<story><title>Chinese ‘Artificial Sun’ experimental fusion reactor sets world record</title><url>https://nation.com.pk/29-May-2021/chinese-artificial-sun-experimental-fusion-reactor-sets-world-record-for-superheated-plasma-time</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ncmncm</author><text>It is a real achievement in plasma fluid dynamics engineering to have got a stable plasma so hot for so long.&lt;p&gt;However, it does not mean there will &lt;i&gt;ever&lt;/i&gt; be practical, commercially competitive power produced using this method or anything much like it. The total mass of material fusing in a reasonable volume is so small that, despite the large amount of energy per nucleus fused, the power produced is nowhere near what would be needed to pay for plant construction, never mind operation and maintenance--not to speak of having to replace all the most expensive parts after minimal use, as they are destroyed by neutron irradiation.&lt;p&gt;Thus, every cent spent on this project actually takes us farther away from a renewable-energy future, vs. that same money put into building out wind and solar capacity and storage.&lt;p&gt;This is a fundamental problem in any hot-neutron fusion system. The real reason governments pour so much money into Tokamak fusion projects is as jobs programs for hot-neutron physicists, and subsidy for contractors, to keep them all ready for when they will be tapped for weapons work.&lt;p&gt;This is similar to the way NASA is still funding SLS: nobody expects it ever to be useful for anything, but the contractors involved need to be kept busy and employing staff for when a new missile system is needed.&lt;p&gt;There are lots of probably-practical ideas for aneutronic fusion that don&amp;#x27;t get peanuts because they fail to provide a conduit for funding to thd right places. E.g. D-H3 fusion in FRC may well be practical for spacecraft propulsion, but development is on a shoestring budget, hoping to test something in maybe 2035.</text></item><item><author>jtchang</author><text>Seeing humanity achieve net fusion in my lifetime would be a total game changer and  repoint a good chunk of our future. Things like this make me think we are closer than most people imagine if only because climate change is pushing is hard in this direction. Not only are the economics starting to make sense but also the political will to make this a reality before we all roast due to climate change.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>bumbada</author><text>&amp;gt;Thus, every cent spent on this project actually takes us farther away from a renewable-energy future, vs. that same money put into building out wind and solar capacity and storage.&lt;p&gt;I believe you don&amp;#x27;t understand there is a law of diminishing returns on everything. If I spend 10x more on electronic chip research, I don&amp;#x27;t get 10x faster electronics, I get 1.2x, because improving becomes harder and more expensive.&lt;p&gt;The same happens with renevables. There is real state for solar and wind, places with lots of solar light and access to cheap refrigeration, like Algeria or Morocco, or places with lots of wind like the US Great Planes. Once you build on this real state, energy is way more expensive and it gives you worse returns.&lt;p&gt;On the contrary, it is a very good idea to explore different fields, because it is extremely cheap(the investment in nuclear fusion has been minimal compared to other energy sources) and gives you lots of scientific developments, because of the same law of diminishing returns.&lt;p&gt;It does not need to give you a new energy extraction mechanism. Just exploring what nobody else has done before, like getting plasmas at millions of degrees, have always provided scientific breakthroughs in the past.&lt;p&gt;Just putting all your eggs in one basket is not a good strategy.</text></comment>
<story><title>Chinese ‘Artificial Sun’ experimental fusion reactor sets world record</title><url>https://nation.com.pk/29-May-2021/chinese-artificial-sun-experimental-fusion-reactor-sets-world-record-for-superheated-plasma-time</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>ncmncm</author><text>It is a real achievement in plasma fluid dynamics engineering to have got a stable plasma so hot for so long.&lt;p&gt;However, it does not mean there will &lt;i&gt;ever&lt;/i&gt; be practical, commercially competitive power produced using this method or anything much like it. The total mass of material fusing in a reasonable volume is so small that, despite the large amount of energy per nucleus fused, the power produced is nowhere near what would be needed to pay for plant construction, never mind operation and maintenance--not to speak of having to replace all the most expensive parts after minimal use, as they are destroyed by neutron irradiation.&lt;p&gt;Thus, every cent spent on this project actually takes us farther away from a renewable-energy future, vs. that same money put into building out wind and solar capacity and storage.&lt;p&gt;This is a fundamental problem in any hot-neutron fusion system. The real reason governments pour so much money into Tokamak fusion projects is as jobs programs for hot-neutron physicists, and subsidy for contractors, to keep them all ready for when they will be tapped for weapons work.&lt;p&gt;This is similar to the way NASA is still funding SLS: nobody expects it ever to be useful for anything, but the contractors involved need to be kept busy and employing staff for when a new missile system is needed.&lt;p&gt;There are lots of probably-practical ideas for aneutronic fusion that don&amp;#x27;t get peanuts because they fail to provide a conduit for funding to thd right places. E.g. D-H3 fusion in FRC may well be practical for spacecraft propulsion, but development is on a shoestring budget, hoping to test something in maybe 2035.</text></item><item><author>jtchang</author><text>Seeing humanity achieve net fusion in my lifetime would be a total game changer and  repoint a good chunk of our future. Things like this make me think we are closer than most people imagine if only because climate change is pushing is hard in this direction. Not only are the economics starting to make sense but also the political will to make this a reality before we all roast due to climate change.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rossjudson</author><text>I think what you&amp;#x27;re saying is that we should let the Sun do fusion because it&amp;#x27;s really good at that, and we should do photovoltaics and wind because we&amp;#x27;re really good at that, and maybe leaving fusion on the Sun where it belongs is sensible.</text></comment>