text:
In case anyone thought that only those having faith are pro-life, I offer you the Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League. For links to other niche pro-life groups, such as Anarchists for Life, Leftout (which may have been subsumed by Consistent Life), and Libertarians for Life, check out their links page.
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Jerry NoraView September 17, 2004
"Instead, I am a bottom-up atheist who started with his own life, perceptions, intellect, and abilities and after years of trying valiantly to make religion work for him discovered that, try as he might, he could not see the supernatural things that others claim to see."
Well, Christian metaphysics often derived from personal experience as well, to say nothing of Revelation. Metaphysics is moreover not necessarily a "guiding philosophy" as you mentioned above, but the foundation or substrate for guiding principles. You are reluctant to find some sort of purely power-driven, primal reason behind Christian councils, yet you seem convinced that there will always be such a reason lurking in the corner. That smells of a philosophical worldview, even if you don't consider it one. Purging oneself of philosophies would require a metaphilosophy that dictates that philosophies are bad. If one is anencephalic or disastrously, then one may live without a philosophy.
Philosophy's etymology means love of wisdom–your frequenting of this site and your own blog seem to point towards a concern for the bigger issues, so subjectively you seem to have a love of wisdom, and thus a sort of philosophy by default. Moreover, I could say that a philosophy's function is as a guide or even just a set of heuristics for organizing and explaining the world around you, and guiding further action. You explain the world through a particular lens (e.g., Nicea etc.) Yours may be a spare, minimalistic philosophy, but a denial of philosophy seems bizarre.
If you are just trying to "be", why are you so passionate about religion (in the negative sense)? Does it help you find food or meet some other bodily necessity that you may "be"?
…below the level of systems.
…er, I mean "when the circumstances present themselves"
"Regarding Theomorph's critique of the Biblical case against abortion, perhaps Funkydung could open up another entry on that. It looks like we could get into some good discussion on Gods atemporal nature (i.e., how He can knows us before we are knit in the womb) and predestination. I don't have time to start my own entry on that. New PhD program 'n'at.
I just got back from the Catholic Engaged Encounter retreat, so I'm way behind on email, news, and blogging. Once I catch up, I'll be sure to start the new entry you requested, Jer.
The conversation is interesting and enlightening. Many thanks to all participants. 🙂 Good conversation and mutual edification is all a small-time blogger can really hope for.
Also– this has been a very enjoyable thread, even though I have been busy and tired and slightly ill for most of the weekend. 🙂
Jerry NoraView September 15, 2004
Constantine was not necessary for Nicea–the Church has often hesitated to define things until the debates get particularly rancorous or the issues must be addressed to maintain general Church integrity. Which Emporer declared Trent, for instance? Or the dozens of other major and minor councils of Church history? One datum does not a trend make.
BTW, how has materialism shaped our culture? It too, is a metaphysical system.
Council of Trent? What, so they just got together for the hell of it to standardize the mass? The Protestants had nothing to do with it? And what were those Protestants riled up over, anyway? Theology? Or oppression? The theology was just a handy way to break the bonds of their oppression. Wonder why Martin Luther didn't come up with his doctrines until they were able to serve that function. Funny the way that worked.
But I'm not gonna go through every theological shift in church history and explain how it was driven by real-world administrative, economic, or political problems. One, because I'm just dead tired with a headache; two, because it would take a book and until somebody pays me a decent advance to get that going the chances of it happening are minute.
Second, sorry, but that whole "materialism is metaphysics, too" thing just plain annoys me. Sure, materialism as an a priori assumption is just as faulty as any other a priori assumption, but materialism does not have to be such a thing. In my case, materialism was the result of experience and study, not the starting point. That is, I am not a top-down atheist who just "decided" one day that God did not exist, and then applied materialism to everything he saw. Instead, I am a bottom-up atheist who started with his own life, perceptions, intellect, and abilities and after years of trying valiantly to make religion work for him discovered that, try as he might, he could not see the supernatural things that others claim to see. Hence, you might say I am a materialist by nature, not by philosophy. I don't discount the possibility of nonmaterial causes (as at least one of my dearest friends will attest); I have just never seen any.
Like I said, materialism is not my guiding philosophy. In fact, I do my best to purge myself of guiding philosophies. I have said it many times, and I will say it again, but the fact that I am an "atheist" is only an accident of linguistics. I am not protesting anything. I am just trying to Be, and trying to figure out why theists like you insist that I am not what I am, i.e., that I practice a metaphysical perspective precisely because I say I don't.
I don't think "materialism" has shaped much of anything. In fact, I think -isms in general have very little do with the movement of history. I am not a fan of -isms or structures or paradigms or ideologies or religions or anything. History moves by human agents acting individually (and occasionally but rarely collectively). If those individual agents are affected by -isms or ideologies, they are rarely affected by such things alone. For instance, radical Islamic terrorists can justify their goals with their theology, but I don't think their theology is the source of those goals.
My view of history is difficult because eschews the common historiographical myths and asks that we look for more complex and diverse causes, things that exist belo
I still don't think it's tenable to say that modern Americans are more squeamish about abortion than ancient Romans simply because of Christianity. My inclination on this question is to look toward technology and the industrial separation between life and violence. Some people use the word "alienation."
I know I previously mentioned the White Male Power Structure as the biggest force in making abortion a moral issue in the United States, but now I'll take a different tack. I don't think it's coincidental that the American anti-abortion coincides with the rise of American urbanism. This is the era when people started eating meat without seeing it slaughtered, thinking of guns more as weapons than as tools, and generally finding themselves shielded from blood and gore as they had never been before. Our medical system has become more sanitized and impersonal, too. When a person dies, we call professionals too haul off the corpse with a minimum of contact. Stuff like that. I think that "alienation" from violence and death has made us more squeamish when we do encounter it, and I think that probably has some bearing on our squeamishness about abortion, too.
At any rate, I think there are a lot more historical factors that have effected the rise of abortion as a moral issue than simply Christianity. Metaphysics and ideology will almost always get trumped by tangible circumstances and economic factors. Look at the way Christianity has evolved theologically and the big changes have always coincided with non-theological factors.
For example, Christians didn't really hammer out an orthodoxy until the council at Nicea, which Constantine called because as a leader he was fed up with bickering and arguing over theology. Hence it was the problem of central authority and administration that led to the consolidation of Christian beliefs into a singular creed. That kind of thing is significant, I think.
Or look at the way Christianity has changed as Western Christians have become more wealthy and bourgeois. The theological differences between Christianity in the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere are quite pronounced. Southern hemisphere Christians are way more spiritualist, supernaturalist, superstitious, and demonstrative. They're growing in numbers, too, and current demographic trends show the authority center of Christianity shifting to the southern hemisphere in the coming century. That will be interesting if it plays out.
Anyway…it's not that ideology and metaphysics aren't important, but that they are always responses to tangibles. That's what I see, at least.
No time to write a weighty tome here, which is what this subject really deserves. But I've always thought the "religious" argument again abortion was rather hollow, viz. "human life begins at conception." This is a demonstrable medical/scientific fact that neither needs nor gains any support from the Quran, Bible, Book of Mormon, etc.
The question is and has always been whether that human life deserves protection and in what circumstances–and this always struck me as rather non-sectarian. For example, surely anyone, regardless of theological ilk, would be appalled that someone terminate a pregnancy only for sex selection.
This is all to say that I am pro-life not because my "religion" mandates it, but because it seems only fair to protect the life of a pre-born human against the convenience of its mother/parents or the society at large–a viewpoint, I am pleased to note, is shared by at least a few folks who don't share my "religious" views.
BTW, Mr. Dung, to what does…
Next year it will be about half the size of the pet food market and is fast approaching the total worldwide sales of panty hose. – James Finke, President, Commodore International Ltd. (1982)
… refer? The PC?
Thx for the links….
BTW, check out my URL to for another presidential alternative.
Okay, let's back up.
One: Haloscan is limited, and in lieu of emailing you a thesis, for which I do not have the time anyway, referring you to a common source seems prudent. I was not unprepared, I just thought referring you to my source was a good idea, rather than just throwing Roman history at you, rather like how you told me that 50% of 18th century pregnancies ended in abortion. (I doubt it, but tell me your source!)
Two: I was not busting on you re. your lack of attachment to the fetus. It was poorly worded, but the fact of the matter is that you seem neutral to or (at least in some cases) approving of abortion. Ergo, the fetus as person does not bother you.
I find that Roman history has interesting parallels to modern America, and makes for a provocative mirror. I do think that we are often unaware of how Christianity has changed our society, and I thought and still think that you are underestimating its importance. I got this idea from the fact that you were using the spectra of ideological positions amongst theists and atheists to show that metaphysics is not terribly important. On the contrary, it is important, and the Christian metaphysic (broadly speaking) has had a huge impact on how people think.
Regarding abortion in history: while it has always been present, modern technology has made abortions more efficacious. Abortions had previously existed often through folk remedies and generally on the low-down. I have no idea how one could demonstrate that they were half as prevalent as you claimed.
The Catholic Church and (at least until the 20th Century) most Protestant denominations were against abortion (could Funky Dung back me up on that part about the Protestants?). The suffragists like Susan B. Anthony were outspoken against abortion on the grounds that it was wrong for a woman to destroy her child, and it was wrong for society to put her in a position where she would feel desperate enough to do so (they were not merely opposed to it on the grounds they were unsafe).
