text:
Meanwhile in Estonia, people caught for participating in riots against "the bronze soldier re-positioning" are being held in the hanger, all handcuffed, forced to seat on the floor, from time to time being baton by policemen, at least this what can be seen in this hidden cameraphone video, smuggled from out there.
304 thoughts on "Meanwhile in Estonia"
Looks like typical russian speaking white trash.
Yes, that's what makes them Euro-Trash!
I worked with the americans for a long time and know what did they mean having said EURO-TRASH, Finnish pics are among them exactly-if you have no hoof instead of your face,barstar?
Starshii, I don't know why you add a skin pigmentation issue to the whole story. Are you "black", "white" or "yellow" and unhappy about your social situation or what? Then start searching the problem on yourself and do never blame skin color if you have no other answer. "White trash"….ridiculous and far from adding value to the discussion. Racist. What ever color your skin has.
Dear brit, "white trash" is an expression wildly used in american-english. It´s not very PC I admit, but it´s definately not rasistic. Besides beeing very white person myself too I take the right to use this expression freely.
And I think that is the best word to describe those people destroying public and private property. I feel no pity or sympathy towards that russian speaking white trash!
Definition of white trash: Texas1
I wonder what Russian Omontsi did to those "nesoglasnih" protestors in Moscow and St.Petersburg.
Brutality is always wrong in both sides of conflict!
And lets not forget Guantanamo ect.
"I wonder what Russian Omontsi did to those "nesoglasnih" protestors in Moscow and St.Petersburg."
Gary Casparov was free on the next day, participating to a visio-conference with the western media (saw him on French TV.) And where is the leader of the Nochnoï Dozor organisation after he's been arrested by the estonian police?
Oh, I know, it was Casparov's double. The real Casparov is being detained and tortured by Pd Putin personally.
Estonians, what's next? Death camps for Russians?
Fascism in Estonia is on the rise! Nazism in Estonia is glorified!
Sarah, you are so ignorant. When are you going to grow up?
Well… In civilised countries like Germany for example, people can be imprisoned for giving a Hitler salute.
In Estonia its obviously encouraged. What more can I say??
Shame on you Estonians!!! Did you forget the Holocaust?
Did you foreget how many innocent Jewish children you burned alive?
You just carry on saluting Hitler all the way to hell!!
I call upon all the Jewish and russian people, to live this country full of hate, and make life better for you and your families!!
Please stop connecting Hitler and Estonia. Find ANY person who has really been in Estonia and ask from him if he/she found any hating from here. He/she will tell you that you will not find any. Or come see for yourself and you will see that Russian propaganda is a pure BS.
I can tell you smth a lot different that you can also check by yourself, because it's a reality: we have so much problems with Russians here in Estonia.
At one hand, there are lots of Russians well-integrated into our society who are really nice and adored persons who are liked by both Estonians and Russians. And many of them are simple working class, but still very good and nice citizens.
BUT, also reality is that most (about 70-80%) of law-breakings, killings, gang racketeering etc are done by Russians. Russians have completely different names that Estonians, so it's quite easy to distinguish if person mentioned somewhere is Russian or Estonian. And it's everyday's life that most of the names you hear from daily criminal news are Russian ones.
Well after years of discrimination, nonexistence of equal opportunities, and criminalisation or ethnic russians, – I'm not surprised they turn to crime.
I was lucky or(unlucky) enough to travel through the most of Baltic states and speak to local ethnic russians. From this experience, I have gathered, that they are being mistreated, discriminated against, and are generally second class citizens..
The sad thing is, that, things are getting worse for those poor russians who have to commit crimes in order to stay alive, or pay for the slumps that they live in.
I strongly encourage people from the west to go to these countries and speak to some ethnic russias, rather than listening to opinions of people on this site..
People must also understend, that opinions of ethnic Estonians are the result of bitterness (rightly or wrongly)
for the Soviet Union and its leaders. They must get their frustration out on someone and russians are the easiest targets.
One can not be truly objective when thay are still angry or frustrated. + their opinions are greatly influenced by "also" frustrated media and government officials who still hold a lot of grudges..
I sincerely hope, that at least someone might see the realty of this situation. 🙂
There were no fascists in St.Petersburg or Moscow killing black students. Estonian tourists did this.
"Пробили блокаду из внутри" – isn't this about Russian Nazis of St.Petersburg?
There are fascists in Moscow and St.Petersburg. And I realy hope russian government will tighten laws to combat this probelm.
I'm not just against Estonian fascism, I'm against all fascism, racism, anti-semitism and any other forms of discrimination>>
Why can't we all just respect and love eachothers differences??
Accepting other people and their opinions sounds like good advice. Maybe you should take it.
Don't take offence, but are you even consious of the deep irony of a Russian (assuming that you are) refering to Germany as a civilized country? Your grandfather would be shocked with horror. Just an example of the healing effects of time.
hail to Abramovs;)
well… ?
All the people in Estonia must have equal rights to vote!!! Otherwise the national minority does not have an opportunity to influence the political events in their own country except from making these acts of vandalism. And this is not the worst one that had happened on Thursday-Friday. Accumulation of bitterness in society leads to terrible situations.
Can you tell me any country where forigners and tourists have a right to vote? I haven't heard that Estonian citizens living in Russia have a right to vote there. Have they?
Soviet Union IS NOT coming back, still some part of russians enjoying much better life in Estonia than they would have in Russia are hoping for some miracle to happen. It's NOT going to happen. We, Estonians, are a small but brave nation and we want to build our own country. Everybody who wants to do this WITH us is always welcome, those who doesn't are free to leave. Not like it was at soviet times when there was no easy way to leave a monstrum country.
If a Russian person living in Estonia is taking Russian citizenship then it's his/her decision. If they are taking no citizenship at all then this is also their decision and it makes life much-much harder for them: no easy way to travel around in EU countries etc etc.
There are countries where foreigners have the right to vote if they have lived there for a certain time and if they're legal inmigrants. It happens here, in Spain, for example.
Spain is a big country that can make such things easier without having to worry about big influences. Estonia is such a small country (just take a quick look at the map, please!!!). Because of size of our country and our nation we can't loosen some laws. This is also why there's a requirement of succesful Estonian language exam for getting a citizenship.
When you are a small country of a small nation next to the really big country of big nation that has occupied you recently for 50 years then you don't want to open borders and let everybody in for just "Hello!" and let incomers have a voting right just for nothing.
Monaco and San Marino and other small countries next to big naighbors have these kind of problems, big countries like Germany and France and Russia don't.
Estonia is removing not "old sign of communist era", but the sign of Saint War for Russia.
11 millions of Russian soldiers died in the battles against Germany.
16 millions civilians on the occupied were killed by Germans. Many women and female children were raped by Germans before death, many people were taken into slavery do German's camps, many people died because of starvation cos' Germans burnt out all food and sowing or in blockade of Leningrad.
WW2 is Saint War for Russians. This war cost Russians so much pain. As i said before, Estonia is removing not the sign of communism, but the sign of soldiers that laid there lives in the Saint War.
Running the risk of miximg myself in affairs I know nothing about (I'm Dutch), I would like to ask respectfully to the Russians on this forum why the moving of this monument hits such an open vein. After all it's not being cleaned up, it's only being moved to a more appropriate place. The monument continues to exist in all way, shape and form, just not at the current location. Hell, even Zhirik agrees that Estonia is well within bounds to move it.
So I conclude that this isn't about the monument per se, it's some sleeping dog that got woken, just like with the "Danish Cartoon Riots" in the Islamic world. And now it gets interesting — can someone point out to me, hopefully in a civilized way, why this is? Why does the Russian-Estonian community suddenly rally arounf this? Is it, as an Estonian friend of mine suggested, the relative poverty many Estonian Russians are living in? I really wonder. Because if you ask me, it's not about the Bronze Soldier at all.
After all it's not being cleaned up, it's only being moved to a more appropriate place.
Estonian government announced that it want not to destroy it, but to move only several days after the monument was removed from original place.
Sarah, you are absolutelly misinformed.
I can assure you sure that the story has been the same for this all event: the statue became a problem because people who wanted soviet times back and also ultracommunists used this statue for rallying against Estonian government. This became really bad one year ago when celebration of May 9th turned into fights between Russians and Estonians. To end this the plan was announced to move this statue away from the center of city so it would not create so much conflicts between Estonians and Russians.
It was planned and clearly explained that bodies are digged up and examined before moving them to the cemetery and bronze guy after them. It was planned that digging takes about two weeks, then moving a statue happens. But russians started to run amock and destroy shops and put kiosks in fire so quick decision was taken and soldier was moved to the safe place.
BY THE WAY: SOLDIER IS UP AND AVAILABLE IN A NEW PLACE!! All those Russian statue-lovers can go an check that his feet and not cut off as was shown in englishrussia.com two days ago.
Brick-wall will be restored in a month.
Can you give a link to news NOT LATER THAN THIS FRIDAY saying that the soldier would be moved, not destroyed?
not in russian propagandist news you wont 🙂
I could search back to 2006, but I am lazy.
I really didn't know about that. But the words about destroying sounded very much like truth, because of what Polish politics say and many other things. Still, there was no need to do that! Not informing society enough and the fact that so many people believed it — was the fault of Estonian goverment. Now people suffer for just trying to save the memory of their relatives – which is not so felonious. Young teen boys are kept with their arms bonded for not the first day and watch armed estonian policemen beating somebody by legs – who will grow up from these boys? Will they like Estonians? :(((
Estonian patriot:
well they already screamed "russia russia" on the streets and smashed windows, stole sprite or armani suits, that's why these estonian-loving teenagers ended up there in the first
did you expect a five star resort?
http://tuvasta.politsei.ee might be also interesting to you
I'm really, really sure that everybody in Estonia was well informed about moving, not destroying. I don't know about other countries, but here in Estonia elections campaigns are took really seriously, so you could hear and see political promises from different partyies about MOVING or NOT MOVING about 20+ times a day from different kinds of media during the last February.
Instead of worrying about Estonia, we are doing well and friendly here along with friendlier part of Russian community, you should be really worried about Russia's propaganda and ignorance in accepting small nations wish to have independence. Russia would not care to make another Chechnya in Estonia and brutally kill natives for no actual reason, but fortunately Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are part of NATO and EU, so our Big Neighbor must have his filthy hands.
I can ASSURE you: there will be only words and screaming from Russia's side, but no actual actions – no cancellation of relationship, no economical embargo. Why? Because Russia has been really badly keen for getting into good economical relationships with EU. For the last year the last problem was Poland who put veto on Russia's plans because Russia blocked some of their products. Last time I heard problems with Poland started to solve. So Russia has to choose now if they give up with Estonia and only use words for some time and get economical deals with EU or they start bigger economical war with Estonia and will not get EU deals because Estonia also has a veto rigth in EU.
Memory? What sort of memory? This sort of memory? http://www.hot.ee/liitlased/
or this sort … https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/winter99-00/art6.html
or this sort …. http://www.hot.ee/evlliit/okup_2.htm#The%20world%E2%80%99s
or perhaps this sort … http://epl.ekspress.ee/pic.php?suurus=s&file=164641
Oh, come on! It was one of the main topics for last parliament elections in March. And all the talking was about MOVING, not DESTORYING. Mr Ansip's party was pro moving the statue and they won the elections. Second biggest winner party was against moving and now they sing as crazy birds: "LOOK, WE TOLD YOU!"
Still if you don't believe:
Prime minister tells in russian-language Radio4 that digging will start in near days, they will last from 2 weeks to 4 months. Cite: "Only after all remains are identified and transported to cemetery, bronze soldier will follow them".
Government security commitee consisting of 5 ministers gathered and discussed final plans about identifying buried persons and moving them and a statue to the new place.
New defence minister says that start of process of digging graves and moving of statue can start as fast already as in May. Cite: "Current government's clear decision is to move this statue to the new location and I think that government will not change this decision.".
Stop your lie and Nazi propaganda! Fascism in Europe must be stopped!
To all people on the Earth, read this:
Making business with Estonia you support and finance Nazis.
