2007/01/31/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

[12:57] <lizardking__> goodnight everybody
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[02:16] <klepas> moin
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[06:43] <coz_> looks like numbers have dwindled
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[05:31] <nysosym> hi there :)
[05:31] <nysosym> any news?
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[06:21] <troy_s> greets nysosym
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[06:23] <troy_s> greets lizardking_
[06:23] <lizardking_> troy_s: Hi, I just finshed to study information retireival :D
[06:23] <troy_s> what are you taking in uni as your ugrad?
[06:25] <lizardking_> what's ugrad?
[06:27] <nysosym> hi troy_s and lizardking_ :)
[06:27] <lizardking_> Hi guy!
[06:28] <nysosym> Hmm i think it's a good way to make beryl/compit optional. :)
[06:29] <nysosym> But i liked the face browser idea for gdm, is these deffered although?
[06:29] <troy_s> ugrad == under grad degree
[06:29] <troy_s> as in your 4 year bachelors degree major
[06:30] <troy_s> i think fundamentally proceeding into opengl design issues
[06:30] <troy_s> without a strategy
[06:30] <troy_s> or the ability to offer other users suitable simulations via software
[06:30] <troy_s> is simply foolish
[06:32] <troy_s> sabdfl should just bork the whole gnome / kde war, fund an ubuntu-centric window manager in a similar vein to e17
[06:32] <lizardking_> When I will under grad senior degree , I will try to get a work in Canonical/ubuntu :D
[06:32] <troy_s> what is your major?
[06:32] <troy_s> computer science?
[06:32] <nysosym> troy_s: ok, but i think face-browser has a absolutely "must have" effect
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[06:32] <troy_s> nysosym: face browsers offer a fundamental security issue
[06:33] <lizardking_> troy_s: yes computer science, networks, sw development
[06:33] <troy_s> nysosym: which isn't a huge deal in a home environment, but could be 'yet one more small detail' in a library, corporate, etc.
[06:33] <nysosym> troy_s: sure, but i option to activate them would be nice :D
[06:33] <troy_s> nysosym: option is great
[06:33] <troy_s> nysosym: but default is a no brainer.
[06:34] <troy_s> and once again, having the technology and integrating it with some degree of design based thinking is a whole other matter.
[06:35] <troy_s> Ubuntu has enough issues trying to get a bloody plan into place _without_ the complexities of GL interface design wrapped into it.
[06:36] <nysosym> But Macslow, would be write the code for that feature. Anyway, where is fschoep?
[06:36] <troy_s> fschoep left the Ubuntu crowd
[06:37] <nysosym> why? O.o
[06:37] <troy_s> We have enough features
[06:37] <troy_s> look at the nightmare we already have with rather scattered presentation
[06:37] <troy_s> look at the website, the packaging, the operating system itself, etc.
[06:37] <troy_s> its is just bloody awful across _all_ the ubuntus.
[06:39] <nysosym> Sure, i'm aren't a developer, that's only my mind. I think feisty fawn will be the direct concurrent of Vista and Leopard, and we should have many more eyecandy for a lot of new users.
[06:39] <troy_s> not a chance
[06:39] <troy_s> there is exactly 0% chance for Ubuntu to even be close to competing with those two
[06:40] <troy_s> they have actual design teams with trained and educated people on them
[06:40] <troy_s> we can't even agree to disagree
[06:40] <troy_s> Eyecandy is carefully planned and executed
[06:40] <troy_s> in both those environments
[06:40] <troy_s> not haphazard and scattered as in Ubuntu
[06:41] <troy_s> there is simply no hope until Ubuntu starts thinking about design -- the _full_ picture.
[06:41] <nysosym> what a shame, but ok, i agree that other things have a lot bigger priority
[06:42] <troy_s> In Free Software design, people realize they are working on a SINGLE project and the code MUST fit or else it will not work.
[06:42] <troy_s> In design -- everyone is happy go lucky
[06:42] <troy_s> There is no 'bigger picture' -- no central application that simply will 'work' or 'not work'
[06:42] <troy_s> No one treating it as a discipline
[06:43] <troy_s> It is a hobby level of design in FOSS.
