer need?
Or is He just "someone out there" to pray to?
Do we just shoot off a one minute prayer to him at the end of the day?
Do we know Him well enough to predict His response in a situation?
Do we really know what is on His heart today?
Do we really see Him in other people?
Do we weep when we have hurt Him?
We MUST spend time ALONE with Him, or everything is just vanity.
We must empty ourselves of all our daily garbage, and sit and listen and wait ……
He has something to tell us…Something personal and intimate.
Something we need to survive,
and something we need to belong to Him.
It is this emptiness, and aloneness, where we find what we really need to complete ourselves.
We find our Creator in our solitude.
These are some videos which share this message.
Acknowledgements to Dru on my website for providing them.
They are short, but have a big message.
Very inspiring to me.
Please take a few minutes to view the videos.
Thank you
223 Responses to "Are You Empty Enough?"
and jesus said unto them; your prayers are not answered because you ask amiss.
Yes the "Bride" is the one who "empties herself" to know her husband "intimately". As Jesus Christ "emptied" Himself for to "intimately" know her and cherish her.
Eph. 2: 21 ¶ Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
EPH5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
EPH 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
EPH 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
EPH 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
EPH 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the "washing of water by the word, "
EPH 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
EPH 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
EPH 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
EPH 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
EPH 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
If a man would find the Key of Knowledge, let him find himself. Thy sins are not thyself;They are not any part of thyself; they are diseases which thou has come to love. Cease to cling to them, and they will no longer cling to thee. Let them fall away, and thy self shall stand revealed. Thou shalt then know thyself as a Comprehensive Vision, Invincible Principle, Immortal Life, and Eternal good.
So extremely simple is Original Simplicity, that a man must let go his hold of everything before he can perceive it. The great arch is strong by virtue of the hollowness underneath, and a wise man becomes strong and invincible by "emptying himself."
"In Jeremiah 2:13 it is written, "For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."
How often have we sought for "water" from sources other than God?
How often have we "hewed out our own cisterns," only to find them to be broken, leaking, and ultimately unsatisfying?
How often do we find ourselves thirsting for that which will truly nourish our hearts?
It was during the last day of Sukkot that Yeshua cried out, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water'" (John 7:2, 37-38).
Yeshua spoke of the "living water" that He would give to those who ask Him.
This "water," He said, would truly satisfy the thirsty heart and provide everlasting nourishment for life (John 4:14).
He further explained that this water would spring forth within the heart as a result of trusting in Him (John 7:38).
The Apostle John calls this living water the Holy Spirit (John 7:39).
And today Yeshua says, 'To all who are thirsty I will give the springs of the water of life freely' (see Rev. 21:6 and Isa. 55:1)."
The above written by John Parsons, Hebrew for Christians.
Psalm 25
One thing for sure is that "Each believer has to dig their own well" then maintain it. So their water stays sweet and pure.
Jesus Christ had to "empty out Himself" for God to fill Him with the power to do His will. Jesus had every temptation that we have had yet without sin.
The Holy Spirit is the "Infilling of the believer" after they empty themselves.
The Living water is for those that "obey Him".
and how can I empty myself?
You need to put to death the fleshly striving to be accepted. It is only then that the Holy Spirit can lead you in sanctification. Submitting to the righteousness that comes by faith in Christ. EVERYTHING before that point of surrender is self-righteousness, Everything after is the Righteousness of "God with us".
Be prepared for discipline as a father disciplines a son. You will be walking on the narrow road between self righteousness and lawlessness, and you will be attacked and persecuted by both of these groups. The end result though is worth it, to be held in the arms of Jesus. It is then, that you "Know" his love for you…intimately.
Thanks for this. I wondered this question "how to empty myself" too. And I heard this in my head after reading your words "keep on being filled with the Spirit". 🙂 like the wine story too
and when they seen the lord comming, the five fullish virgins asked the five wise virgins to give them some of their oil so they could come out and meet the master. but the five wise virgins said; no, least we have not enough for our own selves. ( the day commeth that when a rightious person see's the sign's of the master;s return many shall ask of them; help us know your lord for we see what is happening but cannot receive that what thou hast for it has been taken away) food for thought.
And they did not possess the Holy Spirit. As they were seeking it when He came. And they lost out. The oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit
Lets Remember
Matt.12: 43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Meaning they are eating the false doctrines of the great falling away by their Hireling prophets.
This man represents millions of professing Christians today. That do not get filled with the Spirit. And have no power to resist Satan's attack without it.
Also they have no where to go for comfort, or rest, and peace. And that is also why today as many come in the front door, just as many going out the back door because they are not taught the truth about the Holy Spirit "infilling". They get discouraged and then end up becoming bad examples of true Christianity.
This is the "Great Deception" that is right before our eyes today. The Word has to be rightly divided to understand the process of the Plan of Salvation.
Producing the wheat plant is a progression.
beacon; jesus spoke many parables that were for generations to come, you know that. he did not state to those whom he spoke to that what he was saying to them was also repeat also ment for future generations. a simple example; jesus said; there are some here that shall not see death before the son of man returns, you aleady know what the deciples thought of that. but what they thought was incorrect. it did not mean they or some of them would live thousands of years in this fleshly body.
True. All born again believers lhave the Holy Spirit. But many of us don't walk closely enough to know how to use His power against the evil one. I'm a young believer and only recently learning the importance of putting on the full armour of God every day. Even more than once a day! The attacks against us are so heavy in these last days
how did my picture on this site change?
dmcal 52 reply From Beacon
You wrote the paragraph below.
"Again, the wicked generation that Jesus was speaking of was the Pharisees, the teachers of the law and any of that generation who needed to see more signs beyond what Jesus had already performed in order to believe. The key to that parable is the "Condition" of that generation before Jesus performed the miraculous signs and their condition after they had seen them, which was worse than the first."
I say to you:
All I need is but one Scripture to prove and nullify your thinking dear brother. You are a dispensational believer at your core. Knowing Jesus is the same in every generation. read scripture below
Heb. 13: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
3 Steps to Salvation – Three is perfection. 3 witnesses of true salvation
1st. step = "Saved by Grace" – Jesus chose His disciples and told them they had their "names in the book" before the foundation of the World ever begin.
Jesus said — Luke 10: 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the ""spirits are subject unto you""; but rather rejoice, because your "names" are written in heaven.
2nd. Step ="Sanctification" is by the word
St. John 15: 3 Now ye are "clean" through the word which I have spoken unto you. — Clean or Sanctified is the meaning 2nd. Step in complete salvation
3rd Step = Receiving the "Holy Spirit"
Acts 2:38. Then Peter said unto them, "Repent", and be "baptized" every one of you in the "name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins", and ""ye shall" receive the "gift of the Holy Ghost"".
Notice Judas was not their on day of Pentecost. His name was blotted out. But Mary was there and had to receive the Holy Spirit the same as the disciples did. She had to receive the Holy Ghost the same as anyone else.
ACTS 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
ACTS 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
1st. – You see dear brother – Gods Grace is for everyone that can recognize they need it. Faith believes in Gods Grace in any generation.
2nd. – Sanctification – Grace moves on to "separation" from the world. Faith believes you have to be sanctified = set apart – from your habits of sin.
3rd. – Receiving the Holy Spirit – The two above bring you to the "Power of God" that opens your mind to understand the Mysteries of the Word = Its your Guide. Why because Jesus Christ is NOW living IN YOU. Not just hanging out with Him. Walking with HIM. Talking with Him etc. But you have a "Intimate" marriage. Christ in you and you in Christ makes you the Bride of Jesus Christ. Bone of his Bone, flesh of his flesh.
Bro. dmcal 52 – You just cannot separate Jesus day from our day. Its been the same way even through the O.T . Moses was rejected as a whole. They would have killed him if God had not stepped in. Even though Israel seen the signs. It meant nothing to that forward generation. Except a handful.
All mankind seek signs – Look at us on this forum. Always looking for signs. And yet the sign has already been given. Jesus said about Elijah = John – he has already come and ye missed it. He was their sign. Same today.
Having a real New Birth is a sign to the world around us that we are different. And the world hate's us more and more each day. Darkness is all through the world. Christians are being persecuted everywhere on the planet. And we still looking for signs. WHY- its just a repeat of the end of the age to mankind. I have seen the Miracles with my own eyes in my time. Have you not dear brother of mine.
Matthew 13 explains this in every detail. How satan follows Jesus as He is sowing seed. Remember 3 out of 4 were overtaken by satan's seed. How can anyone say that's just for the generation in Jesus day and really believe that.
Hope you can see it my friend. Its good to talk to you again.
spot on beacon. note; somehow my regular picture has been replaced with this blue whatever. i am not sure how to change it back but will try.
Bro. John – there are some here that shall not see death
I have not forgot you. But I have been real busy the last couple of days. And will get back to you. God bless you – beacon
Bro. dmcal – You said – Therefore, to apply that parable to believers of today, would be in error-
I believe that is not a parable but an absolute truth of the Christian church in our day. And just about every day and its message.
Just read Rev. chapter's 2 and 3 and you will see it all in their. From the 1st Century to the Now . The True vine sees it. But the False vine do not.
To John or all- Mark 9:1
"1. That the destruction of Jerusalem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world, and earth. Deut. 32:15-22
Mark 9:1 shall not taste of death.
"This generation shall not pass, Hence it appears plain enough, that the foregoing verses are not to be understood of the last judgment but, as we said, of the destruction of Jerusalem. There were some among the disciples (particularly John), who lived to see these things come to pass. With Matt. 16:28, compare John 21:.22. And there were some Rabbins alive at the time when Christ spoke these things, that lived till the city was destroyed, viz. Rabban Simeon, who perished with the city, R. Jochanan Ben Zaccai, who outlived it, R. Zadoch, R. Ishmael, and others." (vol 2., p. 320).;
"Then this coming of God's dominion cannot refer to our Lord's resurrection, nor to the gift of the Holy Spirit which were to be realized within the year…. Nor can it refer to our Lord's coming in judgment which is yet even now in abeyance.. Nor can the powerful spread of the gospel be meant, for this already came about within comparatively few years.. We shall have to think of the destruction of Jerusalem.. In it God revealed his kingly dominion in his judgment, a precursor of his judgment of the last day.
"Verse 28 adds, with His solemn 'verily,' a confirmation of this announcement of His coming to judge. The question of what event is referred to may best be answered by noting that it must be one sufficiently far off from the moment of speaking to allow of the death of the greater number of His hearers, and sufficiently near to allow of the survival of some; that it must also "be an event," after which these survivors would go the common road into the grave; that it is apparently distinguished from "His coming 'in the glory of the Father,' and yet is of such a nature as to afford convincing proof of the establishment of "His kingdom on earth", and to be, in some sort, a sign of that final act of judgment." All these requirements (and they are all the fair inferences from the words) meet only in the destruction of Jerusalem, and of the national life of the chosen people. That was a crash of which we faintly realise the tremendous significance. It swept away the last remnant of the hope that Israel was to be the kingdom of the Messiah; and from out of the dust and chaos of that fall the Christian Church emerged, manifestly destined for world-wide extension. It was a 'great and terrible day of the Lord,' and, as such, was a precursor and a prophecy of the day of the Lord, when He 'shall come in the glory of the Father,' and 'render unto every man according to his deeds.'" (Exposition of Holy Scriptures, Matt 16:28)
Matthew 24 also very plainly says that Jesus meant what he said when speaking to the disciples of some standing here would not taste of death. Till they saw the "End of the World" which was the age ending for Israel. And the "Kingdom of God" was established on earth by the Jew & Gentile church.
