| === VampiricPadraig| is now known as VampiricPadraigT | |
| === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPada | |
| === VampiricPadraigT is now known as VampiricPadraig | |
| === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPadraigT | |
| === VampiricPada is now known as VampiricPadraig | |
| [13:57] <slashtom> do i detect a lack of enthusiasm? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/1278/detail/ | |
| [13:58] <slashtom> we could do with people signing up to this one if they're going to come along, as we need to book tables | |
| [14:01] <czajkowski> slashtom: harass on the ML I guess :/ | |
| [14:02] <slashtom> on the mailing list? | |
| [14:02] <slashtom> mike has already posted | |
| [14:02] <ebel> LD has a template / html / <table> display bug | |
| [14:03] <ebel> :P | |
| [14:03] <slashtom> i may report to the ILUG list in a couple of weeks | |
| [14:03] <slashtom> repost* | |
| [15:08] <tdr112> i will sign up when i get how , i dont have my password on this laptop | |
| [15:08] <tdr112> home | |
| [15:08] <tdr112> that is | |
| [15:09] <czajkowski> tdr112: ello hows the job this week | |
| [15:13] <tdr112> ok stoping at 6.30pm these days , had to work all weekend | |
| [15:18] <ebel> o_O | |
| [15:18] <ebel> sounds like you're working too hard. | |
| [15:18] <slashtom> tdr112: unless you're arriving into work at 11am, they're taking the piss | |
| [15:19] <ebel> Remember, you're soon enough out of college that you can just pretend this never happened on your CV. | |
| [15:19] <slashtom> aye, 3 months out of college... you can write off the time and nobody would think anything of it | |
| [15:20] <ebel> just pretend you took a few weeks off to relax after college | |
| [15:20] <ebel> and look for a new job. | |
| [15:20] <ebel> tell these chancers to feck off. | |
| [15:20] <ebel> If you can walk away from the bargaining table, you are in a position of strength | |
| [15:20] <slashtom> aye, unless they're paying well €80k+ | |
| [15:21] <slashtom> they're chances and really taking the piss | |
| [15:21] <ebel> everyone goes through that. my ex-job was a PITA | |
| [15:22] <Tribaal> hey, sorry to be jumping in, but I'll be moving to Ireland soon, and that seems like an appropriate discussion to ask this: what should I expect as "not taking the piss working hours"? :) | |
| [15:23] <slashtom> yep, even yesterday i was sent a graduate job add for a position in england that wanted someone with a minimum 2:2 and paying less than my former salary (i was software team leader) | |
| [15:23] <slashtom> Tribaal: nothing more than 40 hours per week | |
| [15:23] <Tribaal> slashtom: really? Whow | |
| [15:23] <slashtom> where are you moving from? | |
| [15:23] <Tribaal> good to know | |
| [15:23] <Tribaal> Switzerland | |
| [15:23] <slashtom> graduate or with experience? | |
| [15:24] <Tribaal> here the legal max is 42/week, and I currently do well over 50 | |
| [15:24] <Tribaal> with experience | |
| [15:24] <Tribaal> (10+ years) | |
| [15:24] <slashtom> aye, it depends on the company but IT skills are in short supply | |
| [15:24] <Tribaal> ok | |
| [15:24] <slashtom> anyone who wants to retain their employees treats them well | |
| [15:25] <slashtom> those who don't, like ebel's former employer do badly (i don't think ebel has been properly replaced, and he left 12 months ago) | |
| [15:25] <Tribaal> How come, by the way? Seems like there are lots of IT companies there - there should be schools etc... to match, so where do all the IT guys leave to? the US? | |
| [15:25] <ebel> usually 'full time' means 9am → 5pm (or 5:30pm), Monday → Friday | |
| [15:25] <ebel> legal max here is 48hrs per week IIRC | |
| [15:26] <Tribaal> who did you work for ebel? :) | |
| [15:26] <ebel> Ireland usually just uses the bare minimum of EU employee rights | |
| [15:27] <slashtom> Tribaal: there's limited local resource, i work for a company with about 30 employee. in the past 18 months we have taken on about 5 new developers who the majority (including myself) are immigrants | |
| [15:27] <ebel> don't think it's a case of people leaving, more like jobs coming in. | |
| [15:27] <ebel> e.g. us companies. | |
| [15:27] <Tribaal> oh, gotcha | |
| [15:27] <ebel> but I've always worked for irish tech companies, and there are load of them. | |
