2011/06/29/#ubuntu-community-team.txt

[00:34] <paultag> rrnwexec: Sorry for all the RE:, you've got some mail :)
[00:35] <rrnwexec> @paultag. Thank you sir :)
[00:35] <paultag> rrnwexec: not at all, please! Thanks for getting this together! :)
[00:37] <pleia2> rrnwexec: I'll get to mine too, it's just been a busy couple of weeks ;)
[00:37] <paultag> pleia2: yeah, I've really been slacking on getting stuff turned in lately :)
[00:37] <paultag> damn you, workload!
[00:38] <rrnwexec> @pleia2. Thank you, and I understand 100% :)
[00:38] <pleia2> paultag: haha, actually I've gotten *a ton* done, just my todo list keeps growing to match :)
[00:38] <paultag> pleia2: I was at inbox0 for a glorious 2 days
[00:38] <paultag> I had to keep it u p, but it finally started growing again
[00:38] <pleia2> I think the closest I've ever gotten is under 20 :)
[00:38] <paultag> pleia2: this was the first inbox0 in over 10 months :)
[00:38] <pleia2> in love with taskwarrior though
[00:39] <paultag> pleia2: yar. I'm going to work on something where I can forward emails as tasks to my server
[00:39] <paultag> pleia2: then just ditch the idea of saving things in my inbox as "tasks"
[00:40] <pleia2> paultag: nixternal wrote a mutt thing to add emails as tasks, just need to snag your gmail as imap into mutt on the server
[00:40] <paultag> pleia2: I did that for kicks a bit back, but mutt was getting me peeved
[00:40] <pleia2> ah ok :)
[00:40] <pleia2> <3 mutt
[00:41] <paultag> I'm not sold yet
[00:41] <pleia2> imap is slow though
[00:41] <paultag> +1 there
[00:41] <paultag> I need to figure out how to use vim as my email client
[00:41] <pleia2> pfft, mutt is practically vim
[00:41] <paultag> split an "inbox queue" on the bottom, use :* shortcuts to navigate and just use the editor it's self to type
[00:41] <paultag> meh :)
[00:42] <pleia2> you just need a better .muttrc!
[00:42] <paultag> oh pfft, the story of my life
[00:42] <pleia2> haha
[00:42] <paultag> I spend *hours* on .*rc files, then end up loosing them
[00:42] <pleia2> backups++
[00:43] <paultag> pleia2: I've since moved all my core rc files to Dropbox and ln'd them on my installs
[00:43] <pleia2> nice :)
[00:43] <paultag> also helps keep things in sync, which is cool
[00:43] <paultag> same with my .face and stuff too
[01:37] <technoviking> jcastro: is there a public ppa for installing etherpad on a Ubuntu server?
[01:54] <paultag> Man, I wish there was a way to jam over the internet. Too bad the lag borks that :(
[01:54] <paultag> I need someone to jam with, I'm itching for a solid session
[01:55] <paultag> I bet midi-jamming would be easy (thems small payloads), but I mean full on jam
[02:50] <mhall119> omg, everything on my plate right now has been deep fried
[02:52] <paultag> mhall119: eww
[02:52] <paultag> deep fat fried food is just an excuse to hide what you're cooking with
[02:52] <paultag> not to mention it coats the whole mouth with a nasty fat film
[02:54] <james_w> technoviking, https://launchpad.net/~etherpad/+archive/ppa
[02:54] <technoviking> james_w: thanks!
[02:55] <head_victim> I'm a deep fried junkie, I refuse to own one on the basis that if I did everything would be deep fried.
[02:55] <Cheri703> paultag: you're using the wrong fats then
[02:55] <paultag> head_victim: it's so gross
[02:56]  * Cheri703 uses actual pure lard to fry things (though granted not DEEP FRIED often)
[02:56] <paultag> Cheri703: I know how to fry without having it suck up fat, but I have a feeling mhall119's version of deep fried is not similar to how I fry things
[02:56] <Cheri703> true
[02:56] <head_victim> paultag: you haven't lived until you've deep fried frozen pizza ;)
[02:56] <Cheri703> but it does come down to proper fats
[02:56] <paultag> Cheri703: I like soy or canola, but only just enough to get away with the fry, I hate having fat on my food (added)
[02:57] <paultag> but most things fried can be toyed with in other ways
[02:57] <Cheri703> I find that lard actually comes out much lighter, not so thick or sticky as vegetable based oils
[02:57] <Cheri703> I made the most AMAAAAAZING home fries with lard and my cast iron skillet...yuuummmm
[02:57] <paultag> Cheri703: see, you can roast that with the same effect
[02:57] <paultag> with a bit of rosemary
[02:57] <Cheri703> no, not with the crisp that it had
[02:58] <Cheri703> yeah, I can roast potatoes, but there is a different texture
[02:58] <paultag> Cheri703: if you deep fry potato it goes bitter
[02:58] <Cheri703> I didn't deep fry them
[02:58] <Cheri703> lard has a bad rap
[02:58] <Cheri703> it's actually more healthy for you than a lot of the vegetable based oils (depending on use)
[02:58] <paultag> I refuse to have it in my kitchen, until I can rationalize it
[02:58] <paultag> and I can't
[02:59] <paultag> I really don't like oil-ey fat-ey foods, at all.
[02:59] <Cheri703> I don't use it that often, but when I do fry things, they come out MUCH nicer with lard than with vegetable or even olive oil
[02:59] <paultag> Cheri703: olive oil has a way low smoke point, it's hard to fry with
[02:59] <Cheri703> also it's better than shortening
[02:59] <Cheri703> yeah
[02:59] <Cheri703> I'm just saying, cooking in general
[02:59] <paultag> yar
[02:59] <Cheri703> lard > other oils
[03:00] <paultag> olive oil > *
[03:01] <Cheri703> do some research, lard is actually fairly good for you (as far as fats go)
[03:01] <Cheri703> :)
[03:01]  * Cheri703 has read up on it
[03:01] <mhall119> paultag: if you fry it right, in hot oil, it doesn't absorb much at all
[03:01] <paultag> Cheri703: I can't justify it at all
[03:01] <Cheri703> and I get it from a butcher, vs the partially hydrogenated crap from the grocery store
[03:02] <Cheri703> it's cheap too...I get it for a dollar per pound
[03:03] <Cheri703> paultag: you come over sometime when you're in ohio, I'll cook you something :) I'm no paula deen with her butter, but it is good if used properly
[03:04] <paultag> Cheri703: and I'll cook you something with less then a few teaspoons of olive oil
[03:04] <paultag> :)
[03:04] <Cheri703> most of my food doesn't have lard in it...I'm just saying *if* I fry, I use lard ;) /me needs a pic of that guy from the dos equis commercials...
