<story><title>When the Boss Says, &apos;Don&apos;t Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid&apos;</title><url>http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/when-the-boss-says-dont-tell-your-coworkers-how-much-you-get-paid/374467/?single_page=true</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>smm2000</author><text>18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%</text></item><item><author>ordinary</author><text>&lt;i&gt;If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don&amp;#x27;t think another redundant law is going to change your behavior.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Women don&amp;#x27;t earn about 18% less than men (OECD median, 2008)[0] because a small minority of employers pay women almost nothing, but because the vast majority of employers pay women (or blacks, or handicapped people) slightly less. Just like laws that prohibit killing don&amp;#x27;t target psychopaths, laws that prohibit discrimination don&amp;#x27;t target the KKK; they (should) aim to change the societal norms that your average Joe McAverage conforms to. It&amp;#x27;s the distinction between institutionalized discrimination and the more intimate personal type.&lt;p&gt;_____&lt;p&gt;[0] The exact number is not really what&amp;#x27;s important here, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/57/40846335.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.oecd.org&amp;#x2F;dataoecd&amp;#x2F;54&amp;#x2F;57&amp;#x2F;40846335.pdf&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>crazy1van</author><text>This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er.&lt;p&gt;I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don&amp;#x27;t think another redundant law is going to change your behavior.&lt;p&gt;This seems like a feel good exercise. People still buy drugs? Pass another law that says trafficking drugs is super duper illegal. Another heinous murder? Make it extra illegal to murder someone. In fact, make it extra illegal to murder someone with a specific type of weapon.&lt;p&gt;This stuff doesn&amp;#x27;t seem to matter. Drug dealers know they face stiff penalties if caught. People who have decided to murder another human really don&amp;#x27;t care if the penalties are higher if they use a gun versus a tire iron. And, misogynist employers aren&amp;#x27;t going to be swayed by yet another law that says treat all people the same regardless of sex, for reals this time.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Steuard</author><text>I have no idea what the right number is. But as the article points out, part of the issue is precisely that traditionally female jobs tend to pay less &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; they are traditionally female. Here&amp;#x27;s one apparent example of that in action:&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;One of my lecturers at university once presented us with this thought exercise: why are doctors so highly paid, and so well-respected? Our answers were predictable. Because they save lives, their skills are extremely important, and it takes years and years of education to become one. All sound, logical reasons. But these traits that doctors possess are universal. So why is it, she asked, that doctors in Russia are so lowly paid? Making less than £7,500 a year, it is one of the lowest paid professions in Russia, and poorly respected at that. Why is this?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;The answer? It doesn&amp;#x27;t seem to be a coincidence that in Russia, doctors have been a traditionally female profession, unlike western Europe and the USA. The low pay and low status of medicine in Russia appears to be directly tied to its identity as a &amp;quot;women&amp;#x27;s career&amp;quot; there.&lt;p&gt;(Quote from this page: &lt;a href=&quot;http://cratesandribbons.com/2013/12/13/patriarchys-magic-trick-how-anything-perceived-as-womens-work-immediately-sheds-its-value/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;cratesandribbons.com&amp;#x2F;2013&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;patriarchys-magic-tri...&lt;/a&gt; I don&amp;#x27;t know whether this site was the first place I heard about this fact, but it&amp;#x27;s the top hit for it on Google.)</text></comment>
<story><title>When the Boss Says, &apos;Don&apos;t Tell Your Coworkers How Much You Get Paid&apos;</title><url>http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/when-the-boss-says-dont-tell-your-coworkers-how-much-you-get-paid/374467/?single_page=true</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>smm2000</author><text>18% number is bullshit debunked many times. When you control for occupation, working hours, etc between male and female - the difference in pay is only 2-3%</text></item><item><author>ordinary</author><text>&lt;i&gt;If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don&amp;#x27;t think another redundant law is going to change your behavior.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Women don&amp;#x27;t earn about 18% less than men (OECD median, 2008)[0] because a small minority of employers pay women almost nothing, but because the vast majority of employers pay women (or blacks, or handicapped people) slightly less. Just like laws that prohibit killing don&amp;#x27;t target psychopaths, laws that prohibit discrimination don&amp;#x27;t target the KKK; they (should) aim to change the societal norms that your average Joe McAverage conforms to. It&amp;#x27;s the distinction between institutionalized discrimination and the more intimate personal type.&lt;p&gt;_____&lt;p&gt;[0] The exact number is not really what&amp;#x27;s important here, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/57/40846335.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.oecd.org&amp;#x2F;dataoecd&amp;#x2F;54&amp;#x2F;57&amp;#x2F;40846335.pdf&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>crazy1van</author><text>This article seems to basically say its already illegal to prohibit employees from discussing pay (NLRA 1935) and it is certainly illegal to pay someone less based on race or sex (Equal Pay Act, and others) but the solution to wage discrimination is pass more laws that make it illegal-er.&lt;p&gt;I have a hard time buying this argument. If you are an employer despicable enough to systematically be paying women less just for being women, I don&amp;#x27;t think another redundant law is going to change your behavior.&lt;p&gt;This seems like a feel good exercise. People still buy drugs? Pass another law that says trafficking drugs is super duper illegal. Another heinous murder? Make it extra illegal to murder someone. In fact, make it extra illegal to murder someone with a specific type of weapon.&lt;p&gt;This stuff doesn&amp;#x27;t seem to matter. Drug dealers know they face stiff penalties if caught. People who have decided to murder another human really don&amp;#x27;t care if the penalties are higher if they use a gun versus a tire iron. And, misogynist employers aren&amp;#x27;t going to be swayed by yet another law that says treat all people the same regardless of sex, for reals this time.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Karunamon</author><text>Not that I don&amp;#x27;t believe you, but could you link to said debunking?</text></comment>