[06:43] <troy_s> Simply abhorrent.
[06:43] <troy_s> No vision.  Simplistic mimicry of the most mediocre variety.
[06:43] <troy_s> Etc.
[06:44] <troy_s> Unfortunately, that paints a bleak picture, but quite simply, it is the reality.
[06:44] <nysosym> yes, fully agreed!
[06:44] <nysosym> What we need is a global design guideline
[06:44] <troy_s> You need look no further than the awful tacky photography on the packaging, the rather 'always attempt to be middle grey unoffensive' stance of the work.
[06:44] <troy_s> etc.
[06:44] <troy_s> yep
[06:45] <troy_s> But unfortunately, the man steering that process A) doesn't give a feck and doesn't appreciate its importance in the product, B) doesn't have an understanding of even the most fundamental principles, etc.
[06:45] <troy_s> Brilliant guy
[06:45] <nysosym> but, the most devs are hobby programmer and nobody can force them to use these guideline
[06:45] <troy_s> but on seeing the whole package, he simply flails.
[06:46] <troy_s> Yes... or untrained 'artists'
[06:46] <troy_s> And we do have trained folks in our midst.
[06:46] <troy_s> coz_ I know for certain is trained and educated.
[06:46] <troy_s> Etc.
[06:46] <troy_s> It has a serious impact when attempting to evaluate directionality -- as in 'the future' -- as you can evaluate patterns based on your historical knowledge, etc.
[06:47] <nysosym> troy_s: ok, but on the other side, 98% of applications in OSX looks perfect, stylish and perfect. Why can't Linux dev make these true?!
[06:47] <troy_s> I already explained that...
[06:47] <troy_s> First, OSX isn't the end all nor something we would want to imitate
[06:47] <troy_s> It has flaws.
[06:47] <troy_s> etc.
[06:48] <troy_s> That said, Apple has a very educated design staff
[06:48] <troy_s> And that is why it is successful
[06:48] <troy_s> They all discuss things on an artistic / design level -- they brainstorm -- etc.  They don't just push pixels and hope it fits in.
[06:48] <troy_s> They look at the whole package -- how will the elements fit in against the design attributes of the casings, etc.
[06:49] <troy_s> How does the interface actually 'work' with their target audience?
[06:49] <nysosym> yes ok, sry i'm aren't so good in english and read your lines inquiring, but very slow...
[06:49] <troy_s> Lol.
[06:49] <troy_s> Your english is darn good compared to my ability to speak in another language...
[06:49] <nysosym> thx, but slow ^^
[06:50] <troy_s> The best analogy I can communicate is something similar to say, the jackd audio central server -- anyone who writes audio applications integrates with it.
[06:50] <troy_s> In design, there is no such need.
[06:50] <troy_s> Rather, there is the _need_ but no such deft application of execution.
[06:51] <troy_s> You have a percentage of people who want Ubuntu to be either "GNOMEish" or "KDEish" (whatever that is -- it isn't like there is an underlying style to either)
[06:51] <troy_s> Then you have a percentage who just do their own thing
[06:51] <troy_s> Etc.
[06:51] <troy_s> In the end however, none of the approaches even attempts to reconcile with something as simple as a communication keyword, a designated audience, etc.
[06:51] <troy_s> Hence -- the byproduct you see now.
[06:52] <troy_s> And it isn't like it has gotten better from Warty
[06:52] <troy_s> It, in fact, has done nothing more than swirl around in an eddy.
[06:53] <troy_s> Factor in politicking, and you have a rather nightmarish situation.
[06:53] <nysosym> sure sure, but what i mean, have a look on many little programs write by hobby devs on osx, like a cpu rating program or similar. These program looks perfect, and simple i don't think that these devs have a look on any guideline. What i think is, that the apple tools to create a gui for an application is a lot better as the linux pendants
[06:53] <troy_s> Uh
[06:54] <troy_s> You are mistaken
[06:54] <troy_s> Have you seen the design guidelines for XP, Vista, or OSX?
