<story><title>Support Grows for a Seattle to Vancouver Bullet Train</title><url>https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/support-grows-seattle-vancouver-bullet-train-feasability-study</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>X86BSD</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m a big fan of rail. I wish we had a bullet train going from E to W coast through Kansas City. I would happily pay more taxes for it.&lt;p&gt;The thing for me is ive never understood why the cost per mile is so freaking outrageously stupidly full retard high for rail. Road doesn&amp;#x27;t cost nearly as much.&lt;p&gt;Is it the material? Labor? There isn&amp;#x27;t much material per mile. Why is it so high per mile? Who has done extensive looking into this and can explain it?</text></item><item><author>JumpCrisscross</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;it would cost between $125 million to $1 billion per mile to build the Seattle to Vancouver line&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;One of the problems with the American rail debate is you have people who like rail and people who like low taxes. The two don&amp;#x27;t overlap. Thus, the former sees any opportunity to lay rail as an opportunity to hose taxpayers.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;China’s high speed rail with a maximum speed of 350 km&amp;#x2F;h has a typical infrastructure unit cost of about $17-21m per km, with a high ratio of viaducts and tunnels, as compared with $ 25-39 [million U.S. dollars] per km in Europe and as high as $ 56 [million U.S. dollars] per km currently estimated in California&amp;quot; [1]. The Seattle&amp;#x2F;Washington per-mile costs above translate to $78 to $625 million dollars per kilometre.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.worldbank.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;press-release&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;07&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;cost-of-high-speed-rail-in-china-one-third-lower-than-in-other-countries&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.worldbank.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;press-release&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;07&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;co...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;2014&lt;/i&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>JumpCrisscross</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;I&amp;#x27;m a big fan of rail. I wish we had a bullet train going from E to W coast through Kansas City. I would happily pay more taxes for it.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;You&amp;#x27;re in the &amp;quot;people who like rail&amp;quot; camp. So are many of my friends. (I&amp;#x27;m the lonely S.O.B. in both.)&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;Why is [our cost] so high per mile?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;On why rail is so much more expensive here, we don&amp;#x27;t know [1]. &amp;quot;Many of the world&amp;#x27;s most expensive projects are in the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand, which, like the United States, have common-law systems,&amp;quot; [2] so it might be that right-of-way costs dominate.&lt;p&gt;New York&amp;#x27;s MTA costs $4.11 per ride to operate [3]. The analogs for London and Paris are $2.61 and $1.93, respectively [2]. The cost difference appears to be explained by unnecessarily higher staffing levels in New York. So it might be that public-sector union and well-paid contractor costs dominate.&lt;p&gt;Measuring these things is hard, perhaps intentionally so.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.realclearpolicy.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;2015&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;high_costs_may_explain_crumbling_support_for_us_infrastructure_1249.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.realclearpolicy.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;2015&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;high_costs_ma...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;view&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2016-04-08&amp;#x2F;why-u-s-infrastructure-costs-so-much&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;view&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2016-04-08&amp;#x2F;why-u-s-i...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[3] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.moodys.com&amp;#x2F;research&amp;#x2F;Moodys-New-Yorks-MTA-debt-profile-governmental-support-distinguish-it--PR_345455&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.moodys.com&amp;#x2F;research&amp;#x2F;Moodys-New-Yorks-MTA-debt-pr...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>Support Grows for a Seattle to Vancouver Bullet Train</title><url>https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/support-grows-seattle-vancouver-bullet-train-feasability-study</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>X86BSD</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m a big fan of rail. I wish we had a bullet train going from E to W coast through Kansas City. I would happily pay more taxes for it.&lt;p&gt;The thing for me is ive never understood why the cost per mile is so freaking outrageously stupidly full retard high for rail. Road doesn&amp;#x27;t cost nearly as much.&lt;p&gt;Is it the material? Labor? There isn&amp;#x27;t much material per mile. Why is it so high per mile? Who has done extensive looking into this and can explain it?</text></item><item><author>JumpCrisscross</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;it would cost between $125 million to $1 billion per mile to build the Seattle to Vancouver line&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;One of the problems with the American rail debate is you have people who like rail and people who like low taxes. The two don&amp;#x27;t overlap. Thus, the former sees any opportunity to lay rail as an opportunity to hose taxpayers.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;China’s high speed rail with a maximum speed of 350 km&amp;#x2F;h has a typical infrastructure unit cost of about $17-21m per km, with a high ratio of viaducts and tunnels, as compared with $ 25-39 [million U.S. dollars] per km in Europe and as high as $ 56 [million U.S. dollars] per km currently estimated in California&amp;quot; [1]. The Seattle&amp;#x2F;Washington per-mile costs above translate to $78 to $625 million dollars per kilometre.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.worldbank.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;press-release&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;07&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;cost-of-high-speed-rail-in-china-one-third-lower-than-in-other-countries&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.worldbank.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;press-release&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;07&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;co...&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;2014&lt;/i&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rpeden</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m not an expert, but I&amp;#x27;ve looked into this in the past when I was curious about it.&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#x27;s quite a bit of working that goes into preparing and grading the land. There&amp;#x27;s also the added expense of building bridges and tunnels - with the speed a bullet train is travelling at, you want to avoid at-grade level crossings where road vehicles could get into the train&amp;#x27;s path. You also probably want side barriers to prevent cows and other large animals from wandering onto the tracks. This means you&amp;#x27;ll also need game tunnels or bridges to enable animals to get cross under or over the tracks, especially in wilderness areas. The Wikipedia article about TGV track construction [1] provides some helpful information[1].&lt;p&gt;Acquiring the land to build the track might also be expensive. Although governments have some power to expropriate land, there&amp;#x27;s often (usually?) significant cost involved.&lt;p&gt;[1]&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;TGV_track_construction#Preparing_the_trackbed&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;TGV_track_construction#Prepari...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>