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Revisiting the Packers' 2016 Draft
Three years have passed since the Packers' 2019 draft. Let's see how the picks look in hindsight.
Draft season is in full swing, and while most people are looking forward to what the Packers will do with their selections this year (and now's as good a time as any to remind you all to pre-order the CheeseheadTV Draft Guide!), I wanted to take a look back and revisit the Packers' draft from 2016.
The prevailing wisdom among analysts and front office types is that it takes a good three years before you really know what you have in a draft class.
This was the second-last draft by Ted Thompson, whose final three drafts were roundly criticized (and for good reason). Here's what he managed to bring in to the team:
Round One, Pick 27 (27 overall): Kenny Clark, defensive tackle, UCLA
This arguably was the final home run hit by Thompson in his drafts as GM of the Packers, and certainly one of his best first-round picks. Clark wasn't exactly a household name or a sexy pick coming out of UCLA, but there's no doubt he has been a stud for the Packers on the defensive line.
Clark really started to come on in the final few weeks of his rookie year, and began making a larger impact in 2017, when he notched 4.5 sacks in addition to 55 total tackles. He was a force in 2018, constantly disrupting plays and managing to notch 6 sacks from an interior line position.
Still just 23 years old, Clark has already managed to become one of the best players at his position in the NFL. If he stays healthy, the sky is the limit to what he can accomplish in the league.
Pick grade: A
Round 2, pick 17 (#48): Jason Spriggs, offensive tackle, Indiana
Thompson traded a second round pick (#57), a fourth round pick (#125) and a seventh round pick (#248) to move up in the second round and acquire Spriggs. On his own, Spriggs has been a bad selection, but the fact that Thompson gave away a couple more picks to move up and get him makes this pick even worse.
When you draft a tackle in the second round, you do so with the expectation he will be a long-term starter at the position. But at this point, the only reason Spriggs is still on the team is that the position currently needs as much depth as it can get, and no one else appears to be the heir apparent to aging and oft-injured (yet still highly effective) right tackle Bryan Bulaga yet.
In his occasional stints, Spriggs has been generally bad to awful, with a few hints of promise dotted here and there. He is not a certainty to make the team this year despite still being under contract.
Pick grade: D-
Round 3, pick 25 (#88): Kyler Fackrell, outside linebacker, Utah State
The case of Kyler Fackrell is a really strange one. Entering the 2018 season, he looked like one of the worst players on the Packers' roster, and put some absolutely abysmal football on tape even during preseason. But Mike Pettine found a way to use Fackrell as a relief edge rusher, and Fackrell came out of absolutely nowhere to notch double-digit sacks in 2018, including a pair of three-sack performances.
It's still probably foolish to expect Fackrell to be an every-down player, but if he can repeat what he did in 2018 coming into relieve the Packers' new additions Za'Darius and Preston Smith to rush the passer, he could well earn himself a second contract with the team, something that would have been unthinkable coming into last year.
With all that being said, it's really difficult to grade the pick. He's got two years of awful football on his resume, but also a year in which he was an effective rotational player. At the very least, he's put himself into a position where he still may have a future with this team.
Pick grade: C
Round 4, pick 36 (#131): Blake Martinez, inside linebacker, Stanford
While Martinez isn't the kind of player who's going to light up the field, he's been an effective, reliable starter at the interior linebacker position, the kind of football player all 32 teams would like to have on their team. His weaknesses (including his difficulties shedding blocks) have been frequently discussed on this site, and for some reason there is a good portion of Packers Twitter that seems to think this guy is a bum (which is laughable at best). But there's no doubt Martinez was a solid pick in the 4th round and a player who has been able to contribute well to this team.
It remains to be seen if Martinez will get another contract with the Packers, but he's currently the best option they've got on the roster at the position. We'll see what happens with the draft this year—he could certainly benefit from another solid presence playing next to him in the base defense.
Pick grade: B-
Round 4, pick 21 (#137): Dean Lowry, defensive end, Northwestern
Lowry's short reach can make it difficult for him to get leverage while rushing the passer, and he'll never be anything more than a rotational player, but he's still made a few plays for the team here and there in his first few years and if nothing else has been a good depth player. Once his contract is up, there won't really be any rush to sign him back.
Pick grade: C-
Round 5, pick 26 (#163): Trevor Davis, wide receiver, California
Trevor Davis has been one of the more infuriating players on the team over the last several seasons. Anyone who watches the guy can see just how much talent he has and how much potential he has to be a special teams gamebreaker. But he's also made more than his fair share of absolutely boneheaded mistakes, and has been having an extremely hard time staying healthy.
Davis has managed to hang on to a roster spot this long in large part due to that untapped potential he exudes, but this year will likely be his last chance to stick. He's going to have to prove he can be a reliable, potentially game changing presence in special teams to be able to stick, because at this point it sure seems that the Packers don't view him as someone to use in their offensive arsenal (but who knows what will happen with new coaching and a new scheme).
Pick grade: C-
Round 6, pick 25 (#200): Kyle Murphy, offensive tackle, Stanford
Surprisingly, Murphy is the only player from this draft no longer with the team. His time was memorable for all the wrong reasons. He was a turnstile on the offensive line, then spent nearly all of the 2017 season and all of the 2018 season on injured reserve. He's now on the Rams' practice squad.
Pick grade: F
Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
Comments (97)
March 26, 2019 at 01:23 pm
At least this draft has more than 1 player still on the team. 1 guy seams to be TTs hit rate this decade.
March 26, 2019 at 01:31 pm
That's just plain nonsense, but I understand that all the cool kids have to bash the guy who got us to the Championship game 4 times in 10 years and won a Super Bowl.
March 26, 2019 at 01:58 pm
Yep Old School. Coming to this place reminds me of being in 7th and 8th grade all over again. All the boys herd together for fear of being kicked out of the herd. They all agree now that Ted Thompson is a total loser. One of their "leaders" said it a while back and they all shake their heads in agreement and it's now the gospel truth.
Meanwhile, back in Realville, this article is a fitting tribute to the our living legend and future hall of famer Ted Thompson even though he probably didn't intend it to be. This was a killer draft by the legend and the harvest in this draft will continue to produce for years to come. TT started with Aaron Rodgers and despite being sick finished with Kenny Clark and many other big time players. Class dismissed!!
March 26, 2019 at 07:14 pm
Thompson had some outstanding picks in his tenure......and to be fair some flops. Here are just a few: Rodgers, Ryan Grant, Clay Matthews, Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Josh Sitton, B.J. Raji, T. J. Lang, Brian Bulaga, David Bakhtiari, Micah Hyde, Davante Adams, and Corey Linsley.
Granted not all these players were stars but the bulk proved valuable. There were others too that proved useful or fit a need in Ted's reign. Some we lost to injury and defensively, it's arguable that a few never realized their potential due to coaching. Could he have done better, perhaps but overall his record of players afforded the Packers a long reign of winning seasons and playoff births only second to the Patriots. Pretty decent tenure given all the tangibles beyond Ted's control.......
March 28, 2019 at 06:00 pm
Or was it mostly Aaron Rodgers doing?
Tell me who you think is the worst GM in football and given 13 years of drafting, I'm sure I can come up with a list of picks more impressive than "sick" Teddy.
I have been bashing one Mr. Thompson since he picked AJ Hawk with the 5th pick in the draft.
For years I pointed out how Seattle couldn't make the final jump to championship level play with Ted as GM but shortly aftyer he left, they changed their FA and drafting philosophy 180 degrees and became a Super Bowl team overnight.
Ted worked his magic in GB and made us a bridesmaid much like he did SEA.
Ted drafted 10 DBs in his last few years, most at the top of the draft, and when Gutey came in, the Pack's greatest need was for not one, but two CBs!!!
Enough with Ted.
Gutey is our future now and so far so good.
How's this for a great move: HaHa for Amos and a 4th rd pick!!!
If Gutey aces this draft, the sky is the limit. Ed Oliver lit things up today at his pro day. May mean he's not there at 12. That would be a shame because he is what Pettine is dreaming about. Maybe he will make it to 12, who knows. If he doesn't, maybe Hock will. If not, then we may be looking at Dillard or a trade down.
I'm liking me some Jerry Tillery at 30. Unless Fant is sitting there. Maybe.
Pick 44 (or 30) has to be our free safety of the future.
APR 25, here comes Gutey!
March 26, 2019 at 02:08 pm
Ummm...AR got us too the Championship game 4 times and won us a SB.
MM's horrible game management and stale offense did nothing for us. AR made the offense go. And TT did three things: Raji, Matthews and Woodson. Although, you could say Woodson fell into our laps since he was so cheap and no one signed him. (aka Aaron Rodgers in the 2008 draft)
If AR would not have fell to us at 24, TT nor MM would have been here longer than 3 years.
