<story><title>Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?</title><text>Due to the controversy around Apple&amp;#x27;s CSAM backdoor plans, it seems like quite a few people are wondering what kind of alternatives are available. Let&amp;#x27;s share them!&lt;p&gt;My choices:&lt;p&gt;- Desktop: Manjaro Gnome, because it feels like macOS. It even does the 3 finger swipe up to see all your apps with Apple&amp;#x27;s Touchpad. My wireless Apple Keyboard also works fine.&lt;p&gt;Screenshot: https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;imgur.com&amp;#x2F;a&amp;#x2F;UYPfgkC&lt;p&gt;To install it on my older MacBook Pro from 2014, but I had to use Android internet tethering to install the WiFi driver.
To install it on my super new desktop, I had to use an ISO with a newer Kernel (5.13) due to the Radeon 6700 XT graphics card. I got that one from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;github.com&amp;#x2F;manjaro&amp;#x2F;release-review&amp;#x2F;releases&amp;#x2F; instead of the Manjaro main website.&lt;p&gt;- Phone: I considered a Pixel with CalyxOS, but ended up buying a OnePlus 8T with microG variant of LineageOS from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;lineage.microg.org&lt;p&gt;Alternatively a Pixel phone would also run this version of LineageOS. MicroG (https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;microg.org&amp;#x2F;) re-implements some parts of Google Play Services, while safeguarding your privacy, like push notifications. It also has some other Google-specific features re-implemented. I have over 40 apps and only found 1 that didn&amp;#x27;t work so far (which is Uber Eats, because they seem to require Google Advertisement ID). I pushed a modified Google Camera app to it (from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.celsoazevedo.com&amp;#x2F;), so my camera is better supported. I think only 3 out of 4 cameras are working, but I don&amp;#x27;t care.&lt;p&gt;- Watch: Amazfit GTR 2e with the official app. Alternatively it should work with Gadgetbridge if you don&amp;#x27;t want to use the offical app (&amp;quot;Zepp&amp;quot;). Amazfit GTR 2 is a better option if you want it to have WiFi and want to store music on it. Alternatives I considered: OnePlus Watch and Fossil Hybrid.&lt;p&gt;Apple features that I gave up:&lt;p&gt;- Apple Carplay: Because I don&amp;#x27;t want to use the Google ecosystem, Android Auto is not an alternative. I&amp;#x27;ll use my car&amp;#x27;s own GPS system, or I&amp;#x27;ll end up using my phone&amp;#x27;s offline maps.&lt;p&gt;- Apple Pay: My bank luckily has a contactless payment app for my phone, but I won&amp;#x27;t be making payments with my watch anymore.</text></story><parent_chain><item><author>jrockway</author><text>Apple&amp;#x27;s using my electricity and my silicon to call the cops on me.  We have no idea what hashes they&amp;#x27;re checking images against; we can&amp;#x27;t see the raw data, and we can&amp;#x27;t see the hashes, and we can&amp;#x27;t see what they&amp;#x27;re sending to their servers.&lt;p&gt;There is no technical reason why this needs to exist.  If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers.  iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted.  Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy.  Today, they say it&amp;#x27;s for CSAM.  Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don&amp;#x27;t live, it could be your own.&lt;p&gt;Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News?  This is the first step towards that reality.&lt;p&gt;Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don&amp;#x27;t like.  The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you&amp;#x27;re on that list is to install the app on your phone.  The app does two things -- nothing if you&amp;#x27;re not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are.  Would you install that app?  Absolutely not, that would be crazy.  But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.&lt;p&gt;I really like my iPhone and iPad Pro.  I like how Apple handles privacy in general.  But I can&amp;#x27;t accept this.  It&amp;#x27;s a step too far.  You don&amp;#x27;t have to draw the line there, but I draw the line there.