In Matt. 24: 1-3 started about the "Temple being destroyed" and then the disciples ask him about the "end of the world" as well. Jesus plainly said to them "YE" and "YOU" or some would see it. Maybe not all of them. Some were martyred before.
Well – Marianne – at least we believe the same in some area's. As the post says and I have always maintained that Heb. 13:8 gives us the power to see and read yesterdays unbelief, and today's unbelief. Then we know what the future holds for our own day.
As far as the Stars from heaven falling. That was Abraham's seed falling "into complete darkness" by rejecting their Messiah. Did not it get Dark while Jesus was dying on the Cross. It even convinced a Roman soldier to say this man was the Son of God – Yet the Pharisee's were ridiculing Him and telling Him to come down from the Cross then we will believe you. They could not even have mercy upon a man while dying on a cross. They were the fallen stars. Bound in chains of darkness and could not get out of their mindset. They were living in hell on earth and did not know it. Christ came to open their Seals of bondage but they would not have it. They died in their own 4th. Seal.
The Sun is Mal. 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the "Sun of righteousness will arise" with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
On the Cross Jesus was still the "Sun of righteousness". He had to "arise" because He had fallen into Mankind's hopelessness of darkness. Now guess what the "rapture is now" the "rising of the Sun of God in you". By the Holy Spirit.
We could speak much on the Temple being destroyed. But for now I will just say it was the "end of the World" for Israel and the O.T school master the same as Rev. 10:6 says "their time" had run out. They had 2,058 years to get it together and their end was worse than all. Yet the Bride left Jerusalem as Jesus told them to do. And they were saved. And I could say 'raptured" out by the guiding of the "holy spirit" that caught the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Jesus the Word told them when you see the Armies coming get out and be safe.
"Christ fulfilled the school master" at the rising of the "Sun" on Resurrection day. That was the Great but "Terrible day" for Israel. 1 million and 100 thousand Jews died in that battle. Just in Jerusalem and Temple mount. The blood ran up to the horses bridle's. The Romans had to invent shoes with spikes into the souls of their shoes to even walk because of all the blood around the Temple mount and on the ground and in the Temple. The Moon is just a reflector of the Sun. It makes perfect sense to me that if the Sun was darkened while He was on the cross. Then the "moon" would not get her light either. Because without the Sun the moon will not shine. That happened as the Bible said it happened. Like for 3 hours or more while Jesus was on the Cross.
Israel's world had fallen into pieces and annihilated. A star at a time, by darkness over the whole nation. Compare their's with America today. The signs have already been out for years and years. Our real Prophets have come and gone. We are so educated today. That Revelation of the word is nullified by it.
Bro. John – why do you believe that a stone Temple has to be rebuilt. Rev. 11 show's the New Temple was rebuilt.
Bro. Dmcal – you said -By the way, Rev.2 & 3 are letters to the original seven churches of that time and also represent the entire church period. The letters to the churches have nothing to do with the parable that Jesus spoke against the Pharisees, the teachers of the law and the generation of that time. As I said, "the last state of the man is worse than the first" represents the state of those Pharisees, the teachers of the law and that generation who saw the miracles yet still needed to see more miracles in order to believe.
Dear Brother. To read and understand the 7 ages you have to understand Satan's bride is among them. As in all generations and church's.
What are the Nicolatian, what is Balaam doctrine, What it the Jezebel. What's it mean that :Satan got a Seat of authority in the Pergomas age". The first four church ages show the dark ages took over the church. The false vine never gets its "Seals" opened up. And death, hell, and the grave is all that is left for them. The 4th. Seal.
Sardis means escaped one. And that is talking about Luthers day. Coming out of the Jezebels denominated system as a Protester. Most for some reason do not grasp that the N.T took the same flight that Israel did. Where they not Captive in 4 different Nations before Christ come. They got indoctrinated into paganism and education of those Nations. And instead of Prophets teaching them as before. They come out with Rabbi's, Scribes, Scholars, intelligence head honchos to say to rule them and sway them to error. Anytime Natural brute beast are in power. You are bound for hell. Just like America now.
Its the same to day with the N.T church. Heb. 13:8 fulfilled the same as in Jesus 1st. and 2nd coming. The 3 mentioned above – Balaam doctrine, Nicolatian, turned into Jezebel-ism. And its still with us in the N.T. Rev. 17- and 18 tell us show.
That is exactly the same thing the 1st century had to deal with. The whole book of Revelation is about the fall of Jerusalem and Christ coming to resurrect the N.T Jew and Gentile church. And it carries right over into our day as well. In every age Christ always comes first in Grace then later in Judgment. Look at history and see if you can find those points of change.
The false vine is always going to persecute the true vine. They cannot help it. If you had lived in every 7 church age. You would have to resist the Pharisee's as well. They just called something else. They love cold formal worship. They love the councils like the Sanhedrin. And they blaspheme every truth or twist it out of its original meaning.
Pharisee means actor. Among other things. Imitators of the truth.
I agree with you. But I cannot understand your reasoning of why you do not see this in the church world today. We still got Pharisee's and Scribes and Councils and systems that will not ever learn the truth.
They are sons of perdition. Perdition = destroyed , annihilated, perished. In the 4th. Seal. of Death , hell and the grave.
A man is way better off to have never known Christ as to fake his salvation to the point it slays others away from Christ. A millstone will be hung around his neck and thrown into the bottom of the sea.
Understanding your day and its Message should mean everything to you. Heart, Soul, and Body, and Mind. Jesus said EAT of me — That's the Word and also the present Wedding feast. That makes us Bride material. Into an intimacy of relationship and we know what our husband letters mean and understand them. We know him intimately. We know His mind – We know His character, virtue, strength , His heart, Soul, He has shared with us. The foolish virgins got started but never did understand the Message for their hour. All the way back into the O.T to Now.
Dear John -take your time with comparing these it will be worth it to you.
The comparison chart below establishes this point vividly. No only are the principle features of "Olivet" in Paul's account, but even the order is substantially the same.
"Yet the remarkable feature, which must surely impress all but those who simply will not see, is the singular correspondence between the phraseology here (Matt. 24:30-31), and … I Thessalonians 4:15-18 . . . Then what kind of Bible interpretation is it which can take exactly the same phrases and symbols in I Thessalonians 4:15-16 and say that there they teach a secret coming of a rapture!. . . Nothing can disguise to an honest eye the parallel between Matthew 24:30-31 and I Thessalonians 4:15-18." 4.
Event I Thess. 4-5 Matt. 24-25
1. Christ Himself returns 4:16 24:30
2. from heaven 4:16 24:30
3. with a shout 4:16 24:30 (in power)
4. Accompanied by angels 4:16 24:31
5. With trumpet of God 4:16 24:31
6. Believers gathered 4:17 24:31, 40-41
7. In clouds 4:17 24:30
8. Time Unknown 5:1-2 24:36
9. Will come as a thief 5:2,4 24:43
10. Unbelievers unaware of
impending judgment 5:3 24:37-39
11. Judgment comes as
travail upon expectant
mother 5:3 24:8 (RV)
12. Believers not decided 5:4-5 24:4 ff.
13. Believers to watch 5:6 24:42
14. Warning against
drunkenness 5:73 24:49
Well brother "dmcal" you have the right to believe what you want to.
I guess I could answer you back line for line but would it do you any good or worth my time. I doubt it. Its ok if you want to believe the way you do.
Bro. John –
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which ""sleep"" in Jesus will God bring with him.
I Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are ""asleep"".
The sleep is death – as in Lazarus — they said he sleepeth – Jesus said Lazarus was dead. The New testament does not have soul sleeping.
1. Of course when you die that beings your last rapture. You will see the dead in Christ alive with Christ. We are Written Epistles in our life. When you die you are going to your place of judgment = good or bad.
2. If you are a Christian then you will see the other Christians that were on the other side already with Christ. You just joined them. When you die your dead clay flesh body goes back to dust. Read the scriptures below.
3. You New Creation Spirit man and Spirit body rise to meet those that have already risen and are with Christ.
4. The Holy Ghost man that is IN YOU NOW will be set free from the Terrestrial natural man and body.
1 Cor. 15:40 † There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
I COR 15:41- There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I COR 15:42- So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
I COR 15:43- It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
I COR 15:44- It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
I COR 15:45- And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
PS. Everyone on this planet is in a Celestial or a Terrestrial Body. Only one can rule you . One of them eventually has to die out completely. Yes your soul will be annihilated and have its "part time" in the lake of fire. Their is no eternal life but in Jesus Christ. The others will perish, be destroyed etc. etc.
Its your spirit and soul that controls the flesh- the soul is the nature and character of which spirit has taken you over. That is where the Mark comes in to play. You are either marked with Gods character or satan's character. When you die you are already judged. By your written epistle of your character.
Beacon – I'm for you Bro. John not against you.
beacon; after christ arose from the dead it states that many of the saints that slept were seen walking the streets. jesus said that god is not the god of the dead but of the living. since the time of the resurection of the saints that slept and then were seen walking the streets after jesus arose, from that time forward if you were a real christian you went to gods rest. gods rest is in heaven./ you also cannot just ignore it when it states that those who slept in christ are comming back with him. they are taken from gods rest and return with the lord and we who are still alive and remain are caught up to meet the lord in the air. this is what it says.
1. To dmcal – I don't think I heard this scripture in your posts above. ""To be absent in the Body is to be present with the Lord."" In New Testament.
2. The 2. OT "SAINTS " were sleeping in Heavenly places = Paradise. Waiting for the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ "Eternal Blood" to be shed for them.
3. O.T sinners were dead and went back to dust and clay.
Eze. 18:4 so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
4. That's why you seen Moses and Elijah with Christ on the mount of transfiguration. Show his 3 witnesses the Resurrection of all saints are coming after His own Resurrection had taken place. Each in their own order. O.T first.
5, So After the "Resurrection of Christ" the "Celestial Soul man" which represents the "Whole man" Spirit , soul, and Body goes immediately to Heaven – The old flesh and blood system of mankind will rot away back to clay and dust just as the Bible says.
A. You have 2 births —1st. Natural by sex desire just goes back to clay and dust. You will die and perish if you only have a sex desire Natural birth.
B. But the 2nd. The New Creation into you by Christ. Gives you Eternal life.
C. But the ""New Creation of the "blood of God" applied. Death turns into Resurrection and Eternal Life. – You do not go to the 2nd death if you have a New Birth = Jesus living in you. The only Form of Eternal life.
1 SAM. 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be SILENT in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
Silent means –struck dumb–Destroyed–die
Job. 7: 9 As the cloud is consumed and ""vanisheth away"": so he that ""goeth down to the grave ""shall come up no more"". Job is talking of the wicked man – they get no resurrection. The been judged by their life.
Psalms 6: 9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth ""down to the grave shall come up no more.""
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, ""shall be stubble:"" and the day that cometh shall ""burn them up"", saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither ""root nor branch.""
Stubble means completely gone nothing left – You came by a earth body of sexual desire and you go back to the earth.
