<story><title>Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-03/tesla-passes-ford-by-market-value-before-musk-delivers-model-3</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>wang_li</author><text>&amp;gt; If we are serious about climate change, then sometime in the 2030s [1] we have to stop building new combustion engines.&lt;p&gt;Or there might be a breakthrough in carbon capture, converting atmospheric CO2 into petroleum and we can drive combustion engines forever.&lt;p&gt;CO2 capture is an area of active research and it&amp;#x27;s entirely possible that advances there will make Tesla and Solar City moot.</text></item><item><author>Certhas</author><text>&amp;gt; &amp;#x27;s valuation is also based on the idea that clean energy will replace fossil fuels.&lt;p&gt;Last month Tesla sold 10,000 electric vehicles to Fords 2,500.&lt;p&gt;If we are serious about climate change, then sometime in the 2030s [1] we have to stop building new combustion engines.&lt;p&gt;The entire technology platform on which these 6,7 million Ford sales rest is about to be swapped out in little over a decade.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;arstechnica.com&amp;#x2F;cars&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;germanys-bundesrat-votes-to-ban-the-internal-combustion-engine-by-2030&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;arstechnica.com&amp;#x2F;cars&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;germanys-bundesrat-vote...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>erikpukinskis</author><text>&amp;gt; There are so many car makers, there is no monopole they could get. Same for solar and batteries.&lt;p&gt;The automobile industry will contract as we move from individual ownership to mobility. But along with that transition some manufacturers will keep up and others will not. Tesla is hoping to be one of the winners, taking perhaps 25% of the mobility market as the car buying market dries up.&lt;p&gt;Tesla&amp;#x27;s valuation is also based on the idea that clean energy will replace fossil fuels. If that happens, the battery market will grow by orders of magnitude. Tesla will basically take the market from coal and petroleum.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t need a monopoly in either of these to justify their valuation. Simply get 10% of mobility and 10% of electricity storage and they&amp;#x27;ll have justified well above their current valuation.&lt;p&gt;Remember mobility services will subsume much of public transit and shipping too. The borders between industries are moving around. You can&amp;#x27;t just ask &amp;quot;how much of industry X will Tesla get?&amp;quot; because whole industries will ascent and others will wither as we transition to sustainable energy.</text></item><item><author>allendoerfer</author><text>&amp;gt; Ford: &amp;quot;We have no idea how to invest this money. I guess let&amp;#x27;s just put it in the bank.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Tesla: &amp;quot;We have so many idea for investments, we&amp;#x27;re only constrained by cash. Let&amp;#x27;s go back to the capital markets!&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I think becoming as big as Ford already is, is one of Tesla&amp;#x27;s most positive possible futures if all of their many ideas play out. But they are already valued higher than that. How can this possibly work? There are so many car makers, there is no monopole they could get. Same for solar and batteries.</text></item><item><author>crabasa</author><text>&amp;gt; Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion.&lt;p&gt;Ford: &amp;quot;We have no idea how to invest this money. I guess let&amp;#x27;s just put it in the bank.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Tesla: &amp;quot;We have so many idea for investments, we&amp;#x27;re only constrained by cash. Let&amp;#x27;s go back to the capital markets!&amp;quot;</text></item><item><author>dan1234</author><text>Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA:&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion.&lt;p&gt;And when it comes to car sales, Tesla sold 40,697 vehicles in the U.S. last year, according to researcher IHS Markit. Ford sells that many F-Series trucks in the U.S. about every three weeks.&amp;quot;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jeff_petersen</author><text>&amp;gt; CO2 capture is an area of active research and it&amp;#x27;s entirely possible that advances there will make Tesla and Solar City moot.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t know how likely that is. Even if carbon capture comes through, the low hanging fruit of fossil fuels are gone so now we have to get more invasive in harvesting the hard-to-get ones (strip mining, fracking, etc). It&amp;#x27;s likely that even with C02 emissions taken care of that we&amp;#x27;ll want electric vehicles and renewable power in general.</text></comment>
