2007/01/12/#launchpad.txt

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[02:25] <WebMaven> SteveA: AYT?
[02:25] <WebMaven> niemeyer: AYT?
[02:25] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Here
[02:25] <niemeyer> WebMaven: But not for long
[02:25] <niemeyer> :)
[02:26] <WebMaven> OK, so as I think about RDB-based Zope3 apps, it occurs to me that all of the examples I have seen hard-code the db connection string.
[02:26] <WebMaven> it is hardcoded in either python or ZCML
[02:27] <WebMaven> This makes it more difficult to distribute an RDB-based application that is supposed to be instantiated.
[02:28] <WebMaven> At least, without editing source code.
[02:28] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Hmmm.. I'm not sure I follow
[02:28] <niemeyer> WebMaven: ZCML isn't source code
[02:28] <niemeyer> It's supposed to hold configuration
[02:28] <WebMaven> If that configuration is part of the application package, it is source code.
[02:30] <niemeyer> WebMaven: ZCML allows you to overload package-specific setups
[02:31] <WebMaven> Hmm. So, over-riding the default DB configuration...
[02:31] <WebMaven> OK, *that* makes sense...
[02:31] <niemeyer> WebMaven: Yeah, override
[02:33] <WebMaven> Is that what Launchpad does? Declare defaults in the packages and override them for deployment?
[02:34] <WebMaven> Or do you have some TTW RDB configuration (perhaps in the form of a utility)?
[02:38] <niemeyer> Launchpad has configuration files that contains those definitions.
[02:38] <niemeyer> s/contains/contain/
[02:39] <WebMaven> And do you use that default/override pattern?
[02:39] <niemeyer> WebMaven: There aren't many reasons to write a configuration file and override it if you're maintaining both of them in your own environment.
[02:40] <WebMaven> Umm. Perhaps not, if 1) you only even run one instance of the app, and 2) you don't intend to release it.
[02:41] <WebMaven> But even then, it means that a change in *deployment* will require a change to the *source*, which can't be good.
[02:42] <niemeyer> WebMaven: That isn't true..
[02:43] <WebMaven> OK.
[02:43] <niemeyer> WebMaven: It's a configuration file
[02:43] <niemeyer> WebMaven: You can have as many configuration files as you want for as many deployment environments as you have
[02:44] <niemeyer> WebMaven: It's not source code.. unless you consider /etc/X11/xorg.conf source code as well..
[02:44] <WebMaven> So, you're saying that you don't override package default configuration files because none of the configuration is *in* the packages?
[02:45] <jamesh> WebMaven: we actually use a ZConfig file to configure the exact details of the database connection
[02:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: We use ZCML
[02:46] <jamesh> for Launchpad it is in a ZConfig file
[02:46] <niemeyer> Of course, jamesh "we" is not the same as my "we" :-)
[02:46] <LarstiQ> nor my "we"
[02:46] <WebMaven> Ah, OK.
[02:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: Yeah, I know
[02:46] <LarstiQ> mine is a nintendo 
[02:46] <jamesh> the "we" I'd use if I was talking on #launchpad
=== LarstiQ ducks
[02:47] <jamesh> WebMaven: we've been considering moving over to a simpler ini file format for this configuration though
[02:47] <WebMaven> Huh. OK, I sort of assumed that Canonical would have a common pattern for DB configuration across it's apps.
[02:47] <niemeyer> Hopefully we will, soon..
[02:48] <jamesh> WebMaven: in a way we've been doing the normal XP programming pattern: write the code then extract what's common
[02:48] <WebMaven> Which will it look like?
[02:48] <niemeyer> When jamesh's "we" become the same as mine..
=== niemeyer leaves for the day keeping everyone confused..
[02:48] <WebMaven> niemeyer: what's your 'we' right now?
[02:48] <jamesh> Canonical
[02:49] <WebMaven> Ah, Launchpad != Canonical. Gotcha.
[02:49] <jamesh> Launchpad is one of Canonical's projects
[02:49] <WebMaven> So, which pattern will become the common one?
[02:49] <jamesh> niemeyer's project is another Canonical project
[02:50] <niemeyer> WebMaven: That's a good question for which a very nice answer will be defined
[02:50] <jamesh> WebMaven: probably the ini file.
