<story><title>Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only</title><url>http://bropages.org/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>rds2000</author><text>What creates a hostile environment for woman is where a sector, made of predominately men is scrutinized with a hysterical &amp;quot;boy who cried wolf&amp;quot; mentality.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s a vicious cycle.&lt;p&gt;1. First there is a tiny group of feminists, mostly consisting of marketers, call themselves coders, but if you were look them up, they&amp;#x27;re twittering and having fun more than building. They seem very happy to stir indignation.&lt;p&gt;2. Then, people in positions of power bend toward the illegitimate trolls who cried wolf. I&amp;#x27;m talking, the word &amp;quot;meritocracy&amp;quot; being offensive by github CEO [1], python board members referring to geekfeminism.org as a charter [2] for pycon conferences.&lt;p&gt;Pack up and go home, these are the leaders, the chiefs, the alphas of engineers - and they are cowing down to politically correct trolls on twitter, who aren&amp;#x27;t even participants to the causes.&lt;p&gt;Twitter and blogs allow anyone to claim to be anything. You used to need a degree to Marketer! Now any girl with an iPhone can be one! Twitter lets anyone call themselves a programmer.&lt;p&gt;However, Github holds people accountable for actually having to program - funny how meritocracy came up as a bad word to these people!&lt;p&gt;What is really creating a hostile work environment for woman? I can tell you, men who stay silent watching this bogus stuff happen, woman with legitimate skill and talent may be cast off as a liability.&lt;p&gt;Consider this: if you are a woman, and you would let a bad joke ruin someone&amp;#x27;s life, or abuse politically correct sympathy as a female to get benefits - is that going to help your cause? If you are a leader or boss, and you let these trolls shape you - You lack backbone. I feel this is a lack of integrity, and they&amp;#x27;re not fit to lead.&lt;p&gt;I hope leaders set an example and not feed these attention trolls and call their crap out. These are woman creating a hostile environment for woman who would otherwise feel grateful to earn their way and belong.&lt;p&gt;[1]: &lt;a href=&quot;https://twitter.com/defunkt/statuses/426104782894284800&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;twitter.com&amp;#x2F;defunkt&amp;#x2F;statuses&amp;#x2F;426104782894284800&lt;/a&gt;
[2]: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;jessenoller.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;2012&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;7&amp;#x2F;the-code-of-conduct&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>glesica</author><text>It is offensive because it has high potential to create a hostile environment for women. This isn&amp;#x27;t just me and a few people making shit up, read my comment, it&amp;#x27;s obvious that the authors &lt;i&gt;knew&lt;/i&gt; they were on shaky ground. They tried to defuse the situation with a cute little comment, but it would have been better to just change the name.&lt;p&gt;Read this comment for a better explanation if you&amp;#x27;re actually confused: &lt;a href=&quot;https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7121717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=7121717&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>overgard</author><text>In what way is this sexist? There is not a single word of disparagement on that site. Nobody in their right mind would say that the word &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot; is sexist unless they&amp;#x27;re explicitly looking to be offended. (IE: picking a fight)</text></item><item><author>glesica</author><text>Another offended man checking in. Why is it so hard to accept that sexist language and actions are offensive to men?&lt;p&gt;I suspect that most people would agree that white people can be offended by the use of terms like &amp;quot;nigger&amp;quot;, or jokes about slavery. So then why can&amp;#x27;t men be offended by misogynistic language or jokes that are likely to create a hostile environment for women?&lt;p&gt;I clicked, I saw the name and was a little turned off but thought maybe it was just a clever shortening of a reasonable word I hadn&amp;#x27;t thought of (the way &amp;quot;man&amp;quot; is short for &amp;quot;manual&amp;quot;).&lt;p&gt;Then I saw the &amp;quot;girls are bros too&amp;quot; thing and I realized that nope, the authors are just insensitive at best, jackasses at worst. They saw the complaints coming, but they thought it was more important to make some sort of off-color joke than to have their product taken seriously as the useful tool it could be.</text></item><item><author>overgard</author><text>Absolutely, lets throw away our sense of humor and wordplay because there are theoretically people that might be offended (maybe, kindof. You know. In theory.).&lt;p&gt;(N.B. the people that seem to be offended so far are offended on other peoples behalf..)&lt;p&gt;Isn&amp;#x27;t it way more offensive to assume that women are such dainty delicate creatures that like, they won&amp;#x27;t get the joke?</text></item><item><author>blahedo</author><text>Great idea; shame about the name.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s the problem with using words like &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot; (however jokingly): the problem is not with what &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt;[0] are thinking when you read the word &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot;, but with what &lt;i&gt;other people&lt;/i&gt;, especially newcomers, are thinking.  