[03:04] <paultag> :P
[03:05] <paultag> I just made the most awesome dessert tonight
[03:05] <Cheri703> yeah?
[03:05] <cjohnston> paultag: send me some
[03:05] <paultag> sweet gnocchi with a maple butter sauce (but only a bit under it)
[03:06] <paultag> they are made with sweet potatos, brown sugar, cinnamon and love
[03:06] <mhall119> paultag: come down to Orlando next UDS, and I'll feed you a meal that'll take 10 years off your life, but be worth 20
[03:06] <paultag> came out pretty good
[03:06] <paultag> mhall119: I'll match you, man, you'll get those 10 years back :)
[03:06] <mhall119> you know, that might actually work out
[03:07] <paultag> :)
=== daker_ is now known as daker
[12:25] <dholbach> nigelb, is the jam already underway?
[12:30] <nigelb> dholbach: I'm at work now. Will get it up and running in about 2 hours when I get home
[12:31] <dholbach> nigelb, ok, I just posted it on the ubuntudev accounts again
[12:32] <nigelb> cool
[12:32] <nigelb> let me poke tumbleweed too
[12:33] <dholbach> awesome
[12:38] <daker> dholbach, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/how-to-broadcast-your-ubuntu-desktop-and-more-on-ustream-justin-tv-etc/
[12:39] <dholbach> sweet, I'll take a look daker
[12:39] <daker> ツ
[14:17] <jcastro> popey: sorry I missed you
[14:18] <jcastro> you guys did manage to ring once though? weird
[14:29] <nigelb> heh, just saw someone refer to pleia2 as leia in an email :D
[14:29] <popey> jcastro: a few times yeah
[14:29] <jcastro> odd, never rang more than once
[14:29] <jcastro> fml
[14:29] <jcastro> popey: I'll find a way to make it up to you
[14:31] <popey> hah
[14:31] <nigelb> Now popey gets to get jcastro to do anyting for him!
[14:32] <jcastro> it's the power of the sideys
[14:42] <nhandler> nigelb: Well, pleia2 is a nickname standing for princess leia, so just calling her 'leia' is just shortening it more ;)
[14:43] <popey> jcastro: am I right in saying that right now 11.10 today has Unity built against GNOME 3 libs?
[14:43] <nigelb> nhandler: heh
[14:43] <jcastro> popey: yes and no
[14:43] <jcastro> it is in trunk gtk3 afaik but not sure if that's been uploaded to one eyed rick.
[14:43] <jcastro> let me go find out.
[14:44] <popey> ta
[14:46] <jcastro> popey: 100% tonight
[14:46] <jcastro> only the panel remains
[14:46] <jcastro> the rest is there
[14:47] <nigelb> jcastro: you should tweet that!
[14:47] <jcastro> when it's done. :)
[14:52] <popey> thank you
[14:58] <nigelb> I'm curious, isn't .deb file just an archive?
[14:58] <popey> "just an archive"
[14:59] <nigelb> with some extra meta data in debian folder, but yeah.
[14:59] <popey> yes
[14:59] <popey> you can unpack it with "ar -x file.deb"
[15:00] <nigelb> In that case, I don't understand the reason for deb-extract (planet)
[15:03] <nhandler> nigelb: It has a few other archives inside it. This probably extracts those as well
[15:03] <nigelb> nhandler: ah, thanks
[15:03] <nhandler> s/archives/archives\/compressed files/
[15:05] <popey> dholbach: you can get chat logs for ustream sessions by pointing your irc client at c.ustream.tv
[15:05] <popey> dholbach: and join the channel, then log that
[15:06] <nigelb> popey: wow, that's neat
[15:06] <dholbach> ah ok, cool
[15:07] <nigelb> dholbach: I just used the old recipies for updating a package (for work), they are super easy and neatly written :)
[15:08] <dholbach> nice
[15:08] <nigelb> This one, to be precise https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Updating_an_Ubuntu_Package
[15:12] <popey> dholbach: also, that webcamstudio is worth a look, but quite painful to use
[15:12] <popey> IMO
[15:13] <dholbach> yeah, I'll have a look at it
[15:13] <kim0> yeah that's the one I had mentioned
[15:13] <popey> there are other ways to do it in hardware which are more robust/reliable
[15:13] <popey> but require you to have more than one computer
[15:13] <popey> e.g. video capture card
[15:22] <nhandler> popey: I added that as a comment on the blog already ;)
[15:23]  * popey shuts up
[15:25]  * nhandler just can't let popey take away from potential dholbach hugs ;)
[15:25]  * dholbach hugs you all :-)
[15:26]  * nigelb hugs everyone too ::)
[16:59] <czajkowski> jono: cjohnston mhall119 call ?
[16:59] <cjohnston> afaik
[17:00] <mhall119> waiting to be invited
[17:00] <jono> czajkowski, cjohnston, mhall119, nigelb, call now?
[17:00] <czajkowski> yup
[17:00] <cjohnston> jono: I can't skype
[17:00] <jono> cjohnston, msg me your num
[17:03] <nigelb> o/
[17:04] <cjohnston> daker:are you on skype?
[17:11] <nigelb> jono: has the call started?
[17:14] <jono> nigelb, yep
[17:14] <nigelb> jono: can you add me in?
[17:14] <jono> nigelb, one sec
[17:23] <jono> nigelb, you are breaking up too much
[17:23] <jono> we cant understand you
[17:24] <nigelb> mhall119: okay, I wanted to state that we need postfix installed on that machine and we ned to clear that with IS
[17:24] <nigelb> jono: ^^
[17:24] <nigelb> Like, having an email server there and having it send out emails
[17:32] <paultag> nigelb: so I did not sleep last night
[17:32] <nigelb> paultag: join the club!
