| [11:10] <BluesKaj> Hey all | |
| === ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca | |
| === chuck_ is now known as zul | |
| [16:43] <dscassel_> Moo. | |
| === dscassel_ is now known as dscassel | |
| [17:18] <BluesKaj> How Now Brown Cow , dscassel :) | |
| [17:18] <BluesKaj> What's New With You ? | |
| [18:08] <dscassel> BluesKaj: Busy. Work, Kwartzlab... not a lot of Ubuntu stuff since the Global Jam, sadly. | |
| [18:11] <BluesKaj> desktop wars ? | |
| [18:59] <dscassel> You mean like Gnome vs Unity vs KDE? | |
| [18:59] <dscassel> ...vs Openbox vs LXDE vs monad... | |
| [19:00] <genii-around> Did I drop into the middle of a desktop environment debate? ;) | |
| [19:01] <dscassel> genii-around: twm forever! | |
| [19:03] <genii-around> Thats a pretty old one! When I first saw linux, the main desktops were twm, fvwm, enlightenment, .... kde was at version 1.2 | |
| [19:05] <BluesKaj> dscassel, no unity vs gnome3 vs gnome shell vs classic gnome vs .... who knows what :) | |
| [19:45] <cyphermox> dscassel: ratpoison! | |
| [19:54] <genii-around> I keep meaning to try that one... gui without a mouse sounds interesting | |
| [20:24] <dscassel> BluesKaj: Same thing. :) | |
| [20:25] <BluesKaj> no dscassel , I meant within gnome | |
| [20:25] <dscassel> cyphermox: I like the *idea* of tiling window managers, but I'm a bit too wedded to my mouse. | |
| [20:26] <cyphermox> make no mistake, I can't use it either | |
| [20:26] * cyphermox uses unity, and I consider it somewhat part of my contract to do so | |
| [20:26] <dscassel> I've been using a mouse since 1988. I *need* it. | |
| [20:26] <dscassel> cyphermox: heh. :) | |
| [20:26] <cyphermox> ;) | |
| [20:27] <cyphermox> although that goes along with using xubuntu and kubuntu :) | |
| [20:27] <dscassel> BluesKaj: Yeah, I know. I just roll my eyes, really. | |
| [20:27] <dscassel> People should use what they like. Full stop. | |
| [20:27] <cyphermox> absolutely | |
| [20:28] <cyphermox> just mentioning that all three installed at the same time on the same system is absolutely doable, and usually works pretty well | |
| [20:28] <dscassel> Yeah. | |
| [20:28] <cyphermox> with the exception that my notifications are horrendously disfigured in Unity if the xubuntu stuff is installed.. they start growing buttons and all | |
| [20:28] <dscassel> It looks like gnome-panel is going to be pretty stock standard, though. | |
| [20:29] <dscassel> It's a shame there's not an easy way to get back the "Classic" Ubuntu interface people are used to. | |
| [20:29] <dscassel> I'm sure that'll come, though. | |
| [20:29] <BluesKaj> yeah, I started , on the job with various instrument application control software that used guis ...and the lovely orange on black/blcak on orange monitor colours :) | |
| [20:29] <genii-around> It's making it hard to convince people to use Ubuntu | |
| [20:29] <cyphermox> oh, there is | |
| [20:30] <dscassel> genii-around: What is? That it changes? | |
| [20:30] <cyphermox> dscassel: install gnome-session-fallback; you get the "Classic" gnome thing, except it's the new fallback from gnome-shell, so it's the gnome-panel with clock in the middle and all of that | |
| [20:30] <dscassel> It'll stop changing soon. Transitions are hard. | |
| [20:30] <dscassel> cyphermox: Cool. | |
| [20:30] <genii-around> dscassel: Unity for desktop choice mostly | |
| [20:31] <dscassel> genii-around: I actually like Unity. So I scratch my head at that one. | |
| [20:31] <dscassel> I agree that presenting people with a choice straight off the bat is a turn-off. | |
| [20:32] <dscassel> People don't know what a "desktop environment" is, far less how to pick one. | |
| [20:33] <dscassel> The answer, I guess, is to talk to them first. Find out what they want. If they want to resurrect an old XP machine and don't like change, maybe lubuntu is the answer. | |
| [20:33] <genii-around> Heh, yes. | |
| [20:33] <dscassel> If they like flashy GUIs and Windows 7, maybe kubuntu. If they're a Mac fan, Unity. | |
| [20:33] <BluesKaj> a stable DE is best as default , not one that is as buggy as Unity | |
| [20:34] <dscassel> BluesKaj: cyphermox would be interested in any bugs you might have. | |
| [20:34] <cyphermox> probably, yes | |
| [20:34] <dscassel> 11.04 unity is a 1.0 release. | |
| [20:34] <dscassel> It's not going to stay buggy. | |
| [20:34] <cyphermox> even saying it's buggy tends to be usage specific | |
| [20:35] <dscassel> 11.04 unity users are, for better of for worse, beta testers. | |
| [20:35] <cyphermox> I found it was usable, despite the issues | |
| [20:35] <dscassel> I use it every day. Even now, it's much better on 11.04 than at release. | |
| [20:35] <genii-around> I couldn't get it on my netbook due to Intel graphics card | |
| [20:35] <BluesKaj> dscassel, I don't rub gnome ...anymore ...tried it, but from the queries on #ubuntu about unity fixes . it's not difficult to see Unity has a lot of bugs | |
| [20:36] <BluesKaj> run | |
| [20:36] <dscassel> I'm not going to begrudge anyone running KDE if that's what they prefer. | |