Yes, the "right to abortion" did not become a big deal till later, and some states were more liberal with abortion laws than others. However, even after Roe v. Wade, I would be very skeptical that our acceptance of abortion is anywhere near where it was in Rome. I offer my previous citations again so you can check my reasoning. I am not trying to have someone else do my thinking. I think an atheist would respect my desire to keep as hard a standard on evidence as possible! 😉 Ergo I cite history books.
So I repeat my thesis that a Christian metaphysic, though implicit, is highly important in shaping people's view of abortion, even in non-religious Americans. I say this with all due respect to Theomorph's very intelligent and challenging arguments, but I do think that his critiques overlook some important facts. I did not intend it as an accusation of ignorance, and hope that he does not consider it so, just as I will not consider mention of Christian theology "dropping off into an abyss of lunacy" to be an accusation either. 😉
Roman history provides a useful study in that we may look at pre-Christian and Christian Western History. While Theomorph may not be a Roman (especially in the light of his Hellenic screenname), comparing his vision of abortion with that of the Classical Age and that of mainstream America may show how Christianity has change popular conceptions of abortion. (Get it, conception? ;))
Regarding Theomorph's critique of the Biblical case against abortion, perhaps Funkydung could open up another entry on that. It looks like we could get into some good discussion on Gods atemporal nature (i.e., how He can knows us before we are knit in the womb) and predestination. I don't have time to start my own entry on that. 🙂 New PhD program 'n'at.
Regarding stats, I was writing from memory so I can't vouch for that blanket figure of 50% (though I did recently hear a relative mention the same number from a class she had taken, so perhaps there is a source for this somewhere). However, here are some bits and pieces from a book I do have at hand (The Story the Soldiers Wouldn't Tell: Sex in the Civil War by Thomas P. Lowry):
In 1860 Edwin Hale wrote On the Homeopathic Treatment of Abortion and estimated that 10% of married women had had an abortion and that 20% of all pregnancies ended in abortion. In 1866 he revised that figure upward to 25%.
In 1868 Horatio Spencer wrote Criminal Abortion and concluded that in New York City 20% of all pregnancies ended in abortion. This was based only on reported abortions so is probably lower than the actual number.
Just after the Civil War J.C. Stone conducted a study and concluded that 20% of all pregnancies end in abortion.
Various state medical societies reported in the 1870s the following rates for abortion: Maine, 16%; Illinois, 20%, Wisconsin, 30%, and Michigan 34%.
(The current rate in the U.S. is something like 25-30%, I think, though I'm not sure.)
Since I have not made it clear, my personal take on abortion goes like this:
As a medical procedure, I think it is gruesome.
As a moral or ethical issue, I think there are no definitive arguments either way. I.e., abortion is amoral rather than immoral, in my opinion.
As a means of birth control and population control in a world where most people are irresponsible about sex and it is foolish to hope they will ever be otherwise, I think abortion is regretfully necessary.
As a legal matter, I think we would do our society a great disservice to criminalize a procedure that, while regretful, is far safer when regulated.
As a matter of women's rights, I must admit to sympathy for women on this one. Men have it easy when it comes to reproduction; they can cut and run while women cannot. Conceivably, a man could impregnate a woman under the false impression that he is going to stick around, and then decide to leave after conception. If men can shirk the burden of reproduction, I think that in a sexually egalitarian society women ought to have the same ability. I know that's a controversial way to look at it, but it's how I feel. It makes me uncomfortable, too, because it means admitting that people are irresponsible about reproduction, and to be honest, in my own life this is a pretty darned weighty issue, and I don't plan on messing it up.
To sum up: I agree with former president Bill Clinton, who said abortion ought to be "safe, legal, and rare." I do not, however, believe in abortion as a replacement for contraception. If people want to have sex without making babies, there are much better ways to achieve that goal.
The moral/political "issue" of abortion only showed up when the practice became common enough among white middle class married women (instead of just poor, non-white, or non-married women) that their white middle class husbands (who held the reins of politics) began to fear their decreasing control over reproduction (still no fetus).
Still, "the fetus" itself did not show up in the discourse until the viability of a particular offspring could be pushed back that far by medical advances. Before medicine could ensure the survival of almost every child from the earliest weeks of pregnancy, many people deliberately avoided "attachment" until much later. This is still the case in parts of the developing world where children are more likely to die in infancy and early childhood. Some cultures do not even name their children until they are at an age when survival is mostly assured.
My point is that this idea of "attachment to the fetus" is not universal. You might argue that if not universal it is Christian, but then you would have to explain why so many Christians throughout Western history, prior to the 20th century, made little political or moral ruckus over the issue, even though abortion was quite common. (Or were those just Christians who didn't understand their own beliefs?)
Furthermore, it's tough to find a biblical basis for opposing abortion, except for the one Psalm that talks about God knitting you together before you were born. But what's so surprising about that from a God who knows the future? The biblical God could have intentions for your life before you were conceived, too, and could meddle in events to ensure the sexual act that resulted in your conception. Would it then be equally wrong to not have sex when the circumstances prevent themselves? This kind of thing is where Christian theology drops off into an abyss of lunacy.
The point is not that mortality impinges on personhood but that there is no natural precedent for protecting a fetus simply because it is there. (That is, nature destroys them, too, so we cannot derive an ethic of protection from nature.)
Your point human society protects its vulnerable is a far better argument against abortion than anything allegedly derived from nature. However, we still choose what to protect and when to protect it. That choice is the result of rationalization that is unfortunately subjective. (E.g., one community may find it more beneficial to tend a disabled person while another one may find it more beneficial to abandon or kill a disabled person.)
In other words, as I said before, there is no definitive argument for or against abortion. Hence, we ought to take the existence of the practice as a given from the beginning and tend toward regulation rather than eradication.
The Roman-American parallel is interesting and popular. Though I said previously that I have not read much Roman history, I have been reading Gibbon's Decline and Fall recently, and there are passages were the similarities seem tantalizing.
However, when caught in the excitement of finding a historical society that seems to parallel our own, I think it becomes to easy for people to overstate the thesis. Mainly, the Roman Empire was built on very different economics and industries than the U.S. Also, Roman military conquest had a different character than American involvement in numerous overseas theaters (and different even from the spread of Europeans across North America).
Nor did the Roman empire have the same relationship with Christianity. The early Americans were nearly all Christians (while the founders of the late 18th century were largely an aberration–there was a similar period in the late 19th century where skepticism grew in popularity); the Romans officially resisted Christianity for three centuries, and by the time they accepted it, the Empire was headed downhill. In their heyday, Romans were entertained by watching people kill each other for sport; Americans can barely stand to see images of death in war. These are only broad strokes, but I am only trying to show that intriguing comparisons can easily go too far.
Jerry Nora
Theomorph, all men die. If mortality impinges on personhood, who is a person?
Why does a miscarriage rate impinge on a embryo or fetus' personhood? We all could die at any moment. It doesn't follow.
From your statistic, it would follow that embryos and fetuses are vulnerable, but the nice thing about society is that we protect our vulnerable members. Ergo, kids can go to school or play in a park rather than try to compete for limited food on a savannah or some Ice-Age Europe. Maybe there is little we can do to protect the embryo in utero, but not actively trying to kill it sounds like a good start!
Theomorph, to emphasize my awareness of nature aborting, I'll note that we've suffered two miscarriages interspersed among 5 live births. But as Jerry points out: the point is? Nature deals out cancer, AIDS, hurricanes, forest fires… doesn't mean we ought to go around doing the same. (Obviously, to the extent that we can avoid such natural calamities, we ought to. But this, by analogy, would refer to making natural miscarriage less likely, not more so.)
Okay… I'll bite….
[That abortion can be rational from any ideological standpoint] is just more proof that the causal relationship between our metaphysical beliefs and our political and social beliefs is imaginary at best.
Huh!?! What political or social belief could one possibly hold that is not rooted in metaphysics? Whether one is purely pragmatic or ideological or existential in one's political/social views, then one can only have done so having already made the metaphysical leap… whether they know it or not. If my avail myself of a Chesterton quotation:
"There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don't know it."
I think the joke is on the latter sort of dogma-acceptors…
Okay… I'll bite… again…
The point is not that mortality impinges on personhood but that there is no natural precedent for protecting a fetus simply because it is there.
Huh!?!? But this is exactly the "natural precedent" that a theist or non-theist would accept for, say, our support of a law proscribing murder, viz., propagation of the species. I suppose some far-removed biological impulse may have once prompted us to kill all children except our own, but apparently that impulse is so far suppressed that every society of every conceivable metaphysical ilk has come up with the novel idea that to kill is bad. The only difference between the various social views on the "badness" of killing is: who gets protected?
In one society, maybe it would be okay to kill other tribesfolk, but not people of your tribe (Rwanda). In another society, it may be okay to kill folks of a different color or language, but not folks of "our" color or language (3rd Reich, Sudan). In another perhaps it is considered wrong to kill anyone irrespective of tribe, color, or language (Civilized world).
It seems to me that this last society, i.e., the one that has expanded the rule about who gets protected, should be the one judged to be the most highly civilized–the most liberal. And this is exactly what I support, viz., the expansion of protection to include yet even more vulnerable.
That this can be argued strictly from natural law, irrespective or theological outlook, is granted and is, in fact, the subject of Funky's original post.
This is getting way too long for Haloscan. See my response here. 🙂
Jerry NoraView September 12, 2004
Well, Theomorph, there is spectrum to both religious and political beliefs, but if you take a look at people who go to church more than once a week, Kerry's support drops precipitously. There is also the well-known truism that Republicans do better on election days with bad weather (I recall praying for some solidly lousy Pittsburgh weather in November, 2000; won't be so zealous this year, but that's another story!).