The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficult stuff that &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; has to learn to be CS types, they&amp;#x27;ll also have to deal with a constant barrage of &amp;quot;you&amp;#x27;re not our kind&amp;quot; flung at them by the in-group.  &lt;i&gt;You personally&lt;/i&gt; may not be intending that as your message, but I assure you that your personal intent does not matter when you are using language that has been associated with exclusion and discrimination.[1]&lt;p&gt;The problem here, if this program is actually intended to be used, is that just typing in the command would be a &lt;i&gt;constant reminder&lt;/i&gt; of an entire subculture that is widely seen as[2] putting up walls and doors that say &amp;quot;NO GIЯLS ALOUD&amp;quot; around the programming profession, an attempt to preserve privilege.  Those of you suggesting an alias are either being disingenuous or missing the point entirely.&lt;p&gt;[0] Meaning individuals, of whatever gender&amp;#x2F;race&amp;#x2F;class&amp;#x2F;whatever, that are likely to be reading HN.&lt;p&gt;[1] If you don&amp;#x27;t believe me, ponder for a moment sentences like, &amp;quot;But I like Negroes just fine!&amp;quot;  Language matters.&lt;p&gt;[2] Again, &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; might not mean to reference that when you use words like &amp;quot;brogrammer&amp;quot;.  But it&amp;#x27;s how an awful lot of us read it.&lt;p&gt;EDIT: Rereading other posts on this page, I should add that I almost certainly got the phrase &amp;quot;shame about the name&amp;quot; stuck in my head from reading dewitt&amp;#x27;s post.  Four words, such a concise summary of my attitude! :)&lt;p&gt;EDIT 2: &amp;quot;they&amp;#x27;ll have&amp;quot; -&amp;gt; &amp;quot;that &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; has&amp;quot; to clarify argument.  Thx vezzy-fnord.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>KuraFire</author><text>Hey dude, here&amp;#x27;s a hint: perhaps these women are arguing on social media because guys like you fail to give them the basic modicum of respect as a human being, and they have to spend time fighting to be respected, which takes away from their time to build stuff. Whereas, unlike your privileged life wherein people don&amp;#x27;t fundamentally deny you basic human respect, you have plenty of time to spend on doing things you enjoy, rather than getting people to treat you like an equal human being.&lt;p&gt;Beyond that, the entire rest of your comment reeks of sexist views (prejudiced biases against women), so I’m probably already wasting my time trying to get you to open your mind slightly to the possibility that perhaps nobody here is &amp;quot;cowing&amp;quot; to anyone, that being &amp;quot;politically correct&amp;quot; is actually the admirable and proper way of being a decent human being (aka &amp;quot;not being an asshole&amp;quot;), that people favor those leaders who listen to complaints from within their communities rather than those who behave like dicks and tell huge numbers of people to go away, like you&amp;#x27;re suggesting. But if you entertain these ideas for some time and express a genuine desire to learn, rather than find support for your skewed and misinformed perspectives on how the industry (and society) works in the dark recesses of a community that was once full of people sharing your harmful worldview, then I&amp;#x27;m happy to answer any questions you might have.</text></comment>
<story><title>Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only</title><url>http://bropages.org/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>rds2000</author><text>What creates a hostile environment for woman is where a sector, made of predominately men is scrutinized with a hysterical &amp;quot;boy who cried wolf&amp;quot; mentality.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s a vicious cycle.&lt;p&gt;1. First there is a tiny group of feminists, mostly consisting of marketers, call themselves coders, but if you were look them up, they&amp;#x27;re twittering and having fun more than building. They seem very happy to stir indignation.&lt;p&gt;2. Then, people in positions of power bend toward the illegitimate trolls who cried wolf. I&amp;#x27;m talking, the word &amp;quot;meritocracy&amp;quot; being offensive by github CEO [1], python board members referring to geekfeminism.org as a charter [2] for pycon conferences.&lt;p&gt;Pack up and go home, these are the leaders, the chiefs, the alphas of engineers - and they are cowing down to politically correct trolls on twitter, who aren&amp;#x27;t even participants to the causes.&lt;p&gt;Twitter and blogs allow anyone to claim to be anything. You used to need a degree to Marketer! Now any girl with an iPhone can be one! Twitter lets anyone call themselves a programmer.&lt;p&gt;However, Github holds people accountable for actually having to program - funny how meritocracy came up as a bad word to these people!&lt;p&gt;What is really creating a hostile work environment for woman? I can tell you, men who stay silent watching this bogus stuff happen, woman with legitimate skill and talent may be cast off as a liability.&lt;p&gt;Consider this: if you are a woman, and you would let a bad joke ruin someone&amp;#x27;s life, or abuse politically correct sympathy as a female to get benefits - is that going to help your cause? If you are a leader or boss, and you let these trolls shape you - You lack backbone. I feel this is a lack of integrity, and they&amp;#x27;re not fit to lead.&lt;p&gt;I hope leaders set an example and not feed these attention trolls and call their crap out. These are woman creating a hostile environment for woman who would otherwise feel grateful to earn their way and belong.&lt;p&gt;[1]: &lt;a href=&quot;https://twitter.com/defunkt/statuses/426104782894284800&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;twitter.com&amp;#x2F;defunkt&amp;#x2F;statuses&amp;#x2F;426104782894284800&lt;/a&gt;
