<story><title>Dealing with China Isn’t Worth the Moral Cost</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/opinion/china-houston-rockets.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>augstein</author><text>I guess one thing that is obvious, is that an oppressive country like China can never win the race to attract the brightest, most creative minds. Nowadays people have options on where to live and from what I can see, these kind of people mostly prefer to live in more liberal societies.</text></item><item><author>riffraff</author><text>&amp;gt;  moral leverage is what you need in the long term; they can never become a superpower.&lt;p&gt;I do not understand what you mean by this, and what long term is to you. I want to be convinced, but I fail to see this as true.&lt;p&gt;What would be a superpower in your eyes, and which of the past examples of morally problematic powers (USSR, British&amp;#x2F;Spanish&amp;#x2F;Portuguese&amp;#x2F;French empires,for example) do you consider not to meet the definition, or not to have been &amp;quot;long term&amp;quot;?</text></item><item><author>spectramax</author><text>In this light of recent heat up of issues with China, I want to share a positive story to contrast: I had a daily driver in Chengdu for over 1 month who spoke no English, zero, none at all - not even &amp;quot;yes&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;. We communicated via Google translate (on VPN). He would play Chinese music and then some days I would play some American rock and roll. We bonded in inexplicable ways. I had always commented on how I love the carved wooden letter that hangs on the taxi&amp;#x27;s rear-view mirror. The ride was almost 1 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening back to the Hotel. We became friends. On the last day, he took the wooden ornament off, cupped it in his palm, held it against his chest, gave it to me with a glimmer in his eyes. Fuck, that was the most amazing human connection I&amp;#x27;ve ever made.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve worked in China in the semiconductor business, stayed there and absorbed some of the things the west does not even know. I recommend reading &amp;quot;Poorly Made in China (2011)&amp;quot; by Paul Midler. It is &lt;i&gt;surprisingly&lt;/i&gt; good - factual, objective look of deep issues with China&amp;#x27;s way of doing things. I resonate with the book with my personal experience.&lt;p&gt;Diplomacy is about being able to negotiate well, build trust and foster long term relationships, acknowledge mutual interests, differences and work towards solutions to problems. China has lost the brand image, probably forever. Despite a few positive experiences on the individual level, I hate working with Chinese businesses and would never want to go there. Fuck the Chinese government and its tentacles (Chinese corporations). The Chinese leadership does not understand that leadership is about inspiring others, taking care of the weak, keeping your promises and being able to independently think, innovate and set an example for other nations to follow. The way it is going, I can guarantee with certainty that they can have all the financial leverage, moral leverage is what you need in the long term; they can never become a superpower.&lt;p&gt;Edit: grammar</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>goatinaboat</author><text>&lt;i&gt;I guess one thing that is obvious, is that an oppressive country like China can never win the race to attract the brightest, most creative minds.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;They have over a billion people have have made significant investments over decades to indoctrinate nationalistic fervour. They have zero need to attract anyone. By statistics alone they have more “bright, creative” people than US+UK+EU combined, and far greater willingness to employ those people for national goals. The same people we have working on adtech and similar nonsense.</text></comment>
<story><title>Dealing with China Isn’t Worth the Moral Cost</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/opinion/china-houston-rockets.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>augstein</author><text>I guess one thing that is obvious, is that an oppressive country like China can never win the race to attract the brightest, most creative minds. Nowadays people have options on where to live and from what I can see, these kind of people mostly prefer to live in more liberal societies.</text></item><item><author>riffraff</author><text>&amp;gt;  moral leverage is what you need in the long term; they can never become a superpower.&lt;p&gt;I do not understand what you mean by this, and what long term is to you. I want to be convinced, but I fail to see this as true.&lt;p&gt;What would be a superpower in your eyes, and which of the past examples of morally problematic powers (USSR, British&amp;#x2F;Spanish&amp;#x2F;Portuguese&amp;#x2F;French empires,for example) do you consider not to meet the definition, or not to have been &amp;quot;long term&amp;quot;?</text></item><item><author>spectramax</author><text>In this light of recent heat up of issues with China, I want to share a positive story to contrast: I had a daily driver in Chengdu for over 1 month who spoke no English, zero, none at all - not even &amp;quot;yes&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;. We communicated via Google translate (on VPN). He would play Chinese music and then some days I would play some American rock and roll. We bonded in inexplicable ways. I had always commented on how I love the carved wooden letter that hangs on the taxi&amp;#x27;s rear-view mirror. The ride was almost 1 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening back to the Hotel. We became friends. On the last day, he took the wooden ornament off, cupped it in his palm, held it against his chest, gave it to me with a glimmer in his eyes. Fuck, that was the most amazing human connection I&amp;#x27;ve ever made.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve worked in China in the semiconductor business, stayed there and absorbed some of the things the west does not even know. I recommend reading &amp;quot;Poorly Made in China (2011)&amp;quot; by Paul Midler. It is &lt;i&gt;surprisingly&lt;/i&gt; good - factual, objective look of deep issues with China&amp;#x27;s way of doing things. I resonate with the book with my personal experience.&lt;p&gt;Diplomacy is about being able to negotiate well, build trust and foster long term relationships, acknowledge mutual interests, differences and work towards solutions to problems. China has lost the brand image, probably forever. Despite a few positive experiences on the individual level, I hate working with Chinese businesses and would never want to go there. Fuck the Chinese government and its tentacles (Chinese corporations). The Chinese leadership does not understand that leadership is about inspiring others, taking care of the weak, keeping your promises and being able to independently think, innovate and set an example for other nations to follow. The way it is going, I can guarantee with certainty that they can have all the financial leverage, moral leverage is what you need in the long term; they can never become a superpower.&lt;p&gt;Edit: grammar</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>nearbuy</author><text>Would they even need to attract foreigners? They have more people than all of North America and Europe combined.</text></comment>