<story><title>Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses</title><url>https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-court-cisco-must-be-held-accountable-aiding-chinas-human-rights-abuses</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>est</author><text>Quick quiz for you: exactly how many people died on that square you mentioned? If not, where are the killing happened? Which side draw first blood?</text></item><item><author>wmt</author><text>Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution.&lt;p&gt;At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murders a bit more covertly.</text></item><item><author>est</author><text>Falun was banned by mainland China simply because it&amp;#x27;s a Taiwan backed cult organization to gather intel &amp;amp; support coup in government seniors and military. The rest is media propaganda.</text></item><item><author>quantumpotato_</author><text>I talked with a Chinese person who told me why. His explanation:&lt;p&gt;Falun Gong exercises (Tai-Chi like) improved the health of their practicioners. The communist party supported Falun Gong practice because it lowered their healthcare costs.&lt;p&gt;Until there were more members of Falun Gong than Communist party officials. So the latter began hunting the former.&lt;p&gt;Some Chinese fled China, and that&amp;#x27;s how the West know about Falun Gong.&lt;p&gt;Very sad state of affairs.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.falundafa.org&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.falundafa.org&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>meowface</author><text>I didn&amp;#x27;t know a lot about Falun Gong, and did some research.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The fact that there is even a Wikipedia article with this title is horrifying.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Falun Gong practitioners in Changchun intercepted eight cable television networks in Jilin Province, and for nearly an hour, televised a program titled &amp;quot;Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?&amp;quot;. All six of the Falun Gong practitioners involved were captured over the next few months. Two were killed immediately, while the other four were all dead by 2010 as a result of injuries sustained while imprisoned.&lt;p&gt;Falun Gong is a peaceful semi-religion. They&amp;#x27;ve never committed violent acts (as far as I can tell), nor have they even tried to subvert China&amp;#x27;s government. Why in the world is China torturing and killing them? It seems like they&amp;#x27;re doing it merely out of fear they &lt;i&gt;could maybe&lt;/i&gt; one day become a force that would stand against the government. This is very Stalin-esque persecution and paranoia.</text></item><item><author>tim333</author><text>It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation:&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems&lt;p&gt;The Golden Shield Project:&lt;p&gt;Public Network Information Security Monitor System&lt;p&gt;• Stop the network-related crimes&lt;p&gt;• Guarantee the security and services of public network&lt;p&gt;• Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles&lt;p&gt;[Note: Statement of Government goals from speech government offical
Li Runsen]&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Then again it&amp;#x27;s going to be hard to show legally they were doing much more than helping China enforce it&amp;#x27;s laws. Still at least the embarrassment factor may put companies off from getting involved in this stuff.&lt;p&gt;I hope the EFF case makes them release documents related to it.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>aaronbrethorst</author><text>Just for fun, let&amp;#x27;s compare search engine results for the term &amp;quot;tiananmen square&amp;quot;:&lt;p&gt;Google: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.google.com&amp;#x2F;search?q=tiananmen+square&amp;amp;safe=off&amp;amp;client=safari&amp;amp;rls=en&amp;amp;source=lnms&amp;amp;tbm=isch&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;ved=0ahUKEwiCyfXvpKbKAhVP0GMKHfpEATIQ_AUIBygB&amp;amp;biw=1920&amp;amp;bih=893&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.google.com&amp;#x2F;search?q=tiananmen+square&amp;amp;safe=off&amp;amp;cl...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Baidu: &lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;image.baidu.com&amp;#x2F;search&amp;#x2F;index?tn=baiduimage&amp;amp;ps=1&amp;amp;ct=201326592&amp;amp;lm=-1&amp;amp;cl=2&amp;amp;nc=1&amp;amp;ie=utf-8&amp;amp;word=tiananmen%20square&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;image.baidu.com&amp;#x2F;search&amp;#x2F;index?tn=baiduimage&amp;amp;ps=1&amp;amp;ct=20...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Most estimates I see put the number of casualties in the 1000&amp;#x27;s, caused by the side that happened to have, y&amp;#x27;know, tanks.</text></comment>
