<story><title>Woman Is Sentenced to 43 Years for Criticizing Thai Monarchy</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/world/asia/thailand-king-lese-majeste.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>brightball</author><text>When reading through the Old Testament I came across something I hadn’t seen before, the Avenger of Blood. Essentially, a family member of a person who was murdered had every right to seek out the killer themselves. There were even rules around it.&lt;p&gt;If you watch the old Disney 3 Musketeers movie, that’s essentially what the man pursuing Countess de Winter for killing his brother is doing.&lt;p&gt;Just the first historical parallel that came to mind on reading this. Similar figures in a family were also responsible for helping other family members who couldn’t find work, gotten sick, etc.&lt;p&gt;The family unit structure historically accounts for a lot.</text></item><item><author>DyslexicAtheist</author><text>The way Thai&amp;#x27;s feel about honor and defamation is a lot more complex and causes friction when the (existing Western) system tries to apply legal rules of how conflict is resolved (and punishment is applied) in an environment where the old values of honor are still valid.&lt;p&gt;when I still lived in the South of Thailand early 90ies we took people diving from Koh Samui, Koh Phan-gan, Koh Tao. The relationship between Thai&amp;#x27;s and the law is a strange one. It&amp;#x27;s almost like there are 2 systems. One for Thais one for &amp;quot;Farang&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;A Thai would not dare to speak ill of the monarchs. They leave the room if a &amp;quot;farang&amp;quot; has had one too many and says something critical (they&amp;#x27;re peace loving but their love of peace might end there). This applies to both the very rich and the very poor.&lt;p&gt;We hired the captain from another region of the South to transport our divers. He was with the company since the day these islands were still 100% jungle and the place belonged to local fishermen. The reason why he left the region was because he had an argument and killed his neighbor. The deal was that he would not get killed only if he left the region and settled without ever returning to his family - this is considered not just shameful but seen as a huge disadvantage to make a living. They settled it without police, lawyer, bailiff, or judge, all among themselves.&lt;p&gt;Our other captain (in charge of the boat that left Koh Phangan) was also the right hand man of the most powerful person on the island. That guy was like a major, or village elder because he owned what was then the only &amp;quot;super market&amp;quot; on the island, and lot of the land. Our captain and &amp;quot;right hand man&amp;quot; to this guy was a devout monk (every year for several months left his wife to sweep the floor in silence in the monastery). He was a family man, highly respected within the community, and it was no secret among Thais that he was also heavily armed and had a body count of 12 people in his short life (late 20ies).&lt;p&gt;While murder is obviously illegal by law in Thailand, it is still used as a way by locals to settle disputes within rural areas of the South. The illegality isn&amp;#x27;t even considered here since in this case they see it as their moral duty which still trumps whatever some judge&amp;#x2F;lawyer&amp;#x27;s definition of justice is who has never before left &lt;i&gt;Krung Thep&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Long story short it&amp;#x27;s quite complex to transform what is still in ways a tribal society into what we call &amp;quot;law-abiding&amp;quot; citizen. Especially when the law contradicts the values of society. And even more so when the existing police force is just a show for the tourists and to the urban population.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>MontagFTB</author><text>The Bible is also rife with passages that talk about justice for the fatherless, the widow, the orphan, and the poor. These are categories of people that by and large have no access to the same channels of justice that strong, large family units had. So the community- especially those in power and able to do something about it- were called to step up and fill in that void.</text></comment>
<story><title>Woman Is Sentenced to 43 Years for Criticizing Thai Monarchy</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/19/world/asia/thailand-king-lese-majeste.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>brightball</author><text>When reading through the Old Testament I came across something I hadn’t seen before, the Avenger of Blood. Essentially, a family member of a person who was murdered had every right to seek out the killer themselves. There were even rules around it.&lt;p&gt;If you watch the old Disney 3 Musketeers movie, that’s essentially what the man pursuing Countess de Winter for killing his brother is doing.&lt;p&gt;Just the first historical parallel that came to mind on reading this. Similar figures in a family were also responsible for helping other family members who couldn’t find work, gotten sick, etc.&lt;p&gt;The family unit structure historically accounts for a lot.</text></item><item><author>DyslexicAtheist</author><text>The way Thai&amp;#x27;s feel about honor and defamation is a lot more complex and causes friction when the (existing Western) system tries to apply legal rules of how conflict is resolved (and punishment is applied) in an environment where the old values of honor are still valid.&lt;p&gt;when I still lived in the South of Thailand early 90ies we took people diving from Koh Samui, Koh Phan-gan, Koh Tao. The relationship between Thai&amp;#x27;s and the law is a strange one. It&amp;#x27;s almost like there are 2 systems. One for Thais one for &amp;quot;Farang&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;A Thai would not dare to speak ill of the monarchs. They leave the room if a &amp;quot;farang&amp;quot; has had one too many and says something critical (they&amp;#x27;re peace loving but their love of peace might end there). This applies to both the very rich and the very poor.&lt;p&gt;We hired the captain from another region of the South to transport our divers. He was with the company since the day these islands were still 100% jungle and the place belonged to local fishermen. The reason why he left the region was because he had an argument and killed his neighbor. The deal was that he would not get killed only if he left the region and settled without ever returning to his family - this is considered not just shameful but seen as a huge disadvantage to make a living. They settled it without police, lawyer, bailiff, or judge, all among themselves.&lt;p&gt;Our other captain (in charge of the boat that left Koh Phangan) was also the right hand man of the most powerful person on the island. That guy was like a major, or village elder because he owned what was then the only &amp;quot;super market&amp;quot; on the island, and lot of the land. Our captain and &amp;quot;right hand man&amp;quot; to this guy was a devout monk (every year for several months left his wife to sweep the floor in silence in the monastery). He was a family man, highly respected within the community, and it was no secret among Thais that he was also heavily armed and had a body count of 12 people in his short life (late 20ies).&lt;p&gt;While murder is obviously illegal by law in Thailand, it is still used as a way by locals to settle disputes within rural areas of the South. The illegality isn&amp;#x27;t even considered here since in this case they see it as their moral duty which still trumps whatever some judge&amp;#x2F;lawyer&amp;#x27;s definition of justice is who has never before left &lt;i&gt;Krung Thep&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Long story short it&amp;#x27;s quite complex to transform what is still in ways a tribal society into what we call &amp;quot;law-abiding&amp;quot; citizen. Especially when the law contradicts the values of society. And even more so when the existing police force is just a show for the tourists and to the urban population.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>DyslexicAtheist</author><text>&amp;gt; The family unit structure historically accounts for a lot.&lt;p&gt;indeed it is interesting how when we compare &amp;quot;Western&amp;quot; society with more tribal norms, how much the individual in the West expects the system to do the things for them where previously family was in charge of. Taking French or German late night news I don&amp;#x27;t recall once that the word &amp;quot;clan&amp;quot; ever used in a positive way. It is always about criminal associations (often about Balkan families) where the attachment of individuals is still stronger within than (the trust) in the state. People are absolutely terrified by the idea of others belonging to a family that knows it&amp;#x27;s roots since 300+ years with an also non-local footprint and reach. Also a clan is usually always a foreign group.</text></comment>