text:
Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death"
Vatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research. But now that the Vatican's highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, we can expect things to get more explicit in Vatican City — at least when when it comes to U.S. politics.
Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican's Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues." He then attacked two of the party's most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.
He said Biden and Pelosi, "while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way."
Pelosi drew U.S. bishops' scorn for saying in a television interview last month that the Church itself had long debated when human life begins. Biden is a practicing Catholic who also supports abortion rights and analysts have said he could help woo wavering Catholics into Obama's fold. Both argue that they cannot impose their religious views on others.
Burke said pro-life Democrats were "rare" and that it saddened him that the party that helped "our immigrant parents and grandparents" prosper in America had changed so much over the years.
Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it.
"Lately, I've noticed that other bishops are coming to this position," Burke told Avvenire, which is owned by the Italian bishops' conference.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a letter in 2004 to American bishops restating the Church position that a priest must refuse to distribute communion to a Catholic politician who supported abortion rights. But Burke lamented that the letter was never distributed.
Burke's criticism isn't limited to Democrats. Last year, he accused singer Sheryl Crow of being "a high profile proponent of the destruction of innocent lives" for defending a woman's right to have an abortion and for being a proponent of stem cell research. He resigned as head of a children's medical charity that featured the singer for a benefit concert.
Pope Benedict has been encouraging Catholic bishops to speak out more openly on public policy issues to make the Church's voice heard. Any bets on when we'll hear from Burke next?
We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
Oh, I see.
The Republican party's willingness to wage *nuclear* warfare against Iran in violation of Iran's legal right to pursue uranium enrichment for peaceful purposes (and based upon the Zionist calumny that Ahmadinejad has stated that the Israel 'should be removed from the map') signifies that the Republican party is the party of LIFE.
What would the political landscape in America look like if religion was totally eliminated from the discussions? Neither party is in a position to cast the first stone, but when a bishop starts throwing them, and only at one party, Houston, we have a problem!
The article is about abortion, not Iran, Michael.
Ah… so Burke isn't a hypocrite at all? He loves life in all its manifestations. Or not.
And he's so inclusive because he hit out with his accusations against someone other than a Democrat… he also accused some singer. Wow. That makes it all Even Steven… yeah?
The article is about the "Democrats as the 'party of death\'" (read the title), AS IF the Republicans are the "party of life".
With regards to abortion:
A nuclear war with Iran (apparently, to the "Vatican official", the nuclear incineration and/or slow agonizing death from radiation poisoning, starvation and disease of millions of Muslim men, women, children, infants and fetuses is not as bad as the abortion of hundreds of thousands of Christian fetuses in the United States) will be the precursor to what may very well amount to the abortion of the human *race*, if things turn out as have been widely predicted.
Said "Vatican official" appears to value the life of fetuses *more* than the lives of those who are slaughtered, tortured, and maimed by warfare (who often suffer decades before dying–for example, those Muslims who were victims of chemical warfare during the war between Iraq and Iran).
There does not appear to be any consistent "pro-life" ethic involved here, suggesting a fundamental agreement with the Christo-fascist Crusade which the United States is currently waging against the Muslims.
Michael: Even if you were correct about Iran – – which you are not (and reliable world news sources, not just U.S. sources, differ completely with your conclusions) – – you would still be wrong because the article is about high-profile politicians who happen to be "Catholic" democrats who publicly on TV and in other public venues misrepresented Catholic teaching on abortion for the purpose of attempting to justify their positions on the topic, which Archbishop Burke has every right, and in fact a duty, to correct. And by the way, the Democratic Party in general is a pro-choice party – – i.e., ok to abort a baby in the womb. Imagine if your mother had thought that way, Michael? And, Pat, I agree with you that neither party is in a position to throw the first stone but Archbishop Burke is by no means casting the first stone because so- called "Catholic" politicians like Pelosi and Biden (and there are a number of others) have for years been voting on the side of abortion without a single word from the bishops. So the time has finally come (better late than never) for some of the bishops to speak out. It's just unfortunate that it took a public misrepresentation by these politicians of the Church's position on abortion, rather than the terrible act itself, to elicit a correction by the bishops – – but I say again better late than never!
Aborted fetuses, those poor days old souls, are actually lucky. They never will sin, therefore, God in his mercy brings them back into his heavenly fold. God gave us free will with the knowledge that "HE" will judge us for our sins. HE will judge, because he said not to judge unless we want to be judged by him as harshly as we judge others. Murder is murder, whether a 3 day old soul or a 20 year old soul killed in war. If your against abortion, you better be doubly against war. Warriors break the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" and they do it, they hold the gun with intent to kill their misunderstood brother of their own free will. How do you think they will be judged? We need to end all wars and jihads before we think about abortion. our priorities are messed up and backwards. When the world is no longer at war with itself, abortion will truly no longer be needed because by then we will realize the true preciousness of life.
Regardless of one's religious views on abortion, it is unethical to legislate your religion on others.
What Biden said once was "I believe life begins at conception, however I don't feel it is my duty to legislate my faith on others."
And it isn't. The religious zealots in this country and others are constantly trying to shove their views and morals down everyone else's throat.
We created a seperation of church and state for this very reason. People have different beliefs and views and no one is "right" or "wrong". It's simply a religious choice.
One that should NEVER EVER be forced on anyone.
Another issue I have with these pro-life folks, is that they are often the same folks who are strongly against socialized or governmental health care. Which is a double standard.
These people seek to force unwanted births on folks, and then refuse to ensure the newborns health with proper healthcare. It becomes the mother and fathers responsibilty to provide proper health coverage.
But what happens when you're forcing those same mothers and fathers to have children they can not afford? You're essentially forcing a life to be born into poverty and hardship.
What's funny is I am an atheist. I have no religious affiliation at all. Period. Yet I still abhor the idea of abortion. However even when my view is not a religious formed view, it still does not give me the right to legislate my beliefs on another individual.
Each person has a freedom of choice, and the decision a pregnant woman has to struggle with about either having the baby or having an abortion, or giving it up to adoption, or etc. that choice is hers and hers alone.
The Holy See never gave a damn what the laity thought, that much was evident with the way it handled the whole sex and abuse scandal, except when it was convenient for them to issue more dogma and rhetorical mind control to the faithful. They considered the abuse scandal "America's problem", including all the lives they help shatter. The American Dioceses did no better by protecting the violators in their ranks. Benevolence and tolerance, right? Crap. And to have the unmitigated arrogance to announce their primacy over other religions. They really need to practice what they preach and eliminate the patriarchy and Byzantine trappings but most of all shut their self-righteous mouths and stay out of politics, period.
"Beware of piety, it seeks power".
Of course the Catholic church never killed anyone! Republicans will kill any living being on this planet and do so at every opportunity. The hypocrisy of the Catholic church is simply staggering. I'm not saying they should stop breeding all together, but at least skip a generation.
I think that it is safe to say that both main parties need to rise above the dogma and doctrine — from all sources — that prevents the world from developing into a more convivial place. We have vested a tremendous amount of power in institutions and individuals that are doing nothing but trotting out the same old ideologies. As a society, we have been on a downward slide for too long. Let's expand our minds and contract the rhetoric.
Michael, in order to make your point, you need not misrepresent either the Archbishop or the Church – – and you are doing both. There is nothing "apparent" in what the archbishop stated that would lead one to believe that death, starvation, radiation etc., as the result of war are not serious matters. The discussion of the article is not a question of which is worse: abortion or the results of war. If you would like to discuss that aspect, I'd be glad to do that – – but let's stick to the article. The Church has stated time and time again (and you should certainly know this if you're a Catholic and follow what's been going on in the world and in the Church) that the Church has always spoken out forcefully about the evils of an unjust war, and the people responsible will have to answer to God. In fact, the Church speaks out forcefully about any war, as you should know. So in an attempt to keep the discussion on the topic as my previous posting suggested, comparing abortion to war and suggesting that the this Archbishop values the lives of fetuses more than the lives of those who are slaughtered in wars is totally unjustified and as "wild" as your comments about Iran in your earlier posting. If you want a discussion on abortion, I'd be glad to take it up with you but please don't muddy the discussion with extraneous verbiage that reminds me of politicians in both parties :). Look forward to your reply to my previous posting!
You must be informed that taking the life of an INNOCENT human being directly from the womb is far different than wars, the death penalty, nukes, etc.
THINK for just one moment. If you cannot get out of the womb, can you be in a war, commit a capital crime, or get vaporized by a nuke?
Once out, the rules change drastically because of man's fallen nature – I know you don't believe this, so babies are at risk where you are concerned – got it!
Thank you, Greg. What some folk fail to realize is that it is the duty of clergy, ministers, and pastors to draw the line and confront hypocrites who proclaim the faith but don't live it. It is not a Democrat versus Republican issue – it's a human rights issue. People turn a blind eye to abortion because it's "legal" genocide – you never see the faces of the victims.
Holy cr@p, you have to be kidding me. "These people…force unwanted births on folks"????? Yeah, Catholics and Republicans are going around impregnating people, sometimes via r@pe, sometimes via their magic powers of legislative impregnation. What the h3ll are you smoking? Pregnancy is almost always the result of two consenting adults making the conscious decision to a) not use birth control, b) not pull out, c) put themselves in that situation in the first place. Really, what percentage of people who get pregnant do you actually believe didn't know that was a possibility beforehand?
But your follow up is priceless: "It becomes the mother and fathers responsibilty to provide proper health coverage." It becomes their responsibility the moment the pants come off. Who the h3ll should be responsible for a pregnancy created by two other people? My God, the gall of Catholics and Republicans to expect people not only to not kill babies they created but then to expect those same people to provide for them? That's crazy!
So, you don't think anyone's beliefs should be used to legislate anyone else's actions, huh? I'm sure there are plenty of people who think murder, r@pe, assault and theft are perfectly acceptable. I'd suggest you don't complain if any of those happen to you because then you'd be imposing your beliefs on someone else and as you stated, that's wrong.
If the Catholic Church owns property in the US (and they do) and if the Church, centrally or at the parish level, chooses to state that the members should vote for a particular candidate or party, then the Catholic Church as a whole should no longer be exempt from taxes.
If it were up to these guys we would still follow scientific models where the sun circles the Earth.
Thanks, but no thanks.
The article singles out two top leaders in the Democratic party, Catholics, it does not site Republicans because the ones who were involved in the discussion were not Catholic, and therefore not subject to Church Law. The Statement was issued by the Church, not one campaign or the other, go argue with the Vatican.
Abortion isn't legal genocide and should never be compared to it.
People have different views on the creation of life.
Some people believe life begins the very moment of conception, some like myself feel that true life doesn't begin until you are born into the world.
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
I'm sorry but unborn fetuses don't fall under that definition of genocide. It would be more accurately described as a medical act.
You might not agree with abortion, but to decry it as legalized genocide and force millions of others to obey your point of view is ignorant.
People need to quit trying to legislate religious beliefs and views and keep them to discussions with your church buddies.
You still don't get it.
I don't have ANY problem at all with the Archbishop 'correcting' the amoral misrepresentations of Catholic teaching by the Democrat politicians. In fact, I strongly agree with him and wonder what took him so long.
What I object to is the Archbishop's establishing of an absolute EQUIVALENCE between a political party's position on abortion ALONE as determining whether that party is a "party of life" or a "party of death": in favor of abortion= "party of death"; against abortion= "party of life"–irrespective of the party's positions which will likely lead to genocide as a result of war. [As far as I have been able to determine, the only real difference between Republicans and Democrats in the current election is the amount of TIME before the occurrence of the nuclear war: If McCain, then sooner; if Obama, then somewhat later (but probably only a few months). Their position vis-a-vis the Israel and Iran, for example is fundamentally identical.]
Furthermore, why does the Archbishop choose to make such a comment about abortion as, in some way, a *singular* evil (although I certainly sympathize with such a view), while failing to comment about the torture that has been committed by agents of the U.S. government, the 'rendition' of prisoners by the United States to countries that employ torture, or the slaughter of civilians in Lebanon and Gaza (by the Israel), Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan? Clearly, this "Vatican official" does not consider these subjects as being of sufficient *importance* to be able to characterize a party as being a "party of death". (Look at the role of Condoleezza Rice, for example, in the use of torture. And NO COMMENT from the Archbishop, as far as I know.)
He is, in fact, placing a *priority* upon abortion as worse than ANY other evil if he chooses that ONE criterion to characterize a party as a "party of death".
I can't see how there can be any reasonable escape from this conclusion.
Now, with regards to Iran, I don't particularly *care* (see my website) that my conclusions are not echoed by the Zionist mainstream media.
By censoring the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection", the Zionist media is doing EVERYTHING it can to incite WARFARE between the United States/the Israel and Iran.
My head is spinning! Last Sunday our parish hosted a lecture on "Faithful Citizenship" based on material published by the US Catholic Bishops that enumerate a whole set of issues including not only abortion but torture, genocide and fouling the planet upon which we all must survive–and clearly states that "Catholics must NOT be 'single-issue' voters".
Now, this guy gets up in front of God and everybody, with the microphone of ecclesial authority, and says this. Although the Church proudly proclaims its devine origin, sometimes it stumbles on the human frailty of its practical foundations. This would appear to be one of those times.
Abortion is a personal decision. And as a X Catholic, I know, the Catholic Church has never been comfortable with the concept of personal cholce and responsibility.
So, can someone remind me why the Catholic Church is still permitted to retain its non-profit status, in the face of its blatant political activity?
In general abortion is an extremely gray area. In regards to Dave's post: If the parents can't afford to have children, then maybe they should learn a little more constraint in the bedroom, or look into other preventative measures which would in the long run be cheaper. Of course, we could always look to Mr. Swift's solution to the problem and start eating babies after they are born. That should solve many of the world's starvation issues. Please note: This comment is made in the same tone as the original proposal put forth by Mr. Swift.
That being said, I will say that there are a couple of exceptions that should be made when deciding on the legality of abortion. One being impregnated by rape, another being health issues. Should a woman be raped and thereby concieve a child, it is unreasonable to as her to bear the fruits of the violation that was made against her. Also, should the life of a woman be threatened by the fetus, and the removal thereby save her life, it should be undertaken.
And I find it highly ironic that the security word that I had to type in to post this was "love".
So, can someone remind me why the Catholic Church is still permitted to retain its non-profit status, in the face of its blatant political activity?
– Posted by Doug Zeh
Where in this article did you see anything about the church telling people how to vote? It seems you don't believe in freedom of religion. You don't think the church should be allowed to state its position on "Catholics" who support abortion. Biden and Pelosi can vote however they want. Your implication that that somehow means the Church has to welcome them, otherwise lose their tax-exempt status shows just how asinine most liberal thinking is.
It's about the same as you claiming I've starved you because you're allergic to everything in my pantry. I'm not forcing you to eat at my house, but if you'd like to, you'll eat what I give you. Get it?
So should Obama's church lose its tax exempt status or do you only spew BS like that when it's a republican issue?
The exact qoute was that the party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues."
Bioethical issues would range far more than just abortion.
I think that the real issue for the bishop is the hypocrisy displayed by prominient Democratic Catholics, in that they claim to be devout Catholics, yet their policy dictates otherwise. It is unreasonable to believe that whatever eithics guide a Politician, (if any), is not in some way influenced by their personal religious choices. The bishop's declamation of the Democrat Catholics has more to do with church politics than anything else.
Church Views were distorted by individuals in high profile lifestyles(whom entire countries hear). The Vatican corrected the erroneous views of church doctrine, because those who distorted the Church standards were not likely to give explanation if corrected. They surely wouldn't recant as loudly as they gave their personal views. The church was wise to correct it personally and solidly. Agree or disagree with it, they have a right to correct misinformation that is aimed directly at them. "Every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment THOU shalt condemn".
Pro-life..yeah yeah yeah…but it's ok to support nazis, neofascists now a days, and r@pe little boys behind the altar. Oh! by the way…what happened to all the nuns who perform abortions in secret? I'm sure this is news to you.
I think many people are upset about these condescending comments by Mr. Burke because we know that the Catholic Church has no moral authority to even talk about these social issues.
Michael, I don't intend to repeat myself, my position re your extravagant out-of-the- ballpark postings is clear in my two previous postings. I do "get it"! Insofar as your most recent posting, let me try to make it simple so that you can "get it". The article that started this conversation should stand on its own. Here in plain view and in context is what the article stated about Archbishop Burke (direct quotes from the article):
1. U.S. Democratic Party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues."
2. He then attacked two of the party's most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.
3. He said Biden and Pelosi, "while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way."
4. Burke said pro-life Democrats were "rare" and that it saddened him that the party that helped "our immigrant parents and grandparents" prosper in America had changed so much over the years.
5. Burke's criticism isn't limited to Democrats. Last year, he accused singer Sheryl Crow of being "a high profile proponent of the destruction of innocent lives" for defending a woman's right to have an abortion and for being a proponent of stem cell research. He resigned as head of a children's medical charity that featured the singer for a benefit concert.
Now, Michael, without introducing your abortion/war arguments, just control yourself and let us know which of the 5 quotes above you don't agree with – – (and keep in mind it is this article that we are discussing)? It's as simple as that. As I indicated earlier, if you would like to discuss abortion vs. war, I will be happy to accommodate you. But please don't introduce and misrepresent both the Archbishop and the Church's statements and/or positions on abortion vs. war which are not even in the article nor do they exist. Do you get it?
This is just a ridiculous abuse of religious power. This person isn't even IN the United States of America. How does he get off bashing American politicians? They never made an oath to preach the gospel of the Catholic Church in their position of political authority. Please. This is just utter ridiculousness.
I agree with the vatican the democrats are evil demons that steal cheat and lie to get away with murder.
I agree with the vatican the democrats are evil demons that steal cheat and lie to get away with murder.
– Posted by tammy
Finally, someone who gets it.
Dear ProudProtestant,
The bishop is from St. Louis, i.e.: a United States city.
And Tammy dear, take a look at the Catholic Church's own history. Try at about 1100 AD through the Reformation. Very interesting politics, with many a murder and intrique, all bent on increasing the power and wealth of the Church. Not to mention the Babalonian Captivity, as well as that little period in which there were three popes all trying to wrest power from the others.
The Margaret Sanger project was indeed genocide. You need to do your research. In case you haven't noticed, white people don't murder as many of their offspring as other colors. See Planned Parenthood's own numbers – obvious!
Speaking of Sarah Palin, there are two questions I'd like to see put to Ms. Palin during Thursday's V.P. debate, or in her next interview (if she ever has another).
Actually, Gibson or Couric (let's forget Murdoch's "hired-hand Hannity") should have already asked these questions:
1.) Why did you as mayor of Wasilla force female rape-victims reporting the crime to pay out of their own pocket for the forensic-kit and exam needed in the work-up (see NYT 9/26/08)?
2.) Was your policy of requiring rape-victims to pay for their own forensic exams a result of your publicly stated belief that even women who become pregnant as a result of rape should be required to carry that pregnancy to full term and birth?
I see no reason why Palin, as candidate for the office of Vice President of the USA, and with a 1 in 3 chance of taking over as President in the next 4 years, should continue to be shielded from answering these questions publicly.
I'd also be interested in Archbishop Raymond Burke's position on these two questions.
His intervention for the Republican Party in this election reminded me of another Church figure, Cardinal Spellman, who in the early 1960's put pressure on politicians to back the corrupt Diem Regime in South Vietnam with more troops. That advice was followed, and ultimately resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese lives.
How many lives will be lost when McCain bombs Iran, and with what will follow that action?
Respect for life – really? Hardly.
I'm not even Catholic but i ssy right on here ..it's about time a staunch approach is taken against the party that would like to see America brought to its knees.
I'm sorry. Well not really. But if you believe that life truly begins at birth, then you must think it's o.k. to kill a baby while the mother is in labor right? Isn't that right Dave? Which is it? A fetus? Or a 7 pound, 8 ounce baby in the birth canal? It's o.k. to murder them?
If you want, we can nevermind religion for a moment. How about basic morality that you may have been associated with (giving the benefit of the doubt here) at an early age and now have obviously dismissed as irrational? I'm curious.
Not only are the Democrats the party of death and in bed with planned parenthood, all you pro-choice Catholic Democrats need to look into the history of planned parenthood and it's founder association with the KKK (she spoke at a KKK rally) Don't take my word for it, read and educate youself left-wing moonbats. Democrats crack me up as they try to paint Repubs as not caring for the poor, yet they continue to condone infanticide of millions (15 million and counting since roe v wade)of innocent defenseless unborn babies. Is there anything sicker than this?
One only needs to read the comments posted here to have a clear understanding of everything that is amiss in the world today. It is mindblowing that so many people can actually compare the brutal slaughter of innocent children to any kind of war. But, just for the sake of argument, lets go with that for a moment. Using this logic, executing innocent children would still be wrong because in the United States alone, there have been more deaths from executing children (49 million plus) than from all of the world's wars combined! Which just goes to show that it's not about what is right, and it never has been, it is about men and women humping like animals in a free and unrestrained manner – with no consequences for their sin.
Thank God somebody in the Catholic church is speaking up about this issue! What they should do is publicly excommunicate every prochoice politician.
The Catholic church has the worst leadership of any organization I know of. They need to stop being so timid and do their job and their main job is to defend the faith. For a start reissue that letter written by pope Benedict.
Where's the call to take away the tax exempt status of say the Black Churches when they express their political beliefs? The Catholic Church has just as much right to preach to its members as any other organization has to preach to its members. Has Tom Bellhouse, above, complained about the revolt of the Pastors who are defying the IRS by exercising their Freedom of Speech? I don't know what it is about the Catholic Church, but people will go absolutely bonkers when the Church speaks up about anything. Like in the detective programs on TV – the guilty ones are the ones who yell their innocence the loudest. Hey, the pro choice would like to make everyone pro choice so what's wrong with the pro lifers wanting to make everyone pro lifers?
It speaks about the misinterpretation of catholic belief by some-one who claims themselves as true catholics or representatives of catholics .There is nothing wrong in archbishop Burke coming out strongly against these people,who support stem cell research and abortion.
Ummmm anyone who says "the poor people who are forced to take care of this kid they never wanted" don't seem to understand…IF YOU DON'T WANT A CHILD AND CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF ONE, DON'T HAVE SEX!!!! How idiotic do you hav to be? SEX=KID. Even with condoms, the pill, the nuva ring, pull and pray…you can still have a kid. If you aren't ready for a kid, and cant afford to have a kid, don't have sex. Simple. Short. Consise. The choice to have sex, comes with the possible outcome of having a kid. Biology, learn it and live it.
Mother Church has a problem with war too if you'd care to study the issue prior to handing down your diatribes. This article simply focuses on the abortion issue. Have you not heard of "Just War Theory" and the Church's denunciation of the Bush Doctrine? The difference is that the abortion issue touches upon the dogmatic whereas the just war issue touches upon the mere personal philosophy of the Pope.
And really… Is there truly a comparison to be made between Radical Antisemitism at the Nation-State level and the fate of an unborn child..? Who needs more protection..? Why Iran of course (sic).
The article is about abortion not nuclear war. Well over a million have been killed by abortion. If I'm not mistaken the demos dropped the bombs on Japan(nuclear), started WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Wars. I know we didn't actually start WWII, Korea, Or Vietnam but the demos seem to forget who was in power. As a former demo I remember and if our current history books were accurate we would all remember.
In reply to tommy when will the obama man actually have to answer questions. The only questions he answers are softball questions from friendly newspeople. Even O'Reily was kind to him–I guess you have to take his affirmative action education into account. You don't get to yell racist at the world when the going gets tough.
[…] Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi ? for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion. con't @ Reuters ========== So-called Catholic politicians that vote pro-choice are not Catholics, but, rather, […]
The whole, then don't have kids debate is non-sensical and only applies to those who were irresponsible in their lives.
It completely leaves out rape victims, instances where the birth could lead to the death of the mother, and yes accidents DO happen and there in lies my point.
If a woman and man choose to have sex, do so with protection, and yet still end up pregnant it is an accident. Should they be forced to bear this child that they had attempted to prevent from happening in the first place?
Is it your or anyone else's choice what that woman decides to do in her life?
Is it not she and she alone who must deal with her decision and the reprecussions of said decision?
Nate, acting like those who don't want kids should never have sex in the first place is idiotic. That thinking will NEVER work. It's the whole abstinence argument all over again. We are human, we enjoy sex and we will continue to enjoy and have it and it will never be something that is ONLY for procreation. It's admirable if you live that way, however it's ignorant to expect the billions of other humans to follow your example.
I myself had a child very young that I was unprepared for and had no intentions of having at the time. The condom broke and now he's 8. We made a choice to live with our mistake. That was our choice to make though, and not something I would have wanted forced on us.
Just as we chose to have the baby, another couple may choose to have an abortion or to give the baby up for adoption. That is their right to make that choice and no one should force any one decision on them.
OK Dave,
So if I come over to your house and shoot you in the head, that's ok right – because we wouldn't want to impose the 'religious' view that murder is not ok on anyone.
Last time I checked most people I know were firmly in favor of having laws against murder, and abortion is absolutely the physical act of murder of a defenseless child.
First, There are those who say you should not mix religion with politics or you should not force your religious/political views on person. The irony in this does not go unnoticed. Religion is the biggest contributing factor to shaping a persons opinion. Allow me to repeat that, "Religion is the biggest contributing factor to shaping a persons opinion." Should I do as several people state and refrain from voicing my religious beliefs then I also refrain from voicing my opinion. I am also being asked not to vote, but yet if I don't vote then I would be told to shut-up because I did not vote; essentially placing me in a Catch-22. The irony is that those who tell me to keep my religion, or beliefs, to myself are the very ones forcing their belief, or religion, on me. In other words you wish for me to remain silent while you shout from the top of the hills your beliefs, because you fear opposition, to lazy to take a stand, or possible fear your whole world will crumble if you discover the information you have is unable to stand using logic.
Second, There seem to be a lot of people that are experts on Catholicism; but hardly any who actually practice the faith. So many people here are up in arms and spewing unintelligent, misinformed information about the Catholic Faith, Christianities oldest denomination (read your history if you doubt this). The Church holds that ALL life is precious, just like God does, and that everyone is capable of redemption no matter how serious the sin is, just like God does. My thoughts were like many of those who think they know Catholicism, and all those thoughts were developed from people who were not Catholic or had some kind of selfish grudge against the Church; but it was not until I met a Catholic who really understood their faith and patiently explained it to me. Through my process of converting and even to this day I experience a lot of pain and suffering, but I have yet to find anything that is as comforting, beautiful, and peaceful as what has been passed from our Lord to His Church. Please, speak with an educated mind and not one that is derived from idiocy.
Third, Abortion is the action of taking a human life. If you can not see this then it is because you chosen a selfish nature for sexual pleasure. Whether it is for yourself or the couple that already has four kids and can not afford a fifth one. The true is abortion is being used as a means of birth control so people can have sex without worrying about the consequences of their action. Besides the religious reasons, a person should abstain from sex if they are unwilling to accept the responsibilities of raising a child. It is through lust, that a person cultivates and feeds, a person becomes a slave to the sexual impulses. You say kill the baby that is growing inside the woman because you are unable to except the what you helped create; I say abstain from sex so the choice does not need to be made. For those who say that life does not begin until after birth I would love to sit down discuss why you have chosen this position, to hear what you have to say and try to understand why you think that way, for what how has the baby changed from the time before birth to the time after birth?
Fourth, Should tax exemption be revoked from religious organization? No, It is called the first amendment for it allows the freedom of speech and religion. In the case described in this article the Church has performed the correct action. The politicians that claim to be Catholic but continue to speak publicly against the doctrines of the their faith should be corrected, and efforts were made to correct them in private as well as general statements made public by the Vatican regarding the Churches stance. These same people that claim to be Catholic simple do so receive the votes of Catholics; therefore, the Church has a duty to call out publicly those that are misleading the faithful without recourse.
Remember if there is no God then how can person claim to be an atheist for an atheist denies the existence of God, so God has to exist in order for an atheist to deny His existence.
It is so predictable to see people change the subject when abortion is the issue. You wonder why they need to do that. My theory is that they vote for "pro-choice" candidates and have a hard time rationalizing their vote with their religious beliefs.
[quote : start]
My head is spinning! Last Sunday our parish hosted a lecture on "Faithful Citizenship" based on material published by the US Catholic Bishops that enumerate a whole set of issues including not only abortion but torture, genocide and fouling the planet upon which we all must survive–and clearly states that "Catholics must NOT be 'single-issue' voters".
Now, this guy gets up in front of God and everybody, with the microphone of ecclesial authority, and says this. Although the Church proudly proclaims its devine origin, sometimes it stumbles on the human frailty of its practical foundations. This would appear to be one of those times.
– Posted by Art Marriott
[quote : end]
You are mixing two subjects that should be kept separate, but when we vote we are asked to view everything in priority; so legalizing abortion would take precedence over legalizing the selling of sex.
The Archbishop is actually doing his duty by addressing those who publicly proclaim to be Catholic but speaking out publicly against the teachings of the Church. Your comment makes the statement that when one official speaks out against a contradiction to the doctrines of out faith they should address all of them at the same time. This is a ridiculous claim and not feasible for as soon as a person started talking everyone would run.
Reading all these comments I forgot we were talking about gov't sanctioned killing of unborn kids. I think they use a vacuum cleaner to suck them out piece by piece, and then throw them in the garbage.
Just do not know how anyone would think this was a good idea, but hey were all different.
If you believe life begins at conception then the unborn have US constitutional rights.
Wonderful article, prayer does work!!! My faith is far more important than partisan political doctrine from the left.
Abortion is murder for convenience sake, there can be no other interpretation, not in God's or Man's eyes. Margarette Sanger established Planned Parenthood as a means of practicing eugenics in America. Her goal was to reduce the number of African-Americans, which she considered a degenerate race. Abortion equates with genocide, in principle and practice. The "right to choose" (to murder one's fetus) was also seen as a the means for women to partake in casual sex without consequences. This "right" was mistakenly thought to elevate a woman's sexual status to equal that of men – who can have sex without concern of pregnancy. However, the psychological damage of "abortion guilt" was not accounted for. That guilt, preys on a woman's subconscious, and results in the emotional reaction we see to pro-life advocates, such as Sarah Palin, et al. Naturally, this condition also transfers to certain irresponsible and infantile libertine men who desire promiscuous sex without commitment. Abortion allows these men to transfer all prophylactic and birth control responsibility to the woman. Abortion is but another degradation heaped upon women for the benefit of the immoral or emotionally disturbed class.
How many fetuses have vowed to exterminate 5 million people as Iran's leader has?
PREVENTING that extermination is not a nobel cause?
The party of death. Yes, but why do Democrats take a Pro-Abortion position? It is puzzling. Even when a women's "choice" is Life for the innocent, they oppose an demonize those that do. Democrats choose life for the guilty (no death penalty) and life for the monsters (tyrants and dictators that provoke war. Their position makes no sense to an individual. Of course, the individual is not important unless it is supporting the state.
You folks are WAY LATE in this summation! The Demonrats have been the death party for over 50 years!!Not only just abortion,they gave away half of Europe to the murderous communists! They gave away Cuba to the murderous communists,ditto Viet Nam,almost Nicaragua,Haiti,they chose Mao over Chang ka Shek-the agrarian farmer,kiss Hugo Chavez'rasberries,etc ad nauseum.The Dimbulb-o-rats consider LIFE EXACTLY like the Chinese do!
I'm glad Archbishop Burke is forcefully enunciating Church doctrine on bioethical issues. Too many Catholic legislators are claiming that their informed Catholic consciences allow them to be for abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and euthanasia. They've not been challenged until now, perhaps because none of them have publicly enunciated the false reasoning which led them to their conclusion. The misrepresentation of Saint Augustine's views by Pelosi and Biden were, I think, the last straws. To have high ranking Catholic politicians misstating Catholic theology as put forth by a Doctor of the Church just begged for correction.
I'm glad it's come. These people need to get a copy of the Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and sit down (preferably with a study group at their local parish) and begin to truly understand the faith of their fathers.
EXCELLENT. Now, when will the excommunications start???
Pregnancy is always a possible consequence of sex when a woman is of childbearing age. Even if you favor abortion, why should that right be absolute? How can anyone justify a late abortion? Yet, the pro-choicers were vehemently opposed to the Partial Birth Abortion ban. How also can anyone morally justify abortions because a child will be born with Down Syndrome or other birth defects? What does that have to do with a woman's right to choose? The woman in such cases presumably chose to carry a "perfect" child to term. Does the right to choose extend to a woman's right to choose to have a child without birth defects (or the wrong sex, which happens in China and India)?
Anyone who presents themselves as ardent Catholics and then tries to misrepresent Church teachings to justify
their position is the worst kind of hypocrite. The Democrat party is host to several prominent such people,
Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, the Cuomos, father and son.
Itis unfotunate that they value their power more than their souls and defy the verdict that they should not receive the Eucharist.
They think that smarter than the Pope and the Bishops and they can do as they please. However, they would do well to mind the words of Jesus Himself, who said to Peter
"whose sins you bind on earth shall be bound also in Heaven"
The Pope, as herder of the flock of followers has not only the right, but the obligation to make sure the church followers are not violating the teachings of Jesus Christ as Son of God. He is not addressing or forcing non church members to abide by the church laws. Pelosi, Biden and Kennedy profess to be church members of the Catholic Faith.
The Bishops serve are arms of the Pope. Therefore any person who professes to believe in God and is a member of the church must follow the teachings of the church or face refusal of the church sacraments. It just so happens that it is the Democrat Party with Ms Pelosi and Mr Biden who are blaspheming the church by false statements. So yes the Democrat party is the party of Death in America, with over 40,000,000 babies, yes that is correct, over 40 million babies murdered under the disguise of Choice in the last ten years. Yes, 7 babies killed a second, mostly by middle class whites and thousands per year were 3rd and 4th abortions. So bad that the DNC sued with ACLU to stop record keeping of the just lazy birth control methods. And then the DNC makes such a fuss about deaths defending the freedoms of America!! What most people do not know is the abortion doctor performs the operation for 200 dollars and then sells the aborted babies to Embroy Stem Cell research labs for upwards of 2,000 dollars. Abortion on Demand is a Business of Death supported by the Democrat Party of Death in United States of America.
Really, the country is facing multi-generational issues on many fronts – The Church should teach as is its right and obligation but not weigh into politics over the heads of its lay faithful who have the duty and obligation to make prudential judgements in the secular political world. There are so many ways to preach but the finest is done with the life of the preacher. Unfortunately the Church has lost a lot of credibility because of the many scandals that they allowed to happen. So let the Bishops do their work in building up the Church and if they do their job, the laity will build a polity according to just principles.
As far a criticizing Nancy Pelosi who raised her children before becoming a politician. Or Joseph Biden, who is a family man himself. Anyone who has lived in the disfunctional American Catholic church for the past 45 years and should be applauded for staying in and not criticized for living their life according to their conscience.
Maybe the Bishops should listen to ST. Francis of Assisi who told his brothers to 'Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words' – with emphasis on teaching by their lives not their words.
This is an article on abortion–not on "choice". Any thinking person believes that Hitler's murder of 6 million innocent Jews was a monstrous crime against humanity. There have been over 44 million murders–abortions–of innocent babies–not "fetusus"–in the U.S.A. in the last 40 years. How many more murders will it take until "thinking" liberals believe that too many have died for convenience's sake?
The religious position is correct–regardless of one's belief in God or not. And any Christian who stands before God on the final day will have a very hard time explaining their support of abortion–and their voting for candidates who support and / or this horror.
I will not vote for a candidate who supports abortion–I am afraid of Hell.
Rocketman El Paso, Tx, U.S.A.
Biden's statement that he would not legislate his religious views on others is simple-minded bunk. Simply stated, the laws against murder are based upon moral foundations. This is no less true of the law against abortion. The active, intentional, or negligent killing of another human being is wrong. Period. And, that is not imposing any one religion on another person. It is the essence of providing for the peace of society and the security of each person. The kid in the womb of a mother is not a blob of flesh subject to whim and fancy, but a human being with rights.
The Catholic church has never expected that 1 billion human beings are all going to be perfectly abstinant and follow the teachings of Jesus. That is why the church has the sacrament of penance. People are going to sin and the church knows this and make no excuses for it. But the teachings of Jesus are what they are. It is hypocritical, when a public official makes a point to let the public know that he is a member of the Catholic (meaning 'universal') church, but somehow doesn't feel like their beliefs extend to the entire human population; then, what do they really believe? And why are they bothering to label themselves as Catholic?
Roe vs Wade decriminalized abortion for the Doctor, never made it OK for the Mother to Murder her baby. The Christian church teaches life starts at the moment of conception. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. Aborting the baby is murder, goes against thou shall not kill. I nor anyone else will say Joe Biden or Ms Pelosi are doomed to hell. Just that they are trying to tell the sheep that the Catholic Church DOES NOT TEACH LIFE BEGINS AT MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. This is blasphemy and must be dealt with. One does not have to say Democrat Party of Death,
one only has to say Party of Death. Then one asks, what Party condones Abortion? Dah. is not Independents, is not Green, is not Republicans, etc, only one left is Democrat. Look at their party platform. Listen to Cathy Couric asking Sarah Palin? One does not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out which Party is the party of Death!! Does not just apply to babies either. How about the little gal on life support in Florida the Republicans could not get Democrat support to stop the Court ordered execution? You remember Schiavo feeding tube removal in 2005? But at the same time Democrats with try to stay the jury ordered execution of a multi person murderer, don't make logical sense at all.
I will never forget Gore lawyer at the Florida Supreme Court arguing "Who is listening to the voices of the Hanging Chats", and I thought "who is listening to the voices of the little baby about to be killed by abortion on demand". 40 million babies aborted in ten years is just crazy. And is in America founded for LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Is a Farce.
If you take a political job such as senator, governor, representative, mayor, president, vice president, ANY appointed spot, you are agreeing to represent the people who elected you and not your church or your religious views.
The seperation of church and state was created for a few reasons. One was to allow freedom of religion and a state sponsored religion would be in direct contrast with freedom of religion.
It is quite fine for the church to spread it's beliefs and values. That's part of the religious freedom we ALL enjoy.
However it is a seperate issue entirely when politicians begin legislating their religious doctrines on an entire society of people. By accepting office, these politicians are affirming that they will seperate their religion from their civic duties.
Whether you like it or not abortion is wholly a religious/moral debate, and not everyone is in agreeance.
You have the freedom of choice to not ever take part in the practice you deem un-holy and evil, so you've already made your decisions. But don't get all savior and believe you need to make abortions illegal. Let God judge those people that choose to make that choice, since it's a sin and all and only God can judge.
And what's funny is how the Church is so against abortions because they are supremely pro-life. What's so hysterical about that is that the Church is responsible for more death over the last few thousand years than any other institution.
Look up all the religious wars that have claimed millions of lives. From the Crusades to modern day, war and death created in the name of God, Allah, and other religions haven taken a huge toll on human life.
[…] Reuters.com […]
Michael Cecil your just like the standard punched out cookie dough liberial.. when you cant defend a position just on its own merits you have to go into the atmosphere and pull down some well spun correlation. the fact is that liberial as a fact will fight visously to save the life of a violent killer… but applaud the right to end the life of infant that has no voice. they end the life so that they wont have to be responsible for thier actions… the one that will be responsible for that action is ironically the one that had no voice for their action… you and those who believe like you are not progressive… but canine
Scientists know when life begins in the womb so that's no longer an excuse.
At this very moment, babies are being partially delivered, having their brains suctioned out, heads crushed, and being delivered dead. Many of them would be fully funtional babies and could grow up to be wonderful people.
In this country, abortions are done in which babies are born alive and left to die. Ask any nurse who works where abortions are performed.
You are voting for a man who has voted to support all of this without a blink.
Give this more than a thought if you are able.
Religious people, including priests and pastors, have every right – check the Constitution – to discuss religious beliefs wherever they wish. You just don't like what they are saying. My pastor can't MAKE me vote for anyone, but he has a right to talk about elections issues and the positions that he believes in. Otherwise, you are removing his rights. Is that okay with you too?
The people who wrote the Constituion knew that religion was very necessary to society. Check their letters – there is lots of history out there about their beliefs.
this whole system of the world smells of death
but how dare the vatican talk any way what about the
sixty eight million jews they put to death
and there evil venom doctrine that poisens peoples minds
to believe a lie and be damned by it.
I guess he's just upset because the more abortions, the less toddles there are for him to molest.
Democrats who are Roman Catholic and approve of gay marriage and abortion are really not Christian in the opinion of the Roman Catholic Church.
They have chosen a political party over their own beliefs and greed. They will regret it when their time comes.
I was raised Roman Catholic and the Church has every right to say one party is the "party of death." However, if they want to press it as an election issue and thereby support one party over another, they should lose their tax exempt status.