[02:51] <jamesh> but maybe not
[02:51] <jamesh> Launchpad's database code could do with a bit of simplification here
[02:52] <jamesh> we've got two database adapters: one for the web app and one for the scripts
[02:52] <WebMaven> scripts?
[02:52] <jamesh> this is mainly due to the fact that most of our scripts weren't using the zope component model before
[02:52] <jamesh> they are now, so the two database adapters are just bloat now
[02:52] <WebMaven> Ah, for batch operations and the like?
[02:53] <jamesh> WebMaven: we've got various cron jobs and other scripts that make use of the same Python code as the webapp
[02:53] <WebMaven> Right. I'm looking at a similar pattern.
[02:53] <WebMaven> at least, for some user-initiated jobs.
[02:54] <jamesh> over time, we found it was annoying not having the same features available to scripts (e.g. utilities, security proxies, etc)
[02:54] <jamesh> so we now initialise the zope component model for most scripts too
[02:54] <WebMaven> Hah. That *is* bloated.
[02:54] <niemeyer> Ok, I'm off to bed.. good night folks
[02:55] <WebMaven> niemeyer: thanks.
[02:55] <niemeyer> You're welcome
[02:55] <jamesh> WebMaven: well, it is definitely needed for e.g. the incoming bugmail handler script
[02:55] <jamesh> WebMaven: it is performing actions on behalf of the user.
[02:56] <jamesh> we either duplicate all the permissions that we defined for the webapp for the script (and make sure they don't go out of sync), or initialise the security system
[02:56] <WebMaven> I understand, but if you're depending on all that, you should be able to use the same connection and not have to pull in the CA to a script.
[02:57] <jamesh> it isn't really that much of a problem
[02:57] <WebMaven> OK.
[02:57] <jamesh> and a lot of these scripts are doing pretty complex things
[02:57] <jamesh> and the security proxies keep you honest :)
[02:57] <WebMaven> So, assuming you transition to a common ini-based system, what will that look like?
[02:59] <WebMaven> Do you put the ini file in a package and point to it with ZCML in etc/package-includes ?
[03:03] <WebMaven> jamesh: AYT?
[03:04] <jamesh> WebMaven: in our current system, we have a module called "canonical.config", which loads up a ZConfig file
[03:05] <jamesh> WebMaven: we have a custom database adapter configured in the ZCML, which uses the settings from canonical.config to work out which database to talk to
[03:05] <jamesh> I'd guess it would be similar when using an ini file
[03:05] <WebMaven> And you point to the module with ZCML?
[03:05] <jamesh> the database adapter or canonical.config?
[03:05] <WebMaven> the config
[03:06] <jamesh> canonical.config uses an environment variable to pick a config file
[03:06] <WebMaven> Hmm. 
[03:07] <WebMaven> Let's start over.
[03:07] <WebMaven> canonical.config is a package, or a module?
[03:08] <jamesh> module
[03:08] <WebMaven> so 'canonical' is a package?
[03:08] <jamesh> yes
[03:09] <WebMaven> where does this package get installed? site-packages or $instance/lib/python/ ?
[03:10] <jamesh> it is part of the Launchpad source tree
[03:11] <WebMaven> which gets put into the Zope instance's /lib/python ?
[03:12] <jamesh> umm
[03:12] <jamesh> Launchpad is more of "an application that uses Zope libraries" rather than something that runs inside Zope
[03:12] <WebMaven> Oh.
[03:12] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:13] <jamesh> so our source tree has a lib/ directory with all the Python libraries, including a symlink through to the zope package
[03:13] <jamesh> along with sqlobject, etc
[03:14] <WebMaven> Hmm.
[03:15] <WebMaven> Well, I'm building an app that (at least right now) runs inside Zope.
[03:17] <WebMaven> Given that I *intend* to run this as both a large-scale instance (al-la Launchpad) and as smaller instances (possibly client specific), how would you suggest the DB configuration be set up?
[03:18] <jamesh> well, as I said our canonical.config module picks its configuration from an environment variable
[03:18] <jamesh> at the toplevel of the Launchpad tree, there is a configs directory, and a subdirectory for each config under that
[03:18] <thumper> jamesh: are you available for a skype call soonish?
