<story><title>Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/electric-buses-are-hurting-the-oil-industry</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>freddie_mercury</author><text>The OP was talking about China. China is bigger than the continental US. I think the persistent myth about the US&amp;#x27;s size being some unique problem doesn&amp;#x27;t explain much.&lt;p&gt;What&amp;#x27;s more, if you think of the EU as a comparison for the US, with the individual counties as analogues for US states, it seems to explain even less. Belgium and Massachusetts are the same size but over has much better transit options than the other.</text></item><item><author>abakker</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t know if it really proves anything and it might be OT from your point, but, the confounding variable is that in the US - especially outside of the major urban areas -  &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt; is just very far away in terms of miles. Lacking a car, you can expect life to be very difficult. there are still plenty of places in the US where the range of a tesla might be a borderline problem week-to-week. (though probably not as often as people think and if you plan well)&lt;p&gt;My casual observation is that smaller countries just have a lot more good options when it comes to transit because the total distances are much smaller.</text></item><item><author>danans</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level.&lt;p&gt;Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don&amp;#x27;t seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation and developing renewable generation - like those massive offshore turbines in the North Sea, or the more comprehensive EV charging networks.&lt;p&gt;Again, they seem to have stronger incentives: high gas&amp;#x2F;petrol prices, higher population density, tense relations with Russia - their big petroleum and natural gas supplier, and the desire to gain an advantage in clean energy technology while the US is seemingly regressing.&lt;p&gt;Perhaps states that have taken the problem seriously - wind in Texas, Iowa, EVs in CA, WA, NY, will carry the torch for the US without the Federal government&amp;#x27;s support.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>abakker</author><text>In 2015, Belgium had a Population density of 363people&amp;#x2F;Km^2. Massachusetts in 2015 had 336 people&amp;#x2F;KM^2. So, pretty close. The difference is that Belgium has a much more uniform population distribution vs Massachusetts.&lt;p&gt;Secondarily, Belgium can define it&amp;#x27;s own national policy, while MA must compromise with the rest of the country, including CA, WY, MT, and NY, all of which have very different economic and practical concerns.&lt;p&gt;The US&amp;#x27;s size is not a unique problem, but, it is &lt;i&gt;a&lt;/i&gt; problem, and the governmental structure we have chosen does pose some unique problems.</text></comment>
<story><title>Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-23/electric-buses-are-hurting-the-oil-industry</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>freddie_mercury</author><text>The OP was talking about China. China is bigger than the continental US. I think the persistent myth about the US&amp;#x27;s size being some unique problem doesn&amp;#x27;t explain much.&lt;p&gt;What&amp;#x27;s more, if you think of the EU as a comparison for the US, with the individual counties as analogues for US states, it seems to explain even less. Belgium and Massachusetts are the same size but over has much better transit options than the other.</text></item><item><author>abakker</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t know if it really proves anything and it might be OT from your point, but, the confounding variable is that in the US - especially outside of the major urban areas -  &lt;i&gt;everything&lt;/i&gt; is just very far away in terms of miles. Lacking a car, you can expect life to be very difficult. there are still plenty of places in the US where the range of a tesla might be a borderline problem week-to-week. (though probably not as often as people think and if you plan well)&lt;p&gt;My casual observation is that smaller countries just have a lot more good options when it comes to transit because the total distances are much smaller.</text></item><item><author>danans</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s a strange shift in affairs that China appears to have the greatest incentives (urban pollution, petroleum imports) today to advance clean transportation and energy while the US has stalled or moved backward, at least the Federal level.&lt;p&gt;Western European countries, for whom fossil fuels don&amp;#x27;t seem to be an identity politics issue like in the US, are also making more progress in electrifying their transportation and developing renewable generation - like those massive offshore turbines in the North Sea, or the more comprehensive EV charging networks.&lt;p&gt;Again, they seem to have stronger incentives: high gas&amp;#x2F;petrol prices, higher population density, tense relations with Russia - their big petroleum and natural gas supplier, and the desire to gain an advantage in clean energy technology while the US is seemingly regressing.&lt;p&gt;Perhaps states that have taken the problem seriously - wind in Texas, Iowa, EVs in CA, WA, NY, will carry the torch for the US without the Federal government&amp;#x27;s support.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>reissbaker</author><text>Sheer landmass is less critical for transit than population density. The US has a population density of 33 people per square kilometer; China is nearly five times more dense at 144 people per square kilometer. [1] This sparse population distribution is one of the causes of many of the difficult-to-solve infrastructure problems in the US, such as poor broadband rollout, poor transit, etc.&lt;p&gt;For what it&amp;#x27;s worth the United States is actually larger in landmass size than China: 9.834 million square km in the US vs. 9.597 million square km in China. But China has over quadruple the population.&lt;p&gt;1: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;List_of_countries_and_dependen...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>