<story><title>TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-08/tsmc-gets-11-6-billion-in-us-grants-loans-for-three-chip-fabs</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>xyzzy4747</author><text>The people in government aren&amp;#x27;t incentivized to be effective largely because they have no personal financial reason to be. There&amp;#x27;s no stock options or things like that, no good bonus programs, etc.</text></item><item><author>afavour</author><text>Feels like a self fulfilling prophecy. There’s no reason government can’t be effective at decision making if things are set up the right way (their involvement could be distant). There’s also no reason to assume a giant company (like, say, Intel) is going to be particularly fast at it.</text></item><item><author>xyzzy4747</author><text>I disagree. You don&amp;#x27;t want the government to own things because they would be slow and ineffective at corporate governance. It&amp;#x27;s better to simply subsidize and let the business owners make the important decisions.</text></item><item><author>poidos</author><text>I wish it could be an investment instead of just grants and loans. Could be a way to jumpstart a national sovereign wealth fund.</text></item><item><author>joshuacc</author><text>How else do you propose to get a company to build a factory at your preferred location rather than theirs? Paying companies is the usual way to get them to do things.&lt;p&gt;The economic effects are important but secondary to the national security effects of having TSMC chip manufacturing on US soil.</text></item><item><author>crispyambulance</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s nice to build chip fabs in the USA, but is it _really_ necessary to &amp;quot;gift&amp;quot; some of the most capable and productive companies on the planet billions of dollars (not even counting the tax freebies)?&lt;p&gt;The whole CHIPS act thing seems backwards and short-sighted.&lt;p&gt;As the US education system is backsliding into literally worse-than-third-world outcomes, can we expect that companies like TSMC will even be able to find enough US workers to staff these facilities at a scale which will be large enough to move the economic needle?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>magicalhippo</author><text>Here in Norway the government fully owns several &amp;quot;private&amp;quot; companies[1], like Statkraft[2]. They can have bonus programs and similar. Some are too good[3][4], others[5] not quite as wild.&lt;p&gt;[1]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.regjeringen.no&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;topics&amp;#x2F;business-and-industry&amp;#x2F;state-ownership&amp;#x2F;id1336&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.regjeringen.no&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;topics&amp;#x2F;business-and-industry&amp;#x2F;s...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Statkraft&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Statkraft&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[3]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nrk.no&amp;#x2F;norge&amp;#x2F;statkraft-oker-inntekter-og-bonuser_-men-gar-i-minus-1.16044452&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nrk.no&amp;#x2F;norge&amp;#x2F;statkraft-oker-inntekter-og-bonuser...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[4]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dn.no&amp;#x2F;energi&amp;#x2F;narings-og-fiskeridepartementet&amp;#x2F;lo-topp-krever-apenhet-om-milliardbonuser-i-statkraft-det-fremstar-absurd-for-meg&amp;#x2F;2-1-1415755&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dn.no&amp;#x2F;energi&amp;#x2F;narings-og-fiskeridepartementet&amp;#x2F;lo-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[5]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.mesta.no&amp;#x2F;wp-content&amp;#x2F;uploads&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;Mesta_Vedlegg-D-Retningslinjer-om-lederloenn_2022.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.mesta.no&amp;#x2F;wp-content&amp;#x2F;uploads&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;Mesta_Vedleg...&lt;/a&gt; (page 2)</text></comment>
<story><title>TSMC Gets $11.6B in US Grants, Loans for Three Chip Fabs</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-08/tsmc-gets-11-6-billion-in-us-grants-loans-for-three-chip-fabs</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>xyzzy4747</author><text>The people in government aren&amp;#x27;t incentivized to be effective largely because they have no personal financial reason to be. There&amp;#x27;s no stock options or things like that, no good bonus programs, etc.</text></item><item><author>afavour</author><text>Feels like a self fulfilling prophecy. There’s no reason government can’t be effective at decision making if things are set up the right way (their involvement could be distant). There’s also no reason to assume a giant company (like, say, Intel) is going to be particularly fast at it.</text></item><item><author>xyzzy4747</author><text>I disagree. You don&amp;#x27;t want the government to own things because they would be slow and ineffective at corporate governance. It&amp;#x27;s better to simply subsidize and let the business owners make the important decisions.</text></item><item><author>poidos</author><text>I wish it could be an investment instead of just grants and loans. Could be a way to jumpstart a national sovereign wealth fund.</text></item><item><author>joshuacc</author><text>How else do you propose to get a company to build a factory at your preferred location rather than theirs? Paying companies is the usual way to get them to do things.&lt;p&gt;The economic effects are important but secondary to the national security effects of having TSMC chip manufacturing on US soil.</text></item><item><author>crispyambulance</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s nice to build chip fabs in the USA, but is it _really_ necessary to &amp;quot;gift&amp;quot; some of the most capable and productive companies on the planet billions of dollars (not even counting the tax freebies)?&lt;p&gt;The whole CHIPS act thing seems backwards and short-sighted.&lt;p&gt;As the US education system is backsliding into literally worse-than-third-world outcomes, can we expect that companies like TSMC will even be able to find enough US workers to staff these facilities at a scale which will be large enough to move the economic needle?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>hiddencost</author><text>Turns out that what happens in practice is corporations get chopped up for parts, and government usually does better.&lt;p&gt;Medicare for example is much more efficient than private health insurance.&lt;p&gt;The motivation for government employees is &amp;quot;because they care about doing the right thing&amp;quot;. You should try it some time.</text></comment>