You should understand, that making business with Estonia or buying anything produced in Estonia or visiting Estonia as a tourist, you actually support and finance a new generation of European Nazis. Please, spend a couple of minutes to read the letter to the end, because your voice of a free human is very important in preventing the revival of Fascism in the Europe.
Estonia, which has recently joined to EU and NATO, officially practices Apartheid policies and does its best to rehabilitate and legalize Fascism, for years. EU, US and other democracies preferred not to pay attention on that till now. However, it doesn't cancel the fact that Estonia carries out a policy of Ethnic Discrimination against ethnic Russians, who constitute a third part of its population. Most of these people were born in this country or live here for 30-40 years, but they were not even provided citizenship and are treated as second class people. Moreover, Estonia officially glorifies legionaries of Hitler's SS troops that exterminated Jews in Fascist death camps in Estonia during the Holocaust. Government sets up monuments to these Fascist butchers. They are allowed to march in the downtown of the capital, Tallinn. They are invited to official events; the Estonian President shakes their bloody hands, and calls them heroes of Estonia.
At the same time, Estonian government aggressively fights with any memories of millions of the Soviet soldiers, who paid with their lives to free Europe from the plague of the Fascism and to save dozens millions of Europeans of the death. And democratic countries – first of all EU and US, prefer to dissemble this again. But recently Estonian regime overstepped the limits, which makes it absolutely illegal from the point of view of common human values. On April 26, Estonian authorities have decided to finally erase the memory of the victory of Russian soldiers over the Hitler's Nazism by destroying the main World War II memorial to a Soviet warrior-rescuer, Bronze Soldier. For those Russians who live in Estonia, demolition of the memorial is not just a removal of some architectonic construction. This is the most painful insult of the memories of their fathers and grandfathers, who died in battle with the Fascism to bring freedom to the Europe.
Thousands of offended Estonian Russians came to a peaceful protest demonstration, demanding from Estonian officials to stop the vandalism. But instead dialogue Estonian authorities sent special police forces to suppress the protest. With no reason they started to fire in the protesters rubber bullets, water cannon and tear-gas, throw flash-bang grenades, and baton women and teenagers. During the massacre the first ethnic Russian was killed, dozens were injured and hundreds were arrested just because of their Russian ethnicity. Those arrested were thrown into in a harbor warehouse as they were livestock, and there they were beat by police within an inch of their life. Just think – in the heart of the Europe an Apartheid regime kills, injures and arrests hundreds people just because of their ethnicity! However, almost all of the European and American media keep hypocritical silence or even worse call this "pacifying gangs of drung vandals".
This is disgrace! This is shame not only on those European and US governments that support this Nazi state. This is shame on every European and American who keeps silence today. Keeps silence, because somewhere inside he or she is confident that rehabilitation of Fascism, and Apartheid crimes committed against those "dirty Russian" at the heart of the European Union, provide "useful lesson" to Russians and Russia. But maybe you think that this is not your business? Then let me remind you a famous phrase by German priest Martin Niemoller he said about Nazis in 1945: "First they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew…. Then they came for me and by that time there was no one left who can speak up for me". Today, new European Nazis came for the Russians, and the Europeans keep silence or, better to say, silently approve. Well, you can be sure – this is just the beginning, and some day yours home-grown Nazis, inspired by your silence of the crimes of the Estonian Fascism, will come for you. And there will be no one to speak up for you. Because Russians, once rescued the Europe from the Fascism, will never pay again with millions of their lives for those not speaking up today.
So what can you do? Not too much. But quite enough to stop Nazis. At least don't finance them. Don't buy anything produced from Estonia. Don't do any kind of business with Estonian companies and organizations. Don't invest in Estonian stocks. Don't fly to Estonia as a tourist. What else? Maybe, to ask your representative in the House of Representatives, why your government spends your taxes to support Estonian Nazis? Or to forward this letter to your local newspaper and ask them, why they never write about Apartheid in Estonia? Or to call to Estonian embassy in your country, and ask them what is that they think they are doing? Or at least forward this letter to a few friends and colleagues? Your voice CAN prevent revival of Nazism, if you want it.
I totally agree with you Sarah. Its time to stop this madness!!
I guess that Russia could surrender but who would they surrender too? Nobody wants them.
I'm really sorry but I just checked some actual facts and the timeline of the first day of action at http://www.postimees.ee/260407/esileht/siseuudised/257288.php
Everything started at 4.00am and nobody was arrested until 19:45 although there were about thousand persons, most of them schoolchildren, who had screamed already for hours. Arrestments started when about 20 persons started fighting with police. Why the hell Estonian "nazi" police let people scream for 16 hours at the actual place without taking any action?:) They should have used Kalaznikovs, but no real bullets were used, only a boring water cannon. Really boring show for a wannabe "nazi" country, wasnt it?
There don't seem to be very many people who are willing to swallow your bollocks about a Nazi state. There are a few of those lunatics anywhere you go. They even march proudly through the streets of Moscow from time to time. That is all quite irrelevant to the events in Tallin. The real mystery here is how you could expect the world at large to sympathize with the Russian position after the hysterical overreactions. I'm talking about the boycotts, blockading embassy, etc. It is really shameful behaviour on the part of Russian people, both in Russia and in Estonia.
Russian or Moscow government is doing the same thing to monument near to Sheremetevo Airport, moving it for reasons of convenience. Why are there no violent protests in Ximki?
Bert, you are wrong. Estonian officials started to say that the monument was supposed to be "moved", not "destroyed" not before than on Saturday. Many Russian people think that it was the result of the protest actions, because the were not so politcorrect before.
About that "dog was woken" — that is also not true. That is a long and very painful problem, but western press used to close eyes and ears about it. Estonia leads a very unwise politics with Russian minority. They prefer insult, cast away more than one quarter of its population, call them occupants, tell them in official press to drive away from the country. The soldier was just the last drop. Russian mentality is such that it has a very long temper (you may see it from situation in Russia, no one almost is protesting though the life is not so sweet), but when it reaches some critical limit, their behavour becomes unpredictable, like in Estonia now.
estonian goverment never said anything about "destroying", russian media did.
as addtion to delfi links
Apr 20, 2007
"The previous defense minister, Jurgen Ligi, decided shortly before leaving office to start excavations at Tonismagi to remove the remains of Red Army soldiers believed to be buried there to a more suitable place as recommended by the War Graves Commission, a body set up at the Defense Ministry. He said the works to dig out war graves and identify the remains would start in April."
and a interesting article today in 'wall street journal'
…The Estonian government transferred the bronze statue of a Red Army soldier and exhumed remains of Soviet troops to a military cemetery near the capital. Estonians are generous to keep them at all. The Soviets annexed their country in 1940 and only let go 51 years later. France doesn't have a memorial to the Nazi occupation.
Since its liberation, no former Soviet republic has managed to irritate the bear as much as this plucky Baltic mouse of 1.3 million people — including 300,000 Russians — famous for its ultramodern economy. Moscow has for years accused Estonia and Latvia of violating ethnic Russians' rights. These countries insist, not unreasonably, that Russians learn a few words of their language to gain citizenship.
The memorial fracas gave Cold War nostalgics in Moscow an excuse to strike fresh. The upper house of Russia's parliament called on President Vladimir Putin to break off diplomatic ties, and the Kremlin warned of "serious consequences." Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, a man unafraid of irony, said Estonia "was a country where human rights are not respected." Some of the 1,000 rioters arrested arrived only in recent days from Russia. Tallinn was calmer yesterday, but other towns saw looting and clashes with police.
In spite of such scenes, many Baltic Russians are none too displeased that the Cold War ended and left them stranded in what became prosperous and free societies that have recently joined the EU. Their ethnic kin to the east aren't so lucky. And the majority of Latvian and Estonian Russians have gotten their citizenship.
As the rioting shows, the Kremlin can still stir the Baltic pot. Fortunately, as a NATO member, little Estonia doesn't fear for its life, circa 1940.
Yeah so. They bare an independent country. Not part of the Soviet Union so they can do what they want. The war can be sacred for you but maybe it isn't for them. You write that Russian women were raped: How about Estonian women by Russian soldiers. How about the plundering by Russian soldiers?
Ooh I like people who see theyr own mistakes in others. Same as videos here have senes cut out where, russians loot shops and throw huge rocks at policeman, you forget to tell us about woman and children murdered, raped and sent to consentration camps in Siberia by russians. Overall over 20 million people were murdered at Stalins regime (thats 4 times more, than jewes where murdered). And ironicly, many of them where russians.
It might have been a holy war for you as same as it where holy war for Osama at 9/11. I bet, in his mind, he was libarating America too as russians claim they did with eastern europe.
But when Russia is good in something, it is propaganda. And mostly who get BSd are russians themself. There is no free press in Russia, as they are still teaching history by old Soviet Union proganada books. For you who want to open your eyes there is one of 38,000 a articles about your "holy war" and "liberation":
It must be possible to deal with national minorities in such a way that you don't provoke them and make them feel a part of your society. If you live all together there must be ways for a compromise. Otherwise it may become very difficult. It may even lead to terrorism in critical situations, as history shows.
ey I don't get your talks about the size of a nation..
What has it got to do with letting foreingers vote or not, even if they're next to big countries…we have airplanes now…the world is a neigbour of each other these days.
I live in Holland, and here we have a law that if you've lived for 5 years here you can get Dutch citizenship…what gives you the right to vote…
Besides that Holland is much smaller than Estonia…and also is next to big countrys like Germany and France. So what?!
well that's the way the dutch want and they're free to decide
estonians have their own state and decide themselves
simple, case closed
Do you agree, that in the future, the thousands and thousands of muslims in Spain, be influent in the government,asking latter to have their ownn party? Would you like that sharia could be a reality? Maybe you say that is impossible, but you know there is no more impossible things to hapen!
Only the natives could be alllowed to vote in the own country!
"foreigners and tourists" What are you talking about? Russians is about one third of estonian population. And most of them are living in Estonia for more than 50 years. Only this fact is enough to make them citizens and give them right to vote. I remind you that everybody who lived on the territory of former Soviet Russia in 1991 became the citizen of Russian Federation. This is a normal practice.
what would you expect the police to do – put those arrested in a spa?
Oh sorry,
unfortunately there were not enough sofas and ice-cream with cherries available for everyone.
Try not breaking the law next time, and stay home, if you want to sit on a sofa…
Just for comparison, here's a link to a video in Russian prison I'm sure the prisoners would've treated better there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOdqiV0ljxI
Go to http://www.youtube.com
or to rutube (Russian own video site): http://rutube.ru/search.html?search=%EF%ED%EF%EE&x=11&y=7
And you get a horrifying list of videos how OMON, Russian special force treats demonstrations and just random people in Russia…
I think it was best said that if you want to break up a Russian riot, just offer free alcohol on the other side of town.
Nazism in Estonia is glorified!
You should be more concerned about alcoholism, unemployment, a weak economy, an evil dictator, and closed mindedness that exists in present day Russia.
Of course you're not. How about that article in NY Times: select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50C17FF3C5A0C718EDDAD0894DF404482 (which, unfortunately, isn't for free now), telling a story that 50% of the news on one of the main Russian radio networks must be positive whatever befell on the country that day? Or is it NYT brainwashing me? Hell, you know I believe them.
Boris must be employed by the Russian government. There is no way anyone could be so ignorant.
Again, just an empty comment just worthy of a Redneck.
Ok Teas1, can you explain "why" I migh be ignorant?
Or is making meaningless statements as far as your redneck intellect can stretch??
Sometimes I make meaningless statements just to match the stuff you post. Did you see the link that LT_United posted? Even you must believe the New York Times over the media in Russia.
Here it is the proof that National Socialism is alive and thriving in Russia.
You must really like that article. One link is enough.
texas1/troublemaker/etc, You should be more concerned about alcoholism, unemployment, a weak economy, an evil dictator, and closed mindedness that exists in present day United States.
