2011/06/01/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

[00:00] <jasoncwarner> Alrighty! lets get started. First order of business....anyone sick? ;)
[00:00] <bryce> nope
[00:00] <TheMuso> No
[00:00] <TheMuso> Feeling great today, especially since the rain has stopped long enough for me to get out and do a bit of exercise.
[00:01] <jasoncwarner> awesome..
[00:01] <jasoncwarner> well, here we go then!
[00:01] <jasoncwarner> [TOPIC] X.org update
[00:02] <RAOF> We'll be getting a shiny new multiarched mesa post A1, with all the trimmings.
[00:03] <TheMuso> That makes me think of a big burger with all the trimmings. :)
[00:03]  * RAOF prefers to think of Christmas roast ham :)
[00:03] <TheMuso> Yeah that works, probably somewhat better given the weather.
[00:04] <bryce> xserver 1.10.2 was released just recently; I've been combing through it for any patches worth backporting for natty
[00:05] <jasoncwarner> anything for people to look for in x for A1 this week?
[00:05] <bryce> a lot of smaller X syncs have gone through this last week
[00:06] <bryce> and some not so small like libdrm 2.4.25
[00:06] <bryce> http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/versions-current.html
[00:07] <RAOF> There's a fully up-to-date nouveau DDX, but that's unlikely to cause problems.
[00:07] <bryce> -intel and -ati haven't gotten their update yet
[00:09] <jasoncwarner> ok...
[00:09] <bryce> anyway, so looks like X's foundational bits and pieces are pretty solid for now
[00:09] <jasoncwarner> how are the x guys feeling about A1 and A2? Anything for us to know now?
[00:09] <bryce> raof's mesa and a couple main driver updates to go
[00:10] <jasoncwarner> if not, we can move on !
[00:10] <bryce> for A1 is probably fine.
[00:10] <RAOF> I don't think X is going to be particularly interesting this cycle (yay!)
[00:11] <bryce> interestingly stable perhaps ;-)
[00:11] <jasoncwarner> RAOF: yay ;)
[00:11] <TheMuso> Which means you guys are likely going to be even more conservative for the LTS.
[00:11] <robert_ancell> I like that kind of interesting when it comes to X :)
[00:11] <TheMuso> I think many of us do.
[00:11] <bryce> RAOF, is -intel 2.15 in the cards for A1 or too late?
[00:12] <RAOF> I can do it today in between mesa builds :)
[00:12] <bryce> that'd be great
[00:13] <jasoncwarner> sounds good....how about LightDM ? robert_ancell, want to update us?
[00:13] <RAOF> Mesa's not going to make A1; it needs an llvm mir, which needs checking that openjdk works with it.  And openjdk takes a snappy 13 hours to build and test here.
[00:13] <TheMuso> RAOF: youch
[00:13] <jasoncwarner> RAOF: whaaaaa?
[00:14] <jasoncwarner> didn't realize llvm required openjdk
[00:14] <RAOF> It doesn't; openjdk has an llvm-based jit runtime, which needs testing against the newer llvm.
[00:14] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, ok, it's not going to make A1, as it's blocked waiting for a MIR.  You can install it now, I've been running it for the last week or so.  Feedback welcome!  There is a start on the design from the Design team, it was being done by Pippa who has now moved on.  Not sure who is taking it over, will track that down.
[00:14]  * TheMuso wonders whether a couple of us Aussies could pool our boxen to create a distributed build environment, where we upload packages, and the workload is shared over fast boxen to build stuff quicker...
[00:15] <robert_ancell> I'm also writing a LightDM+Ubuntu wiki page today with debugging tips and what to do if everything goes wrong.   Then going to twist everyone's arm who is not running it already to be guinea pigs
[00:16] <jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: what is blocking the MIR ? do we need to talk to someone about that?
[00:16] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, not sure, it's just sitting there.  pitti knows most about MIRs
[00:17] <TheMuso> I remember looking at it and the security team were asked to look at it, in the form of being the assignees.
[00:17] <jasoncwarner> Ok, we can follow up with him tonight
[00:17] <TheMuso> So I think the MIR guys want the security team's approval.
[00:17] <jasoncwarner> robert_ancell: can you follow up and I will as well
[00:17] <robert_ancell> ok, will do
[00:17] <jasoncwarner> thanks
[00:18] <jasoncwarner> anyone install lightdm yet? I'm upgrading my laptop to Oneiric today and will be putting lightdm in there ;)
[00:18] <micahg> the MIR is at security review ATM, I'll ask kees to take a look
[00:18] <jasoncwarner> awesome, thanks micahg!
[00:18] <TheMuso> Not upgraded to lightdm yet, I am still using a oneiric vm, so I can iron out a11y gotchas before I upgrade to oneiric on my real hardware.
[00:19] <RAOF> I've installed lightdm; it was entirely uneventful.
[00:19] <jasoncwarner> RAOF: awesome...that is what I'm hoping for in my upgrade as well ;)
[00:19] <RAOF> Although this morning I noticed that it doesn't seem to implement all the interfaces gnome-screensaver expects.
[00:19] <RAOF> Hitting the “Switch user” button at the lock screen fails.
[00:20] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, you can run lightdm from a PPA in natty (I'm still on natty)
[00:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yes, needs implementing
[00:20] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: I have every intension of upgrading to oneiric, I just need to make sure the new a11y stack works as expected.
[00:21] <jasoncwarner> TheMuso: how is accessibility coming in Oneiric? Any showstoppers you know about yet?
[00:21] <RAOF> Also this morning I noticed that the new gnome-screensaver doesn't know how to fight with XRandR properly.
[00:22] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Right, accessibility.
[00:22] <TheMuso> Well as you know from the page already, the new stack is in main, it just needs to be turned on. Doing so requires adjusting seeds/deps, which I will be doing post alpha 1.
[00:22] <TheMuso> I also have Qt a11y patches in hand, and will be testing them today, although I am still waiting on one patch which I am told is not yet in the public Qt git repo. Will likely not be getting that till next week.
[00:22] <jasoncwarner> Ok, so post A1 when they are turned on should we get people testing them right away or is there some other work needed?
[00:23] <jasoncwarner> ah, Qt, that was my next question ;)
[00:23] <jasoncwarner> thanks for getting there ahead of me!
[00:23] <TheMuso> Re Qt, I also need to get the qt at-spi bridge into the archive, once I have worked out which Debian team will be responsible for maintaining it.
[00:23] <jasoncwarner> TheMuso: are those the 4.8 Qt patches backported to 4.7 Qt?
[00:23] <TheMuso> jasoncwarner: Yes, the great thing is that they apply almost 100% cleanly against 4.7.3.
[00:24] <TheMuso> Re at-spi2, once its turned on, I will be testing it, and I can certainly write some quick instructions for others to test, but as I said, I need to make sure all the obvious issues are worked out, in terms of the stack not starting etc.
[00:25] <jasoncwarner> yes, but that is great. I'm watching this one closely so thank you for updating .... want to make sure U2D is fully accessible and we get what we need backported to 4.7
[00:25] <jasoncwarner> thanks
[00:25] <jasoncwarner> Very cool, Anyone else have anything?
[00:25] <TheMuso> np, I have already talked to didrocks, he is aware that I have them, and has asked me to pass on the pathces when I think things are ready, which hopefully will be no later than end of next week.
[00:26] <jasoncwarner> Ok..going to call the meeting [END MEETING] Thank you everyone...
[00:27] <TheMuso> Thanks,.
[00:27] <jasoncwarner> now I am going to upgrade to oneiric on my test system :) wish me luck!
[00:27] <TheMuso> Now to wait 2 hours more for another build of Qt...
[00:29] <bryce> jasoncwarner, good luck :-)
[00:31] <micahg> xubuntu will be switching to lightdm right after alpha1
[00:31] <robert_ancell> micahg, \o/
[00:31] <micahg> xubuntu isn't blocked on the MIR :)
[00:31] <robert_ancell> which greeter?
[00:32] <micahg> probably the example-gtk one for now
[00:32]  * micahg isn't sure though
[00:32] <micahg> I've been using the example-gtk one and it's been working fine
[00:33] <micahg> it's GTK 2 which works well for xubuntu
[00:35] <TheMuso> micahg: When does xfce plan to move to GTK3? 4.10?
[00:36] <micahg> TheMuso: I think 4.12
[00:36] <TheMuso> Oh ok.
[00:36]  * micahg checks logs
[00:36] <TheMuso> Just curious.
[00:37] <micahg> TheMuso: yeah, 4.12, http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
[00:37] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[00:38] <micahg> so, we're going to be stuck with GTK2 (xfce) and GTK3 (shared already ported apps)
[00:41] <TheMuso> Fun.
[01:19] <TheMuso> haha managed to lock up GNOME panel in oneiric, which seems to have locked the whole desktop.
[01:20] <TheMuso> ...and it seems GNOME apnel 3 is not customizable...
=== asac_ is now known as asac
[05:34] <pitti> Good morning
[05:37] <cdbs> Bonjour pitti
[05:39] <pitti> robert_ancell: right, the lightdm MIR is assigned to ubuntu-security, waiting for their review
[05:39] <robert_ancell> pitti, ah, thanks
[05:56] <TheMuso> Good morning pitti.
[05:56]  * TheMuso has a simple Qt app being read with Orca. :)
[05:57] <micahg> TheMuso: congrats :)
[05:57] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[05:57] <pitti> TheMuso: ooh, that sounds like good progress!
[05:57] <TheMuso> micahg: I didn't do much, just put the infrastructure together.
[05:58] <TheMuso> pitti: Certainly is. Still got some rough edges, and this is only a very simple example app, but menus are mostly working without issue, buttons, check boxes, radio buttons, and combo boxes, althought he example code segfaulted when trying a combo box. :)
[05:58] <TheMuso> TExt fields, either multiline or single line are still not speaking.
[06:03] <micahg> does unity-2d not have the same super keybindings?
[06:04] <micahg> super+a specifically
[06:05]  * TheMuso hasn't checked, and just powered off his oneiric vm...
[06:05] <micahg> this is natty
[06:08] <TheMuso> Still don't know. :)
[06:09]  * micahg will wait for didrocks
[06:09] <micahg> or does he only do 3D
[06:09] <TheMuso> Afaik he will be doing 2d as well.
[06:09] <micahg> k
[07:40] <cdbs> TheMuso: Congrats, Qt + a11y would be awesome!
[07:54] <didrocks> good morning o/ (after spending 20 minutes to connect to the Internet!)
[07:55] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: oh, NM problems?
