<story><title>Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes</title><url>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>yummyfajitas</author><text>&lt;i&gt;... but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so)...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;In the US we earn 30% more money than Finland (adjusted for cost of living, which is quite high in Finland), so we can just pay for these things with savings if we want to. Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less to us than money.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>jan_g</author><text>It&apos;s more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries&apos; social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten &apos;bonuses&apos;, free health care for every child and similar.&lt;p&gt;So this definitely deserves a lot of attention as it makes young parents&apos; lives quite easier. And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it.</text></item><item><author>belorn</author><text>&amp;#62; It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer.&lt;p&gt;While its technically true, its really misrepresent it. Every time i hear that argument it sounds like a kid holding one part of a singular share of Microsoft stock, proclaiming to the world that he has now &quot;funded Microsoft!&quot; because of his $10 investment.&lt;p&gt;Sure, in societies with lower tax, the state would be less likely to be funding a baby box. However, in trade of, society itself tend to then evolve a culture of charities to handle the slack. The US is a good example here, where such a box would likely also exist in some places, but maybe coupled with a bible or a cooperation logo on. People could then argue that such a thing is also &quot;not free&quot;, but provide under advertisement for a religion or brand.&lt;p&gt;So while its technically true that this is a gift paid by tax payers money, that description deserve a lesser attention that we currently are giving it.</text></item><item><author>jan_g</author><text>It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements.&lt;p&gt;Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.</text></item><item><author>ProcessBlue</author><text>Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It&apos;s been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes:&lt;p&gt;- Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby&apos;s and mother&apos;s health.&lt;p&gt;-  About 12 hours of parental training which I found surprisingly useful (containing none of the Lamaze class stereotypes I had been expecting). Also, our group of people contained an absolutely adorable teenage couple, everybody else was in their late twenties to mid thirties.&lt;p&gt;- The whole &quot;actual business&quot;. Now this bit we did have to pay for, about $80 per day that we stayed in one of the maternity ward&apos;s private rooms with full room service.&lt;p&gt;- First weekly and later monthly post natal checkups (also for the mom) including vaccinations. At two years the schedule switches to annual checkups and starts including dental chaeckups. At some point during the first months a doctor actually visits your home to check up on how you are dealing with the whole situation. If there are clear indicators of problems (e.g. alcoholism) the doc can point you in the direction for help.&lt;p&gt;- You start getting about $150/month from the state for the baby (until it is 18 years old), this is about half of the cost of municpal daycare. In addition to this you get financial support during (m|p)aternity leave (the amount is actually scaled based on your salary). Maternity leave is about 100 days, paternity leave is about 50 days and on top of that you are entitled to 160 days of parental leave (either mom or dad can take this). Your place of employment can get state compensation if they decide to pay you a full salaray during your leave. Then there is a general child care leave than can extend to three years, it gets nitty gritty with the bureaucracy of compensations but effectively it is possible to take care of your kid for the first three years and still have your old job back when you&apos;re done. In our circle of friends there are at least a couple of &quot;career women&quot; who have checked out for ~5 years to have two kids and successfully gotten back into the game.&lt;p&gt;So yeah, the box is nice but it is only the icing on the fabulous cake that is having a baby in Finland :-).</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rlpb</author><text>&amp;#62; Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less to us than money.&lt;p&gt;Or you could be suffering from a Tragedy of the Commons. Your American viewpoint may be preventing you all from pooling your money together and saving overall. Instead you all have to act as individuals, and in this case it is in your individual best interests to not spend the money, since you only get the saving if you all act together.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes</title><url>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22751415</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>yummyfajitas</author><text>&lt;i&gt;... but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so)...