Jesus and His Bride are intimately in relationship. Becoming ONE UNIT. By the Spirit .
Beacon – You post is so long Dmcal – I will have to do it in little pieces. Makes it more simple to understand.
Beacon – Im for you not against you.
Bro. John:you said – jesus said that god is not the god of the dead but of the living.
A. I amen that above – absolutely right – God does not give sinner's eternal life. They die the 2nd. death. They rejected HIM and placed "satan" over them as their god.
1. Mankind create's his own destiny by choice. Only two choices. The Image of God our Father = The Mark of Jesus Christ – or – god of this world = the Mark of the Beast.
2. As you well know – Beast do not rise to eternal life. A dog cannot enter into heaven. So he is dead, dead, dead. And is never coming back up. He turns to stubble. Mal. 4:1
you said – since the time of the resurrection of the saints that slept and then were seen walking the streets after jesus arose,
1. Yes and They were OT saints not sinners.
You said – you also cannot just ignore it when it states that those who slept in christ are coming back with him.
1. Yes that is true – Moses had Christ in Him. The bible says so. Enoch, Elijah, and all that had Christ= Holy Spirit in them came back in the Representation of Moses and Elijah on the mount of Transfiguration.
2. Moses symbolized the O.T church of Israel. Elijah symbolized the Live Saints from the N.T church in New Testament Power for all who would enter the "Kingdom of God" which is our Canaan land promise in the N.T.
you said – They are taken from gods rest and return with the lord and we who are still alive and remain are caught up to meet the lord in the air. this is what it says.
0. Yes and on the Mount of Transformation. What did we see. Moses and Elijah merging together AND both of them together with CHRIST. The so called dead saints of the O.T were sleeping in Paradise=heavenly places waiting for Jesus day.
1. Why don't people see this in Rev. 11 – Thier were only 2 doors made out of Olive wood and laid over with Gold that believers could walk through to get to the Holiest of Holies. The two doors are the two witness of Moses and Elijah. The Whole of Gods Saints in O.T and N.T now. Jew and Gentile.
They both died but came back in resurrection . By this we know that for sure that Moses and Elijah even in their day raptured into the "Kingdom" of God already at their death of the old man. Paul said in Heb. 11 that "all died" and I believe what he says and taught. Christ IN THEM the Holy Spirit under their substitute temporal covenant of Moses. Jesus Christ anointing was in them. Yes you could have a "Born again" experience even in the O.T. Under Moses Covenant of law. But as a whole it only effected Israel when it was coming into their Canaan land. That was their "Kingdom of God" and Rest and Peace that came with the Prophets and David and Solomon and Samuel etc. etc.
2. We all have to meet Jesus in the "AIR" = the Holy Spirit. That means "raised up into new life". All of Adams race had to be "raised up again" into the air of the New Creation. By the Same Holy Spirit we have today. Look up Holy Spirit in the O.T and find out for yourself.
Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the "AIR", the SPIRIT that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
There are about 3 different words used for AIR in the N.T – coming soon
1 Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The Air in Eph. 2:2
In the Exodus of Moses. The cloud was with them and guided them. That cloud was Christ the Holy Spirit. And other gone on saints dressed in white with him. Remember Elijah seeing the heavenly host of heaven with God.
Cloud 3507 from 3509; — cloud (26)
1) a cloud; used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
2. Now Israel had a "rapture out of Egypt" to their Promised land. Hello anybody home out their. But it was a real fight to the Death to take it over. Walled cities, giants, skilled warrior's that hated them.
The Reality of the 'rapture' is the same to day. We must depend on the Lord to deliver us and make a way of escape out of this evil world system that has us bound as slaves. We will have to come out the same way Israel did. Or God did it wrong for them. The Cloud was with them, The Pillar of Fire was their. The Lord Even came down to them to be seen. They had a Great Prophet that challenged even Pharaoh and he could not withstand the Power of Moses.
It will have to be the same way today. Heb. 13:8 – We have already had the Prophets with Thus saith the Lord, We have been baptized in the Holy Spirit with Power and Faith and Love for are real homeland. And we are going to have to use all our weapons and whole desire to win the battle and to rise to the occasion. Jesus said himself we have to take it by force.
Special Note – the Protestants and Catholic church's our all gathering around their great prophet the Pope. But he will not deliver them. NO sir
Christians are getting to be the Most favorite to pick on and kill these days. Oh Lord be with us in your might. Who shall be able to stand.
Well dmcal – you just do not believe the Bible like I do. Hey I see all kinds of things you say that I could respond to – But I do not want to really. Because me and you have hacked it around for a long time. And your post are way to long. I'm not going to even try to explain your 5 posts real long posts. Mine are big enough but you wrote a book. I have not got the time to take and just here you say. Im crazy. I've said before its alright if you think me wrong or crazy or a reprobate. You can think that. You have the right as an American. But when Judgment comes. The Epistle of you life will meet the Judge himself someday. You have a lot of zeal. And so do I. We just believe different.
The wide gate is easy to enter with the millions of like faith with them. Its great to have a lot of friends on your side and a lot of support. No problem till you start seeing darkness in the horizon. Then its to late to turn back and the gate will be shut. You ought to really take a study on some of the things I say. I did not invent them. Its in the Word.
Question – did Enoch and Elijah die. Its in the Word – read it brother its not my interpretation.
Heb. 11:5 By faith ""Enoch"" was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb. 11: 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
!!!!This is speaking of Elijah
Heb. 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
!!!! This verse is for all the Prophets and Believers that had to endure mockings and scourgings
Heb. 11: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Here is the BOTTOM LINE OF THE WHOLE CHAPTER
Heb. 11:13 These ""ALL DIED IN THE FAITH"" , "not having received the promises," but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Here is ""ONE MORE"""- 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I will stay with Apostle Paul's Revelation not the multitude of churchs of today.
Now what literal believers always do when you get trapped in the literal. You and your friends will get REAL SPIRITUAL now. And have to make something up.
That is the way it always works out with literal believers.
Did you guys even bother to read this post, or watch the videos above? I ask, because you are doing exactly what the post says is detrimental to our Christian walk. You have been doing this now for years, quoting the bible, and arguing doctrine, never coming to the oneness of the Spirit. Do you think Jesus wants this in these end times? Us arguing about the rapture, or the second coming? Or does he want us to get to know him on an intimate level, as wife knows her husband…Yes, that intimately. Do You know what is on Jesus heart right now? Do you know his agony and sorrow? What it is that makes him Joyful? Are you doing something about it in your own life? Perhaps this will stir you to find and get to know the God of the word.
"With all this stuff to feed on, 95% of us are spiritual cripples, spiritual infants…"
I will try this question again. Like I said in this post is exactly how it came out. No body has answered it yet. You went off on a tandem – Its a pretty simple question.
Question – did Enoch and Elijah die. Its in the Word – read it friends its not my interpretation.
Heb. 11:5 By faith ""Enoch"" was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb. 11: 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
!!!!This is speaking of Elijah
Heb. 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
!!!! This verse is for all the Prophets and Believers that had to endure mockings and scourgings
Heb. 11: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Here is the BOTTOM LINE OF THE WHOLE CHAPTER
Heb. 11:13 These ""ALL DIED IN THE FAITH"" , "not having received the promises," but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Here is ""ONE MORE"""- 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I will stay with Apostle Paul's Revelation not the multitude of churchs of today.
Now what literal believers always do when they get trapped in the literal. You and your friends will get REAL SPIRITUAL now. And have to make something up. That is the way it always works out with literal believers.
Seems that is the way it went on this one as well. You all fulfilled my quote.
Jesus talked and the people got angry all the time. They were taking council on how they could Kill Him. Today we just do it with words to kill a man's influence. Is the same thing. Millions of Christians died for the FAITH – their belief. Their Revelation of the Mystery of Christ being revealed.
this is TY is it not?
At any rate, Beacon,
I am not a literalist, nor am I a spiritualist. I see validity in both sides of this debate. On yours, is the fact that there remains much "Mystery" in the events to come. Many literalists are so locked in their way of thinking that they are not open to the verbal inspiration of the Holy Spirit in this day and age. The Word of God is a Living Word. It reveals more and more each day to us, as we read it reflect on it and study it. I also, much like a spiritualist do not trust in man's understanding and interpretation. (Prov. 3:5-6). That being said, the things that are not revealed by the Spirit of Truth, I defer back to my literalist foundation and upbringing. I think both of these are needed in order to not deviate from The Truth. There are places in the bible that say not to deviate from the traditions you were brought up in, and others that say not to trust in the traditions of men. (Col. 2:8, 2 thess. 2:15)
Regarding rebirth, there is a time in our life when we put to death our flesh, and Jesus comes to be with us with the infilling of his Spirit. Is this a "second coming"? Yes. It as this point in our lives that we are transformed into a "new creation in Christ". I No longer Live, it is Christ who lives in me. Many who oppose this teaching have never reached that point in their walk with the Lord. My flesh, however, still remains an earthen vessel, and is deteriorating as we speak. We will at some future time receive an immortal body, provided we have reached this point of "Putting to death the perishable" Spiritually within us. This is what most literalists believe is the rapture, or our translation. The Problem with most literalists, is that they do not do what is needed to reach the point of putting to death the flesh, and being filled with the Holy Spirit, and see the rapture as an escape from the responsibility of Repentance. In other words they wish to remain children in doctrine, not learning to be doers of the law out of a sanctified heart. Thus they wish to skip the first step, of "this perishable body put[ting] on the Imperishable (the filling of the Spirit) and wish then to claim the promise of "this mortal body Put[ting] on immortality." See parenthesis below.
50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable (Becoming a new creation in Christ), and this mortal body must put on immortality (our translation/rapture). 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
"Death is swallowed up in victory."
"O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the VICTORY through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
Thus, as newborn believers, we have yet to be guaranteed immortality of Body, only of Spirit/soul. But when we put to death the flesh, here in our time on earth, we then are reborn of the Holy Spirit, which then allows us to receive our immortal bodies. That is, in a nutshell, what it means to be like Christ. because he had to put to death his own flesh, that he might receive his eternal body.
I know every literalist will be up in arms now. "Our works have nothing to do with our salvation".. They will say. But none of this is a work, it the process by which we make Jesus our Lord, Through surrender and sanctification. It is my belief that most of the people left behind, will be those who believe in a rapture, but have not put to death their own flesh. The only way then for them to be worthy of receiving the immortal body is to put the flesh to death at the hands of the Antichrist, who will carry that out willingly.
These are hard words for the literalist. I had endless debates on this with people on this site, But I know through the revelation of the Holy Spirit that this is true. The response of all literalists is to attack my teaching because it does not fit their interpretation. The intended goal of this is to get all who call themselves Christians on their knees in repentance as time is quickly running out.
Amen Dru – Im with you on most everything you say. We are really close in seeing the same way. What a blessing.
I am hesitant to post this due to our past history, however, have you ever stopped and taken into consideration, that what transpires here within this site, that what you are witnessing here, is only a small aspect, or percentage of any given persons walk with Yeshua?
By that what I am trying to convey is that, you really have no idea as to what people may do and how they sacrifice of themselves and demonstrate agape love to others when they are not participating here.
However within your posts, you appear to continue to express that it is only "You" that really understands that a true and intimate relationship is what is the required necessity. Please understand Dru, (and I believe that I can speak for others here on this site as well), many also understand this and seek that true and intimate relationship as well.
