2012/06/11/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

[02:20] <Bdrumz> hello. can anyone help me? :)
[05:11] <larsduesing> Good morning
[05:12] <pitti> Good morning
[05:17] <pitti> Quantal doesn't seem to like me today; unity keeps crashing, the theme is wrong, and telepathy keeps failing to authenticate
[05:18] <jasoncwarner_> hey pitti oh...I'm assuming you are running daily?
[05:18] <pitti> hey jasoncwarner_
[05:18] <pitti> yes, updated yesterday evening
[05:18] <pitti> anyway, I'll just wait
[05:19]  * pitti reports two apport crashes to LP
[05:19] <jasoncwarner_> ok, thanks pitti , I'll find out when the EUs get online :)
[05:21] <RAOF> pitti: I think there's some dbus/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-control-centre madness happening; for me unity takes ~20sec to load, and I think that's it waiting for a bus timeout.
[05:21] <pitti> yeah, here too
[05:21] <pitti> then it resets the theme to ambiance
[05:22] <pitti> for unity, anyway
[05:22] <RAOF> If you try starting up gnome-settings-daemon it'll work, but later crash after timing out waiting for the session manager on dbus, apparently.
[06:04] <didrocks> good morning
[06:15] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks
[06:16] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: morning!
[06:16] <didrocks> good morning jasoncwarner_, how was your week-end? :)
[06:16] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: good, thanks. You?
[06:17] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: was good as well, although quite rainy
[06:17] <didrocks> am I the only one having gnome-settings-daemon exiting on quantal?
[06:17] <didrocks> (and no more appmenu integration)
[06:18] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I think pitti is having issues with it... RAOF mentioned something as well
[06:18] <pitti> hey didrocks
[06:18] <RAOF> Hey didrocks!
[06:18] <pitti> didrocks: yes, quantal is not nice today; g-s-d acting up, compiz crashing, telepathy not logging in
[06:18] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, your long week-end was good? :)
[06:18] <didrocks> pitti: compiz crashing? nothing changed AFAIK, let me look at the uploads
[06:18] <pitti> didrocks: indeed it was, thanks! spent two days in Dresden, and two in Halle for a family birthday
[06:18] <didrocks> hey RAOF
[06:19] <didrocks> oh nice :)
[06:19] <pitti> didrocks: I did file an X.org apport crash, compiz did not get one; perhaps it exited because of the g-s-d issue, or due to the X.org crash, I don't know
[06:19] <didrocks> pitti: can be, yeah
[06:20] <RAOF> pitti: Xorg crash?
[06:20] <pitti> apport just duped it to bug 1010292
[06:20] <didrocks> and appmenu is doubled for your as well?
[06:20] <RAOF> Actually, no. Let's go back to playing with mono AOT. Xorg crash can be tomorrow, when I'm working :)
[06:20] <didrocks> in gtk3 apps
[06:20] <didrocks> RAOF: oh, still one week-end? run away ;)
[06:20] <RAOF> Long weekend here :)
[06:21] <didrocks> heh, enjoy!
[06:21]  * didrocks feels it's because of the gnome-desktop ABI break and g-s-d rebuilt
[06:22] <didrocks> I wish this would have be done by the desktop team first, and tested in -proposed
[06:23] <RAOF> Didn't Robert upload gnome-desktop & friends?
[06:24] <didrocks> infinity did the ABI rebuilds (a large part of the stack)
[06:25] <didrocks> all of this should have been done in -proposed, tested and copied to release IMHO
[06:25] <micahg> could g-s-d depending on libgnomekbd7 be part of the issue?
[06:26] <didrocks> micahg: I see some keyboard warnings, so can be
[06:27] <didrocks> I'm afraid I will have to package 3.5.2
[06:27] <didrocks> but with that, we will regress in compiz front as we don't have the gsettings backend yet
[06:28] <didrocks> finishing my email backlog and then looking at that
[06:29] <RAOF> I think g-s-d is waiting for something on dbus, then dying when it doesn't show up; it crashes after timing out on a couple of dbuseys.
[07:01] <glatzor> morning pitti.
[07:01] <pitti> hey glatzor, wie gehts?
