<story><title>Experian’s credit freeze security is still a joke</title><url>https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/experians-credit-freeze-security-is-still-a-joke/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jwr</author><text>&amp;gt; Credit cards in the USA are backed by very strong consumer protection laws. That is why you can mindlessly give one to wait staff at a restaurant who will disappear with it for an extended amount of time, while in any other country that would be unimaginable.&lt;p&gt;But how is this specific to &amp;quot;credit&amp;quot; cards? Don&amp;#x27;t debit cards get the same protection? The point here is that in the US one &lt;i&gt;needs&lt;/i&gt; to have &amp;quot;credit history&amp;quot; in order to do things like rent an apartment, which is not a thing in the EU.&lt;p&gt;As to security, the EU has largely gotten around the problem by implementing modern payment systems. In Poland no waiter will &amp;quot;disappear&amp;quot; with your card, they will bring a mobile terminal to the table, so that you can use your (contactless) card.&lt;p&gt;In fact, living in Poland currently, I can&amp;#x27;t remember the last time I used a &lt;i&gt;physical&lt;/i&gt; card anywhere. For the last two years or so I&amp;#x27;ve only been carrying my phone with me, no wallet at all.</text></item><item><author>paxys</author><text>Credit cards in the USA are backed by very strong consumer protection laws. That is why you can mindlessly give one to wait staff at a restaurant who will disappear with it for an extended amount of time, while in any other country that would be unimaginable. I have also never once cared about credit card skimmers at gas stations or anything of the sort. It&amp;#x27;s the bank&amp;#x27;s responsibility to protect the card, not my own.&lt;p&gt;Consumer culture in general means that it is very profitable for banks and payment processors to hand out credit cards like candy (with huge spending incentives), despite knowing that a ton of people are going to rack up debt that they will never be able to pay.&lt;p&gt;The overall credit system is also a lot larger than just credit cards. The country runs on cheap debt. Everything from houses, education, cars all the way to TVs and dresses is financed with long-term payments and low single digit interest rates. Most of what people earn goes towards paying for stuff they bought in the past rather than saving for something they might buy later.</text></item><item><author>anyfoo</author><text>As someone who grew up in Europe and lives in the US now, the whole &amp;quot;credit&amp;quot; thing is still weird to me anyway. In Germany at least, credit cards are mostly only a thing because they are convenient to pay with online, and then often behave like debit cards (paying directly from your bank account) anyway.&lt;p&gt;Everyday shopping happens with debit cards, bills are paid by wiring money.&lt;p&gt;When I came here, I &amp;quot;built credit&amp;quot; by paying everything by credit card and making sure to pay off the entire bill &lt;i&gt;immediately&lt;/i&gt; to not incur any interest penalty, but when I read stuff like &amp;quot;always pay off the credit card with the highest APR first&amp;quot;, my head&amp;#x27;s still spinning.</text></item><item><author>PascLeRasc</author><text>I really, really wish I could opt out of having accounts with the big 3 credit bureaus. Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an active freeze whenever I go to lift one. Or their website is down entirely. Or they won’t let me get to the freeze section without clicking no on their paid monitoring services 8 times. For Transunion all I needed to lift a freeze was the last 4 of my SSN, so how does that help?&lt;p&gt;I don’t want to have my information with these companies. Please let me not participate. It’s like every American was given a Chase Bank account at birth that we can’t close, it’s weird.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>herbstein</author><text>&amp;gt; In fact, living in Poland currently, I can&amp;#x27;t remember the last time I used a physical card anywhere. For the last two years or so I&amp;#x27;ve only been carrying my phone with me, no wallet at all.&lt;p&gt;Here in Denmark we recently got an official digital drivers license. You verify your identity with the government issued 2FA system, scan the NFC chip in your (non-expired) passport, and you&amp;#x27;re golden. The digital license is as valid as the physical license.&lt;p&gt;Couple this with NFC payment being a requirement anywhere that takes payment, the banks having developed a way of transferring money between accounts in different banks instantly based on just a phone number, and the digital drivers license, there&amp;#x27;s never a need to have my wallet on me. At the moment I&amp;#x27;m not even sure where it is -- it&amp;#x27;s somewhere in the apartment.</text></comment>