</text></item><item><author>scoopertrooper</author><text>Exactly, I think people are just getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. Apple computes a hash of each image you upload to iCloud then check it against a list of CP hashes.&lt;p&gt;Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous.&lt;p&gt;I get it, the mechanism they&amp;#x27;re using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick the algorithm into thinking you have CP.&lt;p&gt;But, that alone is such a ridiculous phobia, if someone has that level of access to your phone, they could upload real CP and maybe even upload it to your Facebook for good measure.</text></item><item><author>gjsman-1000</author><text>To be honest... None.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren&amp;#x27;t enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs.&lt;p&gt;I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they&amp;#x27;ve been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to battery life and useful apps I need. I&amp;#x27;ll pick CSAM Scanning over my Location data being in the hands of Google, sorry.&lt;p&gt;And as for my laptop, macOS doesn&amp;#x27;t scan, and the M1 is too impressive and has me spoiled. And I have too many horror stories with both Linux and Windows and can&amp;#x27;t stand either of them. (Don&amp;#x27;t tell me switch to Linux - I&amp;#x27;ve tried over a dozen distributions over the last decade. It&amp;#x27;s just not there yet.)</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>scoopertrooper</author><text>&amp;gt; Apple&amp;#x27;s using my electricity and my silicon to call the cops on me.&lt;p&gt;Okay.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; We have no idea what hashes they&amp;#x27;re checking images against; we can&amp;#x27;t see the raw data, and we can&amp;#x27;t see the hashes, and we can&amp;#x27;t see what they&amp;#x27;re sending to their servers.&lt;p&gt;Apple is getting the entire image regardless, this happens as part of the iCloud upload process.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; There is no technical reason why this needs to exist. If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers. iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted. Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s a hell of a lot cheaper to distribute the load onto the device than to do it on GCP. However, this whole line of thinking is ridiculous, iOS is your operating system, it can send what it likes where it likes without you knowing about it. Why does this particular thing cause concern?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don&amp;#x27;t live, it could be your own.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News? This is the first step towards that reality.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.txstate.edu&amp;#x2F;philosophy&amp;#x2F;resources&amp;#x2F;fallacy-definitions&amp;#x2F;Slippery-Slope.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.txstate.edu&amp;#x2F;philosophy&amp;#x2F;resources&amp;#x2F;fallacy-definit...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don&amp;#x27;t like. The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you&amp;#x27;re on that list is to install the app on your phone. The app does two things -- nothing if you&amp;#x27;re not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are. Would you install that app? Absolutely not, that would be crazy. But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.&lt;p&gt;Again, your overlooking the fact that this app is already coming from Apple the company that made iOS. They already control your phone, why would they need some additional app?</text></comment>
<story><title>Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?</title><text>Due to the controversy around Apple&amp;#x27;s CSAM backdoor plans, it seems like quite a few people are wondering what kind of alternatives are available. Let&amp;#x27;s share them!&lt;p&gt;My choices:&lt;p&gt;- Desktop: Manjaro Gnome, because it feels like macOS. It even does the 3 finger swipe up to see all your apps with Apple&amp;#x27;s Touchpad. My wireless Apple Keyboard also works fine.&lt;p&gt;Screenshot: https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;imgur.com&amp;#x2F;a&amp;#x2F;UYPfgkC&lt;p&gt;To install it on my older MacBook Pro from 2014, but I had to use Android internet tethering to install the WiFi driver.