[07:01] <glatzor> how are you?
[07:02] <pitti> glatzor: I'm great, thanks!
[07:02] <glatzor> pitti, fine. The last 5 days on my old working place.
[07:02]  * pitti is currently fighting with apport's py3 port
[07:02] <pitti> glatzor: oh, where are you moving to?
[07:03] <glatzor> pitti, To be honest I don't know yet. I just wanted to put an end to my current working place. and so my girlfriend and me are taking the chance to take off some monthes and travelling around Canada
[07:03] <glatzor> pitti, perhaps I will answer to one of the Google head hunter spams :)
[07:04] <pitti> hehe
[07:04] <glatzor> pitti, The seems to regularly scan Ohloho
[07:05] <glatzor> pitti, Niels Thykier gave me the advice to use lintian profiles instead of the currently used tag files
[07:06] <pitti> in aptdaemon?
[07:06] <pitti> I haven't used lintian profiles yet
[07:07] <glatzor> pitti, right. Aptdaemon now ships a debian/aptdaemon.profile and an ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile
[07:07] <glatzor> pitti, the are based on the debian ftp mater auto reject profile
[07:07] <glatzor> they are ..
[07:07] <glatzor> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/lintian-profiles/view/head:/data/lintian/ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile
[07:08] <glatzor> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/lintian-profiles/view/head:/data/lintian/debian/aptdaemon.profile
[07:09] <glatzor> pitti, I just converted the old tag files to profiles. But I think that the list of disabled checks in the ubuntu profile could need some review.
[07:09] <pitti> ah, nice
[07:09] <pitti> that's more general than the old tag files, though, as you cannot override messages for specific files?
[07:10] <glatzor> pitti, overrides are now easily configurable. We just use the ones from the ftp master auto reject profile. sys admins can even place a custom profile add /etc/lintian/profiles/ubuntu/aptdaemon.profile to overwrite the shipped one
[07:11] <glatzor> pitti, the test will now also fail on warnings.
[07:11] <pitti> you've been busy :)
[07:12] <pitti> also, thanks for merging the pkcompat branch
[07:12] <glatzor> pitti, you just need to a Tag section with the Overridable attribute
[07:12] <glatzor> need to add a
[07:12] <glatzor> pitti, it is raining here a lot :)
[07:15] <glatzor> pitti, I found a comment of you in the pkcompat branch about getting the return value of 2 from apt-key even on successful runs
[07:15] <glatzor> pitti, is there are way to reproduce this?
[07:15] <pitti> glatzor: right, that's why I modified the logic to check stdout
[07:16] <pitti> glatzor: the test suite does
[07:17] <pitti> hm, why can't I run this ATM -- can't import apt.auth
[07:18] <pitti> ah, I guess it was removed and moved to apt or so
[07:19] <glatzor> pitti, right. I created a new apt.auth module
[07:20] <glatzor> pitti, unfortunately trunk currently depends on a not yet released libapt and python-apt
[07:20] <glatzor> pitti, I fixed apt-key to be usable with chroots too
[07:20] <pitti> if we can fix the exit code in apt-key, we can revert the workaround, of course
[07:21] <glatzor> pitti, the adv command of apt-key should return the exit state of gnupg directly
[07:23] <glatzor> pitti, we could also use the status fd of gnupg in apt.auth
[07:24] <glatzor> pitti, but to come back to the initial issue: who should decide on the lintian profile and when we call a software being of bad quality
[07:24] <glatzor> ?
[07:25] <pitti> this is for installing third-party debs, right?
[07:26] <pitti> not sure really; I guess someone familiar with the current set of tags should review them (mvo?), and perhaps put it up for review on u-devel@
[07:27] <glatzor> morning mvo :)
[07:28] <mvo> hey glatzor and pitti!
[07:28] <pitti> hey mvo, guten Morgen
[07:28] <didrocks> hey mvo! enjoyed your holidays?
[07:28] <mvo> didrocks: yes, it was very nice!
[07:29] <didrocks> great ;) staying at home or travelling?