So again, AR got us to 4 Championship games and won us a SB, not TT or MM.
March 26, 2019 at 03:55 pm
Actually, I'm not sure how much credit you should give Arod for the 2007 season.
Thompson drafted him and put the players and coaches around him. If you do don't understand that I can't help you.
March 26, 2019 at 05:02 pm
He brought the pack back against Dallas when Farve went out after chucking up a couple INTs or was it three. He rallied the team and you could see his star quality. If Mccarthy played Rodgers in the NFC they would have beaten the Giants because of his mobilty to escape pressure from a four man front.
March 26, 2019 at 05:06 pm
I agree with all that. But he didn't get us into the 2007 championship game.
March 26, 2019 at 06:51 pm
"and won a Super Bowl."
Not with any drafts in this decade.
2011 - Randall Cobb
2012 - Nick Perry, Mike Daniels (Not counting Casey Hayward who he didn't resign.)
2013 - David Bakhtiari (Not counting Micah Hyde who he didn't resign.)
2014 - Davante Adams, Corey Linsley (Not counting Ha Ha Clinton-Dix who got traded instead of resigning)
That's 6 hits divided by 5 drafts. Can you do math? Or, is math nonsense too?
6/5 = 1.2 (didn't even need a calculator)
Not counting 2016-17 because it's too soon, no 2nd contracts yet (But Kenny Clark is awesome)
March 26, 2019 at 07:45 pm
41 players drafted by TT between 2011 and 2017 were still in the league last year. That's about 6 players per draft.
March 26, 2019 at 08:28 pm
There goes that broken record again: "4 times in 10 years, blah, blah..." Anybody remember the old Tom and Jerry cartoon "Mouse Trouble" from 1944? "Come up and see me sometime"..."come up and see me sometime"..."come up and see me sometime...."
Just don't blow yourself up.
March 26, 2019 at 10:08 pm
I can see you're a guy who doesn't like to be reminded of facts you don't like.
March 27, 2019 at 11:29 am
Nothing wrong with your facts--you just use that particular fact as a boilerplate response to any criticism of the previous regime, which in most peoples' minds, could have done a whole lot better managing the roster.
March 27, 2019 at 05:16 pm
Better than 4 Championship games in 10 years? Only New England can claim that. Lots of guys have done worse. In fact, pretty much every body did worse.
So you're right that Thompson could have done better. He could have done a lot worse, too.
He got Charles Woodson. He got Ryan Pickett. He drafted Aaron Rodgers despite the fact we already had a starting QB. He traded down and got Jordy Nelson. He traded up and got Clay Matthews. He signed Julius Peppers.
He didn't sign Albert Haynesworth. He didn't fumble the whole Favre Fiasco. He did keep our salary cap very healthy. He didn't make any costly mistakes in FA.
No offense intended, but you strike me as a guy who has never been responsible for running anything more complicated than a lemonade stand. I think you believe the GM should be reactive rather than proactive, and that he should eschew a long range plan in favor of a short-term possibility.
Thompson, from Day One, said : You have to be careful in FA. It's easy to make mistakes. Often, you end up paying more for a guy who is only a marginal improvement over what you have. You also have to consider the locker room and the team's salary structure.
This is called a plan, and he was true to it, and it worked very, very well. I'm sorry you can't see that. Maybe you should root for the Lions for a while, or the Vikings.
March 27, 2019 at 08:52 am
TT had some great drafts and he had some bad ones which seems to be pretty normal for GM's across the league. My beef with TT was his refusal to use free agency in any responsible way. If you miss on some draft choices as any GM will do, you need to wisely use free agency to fill the holes. The Hoodie has probably been a poorer drafter than TT, but he is masterful at using free agency. TT almost entirely ignored free agency as an opportunity to help his roster. And I believe the difference in that philosophy has NE at 5 or 6 championships and Green Bay at 1.
March 26, 2019 at 01:29 pm
So guys like Lowry and Fackrell who suit up for every game are a C. A guy like Martinez, who led the league in tackles, he's average. And a guy like Spriggs is a failure.
Got it.
I would grade it like this: Clark is an A. Martinez, Fackrell, and Lowry are clear Bs. Spriggs is a C-. Davis is a C-
Martinez is a B lvl player. Hes not flashy, but hes a good player. A lot of teams would love to have a Blake Martinez.
Spriggs, as a second round pick that was traded up for, is a fail. What has he done to earn a better grade?
Describing guys by saying "they suit up for every game" screams average. lol
March 26, 2019 at 01:42 pm
If suiting up for every game means average, then what about people who don't suit up for every game? Is Aaron Jones less than average? Mike Daniels?
Some of you guys should run a business that has employees that only show up for work about 75% of the time and then tell me what great employees they are.
March 26, 2019 at 03:40 pm
What games did Jones change last year?
He appeared in 12 games. We were 4-8 in those games.
We were 2-1-1 in games where he did not suit up.
He started 8 games. We were 2-6 in those games
He had ONE hundred yard game where we won by 19 points.
The only game he changed was NE, where we were never in it again after his fumble.
March 26, 2019 at 02:00 pm
You cant compare NFL player to a 9-5 employee. In the real world people who come to work every day and are just there are fine.
In the NFL one play can turn a game. Jones is electric. Daniels is disruptive. They have been every season they have been in the league.
March 26, 2019 at 02:02 pm
You're comparing apples to onions. A guy like Jones goes down there's s clear difference than if Dean Lowry missed a few games.
March 26, 2019 at 03:20 pm
True, starter versus depth, but I thought Lowry did well at the end of the season when called on to start. There are depth (opportunity') and development factors to be considered in evaluating later picks. One factor that I think was missed I believe is how quickly Martinez was able to contribute positively. Lowry and Martinez are I think perhaps under appreciated here.
Spriggs was understrength and then bulked up. He has had a year to acclimatize to his new build. He either steps up or out this season. If he does step up his grade changes significantly for the better, but as of this point, can't argue.
Davis is over valued. No receiving upside, not able to get on the field consistently to be our returner and questionable judgment over his time. Despite his ability when he does return, that is a pick I would take back if I could without even the doubt if a late developing upside. With Gute's comments on slot receiver size and durability I would be shocked if we don't draft return candidates as well as UDFAs (not necessarily receivers) and if Davis survives to opening day.
March 26, 2019 at 01:35 pm
I'm starting to think you're Ted Thompson lol let me get this straight you can suit up for every game and not make that much of an impact but be a good player? Jason Spriggs has been 90% terrible but because he's always available that should be good enough? Lowry doesn't really stick out on the field he's made what 2-3 plays during his time in the league? Fackrell just broke out this year and when you put his sacks under a microscope it's less impressive. Blake is the only I'd give a second contact to he's a high effort guy that any team would want.
March 26, 2019 at 03:16 pm
Cag....the worst player on the field has more impact than anybody who isn't on it.
March 26, 2019 at 03:35 pm
I mean a negative impact is still and impact I guess
March 26, 2019 at 03:49 pm
Better than playing with 10 guys on the field, I assure you.
Once, I started a season with 44 guys the first day. Injuries and ineligibility due to grades left me with 13 guys for the last game of the season. I would have gladly welcomed my worst player back if I could have.
Clay Matthews had several negative impact plays last year. Remember?
March 26, 2019 at 03:59 pm
You said bad player though how is that the same as a good player making a bad play? A bad player on the field is a constant liability like a corner being victimized or an o linemen getting beat every play.
March 26, 2019 at 04:14 pm
He's only on the field because you don't have anybody better.
You start the season with 53 and a practice squad. Somebody gets hurt and a practice squad guy moves up. I get the impression that you think a practice squad guy should be as good as a starter. They aren't.
People like Brice, for example, was on the field because we didn't have anybody better. When King and Alexander were hurt we played Brown. When Wilkerson got hurt, we activated Lancaster from the PS.
There are no bad players in the NFL. Every one was the best player on their high school team and probably in the district. There are over 200 Div I football programs and about 220 players get drafted. These guys are ALL good football players, even the weakest guy on the team.
You hope and pray that you're not going to have to rely on your backups, but ultimately you end up with Ladarius Gunter guarding Julio Jones in the Championship game. It happens. It doesn't mean your scouting staff, or your personnel department, or your coaches suck.
March 26, 2019 at 04:26 pm
Old School, I know you are a football coach but do you also teach high school classes and if you do what subject do you teach? If you don't teach some classes you should because the fact you had to explain that says the education system needs a makeover.
March 26, 2019 at 05:13 pm
Yeah, I was a classroom teacher. I have an M.Ed. in Special Education and that meant I had a steady supply of students who couldn't be put in "regular" classrooms because of intellectual or behavioral deficits.
I taught various academic subjects, but mostly I taught "think for yourself" and "human nature". If you think for yourself, and you understand why people do and say the things they do, the world makes a lot more sense.
