<story><title>Alabama prisoners&apos; organs vanish, and there&apos;s a whole lot of passing the buck</title><url>https://www.al.com/news/2024/02/archibald-alabama-prisoners-organs-vanish-and-theres-a-whole-lot-of-passing-the-buck-and-the-bodies.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dsr_</author><text>It crossed my mind, because it is strongly suspected that China does that to low-level political prisoners and members of despised minority groups.&lt;p&gt;2018: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bmj.com&amp;#x2F;content&amp;#x2F;363&amp;#x2F;bmj.k5250&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bmj.com&amp;#x2F;content&amp;#x2F;363&amp;#x2F;bmj.k5250&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;2019: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;jun&amp;#x2F;17&amp;#x2F;china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;jun&amp;#x2F;17&amp;#x2F;china-is-harve...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>ziddoap</author><text>&amp;gt;&lt;i&gt;The title seems to willfully invoke the far more sinister “organ-harvesting”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;No place on earth is more annoyingly finicky about headlines than HN.&lt;p&gt;Black market organ harvesting of live prisoners didn&amp;#x27;t even cross my mind when reading this headline. What makes you think they are willfully invoking that trope? The use of &amp;quot;vanish&amp;quot;?&lt;p&gt;Could you illustrate a better, but still concise, title?</text></item><item><author>alwa</author><text>And also to be clear, “vanish” from people who died in state custody, post-autopsy—not from people who are currently prisoners. And “vanish” to the same medical training uses as non-prisoners’ donated organs.&lt;p&gt;The (very reasonable) question being whether it’s appropriate for the warden rather than the family to authorize the donation, when family is in the picture.&lt;p&gt;The title seems to willfully invoke the far more sinister “organ-harvesting” trope that’s alarmingly a live issue in other carceral systems to this day [0], but that’s not what the article’s actual allegations describe.&lt;p&gt;[0] e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ohchr.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;press-releases&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ohchr.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;press-releases&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;china-un-hum...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>ceejayoz</author><text>To be very clear: not for transplants, but for training med students.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; The students were told the removal of organs were part of autopsies required by law for prisoners. They were told that using them for teaching future physicians “benefits future patients,” and if organs weren’t used they’d be thrown away and would serve no useful purpose.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>woooooo</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s confirmed that, if you&amp;#x27;re executed by the state for treason there, you become an organ donor as part of that deal.  Waste not and all that.&lt;p&gt;The speculative part is where people start making organs the main point of the whole thing, it has a great ick factor if you&amp;#x27;re doing nationalist flamewars.</text></comment>
<story><title>Alabama prisoners&apos; organs vanish, and there&apos;s a whole lot of passing the buck</title><url>https://www.al.com/news/2024/02/archibald-alabama-prisoners-organs-vanish-and-theres-a-whole-lot-of-passing-the-buck-and-the-bodies.html</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>dsr_</author><text>It crossed my mind, because it is strongly suspected that China does that to low-level political prisoners and members of despised minority groups.&lt;p&gt;2018: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bmj.com&amp;#x2F;content&amp;#x2F;363&amp;#x2F;bmj.k5250&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.bmj.com&amp;#x2F;content&amp;#x2F;363&amp;#x2F;bmj.k5250&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;2019: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;jun&amp;#x2F;17&amp;#x2F;china-is-harvesting-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;2019&amp;#x2F;jun&amp;#x2F;17&amp;#x2F;china-is-harve...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>ziddoap</author><text>&amp;gt;&lt;i&gt;The title seems to willfully invoke the far more sinister “organ-harvesting”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;No place on earth is more annoyingly finicky about headlines than HN.&lt;p&gt;Black market organ harvesting of live prisoners didn&amp;#x27;t even cross my mind when reading this headline. What makes you think they are willfully invoking that trope? The use of &amp;quot;vanish&amp;quot;?&lt;p&gt;Could you illustrate a better, but still concise, title?</text></item><item><author>alwa</author><text>And also to be clear, “vanish” from people who died in state custody, post-autopsy—not from people who are currently prisoners. And “vanish” to the same medical training uses as non-prisoners’ donated organs.&lt;p&gt;The (very reasonable) question being whether it’s appropriate for the warden rather than the family to authorize the donation, when family is in the picture.&lt;p&gt;The title seems to willfully invoke the far more sinister “organ-harvesting” trope that’s alarmingly a live issue in other carceral systems to this day [0], but that’s not what the article’s actual allegations describe.&lt;p&gt;[0] e.g. &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ohchr.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;press-releases&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ohchr.org&amp;#x2F;en&amp;#x2F;press-releases&amp;#x2F;2021&amp;#x2F;06&amp;#x2F;china-un-hum...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>ceejayoz</author><text>To be very clear: not for transplants, but for training med students.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; The students were told the removal of organs were part of autopsies required by law for prisoners. They were told that using them for teaching future physicians “benefits future patients,” and if organs weren’t used they’d be thrown away and would serve no useful purpose.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>pessimizer</author><text>No, it&amp;#x27;s constantly accused of such by the Falun Gong (a religious cult that officially believes that David Copperfield is a real wizard), and a lot of western governments looking for something to attack China with amplify the accusation without any evidence. A good way to do that is to cite the conclusions of an &amp;quot;independent tribunal&amp;quot; that no one had heard of, whose only concerns are spreading the consensus about the evils of China and the Chinese, and who are mysteriously funded.&lt;p&gt;Western governments attack enemy regimes by funding religious cults (with associated militias) like MEK and Falun Gong (which are allowed to have multiple OTA TV channels while the Chinese  government are banned from most of the internet.) They also fund fundamentalist Islam in northern Africa, and neo-Nazis in central Asia and eastern Europe.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s important to dismiss &amp;quot;strong suspicions&amp;quot; from semi-anonymous sources and ask for actual evidence, circumstantial or not. &lt;i&gt;Propaganda is supposed to be what we dislike about China.&lt;/i&gt; We shouldn&amp;#x27;t help spread innuendo if that&amp;#x27;s actually a value we have.</text></comment>