<story><title>NYC pilot tries mental health responders in place of police</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-13/nyc-pilot-sends-health-workers-in-place-of-police</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>psyc</author><text>Sounds to me like you’re falling right into the stigmatizing myth that the mentally ill are especially likely to be violent. Even calling them “the worst society has to offer”, and so far nobody is calling you on it. Presumably there would be some up front report and assessment of whether the person is exhibiting violent behavior. The &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; “worst of society” should obviously be dealt with by police.</text></item><item><author>goodells</author><text>I work as an EMT for a 911 service.  The general attitude that I have and other EMS providers I’ve talked with seem to share is that this won’t end well.&lt;p&gt;The first thing we’re taught is that the scene must be safe.  If it’s not safe, we stage nearby until law enforcement or fire tell us to come in.  The 911 dispatch is notorious for misevaluating the nature and severity of a situation, and generally we are toned out to an address and keep getting updates with call details as we are driving there.  In this country where anyone can have a gun on them, there is no way in hell that I and my partner are approaching an emotionally disturbed person with no way to defend ourselves.  If something goes wrong, the most effective weapon we have is an oxygen tank.  And now the public’s perception of drugs like ketamine for chemical restraint is souring, so the message seems to be “Go deal with the worst our society has to offer, with no backup in case they try to hurt you, no not even safe chemical restraints. And no sorry we can’t pay you more than a cashier at WalMart... but you’re heroes!”  Just last year a firefighter paramedic in my state was shot dead after administering naloxone to a man and saving his life.&lt;p&gt;Part of it is the compensation.  Law enforcement officers are paid substantially more than the EMS folks here with the understanding that they take on more risk.  We make $12 hourly... not enough to accept drastically increasing our chances of being hurt or killed.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>bigbubba</author><text>It sounds to me like goodells is relating their experiences.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;Presumably there would be some up front report and assessment of whether the person is exhibiting violent behavior.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s a very presumptuous thing to presume, when the person who actually has personal experience with the matter says that dispatch is notorious for misevaluating situations (surely through no fault of their own much of the time, since dispatch is not on the scene and can only relay what they&amp;#x27;ve been told.)</text></comment>
<story><title>NYC pilot tries mental health responders in place of police</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-13/nyc-pilot-sends-health-workers-in-place-of-police</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>psyc</author><text>Sounds to me like you’re falling right into the stigmatizing myth that the mentally ill are especially likely to be violent. Even calling them “the worst society has to offer”, and so far nobody is calling you on it. Presumably there would be some up front report and assessment of whether the person is exhibiting violent behavior. The &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; “worst of society” should obviously be dealt with by police.</text></item><item><author>goodells</author><text>I work as an EMT for a 911 service.  The general attitude that I have and other EMS providers I’ve talked with seem to share is that this won’t end well.&lt;p&gt;The first thing we’re taught is that the scene must be safe.  If it’s not safe, we stage nearby until law enforcement or fire tell us to come in.  The 911 dispatch is notorious for misevaluating the nature and severity of a situation, and generally we are toned out to an address and keep getting updates with call details as we are driving there.  In this country where anyone can have a gun on them, there is no way in hell that I and my partner are approaching an emotionally disturbed person with no way to defend ourselves.  If something goes wrong, the most effective weapon we have is an oxygen tank.  And now the public’s perception of drugs like ketamine for chemical restraint is souring, so the message seems to be “Go deal with the worst our society has to offer, with no backup in case they try to hurt you, no not even safe chemical restraints. And no sorry we can’t pay you more than a cashier at WalMart... but you’re heroes!”  Just last year a firefighter paramedic in my state was shot dead after administering naloxone to a man and saving his life.&lt;p&gt;Part of it is the compensation.  Law enforcement officers are paid substantially more than the EMS folks here with the understanding that they take on more risk.  We make $12 hourly... not enough to accept drastically increasing our chances of being hurt or killed.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>NoOneNew</author><text>And you&amp;#x27;re falling into the trap of &amp;quot;everything works in theory&amp;quot;. Dont pretend the real world is a clear cut place. Boots on the ground experience breats armchair keyboard academics.</text></comment>