[2]: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jessenoller.com/blog/2012/12/7/the-code-of-conduct&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;jessenoller.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;2012&amp;#x2F;12&amp;#x2F;7&amp;#x2F;the-code-of-conduct&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>glesica</author><text>It is offensive because it has high potential to create a hostile environment for women. This isn&amp;#x27;t just me and a few people making shit up, read my comment, it&amp;#x27;s obvious that the authors &lt;i&gt;knew&lt;/i&gt; they were on shaky ground. They tried to defuse the situation with a cute little comment, but it would have been better to just change the name.&lt;p&gt;Read this comment for a better explanation if you&amp;#x27;re actually confused: &lt;a href=&quot;https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7121717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=7121717&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>overgard</author><text>In what way is this sexist? There is not a single word of disparagement on that site. Nobody in their right mind would say that the word &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot; is sexist unless they&amp;#x27;re explicitly looking to be offended. (IE: picking a fight)</text></item><item><author>glesica</author><text>Another offended man checking in. Why is it so hard to accept that sexist language and actions are offensive to men?&lt;p&gt;I suspect that most people would agree that white people can be offended by the use of terms like &amp;quot;nigger&amp;quot;, or jokes about slavery. So then why can&amp;#x27;t men be offended by misogynistic language or jokes that are likely to create a hostile environment for women?&lt;p&gt;I clicked, I saw the name and was a little turned off but thought maybe it was just a clever shortening of a reasonable word I hadn&amp;#x27;t thought of (the way &amp;quot;man&amp;quot; is short for &amp;quot;manual&amp;quot;).&lt;p&gt;Then I saw the &amp;quot;girls are bros too&amp;quot; thing and I realized that nope, the authors are just insensitive at best, jackasses at worst. They saw the complaints coming, but they thought it was more important to make some sort of off-color joke than to have their product taken seriously as the useful tool it could be.</text></item><item><author>overgard</author><text>Absolutely, lets throw away our sense of humor and wordplay because there are theoretically people that might be offended (maybe, kindof. You know. In theory.).&lt;p&gt;(N.B. the people that seem to be offended so far are offended on other peoples behalf..)&lt;p&gt;Isn&amp;#x27;t it way more offensive to assume that women are such dainty delicate creatures that like, they won&amp;#x27;t get the joke?</text></item><item><author>blahedo</author><text>Great idea; shame about the name.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s the problem with using words like &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot; (however jokingly): the problem is not with what &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt;[0] are thinking when you read the word &amp;quot;bro&amp;quot;, but with what &lt;i&gt;other people&lt;/i&gt;, especially newcomers, are thinking.  The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficult stuff that &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; has to learn to be CS types, they&amp;#x27;ll also have to deal with a constant barrage of &amp;quot;you&amp;#x27;re not our kind&amp;quot; flung at them by the in-group.  &lt;i&gt;You personally&lt;/i&gt; may not be intending that as your message, but I assure you that your personal intent does not matter when you are using language that has been associated with exclusion and discrimination.[1]&lt;p&gt;The problem here, if this program is actually intended to be used, is that just typing in the command would be a &lt;i&gt;constant reminder&lt;/i&gt; of an entire subculture that is widely seen as[2] putting up walls and doors that say &amp;quot;NO GIЯLS ALOUD&amp;quot; around the programming profession, an attempt to preserve privilege.  Those of you suggesting an alias are either being disingenuous or missing the point entirely.&lt;p&gt;[0] Meaning individuals, of whatever gender&amp;#x2F;race&amp;#x2F;class&amp;#x2F;whatever, that are likely to be reading HN.&lt;p&gt;[1] If you don&amp;#x27;t believe me, ponder for a moment sentences like, &amp;quot;But I like Negroes just fine!&amp;quot;  Language matters.&lt;p&gt;[2] Again, &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; might not mean to reference that when you use words like &amp;quot;brogrammer&amp;quot;.  But it&amp;#x27;s how an awful lot of us read it.&lt;p&gt;EDIT: Rereading other posts on this page, I should add that I almost certainly got the phrase &amp;quot;shame about the name&amp;quot; stuck in my head from reading dewitt&amp;#x27;s post.  Four words, such a concise summary of my attitude! :)&lt;p&gt;EDIT 2: &amp;quot;they&amp;#x27;ll have&amp;quot; -&amp;gt; &amp;quot;that &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; has&amp;quot; to clarify argument.  Thx vezzy-fnord.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>ceol</author><text>&lt;i&gt;&amp;gt; but if you were look them up, they&amp;#x27;re twittering and having fun more than building.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;The irony of this comment being in a long-winded post on Hacker News is lost, perhaps? You do realize the vast majority of &amp;quot;programmers&amp;quot; aren&amp;#x27;t building 100% of the time.&lt;p&gt;Judging by that and the fact you throw out &amp;quot;feminist&amp;quot; like it&amp;#x27;s an insult, I&amp;#x27;m going to say you&amp;#x27;ve got some pretty heavy bias.</text></comment>