<story><title>Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19</title><url>https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>thwarted</author><text>This is getting stupid, if it wasn&amp;#x27;t already.&lt;p&gt;Requiring vaccination is &amp;quot;curtailing liberties&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is &amp;quot;curtailing liberties&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;No shit. One can either be part of society or not.  Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate.  One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don&amp;#x27;t want to do either of these things.  That&amp;#x27;s the price of admission of getting the benefits, whatever they may be, of interacting with other people.  Added bonus, the rest of us don&amp;#x27;t need to hear about hermits complaining about their liberties then too.&lt;p&gt;Building sewage management infrastructure is not curtailing liberties.  There is very little noise made about having to give up liberties because of the majority of other public works.  Civilization decided that shitting on the sidewalk is not something that should be encouraged or condoned, so here we are with our sewage management infrastructure.  We gain the freedom of &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; having to dig a hole and maintain an outhouse.&lt;p&gt;No one is giving up any &amp;quot;liberties&amp;quot; by getting vaccinated, but it&amp;#x27;s more likely they are acquiring liberties by getting vaccinated.  At the very least it&amp;#x27;s the liberty of reducing the risk of dying.&lt;p&gt;This is all a &amp;quot;I don&amp;#x27;t want to do what you said I should do purely because you said it&amp;quot;.  Fine.  The rest of us are at liberty to exclude or chastise these people.</text></item><item><author>radu_floricica</author><text>I agree with your points, but I&amp;#x27;d really really like to avoid giving the impression of... glee? &amp;quot;Look at those unwashed unvaccinated Trump supporters, so good they&amp;#x27;ll be forced to do things our ways now!&amp;quot;. I&amp;#x27;m not saying you&amp;#x27;re doing it, I&amp;#x27;m just piggybacking on your comment.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m pretty much a high-modernist when it comes to vaccines - I think that having governments build sewage and create vaccines go into the same category of &amp;quot;damn useful for civilization&amp;quot;. But it does involve curtailing liberties, and I just can&amp;#x27;t put it in a &amp;quot;fell good&amp;quot; category.</text></item><item><author>Cederfjard</author><text>&amp;gt; Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; ... that effectively will force many to be vaccinated.&lt;p&gt;Yup, that’s the point.&lt;p&gt;No man is an island. You already can’t walk around doing literally whatever you want just because it’s your body you’re doing it with. You depend on other people, and other people depend on you (or at least can’t avoid intermingling with you, especially if you decide to travel internationally). Those who don’t get vaccinated slow down our recovery from the pandemic, putting other people’s health and lives at risk. Society has to make these trade-offs, and this one seems very reasonable to me.</text></item><item><author>sharken</author><text>Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them.&lt;p&gt;The travel pass is a horrible idea, that effectively will force many to be vaccinated.&lt;p&gt;That should not be the european way.</text></item><item><author>walterbell</author><text>For those in the EU, the upcoming travel pass will cover three categories of people: vaccinated, PCR-tested negative, and recovered (i.e. positive antibody test of immunity), &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.schengenvisainfo.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;all-your-questions-on-eus-covid-19-vaccine-certificate-answered&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.schengenvisainfo.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;all-your-questions-on-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;gt; For travellers who have recovered from the virus: date of the positive test result, an issuer of the certificate, date of issuance, validity date&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;The bureaucratic stumbling block will be agreement on antibody and T-cell testing definitions across country borders.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>radu_floricica</author><text>Except putting &amp;quot;curtailing liberties&amp;quot; into scare quotes, what are you saying, exactly?&lt;p&gt;This is exactly the kind of tone and comment I was speaking against. I am _pro_ vaccinations, I am _pro_ making them soft-mandatory, I was even pro other restrictions back before vaccines. All I said, in a rather moderate tone, is that I disagree with being happy about the downsides. Somehow in the kind of comments I&amp;#x27;m speaking against, yours included, I don&amp;#x27;t see happiness that we&amp;#x27;re getting vaccinated per se. I don&amp;#x27;t see &amp;quot;yey, poeple won&amp;#x27;t be dying any more&amp;quot;. I see a lot of &amp;quot;chastise these people&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;I also see quite a lot of scare quotes and misrepresentation. I didn&amp;#x27;t say sewage was a restriction - I gave it as positive example. I didn&amp;#x27;t say (WHO would even say that?) that getting a vaccine is giving up liberties. That&amp;#x27;s stupid, really, it doesn&amp;#x27;t even make sense. I will say that not being able to do stuff without being vaccinated is a restriction. A worthy one, yes, and one I totally agree with, but by god, how can you even try to spin ... I&amp;#x27;m not even sure what you&amp;#x27;re trying to spin, because the more I read your comment the more I realize it&amp;#x27;s just appeal to emotion and void of content.&lt;p&gt;Are you free to rant against categories of people? Yes. I just said it&amp;#x27;s not a nice thing to do, is all.</text></comment>
