| [00:00] <kolby_> There's not really any college classes to take for open source developers are there? | |
| [00:07] <Laney> kolby_: Well it's more about getting stuck in than taking classes I suppose | |
| [00:40] <directhex> Laney, IMHO that's the case with free software work generally | |
| [00:40] <Laney> right, that's what I meant | |
| [00:41] <directhex> Laney, i didn't get my cushy linux sysadmin job, with root on a couple of million quid of kit, on the basis of stuff i learnt in classes. i got it on the basis of the linux mucking about i did instead of revising for exams! :) | |
| [00:42] <Laney> theory != practice | |
| [00:42] <directhex> well, yes. and so much of computing is a mix of both | |
| [00:42] <Laney> mhm | |
| [00:42] <Laney> kolby_: Pick a project, get your hands dirty :) | |
| [00:42] <directhex> purely practice and, well, you get the mess of people who answer linuxquestions or ubuntuforums posts with things involving --prefix=/ | |
| [00:43] <directhex> purely theory, and you go nowhere fast either | |
| [00:44] * Laney only knows theory ;) | |
| [00:44] <Laney> silly academia | |
| [00:44] <Laney> "When was the last time you ran one of your programs?" is a joke in our lab :S | |
| [00:44] <kolby_> what classes do you take? | |
| [00:44] <Laney> none - I'm doing a PhD ;) | |
| [00:44] <kolby_> amazing. | |
| [00:44] <directhex> pfft, bloody students | |
| [00:45] <Laney> quite | |
| [00:45] <directhex> bane of my sodding life, the lot of you | |
| [00:45] <kolby_> I have about... 1/2 a bachelor | |
| [00:45] * Laney files a support request with directhex | |
| [00:45] * directhex disparages Laney on rt-comment@ | |
| [00:46] <Laney> DATA PROTECTION REQUEST | |
| [00:46] <kolby_> is socket programming necessary for network programming? | |
| [00:47] <kolby_> or is it going too deep for simple game programming? | |
| [00:48] <directhex> Laney, certainWHOOPS, i got my SELECT and DROP the wrong way round in postgres | |
| [00:48] <directhex> kolby_, what kind of game? and i think we've deviated into #ubuntu-motu territory here | |
| [00:48] <Laney> it's OK, you have highly redundant backups... right?!?!? | |
| [00:49] <directhex> Laney, they were redundant, so i binned them! | |
| [00:49] <Laney> foiled again | |
| [00:49] <kolby_> directhex: so what is this channel for? | |
| [00:50] <Laney> I'd say it's something like Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | |
| [00:50] <kolby_> okay | |
| [00:50] <Laney> #ubuntu or a general programming channel | |
| [00:50] <directhex> better fit than here, albeit not ideal either | |
| [00:50] <directhex> this is the lair of scary people like jono. he can devour you in one bite! | |
| [00:50] <kolby_> maybe ##c | |
| [00:50] <kolby_> jono sounds like a cool enough guy. | |
| [00:51] <directhex> yeah, sure. but you'll go there without me. i don't do c. | |
| [00:51] <kolby_> I still haven't heard jono's metal. | |
| [00:51] <Laney> #haskell is where all the rock stars go to code | |
| === kolby_ is now known as directoct | |
| [00:51] <directoct> directhex: mwahahaha. | |
| [00:52] <jono> directhex, shame on you :P | |
| [00:52] * directhex tosses a bacon cookie @ jono | |
| [00:52] <jono> :) | |
| [00:53] <directhex> chocolatey AND meaty! | |
| [00:53] <directoct> Laney: haskell != game programmer friendly | |
| [00:53] <Laney> not necessarily | |
| [00:53] <directhex> c != friendly ;) | |
| [00:53] <directhex> all depends on what you're doing, and where your bottlenecks are, of course | |
| [00:54] <Laney> I wrote sudoku in it! | |
| [00:54] <directoct> directhex: that's about as unhealthy as these "deep fried chocolate covered twinkies" I saw at the state fair. | |
| [00:55] <directhex> bacon! http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/normal_IMG_0551.JPG | |
| [00:55] <directoct> sudoku... has the _potential_ to be resource intensive. | |
| [00:56] <directhex> pro-grade games are written in multiple languages | |
| === directoct is now known as kolby_ | |
| [00:56] <directhex> usually | |
| [00:56] <kolby_> pro-grade = something like wow? | |
| [00:56] <directhex> graphics engine in something like c, and all the game logic in something easier like lua, python, or a custom language (like unrealscript) | |
| [00:57] <kolby_> directhex: ohhhhh... | |
| [00:57] <kolby_> I should boiler-plate my code. | |
| [00:58] <kolby_> I suppose it has been a trend. | |
| [00:58] <directhex> as an example, Sid Meier's Civilization 4 uses Python 2.4 for all the game logic | |
| [00:58] <kolby_> directhex: you lie beautiful lies. | |
| [00:59] <directhex> /media/disk/Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/python24.dll: MS-DOS executable PE for MS Windows (DLL) (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit | |
| [01:01] <savvas> (Literal reply: take that!) | |
| [01:01] <kolby_> I have to tell you directhex, that's great news. | |