Another example: your lack of attachment to the fetus is notably similar to the state of affars in pre-Christian Rome. Abortions and infanticide were both quite common. Moreover, if there was a plague, the victims would likely as not be left to die on the roadside.
Even after the Roe decision here in the USA, much is still different from back then! And you can thank a new set of metaphysical beliefs for that. Check out Rodney Stark's "The Rise of Christianity". The Greco-Roman volume from the series "A History of the Private Life" might also help, though I haven't had the time to get into that very promising series.
Granted, Christians or whatever may not live up to the fullness of their professed beliefs. In part, that is also quite likely due to not understanding what they believe. However, Christianity has revolutioned Western culture, and it is so much the part of even atheists' lives here that it is often taken for granted. (Three cheers for studying the classics! :))
Well, to take your first entry re. Rome-America, I think we're in some agreement–more than I would have thought from previous post.
My thesis was that in comparing the US and Rome, we could see some very interesting contrasts. Some are due to military-economic-technological differences, but I submit (and have submitted above) that our cultural views on abortion (among other things) have changed dramatically due to Christianity. Of course Rome and America are different–I said so from the start, and I asserted that some of those differences were due to a Christian metaphysic! Yes, there are many subvariants, but as a cultural patrimony, it has often helped shape opinions on abortion. While there are plenty of differences in opinion, I have found a level of discomfort with abortion even in many liberal, pro-choice activists. Rome, however, was not nearly so squeamish. I submit that much of that difference is due to the very fact that Rome began pagan, whereas the USA was founded by Christians.
So, to get back to the original point of a long and interesting exchange, metaphysics can have a powerful influence on how we view problems. It is hardly window dressing. Metaphysics can be influenced by both science and religion, and it has a powerful effect in that it can unite different those and other academic disciplines into a coherent worldview. Well, Theomorph may not find a union of religion and science to be coherent, but that could be another blog entry! Valid or not, though, metaphysics is how we at least attempt to unify them. Perhaps nobody has succeeded. Remember, though, we haven't unified all of physics yet into one Grand Unified Theory, but we still believe in physics. 😉
We see both in abortion, in that human embryology (which has gone far since ideas of the "quickening"), ethics, and moral theology all get thrown in, and this mix of ideas has had a huge influence on the general discourse on abortino. To steal a phrase from Richard Weaver, "ideas have consequences".
Here is what I see: even if someone does not think the fetus is a person, or claims that the fetus is a just a part of the woman's body (biologically laughable, but hey, it's politically correct…), they must address, directly or indirectly, issues of personhood and issues of embryonic rights, which the traditional Christian outlook champions. Therefore, even those who disagree with Catholicism on abortion may find themselves arguing according to criteria established by the Church. E.g.: time and again, I've seen Peter Singer cite Thomas Aquinas regarding the Christian view of abortion and sexuality.
Now I really have to do some other work today, so I shall address Mr. Theomorph's other posts at another time!
What does it matter whether my "lack of attachment to the fetus is notably similar to the state of affars in pre-Christian Rome"? Your point is vague, but I get the feeling you are trying to play what I see as a kind of reverse-appeal-to-authority in that you are trying to align my views with those of others in an attempt to better understand me as another instance of perspective you think you already understand. But since I have not read much (if any, that I recall) Roman literature, philosophy, or social history (it's on the waiting list…), it would be difficult to pin a Roman worldview on me. The influence of history certainly reaches into all of our lives and into the literature that we read, but since I deliberately read both sides of most issues, it would be inaccurate to say that my views are derived from one or the other. If my views independently fall into line with someone else's, a better question to ask is not whether you are seeing a causal relationship, but whether the range of views is limited and people will independently work themselves into a limited number of philosophical positions.
Furthermore, your general view of people and how they attain their beliefs seems to be a little dim, which bothers me. You imply that I am ignorant of Christian contributions to history and that Christians are diverse because they do not understand their own religion well enough. This sounds suspiciously like "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is clearly ignorant." But I'll stick with "sounds suspiciously like" instead of making an out-and-out accusation, because I'm just talking about shades and implications in your comments there.
Anyway, my own opinion is that any time a discussion falls back on regurgitation or bibliography, the participants are not prepared enough. (Don't worry, I've done the same thing too many times myself, so I'm not trying to pound you or anything. 😉
As for my "lack of attachment to the fetus," I find it odd that anyone could be attached to "the fetus," as "the fetus" is a noun representing an abstract class of things and not a tangible thing itself. Hence, "attachment to the fetus" would itself be borderline metaphysical (if not fully). In that sense, it is "the fetus" that is the belief or dogma, not the "attachment." Most people are instead, I think, attached to particular fetuses–but even then, they are more attached to the imagined potential of those fetuses than they are to the flesh itself.
Interestingly, abortion as a problem rose to prominence in the United States only relatively recently (about a hundred years ago). Before that, abortions were quite common and culturally accepted under some intriguingly oblique terminology like removing a "blockage" to menstruation–notice that "the fetus" is not present. By the mid- to late-19th century in the United States, something like 50% of pregnancies ended in abortion and there was little ruckus. The m
Yes, it refers to the PC. I guess you never owned a Commodore Vic20 or 64. 😉
You can find theists all across the political spectrum. You can find atheists all across the political spectrum. Hence, political ideology is not derived from metaphysical ideology. Just look at what exists in the world and this popular notion that beliefs drive politics doesn't play out. Instead I think people derive their political views from their personal circumstances and experiences, not from their metaphysics. Otherwise, people with the same theology should vote the same, but they don't. Darn. So much for simple answers.
. . . .
I don't accept any "natural precedent" for proscribing murder, except that I personally do not want to be killed, nor do I want the society in which I live and from which I benefit to be destabilized by people going around killing each other. I don't think there is any kind of principle of "right" or "wrong" regarding murder that is clearly evident in "nature." I.e., there is nothing intrinsically bad about the act of murder, but there are social ramifications; murder can only be "right" or "wrong" in a human social context.
Furthermore, to say that every society with a metaphysical ilk has decided that murder is bad doesn't say much. You are dealing in correlations and not causalities. One could just as easily say that humans living together are equally likely to develop metaphysics as they are to develop prohibitions of murder.
You can rationalize the pro-life position from anywhere along the spectrum of religious ideology. That is just more proof that the causal relationship between our metaphysical beliefs and our political and social beliefs is imaginary at best.
But if life begins at conception there is still the problem of nature aborting a whole lot of conceptions via miscarriage, often very early in the process. (A widely accepted rate of miscarriage is 15-20% of clinically detected pregnancies. See here for more statistics.) Life may begin, but when does humanity begin? Nature itself (or God himself, if you are a theist) does not seem to regard mere conception too highly.
Personally, I think abortions, particularly late-term ones, are pretty darned gruesome. But they have historical precedent as far back as it goes and they're here to stay. Furthermore, there is no definitive argument on their morality either way. (Don't forget that if some atheists are pro-life, there are plenty of theists who are also pro-choice.) We might as well regulate them, instead of making abortion a criminal act.
[…] I thought this relevant due to a lengthy thread about just this topic in the comments to another post of mine. […]
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AQAR for the year 2009-2010
Minutes of IQAC
Academic Year 2015-2016
Academic Year 2016-2017
Best Practices
Feedback and Analysis Report

subset: commoncrawl


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Herbal Leys for Dairy
This field lab is looking to investigate consistent quality of forage through using diverse ley species, which have already proved to have multiple benefits for grazing livestock.Show More
This field lab is looking to investigate consistent quality of forage through using diverse ley species, which have already proved to have multiple benefits for grazing livestock.Show More
To see the latest activity please log-in (group members only).
September 2019
Farmer B, supported by the field lab coordinator took transects and collected forage samples from the trial plots in mid September. They noted that generally the trial ley is continuing to perform very well, with lots of forage present and a good diversity of species after a period with low rain fall. The farmer reported that cows have been performing just as well on the herbal leys. It has been interesting to compare the plot where a longer residual is being left – there is clearly greater grass growth since the cows were removed. Further monitoring and sampling will be done whilst the fields are still being grazed.
A new herbal ley that was sown in April established really well and now has amazing amounts of lush forage available, and cows have been lightly grazing it for a week or two. A grass/clover ley that was sown at the same time is significantly behind.
Some of the farmers involved have found it challenging to do the appropriate monitoring and data gathering through this season, and the group have agreed that they will continue the field lab into next year, with additional support to gather the relevant data throughout next years growing season. The data from whole field lab will then be collated and analysed by researchers at Reading University.
Milestone: Data collection
April 2019
The field lab coordinator has visited farmers in this group to review methodology and support the farmers in taking the first samples of the season. This involves taking several recordings from 2 or 3 randomly thrown quadrats just prior to the first grazing of the site. The following measurements were taken:
- Plants within the quadrat were identified, using guides provided by Cotswold Seeds and Reading University, and species composition noted based on % cover of grasses, legumes and herbs, along with any key indicator present
- Photographs taken of the quadrats
- One quadrat selected for further nutritional analysis; cutting the forage ~7cm, recording the fresh weight, and freezing the sample to later be sent for analysis of dry matter, protein, fibre and ME value and samples taken and sent to Reading University for analysis to assess the dry weight content.
The farmers in the group will follow this process on the trial sites prior to grazing throughout the season.
Milestone: Review of monitoring methods meeting
October 2018
As the group are sowing at different times, a form is being circulated to capture the state of all the leys and will be reviewed in spring.