Two of my former students can be Googled. Brian Flores is being tried for a double murder. Francisco Huizar….well, I'll let you look that one up. Brian was huge and violent and I played him at defensive tackle. Huizar was my backup QB one year until the starter became academically ineligible.
March 26, 2019 at 05:38 pm
I figured you taught. It also explains why you have more patience than I do when dealing with some of these confrontational people. I can clearly see the difference in levels here when you and say a Kirk or Taryn speak.. I enjoy reading your posts and your knowledge. Yes, most are not thinking for themselves. They are allowing Twitter and Facebook to do the thinking for them. That's why I like reading what you have to say. I shake my head at some of the most common sense things you say and I see 10 dislikes and no likes. It's maddening how some of these people here are being educated. I am blown away to be honest. Good luck to you Old School. Probably won't be here much longer. The days are coming to an end. The herd won't stop until they get their way. Come September when Boyle moves up to no. 2 they'll be saying that damn Dash was right. So long.
March 26, 2019 at 10:18 pm
Dash, I'm not positive, but I would venture a guess that I give you more "thumbs up" than anyone here. I enjoy your posts and read most all of them. Keep it up and don't leave.
The worst part is that they gave up that $125 for Jason Spriggs. LOL
March 26, 2019 at 02:04 pm
Spriggs is a late bloomer like Fackrell. I think the herd here is going to be shocked at the improvement in Spriggs this season. It will be Kyler Fackrell like believe me. This will turn out to be yet another home run by the guy everyone loves to hate because he's a living legend and one of the greatest GM's in Packers history and they can't handle it.... Ted "Teddy" Thompson.
March 26, 2019 at 02:10 pm
All these bold predictions you have, are those a result of you being so much smarter then the rest of us?
Id like nothing more then to see Spriggs live up to expectations. Id also like to see myself winning the powerball jackpot tomorrow. The odds are about the same.
March 26, 2019 at 03:12 pm
"All these bold predictions you have, are those a result of you being so much smarter then the rest of us?"
Based on all the dislikes? Absolutely!! People clearly hate when others are constantly right and they are not. As I said many times, the cream of the crop here is Old School, Taryn and of course the late and great John T. Kirk, who is resting in peace in Cleveland.
March 26, 2019 at 02:18 pm
No one is disputing that TT made some good draft picks. The issue with TT and why is not one of the best GM's ever is because he only did it for the first 4 years. After that his track record was horrible. Go and look at his draft record vs other average GM's. You will see he was not any better than average. He failed to field a better than average defense 80% of the time he was GM. The reason why we did not win more than one SB. AR won us the SB by playing out of his mind in the 2010 playoffs.
AR is the reason he survived as GM. No other reason. If AR does not slide to 24, we are not having this discussion.
March 26, 2019 at 02:52 pm
"AR is the reason he survived as GM. No other reason. If AR does not slide to 24, we are not having this discussion."
I read two of your comments so far and it's like reading someone who watches CNN 24/7 seriously. Where are you getting your info from?
Do the Patriots win all those super bowls if Brady doesn't slide to them in the 6 round? lol
If AR is the reason TT survived as a GM than I would say TT had great long term vision, bravery and intelligence taking the guy who would help keep him in his job for all those years when at the time there was no immediate need to take a qb.
What will Gutey's excuse be when it's the same AR that is the reason he won't survive 10 years for not selecting another young qb in his first year or two like Ted did? Who's the idiot for not finding a quarterback when it's the most important position in the NFL? You will be the guy here complaining why Gutey chose some tight end with the first pick when he passed up on some hall of fame qb because "he had Arod", a TT pick and one of the greatest selections in NFL history.
March 26, 2019 at 02:37 pm
But Dash how do you know that these weren't Gutes picks? You said he was pulling all the strings while TT was on his death bed? In fact I specifically remember you saying that Gute would barge into TT office before draft time then give him purple nurples and noogies until he promised to draft the guys Gute wanted and if TT told anyone he would give him a knuckle sandwich.
March 26, 2019 at 01:31 pm
Kenny Clark is a beast! Im a bigger fan of Martinez than many here. I think he is terribly unappreciated. He plays hard, he's active and available every week. You can win games with guys like Martinez.
March 26, 2019 at 06:35 pm
Martinez also has to be graded for what he does before the snap as well as what he does during the plays. He's a great captain in the middle of the defense.
March 26, 2019 at 08:19 pm
Martinez pick deserves a much higher grade for a 4th rd pick. I'm not a Blake lover but for a 4th rd pick, that's at least a B+.
Spriggs is a flat F.
March 26, 2019 at 02:02 pm
It's clear that Green Bay has to get Aaron Rodgers more help -- signing Billy Turner and Marcedes Lewis, while nice, isn't going to be enough. They need to add another offensive playmaker to the mix, and tight end like T. J. Hockenson would be the first place to look, with Jimmy Graham seemingly in decline. The Packers addressed their need for edge rushers in free agency, but there's room for upgrades at inside 'backer and depth at safety.
March 26, 2019 at 02:48 pm
When was the last time you posted something that didn't have the word "Hockenson" in it?
Boom...boom...boom...this drum ain't gonna beat itself!
March 26, 2019 at 10:52 pm
If Oliver is available at 12, draft him! If he isn't I would be happy with Hock; I would expect him to via for the pro bowl and be a blue chip TE for close to a decade.
March 26, 2019 at 04:28 pm
Let's get T.J. out of hock with pick #12!
We'll get good players at other positions in the rest of the draft.
At least that's one scenario that seems like a winner.
Aaron Rodgers will find it irresistible to throw shorter passes to the middle of the field for first down yardage.
Plus, Doug gets a finder's fee; a free Hock jersey; and is able to ride his bike with Hock during training camp. :-)
March 26, 2019 at 04:31 pm
Mr. Dobber, it's time to buy STOCK in the HOCK!!
March 26, 2019 at 10:14 pm
I wouldn't. Is He going to be the first pick in the NFL draft.? Why isn't he Doug?. I've never seen a TE hyped more. If he's there @12. Bet Gute trades the pick. If Gute takes Hoek he should be fired. If Gute takes a WR I rd. 1 he should be fired. You don't use three draft picks on Wrs and draft a Te/or Wr when you just spent 10 mil too. If your a packer fan you would hope Gute trades the pick first.
March 26, 2019 at 02:08 pm
Lowry should get a little better grade (B) and Trevor Davis a little lower (D/F).
March 26, 2019 at 02:12 pm
I second the better grade for Lowry. If suiting up every game is a baseline for a C, as a 4th rder (unsure if draft position weights these grades any) who makes a handful of sacks a year I think C+ (at least) is reasonable.
March 26, 2019 at 03:04 pm
I give up. Apparently, the bell curve is too complicated for some people to understand.
53 guys. 2/3 are average. Some are high average, some are low average. Of the remaining players, 9 are better than average and 9 are below average.
It is what it is. I won't argue it anymore.
March 26, 2019 at 03:23 pm
True Old School. That surely factors into grades though. A seventh rounder who turns into an average starter is a steal whereas were the same player a first rounder he would be a D in terms of draft value surely?
March 26, 2019 at 03:42 pm
I don't know. If the class valedictorian gets an 82 on a test, and the class clown gets an 82, don't they get the same grade?
March 26, 2019 at 05:08 pm
False equivalency.
March 26, 2019 at 05:23 pm
Can you explain why? I don't think you can.
If Tom Brady had been taken in the 2nd round instead of the 6th, would that have been a lower graded pick? IF Aaron Rodgers had been drafted in the 4th round instead of the 1st, would that have made him a better pick?
You get 7 picks. Thousands of Div I and Div II football players leave college every year. You sift and sort and test and study and boil them down to a pool of about 220. You get 7 of them. If you get a good player in the first, or second, it's just as good as getting one in the 6th or 7th. The only difference is that you stand a better chance of getting guys early in the draft.
March 27, 2019 at 07:08 am
It depends on what one is evaluating, the current roster or the performance of the GM in a given draft.
If the question is rating these drafted payers based on current ability, draft or other acquisition method is irrelevant as you suggest Old School.
That said, a GM has a set of picks of differing value. Most of these are mid late round. Evaluating a draft for me is to judge hoe a GM used those picks. So in terms of draft evaluation I would say the position of the pick is critical to determining how a GM performed.
March 27, 2019 at 08:38 am
Excellent point Coldworld. Evaluation of the player should be independent of his draft status, but evaluating the GM must include the draft status as well as the GM's use of other roster building tools.
March 26, 2019 at 10:57 pm
ever hear of a poisson distribution?
how about a weibull distribution?
or a skewed normal distribution?
you assume too much...
take a statistics course schoolmarm!
