<story><title>What people get paid to work in journalism</title><url>https://www.cjr.org/cjr_outbox/google-doc-journalism-media-pay.php</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>nradov</author><text>This is a common HN fallacy. The reality is that most software engineers wildly overestimate their own intelligence and are barely even competent at their own jobs. The notion that they could quickly get up to speed on another complex job is ludicrous. For starters most engineers struggle with interviewing people and extracting accurate information from them; that&amp;#x27;s one key reason why most new software fails to satisfy user requirements.</text></item><item><author>ravenstine</author><text>Sure, but journalism is a low ROI product, and some say that the news is just a loss leader for the media and the political establishment to have influence.  The vast majority of news stories are read for a few hours and are forgotten about.  Most news is junk that most people(rightfully) don&amp;#x27;t want to pay very much for, even when it&amp;#x27;s not junk.&lt;p&gt;Both the state of journalism as well as what journalists get paid is pretty sad, but they might as well be shouting at the clouds.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s how I think of it: I have no doubt that anyone could take a room full of software engineers and start a functioning news organization the next day.  I doubt that anyone could take a room full of journalists and have them writing production ready code in under a month.  (I worked with journalists for over 3 years and only knew of 1 who knew how to code)</text></item><item><author>lacker</author><text>So with 15 years of experience as a New York Times editor, you make about 80% as much money as a newly hired software engineer at Google with zero experience. No wonder traditional media is bitter about the tech companies.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>alex504</author><text>Thanks for saying this. I am sick of software engineers thinking they are smarter and than other people because they make more money.&lt;p&gt;How much money you make does not equate to your worth as a human being.&lt;p&gt;Software engineering is not that difficult.&lt;p&gt;There are lots of things just as difficult if not more difficult than software engineering.&lt;p&gt;The majority of software engineers contribute very little to society if anything.&lt;p&gt;Just because you have a good software engineering job does not make you a successful person or better than other people who are pursuing other ways of living their lives.</text></comment>
<story><title>What people get paid to work in journalism</title><url>https://www.cjr.org/cjr_outbox/google-doc-journalism-media-pay.php</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>nradov</author><text>This is a common HN fallacy. The reality is that most software engineers wildly overestimate their own intelligence and are barely even competent at their own jobs. The notion that they could quickly get up to speed on another complex job is ludicrous. For starters most engineers struggle with interviewing people and extracting accurate information from them; that&amp;#x27;s one key reason why most new software fails to satisfy user requirements.</text></item><item><author>ravenstine</author><text>Sure, but journalism is a low ROI product, and some say that the news is just a loss leader for the media and the political establishment to have influence.  The vast majority of news stories are read for a few hours and are forgotten about.  Most news is junk that most people(rightfully) don&amp;#x27;t want to pay very much for, even when it&amp;#x27;s not junk.&lt;p&gt;Both the state of journalism as well as what journalists get paid is pretty sad, but they might as well be shouting at the clouds.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s how I think of it: I have no doubt that anyone could take a room full of software engineers and start a functioning news organization the next day.  I doubt that anyone could take a room full of journalists and have them writing production ready code in under a month.  (I worked with journalists for over 3 years and only knew of 1 who knew how to code)</text></item><item><author>lacker</author><text>So with 15 years of experience as a New York Times editor, you make about 80% as much money as a newly hired software engineer at Google with zero experience. No wonder traditional media is bitter about the tech companies.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>tidepod12</author><text>Seriously. It&amp;#x27;s especially laughable to say that a room of software engineers could become journalists, of all things. The vast majority of the SWEs I know, even the rockstars at FAANG companies, can hardly write coherent emails or give a presentation during a 5-person standup meeting. To think they could write entire news articles is hilarious.</text></comment>