<story><title>Lasting immunity found after recovery from Covid-19</title><url>https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>thwarted</author><text>This is getting stupid, if it wasn&amp;#x27;t already.&lt;p&gt;Requiring vaccination is &amp;quot;curtailing liberties&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;Restricting movement due not being vaccinated is &amp;quot;curtailing liberties&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;No shit. One can either be part of society or not.  Society has minimum requirements if one wants to participate.  One is free—exercise their liberty—to live as a hermit if they don&amp;#x27;t want to do either of these things.  That&amp;#x27;s the price of admission of getting the benefits, whatever they may be, of interacting with other people.  Added bonus, the rest of us don&amp;#x27;t need to hear about hermits complaining about their liberties then too.&lt;p&gt;Building sewage management infrastructure is not curtailing liberties.  There is very little noise made about having to give up liberties because of the majority of other public works.  Civilization decided that shitting on the sidewalk is not something that should be encouraged or condoned, so here we are with our sewage management infrastructure.  We gain the freedom of &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; having to dig a hole and maintain an outhouse.&lt;p&gt;No one is giving up any &amp;quot;liberties&amp;quot; by getting vaccinated, but it&amp;#x27;s more likely they are acquiring liberties by getting vaccinated.  At the very least it&amp;#x27;s the liberty of reducing the risk of dying.&lt;p&gt;This is all a &amp;quot;I don&amp;#x27;t want to do what you said I should do purely because you said it&amp;quot;.  Fine.  The rest of us are at liberty to exclude or chastise these people.</text></item><item><author>radu_floricica</author><text>I agree with your points, but I&amp;#x27;d really really like to avoid giving the impression of... glee? &amp;quot;Look at those unwashed unvaccinated Trump supporters, so good they&amp;#x27;ll be forced to do things our ways now!&amp;quot;. I&amp;#x27;m not saying you&amp;#x27;re doing it, I&amp;#x27;m just piggybacking on your comment.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m pretty much a high-modernist when it comes to vaccines - I think that having governments build sewage and create vaccines go into the same category of &amp;quot;damn useful for civilization&amp;quot;. But it does involve curtailing liberties, and I just can&amp;#x27;t put it in a &amp;quot;fell good&amp;quot; category.</text></item><item><author>Cederfjard</author><text>&amp;gt; Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; ... that effectively will force many to be vaccinated.&lt;p&gt;Yup, that’s the point.&lt;p&gt;No man is an island. You already can’t walk around doing literally whatever you want just because it’s your body you’re doing it with. You depend on other people, and other people depend on you (or at least can’t avoid intermingling with you, especially if you decide to travel internationally). Those who don’t get vaccinated slow down our recovery from the pandemic, putting other people’s health and lives at risk. Society has to make these trade-offs, and this one seems very reasonable to me.</text></item><item><author>sharken</author><text>Thus limiting those that are not vaccinated and making it difficult to move freely for them.&lt;p&gt;The travel pass is a horrible idea, that effectively will force many to be vaccinated.&lt;p&gt;That should not be the european way.</text></item><item><author>walterbell</author><text>For those in the EU, the upcoming travel pass will cover three categories of people: vaccinated, PCR-tested negative, and recovered (i.e. positive antibody test of immunity), &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.schengenvisainfo.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;all-your-questions-on-eus-covid-19-vaccine-certificate-answered&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.schengenvisainfo.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;all-your-questions-on-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;gt; For travellers who have recovered from the virus: date of the positive test result, an issuer of the certificate, date of issuance, validity date&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;The bureaucratic stumbling block will be agreement on antibody and T-cell testing definitions across country borders.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>mns</author><text>&amp;gt; No one is giving up any &amp;quot;liberties&amp;quot; by getting vaccinated, but it&amp;#x27;s more likely they are acquiring liberties by getting vaccinated. At the very least it&amp;#x27;s the liberty of reducing the risk of dying.&lt;p&gt;As a person waiting to get his booster shot next week, I find this quite concerning. Those liberties we had and were taken away from us. Nobody cares about people dying. I am sitting now next to my mom who 1 month ago was diagnosed with terminal secondary cancer after all her check-ups were cancelled last year. So yeah, nobody gives a damn about anything else than seeming virtuos and better than others online. But no one cares any more about any other diseases or other people that are suffering, it’s all social signaling for the rich and well off people to show how moral they are, all while their lifestyle is supported by those that can’t afford to have any liberties.</text></comment>