<story><title>Andl, a relational language that is not SQL, is coming to Postgres</title><url>http://www.andl.org/2016/04/postgres-meet-andl/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>yomly</author><text>Interesting coincidence for me that this hits the front page of HN today as I recently read this article [0].&lt;p&gt;The author thinks we should move away using the database purely to persist the data, while handling all logic&amp;#x2F;validation in the server language (e.g. By using an ORM to map your server language to the database) was less robust over time.&lt;p&gt;Instead, he suggests pushing knowledge of your data into your database as this has proven to be more time resilient and takes advantage of the power of these databases.&lt;p&gt;I liked the argument (which is better expressed that my paraphrasing) but my largest reservation was that expressiveness is a big consideration for choosing some language, and in this case the alternative to using Ruby&amp;#x2F;JS&amp;#x2F;Python + ORM in your MVC framework is to use SQL functions, which are syntactically clunky&amp;#x2F;dated at the very least.&lt;p&gt;It seems like Andl is looking to bridge this to some extent.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>mistermann</author><text>The problem with this theory is programming in some databases (MS SQL Server) is extremely unpleasant.&lt;p&gt;For example, you can finally, in the year 2016, split strings natively in TSQL:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;splitting-strings-sql-server-2016-rescue&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;splitting-strings-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Compare that to this SO question:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;stackoverflow.com&amp;#x2F;questions&amp;#x2F;2647&amp;#x2F;how-do-i-split-a-string-so-i-can-access-item-x&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;stackoverflow.com&amp;#x2F;questions&amp;#x2F;2647&amp;#x2F;how-do-i-split-a-str...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Note there are 32 answers on that question, many of which fail under various edge cases.  Also notice that no one finds this situation absurd in the slightest (Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well in the MSSQL community apparently).  This is just one example of the nonsense you have to put up with on SQL Server, there are many others.&lt;p&gt;And while PG is getting yet another new language capability, it appears Microsoft is pulling SQLCLR support (in Azure, so far):&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;breaking-news-literally-sql-clr-support-removed-azure-sql-db&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;breaking-news-lite...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;...which probably doesn&amp;#x27;t matter at the end of the day because almost no DBA would ever let you use it in production.&lt;p&gt;While it would cause harm to my personal career, nothing would make me happier than to see Postgres crush MSSQL, Microsoft has earned nothing less with their absolute disdain for their users.</text></comment>
<story><title>Andl, a relational language that is not SQL, is coming to Postgres</title><url>http://www.andl.org/2016/04/postgres-meet-andl/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>yomly</author><text>Interesting coincidence for me that this hits the front page of HN today as I recently read this article [0].&lt;p&gt;The author thinks we should move away using the database purely to persist the data, while handling all logic&amp;#x2F;validation in the server language (e.g. By using an ORM to map your server language to the database) was less robust over time.&lt;p&gt;Instead, he suggests pushing knowledge of your data into your database as this has proven to be more time resilient and takes advantage of the power of these databases.&lt;p&gt;I liked the argument (which is better expressed that my paraphrasing) but my largest reservation was that expressiveness is a big consideration for choosing some language, and in this case the alternative to using Ruby&amp;#x2F;JS&amp;#x2F;Python + ORM in your MVC framework is to use SQL functions, which are syntactically clunky&amp;#x2F;dated at the very least.&lt;p&gt;It seems like Andl is looking to bridge this to some extent.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>icebraining</author><text>In Postgres you were never really restricted to SQL, there&amp;#x27;s built-in support for Tcl, Perl and Python, and third-party support for others.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.postgresql.org&amp;#x2F;docs&amp;#x2F;9.5&amp;#x2F;static&amp;#x2F;xplang.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.postgresql.org&amp;#x2F;docs&amp;#x2F;9.5&amp;#x2F;static&amp;#x2F;xplang.html&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>