<story><title>Messengers of hope: two mRNA Covid-19 vaccines herald a new era for vaccinology</title><url>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-00807-1</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>axiosgunnar</author><text>Are you saying there are genetic differences between races?</text></item><item><author>programmarchy</author><text>Yeah, I’m actually very hopeful that mRNA medicine will be able to overcome issues like these in ways traditional vaccines couldn’t. For example, variations could be developed that are more effective for each racial group, rather than a one-size-fits all approach that may be biased. From there, perhaps even individuals who have autoimmune disease markers could have variants developed for them as well.</text></item><item><author>Exmoor</author><text>&amp;gt; Presumably if a viral infection could trigger an autoimmune response in certain genetically predisposed groups, then so could a vaccine designed to mimic a virus.&lt;p&gt;This is true. Some of the extremely rare auto-immune issues that have impacted people who have been vaccinated for specific flu viruses in, IIRC, 1976 and 2009, were thought to occur at even higher rates and severity with people who contracted the virus. So, vaccination might impact you, but likely worse the the virus itself due to the greater amount of virus in your system.&lt;p&gt;I am not a scientist, but I would expect that the mRNA vaccines would have less of a chance of having an auto-immune reaction since they contain only one of the many proteins contained in the actual virus.</text></item><item><author>programmarchy</author><text>Do we really know this? Obviously the spike proteins are using an existing mechanism (ACE2) in our bodies to bind to cells. Of primary importance to both viruses and our reproductive system is the membrane fusion function for instance. We must also consider how our bodies developed in the first place; “RNA world” and “virus world” theories predict our genetics evolved from RNA-based processes or even a primordial graveyard of viral RNA.&lt;p&gt;We also don’t fully understand what causes autoimmune disease, but various environmental causes have been explored including bacterial and viral infections. Presumably if a viral infection could trigger an autoimmune response in certain genetically predisposed groups, then so could a vaccine designed to mimic a virus.&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately the incentives in our medical system are not designed to find cures for autoimmune diseases, although they are very much incentivized for palliative care, so progress has been painfully slow in understanding the deeper complexities of the immune system.</text></item><item><author>ch4s3</author><text>The viral spike proteins aren’t like other proteins the float around in your body, but the are like the proteins on other viruses. Your immune system also has a baroque system for determining which things in your body belong to you.</text></item><item><author>jcims</author><text>How do they ensure that antibodies for the spike protein don&amp;#x27;t interfere with other processes in the body?  E.g. if the spike protein bears a sufficient resemblance to part of another protein expressed by healthy human tissue, is there a risk of an immune response?  Presumably the Phase 1 trial would sort that out for the most part, just wondering if there is any kind of ability to screen for that ahead of time.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jcims</author><text>There are definitely phenotypical  variations in humans that have health implications.  To the extent that some of these are adaptive to region they may align with the rather poorly defined buckets we call ‘race’.&lt;p&gt;To GP’s point, lack of diversity in clinical trials can result in medicines that vary in efficacy and safety in the broader population.  The ability to customize a therapy to an individual would help reduce the impact of this issue.</text></comment>
<story><title>Messengers of hope: two mRNA Covid-19 vaccines herald a new era for vaccinology</title><url>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-00807-1</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>axiosgunnar</author><text>Are you saying there are genetic differences between races?</text></item><item><author>programmarchy</author><text>Yeah, I’m actually very hopeful that mRNA medicine will be able to overcome issues like these in ways traditional vaccines couldn’t. For example, variations could be developed that are more effective for each racial group, rather than a one-size-fits all approach that may be biased. From there, perhaps even individuals who have autoimmune disease markers could have variants developed for them as well.</text></item><item><author>Exmoor</author><text>&amp;gt; Presumably if a viral infection could trigger an autoimmune response in certain genetically predisposed groups, then so could a vaccine designed to mimic a virus.&lt;p&gt;This is true. Some of the extremely rare auto-immune issues that have impacted people who have been vaccinated for specific flu viruses in, IIRC, 1976 and 2009, were thought to occur at even higher rates and severity with people who contracted the virus. So, vaccination might impact you, but likely worse the the virus itself due to the greater amount of virus in your system.&lt;p&gt;I am not a scientist, but I would expect that the mRNA vaccines would have less of a chance of having an auto-immune reaction since they contain only one of the many proteins contained in the actual virus.</text></item><item><author>programmarchy</author><text>Do we really know this? Obviously the spike proteins are using an existing mechanism (ACE2) in our bodies to bind to cells. Of primary importance to both viruses and our reproductive system is the membrane fusion function for instance. We must also consider how our bodies developed in the first place; “RNA world” and “virus world” theories predict our genetics evolved from RNA-based processes or even a primordial graveyard of viral RNA.&lt;p&gt;We also don’t fully understand what causes autoimmune disease, but various environmental causes have been explored including bacterial and viral infections. Presumably if a viral infection could trigger an autoimmune response in certain genetically predisposed groups, then so could a vaccine designed to mimic a virus.&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately the incentives in our medical system are not designed to find cures for autoimmune diseases, although they are very much incentivized for palliative care, so progress has been painfully slow in understanding the deeper complexities of the immune system.</text></item><item><author>ch4s3</author><text>The viral spike proteins aren’t like other proteins the float around in your body, but the are like the proteins on other viruses. Your immune system also has a baroque system for determining which things in your body belong to you.</text></item><item><author>jcims</author><text>How do they ensure that antibodies for the spike protein don&amp;#x27;t interfere with other processes in the body?  E.g. if the spike protein bears a sufficient resemblance to part of another protein expressed by healthy human tissue, is there a risk of an immune response?  Presumably the Phase 1 trial would sort that out for the most part, just wondering if there is any kind of ability to screen for that ahead of time.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>panta</author><text>AFAIK there are no human races from a taxonomic point of view, all human beings belong to the same subspecies. There are of course genetic differences between individuals and ethnic groups though, otherwise we would be all identical twins (the point is not condemning the differences - differences are in general a good thing - the point is not attaching value judgements to the differences).</text></comment>