<story><title>Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people</title><url>https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-021-01922-9</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dagorenouf</author><text>Just replying to your last point: sugar and carbohydrates make you fat more than anything else.&lt;p&gt;To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it&amp;#x27;s fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight.&lt;p&gt;Now enter plant based &amp;#x2F; animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat &amp;#x2F; fish &amp;#x2F; chicken?&lt;p&gt;If you&amp;#x27;re some amazing diet expert, I have no doubt you can figure out a way to get to satiety without relying on carbs. But most people, what are they gonna do? Just get two more slices of bread, or 50% more pasta.&lt;p&gt;If you strictly oppose a meat only diet VS a plant only diet, people will be leaner on the first one.</text></item><item><author>cageface</author><text>&lt;i&gt;When it was sugar all along?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Er no, people were told to stop eating fat but of course they didn&amp;#x27;t and average calorie intake went up in all categories. Sugar intake in the US peaked years ago but Americans are fatter than ever. Chicken and cheese consumption is through the roof.&lt;p&gt;Like the article says, being overweight is very unhealthy and almost any diet that keeps you from gaining weight is going to reduce your risks of a lot of illness.&lt;p&gt;The advantage of a plant based diet is that it&amp;#x27;s a lot kinder to the earth and to our animal cousins while also helping you avoid obesity.</text></item><item><author>dagorenouf</author><text>Since meat is seen as unhealthy nowadays, most people who still eat lots of it also tend to be part of the &amp;quot;don&amp;#x27;t care about health&amp;quot; crowd (smokers, drinkers, people who don&amp;#x27;t exercise...).&lt;p&gt;What if don&amp;#x27;t drink, don&amp;#x27;t smoke, do regular exercise, not obese... and eat lots of high quality meat? I haven&amp;#x27;t seen anything that comes close to showing that this would be unhealthy.&lt;p&gt;These studies are quick to point to conclusions. Remember that time where every &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot; study pointed at fat as the big culprit behind heart problems? When it was sugar all along?&lt;p&gt;30 years later the narrative has become: all animal products are bad for you. Stop eating eggs and meat, and eat grains, it&amp;#x27;s better for the planet too!&lt;p&gt;People are getting duped, even on HN, it&amp;#x27;s depressing.</text></item><item><author>pgt</author><text>The term &amp;quot;positive association&amp;quot; makes it hard to parse. The results state: &amp;quot;most of the positive associations observed for meat consumption and health risks were substantially attenuated after adjustment for body mass index (BMI)&amp;quot;, but the Conclusion says:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Higher unprocessed red meat, processed meat, and poultry meat consumption was associated with &lt;i&gt;higher risks&lt;/i&gt; of several common conditions; higher BMI accounted for a substantial proportion of these increased risks suggesting that residual confounding or mediation by adiposity might account for some of these remaining associations. Higher unprocessed red meat and poultry meat consumption was associated with lower IDA risk.&lt;p&gt;So basically &amp;#x27;Red meat is fine but we found a correlation between heart disease and obesity&amp;#x27;?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>gwd</author><text>&amp;gt; To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it&amp;#x27;s fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight.&lt;p&gt;Beans like chickpeas and lentils, or grains like quinoa, have some carbs, but a lot more fiber.  Cook them with a solid dose of olive oil and they&amp;#x27;re both healthy and filling.  Or use coconut oil, which has more saturated fat (making it taste a bit better but be potentially a bit less healthy).&lt;p&gt;A few years ago my wife wanted to try the &amp;quot;plant-based&amp;quot; diet.  I told her I don&amp;#x27;t care what I eat as long as it tastes OK, fills me up, and has enough protein.  We did it for a month, and I never had any problems feeling full, and I definitely didn&amp;#x27;t load up on pasta.  In the end she decided full plant-based wasn&amp;#x27;t for her, but we still end up cooking some of the plant-based recipes we picked up from that time few times a week.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s the recipe &amp;#x2F; workflow thing that&amp;#x27;s really the issue.  You can&amp;#x27;t just eat what you were eating before but without meat, and making imitation meat things is generally a recipe for disappointment.  Making a good-tasting meal with beans or grains takes a shift in mindset and a shift in equipment if you&amp;#x27;re used to making food with meat.  But once you get it figured out, it&amp;#x27;s fine.</text></comment>