The group also looked over the Reading University trial plots – the herbs had done well (chicory mainly and some clovers - in individual spp plots the alsike clover was looking best, white clover didn't look great, sainfoin looked good as it often does well on chalk), but the grasses had not coped well in the drought. This is an interesting and positive initial result for the herbaceous leys.
The farmers plan to meet again with the researcher and coordinator in Spring to refresh them on the methods of quadrat counts. This will happen either as a group at one farm, or individually.
Milestone: Progress review
October 2018
The group met at Reading University to talk about what each farmer had done for sowing (please log in and see the attached methods document for details under 'Field Lab Documents').
One of the farmers couldn't attend the meeting but sent on an update to say that they have sown 12 acres of herbal leys on ground which they have never sown them on before. Farmer D sowed in spring but the field flooded 3 days, later was waterlogged for 3 days and then the drought hit over summer. Chicory and plantain is patchy but has grown, the grass has not done as well. It was grazed twice this year, but the farmer thinks that perhaps it shouldn't have, and is going to scatter more seed this autumn to try and fill in patches after poor establishment.
Farmer A has sown this autumn. Farmer B under-sowed a pea barley mix in May and then harvested 10 weeks later for whole-crop. The herbs and legumes came up but no grass, except on the headland. The latter was rolled more so he thinks he needs to roll more in centre of field. He's now over-seeding with grass to try and fill out the gaps, in consultation with Cotswold Seeds. The grass sown includes fescue, cocksfoot, rye amongst others. He did get it established but unfortunately it died in the summer drought due to having a shallower root system. The mix has lots of chicory and is looking fantastic now, he has put on sheep and is thinking of putting dairy cows on too – this was advised against by the seed company, however with two years of poor weather and yields, there is a need to use it as forage.
Farmer F has sown 10 acres earlier in the year, Farmer E has also sown, and both will report on his observations soon. Farmer G has moved to a new farm with herbal leys existing and so will do the trial on that.
Milestone: Progress review
July 2018
Due to the dry weather this spring and summer, the meeting has been postponed.
Most of the triallists have not been able to sow their leys yet, however those that are using existing leys or have managed to sow and get some growth are hoping to take measurements. The group coordinator is sending out measuring equipment for the farmers to do this.
Milestone: Data collection
June 2018
The group coordinator and researcher have written a blog and made a video for the group and others interested in measuring forage diversity and growth. The method aims to be simple and useable for farmers.
Please see the webpage here: https://innovativefarmers.org/news/2018/june/15/how-to-measure-forage-diversity-growth/?utm_source=Organic+Farming+News+-+Post+GDPR&utm_campaign=297ba94287-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_24_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d21495ad10-297ba94287-
Milestone: Field trial starts
April 2018
For those not using existing herbal leys, new seed has now been purchased for sowing later in the season.
Milestone: Seed bought
February 2018
Dates will be recorded when the cows enter and exit a trial location and from both parts of the grazing area the following records will be taken before the cows enter the site and then once exiting the site.
From three randomly thrown quadrats farmers will record species composition, based on % cover grasses, legumes and herbs. Additionally farmers will identify where possible presence of key indicator species such as Chicory, Ribgrass forage herb, Burnett, Yarrow, Trefoil and Clovers where possible. Photographs of the quadrat will be taken in order to help verify species composition where there are uncertainties.
The researcher will visit some of the farms at key points where possible to assess sward diversity. Due to the fast nature of the decisions that will be made by the farmers when moving the herd, it won't be possible for the researcher to carry out quadrat recordings before and after leaving the trial sites. The researcher may also undertake soil health/structure monitoring on visiting the farms.
The forage in the quadrat will be cut and weighed and then some of the samples will be sent for nutrient analysis (potentially including protein and fibre content and ME value) as well as dry matter content. Raw height measurements using a plate meter will also be taken by the farmers.
Milestone: Solidifying field lab aims and methods
February 2018
The agreed methods aim to look at grazing frequency on:
1. Established mixes, considering the impact primarily on species composition, dry matter availability and feed quality.
2. The impact of grazing frequency on newly established herbal leys – where a bespoke mix is selected for that specific farm.
On each farm farmers will select 3 locations, were possible one site will be in a newly sown sward, one is a sward 1-2 years old and then a third in an older sward (3/4+ years).
On some farms there will be perhaps only one site to monitor in the first year as the herbal ley sown this spring will be the first diverse sward on the farm. Other farms will not have new leys sown this spring so will only be monitoring older swards in this first year.
When the grazing cycle moves around the farm and hits one of the identified locations. The paddock or grazing strip (if strip grazed) will be divided in two. The cows will be left to graze one part of the area to leave the sward at what the farmer would personally consider an "optimal" residual (A). The other half of the sward the cows will be removed early (this is yet to be defined – by measuring via days or height on the plate meter), so that the residual remaining is greater that the considered "optimal" height (B). Optimal height and greater residual height will be measured using a plate meter.
New herbal leys sown in spring
Bespoke mixes will be selected for the individual farms that are able to sow new herbal leys this spring. Ian Wilkinson will advise on appropriate mixes for each farm.
Milestone: Solidifying field lab aims and methods
February 2018
Grazing frequency and management through the season will be investigated in order to:
1. Optimise sward regrowth after grazing and
2. Optimise longevity of species diversity in order to maintain a harmonious balance of species throughout the season (over 4+ years)
Both of these elements should then optimise the nutritional value of the sward throughout the season and analysis of this will be competed.
Additionally the trial will provide an opportunity for the farmers involved to gain additional skills in species identification in their fields. They will also be able to compare the effects of management and varying seed mixes on different farms with varying soil types and climate.
Milestone: Solidifying field lab aims and methods
February 2018
Please see the attached pdf under 'Field Lab Documents' for a Herbal Leys Guide produced by Cotswold Seeds, which includes case studies of herbal leys used for different farming systems.
Milestone: Field trial starts
February 2018
The group including 8 of the farmers, coordinator Kate Still, herbal leys specialist Ian Wilkinson and researcher Anna Tompson met to outline their priorities for the field lab aims and leading on from this their methods.
Many of the farmers are already growing herbal leys whilst others aren't, bringing a good range of experience to the group. Some have a few year old swards, whilst others have been growing them for several years. Most of the group will be planting new leys this spring of a bespoke mix for their farm, and/or focus grazing management on existing swards of varying ages.
As those that already grow herbal leys feel confident that they do improve soil health and have benefits to their livestock, the aim focused on determining the following:
a) What is the nutrient value of the herbal ley swards (at varying ages)
b) How can the herbal leys be best managed for optimal species diversity, longevity and forage production
Initial methods looked at giving different lengths of grazing time (one strip longer than another) to evaluate the effects on the sward. Additionally the effect on regrowth of the sward depending on the height of residual left. Farmers will likely take sward cuttings from quadrats to be sent off for nutrient and dry matter analysis, as well as recording the species present and weighing fresh weight of the forage. These measures will be taken before the cows go in and once removed.
Some farmers undertake mob grazing whilst others paddock graze, so these differing systems will need to take different approaches to the trial. Weather also influences the growth of the leys, and the farmers will therefore judge when the optimal height of the sward (instead of a fixed number of days grazing) and then have an option which leave a greater residual.
This methodology is still under progress and the next steps will be to solidify how each farmer undertakes the field lab.
Milestone: Solidifying field lab aims and methods
January 2018
The group will be meeting again on the 1st February in the Cotswolds to discuss and crystallise their trial methods for the year ahead. Please contact us for further information if you would like to be involved.
Milestone: Solidifying field lab aims and methods
November 2017
The group shared details of existing practices /experience with herbal leys. Most of the group have been growing some, ranging from a few fields to 2/3 of farm. Generally they are very impressed with their ability to produce lots of forage, dry out wet fields, improve soil structure, positive signs regarding heard health & fertility. The group want to understand them better and want to demonstrate this consistency and reliability to others while maintaining production.
The researcher introduced a new trial at Reading University which focuses on beef cattle, looking at 3 herbal leys of varying diversity compared to a rye grass control and monitoring cattle growth rates and nutrient utilisation.
Ian Wilkinson from Cotswold Seeds gave some background on herbal leys for dairy farms. He highlighted how dairy farmers need confidence in consistent quality forage but how herbal leys could lower cost of production (no fertiliser input required), extend the grazing season, are drought resistant, have medicinal benefits, better extraction of soil minerals as deep rooting, and can be included as part of Environmental Stewardship. However they need to be managed well to maintain diversity, rotational grazing and mob grazing most effective with back fencing to allow regrowth to establish.
On a farm walk the group looked at a variety of herbal leys at varying ages and considered the diversity of species, ground cover, grass regrowth, soil health/structure. Additionally there were discussions on how to measure total dry matter with herbal leys, the flaws of plate metering, benefits of fixed rotation, length of grazing round, what seed mixes to use and the amount of grass in the mix.
There is interest in nutrient/medicinal benefits but most felt this isn't suitable for field trials. The initial impressions are that the success of the field lab will be predominantly measured in production. The group will be meeting again in the new year to solidify field lab aims.
Milestone: Initial idea discussions
© Soil Association 2022. Charity registered in England and Wales no 206862, in Scotland no SC039168. Terms


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There's a lot more to a laundry room than you might think at first glance. While this space is mostly functional and ideally not one that you will spend a lot of time in, it should still be organized and somewhat appealing in order to make the task of washing and drying loads of clothes easier.