[07:33] <mvo> didrocks: I stayed at home, it was a very short vac, still a nice break
[07:34] <didrocks> sweet :)
[07:36] <didrocks> RAOF: if you are still around, it's the gnome-desktop MAX_GL_TEXTURE helper which troubles g-s-d :)
[07:36] <RAOF> didrocks: ORLY?
[07:36] <RAOF> Arse.
[07:36] <RAOF> That's what it's waiting for, I take it?
[07:36] <RAOF> Yay for defensively setting a timeout :)
[07:37] <didrocks> RAOF: indeed! :)
[07:37] <didrocks> he's waiting eagerly to gnome-desktop to respond on the MAX_GL_TEXTURE
[07:37] <didrocks> which out to ignore him completely
[07:39] <RAOF> Heh.
[07:41] <didrocks> RAOF: it's normal that it ignores it btw
[07:41] <didrocks> RAOF: it's not like if it was on disk :p
[07:49] <didrocks> found why I guess
[07:49] <didrocks> two libexec_PROGRAMS in the same Makefile.am, one should die :)
[07:52] <glatzor> mvo, when do you plan to upload apt and python-apt?
[07:53] <glatzor> I would like to release the python3 port with the new apt.auth support
[07:54] <glatzor> mvo, pitti oh. I have to leave for work now. see you.
[07:54] <glatzor> have a nice day
[07:54] <pitti> bye glatzor, you too!
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
[07:57] <mvo> glatzor: bye
[07:57] <mvo> glatzor: yes, apt is ready in my bzr branch for quantal
[07:57] <mvo> glatzor: and python-apt will be soon I hope
[08:04] <thumper> didrocks: kudos on helping solve the Q gcc issue
[08:04] <didrocks> thumper: no worry :)
[08:04] <thumper> didrocks: it was a doozy
[08:04] <didrocks> thumper: now, we need to find the best (and saner) strategy to have both libs installed and living well together :)
[08:04] <didrocks> thumper: oh yeah…
[08:04] <thumper> didrocks: now hoe to move forward again :)
[08:04] <thumper> s/hoe/how
[08:05] <didrocks> thumper: indeed ;) I'm hoping we can tackle/fix that today or tomorrow. I'm feeling way better now that we know the cause
[08:05] <thumper> me too
[08:05] <thumper> I was scratching my head quite a bit
[08:05] <thumper> I'm off to clean dinner dishes since John is late again
[08:06] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:08] <Laney> morning!
[08:08] <chrisccoulson> hi Laney
[08:08] <Laney> how goes?
[08:08] <didrocks> thumper: see you! :)
[08:08] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. how are you?
[08:08] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, did you have a good weekend?
[08:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: how was your week-end?
[08:08] <didrocks> morning Laney!
[08:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks :)
[08:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: an excellent one despite the rain!
[08:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, it didn't rain too much here, thankfully
[08:10] <chrisccoulson> is anyone else having problems with gnome-settings-daemon not running in their unity session atm?
[08:11] <larsu> chrisccoulson, ha, I just wanted to ask the same question :)
[08:11] <larsu> chrisccoulson, Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0
[08:11] <chrisccoulson> larsu, yeah, my unity session is quite unusable. i get that too, and there's quite a few dbus related errors as well
[08:12] <chrisccoulson> i've had to switch to gnome shell this morning ;)
[08:12] <chrisccoulson> which still seems to work for some reason
[08:12] <chrisccoulson> so, if nobody has started looking at that, i guess i should probably take a look at it now
[08:12] <chrisccoulson> now i know it isn't just me :)
[08:13] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, I fixed it
[08:13] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: see my gnome-desktop upload
[08:13] <didrocks> larsu: ^
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, thanks :)
[08:13] <larsu> oh cool
[08:13] <larsu> didrocks, thanks!
[08:13] <didrocks> larsu: yw ;)
[08:14] <didrocks> larsu: btw, a question on that
[08:14] <didrocks> larsu: g-s-d exiting -> appmenu shown on the application?
[08:14] <didrocks> larsu: is that new? is it a new property that g-s-d is sending to gtk apps?
