<story><title>I&apos;m tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit</title><url>https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>DCKing</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m beating a dead horse at this point, but there&amp;#x27;s no such thing as &amp;quot;switching to Wayland&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;What most people mean when they &amp;quot;switch to Wayland&amp;quot; is that they&amp;#x27;re switching from Gnome on X11 to a &amp;quot;pure Gnome&amp;quot; stack that uses Wayland and a bunch of other Freedesktop standards for interopability. There is absolutely no code from the &amp;quot;Wayland project&amp;quot; running there, because the Wayland implementation is Gnome&amp;#x27;s own (it&amp;#x27;s called Mutter). Similarly, KDE&amp;#x27;s implementation is in KWin itself. The source article is from an author of yet another window manager (Sway) implementing Wayland.&lt;p&gt;What you&amp;#x27;re observing is not &amp;quot;Wayland not being there yet&amp;quot;, it&amp;#x27;s &lt;i&gt;Gnome not being there yet&lt;/i&gt;. All of these deficiencies have nothing to do with Wayland itself: they&amp;#x27;re general QA issues that plague an underfunded Linux desktop that&amp;#x27;s making a slow technology transition.</text></item><item><author>londons_explore</author><text>Every 6 months I try switching to Wayland.  I spend an hour or so using it for regular desktop gnome use and fixing minor bugs (ie. The kind I can fix with a config tweak).  I then switch back again because it just isn&amp;#x27;t there yet.&lt;p&gt;Recent issues:&lt;p&gt;* The brightness control for my screen doesn&amp;#x27;t work with it.&lt;p&gt;* The mouse sometimes lags&lt;p&gt;* Graphical corruption in Chromium when on webgl sites.&lt;p&gt;* Blank screen after resume from hibernate.&lt;p&gt;* Seems to randomly freeze forever sometimes after an OOM killer run.&lt;p&gt;* Chromecast wouldn&amp;#x27;t work</text></item><item><author>AnIdiotOnTheNet</author><text>&amp;gt; In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you.&lt;p&gt;That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago.&lt;p&gt;If you insist on disregarding people&amp;#x27;s use cases, don&amp;#x27;t be surprised they don&amp;#x27;t like your software. I&amp;#x27;ve been down this road a lot with FOSS software: &amp;quot;I don&amp;#x27;t use it because it doesn&amp;#x27;t do what I need&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sure it does!&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no, it really doesn&amp;#x27;t&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;well you don&amp;#x27;t need that anyway!&amp;quot;...&lt;p&gt;On the whole however, I can certainly understand the frustration at having to deal with a community that gets annoyed at anything that changes simply because they&amp;#x27;re already so used to the garbage pile they have that they now hold the delusion that it&amp;#x27;s actually not garbage.&lt;p&gt;In my admittedly somewhat distanced opinion, Wayland&amp;#x27;s biggest mistakes were not launching with a coherent strategy for replicating functionality like screen sharing, screenshots, and to a lesser extent remote desktop&amp;#x2F;applications. They just punted and said &amp;quot;that&amp;#x27;s a compositor problem!&amp;quot; as though that was supposed to make it ok. People have thus harbored some inherent resentment ever since.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>corty</author><text>It is actually one of the big, unfixable, conceptual problems of Wayland that all the effort is duplicated in each compositor. The Wayland concept pushes out most of the work to the DEs. That of course will result in tons of predictable inconsistency, incompatibility, bugs, delays, consolidations and general pain. Wayland devs are then generally in the lazy &amp;quot;worksforme, use sway (or whatever)&amp;quot; position while the user (of some other compositor) will be out there complaining to yet another maintainer duplicating yet another feature badly. Lather, rinse, repeat.&lt;p&gt;Wayland is bad design, and it shows in the users&amp;#x27; and maintainers&amp;#x27; attrition.</text></comment>
<story><title>I&apos;m tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit</title><url>https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>DCKing</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m beating a dead horse at this point, but there&amp;#x27;s no such thing as &amp;quot;switching to Wayland&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;What most people mean when they &amp;quot;switch to Wayland&amp;quot; is that they&amp;#x27;re switching from Gnome on X11 to a &amp;quot;pure Gnome&amp;quot; stack that uses Wayland and a bunch of other Freedesktop standards for interopability. There is absolutely no code from the &amp;quot;Wayland project&amp;quot; running there, because the Wayland implementation is Gnome&amp;#x27;s own (it&amp;#x27;s called Mutter). Similarly, KDE&amp;#x27;s implementation is in KWin itself. The source article is from an author of yet another window manager (Sway) implementing Wayland.&lt;p&gt;What you&amp;#x27;re observing is not &amp;quot;Wayland not being there yet&amp;quot;, it&amp;#x27;s &lt;i&gt;Gnome not being there yet&lt;/i&gt;. All of these deficiencies have nothing to do with Wayland itself: they&amp;#x27;re general QA issues that plague an underfunded Linux desktop that&amp;#x27;s making a slow technology transition.</text></item><item><author>londons_explore</author><text>Every 6 months I try switching to Wayland.  I spend an hour or so using it for regular desktop gnome use and fixing minor bugs (ie. The kind I can fix with a config tweak).  I then switch back again because it just isn&amp;#x27;t there yet.&lt;p&gt;Recent issues:&lt;p&gt;* The brightness control for my screen doesn&amp;#x27;t work with it.&lt;p&gt;* The mouse sometimes lags&lt;p&gt;* Graphical corruption in Chromium when on webgl sites.&lt;p&gt;* Blank screen after resume from hibernate.&lt;p&gt;* Seems to randomly freeze forever sometimes after an OOM killer run.&lt;p&gt;* Chromecast wouldn&amp;#x27;t work</text></item><item><author>AnIdiotOnTheNet</author><text>&amp;gt; In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you.&lt;p&gt;That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago.&lt;p&gt;If you insist on disregarding people&amp;#x27;s use cases, don&amp;#x27;t be surprised they don&amp;#x27;t like your software. I&amp;#x27;ve been down this road a lot with FOSS software: &amp;quot;I don&amp;#x27;t use it because it doesn&amp;#x27;t do what I need&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;sure it does!&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;no, it really doesn&amp;#x27;t&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;well you don&amp;#x27;t need that anyway!&amp;quot;...&lt;p&gt;On the whole however, I can certainly understand the frustration at having to deal with a community that gets annoyed at anything that changes simply because they&amp;#x27;re already so used to the garbage pile they have that they now hold the delusion that it&amp;#x27;s actually not garbage.&lt;p&gt;In my admittedly somewhat distanced opinion, Wayland&amp;#x27;s biggest mistakes were not launching with a coherent strategy for replicating functionality like screen sharing, screenshots, and to a lesser extent remote desktop&amp;#x2F;applications. They just punted and said &amp;quot;that&amp;#x27;s a compositor problem!&amp;quot; as though that was supposed to make it ok. People have thus harbored some inherent resentment ever since.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>gnulinux</author><text>Why does this distinction matter? Gnome on X works perfectly fine, Gnome on Wayland does not. Why does it matter it to state that Wayland is a protocol, not the implementation?</text></comment>