[ amy @ sdsc . edu : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd ) ] vince , stinson , looks like just me and jim irvine attending this one may
suffice since this is a working group meeting . as the note describes below ,
there will be a separate trip for you guys and me to determine long - term
involvement , etc . . . let me now when to schedule .
vince and stinson may want to
wait until kc claffy or i can visit portland , or have several enron
reps visit san diego for demos and related discussions .
ravi .
- - - - - forwarded by ravi thuraisingham / enron communications on 02 / 29 / 00 01 : 28
pm - - - - -
tmonk @ caida . org
02 / 29 / 00 09 : 18 am
to : ravi thuraisingham / enron communications @ enron communications
cc : amy @ caida . org , tmonk @ caida . org
subject : [ amy @ sdsc . edu : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd ) ]
ravi ,
hi , amy forwarded me your note . since thursday is the kick off
discussions for the new working group , it might not be the ideal venue
for enron to get acquainted with caida . vince and stinson may want to
wait until kc claffy or i can visit portland , or have several enron
reps visit san diego for demos and related discussions .
we have been talking to stan hanks for some time about enron ' s
interests in passive measurement and are in the process of implementing
some of the performance features in coralreef that he has described as
relevant to enron . examples of existing coralreef analyses on oc 3 / 12
links can be found at :
( real - time )
https : / / anala . caida . org / aix /
( post - processed traces )
we are also working to better tune the skitter tool for reachability
analysis and for use by providers , an example of some existing
analyses can be found at
for end - to - end measurements , including those relating to service level
guarantees , we are working to make skping and sktrace more useful to
providers and their noc personnel , see
another tool of relevance to providers is our cflowd which analyzes
flow export data from cisco routers , see
http : / / www . caida . org / tools / cflowd / .
we would appreciate the opportunity to talk with enron personnel about
how to make these tools more relevant and useful to your needs ,
however , it is doubtful that we will have time to discuss specific
tools on thursday .
we look forward to meeting you soon !
take care ,
tracie monk
director , caida
858 / 822 - 0943
- - - - - - - - - - forwarded message - - - - - - - - - -
to : amy @ sdsc . edu
cc : christine _ blair @ enron . net , kristy _ carnes @ enron . net
date : thu , 24 feb 2000 19 : 52 : 00 - 0600
subject : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd )
hi amy , jim irvine ( ebs head of network planning ) and i ( team lead , ebs
research ) will attend the meeting . we will have our assistances ( christine
blair
& kristy carnes , respectively ) arrange the trip . we will plan to come in the
night before and return on march 2 , 00 .
also , either vince kaminski ( md and head of enron research ) or stinson gibner
( vp , enron research ) may also attend . they will let me know shortly if they
plan to attend .
regards ,
ravi .
p . s . our company name has been changed to enron broadband services
kristy , christine please make the appropriate travel arrangements . the place ,
time , etc . are listed .
| - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
| | amy @ sdsc . edu |
| | |
| | 02 / 24 / 00 |
| | 07 : 07 pm |
| | |
| - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
| |
| to : ravi thuraisingham / enron communications @ enron
communications |
| cc :
|
| subject : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00
( fwd ) |
hi ravi ,
i wanted to follow up directly with you and see if you or anyone at enron
had any interest in participating in the proposed caida " metrics " working
group meeting ?
please let me know .
amy e . blanchard
caida
% % % % % % % % % % % % %
e - mail : amy @ caida . org
phone : ( 858 ) 534 - 8338
fax : ( 858 ) 534 - 5117
b . wg charters , meeting on 2 mar 00
i believe that we should instead run a single caida working group
on ' network metrics , ' rather than the two proposed earlier . my draft
of its charter is appended below . it focuses on producing educational
material about network measurement , and on developing new metrics - these
were the two areas of greatest interest amongst the caida members .
the wg co - chairs are
sue moon ( sprintlabs ) and brett watson ( mfn / abovenet )
you are invited to attend the first wg meeting .
the agenda is as follows . .
agenda for caida wg meeting on : thursday 2 mar 00
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
10 am - 4 pm , abovenet , downtown sjc ( see below for details )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1 . review wg charter
- is it reasonable as set out in the draft ?
- what should be removed or added ?