March 27, 2019 at 07:02 am
Took it. Aced it. About 40years ago. How do any of those apply in this case?
People can't wrap their heads around a standard distribution, and I'm supposed to talk about a Weibull distribution?
March 27, 2019 at 04:10 am
The bell curve generally is just that, a curve. As you note in this particular comment, some are high average (within one standard deviation) and some are low average (one standard deviation). Here, you've noted the low and high average but have dropped that caveat in other posts to make it sound like the average section would have a horizontal line shape covering two-thirds of the roster.
First, the difference between low average and high average is more significant than you imply (or at least than I infer from your comments).
Second, I think the Packers' 2018 roster would have an asymmetrical distribution that is negatively skewed. The degree to which the distribution is skewed might depend on how much credit should be given to special teams for some of these players. Crawford, Gilbert, Looney, Donnerson, Pankey, Jmon Moore, Vitale, Trevor Davis, Burks, Kizer, Boyle, House, Pleasant, Brice and Toomer should never have seen the field except on special teams or to get their feet wet. [Note that this evaluation = actual current ability to produce versus talent/upside.]
A few of these players provide enough value on STs so as to arguably raise them from the below average or terrible range into the 2/3rds area. There were a number of players who merited below average versus low average grades: Perry, Kendricks, Morrison, Light, Redmond, Bibbs, Bell, Patrick, McCray, and Carson. Eh, Josh Jones probably sneaks into low average territory. Due to some churn and injuries, I would guess we're talking about 20 to 25 below average to terrible players out of 60+ players. Probably at least 33% to about 40%. At the top end, 2 standard deviations above average, roughly 1.7%, only AR in terms of value conceivably fits that slot. In terms of best at his position, only Bakh fits in that spot.
I know we've butted heads, Old School, but I will say that your posts are worth reading and replying to. As I re-read this comment, there are several players I am itching to re-classify (Kendricks probably sneaks into low average), but it's early so perhaps I'll do a more systematic and thoughtful breakdown another time.
March 27, 2019 at 09:09 am
You gave this a lot more thought than I did. If I had to pick about 9 above average players, it's Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Adams, ...maybe Linsley on offense. On defense, Clark and Daniels.
So yeah, it's probably negatively skewed this past season. But you're always going to have fluctuations because of injuries and age and development. Matthews has been above average over the course of his career, but not last year. Same with Graham. Same with Bulaga.
Alexander might be above average next year, but this year he was probably only high average. It's fluid, from season to season and even game to game.
MY POINT is that it's not like the old days when teams drafted players they hadn't even seen play. Every team has huge scouting staffs. There's film. We have a joint combine with everybody in attendance. You're simply not going to gain advantage on 31 other teams by dint of being smarter.
I get the impression here often that people think we should only have above average players, and that average players should be replaced as soon as possible. It's never going to work that way.
btw, thanks for the kind words, TGR. I don't see us as butting heads, but exchanging different views. We're all on a bell curve here, too. Some are above average, some are below, and most tend to gather around the median.
March 27, 2019 at 09:36 am
LOL. Eventually, often reach general agreement. I don't think teams can gain an advantage by dint of working harder because nearly every team has loads of personnel people (though there is one team whose owner is reputed to be too cheap to pay for enough scouts - can't think of that one). I do think it can be done with smarts. I also agree that average players and even low average ones are not to be despised.
March 27, 2019 at 10:32 am
You are talking about the Bengals. And look at the product they put on the field.
Even in the 50s, players were drafted based on a recommendation of their college coach, often unseen by the organization. In the 1960s, the Cowboys gained an advantage in scouting and in talent, but eventually everybody caught up.
Nowadays, with all the scouting....and the salary cap, AND free agency, it's just next to impossible to gain any kind of significant advantage talent-wise on your roster. The talent difference between the best teams in the league and the worst is not that great and often it's just the coaching...and the play at QB....that makes a difference between 5-11 and 11-5. Look at the Browns. They sucked for years but not because they didn't have talent. A new coach, a new QB, and they're respectable. Take Belichick and Brady off the Pats and they're an average team.
It is a long-ass season, and you need contributions from everybody, 1-53 and the practice squad. Big wheels and little wheels, working together. And that's why my hide gets chapped when people who are allegedly fans bash our players and our former GM.
March 27, 2019 at 10:03 am
Old School great point on the YTY gauge of players, even us mortals have substandard years. Some of the players we had in the Thompson era were below average regardless of when they were picked but yet they were useful and/or filled a need albeit short lived and average. Some were duds outright and left after one year. I wonder how tracking other team's successes and failures in the draft would stack up compared with the Thompson era?
March 27, 2019 at 10:36 am
It's not just year-to-year. It's game to game sometimes. You take a guy who is maybe a little better than the median. You put him on the field against a reserve and he looks better....maybe high average. Then he twists an ankle, and he looks low average. Then the ankle improves and he looks average. Then he gets his leg stepped on and he's low average again.
Most players are JAGs over the course of the season. And it has to be that way. Robert Irsay once was being interviewed and he said that you can only afford to pay 10-12 guys and everybody else has to be rookie contract or vet minimum. If your paid guys stay healthy and play well, you're probably in the playoffs; if they don't, you aren't.
March 27, 2019 at 11:43 am
The NFL has made the QB far too important. Outside of the 10-12 guys on 2nd contracts (some of whom probably are underperforming), if you've got a handful of plus players on rookie deals and 15+ guys who are somewhere between that low average to the average area, your team is probably very good.
March 26, 2019 at 04:28 pm
The argument about TT being a good GM or not based on his draft picks, is not the story for me. I think TT was a lousy GM for not using all the tools available to him. Without Rodgers TT and MM would have been gone a long time ago. The fans in Seattle also hated TT when he was there for the same reason. When he came to Green Bay Seattle turned things around. How many other GM's had two hall of fame qbs like TT did.
March 26, 2019 at 04:30 pm
Latest Mock Draft
#12 Green Bay Packers
T.J. Hockenson - TE
School: Iowa | Year: Sophomore (RS)
Previous: No. 16 to Panthers
You'd be hard-pressed to find a scout who doesn't love Hockenson's game. A ferocious blocker with good hands and superb route-running skills, he's viewed as a complete tight end. Reliable, sturdy, proven -- he'd make new Packers coach Matt LaFleur (and, more importantly, Aaron Rodgers) very happy.
March 26, 2019 at 05:31 pm
Hey Doug, kinda wondering if you have an opinion on this tight end kid from Iowa, this "TJ Hockenburg" or something??
March 26, 2019 at 05:55 pm
Man, there are some Hindenberg-sized egos in this room. Dash and stockholder, for example, have egos bigger than Larry King's prostate. I, on the other hand, will freely admit to being your run-of-the-mill football fan blowing his amateur opinions out of his butt.
March 26, 2019 at 06:37 pm
I'm still "cracking" up over your comment...I needed a good laugh today. Thank's for that! I too am just a run-of-the-mill Packer fan,,,S.B.D. !
March 26, 2019 at 10:55 pm
No wonder your opinions stink.
Just kidding; bad joke.
March 27, 2019 at 06:11 am
Best comment I've seen on CHTV in a really long time.
March 27, 2019 at 03:33 am
Once again, another draft from Ted completely void of game changers. I never understood why he was so obsessed with saving cap space, just to never use it.. especially with the drafts just not doing it for him. I'm thourougly convinced that if he didn't draft Arod, we wouldn't have that 2010 ring and he would've been gone way sooner.. I think he negated his skill at picking later in the draft, by mostly missing early in the draft, as well as being frugal in FA and holding on to talent that wouldn't be #3 or #4 on another team. But Arod did due with the scraps he was given and saved him. Happy with the change, but also can recognize the good he's brought to us. Appreciate all he's done, but that affair ran it's course.
March 27, 2019 at 05:02 am
These grades suffer from recency bias. My grades are based on the cumulative 3-year value of the player to the team, and then I will add a grade based on a curve for draft position.
Clark: A. Very decent rookie year, above average second year with a sustained period (last third of the season) playing at a very high level, and a fine third season. Curve grade A. He met or exceeded expectations for the 27th pick.
Spriggs: D+ Got moved around a bit, but was a liability for all three seasons. Seemed to come around a bit in his third season. Never even a low-end starter, and first two years not a high-end backup. Might have reached decent backup in 2018. Need more from players taken #48 (we have #44 this year, and expectations for that player are much higher than what the team got from Spriggs). D- on a curve.
Fackrell: C-. He gets something for his STs. Nothing as a rookie, very little in his second season except STs. 3rd year his run D and coverage was okay, and while I worry it might be a fluke, he did show pass rushing ability. Need more out of a 3rd rounder (okay, late 3rd). D+ on a curve, but his 4th year could bump it up.