| [01:01] <savvas> :) | |
| [01:02] <directhex> many games use some Free Software somewhere | |
| [01:02] <kolby_> directhex: ...so where's the credit? | |
| [01:02] <directhex> kolby_, erm... hiding! | |
| [01:02] <directhex> kolby_, in the back of the manual, generally | |
| [01:03] <kolby_> why wasn't I informed about my nice open source dlls? | |
| [01:03] <savvas> the python license doesn't expect credit I think, right? | |
| [01:03] <directhex> dunno. i don't do python | |
| [01:03] <directhex> vorbis.dll is a common one to find - all unreal tournament games since 2003, and some others (e.g. grand theft auto san andreas) use vorbis | |
| [01:04] <kolby_> well... they credit their stupid middleware. | |
| [01:04] <directhex> as well as sony's singstar karaoke games for playstation | |
| [01:04] <kolby_> directhex: I'm sure neversoft used it for their games. | |
| [01:05] <directhex> possibly | |
| [01:06] <directhex> generally, game developers have obscene deadlines & budget limits. they just go for the easiest route - best balance of cost & time | |
| [01:06] <kolby_> directhex: nice wordpress site btw. | |
| [01:06] <directhex> sometimes they opt for vorbis, sometimes they pay for mp3. sometimes they use python or lua, sometimes they pay devs to write something in-house | |
| [01:06] <kolby_> strange cookies... | |
| [01:06] <directhex> a few devs are using mono now for console development | |
| [01:06] <directhex> and iphone | |
| [01:07] <kolby_> at least C# has mono developer's respect | |
| === krusaf|bnc is now known as krusaf | |
| [01:08] <kolby_> C# always seemed like M$'s answer to Sun's Java. | |
| [01:08] <directhex> to an extent, it is | |
| [01:09] <directhex> they got into trouble for making their "own" modified java, back in the early days of XP, so they took their ball & started their own game | |
| === moquist_ is now known as moquist | |
| [01:10] <kolby_> learning new launguages can be fun. Python was fun to learn. | |
| [01:11] <directhex> i disagree on principle with whitespace sensitivity | |
| [01:11] <kolby_> I like that idea. | |
| [01:12] <kolby_> don't think of it as forced style. Think of it as time well spent without "; punctuation" | |
| [01:13] <kolby_> plus the code does look pretty. | |
| [01:13] <directhex> hmm, i find python ugly | |
| [01:13] <directhex> i like my {}! | |
| [01:13] <kolby_> then again, I use underscores and full words in variabl names. | |
| === fta_ is now known as fta | |
| [01:18] <kolby_> dont me this: strange_function(crazy_array[x][y][z][r]); | |
| [01:18] <kolby_> s/me/mind | |
| [02:44] <bbechdol> Evening all | |
| [02:46] <Laney> Can someone unsubscribe u-m-s from bug #310349, please? | |
| [02:46] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 310349 in eog "eog does not handle nonadobe CMYK JPEGs correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310349 | |
| [02:46] <Laney> erm, bug #313049 even | |
| [02:46] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 313049 in smstools "Please merge smstools 3.1.3-1 from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313049 | |
| === j_ack_ is now known as j_ack | |
| [03:55] <ScottK-desktop> Laney: Done. | |
| [04:23] <superm1> tjaalton, the "upstream installer" for fglrx builds the same debs that you would get from the archive. (things that get uploaded to the archive are built with --buildpkg Ubuntu/source, while if you run it locally then --buildpkg Ubuntu/intrepid etc) | |
| [04:53] <android60> are there plans to add support for atheros 5007eg cards in jaunty via the madwifi hal 10.5.6 | |
| [04:53] <android60> ? | |
| [05:02] <atester> what packages do I need to install in order to get the binary nvidia drivers in Jaunty? | |
| === jonathan_ is now known as highvoltage | |
| === sepheebear is now known as Sepheebear | |
| [08:02] <tjaalton> superm1: ok, you may reopen those if you like :) | |
| === asac_ is now known as asac | |
| [13:19] <DktrKranz> StevenK, regarding bug 311706, TechBoard granted me upload privileges for SCons, is that sufficient to process the sync? | |
| [13:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 311706 in scons "Please sync scons 1.2.0-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311706 | |
| [13:20] <StevenK> DktrKranz: I guess so. I'll add it to the processing list | |
| [13:20] <DktrKranz> I don't know where uploads privileges are stored (no UI yet, IIRC) | |
| [13:22] <DktrKranz> StevenK, if you have some spare time, mind NEWing amule-adunanza backport for intrepid and hardy (binary packages)? | |
| === warp10_ is now known as warp10 | |
| [13:24] <StevenK> DktrKranz: Still dealing with the eleventy million syncs | |
| === fargiola` is now known as fargiolas | |
| [15:28] <superm1> tjaalton, well the ones i saw fly by were actually issues from jockey that are fixed by a jockey in -proposed, so it shouldn't be a big deal | |
