<story><title>How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/23/business/energy-environment/big-windmills.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>nabla9</author><text>The interesting question is what effect clean energy has to the usage of hydrocarbons. Will it bring reduce global demand or just reduce the price of energy.&lt;p&gt;The good news is: CO2 emission intensity is going down globally and emissions per capita in US, China and EU28 are going down.&lt;p&gt;The bad news are: Emissions per capita are still going up globally, and hydrocarbon usage and CO2 emissions are breaking records year after year. &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;img&amp;#x2F;GCP2017&amp;#x2F;PNG&amp;#x2F;s09_FossilFuel_and_Cement_emissions_1990.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;img&amp;#x2F;GCP2017&amp;#x2F;PNG&amp;#x2F;s09_FossilFuel_an...&lt;/a&gt;  Economic downturn was the only thing  causing temporary decline.&lt;p&gt;It looks like clean energy  reduces the demand in developed countries, thus reducing the prices of hydrocarbons. It will not reduce the CO2 emissions globally, it just moves them from the developed world to the developing world. Maybe  it slows down CO2 emission growth rate?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;learnmore&amp;#x2F;more_warning_signs.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;learnmore&amp;#x2F;more_warning_signs.shtm...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;---&lt;p&gt;EDIT: Just to point out how complex the dynamics between clean energy,  hydrocarbons and policy are, here is nice recent research paper from Acemoglu and Rafey:&lt;p&gt;Mirage on the Horizon:  Geoengineering and Carbon Taxation
Without Commitment &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;economics.mit.edu&amp;#x2F;files&amp;#x2F;14855&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;economics.mit.edu&amp;#x2F;files&amp;#x2F;14855&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Abstract: We show that, in a model without commitment to future policies, geoengineering breakthroughs can have adverse environmental and welfare effects because they change the (equilibrium) carbon taxes.  In our model, energy producers emit carbon, which creates a negative environmental externality,  and may decide to switch to cleaner technology.  A benevolent social planner sets carbon
taxes without commitment.  Higher future carbon taxes both reduce emissions given technology
and encourage energy producers to switch to cleaner technology.  Geoengineering advances, which
reduce the negative environmental effects of the existing stock of carbon, decrease future carbon
taxes and thus discourage private investments in conventional clean technology.  We characterize
the conditions under which these advances diminish—rather than improve—environmental quality
and welfare.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Scarblac</author><text>This is why the only way to deal with climate change is countries with carbon reserves deciding to leave it in the ground.&lt;p&gt;If they don&amp;#x27;t, there is so much demand for the stuff (burning it is so incredibly useful) that it&amp;#x27;ll all be burned.</text></comment>
<story><title>How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/23/business/energy-environment/big-windmills.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>nabla9</author><text>The interesting question is what effect clean energy has to the usage of hydrocarbons. Will it bring reduce global demand or just reduce the price of energy.&lt;p&gt;The good news is: CO2 emission intensity is going down globally and emissions per capita in US, China and EU28 are going down.&lt;p&gt;The bad news are: Emissions per capita are still going up globally, and hydrocarbon usage and CO2 emissions are breaking records year after year. &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;img&amp;#x2F;GCP2017&amp;#x2F;PNG&amp;#x2F;s09_FossilFuel_and_Cement_emissions_1990.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;img&amp;#x2F;GCP2017&amp;#x2F;PNG&amp;#x2F;s09_FossilFuel_an...&lt;/a&gt;  Economic downturn was the only thing  causing temporary decline.&lt;p&gt;It looks like clean energy  reduces the demand in developed countries, thus reducing the prices of hydrocarbons. It will not reduce the CO2 emissions globally, it just moves them from the developed world to the developing world. Maybe  it slows down CO2 emission growth rate?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;learnmore&amp;#x2F;more_warning_signs.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;folk.uio.no&amp;#x2F;roberan&amp;#x2F;learnmore&amp;#x2F;more_warning_signs.shtm...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;---&lt;p&gt;EDIT: Just to point out how complex the dynamics between clean energy,  hydrocarbons and policy are, here is nice recent research paper from Acemoglu and Rafey:&lt;p&gt;Mirage on the Horizon:  Geoengineering and Carbon Taxation
Without Commitment &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;economics.mit.edu&amp;#x2F;files&amp;#x2F;14855&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;economics.mit.edu&amp;#x2F;files&amp;#x2F;14855&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Abstract: We show that, in a model without commitment to future policies, geoengineering breakthroughs can have adverse environmental and welfare effects because they change the (equilibrium) carbon taxes.  In our model, energy producers emit carbon, which creates a negative environmental externality,  and may decide to switch to cleaner technology.  A benevolent social planner sets carbon
taxes without commitment.  Higher future carbon taxes both reduce emissions given technology
and encourage energy producers to switch to cleaner technology.  Geoengineering advances, which
reduce the negative environmental effects of the existing stock of carbon, decrease future carbon
taxes and thus discourage private investments in conventional clean technology.  We characterize
the conditions under which these advances diminish—rather than improve—environmental quality
and welfare.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Symmetry</author><text>If clean energy manages to get cheap enough eventually it will be easier to synthesize simple hydrocarbons out of atmospheric and water than to drill them out of the group and we can end up carbon neutral as a whole.  We&amp;#x27;ll see how cheap midday solar ends up when the price finishes dropping.</text></comment>