Liberals try to sidetrack the truth with idiotic sidebars about war. What Bishop Burkd is referring to the doctrine of the Catholic church with respest to when life begins. We hold that life begins at conception, something which Joe Biden states that he believes also. Pelosi has no idea what she is taling about, trying to refer to St. Augustine. Where is her degree in theology. This truth has existed in the faith for 2000 years. If you cannot respect life at it most elemental, what good are all your so-called programs. Also, I think it shows a degree of arrogance to want to kill a child, while you so smugly enjoy your own existence. Whether you will admit it or not, Barack Obama fought the bill that would aid those children born as a result of a botched abortion. He promotes infanticide, not a very messianic stance to take.
Also, you need to speak to those children who find out that their sibling(s) was aborted. They wonder, why not me?
It is NOT the woman's body. She is carrying a body within. These arguments are a case of misguided compassion. The situation of Down's Syndrome children was brought to light in an episode of Quincyt ME, A doctor allowed a Down's Syndrome child to die in this episode, and Dr. Quincy discovered that it was an abvious case of murder. In this episode there were children with that syndrome, acting and it was brought to light that they are not only trainable, but educable as well. Life goes on had a Down's Child who was mainstremed in school and played a character named Corky Thatcher. These children are loving, and good-natured and have a RIGHT TO LIFE!! Trouble is that feminists don't want to be bothered. Don't want that less thsn perfect child. Baby Louise, the test tube baby blew a big part of Roe V. Wade, because she proved that the fertilized egg could be viable in a test tube as opposed to the womb. That was a huge point in R V W., fetal viability. It is easy to be smug when your parent chose your life.
And, just for your information the Vatican spoke out against the Iraq war.
[…] So says former St. Louis Archbisop Raymond Burke, now with the Vatican: Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican's Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues." He then attacked two of the party's most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion. […]
Part of the scandals of the Church arose out of the 60s and being told by the APA (American Psycholigical Association) that behaviors could be rehabilitated. Why do you think that we are still fighting against sexual predators. Just look at the issues with Vermont not passing Jessica's law.
Plus let us put abortion into a more recognizable perspective. Take the Kennedy family for example. Their sister Rosemary was born simple, I hate the word retarded. Her father had her lobotomized and made things much worse. Yet, she did give joy to her family in her simplicity. What if Rose Kennedy took the option to abort her, knowing how her daughter would suffer.
Segue to John F. Kennedy. His Addison's disease was kept a secret. We now have ways to identify the gene that identifies the disease. If Joe and Rose Kennedy knew, and that the disease would elaborate at the age of 13 in John Kennedy, they might have chosen to abort him, so that he would not have to suffer. And, lastly Ted Kennedy, the ninth child. What if Rose said to Joe, "We already have 8 kids and I don't want another baby, I am getting too old, don't want morning sickness, don't want to get fat again. Then, where would we be?
Abortion is just a matter of women, relegating their children to the nature of a product. The abortion result is referred to as the products of conception, no Janey, Tiffany, Dave, but a product. And they are referred to as "Therapeutic abortions". How is saline burning a child, therapeutic? And for whom? Or, shredding the curretage through curretage? The neural tube is developed in the 1th week. I gurantee you that the child feels pain. Plus partial-birth abortion. The child is delivered breach, feet first, which is a way that many woman died in childbirth in the past. Then the child in removed and the brain is crushed. Pleasant, huh.
Women need to grow up and afford their children the same rights that they fought for. That screeching argument that it is my body is idiotic. The whole thing in a nutshell is that they do not WANT the child. The sexual revolution of the 60s had led to irresponsible adults. we went from a mere 5 STDs to a whopping 28! For those of you: that is sexually transmitted diseases. How about teaching your children some personal responsibility? How about the baby boomers getting off the acid and acting more mature.
After 9/11, people went back to Church because they found solace in their faith. Maybe we need to act like every day is 9/11, because you never know when you are going to need God.
This is my problem with organized religion. You must accept dogma or you really aren't a real or practicing member of that faith. Given the Catechism of the Catholic church is about two inches thick (last I saw it) that is a lot to swallow while suspending your own mental processes.
When are we going to quit letting everyone else (church, government, commercials with lots of boobies etc., corporations, political parties) do all of our thinking for us?
Personally I think the people singled out should simply quit the Church. Much cleaner and more honest.
If people can start leaving unwanted babies at church doors knowing they'll be taken in and fed, go for it.
You think you can force Mommy and Daddy to take good care of a child if they do not wish to do so?
Unfortunatly, more cases that not, what will happen is that the child will be murdered by their parents after a while anyway.
No? What parent could do that? Children are killed by parents every day… Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four.
So make them give birth and give them the choice to sin first.
Homicide is one of the leading causes of death of children under age four.
John Adams said it best
"Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
It is both a good thing and a sad thing that the Catholic Church speaks alone on moral ssues when there is a deafening silence from all other quarters. Killing a child because you cannot enact enough self control or have such a lax moral compass is beyond discusting. People in the country want to scream about freedom but are silent and resentful of the tradeoff that must occour, responsibility.
[…] then there was more: Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican's Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, […]
Same argument was used to justify slavery.
The "I'm personally against it, but I can't impose my views on those who do" is getting old – centuries old.
At least they dont choose child molesters and rapists over their victims.
At best he is nothing more than a hypocrite.
So, how about this: let's actually implement Catholic social teaching across the board and not just on abortion ?
For libs this means no abortion, no gay rights
For cons this means no big military all over the world just one at home for defense, no executions and tax rates plus government intervention in the market like nobody's business in the name of social justice.
For all no sex outside of marriage, no contraceptives plus a return to the office of the censor and the guardian of the public morals to make sure that all media and arts pass moral muster. In addition, say bye bye to sunday shopping. You will be searched for porn and contraceptives on the way into the country, mass will be televised at least once a week, catholic church figures will be major celebrities and appear on the serious talk shows, and the angelus will be on thrice daily at the appropriate times. Why we might even estabilish facilities where the wayward women could work off their sins in this life….
How many of you want to sign up for all of this because this is what it means to live in a fully Catholic country ?
If we are to implement Catholic social teaching, let's implement it wholesale or leave it out totally.
Nice, lots of 'intellectuals' on this thread. The absurdity of comments from both sides is pretty high. I'm glad the average 'internet messenger' doesn't represent the views of average Americans.
Interesting… Somehow the Vatican is able to overlook the party that lied us and our allies into a senseless war that killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and thousands of Americans and coalition troops… Yet it's the Democrats that they choose to demonize.
The anti-Catholic lies in these posts are appalling-especially in regard to the Holocaust. If they bothered to read books, like historian, Rabbi David Dalin's book on Pope PiusXII and how the Church SAVED thousands of Jews from the Nazi's. But I guess it's easier to check scan those Jack Chikk tracts anti Catholic websites for their sources.
I never thought I'd live to see the day when the RCC actually started censuring American Catholic politicians for ignoring RCC doctrine. It looks like our new Pope Benedict has the spine that I kept thinking that the last one would find. I'm Lutheran, not Catholic, but good on him all the same. It's about time the RCC started cleaning house. It will be better for it.
Why doesn't the one true cult excommunicate these politicians then? Are they leaders of the one true fairy tale cowards?
Nothing angers a Democrat more than someone exposing their true views on an issue…
Two incredibly difficult and morally challenging issues: abortion and embryo research.
In response, what do you get from Democrats? A mantra (It's just a choice…It's just a choice…It's just a choice…)
When you crush a 7 month-old baby's skull and then use a vaccuum to pull his body out of his mother's womb, that's not a "choice."
When you leave a helpless infant who has just survived an abortion lying in a linen closet, slowly dying, alone and unloved, that's not a "choice."
In our hearts we all know what it is.
It's pure evil.
And it's THE DEFINING POSITION of the left's choice for president: Barack Obama.
Nice to see the hopelessly partisan bigots are out in force.
Abortion is prohibited clearly by the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on human life. Support for at-will abortion is seen as a clear moral violation without room for differing opinions on the life or value of an unborn child. It is an issue restricted exclusively to Faith and Morals.
War is not. The invasion of Afghanistan was not protested by the Vatican. The Holy See did venture forth a geo-political opinion that war against Saddam Hussein did not meet the criteria of a just war. It was not, however, judged to be a clear moral violation and Catholics are understood to have differing opinions on the Geo-Political realities leading up to operation Iraqi Freedom (rather than Faith and Morals).
As long as the Democratic Party puts Abortion-at-Will as a plank on its platform it will have to deal with the scorn of the Roman Catholic Church and the Church's rebukes against politicians who claim to be Catholic and then misrepresent Church Teachings on Abortion or vote contrary to the moral stance of the Church on Abortion.
I look at it as one less dem in the world.
Sometimes I wonder why I am not Catholic. Their leaders take stands on issues that some protestants would not touch. I respect them for standing up for Church doctrine.
I think it is a shame that such hateful speech is tolerated. I cannot wait until we can put these people, and the Republicant's into internment camps for re-education when Obama wins next month.
Our country will be perfect when will elminate the ones who spread hate, and try to undermine our values from abroad.
Abortion will go down in history as a crime against humanity, worse than any other. To destory a human in it's own motehr's womb is the height of terror.
Peaceful purposes Mike? I have some beachfront property for sale in Colorado, interested?
Is it so hard to either keep it in your pants, keep it out of your pants, put on a sheath, or pop a pill – instead of killing a kid? What the hell is the matter with people? Why not just kill anybody cause you are lazy? WTF people!
Wow, there are some great responses in here, especially for a link from the drudge report. I never thought I'd here about "Corky" again. My favorite episode was when he was a rapper and he sang, "Fight The Power," by Public Enemy. Corky rules
Catholic Leadership is asleep at the altar. 35 YEARS of this outright friend of satan feed, and now they dibble babble, "Scussey, scussey pweaze. Um, maybe, if it would be all right with you all, could we probably, suggest we might ask that you think about maybe not or maybe so, auh, well, its just that Catholics aren't supportive of abortion, and maybe, you as a strong Catholic politician who votes in favor of every murder stateside and beyond in the womb war, shhhhhh, did I say …..? well, just think about it."
Yeah, we got 'cha, C-Leadership. JOKE!!! Thanks for NOTHING! Lord Have Mercy on Us ALL. Over It!
Thank God for ArchBishop Burke!!! It is wonderful to see
a Bishop speak out and defend Church teaching – especially to defend Our Lord in the Eucharist. We are seeing now that more and more Cardinals, Bishops, etc. are speaking out because of the courageous stand of this Bishop, one of the heroes of out time!
I am always amazed by those who say it is wrong or unethical to legislate ones' religous views on others, and then equate that with being opposed to legalized abortion. Abortion is not a religious issue, any more than burglary, assault and battery, or perjury are religious issues. Yes, the Bible teaches "Thou shalt not lie" and "Though shalt not steal." But that doesn't mean that theft and perjury should be legal – beause we don't want to "legislate" our "religious views" on others.
Abortion involves the taking of a human life. This is not a matter fo faith, but of scientific fact. just what, if not a human being, is the offspring of two human beings, created by procreation? It is not a "fetus" – it is a human being. It simply makes us feel less guilty calling unborn life a "fetus" – and it also helps that we do not actually see the child. That is precisely why those who support legalized abortion are so angry when photos of an abortion are publicized.
If a human being is legally declared dead when there is the absence of brainwaves and a heartbeat, why is a human being – who is growing and replicating cells – and has a heartbeat and brainwaves, not considered a human being simply because the child is in a mother's womb?
When someone has sexual intercourse, they are inviting life to start and take hold. To allow the unborn child to be killed, because the child represents an inconvenience to those who sought the gratification of sex, is the epitome of evil. It is akin to child sacrifice at the alter of hedonism. We want to engage in sex without consequences. So, we call a living child a "fetus" and pretend it's really just a "religious" issue. Being against abortion is no different than being against any other form of murder. By making murder illegal, we are not imposing a religious view on society – we are protecting innocent life. The same is true on the abortion question.
So, when someone like Biden says they are "personally opposed to abortion," it begs the question – "why?" If it truly represents the taking of human life, then you should not simply be against it "personally," you should adamantly demand that your government protect the innocent life.
Again, this isn't a religious issue. It is a matter of fact and logic. And the phrase "abortion is murder" is not an article of faith – but simply a statement of fact.
He's only pointing out was is obvious to a lot of people.
It's impossible to be anything other than a hypocrite when you are anti-war, anti-death penalty but pro-abortion.
All of the world's wars, plus all of it's executions, in a year don't even add up to the number of kids that we murder in this country alone.
Republicans are also hypocrites when they support the aforementioned policies but they're not even close to the amount of blood that the Democrats are swimming in.
…the fact that Democrats "celebrate" this and call it a "right" is all the more disturbing.
For those catholics out there….YOU CAN'T BE BOTH A CATHOLIC AND PRO CHOICE….If you want to be pro-choice, leave the catholic church
Hey Michael Cecil, at least Republicans allow everybody a chance to be born, grow up, and then become a terrorist before wiping them off the face of the earth.
Democrats prefer murder in the womb, where you can't hear the baby screaming. As long as you can't HEAR the screams, its not really a baby at all.
Well it is about time these robed wonders show they have balls.. and not to little boys
So many things to address. Many people think taking religion out of society would bring peace. Look at Pol Pot, Stalin, Idi Amin. If you look at your own personal life, you do not live up to the standards you profess. You have lied, cheated, protected yourself for your own aims. This is what is known as "sin". The catholic church is absolutely in it's rights to point out that those who support abortion, support murder.
As far as a church losing it's "tax status", read the first admendment and you will see that Congress cannot interfere with the church. Also, the church answers to God. If you find that hard to swallow I would encourage you to look into the history of our country and see how many of the founders were ministers, held seminary degrees, that the Bible was used as a text book in schools, that the universities were based on the Bible.
To become more informed, I would encourage you to read the works of David Barton, historian. Or, check out www.wallbuilders.com
good for him. i am glad to see someone speaking out about the Democrats. the party has changed.
I hope the democrats take a lesson from this. They are full of hate, greed and operate out of spite.
I know many democrats and republicans and I believe republican moral standards are by far more spiritual.
Amendment 1 of The United States Constitution states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of people peacably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Nowhere in the United States Constitution is the mention of "separation of church and state". That phrase and "freedom of religion". are in the Federalist's Papers. Nowhere is it stated "freedom from religion'.
Please tell me how Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Hillary, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Barack Obama can go into black churches and preach their politics, but a priest cannot condemn Catholic politicians who violate the tenets of the Church, yet want to partake in the sacraments.
Murder of the unborn my be legal, but is still murder. Abortion is an act that haunts a woman for life.
The Church's position on abortion is clear, and abortion is a non-negotiable issue to practicing Catholics who follow Church doctrine. Democrats can't have it both ways. They are either pro life, in which case I as a Catholic can vote for them, or they are pro abortion, in which case I absolutely cannot vote for them. Either way is fine. What they can't do is restate Catholic doctrine in an effort to convince people to vote for them. I understand that rubs some people the wrong way. Those people shouldn't be Catholic. Again, no problem.
For those that are saying that if a politician helps to legislate a pro-life law that would be like imposing their religious beliefs onto others,
Do you feel the same way about other laws legislated by politicians such as laws against murder? Is that imposing their religious beliefs also?
So, the Democratic party believes in killing kids before they come out and the Republican party believes in killing kids after they come out, ie the bombing of Iraq's kids. And if the U.S. can go in and kill a million Iraqis, what is your problem with Iran nuking a million Americans? Your hypocrisy is astonishing to me. Why don't we just stop killing altogether. As it is, we Americans are so without conscience, that we should just keep our mouth shut about the immorality of other nations.
to cd walker, nice try but you still don't quite have the understanding to make your argument….your reference to "thou shall not kill" is a misunderstanding you have of biblical translations. the better translation that would help you is that the literal meaning is "you shall not murder". although no caring person would condone "murder" or "killing", they are in fact two different things. to remove the fetus from the womb with a vacuum cleaner would be "murder". to kill or be killed in war is "killing". some simple minded people have a problem distinguishing from the two, i hope this helps you understand why your argument doesn't make sense.
Bishop Burke – should stick to 'Bishoping" – and STAY out of politics….any man who has allegedly ignored the sexual scandals of priests – sets no example in any way, shape or form – to set himself up and pontificate on the political situation in the United States.
frank, there are a LOT of organizations that should lose tax-exempt status by your definition. in the case of sierra club they just set up several subsidiaries under different status, like sierra club foundation, so they can 'legally' lobby the heck out of congress. so the church could just follow that model. anyways, who cares about the political system. democrats are a monopoly of news, views, and politics in the u.s. and there adherents are more dogmatic than any 'religion' on the planet. they will vote for comedians for senate, anything democrat voters will pull the lever for anyone with a d.
Should the Democrat Party force the removal of the tax-exempt status of the American Catholic Church, as they have been threatening for decades, because the Church condemns the slaughter of innocent human life in the womb, I shall be happy to make up the difference. So I say to the Democrat Party: BRING IT ON.
This is why I don't go to church anymore
I am confused. Almost all of the responders are trying to argue from a bad position. Burke did not say the Democratic
Party is the "party of death"but they "RISKED transforming themselves". So if we are going to have a debate, let us be sure that we are on the same page.
Yes, indeed. The Republican party represents life, as long as the body is a US citizen. If you happen to be an Iraqi citizen, then your life is deemed 'acceptable collateral damage'.
Using the commandment "Thou shalt not kill," as a means of stereotyping every soldier in combat as a murderer is not legitimate. Just war theory by St. Thomas Aquinas clarifies what is in reality a very sensitive issue. Our fighting against terrorism began as a just war, and at this point, it would be morally irresponsible for the United States to up and leave. The situation left in our wake would be far more dangerous than the even extremely dangerous situation that existed when we entered Afghanistan and Iraq.
But also, I do not deny that the idea of abortion in cases of rape is very sensitive as well. What the Church does recognize though is that there are alternatives to killing a child because it is inconvienent or even against one's own will. Even in the case of rape, the moral justification for having an abortion is very weak and does not carry much water.
For those of you who can't understand why the Catholic Church would take the stance on abortion that they do, maybe you should read your Bible and expressly Luke 17:2 and Ephesians 2:1-3 for a better understanding on the Catholic opinion on other life issues. Maybe if we spent more time reading the Bible and less time listening to the media opine and whine, we as a country facing financial doom would be living in better times. Humble yourselves America!
For all the indignant liberals who are whining about the position of the Catholic Church, vis a vis it's own members, NOONE cares what you think. a) it's none of your business. 2) your tortured "logic" that purportedly points out contradictions in Catholic positions illustrates your ignorance of Catholic teaching as well as 3) the haphazard way you call upon logic and principles when it suits you, and ignore them when it doesn't. 4) your moral equivalency is important only to you and simply underscores your absence of judgement. 5) your moral relevancy simply reflects your LACK of VALUES. and 6) you consistently argue about the right to choose to kill unborn children; save your breath and just explain your position to God when the time comes.
There has never been a Constitutional separation of church and state. Only a requirement that congress shall pass no law establishing a state religion, in fact it requires a free expression thereof.
If the dems want to think they can be good Catholics and still vote for abbortion, they are only fooling themselves.
I don't see how any Good Catholic could vote for a democrat any more than why 95% of blacks vote for them when the dems were the ones that fought against their civil rights, but the dems are the ones that give the hand outs to keep them dependent on government support and not being able to make it on their own.
Kudos to Archbishop Burke for speaking out on this fundamental moral issue. Catholics in public office who publicly put themselves in opposition to clear church doctrine are not Catholics in good standing and should be barred from the sacraments. It is a simple matter of church discipline. If such persons persist in their public positions contrary to the faith, they should simply leave the church. No big deal; the church can get along without them!
this makes my blood boil. i'll answer simply citing a well-argued piece in the national catholic reporter by a civil and canon lawyer, arguing that a pro-life perspective gives insufficient breadth for judging how to vote in this election. the bishops themselves have pointed out the importance of weighing a candidate's positions on just war and torture in addition to abortion. obama has opposed torture and the iraq war, mccain has supported them. extremists like burke distort the argument made by his own colleagues in favor of an out-of-kilter exclusivity of focus on abortion–an issue on which obama disagrees with the church in supporting choice, but on which he agrees on issues such as finding ways to decrease the number of abortions. so much for simply citing the article. when will the right wing in the church hierarchy stop trying to bludgeon the rest of the world with humanae vitae, and recognize that it serves as an obstacle to useful dialogue and progress?
i'm tired of it. the reason stem cell research goes somewhere is because pluripotent cells are human! :: that is why we scientists see their potential. get over it: existence precedes essence. the only difference between this and slavery is you could see the effects of slavery…. you don't know them so then they are not there…okay democrats…will give you what you want…abort your kids.. i'm tired of it!
i'm tired of stupidity reigning over this country… end your potential…help global warming etc, etc, etc…
Greg…. The argument is that the Dems are being targeted by a group that at one time supported the Nazi Party. Thats right The Vatican Supported the Nazi's. I suppose you will undoubtedly say its not true but then again thats all you do is say "no they didn't" about everything. If the republicans can wage war where ever they want and kill people in the name of "security" then they are the true abortionists. Killing people that are fully coherent and not undeveloped fetuses the have not truly known life. They Kill the fully concise in the name of God. They are the ones that will be in hell if there is one. Have fun in hell greg!
I thought it was the Islamists that learned at Hitler's knee to be Fascists? How many children did Khomeni send into the mine fields in Iran-Iraq war? How women are buried alive or stoned in Iran each year for trivial "crimes"?
Biden is a liar and I cannot stand Cafeteria Catholics. Abortion is 100% evil and he doesn't even have the guts to stand with his own faith.
Raymond Burke is a loon, and as a Catholic it disgusts me to see the Church getting involved in politics like this. For one, people like Burke don't seem to make a big deal about deaths in unnecessary wars like Iraq. For two, they shouldn't bring up political parties and who their congregations should be voting for. Otherwise, they should lose their tax exempt status.
Michael, you are so far off base I don't know where to start. First of all, there has been no suggestion that the US should wage nuclear war with Iran. Secondly, you equivocate the taking of innocent life to that of legal self defense and warfare. What crime do unborn children commit that deserves the death penalty? The democrat party has the blood of millions of children on it's hands.
B careful Dems, the Cath-hurch also supports your open border views, so while your going off the handle on this statement from the Church, don't make them to mad, they have tons of power that was all on your side until your religion hating-yet-pandering-to Liberal "Leaders?" started abusing the issue.
That'swhat happens when you pretend to be the "Party of All, yet none."
they are all about the illegal alien aid, which meets your Socialist America agenda, yet they disagree with you on abortion……with friends like Democrats, who needs enemies???
The Democrats do not have the high moral ground when it comes to war.
Anyone who gives the impression that Obama will NOT commit our armed forces to a conflict is either a liar or very foolish. If Obama is president, there will be plenty of scenarios where his advisors will lead him into a conflict that would prove unpopular.
Besides, what is your beef with the Catholic Church politically? Are you a buffoon? The US Catholic Church is riddled with social justice hypocrisy which you should just love. 47 years and I know more devout liberal democrats in the church than conservatives. Get a grip. My beef with the church is in regards to this social justice crap which very literally uses the threat or actual use of violence by law enforcement to take property from one citizen and give it to another. For the US Church it is hypocrisy, for the Democrats is further proof of moral bankruptcy.
Dave, old man. You are conflating multiple issues and have obviously been listening to the worst anti-Christian publicists.
First, there is nothing in orthodox Christianity or church canons, or even the Gospels, that says go out and commit unprovoked violence. Much as many leaders and individuals have abused religion for their own ends, that hardly nullifies any truth or benefits of the institution. That is like claiming the terrible behavior of Congress or the Clintons somehow refutes the institution of democracy and the Presidency.
Second, the Crusades were a pinprick inresponse to hundreds of years of Islamic expnasion (over formerly Christian and peaceful territories) and direct attacks against Europe. If anything, they were a rather anemic response. Even Islamic extremists have stopped dragging that one out. Third, as you seem to want to put much of the problem at the doorsteop of "the Church", the religious wars of Europe right after the Reformation involved Catholics and Protestants. And many of those battles were fueled as much by poitically ambitious rulers as anything. And last we checked, "the Church" had very little to do with Islam and submission to Allah.
Last, the wars and genocide in the name of secular-atheist ideologies in the 19th and 20th centuries make the numerical death toll from anything else pale by comparison (Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Nazism,…). So by your logic, we should silence all secular movements. Your argument is self-refuting.
Good day!
"What's so hysterical about that is that the Church is responsible for more death over the last few thousand years than any other institution.
Look up all the religious wars that have claimed millions of lives. From the Crusades to modern day, war and death created in the name of God, Allah, and other religions haven taken a huge toll on human life"
How is it that any "church" gets a tax deduction when they blatantly stick their nose into the country's politics? The Catholic Church needs to lose their tax free status just as should Immans at Islamic Mosques, or Rabbis at Synagogues, etc. that rant about their political opinions.
They are a death cult,no doubt about it,and they get elected on the backs of dead soldiers,dead infants,natural disasters,and who knew the stock market crash(Which They Created) would be A boon for them? hmmm..
As for Churches,is you do not start asserting yourself,you'll be run outa town..Hollywood has launched an anti church film that could add to the death cult Liberalism even more..YOU GUYS NEED TO BE LOUDER!
"more death over the last few thousand years"
And yes, it's been around 2,000. Forget your history, maybe get your millennia straight?
Please. Let's take the emotion out of the discussion and look at the facts and the actual teachings of the church. There are so many misconceptions.
Good people can debate whether or not the War on Terror is just or the best way to help the needy. Science shows the unborn child has a heart beat at 22 days – that is not debatable. With care and nurishment that unborn child will make it. Just like you and I – if someone withheld our care and nurishment, we to would die. Do our mothers have the right to end our lives because we may be inconvienent?
All this stems from the relativism. Relativism just does not work. Choosing your own morality does not work. What if some crazy dictator came to power and decided based on his own ideals that all people of a certain ethincity or faith were not fit to survive and subsequently exterminate them? Wait, that happened, his name was Hilter. He dehumanized the Jews which allowed his soldiers to commit the atrocities of WWII. The same is happening to our unborn.
The right to life is guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence – remember that old thing?
Ah, here come the drudgies, right on time!
"Choose life – receive blessings. Choose death receive cursings." Holy Bible, Old Testament. Wolverine
It's time to stand up to the fascist theocracy of the Catholic Church. Just as they imprisoned Galileo for speaking the truth, the Catholic church today imposes itself on the secular world as though it is an authority. It's time for Catholics to break away and challenge this autocratic, unAmerican pseudo religion. How dare the Vatican call the democrats the party of death. The blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents are on the Vatican and the pope for their support for the true party of death: the neofascist neocon Republican party.
choose the McCain and go into foreclosure and loose your 401k!!!
Yah, Its to bad the Democrats use to be a good party that really beleived in helping people. Hell even my Grandpa switch over to the Republican party last year and he's from Arkansas??? The liberals have destroyed that party. No morals, anything anti-American is praised, spit on the Military, follow the Communist Manufesto, Tax the middle class out of existence even though they pay 88% of all of the taxes now??? Make government so hugh that it will take away our freedoms and Liberty. This true if you follow a History book and can read. Oh, and kill innocent babies. I know save the caribou, the ozone, but human beings we just can't let that happen??? People's Republic of San Fran. Pelosi has the worst Congress in History. I'd say the Democrats have dishonored themsleves and our a disgrace to our founding fathers and what they wanted. I have read it and it is true. How sad!
You and the others took the hook. Who said that saving the life of a child is a religious issue? There are more laws in this country to protect the eggs of Eagles than to protect the unborn. So, are the eagle protectors religious wackos? The Bible says "do not steal", "Do not Murder", "Do Not Cheat" and our society has chosen to put it in the laws should we abolish them also? Oddly enough most of the teachings of the church are just plain common sense.
Amen to Prefect Burke for standing up for Life and showing it for what it is: EVIL!You dimwits who attempt to equate Iran w/abortion are locos!An innocent baby killed in the womb(and sometimes out of the womb)has no resemblance to our defending our own Country b/c WE were attacked on 911 or did you,conveniently,forget that! DUH!Please try to use the brains the Good Lord gave you or they may rot further from misuse and we wouldn't want that,would we????
Anyone who votes democrap is a contract killer.
Non-sense. Probably in the back pocket of some rich Republican. I'm sorry but the Catholic church is a joke. Lets not talk about the countless rapes and "murders" they committed in their history. It is our law that it is legal. "Obey the law of the land, for all u Catholics." I think the timing of this is just too perfect. Support a democrat – support abortion? I don't usually say anything but too many ignorant people posting on this.
And I like all the comments on people going to hell. Catholics think everyone goes to hell but them. Some indigenous person who never heard of that religion…oh he is going to hell. A good Christian…oh that person is going to hell. You don't think you might be the one going to hell?
It is a breath of fresh air to see the Holy See finally publicly and politically stand up for what it believes.
This new Pope and Raymond Burke, Rock.
Oh, we're quoting the Bible now? Which came first, man or animal?
Genesis 1:24-26
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 2:19 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And, why does Leviticus use a Polynesian word? (it's a rhetorical question, please don't answer)
To Dave, Michael Cecil, et al: Equivocating the article about abortion and the theoretical nuking of Iran is not apples to apples at all. Abortion is a decision to take a defenseless life when the child does not threaten the life of the mother. The decision to nuke Iran will be based on saving the lives of over 7,000,000 Israelis. While I am confident that the Almighty would not be happy with either, everybody knows theres a difference.
Insofar at who is the party of death, the Republicans want to kill the bad guys, Democrats push for the belief that there's nothing wrong with Abortion. Since they're more concerned with saving the worst criminals from the death penalty instead of the defenseless unborn, certainly not the party of the living.
The Demon-crats are evil. They created the holocaust through the millions of babies aborted in our country. Democrats have pushed through legislation all of the way through 9 months with the in human partial birth abortion. Demon-crfats are sick and evil! Now Obama supports infanticide not even being willing to back Born Alive Infant Protection Act. Obama is the Anti-Christ!
This article is right on target!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank God a leader in the Catholic Church is finally standing up for life!!
What would the political landscape in America look like if religion was totally eliminated from the discussions?>>
Thank God there is at least one Church that refuses to bow to corrupt politicians and their hacks.
As for those who would like to silence the voice of the Catholic Church, be assured that you have legions of comrades in Cuba, Venezuela, China, Iran, N. Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan (not to mention those fine folks in the KKK)
I am a Catholic. I believe that life begins at conception. I believe that anybody who claims to be a Catholic and does not believe that life begins at conception is a "Counterfiet Catholic". The Catholic church in some instances makes it easy for a person to vote pro choice due to the fact that they say you don't have to be a one issue person. This tells me that the church is not serious about abortion. They pay it lip service. All you have to do is follow the money. Bottom line the church does not want to loose the money by taking a solid stance. I guess some people look at it as getting rid of the child before they grow up to be poor or disabled.I see videos of the nazi death camps with bodies stacked one on another and think the only difference in this scenario and abortion is the poor little children that are aborted don't take up as much space. The culture in this country is becoming more and more a culture of death.
The Dems are rapidly moving towards a fascist party.
Here are just a few of the positions they have taken recently that seriously alarm me:
–> Prosecution of political dissidents ("Truth Squad").
–> Religious intolerance disguised as separation of
church and state.
–> Legislative support of abortion factories. (Planned
And, last by not least
–> The Obama Jugend who are emerging in public schools mindlessly singing the "Obama song".
The truth hurts sometimes…………..live with it libs.
Roman Catholic Democrats have a choice to make. It's the choice between a child's life and death. To hear many Democrats talk about the issue, if a child is still in the womb, she is fair game for abortion. Even worse, now Sen. Obama has lent his support to infanticide by tacitly supporting the denial of medical attention to a child if she survives the abortionist and somehow manages to be born alive. Feminists, secular progressives and liberal Democrats like Sen. Obama see no problem with taking a baby's innocent human life for the sake of convenience. Roman Catholic Democrats have a choice to make. Do they choose Obama and his philosophy of death, or do they listen to their consciences and choose life for the unborn.
He must have read Ramesh Ponnuru's awesome book The Party of Death. Take a look and check it out too.
Using charity and discussing these issues with a clear unemotional mind always is best. Using words like "fascist" really does not help (especially when it is used incorrectly). Again, look at facts not your own perception of the facts. It is funny how people who consider themselves "liberal" and "open minded" often are only open to those who believe what they believe.
Although I am a devout Catholic, I can take the religious aspect out of the discussion and look at what we are doing the weakest of the weak – the unborn. They do not have a voice. Our job as humans is to stand-up for the weakest of the weak – that is true kindness, charity and love for others.
The Catholic Archbishop taking to task Catholic Democratic lawmakers is perfectly within his right. I was raised Catholic. The Archbishop is doing his job. I notice many complaining that because he went after two Democratic Catholics, his rights to free speech, and his church needed to loose their tax exempt status. What RUBBISH. I still have to tolerate your views, so what is the difference?
Since he went after the sacred cow of the liberal left, abortion, he is a heretic for their "religion." I am a human that believes in life. I applaud young people that do the right thing when an accident occurs. I pray for the young people that choose otherwise.
Russel, I think you might want to go back and re-read what I posted. If you read more closely you would see I agree with you. I provide an argument justifying warfare and further argue that abortion is morally inexcusable.
Ahmadinejad and Iran only want power plants and not nukes? I know this is off subject, but are you a raving lunatic? Ahmadinejad has publicly declared his desire to destroy Israel and see America run into the ground. Half of the country's government is made up of fundamentalist, extremist Muslims who hate the west and everything that it stands for. Everyday, in many parts of the world, these kind of mislead, uneducated, unfortunate fools strap suicide bomb belts to their waists and run into crowds of people shouting God's praises all the way, convinced that they are going straight to heaven after they blow themselves and everyone else to pieces. If there is even the slightest possibility that a person with this mindset could be in control of even ONE nuclear weapon, everything that can be done MUST be done to stop them from acquiring one. And if you think these kind of people do not live in Iran and even run parts of the government, you need a reality check buddy. Just open up the newspaper or search somewhere else on this website and you will see the evidence. It scares me enough that Pakistan has nukes, but IRAN? Peaceful huh? I bet there are quite a few soldiers in Iraq that were blown up by IEDs made from materials exported from Iran that might disagree with you. Come back down to Earth, I really do wish that we all could get along too, but even if America just completely disappeared from the middle east and left them alone, people with these kinds of ideologies would still want to kill everyone that disagreed with them. Wake up.
Fine let all the liberals and pro-choice abortion lovers have their Roe V. Wade. Just change the law to state that if you want an abortion you have to perform it. Don't force some doctor or nurse whose are bound by law to perform it for you. You want abortion you kill your own child. I can't believe how these abortion loving people are the same ones who won't eat meat, eggs, and now want human breast milk used for ice cream because a cows milk should be used for just the calves! They are also the same people that make the killing of a pregnant woman a double homocide. You can't have it both ways unless the mother does her own abortion, otherwise technically the doctor should be put on trial for murder.
I still don't understand what babies did to be terminated but murderers did to be saved. I'm not saying I'm in favor of capital punishment (that's not the subject here). However it is ironic that liberals are so against capital punishment but also pro-abortion.
FINALLY someone with a lick of sense has spoken up
99.999% for pure convenience
Other .000whatever % as a red-herring rationale
Our justice/legal system doesn't stop because of the possibility of the red-herring of incarcerating an innocent person
The one thing that confuses me is this. Nobody seems to have a full handle on when, exactly, life begins. On both sides of the equation. So, if one is not sure when life begins – is it not better to err on the side of caution?
We go to great lengths to allow PETA and other animal rights groups get vulgar in order to advance a position. However, pro-life groups are positioned as religious nuts – because of pro-choice?
Anybody want to lay money on how many members of PETA are pro-abortion?
Way back Dave wrote the following:
"What Biden said once was "I believe life begins at conception, however I don't feel it is my duty to legislate my faith on others."
Joe, Joe, Life beginning at conception is not a religious principle its a scientific fact. It is no more a religious belief than the law of gravity. As someone wisely put it, "Everyone who has purchased a condom knows when life begins."
I would question the ethics of a man who claims to believe that life begins at conception yet consistently votes opposite to these beliefs. Do we want him a heartbeat from the top? Who could trust him?
Seems the good Archbishop has touched a nerve. Its a nerve that needs touching. Time for Catholics to wake up and realize they are being used, as Catholic immigrants have been used since their arrival in the US. Not that the Republican party is any better.
Its about time that the Catholic hierarchy sood up for its teaching.
Oh suuure. Lets see our conservative base will vote to go to war without the proper 'research' or soundness in reason. Our conservaive base will want to bring kids into this world as fast as possible but will kill em off with the death penalty or perhaps will vote against safety nets which might save poeple of mental stress and then physical disease and death, perhaps as a result… and or duh..
Religion is the result of plenty of deaths too, worldwide..
The man has got it right! Democrats love death…
Citizenbronte is ill-informed. Cardinal Burke does love life. He loves and respects the life in the womb. Love the sinner but hate the sin.
It is fortunate that Ms. Crow has borne no children and has safely ( for the sake of the unborn) passed the age of fertility.
good for them. democrats need to he called out on their position of killing babies! the democrats are the vessel for the angel of death to kill the unborn. pure evil.
Gee isn't the catholic church the church of homosexual child mollesters. Seams to me Pope your practices have destroyed a lot of lifes too
I love all these guys running around in their dresses convincing slow learners that there is a sky fairy so you will hand over your money for ever lasting life.
How dare the Catholic religion criticizes the Democrats, shame on you after all the pedophiles you have running a muck in the church, still today. You have a lot of nerve after all the lives you have fractured to put it midley. You are like the Republicans, you think that no rules apply to you, wake up!
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." – Mother Teresa
And abortion isn't just a religious issue – there are ATHIESTS who believe it's wrong.
Slavery was also thought of at one point to be a personal choice. That didn't make it right.
Abortion is the Slavery of our time.
[…] is for the Pope to come out and rally some more Christians against Biden and his Saracen partner. FaithWorld ? Blog Archive ? Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death" … Vatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like […]
"If your against abortion, you better be doubly against war."
Not correct. Actually quite stupid comparison. Abortion is about killing the UNARMED INNOCENT IN COLD BLOOD.
War can be about defending one's nation and one's family. War against Hitler is justified. ABORTION CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BECAUSE IT IS THE TAKING OF AN UNARMED, INNOCENT LIFE IN COLD BLOOD.
Stop this silly "comparison" talk in this blog now and stay on topic which is about the democrat party becoming the party of death, as pronounced by a high ranking member of the Church of Life. THAT IS THE TOPIC. Stop this silly distraction. Or are you too stupid to stay on topic?
Raymond Burke speaks falsely in this matter. If he were a man of God, he would be calling for donations to Catholic Relief for starving Haiti, but instead uses his position to steer US catholic sheep to conservative politics.
In 2004 an Ohio priest reflected on the election (Bush vs Kerry) and similarly urged his flock with this quote from his sermon: "Some catholics would dare to think for themselves and risk eternal damnation instead of following the teaching and education of the church." So we've had 4 more years of an evil, stupid, lying administration-perfectly deserved by Moron America.
Political clergy have learned nothing since. It is not a matter of being left or right or politically central. Christians, Jews, Muslims (and i presume some Hindus and Buddhists) have deeply entwined their beliefs with political positions, overtly on principle, covertly for greed of power and influence. Moneylenders at the steps of the Temple!
Religions cannot help humanity. The leaders are lost in building the tribe and dangling dreams of heaven.
This is the Age of Confoundment, where all the religion, education, and prosperity of humanity counts for nothing.
Every time you sheep think you're cozy with God, I COMMAND you to think of the suffering of Haiti, which foretells humanity's fate. You did nothing for them.
[…] Read it. […]
If the Catholic church wants a voice in US politics, then the US Catholic contingency can give up their tax exepmt status.
Not that I like Pelosi or Biden, they are right in saying they don't want to impose their personal views on others.
I DO NOT like the idea of ignorant women using abortion as a birth control method (oops I'm pregnant again, Ill just get an abortion…again), but I believe that women should be able to make a decision to terminate a pregnancy in cases of heath issues, severe birth defects, rape and incest.
What we really need in this country is better sex education; not failed "abstinance only" programs. Teach kids about birth control methods AND the consquences of sex instead of acting like if you don't tell kids about sex they won't have sex.
Personally, I think all of the people who say all abortion should be banned and say all babies should be wanted and loved, should line up to adopt all the unwanted babies that come from unplanned and unwanted pregnancies… Put your money where your mouth is.
Abortion is the taking of innocent lives in cold blood.
War is the defense of one's nation and one's family. Abortion and the taking of innocent life is NEVER justified; war such as against Hitler is easily justified.
