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The Duerga - A New Look At Dwarves
I'm bored of dwarves. So, I'm trying to create my own dwarves. I've decided to call them the Duerga. Here's my basic ideas, and I'll flesh them out later, hopefully with your help.
-They are short and stocky, as usual. However, they are encased in armor. No man has ever seen a Duerga's flesh, and it is a good question as to whether they actually have flesh. The visors of their helms reveal only darkness. Unlike usual fantasy dwarves, beards are not important to them. They may not even have body hair.
-They are supernatural beings, not just stunted, surly mountain dwellers. They are the sons (maybe daughters, though I was thinking that they were all male) of the god Durgi, or a similar earth god. As such, they have semidivine powers over metal and, to a lesser extent, stone. They are still mortal though, and are in many other ways deficient to Men.
-The element for Duerga is metal, not earth. It goes better with the whole 'encased in armor' thing.
-The Duerga have a very verbose, heavy language.
-The Duerga dwell in the heart of Mount Thunderclap, a great volcano in which they have built a massive metal stronghold. The Duerga name for Mount Thunderclap (and by extension, the stronghold) is Szahrnevarbenarch, meaning 'Mountain of the Wise'.
-The traditional Duerga weapon is the hammer. When they must fight, the Duerga arm themselves in round shields and carry hammers.
-The oldest Duerga, who are also the leaders, are called Bcharnegstenevarhn, 'The Wisest Of All'. They rule Szahrnevarbenarch.
-I don't envision the Duerga as the surly, grunting, beer-guzzlers, I envision them more as very quiet, contemplative, slow to act, almost Zen-like in their calm, meditative, spiritual, etc.
Can anybody help me out here? I know I have a lot already, but I'm sure there's some way that you can aid me.
black metal dwarves
just call them a different name, for the Forgotten Realms dark dwarves are called the Duergar - but yours, compared to the TSR ones seem realistic, even though supernatural (the TSR sort is just a variation on the Drow - evil dwarves)
Some thoughts of mine:
their city (cities) will not be pleasant spots - with disregard for comfort of other, less enduring species, there will be industrial fumes, pounding noise or searing heat and chilling cold in some areas. Their gardens, or places of contemplation, could have wells of molten metal and trees (or art objects) of living steel. There might not even be beds - do they sleep at all? Or do they stand while sleeping?
What about the food? Do they need sustenance? Perhaps they need to work to sustain themselves - each time a weapon they forged or a tool they made is used, or a piece of art adored, they are fed a little. Of course, a full-scale war might make some of them rather bloated...
What are their prime valued virtues? Honor? Wisdom? Age? Serenity? Judgment?
About procreation - perhaps their god made the first few, but they must forge the body of every new-born and the god picks the best-crafted ones to imbue with souls...
This allows every dwarf to take a special sort of pride when his child succeeds...
Being so alien, they will be enigmatic - as other, more fleshy and chaotic races will not understand their way of life and depth of contemplation.
The classical adventurer would meet with queer looks, and disrespect when asking his childish and irrelevant questions... but yes, he cannot comprehend the beaty of a rare quicksilver phosphide crystal... or its meaning to the universal truth...
They could amass all their knowledge, the sayings of the elders and the wise, prophecies and memories of great deeds in a temple-like structure, where it will be inscribed on metal cylinders, these stacked and lit with an inner fire, the runes glowing as the cylinders slowly spin...
Let's say that before a new city can be founded, the records of the old one must be copied so that the new city will not be without history....
What are their plights? Their conflicts? do they have celebrations? funerary custom (is a dead body just molten down to make a very special set of tools or armor? or are the dead simply displayed as statues?)
If they make music- what is it like? Organs powered by steam? Drums? Or metal? (very appropriate:)
They certainly willdeal with the spirits of the earth - you should devise some more besides the common elemental.
Well? how does it sound?
Excellent ideas...
Things they value: Age, knowledge, wisdom, detachment (from the 'transient' world; probably better termed your 'serenity'). 'Respect thine elders, young brass!'
About procreation - perhaps their god made the first few, but they must forge the body of every new-born and the god picks the best-crafted ones to imbue with souls...
This allows every dwarf to take a special sort of pride when his child succeeds...
I like that. I'm gonna' go with that!
their city (cities) will not be pleasant spots - with disregard for comfort of other, less enduring species, there will be industrial fumes, pounding noise or searing heat and chilling cold in some areas. Their gardens, or places of contemplation, could have wells of molten metal and trees (or art objects) of living steel.
I'm gonna' use that too.
What about the food? Do they need sustenance? Perhaps they need to work to sustain themselves - each time a weapon they forged or a tool they made is used, or a piece of art adored, they are fed a little. Of course, a full-scale war might make some of them rather bloated...
There might not even be beds - do they sleep at all? Or do they stand while sleeping?
I was thinking that they don't sleep, but I also like the sleeping standing up.
Being so alien, they will be enigmatic - as other, more fleshy and chaotic races will not understand their way of life and depth of contemplation.
The classical adventurer would meet with queer looks, and disrespect when asking his childish and irrelevant questions... but yes, he cannot comprehend the beaty of a rare quicksilver phosphide crystal... or its meaning to the universal truth...
Yeah. Exactly.
They could amass all their knowledge, the sayings of the elders and the wise, prophecies and memories of great deeds in a temple-like structure, where it will be inscribed on metal cylinders, these stacked and lit with an inner fire, the runes glowing as the cylinders slowly spin...
Let's say that before a new city can be founded, the records of the old one must be copied so that the new city will not be without history....
Hmm....Needs more discussion. Shall we?
Funerary custom (is a dead body just molten down to make a very special set of tools or armor? or are the dead simply displayed as statues?)
I can't decide between melted down or statues...
If they make music- what is it like? Organs powered by seam? Drums? Or metal? (very appropriate:)
Actually, I was thinking that they would sing. I know that doesn't sound very dwarven, but imagine it: Deep droning voices, reverberating through metal bodies, echoing together against the metal walls of their fortresses, making this very strange, organ-like noise.
Excellent ideas, Echo! Let's build off of those.
The Duerga language
The Duerga language and alphabet consists of these noises:
A- pronounced 'ah'
AH- also pronounced 'ah'. Differentiated by tone.
B- prounounced 'buh'
BCH- a glottal sound, as in the German 'ch' (achtung). Something like 'buhk'.
C- pronounced 'k'.
CH- a glottle sound, just like the German 'ch' ('kuh')
D- pronounced as normal.
E- pronounced 'eh'.
F- pronounced as normal.
G- pronounced as normal.
H- not pronounced unless added to another letter.
I- pronounced 'ee'.
K- pronounced as normal.
M- pronounced as normal.
N- pronounced as normal.
O- pronounced as 'ou'.
R- pronounced as normal, but always rolled.
RH- same pronunciation, tonally different.
S- pronounced as normal.
SZ- pronounced as 'siz' or 'sh'.
T- pronounced as normal.
U- pronounced as 'oo'.
V- pronounced as normal.
Y- pronounced as normal.
Z- pronounced as normal.
Examples of Verbs:
To forge - Bchuresz (Buhk-oo-rrr-ehsh)
To melt- Raduresz (Rrr-ah-doo-rrr-ehsh)
To temper- Bcharnemesz (Buhk-ahrrr-nehm-ehsh)
To hammer- Erhdegesz (Ehrrr-deh-gehsh)
To make- Uzovesz (Oo-zoh-vehsh)
To carve (literally, to stonecut)- Szahrbuchesz (Siz-ahrrr-buhk-esh)
Examples of Nouns:
The Wisest Of All- Bcharnegstenevarhn (Buhk-ahrrrn-ehg-stehn-eh-vahrrrn)
Mountain of the Wise- Szahrnevarbenarch (Siz-ahrrr-neh-vahrrr-behn-arrrk)
Carver (literally, stonecutter)- Szahrbuchi; plural- Szahrbucha (Siz-ahrrr-buhk-ee/ siz-ahrrr-buhk-ah)
Blacksmith (literally, forger)- Bchuri; plural- Bchura (Buhk-oo-rrree/ buhk-oo-rrrah)
Warrior (literally, wielder of hammer)- Ehrdegovarchi; plural- Ehrdegovarcha (Ehrrr-deh-gou-vahrrr-khee/ Ehrrr-deh-gou-vahrrr-khah)
Iron- Bchur (Buhk-oorrr)
Steel (literally, great iron)- Korbchur (Kohrrr-buhk-oorrr)
Gold- Achangstzur (Ahkh-ahng-sst-zoorrr)
Silver- Siortur (See-ouhrrrt-oorrr)
Adamantium- Karnstenvaszurhur (Kahrrrn-stehn-vahsh-oorrr-hoorrr)
Stone- Szahr (Siz-ahrrr)
Great Hall- Korzsamschund (Kohrrrz-sahm-shoond)
Echo hit a few of my thoughts right on the head, so now instead of being orgininal, I will expand.
Quote from: 'Cap'n
I don't envision the Duerga as the surly, grunting, beer-guzzlers, I envision them more as very quiet, contemplative, slow to act, almost Zen-like in their calm, meditative, spiritual, etc.
Will have to find a balance between the industrious stint of them and their zen nature. Although zen for them may not be what we think it should be. For them (although I really like the lava rivers and metal tree idea) to reach a meditative calm perhaps the repetitive sound of the anvil or a huge steam machine is the environment they need to find their center.
Their nature might thrive in bustling confusion like war and machinery the way others thrive in a calm green surrounding. So the louder and busy, the more at peace they feel. Now, there has to be order to what is happening, a discernable pattern if only to them, but when they find that pattern to their surroundings then they are at ease.