[07:55] <RAOF> didrocks: It's unusually slow today? ;)
[07:55] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you? :)
[07:55] <didrocks> hey RAOF!
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: FYI: "kvm -vga std" FTW
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: with that unity-2d works wonderfully, yay for easy testing
[07:55] <didrocks> pitti: no, I didn't upgraded at all yesterday, so I was thinking of the ADSL box first
[07:55] <didrocks> pitti: trying to unactivate/reactivate the wifi, restarting it…
[07:55] <pitti> didrocks: I'm a bit tired, but okay otherwise, thanks! looking forward to the long weekend
[07:55] <didrocks> pitti: unloading/loading the network module
[07:56] <pitti> eww
[07:56] <didrocks> the 3rd unload/load worked :/
[07:56] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, long weekend just ahead!
[07:56] <didrocks> (I will probably work tomorrow but exchange Thursday to Friday)
[07:57] <didrocks> and thanks on the kvm trick :)
[08:06] <seb128> hey
[08:06] <cdbs> good morning seb128
[08:06] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:06] <seb128> hey didrocks cdbs
[08:12] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:12] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:14] <pitti> nice, so I get a somehow working install in both kvm and on the mini 10
[08:14] <pitti> unity-2d is crashy as hell, though
[08:15] <pitti> but oh well, this is a1; it installs, it works!
[08:16] <seb128> ;-)
[08:16] <pitti> seb128: btw, please don't upload the current rhythmbox bzr; I backported the patches, and it builds, but crashes on startup
[08:16] <seb128> ok
[08:16] <pitti> git head doesn't crash, but make dist fails because the vala plugin is totally busted
[08:17] <seb128> does the archive version work for you?
[08:17] <pitti> yes
[08:17] <cdbs> pitti: You're talking about Oneiric? No, it isn't crashy for me, it never crashed since the last week
[08:17] <pitti> cdbs: yes, current oneiric
[08:17] <cdbs> pitti: My system has 30+ held packages
[08:17] <pitti> cdbs: I can't open the launcher (neither with click nor Windows key), nor places
[08:17] <pitti> they just keep crashing
[08:17] <cdbs> pitti: unity-2d?
[08:17] <pitti> both in live session and in installed version, both on real iron and in kvm
[08:18] <pitti> cdbs: yes, as I said
[08:18] <pitti> unity 3d works fine
[08:18]  * cdbs boots into -2d
[08:18] <pitti> cdbs: but not really concerning for this early stage
[08:19] <pitti> seb128: rhythmbox git head doesn't have a .convert script for gconf->gsettings; it should, right?
[08:19] <seb128> pitti, if there are configuration values to migrate yes
[08:19] <pitti> seb128: do you know if the i386 archive version (which did build) works for anyone?
[08:20] <cdbs> now that's insane crashing
[08:20] <seb128> pitti, it was a no change rebuild over the previous one
[08:20] <seb128> which works here
[08:20] <seb128> let me try to update
[08:20] <pitti> seb128: right, but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/2.90.1~20110329-1ubuntu2 did build on i386
[08:20] <pitti> and so did ubuntu3
[08:20] <pitti> but neither built on amd64
[08:21] <seb128> oh right, libdmapsharing was ftfbs-ing on amd64 due to the builder stopping implicit conversions error
[08:22] <pitti> ah, and 2.9.12 only hit the archive on Monday
[08:22] <pitti> after rhythmbox got built on i386
[08:22] <seb128> right, that was the easy way to fix the build issue ;-)
[08:23] <pitti> ok, so supposedly a build of rb on i386 will crash as well then
[08:23] <seb128> the current archive version work
[08:23] <pitti> seb128: thanks for checkin
[08:23] <pitti> g
[08:23] <seb128> well, a build on i386 will not build
[08:23] <seb128> or you mean a vcs build?
[08:23] <pitti> the one in bzr head ought to build
[08:23] <seb128> I can try to build the vcs
[08:24] <seb128> pitti, it's building, I will tell you that in 5 minutes
[08:25] <seb128> pitti, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/72737306/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-amd64.gnome-keyring_3.0.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[08:25] <pitti> meh
[08:26] <pitti> doesn't happen locally :/
[08:26] <pitti> I'll retry the build and compare logs
[08:26] <seb128> ok, could be the same that last time where the retry worked
[08:26] <seb128> but at least you can save the log from before retrying this time
[08:27] <pitti> yes, got it
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: I used unity-2d for a whole 2 days without any crash on real hw, weird :/
[08:31] <didrocks> but yeah, good enough for alpha1
[08:31] <pitti> I just wondered why my mini 10 gives me 2d, not unity 3d
[08:31] <didrocks> oh?
[08:31] <pitti> in natty it got 3d
[08:32] <didrocks> /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
[08:32]  * didrocks hopes nux-tools is still installed
[08:32] <didrocks> (yeah, unity deps on it)
[08:33] <didrocks> oh, the timeout is shorter (I took the 3s of upstream one)
[08:33] <pitti> didrocks: that says yes
[08:33] <didrocks> not anymore the 5s that I took… randomly
[08:33] <didrocks> so you should timeout I guess
[08:33] <didrocks> I'll reset to 5s though
[08:33] <didrocks> wants an upload pre or post alpha1?
[08:34] <pitti> post is fine, I think
[08:34] <pitti> didrocks: is ther any magic string to search in xsessin-errors?
[08:34] <didrocks> if you logout and login again, as the file is in ram, it shold work
[08:34] <didrocks> pitti: not without --debug to gnome-session
[08:34] <pitti> didrocks: the first hit of "unity" is "unity-2d-launcher: [DEBUG] virtual void Hotkey::... stuff
[08:35] <didrocks> pitti: let me look again the code, not sure if I set a warning
[08:35] <seb128> it should display something even without --debug iirc
[08:36] <seb128> well it used to in natty
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: second time is 2d as well, but presumably it's now in my ~/.dmrc?
[08:36] <pitti> oh, it's not
[08:36] <didrocks> pitti: no it's not, weird :/
[08:36] <pitti> so why does gdm show "unity 2d" then
[08:36] <didrocks> yeah, it's a g_warning
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: "runnable check failed"
[08:37] <didrocks> oh
[08:37] <didrocks> gdm choose unity-2d by default?
[08:37] <pitti> unity --replace does work
[08:37] <didrocks> hum, possible indeed, I didn't remove that part
[08:37] <didrocks> yeah, I got it
[08:37] <didrocks> I need to fix something in unity-2d
[08:38] <didrocks> as they move the -settings in unity-2d, I think it still has the thing to set the session by default
[08:38] <pitti> changing it in gdm also works
[08:38] <pitti> ah
[08:38] <didrocks> confirmed, that's the case
[08:38] <pitti> so it didn't even try the nux support test
[08:38] <pitti> it's autologin here
[08:38] <didrocks> right, the default session is unity-2d
[08:38] <pitti> didrocks: that might also explain why the live session used 2d?
[08:39] <pitti> didrocks: want a bug report, or do you want to fix right away?
[08:39] <didrocks> pitti: fixing right away
[08:39]  * pitti hugs didrocks, cheers
[08:39]  * didrocks hugs pitti back, sorry for not thinking about that
[08:39] <pitti> no need to worry
[08:40] <pitti> that's why have alphas, to test this stuff :)
[08:40] <pitti> didrocks: think about it as "the alpha to test unity 2d by default"
[08:40] <seb128> pitti, rb from the vcs work on i386
[08:40] <didrocks> pitti: heh :-)
[08:40] <pitti> seb128: oh, wow
[08:40] <pitti> seb128: thanks for testing
[08:40] <seb128> pitti, (you need to update the libdmapsharing build-depends)
[08:41] <seb128> pitti, do you have a stacktrace of the crash you are getting?
[08:43] <pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/615663/
[08:44] <pitti> (cut after #45, too tiresome to copy&paste pagewise
[08:45] <pitti>  the only hit for importing the old gtk that I see is plugins/coherence/upnp_coherence/__init__.py
[08:45] <pitti> but I don't have that installed
[08:49] <seb128> pitti, oh, I don't have rhythmbox-plugins-coherence installed
[08:49] <pitti> neither have I
[08:50] <seb128> do you have gir1.2-rb-0.13?
[08:52] <pitti> yes, it's a dependency
[08:52] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, ok, got it
[08:52] <pitti> I'll debug it now
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, it's rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
[08:52] <pitti> ah, gtk2
[08:52] <seb128> uninstall it and rb works
[08:52] <pitti> so that needs porting to gi
[08:52] <seb128> right
[08:52] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[08:52] <pitti> whee
[08:53] <didrocks> morning rodrigo_
[08:53] <pitti> TypeError: an integer is required
[08:53] <pitti> but trunk has a patch for that (and it doesn't crash the entire program)
[08:53] <Sweetshark> Good Morning Desktopers!
[08:53] <didrocks> hey Sweetshark
[08:53] <Sweetshark> also: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/what-the-heck-is-happening-with-openoffice-update/9025
[08:53] <seb128> ok, so maybe backport that as well?
[08:53] <pitti> I'll fix that as well, and add a Breaks: to the current rb-ubuntu-m-s, ok?
[08:53] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[08:53] <pitti> hey Sweetshark
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: oh, it's out?
[08:53] <pitti> sorry
[08:53] <pitti> Sweetshark: oh, it's out?
[08:54] <seb128> pitti, seems fine, don't forget to update the libdmapsharing build-depends ;-)
[08:54] <pitti> seb128: to what? configure.ac doesn't have a versioned test
[08:54] <pitti> we want to enforce 2.9.12?
[08:54] <seb128> pitti, the patches you backported do enforce the new api
[08:54] <pitti> ah
[08:54] <seb128> pitti, to the debian control
[08:55] <Sweetshark> pitti: see the note at the end "UPDATE: Sources tell me that Apache has decided to take on OpenOffice. I expect to see the official word come out this week. It may be as early as tomorrow."
[08:55] <pitti> seb128: at it; thanks for finding the u1-m-s issue!
[08:55] <seb128> yw
[09:00] <rodrigo_> hmm, for the rb-u1 plugin it's tricky, as it uses libu1, like banshee-u1, so both rb and banshee need porting to gtk3 at the same time
[09:01] <pitti> Sweetshark: if apache does get it, do you think it's realistic to re-merge LibO/OO.o?
[09:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, not going to happen
[09:01] <seb128> rodrigo_, but we could have 2 version of the lib and use a different in each?
[09:01] <seb128> like a gtk2 and a gtk3 build
[09:01] <rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I think so
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:04] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: I'll upload it now, as it's not on any image
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - good thanks, how are you?