A proper analogy of abortion is Hitler's SS gunning down unarmed women and children in Poland or Ukraine or Italy. That is analogous to abortion, so if one wants to comapre abortion to anything, that is what you compare it to.
God bless this great man for standing up for the values of the Catholic Church. Abortion is the greatest evil being committed on earth.
This topic is about a head of the Church of Life saying the US Democrat party has lost its way and is rapidly becoming the party of death. This is accurate, based on the party's support for abortion, including partial birth abortion which is actually infanticide. So let's stick to the article as a discussion point.
Why do you disagree and think the Democrat party is NOT the party of death?
The pope may talk like hes serious but he leaves the teeth out of the bite….he had his opportunity when Kerry and Pelosi took communion..he could have easily taken his position then by excommunicating them on the spot for supporting abortion, homosexuality, man/animal stem cell cloning, etc. He did not. he made a fatal error and this weakness is now exploited by the demons we have to contend with..and the church is now weak and feeble and toothless. Murderers should be punished by thier own murder for supporting murder. So I believe in an eye for an eye.
I'm sorry, but don't say that one opposing abortion is one who's someone imposing his religious views on someone else. The whole premise behind being pro-life is that the baby in the womb is a living human being and aborting, or taking the life of, that human is murder. What's religious in that?
As a Christian, Protestant, I hate abortion and loath the doctors of death who make their fortunes off both scared, lost girls and greedy, uncaring women who can't buy that nice car unless Doctor Vacuumababy does her a womb-cleaning. These people who claim to be Catholic but also support abortion puzzle me, so its interesting to see one of their prelates actually take a stand. I simply presumed they were, in the main, hypocrites. As far as whether one's faith should be discussed or disclosed as a matter of politics, I vote in the affirmative. That is my opinion, as opposed to those with other opinions. May I have my opinion? I want to know what politicians believe, to which faith they subscribe,and to what degree they share my own views. Once again, that's my opinion, the views of a simple Christian with no power and utterly void of political mojo.
O-blame-a will silence the Catholic Church. There will be no religion…except Rev Wrights version.
Cardinal Burke is awesome for speaking out! God bless all his works.
It's obvious to everyone that the Democrat party does not hold Christian values, this should be taught to the public so that Christians, especially Catholics, understand that they should hold their values when they vote. The Church, and all religious leaders, need to teach the public of their responsibility. The values of Christians are not in line with the Democrat party and the Church needs to raise her voice and make this known. As Christians we cannot continue to be apathetic and let puffed up speeches and nominal Catholics sway our vote.
Most of you people are incredibly stupid. Now we are a nation of old people, really incredibly STUPID old people becasue now there are not enough smart kids out there to provide support for all you old stupid people when you retire..so who gets to support you? NO ONE> I think the time will come when old people will get put to sleep becuase they did not make enough bright kids to save them…they were stupid and aborted all the smart white kids (too inconvenient to interfere with a career) and saved all the dumb ass kids…the stupid parents didnt care about getting an abortion, but looked like it was a great excuse to stay on food stamps and welfare. those stupid women destroyed America…it was a HUGE mistake to make them entitled to vote. Man created his greatest sin shen he created the birth control pill..now face old age all you progressives..you are gonna die miserble deaths with no loving kids to bid you farewell.
THOU shalt not kill the innocent…the way the 5th commandment is written in Hebrew..
So many of you are missing the point that he is trying to say the the party that calls itself the "Democratic" Party has changed.
Too many Democrats people out there don't know what they mean when they say they are a democrat. If half of them knew what their so-called "democratic" party all boiled down to, they would run and hide behind the republicans!!!
I have to agree with the Vatican. The Democrats support of Gay Rights, ABORTION, which is the murdering of life at its conception and other views conflict with Biblical teachings and is indeed harmful to our nation and our nation's vested interest in development of life styles with morales, versus the Democrats who want to destroy decent morale behavior not just within the US, but in some cases, the world. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and many of the Kennedy families have forsaken the teachings of the Lord, yet call themselves practicing Catholics. A true Catholic does not violate the teachings of the Lord!
Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The church should get it's own house in order before commenting on a secular society. Diddling children has it's own downside.
Yes, the Democrats are the party of death and a lot of other bad stuff…greed, totalitarianism, poverty of the soul, cultural amorality, Godlessness, etc.
May God grant Archbishop Raymond Burke many happy, Holy, and blessed years!
First of all, if you are not a woman who has carried a child in your womb, then you should not have a say. Period. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
Not once, in either of my two pregnancies, was I in control of the human inside me. NOT ONCE. Anyone who says it is a womans choice because it is HER body is ignorant of the truth. They (my children) were not me, nor part of my body, nor under my control. AND God knew them before he placed them in my womb. Just like he knew you and loved you. You want a choice??? Choose a condom! Choose abstinence! Murdering a child because you are not responsible enough to have safe sex is pathetic, disgusting, and should NEVER have been made legal.
But honestly, that is neither here nor there. Abortion within the first trimester will never be illegal. What is important is to look to the moral character of a man who whole-heartedly believes that it is ok to murder a child who is perfectly capable of survival outside of the womb. A man who would deny medical treatment to infants born alive. Children of God, left to die in a trash can. If you support this, then you are guilty of murder too. And may God have mercy on your soul.
As for war… I don't believe we have re-instated the draft. NO ONE is risking their life for their country by force. They know the risk when they sign up for the armed forces, and they are proud to take that risk. I have several friends and family in Iraq and Afghanistan. Ask them who they are voting for in November. You will only find a handful of democrats over there. The numbers are staggering. The only ones whining about war are the ones sitting over here on their asses hoping the goverment delivers their welfare check on time and that their foody card has enough on it for pizza tomorrow. If you've never carried a child, and would never risk your life for your country, then shut up and go to bed. Your opinion doesn't count.
Though I am not a Catholic, I am impressed with the church's bravery in speaking the truth. Those comments here trying to muddy the waters about Iran and nuclear war are just missing the point and also hoping to divert attention from the moral bankruptcy of the Democrat party. The facts are that the Democrats place no value on the most innocent lives among us; the unborn. They hide behind euphemism to put a presentable face to the horrors of infanticide, calling it 'choice'.
This is one Protestant that truly wishes God's blessing on these men for speaking the truth.
There is a difference between personal beliefs and the secular public policy that governs a multicultural, multi-faith society. Get it straight: we believe in separation of church and state. Quit trying to impose your religious beliefs about "life begins at conception" with public policy.
Nobody forces any politician or anyone else to be a member of the Catholic Church. If you don't like the teachings and rules of the Church then join a different one or none at all. But stop trying to make the Church bend to your political agenda.
Prof HMC
You know, if my dog had puppies, and I put them in a sack and through them in a lake, because I didn't want them or couldn't afford them or for whatever reason, I would be arrested for cruelty to animals. But a woman can abort (murder) her baby and the abortionist put a baby fighting for its life in a trash can and leave it to die, and she or the abortionist is not arrested for taking a human life.
Do you not see something wrong with this picture?
.. words of wisdom from the the sponsors of the inqisition, witchburning, and aboriginal genocide.
Life begins at conception, no logical arguement can deny this. In the USA we are guaranteed the right to life, yet we contradict this right with abortion. Right to life or right to death? The choice should be clear, logically speaking.
The issue here is about abortion. It's time to stop looking at abortion as a philosophical discussion and start admitting what it is. The church says life begins at conception because biologically that is when the existence of a human life does begin. It is the clearest most scientific fact. Egg and sperm merge and life begins. If you don't "believe" that it is like saying you don't believe 2+2=4, because that is not your belief. Americans need to be educated about abortion. Let's start with visuals shall we. Google "abortion" images if you can stomach it and have the courage to face the truth, the real inconvenient truth. Like it or not, the democratic party supports this.
If you want to justify abortion other than the killing of an innocent human life then tell me when life begins. Give me an answer that is irrefutable, that doesn't change with time or technology. The only answer is conception. To deny that is simply a non-answer. If you want to justify abortion as a convenience, that it's simply not in the mother or fathers best selfish interest then be honest and say that. It's amazing to me that the Democratic party, the one that says its looking out for the little guy, leaves behind the most vulnerable of all.
blah blah blah….they fail to recognize their irrelevance in modern society.
One wonders what demons Burke must be battling that he needs to lash out at others….
To fbla: Do a little bit more research on your 3 questions for Sarah Palin, instead of just swallowing what the Democratic humps put forward as their analysis. Somehow they managed to warp the fact that Alaska requested reimbursement from insurance companies of those that were insured for medical procedures following rape to "Palin requires rape victims to pay for their own tests". Come on, tell me you're not that obtuse (and no, I'm not a Republican, before you accuse me of being a right wing fanatic).
I sure hope this Vatican official makes the same judgement call on politicians throughout the world who support abortion. European countries are more pro-abortion than the US, for example.
Why would ANYONE listen to the catholic church on issues of 'morality'?
…Billions in hush money for the molestation scandal, a profound ignorance concerning the 'every three second' malarial death rate & 'every 4-7 second' starvation death rate in children, (W.H.O. figures), pope john-paul2 giving a 'peace' medal to the scientist who created the 'neutron' W.M.D. subvarient, astounding intolerance of noncatholics…
A shallow concern for foetuses until birth, a worship of big business…
I could be 'excomunicated' for visiting an abortion clinic, but I can fly a nuclear-armed B-52 & recive the sacrements?
…Why would ANYONE listen to the catholic church on the issue of 'morality'?
Archbiship Burk was born and raised in Central Wisconsin and brings with him grass roots midwestern values.
As Biship of the Lacross Diocese he was firm and fare. Biden and the other Catholic Democrates be warned that He will Archbiship Burk will be very vocal and express the positon of the Pope and in General All Catholics.
Former native of Central Wisconsin who played Kick the Ball with Burk as a pre-teen in Stratford Wisconsin when visit friend and relatives who lived there.
The Catholic leader is correct.
The Democrats have been taken over by mixed nuts and assorted fruits, religious fanatics who are Humanist-indocrinated whether they understand the source of their new, Christianity-replacing faith or not.
Their founding scriptures, the Humanist Manifestos (http://www.jcn.com/manifestos.html)dema nd death for old people and the 'right' of 'choice' to kill innocent unborn children.
Their First Commandment is that there is no God, and their sacrament, the body and blood of living human children, practiced 1.5 million times per year in abortuaries. Very humane and 'enlightened,' eh?
Whether it's 'Choice, Diversity, World Community, Equitable Redistribution Of Wealth And Resources, Consenting Adults,' etc., all the Democrats ideas and beliefs come from the Humanist belief system, not Christianity.
Of COURSE they hate Catholics (I'm a Protestant, but I like Catholics and their Biblical stance on Life), and of COURSE they believe their own religion and it's liberal mantras are the superior ones.
But they ARE just as religious as the Catholics!
Yea! Come on out, Vatican! Thanks be to God!
Good for the Vatican.
And for the record, the Vatican is opposed to the Iraq war, a doctrine of preemption, etc, ya crazy rabid liberals! And how come you never hear of the sex abuse in the San Francisco public school system?
Thank goodness someone is speaking out about this.
Life is Life. Murder is Murder.
If there is a chance that that life does happen to begin at conception and If by chance your eternal resting place, i.e. heaven or hell, is based on your complicity in electing a person that not only tolerates abortion but actively promotes it as a right, who do you turn to for advice? Nancy Pelosi? Barack Obama? or perhaps the church that's been preaching the same evil of abortion for 2000 years… You decide. But be sure you are right. Eternity is a very long time.
The Church should stay out of expessing opinions of politics and scientific technology. Recently, after some 450 years they have apoogized to Galileo for having stated that Earth revolved around the sun. Religion has always been a stumbling block for progress. As far as abortion is concerned church prelates take vows of chastity (pity) they are provided everything and are not aware of what it takes to support a family, put kids though school, pay all sort of bills,etc. Cardinal Burke, get involved in Italian politics and give opinions and see where they send you. It is best if you stay out of politics and expressing your opinion on stem cell reserach, you really know nothing about it and how many humans it would help.
I used to be pro-choice, until woman killed my child.
You that have such scorn for those that are not perfect enough for you – and choose life – must not really cherish life at least as much as I do.
People aren't perfect, and when nations seek to destroy others, the resistance to that is war. That is not an abortion issue. Get your proportions in order, or quit grasping for straws.
Pointing out that pro-life proponents are not perfect – ergo can never be wrong on the abortion issue – is ridiculous and illogical.
Nobody is perfect, and neither are you – therefore – the argument regarding perfection of proponents of either side is wholly irrelevant.
It comes down to the value of human life.
There is nothing more valuable. Seems you don't get this idea.
43,000,000 babies killed all thanks to Democrats and Roe V Wade. Who, BTW, has since admitted she lied, and is pro-life now. And even with the invention of the ultra sound, and all that it shows, including a nearly fully developed baby at 11 weeks, the Democrats STILL obssess about aborting live babies, then support selling their body parts to ghouls who would research them. LETS BE HONEST! It is not about CHOICE, or a womans reproductive rights. That's nonsense. A woman if free to take the pill, wear the patch, or have an IUD. It's about the money that the research brings the Universities aka DNC Madrasses. I would like to see Nancy Pelosi take communion. Does she even go to church?
You may use other arguements to justify abortion but here are the facts:
Number of abortions per year: Approximately 42 Million
Number of abortions per day: Approximately 115,000
The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II was roughly 72 million people.
In less than two years, the number of human lifes extinquished is greater than all the people killed in WWII. This is a horrible fact and by the way, thank your parents for not having an abortion or you wouldn't be reading this.
GOD BLESS Archbishop Burke!!! Finally someone in the Roman Catholic Church is speaking the TRUTH about the Democrats in the United States!!
Raymond Burke is making his home state of Wisconsin proud. I'm not even Catholic, yet I have admired his stance on issues since he led the La Cross Diocese.
How many Christians throw away their morals and vote for the worldly democratic party. It's not o.k. to pick and choose what you believe in the Catholic Church or any church, yet that is exactly what you need to do if you are to vote for Obama, Biden, or any democrat.
The Church should stay out of expessing opinions of politics and scientific technology. Recently, after some 450 years they have apologized to Galileo for having stated that Earth revolved around the sun. Religion has always been a stumbling block for progress. As far as abortion is concerned church prelates take vows of chastity (pity) they are provided everything and are not aware of what it takes to support a family, put kids though school, pay all sort of bills,etc. Cardinal Burke, get involved in Italian politics and give opinions and see where they send you. It is best if you stay out of politics and expressing your opinion on stem cell reserach, you really know nothing about it and how many humans it would help.
Don't use the "slippery slope" argument liberals. You need to keep on subject not drop into personal attacks because of someone's faith.
People seems to shrink from moral absolutes as if moral absolutes were toxic. There can be no moral absolute if there is not a final arbiter of right and wrong. It is amazing to me how so many people have such poor biblical scholarship. They think they know what the bible says, they view Christ as a kind of Ghandi figure. Essentially they dictate what the bible says, they do not allow it to speak for itself, if you will. No where does the bible in either old or new testament prohibit killing. What is prohibited is "murder"-the illegal taking of life. There is a hebrew and aramaic work for "kill" and there is also a word for murder( illegal taking of life). Throughout scripture the state is not prohibited from defending itself(to the comment of warriors aiming rifles and "killing people) nor from authorities use of lethal force to defend its citizens. What is however consistently prohibited is the taking of innocent life, life that is unable to defend itself. Words have meaning and killing and murder are quite simply not the same-all murder is killing, BUT not all killing is murder.
I believe it was January 1972 that the Democratic majority Supreme Court ruled that a woman could have her child in her womb killed in the most horrible and cruel manner possible. Then,6 months later this same Court(?) ruled that an ax murderer/s could not be put to death in the most humane manner,because they considered murderers above punishment of death that these same people authorized for innocent babies. While there's always a possibility of my eternity in hell,at least I will have reason to celebrate,because,surely these people will be there,regardless if they do,or donot believe in its existence.
you wrote:
"If it were up to these guys we would still follow scientific models where the sun circles the Earth."
Try learning a little history. The concept directly challenged the widely accepted model of the world that was held at the time. The Pope, and many others in the church knew that the solar model was very likely but there were political reasons that put them in a difficult position at the time. That is to say, the old idea that there is "the truth and then there is God's truth" meant that political upheavals could follow sudden redefinitions of the static model of life and God's plan as explained by the church. For all its faults, the confrontations with apostasy and the extremely close relationship between the church and political centers of power, the church has been a powerful force for scientific development. For instance, the kindly monk portrayed as observing the differences in pea seeds and learning about the segregation of "traits" (genes) was actually a scholar trained in chemistry, physics and biology and was assigned to undertake studies on animal and plant improvements by the Vatican. His seminal work (little joke or two there) was largely ignored because he explained it in mathematical terms (quadratic equations, etc.) and a lot of people at the time just didn't get it. But anyway, your accusations about the Church as a force of ignorance only demonstrate you traffic in the cheap, sleeazy "recieved" wisdom of tin-pot bigots, in just the same way as the ass-end bigots who sieze on religious dogma try to explain everything in those terms.
BTW: I'm an agnostic, not a religious person as you might impune, simply because rigidly doctrinare people think. I like to know what I am talking about, rather than blathering abusive slogans and insolent rubbish.
The Blog person, Phil Stewart, states:
Burke's criticism isn't limited to Democrats. Last year, he accused singer Sheryl Crow of being "a high profile proponent of the destruction of innocent lives" for defending a woman's right to have an abortion"
Phil Stewart must be from somewhere other than the United States or from Reuters!
The "criticism isn't limited to Democrats" – implying Sheryl Crow is not a Democrat?
First of all she is a flaming democrat – and, for the uninformed outside of the USA, Sheryl had a long-time ta-da-da-frolicky with little Bubba himself – our former President.
Get informed you foreigners! Bill Cliton and Hillary were an embarrassment.
My ex-husband (well-loved still) was abused by a Catholic priest. Spare me your pro-life platitudes, you idiots who espouse this position. Try seeing the other sid, for once. Catholic priests, bishops, archbishops, popes – these MEN have no right at all to spout their ridiculous, pathetic views on the subject of whether the Democrats are in their favor. Catholic or not, the people will make up their own minds, which is as it should be.
Jordan: try early 1500s on the Reformation, it's a little more accurate than 1100. You're thinking of the Orthodox schism.
The Babylonian Captivity was about 600 BC, and involved the Hebrews.
I believe the Archbishop has spoken truly, and is not out of line. I would like, in the interests of balance, for him to, at some point, address Republican apathy in doing anything to stop wrongful bioethical practices other than give lip service to it. I think it makes them a "party of death," too.
Gee Michael, and I thought this was a non-political article by the head of a Church and his view of those that pretend to be Catholic.
Morals are a very slippery slope for the left when you consider Obama and his votes for infanticide. Even partial birth abortion isn't enough to satiate the liberal blood lust.
Wise and uncompromising words from a wise man.
I've noticed a few comments which resort to moral relativism with Republicans. That's part of the problem, too.
Democrats are responsible for their own actions. God does not judge us in the light of what an opposing political party did or did not do, He judges us in the context of our own actions and inactions. When your day has come and you're ready to enter eternity, will you tell God "but the Republicans are just as bad!"
I think not.
What Pelosi has said and done is very dangerous. Biden is trying to capture votes by throwing his religion to the wind. Glad to see the Vatican finally stepping up. We have already heard about how they feel about Bush and war.
Apparently Democtrat Catholics only have to support certain parts of the Bible. Any thing else would be above their pay grade. There is a reason Wall Street's approval rating is one point higher than the Democrat controlled Congress. Political hacks and left wing lunacy does not get the support of the common American.
remove their tax exempt status NOW !!!
To you Demo-homies who play this "respect" life equivocation game: fact~ since Roe v.Wade~60,000,000 "legally" protected abortions. (Source: Guttmacher Institute PLANNED PARENTHOOD…America's PM Murder Incorporated…statistical arm and principal tax-for each-murder deduction)Defend that Civil Rights, non-
smoking,Global Warming Metro-MSM lackeys.
Arthur McVarish, Houston
Would it be so difficult for the church to excommunicate Democrats? It is a centralized hierarchy after all. Why don't they just get on with it and stop pussyfooting around?
Just to the make a Biblical distinction for unbelievers. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is given to individuals–not governments. War is an altogether different matter than the premeditated murder of the innocent unborn. The democratic party is the party of pro-choice in this country. And I might add that given how the pro-choice folks have mocked Governor Palin on this, it seems that "choosing" life doesn't count!
The letter Archbishop Burke refers to was from then Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, to the US Council of Catholic Bishops. The letter instructed the US bishops to deny Communion to Catholic politicians that supported abortion publicly. The letter was intercepted by the now retired cardinal of Washington and intentionally hidden from the council of bishops. Later when this Cardinal submitted his 75th birthday resignation to the new Pope Benedict, it was accepted promptly.
Archbishop Burke has been the greatest defender of the faith here and in Rome. Benedict's recent Papal appointment to Prefect of the Apostoic Signatura (the highest ranking figure in church law) makes him a very prominent figure in the Vatican and some say a name to be reckoned with for the next Pope. He is sure to stress his points on Catholic teaching further here when it comes to abortion and Catholics that support it. No doubt about it. God Bless him. American catholics have been mislead by Washington politicians that keep promoting themselves as "Catholics" to get votes but promote baby killing at the same time. Archbishop Burke, I believe has had enough of that.
Remember !!!!!!!!!!!!! "Blessed Is The Fruit Of Thy Womb!
Abortion Kills Children!!
[…] We must choose life ! […]
Wow, a Reuters article that seemed to give respectful coverage of the Vatican — I was amazed. But then I start looking at the comments and realize that the moonbats hoover near at hand. Really — what a disgraceful bunch you all are.
Everybody's wrong! Life begins with the production of sperm and egg cells. Through the artifice of celibacy the church assures the death of these sparks of human life. It is the Catholic Church that is the party of death, in in defiance of the Bible's admonition to be fruitful and multiply. Bruno I'd better get out of here the church probably wants to burn me again!
politicians can't hide behind the naked truth that abortion today is analogous to slavery 150 years ago.
would politicians today argue that slavery should remain legal because it was the law ? or that slavery should be up to the "choice of the landowner" ??
i left the democrats when i finally recognized this argument. they are cowards and have exchanged their knowledge of what they know is right and wrong, they know right from wrong but have sold their souls to remain in power.
who can have a conscience today and still be a member of the democratic party anymore.
not me anymore.
not me anymore.
if this argument has not sunk into your thick head, what is the matter with you.
if you are pro-color, do you realize that blacks are only 12 percent of the population but a gigantic share of babies killed ?? are you jiggy with that ? are you ok that our "black leaders" are jiggy with that ?
if you are pro woman, do you realize that half of the babies killed, i.e. 1-2 million babies a year, are baby girls ? are you ok with killing all these little girls ? and you call yourself pro-woman ? who is defending THESE women ? who ?
what a disgrace !!!!!!!!!
Good for the Vatican, and the numbers of pro-life democrats are growing!
But – – why is Senator Infanticide going to be welcome at the Alfred Smith Dinner in NY?
What kind of mixed message does that send to Catholics?
Abortion murders the most vulnerable in society who have no voice wether they can be born at all. I am a Catholic who admits to being a worthless sinner, but I pray that God will have mercy on not only me, but on all those who also fall short of His glory. I ask every one to open your heart to Christ because He gave his life for all who believe in Him
This is America not Medieval Spain. You don't have to be Catholic here. But if you ARE Catholic you have to accept the Church's teachings. Don't agree, go to another church. It's really that simple. BTW, Rudy Giuliani and former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge should be included in that list and they are Republicans. The Democrats are fully Pro-Death though.
Simple and plain Logic: Abortion- MURDER Aid and Support to Abortion- MURDER The taking of a life for the sake of 'convenience'- MURDER The taking of an innocent life in the womb that cannot defend itself- MURDER Support for individuals who profit in the Abortion industry- Accessories to MURDER Voting for people who support the taking of life; whether it be in the womb,on a feeding tube,the aged and infirmed in a hospital bed, or just because someone is not wanted- MURDER. Any way people that want to rationalize it, justify it, make excuses for its existance, ignore it, downplay it, ocstracize and ridicule in the Public forum those who defend life in all its glory, there is just one word to describe it– Pure and unadulterated EVIL. Think about this when you go to the polls, people. How will God judge us as a Nation, on what we have accepted into our hearts, and what we have ommitted by CHOICE…
Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, and John Kerry joined the church and remain in the church of their own free will. If they don't believe in the church teachings they should leave the church.
I have to laugh at some of these comments from liberals and Democrats. I also have to ask, especially you liberal, Democrat parents, to take a look into your son's or daughter's eyes, hold their faces close, then tell the world that child was not a human being at conception.
Archbishop Burk could not have stated it any clearer. We are taliking about the unborn Human life. Who is their voice? Have you ever noticed everyone who supports abortion is living!
As far as war goes this is not a one party issue, Democrats have voted to support every war this country has engaged in. We have never engaged in a war where every single Democrat pulled their supported.
After reading posts to this article, one thing is clear. Hardly anyone has any command of facts. What a bunch of Moonbats and hypocrites.
MOTHER TERESA WARNED THAT THE FRUIT OF ABORTION WOULD BE NUCLEAR WAR. SO DID ARCHBISHOP FULTON SHEEHAN. DISRESPECT FOR LIFE JUST MAY BRING THE ULTIMATE DISREPECT FOR LIFE…then it will be to late to repent of this modern day atrocity.
In reference to:
"You must be informed that taking the life of an INNOCENT human being directly from the womb is far different than wars, the death penalty, nukes, etc." by Tommy
NO IT ISN'T!! According to the Mageserium and the teachings of the Catholic Church, including the views expressed by Pope Joh Paul II in St. Louis in 1999, the view of the Catholic Church is that all heman life is equal, and that executing a person is as grave a sin as abortion. He said that "All executions are cruel and unusual punishment in all cases and without exception". He also said that any taking of human life except for direct self protection or under St. Augustine's direction of a "just war" is sin. And the church in 2003, 2005, and 2006 issued statements that the war in Iraq "clearly, and in no case" falls under either or these directions. Please get your facts straight before you try to argue.
Ultimately, if we do not legislate someone's beliefs, what exactely are we legislating? If not, why isn't the Biden principal a universal? I believe abortion is wrong, but I do not want to impose that on others. I believe murder is wrong, but I don't want to impose that on others. I believe stealing is wrong, but I don't want to impose that on others. I believe fraud is wrong, but I don't want to impose that on others…. Either abortion is wrong, or it is good…period.
[…] official attacks U.S. Democrats as ?party of death? Link FaithWorld ? Blog Archive ? Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death" … How many Catholics will actually read this, then again is it likely that any will change their mind […]
okay, Let's take this one by one.
1. If we go by how we feel or man's standards of correct or prudent conduct, that conduct or standard is changeable, because the human heart is wicked above all things. It seeks it's own level. Right and Wrong as decided by cultural mores have caused the most damage. The khmer rouge, hitler and his eugenics movement(lead by american eugenisists such as Margeret sanger, rabid bigot and founder of planned parenthood, as a means of eliminating blacks and so called undesirables) If there is no objective truth, we end up with humanities subjective truth. We see how that works out. Murder by numbers.
Often misquoted by the misguided, thou shalt not kill….well no, that is not what it says…it says, thou shalt not do murder. If God did not believe in war for a righteous cause, he never would have told the Isrealites to take the land from it's inhabitants, nor would he have made David King of Isreal after slaying Goliath. Abortion is murder, because it is the taking of innocent life. The death penalty is allowed in Genesis. If any man sheds the blood of another man (plainly meaning cold blooded murder when read within context) then by man shall his blood be shed. Murderers are not innocent. They have taken it into their own hands to sow destruction, and in doing so, have sowed the seeds of their own destruction.
And before someone attempts the red herring of old testament laws in leviticus, the new testament put ceremonial law to rest with the crucifiction of Christ, his blood the recompense for our sins,has made us whole through grace by faith, not works. Paul stated in romans (not a direct quote here…'one man esteems one day above another, one man will only eat vegetables, let each do his own will'. Does that mean we continue to sin? By no means. As Christ said, it is not what we eat that defiles us, it's what resides in the heart. For we are freed from sin by the indwelling spirit of Christ, when we accept his redemptive offering we are freed from the law, but not from seeking to become closer to Christ or more christlike. His attributes are found in his words, not the least of which is the sermon on the mount, BUT dont forget, he also drove the money changers out of the temple with a WHIP in a righteous rage, he was no soft pacifist, when it counted, when truth counted, Jesus fought. Therefore we put off our old selves and pick up the cross of Christ and seek to be his representatives in this world.
Last but certainly not least…Just because we are imperfect and sinful does not mean we cannot speak out about the evil of abortion. Speaking about one evil does not prohibit speaking about poverty, Nor does it negate the argument that abortion is the taking of a human life. All the human sin in the world does not negate the evil of abortion, one sin no matter how grotesque, does not negate another lesser sin, nor does the lesser sin dim the more henious one. One evil (the pedophilia of a few priests) does not mean that another priest who has not been implicated in such things can not speak about sin. Just because people sometimes do not live up to ideals and standards DOES NOT MEAN THERE SHOULD BE NO STANDARDS. Without standards, we are mere animals without dignity or humanity. Anything becomes acceptable in the name of tolerance, (which is really just lazy apathy) and even morally equal. When that happens, the collapse of civilization cannot be far behind.
Get the facts straight–Burke's objection to Crow was about embryonic stem cell research. The Church supports adult stem cell research.
I love my catholic church.
Long live our Pope.
I wonder if Burke regrets the tacit approval given by church and Pius XII to Hitler, and look forward to hearing his opinion on it?
It's about time the Catholic Church spoke out about abortion and the party that thinks it's ok.
Bravo to Archbishop Burke!!
Prayer and reparation will win the day. The Democrat party will once again be a party that supports human dignity. In the meantime, instructing the ignorant remains the crucial spiritual work of mercy.
+Jesus, Mary and Joseph, save souls!+
As an American Republican, I must admit mixed feelings about the Democrat embrace of Extinction Life Style. The famous article, The Empty Cradle Will Rock published by the WSJ a few years ago, pointed out that there are now about six million missing Democrats at the polls. This is one reason Democrats lose elections despite many advantages such as having the establishment media in their hip pocket.
I think we already have a workable compromise. We Republicans should continue loving and cherishing children and Democrats should continue terminating theirs. Over time this will also improve the American gene pool.
When the bishops and priests were screwing the kids where were you?
Why have you npot condemned them? Hipocrite !!!!!!
I'm very concerned, as a Catholic, that the church has defined life strictly in terms of abortion. In America, the church has become solely defined as the anti-abortion church. We are more than that
The United States is engaged in an unjust war, the country condones the death penalty, we have ignored the least amongst us on a daily basis. Yet as a church, we do not care. Our sole interest is in abortion and telling people who disagree with us they have no place in our church. We do not care if they agree -that abortion is morally wrong. Instead we expect that they agree totally on how we end the problem of abortion. Do you really think outlawing abortion will end abortion? No it will not. It will only close the door to confused people. It will tell Catholic women that the church door is not open to them for advice and forgiveness.
The Catholic Church is entitled to have her own rules.If you filled there are to rigid for you, you don't have to be part of it.But Nancy Pelosi, Biden and the rest of them, start to Pontify from the Halls of Congress what means a to be a good catholic .So Bishop Burke has to may clear (for us CatholIcs) the Church position with respects to the babies in the mother's womb.
Abortion IS a HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE! Without LIFE there can be no LIBERTY! ROE v WADE is the most illegal and baseless law ever perpetrated on the American people. We Catholics need to team up with our Protestant brothers and sisters to further the culture of life!
Herb: The Roman Catholic Church has already apologized for any help Pius XII may have given the Nazis. Isn't it about time that you got over your anti-Catholic bigotry?
Dave and like-minded people say:
"Some people believe life begins the very moment of conception, some like myself feel that true life doesn't begin until you are born into the world."
So Dave would agree that there is a chance that life begins at conception. Wouldn't you rather err on the side that it does indeed begin at conception rather than risk killing a human being?
We are not like the hoofed creatures of the Serengeti. We still cannot take care of ourselves the moment we leave the womb. If you really want to side with someone who shares your view and feels even newborns don't deserve to live, then you need to cast a vote for Barack Obama.
Stop taking the "I feel this way and other people feel another way" stance – and choose. Is it a human being or not? Give valid reasons why or why not – that ultimately is the question that everyone drawn to this blog needs to answer.
Sreve: He ALREADY HAS apologized for priest pedophilia. When are you going to get over your anti-Catholic bigotry?
As typical, the internet crowd rears it's ugly head with all sorts of vitriol against what is good and right.
Abortion on demand kills innocent babies.
A just war kills murderous dictators like Saddam who operate rape rooms and torture chambers.
Liberals frequently confuse good and evil for some reason, I'd like to find out why.
Abortion = Murder
Good for the Catholic church to finally stand up and condemn these pro-"choice" "Catholics."
45,000,000 Americans have been murdered since Roe vs Wade. The Democrats, more than any other party, have made it their mission to keep abortions happening. NARAL and Planned Parenthood kickback millions to the Democratic Party. Just like the Nazis who pulled the gold teeth out of their victims mouths, the Democrat party profits from the murder of the innocent unborn. If these Americans had not been murdered, maybe we wouldn't need to bring in 20 million Mexicans to fill US jobs. Maybe they would have been hard working taxpayers that could have contributed to the solvency of Social Security for future retirees. If just 10% of them were geniuses, then abortionists have murdered 4,500,000 Americans that could possibly have found solutions to the critical problems faced by our nation and the world. Those who defend abortion rights are evil.
The wages you earn for sin is death (Romans 6:23) Sin is breaking any one of Yahweh's 613 Laws found in the first five books of your Bible called The Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.(1 John 3:4) If you read Revelation Chapter 17 you'll read of a "whore" who sits on 7 hills who is teaching the world to commit fornication and abominations. Check any reliable encyclopedia and you'll find that ROME is the city of seven hills. This is where the Pope resides, in the Vatican which sits on one of those hills. He has taught this world to worship a GOD named Jesus (also known as ZEUS THE GREEK SKY GOD)who is nothing more than a false savior who is powerless to do anything for anyone.Yahshua Messiah is the true Savior sent by Yahweh to bless us by turning us away from all of our iniquites.(Acts 3:26) Iniquity is "doing away with" Yahweh's Laws as you can read for yourself in Strongs Concordance. This is what the Pope of Rome (the Holy Roman Empire) has accomplished. They have taught all of us in the inhabited world to commit fornication and partake of all abominations, i.e., eating pork and rodents, like the Capybara the Pope approved the South Americans to eat during Lent declaring this rodent a "fish" to justify this abominable practice. Read Isaiah 65 and 66 and see what Yahweh thinks of eating unclean creatures. Recently this deceiver on the seven hills of Rome mandated that Yahweh's Name be taken out of all catholic literature and songs and must not be used during mass as it is "too holy to pronounce". Google this for yourself and you'll see its true. Notice it is Yahweh whom he is against, not GOD or Jesus or Jehovah or Buddah or Allah or any GOD of this world…only the Heavenly Father Yahweh Whom is not a God nor ever claimed to be. In fact He told us not to be worshipping (serving) Gods!
The reason the Pope does not Yahweh's Name in the literature is you might get wise to who ther Creator truly is and you might start calling on Him (Yahweh) and be delivered from the destruction, diseases and nuclear war that is soon to come. (Joel 2:32) The whole world is deceived. Revelation 12:9 The Pope's time to deceive the world is alost over. COME OUT OF HER (THE CATHOLIC CHURCH) MY PEOPLE SO YOU DO NOT PARTAKE OF HER SINS AND SO YOU DO NOT RECEIVE OF HER PLAGUES. Rev. 18:4 Go TO YAHWEH.COM AND BE ENLIGHTENED.
Kirk said, <>
John Paul may well have said that, but he was NOT speaking 'ex Cathedra'. No pope has ever asserted that opposition to capital punishment is binding on the faithful. In fact, the Catechism actually specifies the conditions under which capital punishment is allowable. All American states adhere to that or more rigid standard.
Consider your ignorance relieved a little.
Let us look at two similar human rights situations:
1854 Dred Scott decision: some human beings, because of the color of their skin, are labled "chattel" and not recognized as human persons. This dehumanizing of the African American person was fundamentally immoral and yet upheld by law in mamy States. Dred Scott, who had sued for his freedom, was given the decision that, not only did he have no right to sue for his freedom, he had no right to be a free individual, the Supreme Court having usurped a God-given right (as defined in the Declaration of Independence -"endowed by the Creator")
A civil war came to be fought over States' rights and whether or not this great nation should divide over the slavery issue or not, if slavery should be abolished or not.
President Abraham Lincoln, midwestern, self-educated (not Harvard educated) lawyer chooses war (as a last resort) to defend the Union and the humanity of enslaved blacks.
Outcome: the Union was preserved and blacks were declared emancipated – free persons and granted citizenship with all its rights (even if it took time for this to be fully accepted in some places).
Lincoln was a Republican. Democrats favored slavery or were, at least, "pro-choice", to let Southern landowners decide whether or not to own slaves (perhaps out of respect to the "right to privacy"?). The South voted solidly Democratic until the late 1970's. Many opted out of the party of their parents and grandparents because it no longer reflected their values, as per the 2nd case.
1973 Roe v Wade: some human beings, because of their age and vulnerability, are labled with words like "products of conception", "blob of tissue". The result left those not yet born, but on the way, to no protection by the US government. Any reason could be given to abort under the "life of the 'mother\'" clause, even up to the day of birth. This dehumanizing of human beings who happened to be one day old or one month old or five weeks or six months led to the desensitization of our people and those who worked for this decision have also seen fit to ensconce it in the psyche the nation by ensuring its indoctrination in our children in school, our youth in universities (those born the year of the decision are at least 35 years old). It has opened the door for the hubris of the scientific community to manipulate very young human beings for the sake of "research", to strip them of their stem cells, for example, even though all credible studies have shown that adult stem cells have actually cured diseases and embyonic stem cells not only have never cured any diseases, they have caused cancer in many cases when tried. Those who want to keep the unborn child, whether embryo, fetus or zygote, in its current state of "slave" to the will of the adults who called it into being and/or wish to manipulate or destroy it at will include NARAL, Planned Parenthood Federation, and, since the last 35 years or so, the Democratic Party. Infiltrated by disgruntled leftists who could not make it on their own (socialists, communists), they have succeeded in highjacking the party and refashioning it according to leftist ideologies in the name of a self-defined "progress". The result has been a regress of our people. Since Roe v Wade, "Roe" (Norma McCorvey) has since become staunchly pro life; so also have women who have had abortions who are "Silent No More" and abortion doctors, such as Dr. Bernard Nathanson, one of the founding members of NARAL who once operated the largest abortion clinic in NYC.
The experimentation on very young humans resembles the horrible experiments carried on by the Nazi scientists on human beings, including children, during WWII.
Just as slavery did not make us a better nation, so, too, abortion on demand has not made us a better nation.
Women are more easily preyed upon by men who exploit them and then refuse to help them or, worse, encourage them to abort. Economics has become an excuse (just as it was for the slavery of the 19th century). As Nobel prize winner Mother Teresa of Calcutta once observed when questioned by an American journalist her views on abortion: "America is such a poor country. In India, we are poor, but we feed our children. But in America you are so poor you have to kill them." Again, she brought up the "A" word at a White House Prayer Breakfast during the Clinton administration: "Abortion is the greatest challenge to peace in our times. If a nation permits the child in the womb to be killed, what is to stop me or anyone from killing any other person?" Abortion has forced health care workers, called to heal and "do no harm", to become workers in the "killing fields" of the abortion industry. And, make no mistake about it, it is a multi-million dollar industry. Were that not so, groups like Planned Parenthood would not be so tenacious about maintaining it.
I have faith that Roe v Wade will be overturned. As more and more people are coming to discover the truth about the life of the unborn -new ultra sounds have also helped to bring this reality home to many people- more and more are finding the whole abortion thing so very distasteful and immoral, and the Roe v Wade decision for the sham that it was/is. It is the Republican party, the party of Lincoln which freed the slaves, which has stood more consistently on the side of the unborn child -and the elderly, the sick, the average traditional family, working people and so on. The Democrats have so removed themselves from these groups; the few pro-life Democrats have been silenced, if not exploited. They may have to do what Ronald Reagan, once a Democrat did -leave the party since, "it isn't they who left the party, it's the party which left them". It is no longer the party of FDR and JFK, both of whom would be appalled by what it has morphed into.
Moreover, the media has, by and large, taken sides -the side of the neo-liberal Democrats (neo-liberal because they are not liberal in the classic sense of being open to the viewpoints of others). It was enough to see the way Charles Gibson and Katie Couric condescendingly interviewed Governor Palin.