Sad but true…. 🙁
Yea, Stalin had 100% and Brezhnev had 99,98%. Yeah, the percentage says it all. Of course you're not brainwashed, darling.
the point is – while russians see russian rule as "liberation" while estonians view it as occupation (as do latvians, lithuanians, polish people, slovaks, rumenians, czhecks etc etc).
but sad thing is that win in second world war is the only positive thing in history that russians have. that is why we see this kind of reactions.
photoshopped picture here some days ago is just a shameless lie.
your small brain simply cant get the point behind russian ww2. It was greatest national tragedy, your swedish ass never cant get or compare.
Do you know about Genghis Khan and his grandson Batyj? They occupied Russia and Russia was a kind of shield between Asia and Western world, without Russia Europe probably would be also occupied and it is unclear what kind of civilization it would be. Further: Ottoman Empire and Turkish. Russia was liberating Bulgaria, Serbia and Western Ukraine from them, it was also a kind of shield between East and West. Then it was Napoleon. In western history it is said that cold winter was the only reason why Napoleon had to leave Russia, but it was also the anger of village people on the occupied territories that collected in small groups and were attacking his army in the forests with a lot of cruelty that weaken his army very much.
One thing they don`t teach you in your communist schools, hell, even in our russian schools, is that the mongols did invade europe, unlike your "sources" say, and they failed, but they did make an tunnel into Europe for russians to walk in for about 10 years.
You are just jealous because you live in Russia. 🙂
how it is possible, that anybody want to live in such worthless country like estonia or poland?
It seems, you're insulting yourself here. Like a mad dog trying to bite its own tail. Cmon, spin, spin.
Oh you're spinning so hard, I even smell smoke here. Regarding my rusty brain – I don't even try to compare mine to yours as well as my nuclear balls to 'michael's. You've said so many clever things here while eating your tail. You're really entertaining 😀
Just like Euro-trash, they always go back to swearing whenever they find that their cause is doomed.
You better be cared about democracy in Estonia. And if you fail here, Russian army will have to take care of it.
Your pathetic little Russian army wouldn't dare. It would send you back into isolationism and to the cold war so fast that you wouldn't know what had hit you.
Estonia will get what it deserves soon.
Hmmm….. I'm just wondering if this blatant abuse on Human Rights, will even feature on the last page of an average western newspaper? Lets see…., probably not. Hmm, I wonder why??
AFTER ALL, – Kasparov rally and the "POLICE BRUTALITY" that left people covered in ketchup (not blood) was very well documented in the western media. With headlines like:" Putin Cracks Down on Opposition Again", Russia uses brutal force to crackdown on opposition", etc, etc.
So why do you think this "littlie" incident will not appear in the western press? After all, western press never creates anti-Russian propaganda, or does it? I will live this question with you, my western friends. Maybe then, you will think twice before basing your judgements on what you read in the western press, espetially Baltic..
Here is my previous comment that would be quite relevant in this case:
"Western media doesn't tell lies. But it takes factual parts from the story that only supports their opinions, instead of telling the whole truth".
Make your own mind whether western media is producing propaganda, or not. I already made mine!
Good day 🙂
The other day, Putin got on his knees and begged the US to let Russia join our project to visit the mood. The US said NO!!!! REJECTED!!! NADA!! Won't Happen! We don't need your brain washed, propaganda in space. Come back when you grow up.
how do i visit the mood?
Woops! I was on my UMPC and they aren't always the easiest. I meant moon.
Woops is right texas1/troublemaker/Finnish-hetro-milk drinker-kkk/ etc.etc.
Where did you read that? The Weakly Standard or the National Repuke?
I guess you missed the part where the U.S. pays Russia extraordinary amounts of money to fly them into space over the next 10-15 years? Cause, you know, your technology is so superior to ours.
Making business with Estonia you support and finance Nazis.
You should understand, that making business with Estonia or buying anything produced in Estonia or visiting Estonia as a tourist, you actually support and finance a new generation of European Nazis. Please, spend a couple of minutes to read the letter to the end, because your voice of a free human is very important in preventing the revival of Fascism in the Europe.
Estonia, which has recently joined to EU and NATO, officially practices Apartheid policies and does its best to rehabilitate and legalize Fascism, for years. EU, US and other democracies preferred not to pay attention on that till now. However, it doesn't cancel the fact that Estonia carries out a policy of Ethnic Discrimination against ethnic Russians, who constitute a third part of its population. Most of these people were born in this country or live here for 30-40 years, but they were not even provided citizenship and are treated as second class people. Moreover, Estonia officially glorifies legionaries of Hitler's SS troops that exterminated Jews in Fascist death camps in Estonia during the Holocaust. Government sets up monuments to these Fascist butchers. They are allowed to march in the downtown of the capital, Tallinn. They are invited to official events; the Estonian President shakes their bloody hands, and calls them heroes of Estonia.
At the same time, Estonian government aggressively fights with any memories of millions of the Soviet soldiers, who paid with their lives to free Europe from the plague of the Fascism and to save dozens millions of Europeans of the death. And democratic countries – first of all EU and US, prefer to dissemble this again. But recently Estonian regime overstepped the limits, which makes it absolutely illegal from the point of view of common human values. On April 26, Estonian authorities have decided to finally erase the memory of the victory of Russian soldiers over the Hitler's Nazism by destroying the main World War II memorial to a Soviet warrior-rescuer, Bronze Soldier. For those Russians who live in Estonia, demolition of the memorial is not just a removal of some architectonic construction. This is the most painful insult of the memories of their fathers and grandfathers, who died in battle with the Fascism to bring freedom to the Europe.
Thousands of offended Estonian Russians came to a peaceful protest demonstration, demanding from Estonian officials to stop the vandalism. But instead dialogue Estonian authorities sent special police forces to suppress the protest. With no reason they started to fire in the protesters rubber bullets, water cannon and tear-gas, throw flash-bang grenades, and baton women and teenagers. During the massacre the first ethnic Russian was killed, dozens were injured and hundreds were arrested just because of their Russian ethnicity. Those arrested were thrown into in a harbor warehouse as they were livestock, and there they were beat by police within an inch of their life. Just think – in the heart of the Europe an Apartheid regime kills, injures and arrests hundreds people just because of their ethnicity! However, almost all of the European and American media keep hypocritical silence or even worse call this "pacifying gangs of drung vandals".
This is disgrace! This is shame not only on those European and US governments that support this Nazi state. This is shame on every European and American who keeps silence today. Keeps silence, because somewhere inside he or she is confident that rehabilitation of Fascism, and Apartheid crimes committed against those "dirty Russian" at the heart of the European Union, provide "useful lesson" to Russians and Russia. But maybe you think that this is not your business? Then let me remind you a famous phrase by German priest Martin Niemoller he said about Nazis in 1945: "First they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew…. Then they came for me and by that time there was no one left who can speak up for me". Today, new European Nazis came for the Russians, and the Europeans keep silence or, better to say, silently approve. Well, you can be sure – this is just the beginning, and some day yours home-grown Nazis, inspired by your silence of the crimes of the Estonian Fascism, will come for you. And there will be no one to speak up for you. Because Russians, once rescued the Europe from the Fascism, will never pay again with millions of their lives for those not speaking up today.
So what can you do? Not too much. But quite enough to stop Nazis. At least don't finance them. Don't buy anything produced from Estonia. Don't do any kind of business with Estonian companies and organizations. Don't invest in Estonian stocks. Don't fly to Estonia as a tourist. What else? Maybe, to ask your representative in the House of Representatives, why your government spends your taxes to support Estonian Nazis? Or to forward this letter to your local newspaper and ask them, why they never write about Apartheid in Estonia? Or to call to Estonian embassy in your country, and ask them what is that they think they are doing? Or at least forward this letter to a few friends and colleagues? Your voice CAN prevent revival of Nazism, if you want it.
What amazing example of brotherhood of European "democracy" and Estonian nazism. Are you so afraid of Russia that the only thing that makes you feel strong is encouraging Estonian Nazis to kill their Russians? Don't have enough courage to confront directly with Moswcow? Show them a couple of Tridents in their waters? Mmm? Too tiny balls?
Honey-bunny – you have now your own state only because Russians have decided to present it to you with no obligations. If Lithuania or Estonia or Latvia would fight for their freedom with Russia, instead of getting it as a gift from those "Russian butchers", you wouldn't speak here now. Because there would be no one lithuanian or estonian today. Alpha, tanks, snipers…. Heh. I can imaging how your pants would smell if you'd see a single Russian tank, you "Ulster fighter". 😉
I am sorry for your face now in the ass… Such a waste… 😉
The statue is up again in a cemetary – come and gloryfy it if you wish and if you are capable of remaining civilized and peaceful! I think I might even take a flower to the bronze soldier one day now that he is where he belongs, because the poor guy just did his duty and it wasn't really his fault that the Soviet Union turned out to be no good and that the young good-for-nothing hooligans destroyed the streets and windows in his name. And you know, the news showed one elderly Russian lady in the cemetary today who said that it's all OK now and let's please live in peace! It was very heart-warming to hear – this is the kind of person I would be ready to compromize with at any time!
I watched Russian news today – strangely the news didn't show any of those hooligans who smashed windows, broke into the shops and stole goods. They just kept on showing a couple of bloody faces, some moments of policemen capturing the rioters, the same scenes over and over again. They also showed the mother of the man killed. Her lack of knowledge and interest was unbelievable! She said that maybe her son was run over by a bulldozer or something or other – my god!!! His own friends stabbed him and his mother doesn't even know or care! It's absolutely ridiculous that Estonia is blamed for the death of this man!
Oh and by the way, people who do not have Estonian citizenship but live here ARE allowed to vote in local elections.
An average Estonian caring for her motherland and all the good people in it.
Well, maybe you then tell us, why today thousands of autos were beeping all the day in Tallin? All the drivers were "young gangsters" too? They beeped not because of the Bronze Soldier today. The did this because Russians in Estonia decided that they don't want to bear with the Apartheid and Nazi policy from now. You can be sure, that the riot will only grow and there will be a real Russian revolution on May 9 in Estonia.
oh I wish such revolutionaries would be deported to the moon already
We've heard this idea for a thousand time from Nazis like you: "Trunk – train – Mowscow!", no matter if you were born there. So where do you suggest to deport Irish who ain't agree with Queen&Co. To the moon? Don't you see that this is a pure Apartheid, you tiny Nazi?
Have you thought for just one second that maybe Irish guys fight already for more than 100 years because they don't want to part of UNITED Kingdom. Irish are a separate nation with their own language and culture and they want to have the whole Ireland an independent country without those ignorant world-conquerors without self-esteem.
Can you tell me one reason why Northern Ireland must belong to UK? Except for Russian-style "we have owned it, we are bigger, so we RULE them big time no matter what they say or want!"
UK has quite a lot of problems with striking unhappy workers on it's own island, they should deal with these problems. It's 2007, not 1670s when bigger was better and economy was measured in a number of slaves in conquered countries. Come on, grow up.
Russians were fighting for their Empire for more than one thousand years and did not stop till now, unlike you, who only can poop for your never exsitant "freedom". All of us, not depending were we live, have freedom fighter's DNA and blood, which cannot be changed by any political decisions. So when Russians are being applied Nazi policy in any ex-Russian state, these "alliens" will conquer this country after all and return it to Russia. Are you sure you want it? Or you, with your 18 year history, just cannot imagine that unlike you Russians find their ideas, goals, and behaviour patterns in their 1000+ year history of 100+ wars with 50+ nations, many of which ain't exist already?
well technically it's more like 400 or 500 years, read the history books about moscow…
and you still haven't learnt anything from those wars, *sigh*
Hi, I'm from Northern Ireland and just wanted to correct you on this one. Northern Ireland is free to leave the UK and join the Republic of Ireland at any time it wants; its Government just needs to call a referendum. In the last referendum held in Northern Ireland, 98% of the population wanted to maintain the status quo and stay within in the UK.
I'm aware that I'm outsider looking in and I freely confess that I lack the cultural knowledge to fully understand this issue. However, I have visited Estonia three times in the past five years and could see the tension between the Russians and the Estonians. In coffee shops, the Russians would refuse to speak Estonian and the Estonian staff would refuse to serve them in Russian! I saw this thing happen many times and it was a treatment reserved for the Russians because they'd happily serve me in English. The Russians in Estonia–and forgive me for the generalisation–did strike me as somewhat belligerence.