| [15:27] <ebel> usually small companies | |
| [15:28] <Tribaal> what do other activity sectors look like in Ireland? My wife isn't a techie - and she'll probably be looking for something sooner or later... | |
| [15:28] <ebel> lots of pharmacutial i think... | |
| [15:28] <ebel> not a lot of construction..... | |
| [15:28] <Tribaal> (sorry - I don't mean to hijack the discussion, please tell me if I'm being a troll) | |
| [15:28] <czajkowski> Tribaal: what area does she work in | |
| [15:28] <slashtom> you're grand | |
| [15:29] <ebel> things like nursing, teaching and a lot of public sector jobs have not been hiring anyone for years.... | |
| [15:29] <Tribaal> well she's into banking/finance (project management mostly) | |
| [15:29] <czajkowski> well banking sector possibly not so | |
| [15:29] <czajkowski> given ireland current woes with the banks | |
| [15:29] <Tribaal> yeah | |
| [15:29] <czajkowski> so PM work elsewhere possible | |
| [15:29] <ebel> i don't know how many banking/finance jobs there are, but the banking industry kinda went downhill a bit | |
| [15:29] <czajkowski> though BOI has a lot of contract PM work atm | |
| [15:30] <Tribaal> yeah sounds reasonable | |
| [15:30] <Tribaal> good to know for BOI (I assume Bank Of Ireland) | |
| [15:31] <ebel> that's an interesting observation, you never really heard lots of techies going off to the USA to get work | |
| [15:31] <ebel> recently or in the celtic tiger years... | |
| [15:31] <Tribaal> here it's the big thing | |
| [15:31] <Tribaal> most graduates dream of going to silicon valley to make it big | |
| [15:32] <ebel> yes, there is some who'd do that.... | |
| [15:32] <Tribaal> and most end up doing shitty jobs there instead of staying and earning a relatively good living | |
| [15:33] <czajkowski> Tribaal: where are you based now ? | |
| [15:33] <Tribaal> in Zurich, Switzerland | |
| [15:34] * ebel has been in the canton of zurich | |
| [15:34] <ebel> (or maybe it was bern) | |
| [15:34] <Tribaal> hehe | |
| [15:35] <czajkowski> Tribaal: so you do realise the wages in ireland are a lot lower than Switzerland by a long shot as well | |
| [15:35] <slashtom> i don't think we went as far north as zurich | |
| [15:35] <slashtom> but living costs are much lower | |
| [15:35] <ebel> czajkowski: price is much less in .ie than .ch | |
| [15:35] <czajkowski> a lot of my mates are in Google Switzerland | |
| [15:35] <Tribaal> Bern looks like a castle (all made of stone, plenty of medieval-looking structures), Zurich is more cosmopolitan/modern | |
| [15:35] <slashtom> it would be like moving from .ie to .uk | |
| [15:35] <ebel> Tribaal: me and slashtom were riding motorbikes over the alps | |
| [15:35] <czajkowski> slashtom: they've said different which is why one is leaving and 3 are staying for various reasons | |
| [15:36] <Tribaal> czajkowski: yeah, Google has a big R&D center here | |
| [15:36] <czajkowski> indeed | |
| [15:36] <Tribaal> ebel: nice :) | |
| [15:36] <ebel> Tribaal: get used to things not really working as well, and things not being as tidy. | |
| [15:36] <czajkowski> yeah that's their big complaint when they come back visiting | |
| [15:36] <ebel> I'm going to assume in switzerland things (e.g. busses/trains) work well and reliably. In Ireland things are a bit more... flexible. | |
| [15:36] <Tribaal> ebel: we don't mind :) That's partly why we're leaving this place - too orderly, not enough room for opportunities | |
| [15:36] <czajkowski> Tribaal: are you irish and want to move back ? | |
| [15:36] <Tribaal> czajkowski: nope | |
| [15:37] <czajkowski> Tribaal: so why Ireland ? | |
| [15:37] <Tribaal> we're Swiss and French, and want to see the world, after living in a very tidy and boring country | |
| [15:37] <slashtom> ireland is deadly, of course :D | |
| [15:37] <Tribaal> Well, we're not completely hippies yet, so we decided to move wherever one of us would have a job offer first | |
| [15:37] * slashtom tries to presuade czajkowski to move back :) | |
| [15:37] <Tribaal> :) | |
| [15:38] <Tribaal> (some of my friends went what I call the hippie way and "dropped everything and went to Africa" or something) | |
| [15:38] <czajkowski> slashtom: no chance and I don't mind it here seeing as I'm half English and dad is English. I mean dads dad left england and went back to poland to his country | |
