<story><title>Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars</title><url>http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>maratd</author><text>&amp;gt; Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback&lt;p&gt;Nonsense. You need tactile feedback while driving. You will not be using the center console while driving. You will not even be &lt;i&gt;looking&lt;/i&gt; at it. All of the stuff you need while driving &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; tactile.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line&lt;p&gt;LOL. I sense hurt feelings.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out&lt;p&gt;Why would it need an OBD-2 port when it has an API?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; bad resale value as this article points out&lt;p&gt;Article is wrong. The prices for used vehicles are quite good. Confirm yourself.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; literally having your head touch the car roof if you&amp;#x27;re over five foot eight and sitting in the back&lt;p&gt;Get a Model X if Model S is too small for you.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; can you please give us a rational reason except zero tailpipe emissions for buying a Model S over, say, a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7-series?&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not a huge fan on the S, prefer the X.&lt;p&gt;1. Twice the storage of an ICE vehicle. No engine block = FRUNK.&lt;p&gt;2. Safety. It is the safest vehicle on the road. Period. Because there is no engine block slamming in your face during a front-end collision.&lt;p&gt;3. I never have to go to a dirty gas station again. I fill up at home.&lt;p&gt;4. No oil changes. No transmission failures. Fewer moving parts = less maintenance needed.&lt;p&gt;5. American designed, American built, no $$$ going to questionable oil interests.&lt;p&gt;6. That center console? Fucking awesome. Enjoy your 8 inch joke.&lt;p&gt;7. Over-The-Air software updates that actually add useful features. No, I don&amp;#x27;t need to go to the service center to update my software. LOL!&lt;p&gt;8. It drives itself? Autopilot! Nice!&lt;p&gt;9. It parks itself. Even parallel parking. Will even open the garage, drive itself in, and then close the garage after itself.&lt;p&gt;10. Supercharger network. Free juice all over the country and beyond. Fills up in 20-30 min.&lt;p&gt;I can keep going, but I think you get the gist.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Tesla will even refuse to sell you parts&lt;p&gt;Ok. Ever hear of eBay?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; call you talking about industrial espionage, if you try and tinker with their cars&lt;p&gt;Don&amp;#x27;t fuck with cars that drive themselves. Please.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Seriously, WTF?&lt;p&gt;I wouldn&amp;#x27;t mind having more control over software updates and generally having more control over the vehicle, but I &lt;i&gt;understand&lt;/i&gt; why they made the decisions they did. If you don&amp;#x27;t, it&amp;#x27;s because you were never driven in an autonomous vehicle.&lt;p&gt;Tesla FTW.</text></item><item><author>semi-extrinsic</author><text>Between the touch screen control screaming &amp;quot;Look! Cool! Future! Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback and usability when driving while ignoring fifty years of safety research but Cool!&amp;quot;, trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line (and literally incapable of doing five laps at Laguna Seca without overheating and going into limp home mode), no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out meaning you can&amp;#x27;t even fire up Torque to check an error code before having to go to the garage, bad resale value as this article points out, literally having your head touch the car roof if you&amp;#x27;re over five foot eight and sitting in the back, etc.: can you please give us a rational reason &lt;i&gt;except zero tailpipe emissions&lt;/i&gt; for buying a Model S over, say, a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7-series?&lt;p&gt;I completely get that there are irrational reasons for buying things, not least of which is &amp;quot;OMG teh shiny future!!1!&amp;quot;, but these aren&amp;#x27;t really suitable for debate here because they&amp;#x27;re so hugely subjective.&lt;p&gt;Edit: having read through entire TFA: Tesla will even refuse to sell you parts, and call you talking about industrial espionage, if you try and tinker with their cars. Seriously, WTF?</text></item><item><author>maratd</author><text>&amp;gt; The aftermarket community for existing cars basically doesn&amp;#x27;t care about emissions --- one of the biggest attractions of an electric.&lt;p&gt;You&amp;#x27;ve clearly never been behind the wheel of a Tesla. Please go drive one. Emissions were literally the very last reason for buying the car for me.</text></item><item><author>userbinator</author><text>&lt;i&gt;You&amp;#x27;d think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are still somewhat niche and don&amp;#x27;t really appeal to the demographic who would be modding their cars. The aftermarket community for existing cars basically doesn&amp;#x27;t care about emissions --- one of the biggest attractions of an electric. As a bit of a car-geek myself, I&amp;#x27;ll admit that electrics are rather &amp;quot;boring&amp;quot; and for the same reason I&amp;#x27;m not so interested in the newer super-computerised vehicles either; it&amp;#x27;s the noisy, smelly, smoky, aggressive, obnoxious-mechanical-monster nature of petrol&amp;#x2F;diesel engines that&amp;#x27;s the really &amp;quot;fun&amp;quot; part. Batteries, electronics, and motors just don&amp;#x27;t evoke quite the same feeling.