<story><title>We were wrong</title><url>http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/we-were-wrong</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Cushman</author><text>This &amp;quot;defense&amp;quot; misses the point.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The gist of the controversial advice is &amp;quot;Don&amp;#x27;t wait for signs before you make your move. Let her be the one who rejects your advances. If she says no, stop immediately and tell her you don&amp;#x27;t want to do anything that would make her uncomfortable. Try again at a later time if appropriate or cease entirely if she is absolutely not interested.&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;This is not a defense. This advice leads to sexual assault. You are &lt;i&gt;assuming&lt;/i&gt; your partner&amp;#x27;s consent, and placing the burden on them to reject it. &lt;i&gt;That is the problem.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Without a clear verbal confirmation of consent, or an explicit proactive action, you &lt;i&gt;cannot know&lt;/i&gt; if your partner is participating willingly. Failure to reject is not the same thing as consent, and no adult should have difficulty understanding the distinction.&lt;p&gt;If you follow this advice, you &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; rape people while believing that they are just shy.&lt;p&gt;And for what? To avoid the embarrassment of saying, &amp;quot;So do you wanna fuck?&amp;quot; How old are you?&lt;p&gt;Or are you worried that if you ask a woman &amp;quot;So do you wanna fuck?&amp;quot;, she might say no? Do I even need to explain what&amp;#x27;s wrong with that?</text></item><item><author>angersock</author><text>Have some context:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;pastebin.com&amp;#x2F;zwHYzCZe&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;pastebin.com&amp;#x2F;zwHYzCZe&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;p&gt;A HNer who is ashamed of the lack of reading comprehension of this community right now.</text></item><item><author>ebbv</author><text>Dear fellow HN dwellers,&lt;p&gt;If you read the writings of the Guide&amp;#x27;s author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for &amp;quot;taking the first step.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman&amp;#x27;s hand on it in order to &amp;quot;make a move.&amp;quot; There&amp;#x27;s literally hundreds of other things that aren&amp;#x27;t sexual assault that you could do before resorting to that.&lt;p&gt;If you believe that&amp;#x27;s a reasonable &amp;quot;move&amp;quot; to make, then you not only have no imagination, but your judgment of what&amp;#x27;s acceptable behavior is way, way off. It doesn&amp;#x27;t matter if this is a woman who you&amp;#x27;re behind closed doors with for the first time, that&amp;#x27;s not a normal, acceptable &amp;quot;move&amp;quot;. That kind of thing is for people already in an established, ongoing relationship with a solid foundation of consent.&lt;p&gt;Without that consent, it is assault.&lt;p&gt;I strongly urge all of you who &amp;quot;do not see the problem&amp;quot; with the author&amp;#x27;s writings to do more research into exactly what consent is, and what women (as a whole, obviously it varies from individual to individual) see as acceptable, expected behavior.&lt;p&gt;If women are loudly saying &amp;quot;This is assault.&amp;quot;, you need to take them at their word, because it is their judgment, it is their &lt;i&gt;consent&lt;/i&gt; that matters. Not yours.&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;p&gt;A married, 34 year old HNer who is ashamed of this community right now.&lt;p&gt;EDIT:&lt;p&gt;I thought this was obvious but &lt;i&gt;I have already read all the comments in this thread and all the &amp;quot;context&amp;quot; the excusers are providing.&lt;/i&gt; If you think pointing me to that again is refuting my points, then you didn&amp;#x27;t understand what I wrote.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>300bps</author><text>&amp;gt;And for what? To avoid the embarrassment of saying, &amp;quot;So do you wanna fuck?&amp;quot; How old are you?&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not the person you wrote this to, but I can answer that I am 41 years old, have been married for 11 years and have three children (including a daughter).&lt;p&gt;When I think of the little scene you&amp;#x27;ve played out there occurring, I see the biggest nerd in the world getting his first chance at making out with a girl when he awkwardly stops and says, &amp;quot;Do you consent to fornication at this time?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Frankly, your advice makes you sound unbelievably young and inexperienced with women.  I have yet to meet a woman that wants you ask permission for every stage of a sexual relationship.  In fact, every woman I&amp;#x27;ve talked to about the subject has told me that it&amp;#x27;s specifically unwanted.</text></comment>