Please don't judge people and what their personal relationship may consist of with Yeshua, based solely upon what you see demonstrated here.
There is so much more that you are simply not privy to.
Be Blessed in Yeshua.
The mouth is a reflection of the heart. Man can do all sorts of good works on the outside and make themselves look good to the eyes. That does not mean that they are sanctified, and the law written on their heart.
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. (Jas. 3:8)
Now I know we have written words here, but they come from the heart. Some of us, it has been given to interpret tongues. Instead of dismissing my words like you always do, then perhaps you should be a berrean about it and see if what I am saying is true. More Later
Dru you just don't appear to "get it", nor did you understand what I happened to say.
I have not "dismissed" what you have said, (though they are NOT YOUR words), what you say has been said and written down upon Holy scrolls some 2000 plus years ago and are Gods Inspired Words. If one "Seeks God" they will understand THOSE Words.
All that you are doing is reiterating those Words, like they have been reiterated and expressed countless times over the years by others, as I also reiterated them here when I went through my experience 2 years ago.
But neither I nor any of the past countless others "elevated themselves" and "condemned" others while expressing the requirement and necessity of Intimate Relationship with Him like you do.
But you always "judge" others based solely upon what they write here, and disregard "what and how" they may walk "IN" Yeshua.
So…… "What do you do, when you are not here?"
That is a rhetorical question, because I don't really care, but God knows what you do, and He is the one that will judge a mans heart.
But ask yourself, "Do you really walk the walk that you preach yourself?"
"The Words that you reiterate are true, but are you a Berean yourself and do you demonstrate that "agape" towards others by what you write here?"
God the Father and Son is the Judge of souls, period!
Last Comment.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua.
Sorry, had to run out for a few minutes.
Ok, where were we.
First of all, I am not here to argue…believe it or not. I am here to deliver a message. You may say I am not a messenger of God, that is fine. Nonetheless I am able to deliver it, am I not? My message is one that has been spoken before, you are right on that. I walk in those footsteps and am proclaiming the same message. I am not looking for followers, never have been. I am not looking for donations…never have asked. My message is a message of repentance to God. My Only goal is to get everyone on their knees at the cross. You cannot criticize what I write, so you have to find a way to criticize how I write. Why? This message, has always been a difficult message to deliver. I left some videos here of preachers delivering that same message with their face covered in tears. Did they speak "politely"? or did they deliver that hard message to bear with shouts and "condemning words". You see, that is the nature of this message. throughout the generations it has come at a high price. Many of these messengers have been burned at the stake, flogged, imprisoned, hung, tortured etc. So to have me executed in the court of public opinion means nothing to me.
Now you can ignore my message: that is up to you, or you can reflect upon that message and receive it with repentance. This has never been about me, or my ego, It has always been about you, and your relationship with Jesus. (That is all the "you's' who may read this.) It has been, as I have said many times, not about me being right (My ego), but about US getting it right (attitude of the church). Whether you can believe it or not, I have no alternate agenda. I have no website to promote, and no church to direct you to, Nor do I do this for my own pride and boasting. I do it, because I see the sacrifice and Love of Jesus on the cross for his church, and then I see his church taking advantage of that love, and living lawlessly or for self promotion and pride. It brings me to tears every time I think about it.
As to the people here, The ones who feel condemnation by this message and disdain for it are probably the ones that need to hear it the most. It is not my words that condemn you, it is your own heart. This is called conviction of the heart. Perhaps, instead of killing the messenger, you should look at why you have disdain for this message? this message will bring joy to those who heed it, but those who ignore it will be burned by its fire.
I know some here do not even want to interact with me. Instead they would rather claim God's promise, without heeding this message. They say they want revival, but without this understanding, no revival will occur. This is the message that unifies the church and brings that revival on a grand scale. Perhaps They would rather see the church powerless, and wimper into the end times weak and ineffective? I will stand up to this wherever I go.
I will also stand up to anyone who says we can earn this power without falling on our faces at the cross. That we can justify ourselves through our actions. We can do none of this without the blood of Jesus and total surrender to his will.
Ask yourself, Buck, why is it so hard for you to receive this message? You Know it is straight from the word of God. If this is the same message you preached 2 years ago, why is it that you do not receive it with tears of Joy that the Lord has sent another to deliver that message? Instead you treat me as a charlatan. Is this not a judgment on your part? You accuse me of being divisive…another judgment? You say I am trying to elevate myself…another judgment? That is because you did not deliver this same message. Though you may have had a fire in you at the time, and though you preached the gospel, it was never the one that leads to repentance. In fact, as I recall, you opposed repentance when I suggested it to you. Then, and NOW. Why?
Jesus is the Lord (1 Cor. 12:3)
Dru I said that I wouldn't respond anymore to you, however I will just say this one more time.
You say above, "Ask yourself, Buck, why is it so hard for you to receive this message?"
Well dru, You have "no idea" as to "if" I have "received" this message or not, so,…. "How can you can even ask a question like that"?
Really dude? Who do you think that you are?
It is not about my relationship with you that I hold important within my heart, but it is the Relationship with Yeshua my Savior that is my priority and first Love.
If you had comprehended what I had written above, you would have understood that it is not the "message" that is hard to receive or accept, (For I do accept it full heartedly, and my Father knows my heart for Him), but rather what is difficult to receive is "the messenger" and how in such a hypocritical fashion that message is delivered.
Frankly dru, you are the most self-righteous individual that I've ever had the misfortune of engaging with here.
(Which has been the reason behind your numerous banning's from this site.)
Below is my final comment to you….
"Physician heal thyself, and practice what you preach."
Hey – Im still waiting on this simple answer from someone. I will try this question again. Like I said in this post is exactly how it came out. No body has answered it yet. You went off on a tandem – Its a pretty simple question.
Question – did Enoch and Elijah die. Its in the Word – read it friends its not my interpretation.
Heb. 11:5 By faith ""Enoch"" was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb. 11: 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
!!!!This is speaking of Elijah
Heb. 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
!!!! This verse is for all the Prophets and Believers that had to endure mockings and scourgings
Heb. 11: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Here is the BOTTOM LINE OF THE WHOLE CHAPTER
Heb. 11:13 These ""ALL DIED IN THE FAITH"" , "not having received the promises," but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Here is ""ONE MORE"""- 1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I will stay with Apostle Paul's Revelation not the multitude of churchs of today.
Now what literal believers always do when they get trapped in the literal. You and your friends will get REAL SPIRITUAL now. And have to make something up. That is the way it always works out with literal believers.
Seems that is the way it went on this one as well. You all fulfilled my quote.
I guess that question was prophetic.
thanks dru/dave for your post back to me – Just having 1 person agree is alot of help at times like these.
But no one yet has answered my simple question. Did Enoch and Elijah die.
I got the scriptures above that says they did. hello
assuming the Spirit of Elijah was in John the Baptist, then yes he did face death. Enoch I am less sure of. Though I do see your point in verse "these all died in faith". There is also some thinking that Stephen, the first Martyr had the Spirit of Enoch…was filled. Thus at the time of Hebrews being written, he had died "In faith" as well??? I cannot say with certainty though.
Hi Beacon,
If I may I'll address your question."Did Enoch and Elijah die"?
The first thing that I would like for you to consider is that within the generations of Adam, (Genesis 5:1 through verse 32) that the Hebrew "מוּת" or "muwth" is utilized a total of of 8 times.
"Muwth" is primarily defined as meaning, "to die, or kill".
This is why it has been translated into the English "and he died" within those 8 instances of Genesis 5:5, 5:8, 5:11, 5:14, 5:17, 5:20, 5:27 and 5:31.
The exception to this "and he died" in respects to the Patriarchs, would be regarding Enoch.
This would suggest and indicate that something different than simply dying took place regarding Enoch.
In Genesis 5:24., it reads;
"And Enoch "walked" with God: and he was not; for God "took" him."
The translated English "walked" above is derived from the Hebrew "הָלַךְ", or "halak" and it is primarily defined as meaning to "to go, walk, and come".
Though within it's definitions it also has the meaning "to die", the very fact that a different word was utilized within 5:24. regarding Enoch, more than suggests that "he didn't die" exactly as the others had.
The English "took" within verse 5:24. is derived from the Hebrew "לָקַח" or "laqach" and it is primarily defined as "to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, and take away"
Laqach would be the equivalent of the Greek "ἁρπάζω" or "harpazō".
In Hebrews 11:5., it states;
"By faith Enoch was "translated" that HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
The English word "translated" above is derived from the Greek "μετατίθημι" or "metatithēmi", and it is defined as "to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) (a) to transfer. (b) to change. (c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred. to go or pass over"
And this "metatithēmi"may more clearly define what occurred.
Clearly Hebrews 11:15. states that Enoch "did not die", however Hebrews 11:13., states that they did?
"THESE ALL DIED IN FAITH, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
So perhaps with Enoch he did not "die a regular death" but was "changed and transformed" where (two things, one of which is put in place of the other) prior to being taken.
Regarding Elijah,
In 2 Kings 2:1. it says;
"And it came to pass, when the LORD "would take up" Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal."
The English "would take up" is from the Hebrew "עָלָה" or "'alah" which means, "to go up, and ascend"
In 2 Kings 2:3., we have the Hebrew "laqach" again with the translated English in quotations below.
"And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will "take away" thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace."
In 2 Kings 2:11. it says;
"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and "parted" them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
The English "parted" above is derived from the Hebrew "פָּרַד" or "parad" and is simply defined as "to separate, or divide".
So I think that there is the possibility that God had "changed both Enoch and Elijah" prior to being "translated", that in one way they both did "die of the flesh", but were changed and "born of Spirit".
I think that bot of them were an Old Covenant foreshadowing of Yeshua, and as well, a foreshadowing of the church.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua.
Gregg Buckley – I enjoyed your post very much. I absolutely agree with you. l have studied these things in depth at one time or another in my life. Translated can also just mean as Phillip was translated to another place. I could say God took him to another place. But never left the earth. Same as in Noah's day. They were translated from one place to another. From one age to another Age even in Noah's case. You might want to check out St. Jn. 10:10-12 The devil even has a rapture – harpazō in Ver. 12 the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep by an en gathering of evil.
I do appreciate the simplicity that was in your post as well. It was direct and to the point.
And also beware of people that have 2 and 3 different names on this post but are the same person. They do try and trick you like the Pharisee's tried to trick Jesus and get him to stumble. Just want you to know that. Maybe you have already caught on to it.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua as well.
Hi Beacon,
I am glad that you enjoyed my post and that it may have provided some clarity regarding what happened to Enoch and Elijah, and that it also may have cleared up what appears to be a direct contradiction within Hebrews 11:5. & 11:13.
This clarity was provided by the definition of the transliterated Greek "metatithēmi", that both Enoch and Elijah were "changed and transposed, placing one of which is put in place of the other".
However, it is my opinion that "context" must be maintained within Scripture and that the applicable and appropriate definitions be utilized to understand correctly what is being expressed.
What satan did by scattering the disciples was not the same as what happened to Enoch and Elijah in "a moment, in a twinkling of an eye".
You also say above, "And also beware of people that have 2 and 3 different names on this post but are the same person."
Thanks for the warning Tom, but I'm already aware that this happens.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua.