[08:15] <didrocks> like "hide my menu please" :)
[08:15] <larsu> didrocks, it shouldn't. But I see appmenus on almost all gtk3 apps now. I assume it's all bug #999827
[08:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 999827 in indicator-appmenu "App menus aren't shown in the panel if the app is also exporting menus via dbusmenu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999827
[08:15] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, there is an xsettings property for that now
[08:16] <didrocks> oh, it's a xsettings property on the root window?
[08:16]  * didrocks looks :)
[08:16] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have the name of the property? I'm curious :)
[08:17] <seb128> hey
[08:17] <seb128> hey didrocks, chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:17] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:17] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 pitti, how are you?
[08:17] <seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
[08:17] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i can't remember it off the top of my head
[08:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson; I'm great, thanks! had a nice long weekend
[08:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
[08:18] <didrocks> hey seb128. I'm fine, thanks, and you?
[08:18] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok ;)
[08:18] <larsu> didrocks, chrisccoulson may be right - the bug I linked to is a separate issue
[08:18] <larsu> seb128, morning!
[08:18] <didrocks> larsu: yeah, I guess so
[08:18] <seb128> didrocks, good, thanks ;-)
[08:18] <seb128> larsu, guten tag!
[08:18] <larsu> still needs to get fixed :-/
[08:18] <seb128> didrocks, what issue are you discussing?
[08:19] <didrocks> seb128: oh, not an issue, I was just wondering why when g-s-d exit, the appmenu is shown in gtk3 apps
[08:19] <didrocks> seb128: this is quite new, isn't it?
[08:19] <seb128> didrocks, since precise, that's the work desrt did
[08:19] <seb128> didrocks, Gtk/ShellShowsMenubar xsettings is set by gsd
[08:19] <seb128> same for Gtk/ShellShowsAppMenu
[08:20] <didrocks> on the root window?
[08:20] <seb128> didrocks, remember, I told you that you can turn off the appmenu with gsettings overrides ;-)
[08:20] <seb128> didrocks, well, it's a xsettings, like the theme, etc
[08:20] <seb128> I don't think it's win specific
[08:21] <didrocks> ah ok ;)
[08:21] <seb128> didrocks, googling suggest there is a settings window for those
[08:22] <seb128> http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html
[08:22] <seb128> didrocks, "The settings manager changes the contents of the _XSETTINGS_SETTINGS property of the root window whenever the source it derives them from changes,"
[08:22] <seb128> inf act
[08:23] <didrocks> seb128: ok, reading it, thanks!
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
[08:34] <Sweetshark> moin!
[08:34] <larsu> seb128, I know you told me this before, but how can I get the equivalent of bzr branch lp:ubuntu/gnome-settings-daemon if the autoimporter is broken?
[08:35] <seb128> larsu, apt-get source gnome-settings-daemon?
[08:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[08:35] <larsu> seb128, yeah, but that doesn't let me fix something and put out a merge request
[08:36] <larsu> I want to remove that print plugin asserting in .xsession-errors
[08:36] <seb128> larsu: we use debian only vcs, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu
[08:37] <seb128> larsu, but feel free to just do an upstream patch for that, .xsession-errors noise are usually not worth doing an Ubuntu specific upload
[08:38] <larsu> seb128, it's in our patch that removes the plugin. Otherwise I'd have done it upstream ;)
[08:38] <Sweetshark> seb128: could you take of bug 1010631 or reassign it appropriately?
[08:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010631 in libcmis "sync request: libcmis (0.2.2-1) " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010631
[08:38] <Laney> ogra_: hey, can you add me to that team with an ARM PPA please? (I forgot its name, sorry)
[08:38] <seb128> larsu: ok, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu then
[08:39] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[08:39] <larsu> seb128, cool, thanks
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> hmm, has anyone else used gnome-shell with multiple monitors?
[08:42] <Sweetshark> seb128: thx!
[08:45] <Laney> ogra_: hey, can you add me to that team with an ARM PPA please? (I forgot its name, sorry)
[08:46] <Laney> .
