2011/06/10/#kubuntu-devel.txt

[00:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: from an upstream POV no release scheduling for the frameworks would be entirely harmful
[00:12] <apachelogger> essentially it would tear apart the foundations of KDE applications
[00:12] <apachelogger> to that degree KDE frameworks is the foundation, in order to build a solid app you need a solid foundation
[00:14] <apachelogger> whether anything but the core workspace should be bound to the release schedule of the framework is however a more approachable topic for discussion IMHO
[00:17] <yofel> hm, apachelogger: you think I can get a kde svn acc. for editing that page? Not sure if that's reason enough to get one since I don't really do any other work for KDE directly ATM
[00:19] <yofel> I don't really want to run after people for every release either though...
[00:23] <apachelogger> well
[00:23] <apachelogger> yofel: I believe you'll need www karma too :P
[00:24] <yofel> ...
[00:24] <apachelogger> yofel: what shall I add to that inc?
[00:25] <yofel> There's a Kubuntu entry already, uncomment it, fix the release version and the kubuntu.org link
[00:25] <apachelogger> roger
[00:26] <apachelogger> yofel: identity.kde.org -> register -> login -> you should be able to request dev account from there -> name me as advocate -> if at all possible also mention clearly that you will need access to those pages and thus likely www karma
[00:26] <d_ed> does Kubuntu have guest login?
[00:27] <apachelogger> no, there was a todo for that at some point I believe
[00:27] <apachelogger> never got implemented
[00:27] <d_ed> yeah, would you like it?
[00:28] <yofel> apachelogger: define www karma...
[00:29] <d_ed> I'll implement it into QLightDM, we can decide later if we want to support it in the greeter.
[00:30] <apachelogger> yofel: advanced access, so one can edit kde websites
[00:30] <d_ed> should be no work.
[00:30] <apachelogger> not every developer gets access to those
[00:30] <apachelogger> as one could inflict directly user visible damage and what not
[00:31] <apachelogger> d_ed: IMHO guest accounts are worthwhile, if done well from a security perspective
[00:31] <yofel> ah k
[00:33] <CIA-6> sitter * 1235859 * trunk/www/sites/www/info/binary-4.6.4.inc 4.6.4 for kubuntu
[00:33] <yofel> thanks :)
[00:33] <apachelogger> yw
[00:39] <txwikinger> apachelogger: ?
[00:41] <apachelogger> txwikinger: nvm
[01:08] <Blizzz> apachelogger: Desktop Summmit? Should work
[01:08] <apachelogger> yay
[01:08]  * apachelogger hugs Blizzz
[01:08] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ^ I got better accomodation :P
[01:08] <Blizzz> apachelogger: ah! i am not in Berlin till Sunday afternoon
[01:09] <Blizzz> if u arrive Fri, it should fit again
[01:09] <apachelogger> I arrive saturday, or even sunday, so no problem eitherway
[01:09] <Blizzz> or someone else is gonna be here
[01:09] <Blizzz> ok
[01:09]  * apachelogger can stay one night in a hotel/hostel/trainstation ^^
[01:10] <apachelogger> I believe it is sunday though, unless my sister moved here wedding around again ^^
[01:10] <apachelogger> s/here/her
[01:10] <cnd> anyone know how to rebuild the qt4-x11 package after modifying some source code?
[01:11] <cnd> when I attempt a rebuild it just executes the last step (dh binary --parallel --with pkgkde_symbolshelper,lzma)
[01:11] <cnd> it doesn't realize that some source files have changed and some may need to be rebuilt
[01:12] <cnd> apachelogger, ^^?
[01:15] <apachelogger> debuild -us -uc
[01:15] <cnd> apachelogger, won't that clean the build and start from scratch?
[01:15] <apachelogger> yes
[01:16] <yofel> dpkg-buidpackage -j<number of jobs> should be faster
[01:16] <cnd> I only want to rebuild the stuff that's changed
[01:16] <cnd> yofel, I've been using DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=16
[01:16] <apachelogger> a target that once was processed will not be processed again (i.e. calling binary will not call build)
[01:16] <yofel> heh
[01:17] <yofel> well, he could make the target PHONY I think
[01:17] <yofel> (or I don't understand make)
[01:17] <cnd> apachelogger, seems like that should be changed, especially for something that takes as long as qt to build :)
[01:17] <cnd> I don't really know how to make it work though...
[01:17] <apachelogger> so either you manually run the build target or make or remove whatever marker there might be, or you do a clean build
[01:17] <apachelogger> yofel: you should read the make manual my friend
[01:17] <cnd> but if I had to do that for the kernel or xorg-server (where I mainly hack), I would be throwing fits :)
[01:18] <apachelogger> a pony target does no more than indicate that the target is not a file
[01:18] <yofel> apachelogger: I did (most of it at least) and IIRC .phony targets were exectued whether they need to be built or not
[01:18] <yofel> hm...
[01:18]  * yofel goes back to reading the manual
[01:19] <apachelogger> yofel: that would imply that binary also does build
[01:19] <cnd> I guess I'll kick off a new build...
[01:19] <yofel> ah right :S
[01:19] <apachelogger> so I'd say build creates a file that it checks later
[01:20] <apachelogger> actually IIRC a phony target will only be executed upon direct call
[01:20] <cnd> IIRC, I tracked it down once, but it's something really hairy to change given the current build system of the qt4-x11 package
[01:20] <apachelogger> so unless the target is prequesite of another target it will not get run at all
[01:21] <apachelogger> cnd: just run make
[01:21] <apachelogger> and then make -f debian/rules install
[01:21] <apachelogger> and then binary
[01:21] <apachelogger> with a bit of luck that should pick up stuffz
[01:46] <cnd> apachelogger, I'll try that next time :)
[01:46] <cnd> thanks!
[01:46] <apachelogger> np
[02:34] <apachelogger> yofel: we might want to hold off on split tars of 4.7 for now
[02:34] <apachelogger> perhaps only throw non-split stuff in a PPA?
[02:34] <apachelogger> seems we'll get mono tars for 4.7b2 and those are going to stay for all of 4.x
[02:35] <yofel> I would've waited with those for a final word from the release team anyway
[02:35] <yofel> or we would've just done useless work
[02:36]  * yofel needs a touchpad for his desktop PC
[02:36] <yofel> using notebooks a lot makes a mouse feel odd when you actually do use one -.-
[02:37]  * yofel wonders if that apple trackpad would work
[02:47] <yofel> I wonder if one can make lightDM buildable without gnome at some point...
[02:47] <yofel> $ ./autogen.sh 
[02:47] <yofel> You need to install gnome-common from the GNOME CVS
[02:47] <yofel> -.-
[02:49] <apachelogger> yofel: we could surely package libs,pimlibs and perhaps workspace
[02:50] <apachelogger> yofel: gnome-common should not require gnome stuff I think
[02:50] <apachelogger> just common buildsystem stuff IIRC
[02:50] <apachelogger> yofel: also thread about further release stuff on kde-release, in case you want to chip in
[02:50] <yofel> ah, I'll check
[02:51] <yofel> workspace is split currently, not sure if we want that, pim/libs is fine though
[02:54] <apachelogger> yofel: I thought workspace was mono, except for wallies?
[02:54] <yofel> workspace was part of kdebase, so I'm not sure if they'll put that back together
[02:55] <yofel> ah wait, that was seperate anyway
[02:55]  * yofel is too tired
[02:55]  * JontheEchidna adds kaccessible to the CD since it's now in main
[02:57]  * apachelogger needs to learn going to bed at a sensible time :O
[02:58]  * yofel too
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> it's only 22:00 here
[02:58] <yofel> 4:00 AM here
[02:58] <JontheEchidna> I've been staying up until 0300 local time though :s
[03:14] <JontheEchidna> so I know at least one reason why kde-window-manager depends on the whole kdebase-workspace-bin
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> the Oxygen KWin style is part of the kde-window-manager package which depends on liboxygenstyle, which is a library with a non-guaranteed A{P/B}I which lives in kdebase-workspace-bin
[03:16] <JontheEchidna> Solutions to this I see are:
[03:16] <JontheEchidna> - Split the WM themes in kde-window-manager (or at least oxygen) out into individual packages
[03:17] <JontheEchidna> - Split liboxygenstyle out of kdebase-workspace-bin and use the Debian ABI manager stuff to help with the potential breaks-with-no-abi-change
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> This is another example of something that could cause problems with KDE's demodularization, since there are a set of libraries in kdebase-workspace that currently have no expectation of a stable API/ABI
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> we have seen a little bit of this already with third-party taskbar widgets using libtaskmanager from kdebase-workspace
[03:22] <JontheEchidna> They could get away with this within KDE proper in the past, since everything was released together and was (re)built together, meaning that the code released would either be rebuilt for ABI changes or had been updated for API changes since everything had to at least build
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> but if things get too decentralized without a plan, we could have situations like abi breakage with third party task manager widgets within KDE proper
[03:23]  * yofel remembers the kwin breakage in neon which was essentially an ABI mismatch between stable liboxygen loaded by KDM and neon liboxygen used by kwin
[03:24] <JontheEchidna> I am all for splitting in to smaller tarballs, and maybe even forcing more stability in internal API is good, but the haphazard handling that has come about of it so far is worrying.