Then why we need to be creative when doing a laundry room makeover? Your laundry room space might be limited, you might have a tight budget or you might only have repurposed materials to work with. It is truly possible to work under these conditions and get a great final result though, we can assure you. In fact, that is what this post is all about.
Let's look at some creative laundry room makeovers that might serve as inspiration to start your own.
DIY Laundry Room Makeover
This makeover is quite interesting, as the machines are on a middle shelf, instead of directly on the floor. The shelves above and below it hold baskets for storage and organization. classyclutter.


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Boston, MA · Job # 8591BK
Job Overview:
This is a hands-on software development role within a cross-platform engineering team responsible for core technology infrastructure.
The Infrastructure Engineering Team designs and maintains the company's operating systems, authentication systems, databases, virtualization infrastructure, core network services, and messaging and endpoints on Linux and Windows in both internal- and external-facing environments.
The Infrastructure Software Systems Engineer will build tools to manage that infrastructure and provide services to software developers and other end users in the company.
A degree in Computer Science (or another technical discipline) or comparable work experience.
Previous experience working with a variety of programming languages and development environments and platforms is desired, as is an interest in developing software for both Linux and Windows environments across a variety of languages, including Python, C#, PowerShell, Java, and Go.
A working knowledge of operating systems, network protocols, information security concepts, declarative configuration management, and CI/CD systems.
Applicants must be authorized to work in the United States legally.Apply For this Position
Track your jobs and take advantage of one click applying by creating an account.Register Now
Want us to do the work for you? Submit your resume and we'll find a job that's a perfect match for you!Submit Resume


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Pre-Registration for Transitional Kindergarten and Kindergarten for the 2022-23 school year opens on January 10, 2022. THIS IS DONE ONLINE.
To be eligible to register for Transitional Kindergarten a child must turn five between September 2, 2022 and September 1, 2023.
To be eligible to register for Kindergarten a child must turn five on or before September 1, 2022.
To begin the Pre-Registration process follow the online link to parent portal no sooner than January 10, 2022:
DOCUMENTATION OF AGE - Evidence of the child's age may include:
• A certified copy of a Birth Certificate or a statement by the local registrar or county recorder certifying the date of birth.
• A duly attested baptism certificate
• A passport
• When none of the foregoing is obtainable, the parent/guardian may provide an affidavit (Education Code 48002)
IMMUNIZATION RECORDS: All immunizations must be current/completed prior to your child beginning school. If the immunizations records are not in English, please provide a translation.
MEDICAL & DENTAL EXAMINATION (for incoming TK/Kinder):
•Health Exam Form filled out by physician
•Oral Health Assessment Form
PROOF OF RESIDENCY: You must provide reasonable evidence of residency for your pupil living within the boundaries of the District through documentation showing the name and address of the parent or legal guardian within the school district, including, but not limited to, any of the following documentation:
*Deed of trust (for new purchase)
•Property tax payment receipts
•Rental property contract, lease, or payment receipts
•Declaration of residency executed by the parent or legal guardian of a pupil
AND TWO of the following:
•Utility service contact, statement, or payment receipt
•Pay stubs reflecting address of parent or guardian within the District
•Voter registration document for parent or guardian
•Correspondence from a government agency addressed to the parent or guardian within the District
•Current utility bill (PG&E, waste management, water)
•Cell phone bill
You will be asked to fill out:
•A Registration Form
•A Records Request form, which allows us to request your child's school records from their previous school.
•A Language Survey, which is required by the California Education Code.
Upon completion of the on-line registration, you MUST bring a hard copy of these forms to the school office to FINALIZE registration. Your child will not be registered until we receive your COMPLETE registration package including proof of all required immunizations.
In addition to TK and Kindergarten registration both Ormondale School and Corte Madera School are accepting registrations for new students entering grades 1-8. Please complete the registration process in the same manner as listed above for TK and Kindergarten. Students entering grades 1-3 should register at Ormondale and grades 4-8 at Corte Madera.
January 19th at 2:00 pm - VIRTUAL (Link emailed after you register)
January 26th at 1:30 pm- VIRTUAL (Link emailed after you register)
For questions, email:
[email protected]
PVSD is committed to providing accessibility for all. If you experience difficulty with the accessibility of any web pages or documents, please contact us to request this information in an alternate format at (insert email address of executive assistant). Please note, that some of our web pages contain links to external websites. The (PVSD or LLESD) is not responsible for the content contained on external websites.
4575 Alpine Road, Portola Valley, CA 94028
Phone 650-851-1777Fax 650-851-3700


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2020 SEMA Show Is Canceled
The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) has canceled the 2020 SEMA Show due to COVID-19.
"While both event organizers and industry members have been working tirelessly to deliver an outstanding SEMA Show in November, mounting uncertainty has rendered continuing with the event inadvisable," the organization said in an announcement Aug. 5. "SEMA expects the decision will bring much needed clarity to an uncertain picture and will help exhibitors, attendees and partners plan accordingly."
Additionally, organizers of the Automotive Aftermarket Products Expo (AAPEX) have informed their members that AAPEX 2020 is canceled as well. The organizers are pursuing a "virtual/digital experience" for this fall.
SEMA said, "Recent SEMA Show survey results indicated interest in a possible virtual trade show with related live elements. SEMA will be working with industry members to determine interest levels on specific alternatives.
"The SEMA Show is committed to furthering businesses in the automotive specialty equipment market, and to providing manufacturers and buyers with the best opportunity to connect, promote new products and discover new trends," said Chris Kersting, SEMA CEO and president. "We appreciate the spirit, hard work and innovation our industry puts into the SEMA Show each year. While we are disappointed circumstances prevent us from hosting the Show in November, we look forward to getting everyone together in 2021 for another outstanding event."
The SEMA Show regularly attracts 161,000 people to its combined 2.2 million square feet of indoor and outdoor space at the Las Vegas Convention Center. Organizers had been working on lots of safety protocols, from limited traffic patterns and temperature checks to mask requirements, all in an effort to go forward with the show.
Full refunds for SEMA Show exhibitor booth deposits and attendee registration fees will be issued. Updates will be posted to www.SEMAShow.com.


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Laminate flooring is a manufactured multi-layered synthetic floor fused in a lamination process, which simulates wood, stone, or tile with a photographic layer under a clear protective layer. There are many benefits to installing laminate flooring because of its durability (up to 30 years), cheaper price, and ability to withstand debris and water exposure.
The average cost to install a laminate floor ranges from $1,500 and $3,500. The average homeowner spends around $2,207 on a 12 mm thick laminate floor for a 200 sq.ft. room with a sound-reduction underlayment. This project's low cost is $1,217 for 200 sq.ft. of 7 mm thick laminate floor installed with no underlayment. The high cost is $4,616 for 300 sq.ft. of 12 mm thick laminate with a 3-in-1 underlayment, fully installed.
|Laminate Flooring Cost
|National average cost
|Average range
The average cost of laminate flooring can vary greatly, depending on a range of factors. For example, laminate floors fitted with underlayment and ones that do not need waxing tend to be more expensive, so these factors should be taken into account when using any laminate floor price calculator. Your location can also impact your laminate floor project's final cost because labor and material prices vary from state to state. Enter your zip code into the laminate floor quote calculator will show you an estimated average price for a typical 200-square-foot installation of laminate flooring with sound-resistant underlayment, along with high and low costs.
The average cost to install laminate flooring is between $6 and $14 per sq.ft., including labor and material costs. If you buy the flooring and install it yourself, expect to pay $1.50 to $6 per sq.ft.. Other aspects can increase the cost, such as if the subfloor 1 needs prepping or the project involves removing old flooring.
Additionally, the room size has a big impact on the project price. Larger rooms require more flooring, resulting in higher material costs. Installing it in a tiny entrance area of about 100 sq.ft. is much cheaper than installing it in a 300+ sq.ft. living area.
|Room Size
|Average Costs (Installed)
|100 sq.ft.
|$600 - $1,400
|200 sq.ft.
|$1,200 - $2,800
|300 sq.ft.
|$1,800 - $4,200
|500 sq.ft.
|$3,000 - $7,000
|600 sq.ft.
|$3,600 - $8,400
|1,000 sq.ft.
|$6,000 - $14,000
|1,500 sq.ft.
|$9,000 - $21,000
|2,000 sq.ft.
|$12,000 - $28,000
While some people picture a material similar to wood when they think about laminate flooring, this material comes in various styles. It can easily imitate tile or stone and many colors and shades of wood. This is because the top layer can be printed in any pattern before laminating, so this flooring can easily come in hundreds of colors, patterns, and styles. Costs vary by the overall type and the material color, style, and size.
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Only Material)
|$1.50 - $3
|$3.50 - $4
|$3.50 - $5
Wood laminate flooring costs between $1.50 and $3 a square foot. Wood-look is the most common type. It is much more available than the other types. You can find wood-look flooring in a range of colors, sizes, and floor thicknesses. Most are click-lock, meaning they can be installed as a "floating" floor. Some older types may be nail or glue-down, but they are not nearly as common.
Stone-look laminate flooring ranges from $3.50 to $4 a square foot. It is much less common than the wood-look variety. It is available in a range of different colors but with few styles. Most give you the appearance of a tumbled or antiqued stone floor. The material is sold in click-lock tiles rather than planks. The tiles are usually larger and may have several "sizes" of "stone" on one tile. When clicked together, it imitates a stone tile floor in a repeating pattern.
