<story><title>Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE</title><url>https://www.npr.org/2019/04/05/710137783/motel-6-to-pay-12-million-after-improperly-giving-guest-lists-to-ice</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>code_duck</author><text>Isn’t it your duty to protect the privacy of your data and your customers regardless of who is requesting data? I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules, e.g. in China, and are praised for it. The concept of resisting government requests for information is well established.&lt;p&gt;If the police called and asked for my customer list, I’d check whether they had that authority and many other issues before turning it over. I think we had an article on here earlier about ‘second order thinking’ that would cover that... getting an invasive request from the government, and fulfilling it regardless of consequences because you want to ‘help’ or consider them to be like Mom and Dad is first order thinking.&lt;p&gt;I’m no expert, but it seems increasingly common to have state laws that oppose or are stricter than federal laws, and you do have to be aware of all laws for your jurisdiction down to the county and city. Especially in any voluntary action, you have to consider whether it violates other laws or duties, and if they weren’t legally compelled to do this t was voluntary.</text></item><item><author>nostromo</author><text>This is... strange.&lt;p&gt;When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it&amp;#x27;s pretty normal for people to provide that help.&lt;p&gt;In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government.  (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.)&lt;p&gt;If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally &lt;i&gt;I do want that&lt;/i&gt;) then we should set that standard in law.  And we should enforce it fairly, not based on the hot political topic of the day.  (How much information does the CIA and FBI vacuum up from Washington telcos in a day in violation of this law, and why isn&amp;#x27;t anyone held to task?  Maybe because they have better lawyers than Motel 6.)&lt;p&gt;Helping the federal government do its job and then getting sued by the state seems like mom getting mad at you for doing what dad asked you to.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>bloudermilk</author><text>&amp;gt; The concept of resisting government requests for information is well established.&lt;p&gt;Well established for whom? For many poor Americans, the thought of resisting a local PD seems impossible, let alone a federal agent who comes knocking. Try to imagine being on your night shift at a rural Motel 6 when a few strange individuals start waving badges, making requests, maybe threatening to escalate things if you don&amp;#x27;t play along. Maybe you would have the courage to stand up to them, but I think a lot of people would fall to the pressure and abide by the request. One big difference is privilege.&lt;p&gt;I believe ICE should be responsible for illegally attaining this information. They should also bear the cost of educating the Motel 6 workforce on their rights to resist requests from law enforcement agencies.</text></comment>
<story><title>Motel 6 to Pay $12M after Improperly Giving Guest Lists to ICE</title><url>https://www.npr.org/2019/04/05/710137783/motel-6-to-pay-12-million-after-improperly-giving-guest-lists-to-ice</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>code_duck</author><text>Isn’t it your duty to protect the privacy of your data and your customers regardless of who is requesting data? I thought companies like Twitter and Google routinely rebuffed requests for information from government agencies and opposed restrictive rules, e.g. in China, and are praised for it. The concept of resisting government requests for information is well established.&lt;p&gt;If the police called and asked for my customer list, I’d check whether they had that authority and many other issues before turning it over. I think we had an article on here earlier about ‘second order thinking’ that would cover that... getting an invasive request from the government, and fulfilling it regardless of consequences because you want to ‘help’ or consider them to be like Mom and Dad is first order thinking.&lt;p&gt;I’m no expert, but it seems increasingly common to have state laws that oppose or are stricter than federal laws, and you do have to be aware of all laws for your jurisdiction down to the county and city. Especially in any voluntary action, you have to consider whether it violates other laws or duties, and if they weren’t legally compelled to do this t was voluntary.</text></item><item><author>nostromo</author><text>This is... strange.&lt;p&gt;When the federal government comes asking for your help, I think it&amp;#x27;s pretty normal for people to provide that help.&lt;p&gt;In a just world, if the government asks for something inappropriately, then the party at fault is the government.  (In other words, Washington should sue ICE, not Motel 6.)&lt;p&gt;If we want companies to require a subpoena to share information with the federal government (and personally &lt;i&gt;I do want that&lt;/i&gt;) then we should set that standard in law.  And we should enforce it fairly, not based on the hot political topic of the day.  (How much information does the CIA and FBI vacuum up from Washington telcos in a day in violation of this law, and why isn&amp;#x27;t anyone held to task?  Maybe because they have better lawyers than Motel 6.)&lt;p&gt;Helping the federal government do its job and then getting sued by the state seems like mom getting mad at you for doing what dad asked you to.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>tyingq</author><text>&lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;Isn’t it your duty to protect the privacy of your data and your customers regardless of who is requesting data?&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;The article says &lt;i&gt;&amp;quot;after several locations gave information on thousands of guests to Immigration and Customs Enforcement without warrants&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sounds like ICE got the info from the night manager or similar.  I can see why a motel night manager might feel like they didn&amp;#x27;t have a choice in the matter.  Motel 6 is still rightly on hook, but ICE knew better than to route the request to Motel 6 HDQ.</text></comment>