2007/01/02/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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[01:57] <panpan> bonjour et bonne annee !
[01:57] <tsmithe> et vous aussi!
[01:57] <panpan> merci
[01:57] <tsmithe> ca va bien?
[01:57] <panpan> oui et toi ?
[01:57] <tsmithe> super!
[01:58] <panpan> pourai tu m'aider car je suis debutan sous ubuntu et jai beaucou de mal 
[01:58] <tsmithe> pas en #ubuntu-devel, je crois
[01:58] <panpan> je sort tou juste de windows donc sa change :)
[01:58] <panpan> pardon ?
[01:58] <tsmithe> il faut parler anglais aussi, ici
[01:58] <tsmithe> ;)
[01:59] <panpan> a bon ? oulala
[01:59] <panpan> moi et l'angais
[01:59] <tsmithe> !fr
[01:59] <tsmithe> ...
[01:59] <tsmithe> allez en #ubuntu-fr ;)
[01:59] <panpan> ok merci :)
[01:59] <panpan> aurevoire
[01:59] <tsmithe> au voir
[01:59] <panpan> et bonne soir
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[05:22] <tyme-> Does anyone know what library is used for on screen notifications? ie: battery charged, time left etc
[05:23] <Amaranth> libnotify
[05:23] <Amaranth> notification-daemon
[05:23] <Amaranth> tyme-: ^
[05:23] <tyme-> <3
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[06:03] <tyme-> where is the dbus services located?
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[06:11] <somerville32> Does anyone want to take a look at my really awful python code? :)
[06:12] <PuMpErNiCkEl> What does it do?
[06:12] <somerville32> It is the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Fesity Changes Mail Spool Parser
[06:13] <somerville32> UWNFCMSP for sort <g>
[06:13] <somerville32> *short
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[06:13] <PuMpErNiCkEl> :o
[06:14] <somerville32> Yes, and code is even more gross :)
[06:14] <PuMpErNiCkEl> Hm... it sounds strangely interesting.
[06:15] <somerville32> Offering via DCC
[06:23] <tyme-> why not paste the code somewhere
[06:25] <somerville32> Interesting idea
[06:25] <tyme-> !halp .... -> checking for DBUS... no ; anyone have any idea why it's not finding DBUS? I have all the packages installed.. libdbus, dbus etcetc
[06:25] <tyme-> pastebin.com somerville32
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[06:26] <lifeless> or rafb.net/paste which is about 10x faster
[06:26] <somerville32> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/207/
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[06:28] <somerville32> It took about 20 minutes to code and test - it works so I guess I'm happy
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[06:28] <pitti> Good morning
[06:28] <somerville32> Morning Pitti
[06:28] <lifeless> hey pitti
[06:29] <pitti> hey guys, had a nice celebration?
[06:29] <somerville32> I stayed at home and coded :/
[06:29] <lifeless> I had a gastro-virus :(
[06:30] <tyme-> !halp .... -> checking for DBUS... no ; anyone have any idea why it's not finding DBUS? I have all the packages installed.. libdbus, dbus etcetc
[06:30] <lifeless> tyme-: are you doing development ?
[06:30] <somerville32> I bought some rootbeer, cream soda, and cheezies - that was my excitement of the day.
[06:33] <tyme-> yea
[06:40] <lifeless> tyme-: what is that message coming from ?
[06:40] <tyme-> lifeless:  from ./configure
[06:40] <lifeless> is this a new package, or an existing package you are rebuilding ?
[06:40] <tyme-> existing package. I have all the libdbus/dbus packages updated 
[06:42] <lifeless> wdo you have libdbus-1-dev ?
[06:43] <tyme-> yes
[06:43] <lifeless> configure should output a log file showing what it ran
[06:43] <lifeless> have a look at that
[06:45] <tyme-> sec..
[06:53] <tyme-> seems it cant find it because it's not in pkg-config search path
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[07:14] <somerville32> Is Feisty still dead?
[07:16] <lifeless> dead?
[07:18] <somerville32> Totally fubar?
[07:19] <pitti> somerville32: WFM...
=== pitti thought you refered to the relative upload silence over the holidays
[07:20] <somerville32> I was ambiguous, wasn't I.
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[07:28] <Amaranth> somerville32: apparently if you use SATA you are fine, PATA has problems for some people
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[11:02] <cjwatson> morning
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[11:02] <cjwatson> pitti: have you ever security-reviewed putty? I finished porting it to gtk2 yesterday at last, and have been thinking of proposing it for main ...
[11:03] <Fujitsu> :O
[11:03] <pitti> cjwatson: hello, and happy new year!
