<story><title>BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough</title><url>https://www.projectgus.com/2022/06/bmw-f-series-gear-selector-part-two-breakthrough/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>rconti</author><text>Yup. Bad Things can happen:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;money.cnn.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;20&amp;#x2F;autos&amp;#x2F;jeep-recall-anton-yelchin&amp;#x2F;index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;money.cnn.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;20&amp;#x2F;autos&amp;#x2F;jeep-recall-anton-yel...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can&amp;#x27;t I tell that my turn signal is on by &amp;#x27;feel&amp;#x27;? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light?&lt;p&gt;I have an E70 X5 with the &amp;quot;new style&amp;quot; transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column. Thankfully most cars seem to have stuck with the &amp;quot;forward = reverse&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Back=drive&amp;quot; convention; confusing as it sounds, at least it replicates a move from neutral on an automatic with a traditional PRNDL lever.&lt;p&gt;Both cars also have stateless signals.  The E90 and newer BMWs seem to have indicator clicks that are almost inaudible, and in almost every car I drive, the indicator lights are hidden behind the steering wheel, so you never know if the indicator has cancelled or not. On my &amp;quot;bad old world&amp;quot; BMW, at least you can feel the lever click down when it cancels.&lt;p&gt;The Tesla also has a stateless signal switch, but it doesn&amp;#x27;t give me the same issues. I think the audible &amp;quot;click&amp;quot; is a lot more distinctive or something. Alas, the green flashy light is way over in the middle of the car instead of conveniently hidden behind the rim of the steering wheel.</text></item><item><author>phkahler</author><text>A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is room for debate about how far they need to go with that. It&amp;#x27;s common to have all drivetrain components on a dedicated CAN bus with a gateway between it and other stuff. Your infotainment system is not going to put the car in Park regardless of what you run on it.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>dicknuckle</author><text>As an aside, I was able to change the audible level of the turn signals on my 2020 Toyota with their Techstream software (from the usual shady sources) and a Tactrix cable I originally bought for flashing my Subaru ECU. Maybe you can do the same for your vehicles with their dedicated software.</text></comment>
<story><title>BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough</title><url>https://www.projectgus.com/2022/06/bmw-f-series-gear-selector-part-two-breakthrough/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>rconti</author><text>Yup. Bad Things can happen:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;money.cnn.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;20&amp;#x2F;autos&amp;#x2F;jeep-recall-anton-yelchin&amp;#x2F;index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;money.cnn.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;20&amp;#x2F;autos&amp;#x2F;jeep-recall-anton-yel...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can&amp;#x27;t I tell that my turn signal is on by &amp;#x27;feel&amp;#x27;? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light?&lt;p&gt;I have an E70 X5 with the &amp;quot;new style&amp;quot; transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column. Thankfully most cars seem to have stuck with the &amp;quot;forward = reverse&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;Back=drive&amp;quot; convention; confusing as it sounds, at least it replicates a move from neutral on an automatic with a traditional PRNDL lever.&lt;p&gt;Both cars also have stateless signals.  The E90 and newer BMWs seem to have indicator clicks that are almost inaudible, and in almost every car I drive, the indicator lights are hidden behind the steering wheel, so you never know if the indicator has cancelled or not. On my &amp;quot;bad old world&amp;quot; BMW, at least you can feel the lever click down when it cancels.&lt;p&gt;The Tesla also has a stateless signal switch, but it doesn&amp;#x27;t give me the same issues. I think the audible &amp;quot;click&amp;quot; is a lot more distinctive or something. Alas, the green flashy light is way over in the middle of the car instead of conveniently hidden behind the rim of the steering wheel.</text></item><item><author>phkahler</author><text>A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is room for debate about how far they need to go with that. It&amp;#x27;s common to have all drivetrain components on a dedicated CAN bus with a gateway between it and other stuff. Your infotainment system is not going to put the car in Park regardless of what you run on it.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>smilekzs</author><text>Fortunately, G20 onwards have returned to a mechanically latching turning signal stalk design.&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, ZN8&amp;#x2F;ZD8 Toyota GR86 &amp;#x2F; Subaru BRZ (the new ones!) have regressed to the dreaded mechanically momentary (non-latching) turning signal stalk design.</text></comment>