[03:19] <jamesh> each of those subdirectories contains a launchpad.conf file.  We have a few for each production app server, one for staging.launchpad.net, one for a developer's machine, etc
[03:19] <jamesh> thumper: okay
[03:19] <thumper> jamesh: in 10 minutes?
[03:19] <jamesh> okay
[03:20] <WebMaven> Ahh...
[03:20] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:20] <WebMaven> I assume the custom DB adapter that uses this config info is non-trivial, and unreleased?
[03:21] <jamesh> WebMaven: it isn't very complex at all
[03:22] <jamesh> WebMaven: it is a simple subclass of psycopgda, that pulls the connection string from the config file instead of ZCML, and provides some proxy cursor objects that perform some additional logging
[03:22] <WebMaven> Will it work with SQLAlchemy?
[03:23] <jamesh> I don't know.  I haven't used SQLAlchemy
[03:23] <WebMaven> OK.
[03:23] <jamesh> I guess ZAlchemy is designed to get SQLAlchemy to use a Zope database adapter, so the answer is probably yes
[03:25] <WebMaven> Actually, I don't think so. The ZAlchemy configuration I've seen so far has a hard-coded connection string. I'm going to look into it some more.
[03:26] <WebMaven> Thank you. This has been informative.
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[05:39] <thumper> ping: mpt
[05:46] <mpt> thumper, nice ping you got there
[05:47] <thumper> mpt: are you ok with a skype voice call?
[05:49] <mpt> sure
[05:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78885 in rosetta "no translation template for liferea 1.2 series" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78885
[06:10] <Ubug2> New bug: #78889 in malone "Changing bug's product to an unregistered one gives unhelpful "Invalid value" error" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78889
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[08:25] <Ubug2> New bug: #78898 in malone "URL linkification not Unicode aware" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78898
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[08:55] <Ubug2> New bug: #78899 in malone "bugs.launchpad.net source package page isn't about bugs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78899
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[09:17] <carlos> morning
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=== ..[topic/#launchpad:matthewrevell] : Fix-it Friday today! | Developer meeting: Thu 18 Jan 2007, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) |  [email protected] (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
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[09:28] <SteveA> WebMaven: hello
[09:28] <SteveA> WebMaven: do you know how the standard Zope 3 system uses a .conf file and a .zcml file?
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[09:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78907 in rosetta "distrorelease.txt test has a time bomb" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78907
[09:50] <WebMaven> SteveA: Hi.
[09:51] <WebMaven> Yes, I do.
[09:51] <WebMaven> I had a conversation with jamesh and niemeyer
[09:52] <WebMaven> Actually, I hadn't realized before that launchpad was more of a 'application built with Zope3 libraries' and less of a 'application running in Zope3'.
[09:53] <WebMaven> So, the configuration setup isn't exactly comparable to my setup.
[09:53] <WebMaven> Still, it was a productive conversation.
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[10:18] <SteveA> WebMaven: I read a bit of the scrollback
[10:18] <SteveA> WebMaven: we use the same set-up system as zope3, pretty much.  It looks like you're not fully aware of how zope3 works in this regard.
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[10:19] <SteveA> when you run the standard zope3 start-up script, you can point it at a .conf file.  there's a default file if you don't explicitly choose one.
[10:19] <SteveA> Inside that .conf file is a pointer to the root zcml file.
[10:19] <SteveA> this is all standard zope3
[10:19] <SteveA> from the questions you were asking above, you seem to think it's the other way around, that the zcml reads in the conf file or something
[10:20] <SteveA> the zcml is for software configuration.
[10:20] <SteveA> the conf file is for per-process or per-instance configuration
[10:20] <SteveA> so, a sysadmin can be expected to edit the conf file, but not zcml files.
[10:20] <SteveA> I don't know what "an application running in zope3" would mean.
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[10:35] <WebMaven> SteveA: No, I was talking about *application* configuration.
[10:35] <WebMaven> ie. if I create an application that needs to be configured when it's instantiated (in this case to point at a db), then where do I put that so the admin does not need to edit the source code for the app?
[10:36] <WebMaven> So, for example, ZAlchemy has ZCML directives for setting up the db connection.
[10:36] <WebMaven> The demo code I'm looking at puts that inside the package for the app.
[10:37] <WebMaven> As far as I'm concerned, ZCML that is inside a package is source code.
[10:42] <WebMaven> In Launchpad's case, there is no distinction between the application and the application server, so you can use the same configuration mechanism for both. That isn't true in every situation.