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, ok
[09:05] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:05]  * asac is caught in a state where unity doesnt hide the launcher/side-bar ... anyone wants any info ;)?
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti
[09:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks
[09:05] <seb128> asac, you use tb or some qt software and did a dnd?
[09:05] <asac> hmm
[09:05] <asac> could be qt ... i am using mumble
[09:05] <seb128> asac, try doing a dnd again of one of the messages in thunderbird
[09:05] <asac> err
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i got the new version of thunderbird ready last night (complete with language packs to replace the ones provided by thunderbird-locales), but i hit a bit of an issue...
[09:05] <asac> twinkle ;)
[09:05] <seb128> or in your qt application
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> ...thunderbird-locales has an epoch in the version ;)
[09:05] <asac> how can i recover?
[09:05] <asac> killall compiz?
[09:06] <seb128> asac, do a new dnd
[09:06] <asac> let me try
[09:06] <seb128> or close mumble
[09:06] <seb128> didrocks, ^ is there a known working workaround for the qt autohide bug?
[09:06] <asac> hmm. i dragged inside mumble and it didnt help :/
[09:06] <asac> i will cloes it mumble
[09:06] <didrocks> seb128: no, there is none unfortunatly :/
[09:06] <asac> oh really
[09:06] <asac> the sidebar is gone
[09:06] <asac> stupid qt
[09:07] <didrocks> sometimes, dragging something else worked
[09:07] <didrocks> but not very often
[09:07] <asac> i always knew that gtk+ is much better
[09:07] <asac> ok on a call
[09:07] <asac> ;)
[09:07] <seb128> ;-)
[09:07] <didrocks> heh, asac:-)
[09:08] <seb128> asac, if you use chrome,chromium users state on the bug that detaching and re-attaching a tab fixes the launcher
[09:08] <seb128> asac, bug #769703 for the record
[09:08] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 769703 in unity "Unity launcher does not auto hide when dragging music in clementine or other Qt softwares" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/769703
[09:08] <didrocks> seb128: didn't work for me, I tried that as well
[09:09] <seb128> didrocks, you wrote that code, you should know what reset the states :p
[09:09] <didrocks> seb128: I know what reset the states
[09:09] <didrocks> nothing :)
[09:09] <seb128> you should write a dbus interface that you can use to do that :p
[09:09] <didrocks> we should make a dbus call as a workaround maybe
[09:09]  * didrocks high 5's seb128
[09:09] <seb128> ;-)
[09:09] <seb128> didrocks, great minds... ;-)
[09:10] <didrocks> exactly :-)
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks, can you sponsor evolution-exchange today? ;-)
[09:18] <didrocks> seb128: sure, is it needed for alpha1? (I mean, it can't be installed?)
[09:19] <didrocks> I'll try to focus on the compiz SRU (but refrain the upload post apha1)
[09:19]  * pitti merges doko's uncommitted rb upload and reuploads
[09:28] <seb128> didrocks, no, but it's a soft freeze and that's a minor bug fix update, but feel free to delay if you have other things to do
[09:28] <didrocks> seb128: preparing compiz first
[09:28] <seb128> ok
[09:28] <didrocks> updating all bugs report and such
[09:34] <pitti> dobey: are you guys still interested in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store? (it doesn't work with rhythmbox/gtk3 any more)
[09:42] <alex3f> mvo: morning
[09:43] <rodrigo_> pitti, he's probably sleeping now :)
[09:43] <pitti> rodrigo_: right, but Rodney is pretty good at reading backscroll
[09:44] <rodrigo_> yeah, true :)
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: cdbs doesn't have /usr/lib/cdbs/strip-schema.pl anymore?
[09:46] <pitti> didrocks: no; it has always been meant to be an internal implementation detail..
[09:46] <pitti> didrocks: dh_translations does that now
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: hum, compiz is using it :/
[09:46] <pitti> "Use dh_translations, Luke!"
[09:47] <didrocks> ok, so let's focus on the SRU first? then I'll change that for oneiric?
[09:47] <pitti> *nod*
[09:47] <mvo> hey alex3f, good morning
[09:47] <pitti> (in meeting, sorry for being terse)
[09:47] <didrocks> pitti: no worry ;)
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, better, switch to gsettings ;-)
[09:48] <didrocks> seb128: ahah, let's wait for upstream to get there (and they will still want to build the gconf backend I guess)
[09:51] <alex3f> mvo: 1824 works, but i get some warnings about deprecated access to package.(section, summary and description) - that's because I have previously changed db.update
[09:52] <alex3f> I will try to fix the _pkg leakage
[09:52] <mvo> thanks alex3f! much appreciated, I know its tedious work
[09:52] <seb128> didrocks, is your script changing the status of all the crashers or only those which didn't get tweaked before?
[09:52] <alex3f> I'm quite enjoying it :)
[09:54] <didrocks> seb128: all crashers are critical, that's what I have been told during the UDS session, I raised the point of those which get tweaked before, but apparently, they wanted still them to be critical
[09:56] <dholbach> hey :)
[09:57] <dholbach> it seems like logging into unity on oneiric gives me some kind of weird gnome desktop - does anybody know why? (this is a oneiric vm)
[09:57] <dholbach> unity 2d gives me "something went wrong. (oops.)"
[09:57] <seb128> hey
[09:57] <didrocks> dholbach: is it the live or an upgrade?
[09:57] <seb128> dholbach, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/759803
[09:57] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 759803 in unity-2d "Unity-2d not working on KVM with xen and cirrus video devices" [High,Confirmed]
[09:57] <seb128> dholbach, but was it working before ?
[09:58] <didrocks> yeah, if its the live (and so, you are using unity-2d by default)
[09:58] <dholbach> didrocks, i installed natty in a vm and upgraded it
[09:58] <didrocks> ok, same case, so it's the crash on KVM
[09:58] <seb128> dholbach, "weird gnome desktop" is GNOME3 I guess :p it's better if you install gnome-theme-standard and select a background in the control-center
[09:59] <seb128> dholbach, cf my GNOME3 email on the lists yesterday
[09:59] <dholbach> seb128, I don't care about the desktop background :)
[09:59] <seb128> dholbach, so what do you complain about? ;-) what did you have in natty?
[09:59] <dholbach> but yeah, let me install the package
[10:00] <seb128> dholbach, dx didn't work on a gtk3 theme yet so we don't have an ubuntu theme for oneiric which is mostly gtk3 on the default desktop components
[10:01] <seb128> didrocks, ok, if that's what dx wants...
[10:01] <seb128> didrocks, it's their bugs
[10:01] <dholbach> oh, I was just wondering if that's "how it's supposed to be" - that none of the unitys works in oneiric vms :)
[10:01] <dholbach> I'm not complaining
[10:01] <seb128> it's a bit stupid because it means they can't raise frequent issues over things that happened once to one user
[10:01] <didrocks> seb128: right
[10:01] <didrocks> seb128: that was my point
[10:01] <seb128> blame it on njpatel then ;-)
[10:02] <seb128> dholbach, unity-2d is supposed to work but there is a bug in unity-2d or qt which makes it not
[10:02] <dholbach> alright
[10:02] <dholbach> no worries
[10:02] <seb128> Kaleo and agateau are on it
[10:02] <didrocks> seb128: I don't blame, I just did what I was asked for :)
[10:03] <seb128> well I think njpatel doesn't realize what he asks for :p
[10:03] <seb128> but fair enough
[10:03] <didrocks> I raised the estimate number during the session
[10:03] <Kaleo> seb128: actually we are not :)
[10:03] <dholbach> I'm just glad I can open more than one terminal again - a few days ago I had to use the recovery console which was not a lot of fun for doing sponsoring, etc on oneiric :)
[10:04] <pitti> dholbach: it looks weird (-> kvm -vga std) or it crashes (that happens for everyone apparently)
[10:04] <seb128> Kaleo, is somebody else on it?
[10:04] <Kaleo> seb128: nope
[10:04] <seb128> Kaleo, that seems somewhat an issue?
[10:04] <dholbach> pitti, unity-2d seems to crash ("something went wrong, log out")
[10:04] <Kaleo> seb128: I would like to see if a regular Qt app crashes or not
[10:04] <didrocks> Kaleo: you should be safe now, all first sync done for bugs
[10:04] <pitti> dholbach: right, that happens all the time :/
[10:04] <Kaleo> didrocks: thanks
[10:04] <seb128> dholbach, if you were running oneiric like real men you could do sponsoring without having to use a vm ;-)
[10:04] <pitti> dholbach: it's a bit better with "kvm -vga std", though
[10:05] <pitti> then it only crashes the dash and places, but the launcher stays
[10:05] <pitti> lol
[10:06] <dholbach> seb128, who else is part of your "real men" club?
[10:07] <seb128> dholbach, didrocks, pitti, chrisccoulson, rodrigo_, not sure about mvo :p
[10:07] <dholbach> seb128, mvo still didn't upgrade to natty - he still runs it in a vm
[10:07] <didrocks> dholbach: see, desktop team is rocking! :p
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[10:07] <Kaleo> is there a nice tutorial to get kvm with cirrus up and running?
[10:07] <pitti> Kaleo: it's the default
[10:07] <rodrigo_> real men?
[10:08] <rodrigo_> ah, for upgrading to oneiric :)
[10:08] <pitti> Kaleo: kvm -m 1024 -cdrom oneiric-desktop-i386.iso
[10:08] <pitti> Kaleo: that will use cirrus
[10:08] <Kaleo> pitti: ok
[10:08] <pitti> Kaleo: if you add -vga std, it works (that's just a simple VBE 2.0 card)
[10:09] <Kaleo> pitti: and what about other Qt programs?
[10:09] <pitti> do we have a small one which comes with some libqt* for testing?
[10:11] <Kaleo> pitti: clementine maybe
[10:11] <pitti> Kaleo: -vga vmware also works (that's the graphics card vmware emulates)
[10:11] <pitti> clicking on the launcher still crashes, though (that doesn't seem to be graphics card specific, I also get that on intel real iron)
[10:11] <Kaleo> pitti: so, it's just cirrus that does not work (and xen maybe?)
[10:11] <pitti> reportedly so, yes
[10:12] <Kaleo> pitti: you get a crash of the launcher on real iron
[10:12] <Kaleo> pitti: do you have a stack trace for that
[10:12] <Kaleo> ?
[10:12] <pitti> hang on, will generate an apport repot
[10:13] <Kaleo> pitti: qt4-demos is also a very good candidate for testing, it contains many small programs
[10:13] <mvo> seb128: hm? I don't need to prove that I'm a real man by running oneiric, everyone known I'm a real man anyway ;)
[10:13] <mvo> dholbach: I use lucid, LTS ftw!
