<story><title>The Coronavirus Is Here Forever</title><url>https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>hackersword</author><text>Have you looked at the actual report and not the anti-vax site summation of the report?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;. The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not sure how 21% lower is considered &amp;quot;not statistically significant&amp;quot;, in trying to suppress the spread, ANYTHING &amp;gt; 0% is helpful. Full stop.&lt;p&gt;Other stand out qualifiers from same report&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;This finding might be attributed to higher effectiveness of masks among adults, who are at higher risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection but might also result from differences in mask-wearing behavior among students in schools with optional requirements. Mask use requirements were limited in this sample;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; * First, many COVID-19 cases were self-reported by staff members and parents or guardians, and prevention strategies reported by administrators or nurses might not reflect day-to-day activities or represent all school classrooms, and *did not include an assessment of compliance* (e.g., mask use).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;* Second, the study had limited power to detect lower incidence for potentially effective, but less frequently implemented strategies, such as air filtration and purification systems; only 16 schools reported implementing this ventilation improvement.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; * Third, the response rate was low (11.6%), and some participating schools had missing information about ventilation improvements. However, incidence per 500 students was similar between participating (3.08 cases) and nonparticipating (2.90 cases) schools, suggesting any systematic bias might be low.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;* Finally, the data from this cross-sectional study cannot be used to infer causal 
relationships.&lt;p&gt;Basically was relying on self reporting.  If a student contracted and was asymptomatic, not shown here, etc.</text></item><item><author>rayiner</author><text>&amp;gt; It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools.&lt;p&gt;It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nymag.com&amp;#x2F;intelligencer&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;08&amp;#x2F;the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nymag.com&amp;#x2F;intelligencer&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;08&amp;#x2F;the-science-of-maski...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a notable, yet mostly ignored, large-scale study of COVID transmission in American schools… Distancing, hybrid models, classroom barriers, HEPA filters, and, most notably, requiring student masking were each found to not have a statistically significant benefit. In other words, these measures could not be said to be effective.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; In the realm of science and public-health policy outside the U.S., the implications of these particular findings are not exactly controversial. Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms.</text></item><item><author>adrr</author><text>People aren’t scared up.  Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries.&lt;p&gt;Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12.  With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others.  Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit.  Get 3 at the same time and it’s life threatening.  Two at the same time isn’t uncommon before covid.  Now my pediatrician says 3 is happening and it’s a kid killer. It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools.</text></item><item><author>h3cate</author><text>Unpopular opinion but as countries get majority vaccinated they have to learn to not be as scared of it.</text></item><item><author>rossdavidh</author><text>Good article, but doesn&amp;#x27;t mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs.  We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19.  It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it.&lt;p&gt;Of diseases that get as widespread as this, with animal reservoirs, I don&amp;#x27;t believe there is any case of eliminating it.  But, like vaccines can teach the immune system how to respond more intelligently (and less self-destructively) to covid-19, hopefully society can learn to respond more intelligently, and less self-destructively, to the fact that it&amp;#x27;s always in circulation.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>traek</author><text>&amp;gt; I&amp;#x27;m not sure how 21% lower is considered &amp;quot;not statistically significant&amp;quot;, in trying to suppress the spread, ANYTHING &amp;gt; 0% is helpful. Full stop.&lt;p&gt;Statistical significance has a specific meaning in the context of hypothesis testing. It is a measure of likelihood that the observed result occurred due to a real difference between groups (rather than random chance).</text></comment>
<story><title>The Coronavirus Is Here Forever</title><url>https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/how-we-live-coronavirus-forever/619783/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>hackersword</author><text>Have you looked at the actual report and not the anti-vax site summation of the report?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;. The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not sure how 21% lower is considered &amp;quot;not statistically significant&amp;quot;, in trying to suppress the spread, ANYTHING &amp;gt; 0% is helpful. Full stop.