To us it would like like complete confusion and turmoil but to them the harmonic rythms of the sites and sounds are as pleasant to them as a bird chirping is to us.
Statues or melting...hmmmm.
Maybe that is how offspring come about. Melting down the deads armor and using it to create new. Since the armor is the cradle of life it would be right to assume that some knowledge or skill could be passed on through the armor to the next to wear it.
There needs to be set tradition on how the armor's metal is passed on then. The person alive could give it to somebody or there is a bidding war on it or a guild thing or even passed through a maze of relatives.
So if a great craftsman died, who would get the armor to start a new life that will be preinstalled with skill. It would still have to be nurtured and there are those that reject the given trade that was expected with the armor.
It cannot be reworn ever, although there is always the great legend of one who shedded his original armor and took that on of a king and brough them out of darkness. So I think that only the kings armor is saved in a statue state in case of future need of a hero. To further justify that, kings cannot be forced, they are always chosen out of the ranks of the masses. When a new king is needed, ritual helps choose. So once a king dies, his armor cannot be worn since nobody is ever created to be king. Yet another chance for legend/myth. Stolen armor melted down....who has it?
Concerning the language - you will need words every language needs - agreement/disapproval, passage of time, and basic actions, also exclamations to make them lively.
yes, no, basic time units, walk, run, work, *laughter*, help!, to the arms!
To comment on Strolen's note about how thundering noise and chaos could be their vision of harmony, I'd say only as long as all the machines work right...one out-of-tune beat, or missed action would spoil it, for their vision of order will not tolerate such entropic elements - thus they will be able to detect a defective machine very fast, as it does not SOUND right, and an unwanted visitior running along their metal walkways would certainly cause such disharmonic notes too - what is he but a grain of sand in the gears of a perfect city?
With the notes being carried around the city - perhaps that could replace phone lines - pipes condutive to sound being beaten with a hammer, morse-code like. Replaces war drums quite well.
concerning their music - even the 'fleshy' dwarves in my campaign like to use the naturally resonating metal and stone structures of their homes to enhance the effect of their song - on one of their feasts, they entered the town square, paved with metal, all in their metal boots, stomping to the rhythm of the song.
The whole city could actually be constructed to carry the song from a certain place, of feast or worship, to the farthest reaches of the caverns, as to enhance the prayer (or it could be a warning to others: when you can hear the song, you have come too close!) They could have weapons based on sound actually - war horns to shatter city walls, or smaller versions to turn knights in full plate into nothing but strawberry jelly...not that it would be a problem for them to use their power over metal to strip him of his arms and armour and have him naked and humbled go home! The other alternative could be fire-based armament - two dwarves, one carrying a barrel and the other one holding a pipe? Let's smash them, shall we? (in a tunnel, there is nowhere to run to from a flame-thrower!)
Knowledge/ Lore
I wanted to elaborate the knowledge storing bit - it is both fitting for the race and good for the game.
It will give them something to care about besides work, and improve on the idea that they treasure wisdom and knowledge - so, when a youngster fumbles up, he might be taken to the 'library', and shown a set of glowing runes, forever spinning 'do you see what great Dhuwwyrtzeranh has written two millenia ago? And it still hold true! So remember it lad, and err no more!
Respect where respect is due - each great deed will earn a note, and one of the greatest rewards might be to have one's life philosophy and sayings recorded, for all to see, forever. The saying hold true that one who does not have a past does not have a future...
On a metagaming level, it will give the players another reason to deal with the mysterious dwellers from the deep - knowledge. The dangerous overland transport of the records to a new locale could provide a nice plot: twenty tons of purest meteoric iron? This can make quite a few greedy eyes glow.
Another way to remember history could be to have an oral tradition, apprentice learning history word by word, three thousand years of it. The old historians would pick a successor - yet this method is too accident-prone, and I guess they would like to place their history in something more durable than a head.
they will need a cosmology too - what does the world look like, what's the point to this existence thing, and most of all - is there place for other races in this philosophy, or are they seen as more of a nuisiance?
Their weakness and utter fear would be to exist in a state of silence. For since it is within noise that they find solitude, then silence would be torturous if not deadly. And what about water and rust. Perhaps the rusting of their armor results in not only their death, but the inability to reuse it for future generations.
Communication should go beyond mere words (in noise they find harmony right?). Such things as snapping fingers, clapping hands, rubbing their forearms, stomping their feet could be ways to speak. Also, quick and sudden movements would show anger, while slower rhythmic gestures convey a more calm attitude. Hey. . . they could even have special tools they have developed for carrying on conversations.
Perhaps after making a new armor the Duerga must give a portion of himself to breath life in it's 'child'. That which is given is lost forever.
Also, as monkeys socially pick fleas and ticks from their kin, so too do the Duerga, but instead of bugs they polish and oil oneanother.
Imagine the noise a full army would create as it gloriously marched into battle. The approach of thousands of armored ghost-like men on strange, large and loud war machines would shake fear in the most hardened veteran. Would they hurl themselves with catapults? Maybe they have specially designed impliments that are worn: blades that they pull off and throw, spiked helmets for charging. Do they have special machines designed with magnets to retrieve the fallen off of the battlefield.
As for communication, they exist in a subterranian environment. I would think they would be communicating via a vibration/ or code system.. like morse code. Thus their speaking to each other would be like a moan to most people, and their normal speach (to other races) would be looooonnnnngg annnnnnnddddd diiissssstinnnnnnctiiiiivvvee. Such a method would allow for verbal communication and for communication through rock.
Perhaps they have several forms of communication, each used as appropriate. So you might have a humanesk tongue, a vibrational language, a click/ tic/tat code language, and so on.
Maybe their music would be more like Whale songs, each clan has a basic tune, with each family having a subtune, and maybe an individual a sequence. A community's song, would be a symphony... with each clan's song harmonized and adding to the whole.
I would also give them a passive sonar like ability. Why use light under the earth when sound is a much better medium for the environment. This allows them to 'know' the area they are in.
Clans and families would be distinguished by styles of 'armor' and helms.
In death, their people would be recycled. Their funeral pyre would be a forge's heat. (If their is an organic body there, it is just another impurity to burn off from the purity of iron).
Perhaps everything except the helmet. These would be kept in the hall of wisdom for each clan. A huge wall filled with helmets as far as you can see in the dim lights. The helmet would store the being's knowledged, so with appropriate skills (and the helmet's preparation), the wisdom of the elders could be consulted. (And if organics are present, I am sure the skull is inside that helmet). The summoning of ancestoral spirits through their helmet may be the only clerical magic they perform...
Traitors have their helms melted into ingots, and placed in a vault of shame... never to be used again.
More Duerga Language
Yes- Bech (Beh-kh)
No- Uhrn (Oo-rrrn)
To walk/move- Kvurndesz (Kvoorrrn-desh)
To run- Dormvenesz (Dourrrm-vehn-ehsh)
To see- Durmszesz (Doorrrm-shesh)
To speak- Vahrbenechesz (Vahrrr-behnehkh-esh)
To hear/listen- Rundechesz (Rrroon-dekh-esh)
Laughter- A tinny, rattling noise. Best written as 'Tang-tang-tang' or something like that. (To laugh- Turhngentesz {Toorrrn-gehn-tesh})
To help- Arbchuerachesz (Ahrrr-bukh-ware-ahkh-esh)/ 'Help!'- Arbchueracheszun! (Ahrrr-bukh-ware-ahkh-esh-oon)
To be- Buesz (Bwesh)
Time: I'm thinking something very regulated, maybe, since we're going with a theme of sound here, shifts marked by some sort of community clock, like a churchbell that rings at noon.
So...Individual units? Maybe by the time it takes to create something, like the smallest unit is an ingot, the next largest a sheet, et cetera...
I like the helmet wall idea. It fits better with the importance placed on armor.
Since they're pretty much sheathed in metal, water would be their enemy. I mean, they would rust, first of all, which would be very unharmonious, and, eventually, deadly. Second, they're denser than water. It would be like a knight in platemail trying to swim. They would sink strait to the bottom.
But that brings up another question: Would they drown? Do they even breath air?
You- furi (foorrr-ee)
Me/I- kuri (koorrr-ee)
He/she/it- arni (ahrrrn-ee)
We/us- kurna (koorrrn-ah)
They/them- arna (ahrrrn-ah)
You (formal)- urnzfuri (oohrrrnz-foorrr-ee)
He/she/it (formal)- urnzarni (oohrrrnz-ahrrrn-ee)
We/us (formal)- urnzkurna (oohrrrnz-koorrrn-ah)
They/them (formal)- urnzarna (oohrrrnz-ahrrrn-ah)
The formal pronouns are used to refer to people of greater age, rank, or those unfamiliar to you. It is considered impolite to use the formal pronouns when referring to those younger, of lesser rank, or familiar people.
Maybe that is how offspring come about. Melting down the deads armor and using it to create new. Since the armor is the cradle of life it would be right to assume that some knowledge or skill could be passed on through the armor to the next to wear it.
There needs to be set tradition on how the armor's metal is passed on then. The person alive could give it to somebody or there is a bidding war on it or a guild thing or even passed through a maze of relatives.
So if a great craftsman died, who would get the armor to start a new life that will be preinstalled with skill. It would still have to be nurtured and there are those that reject the given trade that was expected with the armor.
That's good. I like the idea of passing along certain skills through the melted down armor.
I don't know about the selling or auction part. They don't seem like that much of a money people, know what I mean?
Where does the rubble from all the digging go? Duerga holdfasts and fortresses and such might have great piles of slag and rubble lying outside. Or, perhaps, the Duerga use these piles as a defense mechanism of sorts, building low walls of rubble outside their fortress gates.
