<story><title>Details emerge of Air France B777 landing incident</title><url>https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/30863-air-france-boeing-777-incident-bea-update</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>throwawaylinux</author><text>How would it be reaching such a high pitch angle with two opposite inputs on the controls? Doesn&amp;#x27;t that mean one of the pilots is still trying to increase pitch?!&lt;p&gt;Also it seems crazy that a modern aircraft can have pilots silently fighting one another for controls without realizing it. If standard practice is to have only one operating the controls at any time, why not a switch that enforces input from only one set of controls?</text></item><item><author>tempnow987</author><text>As soon as I heard the plane was &amp;quot;unresponsive&amp;quot; to controls I immediately though pilot error just because how unlikely a plane is to be actually unresponsive to controls.&lt;p&gt;Edit: Wow - reading the report I see they got to a 24 degree pitch angle on go around? That seems high, I thought you topped out at 15 or so. This is Air France stuff all over again with the pitch up into a stall etc. I&amp;#x27;d love to know how experienced the FO was.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Eventually a point is reached whereby any further increase in angle of attack does not produce an increase in lift, and this point is called the stalling, or critical, angle of attack. Each airfoil has a different critical angle of attack, but with typical general aviation airfoils it is roughly 16 to 20 degrees. &amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Pitch and AoA are different, but during a landing &amp;#x2F; go around you are in a low speed regime and it just seems like pitching to nearly 30 degrees nose up is excessive. Is that Air France&amp;#x27;s standard go around vs 10-15?&lt;p&gt;The true story might be that the captain saved this plane with his nose down inputs.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>NickRandom</author><text>That is exactly what happened to Air France flight 447 (two pilots operating controls in different directions)&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.popularmechanics.com&amp;#x2F;flight&amp;#x2F;a3115&amp;#x2F;what-really-happened-aboard-air-france-447-6611877&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.popularmechanics.com&amp;#x2F;flight&amp;#x2F;a3115&amp;#x2F;what-really-ha...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;(&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=31193445&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=31193445&lt;/a&gt;)</text></comment>
<story><title>Details emerge of Air France B777 landing incident</title><url>https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/30863-air-france-boeing-777-incident-bea-update</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>throwawaylinux</author><text>How would it be reaching such a high pitch angle with two opposite inputs on the controls? Doesn&amp;#x27;t that mean one of the pilots is still trying to increase pitch?!&lt;p&gt;Also it seems crazy that a modern aircraft can have pilots silently fighting one another for controls without realizing it. If standard practice is to have only one operating the controls at any time, why not a switch that enforces input from only one set of controls?</text></item><item><author>tempnow987</author><text>As soon as I heard the plane was &amp;quot;unresponsive&amp;quot; to controls I immediately though pilot error just because how unlikely a plane is to be actually unresponsive to controls.&lt;p&gt;Edit: Wow - reading the report I see they got to a 24 degree pitch angle on go around? That seems high, I thought you topped out at 15 or so. This is Air France stuff all over again with the pitch up into a stall etc. I&amp;#x27;d love to know how experienced the FO was.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Eventually a point is reached whereby any further increase in angle of attack does not produce an increase in lift, and this point is called the stalling, or critical, angle of attack. Each airfoil has a different critical angle of attack, but with typical general aviation airfoils it is roughly 16 to 20 degrees. &amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Pitch and AoA are different, but during a landing &amp;#x2F; go around you are in a low speed regime and it just seems like pitching to nearly 30 degrees nose up is excessive. Is that Air France&amp;#x27;s standard go around vs 10-15?&lt;p&gt;The true story might be that the captain saved this plane with his nose down inputs.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rob74</author><text>I guess that&amp;#x27;s because the flying pilot might become incapacitated at any time (i.e. stroke, heart attack, ...), and then the other pilot has to take over as quickly as possible, and an additional switch that they have to locate and flip would need more time than just moving the controls?</text></comment>