I believe in the common sense of most of our citizens who have been seeing through the web of lies spun by the media, spun by the Democrats, spun by the Obama camp, and they will rise to the occasion and make the right choice on November 4. When they do, we will begin to see, at long last, the emancipation of the unborn child and the end of the exploitation of unborn children.
um hello we haven't waged nuclear war on iran… wake up
It's way past time that the Catholic Church puts its money where its mouth is and stand up for the unborn. Abortion is a barbaric procedure any way you look at it and if the Catholic Church doesn't defend these innocent babies who will? There is no wiggle room when it comes to defending the unborn and these so-called "catholic" politicians must be held to account for their evil stand on abortion by the leaders of the Catholic Church. Like I said it's way past time for the clergy to put these politicians in their place.
um we haven't waged nuclear war on iran… wake up!
I am not Catholic, but I so agree with the archbishop and POPE, if you can not defend LIFE
OK… First, for all you talking about separation of church and state… there is no state sponsorship of the catholic church whatsoever, so this point is not relevant.
Second, for those of you who know this but understand the 501(c)3 status of churches and the requirement that 501(c)3's not endorse any particular candidate or party, there is are reasons there is no problem here.
1. First and foremost, this is not an endorsement, its a criticism of a political policy of a particular party and most specifically of politicians who are uneducated in certain aspects of their moral philosophy and the faith which they claim to represent. Non-profits do not lose their right to support or criticize POLICIES of any particular party or politician. (Lets not forget the Pope's vocal opposition to the Bush doctrine of pre-emption and the war in Iraq, not to mention the death penalty during his visit to the US.)
2. The comment comes from the Vatican i.e. a sovereign nation according to international law.
3. Now, those of you who talk about "The Catholic Church" having tax exempt status, I invite you to pause and reflect and think about if you really honestly think the Vatican in Rome files a U.S. Tax Return… I hope you've quickly concluded that's ridiculous.
The Church, like all other international non-profit organizations is incorporated in each place separately from the Vatican. Dioceses are each incorporated as their own entity in the U.S. and in some states parishes are only partially incorporated into the diocese sort of like franchises. Each individual parish could in theory break with the diocese or dioceses could break with Rome, although it would require a rogue Bishop because of the way the articles of incorporation are written. Each diocese or parish files its own tax exempt forms with the IRS (and state if necessary).
SO, if one parish priest in Wyoming endorses a candidate or party he endangers his parish's tax exempt status for that year, but not the entire Catholic Church throughout the nation… which I think all would agree is reasonable. Now with regard to the pedophilia cases, federal courts have decided to "pierce the corporate veil" in those cases due to managerial negligence. That is to say that while a parish may be incorporated separately from the diocese the separation between the diocese and the parish level is non-existent when the Bishop is the one moving people around. But that rule would not apply unless it could be proven that the diocese knew what was going on at the parish level.
Thus, even IF the archbishop was representing his diocese when making those comments, any tax exempt status could theoretically only be stripped from his diocese (of course assuming he was breeching the 501(c)3 stipulations – which he was not). Tax exempt status cannot be stripped from "The Catholic Church" because according to the law there is no such think as the universal catholic church as we imagine it in our heads, only dioceses incorporated in each state.
3. Now on a Constitutional note, truly the last thing the federal government (the President, Congress, and Supreme Court) want is a Supreme Court case between The Catholic Archdiocese of (x) and The United States of America. Talk about political suicide and culture wars. Not to mention there is no established constitutional authority for the 501(c)3 restriction on churches. The first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or respecting the free exercise thereof." The supreme court has primarily held two different standards, one being that government could support religious organizations so long as it did not discriminate between them, and then there is the more recent "wall of separation" doctrine. The problem for those who are against religion in the public square is that they would like to apply the "wall of separation" when it comes to government GIVING money to religious affiliated institutions however they often have no problem with taxing the churches. This view is blatantly, although often not intentionally, hypocritical. If one believes in a strict wall of separation then the wall must apply both ways. However, if you follow the school that says government can fund religiously affiliated institutions under certain circumstances then you must leave open the possibility that funding or other privileges may be withheld based on certain conditions.
You can't have it both ways, and so it is not entirely certain that the the "secularists" would win this Constitutional battle. In the end the Supreme Court could enshrine a church's right to not be taxed as part of the free exercise clause and then speech be protected under freedom of speech and priests and bishops could endorse parties and candidates outright and without penalty from the government. Instead I think we should be content to not have the culture wars explode on the federal level and remain content with the current comfortable, although vague, truce between the churches and state.
The churches that really benefit most from this arrangement are the baptists and evangelicals. The catholic and mainline protestant churches are organized into hierarchical structures (dioceses) and largely based in major population centers with parishioners encompassing a wide range of the political spectrum. They therefore are more easily exposed and make easy targets for a theoretical lawsuit. Therefore, they are careful not to breach the 501(c)3 restrictions. Evangelical churches however use a truly American strategy to gain their political sway and that is celebrity status of a select few evangelical pastors. Because they do not actually speak for an organized church at all they are impossible to penalize for endorsing one candidate or the other. Even if pastors in the large rural congregations did breech the 501(c)3 status, the government would not only have to prove it, but also have to try each individual 100 seat church separately in court rather than entire dioceses. As you can see the law favors the political power of churches that are decentralized, rual, and often radical – so long as they don't put anything in writing. So when pundits talk about the powerful Evangelical conservative vote and the near irrelevance of the Catholic vote, remember what you read here, and what you know of American history, 501c3 status is just another tool of southern white protestants to maintain their control of the country.
Obama gave the typical "pro-choice" interpretation when he said if one of his daughters made a mistake, he didn't want them "punished" with a baby. "PUNISHED". So, in the pro-choice mind…….having a child is "punishment" and the "mistake" should be terminated for convenience. 95% of all baby murders are murders of "convenience". Dress it up or try to rationalize it any way you want. They are abortions of convenience……….period ! ! !
With regards to abortion and the Democratic party's stance:
There appears to be a very strong motive for their wanting to "protect" a woman's right to choose … selfishness.
1) A woman wants to have sex and does so, without concern in becoming pregnant.
2) The woman decides she doesn't want the child growing within her.
3) The woman has an abortion.
For some reason, the Democratic party doesn't want us procreating. Their rationale is very clear as they want it to otherwise look like they're "protecting" a woman's right to choose, while the entire time they're encouraging them to NOT reproduce.
Interesting thought, is it not?
I just wish people would hold the sanctity for life and the sacred act of procreating in higher regard. We need to return to being a more responsible society.
I'm not a Catholic, but I totally agree with the church official. Plain and simple, the Democrats are a "party of death." It was the logical step for them to get the most liberal senator to run for president, and one who has voted against the unborn time after time. NARAL, NOW, and all the liberal feminist groups support Obama.
And no wonder, their sacred cow, "convenience killing," is at stake in this race.
Are you proud dems? To be linked to the holocaust of our times in the name of convenience and "equal rights" for women? What a joke. You have the blood of millions of innocents on your hands. The unborn are the most vulnerable of Americans. No one can hear their cries of anguish as they're sucked, scraped, skulls crushed, or they're torn apart in the womb. I've held three kids and nine grandkids as newborns, and I can't imagine anyone of them to have someone party to having their innocent little lives snuffed out. I know the hard cases. Almost 98% of abortions are for convenience, and not a health, incest, or rape issue. Democrats=the party of death.
this article makes me want to go and have an abortion
Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden need to find a church that aligns more with their way of thinking. They should not be a member of a church if they can't support the belief system of that organization. Religion is a choice not a birthright.
[…] Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death" – Reuters BlogsVatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research. But now that the Vatican's highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond … […]
Why does everyone seem to forget that it was a Republican appointed judge, Blackmun who made abortion legal, with Roe vs. Wade. The majority of Republicans were for abortion, even Ronald Reagan who appointed Judge Scalia, who is Catholic and said on 60 minutes show that he would not make abortion illegal and that he didnt believe a fetus was covered by the constitution. How come he is not denied communion? I dont believe democrats should be called the party of death. But the hypocritical Republicans. Out of their mouths they say they are against abortion. But didnt change laws when they could have with Bush, who didnt keep his promises.This is the example of wolves in sheep clothing.
According to science, life begins at conception.
According to Obama, fatherhood does not end at conception, so one can assume it must start at conception.
Do we want to want to help those who are most in need?
I left the Church a few years ago because I was disappointed about several things.
This comment about the Democrats, which I totally agree with, may steer me back to the Church.
Thanks for standing for something in this day of whimps.
Micheal, your argument is so ridiculous you should never be allowed to post on the internet ever again. No U.S. politician has ever threatened to use nuclear weapons anywhere in the Middle East. The U.N. is actually trying to stop the Middle East from getting nuclear weapons so they don't blow Israel off the map. Or do you actually think Iran wouldn't love to do just that. If so you truly are ignorant and should be banned from the internet and all intellectual venues.
The responses her are stunning. Like the one who argues that we need to keep killing innocent babies until we end all wars, because only then will we realise the sanctity of life. Can you truly be foolish enough to believe your own twisted logic?
And those who argue that Biden is right to argue for abortion, because while his beliefs which states that life begins at conception should not imposed on others. Basic science states that life begins at conception. Look at the definition of "Life". You may want to argue wether it in intelligent life, but to argue it is not life shows a lack of understanding of basic biology.
So if Biden believes that life begins at conception he has no more moral standing justifying abortion than he would attempting to justtify murder of full grownn adults. What next argue that we should let infants die post birth if the mother decides she does not want the baby. Only Obama could support such a sick resolution (BAIPA).
Bush met with the Pope in the medieval tower a few months ago… As you all probably know, the pope was a Hitler Nazi youth during WWII. It is the republicans that started a oil/pipeline war on behalf of Israel in the middle east and Afganistan… and the democrats are the party of death?
I know, I know, the conservatives flip reality so that their idiot class supporters will believe it, but then these poor suckers will believe anything.
Who cares what the vatican thinks? I think billions of dollars payed out to settle child molestation claims is what they need to focus on and the current pope was the person responsible for shipping those priests elsewhere and covering these crimes up.
Typical. Secular Americans have a problem with the Catholic Church, therefore the Church MUST be wrong (and we wonder why the rest of the world believes we are ignorant). Simply put, the Roman Catholic Church is NOT a pluralist Democratic institution. It is patriarchal with a singular authority figure at the top (which is not you). At no point does the Catholic Church require or even need your input. Would you insist upon using your hands in a soccer game because you dont like the rule "feet only"? NO ONE has the right to be Catholic. If you disagree with the Orthodoxy, go somewhere else. The expectation that one can be a pro-abortion Democrat (or Republican) and then insist they are Catholic speaks to the immaturity of that individual (not to mention the almost manic selfishness) and NOT the Roman Catholic Church. Nothing more.
The only reason for abortion is to rob American of its nationality. Once the legal and illegals fill the labor force and political posts then the borders will disappear and we will become the great North American Union nanny state with our own Euro and sing kumbya to our glorious leader, Obama.
If the question of when life begins is so open to interpretation, then can we extend the pre-life period to, say, up to two years old? That would give us plenty of time to really decide if we want to keep this thing that we haven't labeled a child yet. This "in the womb, out of the womb" distinction just doesn't fly. I mean one second it's a "fetus", and the next moment, with a push or the slice of a scalpel, and ta da, we have life? Head still in the birth canal? Just a fetus. Full delivery? Hmm, well, if you can't put the head back in (to perform the abortion) then we have to call it a life. Kids aren't really human anyway until after the terrible twos. So would any pro-choice proponents disagree with my choice to have a post birth abortion, so long as I do it before this post born fetus turns 2?
Any Catholic who participates in, is a party to or is an enabler of abortion stands excommunicated from the Church and will spend eternity as a damed soul in the hands of Satan for all eternity in incomprehensible torment. They have exercised their free will to choose death over everlasting life. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Thurgood Marshall and all the others who are soaked in the blood of millions of the innocents are pathetic damned souls whose departure from this life will take them straight into hell and a torment that they have lied to themselves and lied to the weak fools who kill babies. God himself said that it would be better that a millstone were hung about your neck and you were cast into the sea rather than to face his judgement with the blood of children on your hands. So, Joe, Nancy, John, Ted, Thurgood and the rest… good luck with that!
If the Vatican is using derogatory name calling and thinks the Democratic party is the "Party of death", then I suppose one could respond by saying the Vatican is, "The home of child molesters." The Vatican needs to stay out of politics and clean up it's own house. Btw, I used to be a Catholic. I am now 100% atheist. I add that in case some religious whacko, and this country has more than it's share, responds with, "You must be a Jew or a muslim." It never ceases to amaze me, in this age, that people still think there is a god or believe in that comic book without pictures called the bible. Note the small "g".
So when people know that a murder is happening they are just supposed to let it happen? I don't think so.
Yeah, and the Catholic Church is the sanctuary of pedophiles.
Where does that get us?
So you think that Republican foreign policy makes it right to stick a knife into a baby's neck or to salt poison a baby?
I appreciate the Catholic Church standing up for the poor and helpless of this world. Good for you. I am not a catholic and when my youngest daughter was entering the 4th grade of the local public school and I saw the propaganda written on the blackboard by the home classroom teacher, I took her out of the pathetic public school and put her in a great catholic grade school in Portland Oregon – St. Claire's and later into Valley Catholic High School where she received a fabulous education. Thank You Very Much. WWTerry
Joe Biden and Nancy Petosi should leave the catholic church. In San Francisco there is a church more to their thinking. It's The Church of Satan. Caio! WWTerry
if you are catholic, you do not support the death penalty or abortion. i suggest you find another religon if you intend to vote for either.
Dear Vatican,
Can you PLEASE, PLEASE get father Michael Pfleger be defrocked? He is a shame of the Catholic church.
Vatican – if we don't abort them, will you promise not to rape them?
Democrats = party of suppression, racism, socialism, elitism. Dixiecrats won't vote for Obama so no matter what the polls say McCain will be president. Not that there is a whole lot of difference between the two.
well there have now been over 50 MILLION abortions is the USA, including 15 MILLION blacks.
i would not want to be ted kennedy facing death if there is a fainal judgment.
all the other phony cafeteria cayholics are in trouble. pelosi, biden, durbin and all the rest
Michael Cecil
It ain't about Iran so get back on your knees your not finished till I say your finished
Barrack Hussein Obama
Leftist pigs underestimeate the seriousness and power of those of us who support the nationstate and are willing to fight for it. Push us as you will and see what end awaits you.
Next time, no more Mr. Nice Guy.
Individual Catholics may stray from the fold on certain issues. But when they publicly misrepresent Church teachings, they bring scandal and shame on the Holy Catholic Church. If Pelosi is such a good Catholic, she could really use some time in "the box." In 2000 years, the Catholic Church has never excommunicated anyone. Although many people excommunicate themselves by their actions, they are always welcome home by a forgiving God.
There can be just wars (and I'm not saying Iraq is or isn't one of them) but there are no just abortions. Ever.
Reading all these comments, I'm thinking about the cartoon with the sign "Morons on Parade". Are you over 8 years old? Did you gradz8 3rd grade? Maybe you'll remember that the statement "separation of Church and State" is NOWHERE in any of our laws. It was discussed in the Federalist Papers when the founding fathers were debating whether to include it in the Constitution (which they never did), which led to the first 10 Amendments (called the Bill of Rights), and the First Amendment guaranteed the Freedom of Religion. Remember any of that? The reason for how this happened in our country goes back to jolly old England, where Henry VIII committed mass murder to declare himself Head of the Church so he could screw around without any criticism. So he invented a warped version of Christianity that suited his own sex life, and then he forced it on the people at the point of the sword. Years later, if you wanted to have any authority in the upper circles in England, you had to join the Church. Here in the colonies, we wanted to cast off all ties with England, and we didn't like the way the politicians ran the Church. We wanted a Freedom of Religion. And to this day, we want religious leaders to influence the moral debate. So this "wall of separation" is a 1-way thing. We want politicians to leave the Churches alone, but we very much want Churches to speak out on moral issues. As to the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church being revoked for "preaching politics", note that they aren't doing this. They are preaching MORALITY, and that is independent of anyone's political party. As to the Church "forcing it down the throats" of people like Biden or Pelosi, they aren't doing that either. All churches (and all clubs of any kind for that matter), are composed of people who have something in common and get together to celebrate it as a binding force, as something that makes them "one". The Catholic Church is a group of people who wrote a Creed of what WE BELIEVE in common, and it has ALWAYS held that abortion is murder. If you think otherwise, you are always free to leave. In the cases of Biden and Pelosi, this Creed was there long before they chose to profess it and thereby join the Church. Today they feel different, so today, they are no longer one of "US". And that's all Archbishop Burke said, and he said it because it's the truth.
Now as to all the comments about views on war, the death penalty, homosexuality, hypocracy, and so on, the old saying goes "what does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?" When the discussion is about those other subjects, then fine, we'll address them at that time. But when it is about the Church's view on abortion, then stick to that. Arbitrarily changing the subject in the middle of a debate is a coward's way of admitting he's losing the debate, so like a spoiled child, he throws mud where ever he can. But it doesn't change the fact that he's lost the debate. Archbishop Burke was totally right in what he said, and I applaud him for having the guts to stand up to the "Morons on Parade". He told the truth. And you Morons can't stand it. I look forward to your turning 9 or even 10 years old (in other words, grow up babies).
Now lets see why the pot is calling the kettle black…
Rwanda, Spanish inquisition, the second world war agreements with the Nazi regime, the covering up of pedophile priests….oh my…this is a really really long list here….but we get the picture…
How about the Vatican come clean with all of their misdeeds….and PROVE they are what they preach…then maybe we can take their council.
Clean your own house Vatican! Stop worrying about the speck of evil in the Democratic Party's eye when you have a history of so much corruption.
Bishops and others officials at Peter's See: please, go back to molesting children and telling your parishioners not to have sex with their own spouses except on certain days of the month. Maybe you could distract yourself with a scapula, or a cat of nine tails, or some other sort of torture device during this election period. The rest of us will do just fine here in the 21st century without your input. We want our free, secular country to survive the crises created by the last 8 years of nonsense. We came here to this country to get away from people like you. K. Thanks. Bye.
I'm surprised he didn't mention Obama, who 4 times voted against giving care to babies that survived abortion, if yo don't believe this read the truth at BornAliveTruth.com
Actually none of these politicians have actually been denied communion. Accepting communion means that you follow the Catholic church's precepts. The Catholic church is a Pro-Life church, the Bishops had every right to speak up when two of their "faithful" mis stated Church teaching. On the whole "How can you be Pro-Life but Pro-War?" thing… No one is Pro-War. War can be a tool to stop violent regimes to stop people from invading other lands, sometimes it doesn't work out as we'd hope. We don't go to war to kill as many indiscriminate people as possible… But there is only one reason to go into an abortion clinic. To end a pregnancy… And what does that entail? The very weakest among us deserve better.
The concern of the Catholic Church is the salvation of souls. It is part of cannon law that any Roman Catholic who participates in any way, encourages, pays for, performs, undergoes, or votes for abortion is automatically excommunicated. If such a an excommicant recieves Holy Communion he commits mortal sin. Archbishop Burke is merely stating longstanding Church teaching. His goal is to bring such people back to the truths of Holy Mother Church. Catholic politicians who support abortion, and those who vote for them are putting their souls in the gravest danger. It is not just Amercian unborn, every year 50,000,000 surgical abortions occur worldwide, most done for purely elective reasons. That does not count the ones killed by abortifacient drugs and devices. This is a crime bigger than any in history. Those who say the Church should not speak about this most monstous bloodbath in the history of the world are fools or cowards. It is exactly the job of the princes of the Church to "suffer the little ones" to be protected. The famed separation of church and state comes from a letter of Jefferson. It applied to the federal government. Let those who think it is just a blob of tissue go to Population Research Institue and read about how our foreign aid helps spread abortions around the world. If you dare,and have the stomach for it, go to the site of Dr. Robert Suengenis where you will find a video of an actual aboriton. The democrats support all of this, it is in their party platform. And now Obama, it turns out, does not support giving medical treament to babies, outside the womb, who have survived abortions. The most dangerous place in the world for an unborn child has now become his mother's womb. The slaughter is far worse than Mao, Stalin, and Hitler combined,yet the democrats defend it all. If that is not a "party of death" non ever existed. Do we build a better future for ouselves in the blood of innocents? May God forgive us all.
Who cares what a bunch of boy-raping psychos think, anyway? Not me.
I am a faithful, practicing Catholic, and I am a Democrat. I support the party despite its position on abortion. Church teaching states that this is an appropriate result of prayerful discernment. A Catholic (like me) can and will vote on the basis of other faith-based issues including care for the poor and sick, opposition to pre-emptive war, opposition to torture, concern for the environment, etc. I believe as a Catholic I can work for an end to abortion in other ways, such as helping those faced with that (currently legal) choice. This is what my prayer has led me to. I vote Obama/Biden.
I suppose the VP debate didn't cover abortion. Biden gets to talk about deaths in Iraq, but Palin has to keep quiet about murders in America?
Again to the Dems – do you think that all your anti-Church propaganda comments "justify" killing babies? Are you trying to say that you keep that policy going just so you can be "as corrupt as the Vatican"?
Nice morality.
When the pope messes in U.S. political affairs, it is time to recall the Ambassador to the Vatican. United States was founded by persons escaping the religious tyranny in Europe.
As one posting suggested, do a Google search for "abortion images". This alone will speak the truth about this evil to your very soul.
I am adopted. I could have been aborted, but instead was allowed into this world and have had the privilege of helping many people in many ways. I am beside myself to think that selfishness could prompt individuals, claiming to be Catholic, who want to lead our country, allow – and support – the murder of the unborn.
This year I was confirmed as a Catholic. While I always knew deep in my soul that abortion was wrong, I now have the right understanding of why this is so.
The images one will find through a Google search is enough to show you the face of this evil clearly and directly.
It's interesting that people like Tony who don't care at all what the Catholic church thinks actually care enough to pronounce here that they don't care at all. We believe you! Really.
Anyway – that comment aside – I firmly believe that abortion is a choice. The same as murder is a choice. Theft is a choice. Adultery is a choice. There are also consequences and responsibilities involved. Unfortunately, the first on the list has been moved away from a civil rights issue to a political issue. Perhaps that will one day change.
It is shocks me that his eminence forgets the Democratic party's opposition to war, the death penalty, pro poor/middle class policies etc when he issues such biased statements. I am a catholic and am glad that there is seperation of church and state. The cardinal should stick to prayer.
the dems have always been
the win at any cost party
no conscience
no morals
illegal voter registration
multiple voting
it goes way back to 1960
daley won illinois for kennedy
he won the "dead vote" by 99%
complicit media doesn't help either
the rest of the world feels like a salmon
going upstream
Totally agree……the Democrats are nothing but closet communists…….they are Anti-American and destroying every fabric of this country. One bought voter at a time.
The indoctrination process for becoming a liberal is to first define all morality as relative. Next use the historical record of any group that opposes their leftist ideology to destroy it's credibilty. Of course the dishonesty of this approach is self-evident as every single organization or religion with traditional values has a history with bad chapters. For liberals, their "new" approach has no historical record to compare and so above reproach. But no, there is and it's practiced in North Korea and Cuba. Old message, new packaging.
So contiue sucking the brains out of babies and calling a choice. If you wouldn't be any more disturbed by seeing a pic of an aborted baby than you would of seeing one of a removed gall stone, then you could vote Democrat.
Way to go Catholic Church. It's about time to stand up for the Word of God and speak the truth.
By the way, it's not an "attack" if it is true.
It is only becomes an attack when the editor of this piece supports abortion on demand, and probably disdains babies and Catholics.
Hate editorship
Abotion is a matter between a woman and her God. I to am a practicing catholic and feel abortion should only be in certain cases.Don't be fooled the republicians have had a president, congress and supreme court for the last 8 years and haven't done a thing.They continue to use you.How many republicians have had abortions? The church also teaches us not to steal or kill.How many lives have been lost in Iraq over the republician greed for oil? Wake up!
It is not a sin if a Catholic believes in his heart of hearts that abortion is not a sin. What is terrible wrong is when an influential Catholic, be it a politician, journalist or an actor, speaks out in support of abortion. His words, his actions in passing laws may indeed enable someone to abort an unborn child. These same Catholics who are in the public eye could just as well say that it is a personal matter and I will not discuss my feelings on the subject.
Don't you people have anything better to do?
This is not good news for Obama…
The Catholic vote is huge and if the Vatican is challenging Biden and Pelosi's spiritual beliefs, it will trickle down to the Democratic ticket…
When the Republicans bring up going to war, its not to kill the innocent people.
I'm sure most of you know why we go to war, though i'll still educate you.
Either they (whoever it may be) attack us, or are planning to attack us, or planning to attack an ally. And when we sign a treaty to go to war if our ally does, then we have to. Or we wouldn't be a Country of our word.
When Democrats bring up abortion, Its about getting a woman's vote. I doubt they think at all about what they say they're supporting. And if you don't follow Catholic doctrine, you should be refused communion.
Easy for the church of Pedophilia to say.
Is this the same church that receives US government financial subsidies? Those same subsidies stolen from the people of the US without their consent?
Sorry stupid church but your moral platitudes make me sick. You pederasts you…
ALL religion is the root of all evil…….
It is nothing short of an outrage that the Vatican is meddling in U.S. elections.
It is the Vatican, with the despicable policies it promulgates (and deeds it covers up), that is an institution of misery, death and evil. It is dying an agonizing death, but not nearly quickly enough.
Fortunately, only the weak-minded and stupid pay any attention to these pedophiles, and they vote Republican anyway.
Abortion is about the murdering of INNOCENT life.
The fourteenth amendment reiterates our basic principles: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
What due process has an unborn child had (conversely, this clearly explains how pro-lifers like myself justify the death penalty).
"At the heart of the controversy in these cases are those recurring pregnancies that pose no danger whatsoever to the life or health of the mother but are, nevertheless, unwanted for any one or more of a variety of reasons — convenience, family planning, economics, dislike of children, the embarrassment of illegitimacy, etc. … I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. … As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court." — Justice Byron R. White.
Let's get this straight… the scariest and wealthiest cult in the world is now calling out democrats? Laughable. Maybe they will get their word across to all those abused alter boys.
Pelosi and Biden should be excomunicated.
Let me get this straight .Biden and Polosi (not to mention Obama ) are strongly against the Death Sentence for mass murderers in the USA even Child Rapist and their Killers but they are Fore Abortion .
Well that makes sense but only too a Nut and a complete Fool ….. meaning Socialist/Liberals in Politics in this Country .
Oh Yea they also see Morals as there is no Right and Wrong .
That is why Holly Weird is so Leftist and equally stupid .
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
….and this is pro-life?
The Civil War was not the answer. Is that your position, Mike? Abortion is never the answer, because no matter how you twist yourself you cannot make it anything but murder; but war sometimes is the only answer to deal with people like Hitler and others who would in fact enslave as many human beings as possible.
Blacks in America have had 9 Million Abortions since President Johnson allowed them to be paid for by Tax Payers in 1964 .
That is more Women and Men than have been Killed in all Wars America has fought in since our Birth as a Nation .Blacks shoud be mad about that but they are not ?
Of course as a Tax Payer I should be happy but I am not .
Capitalist Pig,
In Catholic teaching there is such a thing as "false conscience" that is what you are espousing. You cannot take infanticide and pretend it is OK because somehow you have twisted your thinking to pretend it is a good thing. You can try to talk yourself into these phoney positions but you know in your dark little heart they are wrong, which is why you rail against anyone who speaks to the truth of the matter.
Abortion = Murder. Those who practice, perform or support abortion, therefore, support murder. Politicians and Political Parties… EITHER or ALL… stand guilty. "Pro-Choice" is a white-washed tomb. "Pro-Murder" is more the truth. I commend the Roman Catholic Church for proclaiming simple yet profoud truth. Why have Americans of all political and religious backgrounds become so heartless, cruel and morally blind? A "Sign of the Times" it would appear…
The catholic church was a world power for 1260 years"the Dark Ages", and they won't be happy until they're at the top again. Watch out Protestant America! Study Danial and Revelation
Through all the discussion of Archbishop Burke's statement we can discern an undercurrent of emotional, spiritual and mental anguish existent in the pro-abortion comments. This mirrors the trend we see in Democratic Party politics, that of coalescing those seeking self-destruction, sexual and morally perverse lifestyles, and every manner of socially degenerate and irresponsible behavior into their constituency. Irrespective of the Constitution, they would force everyone to accept their religion celebrating atheism and perversion, under the guise of hate laws – an anti-Bible codified into law.
God recognizes the mental disorder inherent in these people, as should we. We are, therefore, duty bound to deny the Democratic Party any further access to power until such time as the spiritual evil at the core of their affliction is exorcised. Until then we must recognize that spiritual evil exists, in the same way that redemption through Jesus Christ exists. The faithful should not negotiate nor discuss these issues with those possessed of evil, rather they should fervently pray for their healing salvation. There is no disease of the mind or spirit that can stand up to a daily dose of prayer and blessing. Arguing with the afflicted is pointless.
[…] an interview with an Italian newspaper that the Democratic Party is well on its way to becoming the "party of death" in the United States. Burke called for greater discipline within the American church for holding […]
So many of these response are pure politics. The CHurch is required to uphold its doctrines and to discipline its constituents who err.
When these constituents ar high profile dems, the liberal ungodly go bizirk. The church is the church and it has taken its moral responsibilities seriously. THankfully so. WE are a nation of high moral standards, I wish that the Baptists had done this to Bill CLinton, they apparently don't have the same moral fiber.
Morality needs to stop being legislated, so we need to get rid of liberal judges who have predetermined to make us an amoral society.
I think if you idiots would take time to check it out you would see that the church has always spoke out against war. Idiots!!!
The church can gripe all they want in their city covered in gold and stolen artwork…they can shout from the highest mountain about how "wrong" everyone who doesn't believe their mindless crap is but at the end of the day the greatest thing about this country is the choices we are free to have. The Catholic church is responsible for more terror, genocide and pain than any other institution in human history. The Vatican makes the Third Reich look like a happiest place on Earth when viewed through the lens of unbiased history. Hitler wished he could kill half the number of people that the church did in it's history. They have no platform of righteousness to stand on, they are the biggest hypocrites of all time. I don't agree with abortion but I will tolerate it because it's not my place to tell anyone else what to do. If people want to take on the emotional burden of abortion that's their choice to live with. Life does NOT begin with conception…it's a ball of cells for many weeks before it even comes close to resembling anything human. If it can't survive on it's own outside the body it is not a human being…it's the potential to be a human but that's it. Instead of focusing intently on everyone else, people should focus on their own beliefs and morals and butt out of everyone else's business. The purpose of government isn't to legislate morality. Killing a living, breathing person is a crime because they are living and breathing. I agree that if you don't want a kid take preventive measures of birth control. Sex is a beautiful, natural part of life…animals engage in it for fun, it's part of biology. There is NOTHING shameful or "sinful" about it. I got a vasectomy because I want to engage in sex without worrying about a child. But the religious zealots seem to think that abstinence is the only way but all you have to do is look at how abstinence education has failed universally. 90% of all teens that take that idiotic pledge break it, why? Because it's natural and part of our biology and there is no way that will ever change. Religion has no place in the political sphere, it's just a mindless distraction from the real problems of the world…war, disease, OVERCROWDING and poverty. The government needs to focus on people that are already alive…
Its about time the Vatican spoke up the truth. The Democrat Special Interests represent a cesspool of thinking. They have gamed the system and foisted much of this filthy minority thinking into laws upon the majority. It will be like the forthcoming expose of the Democrats stuffing the ballot box using absentee ballots after the fact they got Obama elected. The American voting system is being contaminated by this scum Democrat party.Tolerance is one thing but laws are binding. This scum thinking is prevailing. We can no longer be silent. I now hate the Democrat party that I was once a member of as was my parents. SCUM THINKING LEADERS!
And the Vatican is a foreign country and it's "church" in the US needs to pay taxes like any other foreign entity operating on US soil.
The Vatican over the centuries is responsible for death and atrocity, including its refusal to allow effective anti-nADS and birth in many nations where it exercises its ignorant and outmoded influence.
Voltaire said it best: "crush the infamous thing!"
Pro-life and pro-choice are meaningless phrases. The abortion issue is about who makes the decision, the government, or the woman involved. Sarah Palin chose to have Trig, and I applaud her. Pro-choice dos not mean pro-abort. Many so called pro-life people are pro-war and pro-death penalty. One is either anti-abortion or pro-abortion. Very few people are actually pro-abortion.
Is the Catholic Church prepared to forfeit its tax-exempt status? I am Catholic and I am proud of all the Catholic Church has done for social justice in America over its long history. The safety of factory workers and the civil rights of Black Americans were hard fought. But now the church is entering the realm of personal politics in a very public way. Over recent years, Catholic bishops have found no moral issue with routinely threatening to withhold Communion from Democratic politicians, naming many (including current VP contender Joseph Biden by name). The same church that failed to weigh in on Nazism until the dust had cleared now threatens the mortal souls of U.S. politicians in a strong-arm attempt to influence day-to-day politics. How … human of them.
I say Amen to the Church speaking up against so-called Catholic politicians who espouse views contrary to their faith, let alone attempt through their political positions to even to speak about church policy. I am tired of the Kennedy Catholics of the world who act as if they are "practicing" Catholics. Describe them as practicing Democrats, because practicing Catholics they are not. I'd even go further and ex-communicate Pelosi. We don't need her.
Just think someone has probably been aborted that could have cured cancer, been a great president, brought about world peace, stopped nuclear weapons, etc….
and in the name of worshipping at the altar of abortion. Shame on you all
Jesus never advocated influencing politics as it relates to secular law ("Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's…"). As a matter of course, the Catholic Church should mind its own business when it comes to all political matters. That said, it is refreshing to see somebody within the church get something right about the Democrat Party.
Very simple solution. Excommunicate Biden, Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Pelosi and any other Catholic politician who supports abortion or any other matter that is against church policy and biblical principles. Deny them communion, a Priest to conduct their funeral and any other church service until they recant.
To all liberals who think your duplicitous remarks go un-noticed about religion having no place in "today's politics", Pelosi herself said of BHO that he is, "a leader God has blessed us with at this time." Would God bless someone who thinks that a doctor who botches a late term abortion resulting in a living child should.. "get a second chance at it"? Liberals, who mostly don't believe in God, apparently think doctors should get that second chance – BHO is no exception and he voted nay on an IL law designed to protect those innocent lives OUTSIDE THE WOMB. So they DARE claim God's blessing when it's convenient yet endorse MURDER OF INNOCENT BABIES inside … and now also, outside the womb! Party of DEATH? YES INDEED. Dear God save us from these monsters!
[…] Democrats are bearing rancid, spolied fruit, and by this fruit, we know them very well. From the Faith World blog at al-Reuters: [Archbishop Raymond] Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican's Supreme Court […]
Dear Readers,
Please read "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church" and see what really happened in the Roman Church in the early days…Besides, one can enjoy the communion rites at any church that baptizes in the 'Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit'!
The point is that all life should be protected from inception to natural death. The specific issue that separates abortion from all other issues is that it is the only life that has absolutely no chance of defending itself. The scariest part of abortion is that it pits humanity against itself, by destroying its own future.
The only medical procedure where half of the patients live thru it.
In the weekly newspaper "The Wanderer" a couple of issues ago there is an article titled "Kansas Bishops Call Voting For a Pro-Abort "Evil"" In this article the Kansas Bishops released a voter's guide that states "Catholics who cast a vote for a politician who supports abortion and same-sex marriage commit moral evil",in other words a mortal sin. It's about time that our Bishops finally are publicly stating truth. If one does not like it join the Episcipal church where they allow Gay bishops or some other watered church under the banner of "Christian" that share your views. But don't call yourself a Catholic in good standing when you know that these politicians regardless of political party are pro abortion and you go ahead and vote for them, by the way pro-choice is the same as pro-abortion. On matters of Faith and Morals it is the Catholic Church that has always teached and posseses these truths and the Bishops along with the Pope are keepers of this truth. Sounds like peoples consciouses are bothering them.
A president the oversaw more executions when he was governor than any other state in the union, the bombing of innocent Iraqi civilians, the tourture of prisoners; and the head of the "little boy rapers group" is calling us the party of death.
When we will you people out there that listen to this old fool grow up and stop following this out dated crap.
Oh by the way, go see Religulous, opens tonight.
Looks like Raymond Burke struck the nerve, Well done Ray, keep calling out the baby killers.
Remeber God spelled backward is DOG.
Hooray for Archbishop Burke for speaking truth to power. Pelosi, Biden, Carey, Kennedy and other Prominent Democrats cynically use their Catholic Religion to get elected and then go about their merry way pursueing their true religion -tyrannical socialism forced onto the masses by the wealthy elite who view themselves as god-like with powers to decide things like who is and who isn't "inconvenient" (i.e. the unborn).
The Catholic Church needs quit coddling up to socialist govermental policies and focus it's appeal on raising the individual poor person through liberty lead by Love and personal responsibility. Because Socialists like the Democratic party don't believe in the worth of the individual (especially the unseen, unborn)
well thank god, finally someone has come out and said it, yes, the democrat party is exactly that, the party of death.
(remember), sorry about the spelling.
Palin believes that the war in Iraq is a task from God. Both John Paul II and Benedict have called the war in Iraq immoral and unjust. So, who do I beleive? A former Roman Catholic or the Pope?
Party of Death? We are going to have a Death Party because we are going to have a civil war over abortion. It's funny how Cafeteria Catholics fixate on life in the womb, but once a person is expelled past the labial gates, they are on their own. In for a penny, in for a pound, folks.
The Right-To-Life people should be putting on the post funeral spreads in the church basements for the families of those killed in Iraq. They supported the GOP (God's Own Party) because they promised to be the party of life.
No Church basement? No Church?! Money for faith tends to dry up in hard times. Especially after Jesus strolled down Wall Street last month.
Bravo for the archbishop. It is one thing to disagree with the Church's orthodoxy. It is altogether another thing entirely to misrepresent it. Both Pelosi and Biden know better. Their comments are bitter, bitter words to hear from the lips of Catholics high in the American government. Much better for them to have simply said, "my conscience does not allow me to agree with Church teaching." In politics, it is too easy to misrepresent the position of another with whom one does not agree. It gives a comfort that is false and, when put into practice repeatedly, it invites comparison with the dark spectre of a lie.
Yes, Michael…the Republicans *are* the party of LIFE. If you were living in Israel I am sure you would agree. And although this article is on abortion (I happen to be pro-choice), make no mistake….if the theocracy and their thug front man succeed at developing nuclear weapons, Israel will be destroyed.
Since high profile people in the Democrat Party insist on touting their Catholic Faith as a badge of honor I see that the Church has every right to call them on it when they dis the tenent of the Faith. They don't have to be Catholic but they seem to feel they need the Church to assure their election because of the number of Catholics in their districts.
The Church has always been against Abortion and no amount of excuses from the so-called-Catholic candidates can change that so in that context the Democrats are the Party of DEATH.
The real party of death is the war mongering Republican party. If you want more war and wanton destruction of human life then vote Republican. It is ludicrous to save the lives of the unborn in order to send them off to die and kill in phony wars over oil all in the name of "Democracy".
a prolife Democrat
I really don't care what the Church says. Their history of creating and sheltering an elite cadre of child molestors should eliminate them from serious consideration in determining morality on reproductive issues.
catholics care more about the nonsense of determining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin than they do about relieving human suffering. Fine. you don't want abortion? You don't want men and women to be able to control fertility through birth control methods? Fine, let nature do it through starvation and disease. what a bunch of idiots.
All reading this were given the beautiful gift of life.
War vs Abortion – equates to – Evil vs Innocence.
This world is ruled and run by – evil – it is rampant and growing.
Abortion is murder for convenience sake.
In the infinite wisdom of the creation of all – a conscious was given to all. Uncover it – listening to it – and stop smothering it.
Our hour is near. And those who laugh – look around….
My faith and hope in mankind is lost……evil has won!
Alleluia! Finally, a man with spine!
Biden, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc., can say what they want, but to then portray themselves as good Catholics is the height of hypcrisy.
More of this from the Vatican will help clarify the teaching of the Church and strengthen the moral foundation of the faithful. For those with poorly formed consciences, this is helpful to jolt them from the hypnosis of the democrat party, aka the party of death.
See there's this thing about being a church – It has to stand for something. Good of the church to shake the cobwebs out and remember – oh right, we're supposed to teach right from wrong. Sorry that the conflicted Catholics are thrashing about with their comments here as they remember the words of their mothers and grandmothers on the truths of the church and try to reconcile that with their own life "choices" to support the ending of an innocent life. It must be hard to be wrong and have to rationalize it with excuses that ring hollow like "I know life is sacred, but we should be able to kill a baby from rape or incest…" Troubling? Good.