Although there are certain bits of Estonia I don't like (Tallinn has turned into a giant brothel for AWFUL British drunks), there are many things I loved about Estonia: every person I met in Estonia was so friendly and warm. This, sadly, hasn't been my experience in of Russians in Russian cities.
To me, this is not about a statue but an assertion of Estonian independence over Russian influence. The Russian reaction is the sign of a country learning a painful lesson: that it has lost its empire and is losing influence.
It's a painful and difficult lesson: the British lost their empire 50 years ago and we still haven't learned the lesson!
говорят что основные гуляния по этому случаю намечены на 9-ое Мая
You should feel lucky, that Russians DON'T live in USSR already. Otherwise there would be no such Nazi state as Estonia in 45 minutes. And those supporting Estonian Nazis in other EU countries as well.
…USSR failed in every aspect you can think of, so I`m not busting my balls, sorry.
History is a funny thing. You think that it just ended, but it suddenly returns. Who thought in 1932 that Germany will play its role in European history once again and so soon? Nobody. Think about lessons that history gives, and try not to make angry those, who have a serious chance to return. Otherwise their return won't make you happy.
Don't worry, Pal. Russia will soon rise from the ashes and it will be even more powerful than USSR ever was. It will kick everybody's asses for sure! 😀
oh yes, and I am a tooth fairy 🙂
I think he was laughing when he said that.
Thousand of automobiles? Hundred, maybe, propably even less.
Those poor, oppressed russians with their chromed 4×4`s, BMW`s with custom made tires, etc. Doesn`t it just make you angry to see in what "poverty" they have to live.
You and your propaganda.
By 'Russian province' you mean Moscow's suburbia? Or those few towns of Abramovich, right?
By "province" I mean cities like Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Krasnodar, Rostov, Tomsk, Ekaterinburg, etc. Those, which are 1000-3000 miles from Moscow and never seen Abromovich.
Oh you're right – Abramovich is to the East. In the middle are those… Oh I forgot their names, those who dig into the ground for aluminum, copper, etc. How do you call them – oligarchs? Yes, their manors are well supervised. I heard they even take their dogs for a walk to taiga on helicopters. Very high living standards indeed. Sorry for my ignorance.
LOL! Why can't these brain washed Russians just accept the truth?
"can't sleep", sure 😉
Is it you, Michael, my friend? My English isn't good but yours is getting worse with every post. What are you drinking? 😉 I have a glass of wine. Georgian one. Not so bad, you know 😉
Slip of tongue… fingers. Here, in Siberia it's time to go sleep. Without any lithuanian dreams of oligarh's money. 😉
Ok, let's talk about real numbers here, not some BS. Can you tell us some actual numbers that taxi drivers, programmers, super market girls and accountants get? In US dollars, please. I can tell you then numbers in Estonia and LT_United share some Lithuanian numbers with us.
The funny thing is that the Estonians opened up a can of woop-ass on you Russians…AGAIN!! Ha Ha 🙂
Btw, Estonian police arrested and interned in a harbor warehouse about 600 people. There's about 1.3 million inhabitants in Estonia. In Russia there's about 144 million. So 600 arrested in Estonia would be about 70,000 in Russia if something like this were happened. Can anybody tell me, how all European and US leaders, journalists and human right defenders would squeal about "totalitarism, fascism and mass repressions" in Russia? So why I don't hear a single even whispering about aparteid in Estonia? 😉
Are you surprised?? Keeping in mind that western media is controled by the "government friendly individuals",did you expect them to be objective and unbiast??
PS: by government, I don't mean one ruling party, I meant all influential parties. Because, as most of us know, there is no real opposition in most western countries.,
A great example of this is, I'm sad to say, – UK..
In western countries the media is owned by the public (stockholders). In Russia, the media is controlled by Putin's goons.
The stockholders don't control US media content, the corporate board of directors do.
Its not "stockholders" – its "stakeholders" lol. But I think you actually meant "shareholders".
Incidentally, do even know how much of the midia in % is controled by the Kremlin??
Actually, I meant stockholders and I encourage you to develop your english vocabulary. You can begin by learning the definition of a stockholder at the following site.
You see, if you knew the definition of a stockholder, you would know that a stockholder is a stakeholder and a shareholder. Any questions?
For example, Texas1, you can review the documents that explain the Pepsi corporations involvment with the overthrow of Salvadore Allende on the CIA's own website. Pepsi is a publicy held corporation, but do you think their shareholders got to vote on whether or not to supply the CIA with hundreds of thousands of dollars in an effort to topple a democracy for the sake of profits?
Texas1 is a Texan simpleton, he doesn't have a clue!
All he can do, is shout out random statements that do not have any value what so ever..
Such as this one: "The funny thing is that the Estonians opened up a can of woop-ass on you Russians…AGAIN!! Ha Ha"
I know, its pathetic..
You, Abramov, probably don't have a clue who Allende was, what era is meant, and what's the significance of him. You are the pathetic simpleton, I'm afraid.
Yes and, as I recall, the media outlets that reported on the United States's involvement in overthrowing and murdering Allende were derided as communist sympathizers. Now the story is regarded as the truth, history. Unfortunately this policy continues to this day.
You Russians can hold a grudge. Lets see, you blame the Estonians for something that happened 70 years ago and you blame the US for something that happened 50 years ago! Get a life!! Anyway, even back then Pepsi was a multinational corporation.
Ok, I'll play along. As you know, Russia has a long history of authoritarian rule and human rights abuses. Nikolai Berdyayev went so far as to connect the depth and longevity of Russian communism, a system inimical to human rights, to this persistent culture of despotism (1960).
So lets jump to 1917, 30 years prior to the events that you use to blame today's Estonians for acts of Nazism.
Following the abdication of Nicholas II in March 1917, the Provisional Government of March – November 1917 produced what the Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin himself called the freest country in Europe, before he and his minority party of Bolsheviks forcibly ended that freedom by sharply curbing human rights.
The Bolsheviks socially cleansed Russia's reformed courts, democratic professionals, and growing autonomous civil society. They held Russia to the constitutional principles that rights must serve the cause of socialism as interpreted by the Communist Party. Vladimir Lenin's death in 1924 opened the way to the consolidation of total power by Josef Stalin, his forced collectivization of the peasants, his five-year plans for heavy industrialization, and his purges of alleged enemies of the people.
The cultural thaw after Stalin's death in March 1953 ended with the ousting of Party leader Nikita Khrushchev in 1964. Ensuing trials of social satirists and critics sparked a courageous dissident movement in Russia, Ukraine, and elsewhere. Its members, who were promptly imprisoned or exiled, included Andrei Sakharov, proponent of East-West convergence; Yuri Orlov and the Moscow Helsinki Group; and Alexander Solzhenitsyn, chronicler of Soviet labor camps.
Mikhail Gorbachev, Soviet leader from March 1985 to December 1991, introduced glasnost – openness or free expression – and soon after, perestroika – attempts at economic and political reform. Gorbachev freed political prisoners and exiles between 1986 and 1989. His UN speech of December 7, 1988, praised the once spurned Universal Declaration of Human Rights and revised the 1977 Constitution accordingly. But he reformed too little too late. Four months after his near-overthrow in the August 1991 coup by his own reactionary appointees, the Soviet Union split into three onceagain independent Baltic republics and twelve newly independent states, including the Russian Federation.
Boris Yeltsin, Russian president from 1991 until his resignation in 1999, forced on Russia the 1993 Constitution increasing presidential power but also containing Article 2: "The individual and his rights and freedom are the highest value. The recognition, observance and defense of the human rights and freedoms of the individual and the citizen are the obligation of the state." The Constitution proclaims a broad range of civil, political, social, and economic rights. Contrasting realities under overbearing and corrupt state administrations infringed on freedom of expression, religion, fair and humane justice, freedom of movement, and freedom from racial, ethnic, and homophobic bigotry, and hate crimes. Moreover, during the wars to retain Chechnya just about every human right was violated. Inequality, poverty, and homelessness haunted the land while the new rich lived high. Women experienced inequality and exploitation in employment, widespread divorce, abandonment, and domestic violence, and trafficking into prostitution. Life expectancy fell to third-world levels, especially among men, owing to stress, accidents, alcoholism, and the pervasive inadequacy of health care (Juviler, 2000; Human Rights Watch).
Such political and social human rights violations prompted the formation of numerous free but under-funded human rights advocacy groups – nongovernmental organizations. They ranged from Russian Soldiers' Mothers, who were against the wide abuses of military recruits, to the anti-Stalinist and pro-rights Memorial Society, to Muslim cultural and aid societies.
Seventy years of Communist social and legal cleansing are not overcome in a decade or two. In Ken Jowitt's words, "We must think of a 'long march' rather than a simple transition to democracy" (Jowitt, 1992, 189), with all sorts of human rights to redeem.
Oh and now Putin!
You are everywhere, where you could mention Putin!
You are the cockteil very complicated plus your complex named PUTIN. I can say GREAT PUTIN that one miserable from US wants to have matreshka with his face. You will not miss him at night-time/ Matreshka-100$,delivery-50$
'And one day we will defend democracy in Estonia' – oh thank you, thank you. This one gave a good laugh 😀 You saved a day for me 😀
what do the russians know about democracy and european values as russia never really was in europe (except for a short period between 1939 and 1991, hehe), and the first time they encountered democracy was in 1991?
too bad they still don't know what to do with it, probably that's why authoritarian regimes are so popular there
The more comments I read the clearer it becomes. Russia has its own view of history, its own twisted understanding of democracy, which is the only right version, because Russia just says so. It's a big country and somehow better than others, so nobody should argue! If some countries dare to disagree, Russia will make them agree. It is very painful to understand and its unbelievably unfair! I sincerely hope that Europeans and many Russians themselves will not support this kind of inconsiderate way of thinking.
So that you know – I am proud of being an Estonian. I am proud that I have good Russian friends even after recent events. I am proud that there is still some common sense left here in Estonia. Whatever the vandals may
try to organize on the 9th of May, I have complete faith in the police force. I will stay at home and let the police handle the situation. After all, that's what the police is here for – to bring hooligans to justice.And above all ,I give all my support to the government that was brave enough to put its foot down.
I am very thankful to all these people who understand us and give us their moral support. Russia has absolutely no right to tell us what to do in our own country as long as we do it within international laws without violating human rights. All the angry people brainwashed by Russian propaganda and their big words
cannot scare me. I live in a free country in free Europe, after all.
I completely agree. From the comments here it seems that Russia calls the Baltic states fascist just because we dare to have another version of history (by the way, our version is against real fascist, just as the yours). If Europe supports us in any question, it's just "afraid of the USA" and the main goal of the USA seems to be weakening Russia. As for you, the only "right" point of view is what you get from the Russian media (that is almost completely state-controlled and has a good experience of propaganda from the Soviet time). As for the Russian free journalism, how is the investigation of the murder of Anna Politkovskaja? By the way, Russia ranks 3. in the world in the number of killed journalists, number 1 was Iraq.
so, for all the Russians reading this: just think about what I said now. And try to be a bit more critical towards your official sources. It will make more sense that way, believe me.
A germain would name you "Dummkopf". You talk to us in English at a Britain blog, were people from all the countries talk. What Russian official sources and state-controlled journalists are you talking about? This blog and yourself? Think a bit, before you tell a complete nonsense. I read WSJ, NYT, WashPost, Times, CNN, Reuters every day, like you. And I don't need any propaganda to see how lie there is being combined with half-truth.
Here is an example of how Russia engages in thought control.