Lowry: C+. Meh primary starter, nice rotational player or part-time starter. Like many DL, he needed a year. His 2nd year was okay and he was a nice player to have in his 3rd year. Met draft expectations. B- on a curve.
Martinez: B-. Started right away, was good at run D in his 2nd year, if ghastly in coverage. Greatly improved his coverage in 2018, but his run D slipped a bit. Met and exceeded expectations. Solid B on a curve.
Davis: D+. Can't play WR. Pretty good gunner and PR. Too many injuries. The average 5th rounder doesn't play out his rookie deal. Davis probably will play in the NFL somewhere in 2019. C- on a curve.
Murphy: D-. Played some, even wasn't terrible for the most part. Still, only got 2 years out of him. D- on a curve. Have to leave room for the Amichia types: took up a roster spot even though he wasn't strong enough to play, and then it turned out he couldn't play in his 2nd year either. Now that's an F. Getting cut and not making it to the PS is an F-.
March 27, 2019 at 07:50 am
I'm not sure why we're grading these guys on the production from each single year. Isn't the point to take a look at where they are in year 3, after they've had a chance to develop? Don't we expect guys in the lower rounds to take more time to develop?
Clark: A+: Pro Bowler, best at his position, what else do you want?
Spriggs: D: as in not dead yet, but dying.
Fackrell: B-: rotational, yes, but so was Z. Smith and he just got inked for $66M. 10 sacks says that he is an asset that can be utilized by smart coach.
Martinez: B: solid starter, some limitations, but exceptional production, especially when the preferred D tackles are healthy. He's AJ Hawk without the burden of having been selected at #5.
Lowry: C+: There when you need him. Not a preferred starter, but he could start for some teams.
Davis: D+: the plus is for potential, the D is for reliability.
Murphy: F: Gone.
March 27, 2019 at 09:06 am
I can't even begin to fathom why anyone would grade a draft class solely on each player's third season. Didn't we pay them in years one and two? Didn't they take up a roster spot? Don't most of us think Martinez has added more value to the team than Fackrell, in part because Martinez made real positive contributions in his first and second seasons while Fackrell did little to nothing outside of STs?
The whole point of the draft is to acquire talent that is cheap for four or five years. Isn't it is better if said talent actually produces on the field for all four seasons than just in the last season or so?
March 27, 2019 at 10:05 am
Do you expect anyone past the first two rounds to step in and start in year one? How many receivers produce in year 1? Do you believe that NFL OL and DL players get stronger in the first two years and add (hopefully) quality weight as they mature? Do you believe in the "develop" part of "draft and develop?" Do you believe Rodgers was an F after year 3 because he didn't do anything the first three years he was with the team?
March 27, 2019 at 08:14 am
How I would grade this class -
Clark: A+
Lets not forget that the popular player when the Packers drafted was Clarks teammate, Myles Jack. Packers took Clark which many people hated. My proud moment though was with this pick Clark was my pick when I did my annual mock draft. I felt he was a guy flying under the radar.
Forward to now, and Clark has been a beast. He absolutely has been a great pick. IMO, he was Thompsons best pick since taking Bakhtiari.
Spriggs: D+
I'm being generous. He has not been very good. But I do think he played better in his 3rd year when he played. But a bad pick.
Fackrell: C-
The only reason why he gets a C- is because he shined a bit last year. Was able to actually get sacks. I thought he was improving late in his rookie year and was going to take a jump in his 2nd year. He was terrible. Last year he was better. But he still isn't a great player. We will see if he can do much this year or not.
Martinez: A
Martinez in the 4th round was a great pick up. He has been a tackling machine. While he hasn't had the 'highlight' plays, he is a rock solid player. Martinez is one of those guys that a lot of people don't appreciate until he is gone.
Lowry: C
Lowry has been a solid player. I am looking forward to seeing what he does in year 2 with Pettine. He is a good rotational player. He isn't a wow player but does the dirty work.
When they drafted Lowry I was hoping for some other players. The list of players I remember hoping for was Paul Perkins, Jordan Howard, Jatavis Brown and Jerrell Adams.
Davis: C+
I don't know what to make of Davis. He has been a really good special teams player, but hasn't offered much on offense.
Does having a new offense change what Davis does on offense? Could he be a hidden gem? It will be interesting to see what happens here.
Murphy: D
Players drafted after the 5th round are basically a crap shoot. Murphy basically has been injured more then he played. Which would have affected his play. Would he have been a better player had he not been injured?
This draft is summed up with 2 starters. 1 star (Clark) and 1 rock solid starter (Martinez). It has 2 rotational types of players in Fackrell and Lowry. A backup in Spriggs. A core special teams player in Davis.
I would give this draft a B+ grade. Any time you get a Pro Bowl caliber player and another good starter the grade starts at an A. The problem is that the other players haven't done enough. This grade will change based on this year.
March 27, 2019 at 11:24 am
I suspect if you used a surplus value methodology, your grades might change. There is plenty of subjectivity still, but it forces me to think. Here's how I should have done it above. Think back to each individual season and just assess how the player was in that particular year. What would you have paid for a similar player on the open market? DL 65% of snaps is a starter in GB.
Clark: $3.5M, $8.5M, $12.0M.
Decent part time (32% snaps) starter run stuffer, no juice.
Good starter NT, some juice. 65% snaps.
Elite starting NT. Excellent run D, Plus juice. 68% snaps.
$24M minus $6.3M in payments = $17.7M surplus. Grade A.
Martinez $2.50M $4.5M, $7.5M
42% of snaps. PT starter. Plus Run D. No juice. Bad Cov.
93%. Decent starting ILB. Good Run, no juice or cov.
99%. Good starter. Plus Run some juice. Good Cov.
$14.5M minus $1.9M in payments = $12.6M in surplus. B+
Fackrell: $1M $2.0M Hmmm $6M? Barrett got $4M.
15%/64% ST. Nice STs. Can't play run or rush. Cov meh
42/83%. Real good STs. < run and rush. Cov ok.
59/52%. Good STs. Ave. run and cov. Plus rush.
$9M - 2.3M = $6.7M surplus. Grade B-
Lowry $800K, $2M, $4.5M
15/2%. 8 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 QB hits, 3 TFL Ok when played.
47/0%. Decent Run D, meh juice. 30/2.5/5/6 TFL
65% Good run D, more consistent juice, Decent starter.
$7.3M minus $1.8M = $5.5M surplus. Grade B-
Spriggs: $800K, $1M, $1.2M.
22%, then 27% and 27%.
$3.0M minus $3.3M. Negative $300K. D-
Trevor Davis: $550K, $1.5M, $363K (lowest split contract)
8%/18% 3 recs, 8 yd ave. 9 PR 12.8. 3 KRs 21 ave.
10/41% 5 recs, 83 Yscrimmage, 24 PR 12 ave. 31 KR 23
0/7% 0 recs, 0 Yscrim, 4 PR 11 ave. 1 KR 20 ave.
$2.8M - $1.8M = $1M surplus. D
I am giving Davis more credit for PR and KR since I think poor ST discipline robbed him of some nice returns.
Clark can't be an A+. Need some room for players like WR Mike Thomas, Tyreek Hill, a QB or two, and DE Ngakoue., who are all in the $30M+ surplus value range so far.
As a note, I'd put Jalen Ramsay at about $9M, $14M, and 11M, but he's earned $15.8M, so his surplus value is $18M, about the same as Clark's.
March 27, 2019 at 09:23 pm
That puts the Great in REYNALDO. value-driven assessment quantified
in real terms (dollars).
March 27, 2019 at 10:00 am
Some commenters must be Packer fans for only the last two years. Compare us to the rest of the NFL in the last decade and you'll see that we have been very fortunate to have a great GM and coach who had the foresight to make that happen. Thompson had the nerve to draft Rogers when everyone passed him up and then let maybe the greatest Packer leave . MM coached him up with the help of sitting and learning from a Packer great. If some of you can recall Rogers did not look like an NFL QB those first two pre seasons. We were all puzzled when he moved up for Matthews and scratched our heads when he drafted an unknown receiver from Kansas St when we had more urgent needs. The three afore mentioned players are Packer greats. It became obvious that Thompson's and MM's time was up ,but to bash them is disrespectful and foolish.
March 27, 2019 at 11:56 am
Please, quit apologizing.
TT/MM were carried by great QB play (AR) for nearly their entire careers in GB. --- The last two losing seasons & a decimated roster. -- All on TT/MM.
March 27, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Total nonsense. These guys that TT brought onto the team....Woodson, Collins, Matthews, Raji, Nelson, etc. had every bit as much to do with our success as Aaron Rodgers.
If the roster is decimated, what the hell was our Director of Player Personnel doing? Every single player who leaves the Packers is picked up almost immediately by another team.
March 27, 2019 at 12:10 pm
OSchool - at it again. -- Rewording posts & rewriting history.
