<story><title>Military intelligence buys location data instead of getting warrants</title><url>https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/military-intelligence-buys-location-data-instead-of-getting-warrants-memo-shows/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>2OEH8eoCRo0</author><text>Why should they need a warrant for information that&amp;#x27;s being sold or public?</text></item><item><author>sneak</author><text>US military intelligence already believes that they don&amp;#x27;t need warrants; they&amp;#x27;ve decided (in a secret, internal opinion) via the (again, secret) FISA court that the FISA Amendments Act, section 702, permits them to retrieve data on anyone they like directly from the service providers, even if those people are suspected of no crime, and are citizens&amp;#x2F;residents of the US.  This has been going on for &lt;i&gt;fourteen years&lt;/i&gt;, since Microsoft became the first partner in the program on (lol) 11th September, 2007, and started giving them dumps of people&amp;#x27;s hotmail email boxes and such.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s the #1 source for NSA reporting, eclipsing even their bulk cable wiretaps.  They can hit a button and get Google Takeout, but for all major US online services, for anyone they choose, no warrant required.&lt;p&gt;These sorts of headlines pretend that their &amp;quot;normal&amp;quot; way of spying &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; require warrants.  It absolutely does not.&lt;p&gt;A lot of people seem to still carry the misconception that the FISA orders (again, not warrants, no probable cause, issued by a classified court (also run by US military intelligence) that never denies a request) are only for foreigners (&amp;quot;foreign&amp;quot; is right in the name).  That&amp;#x27;s also not true: they use it to target US citizens too.&lt;p&gt;This specific circumstance was cited by Ed Snowden as one of the main reasons he came forward and told everyone that this was happening.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.eff.org&amp;#x2F;702-spying&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.eff.org&amp;#x2F;702-spying&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The participants in this system as of 2013: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;interactive&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;nov&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;prism-slides-nsa-document&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;interactive&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;nov&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;pr...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>cbozeman</author><text>Because of this:&lt;p&gt;The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.</text></comment>
<story><title>Military intelligence buys location data instead of getting warrants</title><url>https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/military-intelligence-buys-location-data-instead-of-getting-warrants-memo-shows/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>2OEH8eoCRo0</author><text>Why should they need a warrant for information that&amp;#x27;s being sold or public?</text></item><item><author>sneak</author><text>US military intelligence already believes that they don&amp;#x27;t need warrants; they&amp;#x27;ve decided (in a secret, internal opinion) via the (again, secret) FISA court that the FISA Amendments Act, section 702, permits them to retrieve data on anyone they like directly from the service providers, even if those people are suspected of no crime, and are citizens&amp;#x2F;residents of the US.  This has been going on for &lt;i&gt;fourteen years&lt;/i&gt;, since Microsoft became the first partner in the program on (lol) 11th September, 2007, and started giving them dumps of people&amp;#x27;s hotmail email boxes and such.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s the #1 source for NSA reporting, eclipsing even their bulk cable wiretaps.  They can hit a button and get Google Takeout, but for all major US online services, for anyone they choose, no warrant required.&lt;p&gt;These sorts of headlines pretend that their &amp;quot;normal&amp;quot; way of spying &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; require warrants.  It absolutely does not.&lt;p&gt;A lot of people seem to still carry the misconception that the FISA orders (again, not warrants, no probable cause, issued by a classified court (also run by US military intelligence) that never denies a request) are only for foreigners (&amp;quot;foreign&amp;quot; is right in the name).  That&amp;#x27;s also not true: they use it to target US citizens too.&lt;p&gt;This specific circumstance was cited by Ed Snowden as one of the main reasons he came forward and told everyone that this was happening.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.eff.org&amp;#x2F;702-spying&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.eff.org&amp;#x2F;702-spying&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The participants in this system as of 2013: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;interactive&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;nov&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;prism-slides-nsa-document&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;interactive&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;nov&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;pr...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>mjevans</author><text>If the government would need a warrant to collect that data it should be illegal for any company to collect, sell, or in any other way utilize that same data.&lt;p&gt;That is basic consumer protection common sense; but even without the pandemic and the other four horseman of the apocalypse crisis of democracy facing the US, and most if not all other nations on the planet right now, don&amp;#x27;t expect any such consumer goods to be on the agenda.</text></comment>