<story><title>NYC subway and bus services have entered &apos;death spiral&apos;, experts say</title><url>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/20/new-york-city-subway-bus-death-spiral-mta-fares</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tikhonj</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s also interesting how people &lt;i&gt;don&amp;#x27;t&lt;/i&gt; see public roads in the same way—people don&amp;#x27;t expect roads to cover their own expenses directly, expect free parking as a human right and bridle at toll roads or gasoline taxes.&lt;p&gt;People need to see public transport as &amp;quot;roads that don&amp;#x27;t need cars&amp;quot;.</text></item><item><author>DoubleGlazing</author><text>The problem with urban transport systems is that no one sees them for what they really are... an expensive thing that drives the economy. There seems to be an obsession in the west with making public transport pay for itself, but the reality is that a few billion invested in better public transport results in a lot more billions being made elsewhere.&lt;p&gt;We need to get away from this idea that public transport systems need to break even or turn a profit. They are there to help make money in other ways. An efficient reliable transport system should cost the taxpayer money, but they will get that back in profit elsewhere through a thriving local economy.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>ProfessorLayton</author><text>Except that most of the wear and tear on our roads isn&amp;#x27;t caused by people&amp;#x27;s cars. People pay &lt;i&gt;much more&lt;/i&gt; than their fair share of road maintenance via gas taxes etc than the industries that cause the most damage to the roads.&lt;p&gt;Semis cause 1,400x more wear than cars [1].&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.lrrb.org&amp;#x2F;pdf&amp;#x2F;201432.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.lrrb.org&amp;#x2F;pdf&amp;#x2F;201432.pdf&lt;/a&gt;</text></comment>
<story><title>NYC subway and bus services have entered &apos;death spiral&apos;, experts say</title><url>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/20/new-york-city-subway-bus-death-spiral-mta-fares</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>tikhonj</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s also interesting how people &lt;i&gt;don&amp;#x27;t&lt;/i&gt; see public roads in the same way—people don&amp;#x27;t expect roads to cover their own expenses directly, expect free parking as a human right and bridle at toll roads or gasoline taxes.&lt;p&gt;People need to see public transport as &amp;quot;roads that don&amp;#x27;t need cars&amp;quot;.</text></item><item><author>DoubleGlazing</author><text>The problem with urban transport systems is that no one sees them for what they really are... an expensive thing that drives the economy. There seems to be an obsession in the west with making public transport pay for itself, but the reality is that a few billion invested in better public transport results in a lot more billions being made elsewhere.&lt;p&gt;We need to get away from this idea that public transport systems need to break even or turn a profit. They are there to help make money in other ways. An efficient reliable transport system should cost the taxpayer money, but they will get that back in profit elsewhere through a thriving local economy.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>elhudy</author><text>People might see roads different from public transportation because they are directly affected by poor Management on the part of public transportation companies.  If your bus is always late, you can&amp;#x27;t sit on the subway because the seat is soaked in piss, and there is no customer support for the $100 card you just purchased which isn&amp;#x27;t working, you might become disinclined to defend the exorbitant costs of public transportation.   As paradoxical as that might seem.</text></comment>