| [15:38] <Tribaal> (didn't work out so well for them) | |
| [15:39] <czajkowski> it's not as if I went to another country with no relationship with | |
| [15:39] <czajkowski> Tribaal: aye we've had mates from Oz who did the EU thing and are now back in OZ | |
| [15:39] <Tribaal> sorry, but what is OZ? | |
| [15:39] <ebel> Tribaal: mailing lists (e.g. ILUG, python-ireland etc.) are good places to find job postings. | |
| [15:40] <czajkowski> Australia | |
| [15:40] <ebel> as well as the usual ones like moster.ie, and recruiters | |
| [15:40] <Tribaal> (I'll have to upgrade my slang terms I think :) ) | |
| [15:40] <slashtom> that's where myself and czajkowski differ, i consider it a promotion to have moved from England to Ireland :) | |
| [15:40] <czajkowski> :) | |
| [15:40] <Tribaal> hehe | |
| [15:40] <czajkowski> I was born here first remember | |
| [15:40] <slashtom> aye, i used monster.ie | |
| [15:40] <czajkowski> and have relations here | |
| [15:40] <ebel> since companies can spend ages looking for a job, enquire about all job postings. I've gotten a job from a 6 month old job posting and an interview with a 1 year old job posting. | |
| [15:41] <slashtom> recruiters will pick you up as soon as you sign up to monster.ie | |
| [15:41] <czajkowski> Tribaal: also look at linkedin | |
| [15:41] <Tribaal> good to know | |
| [15:41] <Tribaal> yeah linkedin was what got me that job in Ireland | |
| [15:41] <czajkowski> Tribaal: are you involved in the swiss or french loco ? | |
| [15:41] <Tribaal> hopefully my wife will get something too :) | |
| [15:41] <ebel> Tribaal: slashtom (being a recent immigrant) can teach you all about slang :P | |
| [15:41] <slashtom> :P | |
| [15:41] <Tribaal> czajkowski: yea, the Swiss one | |
| [15:41] <Tribaal> but it's kind of boring :) | |
| [15:41] <czajkowski> Tribaal: so will you come along to the release party in ireland now | |
| [15:42] <Tribaal> I mean everything is super difficult to organise for the Swiss loco since we speak 3 national languages... | |
| [15:42] <Tribaal> czajkowski: probably not, I'll start working on the 1st of Nov (and before that I'll have to do the moving etc... in Switzerland) | |
| [15:43] <Tribaal> but I'll definitely be there for the next one however :) | |
| [15:43] <Tribaal> or for drinkups etc... in the mean time | |
| [15:43] <ebel> Ah you already have a job, cool. | |
| [15:43] <Tribaal> ebel: yeah, that was the "why Ireland" | |
| [15:43] <slashtom> in dublin? | |
| [15:44] <Tribaal> then my wife will probably want to get one too if possible | |
| [15:44] <ebel> cool. what sorta tech do you work at? | |
| [15:44] <Tribaal> yeah Dublin | |
| [15:44] <slashtom> deadly! | |
| [15:44] <Tribaal> ? | |
| [15:44] <ebel> if you haven't found a place to live, remember that ireland has had a massive property crash. rents are falling rapidly. it's a renters-market. | |
| [15:44] <Tribaal> oh? good to know | |
| [15:44] <ebel> apartment prices (to buy) are down about 50% in 3 years. | |
| [15:44] <ebel> ("deadly" = "brilliant" ) | |
| [15:45] <Tribaal> ebel: oh ok :) Like in French then :) | |
| [15:45] <Tribaal> I wasn't sure :) | |
| [15:45] <ebel> le deadly | |
| [15:45] <Tribaal> lol | |
| [15:45] <Tribaal> "mortel" :) | |
| [15:45] <slashtom> daft.ie is good for rentals | |
| [15:45] <Tribaal> good to know | |
| [15:46] <Tribaal> thanks guys (and gals) | |
| [15:46] <slashtom> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ - useful information | |
| [15:46] <Tribaal> whow | |
| [15:46] <Tribaal> the one link to rule them all | |
| [15:46] <Tribaal> :) | |
| [15:47] <slashtom> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ | |
| [15:47] <Tribaal> deadly, thanks :) | |
| [15:51] <Tribaal> ebel, also since you asked, I'm a (mostly) Python developer | |
| [15:51] <ebel> Cool. Me too. | |
| [15:55] <czajkowski> Tribaal: so where will you be working | |
| [16:35] <dstaar> Hi. I am probably wrong in this channel but I rely on the OS community. I'm looking for a good source about the irish job market which explains what exactly e.g. contract means in detail. For the curious one i would like to work in dublin and need some background information. | |
| [16:39] <ebel> hehe, we were telling someone else about jobs in ireland earlier today (sorta) | |
