<story><title>When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)</title><url>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151003-animals-science-crows-birds-culture-brains/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Unklejoe</author><text>Here&amp;#x27;s a different perspective, which I will admit in advance is kind of ridiculous, but it makes me think...&lt;p&gt;Why are humans not considered to be a part of nature? I think it’s because we consider ourselves to be more intelligent than other animals&amp;#x2F;organisms and therefore assume it to be our responsibility to actively protect nature. However, this is based on our own moral standards, which were created by us, likely as a result of our ability to empathize.&lt;p&gt;A human eating an apple and discarding the core seems pretty natural to me (though it’s not, by definition). If this has an impact on the wildlife population, then perhaps it was “meant to be”.&lt;p&gt;Going out of our way to preserve nature seems more unnatural. Nature should have no expectation of our intelligence, so perhaps the human-caused destruction of the world is itself natural.&lt;p&gt;Then again, perhaps our increased intelligence is natural, so going out of our way to preserve nature is natural.&lt;p&gt;As you can see, I basically have no point here. It’s just an interesting thought train that I felt like expressing.&lt;p&gt;Of course, this argument could be extended to just about anything that a human does, including pumping oil directly into the ocean, which is why I’m not actually trying to argue this point.&lt;p&gt;I guess what I am saying is that if humans are left unregulated, nature seems to find a way to restore sanity. An example of this is the over prescription of antibiotics which has led to a decrease in their overall effectiveness. It seems like nature will always win in the end.</text></item><item><author>krzrak</author><text>You realize you&amp;#x27;re not supposed to toss around garbage in the national park?</text></item><item><author>sirtastic</author><text>I believe ravens and crows are very similar, this is a personal (long, and not the great) story about a raven I messed around with in Yosemite National Park:&lt;p&gt;When I was up on north dome (not to be confused with half dome) there was a group of raven&amp;#x27;s hanging out on the rocks watching us eat our late lunch. I had an apple core that I tossed to the side and watched as a raven warily tried to approach it. I walked over and grabbed the apple core before the raven could grab it so I could entertain myself teasing the raven for a bit before we started down the mountain. I started by putting my arm back ready to throw the apple and as I did that I noticed the raven kneel a bit as if getting ready to launch itself. I thought this was interesting as it showed it was anticipating me throwing the object based on my arm motion. As I relaxed my arm the bird also relaxed.&lt;p&gt;I tried grabbing a rock and again watched it brace itself to launch from the rock then tried switching the apple core and the rock behind my back and tossing the rock hoping the bird would dart after it thinking it was the core. The bird didn&amp;#x27;t do as I expected and instead just watched me carefully never motioning for the rocks.&lt;p&gt;I tore a piece of the apple from the core behind my back and tossed it just as I had with the rocks and before the piece of apple even left my hand the raven leaped from the rock in its direction.&lt;p&gt;This blew my mind. Not sure how the raven knew it was a chunk of apple and not a rock.&lt;p&gt;I messed around with that particular raven for a good 10-15 minutes tossing various things in its direction, testing its reactions and trying to mess with its little raven mind. All I managed to do however was be impressed at its level of experience in dealing with Yosemite tourists such as myself.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>QuotedForTruth</author><text>Sure, throwing one apple core seems pretty natural.  But a national park is full of visitors every day.  If it isn&amp;#x27;t a strict policy not to throw trash and food where animals can scavenge it, they learn to expect and rely on it.  This brings them in more frequent contact.  With crows that&amp;#x27;s no big deal, perhaps an annoyance to visitors at worst.  But other animals can be much more dangerous.  Keeping a healthy fear of people in animals (and honestly of animals in people) is incredibly important.&lt;p&gt;The most extreme example of this is trash feeding bears in Yellowstone up until 1970.  Humans naturally ate at hotels which naturally tossed their trash into giant piles nearby.  Bears naturally came looking for all that food they smelled and naturally ate it.  The humans then naturally started watching and the park naturally made that easier by putting up grandstands around the trash heaps.&lt;p&gt;Eventually a new Yellowstone park chief saw the ridiculousness and danger of this and stopped it.  