<story><title>Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive</title><url>https://www.permanentrepresentations.nl/permanent-representations/pr-eu-brussels/documents/policy-notes/2019/02/20/joint-statement-regarding-the-copyright-directive</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>DubiousPusher</author><text>The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn&amp;#x27;t arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would&amp;#x27;ve been ridiculous.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation as their identifying place. Previously people&amp;#x27;s place identity came the much smaller geography of their county, kingdom, principality or hamlet. Joining these smaller identities into larger national identities was a big win that came with many benefits. Of course it meant that these places had to give up some autonomy. Just as there are many benefits of nations giving up some autonomy to act collectively in a regional power structure.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s only our contemporary bias that tells us that the subordination of the political will of the hamlet to the nation is good and that the subordination of the national will to a continental or regional will is bad.</text></item><item><author>citilife</author><text>The issue I see with the EU, is that it&amp;#x27;s essentially centralizing all the &amp;quot;countries&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;states&amp;quot;. Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France.&lt;p&gt;Personally, I think it&amp;#x27;s sad. It&amp;#x27;s as if we&amp;#x27;re watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.&lt;p&gt;This is similar to the struggle the U.S. faced at the start. You cannot have a centralized government making laws without invasively deciding everything. A federation of the EU made sense. Shared currency, shared military, etc. But by trying to manage the economy (which copyright is an extension of), they are essentially going down the path of ever increasing centralization.&lt;p&gt;With that, countries like the U.K., who have a strong national identity, can and should leave - if they want to be an independent nation.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>aikah</author><text>&amp;gt; The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary.&lt;p&gt;As opposed to the pedestal people put supra national institutions such as the EU? Rome? Napoleon&amp;#x27;s Empire? all failed eventually.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; National identities didn&amp;#x27;t arise naturally.&lt;p&gt;Neither did the European Union. All societies are man made constructs, what your point?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; It&amp;#x27;s only our contemporary bias that tells us that the subordination of the political will of the hamlet to the nation is good and that the subordination of the national will to a continental or regional will is bad.&lt;p&gt;Well, the EU is more power concentrated in the hands of fewer people. By nature it will always be less democratic than governance at a smaller scale. And these structures tend to seek even more power as time goes, not less.&lt;p&gt;What is better? more tyranny,bureaucracy or more democracy?&lt;p&gt;Ignoring local cultures and socio-economics specificities by trying to impose arbitrary rules to an entire continent? In that case there will always be winners and losers.</text></comment>
<story><title>Netherlands, Finland, Luxembourg, Poland and Italy Oppose EU Copyright Directive</title><url>https://www.permanentrepresentations.nl/permanent-representations/pr-eu-brussels/documents/policy-notes/2019/02/20/joint-statement-regarding-the-copyright-directive</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>DubiousPusher</author><text>The pedestal contemporary people put national identity on is just that, contemporary. National identities didn&amp;#x27;t arise naturally. Many of them were very thoughtfully and intentionally invented. For most of human history, the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would&amp;#x27;ve been ridiculous.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s really only in the last 200-400 years that people have accepted the nation as their identifying place. Previously people&amp;#x27;s place identity came the much smaller geography of their county, kingdom, principality or hamlet. Joining these smaller identities into larger national identities was a big win that came with many benefits. Of course it meant that these places had to give up some autonomy. Just as there are many benefits of nations giving up some autonomy to act collectively in a regional power structure.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s only our contemporary bias that tells us that the subordination of the political will of the hamlet to the nation is good and that the subordination of the national will to a continental or regional will is bad.</text></item><item><author>citilife</author><text>The issue I see with the EU, is that it&amp;#x27;s essentially centralizing all the &amp;quot;countries&amp;quot; into &amp;quot;states&amp;quot;. Where by, each of the states will simply answer to the two countries with the most power. Namely Germany, followed by France.&lt;p&gt;Personally, I think it&amp;#x27;s sad. It&amp;#x27;s as if we&amp;#x27;re watching the destruction of all the national identities. Only to be centralized by powers who are only interested in their own national identity.&lt;p&gt;This is similar to the struggle the U.S. faced at the start. You cannot have a centralized government making laws without invasively deciding everything. A federation of the EU made sense. Shared currency, shared military, etc. But by trying to manage the economy (which copyright is an extension of), they are essentially going down the path of ever increasing centralization.&lt;p&gt;With that, countries like the U.K., who have a strong national identity, can and should leave - if they want to be an independent nation.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>deogeo</author><text>&amp;gt; the idea that people over a geography the size of Engalnd would see themselves as one people would&amp;#x27;ve been ridiculous&lt;p&gt;Yet they were &lt;i&gt;related&lt;/i&gt; people, ethnically, linguistically, and culturally. It&amp;#x27;s like saying the idea of a family would&amp;#x27;ve been ridiculous, because brothers used to fight and bicker.</text></comment>