<story><title>UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI</title><url>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/secrecy-for-high-risk-tech-research-agency-aria-h72lql80k</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dalbasal</author><text>Sure, corruption and insiderism is an important topic in its own right.&lt;p&gt;Up and down this thread though, it seems that British HNers are insisting that it&amp;#x27;s the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; topic. IE, they&amp;#x27;re against this agency (and presumably everything else that spends money in any way) because corruption.&lt;p&gt;Is this true for roads? No new schools, parks or research agencies until corruption is gone? It seems over the top to me. The &amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;Boris&amp;#x27; girlfriend gets a £100k grant&lt;/i&gt;&amp;quot; storyline is salacious, but I don&amp;#x27;t think it&amp;#x27;s unusual. Insiderism exists. It existed yesterday, last year. I&amp;#x27;m sure Winston Churchill&amp;#x27;s girlfriend also did well out of the deal. c&amp;#x27;est la vie&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m definitely interested in ideas about insiderism, any solutions to it... but are you really at a point where you&amp;#x27;re against everything that the government does on the assumption that it&amp;#x27;s all going to Boris&amp;#x27; girlfriends?</text></item><item><author>lordnacho</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a good point, Labour did a bunch of PPI deals that didn&amp;#x27;t seem to benefit the public as much as the private collaborators. So it&amp;#x27;s not exclusive to one party, but the Conversatives have been in power for a fairly long time now.&lt;p&gt;Long term we need transparency from whoever is in charge.</text></item><item><author>dalbasal</author><text>The problem with this line of argument is that it applies to anything and everything done under the current conservative banner.&lt;p&gt;IE, Torrie&amp;#x2F;Boris corruption is the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; topic. Whether it&amp;#x27;s a British DARPA, new sewage plant, or change to the tax code, the only thing to say is &amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;They&amp;#x27;re corrupt. This is just another pilfering.&lt;/i&gt;&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m sympathetic to the focus on corruption. Corruption is bad. That said, I don&amp;#x27;t think the UK is at the point where everything is just corruption and nothing more. There &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; room to talk about things other than corruption too. Besides, this particular flavour of corruption is almost always present. Whether it&amp;#x27;s the VC&amp;#x27;s boyfriend, bank manager&amp;#x27;s mistress or political boys clubs. Insiders get insider access. I don&amp;#x27;t like it either, but where&amp;#x2F;when is this &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the case? It&amp;#x27;s not a coincidence that so many of your (or american) parliamentarians went to school together?&lt;p&gt;I am sure knowing people at DARPA, being married to a general or whatever is a big help too.&lt;p&gt;Americans are worse than you guys on these fronts, and they&amp;#x27;re not the worst either.</text></item><item><author>grey-area</author><text>For those doubting the above, here is an example from the recent past of corruption from the Prime Minister, paying his lover with public funds:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;metro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;10000-grant-given-boris-johnsons-friend-jennifer-arcuri-appropriate-11020662&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;metro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;10000-grant-given-boris-johns...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>madaxe_again</author><text>That’s nice, but this isn’t what this will be about. This will be a means of funnelling cash to party donors without oversight, nothing more. Hence the FOI exception.&lt;p&gt;I mean, just look at how they’ve fared in the last 18 months alone - how many unaccountable tens of billions  did they pay out to their donors?&lt;p&gt;I had Tory ministers’ children approaching me about putting together business plans to help them get covid grants - same crowd who I used to help with R&amp;amp;D grants, which were also used to get high net worth individuals with money of dubious origin into the country. I  anticipate I’ll be hearing from them again.&lt;p&gt;This kind of funding will not develop anything but the wealth divide.</text></item><item><author>oli5679</author><text>The USA&amp;#x27;s DARPA program funded important research into&lt;p&gt;- The internet&lt;p&gt;- GPS&lt;p&gt;- Graphical user interface and mouse&lt;p&gt;- Onion routing&lt;p&gt;- Voice assistant&lt;p&gt;Hopefully this program executes well. There is clearly a big social payoff to betting big on credible people doing risky research with high potential impact.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.itpro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;technology&amp;#x2F;34730&amp;#x2F;10-amazing-darpa-inventions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.itpro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;technology&amp;#x2F;34730&amp;#x2F;10-amazing-darpa-in...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>JeanQuille</author><text>&amp;gt; Insiderism exists. It existed yesterday, last year.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m guessing you&amp;#x27;re not living in Britain? The last few years have been on a different scale entirely. We&amp;#x27;ve had to get used to a government that delivers contracts free of tender to shell companies owned by friends and donors that fail to deliver and don&amp;#x27;t even pretend to be legit (have you heard the one about the &amp;quot;ferry company&amp;quot; that thinks it&amp;#x27;s a takeaway restaurant?), while on the other hand openly jeering and mocking such causes as health worker pay.&lt;p&gt;In such light, tell me how you would expect &amp;quot;New project, £X hundred million initial fund, will use novel legislation to remove public oversight&amp;quot; to be received. It&amp;#x27;s not rocket science to work out that if you want people to be grateful instead of angry and you&amp;#x27;re a cabinet with a documented history of lying and corruption, just remove the last clause.&lt;p&gt;I appreciate the faith in progress, but in honesty, our legs are being peed on from a high height while you&amp;#x27;re in here nobly suggesting it could be raining.</text></comment>