Police in St. Petersburg confiscated 52,000 copies of the newspaper "March of Dissent," kasparov.ru reported on April 29. The website quoted Olga Kurnosova, head of the St. Petersburg branch of the United Civic Front, the opposition group headed by former chess champion Garry Kasparov, as saying that the newspapers were seized without a court order. The newspapers, which were supposed to have been distributed in Moscow and neighboring regions, were devoted to the opposition marches held in Moscow and St. Petersburg on April 14-15, during which police detained several hundred protesters (see "RFE/RL Newsline," April 16, 2007). JB
Are you a "newspaper rights defender"? Those 52K of newspapers are equal to 52K people? Don't you feel that you rave aloud? Tallin – Moscow, people fighting for their rights – newspapers calling for putsch. Don't see any difference, at all?
tn is 100% correct.
There were 2000 protesters in Tallin, with its 400K population. For 15M Moscow corresponding numbers would be 300,000. Can you imagine that anybody in the World could name such a great protest of 300,000 people in Moscow "vandalism of a drunk youngsters gang"? Me not. The only word that clearly describes such a massive protest – "revolution". So, my darling, you've got a Russian revolution in Estonia. And don't try to assure naive Britains, that the only cause of this revoluion is that some teens were drunk.
Of course not. It was instigated and encouraged by the Kremlin.
Well, sort of. Instigator in Tallin was probably the "Night Patrol" bunch, but surely the Kremlin has encouraged the hysterical reactions back in Russia.
The comments made by the Estonians are much smarter than those made by the Russians.
I utterly agree – composed and argumentative, trying to enlighten those in the dark. alas! in vain …
Quote: "It is intelligence that differentiates Estonians from Russians" – come on you can not say you are civilised or especially "intelligent" after a comment like this!!! lol
I don't know about Estonia, but in a civilised country like UK, this would be considered as "far right nazi talk" Typical of the BNP…
I rest my case..
Please, don't forget to sweecth your brains though twice per year:at Chrismas night and at Victory day. And try not to look at mirror-you will see there hoof instead of face, and wash hands and clean teeth,daer picman
think logically! Estonia is NOT glorifying Nazis. Taking a military grave monument to a military graveyard doesn't make anybody Nazi. We hate the Nazis, so does the official government. If you have EVER seen them saying something in favor of Nazis (Anti-Soviet statements don't count), send me the link, please. The link to the direct source, not the Kremlin interpretation. And if you can't prove what you say, try to admit you're probably wrong or mislead.
As for the events in Tallinn – first the site of the statue was covered by tent to secure the archeological excavations. The protesters gathered around it, sometimes provoking the police. When they became violent (in the evening they started to throw stones at the police and turned a car on its roof), the police tried to divide the protesters into smaller groups. Then the protesters moved away from the site and started to vandalize in the city. Your "peaceful demonstrants" broke the windows of many shops, stole clothes, alcohol etc., they also broke the windows of flats, bookstores, pharmacies, offices and even a church. It can't be called a peaceful protest, it was anarchy and probably not connected to the monument any more. http://tuvasta.politsei.ee/ are the pictures of what really happened. And the police used force against the robbers and vandals, NOT against peaceful demonstrants. And the monument was removed AFTER all this. The Russian media shows only what suits their "official" version.
Here is a proud story from Estonia on an Estonian site about monument to Estonian Waffen SS legionaries erected near Tallin. If here is a Jew at this blog, I want to remember you, that Estonian Waffen SS legionaries executed ALL Estonian Jews – a few thousands within the first year of WW2, which is officially confirmed by Holocaus organizations. And official Tallin is proud of these "brave sons of the nation". And EU is proud to have such a "democratic" state between its nations. Doesn't is makes you a bit upset? I would be upset if I were Jew and some "European" country would glorify butchers who exterminated my forefathers as livestock.
Here it is, sorry
I find this very sad. And I find it even more sad that people from US like Texas1, do not have clue about any of these atrocities, and yet, think they have the right to make comments on this issue.
I also hope, that people form Europe can see the western media hypocrisy that is presented to you everyday. For example, a few years ago when Putin started to crack down on the mafia (oligarchs) majority of whom happened to be Jewish, he was accused of being anti-semitic.
Can you believe it, Putin was accused of anti-Semitism! That is a person who has appointed first ever jewish prime minister, who's N.1 mentor and friend is Berl Lazar(chief rabbi of russia), who's greates defender is Gleb Pavlovsky and who has done more for Jewish people than Yeltzin ever did!!
Having Jewish background, I not onlly find this hypocrisy unexeptable, I find it unforgivable!!!
I wouldn't mix the Jews in it. Could you please give me a Jewish person actually living in Estonia who has issues like that with the government? Not easy to find, I think. Because unlike you, Michael, the Jewish people living here obviously understand history much better. Whatever the Estonians did to them in the past we feel sorry about and have apologized for. Several Estonians joined the German army because they saw it as the only realistic way to fight off the Soviets whose 'liberation' crimes they had already felt. And the monument you mentioned, erected to some Estonians fighting in the German army, was taken down very soon after that by Estonian government. The Republic of Estonia DOES NOT glorify the nazi crimes. It's just that we are convinced that the Soviet crimes against humanity were pretty much the same. So it's painful to see that while one side understood their mistakes long ago the other still seems to be proud of its crimes.
No my dear ignorant and uneducated estonian. In Estonia ther is no jews! Estonian people took care of them in ww2. Estonia was the first and the only country deserved title "Judenfrei". And after they lost the war, ther are trying to deal with the dead.
there is a Jewish community in Estonia, they're mostly Russian-speaking. They have their own Russian-speaking school in Tallinn, the Karu street, and there are plans to build a synagogue at the same place. They have declared that they have had no problems with discrimination here.
You country and its filthy government not onlly laughs at the holocaust, its domestic policy encourages another one!
Wake up Israel!
Do not forget our people!
Russians are so blind that it is pitiful.
well said; my and my brothers SVD's are ready a fully loaded; just say when; hehe;
What is an svd? Soviet Venereal Disease?
yep: it is highly contageous too;
а кто-нибудь сказал эстонцам, что война-то кончилась?
Yes, but it would make me laugh. So are you a girl or a guy?
She makes the sexy time with a goats.
do i smell kike?
You talk like fat Russian girl. You wear combat boots in shower?
Oh ok, you are funny. I like you.
HeHe! Russian men have a menstrual period!
Back to the USSR: Putin turns to thought control
Russia's media isn't as restricted as it was in the bad old days, but it's close, writes Andrew Kramer in Moscow.
Journalists employed by the network, Russian News Service, also said they were told by the new managers, who are allies of the Kremlin, that opposition leaders could not be mentioned on the air, and the US was to be portrayed as an enemy.
Well nothing rallies the public more than the threat of a great unseen enemy. Look at the US after 9/11, everyone was waving flags and screaming for blood and payback.
Read George Orwell's 1984 some time. He documented all the tricks that neo-fascist states use to keep the population aligned with its goals.
Unseen enemy? What are you talking about? Our enemy is Al Quada and no nation questions that. Stop reading your National Socialist rags that are written and produced by Adolph Putin at the Kremlin.
Al Qaeda is a phantom group and if we really wanted to stop them, we would have focused only on Afghanistan. Iraq was and is an unnecessary war. If you believe the Bush administration propaganda, you are a fool and you are in the minority according to the approval rating polls.
No, I don't believe the Bush administration. In the US we are not brainwashed and forced to believe our politicians. I know that is difficult for you National Socialists in Russia to digest.
You say you don't believe the Bush administration yet repeat their talking points at every opportunity.
INCORRECT! In fact, I have never even voted for a Republican.
I don't know who you voted for. I said that you repeat Bush administration talking points. Strange how these days fewer and fewer people will admit to being a Republican.
Strange in these times that Russians still don't have free media or direct elections of mayors. 🙁
Why do you even care? It has nothing to do with you or anyone you know. Stop screaming from the bleachers, It's not your problem. Worry about your own problems. I'm sure there are plenty of Texas blogs out there.
What is your job anyway? You seem to spend all your time on this forum.
This is his job.
What a nice democracy Russia has. Ha! It's more like evil National Socialism.
Back to the USSR: Putin turns to thought control
On this same topic. The little bit I have followed the russian state media the Tallinn riots and this bronze fellow has been the main topic over there. But atleast I haven´t heard nothing about the Khimki war memorial. I mean this same kind of statue which was not re-located, but destroyed in a city near Moscow to build a new supermarket. Has Russian media reported anything about this? I think not…
I repeat my question to all the human right defenders and supporters of nice and fluffy Estinian regime here: Estonian police arrested and interned in a harbor warehouse about 600 people – there's a video how many of them being bound are beaten within an inch of their life by police. There's about 1.3 million inhabitants in Estonia. In Russia there's about 144 million. So 600 arrested in Estonia would be about 70,000 in Russia if something like this were happened. Can anybody tell me, how all European and US leaders, journalists, human right defenders and all of you here would squeal about "totalitarism, fascism and mass repressions" in Russia? So why I don't hear a single even whispering about aparteid in Estonia?
So what do you expect. Heil Putin!
well, actually the folks were rounded up not for "protesting", but for rioting and looting.
Nice event
Have you heard from your media about Kasparov's march in Moscow and how it was put down by police? Do you agree, that Russia was presented in these Western media a monster? But do you know, that about a half of demonstrants were radical neo-fascists from Edual Limonov Social-Bolshevik Party, who were swinging with Nazi flags and crying: "Russia for Russians! Black monkeys go home! (about Caucasians and Central Asians)"? Ain't these people worse than vandals? Or Nazis are today better friends of World democrats?
Looks like the Russians are back to calling everyone who isn't a Russian a Nazi. I wish they would learn something about history, ideology and geography.
tell me which country is discriminating ethnic minorities? In Estonia, the Russians have to learn the Estonian language and they get citizenship then, they are equal to Estonians.
In Russia, minorities are under strong discrimination. Some exemples: there have been rascist murders in Russia and even terrorist attacks towards the minorities (a bomb explosion in an Asian market in Moscow). Of course the government can't control what some rascists do, but the Russian government itself has an apartheid policy towards the Georgians, for exemple (they have been massively sent out from Russia. Estonia has never done anything like that). Also note that recently the markets in all Russian cities were closed for traders without citizenship (could you imagine that in Estonia? I wouldn't, and I live here). And would it be possible for the peaceful Chechens to live normally in Russia? I agree that there are some terrorists among Chechens, but in Russia the whole Chechen nation is discriminated because of "security reasons". If this is not rascism in the governmental level, what it is then?
In Russia every republic has its own language, which is official in this land together with Russian. Of course if you want to work in Moscow you must know Russian. Chechens are not discriminated simply because it is immposible to differ them from Dagestans or Ingushs. Only linguistics specialist can do that. And about Georgians, dont make me laugh. Illegals must return home, even if they dont want to.
About Estonia.
Russians live in Estonia since Novgorodian Republic (XI century).
Why the hell native people, who lived in the country for hundreds of years have to learn some low nation language? That is fascism and apartheid.
This is an outright lie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Russians_in_Estonia
Quote: "The beginning of continuous Russian settlement in what is now Estonia dates back to the late 17th century when several thousand Russian Old Believers, escaping religious persecution in Russia, settled in areas then controlled by Sweden near the western coast of Lake Peipus. The history of intermittent presence of Early East Slavs, or "proto-Russians", in Estonia is longer by several centuries." Emphasis on "intermittent presence". The so-called Old Believers fled from Russian persecution, and they are – always have been – revered and respected in Estonia, espacially since they respect our culture and are able to speak our language.
Just before WWII only about 90 000 Russians lived in Estonia, and back then Estonia was still in the possession of the areas on the orher side of Narva River and those around Petseri (Setumaa) where the percentage of Russians would have been the highest. The overall population of Estonia at that time was about 1,1 million. By the end of the Soviet era, and due to extreme russification policies, the number of Russians had risen to just short of 500 000. Do you really think that those 90 000 (of which many died in the war and through the hands of Stalin) were so prolific indeed that they were able to cause a population growth of that magnitude? LOL. Russians were brought to Estonia with only one aim in mind – to increase their number to such a level as to eventually assimilate the Estonians, wipe out their language and take over. They are not ethnic Russians in Estonia. End of story.
"… help to improve democracy in Estonia" Thank you for making me laugh, dear chap.
