<story><title>Lisp as an alternative to Java (2000)</title><url>https://norvig.com/java-lisp.html</url></story><parent_chain></parent_chain><comment><author>mabbo</author><text>I think the lesson to learn from Java was that we, developers, were evaluating languages on the wrong parameters.&lt;p&gt;Java is too verbose! (But that can reduce the need for so many comments, and comments can often mislead as software changes. Also, Java 8 was 2014 and it changed the game massively.)&lt;p&gt;Java runs slowly because of the JVM! (But the JVM evolves and improves, giving free upgrades to all Java programs over time. Also, I have a multi-GHZ processor now.)&lt;p&gt;Java takes longer to write! (But the first time you write a program is never the hard part- it&amp;#x27;s continuous evolution of software that matters.)&lt;p&gt;Norvig&amp;#x27;s code is beautiful and very good Lisp. But it&amp;#x27;s so dense that it requires more lines of explanatory comments than actual functionality. The code&amp;#x27;s functionality isn&amp;#x27;t self-evident. And sure, you can write Java code that has the same flaws, but I find it&amp;#x27;s easier to write readable Java code than it is to write readable Lisp.&lt;p&gt;I think Python&amp;#x27;s success is further evidence of this perspective.</text></comment>
<story><title>Lisp as an alternative to Java (2000)</title><url>https://norvig.com/java-lisp.html</url></story><parent_chain></parent_chain><comment><author>dang</author><text>If curious, related past threads (some with comments by norvig! &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;posts?id=norvig&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;posts?id=norvig&lt;/a&gt;):&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an Alternative to Java – Faster, More Productive&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=21899854&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=21899854&lt;/a&gt; - Dec 2019 (1 comment)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an Alternative to Java (1999)&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=12197131&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=12197131&lt;/a&gt; - July 2016 (103 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an Alternative to Java (2000) [pdf]&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=9045574&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=9045574&lt;/a&gt; - Feb 2015 (21 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an alternative to Java (2000) [pdf]&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=8446368&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=8446368&lt;/a&gt; - Oct 2014 (55 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an Alternative to Java&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=3447101&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=3447101&lt;/a&gt; - Jan 2012 (37 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Python as an Alternative to Lisp or Java, Peter Norvig revisited&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=2032743&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=2032743&lt;/a&gt; - Dec 2010 (95 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Ask PG: Lisp vs Python (2010)&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=1803351&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=1803351&lt;/a&gt; - Oct 2010 (192 comments)&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Lisp as an Alternative to Java [PDF]&lt;/i&gt; - &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=61320&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=61320&lt;/a&gt; - Sept 2007 (9 comments)</text></comment>