Mr MOSS taid he could hardly help asking himself " Is Saul,too.among the prophets?"whe_n he heard Mr Hursthouse express such senti ments as he did just before. He was disposed to be very cheerful now, for he had seldom heard a debate more calculated to iuspire hope. He ascribed the present position as the system of bribery which had gone on since 1876, when the people were bribed to surrender their liberty of self-government.. Until they found a Govern ment bold enough to face the position, they would have to go on as the present Government was doing. He sympathised with the views of Mr Wakefie'd, but did not think there -was any hope of stopping borrowing under the present circumstance:;, unless local bodies were strengthened and enabled to do the work which the Government was going to do no longer. It was no use talking about borrowing for railways onlv. Mr O'CONOR would have liked to see this loan raised for the purpose of purchasing land along the line of our railways. That, he believed, ■was the way to make railways reproductive. He at least disbelieved in spending money on unre productive works, Dr NEWMAN said the real position was that they would always have to borrow, but the ques tion was whether they should borrow for repro ductive or unreproductive works. The Govern ment's policy of trunk and paying lines when they came into office was a good one, but it had barai emphatically .ignored in all subsequent Public Works Statements. The Wellington and Hawke's Bay railway was an instance of that. This was a line against which no member had spoken, and it was n line that paid well, but it would not be completed for two years at least. He thought tliu colony wns go ing too far ahead in the mailer of railways. England had 52 miles of railway to every J.00,000 of population; the greater part of Europe, 03 miles; tho United States, 210 miles; and New Zealand, 231 miles. Mr HOBBS complained of the action of the Government regarding the North of Auckland 'line. The Government should come down with a definite scheme for the construction of main trunk lines, Mr MONTGOMERY said it was evidently m the mind of the Ministry that a. 