<story><title>Meat consumption and risk of 25 conditions: outcome-wide analyses of 475K people</title><url>https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-021-01922-9</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dagorenouf</author><text>Just replying to your last point: sugar and carbohydrates make you fat more than anything else.&lt;p&gt;To fix that, most successful diets rely on increasing the ratio of protein you eat (wether it&amp;#x27;s fish, meat or poultry). It gets you to the same satiety but eating less carbs, and you lose weight.&lt;p&gt;Now enter plant based &amp;#x2F; animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat &amp;#x2F; fish &amp;#x2F; chicken?&lt;p&gt;If you&amp;#x27;re some amazing diet expert, I have no doubt you can figure out a way to get to satiety without relying on carbs. But most people, what are they gonna do? Just get two more slices of bread, or 50% more pasta.&lt;p&gt;If you strictly oppose a meat only diet VS a plant only diet, people will be leaner on the first one.</text></item><item><author>cageface</author><text>&lt;i&gt;When it was sugar all along?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Er no, people were told to stop eating fat but of course they didn&amp;#x27;t and average calorie intake went up in all categories. Sugar intake in the US peaked years ago but Americans are fatter than ever. Chicken and cheese consumption is through the roof.&lt;p&gt;Like the article says, being overweight is very unhealthy and almost any diet that keeps you from gaining weight is going to reduce your risks of a lot of illness.&lt;p&gt;The advantage of a plant based diet is that it&amp;#x27;s a lot kinder to the earth and to our animal cousins while also helping you avoid obesity.</text></item><item><author>dagorenouf</author><text>Since meat is seen as unhealthy nowadays, most people who still eat lots of it also tend to be part of the &amp;quot;don&amp;#x27;t care about health&amp;quot; crowd (smokers, drinkers, people who don&amp;#x27;t exercise...).&lt;p&gt;What if don&amp;#x27;t drink, don&amp;#x27;t smoke, do regular exercise, not obese... and eat lots of high quality meat? I haven&amp;#x27;t seen anything that comes close to showing that this would be unhealthy.&lt;p&gt;These studies are quick to point to conclusions. Remember that time where every &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot; study pointed at fat as the big culprit behind heart problems? When it was sugar all along?&lt;p&gt;30 years later the narrative has become: all animal products are bad for you. Stop eating eggs and meat, and eat grains, it&amp;#x27;s better for the planet too!&lt;p&gt;People are getting duped, even on HN, it&amp;#x27;s depressing.</text></item><item><author>pgt</author><text>The term &amp;quot;positive association&amp;quot; makes it hard to parse. The results state: &amp;quot;most of the positive associations observed for meat consumption and health risks were substantially attenuated after adjustment for body mass index (BMI)&amp;quot;, but the Conclusion says:&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; Higher unprocessed red meat, processed meat, and poultry meat consumption was associated with &lt;i&gt;higher risks&lt;/i&gt; of several common conditions; higher BMI accounted for a substantial proportion of these increased risks suggesting that residual confounding or mediation by adiposity might account for some of these remaining associations. Higher unprocessed red meat and poultry meat consumption was associated with lower IDA risk.&lt;p&gt;So basically &amp;#x27;Red meat is fine but we found a correlation between heart disease and obesity&amp;#x27;?</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>brigandish</author><text>&amp;gt; Now enter plant based &amp;#x2F; animal free diets, how are people gonna get to satiety without all that dense meat &amp;#x2F; fish &amp;#x2F; chicken?&lt;p&gt;I thought vegetarians were famous for eating lots of beans and tofu. Is this no longer part of the stereotype?</text></comment>