Tile laminate flooring averages $3.50 to $5 a square foot. It is more widely available than stone-look but not as available as wood-look. The tile can appear like stone, concrete, or "terrazzo." The tiles are designed to click-lock together like the wood-look planks. So while these are tiles, they are not grouted or sealed on the edges. This means they are not suitable for wet areas because water could get between the joints 2 and cause the flooring to swell. When this happens, the tiles could warp.
Buyers have plenty of options when choosing and purchasing wood laminate flooring. There are many types and styles of wood, including acacia, beech, hickory, oak, and walnut. Each has a different color and pattern, offering a wide range of aesthetics. The better-looking and more desirable woods, like elm and hickory, are more expensive:
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Materials Only)
|$0.99 - $2.20
|$0.99 - $2.89
|$0.99 - $3.69
|$1.40 - $3.70
|$1.50 - $3.80
|$1.50 - $4.50
|$1.70 - $2.80
|$1.99 - $2.80
Acacia laminate flooring costs between $0.99 and $2.20 a square foot. It is a rich, deep brown color. It has a warm reddish undertone that enables it to complement many spaces. The boards usually also feature a darker brown vein. Depending on the manufacturer, you may also get some lighter sections that appear golden or as though they were glowing. It is available in many finishes, from polished to handscraped.
Beech laminate costs between $0.99 and $2.89 a square foot. It is a very light reddish-brown color. Any apparent grain is straight and even, with just a slightly darker reddish-brown tone. This is a nice light-colored floor that works well in darker rooms. Beech is a much less common color than others. Therefore, you may not find as many options for finish, tone, and variation.
Oak laminate flooring ranges from $0.99 to $3.69 a square foot. Just like wood oak flooring, it comes in a few styles and colors. Oak can be split into groups like red oak, white oak, and black oak, with red and white being the two most common. Red oak options have a pink/red undertone and generally looks warmer. White oak options have a blue/gray undertone and appears cooler. All types have some prominent grain and color variation.
Elm laminate flooring averages $1.40 to $3.70 a square foot. Elm was once a very popular flooring material but is no longer available in new cut wood because of Dutch elm disease. Therefore, the only way to get this color is through reclaimed wood or laminates. It flooring has the same light color with a darker grain that true elm has. It is available in a range of widths and styles. This includes several finishes, from polished to handscraped.
Maple laminate flooring costs between $1.50 and $3.80 a square foot. It has a clear light color with little veining. The veining it does have can vary from straight to "curly," depending on the manufacturer. This is a nice even color for flooring, so it works well in many homes. When looking for a floor without many veins that competes with your surrounding furnishings, this is a good option. It also works well in modern homes.
Hickory laminate ranges from $1.50 to $4.50 a square foot. It has a much more pronounced grain than other colors and styles. Hickory can have very thick veins and ranges in color, from medium to very dark. The background color is a creamy light tan, so the veins tend to stand out prominently. You can also find a "stained" hickory that blends the veins. This a very attractive floor that stands out in any setting.
Cherry laminate flooring costs between $1.70 and $2.80 a square foot. Cherry is a unique color that can have a lot of range. True cherry is a medium reddish-brown that grows darker and redder. It may be either of these shades. It can also be a "stained" cherry, which brings out the grain's deepest tones. In this case, the cherry can be a rich burgundy color with even darker veining.
Walnut laminate averages $1.99 to $2.80 a square foot. It has a rich brown color. Walnut's color ranges from a mid-warm tone to a much darker and cooler shade. Sometimes, depending on the manufacturer, it can make this shift on one floor. This can be a very attractive flooring for those who want a dark floor with warmth and character. The variation and color also mean this is a good color if you want to hide dirt.
Laminate comes in various textures to give off a look of real hardwood, stone, or concrete flooring. And like these other materials, it can be finished in various ways. The finished floor may be perfectly smooth or have a mild to moderate texture, depending on the type. Like all floors, the deeper the texture, the harder the floor may be to keep clean:
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Materials Only)
|$1.69 - $2.59
|$1.79 - $2.99
|Embossed in register (EIR)
|$1.89 - $3.99
|$1.99 - $3.99
|$2.59 - $5.59
|$2.99 - $5.99
Smooth laminate flooring costs between $1.69 and $2.59. Many types come with a smooth or satin finish. This finish is soft and smooth without any deep grain textures. The surface is usually very shiny and easy-to-clean. This makes it a good choice for areas that do not see much foot traffic, such as bedrooms. Avoid using this flooring in areas where dog nails or furniture could cause scratches.
The cost of embossed laminate flooring ranges from $1.79 to $2.99 a square foot. It has more depth and texture than the smooth style. This means it is harder to clean but also not as slippery. It is easier to hide wear and scratches on this style. It can also have a slightly more natural appearance. The surface is still fairly smooth, however. There are little-to-no rough edges.
EIR laminate flooring costs between $1.89 and $3.99 a square foot. This embossing produces a more subtle texture. The finished look helps create the natural look of hardwood. When done on a color with grain or color variation, the process adds depth and texture to the floor's alignment. This surface still feels fairly smooth. There are no rough edges, and while it is slightly harder to clean, it is also better at hiding wear.
Brushed laminate flooring averages $1.99 to $3.99 a square foot. It flooring has a soft textured finish that has the appearance of having been brushed by metal wire. The texture is rougher and more pronounced than the embossed textures. This can give the floor a more rustic appearance and helps hide wear and scratches much better than embossing. The method helps bring more character to the flooring, particularly when used on a type with lots of grain. This texture can be harder to clean.
Oiled laminate ranges from $2.59 to $5.59 a square foot. It flooring is designed to look like well-oiled hardwood. The finish has a rich gloss and depth that cannot be found in the traditional smooth style. The surface is not completely flat, even though it is very glossy. The slight texture beneath the gloss provides more depth and interest. This is a good finish for a wide range of homes, from traditional to contemporary.
Handscraped laminate flooring costs between $2.99 and $5.99 a square foot. This is a rough and rustic texture designed to mimic the look of a handscraped hardwood floor. The texture is deeper and very visibly pronounced. While the texture on other types may be more felt than seen, this texture is obvious. It can have a matte or polished finish to further change the appearance. It looks good on all colors but works best for cottage, farmhouse, and other rustic-style homes.
Laminate flooring is offered in different thickness levels. Typically, it is available from 7 mm to 12 mm in thickness. All options are dent-resistant, but the thicker the material, the less resistant it is to bending caused by an uneven subfloor. The thicker the material also means less noise resistance:
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Materials Only)
|6 mm
|$0.69 - $0.99
|7 mm
|$0.89 - $0.99
|8 mm
|$0.99 - $1.79
|10 mm
|$1.99 - $3.99
|12 mm
|$2.29 - $5.99
6 mm laminate flooring costs between $0.69 and $0.99. This is the thinnest option and is available in a few colors and styles. It usually has a smooth texture. It is not as long-lasting as others. It is also harder to install. You may need a thicker underlayment 3 or a perfectly flat subfloor.
7 mm laminate floors average $0.89 to $0.99 a square foot. This is a slightly thicker flooring. It is also not as widely available in different colors and styles as other thicknesses. Smooth is the most common texture. While it is slightly easier to install than 6 mm, it can still be difficult. It needs a smooth, flat underlayment or subfloor. The biggest issue at this thickness can be a louder floor when walking on it.
8 mm laminate flooring ranges from $0.99 to $1.79 a square foot. This is the most popular thickness. It is thin enough to be inexpensive but thick enough to be easier to install. It still requires an underlayment but not as thick. It is available in most styles, colors, and finishes. It can still be loud underfoot if you do not use the correct underlayment.
10 mm laminate flooring costs between $1.99 and $3.99 a square foot. This is the second most popular thickness. It is easy to install and comes in the widest range of colors, styles, and finishes. It is a little quieter underfoot and does not require a thick underlayment. This type of floor require some underlayment, but this thickness can reduce that underlayment's thickness. With the right underlayment, this floor can be very comfortable underfoot.
12 mm laminate flooring averages $2.29 to $5.99 a square foot. 12 mm options are not as common as other thicknesses. At this thickness, it is more difficult to install. It requires an underlayment but does not require a very thick model. It is available in all finishes and styles. It is also fairly quiet and comfortable underfoot.
Laminate is also offered in different finishes. A finish is different from a texture, but the two go hand-in-hand. Some textures like oil-finished are naturally glossy, while others like handscraped are more likely matte. Sometimes, you can choose between different finishes and textures to find a unique style for your home:
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Materials Only)
|$0.99 - $3.79
|$0.99 - $4.40
|$1.69 - $5.60
A semi-matte finish, also known as a medium gloss finish, is halfway between matte and high gloss. It provides a decent amount of shine and sheen while also being more subtle than the full gloss variants. It is a good option for those on a budget, costing between $0.99 and $3.79 per sq.ft.
This finish has a flat or matte appearance. Matte laminate floors give you an authentic natural wood look without the shimmer and sheen of glossier styles. One of the advantages of matte options is that it hides scratches more effectively. It is available in a wide range of colors and styles and costs between $0.99 and $4.40 per sq.ft.
Glossy laminates have a very polished, high-gloss surface. They reflect light easily and can brighten darker rooms. They can also make rooms appear larger, particularly when using a cooler-toned floor. Darker glossy floors add character and beauty to a room and work well in traditional settings. They cost between $1.69 and $5.60 per sq.ft.
Underlayments are essential for laminate floor installations. This is a separate material rolled out over your subfloor for the installation. The thinner the material, the thicker your underlayment must be.