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;In the US we earn 30% more money than Finland (adjusted for cost of living, which is quite high in Finland), so we can just pay for these things with savings if we want to. Most of us choose not to, suggesting these benefits are worth less to us than money.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>jan_g</author><text>It&apos;s more than a baby box. I do not know how familiar you are with some European countries&apos; social system, but young parents are usually given quite a few months of vacation time and salary from the state, a sort of children allowance until a child is 18 years old (100EUR or so), tax deductions for every child until a child is 18 years old, kindergarten &apos;bonuses&apos;, free health care for every child and similar.&lt;p&gt;So this definitely deserves a lot of attention as it makes young parents&apos; lives quite easier. And I am not arguing against it, just that in the end someone has to pay for it.</text></item><item><author>belorn</author><text>&amp;#62; It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer.&lt;p&gt;While its technically true, its really misrepresent it. Every time i hear that argument it sounds like a kid holding one part of a singular share of Microsoft stock, proclaiming to the world that he has now &quot;funded Microsoft!&quot; because of his $10 investment.&lt;p&gt;Sure, in societies with lower tax, the state would be less likely to be funding a baby box. However, in trade of, society itself tend to then evolve a culture of charities to handle the slack. The US is a good example here, where such a box would likely also exist in some places, but maybe coupled with a bible or a cooperation logo on. People could then argue that such a thing is also &quot;not free&quot;, but provide under advertisement for a religion or brand.&lt;p&gt;So while its technically true that this is a gift paid by tax payers money, that description deserve a lesser attention that we currently are giving it.</text></item><item><author>jan_g</author><text>It is worth noting that all this is not free, but paid for by the tax payer. Many European countries have similar arrangements.&lt;p&gt;Personally, I think all this is money well spent by the governments as it gives nice financial boost to young parents and a sense that someone/something cares about them and their baby.</text></item><item><author>ProcessBlue</author><text>Lovely article. However, I must say that the box is only the tip of the iceberg. It&apos;s been almost four years since we went through the gauntlet so my memory may be a bit fuzzy but if I remember correctly the FREE tier of forming babby in Finland includes:&lt;p&gt;- Initially monthly (increaing to weekly) pre-natal checkups that include bloodwork, metabolism tests, ultrasounds and any treatments necessary to ensure the baby&apos;s and mother&apos;s health.&lt;p&gt;-  About 12 hours of parental training which I found surprisingly useful (containing none of the Lamaze class stereotypes I had been expecting). Also, our group of people contained an absolutely adorable teenage couple, everybody else was in their late twenties to mid thirties.&lt;p&gt;- The whole &quot;actual business&quot;. Now this bit we did have to pay for, about $80 per day that we stayed in one of the maternity ward&apos;s private rooms with full room service.&lt;p&gt;- First weekly and later monthly post natal checkups (also for the mom) including vaccinations. At two years the schedule switches to annual checkups and starts including dental chaeckups. At some point during the first months a doctor actually visits your home to check up on how you are dealing with the whole situation. If there are clear indicators of problems (e.g. alcoholism) the doc can point you in the direction for help.&lt;p&gt;- You start getting about $150/month from the state for the baby (until it is 18 years old), this is about half of the cost of municpal daycare. In addition to this you get financial support during (m|p)aternity leave (the amount is actually scaled based on your salary). Maternity leave is about 100 days, paternity leave is about 50 days and on top of that you are entitled to 160 days of parental leave (either mom or dad can take this). Your place of employment can get state compensation if they decide to pay you a full salaray during your leave. Then there is a general child care leave than can extend to three years, it gets nitty gritty with the bureaucracy of compensations but effectively it is possible to take care of your kid for the first three years and still have your old job back when you&apos;re done. In our circle of friends there are at least a couple of &quot;career women&quot; who have checked out for ~5 years to have two kids and successfully gotten back into the game.&lt;p&gt;So yeah, the box is nice but it is only the icing on the fabulous cake that is having a baby in Finland :-).</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Nursie</author><text>That&apos;s right kids, Americans &lt;i&gt;choose&lt;/i&gt; never to have any vacation time and spend all their lives in work...&lt;p&gt;Also LOL @ Savings. From what I&apos;ve read only around 55% of Americans have more savings than credit-card debt.</text></comment>