[06:54] <troy_s> They are hundreds of pages.
[06:54] <troy_s> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html
[06:54] <troy_s> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511258.aspx
[06:55] <troy_s> preliminary documents on vista are 20 megs
[06:55] <troy_s> This is _SUCH_ a common practice
[06:55] <nysosym> troy_s: ok, but why use a hobby osx dev these guideline and linux devs aren't?
[06:55] <troy_s> in art / design / creative fields... for example, in television, you build a design 'bible' before you shoot a single episode.
[06:55] <troy_s> nysosym:  Probably the simple fact that there simply aren't enough educated folks in the crowd.
[06:56] <troy_s> in a feature film scenario, you write treatments and build a bible
[06:56] <troy_s> in _any_ creative endeavour of a larger capacity, you spend MUCH time evaluating, brainstorming, and most importantly -- RECORDING the thought process and the results.
[06:56] <nysosym> troy_s: yes, i will work in the graphic business and i will design guis for programs and have many ideas, but i can produce these ideas, because i can't write any line of code.
[06:57] <troy_s> I wish I could show you the pre-visualization work I have seen on feature film sets... the art directors often draft THOUSANDS of sketches to develop one simple 1.5 hour movie.
[06:58] <troy_s> nysosym: Integration is the other factor -- apple and ms know and appreciate what the creative design means to the bottom line
[06:58] <troy_s> it means bigger dollars
[06:58] <troy_s> more market share
[06:58] <troy_s> etc.
[06:58] <nysosym> i would help any developer without skills to make a beautiful program with a nice usability. But the most devs don't ask me, for any reason ^^
[06:58] <troy_s> beauty is relative, but I can appreciate your point.
[06:58] <troy_s> that is the thing... the best companies that produce the most compelling design have COLLABORATION at their core
[06:59] <troy_s> everyone is communicating in the same 'idea sphere' and everyone respects each person's vital role in the output
[06:59] <troy_s> segmentation doesn't produce this.
[06:59] <troy_s> Vista packaging for example, is pretty top notch -- but notice how well it integrates with the other aspects
[06:59] <nysosym> that's a big handicap of FOSS
[07:00] <troy_s> Handicap?  That doesn't do the people with handicaps justice.
[07:00] <troy_s> It is a crippling and degenerative disease.
[07:00] <troy_s> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511258.aspx
[07:00] <troy_s> take a look at that page
[07:01] <troy_s> despite the rather 'suspicious' theory
[07:01] <troy_s> it is well documented
[07:02] <troy_s> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511258.aspx
[07:02] <troy_s> its a no brainer
[07:02] <nysosym> Hmm wee need a similar document, for devs who would use a guideline for user experience :)
[07:02] <troy_s> that would take getting everyone on the 'same page'
[07:03] <troy_s> which is completely difficult in terms of execution with the current established process.
[07:03] <troy_s> I fear that this probably will NOT happen
[07:03] <troy_s> until a community team demonstrates the power of the process.
[07:03] <nysosym> sure, damn, i must go to work no. Nice to meet u , thx for conversation and hope to see u soon here
[07:03] <nysosym> :)
[07:03] <troy_s> Chat soon nysosym
[07:03] <troy_s> take care.
[07:04] <nysosym> have a nice day ;)
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[07:13] <lizardking_> gulp, how much long did you chat?
[07:13] <lizardking_> ;)
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[09:36] <Tessa> does someone know a channel where i can ask graphic-related questions which came up in the use of ubuntu dapper? this certainly aint the right place for such things is it?
[09:37] <Tessa> its about mass editing via commandline
[09:37] <troy_s> yes
[09:37] <Tessa> which channel would this be?
[09:37] <troy_s> Tessa: probably this one
[09:37] <troy_s> not that we can do anything
[09:37] <troy_s> nor that anyone in a position to implement changes would listen
[09:38] <Tessa> good. ;)
[09:38] <troy_s> that said, we might be able to forward your thoughts to the proper people
[09:38] <Tessa> do you know a way to desaturate a bunch of files recursively thorught a structure of folders with one command? something like batch-desaturating?