Here's the canon on the Duerga so far...
-Armor-encased dwarf-like folk, who live underground in metal strongholds.
-Zen-like, meditative approach to work, consider the greatest ideal to be complete harmony. Find harmony in constant work.
-Steel gardens with trees of metal and rivers of magma for when they need some time off.
-Their cities are very inhospitable to soft races.
-They reproduce by melting down the armor of the dead and forging a new armor from it, which also passes along valuable skills. The helmet, however, is kept, and placed in a temple of knowledge, where Duerga go to commune with their ancestors.
-Water is not their friend. They are denser than it, and it rusts them, making them squeak very unharmoniously.
-They have their humanlike tongue, which is communicated with voices, and language of vibrations for long range communication. Their voice tongue is spoken slowly, long, and distinctively. Their voice language also contains many claps, stomps, finger snaps, and armor clanks.
-Music is a sort of deep, droning, resonating, metal choir, sung in their metal chambers. Each clan/hold/family/whatever has their own basic song, which singers of those clans/holds/families/whatever expand upon.
-Their greatest fear is silence. Since they live in a world of vibrating communication, silence represents death and isolation.
BAM! Questions!
-Time? How do they measure it? What units?
-What enemies do they have? What allies?
-Gods? Do they worship Durgi, like I envisioned, or do they worship some impersonal Earth-force, or maybe an ideological concept?
-What are their clans? Communities? Rulers, other than the Wisest Of All?
-What is their history?
-What about their technology?
-More about their interactions with other races.
Let's see what answers we can come up with.
The rest of you should review the last two CP posts and formulate your own responses.
I am begining to see these people as the ultimate warriors/ artists/ sages. They strive for person perfection and are coming close to achieving it. Something like an Early Period Samurai.
They may have some form of cultural smuggness, as they know they are superior in all so many ways. And while it would be rude to gloat, they will just assume that everyone else is inferior.
If these people are nearly immortal, not having organic parts and are made of metal, how do they die? Does the spirit just go away if it is banged upon (as the spirit of the attacker would do damage to them, metaphysically rather than physically). Maybe their God keeps score, and collects those who are inferior enough to have taken X amount of damage.
Perhaps their spirits are initially bound to a crystal in the armor... break the crystal kill the Durga. This is unsatisfactory to me, but it is a thought to throw out there.
-Time? How do they measure it? What units?
Clockwork adaption of any time system the surface dwellers might have. They might not have a time system, they are nearly immortal... they could live in the constant now.
Their time could be a click, like a second. This comes from a clockwork mechanism used at bellows. Wind it up, and it clicks down and blows at the flames.
-What enemies do they have? What allies?
Dependent on game world.
-Gods? Do they worship Durgi, like I envisioned, or do they worship some impersonal Earth-force, or maybe an ideological concept?
I like the impersonal Earth-force, but that is just my taste. This can allow them to have a philosphical faith, rather than a religion based on power and reward (like most D20 clerics).
-What are their clans? Communities? Rulers, other than the Wisest Of All?
Hmmmm. Needs thought
-What is their history?
Long ago, these people must of been organic. Some archetypal figure, The First, took the steps to become the first one.... a spirit and mind embeded in Armor. Thus others since then have followed his example.
(As per his reason, perhaps just the quest to be perfect is enough).
He is their Christ, their Confussious, their Merlin, and their Miyamoto Musashi. He is the one they have based their existance on.
CP should legendize this, as he is much better at making things mythic than I.
-What about their technology?
While they could have superior technology, they probably need less in the way of technolgy. Fewer needs, fewer drives to create new technology. They are probably the best craftsmen on the planet, in the metals department.
-More about their interactions with other races.
The Elves/ Forrest Spirits are probably scared to heck of these people. They are the anti-elves- cold inhuman spirits bound in metal.
New- What do these people think about Golems? The Durga are practically freeborn Golems, rather than those made as slaves to mad wizards.
Despite MoonHunter's intent to make them worship an earth-force, I'd rather have them revere a more personnalized concept, perhaps the First One, or the being that gave life to the first one, or helped him make the transition from flesh to metal.
Ad life - their spirit is bound to the metal, and it is the force animating it, thus shattering their physical frames would either harm the spirit, or force it to abandon a body that has lost enough semblance to a humanoid.
The rust could be considered disharmonic because if their bodies are not perfectly in tune, so is the spirit - perhaps they could be killed not by doing a lot of overall damage, but by powerful blows struck in succession that overbear their personal harmony - this means that sticking him full of arrows would be pretty senseless, but striking a few blows with a maul in swift succession could prove fatal...
The would measure time precisely I think, because all technological processes must have an exact timing, then, to improfe effectivity and measure productivity, and because some things must be done at a certain time when it does not disturb the tapestry/symphony/tune of the earth - both music and machines need perfect timing.
They could hear the heartbeat and pulse of the earth itself, and measure their time by that.
Like the WoD Vampires, they could learn the lineage by heart, and those their true family - Bhrangwarst who was made by Thransivarst who was made by Broghold who was made by... I am Rangorodrun, 3725 hammers descended from the First One, the lord of crafters...
I want to keep Moon's Christ-like First One. It is revered as the first to make the transition from soft, unharmonious flesh to metal.
Maybe it was led by their god. Or perhaps it was merely searching for perfection.
It then led the rest of the Duerga on a journey through many trials and tribulations from the Source Cave (or something like that) to the Land, so that they might seek perfection.
The first, or one of the first, Duerga fortresses/holds/homes/cities was Szahrnevarbenarch, the Mountain of the Wise.
On their way, the Duerga were pursued by enemies. Maybe it is demons, or possibly Silence (their greatest fear).
An unrelated idea: Punishment for crimes (which are rare) is conducted by tossing the Duerga into a sealed, insulated place, blocking out all outside communication, including vibrations, putting them into silence. The length of silence is based on the crime. This is used for all crimes save those of traitors. Traitors are melted down, including the helmet, into ingots of slag.
Sounds good
What about personizing Silence into a more tangible form - a demon called Entropy?
So before the founding of the city, there was an Exodus-like flight from their enemies?
Quote from: 'CaptainPenguin'
On their way, the Duerga were pursued by enemies. Maybe it is demons, or possibly Silence (their greatest fear).
Interesting thought: how can one be pursued by Silence? Simply make a noise, and silence is gone. I see two possiblities:
- An actual being/monster/demon, that creates an aura of silence around itself. Could be a friendly spirit, that wants you to feel the peace of nature, etc. But maybe it is a terrible creature, that can feed on your friends just in the next room, and you never hear them screaming... The monster may be still around.
- They were escaping some other kind of Silence, perhaps the silence in their hearts, or a buddhism-like quiet philosophy, their people were 'falling prey' to. Or their ancestors have done something terrible in the past, and their way to forget has become their lifestyle (might be also the reason, why they don't show their faces...). Anyway, the Silence has firmly become a part of their legends.
Note: what would a spell called 'Silence' do with these mighty warriors? I think they don't let others know of this weakness (not that they would speak at length with anyone of the lesser races).
As for their relation with golems, they might be quite suspicious of them, but might accept a rogue golem into their society (providing it is a high-quality one!). More problematic would be relations to a wizard, that creates such golems. If those are simple tools, then no problem. But someone seeking to create a similarly perfect being, as the Duerga want to become one day, may get into trouble fast...
On the other hand, the views on golems may be subject to their religion.
They were escaping some other kind of Silence, perhaps the silence in their hearts,
I like the 'silence in their hearts' bit. It gives them an interesting spirituality.
'Do not give in to the silence in your heart, young Clangorangtzenbacher.'
Their god could be the Universal Hum, a force so all-pervasive that it's almost not there, but constantly driving out the Silence with its sub-sound.
But the 'silence monster' bit is also good, in it's own way. It gives them a sort of 'Things man was not meant to know' feel. Like, if you go to them, you must beware of this horrible man-eating god, surrounded by silence, that follows them for whatever reason.
So before the founding of the city, there was an Exodus-like flight from their enemies?
Yes. In their legends and ancient history, they were led by the First One in a great exodus, driven forth by the Silence, whatever it may be.
Have they dug too deep? heh heh heh
Actually, most mages who need to speak/sing to cast their spells would fear silence a LOT. What could have pissed him off this much? 'Stop hammering my tooth, stoopid can-like things! That's not fer mining!'
Other than that, they are strongly technological, ordered and vibrant... thus, entities of chaos, life, entropy and silence all whould find them quite annoying...
One of their plights could be to discover the perfect harmony that will pervade all, merge with God - like some attribute he is missing (the perfect divine sound needing a perfect earthly sound), and drive silence away once and for all, bouncing back from the edges of the universe, and resonating with every soul...
Just an oddball thought - I was playing Battletech lately - want to give the Duerga 'Mechs to teach their enmies a lesson? Something between a steam automaton and a golem, with a buzzsaw attached for felling trees and knights, or a drill for digging up ore or crushing city walls...
who said all Duerga had to be THE SAME SIZE?
You could make a small one, an eternal child, or a huge one, six to twenty feet... 'meet my big brother ... Brazgwyverach, would you come?' *THUMP THUMP THUMP* 'YES?!'
heh. never dare to step on a dwarf again, for the next one might step on you...
They could hear the heartbeat and pulse of the earth itself, and measure their time by that.