Try this scenario in your spare time. -- Take away AR from the Pack since 2008 & try to imagine the last ten years. -- It ain't pretty.
March 27, 2019 at 05:31 pm
People said the same thing about the guy before him. "Oh...when Favre is gone we'll suck forever". I said that we'd win more games, more playoff games, and more titles in the first five years without him than we did in the last 5 with him. And I was right.
Let's assume Rodgers didn't fall to us in 2005. Let's assume we didn't use trade, or free agency, to fill the QB position. Let's assume in 2005 we drafted Kyle Orton in the 3rd round as a backup.
And let's assume that beginning in 2008, we were bad enough to be drafting early since Favre was gone.
Joe Flacco. Matt Ryan. Colin Kaepernick. Andy Dalton. Nick Foles. Russell Wilson. Any of those names ring a bell? Except for Dalton, they were all good enough to take a team to the Super Bowl.
Personally, after the 2004 season, I was urging that we trade Favre and trade for Drew Brees, who was languishing on the bench in San Diego.
See, I'm a guy that thinks football is a team game, and although the QB is the most important position, every single week a bunch of teams win games without Aaron Rodgers and I think we could too.
March 27, 2019 at 05:33 pm
That's an accusation. Care to back it up with an example?
March 27, 2019 at 06:29 pm
You must of cut your hair before making your comments.
March 27, 2019 at 02:30 pm
Why do so many people think that there only two types of players, Stars and Bums. If a players not a Star than he's no good and we should get rid of him. Every body on a team can not be a Star (there's a salary cap), takes a lot of players to make up a team.
March 29, 2019 at 09:56 am
I agree with the ratings, although I would give Spriggs an F-. Second round pick disgrace.
I'm a little confused about Trevor Davis he seemed to have made all the NFL type catches in college. Confused about him.
Kyle Murphy I thought was pretty good when healthy.


text:
Today I weighed in at 11 stone 3lbs which means I only have 1lb to lose before I reach my target weight. In total I have lost 1 Stone 6lbs!
It has taken me much longer than I hoped, but, still, I am nearly there now and I look so much better and feel a lot more confident in my appearance.
My hamstring injury is healing well and I have worked back up to 40 minute sessions on the treadmill. (although still at a much slower pace) I am just happy to be able to walk for forty minutes before I feel a pulling pain. I do 40 squats a day, my weights and my daily steps are between 13,000 and 17,500 so I am definitely heading in the right direction.
Healthy Eating & Meals
I love the Kitchen Sanctuary Website and they do some pretty amazing Healthy Meals. I made this for myself and my daughter and we both enjoyed it. Coming in at just over 500 calories per serving it's a perfect meal for my weight loss journey. I added a little Parmesan to my meal which increased the calories slightly.
Ingredients for the Chicken & Red Pepper Pasta
- 10 sprays fry-light or other 1-cal per spray oil
- 17.5 oz (500g) boneless chicken thighs (any skin and visible fat removed), cut into chunks
- large pinch salt and pepper
- 1 large brown onion peeled and chopped
- 3 cloves garlic peeled and minced
- 1 red pepper chopped (seeds discarded)
- 2 portobello mushrooms sliced
- 1 chicken stock cube or 1 tsp bouillon for gluten free
- 2 tbsp tomato puree
- 1 tsp dried oregano
- 28 oz (800g) tinned chopped tomatoes
- 10.5 oz (300g) dry spaghetti (gluten free if required)
- Handful of small basil leaves to serve
- 1/4 tsp chill flakes
- Heat a large frying pan and spray with the fry-light.
- Add in the chicken and cook for 8-10 minutes until the outside of the chicken starts to brown (if you don't move it around to much it will brown a lot quicker).
- Add in the onion and cook for a further 5 minutes until softened.
- Add in the garlic and red pepper and cook for 2 more minutes, then add in the mushrooms.
- Crumble on the stock cube (or bouillon), add the tomato puree and oregano and stir to combine.
- Add the tinned tomatoes, stir and bring to a gentle simmer. Simmer for 15-20 minutes.
- Whilst the sauce is simmering, fill a large pan with boiling water from the kettle and add the spaghetti. Cook for 10-12 minutes until al dente.
- Drain the spaghetti then divide between 4 bowls. Top with the chicken and sauce and sprinkle on the basil leaves and chilli flakes before serving.
Can I make it gluten free?
Yes, use gluten free pasta and gluten free stock cubes.
Can I make it ahead?
I don't recommend cooking the spaghetti ahead, but the sauce can be made ahead, then quickly cooled, covered and refrigerated.Reheat in a pan, stirring occasionally until piping hot throughout (about 7-8 minutes). You can also reheat in the microwave if you prefer. Reheated at the highest setting and give it a stir every minute. It will take 5-8 minutes, it's done when it's piping hot throughout.
Nutritional information is per serving – including the spaghetti.
Nutritional Information
Calories: 521kcal | Carbohydrates: 72g | Protein: 37g | Fat: 9g | Saturated Fat: 2g | Cholesterol: 119mg | Sodium: 651mg | Potassium: 1149mg | Fiber: 6g | Sugar: 11g | Vitamin A: 1236IU | Vitamin C: 60mg | Calcium: 107mg | Iron: 5mg
Johnny Parky
After a difficult time for Johnny and more recently a busy time on his radio show with April being Parkinson's Awareness month and 11th of April World Parkinson's Day he still managed 20mins on his treadmill and plans to increase on his time each day.
Johnny saw his Neurologist recently ( his last Neurologist appointment was over 3 years ago). He discussed Johnnys weight amongst many things and Johnny explained about his weight loss attempt. Johnny was told he was under medicated for his Parkinson's Symptoms and needs an increase. We hope the increase helps Johnny.
My Weekly Target Goals
This week I really am going for my target weight, I only have 1lb to lose now and I'm confident I can reach this in a week if I really work hard at it. So please check in next week and see if I succeeded.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 not working as expected
A Former User last edited by A Former User
So I will first home my machine and basically I want that homed position to actually be the starting point of my work piece other then obviously dropping the Z axis down to my working surface. So I do that then I try to implement the G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 command my CNC moves roughly 200mm in both the X and Y directions then displays G0/G1 target position outside of machine limits. And then moves to roughly the middle on the X axis and stops.
I have macros set up to move it to all the corners of the work surface including centers at each axis and they all work exactly as expected. Not sure why the G10 command isnt.
The file im trying to run is saved in Grbl (mm)(gcode) in case that has anything to do with it.
Are you G28 homing before that G10? For machine limits, not your desired work coords.
@Danal Not sure if it makes a difference but im just hitting HOMEALL on the DWC. Not manually keying the G28 command.
Great! Homeall is G28 under the covers.
OK so you manually jog the tip of the tool to the corner of your work, in XYZ. You then issue G10 L20 P1 X0Y0Z0, correct? And all those moves occur... and they should not. The expected result is to set the origin of WCS (work coordinate system) G54, correct?
It works correctly for me, on
Board: Duet 3 MB6HC (MB6HC)
DSF Version: 220.127.116.11
Firmware: RepRapFirmware for Duet 3 MB6HC v0.6 or 1.0 3.01-RC2 (2020-02-18b1)
Also works fine on
Board: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
Firmware: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 2.05.1 (2020-02-09b1)
Duet WiFi Server Version: 1.23
I tried P1 and P2, and switched between G54 and G55. Everything was what I expected.
Please post your config.g, and any other commands you are issuing beyond Homeall, Jog, G10 L20...
@Danal So yes I hit the homeall and then I move the tip to my front left corner of my work piece and hit The G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 command. Then I pick my job that I want to run, thats when it seems to move in the XY directions and give me the G1/G0 error. Do I need to do something with the G54 command or is that what the G10 L20 command is doing essentially.
@chichirod said in G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 not working as expected:
@Danal So yes I hit the homeall and then I move the tip to my front left corner of my work piece and hit The G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 command. Then I pick my job that I want to run, thats when it seems to move in the XY directions and give me the G1/G0 error. Do I need to do something with the G54 command or is that what the G10 L20 command is doing essentially.
AH... got it. Couple of questions:
After the G10 L20 command, does the XY position on the Duet Web dashboard read 0.0 for both?
And, your machine should be "in G54"... but it is possible that it is in a different work coordinate system. If you enter "G54" on the console (after the G10 L20), do the XY on the dashboard now read 0.0?
And, last, can you attache the gcode file for the job you are trying to run? Use the upload arrow in the box, the rightmost of the little icons that show up when you are posting.
A Former User last edited by A Former User
So after the G10 L20 command, XYand Z all say 0.0.
When I enter G54 after the G10 L20 the Xand Y still say 0.0 but Z says 12.71 which is my safety limit above my work piece
After I hit the G54 command I try to run my cut again and it says 21.5% complete but nothing has moved.
