<story><title>Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment systems in Netherlands</title><url>https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commission-for-purchases-made-using-alternative-payment-systems-in-the-netherlands/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ellen364</author><text>&amp;gt; You don&amp;#x27;t (and shouldn&amp;#x27;t) have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to develop for it on anything but Apple&amp;#x27;s terms.&lt;p&gt;Sometimes I wonder what today’s computers would be like if Microsoft had exerted that level of control over DOS and Windows. Forget downloading some random exe you found online, only approved programs can be installed. Would there have been a booming software industry? Would there be so much malware? Would Microsoft have allowed things like the first web browsers?&lt;p&gt;No comment on the merits of operating systems as walled gardens. I just find it fascinating (and difficult) to imagine how things might have been.</text></item><item><author>thegrimmest</author><text>well, the thing is iOS itself isn&amp;#x27;t exactly a separate &amp;quot;thing&amp;quot; from these services. Also it wholly belongs to apple. You don&amp;#x27;t (and shouldn&amp;#x27;t) have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to develop for it on anything but Apple&amp;#x27;s terms.</text></item><item><author>anaisbetts</author><text>Ok, that&amp;#x27;s fine. If I can _choose_ to use Apple&amp;#x27;s services, in exchange for their cut, then that&amp;#x27;s a trade that I can evaluate as a business. Instead if I want to develop for iOS I am _forced_ to use these services, and pay the cost. That&amp;#x27;s the Problem.</text></item><item><author>makecheck</author><text>Apple allows “free apps” that are &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; ad-supported, &lt;i&gt;never giving Apple a dime&lt;/i&gt; (aside from $99&amp;#x2F;year), yet they are consuming infrastructure: hosting pages, downloads, reviewer time, etc.  Why isn’t Apple concerned about any of &lt;i&gt;those&lt;/i&gt; costs?  Simple: they make overwhelmingly most of their App Store money from the handful of developers that offer purchases.  This also leads to perverse outcomes like Apple dragging its feet on scams that make them heaps of money.&lt;p&gt;Developers are literally subsidizing other developers, and it’s not necessarily the richest ones helping the poorest ones.  Someone trying to make money on a $0.99 app is sacrificing more to Apple than Facebook does with their free app.&lt;p&gt;That’s why I find all these percentage and payment discussions weird: &lt;i&gt;income is so insanely distributed&lt;/i&gt; that a lot of this literally does not apply to more than 80% of the stuff on the store.  There are fundamental issues that need to be resolved too.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>greiskul</author><text>I think a good comparison is to look at gaming. Most consoles have been walled gardens, ever since Nintendo revitalized the market. You end up with centralized power in the hand of a few big companies.&lt;p&gt;While in pc gaming, small indie studios can create entire new genres, like Factorio did, some which go on to grow and become giants themselves, like Minecraft.</text></comment>
<story><title>Apple will charge 27% commission for alternative payment systems in Netherlands</title><url>https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commission-for-purchases-made-using-alternative-payment-systems-in-the-netherlands/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ellen364</author><text>&amp;gt; You don&amp;#x27;t (and shouldn&amp;#x27;t) have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to develop for it on anything but Apple&amp;#x27;s terms.&lt;p&gt;Sometimes I wonder what today’s computers would be like if Microsoft had exerted that level of control over DOS and Windows. Forget downloading some random exe you found online, only approved programs can be installed. Would there have been a booming software industry? Would there be so much malware? Would Microsoft have allowed things like the first web browsers?&lt;p&gt;No comment on the merits of operating systems as walled gardens. I just find it fascinating (and difficult) to imagine how things might have been.</text></item><item><author>thegrimmest</author><text>well, the thing is iOS itself isn&amp;#x27;t exactly a separate &amp;quot;thing&amp;quot; from these services. Also it wholly belongs to apple. You don&amp;#x27;t (and shouldn&amp;#x27;t) have a &amp;quot;right&amp;quot; to develop for it on anything but Apple&amp;#x27;s terms.</text></item><item><author>anaisbetts</author><text>Ok, that&amp;#x27;s fine. If I can _choose_ to use Apple&amp;#x27;s services, in exchange for their cut, then that&amp;#x27;s a trade that I can evaluate as a business. Instead if I want to develop for iOS I am _forced_ to use these services, and pay the cost. That&amp;#x27;s the Problem.</text></item><item><author>makecheck</author><text>Apple allows “free apps” that are &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; ad-supported, &lt;i&gt;never giving Apple a dime&lt;/i&gt; (aside from $99&amp;#x2F;year), yet they are consuming infrastructure: hosting pages, downloads, reviewer time, etc.  Why isn’t Apple concerned about any of &lt;i&gt;those&lt;/i&gt; costs?  Simple: they make overwhelmingly most of their App Store money from the handful of developers that offer purchases.  This also leads to perverse outcomes like Apple dragging its feet on scams that make them heaps of money.&lt;p&gt;Developers are literally subsidizing other developers, and it’s not necessarily the richest ones helping the poorest ones.  Someone trying to make money on a $0.99 app is sacrificing more to Apple than Facebook does with their free app.&lt;p&gt;That’s why I find all these percentage and payment discussions weird: &lt;i&gt;income is so insanely distributed&lt;/i&gt; that a lot of this literally does not apply to more than 80% of the stuff on the store.  There are fundamental issues that need to be resolved too.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>thegrimmest</author><text>I just think we should allow both options to compete and flourish. As you point out, each has their merits. If users end up preferring walled gardens and appliance-style devices, then shouldn&amp;#x27;t that be what they get?</text></comment>