[17:32] <paultag> nigelb: check this out, though
[17:32] <paultag> nigelb: I did something productive
[17:32] <nigelb> paultag: what did you hack
[17:33] <nigelb> (that was my next question)
[17:34] <paultag> nigelb: I came up with a logo for my LLC
[17:34] <nigelb> \o/
[17:34] <paultag> nigelb: http://me.pault.ag/logoage.png ← rough cut
[17:34] <nigelb> paultag: did you come up with a name?
[17:34] <paultag> nigelb: no, but I'm going to play off my last name
[17:34] <nigelb> nice!
[17:35] <paultag> with some fancy swiss font (Helvetica or something) in the black part (or blue, eventually, I think)
[17:35] <mhall119> paultag: you have an LLC?
[17:35] <nigelb> mhall119: he's starting one
[17:35] <paultag> mhall119: I need to set one up to block off consulting work I think i'm engaging in in the next few weeks
[17:36] <paultag> mhall119: I can't do it as myself, since that ties personal assets to the consulting, which is a bad thing (tm)
[17:36] <mhall119> yeah
[17:36] <paultag> mhall119: so I'll get the work as me, but then have them sign the LLC into an agreement / SOW
[17:36] <paultag> mhall119: so I figure I might as well do a logo to put on invoices and stuff
[17:37] <paultag> (my last name means cut mountain in italian)
[17:41] <paultag> mhall119: I was considering Bit Chin, LLC
[17:41] <paultag> (bitchin)
[17:41] <nigelb> heh
[17:42] <mhall119> lol
[17:42] <paultag> Syn Tacks is already taken, which is lame
[17:42] <mhall119> "Cut Mountain" actually sounds like a pretty good general consulting company name
[17:42] <paultag> Metalithikos is pretty rad, I think I came up with that drunk, but it's just so greek and so lame
[17:42] <paultag> mhall119: humm, you have a point
[17:43] <nigelb> mhall119: Totally
[17:44] <nhandler> paultag: Sounds like you were a bit more productive than I was last night. I just wrote a basic clock script for some people: http://nhandler.com/cgi-bin/clock.pl?tz=America/Los_Angeles&color=218,165,32
[17:44] <paultag> mhall119: nigelb: http://me.pault.ag/tag.png ← what do you think
[17:44] <paultag> nhandler: that's actually still badass
[17:44] <paultag> nhandler: in perl, but badass
[17:45] <mhall119> everything in perl is badass
[17:45] <nhandler> paultag: I like that tag.png
[17:45] <mhall119> paultag: I like it
[17:45] <paultag> thanks nhandler :)
[17:45] <nigelb> paultag: I liek it too
[17:45] <paultag> well that's really cool
[17:45] <paultag> that might actually work out
[17:45] <nhandler> The Perl script is actually fairly short and sweet. Although, it requires DateTime and GD, so it is a bit bloated in that regard
[17:46] <nhandler> They are using it on http://www.freenode-windows.org/about/about-us
[17:46] <paultag> nhandler: aye
[17:47] <paultag> I remember when UBT'ers droped idet and raided ##windows, damn near kicked them all
[17:47] <paultag> I guess it was just UFBT then
[17:48]  * nhandler faintly remembers that
[17:49] <nigelb> lol
[17:49] <paultag> classic
[17:49] <pleia2> wow, that one must have been before my time
[17:50] <nhandler> dholbach: Thanks for all of those edits. You reminded me that I still need to write a script for my session
[17:50] <nhandler> pleia2: Yep
[17:50] <paultag> pleia2: yeah a bit :)
[17:50] <dholbach> nhandler, it's hard work getting people to commit to giving sessions :)
[17:50] <paultag> pleia2: I was not an ubuntu member yet, I remember unsigning the CoC, then re-signing it after I did that
[17:50] <nhandler> dholbach: I know all too well
[17:51] <nhandler> paultag: Somehow, I doubt that counts
[17:51] <paultag> nhandler: me too :)
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
[18:08] <greg-g> why does the Canonical blog show up as the "Ubuntu Cloud Portal" on planet.ubuntu.com?
[18:11] <greg-g> kim0: ^^ ? :)
[18:12] <pleia2> I think the proper question is why are blog.canonical.com feeds showing up in the cloud.ubuntu.com rss feed http://cloud.ubuntu.com/tag/planet/feed/
[18:12] <pleia2> s/feeds/posts
[18:12] <greg-g> aha! that is the proper question
[18:21] <czajkowski> gah twice in one day
[18:21] <czajkowski> people interviewing me have mailed at 5 mins before the time to put it out by an hr
[18:21] <maco> good thing it wasnt just the first one or they'd have collided?
[18:22] <czajkowski> no  but annoying as I'm hungry and need to go lie in the pool
[18:23] <greg-g> mmmm, pool, that sounds pleasent!
[18:24] <AlanBell> interview from the pool
[18:24] <greg-g> +1
[18:25] <greg-g> btw, AlanBell, thanks for sharing that libreoffice slide template with the natty theme/colors. I used it the other day and loved it.
[18:27] <AlanBell> yay
[18:27] <AlanBell> spreadubuntu is great
[18:28] <greg-g> :)
[18:29] <czajkowski> greg-g: free for a quick pm ?
[18:30] <greg-g> czajkowski: I was just packing up for a meeting :/ email?
[18:31] <czajkowski> I already did...
[18:31] <czajkowski> was just following up on it
[18:31] <czajkowski> no worries
[18:31] <greg-g> oh, heh, the gift one?
[18:31] <czajkowski> yes
[18:44] <czajkowski> ok now a difficulty rininging  a UK number from USA
[18:44] <czajkowski> come on
[18:44] <czajkowski> STARVING
[18:44] <czajkowski> and need to pee
[18:44] <czajkowski> not a good combination to go on the phone
[18:45] <czajkowski> popey: ping
[20:00] <nhandler> The google+ hangout feature looks rather cool.
[20:07] <Pici> I'm looking forward to trying it out.