2 . work through revised charter in detail
- identify the work required for each part
- determine who ' s willing to work on it
- attempt to determine delivery times
3 . discussion of new metrics
- first attempt at making a list of metrics to be considered
4 . anything else ?
location : abovenet is located in the knight - ridder building ,
attached to the fairmont hotel complex . the address is
50 w . san fernando st .
san jose , ca 95113
rsvp : to help us with organising the meeting , please send email to
nevil @ caida . org telling us how many will attend from
your organisation .
cheers , nevil
nevil brownlee visiting researcher
phone : ( 619 ) 822 0893 caida , san diego
caida network metrics working group : draft charter , tue 23 feb 00
goals :
1 education
+ faq on what does ' measuring the internet actually mean ? '
- why measure anyway ?
- what can be measured ? how ? where ? by whom ?
- active vs passive , end - to - end vs provider network only ,
application vs transport layer
- rating schemes : provider ' net performance ' pages , internet
' weather map ' s , keynote , etc .
publish as caida web pages , or maybe as an info rfc
+ survey paper on metrics and internet measurement
- current measurement efforts ( surveyor , ripe test traffic ,
amp , iperf , at & t , keynote , skitter , . . . )
- current tools
publish as caida web pages
2 service metrics
+ define new metrics
- taxonomy of current metrics ( ippm , rtfm , itu , . . )
- summary of metrics used for current services
- gather information / ideas about new / emerging services ,
especially diffserv - based ones
- make list of new metrics , either to improve measurement of
existing services or to support new ones
[ list of ' metrics ' questions ( appendix a ) goes here ]
+ organise experimental implementation / testing of tools
for new metrics
+ make recommendations on implementation
- define core set of ' really useful ' metrics
- recommend that caida implement these as a
' service measurement toolkit '
+ publish new metric definitions through ippm or rtfm
+ produce document " measurement requirements for hardware / software
vendors . " publish on caida web pages
appendix a : questions from the earlier draft caida wg charters
a . what types of network - and transport - layer metrics are being
used by isps in engineering and operating their networks ?
by customers for verifying service guarantees ?
b . what new services are being ( or are likely to be ) offered , e . g .
diffserv ? is there a need for higher - layer metrics to better
monitor and manage these services ?
c . will these new differentiated transport - and
application - layer services need new metrics ?
d . how can the service metrics be measured in a multi - isp
environment ?
e . how can customers verify these measurements ?
f . what requirements would service measurement introduce for
equipment vendors ?
g . how relevant are specific techniques ( e . g . which flow ) and
points of measurement to specific users ( isp , customer , etc . )
requirements ?
h . how do these metrics relate to network behavior as perceived
by users ? how do they correlate with performance ?
appendix b : background on the ietf working groups
* rtfm wg : realtime traffic flow measurement
rtfm is concerned with passive measurements of two - way traffic flows ,
specified in terms of their end - point attributes . its primary goal was
to produce an improved traffic flow measurement model considering at least the
following needs :
a . wider range of measurable quantities , e . g . those
relating to ipv 6 , and to class of service
b . simpler ways to specify flows of interest
c . better ways to control access to measured flow data
d . strong focus on data reduction capabilities
e . efficient hardware implementation
* ippm wg : ip performance measurement
the ippm wg charter is to develop a set of standard metrics that can
be applied to the quality , performance , and reliability of internet
data delivery services . these metrics will be designed such that they
can be performed by network operators , end users , or independent
testing groups . it is important that the metrics not represent a value
judgement ( i . e . define " good " and " bad " ) , but rather provide unbiased
quantitative measures of performance .
rfcs
framework for ip performance metrics ( rfc 2330 )
metrics :
connectivity ( rfc 2678 ) ,
one - way delay ( rfc 2679 ) , one - way packet loss ( rfc 2680 )
round - trip delay ( rfc 2681 )
i - ds
bulk transfer capacity ( 2 x )
instantaneous packet delay variation
one - way loss patterns
* other wgs
the rmonmib wg is thinking about ' application performance
measurement . ' this is clearly a hard problem ( e . g . does this just
mean response - time measurement , can it be done by passive means , how
should the measurements be presented , etc . ) .
in short
- rtfm provides a good distributed measuring system for traffic
volumes
- ippm has concentrated on transport - layer behaviour of the
current , best - effort internet .