[08:46] <ogra_> Laney, no neeed to repeat :)
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, seems we were quite lucky to mostly avoid rain over the weekend: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18391200
[08:48] <ogra_> Laney, done (canonical-arm-dev btw)
[08:48] <Laney> ogra_: sorry. Something is very wrong with my internet connection right now
[08:48] <Laney> switched to mosh to hopefully smooth it out
[08:48] <ogra_> ah
[08:48] <ogra_> well, you are a member now, have fun :)
[08:49] <Laney> thanks
[08:49] <Laney> which PPA should I be using?
[08:49] <Laney> ah, "ppa" probably :-)
[08:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we didn't avoid rain in France ;-)
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128, we didn't completely avoid it, but it didn't rain here as much as it did in wales
[08:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what about g-s and multimonitor? I didn't try here but I guess it should be working
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i just docked my laptop whilst running gnome-shell, and noticed that i only get 1 workspace on my secondary monitor
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> not sure if that's normal
[08:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think that's wanted
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> oh, that sucks ;)
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> i prefer what we have
[08:55] <seb128> ;-)
[08:56] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: that's to punish you using it :p
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> heh
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> it feels quite broken to be able to have multiple workspaces on only 1 screen
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> i definitely couldn't work like that
[08:59] <Laney> hrm, I've no unity this morning :P
[08:59] <didrocks> Laney: possibly due to this g-s-d timing out (and theme changing), no?
[09:00] <didrocks> Laney: nothing changed/have been built unity side
[09:00] <Laney> I installed your gnome-desktop3 before restarting
[09:00] <didrocks> Laney: or do you have your locally installed version with the rebuild?
[09:00] <didrocks> the one you merge proposed
[09:00] <Laney> don't think I did it on this machine
[09:00] <Laney> let me see.
[09:01] <Laney> getting a compiz segfault
[09:02] <didrocks> report it please ;)
[09:02] <Laney> am doing
[09:02] <thumper> didrocks: I think compiz compiles with C++0x
[09:02] <thumper> didrocks: just a fyi :)
[09:02] <didrocks> thumper: right, but it's uploaded for 15 days now
[09:03] <didrocks> thumper: and no issue :)
[09:03] <thumper> ok
[09:03] <didrocks> thumper: however, I spoke to the gcc dev
[09:03] <didrocks> thumper: they are telling that ABI changes are coming all over the place in the stl
[09:03] <didrocks> thumper: and it's not yet intended to be used in applications as long as the stack isn't ready
[09:03] <thumper> didrocks: ick
[09:04] <Laney> bug #1011496, see if the retracer dups it
[09:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011496 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in std::__detail::_List_node_base::_M_hook()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011496
[09:04] <didrocks> thumper: so, I'm not sure the cost of this and shipping 2 versions of the whole stl…
[09:04] <thumper> :(
[09:04] <didrocks> Laney: are you sure that you don't have the version you compiled locally?
[09:04] <didrocks> as it's exactly that
[09:04] <didrocks> the crash I was reffering and why I refused your merge
[09:05] <Laney> I thought apport would have refused the bug if so
[09:05] <Laney> I'll make it re-download :P
[09:05] <Sweetshark> seb128: btw my machine failed to boot into lightdm today again -- with the patch from the bug.
[09:05] <didrocks> Laney: if you rebuild with the same version…
[09:05] <didrocks> thumper: I guess we need to discuss that tomorrow, preferrably with doko?
[09:06]  * thumper nods
[09:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, oh, "LibreOffice gerrit bot" is you? ;-)
[09:06] <didrocks> thumper: I'm afraid the cost at the end will get higher and higher. The gcc devs are happy to work with us on this
[09:06] <Sweetshark> seb128: :/
[09:06] <thumper> didrocks: I'm concerned that unity is just the tip of the iceberg here
[09:06] <Sweetshark> seb128: yes. forgot to exchange logins
[09:06] <didrocks> thumper: right, they are just discouraging using it for final apps until the stack is ready
[09:07] <thumper> didrocks: if I'm a project dev using C++ and I choose to use C++0x flag to get the new goodness, I'd expect it to work on ubuntu
[09:07] <didrocks> thumper: I'll try to get doko on board
[09:07] <thumper> they who?
[09:07] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, thanks for testing and commenting back, guess we need to figure another fix then :-(
[09:07] <Sweetshark> Hello. I am your friendly LibreOffice Bot. How can I help?