[03:25] <yofel> well, they are discussing it at least. What I'm confused about is what they are discussing now. Somehow it seems they're trying to redefine what it is they're shipping yet again...
[03:25] <yofel> and we still have no final word how 4.7 will look like. Neither beta2 in sight
[03:26] <JontheEchidna> oh, looks like the whole kde-workspace folder is still together in one tar, so maybe workspace libs aren't too big of a thing to worry about
[03:26] <yofel> yeah, kdebase is pretty much split up as we had it, except konsole which is seperate now and they took the wallpapers out of workspace
[03:26] <JontheEchidna> nobody likes downloading wallpapers if they don't have to :P
[03:27] <yofel> not much change in our binary package layout though
[03:27] <JontheEchidna> yeah, splitting is just going to cause a lot of work moving stuff around
[03:27] <yofel> well, more like git sucks at handling large binary files :P
[03:28] <yofel> wallpapers are still in svn
[03:28]  * yofel wonders if we could recompress oxygen-icons with xz, would help a LOT
[03:28] <JontheEchidna> I think my api/abi argument stands, though, since lots of the kdegraphics libs seem to be separate now, and digikam loves to depend against shiny new abi-breaking versions
[03:29] <yofel> yeah, we already have 5 project-neon-lib* packages, and it'll only get worse it seems
[03:42]  * yofel is off to bed finally, good night
=== JontheEchidna changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Computing | Merges: https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html | TODO: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[04:12] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I made sure upstream knows about that implication
[04:12] <apachelogger> did not attend the relevant discussion though, steveire knows more
[05:11] <JontheEchidna> lol: [00:08:39] <fredrikh> sreich: i think you mean the kscf5dkfksc4 (kde sc frameworks 5 development kit for kde sc 4)
[06:39] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: lol
[07:00] <jussi> shadeslayer: whens your exam?
[07:02] <shadeslayer> jussi: 3 hours
[07:03] <shadeslayer> i'm pretty much sleepwalking around the houser
[07:03] <shadeslayer> -r
[07:03] <shadeslayer> soooo flipping tired
[07:06] <jussi> shadeslayer: try to sleep, it will help you concentrate :D
[07:14] <shadeslayer> jussi: can't .... too tensed
[07:15]  * jussi hugs shadeslayer
[07:15] <shadeslayer> anyways, i'm signing off ...
[07:15] <jussi> laters
[07:15]  * shadeslayer hugs kubotu
[07:15] <shadeslayer> ciao
[07:16] <jussi> KDE review, by someone who has used gnome, since gnomes was in daipers. (and its a pretty nice review). http://www.siltala.net/2011/06/09/the-grand-review-pt1/
[07:16] <jussi> (and he did it because I made him.... bwahahahahahaahahhahahahaahhahaha)
[07:26] <Tm_T> <3
[09:18] <steveire> JontheEchidna: The kdegraphics discussion wasn't really in scope for the platform 11 meeting, but we did discuss it a bit. There wasn't really a resolution though as none of us were kdegraphics people
=== hunger_ is now known as hunger
[09:41] <sheytan> hey yo!
[09:41] <sheytan> is PIM 4.6 present in the 4.6.4 update?
[12:05] <ScottK> sheytan: No.  It's separate.
[12:13] <ScottK> jussi: Nice review.
[12:15] <jussi> ScottK: yeah, I tend to agree with him about the add widgets thiong.
[12:18] <ScottK> Fortunately for me I rarely use it.
[12:34] <sheytan> ScottK do i need to uninstall the old pim first? Or will it upgrade automatically?
[12:35] <ScottK> sheytan: We don't have it packaged in a regular repository yet.  If you have a repository with it enabled, it should upgrade automatically, but be aware that for your data it's a one way migration, so you probably want to back it up first.
[12:36] <sheytan> ScottK i was waiting till the stable release of pim, so i don't have any data right now. Didin't used kontact from the installation of natty ;)
[12:36] <sheytan> And i think i'll wait till you put it into kubuntu regular ppa :)
[12:37] <ScottK> I see.  Well the pim 4.4 that shipped with Natty works fine with KDE 4.6.
[12:38] <ScottK> We won't ship pim 4.6 in Natty except in some experimental repo as it's far to invasive an upgrade.
[12:40]  * yofel got is kde svn acc. :D
=== rdieter is now known as rdieter_work
=== rdieter_laptop is now known as rdieter
[12:50] <sheytan> ScottK so i have to wait till 11.10?
[12:50] <sheytan> Well, i think i'll try an experimental repo then :D
[12:50] <ScottK> I'd just stick with 4.4 if I were you, but whatever you want.
[12:51] <yofel> at least wait until we have 4.6.0 packaged
[12:52] <yofel> don't think anyone did that yet
=== ximion1 is now known as ximion
[12:53] <ScottK> No.
=== ximion is now known as ximion1
[13:12] <sebas> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-release-464 << this is not true, can we hold back announcements until AFTER upstream releases, please?
[13:17] <yofel> sebas: that would be my fault, I assumed that was the case since http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-4.6.4.php was up
[13:17] <ScottK> sebas: Pulled.
[13:18] <sebas> ScottK: thanks :) 
[13:18] <yofel> ScottK: thanks
[13:18] <sebas> yofel: it's official when it's on the frontpage and the dot
[13:18] <yofel> k, sorry
[13:18] <sebas> I usually also tweet it as soon as it's out
[13:18] <sebas> np, we could resolve it :)
=== ximion1 is now known as ximion
[13:50] <apachelogger> sebas: didn't the announcements have an embargo statement at the very top?
[13:50] <sebas> apachelogger: used to, but I forgot to remove it more often than not, making it useless
[13:51] <apachelogger> yofel: you might want to try commiting a newline change or something to the www/sites/info stuff, to make sure you can
[13:51] <yofel> hm, good idea
[13:51] <apachelogger> sebas: ah, yeah, makes sense :)
[13:51] <yofel> sebas: well, lesson learned, won't happen next time
[13:51] <sebas> yofel: thanks =)
[13:52] <sebas> also don't worry too much about it
[14:13] <shadeslayer> OMG I'M FREE FROM EXAMS \o/
[14:14] <d_ed> shadeslayer: good -> get to KDE Telepahty and test \o/
[14:14] <shadeslayer> whats up for testing? :D
[14:15] <shadeslayer> i mean everything works as of now xD
[14:16]  * yofel cleanes the wiki for 4.7
[14:16] <ScottK> shadeslayer: AFAIK kdepim still needs merging.
[14:16] <yofel> I'll leave the split tars out though
[14:16] <ScottK> I think we should use the split ones that are available.
[14:16] <ScottK> Debian will go this way so we may as well get started.
[14:17] <shadeslayer> ScottK: yes, i removed my name from MoM incase anyone wanted to take it up, if no one has merged it yet, i can work on it
[14:17] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Great.
[14:18] <yofel> k
[14:18] <yofel> I'll leave the empty and useless tars out of the list though
[14:19] <ScottK> yofel: Sure.  The big challenge will to make sure we don't miss anything.
[14:19] <yofel> well, I've got all tars lying around here, so I'll use that list
[14:20] <shadeslayer> i shall also start making a blog post
[14:20] <jussi> shadeslayer: BLINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:20] <jussi> :D
[14:20] <shadeslayer> and blink
[14:20]  * shadeslayer adds everything to his ToDo
[14:21] <ScottK> fabo: I pointed markos at you with your Debian Qt hat on as I think he needs our (Kubuntu) thumb2 patch for armhf porting.  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/qt/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_22_thumb2_support.diff - Not sure how you'd integrate that in Debian.  It's ~easy in Ubuntu/Linaro since we only support v7+thumb2.
[14:21] <ScottK> yofel: I was thinking also of maybe stuff they forgot to make a tar for.
[14:22] <yofel> ah, I'll do a rough check, but I don't know every little component myself. If anything I can match it to the components in neon
[14:22] <fabo> ScottK: yes, I chatted with him yesterday night
[14:22] <fabo> ScottK: he's a co-worker ;)
[14:23] <ScottK> I'm hoping we get armhf in Ubuntu.