</text></item><item><author>ryandrake</author><text>One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles.&lt;p&gt;To me, a car that you can&amp;#x27;t service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer&amp;#x27;s permission to activate is not your car--it&amp;#x27;s owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threatening call to the &amp;quot;owner&amp;quot; after he tries to get diagnostic information from his own car [1], well that&amp;#x27;s so far beyond crossing the line it&amp;#x27;s not even funny.&lt;p&gt;I think we&amp;#x27;re going to start seeing &amp;quot;jailbroken&amp;quot; Teslas soon after they start falling out of their warranty period. I&amp;#x27;m surprised it hasn&amp;#x27;t happened already. You&amp;#x27;d think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for.&lt;p&gt;1: &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;gas2.org&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;14&amp;#x2F;road-slightly-traveled-hacking-tesla-model-s&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;gas2.org&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;14&amp;#x2F;road-slightly-traveled-hacking-te...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>tclmeelmo</author><text>&amp;gt; &amp;gt; trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; LOL. I sense hurt feelings.&lt;p&gt;A Model S weighs something like 4700lbs, depending on battery?  I suppose it depends on one&amp;#x27;s definition of &amp;quot;fast car&amp;quot;, but I personally consider more than straight line performance, and lighter cars have a distinct advantage.  I agree with Lotus&amp;#x27;s Colin Chapman: &amp;quot;performance through low weight&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt; no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Why would it need an OBD-2 port when it has an API?
&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Because OBD-2 is a standard with an entire ecosystem built around it.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; 2. Safety. It is the safest vehicle on the road. Period. Because there is no engine block slamming in your face during a front-end collision.&lt;p&gt;That is an advantage (also, it&amp;#x27;s on the heavy side and mass helps a lot) and it certainly tests well in crashes.  IIHS statistics for injury and medical payments don&amp;#x27;t however support your statement that it is the &amp;quot;safest vehicle on the road&amp;quot;.  Porsche&amp;#x27;s 911 and Boxster have lower Personal Injury Claim frequencies (and the Boxster doesn&amp;#x27;t even have a roof!).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; 4. No oil changes. No transmission failures. Fewer moving parts = less maintenance needed.&lt;p&gt;There might be less maintenance needed on some of the drivetrain leading to a more convenient service interval, but there still is maintenance (tires, brakes, brake fluid, HVAC, battery, suspension, steering, etc.) to be done, and the longer service interval might make it more likely for problems to increase in severity before they&amp;#x27;re noticed.  It&amp;#x27;s kind of a moot point, modern cars have overall excellent reliability on the drivetrain; luxury cars tend to have problems with the electrical system and associated accessories, especially after the lease period is up, and Tesla is no different.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; 5. American designed, American built, no $$$ going to questionable oil interests.&lt;p&gt;Overall design and final assembly, perhaps, but are you saying that the subsystem vendors are American too, to some degree larger than other manufacturers?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; 10. Supercharger network. Free juice all over the country and beyond. Fills up in 20-30 min.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s not free, it&amp;#x27;s incorporated into the cost of the purchase.</text></comment>
<story><title>Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars</title><url>http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>maratd</author><text>&amp;gt; Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback&lt;p&gt;Nonsense. You need tactile feedback while driving. You will not be using the center console while driving. You will not even be &lt;i&gt;looking&lt;/i&gt; at it. All of the stuff you need while driving &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; tactile.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line&lt;p&gt;LOL. I sense hurt feelings.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out&lt;p&gt;Why would it need an OBD-2 port when it has an API?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.timdorr.apiary.io&amp;#x2F;#&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; bad resale value as this article points out&lt;p&gt;Article is wrong. The prices for used vehicles are quite good. Confirm yourself.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; literally having your head touch the car roof if you&amp;#x27;re over five foot eight and sitting in the back&lt;p&gt;Get a Model X if Model S is too small for you.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; can you please give us a rational reason except zero tailpipe emissions for buying a Model S over, say, a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7-series?&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not a huge fan on the S, prefer the X.&lt;p&gt;1. Twice the storage of an ICE vehicle. No engine block = FRUNK.&lt;p&gt;2. Safety. It is the safest vehicle on the road. Period. Because there is no engine block slamming in your face during a front-end collision.