[09:07] <didrocks> thumper: gcc devs implementing C++0x
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> thumper, did you see my mail on ubuntu-devel about this?
[09:08] <thumper> chrisccoulson: no, I'm not on ubuntu-devel
[09:09] <thumper> didrocks: the problem with this is how much in unity would have to change
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> thumper, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-June/035310.html
[09:09] <thumper> didrocks: and it is a metric fuck-ton
[09:09] <chrisccoulson> i guess you're talking about this :)
[09:09] <didrocks> thumper: indeed… I totally agree. I would prefer that we don't have to change the code all over the place
[09:09] <didrocks> thumper: let's see, I'm trying to catch doko ASAP
[09:09] <didrocks> thumper: and I'll setup a meeting
[09:10] <didrocks> hopefully on in crazy hours for you
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> stl isn't really meant to be used in public api's for this reason
[09:10] <didrocks> not*
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> thumper, https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/211119293004398593 ;)
[09:10] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: in the email I sent to them, I refered to that email
[09:10] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, ah, ok. thanks
[09:10] <didrocks> so he should have read it already :)
[09:12] <thumper> chrisccoulson: I feel that you are saying different things to what I'm inferring from didrocks
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> thumper, in what way?
[09:12] <didrocks> hum?
[09:13] <Sweetshark> seb128: libreoffice_3.4.5+really3.4.4-0ubuntu1 is now finally ready on chinstrap. how do we proceed with it?
[09:13] <thumper> I inferred it was only libsigc++6 that was the issue as it was compiled with a different flag
[09:13] <thumper> chrisccoulson: you mentioned it was just libsigc++
[09:13] <thumper> damnit
[09:14] <thumper> first library should be libstdc++6
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> thumper, ah, libstdc isn't really involved here, because a lot of the STL is template code, which means it has to be compiled inline
[09:15] <thumper> that is what I thought
[09:15] <thumper> however it means that we can't use "auto, lambdas, range based for loops, strong enums" and a bunch of others
[09:15] <thumper> that we have started using in unity wholesale
[09:15] <thumper> for the last 10 months
[09:16] <thumper> c++11 also adds namespacing to old enums
[09:16] <thumper> which c++98 does not
[09:16] <thumper> so much nice goodness that it seems we are being told not to use
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> i'm not advocating switching away from that :)
[09:16] <thumper> ok, didrocks, chrisccoulson: do we need a meeting to decide how to move forwards?
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> rather, that we should switch libsigc. but i wonder whether we need to have a policy to enforce things like this
[09:17] <thumper> or will email be sufficient?
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> email should probably be ok
[09:17] <thumper> ok
[09:18] <didrocks> thumper: maybe, we can twist this, I'm testing something
[09:18] <didrocks> thumper: building with 4.6
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> that will work until someone rebuilds libsigc with 4.7 :)
[09:19] <thumper> this just sounds like a pile of mess
[09:19] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hum, this can work if it's with 4.7 but without the flags?
[09:19] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: as the issue for us is that there isn't this flag
[09:19] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, the STL ABI is different between gcc versions too
[09:20] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: argh, it's definitively a doko's issue here
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:20] <didrocks> he should 1. first have warned us about those
[09:20] <didrocks> 2. handle that because we have quite a lot of apps in the stack
[09:20] <didrocks> (and not only in main)
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> this is why i hate the "lets use the latest toolchain" bandwagon, because it always results in people doing unproductive work just to unbreak things :)
[09:22] <didrocks> indeed
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> especially people who maintain a browser ;)
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> which always breaks with a new compiler
[09:22] <didrocks> heh, not sure who you speak about ;)
[09:22] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:24] <BigWhale> Good Morning.
[09:40] <didrocks> Laney: see why I refused your merge now? ;)
[09:40] <Laney> :P
[09:40] <Laney> sorry :(
[09:40] <didrocks> no worry!
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[10:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you finish the pgo benchmarks? I'm pondering if your remaining a1 item should be closed or moved to a2
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yes, that's finished. i just need to present the data in a way which is useful, which is why i haven't closed it yet :)
[10:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, I let if for you then ... what's the bottom line, is that bringing a real improvement?