[09:39] <troy_s> Of course
[09:39] <Tessa> how could this be done?
[09:39] <troy_s> In fact, in doing so you will perhaps learn one of the most powerful image processing tools available anywhere...
[09:39] <troy_s> Unfortunately, there are no gui's for it
[09:39] <troy_s> www.imagemagick.org
[09:39] <Tessa> let me guess: image magik?
[09:39] <troy_s> (well there are but they stink)
[09:39] <Tessa> ah i ve heard about it
[09:39] <troy_s> of course
[09:40] <troy_s> ;)
[09:40] <troy_s> imagemagick can do image manipulation on a scale that would shock photoshop
[09:40] <troy_s> better algorithms
[09:40] <troy_s> better speed and cross architecture
[09:40] <troy_s> i strongly recommend it.
[09:40] <troy_s> couple it with a bit of simple bash scripting and you have quite a powerhouse.
[09:41] <Tessa> so i guess batch-desaturating is one of the easy-as-pie features if one knows how to do it with imagemagick?
[09:41] <troy_s> Actually
[09:42] <troy_s> Imagemagick is one of the few projects that seems to put a heavy stress on documentation
[09:42] <troy_s> If you are comfy with the command line
[09:42] <troy_s> You should be able to execute image wizardry in a few mere moments.
[09:42] <Tessa> As far as i can judge from what i see at the page it seems to be kind of a programming language to me newbie ;)
[09:42] <troy_s> Well perhaps I could step you through it?
[09:43] <Tessa> I didnt dare to ask but now that you offer it i cant say no ;)
[09:43] <Tessa> let me first install it
[09:43] <troy_s> The syntax is always the same "imagemagickproggie_you_want" inputfile outputfile
[09:43] <troy_s> sudo apt-get install imagemagick
[09:44] <Tessa> thats sounds pretty easy so far
[09:44] <Tessa> i guess the trouble starts whith the recursive processing of the folder structure
[09:44] <Tessa> ok installed
[09:44] <troy_s> yes...
[09:45] <troy_s> the good news is that imagemagick handles wildcards very well
[09:45] <troy_s> so you won't need to script
[09:45] <troy_s> although for recursion, i suspect you will need to.
[09:45] <Tessa> great i ve never been a script person yet
[09:47] <Tessa> what would be the best way to start then?
[09:47] <Tessa> create an empty document?
[09:47] <troy_s> well first learn how
[09:47] <troy_s> to achieve what you want on the command line
[09:47] <troy_s> iwth imagemagick
[09:47] <troy_s> as the order of your modifiers will affect your output
[09:47] <troy_s> so you don't want to dive right into scripting just yet.
[09:48] <Tessa> thats true
[09:48] <troy_s> so first try to execute a desaturate on a directory
[09:48] <troy_s> using a wildcard scenario
[09:48] <troy_s> note that when you select this link (command line tools): http://www.imagemagick.org/script/command-line-tools.php
[09:49] <Tessa> something like convert colors <options> *.png *.png?
[09:49] <troy_s> you will see there is no 'imagemagick' program
[09:49] <troy_s> it is actually subdivided into several different tools
[09:49] <troy_s> learn what each one does
[09:49] <troy_s> before you learn more
[09:49] <troy_s> not so much what each program CAN do, but rather loosely what it can do
[09:49] <troy_s> and yes, you are already there...
[09:49] <troy_s> the tool we want is convert
[09:49] <troy_s> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/convert.php
[09:50] <troy_s> -modulate value  	vary the brightness, saturation, and hue
[09:50] <troy_s> the ONLY issue with the docs is that they will often reference other areas of the docs, as they will only explain things in one area
[09:50] <troy_s> and they aren't cross linked at parts...
[09:51] <troy_s> so for example, geometry will only be explained in one place.
[09:51] <troy_s> in order
[09:51] <Tessa> read and reread and crosslink is the way to go then.