I deem I know what have you got instead of your brain? Well, to quote Jeremy Clarkson: " It begins with an S and end with a T… and it isn't SOOT" 🙂
Of course someday Russian armed forces will improve democracy in Estonia, bring order into that lands, but until that day nazi regime and fascists like yourself will oppress every good thing left in Estonia.
you ('russikebomb') said: "Why the hell native people, who lived in the country for hundreds of years have to learn some low nation language? That is fascism and apartheid."
Calling one language "a low nation language" seems to be much more of a fascist thinking. No, I don't agree with you. One language can NOT be lower of higher than any other. Estonian is NOT lower than Russian, Russian is NOT lower than Estonian. If we can't agree in that, there is really nothing to talk about. All the languages and nations are equal.
Anyway, if the languages are equal, why should the Russians of Estonia learn Estonian then? Of course there has been a Russian minority in Estonia for a long time, but most of the Russians nowadays are not from that historical community, but recent immigration. In the 1930s Russians made up 8% of Estonian population (and they spoke Estonian well). Now they are about one third, so most of them are immigrants, not natives (i.e. children and grandchildren of these 8%). Estonians have been in majority here all the time.
One more reason – there are less than 1 million Estonian speakers in the world, but how many Russian speakers there are in total? Considering that proportion, it would suffocate the Estonian language if it would lose the ONLY territory in the world where it is spoken.
And the exemple of Russia: the Tatarians have lived in Russia since the Mongol-Tatar invasion. Would it be a reason for them not to learn Russian and ask all the Russians to talk to them in the Tatar language? The Mari, the Karelians and other Finno-Ugric people lived in their territories, that are now in Russia, even before the Russians arrived there. Would you imagine them to refuse to learn Russian because of that?
If you live in Tatarstan(Tatars republic in Russia) you can learn only tatar language, not knowing Russian at all! Same goes to Mari people. You can know only Mari language, not knowing a Russian at all and Russian citizenship at the same time. In courts and public places you can you in Tatarstan tatar, in Mari mari, in Chechnya chechen.
Nazi Estonia is a different thing. You MUST learn estonian to have citizenship. To have your interests protected in court you MUST speak estonian well. You care of estonian language is understandable, but methods of MAKING people to learn it is inhuman. And believe in the end it is not efficient in modern world of constant changes. Really fair things is a policy of two languages.
Most of mari people live in very close communities, like indians in USA. Russia is poor country and for now it cant provide Internet access to them for free. There is no law Russia that make government create websites, so creation of such websites is in the hands of the native speakers.
But there many web-site in other languages. Tatar, Bashkir, chechen, dagestan, ingush, yakut, altai, buryat, kalmyk and many nationalities, who live Russia.
Keep dreaming. Russia will collapse again and again as Estonia continues to grow stronger. I can't believe you are still arguing over the whole Russian language thing. At least Estonia has the foresight to see that the Russian language is dieing. Besides, it doesn't really sounds like the Estonians even want you in their country. Should that be a surprise? No, because no civilized country wants Russians until they can learn to behave and treat others with respect.
no no no. Remember what you said. Formerly it was the USSR but that collapsed. So in reality, the history of Russia began in 1991 when the Soviet Union split into 3 independent Baltic republics and twelve independent states, including the Russian Federation. In other words, your history is about 16 years old. Nothing impressive about that!
you are pathetic
Absolutely to the point. One could not have expressed this more precisely.
However, the things is that no-one, not even the Russians themselves, knows what Russia is, or, for that matter, what is Russian culture. They are at a loss for indentity. THE only thing that has made a tiny bit of sense in keeping the vast country together, from falling apart, was the myth, the narrative of The Great Good Russian Soldier Who Liberated The World Of All Things Evil Therein.
Deep down inside they themselves know that this has been THE lie for so many years, but they think that they have no alternative, and, consequently cling to it in their last desperate attempt not to look in the mirror and not to drink themselves to death after they would have found – if they did look – that there is nothing but emptiness in the stead of what they had believed to be the great, cordial Russian soul. They would be shattered to pieces.
But there is nothing to do: the sooner you start looking in the mirror, the sooner you'll find a grip on reality and can begin the healing process. So, discard the evil myth, admit that the Soviet Union was no better than Nazi Germany, apologise for what the Soviet Union did – and start your life anew.
I know, it is simple for me to write this, and it'll be very difficult a matter to actually see through, but you have got to start somehow, otherwise you'll die in your own juices (read: poison).
One more thing. "In Russia every republic has its own language, which is official in this land together with Russian". – Oh, yeah, of course. What about the Mari language, for example? Of course the Mari are not discriminated against language-wise … Go and learn something about the situation in Russia before you start trumpeting Russian propaganda.
Well, the difference, my dear fellow, between me and you is that I have NO master. You do – Adolphus Schicklgruber-Putin and your evil soot-for-a-brain. I feel pity for you. Grow up, or try to conceal your pimples of thought until you do. You are probably so young as to have pimples proper 😉
marvin, don't bother replying.
these lowlives like russkiebomb here, they will try to provoke you into saying things that could be used against you or to keep up the hatred towards estonians. to them, the more hateful reply, the better. common putinjugend tactics.
thanks for proving my point again 🙂
Right, hck, I have given up on russkiebomb. He is quite hopeless.
I agree with everything ruskiebomb said. He speaks what all true Russians think. You can try to examine the Russian mind and what not, call us all kinds of things, but thats because you cannot understand the heart and mind of a Russian unless you are one yourself. You cannot discourage us, we've been through too much…. your hate is only motivation. We are regaining our strength and when we get back to health, your hate will turn into fear again.
come on you are really funny. That is links to the official nazi propaganda of Estonia. Visit web-site of Russian community: http://www.bronze-soldier.com/. Read about atrocities of nazi regime of estonia.
The 20th century considerably changed Old Believers life. Now there are almost 15 thousands Old Believers by birth in Estonia.
You can learn about the Old Believers here http://www.starover.ee/
and now they had to learn estonian language, because nazi clique came to power in Estonia.
What is the alternative? You don't expect anyone with a brain to read and believe news from Russia do you? Take any newspaper outside of Russia and they provide the same account. Oh, but lets make some paranoid statement like "US controls all media in the world outside of Russia". Here are the facts about Russian media, can it get any easier to understand?
Texas1 I really expected more fore you. Do you honestly see this ridicules article as a 100% truth? Where are the sources, references, and facts? Its like it was written by a teenager in his parent's basement not a news resource. What's happening to America? Why is American public becoming dumber and more easily led by the nose everyday?
To answer your question; – Russian media (government or Independent) is also biased to some degree. But you cannot compare Russian bias information, to the US propaganda. Just look how they used the death of Litvenenco against Russian interests. They were actually very claver, because they managed to make a martyr out him purely using sociological manipulation such as (pity) without a shred of evidence. The same could be said about Polikovskaya. This play on people's (Emotions) – is what makes Western Propaganda much more effective, efficient and dangerous than the Russian or even Soviet ever was.
When people heard or read soviet propaganda, it was so obvious that it is, in fact, propaganda. When people, hear western propaganda, they have much more chances to believe it because it plays on people's emotions! With sad pictures like Litvenenco on his deathbed, or Putin standing next to the Soviet flag. I think most intelligent people in Europe can filter through this fact-less emotional blackmail. However, I think Americans have be zombified so much by this constant brainwashing and empty slogans, – they believe anything they hear. And that's sad…..
Also, with regards to Russian media – do you honestly think that after constant attacks on Russia and its government by the western media, Russia would just sit back and watch how its image is damaged by inconsistent and "INCOMPLETE" information on a daily basis? Of course, it will engage in a Promotional campaign. And, as it is know to you, Promotional campaigns are always somewhat bias but they never tell lies.
As a person to person, I advise you not take information just from Russian sources or US media. But take it form BOTH or just sources with opposite opinions, and find the golden middle>>>
Hope this will help you on your voyage for the Truth 🙂
Your virtual friend (nothing more) Boris xxxxxx
This was originally printed in the New York Times! Read the article.
What are you talking about? The article is about how Putin has taken over the media in Russia and dictates the types of stories that can be written. Putin also tells the newspapers to make up bad stories about other countries. Doesn't that sound like good old fashion KGB style mind control?
….. never mind.
You can pick up a Russian newspaper rag in any library or bookstore in the US. Daily television news from Moscow is available on our cable channels.
Please post the Sidney Herald link again. I can't find it.
But, even more so Russian media, especially television, where most of narod get their news information. Two current cases in point are the coverage of this topic and the sudden hysteria over the proposed missile defence sites in Czechia and Poland.
Just wonderng, do you think the Missile Defence Shield is a good idea???
The short answer is yes, probably. Without being too adamant, I think it is probably worthwhile. The best argument in favor of it is the noisy opposition coming from the Kremlin. I think it could reduce the temptation for misadventure. At the risk of stating the obvious, the proposed installations are of little or no military consequence. Their significance would be geopolitical and psychological. Like a dog marking his territory with urine. It would be something of a reminder to Russia that she will not be permitted to reclaim certain parts of the old empire. In Eastern Europe the status quo can change quickly. I think that in the next 5-10 years Russia will reconstitute the military to a serious level of capability. During that same time frame there is a very good chance that the current level of relative affluence in the country will deteriorate. This could motivate the siloviki to seek another means to demonstrate the "greatness" of Russia, namely forging a new empire. A dangerous situation for her neighbors. I don't think that is as unlikely as it sounds, initially. History would suggest that a Russia without some imperial possesion to slap around is like a smoker without cigarettes. At any time, Ukraine could return to de facto Russian dominance, putting even more countries in danger. I hope that I am wrong about all of that, but those are the reasons that I think it is probably a good idea to install the "Shield" components. On the other hand, there is no compelling reason not to.
Yes, apart from the fact that it would start the new cold war.
Sorry, I haven't time today to argue with simple-minded slogan spouters.
I think you mean shooting em? That is "judenfrei" estonian tradition of dealing thigs.
no, just give them lots of free vodka and 'the liberators' stab soon each other to death.
"That is "judenfrei" estonian tradition of dealing thigs."
Enlighten us with your 'wisdom' about this 'fact'
what happened during the war is a shame. I agree that the Nazis were criminals. But why do you make the generalisation on all the Estonians of that time and even all the Estonians nowadays?
Estonian government has also declared that nazism was a crime. They have left no suspicion. Yes, there was ONE monument erected to the Estonian soldier in the SS uniform (it didn't symbolise killing Jews, but fighting against the Red Army), but it was immediately REMOVED by the government. The government has NEVER praised the Nazis.
Waffen SS monument still in Estonia, even if you ignore it.
I dont speak about estonians, I do speak about estonian government. Nazi and apartheid regime established in Estonia urges for international intervention.
First and only? Obviously, my darling boy, there are serious gaps in your knwoledge of history
Additionally, approx. 75% of local Yews were able to leave before the Germans came, with help by local people. The rest, about 1000 were killed in the death camps, sadly, with help by some Estonians, but mostly by Germans. What happened before the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, though, was quite a different matter. Yewish culture flourished in Estonia as did those of other minorities. It all changed when the Soviets came and started deporting Yews, Estonians and local Russians to Siberia, and also killing them.
I suggest you read up on that bit of history
Meanwhile, this is what your darling compatriots did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
This is not to say that you are responsible, but by defending the crimes of the Soviets you might be taken as one …
Katyn massacre is a war crime, terrible and inhuman. But at the other side we do remember death of thousands of Red army soldiears and officers in Polish captivity in 1920. But anyway that is crimes.
Well it is pretty clear that Belgrade and Berlin are not countries. The only country awarded "Judenfrei" is Estonia. Your arguments of white and furry estonians are laughable. There were good people, but they are minority as always. About soviet "atrocities" read what frenchmen did with their collaborators, what italians did. Soviet government did with standards of that harsh times. I even think that soviet policy toward collaborators was too kind.
"Katyn massacre is a war crime …"
I really, really thought that you could do a little bit better – no, it isn't a war crime since neither Germany nor the Soviet Union had declared war on Poland. The Soviets and Germans just went there, divided the country between themselves and started rounding up Jews, Polish intelligentia, military men etc, and killing them. And the same occurred everywhere, including Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.