[14:23] <ScottK> Also it'd be nice to get KDE ported to armhf before Gnome ...
[14:23] <fabo> ScottK: it's in progress. I'm changing the way to apply patches by arch. it will be easier to apply this kind of patches
=== ximion1 is now known as ximion
[14:23] <ScottK> This should be all that stands between him and kde4libs built on armhf.
[14:23] <ScottK> Cool.
[14:24] <yofel> urgh, who wants to redo the dep-graph?
[14:24] <ScottK> yofel: I recommend you ask the person with the pile of tarballs laying around.
[14:24] <yofel> LOL
[14:25] <shadeslayer> heh
[14:25] <yofel> can we at least recompress oxygen-icons with xz? 350MB tar is insane
[14:26] <ScottK> fabo: Would you be able to help us with testing of Kubuntu arm ISOs?  We've a very limited set of people with hardware for that.
[14:26] <fabo> ScottK: sure. I have pandaboard only.
[14:27] <ScottK> fabo: Thanks.
[14:31] <ScottK> Is https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73314853/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.caret_5.6.4~dfsg.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz a GL/GLES issue?
[14:33] <ScottK> apachelogger: You should join #debian-qt-kde so we can't talk about you behind your back there.
[14:33] <apachelogger> I am not even sure why I wasn't in there *shrug*
[14:33] <apachelogger> I blame the quassel
[14:34] <ScottK> You should complain to the person that made us switch to it.
[14:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose: y u made us switch?
[14:36] <pascal_> Hello, is the newly released KDE PIM packaged? Kmail 2 etc
[14:38] <apachelogger> not yet I believe
[14:39] <droidslayer> Ugh
[14:40] <droidslayer> Kernel upgrades fscked up my system
[14:40] <apachelogger> droidslayer: don't ugh
[14:40] <apachelogger> droidslayer: so use an older kernelz?
[14:40] <droidslayer> "No init found"
[14:41] <droidslayer> apachelogger: for some reason i cant boot a older kernel
[14:41] <droidslayer> Same issue
[14:41] <apachelogger> so either you /sbin/init is kaputt or your initramfs
[14:41] <apachelogger> droidslayer: get a live sticky and chroot into the system
[14:42] <apachelogger> then dist-upgrade dpkg --configure -a or whatever that command was
[14:42] <apachelogger> if that does not help look for your initramfs in /boot and your init in /sbin/init
[14:42] <apachelogger> one of the two must be broken
[14:42] <droidslayer> Hmmm ... The only live stick i have is a gnome one
[14:42] <apachelogger> doesn't matter :P
[14:42] <droidslayer> Lets see if its amd64
[14:42] <droidslayer> Yeah
[14:42] <apachelogger> use the empire of terminal
=== AndChat- is now known as droidslayer_
[14:49] <droidslayer_> @_@ 
[14:50] <empathyslayer> bwahahaha
[14:50] <empathyslayer> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda5, ..... 
[14:53] <yofel> your system sure know how to give you excuses for not doing any work :P
[14:54] <empathyslayer> lol
[14:54] <yofel> done, have fun folks: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/Packaging
[14:54] <empathyslayer> idk what happened
[14:54] <empathyslayer> it booted fine
[14:54] <empathyslayer> and then i accidentally pulled the power cord, had too boot it again and it threw that error at me :/
[14:55] <yofel> now let's see if I can rework the dep-graph using the neon deps...
[14:57] <txwikinger> apachelogger: What was that yesterday about crashing on my coach?
[14:57] <yofel> this'll be a mess
=== matthiask is now known as ximion
[14:58] <empathyslayer> One or more block group descriptor checksums are invalid.  Fix<y>? 
[14:58] <empathyslayer> @_@
[14:59] <yofel> at least you don't get a kernel oops as I did with btrfs :P
[15:00] <empathyslayer> w00t
[15:00] <empathyslayer> it mounted now
[15:02] <apachelogger> txwikinger: a lack of attention leading to me associating the wrong person with your nick
[15:03]  * apachelogger needed a couch to crash on in berlin for the desktop summit
[15:04] <apachelogger> yofel: why will it be a mess?
[15:04] <apachelogger> empathyslayer: stop breaking your system :P
[15:04] <empathyslayer> apachelogger: hehe
[15:04] <empathyslayer> i haven
[15:04] <empathyslayer> i haven't broken it
[15:04] <apachelogger> who in their right mind pulls the power anyway
[15:04] <empathyslayer> apachelogger: i tripped over it
[15:04] <empathyslayer> ok bbiab
[15:05] <apachelogger> sebas: btw, do I need to do something, as my Lord Presidentship comes with being release coordinator for kdemm?
[15:05] <sebas> 4.6.4 is out now btw
[15:06] <sebas> apachelogger: don't think so, other than keeping an eye on r-t
[15:06] <apachelogger> ok
[15:06] <apachelogger> yofel: ^ now you can publish :P
[15:06] <yofel> yay :)
[15:09] <debfx> does anyone run oneiric and wants to test the network management widget?
[15:09] <shadeslayer> \o/
[15:09] <shadeslayer> debfx: no :P
[15:10] <debfx> ohh :(
[15:10] <shadeslayer> fs needed a fsck
[15:10] <debfx> shadeslayer: now is the time to upgrade
[15:10] <shadeslayer> and everything is fine
[15:11] <shadeslayer> debfx: isn't the plasmoid in comaptible with new n-m ?
[15:12] <debfx> shadeslayer: the one in oneiric isn't
[15:12] <yofel> the one in neon isn't either
[15:12] <shadeslayer> oh ...
[15:12] <debfx> I've packaged a snapshot of the nm09 branch
[15:12] <yofel> put it into ninjas at least, I'll test gladly
[15:17] <debfx> I'm not sure how to call the version. 0.9~svngit.nm09.20110610.0c83d81 seems a bit long ^^
[15:17] <yofel> why svn?
[15:17] <shadeslayer> heh
[15:18] <debfx> yofel: before the git migration it was in an svn repository and svn >> git
[15:19] <yofel> urgh, ok
[15:20] <yofel> argh, this is a dep-mess
[15:20] <debfx> maybe I should add a ~ somewhere to leave room for further version changes :D
[15:23] <yofel> first draft of the new dep-graph: http://i.imgur.com/mSckb.png
[15:23] <yofel> now I need to clean this up and re-check it
[15:24] <yofel> and add the missing stuff
[15:27] <debfx> what's the outcome of the great tarball debate?
[15:27] <yofel> from what I know: provide both split and bundled tars
[15:29] <apachelogger> yofel: who be working on KDEPIM?
[15:29] <yofel> dunno, we wanted shadeslayer to do it before he foobared his system
[15:30] <shadeslayer> me
[15:30] <shadeslayer> i'm working on it
[15:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: 4.4.11 tho
[15:30] <apachelogger> 4.6.0 I am talking about
[15:31] <apachelogger> oh, shoot, I should be leaving for train
[15:31]  * apachelogger starts throwing stuff in the suitcase
[15:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: First we need to do a 4.4.11 merge from Debian.  Then 4.6.0.
[15:32] <debfx> yofel: ok, and will more modules be split?
[15:33] <apachelogger> it is an organizational nightmare
[15:35] <ScottK> It'll be fun.
[15:36] <ScottK> Once we get used to it we'll grumble about the horrible old days with those monolithic tarballs that took forever to download/upload.
[15:36] <shadeslayer> hehe
[15:36]  * ScottK slaps shadeslayer to get back to work.
[15:36] <shadeslayer> ouch
[15:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: You're not properly supervising your minion.
[15:36] <shadeslayer> i'm already working
[15:37] <shadeslayer> ScottK: he's busy packing
[15:37] <ScottK> OK.
[15:37] <ScottK> What does an apachelogger need to pack?  swimming suit, toot brush, done.
[15:37] <ScottK> How long can that take?
[15:37] <ScottK> toot/tooth
[15:38] <yofel> debfx: the next git splits are already sheduled for post-4.7
[15:38] <yofel> kdeaccessibility and kdeutils IIRC
[15:59] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw .... at some point in the past, you said that the screen lock needs special perms ...  how do i find out what perms does it need? the only way i could find to trigger it was via DBus
[16:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm appointing you Kubuntu burndown chart overlord.
=== tazz_ is now known as tazz
[16:12] <shadeslayer> should i use libboost-dev or libboost1.42-dev ?
[16:12] <shadeslayer> both are in main
[16:15] <ScottK> shadeslayer: For oneiric use 1.46
[16:15] <shadeslayer> okay
[16:16] <shadeslayer> ScottK: any reason why we aren't using libboost-dev?