[20:08] <AlanBell> I am still struggling to get the hang of facebook
[20:13] <AlanBell> facebook makes unity look easy to use
[20:15] <Pici> hah
[20:16] <AlanBell> trying to get a page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ubuntu-UK/237328659623076 to look at an RSS feed
[20:16] <AlanBell> I have no clue how to do it after an hour or so of looking
[20:16] <popey> hah
[20:16] <popey> would you like me to look at it?
[20:16] <AlanBell> yeah
[20:17] <AlanBell> frustrating thing is I think I have done it for my own profile somehow in the past
=== daker is now known as daker_
[20:18] <AlanBell> note.php seems to be the file that does it
[20:19] <popey> https://www.facebook.com/editnotes.php
[20:19] <popey> thats where you add the url of the rss feed
[20:20] <popey> which you get to from notes.php -> editing import settings (bottom left)
[20:20] <AlanBell> ah, so use facebook as the page, then go to that url
[20:21] <popey> or just navigate to ubuntuuk page and then click "edit info" at teh top
[20:21] <popey> then apps -> notes
[20:21] <popey> then as above
[20:21]  * popey goes to get food
[20:23] <AlanBell> ahh, "goto application" rather than "edit settings"
[20:25] <jussi> facebook is of the devil...
[20:26] <AlanBell> it is
[20:26] <AlanBell> I don't understand how real people use it
[20:27] <AlanBell> I totally get the FBML architecture and how to make apps for the platform
[20:27] <AlanBell> just don't understand the UI
[20:29] <AlanBell> and the recursive marketing logic, "you need a facebook page to promote what you are doing" "great, how do I get people to like it?" "you need to run competitions and promotions to get people to like your facebook page"
[20:29] <czajkowski> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[20:29]  * AlanBell spies a happy czajkowski 
[20:29] <czajkowski> :D
[20:34] <nigelb> I now read czajkowski's IRC chatter in her accent.
[20:35] <Pici> nigelb: just insert 'oi' at the start of every line.
[20:35] <Pici> :P
[20:36] <nigelb> heh
[20:37] <Pici> I tend to subconsciously start mimicing people's accents when I talk with them.
[20:48] <maco> me too
[20:48] <maco> i think by the time amber gets to her second sentence ive already got a bit of hers picked up
[20:50] <maco> at southeast linuxfest one of the guys asked something to which my answer included the word "shawl" ... "where are you from?" "pittsburgh" "but you just shawl like...like you're from here" "i'm a sponge" "oh, yeah, thatd do it. i'm not. i always sound like this"
[20:50] <maco> *just said shawl
[20:50] <paultag> maco: the 'burgh accent is nuts
[20:51] <paultag> gah dawn dah by dem bridge
[20:54] <maco> get at the hass an go dantan
[20:55] <maco> huh. i do say go as gah if i'm not thinking about it
[20:56] <maco> well at least if front of dahn
[20:56] <maco> in front of "out" id say "go" properly
[20:56] <maco> its like "i'm good" versus "g'night"
[20:56] <popey> Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee HAW!
[20:56] <maco> popey: want an arn and a chipped ham sandwich?
[20:57] <maco> paultag: did you understand what i said?
[20:58]  * maco forgets where paultag is from
[21:00] <maco> also:  https://twitter.com/#!/lizaphillips/statuses/86158998092513281  QFT
[21:23] <paultag> maco: sorry, had to run :) aye I totally understood
[21:23] <paultag> maco: all my friends at college were from Pitt, so I can speak pittsburghese
[21:23] <paultag> I do laundray
[21:23] <czajkowski> reading http://valerieaurora.org/howto_salary/x40.html  rather interesting
[21:23] <czajkowski> and makes lots of valid points
[21:23] <paultag> dantan, so good
[21:35] <paultag> czajkowski: I don't understand why that's "for woman", the advice is global
[21:36] <paultag> czajkowski: and I have a feeling if I wrote a "for men" version of that, people would roundly call me some chauvinist pig
[21:36] <paultag> that's kinda lame
[21:36] <paultag> that should be a "for programmers"
[21:37] <paultag> :(
[21:37] <AlanBell> we write stuff "for ubuntu users"
[21:38] <AlanBell> which could totally apply to other linuxes and operating systems
[21:38] <paultag> AlanBell: I don't, and if I do, it's for an ubuntu-local function
[21:38] <paultag> like locos
[21:38] <AlanBell> I did a course on python in #ubuntu-classroom
[21:38] <AlanBell> my target audience was ubuntu users
[21:39] <paultag> AlanBell: and I'm sure you went over installation, with apt, and our policy in Ubuntu on python
[21:39] <AlanBell> nope
[21:39] <paultag> AlanBell: then it's for linux users, if that
[21:39] <paultag> mac and windows could learn as well
[21:39] <AlanBell> all but the very very last bit would have worked fine on windows
[21:39] <AlanBell> but my target audience was linux users
[21:40] <czajkowski> paultag: because in many cases women may not feel like arguing for a pay rise and would rather take the job and get the foot in the door and then work their way up
[21:40] <czajkowski> where as a guy may be more bolchy about it
[21:40] <czajkowski> paultag: put it this way
[21:40] <paultag> czajkowski: that's not true
[21:40] <paultag> czajkowski: that's a sterotype
[21:40] <czajkowski> paultag: I'd happily kick your arse left right and center
[21:40] <czajkowski> ask me to name a salary and I'd be a lot shyer
[21:40] <paultag> czajkowski: I'll kick your arse if you don't see that's a double standard
[21:41] <czajkowski> possibly should not be saying this on this channel#
[21:41] <czajkowski> paultag: either way I'd still win in kicking your arse
[21:41] <czajkowski> ;)
[21:41] <paultag> look, I'm totally for equality, let's just be consistant :)
[21:41] <paultag> czajkowski: ♥
[21:41] <czajkowski> I amm
[21:41] <czajkowski> I would consistantly kick your arse and win
[21:41] <czajkowski> how's that
[21:41] <nhandler> I'd pay to watch that show czajkowski :)
[21:41] <paultag> :P
[21:42] <paultag> nhandler: I have a feeling there are many who'd pay good money for that
[21:42] <czajkowski> .away
[21:42] <AlanBell> good idea :)
[21:42] <czajkowski> 2 interviews in 1 day is not a good idea
[21:42] <czajkowski> my brain is fried
[21:43] <paultag> czajkowski: I hear ya
[21:43] <maco> paultag: have you read Women Don't Ask? there's actually stats showing its not just a stereotype
[21:43] <AlanBell> czajkowski: alcohol improves the brain
[21:43] <maco> though it does include the fun stat that when women DO ask they're more likely to have the job offer retracted than men
[21:44] <maco> (probably something about being uppity...)