<story><title>We were wrong</title><url>http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/we-were-wrong</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Cushman</author><text>This &amp;quot;defense&amp;quot; misses the point.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The gist of the controversial advice is &amp;quot;Don&amp;#x27;t wait for signs before you make your move. Let her be the one who rejects your advances. If she says no, stop immediately and tell her you don&amp;#x27;t want to do anything that would make her uncomfortable. Try again at a later time if appropriate or cease entirely if she is absolutely not interested.&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;This is not a defense. This advice leads to sexual assault. You are &lt;i&gt;assuming&lt;/i&gt; your partner&amp;#x27;s consent, and placing the burden on them to reject it. &lt;i&gt;That is the problem.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Without a clear verbal confirmation of consent, or an explicit proactive action, you &lt;i&gt;cannot know&lt;/i&gt; if your partner is participating willingly. Failure to reject is not the same thing as consent, and no adult should have difficulty understanding the distinction.&lt;p&gt;If you follow this advice, you &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; rape people while believing that they are just shy.&lt;p&gt;And for what? To avoid the embarrassment of saying, &amp;quot;So do you wanna fuck?&amp;quot; How old are you?&lt;p&gt;Or are you worried that if you ask a woman &amp;quot;So do you wanna fuck?&amp;quot;, she might say no? Do I even need to explain what&amp;#x27;s wrong with that?</text></item><item><author>angersock</author><text>Have some context:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;pastebin.com&amp;#x2F;zwHYzCZe&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;pastebin.com&amp;#x2F;zwHYzCZe&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;p&gt;A HNer who is ashamed of the lack of reading comprehension of this community right now.</text></item><item><author>ebbv</author><text>Dear fellow HN dwellers,&lt;p&gt;If you read the writings of the Guide&amp;#x27;s author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for &amp;quot;taking the first step.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman&amp;#x27;s hand on it in order to &amp;quot;make a move.&amp;quot; There&amp;#x27;s literally hundreds of other things that aren&amp;#x27;t sexual assault that you could do before resorting to that.&lt;p&gt;If you believe that&amp;#x27;s a reasonable &amp;quot;move&amp;quot; to make, then you not only have no imagination, but your judgment of what&amp;#x27;s acceptable behavior is way, way off. It doesn&amp;#x27;t matter if this is a woman who you&amp;#x27;re behind closed doors with for the first time, that&amp;#x27;s not a normal, acceptable &amp;quot;move&amp;quot;. That kind of thing is for people already in an established, ongoing relationship with a solid foundation of consent.&lt;p&gt;Without that consent, it is assault.&lt;p&gt;I strongly urge all of you who &amp;quot;do not see the problem&amp;quot; with the author&amp;#x27;s writings to do more research into exactly what consent is, and what women (as a whole, obviously it varies from individual to individual) see as acceptable, expected behavior.&lt;p&gt;If women are loudly saying &amp;quot;This is assault.&amp;quot;, you need to take them at their word, because it is their judgment, it is their &lt;i&gt;consent&lt;/i&gt; that matters. Not yours.&lt;p&gt;Sincerely,&lt;p&gt;A married, 34 year old HNer who is ashamed of this community right now.&lt;p&gt;EDIT:&lt;p&gt;I thought this was obvious but &lt;i&gt;I have already read all the comments in this thread and all the &amp;quot;context&amp;quot; the excusers are providing.&lt;/i&gt; If you think pointing me to that again is refuting my points, then you didn&amp;#x27;t understand what I wrote.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Samuel_Michon</author><text>When you’ve gone out on several dates, you’ve kissed, she’s invited you to her home, and you’re now sitting on the couch with her, more often than not, the girl will expect the guy to take the initiative. By that time, asking her if you can touch her is a major downer for her. You’re expected to try something. If she didn’t want to fool around, you wouldn’t be there.&lt;p&gt;That’s the context of the quotes, and in the book, it is prefaced by an instruction to stop immediately if she indicates you to do so.</text></comment>