<story><title>Google Fiber Was Doomed from the Start</title><url>https://backchannel.com/google-fiber-was-doomed-from-the-start-a5cdfacdd7f2#.rhxzu4r91</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>mindcrime</author><text>&lt;i&gt;The only business model for fiber that will work to produce the competition, low prices, and world-class data transport we need — certainly in urban areas — is to get local governments involved in overseeing basic, street grid-like “dark” (passive, unlit with electronics) fiber available at a set, wholesale price to a zillion retail providers of access and services&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s an interesting assertion, but not supported by any evidence that I can see.  And OTOH, there is direct contradictory evidence suggesting that there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; another viable business model for building this kind of infrastructure:  non-profit member-owned cooperatives.  The same kind that provide telephone, cable and electric service all over the country[1].&lt;p&gt;Note that I&amp;#x27;m not saying that cooperatives are a panacea, but their existence is evidence that other options are available.  And before somebody screams &amp;quot;but aren&amp;#x27;t they all subsidized by the government&amp;quot;, I would argue that if the kind long-term stable returns that the author of TFA speaks of are really available, then there&amp;#x27;s no reason to think that a coop couldn&amp;#x27;t get a loan (or equity investment) from private institutions.&lt;p&gt;My guess is that the biggest thing preventing this kind of thing from happening more often is exactly the amount of red-tape and government regulation involved.&lt;p&gt;[1]:&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Utility_cooperative&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Utility_cooperative&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>13871292throwaw</author><text>&amp;gt; My guess is that the biggest thing preventing this kind of thing from happening more often is exactly the amount of red-tape and government regulation involved.&lt;p&gt;I was briefly and directly involved with the Google Fiber rollout here in Austin.  Here&amp;#x27;s the thing: anyone with firsthand information is unlikely to drop in to set things straight in a way that gives away any amount of detail, purely because in the professional world it would be unbecoming to say the kinds of things that would necessarily come out.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t expect that local government intervention and red-tape could be called the major contributing factor here.&lt;p&gt;From someone involved at the end I was working from, dbg31415&amp;#x27;s comments are exactly what I would expect the other end to feel like.&lt;p&gt;The thing you have to understand is this: generally speaking, the people involved with the labor on this kind of project inhabit a completely different world than the one that you or I or the rest of a site like HN lives in.  That applies to the boys in the field doing the work, to the boys in the office shuffling paperwork and signing off on their checks.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s unsurprising to me to hear that the labor costs are out of control, and to hear that Google was halting expansion to other cities this past fall was like hearing someone say that they smashed their fingers in the door and it hurt.&lt;p&gt;6d11e0a226cb3b6b24dc05bd96ebb7b176c29b587512fae370d5c825ff5a08bf742152134a1e75c9104b8944fbae2b4640757e2533b41f44ceefbb04be602103</text></comment>
<story><title>Google Fiber Was Doomed from the Start</title><url>https://backchannel.com/google-fiber-was-doomed-from-the-start-a5cdfacdd7f2#.rhxzu4r91</url></story><parent_chain><item><author>mindcrime</author><text>&lt;i&gt;The only business model for fiber that will work to produce the competition, low prices, and world-class data transport we need — certainly in urban areas — is to get local governments involved in overseeing basic, street grid-like “dark” (passive, unlit with electronics) fiber available at a set, wholesale price to a zillion retail providers of access and services&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s an interesting assertion, but not supported by any evidence that I can see.  And OTOH, there is direct contradictory evidence suggesting that there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; another viable business model for building this kind of infrastructure:  non-profit member-owned cooperatives.  The same kind that provide telephone, cable and electric service all over the country[1].&lt;p&gt;Note that I&amp;#x27;m not saying that cooperatives are a panacea, but their existence is evidence that other options are available.  And before somebody screams &amp;quot;but aren&amp;#x27;t they all subsidized by the government&amp;quot;, I would argue that if the kind long-term stable returns that the author of TFA speaks of are really available, then there&amp;#x27;s no reason to think that a coop couldn&amp;#x27;t get a loan (or equity investment) from private institutions.&lt;p&gt;My guess is that the biggest thing preventing this kind of thing from happening more often is exactly the amount of red-tape and government regulation involved.&lt;p&gt;[1]:&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Utility_cooperative&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Utility_cooperative&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain><comment><author>jackmott</author><text>&amp;gt;non-profit member-owned cooperatives&lt;p&gt;some might call that government</text></comment>