<story><title>Cisco Must Be Held Accountable for Aiding China’s Human Rights Abuses</title><url>https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-court-cisco-must-be-held-accountable-aiding-chinas-human-rights-abuses</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>est</author><text>Quick quiz for you: exactly how many people died on that square you mentioned? If not, where are the killing happened? Which side draw first blood?</text></item><item><author>wmt</author><text>Yeah right. Until 1999 it received wide support from Chinese officials, but then decided it was too big and started a silly propaganda campaign feeding the gullible with lies like you just told at the same time when they started a violent persecution.&lt;p&gt;At least they had learned something from the bloody Tienanmen massacre, and this time instead sending military to murder piles of unarmed civilians carried out the murders a bit more covertly.</text></item><item><author>est</author><text>Falun was banned by mainland China simply because it&amp;#x27;s a Taiwan backed cult organization to gather intel &amp;amp; support coup in government seniors and military. The rest is media propaganda.</text></item><item><author>quantumpotato_</author><text>I talked with a Chinese person who told me why. His explanation:&lt;p&gt;Falun Gong exercises (Tai-Chi like) improved the health of their practicioners. The communist party supported Falun Gong practice because it lowered their healthcare costs.&lt;p&gt;Until there were more members of Falun Gong than Communist party officials. So the latter began hunting the former.&lt;p&gt;Some Chinese fled China, and that&amp;#x27;s how the West know about Falun Gong.&lt;p&gt;Very sad state of affairs.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.falundafa.org&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.falundafa.org&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>meowface</author><text>I didn&amp;#x27;t know a lot about Falun Gong, and did some research.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;The fact that there is even a Wikipedia article with this title is horrifying.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Falun Gong practitioners in Changchun intercepted eight cable television networks in Jilin Province, and for nearly an hour, televised a program titled &amp;quot;Self-Immolation or a Staged Act?&amp;quot;. All six of the Falun Gong practitioners involved were captured over the next few months. Two were killed immediately, while the other four were all dead by 2010 as a result of injuries sustained while imprisoned.&lt;p&gt;Falun Gong is a peaceful semi-religion. They&amp;#x27;ve never committed violent acts (as far as I can tell), nor have they even tried to subvert China&amp;#x27;s government. Why in the world is China torturing and killing them? It seems like they&amp;#x27;re doing it merely out of fear they &lt;i&gt;could maybe&lt;/i&gt; one day become a force that would stand against the government. This is very Stalin-esque persecution and paranoia.</text></item><item><author>tim333</author><text>It seems clear Cisco knew their systems were going to be used against Falun Gong. Leaked Cisco presentation:&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Cisco Confidential 57 © 2002, Cisco Systems&lt;p&gt;The Golden Shield Project:&lt;p&gt;Public Network Information Security Monitor System&lt;p&gt;• Stop the network-related crimes&lt;p&gt;• Guarantee the security and services of public network&lt;p&gt;• Combat “Falun Gong” evil religion and other hostiles&lt;p&gt;[Note: Statement of Government goals from speech government offical
Li Runsen]&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Then again it&amp;#x27;s going to be hard to show legally they were doing much more than helping China enforce it&amp;#x27;s laws. Still at least the embarrassment factor may put companies off from getting involved in this stuff.&lt;p&gt;I hope the EFF case makes them release documents related to it.</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>peterwwillis</author><text>You don&amp;#x27;t know?&lt;p&gt;The estimates for the civilians killed in the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 range from hundreds to thousands - no exact count is available.&lt;p&gt;In terms of &amp;quot;which side drew first blood&amp;quot;, you could say the &amp;quot;side&amp;quot; of the student protesters, though there&amp;#x27;s no evidence of &amp;quot;blood&amp;quot; in their actions (as they had no weapons).&lt;p&gt;The morning of June 3, protesters clashed with unarmed soldiers trying to force them out of the square, momentarily forcing the army to retreat. By 10pm that night, the army began firing live ammunition at the protesters and the fatalities commenced.</text></comment>