Who would you be referring to Beacon?
Bro. Gregg Buckley – On the subject of the "gathering" of the Wheat and the Tares – I was talking about the 2nd. Coming of Christ. As their are Wheat and their are Tares. Satan gathering his people — And God gathering His People.
Satan's "rapture takes his subjects into the deeper dimension's" of the kingdom of the World's evil till they become in the likeness of the "Image of the Beast that is within. Worshiping the "unholy spirit of mankinds" imaginations.
At the same time through the whole of the N.T church. 1st Century to Now.
Christ's been Enrapturing His subjects into the "Kingdom of God". The Holy Spirit.
In the O.T Gods Spirit did the same thing. = Gods Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
I believe that is what happen to Enoch, Elijah, Moses, etc. The Bible says it was Christ that was in Moses. To me those in Heb.11 that "the world was not even worthy of". Had faith to reach beyond their day and Message to receive their Power of the "Kingdom of God" which is receiving the Holy Ghost. Which is a complete different dimension of existence. Church means "called out".
God actually "came down in Moses day to the people". To "Gather them" and through Moses received the Word of God. It was Christ that was the Cloud by day and the fire by night. Thee covenant Angel. Was with Moses all the way.
God called them out of the slavery of sin and death while in Egypt. That was an "Exodus" calling out the elect bride from the church that died in the wilderness of unbelief. The had the Blood applied, The Word Given, then Joshua = same name as Jesus set them in heavenly places = the "land of milk and honey the "Promised land" that God gave them. Paul's epistle of Ephesians parallels the Exodus. The placing of Son's. Joshua did that and they eventually became and "Overcome" all their enemies ending in Davids victorious battles and creating Solomon's land of Milk and Honey. The people finally had their Promise fulfilled that God told them to do. Such a magnificent Kingdom with Gold laden Temple doors etc. Etc. Those Golden years were a type of the Millennium of Peace that Jesus Christ brought to the Gentiles also. That so many seek today. But think it is all in the future. The lord told me years ago to preach and teach a NOW message. I'm doing my best.
Lord bless – Beacon
david – dru —- you tell me. Their use to be a man named "Alienated" I imagine you remember. Then he used various different names. And it ended with him being about 3 or 4 different people at the same time. then Called David. His picture is still on here now as dmcal –
Ps cant trust nobody in these days can you. Have a good day.
Hi Beacon, (Tom),
I happen to know alienated, Contender, "Gregg and Buck" fairly well.
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that all of them are me?
I have not returned to argue with you, or anyone for that matter… so you can relax.
I'm not sure as to why I have returned, or what the purpose of doing so is?
You and I would still disagree on many things, but as I said I'm not here to argue.
I had just posted my opinion regarding what had happened to Enoch and Elijah based upon the definitions of specific words with the hopes of clearing up what appears to be a contradiction.
So carry on believing what you wish to believe, I will leave the rebuttal's to those that feel led to do so.
Be Blessed "in" Yeshua.
To the impostor: Greg, dmcal, alienated, john, buckley, contender.
So are you really proud of yourself now. Acting as someone who you are not. Writing yourself a post. I guess you think that is funny. Well it's almost at the point of Blasphemy against me and the Christ that lives in me. I have never done you any wrong. I just do not believe like you do. And you just cannot seem to stand it. Its like the Pharisee's actually plugged up their years and screamed at our Lord. They could not stand to hear the Word. They called him names, sinned against HIM etc. That makes it personal to God and the Son. Unless you get right you will laugh you last laugh at the gates of hell. Jesus was no joker, or deviant. Hope you repent.
I hope that Dru is an honest sincere brother whether we see eye to eye or not – makes no different. I still am having a very lonely life with my wife at my side. Been 4-1/2 years now being a Caretaker for her. I try to find a sincere people. But that's hard to find in this generation. Unless I go through the "Wide Gate" with you. Which I do not plan to do. You sin against someone you have to make it right with that someone. Not just ask Jesus to forgive you. Take a study on that and send it to yourself.
Tom, may I ask you something…. Why are you calling yourself Beacon now?
Most of the people that have been here for a period of time, (over 4 years ago now) have known that I started with my nick name "Buck", after an unfortunate misunderstanding with a female participant here I changed my name to "alienated". At times I used my given name Gregg and during the last time before I left, I changed it to Contender.
Each person that I was having discussions with knew who I was, because the gravatar remained the same.
And even if the gravatar were to be different most people recognize who they are having a discussion with, based upon what they say and how they express themselves.
This is how I knew that though you are calling yourself Beacon now, that you are still Tom York.
So you are actually accusing me of something that you have done yourself.
And I can assure you that I haven't written a post and then responded to it myself as a different name or individual. That would indeed be sad, to be burdened with the need for that much affirmation that one would actually do that.
The rest of what you have to say I will disregard, and will instead wish you peace and the strength of the Lord as you deal with the unfortunate circumstance in respects to your wife.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua.
Ooop's Tom,
I had forgotten one above…..
I used to also go by "Accepted" too.
(I think it was DJ that suggested that one?)
Just wanted to be transparent there, and lay them all out for you.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua
My computer went down and I had to change companies and thats why I just changed it then. Most everybody else had a nickname . So I went with Beacon. – Now that is said. I never was on here with 2 or 3 names at the same time. Makes no sense unless you got something else in mind.
Marianne you the boss – why would you let one man become 3 or 4 people on here especially at the same time. Unless it is to protect you and what you all believe. Which if so. You must be really unstable. Makes not sense at all. Unless its just to bully people or make fun of them and try to confuse.
Do you think Jesus thought it a joke that Pharisee's was always trying to stumble him up with a lot of words just to just accuse Him. Unless those men got right with Him I would not want to have been anyone of them. Son's of perdition. It is a deceiving character to say the least.
And also what is wrong with a post that everybody abandoned and a couple Christians just want to discuss a certain doctrine – I was trying to enjoy some fellowship with John 777 and Dmcal which i did not know till I seen the same picture that he use to use. That I saw over a year ago.
I hope you can be honest that Dru is who he is. I dont take this as funny. But as a sad, sad, thing that Christians would want to play games with Gods word.
Its pitiful and childishness for grownups to act like that. Please help this forum in Jesus name.
Beacon –
Wow, I go away for a few days and people seem to be throwing sand around – people calling other people "unstable" – at least the sand box is being emptied but, I thought it was we who were to empty ourselves:
"We are so busy serving God, that we don't have time to know Him. How empty are we, of our concerns, schedules, interests, and other people, that we have room in our day to spend alone with God?"
"How badly do we want to know God?"
"Or is He just convenient to us when we have a prayer need?"
"Or is He just "someone out there" to pray to?"
"Do we just shoot off a one minute prayer to him at the end of the day?"
yep . . . . . . here comes another bucket . . . . . .
Yes Denise let us try and return this to the topic at hand.
Here is a video by Carter Conlon dealing with the topic of emptying yourself, and putting to death the flesh. "If You are making promises to God you are going to fail. But if you are living by the promises of God to you, you are going to be able to finish the journey" Difference between being led by human will (Approx 23:00 minute mark)
Oops sorry wrong video.
Here we go, accidentally copied a channel on youtube, went to top of playlist.
Oh, and Buck, You may want to watch this video, before you go and accuse someone of being self righteous, whose spirit has been broken by the Lord.
20 month old Christian child imprisoned in Sudan!!!!!
Come Lord Jesus Come!!!
To all on this site:
I want to remind all of you, of the dream of a city that I posted on the other page. Buck says he did not know why he came back to this site, the answer is in the last line of this dream. As I said, this dream is of THIS CHURCH. I have a time stamp on my email for this, and that I wrote it as I awoke. Everything about this dream has proved true.
The Youthfullness at the beginning indicates my naivette and immaturity when I first came here. The illusion of beauty is the apparent Christianity of this site. When I broke the glass, is the exposure that I brought to the site. But no one saw it and my disappearance was my being banned from this site. Though I disappeared, I never left the site (Hiding in the underside of the decrepid bridge) The Old friend, is Buck, And Now is the time that I reappeared to Buck, who was still admiring the beauty of this city.
I will post the dream here, again….
Dream of a city, where and when it began: 40th day of the Omer/ ascension day 2013.
A dream 5/4-5/5 2013 @ 1:40 am
I saw a child win a painting competition and the painting was praised as a masterpiece, and this child as a prodigy. The child was female.
The painting was enshrined in a museum, because of the praise it received.
I as a child then myself, saw the painting as Baseless, meaningless, and ugly. I was largely alone in this perception.
Sometime later, as an adult, I came back to that city. The city had become highly advanced, and everything seemed perfect. All the people were in shells of security, order abounded, and peaceful. Yet to me it was a lifeless and dead world. All throughout the city, there were multitudes of people with cameras taking pictures of this city, as tourists, and they were all awestruck at how beautiful this city was.
This world and the painting of the child were tied together, and I knew that I had to go and see this painting that the child had made again. I needed to see it, in order to understand this world, and what was missing from peoples perceptions. I went to an old friend from my childhood who still lived in that city, and explained to him my dillema, and he agreed to take me to see that painting in the local museum in which it hung behind glass. The painting was esteemed as an ideal image of the world. In fact it was idolized in a way. But the glass behind which it hung distorted this image, and made it look more appealing than I had remembered it as a child. I said to my friend "this is not the same ugly image I remember as a child." I then proceeded to break the glass that was covering and distorting the painting, and lo and behold, there was this same ugly painting behind the glass that I remembered as a child. My friend did not see it that way. The glass was a facade to cover and beautify the painting so that it would even appear as beautiful in the eyes of the wise.
My "friend" however, did not see, and in turn betrayed me and called for security. I took off running. As I ran, the facade of beauty around this city was becoming shattered. Ugliness became visible again. Homeless people appeared as if out of thin air, poverty, filth, prostitution, slave labor….etc. Most of the poor and homeless saw what I saw, but others continued about snapping pictures and commenting how beautiful it was in that city. I stopped and talked to one homeless person, living in a shantytown, and he said to me that all of a sudden, these deep dark woods and polluted streams became visible to them. I looked at those woods he was referring to, and I could see all kinds of vile creatures coming out of them, Hybrids and mutations of animals that looked vaguely familiar, yet were unclean and despicable. It was as if the world of the demonic had now become visible to some.
The leader of this city was revealed to me as well, as an ugly beastly man. he had a beloved assistant who ruled with him who was small in stature and very annoying. There in his prescence I saw my friend who had betrayed me explaining what had happened to this leader. I was running and hiding from his police officers, who could not find me. (for some reason I do not think they could even see me).
Some time passed, days, weeks? I am unsure. But I found myself in hiding under an old decrepid metal bridge. I was peering through the rusty latticework, when I spotted my friend and several of his buddies with cameras in hand, snapping pictures and being awestruck by the beauty of their citiy. What they were taking pictures of was filth, rust, pollution and scavenging creatures.
I came out from my hiding spot to confront my friend again, and he was stunned to see me, almost as if I appeared out of thin air….At this point I awoke from my sleep.
The City, is the church…..THIS CHURCH!!!
God bless….repent….find Jesus, get to know him. I am nothing, He is everything. All glory to God.