" read what frenchmen did with their collaborators, what italians did. Soviet government did with standards of that harsh times. I even think that soviet policy toward collaborators was too kind."
And that is you excuse? Coming like a whining dog, its tail between its hind legs and saying "other did it, too, you know; and, I was even mild compared to them, you know…" Well, you know what, you are simply an obtuse, dull, pathetic, edge- and pointless little boy in his puberty, and totally blame those pheromones in your blood for lack of sense in your brain. From this point on, I'll give up. There no use in arguing with a teenager. I hope you grow up. Fare you well.
6. "You definitely need a lesson in democracy and be sure Russia gonna give it to you and your compatriots."
Democracy? 🙂 Surely, you erred, my dear chap; you wanted to say "mobcracy", better known as mob law, didn't you? Thank you, we already had one of those lessons last week. As for democracy, you probably would not know it if it hit you on the head.
My dear friend, I am looking forward to your answer, and the facts – that goes without saying.
Have a good evening, and see you soon.
PS. I am not full of bile, I am quite serene because I have this inkling that we are making progress and shall be getting along rather nicely rather soon …. ish.
First of all American government is direct chief of Estonian government. Even Estonian president is North American.
Katyne massacre become weapon against Russia. Do you really wanna bring this topic here? We are speaking not about Soviet Union 50 years ago, but about Estonian Nazi today.
Katyn massacre is war crime, because it army men who killed em and army men who is dead.
1.No, he's Estonian who was forced to flee after the WWII.
2. Yes, I wanna because the Svoiet Soldier represents the same sort of atrocities – Estonia lost a considerable amout of her population through the hand of the very same soldier. Can't you really understand that, dear russkiebomb? My grandfather served 25+5 in Siberia, I saw him in 1975 for the first time, and a few years later, he died. My grandmother was sent to prison so that my father and his two brothers + a sister(all under 10) had to be given to fosterparents (who were really low-life ones and beat them for no reason). And all this for being a little bit more laborious and richer … Obviously you have not personal experience, that's why you are defending these criminals.
Nah. Meanwhile in London:
The son of Russia's Deputy Prime Minister was jailed for attacking a fellow investment banker in a drunken brawl at a party in London's East End, East London Advertiser reported May 1. Petr Zhukov, 24, son of top Russian official and chess master Alexander Zhukov attacked 25-year-old Ben Ramsey who tried to gatecrash the party in a flat at Albany Court in Whitechapel, but ended up needing 20 stitches to his lip and five to his cheek. Police found Ramsey on the pavement outside the building covered in blood after he had been punched repeatedly by Zhukov and another Russian, an amateur boxer who owns the flat. The incident has happened just weeks after Zhukov was in a similar incident with a London taxi-driver. The politician's son was convicted of unlawful wounding which carries a maximum five-year jail term. Zhukov could also be deported.
No. I told you that Russia's Deputy Prime Minister was jailed and it was because he did smth really bad and was worth it. Simple as that.
Also I told you that Russian hooligans got prisoned because of vandalism they did in Tallinn, not because they were thinking differently than most of the Estonia. I dont call them nazis or communists or protesters because they were not. They were hooligans and robbers. Simple as that.
Vandalism took part only at nighttime when it was dark. There were no window-breakers and robbers at day time. Also there were no protesters at day time. For a real reasons there would have been action all through the day, there wasn't. Simple as that.
Sorry for mis-copying. Of course it had to be "No. I told you that Russia's Deputy Prime Minister was jailed and …"
I'm sorry again.
Damn!!! Even bigger sorry from Estonia!!! OF COURSE it had to be "No. I told you that SON OF Russia's Deputy Prime Minister was jailed and…"
Time to get some sleep here in peaceful Estonia.
It's amazing what can alcohol-selling ban do. Alcohol selling has been prohibited from shops in whole country for 4-5 days and there's no vandalism, no bad carcrashes, no neonationalists on the streets and all the country looks so much better place to live.
Really, you should also try it in Russia.
well they tried it in 1917 and look what happened.
Well done, hck and asdf, this made my day … 🙂 🙂 🙂
Well, having had my laugh, there is, indeed, much more to it than first meets the eye. 1917 – the fall of the Russian Empire ensued; in the 80ies the Soviets tried to impose some sort of abstinece on the Russian muzhik – and, voila! what followed was the fall of the Soviet Union! Lesson learnt (or is it?) – do not take away booze from the Russian muzhik lest his inherent urges of destruction become uncontrollable. We do not want Russia to become unstable again, do we? So, abstinence is a big NO-NO in Russia. Better not teach them this evil word and concept.
If the comment was also meant for me, you just don't get irony.
Scroll down a bit and you'll see. Obviously you just didn't read till the end but instead jumped to write this, khm, how shall I put it …, somewhat obtuse comment 🙂
Bosnians are the exact same way. I think that it just has to do with how they were raised. My guess is that the parents are alcoholics and never discipline their children. Alcoholism breeds alcoholism, irrational behavior, lack of respect for human life and the cycle repeats generation after generation. As a result, they don't know how to act civilized.
Texas1, just so you know, if we ever met on the street, I'd leave you like that Ramsey kid.
Damn!!! Even bigger sorry from Estonia!!! OF COURSE it had to be "No. I told you that SON OF Russia's Deputy Prime Minister was jailed and…"
Meanwhile near the Moscow:
Can someone tell me please how many tents and scream-choirs of "Nashi" movement schoolchildren have been raised there already? None? Really interesting.
most of the injuries was acropodium (hands) and made by broken glass when looting stuff from cracked windows.
and that one killed was some regular russian versus russian stuff, nothing to do with police.
Oh boy!
Meanwhile in Estonia!
Biggest Estonian online news site http://www.delfi.ee got their english version of news up. Now you can read all the news as they seen by Estonian people.
Have a nice day!
Ei Russkie.
I remember I told a joke about russia, and you told me: "why hate russia? Hate America instead!"..
What's wrong, have you been brainwashed as well??? 🙁
Or maybe you just like fascism more than russia?? 😉
Hi AmericaPhobe.
1) When did Russia occupy Estonia?
2) Putin has done more than enyone else for Jewish people.
3) No one is denying that there is Fascism and anti-Semitism in Russia. However, it is in no way on the scale that it thrives in Estonia and its government.
4) Did Putin start the war in chechnia?? Incidentally who finished it? And for who's candidate did Chechens vote for in the first ever democratic election in Chechnia? And what was the percentage??
You are making me defend Putin again, and I reeeeeally do not want to… I don't particularly like the guy. Maybe just his muscles 😉
I don't really see where you are going with this. I mean, I agree with most of the points you made, except Russia being the same as SU. I just don't know what you expect to hear from me, and exactly what is your point.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Boris is just a zit faced kid that has never left his little Russian village. It sounds like he his finally starting to be enlightened.
Damn! I wanted to launch it at the Kremlin.
let's stay polite. I really think I'm already spending too much time in this forum… 😀 but as nobody has asked Boris's questions, I will do it now.
"1) When did Russia occupy Estonia?"
In 1939. In the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact the two empires – Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany – divided Eastern Europe between them, Estonia as well as some other countries were "given" to the Soviet Union. Then Russia forced Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland to sign "the treaties of mutual help". For those small countries there was not much choice, everything was already decided. Only Finland refused to sign that treaty and it was a right decision, as history has shown.
Anyway, those treaties meant that Soviet military bases were created in the Baltic states. In Estonia they were mostly on the coast and islands. By the way, before the Red Army came, the islands of Western Estonia were inhabited by Swedes who had lived there since the 13th-14th century. They were forced to leave their homes and the whole Estonian Swedish culture was destroyed. The Soviet Union brought much more soldiers into those bases than they had promised, and although they had also promised to use those only for self-defence, they started to use the bases in Estonia soon after creating them… to bomb Finland that refused to sign such a treaty! One more promise the Soviet Union made was that they won't get involved in the inner politics of Estonia. Anyway, soon after the army came, there were held elections to show that Estonians had "chosen" to be in the USSR. As the armed forces of USSR were already in Estonia, the elections were held in the Soviet style, of course – they were organised to play democracy, but actually they had nothing to do with it. The opposition had no right to participate. Also there were too many votes for the USSR – if there are more than 90% of votes for one choice, it's clear that it's not democratic, it can't be. And why should have the Estonians voted massively for the regime that deportated tens of thousands of Estonians in Siberia less than two years later?
The second time Russia occupied Estonia was in 1944, when the Nazis had escaped. By the way, they escaped a bit before the Soviet army left and meanwhile Estonians declared independence again. So, Tallinn was not occupied by Nazis any more when the Soviets arrived. Anyway, they called it "liberation" of Tallinn. Of course, the Germans escaped from the Red Army and I agree that it was thanks to the Russians that they escaped, but it was still occupation, not liberation. If you had only liberated us, we would still be grateful. Liberation is what USA did in France – they drove the Nazis out and the Republic of France was restored. In Estonia, the independent country was not restored, instead of that the new power started its own crimes again, some years later also massive colonisation (through immigration). That's the difference between liberation and occupation.
"2) Putin has done more than enyone else for Jewish people."
What exactly? Actually I'm not saying he hasn't done anything, I don't know much about that subject, but I don't believe that anybody else hasn't done as much. Is he the best person in the world? 🙂 anyway, as I don't know much about the Russian Jews, I won't try to argue in this question.
"3) No one is denying that there is Fascism and anti-Semitism in Russia. However, it is in no way on the scale that it thrives in Estonia and its government."
In Russia, there are massive fascist movements that have been mentioned here already. The Kremlin tolerates it, because these movements seem to get permissions for demonstrations far more easily than liberal opposition. In Estonia there are some nationalists as well (believe me, I don't like them 😀 ), but they have never become as violent as the ones in Russia. In Russia, people have been killed because of their nationality or skin colour, in Estonia there has been nothing like that. As for the Estonian government, it has said clearly that it's against any kind of fascism. Has anybody else than Russia called Estonia a fascist country? It really seems to me that it's just a word they use to turn people against us. Actually I don't even imagine where do you see the connection between them and fascism. And the fact that a memorial for the dead is taken to a cemetary is NOT a question of human rights.
"4) Did Putin start the war in chechnia?? Incidentally who finished it? And for who's candidate did Chechens vote for in the first ever democratic election in Chechnia? And what was the percentage??"
Putin did not start that war, Yeltsin did. Putin continued it and nobody has finished it. It can be declared finished, but are there still some attacks? Actually it's the same thing that USA does in Iraq – they can say any time that the war is over and all the rest of attacks are terrorism, not war. No matter how do you call it, but declaring a war to be finished doesn't mean it is finished (no, I'm not denying that there are terrorists among Iraqis and Chechens). As for the first ever democratic elections there, Mashadov won, but Russian army killed him as a terrorist. He was elected democratically and he was quite moderate comparing to the real terrorists. For exemple he was an enemy of Bassajev (who was a real terrorist) and he said that these attacks were criminal. Anyway, on some reason Russia had to call them all terrorists and kill them. In the elections organised by Russia, the "uncomfortable" candidates were dead and to make more sure that the "right" candidate would win, thousands of soldiers with the right to vote were brought there from all over Russia. Also, what I already mentioned: if the percentage of the elections' winner is exeptionally big, there is probably something wrong with the democracy. In normal conditions people don't think alike, do they?
As for the war in Chechnya, I suggest you some books by Anna Politkovskaja. I can't retell them.
I've pretty much given up on trying to teach Boris about history. He seems to forget that the US gave citizenship to thousands of Russian Jews during the 1980's that were subject to political and religious persecution.
Give me ONE exemple of Anti-Semitism in Estonia after the restoration of independence. Just ONE! Where the hell have you taken this idea from?
If you don't believe me, ask the Jewish Community in Estonia.
http://www.estblul.ee/EST/Liikmed/juudi.shtml (the Estonian version of the page – the chairman's name and phone number are updated, the postal and e-mail address are the same).
some contact information. I am tired of explaining.
