<story><title>Apple&apos;s claim is that it bans other browsers for security</title><url>https://twitter.com/OpenWebAdvocacy/status/1541318055636369409</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jpgvm</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t think the IE comparison is apt.&lt;p&gt;IE shipped on (almost) every machine, had a ton of lock in features like ActiveX, etc. MS actively abused their monopoly position to make it so preventing default installation of Netscape by OEMs, incentivising ISVs to ensure web based enterprise products shipped with &amp;quot;Works best in Internet Explorer&amp;quot; etc.
Netscape lost market share to IE not because it lost users but because while the userbase was massively expanding they were buying Wintel boxes that shipped with IE on them so they never learnt that Netscape existed.&lt;p&gt;Chrome is something users install because it&amp;#x27;s their preferred choice. We can argue as to why it&amp;#x27;s their preferred choice but the point remains that users actively download and install Chrome - usually as one of the first things they do when they purchase a new computer.&lt;p&gt;That to me puts things on an entirely different level. To compete reasonably with Chrome you need to compete for users directly. You could argue that Google abuses it&amp;#x27;s monopoly position to market Chrome and that would probably be a valid argument but again, it doesn&amp;#x27;t change the active decision users are making.&lt;p&gt;If anything Safari (especially on iOS) is more like IE. In that it serves Apple more than it serves users. Apple wants PWAs to remain gimped, by simply dragging their feet or refusing to implement certain web standards&amp;#x2F;proposals they effectively gimp PWAs. This forces apps to be written for their platform which in turn is where they generate the vast majority of their scalable growth&amp;#x2F;profit.</text></item><item><author>MBCook</author><text>I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear.&lt;p&gt;Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity.&lt;p&gt;Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect)&lt;p&gt;People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fear we may get a pyrrhic victory if these groups&amp;#x2F;governments keep pushing.&lt;p&gt;No, I don’t know a good solution. But I don’t think letting Chrome totally own the web is a good outcome.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>GrabbinD33ze69</author><text>Pretending that just cause chrome doesn&amp;#x27;t come installed with the android open src project, means it isn&amp;#x27;t a &amp;quot;default&amp;quot; for android is silly; yes, google play services isn&amp;#x27;t required for android, but an overwhelming majority of android users will see chrome as the default for the OS. You claim they are making a choice, but for the average user it doesn&amp;#x27;t seem like much of a choice. It&amp;#x27;s easier for most android apps just to use chrome as an &amp;quot;in app browser&amp;quot;, while the users have the option to use a different browser, most won&amp;#x27;t.</text></comment>
<story><title>Apple&apos;s claim is that it bans other browsers for security</title><url>https://twitter.com/OpenWebAdvocacy/status/1541318055636369409</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jpgvm</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t think the IE comparison is apt.&lt;p&gt;IE shipped on (almost) every machine, had a ton of lock in features like ActiveX, etc. MS actively abused their monopoly position to make it so preventing default installation of Netscape by OEMs, incentivising ISVs to ensure web based enterprise products shipped with &amp;quot;Works best in Internet Explorer&amp;quot; etc.
Netscape lost market share to IE not because it lost users but because while the userbase was massively expanding they were buying Wintel boxes that shipped with IE on them so they never learnt that Netscape existed.&lt;p&gt;Chrome is something users install because it&amp;#x27;s their preferred choice. We can argue as to why it&amp;#x27;s their preferred choice but the point remains that users actively download and install Chrome - usually as one of the first things they do when they purchase a new computer.&lt;p&gt;That to me puts things on an entirely different level. To compete reasonably with Chrome you need to compete for users directly. You could argue that Google abuses it&amp;#x27;s monopoly position to market Chrome and that would probably be a valid argument but again, it doesn&amp;#x27;t change the active decision users are making.&lt;p&gt;If anything Safari (especially on iOS) is more like IE. In that it serves Apple more than it serves users. Apple wants PWAs to remain gimped, by simply dragging their feet or refusing to implement certain web standards&amp;#x2F;proposals they effectively gimp PWAs. This forces apps to be written for their platform which in turn is where they generate the vast majority of their scalable growth&amp;#x2F;profit.</text></item><item><author>MBCook</author><text>I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear.&lt;p&gt;Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity.&lt;p&gt;Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect)&lt;p&gt;People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fear we may get a pyrrhic victory if these groups&amp;#x2F;governments keep pushing.&lt;p&gt;No, I don’t know a good solution. But I don’t think letting Chrome totally own the web is a good outcome.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>cute_boi</author><text>Chrome is installed by default in android. The choice won&amp;#x27;t be preferred choice if website starts to put message like &amp;quot;Works best with Google Chrome&amp;quot;.</text></comment>