[09:51] <Tessa> *crossread
[09:51] <troy_s> convert -modulate <BRIGHTNESS>,<SATURATION>,<HUE>
[09:51] <troy_s> so
[09:51] <troy_s> say we had 2000 pngs in a dir
[09:52] <troy_s> we simply type
[09:52] <troy_s> convert -modulate 0,80,0 *.png
[09:52] <troy_s> erk
[09:52] <troy_s> convert -modulate 0,80,0 *.png output.png
[09:52] <troy_s> and that will create numbered outputs
[09:52] <troy_s> with 0 change in BRIGHT
[09:52] <troy_s> 80% original sat (-20%)
[09:52] <troy_s> and 0 change in HUE
[09:52] <troy_s> follow me?
[09:53] <troy_s> also
[09:53] <troy_s> i believe that hte order might affect it in this case...
[09:53] <troy_s> it might be
[09:53] <Tessa> lets say i'd like to keep the original filenames and dont want to have copies. i would use mogrify instead of convert right?
[09:53] <troy_s> convert *.png -modulate 0,80,0 output.png
[09:53] <troy_s> mogrify will do that yes.
[09:53] <troy_s> this will be a breeze for you... it appears you have already gotten the idea.
[09:54] <Tessa> so far it sounds pretty good.
[09:54] <troy_s> i wouldn't advise mogrifying until you are certain you have what you want.
[09:54] <troy_s> pretty good is an understatement...
[09:54] <Tessa> i would copy the whole folder before mogrifying
[09:54] <troy_s> you need to see exactly what it can do to appreciate it...
[09:54] <troy_s> sure
[09:54] <troy_s> or just convert with output
[09:54] <troy_s> and destination
[09:54] <troy_s> probably faster
[09:54] <troy_s> also
[09:54] <Tessa> i think i have a slight hint of an impression and really i am amazed already
[09:54] <troy_s> you will want to know perhaps the most valuable command parameter:
[09:54] <troy_s> -monitor!
[09:54] <troy_s> as in convert -monitor blah blah blah
[09:55] <Tessa> what does it do?
[09:55] <troy_s> this will spew output so that you can rest assured that imagemagick isn't just sitting there.
[09:55] <troy_s> some processes take a long time
[09:55] <Tessa> ok.
[09:55] <troy_s> and monitor offers a rather verbose description of what is going on.
[09:55] <troy_s> as you can see, it has nothing to do with your monitor
[09:55] <Tessa> ;)
[09:55] <Tessa> let me have a quick try on what you teached me already
[09:57] <troy_s> you also might want to try your passes on a few sample files first
[09:57] <troy_s> just to make sure you get the values proper
[09:57] <troy_s> before you batch -- but i assume that is an obvious step
[09:58] <Tessa> yep it is
[09:58] <Tessa> i just grabbed some testing files and i am trying now to mogrify
[09:59] <Tessa> ok it worked. not what i wanted it to look like but it worked
[09:59] <troy_s> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/command-line-options.php#sigmoidal
[10:00] <troy_s> yes... so you might want to figure out exactly what you want
[10:00] <troy_s> imagemagick has about a gazillion different algs for all sorts of things
[10:00] <troy_s> then you multiply that by the fact that you can do channel based changes etc
[10:00] <troy_s> and you get about a ga ga gazillion different options
[10:00] <Tessa> truely amazing.
[10:01] <troy_s> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/command-line-options.php#channel
[10:01] <troy_s> that is handy
[10:02] <troy_s> it really is the end all in terms of functionality
[10:02] <Tessa> i just realized that i actually have only 8 folders filled with pngs. so i think we can save the scripting part for another time. it will take some time to figure out how i get what i want
[10:02] <troy_s> but it takes a bit of learning as it simply can do so much
[10:02] <troy_s> yes...
[10:02] <troy_s> there are a few very clunky guis out there
[10:02] <troy_s> that might get you close to what you want
[10:02] <troy_s> then you can figure out the smaller details by reading the docs on a particular pass.
[10:02] <troy_s> if i might ask, what are you trying to do exactly?
[10:03] <Tessa> i ll go the try & error lane first and when i am too desperate i might have a look at these guis
[10:03] <troy_s> Tessa?