<story><title>Tesla Passes Ford by Market Value</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-03/tesla-passes-ford-by-market-value-before-musk-delivers-model-3</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>wang_li</author><text>&amp;gt; If we are serious about climate change, then sometime in the 2030s [1] we have to stop building new combustion engines.&lt;p&gt;Or there might be a breakthrough in carbon capture, converting atmospheric CO2 into petroleum and we can drive combustion engines forever.&lt;p&gt;CO2 capture is an area of active research and it&amp;#x27;s entirely possible that advances there will make Tesla and Solar City moot.</text></item><item><author>Certhas</author><text>&amp;gt; &amp;#x27;s valuation is also based on the idea that clean energy will replace fossil fuels.&lt;p&gt;Last month Tesla sold 10,000 electric vehicles to Fords 2,500.&lt;p&gt;If we are serious about climate change, then sometime in the 2030s [1] we have to stop building new combustion engines.&lt;p&gt;The entire technology platform on which these 6,7 million Ford sales rest is about to be swapped out in little over a decade.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;arstechnica.com&amp;#x2F;cars&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;germanys-bundesrat-votes-to-ban-the-internal-combustion-engine-by-2030&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;arstechnica.com&amp;#x2F;cars&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;germanys-bundesrat-vote...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>erikpukinskis</author><text>&amp;gt; There are so many car makers, there is no monopole they could get. Same for solar and batteries.&lt;p&gt;The automobile industry will contract as we move from individual ownership to mobility. But along with that transition some manufacturers will keep up and others will not. Tesla is hoping to be one of the winners, taking perhaps 25% of the mobility market as the car buying market dries up.&lt;p&gt;Tesla&amp;#x27;s valuation is also based on the idea that clean energy will replace fossil fuels. If that happens, the battery market will grow by orders of magnitude. Tesla will basically take the market from coal and petroleum.&lt;p&gt;They don&amp;#x27;t need a monopoly in either of these to justify their valuation. Simply get 10% of mobility and 10% of electricity storage and they&amp;#x27;ll have justified well above their current valuation.&lt;p&gt;Remember mobility services will subsume much of public transit and shipping too. The borders between industries are moving around. You can&amp;#x27;t just ask &amp;quot;how much of industry X will Tesla get?&amp;quot; because whole industries will ascent and others will wither as we transition to sustainable energy.</text></item><item><author>allendoerfer</author><text>&amp;gt; Ford: &amp;quot;We have no idea how to invest this money. I guess let&amp;#x27;s just put it in the bank.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Tesla: &amp;quot;We have so many idea for investments, we&amp;#x27;re only constrained by cash. Let&amp;#x27;s go back to the capital markets!&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I think becoming as big as Ford already is, is one of Tesla&amp;#x27;s most positive possible futures if all of their many ideas play out. But they are already valued higher than that. How can this possibly work? There are so many car makers, there is no monopole they could get. Same for solar and batteries.</text></item><item><author>crabasa</author><text>&amp;gt; Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion.&lt;p&gt;Ford: &amp;quot;We have no idea how to invest this money. I guess let&amp;#x27;s just put it in the bank.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Tesla: &amp;quot;We have so many idea for investments, we&amp;#x27;re only constrained by cash. Let&amp;#x27;s go back to the capital markets!&amp;quot;</text></item><item><author>dan1234</author><text>Interesting, but market cap isn’t everything - FTA:&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;While Tesla’s market capitalization has swelled in size, Ford still overshadows the Palo Alto, California-based company in most other financial metrics. Over the last five years, Ford has posted net income totaling $26 billion, while Tesla has lost $2.3 billion. Last year, Ford had annual revenue of $151.8 billion compared with Tesla’s $7 billion.&lt;p&gt;And when it comes to car sales, Tesla sold 40,697 vehicles in the U.S. last year, according to researcher IHS Markit. Ford sells that many F-Series trucks in the U.S. about every three weeks.&amp;quot;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Robotbeat</author><text>Even if CO2 to petroleum were 100% efficient, you&amp;#x27;re still throwing away 70+% of the energy by burning it in an ICE rather than putting it in a battery as electricity.&lt;p&gt;Any likely method of CO2 to petroleum is likely to be below 50%, more like 15-30% efficient. Round-trip efficiency an entire order of magnitude worse than battery. That&amp;#x27;s why batteries are better for ground-based applications and will remain so.</text></comment>