1) The vatican's opinions on our political process is irrelevant.
2) Anti-war nuts do not live in the real world. There exists no absolute peace in this world. If you want absolute peace, go to the afterlife. War exists here. People want to kill us because we are not them. Appeasement has never worked in all of human history, and it never will work. Read your history. These people are not rational and cannot be 'enlightened to a rational viewpoint'. Neither can the idiots who believe appeasing them will do any good. War cannot be avoided indefinitely. War can only be delayed by creating a Statist Fascist world-wide government that oppresses personal and political freedoms, which would only delay war until the oppressed people rise up and overthrow such an idiotic government. People will continue to hate other people who are different as long as such behavior is excused and perpetrated.
Ask yourself this: How would you feel if these terrorists found a way to kill 1 million Americans or more?
How would you feel if Russia managed to throw a nuke our way?
How would you feel if the Democrats won power in the House, Senate, and the White House and remade the United States of America into the Socialist States of America, betraying the very principles upon which this great nation was founded?
How would you feel if the Economy crashed to the point where only those with millions of dollars could keep themselves off the streets because the Democrats have only 1 strategy for economic change that they apply to EVERY situation no matter whether it's appropriate to the situation or not: raise taxes and tariffs, more corporate regulation, more regulation on small business, paying lower class citizens with proceeds from tax hikes for the rich and corporations (redistribution of wealth, a tenant of Socialism)…
This country has Capitalism, which is incompatible with Socialism, and our economy is suffering not because capitalism failed, but because it's clogged up with socialistic structures that have been installed by Democrats ever since Carter.
Democrats KNOW how Capitalism works, and they KNOW that the Fiscal Conservative principles lead to economic and financial prosperity for Everyone, however they WANT the economy to fail so that they can replace Capitalism with a Socialist state controlled economy. And I won't have it.
And before you try to tell me the Democrats are not socialists and are not inserting socialist structures into our economy, go and look up the definition and the tenants of Socialism. Then go look up how capitalism works.
It's true that the Republicans of the past century have been corrupt. However, they were Rockerfeller republicans who believed in Lazzier-Faire capitalism, which is predatory. That breed of Republican is nearly extinct. Neocon Republicans are Big Government and are far more far right than fiscal conservatives. Both Pres. Bush are Neocons. They do not represent the principles of fiscal conservatism and small government.
So you ultra left liberal pin-heads need to get with the modern era. The Neocons have lost power. The Evangelical Right have lost power. Palin may belong to a church that is commonly referred to as evangelical, however, Gov. Palin does not believe in pushing her religious beliefs on others, and thus will not support nor ban any laws having to do with religion. She is not a threat to Roe v Wade.
This is no longer the extreme right vs the moderate left. This is now the moderate right vs the extreme left. Any time the right or the left go extreme, the more moderate of the two wins.
This is why McCain will win this election. The average american people are seeing just how socialistic Obama is, and how moderate McCain is.
This has been a L-O-N-G time coming. God Bless the Bishop!
In response to Michael Cecil; the Republican party being the party of life has little to do with it's position on warfare and support for it's allies – Simply put, it comes down to the teachings of the Church and deeply held moral beliefs as to the beginning of life; for one to personally oppose abortion but publicly support it is a direct contradiction and shows the truth of their beliefs.
Here's a fun fact: 5 of the 7 Justices who voted for Roe were appointed by Republican presidents. Today, 7 of the 9 Justices on the Court are Republican appointees. 5 of those are Catholic Republicans, in communion with the Church. Still, Casey v. Planned Parenthood (not Roe v. Wade) remains the law of the land. Apparently Republicans have no stomach to change the current law, so go ahead and waste your votes. Our President has never proposed legislation restricting abortion, neither has John McCain. On the other hand, according to the Catholic encyclopedia, adulterous women who obtained abortions in France used to be buried alive. It must have been a great lesson to them
May I suggest that the reporter is showing his bias by choosing to use the word "attack".
"Life does NOT begin with conception…it's a ball of cells for many weeks before it even comes close to resembling anything human. If it can't survive on it's own outside the body it is not a human being…it's the potential to be a human but that's it."
Nick E. @11:50AM on 10/3 has it right.
Oh, and for all you catholics out there, the soul doesn't enter the body UNTIL the new human draws its FIRST BREATH! Coincidently, the soul leaves the body after the human's LAST BREATH!
If you ever bothered to read the Bible, you would understand the importance of BREATH…
The Catholic Church teaches that wars are possible provided the circumstances meet a specific criteria. In general, in order to be a 'just war' they must be in defense only (of either ones self or another). Frankly the war in iraq woulsd not meet the criteria of a just war and Pope John Paul II was close to saying so before he died.
Further the Church does not make a distinction between what a life is. Either it is or it is not. As such Church doctrine teaches that life is the highest gift provided to us by the creator. It is a sin to kill ones self and likewise it is a sin to kill someone else outside of the permissable circumstances of a just war or self defense. That being so why isn't the church preaching against artificial insemination or more importantly fertility drugs. This is how all those surplus stem cells are brought into the world. Clincs simply do away with unused fertilized eggs-isn't that tanamount to abortion or murder? Yet many so called born agains use fertility drugs to have kids.
We too often want to twist the Bible or a church's doctrin to a situational interpretation rather than a global interpretation. Simply murder in any form is bad so why don't we stick to that and see how things turn out.
Now a foreign state (Vatican City is a state) wishes to participate in our elections. Great. We should recall our ambassador or whatever that we have there and throw their ambassodor out of the country. In addition, lets tax ALL the assets of the Catholic Church here…and that of any other religion…which wishes to participate in the state sector.
You want to be tax free, do not interfere in the political process. If you wish to buy and sell elected government officials, you should be taxed as are the corporations operating here.
Instead of seperation of church and state, what we really needs is a seperation of Hollywood and state.
How about the vatican and the pope butt out of our politics and clean up their own house first?
I'm a life long catholic and I'm sick and tired of the church acting like it's the 16th century. There are way bigger problems we need to address.
I've been waiting my entire life for someone to PROVE to me that a soul is granted to a microscopic cell. Don't give me the tried and true "that's where faith comes in." Give me something based in reality.
Until then, quit trying to force your beliefs – that abortion is wrong – on people who don't think like you do.
Just because it's different, doesn't mean its wrong.
>- Posted by ProudProtestant
Proud, but bigoted. You wouldn't happen to belong to Reverend Wright's church, would you?
>This is just a ridiculous abuse of religious power.
No, it isn't. Pelosi and Biden misrepresented Catholic doctrine. By rights they were risking excommunication for heresy, but that was their choice from the beginning.
Let's be clear on something, shall we? Nobody is forcing Pelosi and Biden to be Catholic. They could join half a hundred Protestant churches just like yours that would sanction their pro-death positions. They haven't done that – instead, they've tried to force the Vatican to see things their way. Sounds more like Government is trying to impose its positions on the Church instead – which violates the non-establishment clause in the Constitution. They're actually trying to impose Government doctrine on abortion on American Catholics.
>This person isn't even IN the United States of America.
Archbishop Burke hasn't renounced his citizenship. In fact his status as an American gives the statement more impact than it would have had otherwise.
>How does he get off bashing American politicians?
Because they are supposed to be Catholic, and they are mis-representing Church doctrine. The Pope himself did the same thing in 2004 when he was running the Inquisition. Pelosi, Biden, etc. can feel free to keep supporting infanticide all they want – they just won't be part of the Catholic Church for much longer if they keep at it – and the Church is well within its rights to throw them out.
>They never made an oath to preach the gospel of the >Catholic Church in their position of political >authority.
No, they just took an oath to defend the US Constitution – which states that government officials cannot dictate doctrine to religious entities.
The Pope did oppose the war in Iraq very forcefully.
Catholic politicians and Catholic Democrats should boycott the Catholic Church. Remove all their tax except status in the US and demand apology from the Vatican. What an outrageous statement from a group hypocrites.
Perverts who prefer little boys to play with in the name of God. Looking down on people who do not agree with the old ways of the church to pass judgment of others. Would prefer an abusive women to stay with her abuser and belittle her saying a good Catholic would not seek divorce.
This coming from those who believe giving illegal aligns asylum in US churches is a good thing, because those aborted US babies are not in the workforce. This is why we have separation of church and state people. Too many wars have been fought because of religious beliefs so the exception is okay to KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD. Just contacted my Catholic church and informed them that we will rally together and boycott the church and statement made by Archbishop Raymond Burke. It's time for change and that goes for my Catholic church also.
I guess the Catholic church forgot about the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition and all the other wars it fought in its attempt to convert others to Catholicism, and as a result thousands died. The Catholic church should have its tax exempt status revoked for being an active participant in the political process. It should also be indicted under RICO for its cover-up of all the sexual assaults by their employees. The Catholic church speaks with a forked tongue. The Catholic church has no moral base on which to stand and their passing judgment on the moral compass of others is ridiculous.
I'm reading again about the Reformation and any opportunity the Catholic church had to burn people who didn't agree with her (labeling them heritics)at the stake, they did so with glee. Now when they are not in absolute power, they believe in life? Hypocrites!
God will NOT judge us according to our sin as someone wrote: Christian theology 101 says that 'in Adam'…we are ALL judged already…'conceived in sin' even. Our only hope is to be found 'in Christ', the second and sinless Adam…and THAT by grace, thru faith ALONE. Laz
I'm reading again about the Reformation and any opportunity the Catholic church had to burn people at the stake who didn't agree with her (labeling them heritics), they did so with glee. Now when they are not in absolute power, they believe in life? Hypocrites!
It is very interesting to see all the pro-abortion commentariat changing the subject from abortion to war, tax-exempt status and the death penalty because a few prominent "Catholic" politicians get called out for what they are, hypocrites. They are free to attend another church that permits their congregation to abort children and they can still support their beloved union thugs. Permit me to recommend the United Church of Christ.
Why are they worried about abortion in the US when there is genocide going on in Sudan? I don't see the Catholic church doing much to stop the killing of already borned children and the rape of women. I am Catholic but I am disgusted with the way the US Catholic church has behaved. So it is ok for a priest to rape a young boy but not ok for a woman to choose what to do with her body? Don't tell me what to do when you yourself don't follow your own ideologies.
Roe vs Wade should be overturned.
Based on the simple legal fact that we have separation of powers in the US Constitution. Only Congress, the Legislature, can actually pass laws.
In this case the Supreme Court (the "Judiciary) in effect made law. It is unconstitutional.
Supreme Court decisions for that reason when they come to a conclusion always states "it is the OPINION" of the Court…etc"
Let therefore Congress debate a bill and clearly vote up or down on a bill that allows killing of babies in the womb. And see how members of our Legislature vote according his or her conscious.
I almost guarantee that when it is up to each individual it won't pass. Now, conveniently they can cowardly hide behind the Supreme Court.
To Dave,
I wonder how your 8 year old child would feel if he knew that you felt like you were "living with a mistake"?
The Catholic church has been wrong so many times down through the ages. Once more that is the case.
The church is not wrong about the abortion issue. But it doesn't like that we have separation of church and state in this country, because not everyone agrees on the Church's definition of the beginning of life and thus, what the law should be.
But the bigger truth here is that the Church is very happy with the Republican party because it is more of a religious organization than a political party.
It is angry that it has no control of the Democrats and is using the abortion issue to try to change that.
I think that the whole argument is summed up by a pro-abortion guy named Dave. He says that he had sex and that it resulted in a 'mistake' that's 8 years old. His son is a 'mistake'. I feel so sorry for that child and wish that he could be raised in a loving home where he would be seen as a gift of God. That's what every child is and it's not dependent on whether you're 'wanted' or 'unwanted'. That's the difference in a nutshell – party of 'my child is a mistake' or party of 'my child is a gift of God'. Obama also says an 'unplanned' child is a 'punishment'. How can anyone think the Dems are an attractive party? Wait, their policies are always 'for the children'!
I think the dems are convincing my to be pro abortion… really they are just killing their own, and we don't have to pick up a weapon. Matter of fact, they should be able to abort to the 56th trimester.
How many bad choices can you make before you get to kill a fetus… or is it just fun???
Ok so the Catholic Church isn't perfect, but atleast today in this crucial hour are taking a stand against the HOLOCAUST of Abortion. It's so easy for people to throw the Crusades in modern Catholic Church face, when that is something that is long gone. Meanwhile the Muslims are still torturing and killing those who convert to Christianity. So while the Muslims are crusading still we are focused on a stain in the 13th Century Church. Have they not repented? I believe we are entering into a season where God is waking up the Church Catholics, Protestants to the things of His heart and we will see a huge shift.
Dear Pope,
Keep your opinions to yourself. We have separation of church and state here, you wouldn't want any of your churches losing their tax exemptions now would you?
a Libertarian
To quote Mr. Obama.
This article is obviously above the "pay grade" of most Democrats.
They have no clue as to what it is all about.
And they never will.
It is interesting to see how many feel they are a authority on religion or the Bible.
When they have never read it.
Most Democrats think John 3:16 is the men's room on the third floor.
Some here use words like"Hypocrites" and have no idea they are really talking about themselves.
Who said his criticisms had to be even? Abortion is wrong, pure and simple. Stem cell research using aborted babies is wrong, pure and simple. Any questions?
Hey dems, if you're so convienced that your amoral way is correct, why do you concern yourselves with what a church leader says? Funny, though, I don't hear any dems critising Obama's pastor Wright, or Flaguer or Fericon. Hypocrites!
To all those who will vote for Obama in Nov. because of his prochoice view and his liberal agenda. Let's remember it's was a personal choice to own a slave or not, because the common thought was black people weren't wholly human. If it wasn't for a "moralizers" and "religious zealots" who fought and sometimes died for the rights of black human beings, Obama wouldn't even have a chance to be president because he isn't human enough.
Give me a break you sick and twisted folks who believe an unborn baby is not a human being therefore is not murder. Morality always wins! Slavery was abolished, equal rights were finally granted and unborn babies will someday be given rights regardless of what you selfish proud and godless think.
If you don't believe the Catholic teachings, you are free to leave. Let he without sin cast the first stone – remember that?
Seems like it's time to remove the 501c(3) status of the Catholic churches in the states. It's fine for them to speak out against abortion, but to assign a political value to that stance is illegal for a charitable organization. I have no problem with their doing it, however… As long as their American parishes also agree to pay taxes [or become a 501c(4, of course)]. But they shouldn't be allowed to break the law just because they wear awesome hats…
The first problem with this is that it's illegal. Religious organizations in the US are tax exempt on the condition that they stay out of politics; now that Raymond Burke has inserted the Catholic Church into politics, the Catholic Church should be taxed like every other business. Hello there, IRS – go for it! The second problem is that Burke, himself, is dissenting from the Catholic pro-life ethic by supporting the Republican war in Iraq, which the Vatican has declared not to be a just war. Third, as a human being like the rest of us (although he seems to think he's better than most people) Burke has no right to judge any one. Only God can and will judge. Amen
It's about time the church has come out and stood up to these democrats.
Pat Bianculli,
do you really believe that it is possible to separate your faith life from policy? If you can, either you don't have a genuine faith life (Catholic in name only) or you are a liar! I'm so sick of religion being relegated to the "private realm" – if that is even possible!
Murder bad. Compassion good. Life good. Death, well we're working on it. When will the world wake up to the silent genocide of abortion. No fetus ever has asked for abortion.
Sexual behavior can lead to abortion.Controlling sexual behavior is possible. Controlling abortion is possible.
So it was "Unehtical" for Christian abolitionists to push for end of slavery? It was wrong for Catholics to push for better working conditions in the 1930's. Dave, Science is quite convinced and is in no argument that abortions kill human beings, is this the "Non-Religious" evidence you need to support a ban in law?
Burke is right the Democrats are the Party Of Death. They are the party of separation. They split up husbands and wives through extreme feminism and gender politics. They separate parents from their children by loosening the divorce laws. They separate men from men and women from women by supporting that there is no such thing as gender identity. They separate women from their babies through abortion. They separate people from their faith by their brow-beating bretheran in the media. Its awful
The question is clearly is why Michael has so much time on his hands. I am so sick of life's losers insisting that us winners (ie:actualy get a REAL College degree and go to work and support ourselves san the USG)…have to pay for them becasue they are such losers. Advice to Mike, wake up, get a job and support yourself. There is a new revolution in the US under belly and we are going to eliminate losers like Mike. Hey Mike, Castro is offering rice cookers to his people, why not move there. p.s. I am at the hosptial (yes, I have insurane Mike)waiting for my dad to come out of surgery, that's why I am not at work there Mike. God Bless America and God Bless Sarah Palin!!!!!
The bottom line is that an innocent baby will be murdered. The "doctor" and mother will meet their creator on judgement day. Thou shall not murder, and there is a difference between murder and killing. The baby is with God and the others will never make it.
This action, while laudable, is 40 years too late. It is a disgrace that the Catholic Church is silent about the murder of children fostered, encouraged, and paid for by the Democratic party. It is the ultimate lie for these so-called Catholic politicians to say they oppose it but won't prevent others from doing what they want. Now their standard bearer is Obama, who approves the murder of babies who survive abortions. How could any human brutally murder children the way the Democrats do.
The Church DOES speak out against the war in Iraq. Where have you people been? If you want to know how the Church interprets scripture and what its teachings are, read the "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It states that war is only moral when innocent people or an innocent nation must be defended. The Vatican continues to encourage American politicians to end the Iraq war. The Vatican realizes that withdrawl must be done in a responsible way to avoid even greater human suffering. See http://www.georgiabulletin.org/local/200 8/10/02/war/. By the way, many Dems have and do support the Iraq war.
To all of you "Obama Robots", the "separation of church an state" refers to a "state imposed religion". It does not mean the censorship of religion. If you don't want to believe in God and would rather worship crystals in New Mexico, that's your right. However, if you call yourself a Catholic, you can't have it both ways like Kerry, Pelosi ,and Biden would like to. I think that these people should be excommunitaeed from the church. Yes, the Democrat party is certainly NOT the Democrat party of our parents. It is now a branch of the international Communist party, and as such, the party of death.
I have been a life long Catholic. However, I wonder why the Church never zeros in on the fact of what happens to life once it comes into this world. We have a president sending men to war and loss of their life for his own special reasons, not facts. We have people who are homeless. We have children abused and going hungry. We have people dying with no health care. Church where are you on these issues? I am personally against abortion, but I go for the words "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone" and I think He was a bigger authority than even the Pope. More death has been caused by the war,etc.
To be Catholic and vote for Obama is a sin. Sometimes you can go to jail for being guilty by association. In this case I see voting for the party of death as a sin and putting people's mortal souls at risk. Obama supports killing babies so long as the mother wants the infant dead. In the event that the baby is accidentally born during the murderous event Obama supports letting the viable baby die…because the mother wanted it dead. The truth is that abortion is a barbaric procedure that dismembers the baby to remove it from the womb. All Catholics have an obligation to vote for life and to not tolerate this barbaric sacrilege.
It's really amazing how so many recoil from TRUTH. Whether we like it or not, one day we will ALL have to face the TRUTH alone in the real "no spin zone".
Roe v Wade is a moot point. It is not based on the will of the people as the people were prevented from voting the issue. Roe v Wade is a decision of a handful of people in black robes who have imposed their ideology on all Americans.
The black robes, in the name of "social evolution," have again usurped American's of their rignt to self-govern.
The word of God has taught me what the Catholic failed to teach me and that is "Judge not." It is blasphemous for Vatican not to introduce the word of God, the Bible into their congregation and instead brainwash them from infants into their adulthood with their hypocritical dogma. The Vatican must begin to look back into their shameful closet and stop being judgmentally political and instead spread the truth from the Bible. This pious falsehood image of the Vatican is what the Blessed Virgin Mary reveals to some; weeping and lamenting of the prostituting portrayal of her and son, Jesus Christ. Do not pick part nor shape parts of the Ten Commandments and politicize to cover up the despicable shameful past, but live all the ten.
I have read all the post here – and there have been some duzzies…..
"This is why McCain will win this election. The average american people are seeing just how socialistic Obama is, and how moderate McCain is."
Jason – exceptionally well done……that – was a point – set – match – homerun!
"If you've never carried a child, and would never risk your life for your country, then shut up and go to bed. Your opinion doesn't count."
Shelly – yours made me laugh the loudest – a virtual kiss to you…
Off topic – I have lived and worked in the mid/east for the past 16
years. I'm no expert, but this to those – who feel today's war in Iraq is not justified….
I have looked into the eyes of the enemy – and the enemy is You!!
I love how libtards get all preachy about "don't legislate your beliefs onto others" when they consistently legislate their own beliefs onto others. Isn't it libtards legislating that homosexual marriage must be recognized by everyone. Isn't marriage founded in a religous belief system? Doesn't that mean libtards are legislating thier beliefs onto others?
Isn't it libtards that legislated that banks must lend money to people who cannot pay it back. Didn't this idealistic dream just explode all over the economy. And aren't the very people the libtards think this was going to help going to suffer the most?
Isn't it libtards that legislated that prison is about reforming people rather than punishing them and keeping them out of society. So now child rapists are routinely set free to victmize more innocent children, theives rob more innocent people, and murders have the opportunity to kill again. This is why I support the death penalty, libtards cannot be trusted to keep evil people locked up.
Libtards just make excuse after excuse for being socialist passivists and have no moral foundation whatsoever. And I know any libtard reading this will think I am a religous nut. But I am agnostic and haven't been in any church in over 20 years. I dislike religion. But I disagree strongly with liberal social engineering as it is selfish, idealistic, and naive and anyone with sense knows it.
Since the bishops have taken a vow of obedience to the pope, one can assume the bishops are representatives of the holy see which has diplomatic relations with the US. Therefore any bishop who refuses to cooperate with local law enforcement and prosecutors re: sex abuse scandal should immediately be declared persona non grata and will be deported to the vatican.
So much for the separation of Church and State….
Other than for a SMALL percentage of Catholics, who cares what Rome has to say.
Read my book, "TRUTH TO POWER: The Pope Has No Clothes"
I'm a BORN and raised Catholic, who has been Born Again.
RIGHT TO CHOOSE! who is ANYONE to cram THEIR beliefs down my throat? if you don't WANT an abortion when raped, birth control failed (yes, that DOES happen) then by all means do not seek one out. however, if you DO choose that route…its YOUR decision. NOT anyone elses.
I am so happy that our Church is trying to form catholic concience. Most catholics do not know what our Church teaches and get very confused when some in the Church do not follow it's teaching. I'll keep praying the our leaders in the church.
To Tom L.: The Church does teach against artifical insemination and the intentional practice of creating multiple embryos and killing the "extras".
To those who say that the Church is hypocritical for being against war when it commited atrocities such as inquisitions and crusades: The Church is made up of sinners, just like any other human institution (teachers, doctors, laborers, non-Catholic Christian leaders, politicians, etc.). Many members of the Church sinned in the past and sin now. Even so, the Church's teachings never included unjustified war. These things happened because the members of the Church ingnored the Church's teachings. We are blessed that we live in a time when the Church's members are more aligned with Christ's teachings than any other time since Christ walked the earth. Members will continue to sin, just as all humans do. This is no reason to chunk the church that Christ founded. God will work things out in his own time and his Church will prevail against the gates of Hell until Christ comes again at the end of time.
If a bishop said 1+1=2, but then said 2+2=5 would the bishop have been wrong about 1+1?
Anyone who doubts that a human person is such before 9 months should visit their local hospital's NICU and see the preemies. See which ones you'd agree to allow to be killed.
What are the consequences of being wrong about abortion? They could be considerable for the woman and maybe others too; but, how does that compare to being killed and being responsible for the killing?
If Republicans and Catholics are wrong to be hypocritical war-mongers, desiring to kill everything but unborn babies, then surely all that killing must be wrong. If you're against all that killing isn't it inconsistent to be supporting letting babies be killed?
Unfortunately, the Catholic church is only partially correct. The fact is, that Democrats see children as "unsuccessful abortions" – ones that slipped past the goalie (AKA Dr. Tiller). The ones that survive are then sent to liberal re-education camps (AKA Public Schools), then have to run the gauntlet of constituent groups (NAMBLA, Gay/Lesbian/Transgender grooming, etc.). The ones that survive and express Good Thinking are then registered as Democrat Voters – whether they actually vote or not. Rejects of all of the above are seen as conservatives.
The truth of the matter is that calling the Democratic party the party of death is a severe understatement. They are more insidious than radical Islam, by indoctrinating and sexualizing the children they aren't able to kill.
>- Posted by Tom. L
>The Catholic Church teaches that wars are possible >provided the circumstances meet a specific criteria. In >general, in order to be a 'just war' they must be in >defense only (of either ones self or another).
Iraqi civilian deaths since 2003 – 90K
Iraqi civilian deaths due to the 2003 invasion itself – less than 8000.
(Source – www.iraqbodycount.org)
Conclusion – vast majority of civilian deaths since 2003 have come about as a result of the foreign nationals who came in to fight on behalf of Al-Qaeda.
Conclusion #2 – Decrease in civilian deaths since August 2007 was due to increased security, thanks to greater troop strength from the US and indigenous forces.
Iraqi civilian deaths under Saddam were quite a bit higher. 182,000 in the Anfal campaign alone, and about 30-60K during the Shiite revolts and the Marsh Arab clearances.
>the war in iraq woulsd not meet the criteria of a just >war and Pope John Paul II was close to saying so before >he died.
Gulf War I met the criteria, though.
And that action never formally ended. A cease-fire was in place instead, as the Coalition and the UN found it necessary to use the threat of resumption of hostilities as leverage against Saddam not following the terms of UNSC 687. Saddam didn't follow terms. Hostilities resumed.
If you disbelieve any of this, feel free to check out the details on your own.
For those of you who want to bring the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition into this discussion, you better get more informed about the facts. The Inquisition was a STATE inquisition not completely sanctioned by the church. The crusades, although sanctioned by the church was not sanctioned for all of them. The crusades, especially the first, were to liberate the Christians from Muslim who were being killed in vast numbers (as were the Jews).
The jest of this article is that catholic leaders, who profess their catholic faith as the most important part of their lives, are being told to live their faith through their actions. To interject that this is a republican problem and that we may nuke Iran is absolute nonsense. The duties of every christian is to first let their friends know when they are wrong and are in sin. If that doesn't right the wrong, then it is the christian's responsibility to publicly tell them they are wrong. We need to be constantly told how to get to heaven and if it is by public humiliation than so be it.
And mikefromnyc, you are a typical 'noreastern liberal who is absolutely misinformed. Did Sister Rebecca step slap your face during biology?
How refreshing to finally have the Church speak out. It's long over due. The majority of Democrates are against life.
Wow, sure is a lot of hate out there for Catholics. All of you with your condescending comments need to go out and realize what a beautiful life you have and be thankful for it. If you can't, go get a gun and put yourself out of our misery of listening to you, although I must tell you the Catholic Church will be against you committing suicide, so you may then have to stick around and write how out of touch the Church is.
The Vatican is against anything that takes a human life, be it abortion, war, euthanasia, etc. No-one here should even begin to explain when the soul enters the body because nobody knows, that is why the church takes the position it does. There are only three beings that know: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. For all we know, the soul doesn't enter the body until we are ready to die, so using that argument, most of you here should probably be aborted as you don't have a soul.
And lastly, those of you that are going back 500+ years and comparing the churches actions then to now ….. get a life. I would love to see you hold a medical discussion comparing how 15th century doctors could better perform brain surgery on a modern day person by drilling into the persons head to let a demon out.
When did infanticide become a virtue?
Catholic church has zero credibility. Even ignoring the way they played a shell-game with pedophile priests, this is an organization that preaches meakness, and speaks of the ills of wealth and power yet covets both like no other organization on the planet.
Now doing abject political advocacy? Time to lose that tax-exempt status. The Vatican is ridiculously wealthy…strange being that Jesus was a simple carpenter and threw the money changers out of the temple yet the Vatican itself is decked with finery and gold.
Archbishop Birke is doing his job – is he supposed to remain silent ?? I support him 100%!!
There you go, I totally believe that the Dems are not the Dems of the past, these are socialists, that are taking advantage of the American people. We have to wake up, they are criminals, corrupt, Hollywood garbage, emotional disturb who are out for themselves, and don't really care about anyone else. The are for abortion and Obama should be ashamed of himself for allowing partial birth killing of innocent babies. This is not right, where are their values. I was a Democrat for many years, until I grew up and became mature. I could not agree with a party, that had loose morals, and whose values lay in the gutter. GO MCCAIN and PALIN, millions of us our praying for you…..
Well, it's a bout time. The Democrats are so fixated on abortion….for them it's almost a sacrement.
So just because somebody is a political leader they are supposed to never speak out about their beliefs? What has happened to the world today? There are people actually standing up for the right to slaughter babies? There are people that actually say it is wrong to speak up for God just because of your position in society? I feel sorry for all of you the day you stand in front of the judgment seat and have to explain why your words lash out in blasphemy. Woe to those who speak such trash. Your day will come. Repent now or suffer for eternity by the hand of the King of kings.
The Catholic Church and all other faiths or non-faiths have every right to instruct and correct those who lay claim to the membership. In this case, the Catholic Church was simply correcting two members – Pelosi and Biden – who claim membership in the Church and yet, deliberately speak IN ERROR as if they are scholars in church dogma.
Furthermore, Church officials have the right to speak in a cautionary tone as an example to the rest of the faithful. They have the right to "instruct" the faithful.
For those of you who react so vehemently against anyone "legislating their faith," you really should be INTELLECTUALLY HONEST and disagree with the position or opinion stated rather than rant & rave about people who live what they believe.
Violent advocacy of abortion, is repugnant to God. That's not negotiable, nor can any pseudo-intellectual drivel change that.
Take away these people's tax exemption. They've become even more annoying than the FLDS. And the FLDS pays taxes! The Catholic Church rapes children. We need to shut these super-clowns up.
Religion has no place in politics until it starts paying taxes. I am tired of hearing what this bishop or that mininster has to say about it. Put up or shut up, thats your choice.
This article is not about the republicans.
This article is not about clergy sex issues.
This article is not about wars, past or present.
This article is not about past practices hundreds of years old.
This article is not even about a specific political figure.
I could check, but I'm pretty sure we do not burn heretics anymore.
It is an opinion piece about respect for life.
When your party/canidate/views are criticized, if your only defense is pointing to other things and going "Oh, yeah? What about….", then your position is weak indeed. Thou doth protest too much.
Sorry, trying to create guilt for actions in the 14th century really doesn't constitute an argument.
Obama and his party have moved far away from where any of us should be. His heart may be in the right place, but his views do not mesh with the mainstream, or with Our Faith.
Biden and Pelosi should be excomunicated to make the point perfectly clear.
It is apparent many here posting comments are not Catholic. The Catholic doctrine states "thou shalt not murder", which when translated from its original text to English, came out "thou shalt not kill".
Murder has an entirely different meaning than kill and we Catholics need to remember the difference and the ORIGINAL text as it was written.
Abortion is murder. War, and all that goes with it, is a necessary evil on this planet and is in no way at odds with Church Doctrine. Obviously it isn't praised, but also not condemned either.
So, if you are going to talk about a subject in which you have no knowledge, at least read a little bit before you comment.
The Bishop is right in this statement (although I have disagreed with him on many others). Democrats, with their willful adherence to abortion, are the party of Death.
People have differing views on when life begins, but God doesn't, and I'm excited to see catholics stand against the killing of helpless children. I'm not catholic, but I support the vatican's position here – and they're right for excluding politicians who and pro-abortion. This isn't about who's the "party of life;" it's about the church taking a stand against an unconstitutional, unscriptural, rampant evil that has killed almost fifty million babies since 1973.
Abortion is murder.
Apparently, the irony of the democrat hypocrisy is lost on the democrats themselves:
They support pre-birth abortion of the innocent;
they support partial-birth abortion of the innocent;
but they DON'T support 'POST-birth abortion' (aka capital punishment) of a criminal guilty of murder.
Yes, the Vatican is correct on it's view of the demoncrats.
I don't consider anyone who has an abortion or someone who performs an abortion to be "sentient".
We are regressing as a society, yet those who support this barbaric act claim to be enlightened.
Pat's question:
"What would the political landscape in America look like if religion was totally eliminated from the discussions?"
My answer:
Like Russia. They have done wonderfully in the last few decades. Right.
Who cares? I think it's laughable that the Church thinks the Democrats are "the party of death" when you consider that abortion rates go up during Republican presidencies and down during Democratic. Let alone the observation that abortions go up in countries that ban it completely. I guess they don't teach logic in the church anymore.
Funny, the Catholic church burned untold thousands at the stake for heresy. The Republicans start a war with lies and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, and thousands more in Afghanistan. And these hypocrites call the Democrats the party of death because they don't want to "FORCE" women to have children that they can't afford. God said to be fruitful and multiply, not destroy the world with over population. No wonder Christ called church leaders "SONS OF VIPERS".
Archbishop is taking a strong moral stand and I applaud him for that. Killing unborn babies is a lot different than defending ourselves against evil lunatics who would destroy the West. The democrats are the party of death, socialism, whining, victims rights and all the the other bad things that are tearing America apart. Some of them know what they are doing because they want to destroy us, but sadly the masses hear Obama make a speech and think if he is elected they will get a great job and all will be well. It is sad and scary at the same time.
I dunno…the way democrats have turned abortion into a secular sacrament is grotesque enough, I think, to warrant the label "party of death." If the shoe fits….
The Catholic Church is out of touch and simply does not understand one of the principles the United States was founded on; the free, unfettered, exercise of religion. In order to achieve this religion needs to stay out of politics and out of American laws. A political candidate's personal religious beliefs or dogma is not an appropriate foundation for law making. In this way, supporting the abortion right is not incongruent from their own personal beliefs. By Sen. Biden and Speaker Pelosi are merely exercising their good professional judgment and keeping their personal religious teachings out of the abortion debate, they are merely fulfilling their role in representing the whole of their constituency be it Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, or any other religion. They have to respect everyone's rights, without espousing the beliefs of one religion.
Abortion is murder, but I'm still hoping that leftists will go extinct so I no longer must suffer such low quality humans. Democrats please continue to abort your young and make homosexual the survivors. In a few generations people will theoretically appreciate life and normalcy again. I do wonder to what extent someone must loathe themselves to encourage infanticide and homosexuality. When will your subcultural suicide be complete?
I propose they do a dna test on all babies about to be butchered in the womb. If the test comes back positive that the baby's dna is identical to the mothers dna then she has a "right" to kill, murder, abort, or choose. If however the dna comes back human and seperate from the mothers dna then it is not her body and she does not have the right to murder(except in the very rare case that the pregnancy could cause the mother to risk her life…not her health…we all know you can't give a loophole to a dem…they would say "mental health" and then proceed to chop and hack the baby into little pieces)her HUMAN baby!
Party of death is guite apparent. It seems his holliness is coming to this party very late. In any case, 60 million dead babies cannot be wrong. The stats are deploable. It takes one million rapes to produce one pregnancy. Thus sixty million dead children are justified for 60 out of six million occurences. Such stats could easily support the reinstitutionalization of slavery and the dissenfranchising women. This mess did not just become deplorable. Like cord wood, these little bodies have been piling up since the 70's. Where was Rome when all these fetus were burned and which party do they think sanctioned these deaths?
And this from the Child Rape Central?
To all the so=called Catholics, if you don't like the laws or beliefs of the church go to another denomination, the priests, bishops, arch=bishops, and Pope have a right and duty to speak out!!!!!
And to all those that say remove the Catholic Church's taxempt status…there would not be a single black church left in the USA. Do you think Obama's hate whitie, hate jews, hate the USA "church" should be in existance? Or is their tax exempt position just more political big brother tricks? All you need for "BIG BROTHER" is a polital party in power to be in bed with the media(CBS ABC NBC CNBC CNN NYTimes, LATimes, ChicagoTrib, San Fran rag, WashPost, Hollywood, Television, etc etc etc).
Comments that bring up events that happened 1000 years ago are just laughable. For years, Democrats have been getting away with creepy and ghoulish pro-abortion stance with the logical fallacy that they support a "choice" not abortion. Absurd. Now they're getting called on it and to judge from the shrill screeching tone of these comments, the Archbishop has hit them right where it hurts. Love it.
The "culture of life" does mean that we respect all life and although we are not single-issue voters, we do recognize that some isssues such as the killing of an innocent baby is different than killing a convicted murderer. Some things are just "intrinsically evil."
I urge all American Catholics to review the document Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship: A Call to Political Responsibility from the Catholic Bishops of the United States at www.faithfulcitizenship.org to enlighten themselves on the truth about the way true Catholics should vote.
His Excellency is preaching the truth! Keep it up 😉
it's never been a secret how the Catholic Church feels about abortion and when life begins. And people who are worried about a Catholic voting from their beliefs, I say people do it all the time whether your a catholic, baptist, muslim or athiest or whatever. I mean hey, you got the Teachers Union and Teachers wearing Obama pins and encouraging teachers to wear blue in the classroom and teaching children to sing Obama messiah songs. Jees, Everybody is a hypocrite!! At least you know where the Catholic Church stands. And if a member doesn't like it a member can always leave.
The religion whose rabid antisemitism promoted the Holocaust, labels the Democrats the "party of death."
Why is it that people who are
pro-abortion live their lives
making excuses for this
brutal, life- ending choice?
The only way to make the Religious zealots happy would be to elect the Pope to be president of the United States. Oh wait…not all religions believe the Pope is the head of their church.
What to do? Maybe we should form a government that seperates the views of Church from the laws made by the State.
Christ and the Apostles require us to share our beliefs and Christian values with others. The post-abortion experiences of women are as real as it gets. You would have us all live in a world without Christ. You do not write as a Christian, but as a worldly and selfish, shallow man.
You are far from Christ.
Burke is gutsy and right to do and say what he's done. It is Pelosi, Biden and other pro-abortion Catholic Dems who are out of bounds, trespassing on Church teaching, and Arch-Bishop Burke is calling them on that.
They don't get to get away with purposefully misrepresenting Church teaching, unchanged since the 1st Century. And ita simply a fact that the Dems are the party of death – they want more abortions, and more euthanasia. That's just plain choosing death – period. Everyone knows that.
The reality of the matter comes down to this: People are of a particular faith for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is family history.
Unlike Islamic faiths or the Jewish faith and others which are so distinctly intertwined to the fabric of society in certain parts of the world, faith here in the US is mostly an ancillary item.
That is our societal makeup is so diverse such to mean that no one faith uniquely dictates the policies and actions of our government or citizens.
People have the right to disagree with tenets of their faith. That's their choice. The same thing is true with regard to party affiliation.
Biden and Pelosi can be Catholics and disagree with the Church's view on certain issues, just as they could disagree with tenets of their party if their faith dictates they hold a different opinion.
We cannot be terribly surprised to see the Catholic Church decry those who have a counter opinion to theirs in terms of abortion. However, I find their words distasteful and inappropriate.
This is why it's always funny to me how intolerant many highly religious people are, all while claiming they're the only ones who care for peace & harmony.
It just shows you that people (including Clergy) are too often only tolerant of views they agree with.
All of you patriotic, suppose to be intelligent and good Americans got your heads still in the sand! Catholics and especially those who serve in the vatican, parishes, and dioceses have abortions. Why haven't you heard of the stories the reformed nuns tell of the behavior of the rapist an pedophiles who call themselves priest. Their hypocrisies makes me want to vomit. Mr. Burke needs to start right in the position he has been appointed to rid the Whore, Satanic Blaspheming church of its self inbreed sodomites. Further more the catholic church has no right, none whatsoever to speak for the Righteous Lord Jesus Christ. The catholic church sits highly in opposition to the word of God Almighty. It practices what God says THOU SHALT NOT and it does not practice what God says THOU SHALT. GOD–JESUS CHRIST DID NOT LEAVE A SO CALLED SELF MADE HOLY SEE TO SEE AFTER MANKIND. We can go to our FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN FOR OURSELVES,and not by some fake beads called the rosary and confessions.
Hey Obama supporters, the black race is being aborted by black women everywhere at the highest rate of all races. In fact, research it and you will find Planned Parenthood promotes it. Just think another Martin Luther King has probably been done away with in the name of worshipping at the altar of abortion. I guess we all will find out what Our Lord thinks about taking a living human being from the womb when we all meet someday. Is it not better to choose life and let the chips fall where they may? Stop this nonsense and choose life always!! Adoption is a beautiful and wonderful choice, look into this option and see what a wonderful future a child could have.
For the purpose of power and greed, the early Catholic Church emacerated the original teachings of Jesus and started the Christian religion on a trajectory of devastating misinformation. Jesus would not approve of what passes for Christianity today. Everyone owes it to themselves to research the early esoteric/gnostic tenets on their own.
In truth, Life is eternal….beginning-less and endless.