[21:44] <paultag> that may just be good ole' fashond sexism
[21:44] <paultag> I'm saying that men can be just as shy, and often are
[21:44] <paultag> sexism is still very very present, and I totally get that
[21:44] <maco> but in general, statistically, women are more likely to low-ball or to accept the initial offer than men
[21:44] <maco> sure there are people on the ends of curves, but thats always the case
[21:45] <paultag> maco: I'm sure there are similar stats for situations where there's an oppressed minority as well
[21:47] <maco> paultag: the stat isnt just for tech
[21:47] <paultag> maco: oh, no, I totally get it, I totally see your point, and we agree
[21:47] <paultag> maco: I'm just saying her points are great, and apply just as well to men
[21:47] <paultag> maco: and putting it as "advice for woman" puts me off
[21:47] <maco> sure, they're good negotiating tips in general
[21:47] <paultag> I'm sure you can see that
[21:48] <maco> its just that you're more likely to have picked 'em up
[21:48] <paultag> I'm sure :)
[21:48] <maco> so you probably don't actually need to be *told* them all flat-out, unlike someone who grew up being told "good little girls aren't greedy, don't ask for too much"
[21:49]  * AlanBell doesn't think that matters
[21:49] <paultag> maco: aye
[21:49] <AlanBell> I don't think the author gives a crap that you were put off by the focus on women
[21:50] <paultag> AlanBell: I don't think so either
[21:50] <paultag> AlanBell: I'm a piggish man
[21:50] <AlanBell> me too, oink
[21:50] <maco> AlanBell: i thought you were a rooster
[21:50] <paultag> who is clearly sexist and hates woman because of deep seated social gender-normaty
[21:50] <AlanBell> maco: don't make me make cock jokes :)
[21:50] <paultag> AlanBell: ha! :)
[21:51]  * AlanBell wonders if this conversation will meander back to on-topicness
[21:52] <maco> paultag: good imitation of a troll there, with the not-plural-form "woman" in a case where it calls for plural
[21:52] <paultag> maco: womyn :)
[21:52] <czajkowski> paultag: I_will_kick_your_ASS!
[21:52] <czajkowski> are we clear
[21:53] <paultag> czajkowski: hey, it's the correct spelling
[21:53] <maco> (srsly, you can pretty much tell a troll by them not knowing that woman has a separate plural form....which i guess is because we're all one hive mind?)
[21:53] <paultag> maco: special snowflake!!!
[21:53] <paultag> the hive looks down upon deveation
[22:02] <AlanBell> maco: can you join -uk
[22:02] <maco> need someone to translate american to british?
[22:02] <paultag> for the record, yes, I'm kidding.
[22:02] <paultag> maco: oi! I've been watching lots of brit sitcoms, I'm getting good :)
[22:03] <maco> paultag: between Doctor Who and a british ex, i've got some practice :P
[22:03] <paultag> maco: :)
[22:26] <nigelb> and paultag sends out RFC.
[22:26] <nigelb> I knew this would happen some day.
[22:29] <czajkowski> yup want to kick his arse up and down
[22:29] <czajkowski> up and down
[22:29] <czajkowski> up
[22:29] <czajkowski> and
[22:29] <czajkowski> down
[22:30] <czajkowski> paultag: so help me you are going to drive me to a bottle of JD and there is none in the apt
[22:30] <czajkowski> I may have to steal the bf stash of stuff
[22:30] <cjohnston> How can I add a /16
[22:30] <cjohnston> uggh
[22:32] <paultag> czajkowski: :)
[22:33] <nigelb> czajkowski: I will gladly help you kick paultag.
[22:33] <nigelb> :)
[22:33] <paultag> hehehe, tons of people would love to kick me
[22:34] <nigelb> yay, language-based loco teams
[22:35] <czajkowski> no langauge based teams
[22:35] <czajkowski> not loco teams
[22:35] <czajkowski> language teams are part of a loco team
[22:35] <czajkowski> but not seperate
[22:35] <paultag> where did you read this?
[22:36] <nigelb> paultag: reply to your mail.
[22:36] <paultag> nigelb: crud, it's going to blow up I can tell
[22:37] <nigelb> paultag: Of course.
[22:37] <nigelb> You have idea how much discussion went into this at UDS.
[22:37] <nigelb> We lost a session thanks to this argument.
[22:37] <paultag> hehehe
[22:38] <czajkowski> nigelb: even better if the LC had been added to the discussion or added to a blueprint or told it was being had in advance..
[22:38] <nhandler> This has been discussed on and off for years
[22:38] <czajkowski> we get landed with the work :)
[22:38] <paultag> OK, I'm off for dinner
[22:38] <paultag> I love you all dearly
[22:38] <nigelb> czajkowski: a sesson got hijacked actually :(
[22:38] <czajkowski> paultag: nn
[22:38] <czajkowski> off to bed myself
[22:38] <paultag> czajkowski: nn, ttyl
[22:38] <nigelb> good lawd
[22:38] <nigelb> I should sleep!
[22:38] <paultag> nigelb: nn :)
[22:39] <paultag> /away!
[22:39] <nigelb> Nite paultag, czajkowski
[22:39] <nhandler> paultag: Out of curiosity, why are you calling it a LEP? Did I miss something? I know Debian uses DEPs, and I thought LEPs were for the LP folks (not Ubuntu)
[22:39]  * AlanBell headdesks at paultag's mail
[22:39]  * nhandler also debates replying to ask about ubuntu-chicago
[22:40] <cjohnston> paultag: I guess you need to get the other email out quick to squash this thing quick fast and in a hurry
[22:40] <czajkowski> nhandler: oh yeha ye have to change
[22:40]  * AlanBell observes that all the examples are about ubuntu-uk
[22:40] <czajkowski> hence why nixternal is gonna go mad at me
[22:40] <AlanBell> and how uk is the iso country code . . .