[10:13] <dholbach> yeah, I know
[10:13] <seb128> mvo, the real men (tm) use wmaker as well
[10:13] <mvo> dholbach: you know, seb128 showed me his windowmaker setup, that was pretty cool
[10:13] <mvo> now I use it too
[10:13] <seb128> \o/ ;-)
[10:13] <mvo> big buttons, laucnher on the left
[10:14] <mvo> far ahead of its time!
[10:14] <seb128> no launcher autohidde weird behaviour
[10:14] <mvo> plus unusual menus
[10:14] <mvo> exactly!
[10:14] <dholbach> you mean the new windomaker? where the unity dash is on the right with the fat paperclip icon?
[10:14]  * mvo hugs seb128
[10:14] <seb128> you can get monitors in the dock
[10:14]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[10:14] <mvo> right, that as well
[10:16] <pitti> Kaleo: hm, default stack trace is rather useless, and we don't have a retracer yet
[10:16]  * pitti tries to install some debug symbols
[10:16] <njpatel> seb128, didrocks sorry?
[10:16] <pitti> but this is totally not hw specific; boot the oneiric alpha-1 anywhere (kvm, real iron, etc.), and click on the bfb
[10:16] <didrocks> njpatel: the "all crashers are critical" spew 96 bugs as critical right now
[10:16] <dholbach> Kaleo, with "-vga std" I managed to run qterm in an oneiric vm - not sure if that counts
[10:17] <pitti> -vga std also runs unity-2d, though
[10:17] <didrocks> njpatel: we discussed that some can be low/high and not critical but the plan was to reset all of them to critical
[10:17] <dholbach> ah yes, right
[10:17] <pitti> I thought Kaleo's question was whether qt apps run with cirrus?
[10:17] <Kaleo> pitti: correct
[10:17] <dholbach> let me try that
[10:17] <Kaleo> dholbach: :)
[10:17] <didrocks> njpatel: maybe worth now to consider that all crashers != medium (so manually changed) to keep their state?
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|afk
[10:18] <njpatel> didrocks, awesome. I think a crash is only not critical if there is no way to fix it (smashed stack, etc) then it can hang around at high
[10:18] <didrocks> njpatel: do you want me to enable preserving the priority if != medium or not?
[10:18] <pitti> so, let's see how far libqt4-dbg unity-2d-launcher-dbgsym unity-2d-panel-dbgsym unity-2d-places-dbgsym unity-2d-spread-dbgsym will get me
[10:18] <njpatel> didrocks, I think what I used to ask for is: crash = critical, developer looks to see if it can be fixed, then crash remains critical OR becomes high and developer comments why it was set to high
[10:19] <seb128> njpatel, what I complained about is that this resetted bugs that were manually lowered because they are no stacktrace or happened once to one user only
[10:19] <didrocks> njpatel: seb128 put some to "low"
[10:19] <dholbach> qterm runs without "-vga std"
[10:19] <njpatel> didrocks, seb128 I think we should do this for new bugs, probably not for existing bugs due to what seb128 mentioned
[10:19] <seb128> didrocks, njpatel: well that's how I get things that not useful enough to be worked out of the top list
[10:20] <njpatel> (unless I'm misunderstanding something)
[10:20] <Kaleo> dholbach: if you install qt4-demos
[10:20] <Kaleo> dholbach: and run qtdemo
[10:20] <didrocks> njpatel: well, we explicitely decided to "reset" in the session AFAIK
[10:20] <seb128> njpatel, ok, what I said but the script ran now so that will be for next time
[10:20] <Kaleo> dholbach: that will give us a very good idea
[10:20] <seb128> njpatel, thankzs
[10:20] <didrocks> adding that to the script then
[10:20] <njpatel> didrocks, seb128 coolio
[10:20] <didrocks> njpatel: I'll send an email to you guys to sum up the modification since last month
[10:21] <njpatel> didrocks, thanks dude
[10:22] <dholbach> Kaleo, yeah, that looks pretty ugly
[10:23] <Kaleo> dholbach: :(
[10:23] <Kaleo> dholbach: screenshot?
[10:24] <dholbach> oops, closed the wrong window - just a minute
[10:24] <pitti> Kaleo: bug 791127
[10:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791127 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QTJSC::Structure::materializePropertyMap()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791127
[10:26] <dholbach> Kaleo, http://ubuntuone.com/p/wsD
[10:27] <ricotz> hello everyone
[10:27] <seb128> hey ricotz
[10:27] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, did you refer to a thunderbird 5.0b1 package?
[10:28] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[10:29] <Kaleo> pitti: awesome
[10:29] <Kaleo> dholbach: thaks!
[10:29] <Kaleo> +n
[10:29] <dholbach> de rien
[10:30] <Kaleo> dholbach: so that corruption is a qt related problem
[10:30] <dholbach> I'll use -vga std for now
[10:30] <Kaleo> dholbach: can you try a couple of other things?
[10:30] <chrisccoulson> ricotz, yeah, i've got tbird 5.0b1 almost ready to upload
[10:30] <dholbach> I can't tell when or why it exactly happens, qterm for instance seems to be fine
[10:31] <dholbach> Kaleo, I can
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> but the version number of the thunderbird-locales package screws everything up
[10:31] <Kaleo> dholbach: qmlviewer /usr/lib/qt4/demos/declarative/flickr/flickr.qml
[10:32] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: ok, the gnome-applets, gnome-panel stack dropped from the CD after the indicator recommends fix yesterday
[10:32] <didrocks> seb128: excellent!
[10:32]  * didrocks checks the CD size
[10:32] <seb128> but that won only some 3mb
[10:32] <didrocks> ok, I was hoping after a quick check 1.6mb, still better :)
[10:33] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, nice, i am quite fine using firefox 5.0 beta, but i am not sure about thunderbird -- how stable it is?
[10:33] <pitti> nice
[10:33] <seb128> well closer from 2mb than 3mb in fact
[10:33] <pitti> so we have 15 MB oversizedness right now
[10:33] <seb128> but still something
[10:33] <pitti> 5 MB -> icons, 5 MB -> live-builder
[10:33] <seb128> +15mb thunderbird :p
[10:34] <pitti> you spoil my optimism!
[10:34] <didrocks> I'm quite happy with the current state, counting Qt and such…
[10:34]  * pitti realizes that he lost all his potential threats, now that French is already not on the CD any more :/
[10:35] <didrocks> pitti: heh, I can imagine how this feeling is bad for you now :-)
[10:35] <Kaleo> pitti: the crash looks like a crash in GTK/Cairo/librsvg loading SVG icons
[10:37] <Kaleo> pitti: can you try to load some SVG icons from /usr/share with /usr/bin/rsvg-view
[10:37] <dholbach> Kaleo,
[10:37] <dholbach> aniel@daniel-virtual-machine:~$ LC_ALL=C qmlviewer /usr/lib/qt4/demos/declarative/flickr/flickr.qml
[10:37] <dholbach> created new network access manager for QDeclarativeEngine(0x989fa90)
[10:37] <dholbach> Speicherzugriffsfehler
[10:37] <dholbach> daniel@daniel-virtual-machine:~$
[10:37] <Kaleo> Speicherzugriffsfehler
[10:37] <Kaleo> that's a long work
[10:37] <Kaleo> word*
[10:37] <pitti> Kaleo: (brb, meeting)
[10:37] <dholbach> "memory access error"(?)
[10:37] <dholbach> you know we Germans like long words - it kind of turns us on
[10:37] <Kaleo> Memory access error
[10:37] <ricotz> segmentation fault
[10:37] <Kaleo> dholbach: nice :)
[10:38] <Kaleo> dholbach: that's a serious issue
[10:38] <Kaleo> dholbach: can you try to just run "qmlviewer"
[10:38] <dholbach> being turned on by long words? :-P
[10:38] <Kaleo> dholbach: no parameters
[10:38] <Kaleo> dholbach: :p
[10:38] <ricotz> dholbach, nicht jeder ;)
[10:38] <dholbach> Kaleo, that "works" - it shows me a black and white drawing demo which seems to have interlace problems
[10:39]  * dholbach hugs ricotz
[10:39] <Kaleo> dholbach: very good
[10:39] <rodrigo_> "nicht jeder' is not German, too short words :-D
[10:39] <Kaleo> dholbach: so we have 2 bugs, one crasher with the QML flickr demo
[10:39] <ricotz> dholbach, heh
[10:39] <Kaleo> dholbach: one drawing issue with any QML (graphicsview actually) based app
[10:39] <ricotz> rodrigo_, it is more like an answer ;)
[10:39] <Kaleo> dholbach: both of which are Oneiric specific
[10:39] <dholbach> Kaleo, the whole window has interlace issues (also the menu bar)
[10:40] <Kaleo> dholbach: hmmm, ok
[10:40] <rodrigo_> ricotz, :)
[10:40] <Kaleo> dholbach: now the issue is that I'm no Qt expert :)
[10:41] <dholbach> Kaleo, http://ubuntuone.com/p/wsM
[10:41] <Kaleo> dholbach: nice
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
[10:42] <chrisccoulson> pitti - what do you think i should do about the thunderbird-locales versioning? i wanted to replace all of it's binaries with packages provided from thunderbird, but thunderbird-locales has an epoch. is there any way i can do this without adding an epoch to the thunderbird version?
[10:42] <dholbach> Kaleo, anything else I can help out with right now?
[10:42] <Kaleo> dholbach: let's make that one an individual bug report
[10:42] <Kaleo> dholbach: with your beautiful screenshot
[10:42] <dholbach> sure, feel free to add it :)
[10:44] <Kaleo> dholbach: that was with the cirrus driver?
