<story><title>As Amazon deforestation hits 12 year high, France rejects Brazilian soy</title><url>https://news.mongabay.com/2020/12/as-amazon-deforestation-hits-12-year-high-france-rejects-brazilian-soy/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>wombatmobile</author><text>What percentage of its old growth forests does France retain?&lt;p&gt;If the answer is a very small number, doesn&amp;#x27;t that make historical France guilty of what these measures seek to prevent happening in Brazil?&lt;p&gt;To the extent this is a moral argument, shouldn&amp;#x27;t France atone for its misdeeds by regenerating wild forests, to be left unmolested in perpetuity?&lt;p&gt;If nobody is advocating any such thing, perhaps this isn&amp;#x27;t a moral argument, or even an environmental argument.  Perhaps it&amp;#x27;s an economic initiative from the people who stand to gain from the French production of soy beans.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>notafraudster</author><text>Your framing:&lt;p&gt;- France cuts its own forests down, lectures other people about cutting their forests down, what hypocrites.&lt;p&gt;Result of taking framing to conclusion:&lt;p&gt;- Everyone should be able to cut their forests down with impunity, then when we have no forests, we should try to figure out a solution now that we&amp;#x27;re no longer hypocrites.&lt;p&gt;My framing:&lt;p&gt;- France, having (as most of Europe did) extensively deforested for ship timber hundreds of years ago, witnesses the devastating effects of deforestation locally, and tries to mitigate future deforestation. They try to recover local forests, though they will never recover to levels from, say, 1200AD. Although the cat is out of the bag in many places, we now understand this to be a global problem, which should be solved globally&lt;p&gt;Result of taking framing to its logical conclusion:&lt;p&gt;- No one should engage in aggressive deforestation, and we should look at mechanisms of economic compensation to help countries whose growth is limited because of this from countries who benefited from it before we understood it to be wrong. OECD countries should aggressively support and fund reforestation of the Rainforest and African Green Belt.&lt;p&gt;I dunno what to say, man.</text></comment>
<story><title>As Amazon deforestation hits 12 year high, France rejects Brazilian soy</title><url>https://news.mongabay.com/2020/12/as-amazon-deforestation-hits-12-year-high-france-rejects-brazilian-soy/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>wombatmobile</author><text>What percentage of its old growth forests does France retain?&lt;p&gt;If the answer is a very small number, doesn&amp;#x27;t that make historical France guilty of what these measures seek to prevent happening in Brazil?&lt;p&gt;To the extent this is a moral argument, shouldn&amp;#x27;t France atone for its misdeeds by regenerating wild forests, to be left unmolested in perpetuity?&lt;p&gt;If nobody is advocating any such thing, perhaps this isn&amp;#x27;t a moral argument, or even an environmental argument.  Perhaps it&amp;#x27;s an economic initiative from the people who stand to gain from the French production of soy beans.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rbtprograms</author><text>I think it&amp;#x27;s generally easy to point the finger at others while ignoring our own short comings. I feel the same way about the USA pointing the finger at other countries human rights violations while simultaneously struggling to come to terms with our own treatment of minorities and indigenous people in the past.&lt;p&gt;Maybe it&amp;#x27;s a mix of hypocrisy and political gain. I just hope there comes a time where we can all do better.</text></comment>