I just reread that line, and it hit me. This is a great way to keep time for subterrestrial beings, who know little of day and night/ seasons. It also makes their time keeping very different. (Though maybe the year is exactly the same, as the heartbeast measures the cycle of spin)
My original click of a forge engine (a clockwork arrangement that pumps air to keep the heat) could be based on that (one click one heartbeat). Such clockwork devices would be available to these metal experts. However, their quest of personal perfection, will get them to focus inward. That quest, plus their near immortal age, should slow their technological growth. They have no real 'needs'. Every craft is an art to perfect, rather than a job to get down. While they should have a few cool gizmos (Chinese repeating crossbows and such), they should not be spending effort in making things, when there is their self to perfect.
The First One
There was once a time when the Duerga were as fleshy and soft as the other races who trod upon the face of the earth. Their crafts and skills were guided by the Great Architect. Their skill with metal, and the construction of automata, and machines grew many times beyond the ken of man or elf. It was the golden time of the race.
Then, inexplicably, the Great Architect and his guiding essence, vanished. The Duerga were bereft of purpose, of leadership. It became a terrible time as tribes and clans were born of the event. Each sought an answer to what had occured, others pointed fingers and made accusations. Civil war loomed as arguements escalated into fistfights and bloodshed.
It was during this time that the First rose up from the masses of Duerga. Seemingly guided by divine power, he assumed the mantle of the King of the Duerga to save his race from a potentially devastating civil war. His kind, having never been incredibly fertile, could be wiped out by a civil war, leaving a few to linger on until death finally took them.
The King laid out the great Reason. They had strayed away from the Greater Good of the Grand Architect, and as punishment, he had turned away from them. Was this in anger, or for shame? No matter the answer, the tribes and clans must unite, and the people be made a whole again. Then, perhaps through the perfection of the arts of the Great Architect, and meditation and inner enlightenment could the Duerga be redeemed and again be seen as worthy of the Great Architect's attention.
The Demon of Silence
The King's proclamation brought many of the clans and tribes into unity and harmony, but many remained dissident. On those fell a great and terrible scourge, the Demon of Silence. It's form is unknown, but it's avenue and invitation is silence. It would come into a hold, quiet in the evening, and slaughter every Duerga it could find. Many tried to fight but were defeated, their bodies rent and their metal defiled.
The King, distraught with the death of so many of his kin, sought out the beast to do battle with it, to defeat it or die in trying. The King was brought face to face with the terrible beast, and defeated it with little effort. He sang the Lay of the Duerga a deep and reverberating lament for the suffering of his people. He swung his hammer to keep the beat of the song alive in his heart. The steady ring of steel against steel and the sonorus voice of the king banished the Demon of Silence.
The King would later admonish those who were dissident, and propigated the use of sound to hold the beast at bay. Soon, the Deurga holds, fortified with great armoring rang with constant sound. Machines were devised to reduce the amount of manual labor required. Great steam driven pistons and wheel drove giant iron bells and hammers, creating the cacaphony of the Duerga.
The King eventually perished as is the way of mortal things. Amazingly, his essence was passed on through the great suit of boilerplate armor he wore. Did the King still live, or was he something else? Soon, the faces of the Duerga faded from memory, replaced with the intricately carved helmets and faceplates of their armor and the deep reverberation of their slow voices.
Some Duerga claim that the change was yet another punishment from the Great Architect, that they had thwarted their first pennance, and had been afflicted with another until they learned the nature of their folly. Others claimed that this was the will of the Architect, to become more like him, more metal and mind rather than flesh and impulse.
The Wisest of All reminded the Duerga, clan and tribe, that such answers could be found in contemplation of the Great Architect, and in the perfection of mind, body, and skill. Industry and progress, innovation and creation were the ways of the Architect, and thus each of his children must seek that perfection in all things. Perhaps some day, the truth will be made known to the Duerga, to the fate of their lone deity, and to their fate as well.
Applications of Time
Ancient methods of time would very likely resemble that of surface dwellers, but would be hopelessly, and uselessly antique to the Duerga.
The rhythems of the city, such as the steam driven hammers constantly ringing could be used to tell time. Perhaps within every so many strokes, an alternate stroke is added. The hamer rings once per second, the second, bronze hammer, with a deeper tone, rings every hundreth strike of the lead hammer. A third hammer rings once after every hundreth stroke of the bronze hammer. Two words come to mind, metric time.
Just some ideas I had.
I'm thinking about whether Silence should actually be a demon or not. I do like the applications of time, though. I'm not sure about the First legend, though.
Here is a direction that could work for them.
This is an ancestor worshiping culture. They're big thing was that when they were dieing they under went certain rites to ensure they became ghosts. These ghosts were then granted clockwork automata to 'wear'. Similar uninhabited automata were used as guardians, servitors and soldiers. The higher Status in life, the more complex and powerful the body they were granted to wear.
The greatest of their Holds (where the campaign was set) were massive, huge cities on hundreds of levels. They grow Mushrooms and other crops in massive hydroponic gardens, they had lifts and trains (more monorails.) Powered through harnessing a gate to the Positive Energy Plane to create free and plentiful energy.
Their aesthetics were very babylonian especially in their statuary.
However all their weapons of war Giant Clockwork robots, massive catapults, etc, availed them little when the Elves came, much of the countryside around was slagged and the hold was eventually cracked, which was when pumped in poison gas and killed every living thing inside.
Okay so you could take two options with this...
1) There are still living people supporting the Clockwork Duerga.
2) The last living Duerga died a while ago. It could of been a plague or something else. Now, only the best of them live on, as the clockworks.
This view sort of cleans up some of the issues we had with them, but it opens up other issues.
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? Responses (11)-11
It is almost a shame to even consider these being Dwarves or Dwarf substitutes. They are a totally different race that have some vauge echos with the psuedo-tolkien creatures we have come to call Dwarves. In fact, if you did not mention Dwarves, very few people would consider them such.
A very inspiring thread, Captain! Keep up the good work. Now I just have to think of a Duerga as a Player Character...
See, here's one of the reasons that I oppose moving some of these Idea Scroll threads to the main page-
It doesn't work like this.
It's clunky, hard to read... People are inclined to skip over the other comments rather than join an actual conversation. A thread is just that- a thread. It has flow. This... Does not. Somehow.
I dunno', nevermind.
Yet most people never read them in the forum either. This way they become useful and art of the record.
Except for the side comments, on the thread itself (like these), reading the scrolls are no harder than reading down the posts in a forum. (Okay, so this does not have the pretty picture for each member, but do we really need those?)
These side comments are for those comments on the thread itself. Normally these are the really short 'Good jobs' and 'this sucks' with a vote. They are quite skipable (hence the reason the comments thing collapses).
Sure this post is long. So where a number of posts in the forum. So is World Building 102. So are a number of really good item, location, and system posts. If size was a deterant, then we should chuck all the long ones and go back to writing one paragraph item descriptions.
As you will, then.
These are almost not Dwarves. I guess they have Dwarfness (short underground craftsmen warriors), but you have to look for it.
Yet, that aside, they are quite cool. Tiny Acroyers.
In the original myths, dwarves were often not the anthropomorphized creatures we remember from Snow White or The Hobbit. They were spirits of the earth, elementals.
The Duerga are as much dwarves as any other variations on the theme.
As a side note, 'Duergr' (The last 'r' is silent) was the Old Norse word for dwarf.
A very good and complete submission, especially with the scroll entries. Another buried treasure brought to light!
This excellent submission could greatly benefit from a new, summarizing submission bringing in the details from the comments.


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subset: commoncrawl


text:
They are willing to travel all the way to Transworld and set up an amazing floor but they won't show in their own back yard?.....I don't understand the logic but I know zilch about the industry in the pro world.....I just wondered because every year I think about going to MHC, I always hope ScareFactory is going to show and every year it's the same thing....I don't see myself going to Transworld because of the distance but I'd do the drive to MHC....I guess I should have went the year they had tours of the factory....Are they just too busy making props now that they can't do MHC?....ZR
No announcement yet.
Why Doesn't Scarefactory show?
new posts
Why Doesn't Scarefactory show?Tags: None
Senior Membermember
- Nov 2008
- 750
MHC isn't a big buyers show. Most people attending are home haunters and actors who don't spend much. Simply put, it'd be a waste of their time.Zach Wiechmann
sad but true
MHC just doesn't seem to bring the buyers in, not sure why. Its a great show. Its the chicken or the egg thing for me. MHC was my first ever tradeshow in haunting and I blew $5,000 my first time as a home haunter. But that year Dark Raven was there and so was Scarefactory. But no big prop vendors have showed since that I am aware of. I love the show though, but you cant buy from them if they don't show up. But then again, could they even fill your order at this time of the year. Probably not. But if you miss Dead Acres you are crazy!!Joe Phillips
The Shallow Grave
Winter Haven FL
Scarefactory and some of the other big guys work on production schedules and can't guarantee delivery of large props between June and September. They need more lead time, which is why they take orders at IAAPA and Transworld. Most of the large haunt owners who make major prop purchases do so at TW so they are assured to receive their orders for the upcoming season. We will have several large prop manufacturers at MHC this year and Unit 70 will be open on the Friday night tour.
I think you'll see more props at MHC this year than ever before.
We didn't start MHC to be in competition with TW, we're here to satisfy a need for actors, makeup artists and smaller haunts with tighter budgets. Many haunt owners bring their actors to MHC for the education and workshops. Our classes are priced within reach of these groups ($85 for five classes). Our tours and parties are very popular too.
Thanks for your comments.
Kelly Collins
The Midwest Haunters Convention
Thanks for the info....It makes sense from a time perspective why they wouldn't show.....I guess business is good enough from Transworld to keep busy enough the rest of the year, they don't need the opportunity MHC offers for more sales....That's a good thing I guess.....MHC definitely looks like an amazing show I hope to see one of these years....Thanks again....ZR
Senior Membermember
- Nov 2008
- 504
You aren't missing out on ScareFactory not showing. I know after horror stories and other malarkey that they have caused, as well as poor quality welds and terrible customer service, you'd be better to spend a few extra hundred dollars on a quality company like Unit 70, DCProps, etc.
