<story><title>Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first &apos;Full Self-Driving&apos; fatality</title><url>https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ra7</author><text>As I said in another comment, these two were idiots driving drunk. Let&amp;#x27;s get that out of the way.&lt;p&gt;The bigger issue here is how this deniability is all too convenient for Tesla. The process goes like this:&lt;p&gt;1. Ship a clearly half baked system called &amp;quot;Full Self Driving&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;2. Require driver&amp;#x27;s hands on the wheel at all times.&lt;p&gt;3. Be &lt;i&gt;extremely non-transparent&lt;/i&gt; about your system&amp;#x27;s safety. Tesla&amp;#x27;s crash reports in the public NHTSA database contains absolutely no details. Everything is redacted, we can&amp;#x27;t even know if the crash happened with FSD or with plain old Autopilot [1]. This is in stark contrast to the reports filed by driverless companies like Waymo and Cruise to the CA DMV [2], which Tesla refuses to do.&lt;p&gt;Also publish a &amp;quot;safety report&amp;quot; that&amp;#x27;s entirely marketing BS, which doesn&amp;#x27;t control for many factors (highway vs city streets, geography, time of day, age of cars, safety features, demographics) and hence is not apples-to-apples. Claim it&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;safer than humans&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nhtsa.gov&amp;#x2F;laws-regulations&amp;#x2F;standing-general-order-crash-reporting#data&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nhtsa.gov&amp;#x2F;laws-regulations&amp;#x2F;standing-general-orde...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicles&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicle-collision-reports&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;auto...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;4. When an accident happens, just say it&amp;#x27;s the driver&amp;#x27;s fault and that they should&amp;#x27;ve known it&amp;#x27;s just an L2 system.&lt;p&gt;5. Tweet about FSD vN+1 that&amp;#x27;s going to totally bring Full Self Driving by end of the year.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>basisword</author><text>It should be illegal for them to call it full self drive. It&amp;#x27;s 100% false advertising not to mention the &amp;#x27;danger&amp;#x27; that people will assume it is what it says it is.</text></comment>
<story><title>Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first &apos;Full Self-Driving&apos; fatality</title><url>https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2024/tesla-full-self-driving-fatal-crash/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ra7</author><text>As I said in another comment, these two were idiots driving drunk. Let&amp;#x27;s get that out of the way.&lt;p&gt;The bigger issue here is how this deniability is all too convenient for Tesla. The process goes like this:&lt;p&gt;1. Ship a clearly half baked system called &amp;quot;Full Self Driving&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;2. Require driver&amp;#x27;s hands on the wheel at all times.&lt;p&gt;3. Be &lt;i&gt;extremely non-transparent&lt;/i&gt; about your system&amp;#x27;s safety. Tesla&amp;#x27;s crash reports in the public NHTSA database contains absolutely no details. Everything is redacted, we can&amp;#x27;t even know if the crash happened with FSD or with plain old Autopilot [1]. This is in stark contrast to the reports filed by driverless companies like Waymo and Cruise to the CA DMV [2], which Tesla refuses to do.&lt;p&gt;Also publish a &amp;quot;safety report&amp;quot; that&amp;#x27;s entirely marketing BS, which doesn&amp;#x27;t control for many factors (highway vs city streets, geography, time of day, age of cars, safety features, demographics) and hence is not apples-to-apples. Claim it&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;safer than humans&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nhtsa.gov&amp;#x2F;laws-regulations&amp;#x2F;standing-general-order-crash-reporting#data&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nhtsa.gov&amp;#x2F;laws-regulations&amp;#x2F;standing-general-orde...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicles&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicle-collision-reports&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;auto...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;4. When an accident happens, just say it&amp;#x27;s the driver&amp;#x27;s fault and that they should&amp;#x27;ve known it&amp;#x27;s just an L2 system.&lt;p&gt;5. Tweet about FSD vN+1 that&amp;#x27;s going to totally bring Full Self Driving by end of the year.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>EA-3167</author><text>I think the quote from the article really sums it up in plain language, and the argument Musk presents should be familiar to anyone here, who&amp;#x27;s heard the &amp;quot;Robots &amp;gt; Humans in a car&amp;quot; argument.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; “Regardless of how drunk Hans was, Musk has claimed that this car can drive itself and is essentially better than a human,” Bass said. “We were sold a false sense of security.”</text></comment>