I am tired of arguing. Estonia is NOT anti-semitic. Can you give me just ONE exemple of anti-semitic acts here after WW2? Just ONE? I really don't understand where have you taken that idea from.
I won't speak for the Jews now, you can ask them if you wish. Some data on the Estonian Jewish Community is here:
http://www.estblul.ee/EST/Liikmed/juudi.shtml (the Estonian page, the name of the chairman and the phone number are updated)
Ask them. Don't blame us without a reason, please.
So? What was the point of your post? Männil? Männil's case was investigated thoroughly and he, since he was found not guilty, was acquitted. The real reason behind Zuroff's continued interest in Männil is that Männil is very rich, and Zuroff's organisation, running low on funding, is after Männil's money. Simple.
I just want to thank all of the friendly Estonians that helped teach these dumb Russians a few things. A special warm hello and thank you goes out to the following people.
and a very special thanks to the sexy Losha, Liisa & Kala!
I hope you all come back to this site regularly!
Sorry tn, i meant to include you too.
Well, you just in effect said hello to yourself, but you also forgot TroubleMaker and MoscowMadMan..
Nope, those people are all Estonians.
ok little monkey 🙂
few examples
Hmm.. If you live in denial then i cannot help you. But if you want to educate yourself, then google "russian skinheads", "russian neo-nazi" "dpni", "ldpr" ect…
Rogozin, many LDPR folks ect..
Well he sure can stop "nesoglashnis" protests. Why cannot he stop facsist groups as well?
That is what I do mean – if you cant comprehend with difficulties of the topic you switch to person. Your nazi teachers should be proud.
Well, thank you for you proposition. I do agree that personal conversation are much more interesting. But currently my compatriots in you country are being persecuted for their views and nationality. So I do think that we should wait for a end of this all.
So I said – when all this is over. I do not want to further explain that it's not them who are under attack, but ok … I'll still say. Nobody is under attack, it's just looting and vandalising, and that's it. Period. There really is no big issue between intelligent people, whether they be Estonian or Russian. And, luckily for us, they are the majority. I suggest you look this http://www.tv.ee/static/manager/pildid/console/tv.ee/f_clip.asp?videoid={46B477D8-EA2E-4F5C-B85B-7B7A3D3BCD0B}
Whatever you think, my offer stands, dear chap.
or if it does not work, just copy and paste the link into your browser.
What is that, a threat? Russians really know how to make themselves look civilized. You really need to take a class in manners and learn some social skills. No wonder the world views Russians as a bunch of drunken Neanderthals.
That wasn't a personal threat. You really need to take a class in structured reading. No wonder the world views Texans as a bunch of retarted hicks.
Careful texas1. Those things are notoriously inaccurate. It might land in Dallas.
Now now, be nice.
Particularly if some drunk Russian is at the controls.
I like donuts
Come on, Russian fellows! Shed some light on us about progress and protest actions at Himki, please! How many protesters are there already? Those damn diggers lost your war heroes bodies at the heart of Russia! Will the roads that come from Moscow blocked by "Nashi" movement or not?
IT'S MUCH WORSE CRIME THAN ESTONIAN ONE AND IT HAPPENS NEAR MOSCOW AND IS DONE BY RUSSIANS THEMSELVES! Can't you really understand it?
You two-faced clowns. Keep your own home clean and normal first. And only then when everything is OK in your own country with democracy and nazis, only then you can bark at neighbors wall.
well, the EU needs a clear position in this question. The Russian parliament delegation that recently visited Estonia has an official point of view that the Estonian government should retire. It's the inner politics of Estonia that they are trying to influence. What would you say if for exemple Poland or USA or Estonia would ask Putin to retire?
By the way, the embassy of Estonia in Moscow has been surrounded for days by government supported protesters that have already even physically attacked the building of the embassy. Is it normal?
I am tired of explaining already. So many comments accuse Estonia in anti-Semitism, the latest comment was from the name "somebody". Why? I really don't understand where do you take this from. Can you give me just ONE exemple of Anti-Semitism in Estonia after WW2? Just ONE? If you wish, you can also ask the Estonian Jewish Community:
http://www.estblul.ee/EST/Liikmed/juudi.shtml (the Estonian version, the name of the chairman and the phone number are updated)
I'm sure they will be glad to explain you the situation. Don't blame us without a reason, slogans are not arguments.
"Besides, EU needs Russia while Russia not that much!"
Bhuaahahahhaaahaha!!! Help me PLEASE, my stomach hurts so much from laughing!!
(sorry, I didn't see that my last comment was already published, so I rewrote it 3 times. It was accidental, I had no intention to repeat it so many times) 🙂
Russia's Biggest Business Partner of the Year 2007 Andrea Merkel just called to Estonia's Prime Minister mr Ansip and she told that she is fully aware of the situation of Estonian Embassy in Moscow and that she supports Estonia in all possible ways to solve the situation and to make Russia take care of international duties needed ie Wiena convention.
You don't read news the wrong way, you just read too old news from 28.04.07 😀
Yesterday's news from the same site, today's ones are not yet there:
The European Union has promised to help end a virtual siege of the Estonian embassy in Moscow sparked by the removal of a Soviet-era war memorial in Tallinn, Estonia's Foreign Minister Urmas Paet said Tuesday.
Foreign Minister Paet said he had spoken to his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier who "promised speedy assistance from the European Union to normalize the situation around the Estonian embassy in Moscow."
Germany currently holds the rotating presidency of the EU.
EU Urges Russia to End Estonia Embassy Blockade
The European Commission urged Russia Wednesday to end a blockade of Estonia's embassy in Moscow and said it wanted to send an EU delegation to raise the issue with Russian authorities.
On Wednesday evening the German ambassador to Moscow presented a diplomatic demarche to the Russian government in the name of the whole EU, setting out the EU's misgivings over the row, the German foreign ministry confirmed.
Earlier Chancellor Angela Merkel had phoned Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip to assure him that Germany was doing all it could to ease the row with Russia, Estonian officials said.
well in your wet dream maybe
the hardest thing I read was, quote:
The German government statement Saturday said Merkel had urged both Putin and Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip to keep a lid on the row by showing restraint and restoring parliamentary contacts as soon as possible.
The German government had suggested that the parliaments of the two countries should engage in direct contact over the conflict regarding the removal of the Soviet war memorial, government spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm said.
ну чё долбойобы,всё сидити срётесь?
Ok, as soon as I finish my donut.
How funny… russia, the defender of minorities.
Is this the same russia that has attempted to eradicate and russify one small nation after another? Is this the same russia where, as we speak, cultures are dying because the government is more than eager to see them go? The very same russia that has systematically massacred Estonians? And Latvians? And Lithuanians? And Ukrainians? And Chechnyans?
How is this russia any better than the Nazis? Because russia killed slightly less civilians than Germany? Because russia has displaced slightly less people than the Nazis?
You are a dying nation led by thugs. You whine and moan and bully, but you are alone and impotent. Your time has passed.
Everybody can read by themselves what is a situation of about 40 small ethnic nations nations that are part of kind and glorious Russian Federation. Mari is one of the nations that is systematically been killed by Russian government. Maris are not allowed to speak their language and promote their culture, their activists are beaten up etc. As a rule you can't have a public voice if you are against governmental view, so Maris have their wepage up in Estonia, where minorities are honoured as long as they are in accordance with local laws.
Read it and you will understand what was a situation of Estonian nation and culture during Soviet times and what Estonian people had to handle then and what would it be if Estonians would not fight actively against Russian demands. It was just 15 years ago and most of us remember it too well.
Well, they'll get it right some day, they're bound to. And all signs show that it's this time.
Look at your country, my friend. Look at the criminals who lead you. Look at the dwindling population. Alcoholism. Crime. AIDS.
How long is it going to be until you can't hold onto Siberia? How long until the moslems migrate en masse and turn your country into Russistan?
Better start learning Arabic, my friend 😉
There were times when it was even worse. And why Arabic, by the way?
yup, some of the Chinese language, Cantonese or Mandarin, would be more appropriate.
I'm worried how powerless the russian special police forces are in front of a bunch of kids interfering the work of the Estonian embassy in Moscow. In the civilized world police is to keep up safe conditions within the inhabitants of the nation…
Only in Russia…
Only in Russia huh? You must not get out much.
You Russians aren't very original. Maybe that is why you had to copy so many US products.
Does anyone have the feeling that the situation would be a lot calmer if ethnic Russians had been granted automatic citizenship when Estonia became independent?
Fair enough—the country had been occupied, so you can understand the desire for some sort of revenge—but still, creating an instant legal division was a pretty poor move.
Imagine South Africa without reconciliation, but with the whites being disowned. That probably wouldn't have turned out too well.
I don't know the history, so maybe someone could enlighten me—were there any movements by the Estonian government to ease the transition by such means?
Good work Estonia! I just hope you will deport all aliens that participated in riots back to Russia, where they belong. Interesting, that meanwhile in Russia WW2 memorials are wiped out, but who cares, right? Where are NASHISTI when country needs them? 😀
nashisti are having hard times being pwnt by their friends:
All about discrimination of Ethnic Russians in Baltic States:
Hope UN is objective enough for you!!
No! It's American propaganda from American puppet organization!! I don't believe any of it!!!
Just a few examples of anti-Semitism in Estonia:
In February 2005 the Ministry of Defense distributed a movie to Estonian schools, which praised Estonian volunteers to the SS during World War II and claimed that the Nazi occupation saved Estonia from the Soviets. No mention was made of the SS murder of Jews or of the transportation of thousands of Jews to camps in Estonia.
On 9 February 2005 the newspaper Kesknadal of the mainstream Centrist Party, a member of the government coalition, published an article by former Nazi legionnaire, I. Saar entitled, "History Cannot Be Sold at Auction," criticizing the Estonian government's decision from September 2004 to dismantle a memorial in the city of Lihula honoring Estonian SS soldiers.
On 16 July 2005 about 1,500 former Estonian SS collaborators held a rally in Tartu, attended by Rein Lang, minister of justice (Reform Party).
In mid-August a group of Holocaust researchers from Germany visiting Estonia discovered that the memorial to Holocaust victims in Klooga had been desecrated. The memorial marks the place where 2,000 Jews were shot to death and burnt on 19 September 1944. A local Jew told the visitors that the desecration had occurred in summer 2004 but the perpetrators had not been caught and the memorial was never repaired.
In early August the trial of Olev Khannula for incitement of hatred began in the city of Tallinn. In 2003 he wrote "Jews to the oven" on the Internet forum of the Delfi news site. The prosecutor said that the trial would serve as a precedent, establishing a clear line between freedom of speech and incitement of ethnic hatred, etc, etc, etc….
Admiring the hard work you put into your blog and detailed information you present. It's nice to come across a blog every once in a while that isn't the same old rehashed information. Fantastic read! I've saved your site and I'm including your RSS feeds to my Google account.
Aw, this was a really nice post. Spending some time and actual effort to make a very good article… but what can I say… I hesitate a whole lot and never manage to get anything done.
Awesome post.
Knowing the traits of an quality and professional roofer can help you choose the best one to your specific needs. The roof of your house along with your patio and carport has to weather the vagaries of sub-tropical climate of Queensland throughout the year, year after year. With no dearth of the roofing companies around the market, you will need to search around for essentially the most efficient one.
If you print often, maybe over and over again each day, you should actually be mindful of the sort of your cartridge you might be using. Due to its high specs, gaming laptops are often considerably more expensive in comparison to regular laptops and quite often much chunkier too. The widely using USB is simply because its small size and big capacity, portable characteristics, if USB to regulate and manage the let customers consume very trouble then using USB disk run counter for the original intention.
If the water heater is making boiling sounds when in operation or if there is no hot water supply in the home then water heater repair San Antonio needs can be of great help. It's always better to be safe than sorry, and it's always best to be prepared. In industrial plants where there is a high density of employees and many manual operations involved, an improvement in the environment can produce substantial benefits in terms of increased production, reduced errors, and a decline in complaints and absenteeism among employees.
Gather The Materials #2, from 24 to 32 slots.