<story><title>The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive</title><url>https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988.306.1.pdf</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tombert</author><text>This is why I stopped donating to IA, and I will not donate until they get new leadership.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m a very big supporter of a lot of what IA does, but I feel if I donate, my money is just going to fund more and more legal defenses because Brewster Kahle is being stubborn, and I&amp;#x27;m afraid it&amp;#x27;s going to lead to the entire Archive being shut down.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve mentioned this before, but there are lots of cases where IA will let you download full video games for the switch that are still being actively sold [1].  The same applies to a lot of movies and TV shows, available via torrents no less.&lt;p&gt;Before someone gives me a lecture about data harboring laws and fair use, I know that it is technically on the copyright holder to issue takedown requests for infringing material, but even still, I think they&amp;#x27;d be smart to be a bit proactive about this.  If &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; know that the Internet Archive is an easy place to get pirated material, then I&amp;#x27;m quite confident that their staff does as well. If there&amp;#x27;s even one employee email that implies that they know about pirated content but didn&amp;#x27;t bother taking it down, then I think that&amp;#x27;s grounds for a lawsuit (though I&amp;#x27;m not a lawyer).&lt;p&gt;Much as I respect him for founding IA, I think that Kahle needs to be replaced as a leader.&lt;p&gt;[1] I&amp;#x27;m not going to link it here because I&amp;#x27;m not sure HN&amp;#x27;s policy on potentially legally dubious material, but it is not hard to find.</text></item><item><author>ilamont</author><text>This has been playing out for many years. And it&amp;#x27;s all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive&amp;#x27;s mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States.&lt;p&gt;When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Internet Archive says it would rather talk with writers individually than talk to the NWU or other writers’ organizations. But requests by NWU members to talk to or meet with the Internet Archive have been ignored or rebuffed.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;When the requests to abandon CDL turned into demands, Kahle dug in his heels. When the inevitable lawsuits followed, and IA lost, he insisted that he was still in the right and plowed ahead with appeals.&lt;p&gt;He also opened a new front in the court of public opinion. In his blog posts and interviews with U.S. media, Kahle portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians (see &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-statement&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-st...&lt;/a&gt;). It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;In addition, there has been real collateral damage to the many noble aspects of the Internet Archive. Legal fees and judgements have diverted resources away from the Wayback Machine, the library of public domain works, and other IA programs that provide real value to society. I truly hope the organization can survive.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>orbisvicis</author><text>So the IA should be forked; you can support the fork and people like me Brewster Kahle&amp;#x27;s original.&lt;p&gt;People who frequent libraries think CDL at retail prices is just; others that it is an end-run around publisher&amp;#x27;s rights.&lt;p&gt;But libraries pay so much for their limited-lending copies! Why isn&amp;#x27;t there any support for regional or global libraries? Publishers are like a syndicate but there&amp;#x27;s no opposing union so they run ramshod over the proletariat. Are libraries not good things? Beacons of culture and so forth? The IA clearly can&amp;#x27;t afford to fund CDL at library rates, but can&amp;#x27;t it get funding! Why won&amp;#x27;t the government step in and decree a federal library? Depending on geography, you&amp;#x27;re local library is probably already funded at the state and federal level.</text></comment>
<story><title>The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive</title><url>https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988.306.1.pdf</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tombert</author><text>This is why I stopped donating to IA, and I will not donate until they get new leadership.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m a very big supporter of a lot of what IA does, but I feel if I donate, my money is just going to fund more and more legal defenses because Brewster Kahle is being stubborn, and I&amp;#x27;m afraid it&amp;#x27;s going to lead to the entire Archive being shut down.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve mentioned this before, but there are lots of cases where IA will let you download full video games for the switch that are still being actively sold [1].  The same applies to a lot of movies and TV shows, available via torrents no less.&lt;p&gt;Before someone gives me a lecture about data harboring laws and fair use, I know that it is technically on the copyright holder to issue takedown requests for infringing material, but even still, I think they&amp;#x27;d be smart to be a bit proactive about this.  If &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; know that the Internet Archive is an easy place to get pirated material, then I&amp;#x27;m quite confident that their staff does as well. If there&amp;#x27;s even one employee email that implies that they know about pirated content but didn&amp;#x27;t bother taking it down, then I think that&amp;#x27;s grounds for a lawsuit (though I&amp;#x27;m not a lawyer).&lt;p&gt;Much as I respect him for founding IA, I think that Kahle needs to be replaced as a leader.&lt;p&gt;[1] I&amp;#x27;m not going to link it here because I&amp;#x27;m not sure HN&amp;#x27;s policy on potentially legally dubious material, but it is not hard to find.</text></item><item><author>ilamont</author><text>This has been playing out for many years. And it&amp;#x27;s all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive&amp;#x27;s mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States.&lt;p&gt;When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Internet Archive says it would rather talk with writers individually than talk to the NWU or other writers’ organizations. But requests by NWU members to talk to or meet with the Internet Archive have been ignored or rebuffed.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;When the requests to abandon CDL turned into demands, Kahle dug in his heels. When the inevitable lawsuits followed, and IA lost, he insisted that he was still in the right and plowed ahead with appeals.&lt;p&gt;He also opened a new front in the court of public opinion. In his blog posts and interviews with U.S. media, Kahle portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians (see &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-statement&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-st...&lt;/a&gt;). It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;In addition, there has been real collateral damage to the many noble aspects of the Internet Archive. Legal fees and judgements have diverted resources away from the Wayback Machine, the library of public domain works, and other IA programs that provide real value to society. I truly hope the organization can survive.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jrflowers</author><text>&amp;gt; IA will let you download full video games for the switch that are still being actively sold [1]&lt;p&gt;I am not seeing that anywhere. I see a file called “My Nintendo Switch games collection” and it is a big jpeg photo of a bookshelf. Is this what you mean?</text></comment>