God Bless the Catholic Church. Barak Obama and Joe Biden offer the most liberal ticket in the history of the American Republic. We need to protect life. Life of the unborn and the lives of those in Iraq and around the world that face the threat of terror.
It's about time, and where are the American bishops?
After this election Roe v. Wade will be overturned, it is the will of the universal church . Women will know who controls their bodies, men do .Wire hangars are not surgical instruments. Hospital emergency rooms, prepare for the carnage !
I am personally opposed to slavery, but I would never impose my views on the slaveowners.
Life begins at conception, period. Those Democrats who call themselves Catholic and yet endorse ABORTION are not Catholics, for they do not follow the teachings of the Bible and Church. Pelosi, should attend, as a writer above stated the "Church of Satan" in San Francisco, as far as Joe Biden and other Democrats who call themselves Catholics, they lost their way and should be excommunicated. Many of the statements are critical of the Church's statement. You have that right. However, we Catholics who firmly stand with our Church will follow the church that Jesus Christ himself directed Peter, the apostle to begin, i.e., the rock of which his church will be built upon. Some of the writers, complain about so-called atrocities over the years, and emphasize WWII. Evidently, they don't realize, the church was operating in secret, saving hundreds of thousands of lives by providing places for all the people Hitler wanted to kill, from Jews to Homosexuals. The church was protecting life, as it does now. Even though homosexuality is sinful, saving the life of the sinner is very important to our Catholic teachings, as every life is a gift from God! Pelosi, Biden, the Kennedys and all Democratics who call themselves Catholics are lying to theirselves.
Isn't it odd that this Bishop found this the correct time to issue this statement? I guess it's all about timing. And yet, as some of you pointed out, a deafening silence about the issues of torture and the ongoing war. I left the catholic church about 8 years ago when the Vatican agreed to meet with the the warlord W. Even though John Paul read a statement about the war and torture, no big outcry came from ANY OTHER of the church's princes. A big change from the parish activism against the Vietnam war.
Just for clarification, The bible in the old testament is written in Hebrew. The commandment, "Thou Shalt not Kill" is the King James translation in middle English. The word used by God in Hebrew is to Murder, not kill. God was telling us not to Murder. Murder is to kill someone for personal gain or satisfaction as in a crime of passion or robbery. War is not Murder.
Everyone is missing the point here. I have more respect for an atheist then a hypocrit first of all. I used to be catholic and no longer am. If you say you are catholic and want that title then be a catholic period! Don't say you are a member of an organization be it religion or political and not expect them to come down on you for not agreeing to the member rules. You agreed to believe in your church's view the minute you joined then go on in public about boasting on being catholic to get their votes. The catholic church has every right to come down on any member if you don't agree with their core beliefs then leave as I did period, but to stay and pretend that you can be a public figure and think you will go uncriticized by your church is stupid, hypocritical and typical of our politicians.
People who try to equate abortion with war clearly have no understanding of Holy Scripture or the personality of the God of the Bible, and they likely don't care. The God of my Bible commanded Saul in I Samuel 15 commanded King Saul to go and slaughter the Amalekites…"This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, CHILDREN and INFANTS, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
The God of the Bible clearly states that the child in the womb is a living sould. He also, throughout the Bible, authorized war and the killing of "innocent" people in the process. Sarah Palin's quote has been blantantly ripped out of context (like an aborted infant from the womb). She prayed that we were doing God's will in Iraq…in other words, asking God that he help us do the right thing. Obviously, war should only be a last resort, and I'm not saying that all the reasons for going to his war in particular were correct.
I would like for someone in the pro-choice camp to give us some Scripture that would authorize abortion. Some example where it happened in the Bible.
I think most of you are missing the point of the Archbishops remarks. I believe his intention is to influence Catholic Democrats to be both, not just Democrats who say they are Catholics.
If life begins at conception, and you believe it, you have an obligation to fight for the life of those who can't defend themselves. If you don't believe life begins at conception, you're rejecting Catholic teaching. That's okay as long as you don't represent yourself as a Catholic.
The Vatican is the Biggest SCAM in the HISTORY of the WORLD…do some google searches on the SCAMS, Corruption and pure Evilness of the Vatican…I was once a catholic until I woke up from my slumber…these people are the epitamy of EVIL!
About time the Church stood up against infanticide. Where have they been?
C.D. Walker, please study your Bible carefully and consult an authority. The Bible does not condemn war outright. Have you read the Old Testament? It's filled with accounts of war, some more just than others. For those who disagree with war outright, I respect your beliefs, but do not misrepresent the Bible. "Thou shalt not kill" is left slightly ambiguous in the English language, yet if we return to the original Hebrew, "thou shalt not murder" is a much more accurate translation. Ask someone who speaks Hebrew. Linguistically, there is a stark distinction between murder and war-motivated killing. Yes, it's very true that those who engage in unjust war will have to answer to the Judge. No, war is not pleasant. Notwithstanding, killing the innocent, those that have no voice, is quite different than engaging in conflict with the enemy.
Thankfully, our mothers didn't kill us in the womb so we could live to debate the morality of killing others. How unfortunate for the nearly 50 million people whose mothers did kill them in the womb that their voices will never be heard and their opinions never known.
Great post Mary! I'm right there with you! The doctors and the politicians that support abortion need to be doing time for murder! They're playing God!
When a person is pronounced dead it is because they do not have a heart beat. That said, a doctors ability to hear the heart beat of the baby in the mother at such an early stage in the pregnancy means…. It's alive!
And his church is not responsible for untold suffering because of their position on birth control?? What a douchbag..
Where was Archbishop Raymond "Demagogue" Burke back when Pope John Paul proclaimed that there no moral or legal basis for war against Iraq? Where was his passion for "life" then? Why wasn't he taking political sides back then?
Hypocrite! Put your own conflicting values in order before pontificating to others on their beliefs!
Pope John Paul II reminds us "Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights–for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture, is false and issusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum dtermination."
It looks like the Church is finally putting the fundamental issues of our faith ahead of the collection basket!
Hey Michael, its typical of you lefties to try and morally equate two seperate issues in order to try and make yourself feel better about the facts. You can't see the difference between standing up for the most INNOCENT FORM OF HUMAN LIFE and a lunatic islamic leader who wants to eliminate a whole nation. You can't deny he has said this and you purposely overlook this. As far as peaceful use of the uranium, Kim Jong Il said the same thing and look what happened.
Pope John Paul II reminds us "Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights–for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture, is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right and the condition for all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum dtermination."
It looks like the Church is finally putting the fundamental issues of our faith ahead of the collection basket!
One small phrase sums it all up.
"End Of Time"
Thank you Catholic Church-even with all your recent troubles- for FINALLY climbing into the fight to preserve the life of the unborn in a forthright, public and understandable way. ABORTION IS MURDER-NO QUESTION. In no way can any so called legalization of abortion supersede the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT KILL".
The democratic party can talk all they want about women's right to abortion but that cannot justify in any way the killing of the innocent unborn.
What has been unleashed on all of humanity is a hideous evil that will ultimately destroy us all. And the democratic party is seeking a VOLUNTARY VOTE in the November elections to continue this second holocaust.
So far since Roe v Wade, 50,000,000 lives have been snuffed out. HOW LONG SHALL WE CONTINUE DOWN THIS ROAD?
Just for the record, neither the Repub or Dem parties should be labeled as either the Party of Life or the Party of Death. It is nothing more than inflammatory and devisive. The discussions(?) on this blog were very enlightening about the hate and intolerance that still exists fostered in the name of god.
Right on- nice to hear voices not spouting the PC media biases !!
Those people who do not know Christ are confused by the statements of Christians, which is predicted by the Bible. They cannot possibly understand the culture of Christians because their eyes do not see and their ears do not hear the truth of real life and freedom in our Savior.
It's amazing to see the defenders of abortion twist and gyrate to escape the simple point of the story: the Catholic Church condemns the killing of innocent an defenseless human life, and sometimes (not often enough, I think) rebukes those who publicly defend it. It's a simple position. It's not improper that any church should publicly explain its beliefs in the context of current events.
But those who think people should be permitted to kill their own children frequently say that people who oppose elective abortion should keep their mouths shut and not attempt to engage in the political process.
The "shut up or else" argument indeed was frequently used by those who defended slavery, later, by those who defended Jim Crow laws… and later by Nazis, against those who opposed the Third Reich.
Unborn children deserve to be included at the "table of human rights". They deserve protection and due process of law. We who believe this must not let the opposition shout them down, no matter how loud or illogical. We must persevere so that justice will prevail.
The good Archbishop failed to give equal time to the Republicans. McCain is in favor of stem cell research and so the Republican party is equally guilty of bioethics violations in the eyes of the Catholic Church. The fact that the U.S.Bishops are particularly vocal this election should, however, give both parties pause to re-evaluate their positions on life issues. At the end of the day it appears that it would be easier to educate the open mind of Barack Obama to amend his position on life issues than it would be to chang the mind of that stubborn old dog McCain, especially on his beloved war, which the Blessed John Paul II and Ratzinger opposed.
Pelosi (a Catholic?!) showed her liberal brainwashing with the Tom Brokaw interview when she said during the last 50 yrs that there had been a change of attitude towards the church's stance on the "beginning of life" which left Brokaw in mild disbelief she did not know any better and more or less told her so.
The younger generations have been given the green light by the liberal Democrats to have sex without any consequences, bombarding younger and younger children with sexual overtones in film and television programing to make sex acceptable practically at the kitchen table…this lack of responsibility to protect the young and destroy the fabric of the family is at the core of the Democratic Party. Planned parenthood is a misnomer….it is anything but about being a responsible person or a parent!
Abortion is a terrible practice, particularly when used as a form of birth control.
However, BOTH sides go to far on this issue. Like most things, it isn't black or white…but gray. Pro-life wants no abortions by any means. Pro-choice says free to do what they want.
They are BOTH wrong.
And the Catholic Church has always been one of the most corrupt organizations on the planet since its inception. Where did I learn this? Catholic theology courses at Catholic institutions.
Scripture says
" I wove you in your mother's womb"…..
"I knew you before the foundations of the world were laid"
That was God speaking…..Nuff Said!
Good for him!!! It's about time someone started pointing out the obvious. You can't be a Christian and reject God's Word. You can't profess to love Christ yet refuse repentance of personal sin. Christ was no government social reformer – although His love transforms personal lives. Jesus calls for repentance from personal sin – which abortion and homosexuality clearly are – if one simply reads the Bible. Christ's call is for changed lives, not for creation of leftist government policies.
People are missing the point. The Catholic Church has the right to declare what they want, if you do not subscribe to those views, then leave that church—many have left for a variety of reasons. It is the same as being part of PETA but then going out an clubbing baby seals to death. You can not be "part" of a club — you are either for or against the central values.
Really? The Catholics are the party of perverts
"About time" is right. Way to go Cardinal Burke!
As to the tax exempt status of the Church, the Constitution is clear. Government will not interfere with religion. The idea that religion has to remain quiet on government is crazy. The whole purpose of religion is to lead its flock within the current system. This is freedom of speech. This is why we live here.
Abortion is a bad thing which should not happen.
Nuking Iran will not be agood thing but it may be necessary. And if it does happen it will be done by the next President which could very well be Obama.
I hope everyone here is consistent in their anti-war attitude when it is their boy who has to give the order to kill people. I doubt they will be though because being intellectually honest just isn't in the American left's blood.
It is a tragedy that people do not understand that it is a fact as to when life begins (conception). This is not disputed and is not a religious belief. The only thing that can be considered "religious belief" is the morality of killing innocent life. If you "believe" killing innocent life is wrong, then you must speak out against abortion.
However, using the religious belief argument: The radical Muslims believe Jews are not human and gays are not human. Since this a religious belief they should have the right to abort them at any stage of their life. After all we must have separation of church and state. Right? Now I believe it is wrong to kill Jews and gays. But I do not want to impose my religious belief on the poor Muslims of the world. So, Please don't impose your belief system on the Muslims. They should have the right to kill too – just like you.
And take it from me, a person who went to Catholic school for 12 years. Catholicism is the religion of HATE. The Pope is nothing more than one of those overpaid CEO's and when it comes to politics he should keep his big yap shut!
The pro-abortion fear is not what the Church might say, but that people might listen. But, because they can't win the people over with their ideas, they try to stifle the other side.
I wonder how they feel about Capital Punishment? I wonder why he has not spoken out against that and the Republicans? Mmmmmm…
I expected this. Does anybody have the courage to defrock Father Pflager?
Every sunday at Mass I look around and I think I see Democrats all over and I think: how can they be here when they support candidates who believe in the murder of innocent children?
I rember early in the Clinton presidency. Bubba went to South Africa and to show he cared about those people and he noticed the presence of photographers and seeing people taking Communion he thought I'll do it also. He received Communion, a mortal sin.
The Catholic church is a safe house for pedophiles, and now they want to make a stink about abortion. What a joke. The bible is not, in any way, clear about when life begins, but they want to align themselves with the Republicans, who are in favor of the death penalty, invading a country by mistake (250,000 people dead), torturing prisoners, and ignoring science (stem cell research) which could save many lives. Looks to me like the Catholic church has been in the death business too long.
Which is the party of death?
The Democrats Supreme Court judges legalized abortion in Roe v. Wade. (48,000,000 innocent American lives)The
Democrats de facto started the Viet Nam War- (1st combat troops sent in by Kennedy, escalated by Johnson, ended by Nixon- 58,000 American lives lost
Democrats bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki (Truman dropped 2 atomic bombs in these cities- 300,000 lives; 20,000,000 birth defects)
I don't want to be a Democrat.
"Palin believes that the war in Iraq is a task from God. Both John Paul II and Benedict have called the war in Iraq immoral and unjust. So, who do I beleive? A former Roman Catholic or the Pope?
– Posted by T. Kruger"
I spent 12 years in Catholic education where I studied St. Augustine at length. St. Augustine is responsible for the church's theological trajectory and he articulated a 'just war' litmus. Here's a news flash: in the case of Iraq, St. Augustine's just war criteria is more than satisfied on every level. The modern church and both Popes can say what they want, but their position is based more on caring about public perception than substantive dogma. Maybe they're too busy heading off the next pedophile priest scandal or obstructing Federal immigration law to remember their St. Augustine?
As if the catholic church has any moral authority…They have molested children over the past 50 years. Nothing they say can be taken seriously. Hypocrits just like the rest of the "christians" . "I like your Christ but I don't like your christians as they don't follow your christ" Ghandi
Why is it that the most high profile liberal democrats in the US Senate claim to be 'practicing Catholics.' Some of these democrats were once actual Catholics until the democratic party indoctrinated them into their 'required positions' on abortion, gay marriage, etc. They might as well form a splinter group and break away from the pope.
I doubt a politician exists that agrees with their constituents on every nuance of every issue. Sometimes voters have to swallow hard, prioritize the issues and make a judgment based on the entirety of a candidate's position. Abortion may well be murder, but so is unjust war.
If Republicans had their way, the U.S. would ban abortions instead of helping the homeless or guaranteeing healthcare for that same baby that wasn't aborted. They recently voted on that very issue and decided the children weren't worth insuring, ultimately. They are a party of glaring contradictions at a colossal level, the GOP.
I am thrilled to see the Catholic Church stand up and speak the truth loudly!! These peddlers of death,seared conscience and all, should be excommunicated PERIOD!!!!
The greatest danger to America today is right wing militarism. A philosophy that believes in preemptive war, torture, and that has elevated democracy to the level of religion. Although abortion is undoubtedly a great evil, war is the ultimate insanity unleashed by unstable minds. The kind of mind that unfortunately dominates the Republican party.
I've been catholic all my life. It still irks me that the church will not keep their opinions and rants contained to us (their own congregation). They really need to stop blasting others for their own beliefs. It's called intolerance!
Please Vatican, preach to us, stop harassing others about their own ideals, ethical practices and faiths!
p.s. By the way, the new age is very intolerant to intolerance. Please remember this.
Really if these people cannot follow the religion they should not go around pretending they are part of the religion. They do all of this for prestige. Obama couldnt associate himself with his church so we dont Fellow democrats follow his lead?
Can someone please answer why this issue derives equal passion on both sides? I understand that being pro-life, one would be passionate against the view that it is murder. But why are people that are pro-choice apparantly equally passionate? Is it that many have committed this act and therefore do not want to confront the guilt and therefore lash out at being equated as a murderer? I sincerely dont understand.
The Catholic chruch joining hands with the right wing is really scary. They are telling Catholics they must vote Republican based on this issue alone. Are they kidding look at the mess the world is in now because of their support for George Bush and the Republicans. They are going to send the world into a ditch. Lets get real when in the histroy of the Republican party have they ever given a crap about poor babies. Remember this is the party that fought Roosevelt over child labor laws because they were taking the poor kids off the street and working them like slaves in their factories. Here is where the Republican support for abortions ends, tell them we are going to save all these poor babies and they will have to pay more taxes to help support them. They will be dumping these babies off in the nearest trash cans themselves. Abortion is being used to manipulate votes that is the bottom line and the Catholic Church is falling for it. Money is what talks in the Republican party not life.
I keep seeing the statistic that 40-50 million babies have been aborted in the US since the legalization of abortion.
I guess that stat is supposed to shock and awe me and change my mind from being pro-choice to anti-choice.
But that stat made me think, well how would the US look if all 40-50 million of those babies were born.
Unemployment would be 5 times worse than it is now and it is reaching all time highs. Social Security would be obsolete. The healthcare problem would have become a crisis.
Deaths from illegal abortions would have increased tenfold. The economy would be horrendous as poor families struggle to support their children. Welfare would be draining from the economy an enormous amount of cash.
Upsides would include more troops to go and continue the US' history of slowly taking over the world. More parishoners to line the pockets of religions everywhere.
I totally understand why certain groups are so demanding on returning abortion to an illegal act now. It's all wrapped up under the guise of "preventing murder", but it's really about money and furthering their own doctrine.
I can't believe someone on this board actually said that the U.S. is waging war on Muslims. Have you lost your mind? How do you ignore Muslims' calls for jihad? All Muslims seem to do is kill people, each other included, over cartoons, books, minor disagreements, etc. They have promised to kill you, and you ignore it. I will give the Muslims credit, though, at least they're honest – they call for your death, and doggone it, they mean it!
yeah, Like the Vatican has ANY room to talk
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/26- Sept-2007.html
I have had family members sexualy abused by catholic priests. The Pope's words are meaningless to me. The vatican is worse than congress.
United States attacks Vatican as church of pedophiles.
The constitution was thoughtfully crafted to protect the practices and views of religious and non-religious persons. What has become recently known in the past forty-something years or so as the "separation of church and state" provides equal treatment under the law regardless of our religious bend or practice, while protecting the pursuit of the belief system of our choosing. The view that morality that finds itself derived from a religious institution is somehow invalid in comparison to those derived from a secular institution is mystifying. The constitution allows all groups to have legislative opinion and to critique any and all parts of the government . No single group can make governmental laws religious or secular, only the congress for and by the people can. That being said, the American Arch-Bishop Burke has the same inaliable right to freedom of speech as we all do. He also has a responsibility to correct doctrinal err within public a public forum. Whether any of us agree or disagree with his view is not germane to the discussion.
We all have to face God someday…and the Church is merely warning the politicians who do not follow God's law but rather their own egos that they will be judged accordingly.
And that goes for all of you liberal haters out here…
Get your house in order.
Look at all of you…this is the 2,000 year old Catholic church…the one that survived Rome, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, Attila, and so on:
1) What makes you think they are so wrong in denouncing your Democratic Party–actually specific people within that Party?
2) Unlike your secular vision for the world, Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, animists, etc., see the world through the lens of their religions. As you see they are plain wrong–they see you as plain wrong.
3) That Church (the Catholic one) has had it's share of problems–yet there is stands with it's second-to-none avenue of helping the poor (note Mother Teresa) and shedding it's blood in countless countries–something I don't see Alec Baldwin and Nancy Pelosi doing (but they can sure tear down your country).
4) It is quite amazing to the lengths that the world over has had to learn about the USA, yet all we see is your ability to tear one another up or find the next shiny object to paw at. At least in most countries around our world, the deck may be stacked but the players are well known: your election, for example, is in the bag by all parties, yet all are independent or whatever. And yet, the Catholic Church is taking a beating. Wow….
"and for being a proponent of stem cell research." Do they even know how stem cell research is perfromed today? It's drawn from a donated umbilical cord from a birth. I'm kinda tired of still hearing about this since the technology has changed, and thanks to this new technology my father is still alive and will get to watch my little brother graduate and see my sister, his only daughter, have her first child which is also his first grandchild…
Abortion and capital punishment are not the same before God. It's murder of the innocent (which God forbids) vs. killing the guilty (which God commands.) God endorses capital punishment in the NT saying "rulers do not bear the sword in vain – but for the punishment of evildoers"). Liberals always errantly compare the two to justify this evil.
Whenever I read about one of these Catholic pronouncements, I thank God that I'm a Protestant.
The narrators of this site did not want to post my comments about Planned Parenthood and its founder Margaret Sanger.
So folks, please do a Google search yourself folks or go into a library and find out yourself what she wrote in her book how she envisioned aborting the black race out of existence, a la Hitler vis a vis the Jewish people.
And consider how Democrats including Barack Obama, himself African American, take campaign contributions from Planned Parenthood.
Human life starts at conception. Already with all its characteristics of specific Gnomes as a full grown person. Science says so. So don't come with that "it ism not a baby" nonsence. Look at the pictures these days of 3 week olds in the womb sucking it thumb!
And no, a fetus (Latin for "little child") is NOT part of the woman's body like an arm and a leg. Only connected to a small cord for depending on the mother for nutrition.
And even if she wanted to have her -normal, healthy, arm or leg amputated would we not try to talk her out of it?
How much more so when it involves a baby!
Estimates are that almost 1 million babies are aborted each year.
This, while almost the same number of infertile couples spend a fortune eagerly trying to adopt a baby.
Is GOD trying to tell us something, you think?
Are you kidding me? The Catholic Church wants us to follow the Republicans as they take the world into a state of complete chaos. Never in the history of the republican party have they given a crap about poor dead babies. It is a ploy to manipulate the hillbilly vote. In the end ask any Republican if they would be willing to pay more taxes to support all these poor babies they are going to save. That will be the end of their prolife views. What the Republicans really care about is their money not poor babies. Huh, the whole thing is laughable.
So…….. what about the Republican Party? What does the Vatican say about it? Hum….. let's see now….. at least 500,000 Iraqis have been killed during the war in Iraq. Perhaps as many as 4,000,000 Iraqis are now homeless as a result of the war. The infrastructure of the country has been destroyed…. Is this pro-life? Be honest in your so-called God-inspired pronouncements, or, better yet, why not keep your rather biased (religiously-bloated) opinions to yourself!
War is not necessarily murder. There are ample examples in the old and new testaments which affirm that the civil government has the right to wield the sword, not just in war but for capital punishment. The Roman Catholic Church's positions on war and capital punishment are not in line with biblical precepts.
Far more have been murdered in the name of "choice" and "privacy" than in all the wars for the last 100 years. The Democrats are the party of death, but they market it in a wayt to make it all sound nice and pleasant. Abortion is censored as well. Maybe we need to have "Choice Awareness" week at public schools and show videos of abortions in progress. Or should we continue the censorship?
[…] continues to take the lead on life issues, speaking boldly on the matters. Reuters has a story here on the Vatican's denunciation of the Democratic Party as the "party of death." I […]
Jesus said, "…and whatsoever you do to the least of these, my children, you do unto me."
Jesus also said, "…for those that do this, they may as well have a millstone around their neck and be thrown into a sea of fire."
Don't you think it strange that Roman Catholic democrats are pro abortion in any form? They defy their own church teachings.
We must pray for them to see the errors of their ways and become Christians again.
A note to Catholics…With your churches unbelievable brutish, mad, pathological, and utterly satanic history, might I suggest you KEEP YOUR VALUES FOR YOURSELF AND STAY OUT OF MY RIGHT TO PRIVACY!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT A RIGHT TO AN ABORTION, ITS A RIGHT TO KEEP THE CHURCH AND THE EQUALLY CORRUPT AND PITIFUL STATE FROM TELLING ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT DO IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY DOCTOR. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The church has lost any and all respect I would ever give it credit for telling me how to behave. A bunch of enabling child rapists want to tell me what MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE?!
How dare you?! Who do you think you are? NO NO NO NO! CENTURIES OF VICTIMS OF YOUR ATROCITIES CRY NO!!!!
[…] was a Reuters article that I don't want to go under the radar. Joe "Lunch Bucket" Biden has said repeatedly […]
"Pedophile priests."
The phrase has such a great ring to it – for journalists, that is. It's hot, punchy (with that double-p alliteration) and short enough for headlines. All in all, a great tag for summing up one of the most sensational news stories of the year.
The only problem is – it's a lie.
It turns out the vast majority of the Catholic priests' offenses do not involve "pedophilia" – sexual contact between an adult and a pre-pubescent youth. Rather, they amount to sexual seductions of teen-age boys by predatory homosexual men who have abused their position of authority and trust.
Funny how those that complain about gay priests molesting boys also want more gays to be Boy Scout leaders as well. The problem isn't that they are priests, but that they are gay. How about banning gays from the Priesthood? No wonder the Boy Scouts don't want to be forced to have gays as Scout leaders. Who wants the same problem? And then if gay scout leaders started molesting young scouts the liberals would start criticizing the Boy Scouts as a corrupt organization. What a joke.
The opposite of "Pro-Life" is "Pro-Death", not "Pro-Choice" which is much more politically correct and an easier pill to swallow. Rather like referring to the death camps and palnned extermination of the Jews as the "Final Solution". Sounds so much nicer, doesn't it?
I love the way the Catholic church decides who is and who is not good enought to commune with them. I firmely believe that the Catholic Church as an etity is the anti-christ. Wolves in sheeps clothing they are and the pope is Evil incarnate on earth. Ever notice the upside down cross on his robes?
"I am glad to see that the Church is beginning to take a bolder stand for the rights of the unborn. The American people are stupid to think that all aspects of American culture are not affected by poor moral choices. (For instance, Social Security is directly affected by abortion! Do the simple math…
Women do have a choice, the choice to not have sex outside the confine of marriage. As a teacher for 30+ years I cannot think of a sigle student that should have been aborted. All are special in unique ways!
I would hope that the Church would begin to be even more vocal about what use to be a strong Democratic Party here in the U.S. I abandoned the party several years ago because of the moral depravity they are pursuing."
Look, this is not an issue. For Catholic, while the war, hunger, Gay Marriage, the poor, are important issue, the preeminate issue is ABORTION. We have candidate who publicly support abortion. What the Catholic Church is saying is that if you are going to be Catholic you can't support ABORTION. Pick…Catholic or Abortion. You can support both.
In one respect the Catholic church is correct to state its clear position regarding politicians who claim themselves as Catholics, and then differ fundamentally on the church's issues. But to what extent do politicians differ from the church. Biden has the same view. Also Pelosi. They just state that the legislation of a state should be 'hands-off' for any organized religion. The State, any state, should be hands off for an entity, that once was a formidable political entity itself. The Catholic church, if the US credibility in the world today is being challenged, lost it 'sense-of-purpose' for many millions a long time ago.
It's startling to see the Catholic Church call some other organization a "party of death." Am I missing something? Wasn't it the Church that killed millions (many millions) over its long and storied history?
Let's see. isn't it 48 million aborted babies since roe v wade? That's more than Hitler (8 mil)and Stalin (20 Mil)put together. Maybe even throw in Pol Pot (2-3 mil). But there is no argument, both Hitler and Stalin where Ruthless and Blood letting rulers of Nations, where the people of those nations were just too frightened to do anything about it. We ALL know how they have been judged. That would probably make USA and Europe the perpetrators of the most heinous elimination of the most defenseless human beings on the planet, and the democrats and lefties both here and abroad own it. 48,589,993 They were killed because they were inconvenient. So, hearing any bullshit trying to defend abortion is worse than insane, you just go ahead and placate your conscience; you will not escape judgment.
I think its time to tax the crap out of churches.Enough!
Can you really accept an organisation with such a botched handling of its own sexual crimes to be a 'moral authority' on such matters? Their under the carpet response amounted to little more than an act of complicitly, while their abuse of minors still went on. Willingly or not they were little more than a pedophile ring.
To Michael Cecil — I would be interested in hearing your comments after the first mushroom cloud appears over the Zionist state. My oh my!
Is there any doubt that a fetus is alive????? If anyone says that a fetus is not alive, that person has no creditability. Abortion kills the living fetus. Does a woman have a right to kill?
Following up on Luke, I think that it is absurd not to support a politician because you disagree with ONE of their beliefs. What about all of the other policies that the candidate has? Is abortion really the most important issue when the economy is struggling in epic proportions? To let your religion get in the way of the success of America is absurd. Selecting a leader is a culmination of MANY things, and separation of church and state is a must. Are you really not going to support a leader because he/she votes for abortion? REALLY? What about everything else. Why is ABORTION the most important thing to look at during the voting process? Is it because it is tied to your religion? Many people above have stated that they would never support a candidate who supports pro choice. That's it? What about their plan to fix the economy, their plan on Iraq, their plan to free us of fuel dependency. Please, for one minute, take your religious views out the door, and focus on what matters, the Unite States, not yourself. You go to church for a reason.
[…] you read it correctly. This just in from the Vatican – the Democrats are evidently agents of extinction. You know, in case you didn't know that. […]
If Democrats are the party of death I guess that makes Catholicism the denomination of Child Molesters.
[…] Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as 'party of death'… The Vatican finally gets one right. […]
Good Christians have waited for exactly this type of pro-active attempt to stop the hypocrisy. Yes, the Church has been attacked from within by horrible people. It is NOT what Christ created, and worrying about the whiplash of excommunications has allowed the evil to grow. But now that it is finally being addressed, don't accuse all of us who know "the gates of Hell shall not prevail against us". I am a Catholic, and I'm not alone in trying to live my Faith as it was handed down by Christ.
An acorn's not an oak tree.
Nor the coconut – a palm.
An egg is not a chicken.
The atom–not a bomb."
The Vatican needs to get its own nukes!
Since churches enjoy tax freedom, we just need to start taxing all religions and churches for the political instruments they are – especially as they further venture into the public sphere and political arena. Besides, who cares what an organization that protects child molesters over the public good states anymore, anyways…
Thank God the Church is finally standing up and speaking God's position. My husband and I have considered leaving the Church because politicians have been allowed to go unanswered on this vital issue. Pope Benedict addressed our concerns on the sexual abuse scandal. Please continue to meet these politicians head on.
Party of death? If that's the case, then Catholocism is the religion of death. Crusades anyone? What about the inquisition? Good times.
When we compare war and abortion and say that they are equally evil we make a huge mistake.
During the American Civil War hundreds of thousands gave their lives and over a million were maimed in order to uphold the "inalienable" right to Liberty. I don't hear anyone now saying that was a wrong war or that it should not have taken place.
LIFE is another and more BASIC "inalienable" right. Not speaking against it we become complicit in its evil and our own hands become soiled with the blood of the "innocent" who are being slaughtered daily right in their own mothers' wombs.
Why have we hardened our hearts to the plight of the most innocent and defenseless in our society? Are we silent or indifferent only because we can't hear their cry? They do cry and their blood cries out to God.
Zionist? What? Ahmadinejad has openly declared that Israel must be destroyed. Besides, isn't Zionist sort of anti-semetic? I suppose now African Americans are going to take over the world too and "kill whitey?" Or maybe those darn irish people will flood the world with beer and end all civilization. Will American Indians engage in depravity against the civilized man from their reservations? Ok…
"Oh, I see.
The Republican party's willingness to wage *nuclear* warfare against Iran in violation of Iran's legal right to pursue uranium enrichment for peaceful purposes (and based upon the Zionist calumny that Ahmadinejad has stated that the Israel 'should be removed from the map') signifies that the Republican party is the party of LIFE.
-Michael Cecil"
I haven't read all the comments completely, but I would ask each side to be respectful of the other. After all, Joe Biden said in the debate last night that he respected the motives of all people, even those he disagreed with.
The Catholic Church has consistently opposed abortion. The debate about the beginning of life is a biological debate; even before science proved that life begins at conception, the Church opposed abortion. If you believe that abortion is the taking of an innocent life, are you not obliged to stand for life? Some people believed that black people from Africa were not human. Did the liberals of the day say, "I believe that they are human, but I won't interfere with your right to have slaves." No. They opposed slavery and imposed their will on others.
What kind of person believes that innocent children are being slaughtered but refuses to speak up? A person who is afraid. A person misled by the false values of our society. A person who can not tell the difference between beliefs that are strictly religious and beliefs that derive from the laws of nature and of Nature's God. (See the Declaration of Independence.) I feel sorry for Joe Biden. He is confused and perhaps fearful of standing for truth.
Let's pray for those who can't see the truth — that their eyes will be opened.
Why doesn't the Catholic Church mind its own business. The clergy can't even say a mass the same way from one parish to another, state to state, country to country, just one of the messes they have created. Archbishop Burke needs to watch his comments. They are not very appropriate despite his beliefs. I suggest the church, since it is anti-abortion, agree to pay for all of the children who are born rather than aborted. Are they willing to do that? If every woman agrees to have their child, will the church pay for its care for life? Until they are ready to do this, then they need to stick with cleaning up their own internal messes.
Thank you.
I am a life long catholic and I could not disagree more about this issue.
You look at one party- the republicans that has always ignored the Vatican's calls for peace.
I will tell you how republicans are really the party of death.
They are against helping genocide like the one that is happening in Darfur
They themselves start unnecessary wars killing thousands of people and let thousands of Americna soldiers die in a vain mission.
The Republicans have caused more death in the world than the democrats. Period.
It's quite ironic how democrats are open to abortion but opposed to the death penalty. From the outside looking in, it looks like they've already sentenced these innocent children to death for a crime they didn't commit. I would much rather put to death an accused criminal rather than an unborn baby. I choose life, therefore I choose the Republican Party.
War is a completely different issue than abortion. As for Pelosi/Biden saying they can not push their views on others………that's just plain crap.
Every individual that is of a religious faith and is a true believer is guided by their faith. All decisions they must tackle are dictated by their beliefs. Your morla character and religious faith defines your life and how it is lived…..PERIOD!!
I wonder what would happen if an active pro-abortionist doctor dies, and stands before the Creator. And the Creator says to him:" You are not deaf, nor blind nor illiterate nor dyslexic. So, tell me why you thought killing unborn babies is fine? My bible is very clear that its wrong, My commandments too, and all of the ministers too?"
The culprit, a Dem, can be expected to try to avoid culpability; Pelosi said so, or Reid, womens rights etc etc.
The Creator would give short shrift to such lame excuses. "So you rate Pelosi etc on a par with me? I don't think so! I'll deal with them in due course. As for women's rights, I sent the babies. My wishes override any human rights. Right now, its you on trial. You've committed the cardinal sin of the coldblooded murder of innocent babies. Not once, but repeatedly. For that you have to go downstairs for eternity, I'm sorry to say. Take him down!" Interesting.
Wonder what Pelosi would say when her turn arrives?
Well, the Vatican Officials "hit the nail directly on the head" when they deemed the US Democratic Party as the Party of Death!
It is one thing to quietly believe in the right to kill the unborn without condescension to alternate opinions/beliefs. However, to overtly spew condemnation, rant, rave and begrudge the life of a little baby boy because the US VP Candidate chose "Life" for her "Downs Syndrome Baby" is the most wicked, vile, despicable, loathsome attitude known to man.
This little boy is no threat nor burden to these demented Democrats. The fact that they would deny him "LIFE" post "BIRTH" is the lowest form of mental criminality.
GET THIS……..Unfortunately, this little baby boy will grow up only to eventually read that these extreme, mental indigents regarded his life superfluous, thus, felt he should never have had the chance to live at all!!! WHO and WHAT are you vicious freaks??? May God forgive you all!
Amen to the Vatican Officials and their intuitive insight into the venomous mentality of the US Democrat.
The Democrats are the party of death. The war in Iraq is a task from God. Get over it.
Abortion IS being singled out as the greatest evil of this time…and for good reason. In this country alone, almost 50,000,000 (50 million) future citizen's lives have been terminated before they have had a chance to choose for themselves. Worldwide, the numbers approach the 1,000,000,000 (billion) mark. This is an evil beyond imagination!
This does not sanction war, poverty, crime, the death penalty…etc. They are also great evils…however, if taken in their totality do not compare to the evil of abortion.
Let's spend the money being utilized to snuff the innocent on the women who feel they don't have a choice and provide them with a happier option than feeling their 'only way out' is to kill their unborn baby.
The comment "Regardless of one's religious views on abortion, it is unethical to legislate your religion on others." is a ill-conceived (s'cuze the pun) idea.
This is not 'unethical.'
Every law is 'religious' in that it imposes a penalty based upon a set of values/views/beliefs that a group of people have about right or wrong.
Rather than describing this as 'unethical' you might simply state your belief that abortion does not really kill a living human. That would be better than hiding behind the false argument of religious legislation.
Where was the vatican when JEWS were being slaughter right outside his window
I am a Democrat and a Catholic. I am pro-choice – how can that jive? I'll tell you. I would never ever have an abortion and hope no one else does because it is against God. But God gave us a choice, free will. He allows us to choose. We glorify God by making the right choices. To disallow choice doesn't make us better people, we would be unable to do the right thing in the face of a choice between right and wrong. We would not be able to glorify God.
Wonderful to finally hear a Church leader speak out.
Now if the NY Archdiocese would get some courage !
Maybe Edward "Cardinal" Egan could dis-invite the abortionists to his AL SMITH Dinner.
[…] "Democratic Party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death…for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion." […]
Too bad the "Church's" teachings go so far beyond Christ's teachings that even Christ would not recognize what is being done or said in his name.
For more than fifty years of my adult life, I have been an Evangelical Christian. My relationship with the Lord had guided my life. Despite my heartfelt and often-stated objections to abortion and homosexuality, my Christian beliefs were challenged because I was a Democrat. I have had statements made to me such as "come out from among them: or "you can't be like Christ and be a Democrat". I realize than many Godly pastors and Bible teachers with good intentions and true sincerity have held ferociously to their beliefs about Democrats for years. Some have pounded the pulpit claiming that abortions in the United States started through actions by the Democrat Party. This offends me greatly because it is simply not true. I have never questioned anyone's own personal Christian relationship because of where they worship or their political leanings. Now, for Democrats like myself who are also Evangelicals, it is time to set the record straight.
A 1973 Supreme Court decision, Roe V. Wade, legalized abortion by a 7-2 vote. Six of the seven Justices in the majority were Republican appointees. The only Democrat appointee, Byron White, voted against Roe V. Wade.
In fact, in every year since 1969, the United States Supreme Court has been controlled by a majority of Republican-appointed judges. There has not been a Democrat-appointed Chief Justice since 1953.
Currently, there are seven Republican appointees and two nominated by Democrats. Obviously, If the Republican majority has wanted to overturn Roe V. Wade at any time since 1973, the had the votes to do so. Why haven't they?
In 2003, the United States Supreme Court in Lawrence V. Texas overturned a Texas law against sodomy. Once again, in the 6-3 decision, four Republicans voted to overturn the law.
Recently, the California Supreme Court overturned the State's ban on same sex marriage. Six of the seven California judges were elected Republicans.
From 2000-2006, Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency. In 2006, the FDA approved an "over the counter" abortion drug known as "Plan B". The head of the FDA serves at the pleasure of President Bush.
My point is clear. For religious leaders to continue to blame Democrats for Republican actions is wrong.
Yes, a fetus is alive. So is yogurt. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Would TS Mommy recommend legalizing murder and rape, so that people have a choice? I agree that we have free-will, and that is in part what makes christianity's view of the World special, but one has to protect life as well.
I am sick of reading that no one has the right to impose their religious or moral view on others. If one follows this line of reasoning then upon what moral basis does one rely for denying advocates of depraved practices (such as bestiality, cannibalism, sex with children, female circumcision, etc.)?
There are moral absolutes. There is right & wrong, there is truth and falsehood. Choose to rely upon the truth proclaimed by the God of the universe in the bible and earnestly seek His will and your confusion will cease.
How could the Vatican and say anything about anyone. They have a long and rich history of lies and deceit themselves. The ignorance and arrogance of these people has proven them to be just as "evil" as they claim others are. Now in 2008 they are still speaking out against individuals who differ from them, not learning at all from their biggest bout of ignorance regarding Galileo. Too bad the allied forces in WW II didnt take out the Vatican along with the Third Reich.
TS Mommy, you have excommunicated yourself by your implicit support of legal abortion. Check the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Anyone who assists someone in procuring an abortion is automatically excommunicated.
Abortion can never be justified, because it is the direct intentional killing of an innocent person.