[22:40] <AlanBell> which it *isn't*
[22:40] <AlanBell> it is GB
[22:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: no there is an excetion popey pointed it out
[22:40] <AlanBell> but I don't want to change it
[22:40] <czajkowski> nhandler: ye ned to be the state name also
[22:40] <JanC> czajkowski: actually, language teams are often (semi-)independent to locoteams
[22:40] <czajkowski> folks
[22:41] <czajkowski> GOOD NIGHT
[22:41] <nigelb> heh
[22:41] <cjohnston> language teams are not local teams.. language teams are locale teams... and don't fit into loco teams
[22:42] <AlanBell> night czajkowski
[22:42] <JanC> cjohnston: it depends, some languages are local to one country, and then it's natural to have them as part of the locoteam
[22:42] <nhandler> The interesting thing is, Chicago really isn't a sub loco of the IL loco. The IL loco really doesn't exist at this point (not sure if it ever did).
[22:42] <rrnwexec> vancouver is not a sub of canada either ;)
[22:43] <rrnwexec> mind you, we're not 'official', so this might be a moot point
[22:43] <cjohnston> JanC: a Local team can't not be local... You cant have a local team that spans spain puerto rico, cuba and mexico
[22:43] <nhandler> rrnwexec: Well, there also appears to still be a CA loco. There is no IL loco (official or unofficial) at this point
[22:44] <cjohnston> Local teams are not language based.. they are location based
[22:44] <rrnwexec> i guess the point might be made that a loco team can and might stand independently. a team is a team.
[22:44] <cjohnston> You can't have  a physical event that people in Mexico, PR, and spain take part in
[22:45] <JanC> cjohnston: but in reality, some language/country combinations have so much overlap that having a separate team is not useful  ;)
[22:45] <cjohnston> A language team would be a translation team
[22:45] <cjohnston> Example please?
[22:46] <JanC> cjohnston: Italian or Danish or whatever ?
[22:46] <JanC> OTOH Dutch or French or Spanish or English are spoken in so many countries...
[22:46] <cjohnston> Italy would be a team.. Someone who speaks Italian in America would be an a US team...
[22:47] <cjohnston> Right.. That's why you have a location based team
[22:47] <JanC> cjohnston: how many people in in the US have Italian as their main language?  ;)
[22:47] <mhall119> in NY/NJ, could be lots
[22:48] <mhall119> oh dammit, now you've gotten me involved in this >:(
[22:48] <JanC> I'd expect they know Italian as a second language mainly
[22:48]  * mhall119 hates on paultag 
[22:48] <JanC> anyway, take Danish or whatever as an example instead
[22:49] <JanC> in case of Dutch, the translation team is semi-independent
[22:49] <cjohnston> JanC: local team.. not locale.. Why would a french canadian join the france team
[22:50] <cjohnston> That doesn't make any sense
[22:50] <JanC> cjohnston: many Dutch-speaking Belgians are part of the Dutch team, and many French-speaking Belgians are part of the French team
[22:51] <cjohnston> That's their choice.. But that doesn't make it a local team.. its still a locale team... and therefore not a loco team
[22:51] <JanC> we thibnk it's illy to set up our own suypport irc/forum/etc. infrastructure
[22:51] <JanC> we think it's silly *
[22:51] <cjohnston> you dont have to
[22:52] <JanC> we join both locoteams ;)
[22:52] <cjohnston> You can do like ubuntu-es... its a spanish language support channel.. you dont have to live in spain to join it
[22:52] <cjohnston> a locale team is not a loco team
[22:52] <JanC> to some degree, yes
[22:53] <JanC> in practice, things are a lot more blurry  ☺
[22:53] <cjohnston> thats what we are trying to fix
[22:53] <JanC> please don't
[22:53] <cjohnston> things shouldnt be blurry, and thats why "rules" are being put into place
[22:53] <JanC> fixing things to make them more complicated doesn't help...
[22:54] <cjohnston> Ok.. So you are a new user.. And you join a "Local Team" expecting to meet people who are Local... lets take a spanish speaking person in Mexico for example.. So they join Ubuntu espanol.. well that team doesnt ahv anyone near mexico
[22:54] <rrnwexec> my two cents: if it says Ubuntu <Team Name> LoCo, then it's golden.
[22:54] <rrnwexec> <Team Name> is just a label
[22:54] <mhall119> can we make this a "we're not going to force teams to rename, but please be kind and help the loco-directory look nicer by doing it voluntarily"?
[22:55] <JanC> cjohnston: if you are mexican, you'll probably join ubuntu-mx, which might point to the Spanish language forum
[22:55] <rrnwexec> Ubuntu MexicanLanguage LoCo
[22:56]  * AlanBell makes alternative suggestion
[22:56] <JanC> there is no mexican language AFAIK  ;)
[22:56] <rrnwexec> hee
[22:56] <AlanBell> never make me look at the big list of loco teams
[22:56] <JanC> or there are many
[22:56] <rrnwexec> i was being a little whimsical ;)
[22:56] <rrnwexec> Ubuntu Spanish LoCo perhaps :)
[22:57] <cjohnston> JanC: so why have a spanish team
[22:57] <cjohnston> and there is a mx team
[22:57] <JanC> the point is, the French help forum is run by the French loco, and the Dutch help forum is run by the Dutch loco
[22:58] <mhall119> AlanBell: you'll look at it, you'll look and it and you'll like it!
[22:58] <mhall119> or you'll get no dessert
[22:58] <JanC> so as Ubuntu Belgium, we point peopel to those resources  ;)
[22:58] <cjohnston> JanC: ok? thats fine.. you can use their forums.. but it isnt a "dutch speaking loco team"... there arent any english speaking loco teams
[22:59] <AlanBell> mhall119: don't wanna
[22:59] <mhall119> JanC: is there any reason the dutch locale team can't use the belgian loco team's IRC and ML?
[22:59] <cjohnston> nope
[22:59] <JanC> cjohnston: but the Dutch Locoteam is also the dutch-speaking locoteam, and similar for the French  ;)
[22:59] <mhall119> or why the belgian loco team can't use the dutch IRC and ML?