| [20:36] <dscassel> I'd hear it from txwikinger if I did anyway. :) | |
| [20:37] <txwikinger> dscassel: what did you do now? ;) | |
| [20:37] <dscassel> I'm telling people Unity isn't so bad. :) | |
| [20:38] * txwikinger does not give opinions on things he does not use | |
| [20:38] <dscassel> genii-around: Unity 2D is coming. Driver support for compiz isn't really unity's fault... | |
| [20:39] <genii-around> It's just frustrating, mostly. | |
| [20:39] <dscassel> Yeah. Beta testing often is. :) | |
| [20:39] * txwikinger thinks Gnome and Unity are going through the same user issue as KDE did when changing to KDE4 | |
| [20:44] * txwikinger wonders how long desktop wars will go on... aren't we getting into the age of the cloud? | |
| [20:45] <BluesKaj> google is working on that...wonder when it will be officilaly released | |
| [20:45] <txwikinger> Not only google | |
| [20:50] <BluesKaj> who else ? | |
| [20:51] <genii-around> Amazon for one | |
| [20:52] <BluesKaj> what does amazon call their cloud OS? | |
| [20:53] <cyphermox> Amazon allows you to choose the OS you put on the instances | |
| [20:53] <cyphermox> otherwise I guess it's just called AWS | |
| [20:53] <txwikinger> rackspace does a lot of cloud stuff | |
| [20:53] <txwikinger> Canadian Cloud Computing | |
| [20:55] <txwikinger> Well.. and then there is Ubuntu server with lots of cloud stuff | |
| [20:56] * txwikinger also does cloud stuff | |
| [21:02] <dscassel> Then there's tablets and smartphone OSes. | |
| [21:02] <dscassel> As I see it, everything is up for grabs. | |
| [21:02] <khoover> ...isn't cloud computing what people left behind to go to the desktop model? | |
| [21:03] <dscassel> The only thing for certain is computing a few years from now won't look anything like it does now. | |
| [21:03] <khoover> server-client? | |
| [21:03] <dscassel> khoover: It's the circle of life. :) | |
| [21:03] <khoover> dscassel, i dislike it already | |
| [21:04] <khoover> my hardware is my hardware, no sharing it with god knows how many other people. | |
| [21:05] <dscassel> khoover: I, for one, am glad that free software allows one to tailor their computing any way they want. :) | |
| [21:05] <dscassel> Mac users, for example, don't have the option of saying "Nuts to all this cloud stuff!" | |
| [21:05] <dscassel> They're getting it whether they like it or not. | |
| [21:06] <txwikinger> dscassel: No.. there was no cloud | |
| [21:06] <txwikinger> there was only one server | |
| [21:06] <khoover> dscassel, see, that i can agree on. | |
| [21:06] <txwikinger> and the communication lines were very expensive | |
| [21:07] <txwikinger> I think the cloud has a lot more opportunities for free software | |
| [21:07] <txwikinger> Most cloud stuff is linux | |
| [21:07] <khoover> txwikinger, weren't clients, for the most part, either local to the server or run over dial-up? | |
| [21:07] <dscassel> *nods* | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> khoover: well.. first it was always one server.. and dumm terminals | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> dumb | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> with very long lines | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> very slow.. very unreliable | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> well.. before that were punch cards actually | |
| [21:08] <txwikinger> even slower and even more unreliable | |
| [21:09] * txwikinger ask for a roll call who all has used the kermit terminal software before | |
| [21:09] <txwikinger> Or who has ever use EBSDIC | |
| [21:09] <txwikinger> +d | |
| [21:10] <khoover> in all likelihood, i wasn't born then. | |
| [21:10] <txwikinger> young crowd :D | |
| [21:11] <genii-around> txwikinger: Yes, used kermit :) | |
| [21:12] <txwikinger> genii-around: ;) | |
| [21:12] <genii-around> In fact our FreeNet server here still has CLI login for users where they can use Lynx, Pine, etc | |
| [21:12] <dscassel> txwikinger: I got on at vt100. | |
| [21:12] <txwikinger> kermit was fantastic.. implicit EBSDIC <-> ASCII conversion and everything | |
| [21:12] <dscassel> Probably vt220 or something, actually. | |
| [21:13] <txwikinger> dscassel: Ever wrote software for an IBM 360? | |
| [21:13] <genii-around> Bleh, batches | |
| [21:13] <dscassel> txwikinger: Nope. | |
| [21:13] <khoover> txwikinger, i believe i tried to make one in minecraft once. | |
| [21:13] <txwikinger> that was a drag.. those system call were criminal | |
| [21:13] <dscassel> All SunOS/Solaris in school. | |
| [21:14] <genii-around> Our school had a few cool old computers like a PDP9 and PDP11 | |
| [21:14] <txwikinger> Also. only block devices.. and those registers ... awful | |
| [21:14] <genii-around> Later on my other school had IRIX/SGI | |
| [21:15] <txwikinger> we were all happy when we got the first risc computer.. but we had to rewrite all the software to be able to run on risc | |
| [21:15] <khoover> sorry, i tried to make EDVAC in minecraft | |
| [21:15] <khoover> couldn't finish reading the specification. >_< | |