[16:17] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Yes.  For stuff that has other Ubuntu changes it's easier to track what needs rebuilding for the newer boost and it's my view one doesn't want to change boost versions by accident.
[16:17] <ScottK> If there are no other changes, then I think using the unversioned one is a good idea.
[16:17] <shadeslayer> ah
[16:17] <shadeslayer> but there *might* be changes
[16:18] <shadeslayer> so it's a good idea to keep the versioned one
[16:18] <ScottK> If you get to the end of your merge and that's it, we should just sync.
[16:18] <shadeslayer> nah, loads of other changes 
[16:19] <ScottK> OK
[16:19] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Also keep in mind if some of these changes should go back to Debian.
[16:20] <shadeslayer> well ... we do have kdepim-dev which is added as a extra package
[16:21] <LaserJock> ScottK: I survived Kansas City
[16:21] <ScottK> LaserJock: Welcome back.
[16:21] <LaserJock> waiting in Salt Lake currently on the way back to MT
[16:21] <ScottK> How did you find it?
[16:21] <LaserJock> a bit hot
[16:21] <LaserJock> but green and nice
[16:22] <LaserJock> I think I'll be flying back in a couple weeks
[16:22] <ScottK> Great.
[16:22] <LaserJock> I got myself another interview, this time in Olathe
[16:22] <ScottK> That's even closer to where my dad lives.
[16:23] <LaserJock> there sure are a lot of interstates in Kansas City
[16:23] <LaserJock> I was glad I brought my GPS
[16:23] <ScottK> Heh.
[16:23] <ScottK> For a city of its size traffic is not too bad.
[16:23] <LaserJock> but traffic wasn't bad when I went from Olathe to the airport at 5pm
[16:24] <LaserJock> being  used to (a little bit anyway) to Boston traffic, it's not too bad at all
[16:27] <debfx> shadeslayer: kopete-cryptography build-depends on kdepim-dev but it's not in Debian
[16:27] <debfx> that's probably the reason we have it
[16:28] <yofel> so, here's how the dep-graph looks now: http://i.imgur.com/wftgO.png
[16:29] <yofel> (using neon as reference)
[16:32] <shadeslayer> heh
[16:32] <shadeslayer> yofel:  i read that as wtfgo
[16:32] <shadeslayer> debfx: okay
[16:32] <yofel> ^^
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> the dep graph sorta exploded sideways
[16:38] <yofel> well, most packages are really fine with just kdelibs, so they all end up on the same level
[16:39] <debfx> if we remove the packages we don't really care about it gets much smaller :P
[16:40] <yofel> we could remove anything that depends on meta-kde and just say that what's not on the list depends on that
[16:41] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: suid bit, see kubuntu pkgs
[16:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: meh.
[16:42] <debfx> most of them probably don't even need the latest kdelibs version
[16:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: is there a binary for locking the screen?
[16:42] <shadeslayer> klockscreen or sth
[16:43] <yofel> true
[16:43] <JontheEchidna> didrocks: a blog about the technical stuff behind our Qt bug report has made planet KDE btw: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/06/10/type-punning-and-strict-aliasing/
[16:43] <JontheEchidna> interesting read
[16:45] <didrocks> JontheEchidna: already read, but thanks :)
[16:46] <didrocks> yeah, was an interesting read, will take more care in my own code now about it (especially in unions)
[17:22] <debfx> I've uploaded the nm widget to the experimental ppa
[17:22] <debfx> yofel, JontheEchidna: ^ in case you want to test
[17:26] <JontheEchidna> cool, will test
[17:27] <debfx> editing system connections froze plasma-desktop in my vm so it is probably not that stable yet
[17:31] <pawel_121> hi, is there any ppa which contains KDE PIM 4.6.4?
[17:32] <pawel_121> I have Kubuntu backports and backports-ppa enabled, but PIM is still old - 4.4
[17:33] <shadeslayer> pawel_121: KDE PIM 4.6 is in experimental PPA
[17:34] <shadeslayer> and there hasn't been a release of KDE PIM 4.6.4
[17:34] <pawel_121> shadeslayer: sorry for mistake
[17:36] <pawel_121> shadeslayer: will KDE PIM 4.6 go to non experimental PPA?
[17:36] <shadeslayer> pawel_121: yes, as soon as i finish merging KDE PIM 4.4.11 from debian, we will work on getting KDE PIM 4.6 into oneiric
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> debfx: works nicely
[17:36] <shadeslayer> and then into natty backports ppa maybe
[17:36] <JontheEchidna> WEP/hex key
[17:37] <shadeslayer> ok bbiab
[17:37] <debfx> WEP? :O
[17:37] <pawel_121> shadeslayer:good to hear, thanks for your help :)
[17:37]  * yofel will test in a minute (WPA AES :P)
[17:38] <JontheEchidna> yeah, we live out in the sticks, and none of our neighbors are technically competent enough to crack WEP :P
[17:39] <yofel> I tried to get my cousing to switch to WPA, until I noticed 3 neighbours had no encryption at all, then I stopped bothering
[17:39] <yofel> *cousin
[17:40] <JontheEchidna> yofel: be warned, NM will stop/restart during the upgrade
[17:40] <yofel> It's already stopped here on my netbook, I'll just reboot
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> that's what I did
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> just to give kded/plasma a chance to restart
[17:43] <debfx> JontheEchidna: did it migrate the old network connections?
[17:43] <JontheEchidna> nope
[17:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: I needed to buy some rum
[17:44] <apachelogger> travelling without rum is no good
[17:49]  * apachelogger leaves again as a couple of tunnels are coming up
[17:51] <yofel> debfx: works fine here
[17:52] <debfx> ok, thanks for testing
[17:52] <debfx> I'll upload it to the archive
[18:11] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[18:11] <yofel> hey _Groo_
[18:12] <_Groo_> yofel: hey hey :)
[18:25] <yofel> folks: why do we append "Kubuntu" to konquerors user agent string? (Asking because the patch needs a rewrite)
[18:26] <ScottK> yofel: I think we should drop it.
[18:26] <ScottK> (it's not our default browser anymore)
[18:27] <yofel> right, and we don't do that for rekonq
[18:27] <yofel> lp #332339
[18:27] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 332339 in kde4libs (Ubuntu) "konqueror user agent string does not include distro ID" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/332339
[18:28] <ScottK> It was our default then.
[18:29] <yofel> yeah, and I don't see the distro in the firefox 5 user agent string in oneiric either
[18:29] <yofel> so probably no point in keeping it
[18:49] <shadeslayer> so apachelogger branded us the 'Neon' people in his mail 
[18:49] <yofel> yeah
[18:49] <yofel> grr... it's annoying to have patch failing due to fuzz...
[18:49]  * shadeslayer turns off the lights to check if he starts glowing
[18:52] <shadeslayer> nope, nothing here
[18:52] <shadeslayer> yofel: uhm .. quilt push -fa ?
[18:52] <shadeslayer> and then refresh?
[18:53] <yofel> still annoying :P
[18:53] <yofel> because dpkg-source leave .rej files behind -.-
[18:53] <yofel> *leaves
[18:53] <shadeslayer> ah ^^
[18:53] <shadeslayer> thats really sad
[18:54] <shadeslayer> btw kdepim 4.4.11 will conflict with l10n pacakges
[18:54] <shadeslayer> since it has its own l10n stuff now
[18:54] <yofel> great...
[18:55] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Since we know we won't stick with it, I'd strip those out (don't install in the binary)
[18:55] <shadeslayer> hmm
[18:56] <yofel> it's at least easier than rewriting our l10n scripts just for the PPA
[18:56] <shadeslayer> ^^ yep
[18:56]  * shadeslayer goes back to work
[19:11] <yofel> we need a new shared-desktop-ontologies package
[19:11] <ScottK> Don't think we do.
[19:11] <ScottK> I think the new kdelibs was fixed to work with 0.6 also.
[19:12] <ScottK> (IIRC)
[19:12] <shadeslayer> i don't think the fix was released yet
[19:12] <ScottK> Then I think we need to wait for it (or patch our kde4libs).
[19:12] <yofel> yeah, the 4.6.80 tar wants 0.6.50, I'll add a patch
[19:12] <ScottK> The fix is a BIC change and we don't want that.
[20:28] <Riddell> evening all, how's the 4.7 tars fun?
[20:30] <yofel> check packaging page and dep-graph, fun
[20:30] <yofel> though we only started today
[20:31] <Tm_T> hi all
[20:32] <Tm_T> Riddell: hey, who is the person to poke to when shipit isn't answering? been trying to figure out this some time now
[20:32] <Riddell> Tm_T: how do you mean?  there is no shipit now
[20:33] <yofel_> meh
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
[20:34] <Tm_T> Riddell: isn't shipit email addresses still responding to loco packs?