- rmonmib is beginning to consider application - layer measurement
- - - - - end of forwarded message - - - - -
[ amy @ sdsc . edu : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd ) ]
vince , stinson , looks like just me and jim irvine attending this one may
suffice since this is a working group meeting . as the note describes below ,
there will be a separate trip for you guys and me to determine long - term
involvement , etc . . . let me now when to schedule .
vince and stinson may want to
wait until kc claffy or i can visit portland , or have several enron
reps visit san diego for demos and related discussions .
ravi .
- - - - - forwarded by ravi thuraisingham / enron communications on 02 / 29 / 00 01 : 28
pm - - - - -
tmonk @ caida . org
02 / 29 / 00 09 : 18 am
to : ravi thuraisingham / enron communications @ enron communications
cc : amy @ caida . org , tmonk @ caida . org
subject : [ amy @ sdsc . edu : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd ) ]
ravi ,
hi , amy forwarded me your note . since thursday is the kick off
discussions for the new working group , it might not be the ideal venue
for enron to get acquainted with caida . vince and stinson may want to
wait until kc claffy or i can visit portland , or have several enron
reps visit san diego for demos and related discussions .
we have been talking to stan hanks for some time about enron ' s
interests in passive measurement and are in the process of implementing
some of the performance features in coralreef that he has described as
relevant to enron . examples of existing coralreef analyses on oc 3 / 12
links can be found at :
( real - time )
https : / / anala . caida . org / aix /
( post - processed traces )
we are also working to better tune the skitter tool for reachability
analysis and for use by providers , an example of some existing
analyses can be found at
for end - to - end measurements , including those relating to service level
guarantees , we are working to make skping and sktrace more useful to
providers and their noc personnel , see
another tool of relevance to providers is our cflowd which analyzes
flow export data from cisco routers , see
http : / / www . caida . org / tools / cflowd / .
we would appreciate the opportunity to talk with enron personnel about
how to make these tools more relevant and useful to your needs ,
however , it is doubtful that we will have time to discuss specific
tools on thursday .
we look forward to meeting you soon !
take care ,
tracie monk
director , caida
858 / 822 - 0943
- - - - - - - - - - forwarded message - - - - - - - - - -
to : amy @ sdsc . edu
cc : christine _ blair @ enron . net , kristy _ carnes @ enron . net
date : thu , 24 feb 2000 19 : 52 : 00 - 0600
subject : re : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00 ( fwd )
hi amy , jim irvine ( ebs head of network planning ) and i ( team lead , ebs
research ) will attend the meeting . we will have our assistances ( christine
blair
& kristy carnes , respectively ) arrange the trip . we will plan to come in the
night before and return on march 2 , 00 .
also , either vince kaminski ( md and head of enron research ) or stinson gibner
( vp , enron research ) may also attend . they will let me know shortly if they
plan to attend .
regards ,
ravi .
p . s . our company name has been changed to enron broadband services
kristy , christine please make the appropriate travel arrangements . the place ,
time , etc . are listed .
| - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
| | amy @ sdsc . edu |
| | |
| | 02 / 24 / 00 |
| | 07 : 07 pm |
| | |
| - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
| |
| to : ravi thuraisingham / enron communications @ enron
communications |
| cc :
|
| subject : caida ' metrics ' wg meeting , 2 mar 00
( fwd ) |
hi ravi ,
i wanted to follow up directly with you and see if you or anyone at enron
had any interest in participating in the proposed caida " metrics " working
group meeting ?
please let me know .
amy e . blanchard
caida
% % % % % % % % % % % % %
e - mail : amy @ caida . org
phone : ( 858 ) 534 - 8338
fax : ( 858 ) 534 - 5117
b . wg charters , meeting on 2 mar 00
i believe that we should instead run a single caida working group
on ' network metrics , ' rather than the two proposed earlier . my draft
of its charter is appended below . it focuses on producing educational
material about network measurement , and on developing new metrics - these
were the two areas of greatest interest amongst the caida members .
the wg co - chairs are
sue moon ( sprintlabs ) and brett watson ( mfn / abovenet )
you are invited to attend the first wg meeting .
the agenda is as follows . .
agenda for caida wg meeting on : thursday 2 mar 00
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
10 am - 4 pm , abovenet , downtown sjc ( see below for details )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1 . review wg charter
- is it reasonable as set out in the draft ?
- what should be removed or added ?