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, in some JS benchmarks it is quite a significant improvement. overall it does make it faster
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[11:00] <Sweetshark> seb128: thx for support and syncing/sponsoring.
[11:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, you're welcome, thanks for the work ;-)
[11:32] <BigWhale> Is Gstreamer 1.0 already in Quantal?
[11:35] <RAOF> BigWhale: Yes.
[11:36]  * BigWhale does a happy dance.
[11:37] <BigWhale> RAOF, awesome.
[11:37] <BigWhale> Thanks.
[11:37] <RAOF> Doing some gstreamer hacking? :)
[11:37] <BigWhale> I ported most of Kazam to GStreamer 1.0
[11:39] <BigWhale> and I am being lazy about installing it from the source again.
[11:39] <BigWhale> so I'll just use a VM
[11:50] <BigWhale> Now all I need is a new keybinder ...
[13:05] <seb128> re
[13:08] <didrocks> re seb128
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[13:50] <Sweetshark> seb128: ping?
[13:50] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[13:51] <Sweetshark> seb128: I managed to get launchpad to take my branch. So ignore my diff and take https://code.launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/ubuntu-seeds/quantal-libo instead as a base ;)
[13:51] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok!
[13:52] <Sweetshark> seb128: I *really* stupidly made a mistake with my ssh setup. #launchpad had a laugh ....
[13:54] <seb128> Sweetshark, can happen to anyone ;-)
[15:11] <mpt> skaet, could you please mark <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-indicator-redesign> as accepted for Q? The approver does not have permission.
[15:12] <skaet> mpt,   done.  what's the priority of this one?
[15:13] <mpt> skaet, thank you. Medium.
[15:13] <skaet> thanks mpt,  done.
[15:14] <mpt> \o/
[15:14] <Laney> ..
[15:15] <seb128> Laney, ???
[15:15] <seb128> ;-)
[15:15] <Laney> this is a funny-looking terminal!
[15:29] <pavolzetor> hilo, where should I report bug about skype?
[15:30] <pavolzetor> I have tried ubuntu-bug skype
[15:30] <pavolzetor> but package is not in repo or so
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[15:30] <pavolzetor> I am just a little pissed with horrible icon in AltTab
[15:31] <pavolzetor> so I want to report it
[15:32] <jbicha> pavolzetor: I believe that bug was already reported as bug 937975
[15:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 937975 in skype "Application needs hi-res or SVG icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/937975
[15:33] <pavolzetor> I see
[15:33] <pavolzetor> who does package skype?
[15:33] <pavolzetor> it should be really easy to fix
[15:36] <pavolzetor> okay I subscribed, thanks
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[16:46] <mterry> mpt, so in the Software Updater, the phrase "Checking for updates..." should be (A) big, (B) big and bold, or (C) neither?
[16:46] <mpt> mterry, C
[16:47] <mpt> mterry, that is a provisional answer because I'm not the guy writing the typography guidelines, but I'm fairly confident in that one. :-)
[16:47] <mterry> mpt, and the details line below the progress bar, it should be normal size too?  (the "Checking Yorba PPA" one -- not that we have that nice a description yet)
[16:47] <mpt> mterry, that's a caption, small print (<small>)
[16:47] <mterry> mpt, OK!
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[16:56] <Sweetshark> LibreOffice is down to 273 nonupstream/nonincomplete open bugs ...
[16:58] <kenvandine> Sweetshark, that is impressive
[16:59] <Sweetshark> ... and down to 106 triaged/confirmed nonupstream bugs.
[16:59]  * Sweetshark is dead set on making that <100 bug.
[17:00] <Sweetshark> (this cycle)
[17:02] <didrocks> have a good evening everyone!
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[17:13] <mpt> Sweetshark, maybe you should request a page on <http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus>
[17:13] <mpt> for libreoffice
[17:16] <mpt> to watch your progress
[17:18] <Sweetshark> mpt: yep, looks nice. will do maybe.
[17:26] <seb128> Sweetshark, mpt: request http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/openoffice.org to be changed to libreoffice ;-)
[17:26] <seb128> Sweetshark, you can probably ask bdmurray
[17:40] <seb128> dobey, hey, u1 question for you ... we still have the syncdaemon on the CD, is that required with the installer?