[11:03] <pitti> cjwatson: no, I never took a look at it
[11:03] <Fujitsu> GTK2 PuTTY! It might look sane now :)
[11:03] <pitti> cjwatson: I'd be particularly interested in whether it properly mlock()s passphrases and such
[11:08] <cjwatson> font selection is broken since putty is expecting to use server-side fonts but gtk2's font selector only offers client-side fonts; aside from that it seems to be working ok
[11:08] <cjwatson> Fujitsu: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/tmp/putty-gtk1.png versus http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cjwatson/tmp/putty-gtk2.png
[11:09] <cjwatson> pitti: no use of mlock() in the source ...
[11:09] <Fujitsu> Looks much better, cjwatson :)
[11:09] <cjwatson> pitti: openssh doesn't mlock passphrases either
[11:11] <cjwatson> it's an interesting question for an ssh implementation; you should clearly mlock keys as well as passphrases. What about session state?
[11:11] <cjwatson> one would hope it's not possible to derive the key from the session state, of course
[11:12] <doko> is the upload queue currently working?
[11:12] <cjwatson> doko: yes, you just hit a known fails-sometimes-for-no-reason case with gcc-3.3
[11:13] <cjwatson> doko: the current workaround is just to upload it again :(
[11:13] <cjwatson> http://librarian.launchpad.net/5576777/elasrd0hlwGdtKrSAudllG0sjjp.txt
[11:13] <doko> ok, trying again
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[11:14] <cjwatson> strange that it bit two successive uploads though
[11:15] <Fujitsu> cjwatson, it's been happening a /lot/ lately.
[11:15] <Fujitsu> A large percentage of uploads are dropped.
[11:15] <cjwatson> it seems to be a couple a day
[11:15] <crimsun> cjwatson, it hit four of mine in a row a couple days ago.
[11:16] <cjwatson> I'm not in a position to fix it, although I will raise it as a Soyuz priority
[11:17] <doko> cjwatson: can I watch the upload processing myself (if it fails or succeeds)? 
=== Fujitsu hopes we get bugmail back soon...
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[11:20] <cjwatson> doko: afraid not; I can watch it for you
[11:20] <doko> uploaded again
[11:20] <cjwatson> but of course if it succeeds you will be mailed
[11:21] <cjwatson> non-security uploads are processed every five minutes (*/5 * * * *); if you aren't getting mailed in that time plus usual mail delays, you can generally assume that there is some kind of problem
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[11:38] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: putty/pterm in main> shiny!
[11:38] <iwj> Hello again everyone.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> iwj: regarding the discussion about domU kernels for Xen we had in MTV, have you looked into pygrub in the xen source tree?
[11:39] <iwj> Yes, I did look at it a bit.
[11:39] <Mithrandir> ok, I didn't know if you were aware of it or not, but if you are, good. :-)
[11:39] <iwj> It uses an interface that our Xen didn't have at that point.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: are you fixing vim to be installable again or should I?  It fails in postinst when it tries to do some alternatives mangling
[11:43] <jdub> Mithrandir: any purpose for putty/pterm in main other than supportability?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> jdub: I'd like my terminal emulator to be security supported.
[11:44] <Mithrandir> and I believe cjwatson does too. :-)
[11:44] <Mithrandir> so no, no other reason
[11:44] <cjwatson> jdub: nicer interface to opening ssh sessions than I believe exists elsewhere
[11:45] <cjwatson> I remember the lack of such an interface came up way back in hoary or so, but putty wasn't suitable then due to gtk1-ness
[11:45] <jdub> cjwatson: oh, ported! nice.
[11:46] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: it's tricky and weirder than you might expect - there's a Debian bug about it
[11:46] <jdub> how is it with utf-8 and so on?
[11:46] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: repeat dpkg --configure -a a few times and it'll work
[11:46] <cjwatson> jdub: it's had support for ages
[11:46] <jdub> hrm, ucrrnetly built for 1.2 though
[11:46] <cjwatson> jdub: yes, I finished the port yesterday
[11:46] <jdub> rock on
[11:47] <cjwatson> it has its own Unicode layer, so doesn't need pango for that
[11:47] <jdub> using pango? oh
[11:47] <cjwatson> making it use pango would be very difficult; since it's a cross-platform application, it needs to have lots of that code itself anyway
[11:48] <jdub> might be helpful for text rendering tho
[11:48] <cjwatson> it already has that :)
[11:48] <cjwatson> it has to know how to do stuff like bidi and arabic shaping for other platforms anyway
[11:48] <jdub> thai? arabic? indian? ... ? :)
[11:49] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: uh, ok.
[11:49] <cjwatson> thai, arabic both work, not sure about indic
[11:49] <cjwatson> I think it's fine if you have the fonts
[11:49] <Mithrandir> jdub: having it not use pango is a feature, antialiased terminal fonts is a nightmare.
