<story><title>Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo</title><url>https://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-on-the-google-memo/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tedivm</author><text>Lets assume that we&amp;#x27;re in an alternative universe where the document was never leaked.&lt;p&gt;The document &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; did harm. Just read this quote from the posted article-&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; When I walk into my job at a tech company, how do I know which of my colleagues thinks I’m an outlier among women versus someone who was hired because I’m female that doesn’t deserve the job they have? How do I prove myself to people one way or another? The additional mental and emotional burden on me just to do my job is not negligible at all, and it’s also a pretty crappy way to start every day thinking: “Will the team&amp;#x2F;manager&amp;#x2F;VC I talk with today realize I’m qualified, or will they be making stereotypical assumptions about my abilities and therefore make it harder for me to do my job?” To me, that absolutely makes for a hostile work environment, and it’s an unequal burden my male coworkers don’t have to deal with every day.&lt;p&gt;That quote wasn&amp;#x27;t caused by this going public in the way it did, it was caused by it being posted in the first place. There is real harm done if women who work at a company don&amp;#x27;t feel they are welcome there.</text></item><item><author>rpiguy</author><text>I really enjoyed the well reasoned discussion. I think a lot more constructive dialog is happening now that people have calmed down.&lt;p&gt;Of all the sentiments expressed in the article, I mainly disagree with the comment that Damore did the company harm.&lt;p&gt;He posted his thoughts on an internal discussion board and someone else leaked this internal document to the press. The leaker did harm to Google not Damore. In fact, I think the memo had been posted for a week or two before it was leaked. If your argument for firing Damore is that he did the company harm, you should look at the person who took an internal company document and made it public.&lt;p&gt;There are many people who believe he should have been fired anyway for offending his female coworkers and perhaps making them feel unsafe, but that is a different argument all together with its own merits and faults depending strongly on your stance on what constitutes tolerable speech.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>mizzack</author><text>From your quote:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; When I walk into my job at a tech company, how do I know which of my colleagues thinks I’m an outlier among women versus someone who was hired because I’m female that doesn’t deserve the job they have?&lt;p&gt;Your perspective is that this is harmful because the memo caused self doubt, so the memo was the problem.&lt;p&gt;From Damore&amp;#x27;s perspective, if there were no quota&amp;#x2F;diversity hiring programs at that place of employment, the woman in question would have no reason to suspect the latter. The hiring policy was the problem.&lt;p&gt;Totally different interpretations of cause and effect.</text></comment>
<story><title>Ask a Female Engineer: Thoughts on the Google Memo</title><url>https://blog.ycombinator.com/ask-a-female-engineer-thoughts-on-the-google-memo/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tedivm</author><text>Lets assume that we&amp;#x27;re in an alternative universe where the document was never leaked.&lt;p&gt;The document &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; did harm. Just read this quote from the posted article-&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; When I walk into my job at a tech company, how do I know which of my colleagues thinks I’m an outlier among women versus someone who was hired because I’m female that doesn’t deserve the job they have? How do I prove myself to people one way or another? The additional mental and emotional burden on me just to do my job is not negligible at all, and it’s also a pretty crappy way to start every day thinking: “Will the team&amp;#x2F;manager&amp;#x2F;VC I talk with today realize I’m qualified, or will they be making stereotypical assumptions about my abilities and therefore make it harder for me to do my job?” To me, that absolutely makes for a hostile work environment, and it’s an unequal burden my male coworkers don’t have to deal with every day.&lt;p&gt;That quote wasn&amp;#x27;t caused by this going public in the way it did, it was caused by it being posted in the first place. There is real harm done if women who work at a company don&amp;#x27;t feel they are welcome there.</text></item><item><author>rpiguy</author><text>I really enjoyed the well reasoned discussion. I think a lot more constructive dialog is happening now that people have calmed down.&lt;p&gt;Of all the sentiments expressed in the article, I mainly disagree with the comment that Damore did the company harm.&lt;p&gt;He posted his thoughts on an internal discussion board and someone else leaked this internal document to the press. The leaker did harm to Google not Damore. In fact, I think the memo had been posted for a week or two before it was leaked. If your argument for firing Damore is that he did the company harm, you should look at the person who took an internal company document and made it public.&lt;p&gt;There are many people who believe he should have been fired anyway for offending his female coworkers and perhaps making them feel unsafe, but that is a different argument all together with its own merits and faults depending strongly on your stance on what constitutes tolerable speech.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>rpiguy</author><text>The thoughts of one twenty-something engineer posted to an internal message board (for these kinds of discussions I might add) does not create a hostile workplace or harm Google in any way.&lt;p&gt;Basically, in any other context we expect people who have vastly differing views to be able to put them aside and work together. The only exception to this rule seems to be around leftist issues, where if you disagree you are out of luck.&lt;p&gt;You would expect, for example, the Jewish people and the Islamic people at a company to work together.&lt;p&gt;The idea that toleration for one memo form a nobody employee marks an entire company as unwelcome is insane. This zero tolerance attitude is a recipe for disaster.</text></comment>