&lt;p&gt;3. I never have to go to a dirty gas station again. I fill up at home.&lt;p&gt;4. No oil changes. No transmission failures. Fewer moving parts = less maintenance needed.&lt;p&gt;5. American designed, American built, no $$$ going to questionable oil interests.&lt;p&gt;6. That center console? Fucking awesome. Enjoy your 8 inch joke.&lt;p&gt;7. Over-The-Air software updates that actually add useful features. No, I don&amp;#x27;t need to go to the service center to update my software. LOL!&lt;p&gt;8. It drives itself? Autopilot! Nice!&lt;p&gt;9. It parks itself. Even parallel parking. Will even open the garage, drive itself in, and then close the garage after itself.&lt;p&gt;10. Supercharger network. Free juice all over the country and beyond. Fills up in 20-30 min.&lt;p&gt;I can keep going, but I think you get the gist.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Tesla will even refuse to sell you parts&lt;p&gt;Ok. Ever hear of eBay?&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; call you talking about industrial espionage, if you try and tinker with their cars&lt;p&gt;Don&amp;#x27;t fuck with cars that drive themselves. Please.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Seriously, WTF?&lt;p&gt;I wouldn&amp;#x27;t mind having more control over software updates and generally having more control over the vehicle, but I &lt;i&gt;understand&lt;/i&gt; why they made the decisions they did. If you don&amp;#x27;t, it&amp;#x27;s because you were never driven in an autonomous vehicle.&lt;p&gt;Tesla FTW.</text></item><item><author>semi-extrinsic</author><text>Between the touch screen control screaming &amp;quot;Look! Cool! Future! Oh yeah we had to sacrifice tactile feedback and usability when driving while ignoring fifty years of safety research but Cool!&amp;quot;, trying to be a fast car but only really good for 0-60 in a straight line (and literally incapable of doing five laps at Laguna Seca without overheating and going into limp home mode), no OBD-2 port as another poster pointed out meaning you can&amp;#x27;t even fire up Torque to check an error code before having to go to the garage, bad resale value as this article points out, literally having your head touch the car roof if you&amp;#x27;re over five foot eight and sitting in the back, etc.: can you please give us a rational reason &lt;i&gt;except zero tailpipe emissions&lt;/i&gt; for buying a Model S over, say, a Mercedes S-class or a BMW 7-series?&lt;p&gt;I completely get that there are irrational reasons for buying things, not least of which is &amp;quot;OMG teh shiny future!!1!&amp;quot;, but these aren&amp;#x27;t really suitable for debate here because they&amp;#x27;re so hugely subjective.&lt;p&gt;Edit: having read through entire TFA: Tesla will even refuse to sell you parts, and call you talking about industrial espionage, if you try and tinker with their cars. Seriously, WTF?</text></item><item><author>maratd</author><text>&amp;gt; The aftermarket community for existing cars basically doesn&amp;#x27;t care about emissions --- one of the biggest attractions of an electric.&lt;p&gt;You&amp;#x27;ve clearly never been behind the wheel of a Tesla. Please go drive one. Emissions were literally the very last reason for buying the car for me.</text></item><item><author>userbinator</author><text>&lt;i&gt;You&amp;#x27;d think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are still somewhat niche and don&amp;#x27;t really appeal to the demographic who would be modding their cars. The aftermarket community for existing cars basically doesn&amp;#x27;t care about emissions --- one of the biggest attractions of an electric. As a bit of a car-geek myself, I&amp;#x27;ll admit that electrics are rather &amp;quot;boring&amp;quot; and for the same reason I&amp;#x27;m not so interested in the newer super-computerised vehicles either; it&amp;#x27;s the noisy, smelly, smoky, aggressive, obnoxious-mechanical-monster nature of petrol&amp;#x2F;diesel engines that&amp;#x27;s the really &amp;quot;fun&amp;quot; part. Batteries, electronics, and motors just don&amp;#x27;t evoke quite the same feeling.</text></item><item><author>ryandrake</author><text>One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles.&lt;p&gt;To me, a car that you can&amp;#x27;t service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer&amp;#x27;s permission to activate is not your car--it&amp;#x27;s owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threatening call to the &amp;quot;owner&amp;quot; after he tries to get diagnostic information from his own car [1], well that&amp;#x27;s so far beyond crossing the line it&amp;#x27;s not even funny.&lt;p&gt;I think we&amp;#x27;re going to start seeing &amp;quot;jailbroken&amp;quot; Teslas soon after they start falling out of their warranty period. I&amp;#x27;m surprised it hasn&amp;#x27;t happened already. You&amp;#x27;d think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for.&lt;p&gt;1: &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;gas2.org&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;14&amp;#x2F;road-slightly-traveled-hacking-tesla-model-s&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;gas2.org&amp;#x2F;2014&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;14&amp;#x2F;road-slightly-traveled-hacking-te...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>overgard</author><text>&amp;gt; Nonsense. You need tactile feedback while driving. You will not be using the center console while driving. You will not even be looking at it. All of the stuff you need while driving is tactile.&lt;p&gt;Right, because nobody has ever adjusted the air conditioning or radio while driving...</text></comment>