<story><title>How to Crash Systemd in One Command</title><url>https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>korethr</author><text>&amp;gt; I hold no animus towards the systemd project&amp;#x27;s goals or aspirations, but I have yet to hear a compelling reason for systemd to be shipping in it&amp;#x27;s current state.&lt;p&gt;I am, in a way, reminded reminded of PulseAudio. I kept PA of my desktop and laptop for years, having heard about PA being a complex nightmare to configure and make work that caused audio to break. Eventually, there was an application I needed to use that had a hard dependency on PA, so I bit the bullet and installed it. And everything magically Just Worked. My only complaint at the moment is that the pactl command seems more fiddly and verbose than it might need to be.&lt;p&gt;A closer look at the complaints about PA showed that many of them were older. This gives me the impression that PA &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; in fact a steaming pile that broke audio at one point, but eventually matured into something functional and useful.&lt;p&gt;And I think this is where systemd is at present: perhaps a good idea, but its implementation is not yet production ready, and should not be the default on production systems. And the project&amp;#x27;s continued scope creep is working against it in that regard.</text></item><item><author>namecast</author><text>I strongly disagree. I didn&amp;#x27;t need anyone to &amp;quot;show up&amp;quot; to replace my init system in production across several thousand servers, and the way systemd &amp;quot;won&amp;quot; that battle wrt Debian was, to be polite, controversial, political and extremely divisive. They sure as heck didn&amp;#x27;t win because &amp;quot;they showed up and no one else did&amp;quot;. They showed up and RedHat&amp;#x27;s money showed up with them.&lt;p&gt;I hold no animus towards the systemd project&amp;#x27;s goals or aspirations, but I have yet to hear a compelling reason for systemd to be &lt;i&gt;shipping&lt;/i&gt; in it&amp;#x27;s current state.</text></item><item><author>justin_vanw</author><text>It seems like it is quite fashionable to hate on systemd, and it seems like systemd is kindof a piece of crap - in some ways.&lt;p&gt;However, linux is missing basic functionality other os&amp;#x27;s offer, and systemd is showing up and trying to fill in those blanks.  This is open source, if you don&amp;#x27;t like systemd, if you think it&amp;#x27;s crap, if you think there are obviously better ways to do it, well, what are you waiting for then?&lt;p&gt;Systemd is winning because they showed up and basically nobody else did.  It&amp;#x27;s open source fork it and &amp;#x27;do it right&amp;#x27;.  Or point out the problems and hope that someone else will step up instead?&lt;p&gt;I think the world would better place if people spent less time griping and more time fighting to get their patch that fixes the problems merged.  I guess coding is harder than writing blog posts though.&lt;p&gt;EDIT: I&amp;#x27;m not saying systemd is perfect or even good.  My point is that the people writing the code are going to have the final say, whether it&amp;#x27;s right or wrong, and it is unlikely that people writing blog posts lampooning it are really going to make a difference.  I mean systemd has been despised and highly criticized from the beginning, and look where we are.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Twirrim</author><text>PulseAudio took &lt;i&gt;ages&lt;/i&gt; to get to a stable and reliable state.  There are still warts (try and make your machine act as a bluetooth audio receiver.  It&amp;#x27;s horribly ugly.)&lt;p&gt;systemd wasn&amp;#x27;t reliable or fit for purpose for &lt;i&gt;servers&lt;/i&gt; when it got shoehorned in to everything.&lt;p&gt;When it comes to production servers you need stable and reliable.  Not new and shiny.   You&amp;#x27;re ideally rarely having anything happen on the server other than &amp;quot;run this software&amp;quot;</text></comment>
<story><title>How to Crash Systemd in One Command</title><url>https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>korethr</author><text>&amp;gt; I hold no animus towards the systemd project&amp;#x27;s goals or aspirations, but I have yet to hear a compelling reason for systemd to be shipping in it&amp;#x27;s current state.&lt;p&gt;I am, in a way, reminded reminded of PulseAudio. I kept PA of my desktop and laptop for years, having heard about PA being a complex nightmare to configure and make work that caused audio to break. Eventually, there was an application I needed to use that had a hard dependency on PA, so I bit the bullet and installed it. And everything magically Just Worked. My only complaint at the moment is that the pactl command seems more fiddly and verbose than it might need to be.&lt;p&gt;A closer look at the complaints about PA showed that many of them were older. This gives me the impression that PA &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; in fact a steaming pile that broke audio at one point, but eventually matured into something functional and useful.&lt;p&gt;And I think this is where systemd is at present: perhaps a good idea, but its implementation is not yet production ready, and should not be the default on production systems. And the project&amp;#x27;s continued scope creep is working against it in that regard.</text></item><item><author>namecast</author><text>I strongly disagree. I didn&amp;#x27;t need anyone to &amp;quot;show up&amp;quot; to replace my init system in production across several thousand servers, and the way systemd &amp;quot;won&amp;quot; that battle wrt Debian was, to be polite, controversial, political and extremely divisive. They sure as heck didn&amp;#x27;t win because &amp;quot;they showed up and no one else did&amp;quot;. They showed up and RedHat&amp;#x27;s money showed up with them.&lt;p&gt;I hold no animus towards the systemd project&amp;#x27;s goals or aspirations, but I have yet to hear a compelling reason for systemd to be &lt;i&gt;shipping&lt;/i&gt; in it&amp;#x27;s current state.</text></item><item><author>justin_vanw</author><text>It seems like it is quite fashionable to hate on systemd, and it seems like systemd is kindof a piece of crap - in some ways.&lt;p&gt;However, linux is missing basic functionality other os&amp;#x27;s offer, and systemd is showing up and trying to fill in those blanks.  This is open source, if you don&amp;#x27;t like systemd, if you think it&amp;#x27;s crap, if you think there are obviously better ways to do it, well, what are you waiting for then?&lt;p&gt;Systemd is winning because they showed up and basically nobody else did.  It&amp;#x27;s open source fork it and &amp;#x27;do it right&amp;#x27;.  Or point out the problems and hope that someone else will step up instead?&lt;p&gt;I think the world would better place if people spent less time griping and more time fighting to get their patch that fixes the problems merged.  I guess coding is harder than writing blog posts though.&lt;p&gt;EDIT: I&amp;#x27;m not saying systemd is perfect or even good.  My point is that the people writing the code are going to have the final say, whether it&amp;#x27;s right or wrong, and it is unlikely that people writing blog posts lampooning it are really going to make a difference.  I mean systemd has been despised and highly criticized from the beginning, and look where we are.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>digi_owl</author><text>Best i can tell, Poettering cooked up PA back when ALSAs dmix was something you manually enabled on cheap soundchips.&lt;p&gt;Frankly i think it would have gone nowhere if Canonical didn&amp;#x27;t decide they needed to copy Windows&amp;#x27; &amp;quot;one volume slider pr program&amp;quot; thingy that was introduced in Windows 7 or there about.&lt;p&gt;Note btw that these days Poettering is no longer involved with PA development.&lt;p&gt;BTW, the main goal of systemd seems to be to create a single baseline for desktop Linux in code rather than spec.&lt;p&gt;It is a &amp;quot;continuation&amp;quot; of the -kit mentality that spawned within Freedesktop (or frankly within Fedora, at it seems said distro is basically the Petrie dish for anything under the Freedesktop umbrella).</text></comment>