<story><title>Misunderstanding about the details of how Apply Pay works</title><url>https://birchtree.me/blog/digital-wallets-and-the-only-apple-pay-does-this-mythology/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>lxgr</author><text>&amp;gt; But what is Apple and Google&amp;#x27;s special proprietary sauce then?&lt;p&gt;There isn&amp;#x27;t any. Many banks across the world offer their own HCE wallets, but these only run on Android (Apple simply doesn&amp;#x27;t offer the necessary APIs, although that&amp;#x27;s now changing in the EU).&lt;p&gt;What does matter a lot are defaults: You can only have one default Visa, Mastercard etc. wallet per device (that you don&amp;#x27;t need to specifically need to open before tapping your phone), so Google Pay has a huge advantage there, since it supports cards by many banks and not just one as would be the case for an issuer HCE wallet.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; However, I&amp;#x27;m sometimes under the impression that Apple&amp;#x2F;Google take on the role of a payment gateway or a payment method themselves.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t. They&amp;#x27;re involved in mediating the initial setup of a new card on a given device, but aren&amp;#x27;t part of the actual transaction flow at all (at the POS, in any case).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Moreover, I noticed that some merchants refuse my payment when I use e.g. Google Pay with my Amex instead of my MasterCard.&lt;p&gt;The underlying card brand still needs to be accepted by the merchant. Unlike e.g. early Google Pay (or what it was called back then; I lost track) and some other solutions, modern-day Google Pay and Apple Pay aren&amp;#x27;t &amp;quot;proxy cards&amp;quot; (which can sometimes change the card brand, e.g. from Visa to Mastercard; an example of that would be Curve).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; it also seems payment terminals at the grocery store needed special support for the Apple&amp;#x2F;Google Pay apps.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t. Unless a given POS terminal is buggy, it&amp;#x27;ll work anywhere that otherwise accepts the underlying card scheme. The physical and logical protocols are exactly the same as for actual plastic cards and mostly indistinguishable to the terminal; actually breaking Apple Pay&amp;#x2F;Google Pay support needs a lot of destructive energy on the merchant&amp;#x27;s&amp;#x2F;PSP&amp;#x27;s side.&lt;p&gt;On the web it&amp;#x27;s a different story; explicit support by both the store website and payment service provider is needed there.</text></item><item><author>codethief</author><text>Can anyone ELI5 how Apple &amp;amp; Google Pay work in detail? I used to think they simply pass on my CC details to the merchant or the merchant&amp;#x27;s chosen payment gateway in one way or another (obfuscated or not), and the OP suggests the same. Moreover, I noticed that some merchants refuse my payment when I use e.g. Google Pay with my Amex instead of my MasterCard.&lt;p&gt;However, I&amp;#x27;m sometimes under the impression that Apple&amp;#x2F;Google take on the role of a payment gateway or a payment method themselves. After all, they collect all my transaction data, and it also seems payment terminals at the grocery store needed special support for the Apple&amp;#x2F;Google Pay apps. Interestingly, this comment[0] is saying the opposite, namely that at least Apple Pay is very much rooted in standards.&lt;p&gt;But what is Apple and Google&amp;#x27;s special proprietary sauce then? Why are these apps so hard&amp;#x2F;impossible to replace by open-source alternatives? Is it because only Apple&amp;#x2F;Google get full access to the NFC chips on iOS&amp;#x2F;Android?&lt;p&gt;[0]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=39845805&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=39845805&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>andylynch</author><text>This is underrated.  
Eg I have Garmin Pay on my watch.  It works anywhere Apple&amp;#x2F;google etc works, even though the merchants and quite possibly whoever set up their terminals have never heard of it.</text></comment>
<story><title>Misunderstanding about the details of how Apply Pay works</title><url>https://birchtree.me/blog/digital-wallets-and-the-only-apple-pay-does-this-mythology/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>lxgr</author><text>&amp;gt; But what is Apple and Google&amp;#x27;s special proprietary sauce then?&lt;p&gt;There isn&amp;#x27;t any. Many banks across the world offer their own HCE wallets, but these only run on Android (Apple simply doesn&amp;#x27;t offer the necessary APIs, although that&amp;#x27;s now changing in the EU).&lt;p&gt;What does matter a lot are defaults: You can only have one default Visa, Mastercard etc. wallet per device (that you don&amp;#x27;t need to specifically need to open before tapping your phone), so Google Pay has a huge advantage there, since it supports cards by many banks and not just one as would be the case for an issuer HCE wallet.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; However, I&amp;#x27;m sometimes under the impression that Apple&amp;#x2F;Google take on the role of a payment gateway or a payment method themselves.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t. They&amp;#x27;re involved in mediating the initial setup of a new card on a given device, but aren&amp;#x27;t part of the actual transaction flow at all (at the POS, in any case).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Moreover, I noticed that some merchants refuse my payment when I use e.g. Google Pay with my Amex instead of my MasterCard.&lt;p&gt;The underlying card brand still needs to be accepted by the merchant. Unlike e.g. early Google Pay (or what it was called back then; I lost track) and some other solutions, modern-day Google Pay and Apple Pay aren&amp;#x27;t &amp;quot;proxy cards&amp;quot; (which can sometimes change the card brand, e.g. from Visa to Mastercard; an example of that would be Curve).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; it also seems payment terminals at the grocery store needed special support for the Apple&amp;#x2F;Google Pay apps.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t. Unless a given POS terminal is buggy, it&amp;#x27;ll work anywhere that otherwise accepts the underlying card scheme. The physical and logical protocols are exactly the same as for actual plastic cards and mostly indistinguishable to the terminal; actually breaking Apple Pay&amp;#x2F;Google Pay support needs a lot of destructive energy on the merchant&amp;#x27;s&amp;#x2F;PSP&amp;#x27;s side.&lt;p&gt;On the web it&amp;#x27;s a different story; explicit support by both the store website and payment service provider is needed there.</text></item><item><author>codethief</author><text>Can anyone ELI5 how Apple &amp;amp; Google Pay work in detail? I used to think they simply pass on my CC details to the merchant or the merchant&amp;#x27;s chosen payment gateway in one way or another (obfuscated or not), and the OP suggests the same. Moreover, I noticed that some merchants refuse my payment when I use e.g. Google Pay with my Amex instead of my MasterCard.&lt;p&gt;However, I&amp;#x27;m sometimes under the impression that Apple&amp;#x2F;Google take on the role of a payment gateway or a payment method themselves. After all, they collect all my transaction data, and it also seems payment terminals at the grocery store needed special support for the Apple&amp;#x2F;Google Pay apps. Interestingly, this comment[0] is saying the opposite, namely that at least Apple Pay is very much rooted in standards.&lt;p&gt;But what is Apple and Google&amp;#x27;s special proprietary sauce then? Why are these apps so hard&amp;#x2F;impossible to replace by open-source alternatives? Is it because only Apple&amp;#x2F;Google get full access to the NFC chips on iOS&amp;#x2F;Android?&lt;p&gt;[0]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=39845805&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=39845805&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>codethief</author><text>&amp;gt; Google Pay has a huge advantage there, since it supports cards by many banks and not just one as would be the case for an issuer HCE wallet.&lt;p&gt;Ah, so it&amp;#x27;s the integration with issuer banks in the background that requires a lot of effort. That makes sense!&lt;p&gt;Thanks so much for enlightening me! :)</text></comment>