[11:50] <Keybuk> heh, I *like* anti-aliased terminal fonts
[11:50] <Mithrandir> but they look like somebody ran over them with a truck
[11:50] <jdub> Mithrandir: pango doesn't necessarily imply antialiased
[11:50] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: Debian bug #399024
[11:50] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 399024 in vim "Upgrade fails because of missing man page directory" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/399024
[11:51] <cjwatson> (subject is wrong)
[11:51] <cjwatson> (well, sort of)
[11:51] <Mithrandir> jdub: can you tell me what colour of stick I need to beat g-t with to make it give me proper fonts, then? :-)
[11:52] <cjwatson> I think it might be possible to make putty use pango optionally in some kind of limited way to get at client-side fonts, but I don't think there's any point in replacing putty's cross-platform rendering code with it
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[11:53] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: hmm?  are your fontconfig settings right?
[11:53] <cjwatson> putty needs to know enough about how text is laid out that moving to pango for rendering would represent a complete architectural reshuffling
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I haven't touched them, apart from with clicky tools, so I believe so.
[11:57] <tepsipakki> Mithrandir: I use "Fixed 10", you need to reconfigure fontconfig to enable bitmap-fonts though
[11:59] <tepsipakki> (Fixed SemiCondensed 10 actually)
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[12:02] <Mithrandir> tepsipakki: hmm, I could try that
[12:03] <nn> where can i get all the 'stuff' used to automate release builds? I'm working on a fork of ubuntu on top of FreeBSD (and eventually Open and Net too)
[12:03] <tepsipakki> it's the same font that xterm uses by default, I think..
[12:03] <nn> wanting to set up automated builds whenever something changes in either the ubuntu or {free,net,open}bsd upstreams
[12:04] <nn> i really <3 ubuntu, but i really </3 linux kernel
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[12:07] <cjwatson> doko: I trust you noticed the openoffice.org-l10n FTBFS?
[12:08] <doko> cjwatson: currently building on ronne
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[12:14] <cjwatson> doko: thanks
[12:16] <Chipzz> nn: you're aware there already is a debian/fbsd port? :)
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[12:28] <pitti> hey rodarvus, happy new year!
[12:28] <rodarvus> good morning!
[12:28] <rodarvus> hey pitti!
[12:28] <rodarvus> same for you :)
[12:29] <doko> rodarvus: good morning
[12:29] <doko> rodarvus: is the /usr/X11R6/bin -> ../bin symlink still needed?
[12:29] <rodarvus> doko, hi there!
[12:30] <rodarvus> doko, not for ubuntu itself, but for compatibility reasons, I guess
[12:30] <doko> rodarvus: see bug 64726
[12:30] <doko> rodarvus: see bug #64726
[12:31] <doko> Ubugtu: ?
[12:31] <rodarvus> let me check
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[12:34] <cjwatson> doko: dropping the symlink just for that bug seems like a rather nuclear approach, considering that there's an easy workaroun
[12:35] <cjwatson> workaround
[12:35] <Hobbsee> hey cjwatson!
[12:35] <cjwatson> morning
[12:37] <doko> cjwatson: well, first I would like to understand why the link is needed, after the transition to /usr/bin (for example, if there are binaries hardcoding paths to /usr/X11R6/bin)
[12:38] <cjwatson> doko: "for example"> correct
[12:38] <cjwatson> such instances are bugs (they should use /usr/bin/X11/ at the very least), but I'd like to keep the link around for as long as humanly possible
[12:38] <doko> so our transition isn't yet finished =)
[12:38] <cjwatson> even if it is, there will always be third-party binaries
[12:38] <doko> ok, I'll summarize in the report
[12:39] <cjwatson> doko: why doesn't our gcc just hardcode the paths it needs itself?
[12:39] <cjwatson> it seems pretty weird for it to work them out from argv[0]  when in packaged form
[12:41] <doko> yeah, you can argue that. the benefit is that you can unpack the installation in every place and it finds the correct binaries/headers etc. very useful to install the package multiple times and search for bugs between versions
[12:42] <cjwatson> doko: fair enough; maybe a fallback to the standard location if the guessed one is wrong would be appropriate
[12:42] <cjwatson> or even a specific exclusion for this case, hacky though that is
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[12:48] <doko> cjwatson: maybe a special hack to detect the /usr/X11R6/bin situation could be done. not sure if it's worth the effort.
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=== pitti sings 'where have all my uploads gone -- where're they ever?'
[01:02] <pitti> Keybuk, cjwatson: any idea why my uploads (avahi, two times nss-mdns) got eaten?