[10:43] <WebMaven> In my case, I think I need to put configuration into a second package outside the application package.
[10:47] <WebMaven> SteveA: Does that make sense?
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[11:05] <WebMaven> SteveA: ayt?
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[11:07] <highvoltage> hi. any launchpad admins around?
[11:08] <SteveA> WebMaven: what do you say that database configuration is "application" configuration?
[11:08] <SteveA> I don't think it's appropriate to put this kind of database configuration in zcml.
[11:08] <SteveA> because, it's something that will change for every deployment.
[11:08] <SteveA> if zope3 works like that for the zalchemy stuff you're using, then I'd consider that a misdesign in how that stuff is configured
[11:09] <SteveA> I think you're right in thinking of zcml as effectively source code
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[11:11] <highvoltage> ok, I'll just ask...
[11:11] <highvoltage> If I have a distribution I want managed in Launchpad, how do I go about applying for it?
[11:12] <highvoltage> and too which degree does the distribution /have/ to live in Launchpad?
[11:13] <seb128> grump
[11:13] <seb128> launchpad should refuse to open bug with thousand of lines to the descriptions
[11:13] <seb128> there is some people around copying the crash file to the bug description :/
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[11:15] <WebMaven> SteveA: here is an example:
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:engine
[11:15] <WebMaven>       name="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       url="mysql://root:root@localhost/helloworld"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:connectTable
[11:15] <WebMaven>       table="HelloWorldMessage"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       engine="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <WebMaven>   <alchemy:connectClass
[11:15] <WebMaven>       class=".message.HelloWorldMessage"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       engine="HWEngine"
[11:15] <WebMaven>       />
[11:15] <mpt> seb128, Launchpad shouldn't try to display thousands of lines of description
[11:16] <mpt> oh, wait, that's exactly what you said
[11:16] <mpt> never mind me
[11:16] <seb128> well, either that
[11:16] <seb128> or it should refuse to file the bug
[11:16] <mpt> batching!
[11:16] <WebMaven> SteveA: this does not, as far as I can tell, set up a Zope DA of any sort.
[11:16] <seb128> saying to the submitter to attach the crash as a file instead
[11:16] <mpt> "_Previous 1000 lines_  _Next 1000 lines_"
=== mpt is joking
[11:18] <mpt> Yours is a much better idea
[11:19] <mpt> seb128, can you give one or two examples of bugs with massive descriptions?
[11:20] <SteveA> WebMaven: having that "url=" line in the zcml is a mistake.
[11:20] <WebMaven> SteveA: So, When building a site that composes applications that each need there own db configuration, it seems to me that it's OK if the app source has defaults configured in the source, because, as was pointed out, these can be overridden.
[11:21] <SteveA> it's a mistake on many different levels
[11:21] <WebMaven> Probably, but I may not be able to convince the ZAlchemy author of that.
[11:21] <SteveA> there is a password embedded in the source
[11:21] <SteveA> and it's encouraging configuration of zcml per-deployment
[11:22] <WebMaven> Yes, but that's OK if it's a default that is intended to be overridden (then the one in the source can just point to an unauthenticated sqllite connection)
[11:22] <SteveA> one solution is to replace "url=" with 'conf_file_thing="name used in launchpad.conf"'
[11:23] <SteveA> it's not OK for it to be a default intended to be overridden
[11:23] <WebMaven> SteveA: regarding configuration per deployment, yes, exactly.
[11:23] <SteveA> read up about MS sql server, and its problems with default passwords
[11:23] <WebMaven> that *is* the problem.
[11:24] <SteveA> the actual configuration should be in launchpad.conf
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[11:24] <SteveA> and the software configuration says "here's where you find the configuration in launchpad.conf"
[11:24] <SteveA> maybe the author can be convinced of that.
[11:24] <WebMaven> Well, zope.conf, in this case.
[11:25] <SteveA> yeah :-)
[11:25] <SteveA> or whatever conf file you're pointing the start-up script at
[11:25] <seb128> mpt: bug #78872
[11:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78872 in totem "Crash with wmv file" [Medium,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78872 - Assigned to Ubuntu Desktop Bugs (desktop-bugs)
[11:25] <seb128> bug #78813
[11:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78813 in libgnomeui "Ubuntu crashes since last update" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78813
[11:25] <SteveA> WebMaven: thanks for the idea for sponsoring pycon.  I had a talk with the organisers, and we'll be sponsoring at some level.