[10:03] <troy_s> Can you post a quick sample to imagebin?
[10:03] <Tessa> I am having an icon theme here which i want to desat completely
[10:03] <troy_s> and try to describe what you want?
[10:03] <troy_s> Erm... as in turn it greyscale?
[10:04] <troy_s> Or just nerf the saturation slightly?
[10:04] <Tessa> so i have 800 pngs and as easy and maybe silly as it sounds i want them b/w
[10:04] <troy_s> Then try a greyscale
[10:04] <troy_s> or monochrome
[10:04] <troy_s> you are basically looking at greyscaling with imagemagick
[10:04] <Tessa> changing the image mode from rgb to greyscale?
[10:04] <troy_s> hold on... :)
[10:06] <troy_s> http://www.imagemagick.org/script/command-line-options.php#colorspace
[10:06] <troy_s> ;)
[10:06] <troy_s> there you go
[10:06] <Tessa> yay that looks good
[10:06] <troy_s> Choices are: CMYK, GRAY, HSL, HWB, OHTA, Rec601Luma, Rec709Luma, RGB, Transparent, XYZ, YCbCr, YIQ, YPbPr, or YUV.
[10:06] <troy_s> and yes, you can finely tune it if you want more control
[10:06] <troy_s> in particular, you could try -separate
[10:06] <troy_s> separate an image channel into a grayscale image. Specify the channel with -channel.
[10:07] <troy_s> again, the real power is the versatility of combining the functionality
[10:07] <troy_s> it is _damn_ powerful.
[10:07] <troy_s> and it can handle svg too... although YMMV with inkscape output.
[10:07] <Tessa> yes and it feels like starting to learn calculating from scratch ;) but i guess once one is used to it and know what can be done how its magic
[10:08] <troy_s> well i have a general rule
[10:08] <troy_s> i just 'accept' that imagemagick can do what i want it to
[10:08] <troy_s> the rest is figuring out how
[10:08] <troy_s> although, again, the docs are pretty solid.
[10:08] <troy_s> there are nuances you will find like 'montage -tile 4' etc.
[10:08] <Tessa> thank you troy for giving a newbie a lesson like this and a really worthful insight in what is possible with this tool!
[10:09] <troy_s> montage is a great tool too if you are doing batches
[10:09] <troy_s> you might want to try something like:
[10:09] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 200 -label %f -frame 2 files.png
[10:10] <troy_s> or smaller if you are dealing with icons for example
[10:10] <troy_s> say you are iconing them at perhaps 48x48
[10:10] <troy_s> then try
[10:10] <Tessa> what will this do?
[10:10] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 48 -tile 20 -label %f -frame 2 files.png
[10:10] <troy_s> try it :)
[10:10] <troy_s> very handy
[10:10] <troy_s> in fact, i dare say that you will use it all the time on batches...
[10:10] <troy_s> it creates a contact sheet
[10:10] <troy_s> of your work
[10:11] <troy_s> all to the same sizes
[10:11] <troy_s> if you specify half of the geometry ( -geometry <WIDTH>x<HEIGHT> )
[10:11] <Tessa> wow. let me have a try
[10:11] <troy_s> if you do a -geometry 20, it will always maintain aspect ratio to 20 wide
[10:11] <troy_s> if you do 20x30 it will stretch
[10:12] <troy_s> -tile controls the number of tiles you want in your montage
[10:12] <troy_s> so -tile 5 indicates you want FIVE mini thumbs across
[10:12] <troy_s> by whatever long
[10:12] <troy_s> you can also omit it and it will generate a rectangular overall shape of hundreds of montage elements.
[10:12] <troy_s> -frame gives it a border
[10:13] <troy_s> -label lets you put in a filename under each image in the contact sheet
[10:13] <Tessa> hmm, its not giving me an output file. does it create the output file automatically ot do i have to specify one?