[22:59] <AlanBell> I want to click europe, then I want a map of europe then I want to click where my house is, then I am done
[23:00] <mhall119> AlanBell: code that up and we'll apply the patch
[23:00] <cjohnston> JanC: that is going to be changed.. as a locale team isnt a local team.. and its going to be defined
[23:00] <AlanBell> mhall119: ok
[23:00] <JanC> mhall119: the Dutch locale team has a separate mailing list, but uses the Dutch IRC channels for e.g. meetings
[23:00] <mhall119> JanC: okay
[23:00] <JanC> and they are in some ways part of the dutch locoteam
[23:01] <JanC> also using their wiki etc.
[23:01] <mhall119> so does the Belgian loco team also use those resources?
[23:01] <JanC> in some ways, the Belgian locoteam uses Dutch/French locoteam resources, yes  ;)
[23:02] <JanC> as I said before, things are blurry  :P
[23:02]  * cjohnston has to go.. dinner time
[23:02] <cjohnston> yes.. and we are unblurring
[23:02] <cjohnston> o/
[23:02] <JanC> no
[23:02] <JanC> pleasy don't
[23:02] <JanC> you'll make things complicated for us  :P
[23:02]  * AlanBell wonders who's problem this is all solving
[23:03] <JanC> well, I'm happy to listen to proposals
[23:04] <JanC> but I prefer rules that aren't too strict to be practical
[23:04] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Location_European_nation_states.svg so we start with something like this, make it clickable
[23:05] <AlanBell> do the same for the other continents
[23:06] <mhall119> AlanBell: who's gonna keep this up to date?
[23:06] <JanC> another example: the frysian team is (or will be) half part of the Dutch team and half independent
[23:06] <AlanBell> multiple countries sharing a common language click to the same place
[23:06] <AlanBell> mhall119: it is mostly a one-off excercise
[23:07] <JanC> AlanBell: where to click depends on what users want though  ☺
[23:08] <AlanBell> so click on belgium and it could ask you what you want
[23:08] <mhall119> what you want?
[23:08] <mhall119> you clicked on Belgium
[23:08] <JanC> something like that; if they want support vs. if they want to help promote Ubuntu
[23:08] <mhall119> doesn't that mean you want belgium?
[23:08] <AlanBell> mhall119: not neccessarily, no
[23:09] <AlanBell> Europe != America
[23:09] <JanC> mhall119: if you want support on a forum, IRC, mailing list; Ubuntu Belgium doesn't really provide that
[23:09] <mhall119> JanC: why not?
[23:09] <JanC> we point to ubuntu-nl/ubuntu-fr/ubuntu-de/etc. for that
[23:10] <AlanBell> however you could easily go click on holland if you want dutch, but happen to live over the border
[23:10] <JanC> mhall119: what's teh point of having our own support channels?
[23:10] <JanC> and splitting up knowledge?
[23:10] <mhall119> JanC: so you can meet up with people who need help
[23:11] <JanC> the best 1st line for support are the channels of ubuntu-nl/ubuntu-fr/etc.
[23:12] <mhall119> hmmm, I think the problem is how we view the purpose of loco teams
[23:12] <AlanBell> JanC: do you think a clickable map of europe could work?
[23:13] <JanC> AlanBell: if every locoteam can provide their own set of links after that, yes
[23:13] <AlanBell> technically it would be trivial to click on belgium and offer links to a few teams, or user could go back and click a different country if they want to identify with that
[23:14] <AlanBell> mhall119: the mapping of languages to countries in Europe is messy
[23:14] <AlanBell> and in fact everywhere
[23:14] <mhall119> AlanBell: yes
[23:14] <mhall119> all the more reason to stich with the less messy borders
[23:14] <AlanBell> I could totally see #ubuntu-us-tx-es happening
[23:15] <AlanBell> or a -us-hispanic loco
[23:16] <AlanBell> however I think clickable map would hide the names to the point where strict standardisation of the names is not much of an issue
[23:17] <mhall119> AlanBell: are you gonna make Palestine clickable?
[23:17] <JanC> right, clicking Texas could show the locoteam including sublocos, related locos, etc
[23:18] <AlanBell> mhall119: if the wikimedia commons map has it as a distinct entity then it would be clickable
[23:19] <mhall119> FYI, there are other borders/nations that are contentious
[23:19] <JanC> and if not, the Isreali & Palestine loco's will have to manage the links attached to it
[23:19] <mhall119> Kurdistan is another example that I think came up
[23:19] <mhall119> and Taiwan
[23:19] <AlanBell> that would be a yes
[23:20] <JanC> Kurdistan isn't considered independent by any nation AFAIK
[23:20] <mhall119> it's not
[23:21] <JanC> but Taiwan is (often under another name)
[23:22] <mhall119> AlanBell: I'm  just warning you, it's likely to come up for one of these
[23:23] <AlanBell> yeah, that is fine
[23:23] <AlanBell> I would deal with that by delegating border decisions to wikimedia commons
[23:23] <AlanBell> and if in doubt show the user both loco's in the area
[23:23] <mhall119> also, it's likely that countries will change on about an annual basis
[23:23] <AlanBell> bzr branch
[23:23] <AlanBell> merge request
[23:24] <AlanBell> done \o/
[23:24] <JanC> the US already has many locoteams, we could remove them too  ;-)
[23:24] <JanC> (j/k)
[23:24] <AlanBell> yeah, that would make it simpler :)
[23:25] <mhall119> JanC: except our loco teams are geographic
[23:25] <AlanBell> and a random combination of states and cities
[23:25] <mhall119> the only trouble they cause is having multiple per country
[23:25] <mhall119> yeah, the cities are mostly relics of the early community though
[23:25] <mhall119> they should probably get consumed by/expanded into state-wide teams
[23:25] <JanC> mhall119: right, but in some countries geographic makes less sense
[23:26] <mhall119> JanC: depends on what the purpose is
[23:26] <mhall119> if the purpose is finding people like you online, then probably not
[23:26] <mhall119> if the purpose is finding people near you, then it is
[23:27] <AlanBell> or some combination thereof
[23:27] <rrnwexec> @mhall119: I don't consider our city team a "relic". In fact we likely have more people than the country team that pre-dates us ;)
[23:27] <mhall119> for example, someone in Mexico might be interested in an #ubuntu-us-tx-es, but they won't likely be attending meetups in Texas
[23:27] <rrnwexec> and our goals are differnet.