<story><title>UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI</title><url>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/secrecy-for-high-risk-tech-research-agency-aria-h72lql80k</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dalbasal</author><text>Sure, corruption and insiderism is an important topic in its own right.&lt;p&gt;Up and down this thread though, it seems that British HNers are insisting that it&amp;#x27;s the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; topic. IE, they&amp;#x27;re against this agency (and presumably everything else that spends money in any way) because corruption.&lt;p&gt;Is this true for roads? No new schools, parks or research agencies until corruption is gone? It seems over the top to me. The &amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;Boris&amp;#x27; girlfriend gets a £100k grant&lt;/i&gt;&amp;quot; storyline is salacious, but I don&amp;#x27;t think it&amp;#x27;s unusual. Insiderism exists. It existed yesterday, last year. I&amp;#x27;m sure Winston Churchill&amp;#x27;s girlfriend also did well out of the deal. c&amp;#x27;est la vie&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m definitely interested in ideas about insiderism, any solutions to it... but are you really at a point where you&amp;#x27;re against everything that the government does on the assumption that it&amp;#x27;s all going to Boris&amp;#x27; girlfriends?</text></item><item><author>lordnacho</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a good point, Labour did a bunch of PPI deals that didn&amp;#x27;t seem to benefit the public as much as the private collaborators. So it&amp;#x27;s not exclusive to one party, but the Conversatives have been in power for a fairly long time now.&lt;p&gt;Long term we need transparency from whoever is in charge.</text></item><item><author>dalbasal</author><text>The problem with this line of argument is that it applies to anything and everything done under the current conservative banner.&lt;p&gt;IE, Torrie&amp;#x2F;Boris corruption is the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; topic. Whether it&amp;#x27;s a British DARPA, new sewage plant, or change to the tax code, the only thing to say is &amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;They&amp;#x27;re corrupt. This is just another pilfering.&lt;/i&gt;&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m sympathetic to the focus on corruption. Corruption is bad. That said, I don&amp;#x27;t think the UK is at the point where everything is just corruption and nothing more. There &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; room to talk about things other than corruption too. Besides, this particular flavour of corruption is almost always present. Whether it&amp;#x27;s the VC&amp;#x27;s boyfriend, bank manager&amp;#x27;s mistress or political boys clubs. Insiders get insider access. I don&amp;#x27;t like it either, but where&amp;#x2F;when is this &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; the case? It&amp;#x27;s not a coincidence that so many of your (or american) parliamentarians went to school together?&lt;p&gt;I am sure knowing people at DARPA, being married to a general or whatever is a big help too.&lt;p&gt;Americans are worse than you guys on these fronts, and they&amp;#x27;re not the worst either.</text></item><item><author>grey-area</author><text>For those doubting the above, here is an example from the recent past of corruption from the Prime Minister, paying his lover with public funds:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;metro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;10000-grant-given-boris-johnsons-friend-jennifer-arcuri-appropriate-11020662&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;metro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;31&amp;#x2F;10000-grant-given-boris-johns...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>madaxe_again</author><text>That’s nice, but this isn’t what this will be about. This will be a means of funnelling cash to party donors without oversight, nothing more. Hence the FOI exception.&lt;p&gt;I mean, just look at how they’ve fared in the last 18 months alone - how many unaccountable tens of billions  did they pay out to their donors?&lt;p&gt;I had Tory ministers’ children approaching me about putting together business plans to help them get covid grants - same crowd who I used to help with R&amp;amp;D grants, which were also used to get high net worth individuals with money of dubious origin into the country. I  anticipate I’ll be hearing from them again.&lt;p&gt;This kind of funding will not develop anything but the wealth divide.</text></item><item><author>oli5679</author><text>The USA&amp;#x27;s DARPA program funded important research into&lt;p&gt;- The internet&lt;p&gt;- GPS&lt;p&gt;- Graphical user interface and mouse&lt;p&gt;- Onion routing&lt;p&gt;- Voice assistant&lt;p&gt;Hopefully this program executes well. There is clearly a big social payoff to betting big on credible people doing risky research with high potential impact.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.itpro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;technology&amp;#x2F;34730&amp;#x2F;10-amazing-darpa-inventions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.itpro.co.uk&amp;#x2F;technology&amp;#x2F;34730&amp;#x2F;10-amazing-darpa-in...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Jochim</author><text>&amp;gt; It existed yesterday, last year. I&amp;#x27;m sure Winston Churchill&amp;#x27;s girlfriend also did well out of the deal. c&amp;#x27;est la vie.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s exactly this type of dismissal that allows this level of corruption to fester. It was unacceptable yesterday and it still is today. The point is to try and do something about it rather than sit back while they make it harder to punish because &amp;quot;it&amp;#x27;s already a problem&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;A research fund where the public will be forbidden from scrutinising the spending of people who are known to be corrupt is not comparable to a public park.</text></comment>