<story><title>Off the Grid, but Still Online</title><url>http://motherboard.vice.com/read/off-the-grid-but-still-online</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Retric</author><text>FedEx works because people near you also need packages.  The more packages they ship the more efficient they become.&lt;p&gt;Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today.  Sure, it&amp;#x27;s cheaper for them to drop off 10 packages at the same apartment complex, but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.</text></item><item><author>Zach_the_Lizard</author><text>&amp;gt;I suspect you could scale the &amp;#x27;off grid&amp;#x27; lifestyle to around 1&amp;#x2F;2 the US population without many issues.&lt;p&gt;As you spread out the population, the cost of FedEx deliveries is going to grow. Now you can drop off goods in a city via a highly efficient train, have that switched to a truck, and have it delivered to the end customer.&lt;p&gt;If everyone is off the grid in the wilderness, that train becomes a lot less useful to deliver goods. Now you&amp;#x27;ve got to reach a larger area to serve the same number of people.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Web + Fedex means a lot of jobs can be done remotely&lt;p&gt;A lot of jobs &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; be done remotely, but that doesn&amp;#x27;t mean they could be done remotely without cost. Many people are less efficient when working remotely. I find communication to be much harder when remote than when in person, especially as issues get more complex.</text></item><item><author>Retric</author><text>I suspect you could scale the &amp;#x27;off grid&amp;#x27; lifestyle to around 1&amp;#x2F;2 the US population without many issues.  Web + FedEx means a lot of jobs can be done remotely.  Consider plenty of teachers work remotely even if most people think of it as a face to face job.  Even some doctors have started to work remotely let alone the classic 9&amp;#x2F;5 office worker.&lt;p&gt;Sure, city&amp;#x27;s are a far more efficient use of land and energy, but at least in the US we still have a lot of open space.&lt;p&gt;PS: My only gripe is people think of this as a &amp;#x27;green&amp;#x27; lifestyle.  Generally, living in a city high-rise and using public transit is far better for the environment.</text></item><item><author>OneOneOneOne</author><text>Right on.  When considering lifestyle choices I ask myself how many people could live the same way.  If it turns out to be a small minority before collapse, I reject it as a path for myself.  To me off grid lifestyle seems a retreat from the goods of society without a commensurate benefit to self and others.  As an art movement or experiment I say fine.</text></item><item><author>ecobiker</author><text>(Disclaimer: Slightly off-topic. Also, it&amp;#x27;s not my intention to belittle their lifestyle. I hope I don&amp;#x27;t come across that way.)&lt;p&gt;Some of the things they need even in this disconnected lifestyle - like the mobile home, laptops, books, solar panels, batteries and even the slippers have to be made by someone doing a 9-5 job somewhere. The idea of civilization to me is to take advantage of these specialists who are really good at doing or manufacturing some of the things I need and in turn I become a specialist in something (probably one thing) which I contribute back to the society - it&amp;#x27;s a barter. That I don&amp;#x27;t have to do all the things I need to do to survive, seems efficient and effective. Also, not all of the jobs are going to be able to afford this &amp;quot;luxury&amp;quot;.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Zach_the_Lizard</author><text>&amp;gt;Fedex works because people near you also need packages.&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s exactly my point. The more people who need packages around you, the less it costs to deliver a package specifically to you. Going off the grid in remote corners sounds great, but part of the reason we moved to cities is because sharing infrastructure costs makes things more efficient.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today.&lt;p&gt;The US&amp;#x27;s population density is 100 people &amp;#x2F; square mile, but that doesn&amp;#x27;t tell you the full story. We don&amp;#x27;t live all over America, we are clustered into cities and towns, mostly on the coasts. There&amp;#x27;s a lot of desert and Alaskan wilderness with no one around bringing down the average. NYC alone is ~6% of the US population. The Northeast megalopolis is ~17% on ~2% of the land.</text></comment>
<story><title>Off the Grid, but Still Online</title><url>http://motherboard.vice.com/read/off-the-grid-but-still-online</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Retric</author><text>FedEx works because people near you also need packages.  The more packages they ship the more efficient they become.&lt;p&gt;Also, the US population density is ~100 people per square mile so chances are good someone within 1 mile of you also needs a package today.  Sure, it&amp;#x27;s cheaper for them to drop off 10 packages at the same apartment complex, but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.</text></item><item><author>Zach_the_Lizard</author><text>&amp;gt;I suspect you could scale the &amp;#x27;off grid&amp;#x27; lifestyle to around 1&amp;#x2F;2 the US population without many issues.&lt;p&gt;As you spread out the population, the cost of FedEx deliveries is going to grow. Now you can drop off goods in a city via a highly efficient train, have that switched to a truck, and have it delivered to the end customer.&lt;p&gt;If everyone is off the grid in the wilderness, that train becomes a lot less useful to deliver goods. Now you&amp;#x27;ve got to reach a larger area to serve the same number of people.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Web + Fedex means a lot of jobs can be done remotely&lt;p&gt;A lot of jobs &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; be done remotely, but that doesn&amp;#x27;t mean they could be done remotely without cost. Many people are less efficient when working remotely. I find communication to be much harder when remote than when in person, especially as issues get more complex.</text></item><item><author>Retric</author><text>I suspect you could scale the &amp;#x27;off grid&amp;#x27; lifestyle to around 1&amp;#x2F;2 the US population without many issues.  Web + FedEx means a lot of jobs can be done remotely.  Consider plenty of teachers work remotely even if most people think of it as a face to face job.  Even some doctors have started to work remotely let alone the classic 9&amp;#x2F;5 office worker.&lt;p&gt;Sure, city&amp;#x27;s are a far more efficient use of land and energy, but at least in the US we still have a lot of open space.&lt;p&gt;PS: My only gripe is people think of this as a &amp;#x27;green&amp;#x27; lifestyle.  Generally, living in a city high-rise and using public transit is far better for the environment.</text></item><item><author>OneOneOneOne</author><text>Right on.  When considering lifestyle choices I ask myself how many people could live the same way.  If it turns out to be a small minority before collapse, I reject it as a path for myself.  To me off grid lifestyle seems a retreat from the goods of society without a commensurate benefit to self and others.  As an art movement or experiment I say fine.</text></item><item><author>ecobiker</author><text>(Disclaimer: Slightly off-topic. Also, it&amp;#x27;s not my intention to belittle their lifestyle. I hope I don&amp;#x27;t come across that way.)&lt;p&gt;Some of the things they need even in this disconnected lifestyle - like the mobile home, laptops, books, solar panels, batteries and even the slippers have to be made by someone doing a 9-5 job somewhere. The idea of civilization to me is to take advantage of these specialists who are really good at doing or manufacturing some of the things I need and in turn I become a specialist in something (probably one thing) which I contribute back to the society - it&amp;#x27;s a barter. That I don&amp;#x27;t have to do all the things I need to do to survive, seems efficient and effective. Also, not all of the jobs are going to be able to afford this &amp;quot;luxury&amp;quot;.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>curun1r</author><text>&amp;gt; but even fairly remote areas can be surprisingly profitable.&lt;p&gt;This is only true because they subcontract these rural deliveries to USPS [1]. Without USPS, who&amp;#x27;s already required to go there anyways to deliver traditional mail, it isn&amp;#x27;t profitable.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.wsj.com&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fedex-ups-1407182247&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.wsj.com&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;u-s-mail-does-the-trick-for-fede...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>