[17:43] <dobey> seb128: no, but is required for other things that are still on the image
[17:44] <seb128> dobey, what things?
[17:44] <dobey> seb128: why? are you removing all the python2 stuff that's still there now?
[17:44] <dobey> seb128: buying music needs it
[17:44] <seb128> dobey, jason asked me to figure what are our option if twisted doesn't get ported this cycle
[17:45] <seb128> dobey, the store is not using the installer, couldn't install it on demand on first use if needed?
[17:45] <seb128> dobey, it's just a plan B but I'm trying to figure our options
[17:45] <dobey> seb128: ok. i've already talked to chipaca/ralsina about it, and chipaca will talk to cparrino/jason/rick/etc about it
[17:46] <dobey> seb128: yes, not having u1 on the image will require a lot of changes
[17:46] <seb128> dobey, ok, thanks, that's good enough of an answer for me ... he asked me why we needed the service if we had the installer anyway and asking users to install stuff on demand
[17:46] <dobey> seb128: also, ubuntu-sso-client does need twisted and ubuntuone-dev-tools at least, to be able to run tests on python3 :)
[17:47] <seb128> dobey, I was unsure by then, I though it might have to do with the store
[17:47] <seb128> dobey, ok, 'fair enough, I guess there is no easy way out of it ;-)
[17:47] <dobey> seb128: yeah, we don't really have things set up to install on demand. and no matter what we do, it's going to be >1 month of work i think :)
[17:48] <seb128> dobey, thanks ;-)
[17:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can I tell firefox,tb to just copy text as normal text and not as format html text?
[17:52] <seb128> oh, tb has a "paste without formatting"
[17:52] <seb128> can I make that the default for ctrl-v? ;-)
[18:03] <seb128> pitti, would you be interested to look at bug #1010141? I subscribed you, it seems a bit of your area, I would appreciate if you could have a look when you get a bit of free time
[18:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1010141 in gvfs "gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor automounts loop devices, preventing them from being unmounted" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010141
[18:08] <BigWhale> Greetings.
[18:22] <kenvandine> hey BigWhale
[18:22] <BigWhale> Hey ken.
[18:23] <BigWhale> kenvandine, how's it going? :)
[18:23] <kenvandine> busy... and you?
[18:23] <BigWhale> about the same. :/
[18:24] <BigWhale> but I try to find time for some Ubuntu lobbying in the mean time. I'm right in the middle of writing an email to ubuntu-desktop. :)
[18:56] <seb128> BigWhale, not sure that was worth a mailing list message, that update seems like a normal update, it just needs somebody to do it?
[19:04] <jbicha> BigWhale: also since we're in sync with Debian, you should ask the Debian maintainer, DktrKranz hangs out in Debian IRC if you want to ping him that way
[19:10] <BigWhale> seb128, jbicha: thanks for the tips. I'll go bug DktrKranz. :)
[19:10] <BigWhale> seb128, and I don't mind writing an email or two.
[19:10] <seb128> BigWhale, I'm sure you don't, I just don't want anyone who want an update for any desktopish source to write to the list :p
[19:11] <seb128> BigWhale, or we would get some ten or so such emails a day
[19:11] <BigWhale> Understandable.
[19:11] <BigWhale> I did ask here already, but I got no definite answer. So, that was the next logical step. :)
[19:11] <seb128> BigWhale, well, no worry, I just wanted to check if there was anything special about tha tupdate
[19:12] <seb128> seems not
[19:12] <seb128> that will maybe help to get somebody to pick it ;-)
[19:12] <BigWhale> :)
[19:27] <BigWhale> seb128, I contacted Kranz, so I'll see what will he say. Just to make sure, the only way for this to land in Ubuntu is for him to update the package? Or this is just the preferred way?
[19:27] <seb128> BigWhale, that's the preferred way
[19:29] <BigWhale> Ok, thanks. I'll go to the mind-control machine right now and persuade him to do it. :>
[19:30] <seb128> ;-)
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[23:55] <TheMuso> /c/c