[10:44] <dholbach> yes
[10:47] <Kaleo> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/791133
[10:47] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 791133 in qt4-x11 "QGraphicsView based applications garbled rendering in kvm with cirrus video driver" [Undecided,New]
[10:47] <dholbach> awesome, thanks for working on this
[10:47] <Kaleo> dholbach: now reporting the crash with the flickr demo
[10:47] <Kaleo> dholbach: I would need to have the stacktrace on this one
[10:48] <dholbach> hrm
[10:48] <dholbach> you can't reproduce this? :)
[10:48] <dholbach> let me see if I can find all the right debug symbols
[10:48] <Kaleo> dholbach: I don't have the vm at hand :)
[10:48] <Kaleo> dholbach: at least you will need the package libqt4-dbg
=== MacSlow|afk is now known as MacSlow
[10:55] <asac> didrocks: hmm ... now my launcher bar does not reappear ... and killing mumble didnt help :/
[10:56] <asac> i prefer the bug when the launcher doesnt hide ;)
[10:58] <Kaleo> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/791140 crasher bug report
[10:58] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 791140 in qt4-x11 "QML flickr demo crashes on startup in kvm with cirrus video driver" [Undecided,New]
[10:59] <dholbach> Kaleo, I'll attach more info as soon as I know more myself
[10:59] <didrocks> asac: back in a few, having issue with the compiz SRU upgrade testing, we can discuss and debug this afterwards
[11:01] <Kaleo> dholbach: thank you very much
[11:01] <Kaleo> dholbach: my intuition tells me that if we fix both bugs in Qt/Oneiric Unity 2D will then work
[11:06] <didrocks> ok, even after reboot, nothing in compiz (screen black, no refresh)
[11:06] <didrocks> seb128: you told me that you still have a natty machine to test?
[11:07] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[11:07] <didrocks> seb128: can you try to install compiz and the plugin from my ppa? ppa:didrocks/ppa
[11:07] <didrocks> it should be the only thing that is upgaded
[11:07] <seb128> didrocks, is there anything else in the ppa? i.e should I select what to install?
[11:08] <didrocks> seb128: all the other have the same version or an older one that in natty
[11:08] <didrocks> than*
[11:08] <didrocks> seb128: take the natty pocket, btw
[11:08] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[11:08] <didrocks> thanks :)
[11:08] <didrocks> and sorry in advance if it breaks for you too
[11:09] <didrocks> asac: so I'm not under unity right now (will try to debug the compiz issue), but we can have a look about your launcher issue
[11:09] <didrocks> asac: so, in d-feet, you shold have a Unity (sorry, can't get access then ;)) well known path
[11:10] <dholbach> Kaleo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/615716/ - do you need more debug data?
[11:10] <didrocks> asac: you have the Launcher / Introspection object and interface
[11:10] <didrocks> you can poke it asking for "Launcher"
[11:10] <didrocks> then, pastebin the output
[11:10] <asac> let me check d-feet
[11:10] <didrocks> (do that in a situation where the launcher should appear)
[11:11] <asac> hmm
[11:11] <asac> didrocks: seems i only see system bus ... i guess its on the "user bus"?
[11:11] <didrocks> asac: yeah, it's on the session bus
[11:11] <didrocks> you can't connect to it?
[11:12] <asac> d-feet doesnt offer me to connect to it
[11:12] <asac> let me restart
[11:12] <didrocks> ok :)
[11:12] <asac> didrocks: do you know the session buss address?
[11:12] <asac> its asking for a bus address (i thought in the past session and system bus were short cutted)
[11:12] <seb128_> asac, use the file menu, connect to session?
[11:12] <didrocks> asac: no :/
[11:12] <asac> seb128_: good idea .. ;)
[11:13] <didrocks> asac: yeah, i have the shortcut in the file menu
[11:13] <asac> the global menu tricked me in not seeing that there was a menu
[11:13] <seb128_> it's confusing with appmenu
[11:13] <seb128_> right
[11:13] <didrocks> :)
[11:13] <asac> yay
[11:13] <asac> siso you say i should ask which interface?
[11:13] <asac> com.canonical.unity.Launcher
[11:13] <didrocks> yeah
[11:13] <asac> com.canonical.Unity.Launcher
[11:13] <asac> -> Introspectable
[11:13] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sorry, was in meeting
[11:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: there's a trick
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
[11:14] <asac> didrocks: which method should i call with what parameters?
[11:14] <didrocks> asac: sorry, I have to help you without having it right there because of compiz…
[11:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: you can set a different version (read: add the epoch) for the tbird-locale-* binaries only
[11:14] <asac> didrocks: properties?
[11:14] <didrocks> asac: one sec, let me start my netbook
[11:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: let me look for an example
[11:14] <didrocks> will be easier :)
[11:14] <asac> cool
[11:15] <didrocks> seb128: so, I can ensure you that gnome-panel 3 works well :)
[11:15]  * didrocks tries to see the positive side
[11:16] <seb128> ;-)
[11:16] <asac> think positive, think big!
[11:17] <pitti> chrisccoulson: so you could do something like
[11:17] <pitti> VERSION = $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n -e '/^Version:/s/.*: //p')
[11:17] <pitti> dh_gencontrol -pthunderbird-locale-* -- -v1:$(VERSION)
[11:17] <pitti> not literally with the "*", though (you probably need a loop)
[11:17] <didrocks> ok, so after installing d-feet on my netbook… asac: com.canonical.Unify, /com/canonical/Unity/Debug, com.canonical.Unity.Debug.Introspection
[11:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but dpkg-gencontrol allows you to specify a different binary version
[11:18] <didrocks> Methods GetState ("Launcher)
[11:18] <asac> kk
[11:18]  * asac goes
[11:18] <didrocks> asac: you should get a hide-quirks somewhere, I'm interested in the number next to it
[11:19] <asac> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/615722/
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that's what i was thinking. are there any protections if it went wrong and the build resulted in a binary with a lower version though? (ie, if i accidentally upload a source with a lower version, then it gets rejected)
[11:19] <asac> seems to be a garbage number
[11:19] <asac> like mem trashed
[11:19] <asac> well ... not that bad, but odd anyway
[11:19] <asac> 526592
[11:19] <pitti> chrisccoulson: hm, LP might have
[11:19] <didrocks> asac: it's just odd :)
[11:20] <didrocks> asac: so, the launcher sholdn't be hidden
[11:20] <didrocks> and it's not seen as hidden
[11:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but even if not, the worst that happens it that the binaries from thunderbird-locales simply dominate the ones built by thunderbird
[11:20] <asac> didrocks: right
[11:20] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but a local build will show you the version (use dpkg -I)
[11:20] <asac> didrocks: so i tell you whats the case ... the launcher is there
[11:20] <asac> didrocks: its just that its not visible on the desktops where i have full screen apps
[11:20] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, thanks. i'll give that a try
[11:20] <asac> didrocks: e.g. its behind in z-order
[11:20] <asac> let me try to unmaximize all
[11:20] <didrocks> asac: oh, that one, yeah, it's known
[11:21] <seb128> didrocks, ok, installed
[11:21] <asac> didrocks: no its not true
[11:21] <didrocks> asac: it will be below the full screen apps (no maximized, but full screen)
[11:21] <didrocks> seb128: good luck!
[11:21] <asac> didrocks: i unmaximized all windows ... when i unmaximized the last window the launcher didnt just appear beneath it ... it did slide in
[11:21] <asac> so it was gone
[11:21] <asac> and its gone again
[11:21] <asac> e.g. doesnt come back if i go with the mozuse there
[11:22] <asac> didrocks: i am maximizing my windows... not full screen
[11:22] <asac> e.g. alt+f10
[11:22] <seb128> didrocks, hum, I've a plymouth screen with a mouse cursor on top of it
[11:22] <didrocks> asac: hum, and in that buggy state, can you poke the dbus call again?
[11:22] <asac> sure
[11:22] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, no refresh then?
[11:22] <asac> ah maybe is should also maximize d-feet
[11:23] <didrocks> asac: it only maximize window that are > 75% of the workarea
[11:23] <asac> didrocks: still the same 526592
[11:23] <pitti> Kaleo: trying rsvg-view now
[11:23] <asac> didrocks: i am not sure what that would mean ... i have all windows typically maximized using alt+f10
[11:24] <asac> so the window bar is integrated in the top panel etc.
[11:24] <asac> and normally the launcher slides in if i mouse the mouse to the side
[11:24] <asac> but not anymore :/
[11:24] <asac> now it slides in if i umaximize all windows on my desktop
[11:24] <didrocks> asac: how, can you try hovering the bfb?
[11:24] <didrocks> just to see if it's a screen edge issue or something else
[11:25] <didrocks> (the bfb is the ubuntu logo on top)
[11:25] <asac> didrocks: bfb?
[11:25] <asac> ah
[11:25] <asac> didrocks: what should happen? i dont see any action there, but i can click it
[11:25] <asac> but interestingly when i click it the button goes into "clicked" state
[11:25] <didrocks> asac: hum, the launcher should start showing
[11:25] <asac> but the whole wizbang thing does not appear
[11:25] <asac> e.g. the applications dash or whatever that is
[11:25] <didrocks> ok, clearly a stacking issue
[11:25] <didrocks> asac: I think the launcher/dash appears
[11:25] <asac> right. except that the launcher slides in ;)
[11:26] <didrocks> but the z order is totally fuck*
[11:26] <asac> if i unmaximize the last window ... which doesnt feel like stacking
[11:26] <didrocks> each time you maximize/unmaximize a window, the stacking is recomputed
[11:26] <asac> ok
[11:26] <asac> so now its really a z-order thing
[11:26] <asac> i unmaximized the last window and the launcher was behind it
[11:26] <asac> didrocks: why isnt the launcher always just on top ;)?
[11:26] <didrocks> yeah, just a stacking issue I would say
[11:27] <pitti> Kaleo: that seems to work fine (also said so on the bug report)
[11:27] <didrocks> asac: well, it can't be on top on, let's say screensaver
[11:27] <asac> however, it also means that the sliding out etc. doesnt work ;)
[11:27]  * pitti neds to run out for a bit
[11:27] <didrocks> full screen app is a design decision
[11:27] <didrocks> asac: right :)
[11:27] <didrocks> asac: so, there is a SRU with some stacking fix
[11:27] <asac> is there a way to dump z-order of windows on screen easily?
[11:27] <asac> didrocks: nice ... i will test... where is that? or is that what you prepare atm?
[11:27] <didrocks> asac: as soon as we saw with seb128 if we can get compiz drawing the screen from that SRU, I'll ping you
[11:27] <asac> i kind of regularly see this issue
[11:27] <didrocks> not sure you want to test right now :)
[11:28] <didrocks> asac: no, only printf in the compiz code for debugging that :/
[11:28] <asac> i can survive without launcher though ;)... but if even alt+f2 doesnt show up its becoming annoying ;)
[11:28] <didrocks> yeah, all of thoses are linked to the launcher stacking
[11:28] <didrocks> (dash is an extension of the launcher window)
[11:28] <asac> and right now ... all windows seem to be on top of all the dash/launcher windows ;)
[11:29] <didrocks> asac: it's just shy ;-)
[11:29] <asac> cool
[11:29] <asac> lol
[11:29] <didrocks> asac: anyway, I'll ping you once the SRU ready
[11:29] <asac> yeah ... unity knows that i know what i am doing  ;)
[11:29] <asac> gratias
[11:29] <didrocks> heh!
