<story><title>North Texas citizens organize to monitor police with video cameras</title><url>http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Arlington-Residents-Police-the-Police-267423681.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>JoeAltmaier</author><text>Oh for pity&amp;#x27;s sake, follow a cop around some Saturday night downtown, before lecturing us on what a soft life a cop&amp;#x27;s job is. Deal with the belligerent drunks, entitled rich boys, teenagers with too much car and no sense. Enter a store that gave off a silent alarm, in the dark, all by yourself and tell me what a walk in the park it is.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Stand up against them&amp;quot;? See how lovely a world it is without them - what comes next is very much worse than what you&amp;#x27;re complaining about.&lt;p&gt;Cops deserve respect and deference, if only because they stand for public order and that deserves it.</text></item><item><author>omgtehblackbloc</author><text>&lt;i&gt;Being a cop is legitimately dangerous&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Not really, no.  It&amp;#x27;s just not that dangerous.  We imagine it must be dangerous, and so do cops themselves.  But you&amp;#x27;re a lot more likely to be killed as a garbage collector or airline pilot, or a construction worker, or plenty of other jobs.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s like with the &amp;quot;war on terror&amp;quot;.  The fear of danger is much more powerful than the danger itself.  And like with terrorism, the fear is actively promoted for political reasons.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;They do what everyone does, what has to be done for policing to be viable.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That seems like an argument against the department as a whole, not a justification for an individual&amp;#x27;s abuse.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Most of the people they deal with are lowlifes, lyres, cheaters.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Most of the people they deal with are ordinary innocent civilians whom they assume are &amp;quot;lowlifes&amp;quot; because they have been trained and conditioned to.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;That said, this following cops around only plays to the problem paradigm. It&amp;#x27;s harassment, like what paparazzi do. It&amp;#x27;s belligerent. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s valuable as a protest, but it isn&amp;#x27;t as solution.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is belligerent, and it is harassment, and it is protest.  And that&amp;#x27;s the point.  People with power do not voluntarily stop abusing it.  They continue until met with resistance - until they are forced to stop.&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately it&amp;#x27;s effectively suicide to physically force the cops to stop, but we should do everything we can short of that to stand up against them.  Standing up against the cops sets an example for others that we don&amp;#x27;t need to fear them, that they don&amp;#x27;t deserve respect and deference, and that we can do something directly to stop their abuse.</text></item><item><author>netcan</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t think reality is as clear cut as that. There is genuine complexity. Being a cop is legitimately dangerous, gun or no gun. A gun isn&amp;#x27;t an off switch. People can confront an armed cop and shooting doesn&amp;#x27;t always stop them.&lt;p&gt;There are also all sorts of rules that are learned on the job and aren&amp;#x27;t not in any manual. Ways for maintaining control and authority mostly. Many of these practices are unsanctioned and unofficial, but still essential for being able to do the job. Some things are both crucial and illegal.&lt;p&gt;Cops usually feel like when they get busted for being arrogant, bullying or outright violence that they are are victims of these situations. They do what everyone does, what has to be done for policing to be viable. Those pencil pushers with their removed perspective are making judgments about their irrelevant rules being broken.&lt;p&gt;They are under stress. Violence is a part of their days. Most of the people they deal with are lowlifes, lyres, cheaters. There is real stress. Real danger&lt;p&gt;That said, a lot of these practices aren&amp;#x27;t benign and they aren&amp;#x27;t inevitable. The police does genuinely attract many problematic people and it makes other. They get used to defending their authority and meet challenges to it with extreme responses. They develop a cops &amp;amp; robbers, us &amp;amp; them worldview that becomes their reality. More specifically cops, criminals and naive spectators, citizens &amp;amp; bureaucrats.&lt;p&gt;They develop a bullying mannerism.&lt;p&gt;Police manage to do their jobs without guns at all in many places. They deal with violent crime just like cops in the states. I&amp;#x27;m not saying this should be adopted by US department, but is proof that there are other ways of doing things.&lt;p&gt;I think lights good for the paradigm. But, whatever that light reveals needs to be dealt with. Maybe police modus operandi needs to changed. But, maybe the rulebook needs to change too. It can be dangerous trying to enforce the official rulebook after long periods where it has only been enforced selectively. Maybe the official way of doing things doesn&amp;#x27;t work.&lt;p&gt;That said, this following cops around only plays to the problem paradigm. It&amp;#x27;s harassment, like what paparazzi do. It&amp;#x27;s belligerent. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s valuable as a protest, but it isn&amp;#x27;t as solution.&lt;p&gt;What I think should happen in law enforcement is that everything should be recorded. Every interrogation. Every arrest. Every time a cop pulls you over.  This is all evidence and it should be part of every booking.&lt;p&gt;Hopefully that will make the need for this sort of thing go away.