[20:34] <yofel> shadeslayer, ScottK: as a matter of fact neon kdelibs still says requires s-d-o 0.6.50, so that doesn't seem fixed
[20:34] <Tm_T> that's where I was directed to
[20:34] <Riddell> Tm_T: I've no idea I'm afraid
[20:34] <Tm_T> Riddell: ah, thanks, I'll keep looking (:
[20:34] <shadeslayer> yofel: 0.o
[20:34] <shadeslayer> lemme ask
[20:34] <ScottK> yofel: OK.  Maybe I misremember the resolution.
[20:34] <yofel> todays buildlog https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73290024/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-amd64.project-neon-kdelibs_2%2Bgit20110610%2Br91902-57~oneiric1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[20:34] <Riddell> Tm_T: I think the person incharge of CDs is cezzaine.haigh@canonical
[20:35] <ScottK> yofel: Perhaps steveire remembers better than me.
[20:35] <yofel> afaik 0.7 was release though, since we have 0.7.50 in neon
[20:35] <Tm_T> Riddell: thank you very much
[20:35] <yofel> *released
[20:35]  * yofel is loosing chars today o.O
[20:36] <shadeslayer> yofel: upstream says 0.7 is the min requirement
[20:36] <yofel> ScottK, shadeslayer: I get the feeling you're talking about kdepim
[20:36] <yofel> that needed a fix IIRC
[20:36] <shadeslayer> nope, just talked to vHanda
[20:37] <shadeslayer> he's the one who fixed everything
[20:37] <yofel> ah k
[20:37]  * yofel goes asking debian folks if someone started with that
[20:38] <shadeslayer> they don't have a release of a newer SDO btw
[20:38] <shadeslayer> so we might need a git snapshot
[20:38] <vHanda> shadeslayer: yea, tell me
[20:39] <shadeslayer> vHanda: basically we're discussing how to build kdelibs with sdo 0.6 but since you now say 0.7 is the min requirement
[20:39] <shadeslayer> yofel: ^^
[20:39] <yofel> right
[20:40] <yofel> shadeslayer: http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/oscaf/ shows 0.7
[20:40] <shadeslayer> ah ... trueg must have released a new version then ^^
[20:40] <vHanda> In 4.7, we are inforcing the ontologies. Imagine going from a dynamically typed language to statically typed - That's what we've done internally in Nepomuk
[20:40]  * yofel goes packaging
[20:41] <vHanda> lot of stuff has gotten screwed up because of it.
[20:41] <yofel> hehe
[20:41] <shadeslayer> ^_^
[20:51] <yofel> meh, we need to bump the breaks/replaces against natty too...
[20:53] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: around?
[20:56] <bambee> evening
[20:56] <yofel> hi bambee
[20:56] <bambee> hi :)
[20:58] <shadeslayer> yofel: btw we need special perms for the lock screen thing in neon
[20:58] <shadeslayer> s/thing/issue
[20:58] <yofel> hurray (I'll leave that to you :P)
[20:59] <shadeslayer> yeah :P
[20:59] <shadeslayer> i'll talk to apachelogger since he knows what to do
[20:59] <shadeslayer> i tried finding the name of the binary that locks the screen and failed misreably
[21:07] <apachelogger> it happens
[21:08] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: /opt/project-neon/lib/kde4/libexec/kcheckpass :P
[21:08] <shadeslayer> thanks to thiago 
[21:09] <shadeslayer> i kept searching for lock/kdesktop_lock so on and so forth
=== rdieter_work is now known as rdieter
[21:32]  * sheytan is making some ideas come to life to make apachelogger happier :D
[21:34] <yofel> make a lightdm theme with a bottle of rum in it :P
[21:36] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[21:36] <_Groo_> stupid question.. is there any support for appinidicators in kde systray being worked out?
[21:39] <debfx> _Groo_: appindicators aka statusnotifieritems have work in kde even before unity existed
[21:42] <_Groo_> debfx: ok, how do i make them work then? for ex i get a new app indicator for ex cpu info, (i know there are plasmoids, its just an example)... i just run it, and it pops up in systray?
[21:42] <_Groo_> or is there a trick to it?
[21:44] <JontheEchidna> _Groo_: yes
[21:45] <_Groo_> JontheEchidna: huu... yes? can you elaborate? :D
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> just run the indicator and it'll show up
[21:46] <_Groo_> nice
[21:46] <_Groo_> to autostart it, i just add kde in the 
[21:46] <_Groo_> .desktop file?
[21:46] <JontheEchidna> dunno
[21:47] <_Groo_> i better add a symlink to .kde/Autostart, should do the trick
[21:47] <_Groo_> tks for the answer :)
[21:57] <shadeslayer> hmm
[21:57] <yofel> are we going to put kdepim 4.6.0 for natty somewhere? There are people that keep asking for it
[21:57] <shadeslayer> anyone around to discuss wireless/wired networks in the installer?
[21:58] <shadeslayer> yofel: backports i'd say
[21:58] <shadeslayer> yofel: after we package it for oneiric
[21:58] <shadeslayer> tell them to use neon xD
[21:58] <yofel> shadeslayer: well, for oneiric we'll get 4.6.80, as it's shipped together there again
[21:58] <shadeslayer> what
[21:59] <shadeslayer> yofel: there's a KDE PIM 4.6.80 ? 
[21:59] <yofel> there are kdepim 4.6.80 tars, yes. No idea what's in there though
[21:59] <shadeslayer> @_@
[21:59] <yofel> probably 4.6.0
[22:02] <yofel> The confusing part is that Kdepim 4.6 was announce together (and seems as part of) 4.6.4. So users are confused why we're not shipping it together with 4.6.4
[22:04] <yofel> *announced
[22:04]  * yofel is still loosing chars somewhere o.O
[22:06] <shadeslayer> fooey
[22:06] <yofel> shadeslayer: see http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-4.6.4.php
[22:07] <shadeslayer> sawn
[22:09] <yofel> I agree with backports in any case
[22:10] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: around?
[22:12] <shadeslayer> ah well, time to write to the ML then
[22:13] <shadeslayer> oh btw is anyone on oneiric and with the new  n-m plasmoid?
[22:13] <yofel> me
[22:13] <yofel> works fine
[22:13] <shadeslayer> yofel: dude, can you pastebin the output of : qdbus org.kde.networkmanagement /org/kde/networkmanagement 
[22:14] <yofel> in a minute, need to get out of neon first
[22:14] <shadeslayer> sure
[22:16] <yofel> shadeslayer: http://paste.kde.org/80575
[22:17] <shadeslayer> kewl
[22:17] <shadeslayer> if i understand this right
[22:17] <shadeslayer> adding this feature shouldn't take more than 3-4 hours using the dbus interface
[22:17] <shadeslayer> i'd like to design all of it in QML :P
[22:18] <shadeslayer> but idk how much of it i can add in python etc
[22:27] <_Groo_> guys whos the maintainer of the libindicator for kde?
[22:27] <shadeslayer> sheytan: can you mockup the wifi setup in ubiquity page?
[22:28] <sheytan> shadeslayer: sure, but tomorrow.  Want to finish the lightdm today ;)
[22:28] <shadeslayer> sheytan: yeah no hurries :)
[22:28] <_Groo_> although libindicator kinda works, its missing some important stuff
[22:28] <_Groo_> like live menu updates and graphic displays
[22:28] <apachelogger> live menu updates?
[22:28] <apachelogger> graphic displays?
[22:28] <apachelogger> what?
[22:29] <shadeslayer> oh hey apachelogger
[22:29] <_Groo_> apachelogger: yeah, when you load a indicator in kde, for ex syspeek or multi-load, in gnome they update the menu when you click on them... in kde its static.. only the first load (when it starts) gets displayed
[22:29] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i think going with dbus methods is better
[22:30] <shadeslayer> ( for WiFi Setup in the Ubiquity Installer  )
[22:30] <_Groo_> also for multi-load it was suposed to show some neat graphics.. in kde, only a blank icon is shown
[22:30] <_Groo_> same for indicator-sensors
[22:30] <apachelogger> no idea what either of them are, nor what the heck _Groo_ is talking about
[22:30] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: instead of?
[22:30] <yofel> apachelogger: appindicators
[22:30] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: instead of kparts
[22:30] <apachelogger> what is an appindicator?
[22:31] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: kparts? wtf?
[22:31] <yofel> ubuntus implementation of statusnotifiers
[22:31] <_Groo_> apachelogger: that stupid "new" mini apps
[22:31] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: thats what we discussed remember?
