<story><title>We can&apos;t all use AI. Someone has to generate the training data</title><url>https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1635672262903750662</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jollofricepeas</author><text>Art is not the same as potato’s or furniture.&lt;p&gt;What is the market price for a potato?&lt;p&gt;What is the market price for a chair?&lt;p&gt;What is the price of developing an art career over 40 years? Unless you believe that art, music, poetry, literature, and the rest have no value to society then IP protections are what incentives a portion of humanity to do something crazy like go to art school…&lt;p&gt;…instead of you know doing the “responsible” thing and getting a CS degree so you can  one day get an AI gig  stealing “training data” in the name of profit</text></item><item><author>franciscop</author><text>I think we mostly agree here, since for your brother those 10-30 years would work perfectly for him! China breaking copyright is NOT an argument that copyright is good, quite the opposite, it&amp;#x27;s a statement of how broken it is.&lt;p&gt;About the inheritance I disagree, when you are a farmer and sell a potato you sell it once and then it&amp;#x27;s gone, if you are a carpenter you make a furniture piece and sell it and its gone. Why should art be a &amp;quot;legacy&amp;quot; that can be kept selling forever?</text></item><item><author>jollofricepeas</author><text>I disagree completely.&lt;p&gt;My older brother decided to go to art school.&lt;p&gt;It wasn’t until he was 40 that his artwork started to be noticed and worth something.&lt;p&gt;His images have been bootlegged endlessly by Asian companies placing them on t-shirts and selling them for $5 on Etsy and every other marketplace.&lt;p&gt;Fortunately for him, he’s designed a very popular set of kids books that have allowed him to move out of my parents, get a place of his own, pay down debt and buy a house.&lt;p&gt;Intellectual property is how he takes care of his family. He should be able to at least provide for his kids college after his death if his IP still has value in the marketplace.&lt;p&gt;…And so should other creators.&lt;p&gt;Not everyone is Disney.</text></item><item><author>franciscop</author><text>&amp;quot;Intellectual property rights&amp;quot; is a concept made by greedy proprietors to build monopolies and keep competition out. It&amp;#x27;s no chance it was strongly pushed by Disney, and in its current form goes against the society interests as a whole. It is sold maliciously as &amp;quot;it incentivizes creative work&amp;quot;, but how does &amp;quot;life of the author + 50 years&amp;quot; incentivize the author to keep creating? It just incentivizes them to keep exploiting.&lt;p&gt;Now I think we&amp;#x27;d all agree to something more realistic to actually protect authors, like 10-30 years protection from publication. But every time someone brings &amp;quot;copyright! IP!&amp;quot; to ML I just laugh since it&amp;#x27;s one of the more corrupt laws that we have currently.</text></item><item><author>Dalewyn</author><text>Nobody is going to &amp;quot;generate training data&amp;quot; if they get precisely nothing out of it.&lt;p&gt;The complete disregard for intellectual property rights being exhibited by the &amp;quot;AI&amp;quot; community will inevitably come back to bite them in the arse one day.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>franciscop</author><text>I purposefully put furniture because it can be a utilitarian box, or a custom carpentry art piece. Why is your brother art more valuable than a custom table? Or a delicious dish? Or the portrait I buy from the street artist that cannot rent-seek from it? With the best intention, it seems you are biased because we are talking about your brother&amp;#x27;s lifehood (but I&amp;#x27;m still happy to discuss politely).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; IP protections are what incentives a portion of humanity to do something crazy like go to art school&lt;p&gt;Hard disagree, most of the art fields are first a passion and then a profession. People who go to art school is normally because they love it so much that they cannot imagine themselves doing something else, even though they already know it pays little. I&amp;#x27;ve never ever heard of someone going to art school &amp;quot;because of IP protections&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;One of the reasons it&amp;#x27;s so hard to make money is because there&amp;#x27;s many people doing it as a hobby that are already great at it, and so would jump at the chance of getting &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; money for it, leaving people who want to make &lt;i&gt;livable&lt;/i&gt; wages outcompeted. Which is fine, this way society as a whole benefits greatly, sure it&amp;#x27;s unfortunate there are no more people living off it, but in exchange there are many, many amateurs experimenting and doing art, and from time to time one finds a formula that allows them to live off it (or &amp;quot;shills&amp;quot; to corporate).</text></comment>
<story><title>We can&apos;t all use AI. Someone has to generate the training data</title><url>https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1635672262903750662</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jollofricepeas</author><text>Art is not the same as potato’s or furniture.&lt;p&gt;What is the market price for a potato?&lt;p&gt;What is the market price for a chair?&lt;p&gt;What is the price of developing an art career over 40 years? Unless you believe that art, music, poetry, literature, and the rest have no value to society then IP protections are what incentives a portion of humanity to do something crazy like go to art school…&lt;p&gt;…instead of you know doing the “responsible” thing and getting a CS degree so you can  one day get an AI gig  stealing “training data” in the name of profit</text></item><item><author>franciscop</author><text>I think we mostly agree here, since for your brother those 10-30 years would work perfectly for him! China breaking copyright is NOT an argument that copyright is good, quite the opposite, it&amp;#x27;s a statement of how broken it is.&lt;p&gt;About the inheritance I disagree, when you are a farmer and sell a potato you sell it once and then it&amp;#x27;s gone, if you are a carpenter you make a furniture piece and sell it and its gone. Why should art be a &amp;quot;legacy&amp;quot; that can be kept selling forever?</text></item><item><author>jollofricepeas</author><text>I disagree completely.&lt;p&gt;My older brother decided to go to art school.&lt;p&gt;It wasn’t until he was 40 that his artwork started to be noticed and worth something.&lt;p&gt;His images have been bootlegged endlessly by Asian companies placing them on t-shirts and selling them for $5 on Etsy and every other marketplace.&lt;p&gt;Fortunately for him, he’s designed a very popular set of kids books that have allowed him to move out of my parents, get a place of his own, pay down debt and buy a house.&lt;p&gt;Intellectual property is how he takes care of his family. He should be able to at least provide for his kids college after his death if his IP still has value in the marketplace.&lt;p&gt;…And so should other creators.&lt;p&gt;Not everyone is Disney.</text></item><item><author>franciscop</author><text>&amp;quot;Intellectual property rights&amp;quot; is a concept made by greedy proprietors to build monopolies and keep competition out. It&amp;#x27;s no chance it was strongly pushed by Disney, and in its current form goes against the society interests as a whole. It is sold maliciously as &amp;quot;it incentivizes creative work&amp;quot;, but how does &amp;quot;life of the author + 50 years&amp;quot; incentivize the author to keep creating? It just incentivizes them to keep exploiting.&lt;p&gt;Now I think we&amp;#x27;d all agree to something more realistic to actually protect authors, like 10-30 years protection from publication. But every time someone brings &amp;quot;copyright! IP!&amp;quot; to ML I just laugh since it&amp;#x27;s one of the more corrupt laws that we have currently.</text></item><item><author>Dalewyn</author><text>Nobody is going to &amp;quot;generate training data&amp;quot; if they get precisely nothing out of it.&lt;p&gt;The complete disregard for intellectual property rights being exhibited by the &amp;quot;AI&amp;quot; community will inevitably come back to bite them in the arse one day.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>vidarh</author><text>If we go by the average income of a creator, then society indeed considers most of it less valuable than flipping burgers. The average writer for example earns well below minimum wage from their writing.&lt;p&gt;If you want to encourage more creative work, maybe look for other mechanisms, because going into creative work in the hope of making it is pretty much gambling with awful odds.</text></comment>