[11:29] <didrocks> yw
[11:29] <asac> i see it this way: i am happy to help being a tester ;)
[11:30] <asac> problem is that i am not 100% when this starts, so testing will take 1 or 2 days to tell for sure if things are gone
[11:30] <asac> but we'll see
[11:30] <didrocks> asac: yeah, there is time to figure that out, right now, the only way is to restart X to get the stacking in the same order than compiz believe it is
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
[12:04] <rodrigo_> ugh, I guess I should book my flights for Dublin now
[12:05] <rodrigo_> we're all going to Dublin, right?
[12:06] <didrocks> rodrigo_: right :)
[12:06] <rodrigo_> ok, booking them then :)
[12:07] <rodrigo_> it's the week of June 27th, right?
[12:08] <didrocks> yeah
[12:09] <Sweetshark> do you guys book the flights first, register later or the other way around?
[12:10] <pitti> first book, then register
[12:10] <Sweetshark> also: Do we need to book a hotel, or is that "automatic" as for UDS?
[12:11] <pitti> Sweetshark: no need to, that's already done
[12:11] <Sweetshark> pitti: thanks great.
[12:20] <Kaleo> didrocks: sorry I was out for lunch; thanks a lot for the debug data
[12:20] <Kaleo> I meant dholbach ^
[12:21] <dholbach> Kaleo, I added it to the bug report
[12:21] <Kaleo> dholbach: this is great; double great because it's the exact same crash as in Unity 2D
[12:21] <dholbach> awesome
[12:22] <seb128> dholbach, see you are slowly coming back to the desktop world ;-)
[12:23] <dholbach> seb128, if I want to or not ;-)
[12:36] <charlie-tca> How do I know if I am in a 2d or 3d session?
[12:36] <charlie-tca> in oneiric
[12:41] <seb128> charlie-tca, check if compiz is running (3d) or not
[12:41] <charlie-tca> thanks
[12:41] <charlie-tca> We expect users to know this or will it be in the release notes?
[12:43] <seb128> why does it matter to users if they run in 3d or2d?
[12:44] <charlie-tca> because we report bugs against unity-2d or 3d?
[12:48] <seb128> charlie-tca, so it's for the bug reporting documentation?
[12:49] <seb128> ideally apport should do the right thing
[12:49] <charlie-tca> yes, I just reported it against unity
[12:49] <charlie-tca> no dash when clicking the logo
[12:49] <pitti> our apport hook already sets a tag for unity 3d
[12:50] <charlie-tca> It didn't crash, the dash just doesn't come up
[12:50] <pitti> if unity-panel-service is running, it tags "running-unity"
[12:50] <pitti> it should be straightforward to extend that to running-unity-2d
[12:50] <pitti> charlie-tca: it does crash, I think
[12:50] <charlie-tca> it did not give a crash in 30 minutes
[12:51] <pitti> charlie-tca: same problem here, bug 791127
[12:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791127 in unity-2d "unity-2d-places crashed with SIGSEGV in QTJSC::Structure::materializePropertyMap()" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791127
[12:51] <pitti> charlie-tca: apport is still turned off by default
[12:51] <pitti> charlie-tca: did you try on a live system? it's enabled there
[12:51] <pitti> or sudo service apport start force_start=1
[12:51] <charlie-tca> bug 791188
[12:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791188 in unity "no dash when Ubuntu logo is clicked in oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791188
[12:51] <charlie-tca> alternate image installed
[12:51] <pitti> probably a dupe
[12:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: do you have a minute to discuss the firefox loco customization? (perhaps in mumble, less typing, more bandwidth)
[12:54] <jasoncwarner> hey didrocks, around?
[12:55] <didrocks> jasoncwarner: hey, on mumble, will ping you afterward
[12:56] <jasoncwarner> didrocks: no worries...
[12:57] <seb128> hey jasoncwarner
[12:57] <jasoncwarner> hey seb128
[12:57] <jasoncwarner> morning/evening/afternoon whereever you are!
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - sure, can do
[12:58] <chrisccoulson> i think i've got my headset working again ;)
[12:59] <jasoncwarner> just updated to oneiric. Very redmond theme going on!
[12:59] <jasoncwarner> ;)
[13:00] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner, welcome to the 80's :)
[13:00] <pitti> jasoncwarner: it's the future!
[13:00] <jasoncwarner> :)
[13:00] <jasoncwarner> pitti: what was the package you said I should install to get a slightly better theme?
[13:00] <jasoncwarner> something like apt-get install non-butt-ugly-theme or something?
[13:00] <pitti> jasoncwarner: gnome-themes-standard
[13:00] <seb128> jasoncwarner: you didn't read my email on the list!
[13:01] <jasoncwarner> seb128: I swear, I DO NOT have your emails filtered. I swear. ;)
[13:01] <seb128> lol
[13:02] <seb128> jasoncwarner: but what pitti said (it was also mentioned in the "known issues" of the GNOME3 status email I sent)
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
[13:03] <jasoncwarner> seb128: ah, just reread you email...saw it now ....you know how manager brains work...nothing sticks until the problem is real for ME ;)
[13:03] <seb128> lol
[13:04] <rodrigo_> hi jasoncwarner
[13:04] <jasoncwarner> hey rodrigo_! how are things?
[13:05] <rodrigo_> jasoncwarner, I'm fine, and you?
[13:05] <pedro_> hello folks
[13:05] <rodrigo_> hey pedro_
[13:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: /usr/share/xul-ext/ubufox/components/aboutStartpage.js
[13:05] <seb128> pedro_, hola!
[13:05] <jasoncwarner> pretty good, thanks for asking.
[13:05] <jasoncwarner> hey pedro_!
[13:05] <pedro_> hola rodrigo_ , seb128, jasoncwarner, pitti :-)
[13:08] <jasoncwarner> Ok fellas...I'm going to bed ...talk to you all tomorrow...
[13:08] <seb128> 'night jasoncwarner
[13:08] <seb128> jasoncwarner: tomorrow or not, it's an holiday is several counties (just for info)
[13:08] <seb128> countries
[13:09] <rodrigo_> tomorrow a holiday? where?
[13:09] <seb128> rodrigo_, germany and france at least
[13:09] <jasoncwarner> seb128: forgot about that...enjoy the holiday for those that have one...
[13:09] <rodrigo_> hmm, ok, we need to import that holiday here :)
[13:10] <pedro_> in either case is a holiday for seb128 :-)
[13:10] <rodrigo_> :D
[13:10] <seb128> ;-)
[13:10] <jasoncwarner> nm...one last test before bed...just turned on lightdm...rebooting to test it really quickly :)
[13:19] <didrocks> I'll be there, I trade tomorrow against Friday :)
[13:20] <didrocks> not sure switching to lightdm before going to bed will be a "quick" test :)
[13:21] <seb128> didrocks, see the comments you do, then you wonder why robert_ancell drive over you when doing kart driving ;-)
[13:22] <didrocks> seb128: heh, I'm doing those comments now that I know how he drives :)
[13:22] <seb128> ;-)
[13:25]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:31]  * didrocks hugs pitti to force the full report on crash :)
[13:32] <pitti> hm?
[13:32] <didrocks> pitti: just got a crash, saw that "full report" is forced now (contrary to what it was in natty, as we discussed)
[13:32] <pitti> oh, apport only offers a "reduced" one if there's actually something sensible in the stack trace
[13:32] <didrocks> was thinking it was on purpose :)
[13:32] <pitti> it's been like that for ages
[13:33] <didrocks> hum, for compiz/unity, it thought numerous times that there was something sensible in the stack
[13:33] <didrocks> even if it wasn't the case
[13:35] <didrocks> the retracers aren't working, isn't it?
[13:36] <pitti> we don't have oneiric retracers yet
[13:36] <seb128> didrocks, we have no oneiric retracers, didn't check the natty ones for a while
[13:36] <didrocks> ok, let's retrace it there then
[13:36] <didrocks> thanks :)
[13:37] <seb128> yw
[13:43] <pitti> chrisccoulson: if I change anything in /usr/share/xul-ext/ubufox/components/aboutStartpage.js, is there some equivalent of printing a string to stdout, for debugging?
[13:44] <didrocks> the recent crash in unity-2d seems related to the new Qt
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - if you're running in chrome, then you can normally use window.dump() (although i think you need to turn on a pref for that to work). but there is no window in a JS component, so you can't do that anyway ;)
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> i think you can use nsIConsoleService
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/XPCOM_Interface_Reference/nsIConsoleService
[13:51] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, thanks; that works nicely
[13:55] <didrocks> hum, the icons for notify-osd showing the progress aren't accurate
[13:55] <didrocks> if I use my keyboard to lower the system sound, I get the "mute" icon
[13:55] <didrocks> if I do the contrary, I have the "100% volume" bar icon
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> i guess it's too late to sneak a firefox release in? ;)
[13:59] <pitti> for a1? might get a little tight, yes
[14:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: but this is a1 -- being able to install it is about as much as you can expect at this point :/
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it's ok, i'll wait until afterwards. it probably won't build on armel in time anyway
[14:07] <cyphermox> hey
[14:09] <dobey> pitti: yes we will continue to support rbox, but with banshee as the default it will have to take a back seat to being fixed until banshee also runs on gtk3 in ubuntu :-/
[14:10] <pitti> dobey: right, that makes sense
[14:15] <seb128> dobey, pitti: no it doesn't make sense
[14:15] <seb128> it means we might have rb without a music store in oneiric?
[14:15] <seb128> why not just having a gtk2 and a gtk3 version of the libubuntuone?
[14:18] <dobey> why the heck would cron just stop processing jobs for no apparent reason, on lucid server?
[14:18] <Laney> broken pam update yeterday
[14:20] <dobey> seb128: well as i understand it banshee is almost ready to use gtk3, so shouldn't be too much longer
[14:20] <seb128> dobey, is there any mono gtk3 bindings?
[14:20] <dobey> Laney: that broke cron? but i haven't updated in a while...
[14:21] <seb128> dobey, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IncidentReports/2011-05-31-pam-security-update-breaks-cron
[14:21] <seb128> dobey, it has been fixed since, reupdate?
[14:21] <dobey> seb128: i don't know the details exactly.
[14:22] <dobey> oh, maybe it got installed automagically if it was a security update
[14:22] <soren> dobey: It was.