[22:31] <apachelogger> ah
[22:31] <apachelogger> well
[22:31] <apachelogger> statusnotifier spec permits all that mumbo jumbo
[22:31] <shadeslayer> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-o/meeting/desktop-o-kubuntu-installer/ <<
[22:31] <apachelogger> if the ubuntu impl is broken, then that is hardly our fault :P
[22:32] <_Groo_> apachelogger:  no, it works in ubuntu, its the kde part thats missing
[22:32] <_Groo_> apachelogger: aparently when the kde part was implemented, they didnt include that stuff.. maybe the spec wasnt ready, dont know
[22:32] <_Groo_> apachelogger: what i was asking is who is the maintainer
[22:32] <_Groo_> apachelogger: so i can talk with him about this stuff
[22:32] <yofel> the kde devs I would say
[22:33] <apachelogger> yes
[22:33] <apachelogger> well
[22:33] <apachelogger> plamsa devs in particular
[22:33] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that does not even make no sense at all
[22:33] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: using kparts?
[22:33] <_Groo_> well aseigo hates my guts... my only luck is if he forgotten about me :D (most likely)
[22:33] <shadeslayer> yes, i'd rather use the dbus methods
[22:33] <shadeslayer> that allows for more flexibility 
[22:34] <apachelogger> how does it allow more flexibility?
[22:34] <apachelogger> IMHO all it does is replicate code that is already there in knm
[22:34] <_Groo_> whats the plasma dev channel? only plasma?
[22:34] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: accessing the knm dbus methods
[22:34] <shadeslayer> not the n-m dbus methods
[22:35] <apachelogger> and how is that not replicating code?
[22:36] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i don't think the plasma kpart of knm will look good inside ubiquity
[22:36] <apachelogger> what kpart?
[22:36] <shadeslayer> plasma-networkmanagement kpart?
[22:37] <shadeslayer> isn't that what the spec says?
[22:37] <apachelogger> those notes are shoot
[22:37]  * apachelogger gets the recording
[22:37] <shadeslayer> heh
[22:39] <shadeslayer> hmm .. kdepim ~done
[22:39] <apachelogger> pictures or it doesnt happen
[22:39] <apachelogger> or didnt
[22:39] <apachelogger> something
[22:39] <apachelogger> darn you listening and writing!
[22:40] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: really? is kdepim in experimental?
[22:40] <shadeslayer> 4.4.11 i mean
[22:40] <shadeslayer> :P
[22:40] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: oh
[22:40] <_Groo_> bummer
[22:40] <yofel> now do 4.6.0 too since you're already at it :P
[22:41] <apachelogger> nah
[22:41] <apachelogger> first we needs sync
[22:41] <shadeslayer> @_@
[22:41] <apachelogger> then we need 4.6.0
[22:41] <shadeslayer> sync?
[22:41] <apachelogger> also shadeslayer should first finish .11 proper
[22:41] <shadeslayer> yes doing that right now
[22:41] <yofel> well, agreed
[22:41] <_Groo_> ehehehe
[22:41] <apachelogger> s/sync/merge or sync or smth or nothing/g
[22:41] <kubotu> apachelogger: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[22:41] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[22:41] <apachelogger> bstrd
[22:41] <_Groo_> being a apachelogger minion is hard
[22:42] <shadeslayer> btw i didn't merge debian's install files since they are all sorts of wonky now
[22:42] <_Groo_> im waiting for the debian dudes to release something for calligra so i can get my hands on it
[22:42] <yofel> apachelogger: take _Groo_ as minion
[22:42] <shadeslayer> with l10n and what not in them
[22:42] <_Groo_> and maybe help for second beta or release
[22:42] <shadeslayer> i just copied ours over
[22:42] <yofel> _Groo_: you're allowed to think that, not say it :P
[22:42] <_Groo_> yofel: i already am an unoficial minion
[22:42] <_Groo_> yofel: he will beat me whatever i say :P
[22:42] <yofel> ^^
[22:43] <apachelogger> talking about calligra
[22:43] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: where be my calligra
[22:43] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: in ppa:neon ?
[22:43] <apachelogger> _Groo_: debian doods have stuff, talk to shadeslayer
[22:43] <yofel> hm, calligra...
[22:43] <apachelogger> he is leaking information again
[22:43] <shadeslayer> ah
[22:43] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: stop leaking information
[22:43] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes, neon
[22:43] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: you mean in the official repos?
[22:43] <apachelogger> I mean both
[22:44] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: see the kubuntu-devel ML
[22:44] <apachelogger> a) what is the statusss of neon
[22:44] <apachelogger> b) tell _Groo_ how to get calligra for archives going with debian changes
[22:44] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: everything builds with ~all deps satisifed
[22:44] <shadeslayer> *satisfied
[22:44] <shadeslayer> i need a flipping new laptop
[22:44] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: dont buy a HP
[22:44] <shadeslayer> and i won't buy a dell either
[22:44] <apachelogger> if the mmc freescale shipped with the quickstart board was any slower I could pull a rodrigo every time I move a new image over
[22:45] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[22:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: zareason
[22:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: if neonz is woking: blog a step by step on how to get it
[22:45] <_Groo_> apachelogger: lol what is to pull a rodrigo, what did he do?
[22:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: boud already took care of that
[22:45] <apachelogger> kubotu: rodrigo
[22:45] <kubotu> oh, someone be pulling a rodrigo, recharge the batteries, good idea
[22:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: swell
[22:45] <shadeslayer> altho
[22:45] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: so you have calligra for oniric built in some forsaken ppa?
[22:46] <shadeslayer> we fixed unlocking in neon today
[22:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: where though?
[22:46] <yofel> _Groo_: forsaken???
[22:46]  * yofel slaps _Groo_ with a tux statue
[22:46] <shadeslayer> :O
[22:46] <_Groo_> yofel: ouch!! what did i do?
[22:46] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: you get no neonz
[22:46] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://krita.org/component/content/article/10-news/85-krita-artist-session-recording-part-i-animtims-turn
[22:46] <yofel> _Groo_: don't call neon that!
[22:46]  * _Groo_ always gets slapped when in kubuntu-devel!
[22:46] <yofel> hahahah
[22:47] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: insufficient
[22:47] <sheytan> shadeslayer do you know where the kubuntu logo with the kde logo backgroud icon in the system is?
[22:47] <shadeslayer> sheytan: dunno
[22:47] <sheytan> cann't find it under /usr/share/icons ;/
[22:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what else do we write? :P
[22:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i'll work on 2-3 blog posts tomorrow
[22:47] <apachelogger> wooh, awesome, cool, add pictures
[22:47] <apachelogger> etc. etc. etc.
[22:47] <shadeslayer> haha
[22:47] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: i DID see calligra in neon, but is there any backport going for natty?
[22:47] <apachelogger> also more calligra
[22:47] <apachelogger> less krita
[22:47] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: it's built for natty as well
[22:47] <yofel> shadeslayer: didn't you still need to get your *first* post out? :P
[22:48] <_Groo_> shadeslayer: oO where?
[22:48]  * _Groo_ drools
[22:48] <shadeslayer> _Groo_: ppa:neon
[22:48] <apachelogger> darn it
[22:48] <shadeslayer> oh crap
[22:48] <yofel> _Groo_: neon is built for natty and oneiric
[22:48] <shadeslayer> i gave _Groo_ neonz
[22:48] <apachelogger> we should run audio transcript software on uds recordings
[22:48] <_Groo_> yofel: duh, yeah
[22:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: stop calling us neon people :P
[22:48] <apachelogger> this is epic waste of time
[22:48] <_Groo_> yofel: but that means ill have to install all chebang?
[22:48] <yofel> _Groo_: see that blog post
[22:48] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: also, lightdm won't work because we use KDM + X Session entry
[22:48] <_Groo_> yofel: i want to backport calligra for 4.6.x
[22:48] <shadeslayer> unless
[22:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: so I think what was described as kpart is in fact any technology permitting the inclusion of the existing plasmoid in the installer
[22:48] <shadeslayer> you manually start it
[22:48] <apachelogger> of which kpart would probably be easiest, though utter shit
[22:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i still disagree that adding the plasmoid will be of any use
[22:49] <_Groo_> yofel: what blog post? the one about krita?
[22:49] <apachelogger> the more sane option would be to have a plasma containment (or the like) in the installer
[22:49] <yofel> _Groo_: bzr co lp:~neon/calligra/master
[22:49] <yofel> have fun building it
[22:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it would look utter shit in its current form
[22:49] <apachelogger> or, which is another option, have a statusnotifier in the installer
[22:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: or QML
[22:49] <apachelogger> i.e. use networkm-manager-kde
[22:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Python_Harness_for_QML << found this
[22:49] <yofel> _Groo_: we simply don't make archive packages
[22:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: why would it look like utter shit?
