<story><title>pfSense: Open source network firewall distribution</title><url>https://pfsense.org/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>cr0sh</author><text>&amp;gt; They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it&amp;#x27;s morally wrong).&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t want to start a flame war, but if the BSD license allows for them to do this, why is it morally wrong?&lt;p&gt;That is - how can you complain when the license explicitly allows for this? If you (not you personally, of course - but the OpenBSD project) didn&amp;#x27;t want this to happen, then the license would need to be changed to prevent it.&lt;p&gt;Of course then, companies wouldn&amp;#x27;t be as willing to use the code, as we tend to see with the GPL.&lt;p&gt;But if companies are just going to take the code, modify it, and not contribute the changes back (or contribute little back), where&amp;#x27;s the loss by using another license?&lt;p&gt;If the loss is &amp;quot;but the code then won&amp;#x27;t be used in the greater ecosystem&amp;quot;, why complain when it is?&lt;p&gt;Again - I&amp;#x27;m not trying to cause a flame war; everybody has their license and needs. I&amp;#x27;m just trying to understand why there is complaints when code isn&amp;#x27;t contributed back under the BSD license, when it explicitly allows for this.&lt;p&gt;Furthermore, I am wondering if there is anything we can do about it, that doesn&amp;#x27;t cause the kind of ire to rise when the GPL is invoked instead. Perhaps there isn&amp;#x27;t a solution, but I&amp;#x27;d love to hear ideas on the subject.</text></item><item><author>stsp</author><text>I won&amp;#x27;t defend their demeaning public behaviour towards OpenBSD. I find it revolting.&lt;p&gt;But they did make one donation to this OpenBSD developer. They sent me 3 rcc-ve boards which I am still using for development: &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;cvsweb.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;cgi-bin&amp;#x2F;cvsweb&amp;#x2F;www&amp;#x2F;want.html#rev1.945&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;cvsweb.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;cgi-bin&amp;#x2F;cvsweb&amp;#x2F;www&amp;#x2F;want.html#rev1....&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it&amp;#x27;s morally wrong). Claiming they never gave anything at all is incorrect.</text></item><item><author>notaplumber</author><text>Netgate&amp;#x2F;pfSense has been notoriously anti-community, with their own co-founder attacking other projects, including a recent fork called OPNSense.&lt;p&gt;They&amp;#x27;ve also been very hostile towards the OpenBSD developers, and project. Despite the fact they&amp;#x27;ve effectively built a business on OpenBSD innovations, like pf and CARP, even incorporating the name &amp;#x27;pf&amp;#x27; into their trademark having not contributed a bit of code.. n̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶m̶e̶ (but perhaps some hw).&lt;p&gt;But feel free to keep using it.. no need to take my word for it.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;donations.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;donations.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsdfoundation.org&amp;#x2F;contributors.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsdfoundation.org&amp;#x2F;contributors.html&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>throwaway2048</author><text>There is a difference between forcing what you believe to be right onto others via legal means, and wanting people to do the right thing because it is moral to do so.</text></comment>
<story><title>pfSense: Open source network firewall distribution</title><url>https://pfsense.org/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>cr0sh</author><text>&amp;gt; They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it&amp;#x27;s morally wrong).&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t want to start a flame war, but if the BSD license allows for them to do this, why is it morally wrong?&lt;p&gt;That is - how can you complain when the license explicitly allows for this? If you (not you personally, of course - but the OpenBSD project) didn&amp;#x27;t want this to happen, then the license would need to be changed to prevent it.&lt;p&gt;Of course then, companies wouldn&amp;#x27;t be as willing to use the code, as we tend to see with the GPL.&lt;p&gt;But if companies are just going to take the code, modify it, and not contribute the changes back (or contribute little back), where&amp;#x27;s the loss by using another license?&lt;p&gt;If the loss is &amp;quot;but the code then won&amp;#x27;t be used in the greater ecosystem&amp;quot;, why complain when it is?&lt;p&gt;Again - I&amp;#x27;m not trying to cause a flame war; everybody has their license and needs. I&amp;#x27;m just trying to understand why there is complaints when code isn&amp;#x27;t contributed back under the BSD license, when it explicitly allows for this.&lt;p&gt;Furthermore, I am wondering if there is anything we can do about it, that doesn&amp;#x27;t cause the kind of ire to rise when the GPL is invoked instead. Perhaps there isn&amp;#x27;t a solution, but I&amp;#x27;d love to hear ideas on the subject.</text></item><item><author>stsp</author><text>I won&amp;#x27;t defend their demeaning public behaviour towards OpenBSD. I find it revolting.&lt;p&gt;But they did make one donation to this OpenBSD developer. They sent me 3 rcc-ve boards which I am still using for development: &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;cvsweb.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;cgi-bin&amp;#x2F;cvsweb&amp;#x2F;www&amp;#x2F;want.html#rev1.945&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;cvsweb.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;cgi-bin&amp;#x2F;cvsweb&amp;#x2F;www&amp;#x2F;want.html#rev1....&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;They took much more than they have given (which the source code licence allows them to do, even if it&amp;#x27;s morally wrong). Claiming they never gave anything at all is incorrect.</text></item><item><author>notaplumber</author><text>Netgate&amp;#x2F;pfSense has been notoriously anti-community, with their own co-founder attacking other projects, including a recent fork called OPNSense.&lt;p&gt;They&amp;#x27;ve also been very hostile towards the OpenBSD developers, and project. Despite the fact they&amp;#x27;ve effectively built a business on OpenBSD innovations, like pf and CARP, even incorporating the name &amp;#x27;pf&amp;#x27; into their trademark having not contributed a bit of code.. n̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶m̶e̶ (but perhaps some hw).&lt;p&gt;But feel free to keep using it.. no need to take my word for it.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;donations.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsd.org&amp;#x2F;donations.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsdfoundation.org&amp;#x2F;contributors.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.openbsdfoundation.org&amp;#x2F;contributors.html&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>brazzledazzle</author><text>Without offering an opinion about their behavior I want to point out that a compliance with a license or laws has nothing to do with morals or ethics.</text></comment>