[10:13] <troy_s> %f is an escape sequence indicating 'filename'
[10:13] <troy_s> oops
[10:13] <troy_s> no output :)
[10:13] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 48 -tile 20 -label %f -frame 2 files.png contacsheet.png
[10:13] <troy_s> that's better
[10:13] <troy_s> sorry...
[10:14] <Tessa> dont worry. it still wont. maybe if i put the soecified files right after montage?
[10:14] <troy_s> no you shouldn't need to
[10:15] <troy_s> my syntax is probably botched somewhere... are they pngs?
[10:15] <Tessa> yes
[10:15] <Tessa> its resizing, mogrifying and tiling and montaging each to 100%
[10:15] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 48 -tile 20 -label %f -frame 2 *.png contactsheet.png
[10:15] <troy_s> yes the geometry handles the size
[10:16] <troy_s> what size are the sources?
[10:16] <troy_s> 48x48?
[10:16] <troy_s> icons?
[10:16] <Tessa> 128
[10:16] <Tessa> too large?
[10:16] <troy_s> so geometry will pull it down to 48
[10:16] <Tessa> it seems it should work fine then, no?
[10:16] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 48 -tile 20 -label %f -frame 2 *.png contactsheet.png
[10:17] <troy_s> that SHOULD
[10:17] <troy_s> is that what you are using?
[10:17] <Tessa> montage -monitor -geometry 48 -tile 20 -label %f -frame 2 *.png contactsheet.png
[10:17] <troy_s> try getting rid of the clutter for now...
[10:17] <troy_s> try
[10:17] <Tessa> exactly the same
[10:17] <troy_s> montage -monitor -geometry 48 *.png contactsheet.png
[10:17] <troy_s> and see if that works
[10:18] <troy_s> erk by the way
[10:18] <troy_s> once you create a contact sheet in png format
[10:18] <troy_s> be careful
[10:18] <troy_s> because subsequent montages that grab *.png will montage the contact sheet into the mix
[10:18] <troy_s> ;)
[10:18] <Tessa> hmm. still no output file.
[10:19] <darkmatter> good afternoon to all
[10:19] <Tessa> good evening from germany
[10:19] <troy_s> greets darkmatter
[10:19] <darkmatter> hiya troy_s  Tessa
[10:19] <troy_s> Tessa: you are inside the dir with the pngs in question correct?
[10:19] <Tessa> right
[10:19] <Tessa> i checked that 3 times
[10:19] <troy_s> and monitor is showing output?
[10:20] <troy_s> as in grabbing the files and scaling them etc?
[10:20] <Tessa> yes
[10:20] <troy_s> and when it poops you back out to the command line
[10:20] <troy_s> did you try typing
[10:20] <troy_s> display contactsheet.png
[10:20] <troy_s> display is a handy little cmd line xviewer proggie that comes with imagemagick.
[10:20] <Tessa> troy_s: alright you got me
[10:21] <Tessa> there it is
[10:21] <troy_s> did i lose you?
[10:21] <troy_s> ahh... :)
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[10:21] <Tessa> no i lost myself ;)
[10:21] <troy_s> it is always the devil in the tiny details.
[10:21] <troy_s> greets msikma
[10:21] <Tessa> anyway troy_s thank you really a lot for this lesson!
[10:21] <troy_s> what i will tend to do if i am batching is make sure that the output contact sheet gets jettisonned
[10:21] <troy_s> to a sep dir
[10:21] <troy_s> so that you don't end up embedding the contact sheets into the image by accident.
[10:22] <troy_s> Tessa: No problem.  Just spread the word about imagemagick.
[10:22] <troy_s> If you are a photographer, the tools are indispensable.
[10:22] <Tessa> troy_s: i sure will do! its a great tool even though i ve seen just the surface (maybe not even that) yet
[10:22] <troy_s> Yep
[10:22] <troy_s> Believe me, you will learn ways of wrapping the params up to get all sorts of power.
[10:23] <Tessa> a lot to learn untill this day i guess, but judging from what ive seen so far it is sure worth the time.
[10:23] <Tessa> thanks troy_s and have a nice rest of the day
[10:24] <troy_s> No problem.
[10:24] <Tessa> good night everyone
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