<story><title>Adversarial Collaboration</title><url>https://www.edge.org/adversarial-collaboration-daniel-kahneman</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>eloff</author><text>Maybe I&amp;#x27;m uncommon in this aspect, but I don&amp;#x27;t feel like I&amp;#x27;m a member of many groups. I&amp;#x27;m not religious, but don&amp;#x27;t really consider myself an atheist. I&amp;#x27;m not for any particular party. I don&amp;#x27;t care about sports. I&amp;#x27;m Canadian, but don&amp;#x27;t live there and don&amp;#x27;t feel like I belong there either. I suppose you could say I&amp;#x27;m part of the group of Caucasian males by birth or part of the group of software engineers by trade, but I don&amp;#x27;t think those are &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; groups with many ideas in common. Maybe I just am not aware of which ideas I get from those groups.</text></item><item><author>lapcat</author><text>&amp;gt; If someone is a member of a group, it is almost not worth listening to their arguments, especially arguments in support of views held strongly by that group.&lt;p&gt;Who isn&amp;#x27;t a member of a group? We&amp;#x27;re all members of a number of groups.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s refreshing that Kahneman honestly admits that he doesn&amp;#x27;t change his mind either, and his tastes were formed when he was relatively young. He&amp;#x27;s not putting himself above the rest of humanity. He could easily say, &amp;quot;Well I&amp;#x27;m a famous and distinguished scientist, so obviously &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; beliefs are rational, unlike everyone else&amp;quot;, but he doesn&amp;#x27;t.</text></item><item><author>bigmatto</author><text>One of the most disappointing things that I have learned is that most people hold opinions in order to be part of some group. If someone is a member of a group, it is almost not worth listening to their arguments, especially arguments in support of views held strongly by that group. They are arguing in order to maintain their group membership, not to find the truth. It appears this is true of academic and scientific disciplines as much as anywhere else.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>marcosdumay</author><text>&amp;gt; I&amp;#x27;m not religious, but don&amp;#x27;t really consider myself an atheist.&lt;p&gt;Oh, an agnostic.&lt;p&gt;There is something to be said about groups of people that hold similar ideas because their similar way of thinking lead them to similar conclusions. It&amp;#x27;s a very important exception to the OP&amp;#x27;s description, where the group came first, and may even be the most common kind.&lt;p&gt;(Of course, the question to answer is why do those people think in similar ways.)&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; part of the group of software engineers by trade&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;d bet that one lead you into adopting some values.</text></comment>
<story><title>Adversarial Collaboration</title><url>https://www.edge.org/adversarial-collaboration-daniel-kahneman</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>eloff</author><text>Maybe I&amp;#x27;m uncommon in this aspect, but I don&amp;#x27;t feel like I&amp;#x27;m a member of many groups. I&amp;#x27;m not religious, but don&amp;#x27;t really consider myself an atheist. I&amp;#x27;m not for any particular party. I don&amp;#x27;t care about sports. I&amp;#x27;m Canadian, but don&amp;#x27;t live there and don&amp;#x27;t feel like I belong there either. I suppose you could say I&amp;#x27;m part of the group of Caucasian males by birth or part of the group of software engineers by trade, but I don&amp;#x27;t think those are &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; groups with many ideas in common. Maybe I just am not aware of which ideas I get from those groups.</text></item><item><author>lapcat</author><text>&amp;gt; If someone is a member of a group, it is almost not worth listening to their arguments, especially arguments in support of views held strongly by that group.&lt;p&gt;Who isn&amp;#x27;t a member of a group? We&amp;#x27;re all members of a number of groups.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s refreshing that Kahneman honestly admits that he doesn&amp;#x27;t change his mind either, and his tastes were formed when he was relatively young. He&amp;#x27;s not putting himself above the rest of humanity. He could easily say, &amp;quot;Well I&amp;#x27;m a famous and distinguished scientist, so obviously &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; beliefs are rational, unlike everyone else&amp;quot;, but he doesn&amp;#x27;t.</text></item><item><author>bigmatto</author><text>One of the most disappointing things that I have learned is that most people hold opinions in order to be part of some group. If someone is a member of a group, it is almost not worth listening to their arguments, especially arguments in support of views held strongly by that group. They are arguing in order to maintain their group membership, not to find the truth. It appears this is true of academic and scientific disciplines as much as anywhere else.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jiggawatts</author><text>Same here. Something I always find hilarious is conversations with people who&amp;#x27;s opinions are &lt;i&gt;very polarised&lt;/i&gt; due to their membership in groups. For example, I have a friends that are variously: a Christian priest, libertarian, anti-vaxxers, and Trump supporters.&lt;p&gt;Invariably, in every discussion, they&amp;#x27;ll trot out this sentence: &amp;quot;You &lt;i&gt;&amp;lt;opponent group name&amp;gt;&lt;/i&gt; people always think &lt;i&gt;&amp;lt;notion&amp;gt;&lt;/i&gt;&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;For example: &amp;quot;You Liberal party voters always support lowering taxes&amp;quot; or somesuch sentence.&lt;p&gt;I point out that I didn&amp;#x27;t vote for the Liberal party.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;The Labour party voters are the same!&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I point out I didn&amp;#x27;t vote for Labour either in the most recent election either.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Err...&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;-- at this point their brain locks up, because they&amp;#x27;re expecting a tribe-vs-tribe fight and they have &lt;i&gt;no idea what to do&lt;/i&gt; when they discover I don&amp;#x27;t actually belong to their &amp;quot;enemy tribe&amp;quot;.</text></comment>