[22:49] <_Groo_> ah i see, get neon base and then calligra
[22:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: because its not meant to be used in a installer
[22:50] <shadeslayer> one sec
[22:50] <_Groo_> ok that would be for lazy ppl
[22:50] <apachelogger> it is an icon with a popup menu?
[22:50] <_Groo_> im just gonna get the calligra source from the ppa and beat im to submission for natty :)
[22:50] <apachelogger> how can that be looking like shit any more than any other approach?
[22:50]  * sheytan is loving nepomuk searching
[22:51] <_Groo_> sheytan: really? you are the first
[22:51] <sheytan> _Groo why?
[22:51] <_Groo_> sheytan: i always disable nepomuk filesearch... it starts every login and brings my machine I/O to his knees
[22:52] <yofel> well, it's usable once it did the initial scan
[22:52] <sheytan> _Groo_ nothing happens here ;)
[22:53] <yofel> then you don't have enough files lying around
[22:53] <_Groo_> yofel: here it always starts again, even if it did complete on every logon
[22:53] <yofel> it's nepomukfilewatch that has an insane hunger for disk I/O
[22:53] <_Groo_> yofel: its a nightmare
[22:53] <_Groo_> yofel: thats the one
[22:53] <_Groo_> thats the one i disable each time
[22:53] <apachelogger> report a bugz
[22:53] <yofel> _Groo_: I know, I remember it, but It's not that bad here currently
[22:53] <_Groo_> good idea also... i forgot to disable it for 4.6.4
[22:53] <_Groo_> apachelogger: its not a bug
[22:54] <apachelogger> <_Groo_> sheytan: i always disable nepomuk filesearch... it starts every login and brings my machine I/O to his knees
[22:54] <apachelogger> that
[22:54] <apachelogger> is
[22:54] <apachelogger> a
[22:54] <apachelogger> bug
[22:54] <_Groo_> apachelogger: its the way it works... inotify cant vbe used, so he scorges all the dirs for changes each time
[22:54] <apachelogger> and that justifies being ungraceful about it?
[22:54] <_Groo_> apachelogger: if they fixed it great
[22:55] <apachelogger> I do not think so
[22:55] <_Groo_> im not ungraceful
[22:55] <apachelogger> the watcher is
[22:55] <_Groo_> im one of the first human beings who actually seen the potential of nepomuk
[22:55] <_Groo_> after i learned what the hell it was anyway
[22:55] <_Groo_> trueg is insane btw
[22:56] <sheytan> apachelogger are you ready? :D
[22:56] <_Groo_> a quick look at the semantics of that darn SQL diablo stuff and it makes me wanna run screaming
[22:58] <apachelogger> sheytan: hold on
[22:58] <apachelogger> I need to get a tissue to clean up afterwards
[22:59] <sheytan> oh, right. Tell me when you're done ;d
[23:00] <apachelogger> sheytan: ready
[23:01] <sheytan> apachelogger ok, give me few secons ;0
[23:01] <sheytan> :)
[23:01] <_Groo_> yofel: the /debian stuff is inside project-neon-calligra_2+git20110610+r72328-8~oneiric1.tar.xz (88.0 MiB) ?
[23:01] <yofel> _Groo_: if you need debian get it from lp:~neon/project-neon/calligra-ubuntu
[23:01] <yofel> less to download
[23:02] <sheytan> apachelogger well, one question still: can i make 2 pages of this theme? I mean like first only with user list and 2nd with login window,  password field etc?
[23:02] <sheytan> or must it be all on one page
[23:02] <_Groo_> yofel: can you pass a http url? im behind a proxy :P
[23:02] <apachelogger> sheytan: QML generally works in states, so it'd be the same page but in login-state
[23:02] <apachelogger> so yes
[23:02] <apachelogger> technically possible
[23:03] <sheytan> nice, thank you! :D
[23:03] <apachelogger> whether david is thinking of that I do not know though
[23:03] <_Groo_> yofel: nvm, found it
[23:03] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/80611/
[23:03] <yofel> k
[23:03] <shadeslayer> i want it to look something like that
[23:03] <shadeslayer> sheytan: ^^
[23:04] <_Groo_> yofel: oh great theres no way to download the source as a file :P
[23:04] <_Groo_> yofel: can you ship it to poor old me? paulo.miguel.dias at gmail.com
[23:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: which is why imo the plasmoid is complete crapx0r for this implementation
[23:04] <sheytan> shadeslayer: nice mockup! You really have talend for that. Will I be that good in the future? You should know the answer :D
[23:04] <yofel> haha, sure
[23:04] <apachelogger> sheytan: I hope you now realize that you want to replicate existing code?
[23:04] <shadeslayer> sheytan: what xD
[23:04] <apachelogger> cause that looks pretty much like the plasmoid
[23:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it does not look anything like the plasmoid
[23:05] <shadeslayer> sheytan: i think this is the first ever mockup i've done
[23:05] <apachelogger> right
[23:05] <apachelogger> it annoys the user with worthless details
[23:05] <sheytan> shadeslayer it's nice anyway :D
[23:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: like?
[23:05] <apachelogger> but other than that it is *exactly* the wifi info delegate of the plasmoid
[23:06] <shadeslayer> ah
[23:06] <apachelogger> sheytan: WPA WEP FKMH FKMR FLT OMG ACK OHG
[23:06] <apachelogger> 70% 32.3340404% 99.999% 83% 82% 84%
[23:06] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: if i can take out the wifi delegate of the plasmoid, then yes
[23:06] <shadeslayer> poor sheytan
[23:06] <shadeslayer> :P
[23:06] <apachelogger> sheytan: and the underlying code
[23:06] <apachelogger> ...
[23:06] <apachelogger> eh
[23:06] <shadeslayer> hahahaha
[23:06] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: 
[23:06] <yofel> _Groo_: sent
[23:06] <_Groo_> yofel: ok, so you wanna me to backport it natty?
[23:07] <sheytan> i'm not touching any code, sorry :D
[23:07] <apachelogger> sheytan: and you better come up with awesome now or I shall tabfail you all nite
[23:07] <_Groo_> so you can concentrate on more important things apachelogger make you do it?
[23:07] <sheytan> don't worry ;d
[23:07]  * _Groo_ is afraid to ask what tabfail is
[23:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: wifi strength is shown by the plasmoid too
[23:07] <apachelogger> so is security
[23:08] <apachelogger> there is a profound UX difference though
[23:08] <_Groo_> yofel: got it, gonna enjoy myself this weekend beating calligra up :D
[23:08] <yofel> _Groo_: your decision. I only care about the natty buidls for neon, which we already have ;)
[23:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://paste.kde.org/80617/
[23:09] <_Groo_> yofel: this package you just sent me, dont have that natty backport? 
[23:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: and lets say there are 2 networks with the same SSID but the keys are different
[23:10] <apachelogger> try moving the strength column to the left of the security and exchange the pointless WPA WEP OMG ZOMG KPK stuff with icons
[23:10] <apachelogger> oh dear, looks like the plasmoid :P
[23:10] <yofel> _Groo_: define "backport", our packages live only in the neon PPA, for natty and oneiric
[23:10] <shadeslayer> lol
[23:10] <_Groo_> yofel: ho.. you didnt separate calligra in several packages....
[23:10] <_Groo_> yofel: this gonna be a looooot of work :P
[23:11] <_Groo_> yofel: oh joy
[23:11] <yofel> _Groo_: I think you can take quite a bit from the koffice packaging
[23:11] <_Groo_> yofel: true
[23:11] <_Groo_> yofel: but there are several new ones... and they toss a lot of files around.. krita is a nightmare to keep up
[23:11] <_Groo_> yofel: anyway, good mental stretching :P
[23:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: if we can extract just this part : http://i.imgur.com/DZXYc.png : i feel it would be awesome
[23:11] <yofel> _Groo_: now you know why we don't split stuff in neon :P
[23:12] <_Groo_> yofel: yeah it doesnt make sense either, everything goes into /opt... so...
[23:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I do not get why you only want that part though
[23:12] <_Groo_> the sad thing is, im gonna have all this work and apachelogger still wont give me a cookie
[23:13] <yofel> make him give you a bottle of rum, he doesn't have cookies
[23:13] <apachelogger> that is my rum
[23:13] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: dude, the user clicks one of the networks and the same procedure is foloowed as of of the desktop app
[23:13] <yofel> ^^
[23:13] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: does not compute, what do you mean?
[23:13] <shadeslayer> s/of of the desktop app/in the desktop scenario
[23:13] <apachelogger> what desktop scenario?