| === winkle_ is now known as winkle | |
| [17:00] <tjaalton> superm1: oh, excellent | |
| [17:51] <jardi> hi all | |
| [17:52] <jardi> I want to submit a patch to launchpad, but I can't remember the right diff options to make a "good" patch | |
| [17:53] <Riddell> jardi: diff -urN | |
| [17:53] <Riddell> the -u is the important bit | |
| [17:55] <jardi> thanls Riddell | |
| [17:55] <jardi> -l+k | |
| === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler | |
| [18:46] <NCommander> cjwatson_, ping | |
| === lady_ is now known as lady | |
| [19:31] <stgraber> tjaalton: hey, I just upgraded to the ati/readon driver you uploaded today (?), did you see bug 311867 ? | |
| [19:31] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311867 | |
| [20:04] <tjaalton> stgraber: looks like another dupe of 311748 | |
| [20:07] <tjaalton> stgraber: or maybe not, but might be related | |
| [20:09] <stgraber> tjaalton: hmm, in 311748 X doesn't seem to crash | |
| [20:10] <tjaalton> stgraber: so in your case it returns to the console? | |
| [20:10] <stgraber> tjaalton: yes | |
| [20:11] <stgraber> tjaalton: well, it gets stuck half-initialized so I have to start X from ssh but starting it shows that undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc and exit | |
| [20:12] <tjaalton> stgraber: ok, sound odd since I can't see any dupes :) | |
| [20:13] <stgraber> tjaalton: well, the error message sounds like a linking issue (that's why I then mentioned that I'm on amd64) but it's clearly the switch to EXA that introduced the bug | |
| [20:16] <tjaalton> stgraber: ok, try building the driver without patch 104 and see if it helps | |
| [20:19] <stgraber> building it now | |
| [20:20] <stgraber> tjaalton: X starts just fine without 104 | |
| [20:24] <tjaalton> stgraber: ok then.. what if you force EXA from the conffile? | |
| [20:25] <stgraber> started just fine | |
| [20:25] <stgraber> (I added "Option" "AccelMethod" "EXA" to the Device section) | |
| [20:25] <tjaalton> so the patch is broken.. let's wait until bryce get's back :) | |
| [20:26] <stgraber> root@castiana:~/tmp1# grep EXA /var/log/Xorg.0.log | |
| [20:26] <stgraber> (**) RADEON(0): Option "AccelMethod" "EXA" | |
| [20:26] <stgraber> that's weird, I'd have thought it'd be more verbose and mention EXA more than one time | |
| [20:31] <Nafallo> Baby!!! \o/ | |
| [20:31] <Baby> hi Nafallo :))) | |
| [20:51] <tjaalton> bryce: stgraber confirmed that without ati patch 104 his X can start (bug 311867 | |
| [20:51] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311867 | |
| [20:53] <tjaalton> bryce: but forcing EXA by using AccelMethod in xorg.conf worked fine | |
| [20:54] <tjaalton> (huh, thought I was on #ubuntu-x) | |
| [20:55] <tjaalton> afk, BSG -> | |
| [21:34] <YokoZar> Popcon says Wine has more installs than sun java6 now | |
| [21:35] <YokoZar> (~39%) | |
| [21:43] <YokoZar> Is the new Gecko backwards compatible? | |
| [21:43] <YokoZar> oops wrong channel | |
| [21:48] <directhex> YokoZar, the number doesn't take into account the number of people using sin java for windows with wine! | |
| [21:52] <YokoZar> directhex: fair enough ;) | |
| [21:53] <directhex> hm. "sin java". typo or freudian slip? | |
| [21:53] <YokoZar> directhex: also doesn't count people using wine/firefox for windows flash | |
| [21:55] <directhex> cool kids use wine/msie for windows silverlight! | |
| [22:11] <NCommander> o_o; | |
| [22:11] <NCommander> directhex, IT BURNS | |
| [22:11] * NCommander has WINE installed for the Windows version of firefox ... | |
| [22:12] * directhex burns NCommander | |
| [22:12] <directhex> NCommander, progress with ikvm! it compiles! and runs! | |
| [23:31] <fta> stgraber, http://paste.ubuntu.com/98620/ | |
| [23:38] <stgraber> fta: thanks, applied. I don't really know why I changed it to parseString in commit 48 but it can't be a good reason (otherwise it'd be in the commit message) :) | |
| [23:40] <fta> stgraber, thanks. i read you wanted to release 0.11 about a month ago, i can't see it in jaunty. am i missing something? | |
| [23:40] <stgraber> fta: well, it's released. I'm just waiting on Debian to package it, then request the sync. | |
| [23:41] <stgraber> fta: if it's not soon, I'll just upload the new upstream myself. | |
| [23:41] <ebroder> Any core devs wiling to sponsor an upload for LP #216761 ? | |
| [23:41] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 216761 in xen-3.3 "errors in xendomains init script" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216761 | |
| [23:42] <stgraber> fta: or do a 0.11.1 with the few patches I received and then upload it :) | |
| [23:43] <fta> stgraber, and chance you can add a default action instead of showing usage ? i'm sick of adding "-i -" | |
| [23:44] <fta> stgraber, especially that it's not consistent... you can add "-i -" or "-f text" to work around the test. imho, it's useless. | |
| [23:47] <fta> (s/and/any) | |