It then took a while for the bears to adapt their behavior back to their actual natural behavior without such a rich food source.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yellowstonepark.com&amp;#x2F;yellowstone-bears-no-longer-get-garbage-treats&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.yellowstonepark.com&amp;#x2F;yellowstone-bears-no-longer-g...&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>When a crow dies, the other crows investigate the cause of death (2015)</title><url>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151003-animals-science-crows-birds-culture-brains/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>Unklejoe</author><text>Here&amp;#x27;s a different perspective, which I will admit in advance is kind of ridiculous, but it makes me think...&lt;p&gt;Why are humans not considered to be a part of nature? I think it’s because we consider ourselves to be more intelligent than other animals&amp;#x2F;organisms and therefore assume it to be our responsibility to actively protect nature. However, this is based on our own moral standards, which were created by us, likely as a result of our ability to empathize.&lt;p&gt;A human eating an apple and discarding the core seems pretty natural to me (though it’s not, by definition). If this has an impact on the wildlife population, then perhaps it was “meant to be”.&lt;p&gt;Going out of our way to preserve nature seems more unnatural. Nature should have no expectation of our intelligence, so perhaps the human-caused destruction of the world is itself natural.&lt;p&gt;Then again, perhaps our increased intelligence is natural, so going out of our way to preserve nature is natural.&lt;p&gt;As you can see, I basically have no point here. It’s just an interesting thought train that I felt like expressing.&lt;p&gt;Of course, this argument could be extended to just about anything that a human does, including pumping oil directly into the ocean, which is why I’m not actually trying to argue this point.&lt;p&gt;I guess what I am saying is that if humans are left unregulated, nature seems to find a way to restore sanity. An example of this is the over prescription of antibiotics which has led to a decrease in their overall effectiveness. It seems like nature will always win in the end.</text></item><item><author>krzrak</author><text>You realize you&amp;#x27;re not supposed to toss around garbage in the national park?</text></item><item><author>sirtastic</author><text>I believe ravens and crows are very similar, this is a personal (long, and not the great) story about a raven I messed around with in Yosemite National Park:&lt;p&gt;When I was up on north dome (not to be confused with half dome) there was a group of raven&amp;#x27;s hanging out on the rocks watching us eat our late lunch. I had an apple core that I tossed to the side and watched as a raven warily tried to approach it. I walked over and grabbed the apple core before the raven could grab it so I could entertain myself teasing the raven for a bit before we started down the mountain. I started by putting my arm back ready to throw the apple and as I did that I noticed the raven kneel a bit as if getting ready to launch itself. I thought this was interesting as it showed it was anticipating me throwing the object based on my arm motion. As I relaxed my arm the bird also relaxed.&lt;p&gt;I tried grabbing a rock and again watched it brace itself to launch from the rock then tried switching the apple core and the rock behind my back and tossing the rock hoping the bird would dart after it thinking it was the core. The bird didn&amp;#x27;t do as I expected and instead just watched me carefully never motioning for the rocks.&lt;p&gt;I tore a piece of the apple from the core behind my back and tossed it just as I had with the rocks and before the piece of apple even left my hand the raven leaped from the rock in its direction.&lt;p&gt;This blew my mind. Not sure how the raven knew it was a chunk of apple and not a rock.&lt;p&gt;I messed around with that particular raven for a good 10-15 minutes tossing various things in its direction, testing its reactions and trying to mess with its little raven mind. All I managed to do however was be impressed at its level of experience in dealing with Yosemite tourists such as myself.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>coldpie</author><text>Unregulated humans have lead to the extinction of hundreds (thousands?) of species. Largely by hunting, but also unintentionally by destroying habitats. It&amp;#x27;s also a safety hazard: when you feed wild animals, they learn to associate humans with food and are more willing to approach humans, which places humans in danger. Aside from animal welfare, garbage is just disgusting. If one person sees an apple core, perhaps they&amp;#x27;ll assume it&amp;#x27;s OK to leave their Doritos bag, and someone else a beer bottle, and now the area is spoiled for everyone. Not to mention health hazards for both humans and animals from rotting food.</text></comment>