Originally posted by NightmareAftershockLLC View PostYou aren't missing out on ScareFactory not showing. I know after horror stories and other malarkey that they have caused, as well as poor quality welds and terrible customer service, you'd be better to spend a few extra hundred dollars on a quality company like Unit 70, DCProps, etc.
I have heard the stories and I have never had them, call me lucky I guess. But the reason that you don't see any of the big guy at MHCis that they would be hard pressed to deliver by October. I was talking to Gore Galore today about my order from TW and they said that they would be cutting off large items sales soon because they would not be able to get it delivered before October. Cynthia also said that they are just to busy to even try to make it to the show.Phatman
Senior Membermember
- Mar 2009
- 953
Heard the stories too...
Have had Slayer on the Pediment, the Impaler,Tombstone Reaper, Corpselator, Floating Reaper, Scissor Serpeant, and several smaller pieces. Not one broken weld. Not one missed beat in many years except for a control going bad. Guess we are both "just lucky" Austind.
Put another order in with them this year.
Wicked Farmer
yeah but......
Did you ever get your stuff from them??Joe Phillips
The Shallow Grave
Winter Haven FL


text:
Difference between revisions of "Applications and libraries/Robotics"
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This page contains a list of libraries and tools in a certain category. For a comprehensive list of such pages, see Applications and libraries.
- Haskell for Vision and Robotics
- Frob is an Embedded Domain Specific Language for controlling robots. It is built using the principals of Functional Reactive Programming, as developed by Conal Elliott for the Fran animation system. The current incarnation of Frob is part of the Yampa FRP system.


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By MARTIGA LOHN?
Associated Press
ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) – Minnesota's top revenue official says a tax deal with Wisconsin is probably off for next year over Minnesota's demand to be reimbursed for lost revenue.
Minnesota Revenue Commissioner Myron Frans told The Associated Press Thursday that he doesn't expect any more negotiations before Monday. That's the deadline for an agreement to revive tax reciprocity between the neighboring states for 2013 taxes.
The impasse means that residents who live in one state and work in the other will still have to file income tax returns in both states.
About 60,000 Wisconsin residents work in Minnesota, and about 20,000 Minnesotans work in Wisconsin.
Wisconsin Revenue Secretary Richard Chandler said in a column released Thursday that Minnesota's demand to be paid as much as $15 million is "unreasonable."


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Goran Tomasevic / Reuters
A Syrian Air Force fighter plane fires a rocket during an air strike in the village of Tel Rifaat, about 20 miles north of Aleppo, on August 9, 2012.
Goran Tomasevic / Reuters
A Free Syrian Army fighter fires an anti-aircraft gun as a Syrian Air Force fighter bomber fires rockets in the village of Tel Rifaat on August 9, 2012.
Reuters reports — The sandy color of the Syrian air force jet was visible as it circled overhead. Then a screaming nosedive and the orange flames of firing rockets on the farming village of Tel Rifaat.
Reuters journalist Hadeel Al Shalchi saw the jet make at least a dozen rounds of the village of a few thousand people, 35km north of Aleppo city, firing missiles and mounted machine guns.
Three rebel fighters fruitlessly fired an old anti-aircraft gun and a rifle at the speeding plane.
Villagers panicked - some tried to escape on motorbikes while other crammed belongings and bread into three-wheeled vans. They were unsure of where was safe to go. Read the full story.
See more photos by Goran Tomasevic of the fighting in northern Syria
On Wednesday Syrian troops pushed even farther into the key city of Aleppo where rebels are running short on much-needed supplies. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
After months of protests and violent crackdowns, a look back at the violence that has overtaken the country.


text:
Hi, welcome to GTA Wiki. Thanks for contributing to the Ryder (mission) page, and for taking interest in the wiki. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything, or as alternatives, leave a post on a forum, or refer to the Help pages. -- Spaceeinstein (Talk) 18:26, January 20, 2011
NC/NC Debate and Ban
Hi, Collie. I have been banned from the Alt. Hist. wiki, possibly for a good reason, but I still think the terms are a bit extreme. To be quick about it, I noticed a blog post by FirstStooge (who I have never met personally, to be honest) that celebrated Eid Al-Fitr. I am a devout Christian, and it is my personal religious belief that Islam is a religion of hatred that directly clashes with Western society, progress, and American values. With that being said, as I went back through what I missed in the past couple of days, I noticed that I had skipped over this post, which, to me, was a bit too much.
Noticing this, I at once felt that I had to stick up for my values. After all, to me, when he started chanting "Allah Akbar" at the end, I felt this was a heresy and I ought to stand up for what is right (in my eyes).
Seeing that this might be a way to open a conversation (and even learn a bit more about Islam myself), I posted what I felt about Islam. Whilst waiting for FS' response, a multitude of people (mostly Scrawland Scribblescratch and Monster Pumpkin) got into a bit of a flam war, for which I did no real part to calm myself down. I will admit, at this point I crossed the line, but I felt that I was being attacked, not just my ideals being attacked (a quote to prove this is: I'm asking you not to be an ass. - CrimsonAssassain)
At this point, Scraw came onto Chat, where he asked me to stop, and I posted on last thought, after which, I figured, I could either wait for FS to provide a response, or decide to give up on the conversation altogether. I ended the conversation, and then thought "That is that!"
When I logged in, later in the evening, I found that I couldn't edit anything! It turns out, Fedelede banned me for 2 weeks. Here is what he said: (Inserting false information: NC/NC violation, flamebait, Islamophobia/religious discrimination). Here are my defenses for the charges.
- NC/NC - I didn't bring up the topic. He did. Furthermore, by him bringing up a topic like Eid al Fitr, when 69 people were killed on that very day this year, it kind of lit my fuse. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57597984/iraq-car-bombings-leave-69-dead-amid-eid-al-fitr-celebrations/
- Flambait - I was simply looking for an intellectual conversation with FS about our religions. The flamebait really began once others decided to chirp in and start saying what they thought - although they know limited facts about the situation. Whereas my posts were thought out, full length ideas, their ideas were a few lines of attacks on me (indirect or even direct).
- Islamophobia/religious discrimination - This is the most absurd accusation of all. Dictionary.com defines Islamophobia as "Extreme or irrational fear of all Islamic persons". Now, you may or may now know a ton about me, but for me to be afraid of someone over the internet, they need to know where I live, what I look like, how old I am, etc. Seeing as I had never spoken to FS before, I have no fear of him. I also do not have an irrational fear of all Muslims. I do realize that, sadly, a number of the have been "led astray" since their birth, and therefore, I do not fear all Muslims (also, fear is no way to live your life.)
- As for Discrimination, I have the definition of discrimination right here - "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex." What does this mean? Well, I take it to mean that if I were to exclude FS from some event, I would be discriminating against him. But, like I have said, I never interacted with him, so I cannot possibly actually discriminate in the real sense of the word.
Collie, I understand that you are a busy kind of person, but I would just like to ask a few minutes of your time. I actively participate in a number of communities on the AltHist Wiki (PMII, RDE, Yellowstone, WWIII, and more). I have a large number of friends, who would vouch for my overall character.
I think you could ask almost any member of the community I have come in contact with (maybe with FS being the exception) and they would tell you that I am a cool guy. Ask Greg, Feudal, Edboy, Willster, UglyTurtle, Local Mafia Boss, Ratc/CaptinStark (I know, he hardly counts), Imp, Kogasa, Viva, ToB2, Octivian, Eip. or CourageousLife, and I am pretty sure they would all attest to my general character.
What it came down to, for me, is that he is celebrating a holiday when Muslim extremists killed 69, out of 671 during all of Ramadan. It just struck me as a bit out of touch, but I grew disrespectful. I have asked FS to come on chat on his wiki with my, so I may apologize, but as of yet he hasn't replied (understandably). Please consider what I have said.
Thank You, Reximus55 06:55, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


text:
Discussions about eggcorns and related topics
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Chris -- 2018-04-11
Heard on a news broadcast.
Well, why do you find this striking?
Right – I've used this one (legitimately, I believe) all my life. Heyday indicates a period of great popularity, success, or power – arguably this period could conceivably span only a single day. Alternatively, and closely related, it can also indicate a prime….
I'm not so sure. The usage "having a heyday" doesn't draw properly on the dictionary definition of a heyday being a period of one's greatest strength, vigor or prosperity. Instead, this usage seems to draw upon the definition of "hey" meaning exultation (but I don't think the "day" part is necessarily taken literally every time). So, when I hear people say that someone is "having a heyday with" something, they seem to say that person is "exultant in his opportunity to attack" it. (I also don't see "having a heyday" listed among the idioms in the dictionaries I've checked). Overall, this is leaning toward eggcorn usage in my book.
I could be wrong, but for now I'll defend the viewpoint of this being an eggcorn until further evidence refutes it. (Or, as Peter Forster has pointed out: we eggcorn defenders are sometimes just masters of self-deception!)