2 . work through revised charter in detail
- identify the work required for each part
- determine who ' s willing to work on it
- attempt to determine delivery times
3 . discussion of new metrics
- first attempt at making a list of metrics to be considered
4 . anything else ?
location : abovenet is located in the knight - ridder building ,
attached to the fairmont hotel complex . the address is
50 w . san fernando st .
san jose , ca 95113
rsvp : to help us with organising the meeting , please send email to
nevil @ caida . org telling us how many will attend from
your organisation .
cheers , nevil
nevil brownlee visiting researcher
phone : ( 619 ) 822 0893 caida , san diego
caida network metrics working group : draft charter , tue 23 feb 00
goals :
1 education
+ faq on what does ' measuring the internet actually mean ? '
- why measure anyway ?
- what can be measured ? how ? where ? by whom ?
- active vs passive , end - to - end vs provider network only ,
application vs transport layer
- rating schemes : provider ' net performance ' pages , internet
' weather map ' s , keynote , etc .
publish as caida web pages , or maybe as an info rfc
+ survey paper on metrics and internet measurement
- current measurement efforts ( surveyor , ripe test traffic ,
amp , iperf , at & t , keynote , skitter , . . . )
- current tools
publish as caida web pages
2 service metrics
+ define new metrics
- taxonomy of current metrics ( ippm , rtfm , itu , . . )
- summary of metrics used for current services
- gather information / ideas about new / emerging services ,
especially diffserv - based ones
- make list of new metrics , either to improve measurement of
existing services or to support new ones
[ list of ' metrics ' questions ( appendix a ) goes here ]
+ organise experimental implementation / testing of tools
for new metrics
+ make recommendations on implementation
- define core set of ' really useful ' metrics
- recommend that caida implement these as a
' service measurement toolkit '
+ publish new metric definitions through ippm or rtfm
+ produce document " measurement requirements for hardware / software
vendors . " publish on caida web pages
appendix a : questions from the earlier draft caida wg charters
a . what types of network - and transport - layer metrics are being
used by isps in engineering and operating their networks ?
by customers for verifying service guarantees ?
b . what new services are being ( or are likely to be ) offered , e . g .
diffserv ? is there a need for higher - layer metrics to better
monitor and manage these services ?
c . will these new differentiated transport - and
application - layer services need new metrics ?
d . how can the service metrics be measured in a multi - isp
environment ?
e . how can customers verify these measurements ?
f . what requirements would service measurement introduce for
equipment vendors ?
g . how relevant are specific techniques ( e . g . which flow ) and
points of measurement to specific users ( isp , customer , etc . )
requirements ?
h . how do these metrics relate to network behavior as perceived
by users ? how do they correlate with performance ?
appendix b : background on the ietf working groups
* rtfm wg : realtime traffic flow measurement
rtfm is concerned with passive measurements of two - way traffic flows ,
specified in terms of their end - point attributes . its primary goal was
to produce an improved traffic flow measurement model considering at least the
following needs :
a . wider range of measurable quantities , e . g . those
relating to ipv 6 , and to class of service
b . simpler ways to specify flows of interest
c . better ways to control access to measured flow data
d . strong focus on data reduction capabilities
e . efficient hardware implementation
* ippm wg : ip performance measurement
the ippm wg charter is to develop a set of standard metrics that can
be applied to the quality , performance , and reliability of internet
data delivery services . these metrics will be designed such that they
can be performed by network operators , end users , or independent
testing groups . it is important that the metrics not represent a value
judgement ( i . e . define " good " and " bad " ) , but rather provide unbiased
quantitative measures of performance .
rfcs
framework for ip performance metrics ( rfc 2330 )
metrics :
connectivity ( rfc 2678 ) ,
one - way delay ( rfc 2679 ) , one - way packet loss ( rfc 2680 )
round - trip delay ( rfc 2681 )
i - ds
bulk transfer capacity ( 2 x )
instantaneous packet delay variation
one - way loss patterns
* other wgs
the rmonmib wg is thinking about ' application performance
measurement . ' this is clearly a hard problem ( e . g . does this just
mean response - time measurement , can it be done by passive means , how
should the measurements be presented , etc . ) .
in short
- rtfm provides a good distributed measuring system for traffic
volumes
- ippm has concentrated on transport - layer behaviour of the
current , best - effort internet .
- rmonmib is beginning to consider application - layer measurement
- - - - - end of forwarded message - - - - -