Your gcode file looks fine.
Given that the machine is "always" in G54, I'd suggest avoiding offseting that work coordinate system. I would get G54 back to matching machine zero, via:
- Home the machine
- Enter G54 G10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0
Make sure that machine zero and the zeros shown in the Web console match to your satisfaction.
Then when ready to cut:
- Home
- Manual jog to corner of workpiece (including Z)
Note the P2 instead of P1.
Now, verify that G54 shows some large numbers in XYZ on web console, and that G55 shows 0.0 on all three. Maybe even do a couple of 1mm jogs to absolutely ensure the coords are updating.
Be sure you are in G55, and try your job.
@Danal Ok I tried your suggestions and sort of got it to work. I re created another file to the same dimensions as what my cut area should be from what i have entered in the config file. 2498x1245. I did home it right from the very front corner at the endstops so in theory it should cut from there....correct? Anyways it gave me the G0/G1 error. So I made the box smaller only by 10mm in all directions and same error. Then I just made a large circle in the middle 980mm that worked no problem. So I just need to see what the max area is. However I assume it should be the X2498 Y1245 Z165 that I have told it.
; Configuration file for Duet 3 (firmware version 3)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.8 on Tue Feb 25 2020 22:03:45 GMT-0700 (Mountain Standard Time)
; General preferences
G90 ; send absolute coordinates...
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Duet 3" ; set printer name
; Drives
M569 P0.0 S1 ; X physical drive 0.0 goes forwards
M569 P0.1 S0 ; Y physical drive 0.1 goes backwards
M569 P0.2 S0 ; Z physical drive 0.2 goes backwards
M569 P0.3 S0 ; X2 physical drive 0.3 goes backwards
M584 X0.0:0.3 Y0.1 Z0.2 ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E80.00 ; set steps per mm
M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z120.00 E900.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X10000.00 Y10000.00 Z1800.00 E10000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z20.00 E500.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X2240 Y2240 Z3840 E2240 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout
; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
M208 X2498 Y1245 Z165 S0 ; set axis maxima
; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"io0.in" ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin io0.in
M574 Y1 S1 P"io1.in" ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Y via pin io1.in
M574 Z2 S1 P"io2.in" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Z via pin io2.in
; Z-Probe
M558 P0 H5 F120 T6000 ; disable Z probe but set dive height, probe speed and travel speed
M557 X15:215 Y15:195 S20 ; define mesh grid
; Heaters
;M308 S0 P"temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin temp0
;M950 H0 C"out0" T0 ; create bed heater output on out0 and map it to sensor 0
;M143 H0 S0 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 0C
;M307 H0 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
;M140 H0 ; map heated bed to heater 0
; Fans
; Tools
;M563 P1 S"XYZ-Probe" ; Define XYZ Touch Probe Tool
M563 S"Spindle" P0 D0 H ; Define Tool 0 (our Spindle)
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
; Custom settings
M564 S1 H1 ; Disable jog commands when not homed
M140 H-1 ; Disable heated bed
M501 ; Load Stored Parameters
;M106 P2 I-1 ; Disable Fan2
;M307 H1 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; Disable Heater 1 so we can use it for a tool
M453 P1 R24000 F100 ; Set to CNC mode, using Tool 0, 24000 Max RPM, PWM Frequency 100hz
@chichirod said in G10 L20 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 not working as expected:
M208 X2498 Y1245 Z165 S0 ; set axis maxima
Yep, you should only get an error if your moves would go beyond the above, or below 0.
Are any of the moves arc? G2 or G3?
@Danal No theres no G2/G3 arc moves. Ive been running fake cuts this morning and it seems to be reacting perfectly. Thank you for your help and patients. Cant wait to make this thing work.


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F1 highlights: Button fastest in Australian GP practice
The best moments from Friday's practice sessions in Melbourne ahead of the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.
McLaren's Jenson Button set the fastest time of a day disrupted by rain, with his team-mate Lewis Hamilton close behind in the first session.
Mercedes' Michael Schumacher was quickest in the afternoon, but the wet track painted an unclear picture of form ahead of Saturday's qualifying.
Available to UK users only.


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WinterArts showcase coming to Eastgate Shopping Center
Looking for unique, yet affordable, gifts to help complete your holiday shopping? This year's WinterArts will be offering a showcase of items created by local and regional artists — just the place to find unique, special gifts for those on your list. Back for the eighth year, WinterArts will have art crafted in glass, metal, wood, fiber, clay, plus jewelry, paintings and more.
"WinterArts is staged by ArtWorks Foundation, a 501c3 nonprofit organization focused on helping artists to grow, in their business and their work," explained show curator Greg Belz. "They do this through exhibitions like WinterArts, art2wear and Art Paired."
This year WinterArts is in a new location, 5058 Park Avenue, in the Eastgate Shopping Center. Located next door to Frame Corner, more than 35 artists were selected to participate in this year's show. Some items available for purchase will include turned wood objects by Dennis Paullus, whimsical ceramic sculptures by Becky Zimer, blown glass by Thomas Spake, and metal works from a group of blacksmiths at the National Ornamental Metal Museum.
Looking for something with a dash of metallic flair? Virginia Fisher will have her woven copper baskets at this show, and Ben Caldwell will have his copper and horn serving pieces.
And if you're looking for unique jewelry, unlike many items in other shows, the pieces in WinterArts contain components that are all handmade by artists such as Dorothy Northern, Nancie Roark, Susan Moody, Cathy Talbot and Linda Livaudais. Hand-made furniture by Stephen Crump, and sculptures and drawings by Jin and John Powell will also be available for purchase.
"ArtWorks Foundation is also building toward awarding scholarships for advanced study workshops at schools for Fine-Craft, and establishing an endowment to fund Emergency Relief Grants to help area artists resume careers derailed by disasters or catastrophic illness," said Belz.
So a purchase at WinterArts will serve many purposes. Beyond fulfilling a gift need, it will help support the local and regional craftspeople, both now and in the future.
WintersArts will be open daily from Nov. 26 though Christmas Eve, with hours Mondays – Wednesdays, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.; Thursdays, 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.; Fridays, 10 a.m. to 9 p.m.; Saturdays, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.; and Sundays, noon to 5 p.m.
In addition to the regular shopping hours, WinterArts hosts a "Meet the Artists" reception every Friday night from 5 - 9 p.m. For more information about WinterArts, visit winterartsmemphis.com or WinterArts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.


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|Самолеты (сортировка по:)
Страна: США
Год: 1914
|Thomas - B-3 / B-4 - 1914 - США
|Thomas - D-2/HS/D-5 - 1915 - США
|J.Wegg - General Dynamics Aircraft and Their Predecessors since 1912 /Putnam/
|Prototype T-2 at Ithaca (90hp Austro-Daimler).
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|Three-quarter view from the front of the Thomas military tractor biplane.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|View of the fuselage of the Thomas military tractor biplane, showing engine mounting, seating arrangement, and chassis.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|FROM THE ITHACA WORKS OF THOMAS BROTHERS AEROPLANE CO. - 1. Fuselage of a Thomas military tractor. 2. A batch of Thomas fuselages ready for the wings. 3. Fuselages ready for shipment. 4. Thomas military tractor going through preliminary tests at the Ithaca flying ground.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|One of the latest Thomas military biplanes, with 90 h.p. Curtiss engine, just off for a trial spin at Ithaca. Incidentally, this view gives an idea of the splendid facilities possessed by the Thomas Brothers at Ithaca. They have two large aerodromes beside Lake Cayuga, one being reserved for testing new machines and the other for the flying school, while for flying-boat work, Lake Cayuga, which is 40 miles long and four miles wide, is available. The hills seen in the distance are at the other side of the lake.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|CANADIANS LEARN TO FLY IN THE UNITED STATES. - So many Canadians are desirous of learning to operate aeroplanes for war service that the aviation schools in Canada cannot accommodate all of them. Many are being instructed in the United States. The above group, photographed in front of a Thomas warplane at Ithaca, N.Y., includes (left to right) Frank McGill, 100-yard and 1-mile Canadian swimming champion; George Hodgson, 100-yard Olympic swimming champion; Frank Burn side, the instructor in aviation at the Thomas School; Phillip Fisher and Hugh Peck.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|The Thomas military tractor in flight.
|Jane's All The World Aircraft 1919 /Jane's/
|Thomas tractor biplane, 90 h.p. Curtiss motor, rising from ground.
|Jane's All The World Aircraft 1919 /Jane's/
|Thomas tractor biplane, 90 h.p. Curtiss engine, just about to land.
|O.Thetford - British Naval Aircraft since 1912 /Putnam/
|Журнал - Flight за 1917 г.
|Mounting and housing of water-cooled engines.
|Журнал - Flight за 1915 г.
|THE THOMAS MILITARY BIPLANE. - Plan, side and front elevation.