</text></item><item><author>ndarilek</author><text>I have a hard time swallowing police department rhetoric in these situations. The officer has a gun, and the unfortunate power to make &amp;quot;extra-legal&amp;quot; killings with it. They&amp;#x27;re safe. If they irresponsibly use that gun in an unsafe manner, like all the drunken NYPD officers who shoot people[0], then it absolutely is our or someone&amp;#x27;s responsibility to take matters into our own hands and monitor ourselves until we see that accountability. Relying on internal affairs&amp;#x2F;review commissions to provide that is a broken model.&lt;p&gt;Also, I know folks doing this locally, and have watched officers request that filmers stand at a safe distance. It&amp;#x27;s interesting to me how often &amp;quot;safe distance&amp;quot; corresponds with a) somewhere with a shitty view far away and b) a position where the filmer is significantly further away than a number of pedestrians or gawkers whose &amp;quot;safety&amp;quot; presumably isn&amp;#x27;t in dispute. I have good friends who were arrested for nothing more than filming, and they were often given confusing and contradictory orders by an officer who obviously felt he had the immediate situation well enough in hand to direct most of his attention ordering the filmer around. It happened almost 2 years ago, no charges were filed, and if this was a legitimate concern then I&amp;#x27;d really like to see some obstruction charges brought in the several local cases I&amp;#x27;ve seen of citizens arrested for filming.&lt;p&gt;I do agree that some of these groups&amp;#x27; strategies are a bit busted. I&amp;#x27;m familiar with the Peaceful Streets Project here in Austin, and sometimes the ragey&amp;#x2F;personal rhetoric got a bit overpowering. Then again, cops kill people, often under suspicious circumstances, and get away with it. Perhaps it is time for a bit of rage, and to make it personal.&lt;p&gt;0.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/brendan-conin-nypd-shooting-pelham-drunk_n_5247504.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;05&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;brendan-conin-nypd-...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>JshWright</author><text>&amp;gt; Cops deserve respect and deference, if only because they stand for public order and that deserves it.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m a firefighter&amp;#x2F;paramedic, and am very familiar with many of the scenarios you described. Many of my drinking buddies are cops, and I&amp;#x27;m very grateful that they have my back night after night.&lt;p&gt;That being said, I disagree completely with your statement that cops deserve respect simply because they &amp;#x27;stand for public order&amp;#x27;. There have been more than enough examples in recent history where cops have very clearly _not_ been acting in the public&amp;#x27;s interest, and I think it&amp;#x27;s prudent for average citizens to be wary of cops. It&amp;#x27;s an unfortunate reality, but it&amp;#x27;s the culture that law enforcement has chosen to create.&lt;p&gt;Having had a handful of interactions with LEOs while &amp;#x27;off the clock&amp;#x27;, it really amazes me how different their attitude is from when I&amp;#x27;m in uniform.</text></comment>
<story><title>North Texas citizens organize to monitor police with video cameras</title><url>http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Arlington-Residents-Police-the-Police-267423681.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>JoeAltmaier</author><text>Oh for pity&amp;#x27;s sake, follow a cop around some Saturday night downtown, before lecturing us on what a soft life a cop&amp;#x27;s job is. Deal with the belligerent drunks, entitled rich boys, teenagers with too much car and no sense. Enter a store that gave off a silent alarm, in the dark, all by yourself and tell me what a walk in the park it is.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Stand up against them&amp;quot;? See how lovely a world it is without them - what comes next is very much worse than what you&amp;#x27;re complaining about.&lt;p&gt;Cops deserve respect and deference, if only because they stand for public order and that deserves it.</text></item><item><author>omgtehblackbloc</author><text>&lt;i&gt;Being a cop is legitimately dangerous&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Not really, no.  It&amp;#x27;s just not that dangerous.  We imagine it must be dangerous, and so do cops themselves.  But you&amp;#x27;re a lot more likely to be killed as a garbage collector or airline pilot, or a construction worker, or plenty of other jobs.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s like with the &amp;quot;war on terror&amp;quot;.  The fear of danger is much more powerful than the danger itself.  And like with terrorism, the fear is actively promoted for political reasons.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;They do what everyone does, what has to be done for policing to be viable.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That seems like an argument against the department as a whole, not a justification for an individual&amp;#x27;s abuse.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Most of the people they deal with are lowlifes, lyres, cheaters.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Most of the people they deal with are ordinary innocent civilians whom they assume are &amp;quot;lowlifes&amp;quot; because they have been trained and conditioned to.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;That said, this following cops around only plays to the problem paradigm. It&amp;#x27;s harassment, like what paparazzi do. It&amp;#x27;s belligerent. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s valuable as a protest, but it isn&amp;#x27;t as solution.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is belligerent, and it is harassment, and it is protest.  And that&amp;#x27;s the point.  People with power do not voluntarily stop abusing it.  They continue until met with resistance - until they are forced to stop.