War can be justified, say for example in defense. Note that the Church did not consider either the Gulf War or the Iraq War as necessarily justified. In war, to maintain justice, you must never iintentionally kill innocent bystanders. This is the same as in the case of police activity: sometimes bystanders get hurt. But that must never be the intention. This is also why it is never allowed to kill ordinary prisoners of war.
In an abortion, the doctor actually intends the death of the child, and tears his/her body limb from limb, without anaesthesia.
That is the difference between war and abortion. In war innocent people may die accidentally, while in an abortion an innocent person is targeted for destruction. Soldiers can be good, although some may not be. Abortionists cannot be good.
The Church's teaching is very clear and concise and, I think, very convincing.
I can't see a single Dem here who has actually defended baby murder.
Give it up already. Rejoin the human race.
Michael, not only is the comment not about your post you are ignorant enough to believe that the Iranian Midget has the right to enrich uranium. This is a man who will destroy the Jews as soon as he can. He has stated it time and again. The Republican Part has not waged nuclear warfare against Iran. And if anyone votes Democrat they can not be Catholic, they would be non believers. The bible defines exactly when life starts. God said that all days are planned out for you. This tells us that your life is planned before conception. So if you vote Democrat it is simple, you keep in power the people that have passed laws saying that Murder is ok. And Obama is the worst of the worst. He voted to make sure that no medical help would be ok if the abortion was batched and the life was outside the mom.
In response to Dave's point, "Each person has a freedom of choice, and the decision a pregnant woman has to struggle with about either having the baby or having an abortion, or giving it up to adoption, or etc. that choice is hers and hers alone."
Do you agree that there is a difference between "choice" and "right?" I have a choice to kill the next person who comes in the room. Does that mean I have the right as well?
In the end, I think our country's notion of freedom has changed from being free to do the right thing to being free to do whatever you want.
If life occurs at conception then why does no federal organization recognize this.
The IRS doesn't
The Census bureau doesn't
Even your church doesn't as they don't perform funeral services when you have a miscarriage…do they ?
Do we celebrate the day of conception or the birthday ?
The Church has condemned the current wars that the US is waging. Therefore they are not being hypocritical. Also, the Church does state that some wars are OK if they are necessary to prevent evil(WWII for example). Killing innocent babies is never justified, and misrepresenting this position is a terrible thing.
As it says in the Bible: Tis better to have grindstone attached to your neck and thrown into the sea than to lead the flock astray.
For the record, I'm not Catholic, but I think John Paul II was right on the money when he said:
"The Holy See insistently proclaims that the first and most fundamental of all human rights is the right to life, and that when this right is denied all other rights are threatened. The assumption that abortion and euthanasia are human rights deserving legislative sanction is seen by the Holy See as a contradiction which amounts to a denial of the human dignity and freedom which the law is supposed to protect. A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members; and among the most vulnerable are surely the unborn and the dying. A materialistic view of the human person will concede little value and dignity to either. What is then claimed as a victory for human rights is really the sanctioning of a freedom sundered from truth. In the end, that is no freedom at all but a descent into arbitrariness and the dominion of the strong over the weak."
"Why doesn't the Catholic Church mind its own business…Archbishop Burke needs to watch his comments. They are not very appropriate despite his beliefs. I suggest the church, since it is anti-abortion, agree to pay for all of the children who are born rather than aborted. Are they willing to do that?" -Sam
Sam, there are resources out there for fathers of aborted children.
May we all recognize that through the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we are forgiven. I think all of us should look in the mirror and recognize that we are sinful. The Lord commands us to rebuke sin. The Bible is filled with recognition of life at conception. The Lord knows us, we are born in sin and that includes our politicians. We need to pray for them and ask the Lord to turn them from the sin of abortion. If they don't, they will stand before the Almighty and have to given an account as to why they did not believe in God's word and follow his commands. If they don't repent and confess Jesus as Lord then they will be doomed to everlasting destruction. I pray that we all heed the warnings of Jesus and come to Him. I suggest that you read Romans and learn from it – God speaks to us – all of us people in authority and under authority. Woe to those who dismiss the God of the Bible and refuse to believe in his authority as sovereign Lord!
It's funny how the Catholic Church does not say how Republicans are FOR Capital Punishment! A life is a life and nobody is "for" abortion but in time of rape, incest, or the mother's life is on the line they may be a need for it. Also if abortion is made illegal in the States backshops with unlicensed or revoked licensed doctors would be endangering our wives and daughters for unsafe medical procedures. I am all for trying to keep a child but there should be more counseling and adoptions to help women make a very, very difficult decision. Finally, to all the expected posters that would say well an unborn child is innocent whereas a death row inmate is guilty, remember there are many on death row wrongly imprisoned, an unwanted born child has a higher risk to committing crimes. If you are pro-life who are you to decide on who lives or dies, by the very statement that you are pro-life you are therefore for ALL life, otherwise you are playing God in who lives and dies!
THIS is the real issue:
The Democrat Party will 100% endorse and support state-funded abortion…they have no qualms of allowing babies, who have done NOTHING to harm anyone since they aren't even born yet, to be killed…however, they OPPOSE the death penalty, for adults who made the decision to take human life for their own selfish ends…with the Democrats, troublemakers are victims…this is the result of that party being taken over by leftists, who are founded in cultural marxism and moral relativism…look at what socialists have done to Europe, where the "natives" of several nations can't even replace their own dying citizens, due to low birthrates and most likely, abortions. I do not want to see the USA down that path…
There is no question that life, a totally separate life, begins at the moment of fertilization; or rather, mitosis commences. At that point, an organism with completely unique DNA exists and is replicating. Do deny that it is alive is contrary to fact. The question is, does the organism have a human soul at this point, not is it alive… This can be argued any number of ways, but abortionist liberals err by not choosing the action that exterminates humanity (if it exists) rather than preserves humanity (if it exists). Of course, liberals are largely atheistic anyway, which is their true justification for discarding human life – they do not acknowledge any soul or spark of divinity within humans. Which, finally, explains why liberals have such a significantly lower self-image than conservatives do. They consider themselves (and everyone else) essentially valueless. This is why liberalism, the modern face of socialism, is such a base and disgusting philosophy; it is, as the Bishop says, a philosophy of death.
For all those that are pro-choice, do you agree that 1. If a woman that is pregnant, and she chooses to smoke drugs during pregnancy and deliver a crack baby, that society should say nothing, after all its her body? 2. If someone decides to kick a pregnant women in the belly until the fetus is dead, is that also just the womans body and therefore the equivalent of kicking her in the leg? I believe that the pro-choice position, is not only wrong morally, but also illogical. Kudos to the Catholic church!
Everyone is free to choose their religion, if I remember correctly. If you want to be a Catholic, follow Church doctrine and don't dispute it. The Church is not a democracy.
If you don't like it, go find yourself another Church that supports your moral philosophy, or become an atheist. And stop criticizing other peoples' faith.
It's so simple that I don't understand what the big deal is about.
The bishop is right on. It's just too bad that the Vatican doesn't speak out about the pervasive spread of socialism (the bailout) in the U.S., which is nearly as damaging as the lack of regard for human life. Maybe when the economy gets bad enough and their donations dry up, they will realize that it is the free market that is the most moral economic plan.
Its about time someone stood up to the fools in the deomcattic party. I use to be a democrate and I left the party because of their support for homosexuality, and late term abortion. People have a choice when they are having sex, and they should use protection, and that way they can stop unwanted pregnancies before conception. Democrates think they are above God and Country but they are not. Judgement will come to them sometime.
Dr Ryan
The soul enters the body at the moment of the first BREATH – that's when a HUMAN BEING's LIFE begins!
A human species FETUS is not a human BEING!
Read about how God gives LIFE through the use of HIS BREATH in the Bible!
Right on Bishop!
The truth is the truth is the truth…
The Church has always and will always pray for the entire world and the salvation of everyone.
Abortion is ALWAYS wrong!!!
May God have mercy on us for allowing it.
Its simple people.Some mistakes you cant turn around and fix.Getting pregnant you can obviously fix in the eyes of pro-choice.No ONE is held responsable for there actions anymore.IF YOU DONT WANT TO GET PREGNANT DONT HAVE SEX!Its that simple.Catholics are blaming dems because they stand for every thing the church is against.Boohoo poor Dems (get some morales)
Every living animal on this planet has a heart beat.Wouldnt it make sense that when the baby has a heart beat it is alive?
I cannot believe that anyone tries to justify abortion – there is no justification. Do not make the mistake of bringing in anything else about war, or what the Church has done in the past – it does not matter – 2 wrongs do not make a right. Abortion is still wrong – period. A women does not have a choice – God places a soul in a baby upon conception, who are we to interfere? How can anyone abort a child – why, because it is not convenient, timing is wrong? There are so many who want to adopt, give the baby a chance at life. Who will stand up for the rights of Baby's? Pro-life does.
I am proud to be a Catholic – here is a church that is taking a stand. Has the Church made mistakes – yes. Does that mean that it cannot stand up and take a stand against Abortion – NO!
Amen Archbisop Burke, as a recent convert to Roman Catholisism, I am encouraged and affirmed in my decision to join The Church when its leaders make a principled stand.
Bishops are right. Christianity protects life and forbids murder. You either have pie or eat pie, you are either a Christian and protect innocent life or you murder for your own convenience in which case you are not a Christian.
I applaud the Archbishop for his stand against what Pelosi and Biden have stated. But what good does it do when these people are so high up in the government that they dare not change their position on anything. That would require being humble and that is not in either one of them. Minus some conservative Democrats, the Democratic Party IS the party of death. Look what they've done to our economy with this scam bailout. There wasn't any need for a bailout. What is was, was the representatives who've blocked regulations on Freddie/Fannie wouldn't do anything about these two failures until they were bankrupt. Democrats and management in general cannot allow themselves to admit fault or that what they said do was a bad idea and it caused a failure. The higher up the ranks a person goes the less they can admit fault. Until they finally reach the top of their profession where the damage they cause by not being able to admit fault causes the loss of livlyhoods for thousands of people under their control. The church has always taught being humble is not to be feared, and will not cause loss of respect from people. But evil teaches these people in high positions, that if they admit fault they cannot stay aloft above the people you control. Admitting fault makes people equal and people in high positions believe they are not equal with anyone except those in the same position they are in, and even then some will pick apart what those equal to them do and say trying to make them look bad and themselves good. To us those that do that are bad as well, but they do not believe that about themselves only about others. Archbishop Burke puts it right in that taking a position supporting abortion is wrong, and when these people who've made their careers passing the blame onto others, don't face the facts about killing the unborn as murder but rather attack those who state that, are in danger of damnation. The story of Jesus' life tells us that when he was at a town and the children came running up to Him, the adults tried to shoo them away. Jesus said not to do that, but to "suffer the little children to come unto me, for those who deny me to them, I will deny you to my Father." Pelosi and Biden need that read to them, for if you kill the little children, you do that unto him who is the Father. The Democrats need a serious humbling to take place. Their hearts may be in somewhat of a good place about wanting to take care of those who can't take care of themselves, but when they promote abortion as a way to lighten the burden on the poor, is not only ignorant, but influencing people to commit sin themselves as those who talk them into sinning.
It seems the angry left misses three points:
One, the Bishop did not say the Republicans were an approved party by the Catholic church. He was speaking to several specific positions that the Democratic Party supports. If you recall the Catholic church has been repeatedly critical of the Bush adminisration for the war in Iraq.
Two: To read the commandment "thou shalt not kill…" in it's original language you will find that it says more accurately "Commit no murder" a very specific reference to premeditated murder. After the commandments were given God told Israel to go to war. It's one thing to quote a verse (in English). It's another thing to UNDERSTAND what it means.
Three: The scripture "Judge not…" refers to pronouncing a person damned to hell. We are called to mercy, but we are not called to ignor evil and sin. You're allowed to point out someones sins so that they might repent of them. Lord knows we all have them, so don't get so angry when someone points them out. If someone says "go to hell" well that's another story. That is what the "judge not" scripture is addressing.
Wow until I read your letter, I never would have thought
that it wasn't my responsibility for producing three children to provide for their needs.
Wow, it is people like you that propogate all of these
women who keep having children all the while knowing that
they are not going to be the ones providing for them, but it is I, the taxpayer, who will pick up the bill,
because of all of the stupidity of people like yourself.
You gotta find it funny how Priest who have never been in that position let alone a relationship or have a family e.g single mother etc can judge someone who has?
Was it not Jesus who said
"Let them who have not sinned cast the first stone?"
The church's history is full of sin so they should stop interfering with the US political system.
Wow, it is people like you that propogate all of these
women who keep having children all the while knowing that
they are not going to be the ones providing for them, but it is I, the taxpayer, who will pick up the bill,
because of all of the stupidity of people like yourself.
– Posted by Sharon
That's the problem with socialism, if you work 2 jobs or never work you still end up poor, so why bother?
It is a fact that George Washington died a Catholic. It is a fact that Washington was a advocatestudent in the writings of St. Robert Bellarnine and St. Thomas Aquinas (Catholic Saints), specifically on political philosophy. It is a fact George Washington, James Madison, and other "Founding Fathers" used the ideasconcepts of these "religious people" to form this great republic. Thomas Jefferson included concepts of these Saints in the writing of Declaration of Independence. It is a fact that George Washington had a bible in his possession when on the Senate Floor. It is a fact that the President of the United States is sworn into the office with his hand on a bible. It is a fact that this country that you love so much is built on the foundation of religious ideas. If you remove them, the foundation will eventually fall. I love my country and I love my religion (Catholic). You can't define good and evil without it. Abortion is evil. PERIOD. It is a fact that George Washington loved this country and would not believe how backwards it has became, and that is the facts. So for all you pro-abortion advocates and atheist…Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
"Fetus" is just a given name for the early stage of developpment. Fetus is a human being not yet fully developped, the same way as the "newborn" or "baby" is in our lexicon not yet a fully developped child, and a "child" is not yet a fully developped man or a woman. The unborn panda is as small as a bean, yet it is still a panda and we await panda's birth from beginning of pregnancy.
Archbishop Burke, like so many in the Church Hierarchy, ignores the Churches own teachings when it comes to the definition of pro-life. Pope John Paul II stated that, and this is not exact as I did not look it up, to be pro-life one must reject the violence of abortion. One must reject the violence of the death penalty. One must reject the violence of poverty.
He was quite eloquent on it. The bottom line is that the Republican Party is no more pro-life than the Democrats, they are just anti-abortion. Both parties have a long way to go. Executing prisoners and dropping cluster bombs and missals on villages is taking life as surely as abortion.
The Church needs to stay out of politics and try and re-establish the moral authority it squandered in scandal. This is not helpful.
As an athiest I strongly support the Catholic church on this. Science indicates that at conception the single cell has the genetic plan necessary to form a human being enclosed within a single membrane. Fed and protected it will become an adult, just like a new born or a toddler will become an adult if fed and protected.
Wow, Mr. Cecil. It amazes me how people like you can still, in this day and age, get away with such blatant anti-semitism. You write: "and based upon the Zionist calumny that Ahmadinejad has stated that the Israel 'should be removed from the map". Are you for real? The "Zionist calumny"? So you're telling me that Israel made up Ahmadinejad's comments about wiping Israel off the map? He's on record saying that himself! Go look it up. It's an undeniable fact.
And, in regard to Republicans being the party of LIFE. That is absolutely true. The fact that republicans want to defend the United States against a real, demonstrable threat, one that has already claimed nearly 3,000 lives in a single attack alone, does not negate their position on defending life. The difference is, in general, the philosophy of conservatives is to defend innocent life while the philosophy of liberals is to defend the guilty, the depraved and the immoral, though of course, they would never admit it.
Its about time. I've always felt that its the job of all clergy to speak out forcefully on these matters. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and the democrat party is wrong on everything important.
"Thou shall not murder" is what the word used in Hebrew means, not kill. Are you truly trying to say there is no difference between a soldier killing to defend his country, and a 'doctor' and woman aborting an innocent baby? Even if a soldier accidentally kills a baby in a battle, there is a difference, because of intent. Abortion is a targeted killing of an innocent baby. Very similar to a terrrorist's targeting of innocent children. Of course, I notice that those who support abortion, also tend to put a moral equivalence on terrorists, so it doesn't surprise me that you would try to call American soldiers murderers, while never admitting that an abortion has killed a human being. You are doing the will of our enemies, Osama himself couldn't hope to murder 30 million American children, yet we have done it to ourselves with abortions, all supported by fellow travelers of those who hate this country.
Horay Vatican. the Catholic Church is soooo awesome. Just look at all of the virtue and good it has done down thru the centuries to people through it's saints. And this is yet one more example. When it comes time to make an accounting for abortion in society as the Germans had to for their war against the Jews, will anyone remember our voices? That we did cry out for the innocent and helpless victims of abortion?
How can those of you compare fighting a war with killing innocent BABIES?
You are the ones that make the Democrat Party DANGEROUS!!!!
Who cares about a Raymond Burke?? People like him sickens me.
Catholic Church which stood by and encouraged thousands of child abuses over the years has no moral compass to talk about anything. This is another ploy from Burke and his cronies to collect more money from Catholics to pay for their sins.
What a disgusting bunch of people these clowns are..
" Vatican Supreme Court Prefect Attacks Biden and Pelosi"
Is That All That Bishop Burke finds About The CHURCH Teachings ?? Just ABORTION??? How About SATANIC Bush International MASS MURDERER???
it is amazing how they want us to have children … but let the strave around the world …they could take some of the gold they have decorating the vatican and trade it for food … and it also a wonder to me how they can say have these children , i guess so they can molest them all
Not legislate religion? In that case, my religion states "thou shall not committ murder", I guess we should scratch all laws against murder. Same with stealing and other laws based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Let's have a world laws, because most have some basis in religion.
I applaud the Catholic Church for speaking up to protect innocent life. When our political leaders, and pseudo Catholic leaders, seek to mislead and flat our lie, the Church must stand up and set the record straight. This is not politics by the Church, but standing up for the principles it believes in, especially when others seek to distort them. For those who criticize the Church, so be it, enjoy. However, that does not take away from the fact that the Church should be, and properly is, standing up for the rights of innocent, unborn life. Thank you Catholic Church, and we along with other Christians (and Jews) will do our part to support unborn, innocent life come election day!
For me it comes down to the fact that the democrats think it is morally acceptable to allow partial birth abortions – you know those – the ones where they crush the skull of the fetus and suck out the brain. Where are their brains?
Michael, Bella Logosi & Joe Bidden were telling people how the Catholic Church interprets life & when it begins. The only problem is, that they were completely wrong about their interpretation. It's ok to be wrong about something as long as when you fine out you were wrong admit it. Of course that's not a democrat trait. Your dough may still be quite soggy.
Archbishop Burke should be Pope, so that we can have outspoken leadership on important moral issues. Pope Benedict seems to be a great guy, but I don't see strong, outspoken leadership emanating from him on this issue and many others. Why are most of the American Bishops silent? Where is their leadership? The only issue that I hear them leading on is encouraging people to violate the immigration laws of the United States of America. And why do most of them seem inclined to favor the immoral, socialistic, Democrat "party of death"?
To Michael Cecil,
A direct quote cannot be a calumny. To quote Ahmadinejad himself:
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."
As to your reference to "hundreds of thousands of Christian fetuses in the United States", this grossly understates the tragedy. There have been nearly 50 million abortions in the United States since the Roe vs Wade decision.
creeps like burke will not only hand communion to known child molesting priests but will also stand on the same altar and believe that a child molester priest has the power to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. in fact given the huge number of child molesters and child molester appeasers in the current catholic church it's likely been rare that communion has been served to anyone (as I doubt God would grant the powers of consecration to such disturbed individuals)
A few quick (hopefully) points:
1) The term "Catholic" means universal. Universal means everywhere and throughout time. Therefore, the Catholic Church is going to maintain a consistent set of beliefs. Many people on this thread are going to spout off a number of errant statements of how the Church has changed its doctrines. Fine, but history has ways of being contorted by its current authors (Howard Zinn, anyone?). The Church has always maintained the evil of any abortion, and has always taught the virtue of chastity. A Catholic who disagrees with the Church on the issues of abortion and chastity has therefore broken with the consistent teaching of the Church. They therefore cease to be Catholic and cannot recieve the Eucharist. With repentance and penance, they can enter back into the fold.
2) The role of a Bishop is to be the chief teacher of the faith in a particular locality. In this capacity, a Bishop has the duty to correct and warn those under his care of their spiritual state: to do so is considered an act of Spiritual Mercy. When a prominent person publically mis-represents the faith, it is the Bishop's duty to correct them. Likewise, when a person associated with a particular organization (say a sports team) speaks incorrectly, their supervisor must correct them. That is how it works.
3) The Democratic Party is mentioned simply for two reasons: both its primary candidates are ardent supporters of abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, and during its Convention, it modified its platform from having abortion be safe, legal, and rare, to being safe and legal. Plus, its primary spokesman had taken public steps to ensure that he not only supported all abortion, but he would also allow an innocent baby who survived abortion to be killed merely because that baby represented a threat to abortion. Thus, the party publically established itself in stark contrast with the teachings of the Church.
4) The Church has the right to preach on moral issues during an election year and still remain tax exempt. Religious institutions are allowed to preach on the various issues, inform people of candidate's stances on the issues, register voters, and encourage people to vote. The Catholic Church has never endorsed (nor ardently opposed) any specific candidate by name. Archbishop Burke's comments were actually quite legal: he never endorsed any candidate (nor does he oppose Obama in his comment). Quite simply, he states the truth that in relation to Church teaching, the Democratic party is moving considerably farther away from respecting and promoting life.
Dear OJ,
I understand your anger at the wrongs committed by the church in the past. Does this really undermine the Truth that the church represents though? Can the faults of human beings ever truly damage the perfection of creation?
Answer Key: No, NO.
Thank you, Archbishop Burke, for standing up for truth. No other argument or issue matters if we do not have the opportunity to take that first breath once we have been conceived. He is not "imposing his religion:" he is PROPOSING truth. We must stand up for "the least of our brethren," those who have no chance to speak for themselves. Those who believe otherwise have lost their way, and since those words are in the Democratic platform, they deserve each other: the lost and the Democrats.
Regrettably, today politicians from both parties, such as Nancy Pelosi, Joe Bidden, Rudy Giuliani, Ed Kennedy, Newt Gingrich, John Kerry, and many others claim to be Catholics, when in fact by their actions they live outside of the Catholic Church. We shouldn't expect that church would change just to accommodate us. It looks rather that politicians want to use religion for political gains. Barrack Obama obviously chose Joe Bidden, as his running mate to influence Catholic vote. In reality, that action did not produce effect he desired. In US, unlike Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran we live in the society, with many religions flourishing in harmony, therefore we have almost unlimited choices, and we may pick religion that fits our beliefs and values.
I am a convert and to this day I have never understood how people can criticize any church, let alone the Catholic Church, which is the oldest, and that almost all other christain churches, have things in their liturgy and creed taken from the Catholic Church. To blaspheme against any Christain church is unforgiveable. All of you who have put forth your criticism with such vehemence, obviously know absolutely nothing about the church, its history, or its teaching! It is made of human beings, just like you and me. Human beings make all kinds of mistakes and often err, so why would you think that the Catholic Church or any other church would not make mistakes, especially when it goes back to the 1st century? It seems to me that a lot of you have nothing else to do but spew out rotten rhetoric, which is harmful to you and to anyone else who reads it! It is a terrible thing to be so hateful and infect everyone else with it! The bishops and the priests teach us to pray for people like you. I will try, but it is very difficult, especially when you seem to think that it is okay to murder a helpless small human with every physical attribute that you, yourself have. As far as having a Downs Syndrome child I have known them to be very loving,
and capable of much more than people often think they are. To most families who have chosen to have them, they are a blessing!
So many people can justifiy "Killing Inocent Life" It's so sad. They try to justify it (abortion) by pointing out other bad behaviour. It sickens me. Wake up you fools and re think your position.
Michael Cecil, how informed you are! You muist have the inside information about US govt. plans to "wage nuclear war" against Iran, since no such plan has ever been proposed or articulated by the Bush administration! Or were you just making that up? And just because the Iranians, the world's foremost state sponsors of international terroroism, who have all the energy resources they need without nuclear power are enriching uranium to weapons grade, and vowing to wipe Israel off the map, that's no reason for US intervene in their "right" to develop nuclear technology, right? Given that Iran is a terrorist theocracy bent on destroying the only relaible ally the US has in that region of the world, and the "Obama-ssiah" would sit down and negotiate with these thugs and murderers without preconditions, then that makes the Dumbo-craps some kind of party of LIFE? Give it up jerk! You must be as stupid as you sound!
I am a Catholic and I am pro-life. My thoughts are this:
Even though it is legal to have an abortion, it does NOT MANDATE that a woman have an abortion. Do you see the difference? It's free will.
I believe it is our responsibility as Americans, as Christians, as Catholics to educate people the best we can. Knowlegde is power.
I agree with the ones who wrote about God giving us free will. He will judge us. I agree with the ones who wrote there needs to be better support systems out there for these woman if we are going to make abortion illegal.
To some degree it doesn't matter if abortion is made illegal or stays legal because either way, abortions will still happen. Murder still happens even though it's illegal. Drug's still happen even through they are illegal and so on. We need to keep straight what are GOD's laws and what are man made. Even though American has abortion as legal it doesn't make it right in God's eyes. We could take this to other topics such as pre-marital sex too which isn't right in God's eyes. It could go on and on. So again, the judgement will come down between God and that individual.
Comparing the lives of homicidal maniacs to an unborn children. Maybe Obama was right "who should be cursed with such a thing?"
The USA has never threatened nuclear war with Iran. But Iran has threatened Israel and the whole western world with destruction. The hate America first croud is at it again.
There are so many things I would like to say but, having been brought up Catholic, I know how tunnel-visioned Catholics are. However, I would just like to point out that this so called Almighty God gave us the right to freewill. He gave us the choice to do what we want, whether good or evil. Obviously if we choose evil we will suffer the consequences, but we have the choice nonetheless. These Democrats are not supporting abortion, they are supporting the woman's right to choose what to do with her body. Someone can be against abortion but pro-choice. The Catholic church (keep in mind that this is a male run institution) has absolutely no right to say that a woman has no choice. The more I see of the Catholic church the more I am disappointed in it. It is one of the most hypocritical establishments in the history of man and I am ashamed to have ever called myself a Catholic.
War is not part of the platform of the Republican party. No party has a monopoly on the occasional use of military force. The Democrats, however, are indeed the party which consistently endeavors to maintain a ruling by 5 unelected people, which has resulted in the deaths of 20 million of our fellow Americans since 1972. Life begins at conception (science has proven this, and the democrats are living in the dark ages.) Life should be protected. These are not religous beliefs. They are scientific facts and universal, humanitarian, beliefs.
So if the Republicans support abortion in the case of rape or incest does that make the the "quasi party of death"?
What about capital punishment? I believe the church has a strong stance on that as well, but do not see anyone being refused communion based on it.
We have "separation of church and state" for a reason in this country.
Nothing comes out when they move their lips but a bunch of jibberish..
If you like the Church scene good for you..If you don't, good for you too. But why is it the bible thumpers that seem to take issue with non bible thumpers ? is it a cult thing ? You are electing a president to run a country, of which bible thumping issues represent a small fraction of the issues. yall bible thumpers better start focusing on much more than abortion or else you won't have a home to thump your bible..
Mr. Cecil, you've exposed yourself as an anti-Semite. Ahmadinejad has said he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map. He also participated in a conference denying that the Holocaust happened.
It is time that people in America take a close look at this issue. Forty-two million abortions and counting. Someone needs to speak for those who have no voice. People need to take pause and reflect on this issue. The term silent holocaust is appropriate. The issue should not be relegated to a democratic or republican fault finding. We all as humans have been given the gift of life. We must look at ourselves and answer the question. Why am I silent. Why do I at least reflect on what abortion is; what types of abortions occur; what happens when a aborted child is born alive and left to die. Slavery did not find its way into the American conscience until the scars and wounds were seen and people saw behind the word describing the issue directly into the depths of inhumanity turned inward against itself.
Michael Cecil are you glad your Mother was Pro Life? Think about it!
Hey, I'm not a Catholic but I am totally with Archbishop Burke. FINALLY, the Catholic Church is speaking out against EVIL – the MURDER of unborn children – life.
You have the support of millions of Believers. Don't be timid about speaking the truth and calling out immorality everywhere you see it.
This is about abortion which has killed over 40 Million children – that is 40,000,000.
You cannot compare this to the possibility of a response or preventative first strike.
And what is worse, we have done this to our own people.
By the same token, speak out against the gross immorality of sodomy/homosexuality.
Take a stand against all immorality, in word and deed.
Hey Michael Cecil, The development of the Nuclear Bomb was started by FDR and the decision to drop it on Japan was made by Truman….both Democrats. The only current candidate openly talking about attacking another country is Nobama. You really need to open your mind and check your facts.
Good. I'm glad someone in the Catholic church is criticizing Biden and Pelosi. I'm not a Catholic, but it sure seems like Biden and Pelosi do not uphold the Catholic church's teachings. What hypocrites! I can't believe they still consider themselves Catholics. I guess they're Cafeteria Catholics — pick and choose what you want to practice. Kind of like Liberals now that I think of it.
I doubt you have any figures to back that up. The secrets out, and it's not likely that molesters are being harbored by the authorities anymore. The church is simply policing up their image. If you had people from your particular party/city/family/gang, saying things that didn't properly represent the views of your group, you would likely want to correct them. As for stopping war before stopping abortion, there will never be an end to war. There will always be people willing to die for their beliefs. Am I right?
All you pro choice murderers should have been aborted! Eh!
Not fair! He should have said that the democratic part is "A" Party of Death instead of "The" Party of Death. Of course the democratic is a party of death and proud of it but there are many movements around the world that are just as deadly. Diane Pediculosis and Joe Bidet are primarily Marxists instead of Catholics and you know the Marxist slant on religion.
I like how you guys talk about a nuclear war with Iran yet you guys believe that it is ok to kill a child in the womb the war with Iran which we aren't having right now has been provoked by Iran, we are being provoked right now so if we do have one it will be their fault second of all it's better to strike first then strike last
When did abortion become only a matter of religion? The Pro-Life philosophy is supported by catholic religious doctrine but is equally discovered using basic human reason and philosophy. At best, Biden's "I won't impose" comments are a cop-out; the beginning of a human life is not a question only of religion, but of science and reason. And science supports the life-at-conception stance. At worst, his comments are blasphemous – does he not believe in "truth" as taught by his church?
Just another reason to separate from the Catholic Church because of the hipocrasy. Among the many things I believe that have been taught to me in my 12 yrs of Catholic school are the sanctity of life – all life, to be a good steward of the earth, to serve the poor and less fortunate, etc. I think these values are most closely aligned with the Democratic Party.
The Democratic party is not forcing abortion on anyone – only preserving the rights of the secular society. Abortion is a personal choice. And Roe v Wade is a matter of privacy, not a support of killing a fetus. Imagine there is no Roe v Wade and you've just had a miscarriage and your mother-in-law decided that it was because you were regularly exercising and decided to bring charges against you. Again, it's a matter of privacy.
Killing in war and the death penalty ARE state sponsored that are forced upon our population. We pay taxes and they are using the monies that we pay to kill those on death row and to fashion weaponry.
A soldier in war is carrying out his orders. I guess our police officers are sinners too! Oh and don't forget that drink or two you have before you drive you could kill someone, and all the grease you eat you're killing yourself and don't go kayaking, swimming, hunting, fishing, sailing, skiing,sky diving, bungee jumping, biking cause thats all risky behavior and someone could die. I'm a catholic and I see the Churches and the Liberals view. People make this abortion debate such a big thing. Abortion is a cover for someone making a mistake. If they want an abortion go right ahead. One less low life in the world!
This guy Burke sounds like a right winger to me.
It's about time.
The founding fathers put the "establishment clause" in the Bill of Rights to prevent a church from using secular power to shove its doctrines down our throats. Despite that clause it took a couple of centuries to get rid of the enforcement of church rules by he government. It wasn't all that long ago that most stores could not be opened on Sunday, that you could be fined for mowing your lawn on Sunday, etc.
If a believer wants to follow the rules of his religion, that is fine, but the government has no right to force me to follow them.
It is even more disgusting that the the church of "Pedophile Central" has the guts to preach to us. The church that did their best to keep pedophile priests from jail. The church that gave Cardinal Law, one the most egregious protector of pedophiles a wonderful position in Rome.
I'll make a bet that if a cure for a disease is created using embryonic stem cells, the priests and bishops that have that disease will line up to get the cure.
70 million American Catholics ,if truly convicted of the tennants of their faith, could change the barbaric nature of killing the defenseless unborn. How can we expect God to bless America when we have laws that allow the killing of the very life that he creates? How? Life is precious and fragile and wonderful. People wait with arms open to embrace and love the unwanted child. It is a great stain upon our nation.
As a lifelong agnostic, I'd like to know why the pro-choice side assumes pro-lifers object to abortion on religious grounds.
I have no clue if there's a God, or a herd of Gods, or a pantheon of revered ancestors, or nothing, or whatever. I have no idea where the universe came from or why we are here.
I did pay attention in sixth grade biology class, so I know when the lives of nearly all animals begin, whether they are fish, rats, or people. Those lives begin when cells contributed by parents merge to become new individuals.
Call it a fetus (latin for child or offspring) or whatever else you want, but the simple, technical, religion-free fact is that it's a person.
That the person may be inconvenient for other persons does not change that simple reality.
I had to stop reading the postings. So much hatred thinly veiled as commentary or psudo-insights. Another alcoholic told me not to drink – because he drank are his efforts invalid? Why isn't a voter or a country equally responsible for the death of an innocent baby equal to the licensed doctor/murder? The voter who contributes to political causes that destroy the inner city family (great society) or a feckless government 'education' system that turns out soulless dull imbecilic robots without a nodding acquaintance of the great books – that voter must be held equally responsible. I have yet to hear anyone who cashes a government paycheck be a man, stand up and take responsibility for obscene failures in America. The fortune stolen from those who create jobs, expand the tax base through personal, real risk and piddled away on social engineering and frivolity is a national sin.
This is long over-due. We are one Supreme Court vote away from over-turning Roe vs. Wade. While both parties will justifiably endorse war (Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK & LBJ were all Democrats), only one party will nominate the type of judge who will make this a reality.
NARAL is also a religion of a type with certain moral views as is Planned Parenthood.
If one believes as Catholics do that man is a creature composed of body and soul and made to the image and likeness of God that has certain consequences for one's ethical outlook which in turn affects the way one looks at politics, and candidates for public office.
The maddening thing about the likes of Pelosi,Giuliani, Biden and Kerry is that they all maintain they are Catholics in good standing, particularly at election time or when there is a papal visit, while all the time espousing views that are identical with NARAL and Planned Parenthood.
It's o.k. to crush a viable baby's skull. It's o.k. to watch it die, if despite one's best efforts she is born alive. It's o.k. to press for these wonderful benefits for society. Dare I say posterity?
If abortion on demand is such a good thing then by all means argue for it, but don't claim that what you are doing is consistent with Catholic belief.
The gospel according to John after all differs from that of John Stuart Mill.
If the practice of Catholicism becomes a crime in the USA these folks needn't worry, there'll be no evidence to convict them.
If Roe v. Wade is overruled one day it will not be the end of abortion on demand in the "enlightened states," but there will be many places in the USA where people will choose to restrict it, democratically, acting through their elected representatives.
Criminalization is not al that far fetched. In Massachusetts, Catholic Charities which will not do "gay" adoptions is now out of the adoption business.
So much for liberal 'tolerance.'
I feel a sense of loss for the old Democratic Party. My first political memory is that of my mother and father and aunt staying up all night at the radio to find out if Harry Truman won.
It was hard to leave the Democratic party, but Ronald Reagan was right. I didn't leave it; it left me. I have great misgivings about the Bush version of Republicanism ("41″ and "43")I despise the empire we've become.
But abortion is the litmus test for Democrats. It is their most important issue; it defines what they stand for. You can be a heretic on economic issues like Clinton but don't tread on abortion or gay marriage. Those are csacred canons of the party.
Ah the unalienable rights espoused by our deist forefathers, who would probably be regarded as papists today.
Endowed by the Creator with the unalienable right to life. That's really strong stuff! But don't worry they no longer impose their religion on us.
To all the people that think abortion is a personal choice: You probably would say that slavery is also a personal choice.
Following the Dred Scott decision, it would have been common to hear Democrat politicians stating that they personally believed blacks to be fully human and deserving of freedom, but that they did not believe on imposing their beliefs on others, or on taking away the property rights of slave-owners. The southern states seceded from the Union in order to protect their slavery rights, and the north, led by the first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln prosecuted a war, eventually banishing legal slavery from the nation. Yes, the Democratic party was the party that divided humans into full humans and less-than-humans prior to the Civil War. From the beginning, the Republicans have been the anti-slavery party, the party that believed that all humans were created by God with equal rights that include Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. And the Democrats have not.
Roe v. Wade is the Dred Scott of the last 50 years. It is a horrible decision. It takes a class of humans and defines them as less than human, promotes the privacy "rights" of a different class of humans, and allows the second class to deprive the first class of their right to life, guaranteed, among other places, in the Declaration of Independence. This class warfare is reflected in the Democratic economic, judicial, and other positions, amounting to a kind of tribalism that divides the people of America into small, disparate, mutually antagonistic tribes that are rendered powerless to unite and resist Democrats' usurpation of power.
Political power is the be-all and end-all of the Democratic value system. Divide and conquer, pitting mothers against their children, men against women, young against old, rich against poor, military against civilian, employers against the employed, those who work against those who suckle at the public teat, and dark skinned people against light skinned people, is the tactic they choose. Every single Democratic policy goal supports tribalism. Think about it and you'll see I'm right.
The Church hasn't changed its position, as misstated by one of the mentioned politicians. If the politician cannot abide by the Church's teachings, that politician should be prinipled enough to leave the Church. Considering the politicians mentioned, its no suprise that they lack the integretity to simply leave the Church, they want the votes that are attached to their calling themselves Catholic. They only go to mass when its election time for the photo ops.
I think both parties don't care about abortion, otherwise it would be outlawed by now !!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A7tftOfL dg
MR. Savage
I am finishing up your book, "The Liberal mind…."
I really connect with your books. I have to flip a page or two sometimes because I don't like your rantings but I believe nearly every truth you bring out. But you and all of the others who are talk radio caregivers do not have any answers, with all due respect. You really don't understand the God you talk about sometimes,either. I think you really believe in Him but you don't know who he is. It would take a very long time for me to tell you of the beauty in the Bible concerning the Jewish people and what God is doing in the earth today. But I know that you really care about issues and people and on those days that you are depressed your depression is real I will always listen to you and Rush but I wish you would give somebody a break when they do something that is pro-America and good for the people because you literally have nothing good to say about anyone (The day you criticized Rush was a bad day for me. My my) That is unless they are brain children. You are an intellectual snob. But you could do worse. I don't judge you for that. I love my children and they are "intellectual" One doctor, one personal health fitness trainer, one seller of modular homes and a 24 year old teacher.
I think so many times when I am listening to you that I would like to help you to understand spiritual principles about our world. If you want me to I'll begin to send you units of teaching starting with a timeline of creation and God's will and purpose for us. I've taught it to women. It's actually simple and I am concerned that your unregenerate(not a criticism; a bible truth) mind will think it is complete foolishness. I am sincerely concerned about your mental health
One day I was listening to you and I thought, "This is a lonely, old man". I felt compassion for you. Again, I believe everything you say but I don't like the way you hurt some folks who call you and I would like to hear you say something good about someone. I appreciate your mind. If you are happy with your understanding of God then just file this somewhere. Mary Ann Colter
If you found out tomorrow that your father raped your mother when she became pregnant with you, would you wish you were dead?
The dems are automatically for any evil that comes along: abortion (over 40,000,000 murders so far), embryonic stem cell experimentation, sodomite marriage. They were also the party that defended pornography back when it was an issue – its not an issue anymore – they won that one too, condoms to the kids, Suzie has two mommies in kindergarten etc etc the list goes on and on. And many so called Catholics blindly follow whatever the party dictates forgetting that we were baptized into
Christ, not the democratic or republican party!
I have but one thing to say…. What Would jesus Do! Love the sinner and hate the sin! To deny access to communion or any other sacrament is NOT what Jesus was/is about!
Of course the Democrats aren't the party of Death! Everyone who is smart knows they just want abortions for poor low-class people whose life would stink anyways! It would help the envirobnment too.
And thank the goddess there was no "molesting altar boy" type scandal and cover-up by democrats. I'm sure there is no such thing as a paedophile democrat.
Afterall, a man and a child having sex is an alternative lifest=yle we should celebrate!
Viva democrat family values!
Abortion is MURDER period. If you are not practicing Roman Catholics your comments do not count!
