<story><title>Create a web app from scratch in under 5 minutes with Meteor and Mailgun</title><url>http://blog.mailgun.net/post/41958103075/create-a-web-app-from-scratch-in-under-5-minutes-with</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>kisielk</author><text>$ curl &lt;a href=&quot;https://install.meteor.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://install.meteor.com&lt;/a&gt; | sh&lt;p&gt;I really wish people would stop giving instructions like this. Despite all the focus on web security and sandboxing, we continue to instruct people to run arbitrary code on their user account.&lt;p&gt;People should at least give any shell script they download from the internet a cursory look to see if it&apos;s doing what it should be doing instead of blindly executing the response from an HTTP request.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>geoffschmidt</author><text>Meteor dev here.. We actually think this is more secure, or at least does more to raise awareness about security! We want people to BE AWARE that they&apos;re running arbitrary code, secured only by the certificate authorities in their local curl install.&lt;p&gt;Just about every other way of installing software ends up letting the remote run arbitrary code on your machine. The disadvantage of the other approaches is that you don&apos;t think about it, so you feel safer than you are, and you are more likely to make security-compromising mistakes.&lt;p&gt;- When you download an OS X installer package and run it, it can run arbitrary code during the install. Is that how you installed Postgres or Rails? Hope you downloaded that disk image over http. (The last time you downloaded a disk image, did you check the link to make sure it was https? ... Are you sure you never forget to do that?)&lt;p&gt;- OK, so let&apos;s say you download a tarball instead, and untar it into /usr/local, and put meteor in your path. Then the next thing you do is.. you type &apos;meteor&apos;, letting the tarball run arbitrary code. There&apos;s not much security difference between letting the remote code run at install time, and letting it run two seconds later when you actually start the program fo the first time.&lt;p&gt;- OK, let&apos;s say you downloaded a Meteor tarball, checked its SHA1-- wait, how did you get the correct SHA1? Did you get it off our website? (Best case, over https, bringing us back where we started?) Or did you call me on the phone.. using the phone number you got off of Facebook.. secured by https? (Best case, and only if you manually added https to your Facebook URL. Did you remember to do that?)&lt;p&gt;- No problem, I&apos;ll get it out of macports, fink, or homebrew, and hopefully they&apos;ll have the correct authoritative hash and validate the download. Well, how do you know you have the real macports? The chain of trust still goes through https and the CA. Arguably this is a little better because presumably many people will notice if the macports download site is hacked, but just as arguably, it&apos;s less secure because there&apos;s one more potential compromise point (volunteer macport maintainers -- how are they vetted? do they use two factor auth? what if their email account is compromised?)&lt;p&gt;There&apos;s really two separate issues here:&lt;p&gt;- Do you trust Meteor enough to run our code? If so, you shouldn&apos;t care whether you run curl | sh or whether you download a tarball and unpack it, and then run the program in it. If not, you shouldn&apos;t do either. They&apos;re equally bad.&lt;p&gt;- Do you trust https and the certificate authorities to protect you from MITM attacks, so that you get the authentic bits from meteor.com and not an imitation? If so, then curl &lt;a href=&quot;https://foo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://foo&lt;/a&gt; solves your problem. If not, you are going to have to find something better than the CA&apos;s to serve as your root of trust.&lt;p&gt;Maybe there is an argument for &quot;defense in depth&quot; -- maybe you should fetch the tarball from one server with one CA, and the SHA1 from a second server with a different CA -- sure, in practice that could make a compromise less likely. But that&apos;s a bit much to ask of the random OS X user that just wants to come to meteor.com and install the tools.&lt;p&gt;Your best option is clearly to come to the monthly DevShop events at Meteor HQ in SF. If you come to DevShop to install Meteor, I will personally confirm the SHA1 for you :)</text></comment>
<story><title>Create a web app from scratch in under 5 minutes with Meteor and Mailgun</title><url>http://blog.mailgun.net/post/41958103075/create-a-web-app-from-scratch-in-under-5-minutes-with</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>kisielk</author><text>$ curl &lt;a href=&quot;https://install.meteor.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https://install.meteor.com&lt;/a&gt; | sh&lt;p&gt;I really wish people would stop giving instructions like this. Despite all the focus on web security and sandboxing, we continue to instruct people to run arbitrary code on their user account.&lt;p&gt;People should at least give any shell script they download from the internet a cursory look to see if it&apos;s doing what it should be doing instead of blindly executing the response from an HTTP request.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>bretthoerner</author><text>I don&apos;t understand this argument, unless you include things like gem, pip, npm, etc.&lt;p&gt;`pip install foobar-py` runs a Python setup script, which can do anything bash can. Do you inspect all of those, and comment about their insecurities on HN?</text></comment>