&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately it&amp;#x27;s effectively suicide to physically force the cops to stop, but we should do everything we can short of that to stand up against them.  Standing up against the cops sets an example for others that we don&amp;#x27;t need to fear them, that they don&amp;#x27;t deserve respect and deference, and that we can do something directly to stop their abuse.</text></item><item><author>netcan</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t think reality is as clear cut as that. There is genuine complexity. Being a cop is legitimately dangerous, gun or no gun. A gun isn&amp;#x27;t an off switch. People can confront an armed cop and shooting doesn&amp;#x27;t always stop them.&lt;p&gt;There are also all sorts of rules that are learned on the job and aren&amp;#x27;t not in any manual. Ways for maintaining control and authority mostly. Many of these practices are unsanctioned and unofficial, but still essential for being able to do the job. Some things are both crucial and illegal.&lt;p&gt;Cops usually feel like when they get busted for being arrogant, bullying or outright violence that they are are victims of these situations. They do what everyone does, what has to be done for policing to be viable. Those pencil pushers with their removed perspective are making judgments about their irrelevant rules being broken.&lt;p&gt;They are under stress. Violence is a part of their days. Most of the people they deal with are lowlifes, lyres, cheaters. There is real stress. Real danger&lt;p&gt;That said, a lot of these practices aren&amp;#x27;t benign and they aren&amp;#x27;t inevitable. The police does genuinely attract many problematic people and it makes other. They get used to defending their authority and meet challenges to it with extreme responses. They develop a cops &amp;amp; robbers, us &amp;amp; them worldview that becomes their reality. More specifically cops, criminals and naive spectators, citizens &amp;amp; bureaucrats.&lt;p&gt;They develop a bullying mannerism.&lt;p&gt;Police manage to do their jobs without guns at all in many places. They deal with violent crime just like cops in the states. I&amp;#x27;m not saying this should be adopted by US department, but is proof that there are other ways of doing things.&lt;p&gt;I think lights good for the paradigm. But, whatever that light reveals needs to be dealt with. Maybe police modus operandi needs to changed. But, maybe the rulebook needs to change too. It can be dangerous trying to enforce the official rulebook after long periods where it has only been enforced selectively. Maybe the official way of doing things doesn&amp;#x27;t work.&lt;p&gt;That said, this following cops around only plays to the problem paradigm. It&amp;#x27;s harassment, like what paparazzi do. It&amp;#x27;s belligerent. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s valuable as a protest, but it isn&amp;#x27;t as solution.&lt;p&gt;What I think should happen in law enforcement is that everything should be recorded. Every interrogation. Every arrest. Every time a cop pulls you over.  This is all evidence and it should be part of every booking.&lt;p&gt;Hopefully that will make the need for this sort of thing go away.</text></item><item><author>ndarilek</author><text>I have a hard time swallowing police department rhetoric in these situations. The officer has a gun, and the unfortunate power to make &amp;quot;extra-legal&amp;quot; killings with it. They&amp;#x27;re safe. If they irresponsibly use that gun in an unsafe manner, like all the drunken NYPD officers who shoot people[0], then it absolutely is our or someone&amp;#x27;s responsibility to take matters into our own hands and monitor ourselves until we see that accountability. Relying on internal affairs&amp;#x2F;review commissions to provide that is a broken model.&lt;p&gt;Also, I know folks doing this locally, and have watched officers request that filmers stand at a safe distance. It&amp;#x27;s interesting to me how often &amp;quot;safe distance&amp;quot; corresponds with a) somewhere with a shitty view far away and b) a position where the filmer is significantly further away than a number of pedestrians or gawkers whose &amp;quot;safety&amp;quot; presumably isn&amp;#x27;t in dispute. I have good friends who were arrested for nothing more than filming, and they were often given confusing and contradictory orders by an officer who obviously felt he had the immediate situation well enough in hand to direct most of his attention ordering the filmer around. It happened almost 2 years ago, no charges were filed, and if this was a legitimate concern then I&amp;#x27;d really like to see some obstruction charges brought in the several local cases I&amp;#x27;ve seen of citizens arrested for filming.&lt;p&gt;I do agree that some of these groups&amp;#x27; strategies are a bit busted. I&amp;#x27;m familiar with the Peaceful Streets Project here in Austin, and sometimes the ragey&amp;#x2F;personal rhetoric got a bit overpowering. Then again, cops kill people, often under suspicious circumstances, and get away with it. Perhaps it is time for a bit of rage, and to make it personal.&lt;p&gt;0.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/01/brendan-conin-nypd-shooting-pelham-drunk_n_5247504.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;05&amp;#x2F;01&amp;#x2F;brendan-conin-nypd-...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>parfe</author><text>Pizza delivery guys have a far more dangerous job than police.  Drive to a location chosen by a stranger who knows you will show up with cash, food, and a car which you will willingly exit. And all in 30 minutes or less.  And they deal with the same types of obnoxious people as police, who you think deserve automatic respect for it.&lt;p&gt;Policing doesn&amp;#x27;t crack the top 10 BLS list of most dangerous jobs.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.forbes.com&amp;#x2F;sites&amp;#x2F;jacquelynsmith&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;08&amp;#x2F;22&amp;#x2F;americ...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>