[14:22] <Laney> there are both bindings and a branch of banshee using them in progress, but I don't know how close either of them are to being released
[14:23] <dobey> well i was told gtk3 banshee would be in ubuntu 11.10
[14:23] <dobey> why did we have to switch to banshee right before the entire world broke because of gtk3? :-/
[14:27] <pitti> it's all jorge's fault :)
[14:27] <dholbach> haha
[14:27] <dholbach> jcastro, ^ :)
[14:27] <pitti> more seriously, I haven't seen C# bindings for GTK 3 yet
[14:28] <pitti> does anyone know if these are actually being worked on, or whether mono will go GI?
[14:30] <andreasn> pitti, we had a hackfest, let me check
[14:31] <andreasn> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/the-gnomemono-hackfest-is-here-officially/
[14:31] <andreasn> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/gnomemono-hackfest-day-1/
[14:31] <andreasn> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/gnomemono-hackfest-day-2-3/
[14:34] <pitti> wow, that sounds promising!
[14:34] <jcastro> I'll ask around
[14:35] <andreasn> pitti, only thing I could find was https://github.com/alanmcgovern/mono-introspect
[14:35] <dobey> pitti: hell, how are we going to fit all the mono stuff, all of the gtk3 stuff, all the gtk2 stuff, and all the qt stuff, on the CD? :)
[14:35] <dobey> pitti: a couple of the banshee guys are going to the introspection hackfest too, i think
[14:36] <pitti> dobey: well, we don't right now :) we have to squeeze harder
[14:36] <pitti> nice, I'll be there as well
[14:36] <seb128> pitti, where, when is the g-i hackfest?
[14:36] <dobey> pitti: take 2 CDs and glue them together, back-to-back? ;)
[14:36] <pitti> seb128: the week after the desktop summit
[14:36] <dobey> seb128: summit + openismus
[14:36] <pitti> dobey: yes, B-sides
[14:37] <dobey> oh when, not where
[14:37] <dobey> it's like 3 days at the summit, and then 3 days at the openismus office, i believe
[14:41] <seb128> ok
[14:43] <mterry> mvo, heyo.  I'm going through the sponsor queue, and update-manager merges show in it.  If I see a merge I think is good, should I merge it, or just let you handle those.  I notice in the bzr log that you are the last 100 committers or so  :)
[14:57] <mvo> mterry: feel free to merge if it looks good, that is fine. I will be happy about the help!
[15:00] <mterry> mvo, k
[15:03] <rodrigo_> hey kamusin
[15:03] <kamusin> hey rodrigo_!
[15:05] <kamusin> rodrigo_, when will be the celebration about your new position as a director :P
[15:15] <mvo> mterry: are you currently merging stuff for u-m? if not, I'm happy to take a look now, just finished some other work. and thanks for the NM-0.9 branch of s-c :)
[15:15] <mterry> mvo, yeah, I'm going through a few for u-m
[15:15] <cdbs> mterry: "I'm not the Micheal you meant" :)
[15:15] <mterry> :)
[15:15] <cdbs> mterry: Yeah, it was me who fixed the bug in Unity
[15:16] <cdbs> and forgot to close this bug after that got in 3.8.14
[15:16] <cdbs> s/bug/merge/
[15:16] <cdbs> thanks anyway
[15:16] <mterry> cdbs, ah good, so I wasn't crushing someone's dreams.  I always hate marking a branch "rejected", feels so harsh
[15:16] <cdbs> no probs :)
[15:16] <mvo> mterry: thanks!
[15:17]  * mvo goes and merges some software-center branches instead
[15:18] <bcurtiswx> vinagre, doesn't show any protocols to use (i.e. VNC or SSH)
[15:18] <bcurtiswx> hum
[15:20] <mterry> mvo, fyi, u-m seems clear, going back to other packages for piloting
[15:22] <mvo> ok, thanks for the heads up
[15:23] <alex3f> mvo: quick question: old api uses Package.versions for a list of available versions to install; new api uses _Package.available; should I stick with old, and rename available to versions or provide both?
[15:23] <alex3f> or compromise by setting self.versions = self.available in _Package constructor? :-)
[15:25] <mvo> alex3f: it dosn't really matter much I think, I slightly prefer "versions" over "available" as available may be interpreted as a boolean "is this package availalbe or not" whereas this is less ambigous with "versions"
[15:26] <alex3f> you're right
[15:40] <pitti> chrisccoulson, seb128: I suppose we can move the remainign a1 WIs on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-email-client to a2 now?
[15:40]  * pitti won't be there tomorrow to move them
[15:41] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that sounds fine
[15:45] <seb128> works for me
[15:45] <alex3f> mvo: what do you know about apt.Package.installed versus apt_pkg.Package.current_ver?
[15:45] <alex3f> for what I see, the later returns a Version object...
[15:48] <alex3f> mvo: I stumbled across lowlevel_cache = self.cache._cache._cache, where an apt_pkg.Package is returned, instead of the usual apt.Package from cache
=== bdrung_ is now known as bdrung
[16:00] <mvo> alex3f: that is for the addon handling?
[16:01] <alex3f> mvo: no, it's inside the AppViewFilter from ui.gtk.appview
[16:01] <mvo> oh
[16:02] <mvo> alex3f: in a meeting right now :/ I have a look in a little bit, what is it used for? filter out the supported package? or something else entirely?
[16:04] <alex3f> mvo: ah, sorry; it filters package to be displayed; filters out packages that have current_ver None in this lowlevel cache, for the 'installed_only' view; a comment before says: # use the lowlevel cache here, twice as fast
[16:05] <alex3f> I should simply check if the current PackageInfo provides such as lowlevel cache, if not, use the is_installed method
[16:05] <mvo> alex3f: yeah
[16:05] <alex3f> *such a
[16:05] <mvo> alex3f: makes sense
[16:06] <pitti> rickspencer3: Mr. Spencer!
[16:29] <Sweetshark> http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/statements-on-openofficeorg-contribution-to-apache-nasdaq-orcl-1521400.htm
[16:29] <rodrigo_> kamusin, I 1st need to get enough votes, but if so, celebration will be in your house, right?
[16:29] <rodrigo_> :)
[16:29] <kenvandine> seb128, telepathy-indicator is in sourceNEW :)
[16:29] <seb128> kenvandine, great
[16:30] <seb128> did you upload it to the ppa as well?
[16:30] <kenvandine> no, want me too?
[16:32] <Sweetshark> and the reply: http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/06/01/statement-about-oracles-move-to-donate-openoffice-org-assets-to-the-apache-foundation/
[16:33] <seb128> kenvandine, not especially, I was just not sure if you said yesterday that it should be tested with the new empathy in a ppa until alpha1
[16:34] <kenvandine> seb128, nah, figured it's a new binary and doesn't really conflict
[16:34] <seb128> right, I was rather interested about the new empathy part :p
[16:34] <kenvandine> but until we drop the patch in empathy we'll get 2 entries in the messaging menu
[16:35] <seb128> I will review that one in a bit if didrocks doesn't beat me to it
[16:35] <kenvandine> soon :)
[16:35] <seb128> just finishing some other things first
[16:35] <didrocks> finishing as well some cleaning, so let's see who will finish first :p
[16:37]  * kenvandine just upgraded laptop to oneiric
[16:38] <cdbs> kenvandine: O' HAI, I'm not the only jerk using Oneiric :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> :)
[16:39] <kenvandine> cdbs, it sure is pretty isn't it :) lol
[16:40] <kenvandine> now everything is just as ugly as the new gwibber
[16:40] <kenvandine> :)
[16:50] <pitti> good night everyone
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: are you on holiday on Friday?
[16:50] <pitti> seb128: I wondered if you could join the release meeting
[16:50] <pitti> or kenvandine
[16:51] <didrocks> good night pitti! see you!
[16:52] <seb128> pitti, not officially on holidays no, I might take an easy day as sort of UDS swap but I will be around
[16:52] <seb128> just maybe off to watch some tennis on tv during the afternoon ;-)
[16:52] <seb128> 'night pitti, enjoy your weekend
[16:52] <seb128> if kenvandine can cover for the meeting great, otherwise I can probably do it
[16:53]  * kenvandine checks calendar
[16:53] <kenvandine> sorry, i can't do it
[16:53] <kenvandine> got a kid's thing at their school
[16:53] <pitti> ok, thanks
[16:54] <pitti> if nobody has time, so be it
[16:54] <pitti> there'll be another meeting :)
[16:54] <kenvandine> :)
[16:54] <pitti> so, see you on Monday!
[16:54] <seb128> pitti, I will join if I'm around
[16:54] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[16:54] <seb128> pitti, have fun, see you next week!
[17:08] <kamusin> rodrigo_, no problem.. you are invited to come any time :)
[17:08] <rodrigo_> :)
[17:28] <seb128> Sweetshark, hi, do you know if libreoffice-gnome is going to stop gnomevfs this cycle?
[17:32] <didrocks1> waow, it's still using it?
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> didrocks1, are you the real one? or just an imposter? ;)
[17:36] <didrocks1> chrisccoulson: I'm pretending :-)
[17:36] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[17:37] <didrocks1> chrisccoulson: Qt build is destroying my laptop perf, and I can't even talk on weechat, so I'm using my netbook for now :)
[17:37] <didrocks1> but the other one is still connected
[17:37] <didrocks1> and I can't disconnect it :p
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> didrocks1, that's what it's like every time i build firefox (or thunderbird) ;)
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> welcome to the world of packages that don't build in 10 minutes :)
[17:38] <didrocks1> chrisccoulson: 5h30 is a nice score :-)
[17:38] <didrocks1> 45 minutes for nux was already long :p
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> didrocks1, that's quite a long time. firefox is nearly 2 hours on my laptop (with the test suite too)
[17:39] <didrocks1> chrisccoulson: seems webkit is taking 70% of the time there
[17:39] <chrisccoulson> fta really has the short straw building chromium ;)
[17:40] <didrocks1> that's the only part when I miss cmake: qmake don't have progression indication built-in
[17:42] <seb128> seems like I'm working on boring packages compared to you guys ;-)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128, want to maintain a browser?
[17:42] <didrocks1> seb128: do you want some "fun"? :-)
[17:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I used to maintain epiphany-browser, I could cope with that ;-)
[17:43] <seb128> didrocks1, thanks, I will think about it ;-)
[17:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - lol. that's like me taking gecko out of firefox and just maintaining the little bit of UI on top ;)
[17:43] <didrocks1> seb128: when? like now! it's time to take some decision! :)
[17:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128, it's a lot of fun ;)
[17:44] <didrocks1> (it's easier to decide something you shouldn't just before a long week-end!)