Underlayments act as a layer of support between the floor and subfloor, allowing the laminate to float while providing stability, support, and noise reduction.
A separate moisture barrier ($35 per roll) is required for below-grade installations or moisture-prone areas. Underlayment starts at $30 to $50 a roll. The thicker the underlayment, the more expensive and harder it is to roll out and install.
The average cost to install laminate flooring is $4 to $8 a square foot. This price includes the cost of installing the underlayment and laminate. It is not difficult to install and can usually be done in a few hours. The underlayment is rolled out and taped down first, and then the laminate is locked over it. Thinner options cost more to install than thicker - closer to $8 a sq.ft. Thicker options are faster and easier to install and may be less expensive. While most laminate floors are floating floors, meaning they click-lock into one another, they can be installed in other ways. If your subfloor is not perfectly level or unsuited for a floating installation, your laminate can be glued or nailed down. This increases your labor costs, making them closer to $8 a square foot while floating installations cost closer to $4.
|Installation Style
|Average Labor Costs per Sq.Ft.
|$4 - $7
|$5 - $8
|$6 - $8
Your labor costs are between $800 and $1,600 out of the $1,200 to $2,800 total range to install 200 sq.ft., with the remaining costs being taken up by the materials.
Like any material, many factors impact the final costs. The first is the laminate type and thickness. Thinner ones are generally less expensive to purchase but require a thicker and more expensive underlayment. They are also more difficult and time-consuming to install, resulting in higher installation costs.
The style you choose can impact the material's cost. "Designer" laminates and the ones made to look like stone or handscraped wood have higher costs than plainer options. Thicker options cost more to purchase, but mid-weight ones cost the least to install.
If the room where you are installing the laminate has many angles or needs many cuts to fit the edges, you have higher labor costs. Installing if on stairs can also have higher costs.
Finally, your location can impact the cost. Installation costs tend to be higher in big cities and coasts than in rural or inland areas.
Unless you plan to install the material yourself, you have many choices for choosing your material and who installs it. You can purchase the material and choose your installer. You can go to an installation specialist, such as Empire, who sells to you and installs the material. You can also go to big-box stores, such as Lowe's or Home Depot, which sell you material and contract with a third party to install it. Not all these choices give you the same results. Brands can be limited in some cases, while if you go with a third-party installer, you are not necessarily choosing the installer.
Each scenario can also lead to a range of final costs. There can be overlap, depending on the material.
|Average Costs per Square Foot (Installed)
|Home Depot
|$4 - $11
|$4 - $11
|$5 - $10
|Empire Today
|$5 - $12
|$5 - $12
|$6 - $12
|$6 - $12
The cost of purchasing and installing laminate from Home Depot ranges from $4 to $11 a square foot. Home Depot carries a wide range of laminate floors. They range from 6 mm to 12 mm in thickness. They also carry a full range of underlayments. If you purchase flooring through Home Depot, you can opt for installation through them. They set it up and give you a separate installation quote.
The cost of Quick-Step laminate flooring installed is between $4 and $11 a square foot. Quick-Step manufactures several types, sizes, and styles. They specialize in wood-look laminate. You can purchase their products from a range of places and can contract through one of these places to install it. The total costs are dependent on the installer and the flooring type. They have a wide range of flooring options, with an equally large range of costs.
The cost of purchasing and having laminate installed from Lowe's ranges from $5 to $10 a square foot. Lowe's carries a wide range of laminate floors. They vary in brand, style, type, appearance, and thickness. They also carry a wide range of underlayments, which vary in thickness and cost. If you purchase it from Lowe's, you can choose to have them install it. In this case, they give you a separate quote for installation.
The cost of purchasing and installing laminate from Empire Today ranges from $5 to $12 a square foot. Empire Today carries a wide range of flooring types, including laminate. They offer many sizes, styles, types, and thicknesses. They also install the brands and materials they sell. In this case, you choose a floor and measure it. You are quoted one price for the material and installation.
The cost of installing Armstrong laminate costs $5 to $12 a square foot. Armstrong is a manufacturer of many laminate floors. They have a line of waterproof flooring that can make their products more durable than others. Armstrong flooring is available at a range of vendors. Some sell and install, while others only sell. You can choose to have your Armstrong flooring put in by the installer of your choice.
The cost of having Mohawk laminate installed ranges from $6 to $12 a square foot. Mohawk manufactures several laminate floors. They have a range of high-quality materials to choose from. They also have many styles and thicknesses. Mohawk is available from a wide range of vendors. Some sell and install, while others only sell.
The cost to have Pergo installed is between $6 and $12 a square foot. Pergo is the manufacturer of a wide range of laminate flooring products. Pergo is one of the best-known names and pioneered many flooring techniques. Their laminates are sold by a wide range of dealers. Some install, while others only sell. The Pergo type you install directly impacts your project costs.
Laminate flooring comes with a range of desirable features. Some are scratch-resistant, making them longer-lasting and less likely to degrade. Other forms are water-resistant, noise-resistant, approved for underfloor warming, or installable over a cork underlayment:
|Cost per Square Foot (Materials Only)
|Approved for Underfloor Warming
|$0.99 - $4.99
|$0.99 - $4.99
|Approved for Cork Underlayment
|$0.99 - $4.99
|Does Not Need to Be Waxed or Polished
|$0.99 - $5.99
|$1.40 - $5.60
|$1.70 - $5.80
|Fitted with Underlayment
|$1.90 - $5.90
The cost of having underfloor warming-approved laminate is between $0.99 and $4.99 a square foot. Nearly all types are approved for underfloor warming. It is extremely common to install this material over in-floor heating 4 systems. It does not shrink and handles heat well. The underlayment you use determines how well the flooring is insulated. The thicker the underlayment, the better insulated the floor is.
The cost of scratch-resistant laminate ranges from $0.99 to $4.99 a square foot. Many types are scratch-resistant. This usually means the surface has been given a long-wearing topcoat. This helps it resist most scuffs and scratches. However, it is still not recommended to drag heavy furniture across the floor. This, and using the laminate in high-traffic areas where sand and grit may be tracked, can result in some scratches.
The cost of laminate that has been approved for cork underlayment is between $0.99 and $4.99. There are many types of underlayment you can use. Cork is a favorite because it is resilient and works with a wide range of thicknesses. Cork is also naturally water-resistant. This helps keep moisture beneath your floor to a minimum without the extra thickness. Most types can be used with cork, except the very thinnest types.
The cost of laminate that never has to be waxed or polished averages $0.99 to $5.99 a square foot. This is one of the many benefits of using this material over another material. It does not need a homeowner-applied topcoat or surface. The material's surface is designed to be long-wearing. Matte or semi-matte surfaces cannot be polished. If you choose a polished surface, it is designed to hold that polish without requiring you to wax or polish it yourself.
The cost of noise-resistant laminate is between $1.40 and $5.60 a square foot. It is generally thicker than average. 10 mm and 12 mm is usually less noisy than thinner ones. You can increase the noise resistance of this type of material with a thicker underlayment. Combining a thicker material with a thicker underlayment can give you the best results. No laminate is completely noiseless, but using a thicker material can reduce the noise.
Water-resistant laminate costs between $1.70 and $5.80 a square foot. It helps prevent swelling and warping that happens when it comes in contact with water or moisture. This type gives you time to mop up spills. It is not designed for use in very wet areas. While it is water-resistant, it is not waterproof. This means that prolonged exposure to moisture can cause damage.
The cost of laminate flooring with underlayment ranges from $1.90 to $5.90 a square foot. The vast majority of this type of floor needs a separate underlayment. Some types come with an underlayment already attached. You have fewer choices with this type than if you use a separate underlayment. Installation is usually more difficult with this material. Adding the underlayment to it makes the floor thicker. This means it is harder to cut and float, so most installers prefer a separate underlayment.
Molding and trim can add the finishing touches to your laminate flooring. They are not necessary for most installations. However, there may be times when you need trim or a threshold to complete the project. In those cases, use the same material for trim or molding for a cohesive look:
|Average Costs per Linear Foot (Materials Only)
|Quarter Round
|$0.99 - $2.99
|$3.25 - $6.99
|$3.49 - $5.99
|Flush Stair Nose
|$4.49 - $6.49
|Step Nose
|$4.95 - $9.99
Quarter round moldings cost between $0.99 and $2.99 a linear foot. Laminate flooring is designed to run up to, but not touch, the walls of the room. There is a gap around the perimeter of the room. If you have baseboards, they cover this space. If you do not have baseboards, a quarter-round molding fills the space where the floor meets the wall. This is a thin molding that fills the gap and completes the appearance.
Thresholds cost between $3.25 and $6.99 a linear foot. Thresholds are the transition between two rooms or from one floor type to another. They help transition between two floors. They can be made of any material, but it is common to have your threshold match at least one flooring material. They can be laminate and have the same color, finish, and texture as the floor. They come in many shapes and profiles.
T-molding ranges from $3.49 to $5.99 a linear foot. A T-molding is used in the doorway between two floors of similar thickness. Most commonly, you use a laminate T-molding if two floors meet in a doorway. The molding is shaped like the letter T. The upper portion covers the ends of the two sides of the floor, which connect underneath either side of the vertical piece. The threshold is raised slightly above the floor.
The cost of a flush stair nose is between $4.49 and $6.49 a linear foot. This is a rounded piece you use to finish a landing, step-down, or stair tread. The piece has a rounded "bullnose" finish on one side that is thicker than the rest of the laminate. It starts out flush with the rest of the floor and rounds down the step or stair's edge. It is necessary to give you a finished appearance on a stair or step. Without it, you would see the unfinished edge at the start of a tread.