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WEST ORANGE, NJ — A resident living across the street from the West Orange Recycling Center said she is fed up with what she described as a horrible odor emanating from the site in recent weeks, and she has taken action in an attempt to stop it.
Leigh-Ann Zaolino filed two complaints with the Essex Regional Health Commission after inspectors visited her home and smelled the air upwind to determine that the odor — as the New Jersey air pollution investigation guidelines put it — "unreasonably interfered with the enjoyment of life or property." But the township has not yet been officially notified of either complaint. According to the commission's environmental program coordinator David Pilas, one of the reports is being processed while the other is under review.
Once the township receives the complaints, Zaolino said she hopes it will act to make the recycling center's tenant, Reliable Wood Products, prevent the spread of odor as regulations require. Though she said it frequently smells bad near her house as a result of the work done at the center, Zaolino said recently it has been especially bad. She called the odor "brutal" and "offensive," saying the town should hold the tenant accountable.
"They're impacting the quality of my life," Zaolino told the West Orange Chronicle in a Nov. 6 phone interview. "It's been nice (outside) the past two weeks, but they're making it so I can't open my windows because it smells like a sewage plant."
Zaolino is not the only one who has noticed the problem. Neighbor Dennis Alabi told the Chronicle in a Nov. 9 phone interview that the smell outside his house has gotten worse than usual in recent weeks. Alabi said he has also noticed a thicker layer of dust — dust being another byproduct of living near the recycling center — on his car, which is why he thinks the site is doing something new to bring about such changes.
But Reliable Wood Products Vice President Eugene Ciarkowski told the Chronicle that, to his knowledge, nothing different is being done at the recycling center that would cause a worse smell in the area. Ciarkowski said any odor smelled in the area is the "natural" aroma of organic material, adding that the material is handled properly at all times.
"Best practices are followed with the product, its movement and with fire prevention," Ciarkowski said in a Nov. 9 phone interview.
Mayor Robert Parisi also pointed out that a complaint from another resident — which, according to the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection's complaints database, was filed on Nov. 3 by someone who noticed a strong odor that burned her eyes — was investigated by commission inspectors who found no odor violation taking place. Wayne DeFeo, the environmental consultant who inspects the recycling center on behalf of the township, told the Chronicle that he checked out the site in response to the recent issues raised by residents and found Reliable Wood Products to be in compliance with all regulations. In fact, DeFeo said the only odor he has noticed during his inspections was the smell of the organic material onsite, though he did say that detecting smell is a subjective process that depends a lot on the direction the wind is blowing.
For that reason, Zaolino said one cannot always trust a passed air test as conclusive proof that there is no problem. But her issue with the recycling center goes beyond the current bad odor in the air. And though she said things had been going relatively well with the center since Reliable took over the site as a tenant — as compared to when she first moved to West Orange in 2002, when she regularly complained to the mayor and Township Council about the previous tenant — she said things seem to be "backsliding" in the past few years, ever since Harvest Power became involved as a tenant. Parisi said Harvest Power departed the site roughly a year ago, but Zaolino said the situation has not improved.
Specifically, Zaolino said she has observed many instances of what she believes are violations to regulations the recycling center is mandated to follow, most notably the size of the site's windrows. Windrows, or composting piles, are required by law to be no more than 6 feet high and 14 feet wide. But in Zaolino's estimation, the piles she has seen are much higher, though she has not measured them. She said she once saw a windrow that she believes was "four stories high."
Related to that, Zaolino said she thinks the recycling center is taking in too many leaves, sticks and brush onsite. Regulations allow a maximum of 7,500 cubic yards or processed material — otherwise known as mulch — and 7,500 cubic yards of unprocessed tree parts, wood chips and brush. Yet, from what she has seen, she said she believes a lot more than that is being kept on the site, though she has not measured it, and that that was the cause of the fire that occurred there in April.
The reason so much material is being taken in, Zaolino believes, is that many non-residents are dropping leaves off since the town does not make anyone show proof of residency like other municipalities. Plus, she said she believes Essex County is now using the facility. She urged the town to do something — perhaps issuing stickers to homeowners — to ensure that only residents can take advantage of the recycling center.
Some of Zaolino's claims are backed up by DeFeo's inspection reports, which have noted in the past that the amount of material collected was not within acceptable limits and that the windrows exceeded the appropriate height and width. The NJDEP website also has two open violations listed for the recycling center. The first is a Sept. 22, 2014, failed solid waste inspection, which found that the center had the following: windrows 12 feet high and 32 feet wide; excessive amounts of dust blowing off site; 26,576 cubic yards of processed material; and 22,554 cubic yards of unprocessed material. The second is an Oct. 20 failed water quality inspection for discharging storm water without a valid NJDEP permit.
But since the summer, DeFeo's inspection reports show that the issues previously mentioned have been corrected. In fact, DeFeo said the site currently does not even have windrows. And the fire was not caused by too much material on site, he said — it was a spontaneous combustion brought on by the weather and dry conditions. A small amount of brush could ignite for the same reason, he explained.
DeFeo further stated that the solid waste NJDEP violations had also been resolved well before the Nov. 8, 2014, deadline.
As for the water quality NJDEP violation, he said the township has applied for the necessary permit, which it is waiting to receive.
Overall, aside from the water permit, DeFeo said the recycling center is in compliance with all laws. And Ciarkowski said that shows the recycling center is in good standing.
"It's run properly according to DEP regulations," Ciarkowski said.
Parisi also refuted Zaolino's protest that the township is not doing enough to police Reliable Wood Products' management of the recycling center. The mayor pointed out that the site is one of the most inspected in the state, with DeFeo visiting randomly twice a month, in addition to NJDEP and commission inspections. State law only requires the center to be inspected once a year by the NJDEP.
Regarding the leaf issue, Ciarkowski said the recycling center only accepts leaves from residents and landscapers who do work in town. Essex County public information director Anthony Puglisi said the county only drops off its leaves at its own facility in the South Mountain Reservation. While the mayor said that proof of residency is something that could be looked into, he does not believe leaf dumping by non-residents is a real issue.
"I've never heard anyone on the vendor's side or residents concerned about whether it's residents who might dump a few bags of leaves there," Parisi said in a Nov. 6 phone interview. "I don't know of that being a problem, and I don't see the reason to assign the solution to a problem that doesn't exist."
And though Zaolino and Alabi both said they wished that the township would move recycling services to somewhere else, Parisi said that is not going to happen.
"The town has no intention of getting rid of the recycling center," Parisi said. "It serves a vital need to this community, one that would be irreplaceable. So we'll continue to stay on top of it and work with the DEP to make sure it's compliant. But we have no intention of changing its operation other than to see continue to be in compliance."
Still, Zaolino and Alabi said they are unhappy with the way the recycling center has intruded on their lives for virtually the entire time they have lived in West Orange. Due to the frequently-present odor, Alabi said he hardly even opens his windows. And after 15 years of complaining to the township without result, he said he is done living in West Orange.
"I just want to get out," Alabi said in a Nov. 9 phone interview, adding that he hopes the township will buy his property if he cannot sell it because of the recycling center.
Zaolino, who said she has had chronic sinus problems ever since moving across from the center, said relocating has crossed her mind before. But she said her biggest fear is that her property value will be hurt by the center.
Whether or not she moves, Zaolino said she hopes she sees a change with how the recycling center is managed moving forward, so that she can stop complaining.
"I think they can be doing a better job, and they're not," Zaolino said. "I just want them to be a good neighbor."


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I'm following you Joan - Wonder what's around the corner?ReplyDelete
Doesn't appeal to me (and I don't have an iphone) but people get some amazing results with those cameras.ReplyDelete
Great shot. Are you using the Blogger App?ReplyDelete
I have used the App once and it was very easy but my photo was terrible!
I wanna come too. Iphones take good shots. Both my son in laws use nothing else and they take some great shots.ReplyDelete
Some people do seem to get great shots with their iPhones maybe I will do better with practise.ReplyDelete
Mark, no I am not using the blogger app. I am not much of an app person. My iPhone is pretty much a phone, except when I have no other camera :-)
I've forgotten where we are?ReplyDelete
Exactly which bit of sthn nsw are we in?
Bermagui, South Coast NSW.ReplyDelete


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Episode 14 Now Available!
The latest movie news, discussion, and more with Joe from Guy At The Movies and Sean from Math Teacher Movies!
THIS WEEK: A bit of a loopy episode this week, we discuss the She-Hulk casting, a ton of animation news, the delays of Marvel movies, and more! Oh, and Nicolas Cage impressions… for real.
Listen today wherever you get your podcasts.