<story><title>U.S. Embassy in Kabul Tells Staff to Destroy Sensitive Material and Evacuate</title><url>https://text.npr.org/1027390545</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>colechristensen</author><text>Unpopular suggestion: Actual imperial rule for a couple of generations.&lt;p&gt;Tax enough to pay for the effort but not for a &amp;quot;profit&amp;quot;. Build infrastructure by bringing outside expertise to train and build local business.  Take control of schools, make them safe and required for all children.  Respect the local culture but smash hard some cultural practices.&lt;p&gt;Would it be incredibly hard to do without abuse? Absolutely.  Is it questionably moral? Absolutely. Could it even be done at all? Questionable.&lt;p&gt;We keep acting that the outcome of every military conflict is going to be like the liberation of France in WWII, kill the &amp;quot;bad guys&amp;quot; and then champagne and croissant parades with the locals.&lt;p&gt;The repeated failed attempts at just handing self-government to nations after we depose their governments shows that you can&amp;#x27;t just win wars and fix problems with force alone.  War is awful, it should happen as infrequently as possible, but if you&amp;#x27;re going to do it, you better have a plan for winning the peace.  Corrupt, half-assed nation building doesn&amp;#x27;t cut it.</text></item><item><author>ren_engineer</author><text>then let it be another Saigon, what alternative did the US have than pull out? If you know anybody in the military they all say it&amp;#x27;s worse than it was years ago and only continuing to get worse&lt;p&gt;so the only option was pull out or continue with the sunk cost fallacy of thinking we can somehow fix Afghanistan by doubling down with another troop surge. I&amp;#x27;m glad we are finally admitting it was a failure</text></item><item><author>jdhn</author><text>This is going to be Saigon all over again. The pictures coming out of this will be remarkable. That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us for decades as interpreters and other support roles. Both parties are failing those brave men and women in not expediting approval for them to come to the US, as their lives will assuredly be in danger if they stay in Afghanistan.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>throw0101a</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;Respect the local culture but smash hard some cultural practices.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;If you want good self-government of a people, then you must eliminate tribal&amp;#x2F;clan structures so that advantages aren&amp;#x27;t given to uncles&amp;#x2F;cousins, but rather to people independent of their relations.&lt;p&gt;* &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;ideas.repec.org&amp;#x2F;p&amp;#x2F;sfu&amp;#x2F;sfudps&amp;#x2F;dp17-17.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;ideas.repec.org&amp;#x2F;p&amp;#x2F;sfu&amp;#x2F;sfudps&amp;#x2F;dp17-17.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;* &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.u4.no&amp;#x2F;publications&amp;#x2F;the-kinship-in-public-office-indicator-kin-connectivity-as-a-proxy-for-nepotism-in-the-public-sector&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.u4.no&amp;#x2F;publications&amp;#x2F;the-kinship-in-public-office-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;* &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.scirp.org&amp;#x2F;journal&amp;#x2F;paperinformation.aspx?paperid=108992&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.scirp.org&amp;#x2F;journal&amp;#x2F;paperinformation.aspx?paperid=...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;* &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;doi.org&amp;#x2F;10.1017&amp;#x2F;S0003055415000271&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;doi.org&amp;#x2F;10.1017&amp;#x2F;S0003055415000271&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;How much of a tribal&amp;#x2F;clan culture is present in Afghanistan?&lt;p&gt;* &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Kinship&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Kinship&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>U.S. Embassy in Kabul Tells Staff to Destroy Sensitive Material and Evacuate</title><url>https://text.npr.org/1027390545</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>colechristensen</author><text>Unpopular suggestion: Actual imperial rule for a couple of generations.&lt;p&gt;Tax enough to pay for the effort but not for a &amp;quot;profit&amp;quot;. Build infrastructure by bringing outside expertise to train and build local business.  Take control of schools, make them safe and required for all children.  Respect the local culture but smash hard some cultural practices.&lt;p&gt;Would it be incredibly hard to do without abuse? Absolutely.  Is it questionably moral? Absolutely. Could it even be done at all? Questionable.&lt;p&gt;We keep acting that the outcome of every military conflict is going to be like the liberation of France in WWII, kill the &amp;quot;bad guys&amp;quot; and then champagne and croissant parades with the locals.&lt;p&gt;The repeated failed attempts at just handing self-government to nations after we depose their governments shows that you can&amp;#x27;t just win wars and fix problems with force alone.  War is awful, it should happen as infrequently as possible, but if you&amp;#x27;re going to do it, you better have a plan for winning the peace.  Corrupt, half-assed nation building doesn&amp;#x27;t cut it.</text></item><item><author>ren_engineer</author><text>then let it be another Saigon, what alternative did the US have than pull out? If you know anybody in the military they all say it&amp;#x27;s worse than it was years ago and only continuing to get worse&lt;p&gt;so the only option was pull out or continue with the sunk cost fallacy of thinking we can somehow fix Afghanistan by doubling down with another troop surge. I&amp;#x27;m glad we are finally admitting it was a failure</text></item><item><author>jdhn</author><text>This is going to be Saigon all over again. The pictures coming out of this will be remarkable. That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us for decades as interpreters and other support roles. Both parties are failing those brave men and women in not expediting approval for them to come to the US, as their lives will assuredly be in danger if they stay in Afghanistan.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>nradov</author><text>Morality aside, as a practical matter sustaining an imperial occupation in Afghanistan would require also invading and occupying part of Pakistan. It&amp;#x27;s a package deal. Nothing could ever be accomplished in Afghanistan as long as insurgents have a safe just across the border.</text></comment>