[23:14] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: user clicks on network a dialog pops up
[23:14] <shadeslayer> asking for passkey etc
[23:14] <apachelogger> so?
[23:14] <apachelogger> I do not get what you are saying
[23:14] <shadeslayer> likewise xD
[23:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what do you propose?
[23:15] <apachelogger> sharing as much code UI and everything with the plasmoid
[23:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: even the "Interfaces" part?
[23:15] <apachelogger> well
[23:15] <apachelogger> yes
[23:15] <apachelogger> why not?
[23:15] <shadeslayer> why do we need that?
[23:16] <apachelogger> multiple wifi chips?
[23:16] <shadeslayer> so?
[23:16] <apachelogger> multiple wired chips?
[23:16] <apachelogger> VPN support?
[23:16] <apachelogger> multiple modems?
[23:16] <shadeslayer> you still get the entire wireless networks on the side
[23:16] <shadeslayer> ok modems and VPN's are a use case
[23:16] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no
[23:16] <apachelogger> if you have two chips
[23:17] <apachelogger> you get two interfaces
[23:17] <shadeslayer> yes
[23:17] <apachelogger> if you click on an interface you get the listing for that interface
[23:17] <shadeslayer> and the combined network list is displayed when you click on show more without choosing a interface
[23:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ^^ if you don't choose a interface it displays everything
[23:17] <apachelogger> so?
[23:18] <shadeslayer> so we don't need the interfaces panel for WiFi and Ethernet
[23:18] <apachelogger> wha?
[23:18] <apachelogger> if I want to connect with one specific chip??!!?!
[23:18] <apachelogger> mac restrictions
[23:18] <apachelogger> driver bug
[23:18] <apachelogger> better power savings
[23:18] <Xand3r> hey apachelogger whats up?
[23:18] <apachelogger> whatever
[23:18] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ah .. you are the supreme user
[23:18] <shadeslayer> i hate users
[23:18] <apachelogger> there are plenty of reasons why you want to use one specific interface to connect to one specific network
[23:19] <shadeslayer> yeah, i get it now :P
[23:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: mac restrictions are way too common, especially in corporate envrionments
[23:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah
[23:19] <apachelogger> Xand3r: yo yo
[23:19] <shadeslayer> never had to do that, so couldn't think of that use case
[23:20] <Xand3r> hey i want to program a litlle program wich only shows the pic its opend with
[23:20] <Xand3r> ohw can i do that
[23:20] <Xand3r> its such a long time
[23:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: so, in the end, we are using the plasmoid, inside a python app
[23:23] <shadeslayer> okay i'm sleeping, cya
[23:24] <Xand3r> apachelogger: still there?
[23:26]  * sheytan is uploading light dm mockup
[23:27] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes
[23:27] <apachelogger> Xand3r: yes
[23:27] <apachelogger> Xand3r: depends on what language you want to do that in
[23:28] <Xand3r> apachelogger: not chosen yet
[23:28] <apachelogger> perhaps you want to do that first :P
[23:28] <sheytan> apachelogger http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5793/choosek.png
[23:28] <apachelogger> but generally very simple either way
[23:28] <apachelogger> you read a qimage or qpixmap (the file)
[23:28] <apachelogger> and set it as pixmap of a qlable
[23:28] <apachelogger> *qlabel
[23:29] <apachelogger> the qlablel you use as the gui
[23:29] <apachelogger> that should be about it
[23:29] <Xand3r> hmm sounds nice
[23:29] <apachelogger> probably no more than 15 lines of code for the whole program
[23:30] <apachelogger> sheytan: I am blushing!
[23:30] <apachelogger> :D
[23:30] <apachelogger> me likes
[23:30] <yofel> meh, tons of files gone from kdelibs since katepart was removed...
[23:30] <apachelogger> looks a bit liek feodra though
[23:30] <Xand3r> sheytan: nice
[23:30] <apachelogger> sheytan: the date and time in the upper right corner seem a bit off
[23:30] <valorie> sheytan: cute!
[23:30] <sheytan> apachelogger the backgroud is free to change ;)
[23:30] <yofel> nice, keep the kde background though...
[23:31] <yofel> then ok :)
[23:31] <apachelogger> perhaps move the datetime around a bit
[23:31] <sheytan> valorie Xand3r thanks :)
[23:31] <sheytan> it's not all :D
[23:31] <apachelogger> feels a bit off up there
[23:31] <apachelogger> like it is about to fall down and join the rest of the letters to have an orgy or something
[23:32] <apachelogger> jussi: did you get your board yet?
[23:32] <Xand3r> sheytan: when can i use it?
[23:32] <sheytan> apachelogger do you think that letters are doing 'it'?
[23:32] <sheytan> interesting
[23:33] <sheytan> Xand3r when apachelogger turns it into qml and put to kubuntu oneric ;)
[23:33] <sheytan> apachelogger and  the rest: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7513/loginjj.png
[23:33]  * apachelogger notes that kubuntu will not diverge from a KDE branded desktop manager!
[23:34] <apachelogger> sheytan: so you click on a user and that appears?
[23:34] <sheytan> apachelogger whatever logo you put there, it doesn't change the layout or animations ;D
[23:34] <sheytan> apachelogger yes
[23:35] <apachelogger> ok, what do you do if you clicked on the wrong user?
[23:35] <sheytan> apachelogger we add a 'back' arrow to the login window :D
[23:35] <sheytan> i forgot that
[23:35] <apachelogger> hm
[23:35] <apachelogger> are you sure you want that?
[23:35] <sheytan> apachelogger yes
[23:35] <apachelogger> sheytan: how about making the background clickable
[23:36] <sheytan> apachelogger to 'go back' ?
[23:36] <apachelogger> if you click outside the login/shutdown box you get back to the user list screen
[23:36] <apachelogger> dunno if that would make sense on a desktop system, but on a mobile one I would do it that way
[23:36] <sheytan> apachelogger  that will be confusing
[23:36] <apachelogger> then again on a mobile system you do not need a stupid DM ^^
[23:36] <sheytan> a 'back' arrow would make more sense
[23:37] <sheytan> :D
[23:37] <apachelogger> sheytan: so, you'd have the whole scene move to the left on click
[23:37] <apachelogger> and on back you move the whole scene to the right again?
[23:37] <apachelogger> equally on login you move the whole scene to the left as well?
[23:37]  * apachelogger imagines that this could be rather slick ^^
[23:37] <apachelogger> or make people sea sick
[23:37] <apachelogger> whatever comes first
[23:39] <sheytan> apachelogger plymouth ends its work, login wallpaper appear, the user box slides animated from top, then the user avatars appear like a bubble, then the user names fades in with the buttons (reboot) on the bottom of the screen.
[23:39] <sheytan> Then you click on your user, stuff slides away again, and new slides with fade in animation.
[23:39] <sheytan> you type your password, hit enter and you're done
[23:39] <apachelogger> sheytan: where does it slide to though?
[23:39] <sheytan> apachelogger to its centered possition on the screen like on the mockup?
[23:40] <apachelogger> "stuff slides away again"
[23:40] <apachelogger> in what direction does it slide?
[23:40] <sheytan> apachelogger backward to the beggining. So if it was sliding from top, then it slides to the top back
[23:40] <apachelogger> I see
[23:41] <apachelogger> sounds awesome
[23:41] <sheytan> i know :D
[23:41] <sheytan> because 'şeytan' sounds awesome :D
[23:41]  * sheytan oh how i miss animations in plasma :(((
[23:43] <sheytan> fuck! I just brake the time... again.
[23:43] <sheytan> it's like after midnight
[23:44] <apachelogger> true
[23:44] <apachelogger> time for bed
[23:44] <apachelogger> kubotu: order bed for sheytan
[23:44]  * kubotu is placing a cot for sheytan in the corner of #kubuntu-devel.
[23:44] <apachelogger> kubotu: order bed
[23:44]  * kubotu is placing a cot for apachelogger in the corner of #kubuntu-devel.
[23:44] <apachelogger> nites
[23:44]  * yofel wonders where to find a description of libkdeclarative
[23:45] <sheytan> is  it comfortable enough?
[23:46] <_Groo_> seeya guildies
[23:46] <_Groo_> i mean.. seeya ppl
[23:46] <_Groo_> no more mmorpgs for me :P
[23:48] <JontheEchidna> "i do kdeclare"
[23:51] <sheytan> JontheEchidna: i have couples of ideas for muon and how to make it more user friendly. Think will make some mocks finally tomorrow... i mean today :D
[23:57] <yofel> I'll put up some short description for now, we can fix it later. All I know is that it has something to do with QML (and can't really find anything else right now)
[23:57] <yofel> problem is that it's in experimental/ :S
[23:57] <yofel> and libplasma links to it...