| [16:39] <ebel> what exactly do you not understand? what sort of job is it? (I assume some technology job?) Where are you coming from? UK? USA? | |
| [16:39] <ebel> germany? | |
| [16:40] <ebel> a "contract job" is not a permanent job, but would be similar. it's a job that's limited in time, and you are only employed to work for (say) X months, after that you are not employed anymore | |
| [16:41] <ebel> it's like a freelancer job, or temporary job. | |
| [16:41] <ebel> (However practically jobs (include permanent jobs) will have an employment contract) | |
| [16:42] <ebel> dstaar: does that help? | |
| [16:44] <dstaar> i come from germany at the moment i study in a masters program applied computer science. | |
| [16:45] <dstaar> before writing my master thesis I would like to work in dublin for half a year that is my intention | |
| [16:45] <dstaar> contract based offers seem to be very popular | |
| [16:46] <ebel> cool. There are a lot of technology jobs in dublin now. | |
| [16:46] <ebel> there are still a lot of permanent jobs, not just contract jobs. | |
| [16:46] <ebel> But if you only want to work 6 months, then a contract job might be best. | |
| [16:46] <ebel> since then the employer knows you will not be around after 6 months. | |
| [16:47] <dstaar> it is also very flexible in germany permanent is more usual | |
| [16:47] <ebel> if you go for a job interview, tell them that you want to quit the job in 6 months. be kind :) | |
| [16:48] <ebel> permanent job is probably more common than contract job. there are probably more people working in a permanent job than a contract job. | |
| [16:48] <dstaar> germans are always kind :D | |
| [16:48] <ebel> Some people don't want a permanent job and go from contract job to contract job. | |
| [16:49] <dstaar> what about insurance and tax issues by a contract jobs, how is that handled? | |
| [16:50] <ebel> I am not sure.... http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ | |
| [16:50] <ebel> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ has lots of good information. | |
| [16:50] <dstaar> great source thank you. | |
| [16:51] <dstaar> do you know something about job chances. I mean there are a lot of job offerings in the it sector twitter is full of that. | |
| [16:51] <ebel> there are a lot of technology/programming jobs in dublin now. | |
| [16:52] <dstaar> i got a bachelor degree, several years working experience and "some" english knowledge | |
| [16:52] <dstaar> do you live in dublin ebel? | |
| [16:54] <ebel> for open source technologies you can try mailing lists, (e.g. ILUG), they often have job postings. | |
| [16:54] <ebel> I live in Dublin. | |
| [16:54] <ebel> Remember that some education qualification levels are different in different countries, but experience is always very helpful to you. | |
| [16:55] <ebel> Dublin, being the capital city, and ~ 20% → 30% of the population has lots of technology jobs. | |
| [16:57] <dstaar> my plans are to come in autumn next year to dublin together with my girlfriend. A flat seems to cost about 600€ but i couldn't find anything about electricity and internet costs et cetera. | |
| [16:58] <ebel> ireland had a big property crash (that's why the IMF/ECB bailout), so in 1 year, property might be less. | |
| [16:58] <ebel> internet is about €30 per month for ~ 8Mbit broadband (aka DSL) | |
| [16:58] <ebel> electricity is roughly similar per month. | |
| [16:59] <dstaar> just 8 Mbit, oh dear … no, just kidding :D | |
| [16:59] <ebel> Some houses/flats have gas heating, some don't. | |
| [16:59] <ebel> we don't (yet) pay council taxes or water rates. you may have to pay for rubbish collection (or if you live in a big apartment block you might not) | |
| [17:00] <dstaar> ok is it possible to get internet for 6month or there will be longe contracts? | |
| [17:00] <ebel> usually contracts would be for 1 year. You can get prepaid 3G / mobile internet | |
| [17:00] <ebel> so you can pay month by month for that. you might be able to get only 6 months of internet. maybe | |
| [17:01] <dstaar> i already did some research for 3G it's about 20€ for 7.5GB traffic. | |
| [17:01] <ebel> wait, you might be able to get 6 months of broadband/dsl internet. You can definitly get only 6 months of mobile phone internet | |
