<story><title>Consumers Are Becoming Wise to Your Nudge</title><url>https://behavioralscientist.org/consumers-are-becoming-wise-to-your-nudge/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ForHackernews</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a perfectly apt comparison. Software &amp;quot;engineers&amp;quot; are not actually engineers. We are not professionals, we are wage labor.&lt;p&gt;* No professional code of ethics.&lt;p&gt;* No professional body that oversees the profession and sets standards.&lt;p&gt;* No licensing or certification (except maybe in Canada).&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m sure I&amp;#x27;ll get a bunch of flack for this, but it&amp;#x27;s well past time developers stopped indulging in classist self-flattery pretending they&amp;#x27;re the peers of doctors, lawyers, or accountants.</text></item><item><author>xorcist</author><text>What a strange comparison. Would you consider it equally unjustified to hold construction engineers and architects responsible for constructing a death trap? Even if that is what the customer ordered?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s probably not a coincidence that engineers and doctors are professionals well known to place their own ethical standards above their customers. It is expected that a doctor refuse to carry out a procedure that puts innocent people at harm.</text></item><item><author>learc83</author><text>When a building without enough exits burns down and kills 100 people, blaming the construction workers who built it isn&amp;#x27;t going to help anything.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s rare that it&amp;#x27;s developers who actually come up with these ideas, they&amp;#x27;re usually just employees implementing someone else&amp;#x27;s plan.&lt;p&gt;Unless we&amp;#x27;re talking early startups--then there&amp;#x27;s a good chance the developer is responsible.</text></item><item><author>ryandrake</author><text>Remember, for every software-based dark pattern or fraud out there, there was a software developer who implemented it. Before we throw stones, we, as a profession should get better about self-policing and cleaning our ethical house.</text></item><item><author>NeedMoreTea</author><text>At this point there&amp;#x27;s little to no difference between con, dark pattern and fraud. I&amp;#x27;d like to see them prosecuted as such.</text></item><item><author>seieste</author><text>Yesterday I went to book a hotel and Priceline had a room for $129, which was $20 cheaper than Expedia or any other site.&lt;p&gt;Curious, I clicked on it and went to the Priceline site, and watched as a JavaScript animation “rolled” the price from $129 to $149 and alerted me that someone &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt; got the last room. Obviously the whole thing was fake. (Why would they implement such an animation, and how likely is it that someone got the room in those two seconds?)&lt;p&gt;At this point, it’s not even nudging or dark patterns but just straight out fraud.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>alexanderdmitri</author><text>Lawyers are notorious for being mercenaries for hire. The most successful firms contract with corporations that take advantage of the law to their gain and society&amp;#x27;s detriment.&lt;p&gt;Medical doctors work for an industry that bankrupts sick people for being sick and and a huge number (if not a majority) of practicing doctors can be implicated in the opioid epidemic that has killed thousands and ruined countless lives.&lt;p&gt;Ethical contracts usually just lead to more politics imo. At the end of the day, we all bow to money in one way or another (some are just willing to bow lower than others).&lt;p&gt;Maybe we should stop pretending a profession can somehow make a person better than someone else in some sort of meta&amp;#x2F;ethical way.&lt;p&gt;Addendum: Personally I wish the law were more open to allowing people to defend themselves. A few years ago I went to court to defend myself in what I was sure was a simple misunderstanding in traffic court. Halfway through my second sentence (not in the legal sense), the judge interrupted me. Then the police officer tried to explain what he put in the ticket may not have been comprehensive. The judge cut him off too and decided it was in my best interest to &amp;quot;learn a lesson&amp;quot; and found me guilty of a violation I was not guilty of. The lesson I learned was if I had paid a lawyer $500 I would have gotten an honest hearing. I don&amp;#x27;t see the ethics or standards in that.</text></comment>
<story><title>Consumers Are Becoming Wise to Your Nudge</title><url>https://behavioralscientist.org/consumers-are-becoming-wise-to-your-nudge/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ForHackernews</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a perfectly apt comparison. Software &amp;quot;engineers&amp;quot; are not actually engineers. We are not professionals, we are wage labor.&lt;p&gt;* No professional code of ethics.&lt;p&gt;* No professional body that oversees the profession and sets standards.&lt;p&gt;* No licensing or certification (except maybe in Canada).&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m sure I&amp;#x27;ll get a bunch of flack for this, but it&amp;#x27;s well past time developers stopped indulging in classist self-flattery pretending they&amp;#x27;re the peers of doctors, lawyers, or accountants.</text></item><item><author>xorcist</author><text>What a strange comparison. Would you consider it equally unjustified to hold construction engineers and architects responsible for constructing a death trap? Even if that is what the customer ordered?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s probably not a coincidence that engineers and doctors are professionals well known to place their own ethical standards above their customers. It is expected that a doctor refuse to carry out a procedure that puts innocent people at harm.</text></item><item><author>learc83</author><text>When a building without enough exits burns down and kills 100 people, blaming the construction workers who built it isn&amp;#x27;t going to help anything.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s rare that it&amp;#x27;s developers who actually come up with these ideas, they&amp;#x27;re usually just employees implementing someone else&amp;#x27;s plan.&lt;p&gt;Unless we&amp;#x27;re talking early startups--then there&amp;#x27;s a good chance the developer is responsible.</text></item><item><author>ryandrake</author><text>Remember, for every software-based dark pattern or fraud out there, there was a software developer who implemented it. Before we throw stones, we, as a profession should get better about self-policing and cleaning our ethical house.</text></item><item><author>NeedMoreTea</author><text>At this point there&amp;#x27;s little to no difference between con, dark pattern and fraud. I&amp;#x27;d like to see them prosecuted as such.</text></item><item><author>seieste</author><text>Yesterday I went to book a hotel and Priceline had a room for $129, which was $20 cheaper than Expedia or any other site.&lt;p&gt;Curious, I clicked on it and went to the Priceline site, and watched as a JavaScript animation “rolled” the price from $129 to $149 and alerted me that someone &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt; got the last room. Obviously the whole thing was fake. (Why would they implement such an animation, and how likely is it that someone got the room in those two seconds?)&lt;p&gt;At this point, it’s not even nudging or dark patterns but just straight out fraud.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>fortran77</author><text>Amen! And as someone who is an actual licensed P.E., it still makes me a little angry when I see computer programmers who call themselves &amp;quot;engineers.&amp;quot; This is technically illegal under some circumstances in many states, but rarely enforced.</text></comment>