<story><title>Denver voters consider next frontier in decriminalizing drugs: magic mushrooms</title><url>https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-denver-magic-mushrooms-20190506-story.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Misdicorl</author><text>Yes, absolutely. There is a significant population who will not do something if its illegal. Full stop.</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>Is illegality even &lt;i&gt;A&lt;/i&gt; way to prevent addiction? Because most of the data in the US indicates no correlation between enforcement and addiction rates. We say we enforce drug laws for people&amp;#x27;s protection, catch them with drugs, throw them in jail and say, &amp;quot;see? this is what happens when you take drugs.&amp;quot; The discussion around Denver&amp;#x27;s laws has often been on the assumption that before Colorado legalized marijuana, no one had access to marijuana. They throw around statistics with out before &amp;#x2F; after comparisons, or without full context. One famous example was a guy who drove into a parked cop car - a test confirmed that some time in the last 6 months he had smoked marijuana. Nevermind that his BAC was astronomical. Anti-marijuana headlines for days on that one.</text></item><item><author>beat</author><text>A substantial fraction of people become addicted to opiates when they are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; freely available, too. Which begs the question... is &lt;i&gt;addiction&lt;/i&gt; the problem? Or are the problems consequences of restricted availability?&lt;p&gt;To put it another way... if heroin were legalized tomorrow, would you start shooting up? Is illegality the best (or only) way to prevent addiction? Look at tobacco. It&amp;#x27;s legal. Most people don&amp;#x27;t use it, because it&amp;#x27;s addictive and dangerous, and usage rates have dropped considerably due to social pressures and awareness campaigns.&lt;p&gt;When proposing (or defending) a solution, make sure you ask yourself if it actually solves the problem.</text></item><item><author>ummonk</author><text>Out of curiosity, would you say the same thing about opium poppy? (Serious question, not a gotcha; opium seems to have a much clearer harmful and addictive impact and it seems to be very difficult to prevent a substantial fraction of people from getting addicted to it when it is freely available; would you prioritize principle or practicality in the case of opium?)</text></item><item><author>samcday</author><text>&amp;quot;I’m a different guy. I’m fun to be around. Once I couldn’t even cry. Now I can.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;This really punched me in the feels.&lt;p&gt;It also sucks that Justin preferred not to share his last name for fear of retribution for possessing some fungus that occurs naturally in the wild.&lt;p&gt;Kinda reminds me of the veterans in the US who have been trying to lobby the VA to stop being jerks about cannabis. They say it helps with their PTSD. Currently we don&amp;#x27;t have a lot of scientific certainty on whether it actually &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; help or not because of the lack of research. But even putting that aside, it&amp;#x27;s still kinda absurd that we dictate which naturally growing plants people are allowed to possess &amp;#x2F; cultivate &amp;#x2F; smoke &amp;#x2F; ingest &amp;#x2F; whatever.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>Maybe, but there&amp;#x27;s clearly and consistently no correlation between &lt;i&gt;enforcing&lt;/i&gt; said illegality and addiction: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.pewtrusts.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;research-and-analysis&amp;#x2F;issue-briefs&amp;#x2F;2018&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;more-imprisonment-does-not-reduce-state-drug-problems&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.pewtrusts.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;research-and-analysis&amp;#x2F;issue-bri...&lt;/a&gt;. In both of the specific cases mentioned in the article and my comment, it&amp;#x27;s a lower jurisdiction stopping enforcement of a higher jurisdiction&amp;#x27;s laws. Marijuana is still illegal in Colorado, but everyone knows that the TSA are the only ones enforcing it.&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#x27;s also the fact that a lot of black-market stuff only ever happens &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; it&amp;#x27;s illegal, which is why countries that decriminalize prostitution and take a treat-instead-of-prosecute approach tend to see benefits in addition to fewer people in jail for the associated crimes. I know there are people that won&amp;#x27;t break the law, but there are also people that make beaucoup bucks breaking the law because they&amp;#x27;re good at it. Which one wins out? No idea. Not sure if there&amp;#x27;s a way to get data on that beyond the enforcement vs. addiction studies.</text></comment>
<story><title>Denver voters consider next frontier in decriminalizing drugs: magic mushrooms</title><url>https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-denver-magic-mushrooms-20190506-story.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Misdicorl</author><text>Yes, absolutely. There is a significant population who will not do something if its illegal. Full stop.</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>Is illegality even &lt;i&gt;A&lt;/i&gt; way to prevent addiction? Because most of the data in the US indicates no correlation between enforcement and addiction rates. We say we enforce drug laws for people&amp;#x27;s protection, catch them with drugs, throw them in jail and say, &amp;quot;see? this is what happens when you take drugs.&amp;quot; The discussion around Denver&amp;#x27;s laws has often been on the assumption that before Colorado legalized marijuana, no one had access to marijuana. They throw around statistics with out before &amp;#x2F; after comparisons, or without full context. One famous example was a guy who drove into a parked cop car - a test confirmed that some time in the last 6 months he had smoked marijuana. Nevermind that his BAC was astronomical. Anti-marijuana headlines for days on that one.</text></item><item><author>beat</author><text>A substantial fraction of people become addicted to opiates when they are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; freely available, too. Which begs the question... is &lt;i&gt;addiction&lt;/i&gt; the problem? Or are the problems consequences of restricted availability?&lt;p&gt;To put it another way... if heroin were legalized tomorrow, would you start shooting up? Is illegality the best (or only) way to prevent addiction? Look at tobacco. It&amp;#x27;s legal. Most people don&amp;#x27;t use it, because it&amp;#x27;s addictive and dangerous, and usage rates have dropped considerably due to social pressures and awareness campaigns.&lt;p&gt;When proposing (or defending) a solution, make sure you ask yourself if it actually solves the problem.</text></item><item><author>ummonk</author><text>Out of curiosity, would you say the same thing about opium poppy? (Serious question, not a gotcha; opium seems to have a much clearer harmful and addictive impact and it seems to be very difficult to prevent a substantial fraction of people from getting addicted to it when it is freely available; would you prioritize principle or practicality in the case of opium?)</text></item><item><author>samcday</author><text>&amp;quot;I’m a different guy. I’m fun to be around. Once I couldn’t even cry. Now I can.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;This really punched me in the feels.&lt;p&gt;It also sucks that Justin preferred not to share his last name for fear of retribution for possessing some fungus that occurs naturally in the wild.&lt;p&gt;Kinda reminds me of the veterans in the US who have been trying to lobby the VA to stop being jerks about cannabis. They say it helps with their PTSD. Currently we don&amp;#x27;t have a lot of scientific certainty on whether it actually &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; help or not because of the lack of research. But even putting that aside, it&amp;#x27;s still kinda absurd that we dictate which naturally growing plants people are allowed to possess &amp;#x2F; cultivate &amp;#x2F; smoke &amp;#x2F; ingest &amp;#x2F; whatever.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>mijamo</author><text>There is also a population that will do it BECAUSE it is illegal.&lt;p&gt;And no data that I&amp;#x27;m aware actually points towards prohibition having significant effect.</text></comment>