=== Hobbsee hugs pitti 
=== Hobbsee ate them, she was hungry
[01:07] <pitti> Hobbsee: spit it out!
[01:07] <cjwatson> pitti: uploaded when?
[01:07] <pitti> cjwatson: some hours ago, and just now
[01:07] <Hobbsee> nope!
=== Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee 
=== Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir back, and stomps on his feet
[01:08] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: my feet are on my desk. :-P
[01:09] <Hobbsee> who said i cant climb onto a desk?  or i could just tip your chair over :P
[01:09] <cjwatson> process-upload seems to be stuck ...
[01:10] <pitti> Hobbsee: yay tabledancing :)
[01:10] <Keybuk> cjwatson: could it be failing to contact the ubuntu.com mail server?
[01:10] <Keybuk> that seems to be down
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[01:11] <cjwatson> I'm stracing to find out
[01:12] <elmo> Keybuk: eh?
[01:12] <elmo> it is not
[01:12] <Hobbsee> pitti: *grin*
[01:12] <Keybuk> elmo: I'm not getting mail from it
[01:13] <cjwatson> I don't think it's a mail problem, despite appearances
[01:13] <elmo> Keybuk: Jan  2 12:13:37 fiordland postfix/smtp[32076] : 101C7B680B7: to=<[email protected]>, orig_to=<[email protected]>, rela
[01:13] <elmo> y=paperboy.netsplit.com[82.108.80.242] , delay=0, status=sent (250 ok 1167740017 qp 1709)
[01:14] <cjwatson> lp takes about a week to start up inside strace
[01:14] <cjwatson> insane numbers of imports
[01:14] <Keybuk> elmo: the last bug mail I had was Friday ...
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Keybuk, that's bug mail. It's stuffed.
[01:14] <geser> Mithrandir: can you please give-back libzrtpcpp? thanks
[01:15] <elmo> Keybuk: bug mail for LP is down, that's an entirely separate problem and is an LP code issue, nothing to do with mail servers
[01:15] <cjwatson> it appears to hang doing an INSERT INTO SourcePackageRelease
[01:15] <Hobbsee> oh well.  no bug mail means we cant fix any bugs, surely....
[01:15] <Keybuk> elmo: ah, ok; I combined that with the lack of anything in my ubuntu folder (no spam!) and assumed that it was just down
[01:15] <Hobbsee> speaking of bugs and mail....guess i'd better go figure out if i have to file a MIR.
=== Fujitsu doesn't see any bugs on the bug mail issue.
[01:16] <Mithrandir> geser: done
[01:17] <elmo> Fujitsu: feel free to file one on launchpad, if there really isn't one, and let me know what it is, and I'll bump it to critical
[01:17] <Fujitsu> I've checked the malone and launchpad products... anywhere else I should be looking?
[01:17] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: no spam???  *gasps and dies*
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=== Hobbsee concludes that kmail is just crap.
[01:25] <elmo> Fujitsu: no, that's it
[01:29] <Seveas> well,bug mail isn't entirely down
[01:29] <geser> where should a bug about out-of-date of Contents-$arch.gz files on http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/feisty/ be filed?
[01:29] <Seveas> I've received a few in the last week
[01:30] <Seveas> geser, nowhere. Feisty is too much in flux to have an up to date Contents-$arch.gz all the time
[01:31] <geser> this means apt-file is of no use on feisty now
[01:31] <Mithrandir> geser: they shouldn't be, we generate them by hand once in a while.
[01:31] <elmo> Seveas: I'd be surprised - the bug mail code has been disabled
[01:31] <elmo> Seveas/Mithrandir: that's crack
[01:31] <elmo> Contents files should be auto-generated
[01:31] <elmo> but there's a bug open already, somewhere against the soyuz product, I'd imagine
[01:32] <Seveas> elmo, 2:54 today i got one and one on thu, 17:29 and fri 10:43 (UTC)
[01:32] <Mithrandir> I think we might have cronned it to happen weekly or so.
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[01:32] <geser> the current Contents files are from 25 Oct 2006
[01:33] <Seveas> err, the friday mail is a false positive, sorry
[01:33] <elmo> Mithrandir: then it's not working very well...
[01:34] <Seveas> elmo, on another note: are you available tue 9th at 21:00 for a CC meeting?
[01:34] <Mithrandir> elmo: it doesn't appear in lp_publish's crontab either, which would explain why. :-P
[01:34] <elmo> Seveas: sure
[01:34] <Seveas> great :)
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[01:47] <Keybuk> training fingers to learn a new passphrase is painful :(
[01:47] <Hobbsee> haha
=== Hobbsee wonders if it's better to fix kmail, or just remove install thunderbird by default in kubuntu :P
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[01:56] <doko> cjwatson: was the gcc-defaults upload rejected?