To install it on my super new desktop, I had to use an ISO with a newer Kernel (5.13) due to the Radeon 6700 XT graphics card. I got that one from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;github.com&amp;#x2F;manjaro&amp;#x2F;release-review&amp;#x2F;releases&amp;#x2F; instead of the Manjaro main website.&lt;p&gt;- Phone: I considered a Pixel with CalyxOS, but ended up buying a OnePlus 8T with microG variant of LineageOS from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;lineage.microg.org&lt;p&gt;Alternatively a Pixel phone would also run this version of LineageOS. MicroG (https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;microg.org&amp;#x2F;) re-implements some parts of Google Play Services, while safeguarding your privacy, like push notifications. It also has some other Google-specific features re-implemented. I have over 40 apps and only found 1 that didn&amp;#x27;t work so far (which is Uber Eats, because they seem to require Google Advertisement ID). I pushed a modified Google Camera app to it (from https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.celsoazevedo.com&amp;#x2F;), so my camera is better supported. I think only 3 out of 4 cameras are working, but I don&amp;#x27;t care.&lt;p&gt;- Watch: Amazfit GTR 2e with the official app. Alternatively it should work with Gadgetbridge if you don&amp;#x27;t want to use the offical app (&amp;quot;Zepp&amp;quot;). Amazfit GTR 2 is a better option if you want it to have WiFi and want to store music on it. Alternatives I considered: OnePlus Watch and Fossil Hybrid.&lt;p&gt;Apple features that I gave up:&lt;p&gt;- Apple Carplay: Because I don&amp;#x27;t want to use the Google ecosystem, Android Auto is not an alternative. I&amp;#x27;ll use my car&amp;#x27;s own GPS system, or I&amp;#x27;ll end up using my phone&amp;#x27;s offline maps.&lt;p&gt;- Apple Pay: My bank luckily has a contactless payment app for my phone, but I won&amp;#x27;t be making payments with my watch anymore.</text></story><parent_chain><item><author>jrockway</author><text>Apple&amp;#x27;s using my electricity and my silicon to call the cops on me.  We have no idea what hashes they&amp;#x27;re checking images against; we can&amp;#x27;t see the raw data, and we can&amp;#x27;t see the hashes, and we can&amp;#x27;t see what they&amp;#x27;re sending to their servers.&lt;p&gt;There is no technical reason why this needs to exist.  If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers.  iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted.  Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy.  Today, they say it&amp;#x27;s for CSAM.  Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don&amp;#x27;t live, it could be your own.&lt;p&gt;Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News?  This is the first step towards that reality.&lt;p&gt;Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don&amp;#x27;t like.  The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you&amp;#x27;re on that list is to install the app on your phone.  The app does two things -- nothing if you&amp;#x27;re not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are.  Would you install that app?  Absolutely not, that would be crazy.  But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.&lt;p&gt;I really like my iPhone and iPad Pro.  I like how Apple handles privacy in general.  But I can&amp;#x27;t accept this.  It&amp;#x27;s a step too far.  You don&amp;#x27;t have to draw the line there, but I draw the line there.</text></item><item><author>scoopertrooper</author><text>Exactly, I think people are just getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. Apple computes a hash of each image you upload to iCloud then check it against a list of CP hashes.&lt;p&gt;Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous.&lt;p&gt;I get it, the mechanism they&amp;#x27;re using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick the algorithm into thinking you have CP.&lt;p&gt;But, that alone is such a ridiculous phobia, if someone has that level of access to your phone, they could upload real CP and maybe even upload it to your Facebook for good measure.</text></item><item><author>gjsman-1000</author><text>To be honest... None.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren&amp;#x27;t enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs.&lt;p&gt;I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they&amp;#x27;ve been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to battery life and useful apps I need. I&amp;#x27;ll pick CSAM Scanning over my Location data being in the hands of Google, sorry.&lt;p&gt;And as for my laptop, macOS doesn&amp;#x27;t scan, and the M1 is too impressive and has me spoiled. And I have too many horror stories with both Linux and Windows and can&amp;#x27;t stand either of them. (Don&amp;#x27;t tell me switch to Linux - I&amp;#x27;ve tried over a dozen distributions over the last decade. It&amp;#x27;s just not there yet.)</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>gjsman-1000</author><text>Apple could scan on the cloud. Rumor is that Apple wants to use E2E on iCloud, and this is a necessary step to shut up the government&amp;#x27;s biggest critique of E2E and deploy it before the government can figure out a different excuse. We&amp;#x27;ll see if that pans out.</text></comment>