BUT, it occurs to me that the intended use may have been more nearly approximated by the expression "having a field day," depending on the context in which the phrase was employed – e.g., if they were reporting that "the media had a field day…" to indicate a high level of media frenzy surrounding an event. Perhaps they were initially headed for "field," subsequently drifted toward "hay" by association, but inadvertently tripped over an eggcorn en route, landing them squarely in "hey" via substitution…
Nicely argued Techwreck. The expression "having a field day" does seem to be involved here in the capacity you suggest. That's really a brilliant observation. (Plus, I think it would have helped if lex had provided more comments in his original post. All we can do is guess). So, if the intended eggcorn is "having a hayday,"—as inspired by "having a field day," then here are a few examples:
Masters of Deceit | MetaFilterLess because of the occasional bear wandering through town and more because of troupes of ravens having a hayday looking for some leftover jojos. ...
www.metafilter.com/60945/Masters-of-Deceit – 40k – Cached – Similar pages
NEOHAPSIS – Peace of Mind Through Integrity and Insightvalidity to this claim the major media would be having a hayday. The fact is, we are reading second-hand information, of fir-sthand people obviously …
archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2004-11/0329.html – 10k – Cached – Similar pages
Comments on: London: On the mediaMeanwhile, online agencies/outlets are having a hayday by bringing in the news as it happens (I saw this with the ferry accident, too). ...
www.fullstop.ca/blog/index.php/2005/070 … acks/feed/ – 6k – Cached – Similar pages
Things that make ya go…hmmmmm? – TopixYou should see the forums on Keith Richards, Holy cow are people ever having a hayday with this story, they either beleive it or they don't…. for the most …
www.topix.net/forum/who/johnny-depp/T8RU5HAFTDFUS4612 – 50k – Cached – Similar pages
Last edited by jorkel (2007-05-11 14:15:36)
Ken Lakritz had an interesting post on "hayday" back in the early days of the Forum:
#173 Commentary by Ken Lakritz , 2005/03/12 at 9:29 pm
'hay day' for 'heyday.' (Also 'hayday' and 'hay-day'). This eggcorn conceptualizes people at the height of their success as engaged in harvesting. Recall the idioms, 'making hay' and 'making hay while the sun shines.' Examples-
… Hergé embraced his hay day of creative work and he, and Tintin, became
world celebrities after the war had ended.
In his hay day, a good player but he should hung up his skates 6 years ago. …
In his hay day, Mr. Ludlow was known to ingest the hash equivalent
of an ounce of marijuana in one sitting.
Pat: It sounds as if Ken's eggcorn has fundamentally different usage and imagery from the one we're discussing on this thread. Ken's eggcorn derives from "in his heyday"—and involves a harvesting imagery. The current eggcorn derives from "having a field day" and involves different imagery—either hey-based or hay-based. But thanks for pointing it out.
I didn't mean to imply that Ken Lakritz had already posted the "having a heyday" idea, and of course I never said that. But I think the occurrence of "heyday/hayday" in both threads provides a perfectly legit basis for bringing them together—if in fact any justification is necessary.
I disagree with the claim that the imagery used in the two threads is "fundamentally different." After all, the word "hay" is central to both here—that's fundamentally similar imagery. Furthermore, most uses of the word "hay" have the idea of harvesting implicit in them by definition—if you're growing grass that you don't plan to harvest, you just call it "grass."
But I want to get back to Lex's original post of "having a heyday." Is it an eggcorn? Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but I can't see how it could be. An eggcorn is a reshaping of a phonologically very similar word or phrase. What phrase is the "original" in "having a heyday"? I think Techwreck is absolutely right in her claim that "having a heyday" has been influenced by "having a field day," but there's just too big a phonological gulf between "field" and "hey" to support the eggcorn identification.
The spelling "hayday" for "heyday" might be an eggcorn, but it's one of those situations where it'd be virtually impossible to point to any given instance of the phrase and say for certain that the writer hadn't simply committed a misspelling. I think there are almost certainly people out there thinking of hay and harvesting when they say "hay day," but I'm also sure there are many people who are just getting the spelling wrong.
I think part of the reason that "having a heyday" sounds so wrong to some of us is that use of "a heyday" rather than "the heyday." In the standard uses of "heyday," the word denotes a singular moment or period, and the employment of the definite article signals that singularity. In the two balloons below, I've given the 2nd OED definition for "heyday" and then the accompanying list of examples. Note that every single example that employs an article uses "the heyday":
2. The stage or period when excited feeling is at its height; the height, zenith, or acme of anything which excites the feelings; the flush or full bloom, or stage of fullest vigour, of youth, enjoyment, prosperity, or the like. Often associated with day, and taken as the most flourishing or exalted time.
1751 SMOLLETT Per. Pic. (1779) II. lxviii. 221 Our imperious youth..was now in the heyday of his blood.
1768 STERNE Sent. Journ. (1775) 86 (Hotel at Paris), I was interrupted in the hey-day of this soliloquy, with a voice.
Ibid. 135 (Maria, Moulines) To travel it through the sweetest part of France{em}in the hey-day of the vintage.
1807-8 W. IRVING Salmag. (1824) 143 In the good old times that saw my aunt in the hey-day of youth. 1824 SCOTT St. Ronan's iii, In his heyday he had a small estate, which he had spent like a gentleman. 1831 LYTTON Godolphin 38 In the flush and hey~day of youth, of gaiety, and loveliness.
1839 LONGFELLOW Hyperion IV. ii, The heyday of life is over with him.
1873 SYMONDS Grk. Poets vii. 232 In the bloom and heyday of the young world's prime.
1877 MRS. OLIPHANT Makers Flor. xiv. 346 He was no more than thirty-six, in the hey-day of his powers.
Judging from the foregoing list, the use of "a heyday" may feel a bit wrong because it seems to imply that one may enjoy more than one heyday.
So is "having a heyday" poor usage? I don't know. At the moment, I think it's too rare to be considered "standard." "Having a field day" gets 190k ghits, but "having a hey day" gets only 2820 and "having a heyday" gets 1020. (The fact that the two-word version "hey day" gets more hits may support the idea that people are influenced by the two-word "field day.") On the other hand, books.google.com returns 217 hits for "having a heyday," and among those are a use by the acclaimed novelist Ivan Doig in his novel Prairie Nocturne and another one by the philosopher George Boas in his Rationalism in Greek Philosophy.
Even if "having a heyday" isn't an eggcorn, there may be something a little eggcornish in the development of "heyday" in English. No one knows where the phrase comes from, but in its earliest instances it seems to refer to "a state of exaltation or excitement of the spirits or passions," according to the OED. There isn't any reference to a period of time here, and the OED states further that "the second element does not seem to have been the word day, though in later use often identified with it." In other words, the occurrence of the element "-day" in the word was probably just a coincidence and it may have helped change the word's meaning. So our current definition of "heyday" may be an example of a "hidden eggcorn."
A last note in this already lengthy post. In recent decades, usage commentators have noted that the phrase "salad days"—which used to mean a period of youthful inexperience—now seems increasingly to mean one's "heyday." It's interesting that all these vaguely agricultural phrases involving the word "day" seem to be influencing each other.
I guess it would be safe to say that "field day" originated independently of "heyday," and it would only be a matter of time before the notion of "hay" got between the two concepts to exert a latent or hidden eggcorn influence. In the midst of all this, there seems to be an idiom blend aspect to contend with as well. Here's the sequence I suspect…
...in one's heyday—original usage
Having a field day—original usage (probably not as old as "heyday")
hayday—eggcorn of heyday
Having a hay day—idiom blend adopting the eggcorn
Having a heyday—hypercorrection of idiom blend: removing the eggcorn
Perhaps this is a bit off topic, but somewhere in Wittgenstein"s Philosophical Investigations he observes how peculiar it would be to say, "He momentarily felt intense grief." It wouldn"t be ungrammatical to make such a claim, but it would show that the speaker had a misunderstanding about emotional states and their "philosophical grammar.".Like intense grief, a heyday isn"t something that comes and goes quickly. In particular, a heyday isn"t a kind of day. So I doubt we"re looking at an eggcorn, but rather at a more philosophically interesting conceptual error.
Just wanted to point out that there are some well-thought-through explanations of the origin of "Hay Day" available now, to give the proof of eggcornicity in this reshaping:
Hay day is an old saying that means an easy day, plenty of play. It was said that a horse would rather eat hay than graze all day for the same amount of feed.
So, next time you say you're having a "hay day" or that we should "make hay while the sun shines," remember that the actual haymaking process is an important one and is a small piece in the puzzle of industrial agriculture's transgressions.
patschwieterman wrote:
No one knows where the phrase comes from, but in its earliest instances it seems to refer to "a state of exaltation or excitement of the spirits or passions," according to the OED.
My dictionary (New Oxford American Dictionary, Second Edition, 2005) says that "heyday" is derived "...from archaic heyday!, an exclamation of joy, surprise, etc." (Archaic in this context means some time before the late 16th century.) This doesn't give us the ultimate derivation of the word "heyday" itself, but it does give us the pre-phrasal form, free of any complicating articles (whether definite or indefinite), and establishes that both the spelling "hey"' and its association with "day" are very old, predating the incorporation of the word into a phrase. And FWIW, my dictionary's account of the derivation of "hey" is that it's a "natural exclamation, first recorded in Middle English".
I agree with the notion that "making hay (while the sun shines)" likely has an eggcornish influence in at least some cases, and I'm thinking that there may even be a few cases wherein "halcyon days" has had an unconscious effect.
And what brings all this up after so long? Simply the fact that I found this in an email chat-list today:
In the hay days of the early 90s tech boom, some 30-yr olds were talking about retiring by the time they were 40.
Here's a variation I happened upon recently:
My mother very patiently put up with my musical interest (she saw Elvis on a Louisiana Heyride appearance in the early 50s) and thought the Commercial Album was kind if fun (it is!).
