<story><title>If Sociologists Had as Much Influence as Economists</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/upshot/what-if-sociologists-had-as-much-influence-as-economists.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jahaja</author><text>I think you&amp;#x27;re giving economics the benefit of the doubt while having a critical eye towards sociology when they&amp;#x27;re not much different in regards to objectivity and being &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; sciences. In fact I&amp;#x27;m not sure sociology would still have its credibility intact if it were to have as many failures as economics have had just the latest 20 years or so. Somehow economics manages this, which leads me to the next point.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m surprised that you&amp;#x27;re speaking with such certainty without mentioning the rather powerful relationship between economics and finance in a classical &amp;quot;follow the money&amp;quot; trail of thought.</text></item><item><author>trendia</author><text>Rather than ask the question, &amp;quot;What if sociologists had influence?&amp;quot;, the author should ask, &amp;quot;What does sociology need to change as a discipline in order to earn influence?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;The answer would be rigor. A huge problem with sociology is the dependence on the story. Unfortunately, since the sociologist is often a human with their own biases, they are going to see what they want to see.&lt;p&gt;For example, I purchased the Kindle version of the book the author recommends (&amp;quot;Coming Up Short&amp;quot;). I turned to the appendix, where the author describes her research methodology. And sure enough, the research involves open-ended questions (&amp;quot;Walk me through a typical day at work.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Is there a time you lost a job? Could you describe it?&amp;quot;) that could lead the interviewee to respond in any way they want.&lt;p&gt;There are &lt;i&gt;many&lt;/i&gt; problems with this, such as : 1) the interviewee may inadvertently invent convenient narratives that provide comfort but aren&amp;#x27;t accurate, 2) the interviewer may mis-interpret the answers, etc.&lt;p&gt;How are we supposed to develop policy off of this? Sure, it&amp;#x27;s a great starting point for &lt;i&gt;starting&lt;/i&gt; research, but the narrative- or story-based approach should never be the &lt;i&gt;conclusion&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;This is why economics is so much more trusted. Although economics has flaws, and the study of econometrics can sometimes lead to incorrect conclusions, it at least uses objective data and metrics, which are less susceptible to error, providing a much more grounded approach to policy decisions.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>1337biz</author><text>&amp;gt; In fact I&amp;#x27;m not sure sociology would still have its credibility intact if it were to have as many failures as economics have had just the latest 20 years or so.&lt;p&gt;We are here back at the fundamental mathification problem. Economists have understood that as long as their formulas look scientific enough, they can influence with their results policy makers et al.. Sociology rarely present their research in terms of the broad and universal truth as the economists do. So while Economists&amp;#x27; results look rigorous on paper, reality still proves it often wrong.</text></comment>
<story><title>If Sociologists Had as Much Influence as Economists</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/upshot/what-if-sociologists-had-as-much-influence-as-economists.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jahaja</author><text>I think you&amp;#x27;re giving economics the benefit of the doubt while having a critical eye towards sociology when they&amp;#x27;re not much different in regards to objectivity and being &amp;quot;soft&amp;quot; sciences. In fact I&amp;#x27;m not sure sociology would still have its credibility intact if it were to have as many failures as economics have had just the latest 20 years or so. Somehow economics manages this, which leads me to the next point.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m surprised that you&amp;#x27;re speaking with such certainty without mentioning the rather powerful relationship between economics and finance in a classical &amp;quot;follow the money&amp;quot; trail of thought.</text></item><item><author>trendia</author><text>Rather than ask the question, &amp;quot;What if sociologists had influence?&amp;quot;, the author should ask, &amp;quot;What does sociology need to change as a discipline in order to earn influence?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;The answer would be rigor. A huge problem with sociology is the dependence on the story. Unfortunately, since the sociologist is often a human with their own biases, they are going to see what they want to see.&lt;p&gt;For example, I purchased the Kindle version of the book the author recommends (&amp;quot;Coming Up Short&amp;quot;). I turned to the appendix, where the author describes her research methodology. And sure enough, the research involves open-ended questions (&amp;quot;Walk me through a typical day at work.&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Is there a time you lost a job? Could you describe it?&amp;quot;) that could lead the interviewee to respond in any way they want.&lt;p&gt;There are &lt;i&gt;many&lt;/i&gt; problems with this, such as : 1) the interviewee may inadvertently invent convenient narratives that provide comfort but aren&amp;#x27;t accurate, 2) the interviewer may mis-interpret the answers, etc.&lt;p&gt;How are we supposed to develop policy off of this? Sure, it&amp;#x27;s a great starting point for &lt;i&gt;starting&lt;/i&gt; research, but the narrative- or story-based approach should never be the &lt;i&gt;conclusion&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;This is why economics is so much more trusted. Although economics has flaws, and the study of econometrics can sometimes lead to incorrect conclusions, it at least uses objective data and metrics, which are less susceptible to error, providing a much more grounded approach to policy decisions.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>trendia</author><text>&amp;gt; relationship between economics and finance in a classical &amp;quot;follow the money&amp;quot; trail of thought.&lt;p&gt;What specifically are you claiming?</text></comment>