<story><title>Germany Turns to Hydrogen in Quest for Clean Energy Economy</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-02/germany-turns-to-hydrogen-in-quest-for-clean-energy-economy</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>kiba</author><text>I have no idea why auto companies are still pursuing hydrogen cars when BEV is just better?</text></item><item><author>jillesvangurp</author><text>BMW just appointed a new CEO who is supposed to come up with a strategy that apparently they expect to still involve hydrogen cars. They have been partnering with Toyota on hydrogen fuel cells. The last CEO kind of failed on the BEV front after launching the i3 and then failing to follow through with more&amp;#x2F;better cars. His failure on this front is widely cited as the key reason for being replaced as they are feeling the pressure now from other manufacturers (Tesla, VW, Mercedes, etc.). The new CEO is apparently under a lot of pressure to start announcing things that are not lame concept cars to reassure investors that they are still relevant.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t see a big hydrogen movement happening in Germany any time soon no matter what the wishful thinking on that is at BMW and elsewhere. What I do see is two of the three car manufacturers flooding the market with BEVs in the next five years. They&amp;#x27;ve been a bit slow to catch up to Tesla but VW and Mercedes seem to be quite serious about ramping up production.</text></item><item><author>hannob</author><text>It is often interesting how things are framed in international media when you know the local discussion.&lt;p&gt;To put this in perspective: The role of hydrogen in the German energy system is extremely small. There are a couple of test plants, but that&amp;#x27;s about it.
Yeah, lately there have been a few calls for more investments in that area, some articles discussing a larger role in the future. But it&amp;#x27;s certainly not at the center of the debate. The headline seems heavily overblown.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>neals</author><text>Because the power grid and city infrastructure do not allow for enough (fast) charging-points. In some European cities, for government BEV goals to be achieved, over 700 charging points have to be placed, every single day, for 5 years.&lt;p&gt;Now imagine a charging point using more electricity than your avarage household.&lt;p&gt;The grid is not ready for this and upgrading it might not be the best option.&lt;p&gt;Also know that there is up to 50% loss of electricity when transporting over long distances (like from wind-farm to the city).&lt;p&gt;Last, but not least: charging large vehicles like busses or trucks take a long time (and a lot of energy) time that is paid for by the company.&lt;p&gt;Now look at hydrogen: Produced and stored at decentralized locations, distributed through existing infrastructure, available at existing gas stations: Less stress on the grid, shorter charging times. Produce it where and when is most beneficial, store and transport it to when and where it is required.&lt;p&gt;I could go on. And probably somebody could go on with a lot of counter points.&lt;p&gt;However, this just states that &amp;#x27;BEV are just better&amp;#x27;, as you stated, is just not as simple as just that.&lt;p&gt;We are in a mobility and energy transition: Nothing about this is going to be easy.&lt;p&gt;Full disclosure: I operate both a corridor of electric car chargers and a hydrogen fueling station in Europe.</text></comment>
<story><title>Germany Turns to Hydrogen in Quest for Clean Energy Economy</title><url>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-02/germany-turns-to-hydrogen-in-quest-for-clean-energy-economy</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>kiba</author><text>I have no idea why auto companies are still pursuing hydrogen cars when BEV is just better?</text></item><item><author>jillesvangurp</author><text>BMW just appointed a new CEO who is supposed to come up with a strategy that apparently they expect to still involve hydrogen cars. They have been partnering with Toyota on hydrogen fuel cells. The last CEO kind of failed on the BEV front after launching the i3 and then failing to follow through with more&amp;#x2F;better cars. His failure on this front is widely cited as the key reason for being replaced as they are feeling the pressure now from other manufacturers (Tesla, VW, Mercedes, etc.). The new CEO is apparently under a lot of pressure to start announcing things that are not lame concept cars to reassure investors that they are still relevant.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t see a big hydrogen movement happening in Germany any time soon no matter what the wishful thinking on that is at BMW and elsewhere. What I do see is two of the three car manufacturers flooding the market with BEVs in the next five years. They&amp;#x27;ve been a bit slow to catch up to Tesla but VW and Mercedes seem to be quite serious about ramping up production.</text></item><item><author>hannob</author><text>It is often interesting how things are framed in international media when you know the local discussion.&lt;p&gt;To put this in perspective: The role of hydrogen in the German energy system is extremely small. There are a couple of test plants, but that&amp;#x27;s about it.
Yeah, lately there have been a few calls for more investments in that area, some articles discussing a larger role in the future. But it&amp;#x27;s certainly not at the center of the debate. The headline seems heavily overblown.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>groestl</author><text>Auto companies that do this are essentialy motor engine companies. At their core, the structure is aligned to the R&amp;amp;D and supply chain required to build a complex machine with thousands of small parts. BEVs threaten this model, as the components are much simpler and require a different organizational structure. Hydrogen engines, in contrast, do not (or to a much lesser extend) so the relevant actors are more inclined to push this idea.</text></comment>