The cost of a step nose ranges from $4.95 to $9.99 a linear foot. This is the curved finish piece that starts the top stair or a landing. If you have laminate flooring on an upper level and extend it to the stairs, you need a step nose on the top step. This is true whether you use this material down or transition to another material at the first riser. A step nose is wider and larger than a flush stair nose. It is meant to have a thicker profile and provide a prominently finished look.
The cost to remove carpeting before installation is around $0.11 to $0.22 a square foot, plus disposal fees of around $50 to $100. This includes the installation costs of the new laminate between $6 and $14 a square foot, making the total costs between $6.11 and $14.22 plus disposal fees. If your installer finds the subfloor needs repair or other work must be done when removing the old carpeting, your costs can be higher.
Laminate and vinyl flooring are both synthetic alternatives to natural wood flooring. Both material types are available in plank styles that can mimic the look of wood floors and tiles that can mimic the appearance of stone. In addition, vinyl can also come in a range of other styles, including sheets and adhesive-back tiles.
Laminate flooring is made up of multiple layers that have been laminated together. They have a long-wearing top coat with a printed layer just below it. Vinyl flooring can also be made of layers, most with a solid vinyl core, but some have a stone and polymer core or wood and polymer core. Vinyl is a type of plastic, so vinyl flooring is impervious to things like moisture and staining. In contrast, many of the materials that make up laminate are fiber-based. This means that while vinyl can be installed in damp areas, laminate should not be. If laminate is exposed to moisture, it can swell or warp.
Of the two materials, laminate often has a more realistic-looking appearance than vinyl. However, vinyl comes in many different qualities and types. Luxury vinyl tends to have a better appearance than standard, which can rival the look of laminate. Laminate also lasts longer than vinyl - 30 years on average as opposed to vinyl's 20 years. Vinyl is the lower-cost material, both to install and purchase. Below are the average costs to install 200 sq.ft. of each material.
|Average Costs (Installed)
|$600 - $2,000
|$1,500 - $3,500
Laminate is frequently seen as a less expensive alternative to hardwood flooring. Hardwood costs between $14 and $32 a square foot installed, making it more expensive than laminate. Laminate is faster and easier to install and has lower costs for the material. This includes the underlayment, which is not often necessary for a hardwood installation.
Like laminate, there are many hardwoods. Some, like prefinished engineered hardwood, are less expensive to install than others. This accounts for some of the larger cost range for hardwood. Laminate can also be installed DIY if you desire, while hardwood must be installed professionally for the best results.
While some hardwoods should not be used in damp areas, other types like engineered hardwood can. No laminate should be used in damp areas because it is more likely to swell and warp if exposed to moisture. Of the two types, hardwood lasts considerably longer than laminate. Hardwood can last for 100 years or more with proper care, while laminate lasts 30 years.
However, laminate is the less-expensive option to purchase and install. Below are the average costs of both materials in a 200 sq.ft. installation.
|Average Costs (Installed)
|$1,500 - $3,500
|$2,800 - $6,400
Another popular material to consider for your floors is carpet. Carpet and laminate can be installed in most rooms of the home. They come in many styles, making them suitable for most homes. However, while laminate can be installed DIY, carpet requires professional installation.
Like laminate, there are many types of carpeting and carpet underlayments to choose from. This affects the project's overall cost and helps determine your final costs. Choosing a natural material like wool and using a thicker carpet pad means a much more expensive installation. However, you can use a thinner synthetic carpet for less. Using a thicker laminate also increases costs, while thinner laminates can be less expensive.
When choosing between materials, consider longevity and maintenance. In general, laminate is easier to maintain and longer-lasting than carpeting. However, carpet tends to be less expensive and more comfortable than laminate. Below are the average costs to install 200 sq.ft. of both materials.
|Average Costs (Installed)
|$980 - $1,680
|$1,500 - $3,500
As with all flooring, there are pros and cons to laminate. Depending on your lifestyle, living situation, and personal preferences, it may be the ideal solution for your home's floors.
Laminate is very affordable, cheaper than genuine hardwood floors. It is also widely available, easily accessible, and comes in a range of looks and finishes. However, it is not as durable as hardwood, lasting about 30 years, and is also more vulnerable to scratches and tears. It can also be regarded as less attractive than real hardwood because of its synthetic nature, so it does not improve resale value.
Laminate flooring can be installed over the existing floor, which can save time and hassle. However, this can lead to a non-level floor in the future. Many homeowners feel that removing or replacing subflooring is beyond their skill level and hire a carpenter to lay a new subfloor or remove the old. The average carpenter charges around $70 per hour, and it should take no more than a day. It is a good idea to remove the old floor before they arrive to install the new one. The approximate cost of removing a 200 sq.ft. floor is $400.
If you already have baseboards present in the room where you are installing laminate flooring, you have two options: remove the baseboards and reuse/replace them after installation or leave the baseboards in and install a quarter round to cover the gap. The cost of baseboard materials is reasonable, ranging from about $0.70 per sq.ft. for basic styles to $1.50 per sq.ft. for premium styles. You can hire a carpenter for this job at around $70 per hour.
When installing laminate floors look into enhancing the floors with radiant heating. Radiant floor heating cannot be installed on existing flooring, so it is a good time to look into this improvement. Radiant floor heating system installations are typically expensive and require a professional to install. The average cost for installing radiant floor heating in an average-size home ranges from $20,000 to $35,000, depending on the time it takes to complete. Most of the installation cost for radiant floor heating is labor. Materials cost around $1.50 to $2 per square foot, plus labor costs of $10 to $12 per square foot.
Installing a laminate floor can be very easy if the directions are followed properly. Most DIY workers complete the entire floor in a day.
To install the tiles, remove the tongue from the first piece. That side faces the wall. Place the tongue of the second plank into the groove of the first, starting an angle. When the tongue fits into the groove, press down until it snaps in place. Continue this in rows. *Leave a ¼" gap at the edges of the room to allow for floor expansion.
Depending on the floor, it can cost between $6,000 and $14,000. This includes all material and labor costs.
It depends on the material and room size, but usually a few hours to a day.
It can be walked on as soon as the floor is installed.
You can place your furniture as soon as the flooring is fully installed.
You can, but the thinner the laminate, the more likely it dents. Thicker ones can handle heavier furniture better.
No, area rugs can protect your laminate from scratches, spills, and other surface damage.
Cost to install laminate flooring varies greatly by region (and even by zip code). To get free estimates from local contractors, please indicate yours.


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Deep potholes in road H&S issue
Reported via iOS in the Potholes & road surface category anonymously at 13:02, Wed 28 July 2021
Sent to Bath and North East Somerset Council less than a minute later
Several deep potholes in the road near curb side that could create a very nasty trip injury for pedestrians crossing in low light times, possibly broken ankles?
Thank you for this report. We will review the details and carry out an inspection of the site if required.
9 out of 10 Potholes & Road Surface reports are updated within 10 working days once we decide what action to take. To find out what we do and why it might take longer, please visit https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/ fmsroads
If you have more information about the issue you can add an update to this report.
State changed to: In progress
Posted by Systems Team at 13:03, Wed 28 July 2021
We've looked into this report and passed the details on to our contractor. They will plan and carry out any work needed. 4 out of 5 issues are updated within 30 working days.
To find out what we do and why it might take longer, please visit https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/ fmsroads01
We'll update this report when the contractor has completed their work.
State changed to: Action scheduled
Posted by Systems Team at 13:00, Fri 30 July 2021
Our contractor has now completed their work. If this issue reoccurs please log a new report.
Thank you for using Fix My Street. Reporting issues like this online can help us deal with them more efficiently.
To find out more about what we do, please visit https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/ fmsroads04
State changed to: Fixed
Posted by Systems Team at 13:00, Fri 30 July 2021
Still open, via questionnaire, 20:51, Wed 25 August 2021
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What side effects have you experienced from taking vitamins and/or calcium supplements? Submit Your Comment
I had severe joint pain for a month and a half; no idea what caused it. It started in my feet, moved up to my knees, hips, arms, shoulders, wrists and fingers. I would wake up with my joints so stiff and painful it would take 20 minutes for me to get moving off my bed! I couldn't lift my hands above my head, couldn't put on my bra, it hurt to sit, hurt to get up, and hurt to stand. I tried cutting out sugar, gluten, and other known allergens. I tried different supplements and nothing worked. Then I bought a coconut at the store because my kids hadn't had real coconut before. They were all excited to try the coconut water, but they didn't like it, so I drank it. The next day I wasn't so sore, so I drank the rest of the coconut water and improvement the next day also! So I went to the health food store and bought coconut water. I drink a glass every day. And now I can walk, run, play with my kids, dress myself! I still have occasional stiffness in my hands, but nothing like it was before. I know that coconut water has a lot of potassium in it and although my potassium levels were never checked, I was tested for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, both which came back negative.
Having taken Adcal-D3 caplets for over 2 years for early menopause I have been experiencing lethargy, swollen neck, and weakness all over my body especially my legs. My chiropractor suggested I see my general physician (GP) regarding the swollen neck. As it turns out I am suffering from hypocalcemia toxicity. This was the first blood test in all that time. A blood test should have been requested after taking this medicine for 6 months. If my chiropractor had not urged me to see the GP, who knows how long I would have been poisoned. I urge people who take Adcal-D3 to ensure they have regular blood tests to check their calcium levels.
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Medical care -- Law and legislation -- United States
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