[17:45] <seb128> didrocks1: ok, so I think I'm just a boring man so I will stay away from the fun, I wouldn't want to stole it from you guys ;-)
[17:46] <didrocks1> seb128: you shouldn't, there is enough fun to share! :-)
[17:46] <didrocks1> and see the advantages, I can't do nothing else on my laptop, so I can use my netbook and feel like it was a nice move to buy it :)
[17:47] <didrocks1> it just makes my life better!
[17:47] <seb128> didrocks1, you could do some sponsoring for example :p
[17:47] <didrocks1> seb128: building packages on my netbook? I already screwed my laptop :p
[17:48] <didrocks1> but yeah, evo-exchange, I'll have a look just post alpha1
[17:48] <seb128> I just ping mterry, he's patch pilot today
[17:48] <seb128> +should
[17:52] <dpm> didrocks1, what's that number on your nick? If you're trying to be like seb128, I'd try with a higher number, like didrocks129 or something like that ;)
[17:52] <didrocks1> dpm: yeah, I have a long way to go to reach seb128 :)
[17:52]  * dpm hugs didrocks1 and seb128
[17:52] <didrocks1> he started ahead of me, that's cheating!
[17:52]  * didrocks1 hugs dpm and seb128
[17:53]  * seb128 hugs dpm
[17:53]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[17:53] <dpm> ;)
[17:53] <seb128> ok, I official hate tomboy now :p
[17:53] <seb128> that's the only thing keeping libgnome, libgnomeui on my install
[17:53] <seb128> libbonoboui as well
[17:54] <didrocks1> the last one is not only for the applet?
[17:56] <bcurtiswx> so is didrocks or didrocks1 the evil twin?
[17:57] <didrocks1> both :-)
[17:57] <Laney> both of them are for the panel applet iirc
[17:57] <seb128> no
[17:57] <seb128> we stopped building the applet in natty
[17:57] <seb128> libgnomeui-0 depends on libbonoboui2-0
[17:57] <didrocks1> ok, so gnomeui
[17:58] <seb128> libgnome2.24-cil depends on libgnomeui-0
=== didrocks1 is now known as didrocks
[17:58] <seb128> tomboy use gconfpeditor which is in libgnome2.24-cil
[17:58] <seb128> Laney, we discussed it previous cycle if you remember
[17:58] <Laney> oh the peditors stuff, yeah
[17:58] <Laney> I thought that was in another lib
[18:05] <seb128> I should have suggested dropping tomboy from the default install at UDS
[18:06] <seb128> it's clearly not actively maintained nowadays and it's still using gconf, gtk2, and old the libgnome stack
[18:08] <bcurtiswx> i've never used tomboy
[18:10] <seb128> well it's quite nice and lot of people use it
[18:10] <seb128> we would have dropped it already otherwise when we discussed dropping mono from the CD to win space
[18:12] <Laney> you should probably wait for (or offer help with) the bindings before saying these things which can be quite demotivating
[18:12] <Laney> you got similar feedback from pitivi upstream
[18:13] <seb128> we don't have the resources to help on that
[18:13] <seb128> we can't fix every software we ship or do upstream porting work for those
[18:14] <seb128> waiting...we are discussing the libgnome tomboy depends issue for over a cycle and it didn't move
[18:14] <seb128> Laney, realistically we will need to drop quite some softwares not actively maintained this cycle
[18:15] <seb128> it's the same for things relying on a gnome lib which switched to gtk3 which will not keep a gtk2 version
[18:15] <seb128> (libpanel-applet being one example)
[18:16] <seb128> or libbrasero (just checking the 2 rdepends, goobox didn't get work in years and gthumb will like go to gtk3)
[18:18] <Laney> sadly software doesn't always move as fast as the Ubuntu release cycle, especially so when developed by people in their spare time
[18:19] <seb128> Laney, right, and none of the things I said as a value judgement on those softwares
[18:19] <Laney> if you have hard goals and are unable to commit engineers to meet them then dropping software seems to be the only way to meet that
[18:19] <seb128> it's just that it doesn't match with what we are doing so we will need to sort the issue
[18:20] <seb128> right, which I think is fine
[18:20] <Laney> but presumably you thought the software contributed something to the quality of the ubuntu desktop?
[18:20] <seb128> speaking about random gnome-applets in universe or things using old libs not updated for years or speaking about tomboy?
[18:21] <Laney> thinking about the default install here
[18:21] <Laney> dropping stuff from the archive completely is different and usually more upstream led
[18:22] <seb128> Laney, well default install things are not fixed decision we re-evaluate, i.e for pitivi we might keep it
[18:23] <seb128> it's just that we face CD space issues and maintainship load issues every cycle so as a team,distribution we need to decide what we can cary or not
[18:23] <seb128> I would hate to have to maintain the libgnome, libgnomeui, libgnomevfs, libbonobo stack just because of tomboy
[18:23] <Laney> I just think it's hard for upstreams as clearly being in the default install is a huge thing for them
[18:24] <seb128> well, it's up to them to match the bar to stay in
[18:24] <chrisccoulson> firefox is still using libgnome (or libgnomeui, whichever one has GnomeClient) btw ;)
[18:24] <seb128> every software writer would like his software shipped to lot of users but we have to select what goes in
[18:25] <Laney> is it a prize for upstream then?
[18:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, why isn't it having a depends on it?
[18:25] <Laney> not a decision made as to which software makes the best quality desktop
[18:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128, it functions without it, but the session manager integration doesn't work if it isn't installed
[18:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hum, is there any plan to fix that using the dbus api?
[18:27] <seb128> Laney, not sure to understand your question
[18:27] <seb128> Laney, well the issue is to weight the benefit to users compared to the cost in work and CD space
[18:27] <bcurtiswx> not sure if i can convey this idea quite right, but what about maintaining a set of software that will be on the CD, and at install time (or upon first available internet connection) we install another set of packages that will allow users to get a more full desktop experience.  This would still be a default install, but it may allow for bigger sized apps to be default (libreoffice, pitivi, whichever)
[18:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i should probably add it to my list of things to look at ;)
[18:27] <seb128> dragging an old GNOME stack in is an high cost
[18:28] <seb128> bcurtiswx, that was discussed before and nobody liked it
[18:28] <bcurtiswx> seb128, is there a log of this somewhere (i'm just interested in the main reasoning)
[18:28] <seb128> bcurtiswx, it removes the constrain to do efforts to keep the installation clean, it adds a slow step after the installation and it just makes the installation process less nice for the user
[18:29] <seb128> bcurtiswx, no, it has been discussed several time over years at different UDSes, meetings, etc
[18:31] <bcurtiswx> seb128, hum.  Well i guess it's refreshing to know my though processes are only a few UDS's behind the times ;)
[18:33] <bcurtiswx> we'll just wait until DVD's are as cheap as CD's, and all problems will go away.. (i wish ) :P
[18:34] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, but CD size is good discipline :)
[18:35] <bcurtiswx> not debating that issue one bit, its easy to get lazy, i myself am a great example
[18:36] <seb128> the decision to not use DVD is not the cost
[18:36] <seb128> it's that without the CD constrain our default install would become cluttered
[18:37] <seb128> we would stop bothering about cleaning old libs or doing transitions and keeping a selected see of softwares or do optimization
=== zyga is now known as zyga-afk
[19:53] <chrisccoulson> i just installed gnome-shell on my laptop
[19:55] <highvoltage> I've been using it for the last 2 months or so, can't say that I'm too thrilled about it
[19:56] <bcurtiswx> if i install it, is it just an option at GDM  to choose ?
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, yes
[19:56] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, thx
[19:57] <chrisccoulson> i really like it, and mutter seems to run a lot smoother than compiz on my laptop too
[20:01] <bcurtiswx> hmm, yes this gnome-shell is confusing
=== ayan_ is now known as ayan
[20:31] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, wth happened to my titlebar buttons in unity?
[20:31] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, they taste like chicken and i got a little hungry??
[20:32] <chrisccoulson> bcurtiswx, they've gone AWOL ;)
[20:32] <bcurtiswx> ;)
[20:34] <bcurtiswx> was wayland going default this cycle?
[20:35] <bcurtiswx> chrisccoulson, you'll notice if window is maximized the buttons automagically reappear
[20:40] <bcurtiswx> well i guess i can't even install wayland, so nvm
[20:58] <geser> is there a way to move the launcher in unity-2d from one monitor to an other? it's currently displayed on my 2nd (left) monitor
[21:03] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, what account type were you testing empathy with?
[21:03] <bcurtiswx> AIM from haze
[21:04] <bcurtiswx> GTalk as well
[21:04] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, ^^
[21:04] <kenvandine> ok, it's working for me now with gtalk
[21:04] <fta> chrisccoulson, mine disappeared 2 days ago too
[21:05] <kenvandine> but it wasn't working for me with salut
[21:05] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, 3.1.1?
[21:05] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:07] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, do you have salut enabled at all?
[21:07] <bcurtiswx> salut is what?
[21:07] <kenvandine> "People nearby"
[21:08] <bcurtiswx> yes i do
[21:09] <kenvandine> try disabling that and testing again
=== alecu_ is now known as alecu
=== marrusl is now known as marrusl_afk
[21:39] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, did you have irc enabled in empathy?
[21:39] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, no
[21:39] <kenvandine> i turned off salut, and now it is working fine :/
[21:39] <kenvandine> and irc
[21:40] <kenvandine> i haven't tried turning irc on again
[21:40] <bcurtiswx> sjoerd may know why?
[21:41] <kenvandine> talked to him already, not sure
[21:41] <kenvandine> it is magically working now though...
[21:41] <bcurtiswx> with salut?
[21:42] <kenvandine> "People nearby"
[21:42] <bcurtiswx> which is salut...
[21:42] <kenvandine> oh, sorry misread that
[21:42] <kenvandine> no, it doesn't work with salut
[21:48] <bcurtiswx> i can't get it to show windows when i double click
[21:49] <kenvandine> right click and click "chat"
[21:49] <kenvandine> does that work?
[21:49] <bcurtiswx> nope
[21:49] <bcurtiswx> i have all disabled but GChat
[21:50] <kenvandine> have you logged out?
[21:50] <bcurtiswx> of my unity session?
[21:50] <kenvandine> or made sure you killed all the empathy related processes
[21:51] <bcurtiswx> no forgot to kill
[21:51] <bcurtiswx> works
[21:54] <bcurtiswx> was it just enabling salut that did it, because i just enabled it and i can still open chat windows
[21:55] <kenvandine> no idea
[21:55] <kenvandine> having it enabled works for me right now
[21:55] <kenvandine> but, it does seem to hang if i send a message to it via salut
[21:56] <bcurtiswx> i don't see anyone else on to check it :-\
=== marrusl_afk is now known as marrusl