| [17:01] <ebel> yes, 3G wouldn't be as fast, or allow you to download as much. | |
| [17:02] <Tribaal> sorry, irccloud went down for a while | |
| [17:02] <dstaar> i know bit it will be enough. | |
| [17:02] <Tribaal> czajkowski: I'll be working with Dell | |
| [17:02] <dstaar> it's just for keeping contact to family. | |
| [17:03] <Tribaal> dstaar: what operator is that? | |
| [17:03] <dstaar> wait. | |
| [17:04] <dstaar> it was one of the smaller companies. | |
| [17:04] <Tribaal> that sound spretty good | |
| [17:04] <dstaar> meteor or 3 one of them. | |
| [17:04] <ebel> you could get mobile data with your mobile phone plan. might be cheaper than a dongle. then use tethering to use the connection on your computer | |
| [17:05] <dstaar> as long as i get a micro sim. | |
| [17:05] <Tribaal> ebel, what would you suggest for a mobile phone operator? | |
| [17:05] <Tribaal> also one of the smaller ones? | |
| [17:06] <ebel> there are only a few mobile phone operators really | |
| [17:06] <ebel> nearly all have fine coverage in dublin (unless you're going up the mountains) | |
| [17:06] <ebel> 3 is newish and can have spotty coveragwe | |
| [17:06] <ebel> otherwise they are all practically the same. | |
| [17:06] <ebel> i have a phone with emobile. | |
| [17:06] <dstaar> is 3 a real provider or just a reseller? | |
| [17:07] <ebel> I think 3 are a real provider. | |
| [17:07] <ebel> tesco mobile are a reseller. emobile is a reseller, but that's cause they (eircom) bought another mobile phone network (meteor), so it's the same company. | |
| [17:08] <ebel> on eircom landline internet connection thepiratebay.org is censored and blocked. | |
| [17:08] <ebel> (not on emobile or meteor, you can get to thepiratebay.org fine) | |
| [17:08] <dstaar> that is something which shouldn't be supported is there any more censorship? | |
| [17:08] <Tribaal> wait - three has *all you can eat data* plans? | |
| [17:09] <Tribaal> geez | |
| [17:09] <Tribaal> I have to pay more than 20 Swiss francs for *1Gb*/month | |
| [17:09] <dstaar> i am paying 10€ for 1GB 3G the rest is transferred with GPRS | |
| [17:09] <ebel> dstaar: no, tis only thepiratebay.org. The music industry asked them to block it, they did. :) | |
| [17:10] <Tribaal> ebel - any landline operator know not to censor? | |
| [17:10] <ebel> Ireland no longer blocks or censors books & films. (Go back 30 years and playboy was banned) | |
| [17:10] <Tribaal> for instance in France they have "Free", who made a public statement saying they would not censor when asked to by the gov. | |
| [17:10] <ebel> Tribaal: only eircom censor thepiratebay.org. everything else, is fine | |
| [17:10] <Tribaal> ebel: ok | |
| [17:11] <Tribaal> I should be ok to live with that | |
| [17:11] <Tribaal> and can SSH tunnel anyway, if I *really* need to :P | |
| [17:11] <dstaar> we got a huge community in germany fighting against censorship it is scarring to hear that other countries already using their infrastructure for those cases | |
| [17:11] <ebel> Tribaal: there might be 'fair usage' policy on that. ie might not be unlimited. | |
| [17:11] <dstaar> anyway using vpn or tor is the way to go | |
| [17:12] <Tribaal> ebel, yeah but still :) There are such usage restrictions on mine too :) | |
| [17:12] * ebel has to go home, ttyl, this channel is usually pretty active. | |
| [17:12] <Tribaal> hehe | |
| [17:12] <Tribaal> ebel: take care | |
| [17:12] <Tribaal> and thanks for all the info | |
| [17:12] <dstaar> thank you ebel | |
| [17:12] <dstaar> i'll be back … what a worse joke | |
| [17:12] <dstaar> tribaal where are you from? | |
| [17:12] <Tribaal> hehe | |
| [17:13] <Tribaal> dstaar: moving into Ireland too? | |
| [17:13] <Tribaal> Switzerland for now | |
| [17:13] <dstaar> i want to move to dublin for half a year in 2012 | |
| [17:15] <Tribaal> ah cool | |
| [17:16] * Tribaal jogging time - TTYL | |
| [17:16] <dstaar> actually i am studying but it seems hard to pay for university that's why i am looking for a job | |
| [17:37] <czajkowski> Tribaal: ahh dell in dublin so in cherry wood ? | |
| [17:41] <dstaar> is dell looking for programmers? | |
| [20:01] <czajkowski> moonpie: ping | |
| [20:43] <Tribaal> czajkowski: yeah, cherrywood | |
| [20:44] <Tribaal> don't know how much they are looking for programmers, but I assume at least a little, yeah | |