&lt;p&gt;Other stand out qualifiers from same report&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;This finding might be attributed to higher effectiveness of masks among adults, who are at higher risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection but might also result from differences in mask-wearing behavior among students in schools with optional requirements. Mask use requirements were limited in this sample;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; * First, many COVID-19 cases were self-reported by staff members and parents or guardians, and prevention strategies reported by administrators or nurses might not reflect day-to-day activities or represent all school classrooms, and *did not include an assessment of compliance* (e.g., mask use).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;* Second, the study had limited power to detect lower incidence for potentially effective, but less frequently implemented strategies, such as air filtration and purification systems; only 16 schools reported implementing this ventilation improvement.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; * Third, the response rate was low (11.6%), and some participating schools had missing information about ventilation improvements. However, incidence per 500 students was similar between participating (3.08 cases) and nonparticipating (2.90 cases) schools, suggesting any systematic bias might be low.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;* Finally, the data from this cross-sectional study cannot be used to infer causal 
relationships.&lt;p&gt;Basically was relying on self reporting.  If a student contracted and was asymptomatic, not shown here, etc.</text></item><item><author>rayiner</author><text>&amp;gt; It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools.&lt;p&gt;It really shouldn’t if you’re an educated person who is following what scientific authorities are saying. The science here is still uncertain, but leaning towards masks for kids in schools not being worth it. See: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nymag.com&amp;#x2F;intelligencer&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;08&amp;#x2F;the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nymag.com&amp;#x2F;intelligencer&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;08&amp;#x2F;the-science-of-maski...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; At the end of May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a notable, yet mostly ignored, large-scale study of COVID transmission in American schools… Distancing, hybrid models, classroom barriers, HEPA filters, and, most notably, requiring student masking were each found to not have a statistically significant benefit. In other words, these measures could not be said to be effective.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; In the realm of science and public-health policy outside the U.S., the implications of these particular findings are not exactly controversial. Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms.</text></item><item><author>adrr</author><text>People aren’t scared up.  Concern is around ICU usage and that elective surgery in hot areas are put on hold which include critical cancer removal surgeries.&lt;p&gt;Also we have a large group of unvaccinated group which are under kids under 12.  With life going back to normal, the standard diseases are back like RSV, paraflu and others.  Get two at the same time and it’s a emergency room visit.  Get 3 at the same time and it’s life threatening.  Two at the same time isn’t uncommon before covid.  Now my pediatrician says 3 is happening and it’s a kid killer. It boggles my mind why there is pushback on mandating kids to wear masks in schools.</text></item><item><author>h3cate</author><text>Unpopular opinion but as countries get majority vaccinated they have to learn to not be as scared of it.</text></item><item><author>rossdavidh</author><text>Good article, but doesn&amp;#x27;t mention the other reason that covid-19 is never going completely away: animal reservoirs.  We know that dogs, cats, hamsters, guinea pigs, mink, white-tailed deer, a gorilla, and a tiger have been found to have been infected with covid-19.  It is implausible that it will ever cease to have an animal reservoir, especially given the finding in Canada of 30% of white-tailed deer having it.&lt;p&gt;Of diseases that get as widespread as this, with animal reservoirs, I don&amp;#x27;t believe there is any case of eliminating it.  But, like vaccines can teach the immune system how to respond more intelligently (and less self-destructively) to covid-19, hopefully society can learn to respond more intelligently, and less self-destructively, to the fact that it&amp;#x27;s always in circulation.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>timr</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;did not include an assessment of compliance&lt;/i&gt; (e.g., mask use).&lt;p&gt;This is not a rebuttal.&lt;p&gt;If you establish a policy, and people &lt;i&gt;do not follow the policy&lt;/i&gt;, that&amp;#x27;s on you, not on the people. You don&amp;#x27;t get to compare your intervention against an ideal world and claim that &amp;quot;it would have worked, if only for those darned humans!&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Basically was relying on self reporting. If a student contracted and was asymptomatic, not shown here, etc.&lt;p&gt;A great many of the pro-mask papers in 2020 that claimed to &amp;quot;prove&amp;quot; that masks work started from self-reported data (the infamous &amp;quot;hairdressers&amp;quot; CDC report comes to mind...if a customer was asymptomatic, they were ignored; there was no control, so it&amp;#x27;s impossible to know what would have happened otherwise; etc.) The standards for &amp;quot;proof&amp;quot; across the pandemic have been dismally low, and tribalism and politics have supplanted science.&lt;p&gt;The difference here is that we actually have examples from across the globe where kids &lt;i&gt;weren&amp;#x27;t&lt;/i&gt; masked in schools, and no matter how you look at it, it doesn&amp;#x27;t seem to make much of a difference. If we&amp;#x27;re going to be skeptical (we should!) let&amp;#x27;s be skeptical of &lt;i&gt;every claim&lt;/i&gt;, and demand proof of effectiveness for our medical interventions before imposing them across all of human society.</text></comment>