[11:26] <WebMaven> Very cool!
[11:28] <seb128> mpt: the problem with those is that there is not so many lines, there is just a thousand of chars line from the coredump of the crash
[11:30] <mpt> thanks seb128, reported bug 78911
[11:30] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
[11:30] <seb128> mpt: np, thank you for opening the bug ;)
[11:30] <WebMaven> SteveA: I think you're wrong about a default sqllite connection string being a problem. As far as I know, it doesn't give remote access.
[11:31] <WebMaven> ie: sqlite:///zalchemy.message.db
[11:31] <WebMaven> it's unauthenticated.
[11:33] <SteveA> WebMaven: it's a problem because it's encouraging people who don't know better to override it with authenticated information
[11:34] <WebMaven> Ah, in the app source. Yes.
[11:34] <SteveA> so, it's not a problem to have a default
[11:34] <SteveA> it's how you present overriding that default
[11:34] <WebMaven> But for my near-term purposes, I think I can just put an overriding ZCML file outside the package.
[11:35] <SteveA> sure, you can do that
[11:35] <Ubug2> New bug: #78911 in malone "Prohibit epic bug descriptions" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78911
[11:41] <WebMaven> I agree this is not ideal, but it's the way I have forward right now, given I can only ask the ZAlchemy maintainer for so much help.
[11:41] <WebMaven> Right now I need him to apply a two line patch that makes ISQLAlchemyContainer subclass IContainerNamesContainer instead of IContainer.
[11:41] <WebMaven> for example. 
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[11:58] <cprov> good morning, guys
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[12:05] <Ubug2> New bug: #78917 in rosetta "'Someone should review...' checkbox should not be mapped to gettext's fuzzy feature" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78917
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[12:22] <sabdfl> hey lunchpadders
[12:22] <sabdfl> is the lp voting system in good shape?
[12:22] <SteveA> http://www.visual-literacy.org/periodic_table/periodic_table.html  <-- nice page giving summary of different visualization techniques
[12:23] <SteveA> sabdfl: there's an oops to do with the default option, for which there's a fix that hasn't yet been rolled out.  other than that, it ought to be working fine.
[12:23] <SteveA> sabdfl: why do you ask?
[12:23] <sabdfl> CC and TB elections coming up
[12:23] <SteveA> stub: when can we get the polls oops-fix out?
[12:25] <SteveA> bug 76854
[12:25] <Ubug2> Malone bug 76854 in launchpad-bazaar "Launchpad does not understand bzr+ssh: urls" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76854 - Assigned to Elliot Murphy (emurphy)
[12:25] <SteveA> hmm, wrong one
[12:26] <SteveA> sabdfl: I'll ask that matsubara give it some QA love.  when are the elections starting?
[12:26] <sabdfl> next week or two
[12:26] <SteveA> ok
[12:30] <highvoltage> any Launchpad admins around? I need some information on hosting an Ubuntu derivative in LP.
[12:31] <SteveA> highvoltage: you can talk with kiko about that.  He'll be around in an hour or so.
[12:31] <highvoltage> SteveA: great. I'll do that. thanks
[12:50] <stub> SteveA: Either poll fixes have not landed, or their bugs where not critical, or nobody decided to request the cherry pick. I can do a cherrypick tomorrow if someone adds the relevant details to the wiki
[12:56] <matsubara> stub, SteveA: it has landed. I'll request the cherrypick.
[12:58] <SteveA> thanks matsubara 
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[01:04] <kiko> hey highvoltage 
[01:04] <highvoltage> hey kiko!
[01:05] <kiko> what's going on?
[01:05] <highvoltage> kiko: I'd like to know more about how an Ubuntu derivative can use Launchpad
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[01:06] <highvoltage> kiko: is there a process the maintainers should go through?
[01:06] <sabdfl> stevea, kikomatic, we on for this call?
[01:06] <highvoltage> kiko: I couldn't find much info about it on the ubuntu website or on launchpad itself
[01:06] <kiko> sabdfl, why not?
