<story><title>The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive</title><url>https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988.306.1.pdf</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>teruakohatu</author><text>&amp;gt; In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is against &amp;quot;the people who work very hard to bring new books into being&amp;quot; is unfair. The copyright goalposts have moved so far past where they were originally, the people who work very hard can be dead for decades and their works still in copyright, and by the time they are dead for 70 years, the copyright will probably be extended again.</text></item><item><author>ilamont</author><text>This has been playing out for many years. And it&amp;#x27;s all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive&amp;#x27;s mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States.&lt;p&gt;When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Internet Archive says it would rather talk with writers individually than talk to the NWU or other writers’ organizations. But requests by NWU members to talk to or meet with the Internet Archive have been ignored or rebuffed.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;When the requests to abandon CDL turned into demands, Kahle dug in his heels. When the inevitable lawsuits followed, and IA lost, he insisted that he was still in the right and plowed ahead with appeals.&lt;p&gt;He also opened a new front in the court of public opinion. In his blog posts and interviews with U.S. media, Kahle portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians (see &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-statement&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-st...&lt;/a&gt;). It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;In addition, there has been real collateral damage to the many noble aspects of the Internet Archive. Legal fees and judgements have diverted resources away from the Wayback Machine, the library of public domain works, and other IA programs that provide real value to society. I truly hope the organization can survive.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>lolinder</author><text>I agree with you about copyright, but the fact is that the IA never had a chance and we &lt;i&gt;knew&lt;/i&gt; it years ago.&lt;p&gt;The top comment on HN a week after their launch of the EL is critical [0], right at the moment when HN would be most expected to rally to their defense. By the time the lawsuit was actually starting to take shape most commenters had become very concerned for the fate of the IA [1]. This is on a forum that reliably champions freedom of information, but most of us knew even at the time that what they&amp;#x27;d done was &lt;i&gt;extremely&lt;/i&gt; unlikely to pass muster.&lt;p&gt;The IA was never going to be hailed as a cultural hero because &lt;i&gt;they stood no chance&lt;/i&gt;, and they are too valuable for other, unrelated reasons to make themselves a martyr. This never should have happened under the same legal entity as the web archive.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=22731472&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=22731472&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=23485182&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=23485182&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive</title><url>https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988/gov.uscourts.ca2.60988.306.1.pdf</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>teruakohatu</author><text>&amp;gt; In his many interviews with U.S. media, he portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians. It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;If IA had won, IA would be hailed as a cultural hero. They hit and they missed. Claiming Brewster Kahle is against &amp;quot;the people who work very hard to bring new books into being&amp;quot; is unfair. The copyright goalposts have moved so far past where they were originally, the people who work very hard can be dead for decades and their works still in copyright, and by the time they are dead for 70 years, the copyright will probably be extended again.</text></item><item><author>ilamont</author><text>This has been playing out for many years. And it&amp;#x27;s all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive&amp;#x27;s mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States.&lt;p&gt;When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Internet Archive says it would rather talk with writers individually than talk to the NWU or other writers’ organizations. But requests by NWU members to talk to or meet with the Internet Archive have been ignored or rebuffed.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;nwu.org&amp;#x2F;nwu-denounces-cdl&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;When the requests to abandon CDL turned into demands, Kahle dug in his heels. When the inevitable lawsuits followed, and IA lost, he insisted that he was still in the right and plowed ahead with appeals.&lt;p&gt;He also opened a new front in the court of public opinion. In his blog posts and interviews with U.S. media, Kahle portrays the court cases and legal judgements as a crusade against the Internet Archive and all librarians (see &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-statement&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;blog.archive.org&amp;#x2F;2023&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;15&amp;#x2F;brewster-kahle-appeal-st...&lt;/a&gt;). It&amp;#x27;s not. It&amp;#x27;s the logical outcome of one man&amp;#x27;s seemingly fanatical conviction against the law and the people who work very hard to bring new books into being.&lt;p&gt;In addition, there has been real collateral damage to the many noble aspects of the Internet Archive. Legal fees and judgements have diverted resources away from the Wayback Machine, the library of public domain works, and other IA programs that provide real value to society. I truly hope the organization can survive.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>doublescoop</author><text>This wasn&amp;#x27;t a case of the estates of dead authors trying to hold onto rights. Working authors were actively being harmed by the activities of the IA through the CDL. Working authors were met with refusals to meet to discuss this issue.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think that characterization of Kahle is unfair at all. His position was unreasonable, determined to be illegal, and damaging to people who depend on copyright to license their work.</text></comment>