[01:57] <elmo> smurf_: ping
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[01:59] <cjwatson> doko: stalled due to Soyuz bug being investigated
[01:59] <cjwatson> doko: at least that's what's happening to all uploads right now
[02:00] <doko> ok, collecting then for mass upload
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[02:07] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you're an archive admin right?  any chance you could push mailody through feisty NEW for me please?
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[02:08] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I did it half an hour ago
[02:08] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: way cool, thanks!
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[02:22] <cjwatson> doko: just upload them, they'll be processed when it's fixed
[02:32] <cjwatson> doko: should be working again now, thanks to elmo, cprov, et al
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[02:33] <pitti> yay, thanks guys!
[02:33] <zul> morning
[02:36] <pitti> hi zul, happy new year!
[02:37] <zul> hey pitti, you too
[02:40] <Hobbsee> can someone tell me why tuxguitar 0.8-3 was REJECTED.?
[02:40] <Hobbsee> (sync from debian)
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: it has licence problems.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> right
[02:40] <Mithrandir> ships some binaries in the .orig.tar.gz without source
[02:40] <Mithrandir> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=405295
[02:40] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 405295 in tuxguitar "tuxguitar: files without source in tarball" [Serious,Open]  
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[02:42] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: sorry that I forgot to Cc you on the rejection mail, but I didn't remember it was a requested sync.
[02:42] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: OK
[02:42] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:43] <zul>  Mithrandir: i should have xen-3.0.4 by the end of the week so you can play with it
[02:44] <xerxas> Hey all ! 
[02:44] <xerxas> Happy new year 
[02:45] <Mithrandir> zul: yay
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[02:53] <bddebian> Heya
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[03:10] <giskard> ciao
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[03:40] <smurf_> elmo: ?
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[04:07] <doko> cjwatson, Mithrandir, Keybuk: please could you process the subversion binaries in NEW?
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[04:10] <Mithrandir> doko: I'll do it
[04:11] <Welsh_Dwarf> Hi everyone, I've got a question about customising debian-installer (ubuntu alternate), whiwh is: what is a udeb? is it the same format as a deb?
[04:11] <Welsh_Dwarf> which is, sorry :)
[04:11] <Mithrandir> doko: or somebody did it before me; there are none there now.
[04:11] <Welsh_Dwarf> Oh, and happy new year to all!
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[04:19] <evand> Welsh_Dwarf: http://people.debian.org/~fjp/talks/debconf6/paper/index.html#id2535182
[04:21] <Welsh_Dwarf> Brilliant, thanks :)
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[04:38] <elmo> umm, how do you start ubiquity in expert mode?
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[04:39] <elmo> cjwatson: ^- ?
[04:40] <ogra> there is an expert mode ?
[04:40] <elmo> no there isn't, I'm actually being a retard
[04:40] <elmo> don't mind me
[04:41] <cjwatson> what ogra implied
[04:42] <cjwatson> what are you actually trying to do? :)
[04:43] <elmo> cjwatson: mac pro install - was following your instructions from our conversation a couple of weeks ago while half asleep
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[04:43] <elmo> ubiquity could do with learning about --help tho ;-)
[04:44] <cjwatson> elmo: it has so learnt, in feisty
[04:45] <cjwatson> but yeah, you want d-i
[04:46] <elmo> cjwatson: ok - has it learnt how to  bail if screen res is < what it actually supports? ;-)
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[04:50] <cjwatson> elmo: no
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[04:52] <elmo> cjwatson: reasonable request/wishlist bug report?
[04:56] <cjwatson> elmo: you could tack it on as an alternate suggestion in bug 38442
[04:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38442 in ubiquity "Doesn't support 640x480 resolution" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38442
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[05:03] <elmo> cjwatson: done, thanks
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[05:10] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: did you get time to try to nail down that console-setup problem at any point?
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[05:17] <doko> cjwatson, Keybuk: please could you promote libjaxp1.3-java (needed by current libxalan2-java and libxerces2-java builds)
[05:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: no, sorry, I've entirely forgotten.
[05:17] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: I can try to get it done tomorrow.
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[05:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: can I ask you again about postgresql-8.2, so that we'll get enough time for the transition?
[05:24] <cjwatson> doko: done; please direct routine archive admin requests to Mithrandir from now on
[05:25] <doko> cjwatson: ok, thanks
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[05:29] <BenC> cjwatson: I have a question...what's the purpose of building ia64 stuff if it isn't going to be published?
