<story><title>Apple&apos;s apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur</title><url>https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1318465421796782082</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>coldtea</author><text>They provide the OS. If you don&amp;#x27;t trust them, then you shouldn&amp;#x27;t trust anything running on top of it either...</text></item><item><author>Wowfunhappy</author><text>If I install Little Snitch, it&amp;#x27;s because I trust Little Snitch to be responsible for my computer&amp;#x27;s network traffic, over and above anyone else.&lt;p&gt;I recognize that this won&amp;#x27;t necessarily apply to all users or all apps, but there needs to be a way for the user to designate trust. Apple services and traffic should not get special treatment.</text></item><item><author>3pt14159</author><text>This is one of those tough cases where software cuts both ways.&lt;p&gt;Some people are smart, informed developers that install a trusted tool to monitor their traffic and have legitimate reasons to want to inspect Apple traffic. They&amp;#x27;re dismayed.&lt;p&gt;Most people are the opposite and this move protects the most sensitive data from being easily scooped up or muddled in easily installed apps, or at least easily installed apps that don&amp;#x27;t use zero days.&lt;p&gt;Is the world better or worse due to this change? I&amp;#x27;d say a touch better, but I don&amp;#x27;t like the fact that this change was needed in the first place. I trust Apple, but I don&amp;#x27;t like trusting trust.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>_jal</author><text>That&amp;#x27;s the exactly the thing - they are, indeed, chasing me off. When this Mac dies, I&amp;#x27;ll be replacing it with something running Debian.&lt;p&gt;It is too bad - the Mac hit this sweet-spot where it was pretty much my perfect machine for several years - a kickass Unix workstation in a decently built laptop, with a decent GUI, with access to consumer apps, too. It was great while it lasted.&lt;p&gt;Thing is, this is a reasonable thing for Apple to do. Back when they weren&amp;#x27;t enormous, it made sense for them to at least make token gestures to the Unix-weenie&amp;#x2F;developer market - we threw a lot of money at them and made them hip when they were down and out. Now we&amp;#x27;re in rounding-error territory, and that we got what we wanted for a while was sort of a happy accident, anyway. Building developer dream-machines was never Apple&amp;#x27;s thing.&lt;p&gt;I bought my first Mac in 1991, and this one will last a while longer. Can&amp;#x27;t really complain too much about 30 years of decent-to-awesome tools.</text></comment>
<story><title>Apple&apos;s apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur</title><url>https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1318465421796782082</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>coldtea</author><text>They provide the OS. If you don&amp;#x27;t trust them, then you shouldn&amp;#x27;t trust anything running on top of it either...</text></item><item><author>Wowfunhappy</author><text>If I install Little Snitch, it&amp;#x27;s because I trust Little Snitch to be responsible for my computer&amp;#x27;s network traffic, over and above anyone else.&lt;p&gt;I recognize that this won&amp;#x27;t necessarily apply to all users or all apps, but there needs to be a way for the user to designate trust. Apple services and traffic should not get special treatment.</text></item><item><author>3pt14159</author><text>This is one of those tough cases where software cuts both ways.&lt;p&gt;Some people are smart, informed developers that install a trusted tool to monitor their traffic and have legitimate reasons to want to inspect Apple traffic. They&amp;#x27;re dismayed.&lt;p&gt;Most people are the opposite and this move protects the most sensitive data from being easily scooped up or muddled in easily installed apps, or at least easily installed apps that don&amp;#x27;t use zero days.&lt;p&gt;Is the world better or worse due to this change? I&amp;#x27;d say a touch better, but I don&amp;#x27;t like the fact that this change was needed in the first place. I trust Apple, but I don&amp;#x27;t like trusting trust.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>AnthonyMouse</author><text>&amp;gt; If you don&amp;#x27;t trust them, then you shouldn&amp;#x27;t trust anything running on top of it either...&lt;p&gt;Trust, but verify.&lt;p&gt;The problem with this is that it&amp;#x27;s taking away the ability to verify. Which takes away the ability to trust.</text></comment>