<story><title>Writing a Unix clone in about a month</title><url>https://drewdevault.com/2024/05/24/2024-05-24-Bunnix.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>samatman</author><text>I was interested in Hare until I found this immensely self-defeating FAQ item: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;harelang.org&amp;#x2F;documentation&amp;#x2F;faq.html#will-hare-support-windows-or-macos&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;harelang.org&amp;#x2F;documentation&amp;#x2F;faq.html#will-hare-suppor...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;As a baseline, I support developers using whatever license they would like, and targeting whatever operating systems, indeed, writing &lt;i&gt;whatever&lt;/i&gt; code they would like in the process.&lt;p&gt;That doesn&amp;#x27;t make this specific policy a good idea. Even FSF, generally considered the most extreme (or, if you prefer, principled) exponents of the Free Software philosophy, support Windows and POSIX. They may grumble and call it Woe32, but Stallman has said some cogent things about how the fight for a world free of proprietary software is more readily advanced by making sure that Free Software projects run on proprietary systems.&lt;p&gt;They do at least license the library code under MPL, so merely using Hare doesn&amp;#x27;t lock you into a license.  But I wonder about the longevity of a language where the attitude toward 95+% of the desktop is &amp;quot;unsupported, don&amp;#x27;t ask questions on our forums, we don&amp;#x27;t want you here&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;Ironically, a Google search for &amp;quot;harelang repo&amp;quot; has as the first hit an unofficial macOs port, and the actual SourceHut repo doesn&amp;#x27;t show up in the first page of results.&lt;p&gt;Languages either snowball or fizzle out. I&amp;#x27;m typing this on a Mac, but I could pick up a Linux machine right now if I were of a mind to. But why would I invest in learning a language which imposes a purity test on developers, when even the FSF doesn&amp;#x27;t? A great deal of open source &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; free software gets written on Macs, and in fact, more than you might think on Windows as well.&lt;p&gt;From where I sit, what differentiates Hare from Odin and Zig, is just this attitude of purity and exclusion. I wish you all happy hacking, of course, and success. But I&amp;#x27;m pessimistic about the latter.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>kbolino</author><text>On the one hand, I can respect the authors for sticking to what they want to accomplish and not accommodating every demand.&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, that is hardly the only thing from the FAQ that raises one&amp;#x27;s eyebrows:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; we have no package manager and encourage less code reuse as a shared value&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; qbe generates slower code compared to LLVM, with the performance ranging from 25% to 75% the runtime performance of comparable LLVM-generated code&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Can I use multithreading in Hare? Probably not.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; So I need to implement hash tables myself? Indeed. Hash tables are a common data structure that many Hare programs will need to implement from scratch.&lt;p&gt;As it stands, this is definitely not a language designed for mass adoption. Which is fine, and at least they&amp;#x27;re upfront about it.</text></comment>
<story><title>Writing a Unix clone in about a month</title><url>https://drewdevault.com/2024/05/24/2024-05-24-Bunnix.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>samatman</author><text>I was interested in Hare until I found this immensely self-defeating FAQ item: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;harelang.org&amp;#x2F;documentation&amp;#x2F;faq.html#will-hare-support-windows-or-macos&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;harelang.org&amp;#x2F;documentation&amp;#x2F;faq.html#will-hare-suppor...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;As a baseline, I support developers using whatever license they would like, and targeting whatever operating systems, indeed, writing &lt;i&gt;whatever&lt;/i&gt; code they would like in the process.&lt;p&gt;That doesn&amp;#x27;t make this specific policy a good idea. Even FSF, generally considered the most extreme (or, if you prefer, principled) exponents of the Free Software philosophy, support Windows and POSIX. They may grumble and call it Woe32, but Stallman has said some cogent things about how the fight for a world free of proprietary software is more readily advanced by making sure that Free Software projects run on proprietary systems.&lt;p&gt;They do at least license the library code under MPL, so merely using Hare doesn&amp;#x27;t lock you into a license.  But I wonder about the longevity of a language where the attitude toward 95+% of the desktop is &amp;quot;unsupported, don&amp;#x27;t ask questions on our forums, we don&amp;#x27;t want you here&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;Ironically, a Google search for &amp;quot;harelang repo&amp;quot; has as the first hit an unofficial macOs port, and the actual SourceHut repo doesn&amp;#x27;t show up in the first page of results.&lt;p&gt;Languages either snowball or fizzle out. I&amp;#x27;m typing this on a Mac, but I could pick up a Linux machine right now if I were of a mind to. But why would I invest in learning a language which imposes a purity test on developers, when even the FSF doesn&amp;#x27;t? A great deal of open source &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; free software gets written on Macs, and in fact, more than you might think on Windows as well.&lt;p&gt;From where I sit, what differentiates Hare from Odin and Zig, is just this attitude of purity and exclusion. I wish you all happy hacking, of course, and success. But I&amp;#x27;m pessimistic about the latter.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>stonogo</author><text>Sounds like you and the Hare people have different definitions of success.  As for &amp;quot;languages either snowball or fizzle out,&amp;quot; I feel like that&amp;#x27;s pretty dismissive of a lot of languages that have been steadily marching on for decades even without this rockstar status.&lt;p&gt;Not every band has to hit the Billboard charts to be worth listening to.</text></comment>