<story><title>Experian’s credit freeze security is still a joke</title><url>https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/04/experians-credit-freeze-security-is-still-a-joke/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>jwr</author><text>&amp;gt; Credit cards in the USA are backed by very strong consumer protection laws. That is why you can mindlessly give one to wait staff at a restaurant who will disappear with it for an extended amount of time, while in any other country that would be unimaginable.&lt;p&gt;But how is this specific to &amp;quot;credit&amp;quot; cards? Don&amp;#x27;t debit cards get the same protection? The point here is that in the US one &lt;i&gt;needs&lt;/i&gt; to have &amp;quot;credit history&amp;quot; in order to do things like rent an apartment, which is not a thing in the EU.&lt;p&gt;As to security, the EU has largely gotten around the problem by implementing modern payment systems. In Poland no waiter will &amp;quot;disappear&amp;quot; with your card, they will bring a mobile terminal to the table, so that you can use your (contactless) card.&lt;p&gt;In fact, living in Poland currently, I can&amp;#x27;t remember the last time I used a &lt;i&gt;physical&lt;/i&gt; card anywhere. For the last two years or so I&amp;#x27;ve only been carrying my phone with me, no wallet at all.</text></item><item><author>paxys</author><text>Credit cards in the USA are backed by very strong consumer protection laws. That is why you can mindlessly give one to wait staff at a restaurant who will disappear with it for an extended amount of time, while in any other country that would be unimaginable. I have also never once cared about credit card skimmers at gas stations or anything of the sort. It&amp;#x27;s the bank&amp;#x27;s responsibility to protect the card, not my own.&lt;p&gt;Consumer culture in general means that it is very profitable for banks and payment processors to hand out credit cards like candy (with huge spending incentives), despite knowing that a ton of people are going to rack up debt that they will never be able to pay.&lt;p&gt;The overall credit system is also a lot larger than just credit cards. The country runs on cheap debt. Everything from houses, education, cars all the way to TVs and dresses is financed with long-term payments and low single digit interest rates. Most of what people earn goes towards paying for stuff they bought in the past rather than saving for something they might buy later.</text></item><item><author>anyfoo</author><text>As someone who grew up in Europe and lives in the US now, the whole &amp;quot;credit&amp;quot; thing is still weird to me anyway. In Germany at least, credit cards are mostly only a thing because they are convenient to pay with online, and then often behave like debit cards (paying directly from your bank account) anyway.&lt;p&gt;Everyday shopping happens with debit cards, bills are paid by wiring money.&lt;p&gt;When I came here, I &amp;quot;built credit&amp;quot; by paying everything by credit card and making sure to pay off the entire bill &lt;i&gt;immediately&lt;/i&gt; to not incur any interest penalty, but when I read stuff like &amp;quot;always pay off the credit card with the highest APR first&amp;quot;, my head&amp;#x27;s still spinning.</text></item><item><author>PascLeRasc</author><text>I really, really wish I could opt out of having accounts with the big 3 credit bureaus. Freezes don’t appear to work - they usually say that I don’t have an active freeze whenever I go to lift one. Or their website is down entirely. Or they won’t let me get to the freeze section without clicking no on their paid monitoring services 8 times. For Transunion all I needed to lift a freeze was the last 4 of my SSN, so how does that help?&lt;p&gt;I don’t want to have my information with these companies. Please let me not participate. It’s like every American was given a Chase Bank account at birth that we can’t close, it’s weird.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>naniwaduni</author><text>There is a very strong, very simple alignment of incentives that you&amp;#x27;d think shouldn&amp;#x27;t really matter, but makes a huge difference: with credit, the burden is on the &lt;i&gt;bank&lt;/i&gt; to collect money from &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt;.</text></comment>