<story><title>Students don&apos;t seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)</title><url>https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/01/whats-college-good-for/546590/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>_hardwaregeek</author><text>There&amp;#x27;s several issues I&amp;#x27;ve noticed as a student. First, kids are told to go to college immediately after high school. If college was high school 2.0, this would be fine. But college is completely different from high school; it&amp;#x27;s significantly more expensive, more free form and more rigorous (at least compared to most high schools). I see so many students who clearly have no clue what they want to do, why they&amp;#x27;re in college (beyond &amp;quot;my parents want me to&amp;quot;) or how to accomplish their goals.&lt;p&gt;Having seen the sheer quantity of kids struggling with simple stuff like cleaning, cooking and not drinking themselves to death, I&amp;#x27;m becoming more and more in favor of a mandatory service at the age of 18. Maybe not military like the IDF, but some sort of program where kids are forced to go away from home and learn to be self sufficient. Little Bobby should learn how to scrub a pot and clean a bathroom before he&amp;#x27;s entrusted with a 240k education. I took a gap year and I was significantly more focused and disciplined than I was in high school. And way better than the majority of my college peers.&lt;p&gt;But even worse than being unprepared for college, I feel like we&amp;#x27;ve been fostering a poor attitude towards learning. I grew up in an academic family, so to me, learning wasn&amp;#x27;t a stage of life. Learning was an essential aspect of being alive. Going to college wasn&amp;#x27;t some arbitrary merit badge that society deems necessary. It was a natural extension of whatever field I wanted to study. I see college as a tool; I need to learn certain topics in order to get what I want in life. Of course, I&amp;#x27;m very fortunate to have taken a gap year and worked as a programmer. If nothing else, I know that I like programming, I&amp;#x27;m good at it and I&amp;#x27;m willing to suffer through the painful parts. It&amp;#x27;s kinda good to know that before I spent 240k on a CS degree.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>Balgair</author><text>Some form of mandatory alternative civilian service may be of use here in the US. Hypothetically, &amp;#x27;cutting the apron strings&amp;#x27; may improve physical fitness, national identity, common understanding, and widen the shared views of the conscripts. Here in the US, the Vietnam war was the most recent event where nearly every family and citizen was affected and were forced to interact with each other.&lt;p&gt;Anecdotally, vets on campus tended to be more &amp;#x27;serious&amp;#x27; than ones that were not drafted. That said, most vets would have elected not to have undergone the experience regardless of their level of involvement in the war.&lt;p&gt;Also, the costs of such programs are very high. If you look at military conscription today, it is limited to countries with small populations or ones that are actively threatened. Mobilizing, feeding, housing, and caring for nearly 450,000 people is not an easy task. The net benefit of this conscription is ambiguous as well. Denmark used to use their conscripts in the care of the elderly and in wildland firefighting, but has since degraded that from their service. Doing so here in the US may be of benefit, but not at the costs that would be sustained. Such work is better left to the professionals, typically.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not even close to an expert in this field, but a cursory look at it suggests that the cost&amp;#x2F;benefit ratio is not close. However, the same can be said of nearly any educational endeavor, yet we know that on a decadeal timeline it pays for itself many times over.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Alternative_civilian_service&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Alternative_civilian_service&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Military_service&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Military_service&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>Students don&apos;t seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)</title><url>https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/01/whats-college-good-for/546590/</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>_hardwaregeek</author><text>There&amp;#x27;s several issues I&amp;#x27;ve noticed as a student. First, kids are told to go to college immediately after high school. If college was high school 2.0, this would be fine. But college is completely different from high school; it&amp;#x27;s significantly more expensive, more free form and more rigorous (at least compared to most high schools). I see so many students who clearly have no clue what they want to do, why they&amp;#x27;re in college (beyond &amp;quot;my parents want me to&amp;quot;) or how to accomplish their goals.&lt;p&gt;Having seen the sheer quantity of kids struggling with simple stuff like cleaning, cooking and not drinking themselves to death, I&amp;#x27;m becoming more and more in favor of a mandatory service at the age of 18. Maybe not military like the IDF, but some sort of program where kids are forced to go away from home and learn to be self sufficient. Little Bobby should learn how to scrub a pot and clean a bathroom before he&amp;#x27;s entrusted with a 240k education. I took a gap year and I was significantly more focused and disciplined than I was in high school. And way better than the majority of my college peers.&lt;p&gt;But even worse than being unprepared for college, I feel like we&amp;#x27;ve been fostering a poor attitude towards learning. I grew up in an academic family, so to me, learning wasn&amp;#x27;t a stage of life. Learning was an essential aspect of being alive. Going to college wasn&amp;#x27;t some arbitrary merit badge that society deems necessary. It was a natural extension of whatever field I wanted to study. I see college as a tool; I need to learn certain topics in order to get what I want in life. Of course, I&amp;#x27;m very fortunate to have taken a gap year and worked as a programmer. If nothing else, I know that I like programming, I&amp;#x27;m good at it and I&amp;#x27;m willing to suffer through the painful parts. It&amp;#x27;s kinda good to know that before I spent 240k on a CS degree.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>krapp</author><text>&amp;gt;Maybe not military like the IDF, but some sort of program where kids are forced to go away from home and learn to be self sufficient.&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s called &amp;quot;adulthood.&amp;quot;</text></comment>