God bless him. It's time to confront these people. Amen, Amen.
THe holy Roman emporer has spoken. Bow down or be burned at the stake.
ABortion is a fake issue. If condoms were passed out in quantity to everyone over the age of puberty around the world… abortion would decline dramatically. BUT NO!!!! the holy emporer would prefer DEATH!
The Holy Roman Emperor wants to control the entire population at the most fundimental biological level. No sex without his approval (marraige license).
Dems are the party of hate and discontent. They thrive on confusion and promote destruction. Obama is the anti-Christ. The Book of Revelation is a preview of things to come. We all have a front row seat!
I vote that it's the vatican who lead some of the greatest purgings of human life, hatred of other religions, and destruction of hope for millions for hundreds of years. The democratic party members look like angels on earth compared to the long and bloody history of the roman catholic church. Learn some history pope. Go forgive a child molestor or something.
Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy et al. should leave the Catholic Church. How can one belong to a church, when that church considers them to be accessories to murder ?
Why be a Cafeteria Catholic, when in lieu of that, one could find a church that considers abortion akin to trimming your toenails ?
Perhaps it is more of a sin for them to leave Catholicism, than to be an accessory to murder ?
I left the Catholic Church for other reasons. I think the Catholic Church gets it right on abotion. Go Figure!!!
There is no hypocracy. Abortion is the taking of INNOCENT life. Our troops are ridding the world of evil just as St. Michael did!
I thought aborted fetuses would go to hell because they did not accept Jesus as their Lord.
Or perhaps aborted fetuses go to the same place that billions of pre-Jesus humans went. (Where is that, exactly?)
I'm always amazed at the hypocrisy of the Left. They say "don't legistlate morality by banning abortion", yet they have no trouble legislating THEIR morality. When it comes to welfare, food stamps, nationalized health care, (the list goes on and on) they're quite willing to collect other's tax dollars at gun point and use it for whatever cause they feel in their moral view is "just".
There is no hypocrisy. Abortion is the taking of INNOCENT life. Our troops are ridding the world of evil just as St. Michael did!
God is the great abortionist given the tens of millions of miscarriages there are every year. Life hangs in the balance all the time – the question is where to draw the line. Does that cigarette and glass of wine which may predate a miscarriage mean the Mom meant harm to the child? And if the focus is on the feotus, why the emphasis on prohibiting contraception? Roe v. Wase presented a plausible and realistic way of making distinctions. The same distinctions when theologians talk about just wars and when men and women are allowed to act barbarically. The funny thing is that all the Catholic hierrarchy is doing here in attacking Democrats is helping the rich in the United States aggrandize more money, despoil the planet further and play games with the lives of millions of people acroos the globe. Religion truly is the opiate of the masses when it is allowed to be used to suppress the demcocratic process
The pope and the GOP agree:
If you are a fetus; God bless you.
If you are a baby; God help you.
If you are not rich; God forgive you.
And if you can see through the sham that is religion; Godamn you.
Killing, eh? How about heretics, everyone affected by the Inquisition, Knights Templar, Dr. Constantine, William Gardiner, shall I continue?
Yes, the Catholics are like every other big religion out there; free to point and accuse, but on the defensive when the accusations come full circle.
Not the spiritual, mind you, but the organizers and followers of big religions.
Ahh yes, paedophiles for McCain! A perfect fit.
The Catholic Church, being a multi-million dollar corporation would probably fit better under the republican corporate umbrella. Let's see now, the church has threated to withhold the sacraments from people who are pro choice, but I haven't heard any such threat about people who are pro death as in capital punishment, war, poverty, withholding medical care, etc. Just another hypocritical corporation, the catholic church is.
The whole issue has been spun to death. The abortion issue isn't about "a women's right to choose". It's about WHEN is the choice made? To put it bluntly, Does she choose to risk creating a life before or after she has sex? Does a drunk driver choose to be a DUI before or after they drink & get behind the wheel? Religion aside, neither side can scientifically prove "when life begins". So why does society not give the same benefit of the doubt to unborn children that they do to convicted murderers on death row?
Abortion isn't legal genocide and should never be compared to it.
People have different views on the creation of life.
Some people believe life begins the very moment of conception, some like myself feel that true life doesn't begin until you are born into the world.
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
I'm sorry but unborn fetuses don't fall under that definition of genocide. It would be more accurately described as a medical act.
You might not agree with abortion, but to decry it as legalized genocide and force millions of others to obey your point of view is ignorant.
People need to quit trying to legislate religious beliefs and views and keep them to discussions with your church buddies.
As you state: "Abortion isn't legal genocide and should never be compared to it." I disagree. There are more than one million babies aborted in this country yearly. In addition, you go on to say: Some people believe life begins the very moment of conception, some like myself feel that true life doesn't begin until you are born into the world." That is your opinion. Many knowledge people feel much differently. So you would kill an unborn baby minutes before it was delivered alive? If it is not murder then why if the baby dies along with the mother in murder of the mother, why is the person charged with killing two? It doesn't make sense.
What if my opinion was arbitrarily that life doesn't begin until you are 60 years old? So for me to cut a hole in your head and suck out your brain with a vacuum would just be a "medical issue," huh? Stupid logic on your part. Life should be respected and revered.
For the "Iran/Abortion" analogy, I've never seen an unborn child/fetus indicate that they want me dead or my/allied country wiped of the face of the earth. So I understand a response that would turn Iran into glass while still preserving the life of an unborn child. The mothers & fathers in Iran of unborn children should get their government & religious leaders to quit threatening other countries. We didn't start it, but we can end it.
My wife and I taught our children that it was a woman's right to choose whether to have an abortion or not. However, we also taught them that abortion was a serious act, not be decided on lightly, and that the fetus was clearly alive and was consciousness just as fully as all life is consciousness. We didn't teach them abortion was a "sin" because we didn't frame it in religious terms. We also taught them that whatever our own beliefs were, it wasn't our place to tell others what to believe or do. We thought we were very reasonable.
Our daughter got pregnant a couple of years back, from an affair with a married man, actually. She told us about it and, while we were concerned about her and her lack of good judgment, we were very supportive and understanding. She told us she was going to get an abortion. We were supportive and understanding.
Our daughter got her abortion at the local "women's clinic." She offered to pay but was told that she didn't need to. "The government will pay for it." (This, even though she had the money and offered to pay.)
Later that day, before going clubbing that evening, my daughter went out with one of her girlfriends and bought a pair of beautiful spiked heels that she calls her "abortion shoes". She thought it was funny.
I am ashamed that my daughter apparently didn't learn more respect for life – or even a modicum of common decency – growing up. Hers was an abortion of convenience – birth control by abortion, if you will. THIS is what the Democratic Party fights for and defends. The right for men and women to get rid of that damn inconvenient baby they made. It's not about raped women, women who are in danger bringing a baby to term, women who can't afford babies, the poor, the minorities, the victims of whatever, etc. etc. It's about modern, young, white women wanting to have their fun, f*** who they want, when they want, and not have to deal with the inconvenient being that results. Talk about an inconvenient truth!
The Democratic Party IS the party of death. It is also the party of the self-indulgent. People who aren't willing to accept the consequences of their actions if something "goes wrong." You might say they're the party of the adolescents of our society (regardless of their age), wanting their "freedoms" but not willing to grow up and accept the responsibilities of adult life. Whether it's an unwanted pregnancy, an unwanted fight against the Hun, an unwanted need to earn a living, an unwanted real-world marketplace that demands that you get an education (or training) and work hard to make a life for yourself and your family. No matter the challenge, the Democrats are first in line to whine about life being "unfair."
Abortion is just one more way we can f*** our way through life and not have to pay the piper.
And I don't even care what the Church says.
Is amazing to read the writings of some bloggers. It does not take a rocket scientist to determine who are sheep (blind dumb followers) and who are people who think for themselves, in other words, use their gray matter (free thinkers). Sheep can not think for themselves, therefore to them, there is no truth other than their own belief and they will blindly follow the sheepherder off of the cliff if that is where the sheepherder leads them. In order to constructively debate any issue, the debater must understand all sides of the issue and discuss it with an open mind. When someone can present a human baby that was grown by any means, without the fertilization of the female egg by a male sperm, then and only then will I be convinced that life does not start at conception. Science proves that life starts at conception, is not just the teaching of christian churches.
Further I will qualify my statement further, no one can say they believe in God and at the same time accept abortion on demand. Has to be oxymoron belief.
Since records have been kept, all civilizations have believed in a superior being, Gods, or a God. They also believed their Gods gave to them and took away from them, accordingly. The greatest minds, one being Albert Einstein, in their writings have all believed in a God. One thing hard to understand is the supreme court justices that ruled in Roe vs Wade that decriminalize abortion for the doctor turned 180 degrees and ruled that doctors could not assist a patient in committing suicide in the Dr Kevorkian case. In the case of the baby, no one is listening for its' voice and it can be killed at will, in the case of the suicide wisher, no one is listening either, however it can not be allowed to die.
First of all, my sincere thanks to all my friends and 'admirers' (not); especially those who accuse me of being, horrors, an "anti-Semite".
The word simply no longer has any real meaning to me.
Zionists have accused the Orthodox Jews of Neturei Karta of being "anti-Semites" for rigidly adhering to the ethical tenets of the Torah and the Prophets in condemnation and violation of the immorality and demands of the Zionists. And I could lift several comments directly from the prophets Isaiah and Hosea, without attribution, who the Zionists would *swear* are indicative of the vilest "anti-Semitism" imaginable.
I've done the research for more than 33 years:
"Anti-Semitism' originates in the misinterpretation of the Doctrine of "resurrection" as the physical raising of a dead body from the grave rather than a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'. This Pharisaic doctrine was the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus; was expropriated, via the Pharisee Paul, as a fundamental Doctrine of the Roman church (named in honor of those who murdered Jesus); adopted by the witless Muslim theologians in violation of the Revelations received by Mohammed; and resulted in the extermination of the Albigensians.
And, for reasons too complicated to explain here, such a doctrine also plays a significant role in the issue of abortion; which is why, no matter what the Roman church claims, it is NEVER in complete disagreement either with abortion or a nuclear war against Muslims.
Some years from now historians, philosopher and scholars will look back upon the era of abortion on demand and ponder how on earth could nations that consider themselves civilized legalized nearly unfettered institutionalize infanticide. They will correctly catagorize those that supported abortion with slavers, those who responsible for concentration camps and gulags and all of history's monsters who would deny another person their basic humanity.
TO follow Biden's line of logic, he believes then that it is murder to abort an unborn child since he states his belief that life begins at conception. He then believes it is not his place to impose his belief on others. The Biden philosophy would logically then say that the question of whether murder is right or wrong is up to an individuals belief system. Noone is guilty of murder. We can kill who we want. And damned are those who judge that person. The next time you are witness to an adult abusing a child…you best not say a thing….Biden as stated that it is up to individual beliefs of right and wrong……
Murder is murder. The argument of "choice" is a shell game that makes it easier for one to swallow…… What is it that they are choosing… Pro life or anti life?
Michael Cecil – I don't see any nuclear war being waged between the USA and Iran. Why are you such an extremist trying to invoke rage against the Republicans? Is it because you are a LEFT WING nutcase???
Hurray for the Vatican, who finally said enough is enough. The Catholic church is now practicing what it preaches. American Catholics are sick of Catholics not following Church doctrine and getting away with it. Including that radical hate mongering Pfleger. If the Catholic church does not stand up for what it preaches more and more of the devout Catholics will fall away from it.
It continues to amaze me that those who call themselves democrats think it is OK to murder over 100,000 babies by abortion,yet are in a uproar when it comes to executing one murderer in prison, truly they are the party of death. The church does not presume to dictate to politicians but if they continue to refer to themselves as Catholics then they must follow the doctrine of the religion or change religions.
Abortion used as Birth Control.
Using abortion as birth control means that abortion is being used as a back-up method to ineffective or improperly used contraception, or no contraception is being used at all. Of women having abortions, 46% did not use contraception during the month they became pregnant, 8% never used a method of birth control, and
47% have had at least one previous abortion.
Although there are situations in which abortion is in response to health concerns of the mother or fetus, or in response to pregnancy arising from abuse, the majority of abortions are obtained for social and financial reasons. The primary reasons given for choosing abortion are given below.
75% say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities, about 75% say they cannot afford a child, 50% do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner. Using abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically.
OBAMA sees accidental survivors of botched abortions as MEDICAL WASTE, undeserving of a doctor's help, undeserving of life. Though he isn't Catholic, he deserves singling out by the Vatican as MANIACALLY EVIL. I picture him drooling as he pushes an old wooden cart heaped with corpses. Such may be his fate for eternity.
The CHURCH has had more deaths in the name of religion than all the abortion clinics in the world.
not only does the catholics believe the demonrats are the party of death BUT ALSO many other Christian groups..
the demonrats are not the party of FDR JFK or even ole Jimma Carter..BUT are now the party of Soros, Pelosi and man-child Obama!..with over 50 million catholics in the USA and many in high political office with the power of government at their disposal.. the Vatican is not going to be silent on another HOLOCAUST!
Democrats are anti-life. Republicans are pro-life. It's the most basic and fundamental black and white difference between the two competing political philosophies. I would vote for Democrats if they were pro-life. But they aren't. They are anti-life. Life trumps all other issues. 1.3 MILLION innocent babies are murdered every year in America largely because of the Democrat's clinging to a culture of death.
Life begins somewhere. Democrats contend that the point at which human life begins is ill-defined. Even more reason to default to the earliest point at which human life MIGHT begin – conception. Can any of you out there tell us definitively when life begins? Can you tell us with enough evidence and authority to unanimously convince a jury of your peers beyond a reasonable doubt that life does not begin at conception…that it instead begins at some later point. If you can't, then you are sentencing what very well could be a human life to a death sentence because that life imposes in some way on your own life. So…you kill the baby. Nice.
It is interesting to see all the mention of nuclear war. This seems to be an odd thing bringing this up since it has only been used twice in the history of the world for purposes of war and that was more than 60 years ago. Besides which last time I checked no one was planning on nuking Iran. (Bombing maybe) Let us also not take Iran out of context they are being led by an man who denied that the Halocaust happened. A person like that is not mentally stable to say the least, not to mention all the times that he has lied and misled the world, by saying that he was going to "be good." (Kinda reminds me of another guy hmmm..oh yeah HITLER) I am not saying that the president of Iran is another Hitler, but I will say that if he had the chance he would kill everyone in Israel not to mention any American he could get a hold of.
This all distract from the main issue however and that is the Catholic Church publicly reprimanding several of its members for supporting a believe that the Church has made clear it does not support. In my estimate if you are not Catholic, you should not be posting.
Let us also not take the quote out of context the article did say that the Democratic Party did risk becoming the party of death on bioethical issues. That is a far cry from every Democrat is evil. As many people have pointed out the Catholic Church also condemns actions that the Republican party is responsible for. So here you have the Catholic Church expressing an opinion and encouraging its members to do the same. so…what's the problem? Don't most organizations want its members to stand for what the organization believes? NRA, MADD, DARE, MOVEON.ORG, should I go on. Let's also not be so naive to think that we don't all, to a degree, want our morals to be legislated. I know I want murder, rape, robbery, theft, etc all immoral and all legislated. So should we stop trying to legislate something just because not everyone believes it is immoral? For myself I can say, by no means will I stop fighting for what I believe. Yes you have a right to disagree, but I have just as much right to likewise disagree.
So here I am posting any way dispite the fact that I am not a Catholic, but still find myself sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. I do apologize. =)
Abortion is not a religious issue, but really is part of under the natural law. Natural law is imbedded in human beings to help them discern right from wrong. Everyone understands that it is wrong to take the property of another without his permission. It is the same with abortion: it is wrong to take the life of an innocent human being. Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, who lived in 600 B.C., wrote: "I will not aid a woman to procure an abortion, though I be asked to do so." Hippocrates was a pagan and yet he understood the natural law.
Religious institutions, such as the Catholic Church, often incorporate the natural law in their teaching.
Thus, the Church teaches that stealing and abortion are both wrong. Would the critics suggest that the Church not teach that stealing is wrong because it is attempting to force its beliefs on others?
God bless Archbishop Burke for his clear thinking and
Kathleen Reid
Abortion is not a medical procedure. Medical procedures are ordered toward health. Killing a fetus does not contribute to its health. Moreover, the fetus is genetically human–not just genetically human tissue, but having a complete genetic code of its own, it is a living human being. Anyone who claims that killing a conceptus is not killing a human being is in need of studying genetics. There is no doubt that the being that is killed in abortion is genetically human.
Burke and the Catholic Church love life so much thet actively fight in court to protect pedofiles who have ruined the lives of men and women through out the world. They actively hide them to this day. His Diocese harbored the refugees from the pedofile camp for priests in New Mexico that had to be shut down because of the problem caused by priests who had been stashed secretly there but allowed to prey on young people during weekend furloughsn for parish work. Lecture me later.
It was not always Catholic doctrine that life begins at conception, true? Augustine, Acquinas, and Gregory XIV all wrote that personhood really starts at "quickening" or thereabouts, often 40 days. Not until 1869 did Pius IX definitely peg "personhood" at conception and consider abortion to be killing a person if occuring after the moment of conception.
Anyway, where is concern over "culture of death" expressed by indulgent notions of when war is justified, or the deaths caused by destitution, neglect in the health care system, etc, in a country that doesn't have universal health care and a fully functional safety net like almost all industrialized nations?
Great, I hope he gets all the Roman clergy to take to the pulpit and preach politics then the Government can tax the Roman Church Instead of leaching off of local Governments for services It's about time the Church paid its fair share!
There is no "gray area" about abortion when a living breathing baby is delivered alive and taken to a laundry area and laid on a table for a couple of hours to die. That's disgusting beyond belief. How about delivering a healthy baby breach and then, when only the head is still inside the mother, cutting into it's head and sucking the brains out. why? The mother finds it inconvenient to have a living child today. It's murder plain and simple of the grossest and most disgusting kind.
[…] Faithworld […]
[…] Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as "party of death" […]
To all who have commented in this blog who are standing up for life, I commend you. For all of you who have commented and have professed that you are in league with the culture of death. . .I pity you. For what goes around will come around.
[…] October 3, 2008 Vatican calls Democrats "the party of death". In other news, all other men in dresses aren't taken this seriously. Posted by hillbuzz under Uncategorized Regarding: Vatican Official Attacks Democrats as "the party of death" […]
when abraham kicked ishmael (sarahs first son)out of his house for picking on isaac, the split in religions began – jesus from isaac – muhammad from ishmael. its all the same story, there is no true or false to this b.s., they are both true and they are both b.s. and they are both responsible for most everything, and they both suck and neither of them behaves in a manner befitting truly god-fearing people.
I don't understand why folks take this cult and it's leader so seriously. Read your King James Bible and see the truth, and don't listen to men whom wear skirts and funny hats. Pray to Jesus, not Mary, he listens, she is dead.
I'm proud of the Vatican official from St. Louis! The vile slow-motion spread of the culture of death at the hands of brainless Hollywood self-serving jerks and the ethically challenged weaklings in our populace is exactly what the world-wide marxist murderers of humanity need to do to the sanctity of our society for them to win against civilization.
The ones who try to equate war with abortion should be ashamed of themselves. The Biblical admonishment, "Thou Shall not Kill" is really "Thou Shall Not Murder". Warfare to protect your family, your village, city, Nation, way of life has never been admonished. The people who have made this argument are actually murderers by proxy in service of the seventh century Moslem extremists.
The Vatican consistently sticks to it's principles. It speaks out for the sanctity of life, not just in the case of abortion but also in regard to the death penalty and wars. I am a Democrat and a Catholic. I am disappointed that the party that wants my vote would also mock my convictions. The convictions will win out in this election.
Women have been TAUGHT by the abortionists that this is an issue of "control over their own body", but this is just words. No doctor in any state in the union would allow you to have your healthy legs removed surgically. That IS your own body. A baby is just living in the woman's body until it can function on its own. DON'T let someone talk you into murdering your own child so they can make money.
Oh DAAAAVE (athiest from above )
I believe that ALL morality should be subjective as you do..It's a personal choice right Dave. YOU see it as ok for you to let people kill innocent helpless infants in the womb. I have equally subjectively decided that all people named Dave should be used for my shark chum line.
You see Dave….it's a personal choice of mine. How dare you even think your morality is superior to mine. I mean this is a deeply helf belief I just came to after reading your post. Without a set of immutable rules (Thou Shalt Not Murder) for example any one can do as they please. All you need is enough strength or number or both and you can do as you please.
In America we are good people Dave. We protect the innocent Dave. Yes outlawing the completely unnatural act of infanticide will create problems. Tough, we are Americans Dave. We had honor once. We would not kill the innocent for convenience or profit.
Human life from conception in America is precious Dave. Even one so clueless as yours. BTW…………….
I heading out shark fishing this weekend….busy?
What exactly is the benefit of being tax exempt to the Catholic Church? Free stamps? The Catholic Church opted out of social security and thus medicare. The priests and religious don't even enough money to pay any taxes! Look it up.
The Democrats know that if they can make you approve of killing the most innocent of life as a convenience with out a pause of conscience. Then anything goes no matter how evil. No lines to cross no barriers to forge all is allowable. For nothing is more evil than a mother killing their own child. It lowers the bar for all evil.
if there is one organization that should "leave ceasars things to ceasar and gods things to god" you would think it is this one. given their track record, the self righteousness is amazing.
Where was his outrage when priests were molesting children? I'll listen to the Vatican when it returns Cardinal Law to Boston to stand trial for his crimes against children.
Judge not, lest ye be judged thyself…Bishop.
Number one kindly quit reffering to him as a mistake as I never said that. I said a "mistake" happened, meaning the condom breaking.
You nut job religious freaks instantly attack me simply because I disagree with you and don't share your "values".
I never once said I was for partial birth abortions, yet that's the ONLY abortions used to support your idea that Roe V Wade needs to be over turned.
In fact, partial birth abortions should be illegal in my opinion.
However the majority of abortions done in this country are during the first trimester. The least performed abortion is the partial birth abortion, yet you portray all abortions as the same which is untrue.
It is like you feel it is ok to attack me, distort the truth, all to further your ideals. You're all such wonderful "christians".
Using the argument "Thou shalt not kill" as a reason to overturn Roe V Wade is insane. That is your religious doctrine, not mine.
Our ideas on what "murder" is differs.
I urge people to read this.
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers .html
To C W Walker,
The Bible does not say "thou shalt not kill". It says "thou shalt no murder". I goes on to explain the difference.
For those of you who will "never kill for any reason, period". Keep in mind that the only reason you can take that position is that there is and have been people that would take a human life to allow you the freedom to speak at all.
Thou shalt not kill.
It's black and white and that simple; all else is quibbling before God.
i love these comments. great debates going on.
First, it is unethical for any human being to claim certain ethical convictions while refusing to defend them in any way that affects his/her popularity.
that is exactly the predicament a pro-"choice" Catholic politician is in.
Non-Catholic may not understand this, but its very simple: you dont get to pick the doctrines and teachings you like the most.
A Catholic who promotes the unstitutionalizing of abortion, & does nothing to promote alternatives to women who find themselves "choosing" them are standing squarely against their own Church.
Pelosi and Biden should get it right & quit speaking on issues they know nothing about (especially when they ought to know better)
Second, yes, it is merely "popularity" that motivates them. No one heard abolitionists in the 1840's chanting "I'm personally opposed to slavery as a 'religious matter', but I dare not impose my religion on others. Church & State!"
No, you see, abortion, slavery, murder, rape, theft, oppression, unjust wars, and the degradation of other human beings are not things you get to play Ponitus Pilate with.
Yes, my Church stands in oppostion to abortion. That doesnt mean, that everything my Church supports and rejects but be conversly rejected and supported by my country.
that argument is based on abject lunacy. supporting alternatives to abortion and finding solutions that help women avoid them and yes even legal restriction on them, is not a violation of the separation of Church and State.
Funny to see all the anti-Catholics in the comments, as they don't want to play by rules foundated by Jesus H. Christ himself. So here's one: If you're not Catholic, then don't comment. If you don't vote, don't complain. Learn some rules and limits and learn to shut-up. Also, for the Bush bashers, get over it. That ship sailed and left, and all I see are it's distant sails near the horizon. Morons with a mental condition.
I've read way too many posts here bashing the Catholic Church. I don't think that Archbishop Burke has told anyone how to vote. More specifically, he did NOT tell Biden or Pelosi how to vote.
He DID tell them how to be good Catholics. If they don't want to be good Catholics, if they want to give public scandal concerning the teachings of the Church, they don't have to stay in the Church.
They should leave the Church if they don't like its teaching or have the fortitude to show even a modicum of personal courage for standing up for their personal beliefs.
Excuse me, but most Democrats are pro-CHOICE, not pro-abortion. There is a distinct difference whether you want to believe it or not. I don't believe abortion should be an automatic solution for unsafe sex, but if a woman becomes pregnant through rape or incest, or if the health of a fetus or its mother would be in jeopardy, then yes, they should have the right to an abortion without people who don't even know them passing judgement. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Who could possibly care what the Catholic Church says or thinks. They have absolutely no control over anything I do and will never. These pedophile protecting fools are just out of touch with reality and function with a 10th century mind. Deny all, control all, take the gold and run — for centuries this has been their attitude and it never changes. To Hell with them.
But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself.
And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?
How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion? As always, we must persuade her with love and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even His life to love us. So, the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love, that is, to give until it hurts her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts.
By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems.
And, by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion.
Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion.
Many people are very, very concerned with the children of India, with the children of Africa where quite a few die of hunger, and so on. Many people are also concerned about all the violence in this great country of the United States. These concerns are very good. But often these same people are not concerned with the millions who are being killed by the deliberate decision of their own mothers.
And this is what is the greatest destroyer of peace today – abortion which brings people to such blindness.
Mother Theresa
It is rare when I agree with the Catholic church. I personally don't consider anyone who is pro-abortion or supports a candidate who is pro-abortion to be a Christian.
You and I and All are contemporaries on the EARTH at this time as well as ALL those who preceded us are/were CONDITIONED ANIMALS.
Unless, one realizes this phenomenon – he/she will have their being as a CONDITIONED ANIMAL.
Those who seek to render religious figures as irrelevant, while raising their own political ideologies and political figures to religious heights, are the epitome of hypocrisy.
The democrats scream "CHOICE", without defining their choice; "CHANGE", without defining their change, and "HOPE", without defining their hope beyond taking power.
The miasma of the democrats' rhetoric, notably the been-nowhere, done-nothing Barack Obama, is a dark, dark chapter in the history of American politics.
Here they go again. The Republican Party at its best propaganda. I have been a ctholic now for 73 yrs and I swear I have heard it all now. If this were true of Priest and Bishops telling us how to vote mind you the Catholic Church would hav a lot of empty pews EH? Here's the way the lord would put it "He who is without sin please come and cast the first stone" To you Republicans it is also a sin to fabricate lies so cleanse your mouth. So please clean up your own act before accusing others. It is also the sin of the woman who aborts her baby and not yours. So please let GOD be the desiding Judge Okay? Not you Republicans who bring up abortion on every election.
The Vatican is not in any way endorsing the Republican Party or any other party for that matter. They are simply warning Catholics that it is immoral and sinful to be affiliated with the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is so far gone on issues of morality that it is dangerous for people of the faith to subscribe to their intolerant, anti-religion, left wing ideologies. Democrats in positions of power seek to redefine the mores of society which have represented the wisdom of the ages and the foundation for the laws of most civilizations. Redefining accepted morals so as to welcome the immoral will ultimately lead to the downfall of our civilization. Corruption, greed, immorality and evil are symptoms of this moral bankruptcy infecting society. At least somebody in a position of moral authority is speaking out.
The real issue here is that IF good christians weren't going to abortion clinics they would be out of business. We can not shove our religion down another persons throat jsut because we bellieve it is the ways things should be. The non believers have a right to get abortions. The constitution protects them from people llike us. Hmmm sounds like what we are fighting for in a Muslim country. We in Wisconsin know the Bishop Burke from La Crosse is a wack job and were glad to see him assigned to St. Louis.
I believe that the Catholic Church and Protestant Churches have remained mute to long and should make they voice heard. The Catholic Church position and statements concerning their teachings are right and proper. Politician's seeking to sway voters by compromising their religious tenants for selfish gains is not criminal but a good definition of evil. In the Old Testament the first words given man from God were the three Great Blessings of Be Fruitful, Multiply and take dominion. Evil was created when individuals sought to fulfill those blessings for selfish reasons.
Individuals seeking to argue when life begins are far too often unwilling to recognize that even in the womb a baby is a live. The New Testament scripture has the story of Elizabeth's baby while in the womb responding to the presence Jesus' mother. New innocent life needs protection and nurturing. Choice by adults should be to defined as to how they are responsible for their actions.
The U.S. Democratic party has shifted to far to the liberal spectrum and does not value life. The Liberal Democratic Party uses any means necessary to gain and hold power and does not honor nor respect life. World history has seen to often political movements claiming to be working for the people. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot all spoke about creating worlds of prosperity. All of these mad men were elegant speakers who were gifted in pointing out the problems in the world. Their solutions always brought misery and death because they evil.
The world still has evil men seeking to prosper by using even the people of faith to achieve their goals of power and position. Religious men and women and they institutions have a voice and responsibility to see God's work done. We all fall short of the glory of God but his work is stilling waiting for us to accomplish. The body of Christ needs to show everyone the correct way in finding peace and prosperity.
You're quite the Lefty Michael, and not a very bright one at that. You wouldn't understand spiritual ramifications of infant abortion if it slapped you upside the head. I pity you.
Joe Biden and Barack Obama say that they are personally against abortion, but they cannot impose their beliefs on others. What about stealing, lying, murder, false witness, slavery, child molestation? Where does their lunacy end? Is a fetus human or not? If Joe and Barack think it is wrong, then have they no courage of their convictions? If one believes in something, then one should stand up for his beliefs. What about the Constitution of the United States of America? Barack and Joe say they believe in that? Aren't those laws an imposition of morality? Will they waffle and not protect and defend it? They are really pathetic cowards masquerading as leaders. There is truth, but Barack and Joe don't have it. Sorry to burst your intellectually vacant bubbles.
Often times people make the mistake of saying because of the separation of church and state that church are not allowed to have a stance on political issues nor should we vote based on what we are taught at church. Both are outrageous misinterpretations of the truth. We are to vote according to what we believe is right and wrong and we go to church because we believe was is being taught is right. I have no problem with a priest of any faith having a position on a moral issue to have it made known and furthermore to say that those who attend their sermons should feel that way. After all, don't we go to church because we believe we are being led by men of God?
I am a person struggling to follow the example of Jesus Christ through the teachings of the Catholic Church. I have read many comments and I am saddened by the lack of love shown by those supporting life. It seems that many writers who fair well as the Pharisees Jesus confronted. You know the Law, but have hardend Hearts. I wish that the bishops would speak to the politicians in private about these issues and not be so arrogant as to politicize these questions. Jesus refused to be politicized in His life and He is our Leader and Model.
I have not always been against abortion. But I do believe it is wrong. I equally believe that war and capital punishment is wrong and Jesus taught against all killing. It is ironic that people who support capital punishment forget that Jesus was one of many innocent victims.
Often people who misuse the word Christianity forget this and this is a historical fact. From the Crusades to Iraq, Christ name have been used to justify murder.
My point is that as Christians we must be consistent. Yes, we must stand against abortion, And Capital Punishment, And War, and World Povery(slow death), and All the conditions that lead many poor people to abortion. We must also remember and live the Beatitudes spoken by Jesus. Many of us forget Blessed and the Humble…and Blessed are the Peacemakers. Who are we to throw the first stone. I am not sin-free and I do not judge anyone abortion that is for Our Lord, but I do not support it.
The Holy See was against the war in Iraq before Joe Biden was for it. I got news for these "Catholic" politicians: Christians who don't follow the teaching of the Vatican are called "Protestants". Joe, Nancy, the Kennedys, Kerry, Durbin…are all Protestants who attend Catholic services.
"if a woman becomes pregnant through rape or incest…then yes, they should have the right to an abortion without people who don't even know them passing judgement"
you mean,
if a child is conceived, allegedly through rape or incest…then yes, that child has no protection under the murder laws – which normally protect millions of people that you and I don't know.
BTW, Are you saying that abortion outside the "exceptions" you list is unconscionable murder? Are you campaigning to clamp down on these unjustifiable killings?
Well, finally someone besides Republicans recognize the truth…. Democrats must go or be converted.
So Sayeth the Impaler!
I have read too often about not being able to legislate your religious views on anyone. I have two points on this. When you legislate in favor of abortion youbhave already imposed your view on the unborn. What chance did the child have to speak its mind? Second, the gentlemen who wrote the us constitution certainly imposed their view on the document. They knew power should be separated because human beings have a tendan y towards corruption when they are too strong. They also wrote extensively abouthow an immoral people can not be governed. They also envisioned a country run on principles that are then written into law and the basis of these principles were the ten commandments. This document, has served us well. In the one instance where these principles were violated the row vesus wade decision on abortion, it has left a permanent scar on America.
[God said that all days are planned out for you. This tells us that your life is planned before conception.]
This tells us no such thing but is a lot of wishful thinking on your part.
[It was not always Catholic doctrine that life begins at conception, true? Augustine, Acquinas, and Gregory XIV all wrote that personhood really starts at "quickening" or thereabouts, often 40 days. Not until 1869 did Pius IX definitely peg "personhood" at conception and consider abortion to be killing a person if occuring after the moment of conception.]
This is true to a point. There was a broader spectrum of theological views on this matter prior to the seventeenth century when the view of conception (and based on faulty cosmological views) first took root in Catholic thought. Furthermore, this view was not in the majority until after 1869 -indeed there are many Catholic saints who viewed matters differently including St. Alphonsis Ligouri as late as the late eighteenth century.
There is no actual Catholic doctrine on when life begins -indeed the Church has admitted to as much though that does not get anywhere near the advertisement as all the "from conception to natural death" statements. And anyone familiar with Catholic doctrine knows that the idea that life has to perdure until natural death is contrary to Catholic teaching pertaining to the right of the state to execute within certain parameters. Also, as this is a scientific answer predominantly, there strictly speaking cannot be. It is true that the predominant view today amongst Catholics is that it begins at conception but that foundation is not as solid as many on this thread so confidently postulate. Indeed rationally it has no shortage of problems to it but I am not about to delve into them right now.
I for one tire of the false dichotomy that somehow the only options for this are either "at birth" or "at conception." There are other options as well and taking that view does not make someone more or less a Catholic even if they are in the current minority admittedly.
Anyone in this blog who continues to use blasphemy against the Catholic church is simply uneducated about church history. Remember, Jesus picked His own betrayer. The actions of a few does not mean it is endorsed by the church. Sure we've had bad popes but that does not mean their actions represent the teachings of the church. Regarding abortion: plain and simple. It is murder. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If you are Catholic, you must take a stand and not vote for candidates who are pro-choice. You say that you are against the war and yet it is ok to terminate a life in the womb. Unbelievable.
I was going to vote for Obama and I encouraged others to vote for him; but now I see how wrong this is.
Obama encourages the death of innocents.
I pray for Joe Biden and I pray he will no longer serve as the VP nominee.
@ Jonathan, who wrote: "Party of death? If that's the case, then Catholocism is the religion of death. Crusades anyone? What about the inquisition? Good times."
You should try researching history rather than repeating the same, tired argument that atheists have been using for at least the last several decades.
The First Crusade was a reaction to Muslim encroachment into Europe (specifically Spain) and the predominantly Christian territories of Palestine and Syria. While further Crusades may not have been as noble an undertaking, they were, in general, usurped by the secular powers as an end to justify their means.
The Inquisition most often referenced as a slight against the church is more specifically called The Spanish Inquisition, and this was largely perpetrated by the Spanish King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. The Church only authorized an inquisition when Ferdinand threatened to withdraw military support from Rome at a time when they were threatened by the Turks. The Pope himself later accused the monarchs of overzealousness and greed and attempted unsuccessfully to stop the inquisition.
It's my hope that next time you think to perpetuate a slanderous myth which has done far more harm than good over the years, you'll know your history a little better. Just remember that if you decide to repeat it again, it will be a lie rather than an error.
Most U.S. polls for many years found that most Americans admit that abortion is murder. Legalized abortion has thus, so far, murdered 49 million people in the U.S., and many times that many internationally. In those countries that are controlled by dictators, the people are obviously much less responsible for these mass murders. But in the democracies, the people will someday ultimately each answer for any assistance they gave by their votes for each of these many millions of murders. We should pray for them, ourselves, and for all of the world's afflicted.
Obama spoke at Planned Parenthood (the U.S. group with hundreds of abortion-for-profit centers). Obama told them that he would make "reproductive health" (abortion) the "heart" of his national health system. Making abortion the "heart" of a health system must seem a bit of an abomination even to most hard-core "pro-choice" voters.
The catholic church has to look at all sins the same way.
Just fyi – Since life begins at conception, as every reputable biologist has said since conception was discovered, this is a factual issue affecting everyone and not limited to one particlar faith. It is illegal to kill innocent humans in the United States.
For catholics, there is no issue as to when life begins because every life has a soul and this apparently, just appears at conception. Why a sperm does not have a soul, or an ovum does not have a soul, is not clear. Perhaps each cancer has a soul. Why do humans have a soul and not apes, or starfish? It all smacks of a blindingly crude hypocracy and arrogance. Man in god's image? Bah ,that's one unimaginative god. Parochial, medi-evil mores are all these 'truth' peddles have to offer. Barging in on other people's lives is the best they can do when 'their' bizarre take on life is the one that fosters and protects predators.
The ultimate arrogance is the claim to ultimate truth. Luckily enough, should this miraculously be the way things are, they we were all screwed before we came into this world anyway.
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catholoism like all satanic mystical cults should be banned and the clueless evil clones who run it jailed for spreading their filth around the world.
Any political party who would nominate for President of the United States, an individual who has in their political past, advocated infanticide should give anyone pause for concern. Such an advocacy is no different and as horrific as the deeds of Joseph Mengele. The Bishop is SPOT ON. Now I hope the rest of the Catholic Bishops in the United States grow some stones and take a firm and vocal stand against these liberal Catholic politicians.
This article makes it very clear that the Catholic church should be a tax exempt organization. IRS—Are you listening?
Don't you love when Catholics pretend to be superior in moral issues but after all, all you see is priests molesting innocent children.
Go bless Bishop Burke. As a practicing catholic who attended catholic schools for 16 years I am proud of his outspokeness on this issue. If american catholics followed the church teachings on abortion they would never support the democratic party or platform. It is unfortunate that most catholics I have met in my life, here in New Jersey support the democratic party. It is time they rethink thier decision to constantly back the democratic party and its view on abortion.
Already living in our Country:
Nearly 10 million children age 18 and under are uninsured. * More than 90% of them have one or more parents who work. *
60% live in two-parent families. *
70% have incomes below 200% of the federal poverty level (1997). *
They make up 70% of all newly uninsured Americans (1996), while the number of children without private insurance grows by roughly 3,000 every day. *
Make sure your political endorsement cares for the babies that are already living in your city or town. Make sure that our system is prepared to provide care for these children. If you haven't seen them – I challenge you: drive to the poor side of town, get out and talk to these families. The problems they are facing are tremendous.
Vote with your heart AND your mind. You can't build a mansion on a broken foundation and expect it to stand.
I love how liberals talk about forcing morals on others as being 'wrong'. That in itself is a self-refuting fallacy. Liberals force their own particular morals on others all the time. The whole concept of wealth redistribution is a morally motivated policy.
So, really, liberals have no problem with some sort of morality being imposed on others, as long as it is a humanistic, socialistic, statist morality versus a traditional morality from any religion. It's acceptable in the book of liberals to use government agents to force one group to pay for the charity of another group, or to use the schools to indoctrinate students to their morality code. In the USSR, even the communists had their own morality code. Anything that was seen as not beneficial to the state was immoral. Both Cuba (still) and the USSR imprisoned homosexuals because that was seen as immoral and destructive to the state (communism being where liberalism was derived from).
Oh, by the way (to the person bent out of shape about wars), the Vatican has been very critical of the actions of the right in terms of Iraq and other war-mongering issues.
Wow! I never thought I would found myself on the same side as the pro-lifers but Obama is bringing us all together for the Republicans!
Truth doesn't sit well with these libs. They truly don't see the big picture.
Please do not use the "casting the first stone" as an offense or defense of your position, until you get used to taking Jesus in context. He finished the incident by telling the woman, "Go and sin no more". She had been forgiven, shown mercey, and enlightened, and is now expected to work out her salvation with change. Politicians who continue to shun the truth about killing unborn Americans, euthanizing the old and sick like Nazis, and their Communist twisting of