<story><title>Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers</title><url>https://gizmodo.com/celsius-execs-cashed-out-bitcoin-price-crypto-ponzi-1849623526</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>pazimzadeh</author><text>Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It&amp;#x27;s literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems.&lt;p&gt;Also, I don&amp;#x27;t know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.</text></item><item><author>jedberg</author><text>It doesn&amp;#x27;t prevent it, but it gives you recourse to make yourself whole again, and in a sense prevents a lot of funny business because people are afraid of getting caught and being put in jail.</text></item><item><author>pazimzadeh</author><text>Huh? If that was true then it would be services like AAVE or Uniswap which would be bankrupt, not the centralized finance Celsius.&lt;p&gt;The idea that the traditional legal system prevents funny business with money is naive.&lt;p&gt;9&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.youtube.com&amp;#x2F;watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.youtube.com&amp;#x2F;watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Pentagon’s $35 Trillion Accounting Black Hole
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yahoo.com&amp;#x2F;video&amp;#x2F;pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-black-231154593.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yahoo.com&amp;#x2F;video&amp;#x2F;pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-...&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2020-01-22&amp;#x2F;pentagon-racks-up-35-trillion-in-accounting-changes-in-one-year&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2020-01-22&amp;#x2F;pentagon-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Pentagon&amp;#x27;s Defense Logistics Agency loses track of $800m
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bbc.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;world-us-canada-42954050&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bbc.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;world-us-canada-42954050&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>jedberg</author><text>Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn&amp;#x27;t backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns).&lt;p&gt;The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right.  And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn&amp;#x27;t listen to the legal system, there are people with guns&amp;#x2F;violence to back that up.  That&amp;#x27;s why the whole system works -- because of the threat of violence.&lt;p&gt;Crypto doesn&amp;#x27;t have that.  It has a lot of advantages (I use crypto myself) but it also has a big disadvantage, for now.&lt;p&gt;When the USA starts issuing it&amp;#x27;s own crypto they might solve this problem by requiring KYC to get the coins, but then of course you loose the anonymity aspect.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>eropple</author><text>&lt;i&gt;&amp;gt; How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It&amp;#x27;s literally perfect for finance&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Because modern legal systems and modern economies work on the assumption that malfeasance is a reason to un-do what crypto systems want to make indelible. This is an &lt;i&gt;obvious and obviously good&lt;/i&gt; thing to people who are not absorbed by this odd groupthink. That impedance mismatch is an excellent indicator of why this technology is viewed as stuff for cranks and grifters, even were there useful applications to be had for the public.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&amp;gt; Also, I don&amp;#x27;t know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;...while at the same time the crypto community is wracked by disposable entities fleeing into the night, beyond any practical legal reach.&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, if somebody compromises your debit card, Bank of America will make you whole while they reverse the transactions on the backend.</text></comment>
<story><title>Celsius Execs Cashed Out $40M in Crypto Before Halting Withdrawals for Customers</title><url>https://gizmodo.com/celsius-execs-cashed-out-bitcoin-price-crypto-ponzi-1849623526</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>pazimzadeh</author><text>Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me. It&amp;#x27;s literally perfect for finance (especially once multi-sig wallets become common). If Celsius had been more all-in on crypto tech, they would have had FEWER problems.&lt;p&gt;Also, I don&amp;#x27;t know any law that exempts crypto companies from being taken to court.</text></item><item><author>jedberg</author><text>It doesn&amp;#x27;t prevent it, but it gives you recourse to make yourself whole again, and in a sense prevents a lot of funny business because people are afraid of getting caught and being put in jail.</text></item><item><author>pazimzadeh</author><text>Huh? If that was true then it would be services like AAVE or Uniswap which would be bankrupt, not the centralized finance Celsius.&lt;p&gt;The idea that the traditional legal system prevents funny business with money is naive.&lt;p&gt;9&amp;#x2F;10&amp;#x2F;2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from Pentagon
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.youtube.com&amp;#x2F;watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.youtube.com&amp;#x2F;watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Pentagon’s $35 Trillion Accounting Black Hole
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yahoo.com&amp;#x2F;video&amp;#x2F;pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-black-231154593.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yahoo.com&amp;#x2F;video&amp;#x2F;pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-...&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2020-01-22&amp;#x2F;pentagon-racks-up-35-trillion-in-accounting-changes-in-one-year&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;2020-01-22&amp;#x2F;pentagon-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Pentagon&amp;#x27;s Defense Logistics Agency loses track of $800m
&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bbc.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;world-us-canada-42954050&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bbc.com&amp;#x2F;news&amp;#x2F;world-us-canada-42954050&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>jedberg</author><text>Oh hey look the consequences of a monetary system that isn&amp;#x27;t backed by a legal system (that is backed up by people with guns).&lt;p&gt;The reason fiat money works is because at the end of the day if you run into trouble you have the legal system to make things right.  And if the perpetrator of the crime doesn&amp;#x27;t listen to the legal system, there are people with guns&amp;#x2F;violence to back that up.  That&amp;#x27;s why the whole system works -- because of the threat of violence.&lt;p&gt;Crypto doesn&amp;#x27;t have that.  It has a lot of advantages (I use crypto myself) but it also has a big disadvantage, for now.&lt;p&gt;When the USA starts issuing it&amp;#x27;s own crypto they might solve this problem by requiring KYC to get the coins, but then of course you loose the anonymity aspect.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jedberg</author><text>&amp;gt; Crypto is like the invention of ink that cannot be erased. How that technology would weaken trust and accountability is beyond me.&lt;p&gt;The other important aspect of a working financial system is the ability for a 3rd party (courts&amp;#x2F;law enforcement) to undo transactions.  Crypto makes that impossible without the cooperation of the offender.</text></comment>