I do not know the outcome of this last encounter as I awoke at that point. I do know that this dream was from God, and that as I wrote it down, in the wee hours of the morning, the Holy Spirit gave me recall of all the details of the dream. For a long time, I thought this was a dream of the western church in general, which in many ways it is, but it has these personal aspect which came to my understanding only when I posted the dream on the other page.
So Buck, I came back here for you….like it or Not. The same way you were led to come back here as well. The choice of what you do is in your hands. I came back, with the Power of the Lord behind me. I come here with the calling of Jude: "21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh."
I came back here for you and the friends of yours who are still taking pictures, and see only the Beauty of this city. I do not know the outcome, but I do know that all the harm you seek to cause me is done with this delusion in mind. It is not me who is trying to reach you though, as it is not I who live, it is Christ who lives in me. It is he, who is knocking at the door to your heart. Will you let him in???
In Jesus name, Silence………
just trying something?
Well I'm not Joseph so I'm not going to apply what could be an alternative interpretation to your dream, however I can point out one very important aspect that is wrong with your personal interpretation regarding it.
I have stated this over and over to you and you simply disregard what I have said and continue on and on and on.
"Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ, God the Father in the flesh is my Holy Savior and Redeemer!
He is my Everything. I place no trust in anything but Him for Salvation.
He is the only "Way, Truth and Life"
I was unworthy of His death for me on that Cross, and was guilty of pounding those nails into His flesh myself with my sins, yet He still chose to die for me, and I treasure Him for that.
I could never earn what He has provided and offered freely to me, (to us), and I am well aware that in all of eternity, I will also never be able to fully repay Him for that Gift.
I could go on and on expressing my undying and surrendered Love for Him and all that He means to me, for your sake, But He knows my Love for Him.
It is between Him and I.
There is no need for you to be involved whatsoever.
It's a finished work that He has accomplished all on His own.
He is alone is Sufficient!"
Amen and Amen.
Do you get that?
Can you move forward now?
So let me get this straight….
What you are saying is that, "I came here so that you could tell me to leave here?"
And if while I am here, I happen to speak what I perceive within my heart to be God's Truth, He is going to judge me for that?
Dude your simply delusional.
I will "NOT" fall away, and God always places His people within the midst and very centers of each Babylon to speak His truth.
Romans 10:14,15.;
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
I am going to leave, but not in response to any accusation or thing that you have said based upon your own distorted views.
But simply because you're driving me nuts.
To everyone else here, Be blessed in the Grace of Yeshua for He is your Everything.
If the Father had sent me back here to impart a edifying word for others and you became the stumbling stone regarding that, well I pray that He forgives you, because I don't believe that you can help yourself.
Are we all empty enough, now?
Hi Denise,
Soon I will be washing my hands clean of this city, Then everyone here can go back to snapping pictures. Right now the Lighting is off as there is too much glare. When I am gone, then the pictures will look better. Do not mistake my boldness in Christ Jesus for cockiness or pride. Think of it as a Fire.
I do not know you personally, but if the Spirit of the Lord is in You, you will be able to answer the following. What is the best way to hide sin from others?
You ask: "What is the best way to hide sin from others?"
The simple answer is that the hypocrite is the man who hides his own sin, not the one who conceals the errors of others. At His trial Jesus did not open His mouth. He accused no one. He left such necessity up to the Word of God. For, It is by the Word of God that we all shall be judged.
What are the unseen reasons which cause men to feel compelled to ridicule, expose the sins of others, and denigrate? Could it be that a sense of superiority dominates their thinking? Surely, in their own minds they feel they have not committed sins nearly as heinous as those they are exposing. Arbitrarily they categorize the laws of God. And they determine the degrees and magnitudes of sin. They believe the sins committed by others are of much greater magnitude than are those committed by themselves—if they admit to any sin at all.
Is it possible that men censure, ridicule, and show contempt for others to cover their own guilt? There is no man who does not sin. The hypocrite is the man who hides his own sin, not the one who conceals the errors of others.
Psalms 32: Happy is the person whose sins are forgiven, who wrongs are pardoned; (2) Happy is the person whom the Lord does not consider guilty, in that person there is nothing false. (3) When I kept things to myself, I felt weak deep inside me, I moaned all day long. (4) Day and night you punished me, My strength was gone as in the summer heat. (5) Then I confess my sins to you, I didn't hide my guilt, I said, "I will confess my sins to the Lord."
Not sure this answers your question, but it answers mine.
Close, on your third paragraph,
The one who wishes to hide is sin is likely to be the most outspoken critic of that sin. Do you remember the preacher who was an outspoken critic of homosexuality? Turns out he was living the lifestyle.
Good question "Dru" – Good post – could not of said it better. Jesus rebuked people cause HE had to. When in the face of a devil that is trying to tear you down and the truth along with it is what Christians do. Rebuke out of Love for the person. As a Parent rebukes their children they love.
Keep the faith. Beacon
Maybe after a a few days or a couple of weeks you'll notice a change within HA and return. It may not be long. Pic a new name and attach a pic, pressing upward.
Confession time: I did change my picture once.
At first my name was associated with a pic of Louie – a cute, white French Bulldog. Then. after awhile, the pic of Louie seemed silly and not appropriate for discussions and posts regarding Scriptures and spiritual matters.
Psalm 25
really, gentelmen, going back and forth about these subjects, and trying to tear down each other is not what god or our lord would wish us to do. we all have our fualts but this discussion going back and forth with 3 of you is not doing anyone but the devil any good. i cannot tell anyone what to do but i can read these posts the last couple of days and am consirned .
"And how shall they believe in HIM of whom they have not heard?
This is all I have ever tried to do on this forum. Is to help people see things that I had never seen or realized in my first 10 to 12 years of being a Christian in a Pentecostal church.
When you have tasted of the "Mystery of God" its just like getting Born again. And you just cannot contain the excitement of the truth. No longer did I have to hear singing for an hour to feel God and get excited. I can do it just studying the great mysteries that God died to give His Bride. That most that are compacent do not want to trouble with it. But that is sad way to be.
If you are a child of God by birth of His Spirit sooner or later you have to cross the great divide rightly dividing the Truth.
There has been some on here that the Message of the deeper life has attracted. And when that happen's to a believer. They will never be satisfied until they understand the Message for this hour. Its not for everyone to know. Some are called to the deeper life. Their are different administration of callings in the Body of Christ. Everyone is not to be a great prophet. But some are to sing, and minister to others with the gifts and callings. But lets not throw out the Deeper Mysteries of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. As Marianne said and it is truth. Many people are afraid of the deeper revelation. It makes them feel unstable.
Acts 20: 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
ACTS 20:27 For I have not shunned to ""(declare unto you all the counsel of God. "") Paul also suffered for his Message. Even unto death.
Also Paul's writing below
Heb. 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb. 5:12- For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb. 5:13- For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb. 5:14- (But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age), even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Peter talking to about Pauls Message:
3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some (things hard to be understood,) which they (that are unlearned and unstable wrest,) as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Seems to me we as believers should all want to know more about Jesus Christ. But our Pastors have to teach the same as Paul and Disciples but then again that was the problem with Israel's generation. Every man did what was right in his own eyes. That is our generation today.
Yes indeed its a battle. But it can save your life and save you from error that as Paul said would destroy you.
Jesus picked 12 disciples that would really labor in the Word.
What is wrong with America today is that it has been "evangelized" TO DEATH. By the simple gospel. To fill their church's. That was good in 1906 to the end of 60's. But it will not due in this last age of Laodicea. Young people want answer's. Middle age wants answer's. Old people are still to complacent.
I see you are censoring the truth again?
You got the right to you opinion as I said. If you will just look up Man or "mankind" in the O.T you will find that in every case that they are "mortal" and die -UNLESS they knew their God and kept his covenant. Their will be NO DOGS enter into the city. Dogs are beast and die and are gone period already having been judged by their nature which was a beast nature. In the Resurrection of Christ did you see any mortals that were sinners walking around. NO just the Prophets and the Saints. ONLY – The bottom line their is a great "gulf" between the World and the Kingdom of God. The gentiles were as dogs and even Jesus called the woman a dog. Its hard but the truth. It was the riches of the world that Israel went to and their they become the Rich man and left God and His Christ. Israel has lived in desolation for 2,000 years now. Yet God in His mercy let Abraham be their father as well as the Jews. Remember he was a gentile to begin with.
I,m done with all this myself. For one thing I do not have the time. Or the patience anymore to try to fellowship the way you want it or need it.
I hope you the best and have nothing in my heart against you. Hope you are the same way. Beacon
Beacon, (Tom),
The simple definition of "plagiarism" is as follows;
"The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own."
The above that you posted was written by a Cecil Hook and can be found verbatim on the following Preterist website through this link.
Now personally I have no problem with copying and pasting material to express what one believes, however in the future, out of mere respect for the actual author, perhaps you should please also name the source from which it was copied and pasted.
With that said, though I disagree totally with the Preterist view point that the "giving of the Holy Spirit was in actuality, the Second Coming of Yeshua", I don't necessarily disagree with much of the content expressed within Cecil Hook's commentary.
I, (as well as millions of others), accept Luke 16:19 through 31 as being a parable.
Now I'm not going to say that I am right and Don (dmcal) is wrong, because though he does not accept these verses as being a parable, I believe that his interpretation also has merit worthy of consideration.
However, this is why I happen to accept it as a parable and also accept some of Hook's explanations regarding it.
In Luke 15:1. we see that many tax collector's and sinners had drawn close around Yeshua so that they could hear Him better. And the Pharisee's judged Yeshua for allowing them to do that and said, "Look, this Man accepts and welcomes sinners and even eats with them!"
In Luke 15:3., Yeshua stops what He is doing and acknowledges theses Pharisee's that had just judged Him, and Luke records that acknowledgement as Yeshua responds to their comments with a parable.
Luke 15:4-7., is the parable of the "Lost Sheep" and Yeshua tells these Pharisee's about the joy in heaven that occurs when one of these sinners that are surrounding Him, repents and returns to God. (This I'll call parable 1-a.)
Luke 15:8-10., is the parable of the "Lost Coin", and it expounds upon and reiterates the parable of the "Lost Sheep".
(This I'll call 2-a, because it's the 2nd. parable in a row that expresses the same thing.)
Luke 15:11-32., is the parable of "The Lost and Prodigal Son", and Yeshua pounds the previous points of the first 2 parables home, with an in depth explanation. (This I'll call 3-a, for it is the 3rd. "parable in a row" and all "3"of these "parables" are relative to each other.)
In Luke 16;1., we read and see that Yeshua now turns to His disciples, (perhaps by just turning His head and facing them), and though He is now talking to them, He is still within hearing distance of the Pharisee's, (see Luke 16:14. to confirm this.)
And though He is now facing His disciples, the parable of Luke 16:1-13., and that of "The Unjust Steward" is most definitely directed to the Pharisee's.
(I'll call this parable 4-b. for it is the 4th. spoken parable in a row, but now it is designated by a "b" because the subject itself has changed.
No longer is the topic about the joys in heaven when sinners that have been lost return, but rather the topic consists of those that were given a responsibility and have "dropped the proverbial ball" and will act shrewdly and conspire to steal from their Master to save their own skins.)
In Luke 16:14. we see that the Pharisee's did indeed hear what Yeshua had just said and realized that they were the ones that were being referred to as being the "The Unjust Steward's". After they had basically "turned up their noses" to what He had said, Yeshua responds with what Luke writes within the verses of 16:15-18.;
"And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. 18 Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery."