[01:06] <sabdfl> stub, matsubara: it doesn't need a cherrypick
[01:06] <kiko> highvoltage, okay. i have a call now, but the immediate answer is that you can use it for bug, spec and answer tracking right now
[01:07] <highvoltage> kiko: no problem, I'll bug you again later
[01:07] <kiko> highvoltage, you basically have available to you everything that upstream products have
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[01:14] <static> hello launchpadsters!
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[01:42] <PierreTramo> hi!
[01:43] <PierreTramo> i'd like to help the project by translating from English to French
[01:43] <PierreTramo> isn't this supposed to be done through Rosetta?
[01:43] <PierreTramo> I can't get how it works!
[01:44] <lifeless> PierreTramo: well, have you clicked through to the translation pages ?
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[02:15] <Ubug2> New bug: #78668 in Ubuntu "Unicode problem in the partition windows (dup-of: 1)" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78668
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[03:09] <poningru> how big can the password in launchpad be?
[03:11] <kiko> as big as you like
[03:12] <poningru> sweet
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[03:13] <poningru> sweet another thing over bugzilla
=== poningru goes to complain to justdave
[03:14] <kiko> poor justdave
[03:14] <kiko> poningru, is there a limit for bugzilla?!
[03:14] <poningru> 16
[03:14] <kiko> didn't know that and I wonder why that is
[03:14] <poningru> I dont know if thats a bugzilla thing or a bmo thing
[03:15] <kiko> since we store that as a hash in the bugzilla database anyway
[03:17] <poningru> kiko: you know justdave?
[03:18] <kiko> yeah, a long way back
[03:18] <kiko> I am a long-time bugzilla contributor
[03:18] <kiko> | cryptpassword  | varchar(128) | YES  |     | NULL                |                |
[03:18] <kiko> so we store a 128-char encrypted hash 
[03:19] <poningru> ah nice
[03:19] <kiko> that's in bugzilla
[03:20] <kiko> I don't see this 16-char limit you are referring to, poningru 
[03:21] <poningru> must be bmo then
[03:21] <poningru> eitherway complaining to justdave
[03:21] <kiko> odd.
[03:22] <kiko> poningru, maybe it's a limitation in the perl crypt() function.
[03:22] <kiko> we generate the salt and supply that and the raw password to crypt
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[04:05] <Ubug2> New bug: #78942 in launchpad "Redirection issue" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78942
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[04:16] <TeTeT> when submitting a bug via launchpad it would be useful to restrict the visibility of a bug when submitting it
[04:19] <salgado> TeTeT, there's a bug reported for that, but you can do it if you use the advanced file bug form
[04:20] <TeTeT> salgado: ok, will try
[04:22] <TeTeT> salgado: thanks, I see a checkbox for 'This bug is a security vulnerability' now
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[04:28] <lotusleaf> Hello, is there a way to remove the "Latest lotusleaf support requests" from my launchpad user page?
[04:28] <lotusleaf> I believe I tried some unsubscribe option but it didn't work
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[04:32] <doko> lifeless: can bzr use the elementtree included in python2.5?
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[04:56] <kNo`> hi all
[04:57] <kNo`> stupid question of the day: can I delete one of my projects in LP?
[04:57] <kNo`> (I know it's dumb)
[04:58] <doko> launchpad error, I get Accepted *and* Rejected messages (up to 3)
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[04:59] <salgado> kNo`, no, that's not possible today, although we can mark the product as disabled so that it doesn't show up anywhere
[04:59] <kNo`> salgado: thank you very much
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[05:35] <kiko> doko, it's best if you file a more precise bug report, or contact us through email with details
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[05:40] <doko> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/78955
[05:40] <Ubug2> Malone bug 78955 in launchpad "BOTH Accepted AND Rejected mails are sent " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
[05:40] <kiko> thanks doko
[05:41] <kiko> doko, perhaps attach two or three messages with full headers
[05:48] <doko> kiko: done
[05:48] <kiko> thanks!
[05:50] <Ubug2> New bug: #78955 in launchpad "BOTH Accepted AND Rejected mails are sent " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78955
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[06:06] <laszlok> is fix-it-friday still on, or has everyone gone home by now?
[06:06] <kiko> we never go home
[06:06] <laszlok> okay cool :)
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[06:08] <laszlok> heres what i want: under advanced search (for bugs) there is a people section and you can choose Doesn't matter, Nobody, or enter a name. Could I get a "Me" radio button there?