[05:29] <BenC> none of my kernels ever show up on ports for ia64
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[05:35] <cjwatson> BenC: that's a sysadmin question ... ports.ubuntu.com mirroring is probably a bit broken
[05:36] <cjwatson> BenC: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.19/ has some stuff, but I think is outdated, so maybe it was only broken recently
[05:36] <cjwatson> elmo: ?
[05:37] <BenC> cjwatson: It's interesting that no one else has complained :)
[05:39] <elmo> ah, excellent
[05:39] <kylem> it's ia64... ;-)
[05:42] <BenC> for a community port, it definitely is missing the community aspect
[05:42] <elmo> fixed
[05:42] <BenC> unless lamont == community :)
[05:42] <elmo> it hadn't synced in like, uh, a month
[05:42] <BenC> elmo: thanks
[05:42] <elmo> I'll file a bug on soyuz for hiding the errors
[05:43] <BenC> elmo: should I see stuff on ports.u.c now?
[05:43] <BenC> I see an empty linux-source-2.6.20 directory
[05:43] <elmo> BenC: give it 2-3 minutes
[05:43] <BenC> ok
[05:43] <elmo> BenC: it's syncing over Gb, but it still takes time to catch up over a month
[05:44] <BenC> so what's the deal with hppa, while we're on the subject of ports?
[05:45] <BenC> I thought feisty was supposed to be parisc's come-back release
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[05:54] <doko> away for the evening ...
[05:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: can you remind me about what you was asking again?  It's been a few days.
[05:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: to sync/NEW the package from Debian to Ubuntu main
[05:56] <pitti> bug 75114
[05:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 75114 in Ubuntu "Please sync postgresql-8.2 from Debian experimental" [Undecided,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/75114
[05:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: oh, sure.
[05:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: sorry for the urge, but the earlier we do it, the less work we'll have for the universe transition
[05:57] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure, no problem, I'll just have to find my laptop
=== pitti hugs Mithrandir 
[05:58] <pitti> Mithrandir: happy new year!
[05:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: same to you :-)
[06:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: to main or universe?
[06:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: straight to main would be best
[06:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, willdo
[06:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: after we'll have it there, I'll care for obsoleting 8.1 in main
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[06:02] <Mithrandir> I figured that much. :-)
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[06:05] <Mithrandir> sync-source seems to fail to generate a .changes file since libecpg-dev is in main, but the new source isn't.
[06:05] <Mithrandir> even with -f to force it.
[06:06] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ^^ do you know of a workaround for this?
[06:08] <Keybuk> -F
[06:08] <Keybuk> -f -F
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[06:09] <Mithrandir> ah, thanks.
[06:09] <wasabi> heh. somehow I don't have pmount installed.
[06:10] <pitti> wasabi: nothing in standard ubuntu desktop needs it any more
[06:10] <wasabi> oh?
[06:10] <wasabi> I was wondering hwy  my drives weren't automounting. ;0
[06:10] <pitti> they should
[06:10] <pitti> wasabi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices, please
[06:11] <Mithrandir> pitti: there you go, it'll require source new; I'll try to get to that tomorrow.
[06:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: great, thanks!
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[06:18] <troy_s> Hey guys... what package has the gtk-engines development package in it?
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[06:22] <troy_s> in particular cairo-support.h
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[06:24] <Chipzz> troy_s: this is not a support channel; and try http://packages.ubuntu.com/
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[06:25] <troy_s> thanks chipzz.
[06:25] <troy_s> but i tried that.  i figured i was missing something obvious.
[06:27] <somerville32> pitti: ping
[06:28] <pitti> somerville32: hello
[06:28] <somerville32> Have you seen https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/77383 ?
[06:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 77383 in vnc4 "vnc4 authentication bypass" [Critical,Unconfirmed]  
[06:28] <somerville32> towsonu2003 set it to critical
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[06:39] <pitti> somerville32: yes, I saw it, but it's universe and thus we cannot prioritize it; we are currently busy with main stuff like firefox
[06:40] <somerville32> Should it be marked critical?
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[06:40] <pitti> somerville32: it already is
[06:40] <somerville32> I know.
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[06:42] <pitti> BenC: do you think the apport kernel changes are something for the sprint? shall I put it onto the agenda?
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[07:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: we want libx86 in main for usplash; it's a librarification of source already in usplash, you're fine with just putting it directly in main, right?
[07:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: of course
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[08:34] <BenC> pitti: Probably so, I need to get the driver-manager changes in, and that's going to take most of my time
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[08:59] <siretart> Keybuk: TB meeting now?
[09:00] <Keybuk> siretart: yup
[09:00] <siretart> excellent :)
[09:01] <mjg59> What's on the agenda?
[09:01] <Keybuk> mjg59: ffmpeg
[09:02] <mjg59> Didn't we cover this last time?