Ralph Records FB group
A hayride is a social event, so it's plausible to imagine people saying "Hey, how ya doin'?" etc. As our society is less agrarian than it was fifty years ago when I went on a hayride with the other young people of Calvary Bible Church, the experience of actual hay may be more or less lacking in those who presume the phrase is "heyride".


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In the past, Shinnō taught Orochimaru several forbiddenReincarnation Ninjutsu. Thirteen years before the start of the series, Shinnō came to one of the villages in the Land of Fire, claiming to be a former shinobi who turned away from the path of battle to help save lives. In truth, he is an agent from the Land of the Sky, seeking for the scroll to unlock the powers of the Zero-Tails in order for his own country to gain immense power for world domination.
Some years after entering the village, an orphaned girl named Amaru fell terribly ill. While the villagers avoided her for the fear of being infected, Shinnō went straight to her house and saved her life, after hours of nonstop surgical operation. He was then welcomed as a celebrated member of the village, and accepted Amaru's request to take her in as an apprentice in the medical arts. Under this cover of a benevolent doctor, however, Shinnō plotted to have the Zero-Tails feed on the villagers' negative emotions over many years time, in order to gather up large quantities of Dark Chakra.
At first, Shinnō appeared to be a very kind-hearted doctor whose purpose in life was to save lives of others. He would turn away from battle in order to prioritise his motives of saving as many people as possible, and not be prejudiced with who the patient is: he saved Amaru from a terrible illness that led other villagers to shun her due to fear of being contaminated, and then accepted her as a disciple in the medical arts. He was also encouraging, as when Amaru emulated to look like him, which led to the other villagers to laugh, Shinnō instead complimented her, and encouraged her to work hard to achieve her dreams. Shinnō's desire to save lives led him to be fully willing to sacrifice his life to save Amaru from a trap, and giving her his bandanna as a way of entrusting everything to her.
However, this was all later proven to be a façade; Shinnō's true character is manipulative, cruel and arrogant. He worked for fifteen years undercover as the kind doctor, earning the trust of the people, in order to harvest a large amount of Dark Chakra from them by using the Zero-Tails, yet acting kind to Amaru for all the time to discreetly accomplish his true goal. He had no care for other people's lives, despite his incredible medical skills, and uses his knowledge of the human psychology to manipulate their emotions and actions. When the truth came out, he ruthlessly sneered at Amaru's despair, claiming that if anything is weird, is how he acted for the last fifteen years, that he never once considered their master-student relationship to be anything more than nonsense, snatching back the bandanna he gave her and ripped it to pieces, and mockingly laughed at her confession of her love for him. He is also very arrogant, as he claimed that the throne inside the Ancor Vantian worthy of a king, which he thought to be himself, and brutally assaulted Naruto for damaging it, even when he was the one who threw him against the throne, and giving himself the title "Sky Emperor" (空の帝, Sora no Tei). After being stripped of his powers by Sasuke's attack, Shinnō lost his composure, and tends shout out loud of the capabilities he has when merged with the Zero-Tails, and the consequences of its release.
Shinnō was an elderly man with long grey hair that flows out at the back, and muttonchops connected to his beard of the same colour. His eyebrows were thick and of a darker grey, but neatly trimmed. He also had yellow eyes with dark bags around them, and tear troughs under them, giving a somewhat stern look, similar to Itachi and Fugaku Uchiha. In his false persona, his eyes would have a kind and generous look, but once revealing his true colours, the kindness was replaced with an arrogant and sadistic look.
He wore a black shirt with a white gi with brown and blue edges over it, and further a sleeveless red jacket with gold sidings over that, and simple blue pants. He also originally wore a dark red bandanna, which he gave to Amaru before his presumed death.
After using the Body Revival Technique in combination with Dark Chakra to increase his strength, Shinnō underwent a great physical change in his body: his hair and beard grew wild and much longer, as well as blackening in colour. His eyebrows became black and wildly thicker. His muscles greatly expanded, which caused his clothes on his upper body to burst, leaving him bare-chested, with only shreds of the sleeve around his wrists. All this made him look younger and much more physically fit. The creases under his eyes and the dark bags around them also seem to have disappeared.
However, after being struck by Sasuke in his tenketsu and causing a backlash in his attempt to use Dark Chakra, Shinnō became a heavily emaciated old man, with his hair turning grey again and falling out, leaving him beardless, no eyebrows, and bald on top, with only wisps of hair at his side, and stubble in where his eyebrows and beard used to be. The creases under his eyes also returned.
Shinnō repeatedly proved to be a very intelligent, insightful and cunning shinobi. These factors paired with his ninjutsu prowess and dark chakra served to make Shinnō a powerful shinobi.
Despite having little care for human life, Shinnō demonstrated remarkable medical knowledge and prowess without the aid of chakra. With only basic medical tools, he performed flawless surgeries to save people from near death. In addition to the human body, Shinnō also demonstrated great knowledge of the human mind. He had repeatedly shown himself able to understand how people think and exploit it to suit his needs. He used this ability against Amaru, saying that people never suspect the one that saves their life. With this advantage, he is a very skilled manipulator, acting as a kind-hearted doctor for 15 years, while discreetly harvesting a large amount of Dark Chakra from the villagers' hatred of the Zero-Tails. He pretended to sacrifice himself for Amaru in order for her to succumb to the beast's control and release the Dark Chakra for him. Orochimaru expected that Shinnō had invented more reincarnation techniques since their previous encounter, indirectly showing a great level of confidence in his abilities.
Ninjutsu and Physical Prowess
In terms of ninjutsu prowess, Shinnō's skills focused mostly on his knowledge of chakra and human physiology. He knew many Reincarnation Ninjutsu, which he taught to Orochimaru, and a reason why Orochimaru wanted Sasuke to bring Shinnō back to Otogakure, believing that the doctor may help extend Orochimaru's host's vitality. He was even able to easily kill, or injure a person to the point of appearing dead, and then resurrect said person, even if it was himself. Shinnō was also well versed in Fūinjutsu, being capable of activating, and subsequently controlling, the flying fortress of Ancor Vantian through a seal.
With his knowledge of Dark Chakra, Shinnō was shown as able to unleash a powerful transformation to take a human being well beyond the normal limitations. By combining his signature Body Revival Technique, which grants tremendous self-healing might, with the Dark Chakra, Shinnō was able to transform into a superhuman body that can freely access his chakra without hand seals or any apparent effort of chakra build-up. This grants him great raw physical strength, demonstrated when he brutalised Naruto with punches that sent him flying all over the room and shattering the rock structures from impact, as well as incredible speed that made it look as though he was teleporting to Naruto's backside. This form manipulates the understanding of "Destruction and Rebirth" of muscles that makes it stronger to increase the body's strength. He was even able to unleash Dark Chakra in forms of powerful widespread or condensedshock waves or bolts for tremendous internal damage and claimed to be able to freely access all Eight Gates without any drawbacks as long as he still had access to enough Dark Chakra. He would make claims that this was the ultimate body. Upon being injured by Sasuke, Shinnō merged with the Zero-Tails to gain its powers and Dark Chakra, as well as manipulating the flying fortress Ancor Vantian. Thanks to Sasuke's efforts, the Dark Chakra began to cause Shinnō to wither away both mentally and physically, explaining Shinnō's increasing instability as he neared his end.
Plot Overview
When first introduced he and Amaru came to Konohagakure to get help for their village when the Land of the Sky appeared. During which, he demonstrated tremendous medical prowess by saving the lives of several near-death victims from the Land of the Sky's attack. He and Amaru were then escorted back to their village by Naruto, Sakura, and Hinata. To their horror, when they arrived they found the village in ruins. When Amaru accidentally set off a trap, Shinnō quickly jumped in to save her seemingly at the cost of his own life.
Later, he reappeared perfectly fine and revealed he used a special technique to create the illusion of death. He also revealed his affiliation with the Sky Ninja and that the kind doctor he portrayed for years was nothing but a lie to gain Amaru's trust. He also revealed to have been harvesting the Dark Chakra of the Zero-Tails from the villagers. He then used the dark chakra to transform into what he called the "Ultimate Body", gaining tremendous physical prowess and the ability to freely manipulate his chakra.
Initially, Shinnō repeatedly and effortlessly demolished Naruto despite all his attempts, but after Naruto realised Shinnō's power came from Amaru's negative emotions from feeling betrayed, Naruto helped her to let go of those feelings, stripping Shinnō of his power source and enabling Naruto to defeat him. Before the final blow could be made, Sasuke appeared and intervened as he was ordered by Orochimaru to retrieve the man.
Already seeing through Shinnō's power, Sasuke used his Chidori Senbonto disrupt Shinnō's chakra flow, tricking Shinnō to strip himself of all his power and reducing him to a withered old man. Growing desperate, Shinnō surrendered to Sasuke the scroll bearing the secrets behind his Body Revival Technique (he reasons that Orochimaru was purely interested in the contents of the scroll itself, not him), buying enough time for him to retreat to a chamber housing both the main source of dark chakra as well as the Zero-Tails. There, he merged with the Zero-Tails' seedling and attempted to finish off Naruto and Sasuke once and for all. But once the two unleashed the Nine-Tail's and the Cursed Seal's chakra, they were able to overfeed the cocoon, which caused it to release them. Naruto released demon fox chakra then began to get absorbed back into the Rasengan he created, creating the Tornado Rasengan. Shinnō puts up a barrier to defend himself from the attack and Naruto's Tornado Rasengan hits the shield and the two reach a stalemate. Sasuke uses his Sharingan to see Shinnō's weakness which is the large tower that he is connected to. Sasuke activates his second Cursed Seal form and cuts the tower deactivating Shinnō's shield and allowing him to be hit by Naruto's Tornado Rasengan, ripping him and the Zero-Tails from the stone wall that the cocoon was bound to. With the beast freed from its rein, Shinnō creepily emerged in a snake-like fashion, taunting the two for releasing the demon from its shackles, before it burst out of his emaciated body in a berserk mode, killing him once and for all.