[06:08] <matsubara> speaking of Fix-it-friday, SteveA could you take a look at https://help.launchpad.net/TaggingLaunchpadBugs and approve the tags I proposed there?
[06:11] <matsubara> laszlok: if you want to browse your +assignedbugs, you can do it through https://launchpad.net/~<yourlaunchpadname>/+assignedbugs
[06:12] <laszlok> matsubara: but when i do that, things that have been marked fix committed still show up, and i consider those fixed so i dont want to see them
[06:12] <laszlok> thus i have to use advanced search
[06:17] <matsubara> laszlok: how a "Me" radio button would help you with that?
[06:19] <laszlok> because then i click advanced search, uncheck fix committed, click the "me" radio button and click search, instead of having to type in my name
[06:20] <laszlok> i know i could just spend the 5 seconds typing it, but launchpad already uses a "me" radio button when it asks you who to assign a bug to
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[06:30] <kiko> laszlok, also, +assignedbugs allows you to filter fix committed, did you know that?
[06:30] <matsubara> laszlok: well, you can bookmark that page, like: https://launchpad.net/~matsubara/+assignedbugs?field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress
[06:30] <laszlok> no i didnt kiko, how would i do that
[06:31] <matsubara> laszlok: the above URL only shows bugs assigned to me which are: unconfirmed, needs info, confirmed or in progress.
[06:32] <kiko> laszlok, click on "advanced" on +assignedbugs
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[09:25] <lifeless> doko: if it has the C module
[09:25] <doko> lifeless: python2.5 comes with its own implementation
[09:48] <mdke> SteveA: here by any chance?
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[10:25] <SteveA> mdke: kind of :-)
[10:25] <mdke> SteveA: couple of quick things.
[10:26] <mdke> SteveA: first of all, I saw your nice comments about Paolo Sammicheli's email to rosetta-users with the specs, and passed them onto him, he was really stoked
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[10:26] <mdke> SteveA: secondly, I wanted to ask whether there are any plans for LP providing its authentication service for websites, whether by openid or otherwise; newz told me you were the one to ask
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[10:27] <SteveA> I don't think I made any comments about the specs
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[10:29] <mdke> SteveA: well, someone stole your nick and did
[10:29] <SteveA> wow, maybe I'm writing in my sleep :-)
[10:29] <mdke> you mentioned to kiko that you were impressed about him having registered them and you hoped that his enthusiasm wouldn't go to waste, or something similar
[10:30] <mdke> I happened to catch it in the scrollback, so thought I'd pass them on
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[10:30] <SteveA> we're looking at making launchpad speak openid, at first just as a means to link together certain things we're running in the datacentre, and later on looking at how it makes sense to offer open id more widely
[10:31] <SteveA> oh, right.  Yeah, I saw them and passed it along for Kiko to look at, as kiko is more directly involved than me in rosetta development right now.
[10:31] <SteveA> so, thanks.  Didn't realize that had ended up public :-)
[10:31] <mdke> was in here
[10:31] <mdke> SteveA: tbh, within the datacenter would be a great start. Any idea of the sort of timescale?
[10:32] <SteveA> I'm expecting us to be internally testing stuff within the next 6 weeks
[10:33] <mdke> SteveA: oh wow, that's better news than I'd expected
[10:33] <SteveA> what kind of things do you have in mind for open id?
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[10:34] <mdke> SteveA: I'd like to be able to upgrade some of the wiki software, also maybe have auth for the Fridge, and hopefully, the various parts of the website of our locoteam
[10:35] <mdke> wiki.ubuntu.com and help.ubuntu.com/community still use Moin 1.3, seems that there is an unwillingness to upgrade because of the difficulty of migrating the authentication hack
[10:35] <mdke> apparently openid or similar would make that a lot easier
[10:36] <SteveA> well
[10:37] <SteveA> if there's stuff to integrate into launchpad's authentication, we can talk about doing that independendly of it using open id as a mechanism
[10:37] <SteveA> I don't want to carry forward the way we've done this in the past, though
[10:37] <mdke> right
[10:37] <SteveA> so, for moin, spiv wrote a patch for it (no really clean place to plug it in)
[10:38] <SteveA> but he's not involved in upstream development of moin
[10:38] <mdke> I'm told it would be a bad idea to try and update that for moin 1.5
[10:38] <SteveA> so the patch won't apply right now
[10:38] <mdke> right
[10:39] <SteveA> but, I do have a budget for working with someone who is involved in upstream development who is interested in maintaining our patch, essentially porting it to the latest moin, and keeping it up to date with latest developments
[10:39] <mdke> oh. I got the opposite impression :)
[10:39] <SteveA> so, if you know anyone who would be interested in some small compensation for keeping a small add-on working for us
[10:39] <SteveA> then I'm interested in talking with them
[10:40] <mdke> SteveA: the thing is, moin 1.6 will be out soon
[10:40] <SteveA> the idea would be it's someone who's already working on moin development
[10:40] <mdke> and if you will be implementing something clear within a reasonably short timescale, then it might not be worth updating the patch, no?