=== ogra thought that as well
[09:02] <Keybuk> mjg59: #ubuntu-meeting
[09:04] <siretart> ogra: the resolution was me to file a MIR. I made an request for xine-lib as interim solution, which I'd like to be discussed
[09:04] <siretart> ogra: in paralell, I wrote an email about ffmpeg to the tb mailing list
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[09:25] <ogra> Riddell, ping
[09:25] <Riddell> hi ogra 
[09:25] <ogra> Riddell, could you merge the openbsd-inetd seedchange please, so netkit-inetd can get demoted ?
[09:26] <ogra> i pinged during your holidays already but without expecting success indeed :)
[09:26] <Riddell> I'm still on holiday :)
[09:26] <ogra> oh, ok
[09:26] <Riddell> but you're in luck, I have merge seeds coming right up on my todo list
[09:27] <ogra> yay
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[09:35] <Riddell> ogra: done
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[10:36] <lmanul> Keybuk: ping?
[10:39] <somerville32> Is there anyone here that is subscribed to feisty-changes AND can mass fwd them to an address for me (for legit reasons, of course)?
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[10:41] <gnomefreak> initramfs-tools is whos package?
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[10:43] <Keybuk> lmanul: hi
[10:43] <Keybuk> somerville32: use the web archive?
[10:43] <lifeless> morin Keybuk 
[10:43] <lifeless> erm
[10:43] <lifeless> 'moin'
[10:43] <lmanul> Keybuk: Hi :)
[10:43] <Keybuk> lifeless: hey, how goes it?
[10:44] <lmanul> Keybuk: I'd love a piece of advice
[10:44] <lifeless> mostly good, little virus going round sydney thats unpleasant though :(
[10:44] <lmanul> Keybuk: I'm thinking about service management for that spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServicesAdminRedesign
[10:45] <Keybuk> lifeless: hope it's gone by the time I get there <g>
[10:45] <lmanul> Keybuk: There's a dirty-but-seems-efficient solution to know whether a service is running or not, but I thought it might be easier/cleaner with upstart?
[10:45] <Keybuk> much cleaner with upstart
[10:45] <lifeless> Keybuk: its the same one struck down dunedin LCA AIUI
[10:46] <lmanul> Keybuk: Great, can you point me somewhere I can learn how to use it? Some man page? Web page?
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[10:47] <Keybuk> lmanul: man initctl
[10:48] <Keybuk> e,g,
[10:48] <Keybuk> quest scott% sudo initctl status tty1
[10:48] <Keybuk> tty1 (start) running, process 4820 active
[10:48] <Keybuk> lifeless: less than two weeks to go!! *excited*
[10:48] <lifeless> whoot
[10:48] <lmanul> Keybuk: great! Perfect, exactly what I need. You rock :)
[10:48] <Keybuk> and I bought a brand new laptop, just for the flight <g>
[10:49] <Keybuk> (battery sucks on syndicate)
[10:49] <Keybuk> lmanul: a Python interface to that is in the works; not sure what the API would look like yet
[10:49] <Keybuk> >>> import upstart
[10:49] <Keybuk> >>> upstart.job_status("tty1")
[10:49] <Keybuk> ("start", "running", "active", 4820)
[10:50] <Keybuk> is the current thingy
[10:50] <lmanul> Keybuk: well, I guess using initctl directly should be fine for now...
[10:51] <lasindi> Hi all, not sure if this is the right channel, but here goes: I'm trying to create an Ubuntu package for a Python application I've recently written; I have no experience in packaging. I've been reading through this tutorial (http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/PackagingTutorial) I was directed to from the Ubuntu website, and when I ran dh_make, I chose CDBS as I have no binaries (because of Python). Is this the right choice (I get an error saying it
[10:51] <lasindi> can't find a .orig.tar.gz file)?
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[10:53] <Fujitsu> lasindi, #ubuntu-motu is your best bet.
[10:53] <Keybuk> lmanul: I guess it would just run "initctl list" first -- that gives you a status of every job upstart knows about
[10:54] <neuralis> Keybuk: speaking of upstart, can you toss your original python poc code somewhere?
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[10:54] <lasindi> Fujitsu: okay, the reason I came here is because I don't intend to put my app in Universe (as it's fairly customized), but I'll try there. Thanks
[10:55] <lmanul> Keybuk: hmm, does "knows about" imply the service is active?
[10:56] <Keybuk> lmanul: no, upstart knows about disabled services
[10:56] <Keybuk> neuralis: haven't had a clearance from on-high to release that yet
[10:57] <Keybuk> lmanul: note that all this is talking about things in /etc/event.d -- which for feisty should be all of the default install
[10:57] <Keybuk> it doesn't help you for things still in /etc/init.d
[10:57] <neuralis> Keybuk: any timeline on that? i'm happy to mail mark to see if we can expedite things, if need be.