Now verse 18 above wasn't simply spoken arbitrarily, but with intention.
It is completely relevant to the parable of "The Unjust Steward".
The Pharisee's had forgotten and divorced their first love, and had played the harlot and had married another by seeking earthly riches and prestige, rather than God.
Yeshua knew that they, knowing the Law, would understand with Him saying that, that "they" had "committed adultery".
So we see that Yeshua is still within the process of condemning the Pharisee's.
And now we come to the verses in question, Luke 16:19-31., and that of "The Rich Man and Lazarus".
Are they a parable or not?
Well 4 parables have just been spoken in a row to these Pharisee's that had been listening with the last 1 specifically directed at them.
Therefore in my opinion, I would classify this as parable 5-b. for I believe that Yeshua is now explaining what the consequences are going to be for the Pharisee's that have "committed adultery".
I won't bother to expound myself on those consequences, for I believe that they are self evident within the text themselves. But this is why I personally believe that these verses are also a "parable".
Now, earlier above I had also stated, that I believe that "Don's" (dmcal) interpretation also has merit worthy of consideration.
Because whether this is a parable or not, even a parable is defined as "a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson".
Therefore being spoken by Yeshua it may also contain a "literal Truth".
Perhaps what is expressed by Yeshua within these verses had already occurred countless times?
Perhaps it is also an historical account expressing what had happened to many of the Pharisee's over the years?
Though it is my personal opinion that this is a parable, that doesn't negate the possibility of that fact whatsoever.
Just my opinion.
Be Blessed "IN" Yeshua.
Gregg and all. I will get back with you all – Been at it all day and week. Gregg I probably have sent in about 4 or 5 studies of others that I believed like. In the last 2 &1/2 years. I owe it to myself when I am so tired I'm compelled to do that. I enjoyed your post Gregg and have to go with it. But I'm going to look at the passages again cause I think there is more to it to make it plainer. But I do absolutely believe it is a parable. Parables always break down to a Spiritual meaning. But to the real disciples he explained them. Matt. 13.
dmcal – I usely consider all men's interpretations. But ? I was already indoctrinated in that interpretation while in the Pentecostal, and Charismatic movements. So yes it is hard to recapitulate when you have been taught that for years and have changed alot in those years for the better.
Yes Marianne – I just love discussing the word of God. Its my life and Im not trying to act sanctimonious. Jesus told the people to search the word for the days are coming that we gonna have to know it. I think we are in that day. The great falling away into error upon another little error upon another little error. Can change the complete revelation of the truth.
Even the disciples were numb when Jesus came and walked with them after the resurrection on the Emmaus Road. Until He gave them a history lesson in the scriptures and brought HIMSELF up through the OT ages to their age. And then their eyes were opened and they KNEW Him when breaking the Bread open. = The word became real to them and they went rejoicing.
Lord bless you Marianne. Thanks for your encouragement.
An insightful video. There are about 12 years in between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. I do not believe God is even mentioned in the Constitution, whereas God was mentioned in the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence.
It is a strange and interesting past that this country has. In President Washington's farewell address (and Washington spoke in some very strange ways, did people really speak this way 200 years ago?) It is like he could see well into the future. That as much as we want, as a country, to be united in common interests, it is experience and habits that will prevail over any written constitution.
Will we ever be empty enough to even leave room for God? It seems it was doubtful then. In his 1796 farewell address to Congress, Washington states:
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."
It is going to get interesting.
is this not what is going on right now in the u.s. ; freedom of speech is being removed by the goverment in the guise of "hate speech" week after week you hear of people being accused of this so called "hate speech", attempts by the goverment to ban gun sales to citizens is slowly gaining ground, there can only be one reason for that happening. and it is not to stop crime. marriage has now been compromized. the rainbow colation has nothing to do with god's bow in the sky. i could go on and on but i believe the point is made.
I agree entirely, and it began only 12 years after declaring ourselves a country, God began disappearing from here – and I fear it will only get worse.
Bro. John 777 – Gregg & dmcal and all.
The Great "chasm or gulf" between the Rich man and Lazarus.
Lasted from Abraham's day to Jesus Christ day. And it consisted of the the "time" before God united Gentiles and Israel together. Jesus Christ Death, burial, and Resurrection bridged this gap between Jew and Gentile. The Gentiles were considered 'dogs" and did not have the great favor of God as did Israel for 2,058 years from Abraham to Jesus Christ.
God chose Israel first to "raise up" and be His Bride – Jeremiah used the word Bride in his writings. A Special people . That become very favored with Grace and Love and become Prosperous, and a mighty Nation in time. But then sold out their birth rights for the riches of this world.
Rom. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom. 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: The Jews as a whole rejected the "The Spiritual Kingdom of God" when Christ died for it and sent them the Holy spirit which is the "Kingdom of God" in all men that would except it. The Spirit or I could say the "Tree of Life" came back to them and the world had access to it by the Blood of Jesus Christ restoring back what the 1st. Adam caused to fall.
If God is a Spirit then what is the Holy spirit – but God Himself in His creation brought to us by The Son of Man who was a little lower than the angels till His own Resurrection back to God. Jesus said I came from God and I go back to God.
Meaning dogs licked the wound
The dogs licked Lazarus wound — Stop and think about the gentile woman who needed healing and stood at the door of the Jews waiting for Jesus to come by. To heal her. Jesus said "it is not meat to give the children's bread to the dogs". But "she had faith" and Jesus granted her request. Same with the Centurion who sent slaves to Jesus to heal his servant. The "gentile centurion" said he was not even worthy for Jesus to come into his house cause he was a sinner. Yet Jesus said "he had more faith that all of Israel. " Now you can see what is happening in the near future for the Jew and Gentile is coming together. Remember that many people stood at the door of the Temple trying to get healed or salvation. Deliverance
The Great Gulf or Chasm :
The "Great Gulf or chasm" was between "Gentile and Jew". But the Blood that was in the Eternal LIFE CELL that fell on the earth =clay is going to Join with the rest of the Nation's to become "Disciples of Christ" same as the Jew.
Hope you see what I mean on this. Tree of life was only mentioned in Genesis and Revelation. And we all should know it was not an apple.
The Gentile were thought of as lower beings. And could not as "a whole" receive Jesus Christ until after Israel rejected their Messiah. Remember Peter having to have 3 visions to even go to the house of the Italian band. And they received the "Holy Spirit" the same as we Peter said. Speaking of Acts. 2:38 on. That event happened between 3 to 10 years after the Resurrection of Christ.
Christ became their Bridge over that Great gulf and chasm and were excepted of the beloved and cleansed from all sins as well as the Jews.
Now on the Focus of the Parable:
The focus of the story is not on the mechanics of Hades, but on the two characters: Lazarus and the rich man.
Specifically he tells Abraham "Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house– for I have five brothers–in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment." (Luke 16:27,28)
In Genesis 35:22,23 we read a rather obscure genealogical statement that helps us in this investigation: "…the sons of Leah: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, then Simeon and Levi and Judah and Issachar and Zebulun." Evidently, Jacob had twelve sons, of which six were born by Leah.
Judah therefore had five brothers, a well-known fact among the Jews, confirmed again by Leah's own statement in Genesis 30: "God has endowed me with a good gift; now my husband will dwell with me, because I have borne him six sons." (Verse 20)
Quite clearly therefore, the rich man with five brothers described in the parable is none other than Judah, to whom (generally speaking) the priesthood, the Law and the Prophets were entrusted, so being a poor steward seems to be the fault of the rich man.
We also know this by what the Rich man wore – As a Priest etc. Purple – and Blue and White. Much much more could be said but that is the main point of this saying of Jesus Christ. Jesus was not focusing on what hell was only that it was a suffering place to be in. The other Five brother's were in the house of Judah that the rich man was talking about.
dmcal and all
These are 2 different dimensions. We have to understand. Which is below.
We have to die out and carry our cross while in this world if we going to cross over that great divide of the "Kingdom of Darkness" into the "Kingdom of light".
Their is absolutely a great gulf between Darkness vs. light. Good vs. Evil, Proud vs. Humble
Their was a fall by Adam 1 – breaking the bridge from Man to God in unity.
That is the gulf. The gulf is darkness, death, sin, that produces Death, Hell , and the Grave. Also Faith vs. Doubt – a gulf – Sickness vs Health is a gulf – eternal death vs. Eternal life their is a gulf, chasm, another dimension etc.
Jesus Christ bridged the "gulf of sin, death, sickness, perversion, killing, unrighteousness on and on". Read both Duet. 28 and 29th. chapters. Nothing but Blessings or Curses for mankind. Egypt was a great gulf to the slaves of Israel. Till Moses the "Word and Spirit" come to them. They were in a hopeless condition against Pharaoh and his armies of devils.
To be in Adam 2 = Jesus Christ. Made it possible to eat of the ETERNAL life tree freely after His resurrection. Mankind and God kissed and made up at Calvary. That was the gulf between God and man. If you miss that gulf or chasm. You missed what life was all about.
Jesus Christ was our redeemer from the great chasm, and gulf that the 1st. Adam caused. Only Jesus Could do it. No other man. Rev. 5 – It had to be the God/man not made by hands or sex desire.
And while I'm thinking of it. Moses had Christ in him to deliver Israel out of the great "gulf" – ditch – valley, river, red sea, mountains, enemies etc.
From slave's to Kings ruling the land. Doing the impossible. They had the favor of God with them. As did Lazarus have Gods favor over the great Rich Religious Priest.
The Sin of Adam's World was standing in mankind's way=a gulf that stops us from entering into the "Eternal Kingdom of God=Holy Spirit. Mankind lost its connection with the Tree of Eternal life. Was not the "Tree of life" protected after man sinned. So their would not be such a thing as a "Eternal sinner" either. There is no Eternal life except in Jesus Christ who was God in a flesh body – the Jews actually called it a Mask. God just changes mask when HE wants something done.
To all
Dmcal – You must remember and take thought. The Bible is about Salvation. From the beginning to the end. That is what I think the Bible means as a whole. We can discuss the dead and where you go. But to me most all parables are about salvation in some form or another. Their is always a "fear of losing your soul and understanding what the scriptures really mean. If you are a believer. It was Jesus Christ will that all be saved. But He also knew that all would not heed His Message. Still its about Deliverance or Salvation to me.
The Jews said – What must we do to have Eternal life. Jesus said believe on Him who was sent. Jesus was the Manifested, Revelation of "THE WORD" and told all His disciples the Hidden manna, and the "mysteries of God". He said I have Told you ALL things. This is why we still "discuss" the word amen.
The Truth is here now and has to be heard. Its up to the body of Christ to dig their well and find it. No digging – No revealing.
dmcal said to me — you're saying that the "chasm is symbolic" for our being separated from God because of sin.
answer – Well all symbols have to be understood by -A material object representing something immaterial emblem or sign. = Webster – You doing the same thing you accuse me of. You just want a literal translation. I want the literal and the Spiritual meaning of the Whole parable. Even if this event was literal it still has a literal and Spiritual meaning.
Dmcal you said – But as I said before, there is absolutely no way for you to prove by Scripture, that this is the meaning for the chasm.