[23:28] <mhall119> rrnwexec: what teams and how are they different?
[23:28] <JanC> IIRC there is an ubuntu-tamil team, that caters to speakers of that language in India (and maybe other countries?)
[23:28] <mhall119> JanC: great, but will that work for meetups?
[23:28] <AlanBell> if you are german/french/italian speaking swiss then it really isn't far to go over the border to find people to meet up with
[23:28] <AlanBell> and the border you want to go over depends on your favourite language
[23:28] <mhall119> AlanBell: that's great in the EU, where you can cross borders with ease
[23:28] <rrnwexec> @mhall: vancouver is a local team. canada is a national (dispersed) team.
[23:29] <AlanBell> exactly
[23:29] <JanC> mhall119: considering that ubuntu-in is not allowed "state" locoteams currently, I suppose it could be useful  :P
[23:29] <mhall119> rrnwexec: ah, yes, Canada is a huge country, even your provinces are really too big to be practical loco teams
[23:29] <JanC> as tamil is spoken mainly in soem states
[23:30] <rrnwexec> we cannot realistically grow a community at a national level. we need to start with neighbourhoods, towns, cities.
[23:30] <mhall119> JanC: IIRC, tamil is also spoken outside of India
[23:30] <rrnwexec> but for smaller countries and states it may work
[23:30] <JanC> mhall119: it is
[23:30] <mhall119> JanC: so can someone from one of those countries attend a meetup in India?
[23:31] <mhall119> rrnwexec: can't we just partition Canada some more?
[23:31]  * AlanBell decides to revoke America's declaration of independence
[23:31] <mhall119> :P
[23:31] <mhall119> AlanBell: try it, it didn't work out so well for you last time
[23:32] <rrnwexec> @mhall119: yes. i think the proposal i heard earlier makes sense. have a map that can drill down to the town level.
[23:32] <mhall119> rrnwexec: I'd like to have that, regardless of my stance on language teams
[23:32] <mhall119> like I told AlanBell, all I need is mergeable code
[23:32] <rrnwexec> language teams make clickability tricky for sure
[23:34] <JanC> mhall119: some dutch people come to belgian events when we announce them on the dutch channels
[23:34] <JanC> sometimes those events are closer for them than dutch events  ;)
[23:34] <mhall119> JanC: do you mean dutch people outside of Belgium?
[23:34] <JanC> yes
[23:35] <mhall119> because, unless I'm mistaken, "dutch" isn't a place
[23:35]  * AlanBell goes ewww at the way the current map is implemented
[23:35] <JanC> well "dutch" can refer to inhabitants of The Netherlands  :P
[23:35] <mhall119> right
[23:36] <mhall119> but again, it's hard to say "I'm far from dutch, but close to Belgium"
[23:36] <JanC> that's another thing!
[23:36] <JanC> "dutch" is an adjective
[23:37] <JanC> and "the dutch" means somebody from the Netherlands
[23:37] <mhall119> all the more reason for it not to be a loco team
[23:38] <JanC> the locoteam is ubuntu-nl, meaning both dutch & dutch-speaking  :P
[23:38] <JanC> (currently)
[23:39] <mhall119> or, meaning local to the Netherlands
[23:39] <JanC> well, yes & no, depending on the topic  :P
[23:40] <JanC> dutch as in local to the Netherlands + dutch as in dutch-speaking
[23:40] <mhall119> what might a topic look like that involved ubuntu-nl, but didn't involve the Netherlands?
[23:41] <JanC> e.g. from time to time we post announcements or requests for volunteers for events in Dutch-speaking Belgium on the ubuntu-nl forum
[23:42] <JanC> and in some cases, there is documentation about Belgium-specific things (like our e-ID)
[23:43] <AlanBell> fairly astonished at how that world map works
[23:43] <AlanBell> it uses this image http://loco.ubuntu.com/media//images/map.png
[23:44] <mhall119> JanC: does Belgium not have a loco team?
[23:44] <JanC> mhall119: we have !!
[23:44] <mhall119> so why doesn't that team host the events in Belgium?
[23:44] <JanC> most of us also work inside ubuntu-nl or ubuntu-fr though  ;)
[23:44] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/media//css/continents.css and this css file to move bits about when hovering
[23:45] <mhall119> JanC: which is great, Florida's loco is involved in events throughout the south eastern US
[23:45] <JanC> mhall119: we host events here, that's our main purpose, but finding new volunteers is often easier by using the existing channels
[23:46] <mhall119> JanC: I still don't understand why the Netherlands team can't promote an event in Belgium, without having to have a language team in the middle
[23:46] <mhall119> for example, the Florida team promoted among it's members the South East Linux Fest which was held in South Carolina
[23:47] <JanC> the language team is semi-independent and semi-dependent of ubuntu-nl  ;)
[23:47] <JanC> anyway, events don't involve the language team
[23:47] <JanC> except if translations are needed  :P
[23:48] <mhall119> JanC: it's not that we don't like language teams, but you can see how it's practically impossible to support them in the LD while still being useful to geographically local teams
[23:48] <JanC> I think AlanBell's proposal fixes that  ;)
[23:49] <JanC> make all locoteam relevant to a country manage the links that people see when they click their country
[23:49] <JanC> manage it together
[23:50] <AlanBell> http://testing.webdesignsarasota.com/europe-560px/
[23:51] <AlanBell> something like that we could do
[23:51] <AlanBell> we have jquery to use and a source of svg maps that would have all the right ids
[23:54]  * JanC should have gone to bed at least 1 hour ago
[23:54] <AlanBell> me too, night all o/
[23:54] <JanC> so, al, sleep wel  ☺
[23:54] <JanC> well
[23:55] <mhall119> night JanC and AlanBell
[23:56]  * JanC has to promote Ubuntu in the European Parliament tomorrow  :P
[23:59] <mhall119> \o/