<story><title>Mojo is a much better “Objective-C without the C” than Swift ever was</title><url>https://blog.metaobject.com/2023/06/mojo-is-much-better-without-c-than.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>simias</author><text>I chuckled a bit when I saw that they market themselves as &amp;quot;faster than C&amp;quot;. Is it 2005 again? Do modern developers even have any notion of how fast C runs to use as a baseline?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s really minor thing but a pet peeve of mine, I remember how twenty years ago every new language claimed to be as fast or faster than C, and every time the benchmark was some ultra-optimized non-idiomatic program in that new language against a naive C implementation, and the C version was usually still 20% faster and use 10% as much RAM with the right compile flags.&lt;p&gt;Are there even Mojo benchmark in the wild? The FAQ entry[1] just finds excuses for situations where it does &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; perform well...&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.modular.com&amp;#x2F;mojo&amp;#x2F;faq.html#performance&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.modular.com&amp;#x2F;mojo&amp;#x2F;faq.html#performance&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>nbittich</author><text>[edited] afaict:
1) Mojo isn&amp;#x27;t opensource (yet?)
2) I can&amp;#x27;t test mojo (yet?)
3) Mojo does bold claims like being a better python with performance close to C, like V did, yet no one seems to call them out (yet????)&lt;p&gt;Anyway, never gonna try it, unless I&amp;#x27;m absolutely forced. 
I hate their marketing strategy, it sounds too bad.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Certhas</author><text>The benchmarks they give here [1] show generic code on par with specialized libraries that are typically written in assembler. These are vastly faster than naive C implementations, so your pet peeve really does not apply here.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modular.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;the-worlds-fastest-unified-matrix-multiplication&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modular.com&amp;#x2F;blog&amp;#x2F;the-worlds-fastest-unified-matr...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;I kind of agree with the obnoxiousness of the marketing, but it pays to actually read a little of what they do before jumping to conclusions.&lt;p&gt;If only because its Chris Lattner behind it, obviously not someone who is your average &amp;quot;modern programmer&amp;quot;.</text></comment>
<story><title>Mojo is a much better “Objective-C without the C” than Swift ever was</title><url>https://blog.metaobject.com/2023/06/mojo-is-much-better-without-c-than.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>simias</author><text>I chuckled a bit when I saw that they market themselves as &amp;quot;faster than C&amp;quot;. Is it 2005 again? Do modern developers even have any notion of how fast C runs to use as a baseline?&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s really minor thing but a pet peeve of mine, I remember how twenty years ago every new language claimed to be as fast or faster than C, and every time the benchmark was some ultra-optimized non-idiomatic program in that new language against a naive C implementation, and the C version was usually still 20% faster and use 10% as much RAM with the right compile flags.&lt;p&gt;Are there even Mojo benchmark in the wild? The FAQ entry[1] just finds excuses for situations where it does &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; perform well...&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.modular.com&amp;#x2F;mojo&amp;#x2F;faq.html#performance&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;docs.modular.com&amp;#x2F;mojo&amp;#x2F;faq.html#performance&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>nbittich</author><text>[edited] afaict:
1) Mojo isn&amp;#x27;t opensource (yet?)
2) I can&amp;#x27;t test mojo (yet?)
3) Mojo does bold claims like being a better python with performance close to C, like V did, yet no one seems to call them out (yet????)&lt;p&gt;Anyway, never gonna try it, unless I&amp;#x27;m absolutely forced. 
I hate their marketing strategy, it sounds too bad.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>boxed</author><text>I mean.. it does depend on what you mean by &amp;quot;faster than C&amp;quot; of course. Writing the straight forward naive solution in Mojo for some problems can produce code that can run on both CPUs and GPUs and be super fast. Can you get the same performance from C? Probably.. with lots on intrinsics and one code base for GPUs and one for CPUs, where the GPU codebase might even be multiple code bases for different vendors.&lt;p&gt;I would say &amp;quot;faster than C if you want to keep your sanity and don&amp;#x27;t have infinite time&amp;quot;. It doesn&amp;#x27;t roll off the tongue though :P</text></comment>