Answer – You have never given me your answer on what is the gulf or chasm even is. I guess you would have to literally think its all about "hell fire" as you say and think. But that is not true dear brother. What you are saying is that you got it right and I don't. You are making a symbol out of it yourself and all you see is the "literal material Hell fire that you gonna live in eternally. Which is false doctrine.
What we really need to know is what put that rich man into hell. He was a deceived Preacher or Priest. Answer – He never ever crossed over the "chasm" from a "time element" to an "Eternal element" Rev, 10:6. He stayed a natural man. He never ever understood the "Thunder of Gods message" that his prophets Abraham or Moses etc. gave him. So he never understood the truth for his day. Never experienced the Celestial man at all. He was deceived and went to hell. He had no ear to hear what the Prophets and Abraham and Moses had to say. He was to busy being rich and powerful and haunty.
Also I will answer your 1000 to one remark. To me you got it backwards.
I think it myself as 1,000 to one that more are deceived like the Rich man. Cause in the O.T it says one Israelite would chase a 1,000 enemy away. Praise God.
At 22 years old I probably thought it all one sided as you think now. I just got saved and they preached fear all the time. They "loved preaching Fear to people" and used that scripture constantly to bring them to the alter. And that is alright in its place. But "fear"only. Cannot keep a marriage together. But fear with Love and Grace that brings Overcoming Faith in the trials of life.
Yet today we seemed to learn our lesson on FEAR and now they just Teach on how much "God loves you" and never hear of hell fire judgment. Either way if you only preach and teach one side of anything you are bound for failure. Perversion will come from it. It always does. Balance is what we look for for all believers who love the Word of God. They seeking the Truth not a lop sided Gospel. ""So maybe we both right."" There should be a "Fear of Hell" — with the "Love" for GOD — Hello – hope we can agree on that.
Love brings justice. Love is correctional and being evil needs correction.
But governments are coming down on anybody judging others. People scared to say anything might get put in jail.
Matt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: "'but rather "fear Him" which is able to ""destroy both soul and body"" in hell. =Gehenna –
The word "Hell" here is Gehenna – The valley of death and sorrow. People laid for days and days dying of leprosy, cancers, old age, wound's, sickness, abandoned by family etc. etc.
The city keep the fire burning so that when they died they just rolled them down the hill and into the fire to be "done away with" "and burned up". To purify the air and the stench. And get rid of the body period.
After studying this further if you look into the "greek" it reveals the Rich man had no such suffering in his life. He was blessed of God and prosperous as a Priest of God. BUT he did not "Know God" so how could the Rich man help him and lead Him to God. Let alone have mercy upon poor Lazarus. So we both know that the Rich man had no discernment at all and was a Priest.
Which is scarier to you. Laodicea is the Rich and last church age. They say we have need of nothing. We got it all. Jesus said they lied. The church today is bound up in false doctrines. The truth is alien to this generations as it was in Jesus generation. Love and prosperous is about all they preach about.
Same as like Nicodemus a head Leader came to Jesus at night. Jesus had to tell him about the"New Birth" that was in the O.T and N.T covenants. Jesus rebuked that Priest for not knowing about God making a New Creation out of people like He did the Prophets and Moses, and Elijah and all. That priest could not even lead a person to God. Elijah could, Moses could, Prophets could and all died for it.
Your Soul is the NATURE of your SPIRIT. Which is your "CHARACTER" that MARKS your "Identity to Heaven or Hell". Your Eternal Life or Death is shown by your Mark of Character you are . Rev. 13:6 – This is probably the most needed statement in this whole post and in ALL the church's today bar none. How to know that you are not lost. Is what we all need to understand. Its by our Character which is the Nature of your spirit. If you live for lust. Your Character sooner or later will tell on you. The Holy Spirit will correct you if you are a real believer.
The rich mans "Mark" was his Character and it was bad. Sooo bad they he let Lazarus go hungry at his door. He did not even try to help him or pray for him. The Rich man was a son of Cain with no remorse even though he was a Priest of some kind.
bottom line of this parable – One went to Heaven – One went to Hell –
The Poor slob that had no comfort in life and suffered all his life in destitution, and agony. Knew more about God's mercy than the Rich man knew and him being a priest. The Rich man found out the difference when he was dying and wanted his 5 brothers to know their Lord by Moses Covenant and Law and Grace. The Rich man saw it to late. I have experienced this same thing in my own life. Dear People that said they were Christians crying out on their death bed. Cause they did not know if they were really ready to meet God. I loved both of them. But when they died they were still uncertain. And I have hope they are their. But I do not know.
The Rich man being a Priest had time to tell his brothers to live right and not be LOST AS HE WAS. But how could he. He was lost and could not lead them to God. So whats worse in this parable to know — Lazarus not educated in Religion but was humble and believed in God and Moses and Abraham. Or the rich man going to hell. Its a Toss up amen. We need to understand this whole Parable to let people understand both sides of the picture. symbols
To be Saved and not Lost is the Main issue of the whole Bible to me.
The Tree of Eternal Life – or its – The Tree of eternal death. And that was in the VERY BEGINNING of life on earth. Alpha and Omega.
"Satan's first message"
There is a great "gulf" between the 2 Trees. How could one not believe that. And or disagree with that. The Gulf, or Chasm, was the sin of eating from the tree of death and dying. How many know the Tree was Christ rejected. But if you love to eat from the Tree of death. And think you are still going to Heaven you are as deceived as Eve was by satan who said in his sly serpent way.
Eating of the Tree of Carnal Knowledge will make you like gods. And then satan said and you will NOT surely die. That's the First Message Satan ever Preached and it's being preached to day at an alarming rate to the lost. Everybody is going to Heaven. That is what this world thinks. Also the church world. You can be a sinner and still go to heaven. If you practice sin and are a real Christian you will know when you sin. And you can make it right with God. This is why I'm always telling everybody that receiving the HOLY GHOST is not an option. Its a must have. It is your adoption. It is your Marriage. It is your New Creation Birth. And it is Your Guide to all truth. You have been received of the Father and are now a Son of God.
Now the last point
The 1,000 year Millennium "Was a Day to Peter" Its the "Day of the Lord" who owns all mankind. But each in their own order our ages. And like David said. The Cattle on a thousand hills is Gods. The means all the cattle and also that means "All of Mankind belongs to GOD as well". How could you separate it. No one in the Bible ever lived to be 1,000 years old. Our life is our Millennium in two ways = Eternal life or eternal death. Millions calling themselves Christians today will never see their millennium because they have never experienced the "Kingdom of Heaven" on their piece of earth yet. Jesus knew Cain, Esau, Judas, was going to be lost. But He also Knew Peter, James, and John was not. One group eternally lost. The other group with Eternal Life. That's what salvation is – A calling to you personally in the 2nd. Coming of Jesus Christ to stand with the Apostles of the 1st century Coming. Till the complete end of the Age of Salvation comes to its end. Its the end for the Wide gate people. But the Beginning to the Narrow gate people. Who said we got it in Matt.7 – Look at all we done the great miracles of schools, and teachings, casting out devils , won many to the Lord. And Jesus said " I never Knew you" I would rather know "who I am" and not deceived as was the Rich man.
This is the blessedness, and Grace of the "Salvation the God" that has been given us. If you know you are chosen then rejoice with Lazarus. And shun the Rich man in his stuffed shirt and arrogance. Make your election and calling SURE. The Believer will. He has the fear and the love of God in him and trembles at thy WORD. But not the unbeliever.
I hope others do also read yours and my posts and all others. That would like to Discuss not argue. Discussing, Debating is not evil. It is how you learn new things. The New wine is good for the soul and the mind. Keeps us watching. Ready to go. New wine is a stimulation. Thats what happen on day of Pentecost. They got stimulation by Revelation. Brothers that is so sweet when it happen's to you as well. And you know you have heard from God. And He lives IN you.
All scriptures dove tail together. If it does not dove tail together then that will put a break in the continuity of the Word of God. Now just look at how long of study we have put into this one little parable. It leads to another subject to another subject that all dove tails with the Word. With different meanings.
Im glad that Jesus had the "Emmus walk" with two of his disciples. He went from Moses and brought up ALL scriptures of Him being the Messiah. Literal will not explain the Spiritual and it's a given that the generation of Jesus day were hung up in the literal more than the Spiritual. The majority took it all literal. Could not recognize their on Deliverer.
We must have the "Spiritual" in us to see the Spiritual that is in the word.
I preached a whole sermon to you above. Showing you all the things that dove tail with just this one parable. You missed it completely again.
I also give you a benefit of the doubt that your meaning could be right. But mine as well.
You said – Furthermore, the Scripture states that the place is Hades and not Hell, which are two different places.
Answer absolutely wrong – Death, Hell, and the Grave have got the same exact meaning to them.
Dmacl – You said to me- I have told you over and over again what the chasm is and it is the same as the Scripture states below:
" And besides all this, between us and you a "great chasm" has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."
Answer amen – Two different distinct people and places. You are saying the exact same thing Im saying. The gulf is the sinner that knows not God – And does not feel a need for God as he should. He is a carnal Christian saying it up to date. So Yes that is what I have been saying as well. Just in another way. The 2 Trees have a gulf between them. When Adam and Eve sinned that created a "gulf" between good and evil. But it was the "Plan of Salvation" that God instituted. To become a Man and die for His own . Showing Himself as a Savior — praise God and not just a creator.
A sinner cannot pass over the "Great gulf of death" unless he has been converted.
You said — So in this place within the heart of the earth, there is a literal chazm or trench fixed between the place of paradise where Lazarus and Abraham were, separating it from Hades where the rich man was in torment in flame.
My answer – I just explained that. Like I said its basically the same as I'm saying but you seem to be so scared of the Spiritual interpretation of anything.
Also Father Abraham was considered as God like to his sons and daughters.
So Lazarus was with God.
Yes the Rich man went back to dust and ashes. He was clay to begin with. And he brought his annihilation on by the center of his earth. HIS HEART was not right with God. ""the soul that sinneth, that soul shall die. Eze. 18:4
That Soul represents the WHOLE man.
Yes the Rich man dug his own grave by his lack of faith and love for God.
If you never crossed that great gulf into Salvation its back to dust to dust. You have to die twice as a sinner. But Lazarus only had to die one time. Think about it. The sinner has to die the 2nd. death. Rev. 2 and 3 and on.
The only form of Eternal Fire is in God the all consuming fire. So you would have to be full of the Spirit of God and have Eternal life to live with Him. Jesus was God in flesh body. He is thee Redeemer of all men. The Cross was the Bridge between Death and Life. The only form of Eternal life is found in Jesus Christ. He fixed that great gulf by his death, burial, and resurrection. That His chosen could cross it into Eternal life.
Special Note. On mount transfiguration. Who did you see. Jesus, Moses, and Elijah. Talking to Jesus discussing his death burial and resurrection no doubt.
But the POINT is that Elijah was alive, Moses was alive. They did not have to wait till the Resurrection. Helloooo out their. They represented the O.T church in Moses and Elijah as the living saints. Remember it was a Elijah prophet that introduced Jesus Christ to catch the Jew and Gentiles. To give life to them. That's deep but its the truth. The great cloud of witness is all the saints gathered together. Dressed in white. They never could find Moses, or Elijah. Yet the had already resurrected. Before their time. They both had Christ in them in full power.
Beacon out