[10:40] <mdke> clear/clean
[10:41] <SteveA> so it wouldn't take them a lot of work to keep up with this, and keep the patch up to date with the current way moin works
[10:41] <SteveA> I really don't know how much the relevant parts of moin changed between 1.5 and 1.6
[10:42] <SteveA> but this fact alone shouldn't stand in the way of us offering a good wiki experience to ubuntu users
[10:43] <mdke> well, if you'd said "we'll be implementing something, but not for the next 12 months", I'd definitely agree
[10:43] <mdke> but the wiki experience is not so atrocious that it can't wait a couple of months
[10:43] <SteveA> do you know if there's an openid plugin for moin already?
[10:43] <mdke> no, but newz seemed to be under the impression that 1.6 would have one...
[10:43] <SteveA> because, I'd still like to work with moin upstream on making that suitable for use on our wikis too
[10:44] <SteveA> open id is meant for any party to work with any other party
[10:44] <mdke> right
[10:44] <SteveA> but, at least at first, we want the wikis to continue to work just with launchpad
[10:44] <mdke> sure
[10:44] <SteveA> so, the UI for authenticating can stay simpler -- no need to type in a full URL to your page on launchpad, for example
[10:45] <SteveA> using your launchpad username or email address would be fine
[10:45] <SteveA> so, there will still be some customization of moin
[10:45] <mdke> I'd be uncomfortable about any other way
[10:45] <SteveA> and rather than get launchpad devs to learn moin to do that
[10:45] <SteveA> I'd like to work with moin upstream
=== mdke nods
[10:45] <mdke> they are good guys, in my experience
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[10:45] <SteveA> if you know suitable people, get me talking with them :-)
[10:45] <SteveA> hi jml
[10:46] <jml> SteveA: hi
[10:46] <mdke> SteveA: alright, maybe the project leader would be the first person to ask
[10:46] <SteveA> 13:16 < SteveA> I want to make sure Paolo's motivation doesn't go to waste
[10:46] <SteveA> so I did say that :-)
=== mdke nods
[10:47] <SteveA> anyway, it's true.  I'm pleased when someone from our community of users takes the time to describe what they'd like, and registers it in launchpad as a blueprint, and tells us all about it on a mailing list
[10:47] <SteveA> it's a very positive way to contribute ideas and energy to the project
[10:47] <mdke> he's a good chap too
[10:50] <SteveA> so the same goes for authenticating things like the fridge
[10:50] <SteveA> I want to make a connection with someone from the upstream development of the software that we use for it
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[10:51] <SteveA> and arrange with them to maintain what we need for authentication, whether that's something custom for us, or an openid implementation
[10:51] <mdke> SteveA: it's drupal
[10:52] <mdke> SteveA: ok, that sounds really promising, if I can help you make contact I will
[10:52] <SteveA> thanks!
[10:53] <SteveA> so, drupal is in PHP?
[10:53] <mdke> yes
[10:53] <SteveA> we have no php expertise on the launchpad team
[10:54] <mdke> extraordinary
[10:54] <mdke> :)
[10:54] <mdke> even more reason to get upstream to do it
[10:54] <SteveA> I know that matt nuzum has some php expertise
[10:54] <SteveA> but he has lots of other stuff to do than write and maintain drupal add-ons
[10:54] <SteveA> so yeah
[10:54] <SteveA> it makes sense to talk with upstream
[10:55] <SteveA> and I hope it makes sense for them too
[10:55] <mdke> right
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