[10:58] <lmanul> Keybuk: Ah, ok, then I'll still be needed start-stop-daemon I guess
[10:58] <Keybuk> neuralis: mail mark
[10:58] <Keybuk> lmanul: of course, start-stop-daemon won't work for anything in /etc/event.d
[10:58] <Keybuk> (yay, transition)
[10:58] <neuralis> Keybuk: okay.
[10:59] <lmanul> Keybuk: Ok, I should have all the info I want with both upstart and start-stop-daemon. Good
[10:59] <Keybuk> neuralis: I'm totally unconvinced you even want to do it in Python
[10:59] <Keybuk> the signal handling just isn't sufficient
[10:59] <lmanul> neuralis: hi :)
[11:00] <Keybuk> (for an example of why init is special, compile the following code and run it with init= on the kernel command-line
[11:00] <Keybuk>   for (;;) {
[11:00] <Keybuk>       int *a = 0;
[11:00] <Keybuk>       *a = 1;
[11:00] <Keybuk>   }
[11:00] <Keybuk> and marvel at the lack of segv'ing :p
[11:00] <mjg59> Aiee 
[11:00] <mjg59> trying to kill init
[11:00] <Keybuk> mjg59: it won't kill it <g>
[11:01] <neuralis> Keybuk: i'm not hell-bent on using python for this, but we do need a forking launcher for python programs (which will obviously be in python), and i wanted to see if it'd make sense to graft what trivial init functionality we need onto that launcher.
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[11:01] <neuralis> lmanul: hi there.
[11:02] <neuralis> Keybuk: in all likelihood, we'll be starting just a few things at boot, with a stupidly simple depgraph
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[11:06] <tepsipakki> which ml should be the target for a "join my pkg team" kind of a (devel-centric) post? u-d, sounder?
[11:07] <Keybuk> neuralis: starting isn't the problem ... dealing with the things the kernel needs init to do, that's the problem :)
[11:07] <Keybuk> tepsipakki: sounder
[11:07] <tepsipakki> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[11:08] <jdub>     + debian/avahi-daemon.default:
[11:08] <jdub>       - Don't start the daemon by default
[11:08] <jdub> ^ horror!
[11:08] <Keybuk> jdub: we're starting it by default in feisty
[11:08] <Keybuk>   * debian/avahi-daemon.default: Start avahi by default. Our new
[11:08] <Keybuk>     https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DefaultNetworkServices policy allows this now, and
[11:08] <Keybuk>     ZeroConfNetworking specifies enabling by default.
[11:09] <jdub> so this is just a merge thing
[11:09] <jdub> ?
[11:09] <Keybuk> "merge thing" ?
[11:09] <Keybuk> reference?
[11:09] <jdub> avahi (0.6.16-1ubuntu1) feisty; urgency=low
[11:09] <jdub>   * Merge from debian unstable, remaining changes:
[11:09] <jdub> ...
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[11:09] <jdub>     + debian/avahi-daemon.default:
[11:09] <jdub>       - Don't start the daemon by default
[11:09] <Keybuk> no idea
[11:09] <neuralis> Keybuk: well, we're not exactly going to have a lot of dynamic hardware changes. are there other things that are particularly ugly?
[11:10] <Keybuk> neuralis: yes, init has totally different signal handling than any other process
[11:10] <Keybuk> it's the parent of all processes without a parent, and has to reap them
[11:10] <Keybuk> etc.
[11:10] <Keybuk> jdub: my only guess is that pitti was asleep when he did that merge
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[11:11] <neuralis> Keybuk: so, does this work in your prototype?
[11:11] <neuralis> Keybuk: i'd be happier with "works but is somewhat uglyish" in python, than "works and isn't ugly" in C, in this instance.
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[11:11] <Keybuk> neuralis: no
[11:13] <Keybuk> jdub: the debian/avahi-daemon.default in the merged source certainly starts it
[11:13] <Keybuk> anyhoo, bed
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[11:30] <lifeless> wheee, spliteee
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[11:48] <siretart> Riddell: xine-lib 1.1.3-0ubuntu1 ACCEPTED :)
=== somerville32 just parsed it in TUWNUDBCNMSP
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[11:52] <Riddell> siretart: does debian also have the split ffmpeg package?
[11:52] <siretart> Riddell: not yet. I'm waiting for a) to release etch, or b) elmo create my debian account, at which point I'll upload it to experimental
[11:53] <Riddell> siretart: so does your upload to ubuntu have the split ffmpeg binary package?  it doesn't say so in the merge changelog
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