<story><title>Cruise is opening driverless cars to the public in San Francisco</title><url>https://www.getcruise.com/news/welcome-riders/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>quadrifoliate</author><text>&amp;gt; Can we just call out how incredibly awesome this is? We might stumble along the way but this is as big as moving from horse carts to cars.&lt;p&gt;I find it a bit hard to believe that people aren&amp;#x27;t more concerned about calling out what exact legal framework this operation is being allowed under. Having a car without a driver in it driving around seems like a &lt;i&gt;massive&lt;/i&gt; risk for the drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists sharing the streets of San Francisco; they should be entitled to know &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; they are test cases for these car-driving programs.&lt;p&gt;The most I could find was that it &lt;i&gt;seems&lt;/i&gt; to be this permit [1], and the link in it states:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Cruise’s permit is available at www.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;avcissued.&lt;p&gt;...which is a 404.&lt;p&gt;It also states:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; More information on the CPUC’s Autonomous Vehicle Passenger Service Pilot Programs is
available at www.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;avcpilotinfo.&lt;p&gt;...which is &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; a 404.&lt;p&gt;This does not...inspire confidence, to say the least.&lt;p&gt;Given that official information about this seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I guess I&amp;#x27;ll ask the obvious question – if the cars hit and injure someone, is Cruise&amp;#x27;s CEO going to be held personally liable? The engineers who worked on the tech? The passengers in the car (who are the nearest thing to drivers)?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s not like this is an unexpected scenario, we have preexisting example of this happening [2]. Or is the plan to sweep real-life consequences under the carpet with euphemisms like &amp;quot;stumble along the way&amp;quot;?&lt;p&gt;----------------------------------------&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;PublishedDocs&amp;#x2F;Published&amp;#x2F;G000&amp;#x2F;M387&amp;#x2F;K064&amp;#x2F;387064893.PDF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;PublishedDocs&amp;#x2F;Published&amp;#x2F;G000&amp;#x2F;M387&amp;#x2F;K...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>silentsea90</author><text>Can we just call out how incredibly awesome this is? We might stumble along the way but this is as big as moving from horse carts to cars. Respect to all of you working on self driving cars!</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>silentsea90</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t know the answers. They&amp;#x27;re definitely worth figuring out, but the legal questions do not take away from the sheer gall to dream and achieve. Figuring out liability is in the domain of law, which is easy compared to building such engineering marvels. I am sure we can figure it out. Self driving car companies take safety VERY VERY seriously not just for potential legal consequences but because a single incident would make consumers lose trust, which is a death knell for such companies.&lt;p&gt;For folks who think about Cruise&amp;#x27;s achievement cynically (not directed at the commenter), please consider what your stance would have been back in the day in the following situations:
1) Cars being introduced to challenge horse carts in the late 1800s and early 1900s
2) Countries like India spending on a Space program while having a considerable population below poverty line, rise of SpaceX
3) The rise of the internet in the 90s with its trivial applications like radio, silly websites etc&lt;p&gt;If your answer is - oh of course I would cheer each of these, but view self driving cars cynically, good for you.</text></comment>
<story><title>Cruise is opening driverless cars to the public in San Francisco</title><url>https://www.getcruise.com/news/welcome-riders/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>quadrifoliate</author><text>&amp;gt; Can we just call out how incredibly awesome this is? We might stumble along the way but this is as big as moving from horse carts to cars.&lt;p&gt;I find it a bit hard to believe that people aren&amp;#x27;t more concerned about calling out what exact legal framework this operation is being allowed under. Having a car without a driver in it driving around seems like a &lt;i&gt;massive&lt;/i&gt; risk for the drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists sharing the streets of San Francisco; they should be entitled to know &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; they are test cases for these car-driving programs.&lt;p&gt;The most I could find was that it &lt;i&gt;seems&lt;/i&gt; to be this permit [1], and the link in it states:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Cruise’s permit is available at www.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;avcissued.&lt;p&gt;...which is a 404.&lt;p&gt;It also states:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; More information on the CPUC’s Autonomous Vehicle Passenger Service Pilot Programs is
available at www.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;avcpilotinfo.&lt;p&gt;...which is &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; a 404.&lt;p&gt;This does not...inspire confidence, to say the least.&lt;p&gt;Given that official information about this seems to be a bit thin on the ground, I guess I&amp;#x27;ll ask the obvious question – if the cars hit and injure someone, is Cruise&amp;#x27;s CEO going to be held personally liable? The engineers who worked on the tech? The passengers in the car (who are the nearest thing to drivers)?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s not like this is an unexpected scenario, we have preexisting example of this happening [2]. Or is the plan to sweep real-life consequences under the carpet with euphemisms like &amp;quot;stumble along the way&amp;quot;?&lt;p&gt;----------------------------------------&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;PublishedDocs&amp;#x2F;Published&amp;#x2F;G000&amp;#x2F;M387&amp;#x2F;K064&amp;#x2F;387064893.PDF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.cpuc.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;PublishedDocs&amp;#x2F;Published&amp;#x2F;G000&amp;#x2F;M387&amp;#x2F;K...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Death_of_Elaine_Herzberg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>silentsea90</author><text>Can we just call out how incredibly awesome this is? We might stumble along the way but this is as big as moving from horse carts to cars. Respect to all of you working on self driving cars!</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>lovehashbrowns</author><text>Cruise in particular has been around in San Francisco for a while. &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;techcrunch.com&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;cruise-begins-driverless-testing-in-san-francisco&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;techcrunch.com&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;cruise-begins-driverless-t...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; The California DMV, the agency that regulates autonomous vehicle testing in the state, issued Cruise a permit in October that allows the company to test five autonomous vehicles without a driver behind the wheel on specified streets within San Francisco. Cruise has had a permit to test autonomous vehicles with safety drivers behind the wheel since 2015.&lt;p&gt;I saw their cars a lot while I lived in San Francisco. But back then they had safety drivers and such.&lt;p&gt;Information about the permit can be found here &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicles&amp;#x2F;autonomous-vehicle-deployment-program&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.dmv.ca.gov&amp;#x2F;portal&amp;#x2F;vehicle-industry-services&amp;#x2F;auto...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>