- His name Shinnō (神農) literally means "God's Farm".
- It's unknown if he is distantly related to the Land of the Sky Emperor in the past. As he made some statements referencing kings and royalty, which could indicate that he hailed from a noble or royal family.


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Hiring Professional Tile Installers near Avondale AZ
From time to time you may need a professional tile installer near Avondale AZ, but how do you choose the best contractor? Obviously you want to find contractors that are not only experienced working with ceramic, porcelain or natural stone tile, but who are also professionals that will deliver a beautifully finished product. You want to be proud to show off your new floor tile, kitchen backsplash or shower stall tile to your friends, family and neighbors. But where do you start? A skilled residential or commercial tiling contractor can be a one man shop or part of a larger tiling or home improvement company. But the most important consideration is to find someone who not only works in your area, but has an excellent reputation for quality service at competitive and reasonable prices. And for your protection and convenience, you should be able to receive quotes either by phone, email or in person from contractors prior to making your decision. That way you will know how much the job will cost before work begins. So let's take a look at a few things that you should consider before hiring a local tile installer.
Bathroom, Kitchen and Floor Tiling
Following is a list of some of the services a local Avondale AZ tile remodeling company offers. This list is not all inclusive, so if you are in need of any type of tile services or remodeling not listed, please request your free quotes for more information.
- Kitchen Backsplash Install and Repair
- Shower Stall Tile Install and Repair
- Floor Tile Install and Repair
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- Ceramic and Porcelain Tile
- Natural Stone Tile (Marble, Granite, Slate)
- Tile Countertops
- Mosaic and Glass Tile
- Subway Style Tile
Choose Your Tile Contractor
When selecting a general contractor for tile installation in Avondale AZ, it is necessary to take some important steps to make sure that you are hiring a reputable and skilled professional. Yes, every City and State has laws in place requiring minimum standards for all remodeling, additions, restorations and repairs of housing. And although all contractors must follow these laws and standards, they will not protect you from poor workmanship, delays or unsatisfactory results. So follow these guidelines when considering hiring a tiling expert for your kitchen, bathroom or flooring tile project.
- Ask for referrals. Soliciting referrals from satisfied customers is the best way to find a reputable and professional Avondale AZ tile remodeling contractor. Friends and family are always a good place to start. Another option that is becoming more and more popular is obtaining quotes from services that pre-screen local contractors in your area to ensure that they are licensed and certified professionals for your protection. You can obtain free estimates from local tile contractors by requesting a quote from this website.
- Verify Licenses and Credentials. It is a good idea to do some preliminary research into the background of the contractors you are considering. Confirm that they hold all of the licenses required in Arizona, as well as Avondale or your Local Municipality. Check with the Better Business Bureau for any complaints as well as the Arizona Attorney General. Go online and check local reviews and visit their website. Find out if they hold any designations from professional organizations. All of these credentials and citations will give you an insight into not only their professionalism but their standing in your community.
- Meet with the contractors. Once you have narrowed down the list to two or three candidates have them come to your home to see the job first hand. Make sure that all bids are based on the same specifications and cover all of your job requirements. If their bid is unusually low or high, ask them why. Ask all pertinent questions, such as how long will it take, or do they anticipate any problems or delays. Be wary if the Avondale AZ tiling contractor doesn't ask you many questions.
- Check references. Before making the final selection, ask for and check Arizona references. Ask if the job was completed to their complete satisfaction. Ask if the job was completed on time and billed as quoted. Was there anything that the customer was not 100% satisfied with? Was there anything that they wish had been done differently?
- Get everything in writing. After making your final choice, be sure to review all of the documents that your Avondale AZ home remodeling contractor has prepared. Ask for certificates of insurance for the Workers Comp as well as Liability Insurance and a Building Permit if required. Make sure that all services and materials that are included are detailed in the final proposal, as well as the total cost. Also make sure that the payment schedule is outlined so each party knows what is expected. Start and completion dates, dispute resolution, and warranties all should be covered in the final contract.
A Little Bit About Avondale Arizona
Avondale, Arizona
Avondale, incorporated in 1946, experienced rapid residential and commercial growth in the years since 1980. Once primarily a sparsely populated farming community with many acres of alfalfa and cotton fields, Avondale has transformed into a major bedroom suburb for Phoenix. Several major residential subdivisions and shopping centers have recently been built on former farmland, many adjacent to Interstate 10.[citation needed]
According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 41.3 square miles (107 km2), of which, 41.3 square miles (107 km2) of it is land and 0.1 square miles (0.26 km2) of it (0.15%) is water.
As of the census of 2000, there were 35,883 people, 10,640 households, and 8,724 families residing in the city. The population density was 869.7 people per square mile (335.8/km²). There were 11,419 housing units at an average density of 276.8 per square mile (106.9/km²). The racial makeup of the city was 63.27% White, 5.20% Black or African American, 1.28% Native American, 1.89% Asian, 0.14% Pacific Islander, 24.32% from other races, and 3.89% from two or more races. 46.23% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
There were 10,640 households out of which 47.9% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 62.9% were married couples living together, 12.7% had a female householder with no husband present, and 18.0% were non-families. 12.9% of all households were made up of individuals and 3.1% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age. The average household size was 3.36 and the average family size was 3.66.
Find the Right Avondale AZ Tiling Contractor
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Consider the 19 other riders on the gate for Monster Energy Supercross the variables, and Ryan Villopoto the constant. While the likes of Trey Canard and Davi Millsaps overachieved based on expectations, and Ryan Dungey and Chad Reed seemed a little more reserved, and James Stewart serving up both good and bad on the same night (as is often the case), 'ole RV did exactly what was expected of him. He hauled ass. Straight up. We're talking super fast from the first time bikes rolled out on the track. He was fastest in the first timed practice, second fastest behind James Stewart in the second, and then went on an absolute tear through the pack in his heat race, erasing all of Justin Barcia's massive lead to nearly run him down over the final two laps.
Before the main, the story really was shaping up as "Can anyone stop Ryan Villopoto?" He grabbed the same inside gate Eli Tomac had used to get a great start and roll off with the 250SX win. And even when he blew the start, victory still seemed possible considering how much ground he ate up in his eight-lap heat. But then it started to come unraveled. About the time Villopoto got to the top ten, he couldn't find running room, stuck in a torrid battle at mid-pack. All of his lines were taken away, and at one point, while battling Josh Grant, the champ ended up off the track.
RV opened the door with a 16th at the opener.
Simon Cudby photo
Okay, chances of winning were pretty much gone after that, but they were dashed for good when he landed on a Tuff Block at about the same time he was passing Stewart. It was a big crash, and he even got up hobbling a bit. Later, he crashed again, but the damage was already done by the first one.
Many great stories emerged from Anaheim, chief among them the performances of Millsaps and Canard. But had Villopoto holeshot the main event and put his crazy speed to work, the supercross landscape could look much different right now. After two-straight Anaheim 1 wins, the champ will now have to build a comeback, a much different scenario for him, and for everyone else.


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Dodger Caravan on Feb. 14-15
The much anticipated announcement of the various caravan stops is now offiical, as we put out a news release this morning. All the information you need is here.
We've actually got great response from the players and current team. Headlined by new skipper Don Mattingly, you'll also see Rafael Furcal, Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, James Loney, Tony Gwynn Jr., Jay Gibbons, Gabe Kapler along with a host of former Dodgers and current Dodger broadcasters.
It's two days of community service leading right up to the reporting date in Camelback Ranch, so hopefully you'll find a way to lend a hand during some of the public community service stops and meet some of your favorite Dodger personalities.
8 Comments
So no autograph opportunities this year??? Well that just flushed all my excitement down the toilet. I guess we dont have alot of money to hold these events anymore.
I am super excited about volunteering. One of my friends had already signed me up for Tuesday so I got my vacation days approval! Now I am asking her about the second day as I love to volunteer for that too!
Love the theme to get the fans involved in the volunteering!
OK, I am registered for both! Good thing I came back here to read about it!
Looking forward to the volunteering and seeing the boys in Blue!
how do you volunteer for an event such as the caravan??
i'd love to help out..
younghitter, click on here from the post!
i did but when i get there, i can only click on the register now link, and all it gives me is a blank screen with the dodgers home page theme background..ahhh, i want in..i wanna volunteer.
A big congratulations to you and your fiance and to your future bundle of joy!
Aren't you going to be busy that day to volunteer?
ahhh..thank you, and yes emma..i wish i could take her to meet the dodgers but i doubt it because she needs her rest and our daughter needs to feel at home..maybe come opening day we'll all go as a family, seeing as how i already bought tickets for everyone, but ill be just as happy seeing the game at home, as long as i can spend it with my precious lil girl in my arms.


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Home > Fitness & Health > Health Library > Quick Tips: Making Healthy Snacks
A big part of healthy eating is eating more whole grains, fruits, vegetables, and low-fat milk products. Healthy snacks are a great way to make sure that you get plenty of these nutritious foods every day. Use these ideas to get started.
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Carp Tools and Miscellaneous
Miscellaneous Accessories for Carp Fishing, including Carp Tools, Catapults, Bait Scissors and Needles, Bank Sticks, Pop-Ups, Forceps and Putty.
We have lots more products in store than currently displayed here. If you can't see what you are looking for, please contact us for advice. We can also take your order over the phone (01323) 460441.