<story><title>Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown</title><url>https://twitter.com/russ1mitchell/status/1438609715026530326</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ChicagoBoy11</author><text>I&amp;#x27;ve made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the  window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an important part of why these technologies have been so successful in flight, and examples like this illustrate how far off we are to something like that in cars. The issue of response time, too, is one we cant ignore, and it is certainly a far greater challenge in automobiles.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t have answers, but it does seem to me like we are not placing a premium enough on structuring this tech to optimize driver supervision over the driving behavior. Granted, the whole point is to one day NOT HAVE to supervise it all, but at this rate we&amp;#x27;re going to kill a lot of people until we get there.</text></item><item><author>ChrisKnott</author><text>Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11.&lt;p&gt;The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn.&lt;p&gt;Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have just continued forwards.&lt;p&gt;I am astounded that software capable of these outputs is allowed on the roads. When could crossing a junction then taking a hairpin right back across it, ever be the correct thing to do?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>_moof</author><text>Hi, aerospace software engineer and flight instructor here. I think you get shot down because the problems just aren&amp;#x27;t comparable. While I agree that there may be some philosophical transfer from aircraft automation, the environments are so radically different that it&amp;#x27;s difficult to imagine any substantial technological transfer.&lt;p&gt;Aircraft operate in an extremely controlled environment that is almost embarrassingly simple from an automation perspective. Almost everything is a straight line and the algorithms are intro control theory stuff. Lateral nav gets no more complicated than the difference between a great circle and a rhumb line.&lt;p&gt;The collision avoidance systems are cooperative and punt altogether on anything that isn&amp;#x27;t the ground or another transponder-equipped airplane. The software amounts to little more than &amp;quot;extract reported altitude from transponder reply, if abs(other altitude - my altitude) &amp;lt; threshold, warn pilot and&amp;#x2F;or set vertical speed.&amp;quot; It&amp;#x27;s a very long way from a machine learning system that has to identify literally any object in a scene filled with potentially thousands of targets. There&amp;#x27;s very little to worry about running into in the sky, and minimum safe altitudes are already mapped out for pretty much the entire world.&lt;p&gt;Any remaining risk is managed by centralized control and certification, which just isn&amp;#x27;t going to happen for cars. We aren&amp;#x27;t going to live in a world where every street has to be (the equivalent of) an FAA certified airport with controls to remove any uncertainty about what the vehicle will encounter when it gets there. Nor are we going to create a centralized traffic control system that provides guarantees you won&amp;#x27;t collide with other vehicles on a predetermined route.&lt;p&gt;So it&amp;#x27;s just a completely different world with completely different requirements. Are there things the aerospace world could teach other fields? Yeah, absolutely. Aerospace is pretty darn good at quality control. But the applications themselves are worlds apart.</text></comment>
<story><title>Video of Tesla FSD almost hitting pedestrian receives DMCA takedown</title><url>https://twitter.com/russ1mitchell/status/1438609715026530326</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ChicagoBoy11</author><text>I&amp;#x27;ve made this argument here a few times and am always shot down, but I think its important to highlight that the airline industry has an extremely robust history of automation and HCI in critical transportation scenarios and it seems to me that all the lessons that we have learned have been chucked out the  window with self-driving cars. Being able to effectively reason about what the automation is doing is such an important part of why these technologies have been so successful in flight, and examples like this illustrate how far off we are to something like that in cars. The issue of response time, too, is one we cant ignore, and it is certainly a far greater challenge in automobiles.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t have answers, but it does seem to me like we are not placing a premium enough on structuring this tech to optimize driver supervision over the driving behavior. Granted, the whole point is to one day NOT HAVE to supervise it all, but at this rate we&amp;#x27;re going to kill a lot of people until we get there.</text></item><item><author>ChrisKnott</author><text>Maximise the video and watch the left hand HUD pane from 0:10 to 0:11.&lt;p&gt;The dotted black line coming from the front of the car (which I am assuming is the intended route) quickly snaps from straight ahead, to a hair pin right, to a normal right turn.&lt;p&gt;Ignoring the fact that the right turn happened to be into a pedestrian crossing with people on it - what was the car even trying to do? The sat-nav shows it should have just continued forwards.&lt;p&gt;I am astounded that software capable of these outputs is allowed on the roads. When could crossing a junction then taking a hairpin right back across it, ever be the correct thing to do?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rtkwe</author><text>Cars are vastly more complex to do navigation for than planes too so we need to be even more careful when making auto autos. Plane autopilots are basically dealing with just the physical mechanics of flying the plane which while complex are quite predictable and modellable. All of the obstacle avoidance and collision avoidance takes place outside of autopilots through ATC and the routes are known and for most purposes completely devoid of any obstacles.&lt;p&gt;Cars have a vastly harder job because they&amp;#x27;re navigating through an environment that is orders of magnitude more complex because there are other moving objects to deal with.</text></comment>