<story><title>Blocking Kiwifarms</title><url>https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>danShumway</author><text>&amp;gt; It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.&lt;p&gt;This is exactly why dropping Kiwi Farms was the right decision. There is a difference between saying hateful things and doxing and harassing people with threats of violence.&lt;p&gt;We don&amp;#x27;t even need to dip into the endless debate about tolerating hate -- there&amp;#x27;s no level of ideological indirection here, Kiwi Farms was just very straightforwardly driving people offline with threats of physical harm and real-world harassment.</text></item><item><author>xupybd</author><text>Free speech is about giving people the freedom to say things I find disgusting. It&amp;#x27;s about giving each individual the choice to listen to what ever influence they wish. It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.</text></item><item><author>notatoad</author><text>&amp;gt;rather than free speech&lt;p&gt;i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a &amp;quot;free speech advocate&amp;quot; to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to &amp;quot;free speech&amp;quot;.  their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is.  if you &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been harming their free speech.  free speech is for &lt;i&gt;everybody&lt;/i&gt;, not just the people who have opinions you agree with, and being openly trans is a form of speech.</text></item><item><author>eastdakota</author><text>Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.”&lt;p&gt;Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems.&lt;p&gt;That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.&lt;p&gt;Encourage you when these issues arise to think of them in the rule of law context, rather than free speech, in order to have a more robust conversation with frameworks that have an appeal and applicability across nearly every nation and government.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>xupybd</author><text>No that&amp;#x27;s why this issue should have been dealt with promptly and firmly by a justice system not by a corporate choice.&lt;p&gt;We can&amp;#x27;t have a society that requires CEO to decide who is morally acceptable and who is not.&lt;p&gt;If law&amp;#x27;s have been broken we need law enforcement.</text></comment>
<story><title>Blocking Kiwifarms</title><url>https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>danShumway</author><text>&amp;gt; It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.&lt;p&gt;This is exactly why dropping Kiwi Farms was the right decision. There is a difference between saying hateful things and doxing and harassing people with threats of violence.&lt;p&gt;We don&amp;#x27;t even need to dip into the endless debate about tolerating hate -- there&amp;#x27;s no level of ideological indirection here, Kiwi Farms was just very straightforwardly driving people offline with threats of physical harm and real-world harassment.</text></item><item><author>xupybd</author><text>Free speech is about giving people the freedom to say things I find disgusting. It&amp;#x27;s about giving each individual the choice to listen to what ever influence they wish. It takes the the power of ideas and elevates them above physical force.</text></item><item><author>notatoad</author><text>&amp;gt;rather than free speech&lt;p&gt;i encourage anybody who is calls themselves a &amp;quot;free speech advocate&amp;quot; to consider what kiwifarms has been doing to &amp;quot;free speech&amp;quot;.  their intimidation campaigns have been doing a lot more to harm the cause of free speech than this decision by cloudflare is.  if you &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; believe in free speech, you understand that trans people deserve free speech too, and kiwifarms harrasment campaigns have been harming their free speech.  free speech is for &lt;i&gt;everybody&lt;/i&gt;, not just the people who have opinions you agree with, and being openly trans is a form of speech.</text></item><item><author>eastdakota</author><text>Reading over the comments I see everyone thinking this is about “free speech.” It is not. It’s about what in the US you’d call “due process” and in all the rest of the world you’d call “rule of law.”&lt;p&gt;Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems.&lt;p&gt;That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.&lt;p&gt;Encourage you when these issues arise to think of them in the rule of law context, rather than free speech, in order to have a more robust conversation with frameworks that have an appeal and applicability across nearly every nation and government.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>stale2002</author><text>Although this is an interesting argument, the issue in this context is that the US legal system, has yet to declare what it is that KF is doing to be illegal.&lt;p&gt;Maybe they would have lost in court.  But as of yet, even though there has been multiple lawsuits against KFs, KF farms has won every thing lawsuit.&lt;p&gt;That is the issue you have to grapple with.  That, for all known knowledge that we have, from the legal system, nobody has proven their actions to be illegal.</text></comment>