[00:00] sebner: he's an uber-MOTU [00:00] sebner: you don't want to take away his upload powers ;-) trust me... [00:00] rofl [00:00] ^^ [00:00] I want to become the Master of the Merges :D [00:00] jdong: why is that? [00:00] ajmitch: Is rcbugs running against intrepid yet? [00:01] wgrant: no, it's a little early for that [00:01] ajmitch: cause you da man! [00:01] ajmitch: because that means more work than the rest of us ;-) [00:02] jdong: heh, not really [00:02] wgrant: Surely we want to run rcbugs against hardy until at least DIF, as every Debian change gets a merge listing. [00:02] * ajmitch will break it to run against both, anyway [00:03] once I un-hardcode some stupidity [00:03] yeah, actually at the moment the RCbugs list may be helpful in spotting SRUs [00:03] Cool. That makes it better for all. [00:03] * LaserJock has SRU on the brain :/ [00:03] LaserJock: Oughn't most of the entries remaining on the rcbugs list qualify for SRU? [00:03] LaserJock: which is a good thing :) [00:04] pochu: is there a reason why you constantly ignored my offer that you sponsor my merges? ^^ [00:04] persia: I would think so, hence why it'd be a good list to have around [00:04] persia: as we may want to look at this regardless of the presence of an Ubuntu bug [00:05] s/this/that/ [00:05] sebner: lol, where did you offer that? mail, irc? [00:05] LaserJock: Right. If it's not an Ubuntu bug, it ought get a comment. [00:05] sebner: I don't recall seeing that :) [00:05] pochu: 2 times in irc. classroom and classroom-chat [00:06] if somebody don't want to he/she won't see^^ [00:06] sebner: sorry, I guess there was too many noise ;) feel free to ping me for them, specially if they are python or gnome related [00:07] pochu: ^^ unfortunately not. just normal merges. :8 [00:08] persia: python-lp-bugs should help a bit for automating that [00:08] ScottK had a suggestion earlier for looking up linked debian bugs on LP [00:08] pochu: but if you check the sponsors list you may find something you want to review. the next days I'll try to fill it ^^ [00:09] .oO( smells like ajmitch in here ) [00:09] sebner: I'm not subscribed to the u-u-s mailing list... I just look at the bug list from time to time, so i'm not sure I'll be able to look at yours... [00:10] ogra: all lies [00:10] :) [00:10] hey [00:10] you saw nothing... [00:10] pochu: ok. np then [00:10] sebner: so if nobody looks at them, feel free to ping me ;) [00:10] hi :) [00:10] ogra: all crispy like? [00:10] pochu: well usually I have the problem that I have too many that there always can look at one ^^ [00:10] lol [00:12] ajmitch: Right. I was thinking of the cases where either a bug didn't affect Ubuntu as we hadn't merged the affected version, or it was fixed in Ubuntu, but the bugs not linked in LP. Having an autolink for LP is a great thing though, and ought reduce the effort required to keep the comments up-to-date. [00:15] I'll look up what previous suggestions have been made [00:18] So, how easy is it to take a ubuntu package and get it in debian? [00:19] Also, can a package have two maintainers, or does that get into the too-many-chefs issues? [00:19] ffm: it can be fairly easy and that's called co-maintaining and it's fine [00:19] LaserJock, Ah. kk. [00:20] MOTU maintain universe packages and I've not heard of too many people complainging about too-many-chefs [00:20] gn8 folks :) [00:24] How hard is it to get J. Random Python Library into main once it's in universe? [00:24] Assuming the package is not esoteric or a security package, and is well polished. [00:24] well, it depends on if it's needed [00:25] LaserJock, "needed"? [00:25] LaserJock, I mean it's useful for education... [00:25] generally a library is going to get pulled into Main because something else depends on it [00:26] what library? [00:26] LaserJock, python-gasp (not yet in universe). http://edge.launchpad.net/gasp-code (featured lp.net project) [00:27] hmm [00:27] I might consider that for Edubuntu if we get more similar learning tools for programming [00:29] but it needs to get into Universe first :-) [00:29] LaserJock, ok. (The dev on this helped write the edubuntu spec, btw) [00:29] which spec [00:31] LaserJock, This was back in 05-06 when there wasn't really all that much of edubuntu. I'm not sure which one exactly. [00:33] persia: ok, half-done for being run for multiple [00:33] multiple (ubuntu) releases, that is [00:37] How hard is it to start co-maintaining a package? (say, tor, that's always needing new maintainers IIRC) [00:39] ffm: not hard usually [00:39] you just gotta start contributing patches and help out [00:40] often times a current maintainer will ask if you want to become a comaintainer if they think you're ready [00:44] LaserJock, Would it be considered in edubuntu if there was a book to go along with it? (gfdl, of course). (oh, and it was the original edubuntu spec I was talking about) [00:45] well, a book would be cool to have [00:45] but I'm more thinking along the lines that we'd want a suite of programming education software [00:45] LaserJock, Like Scratch, Alice, LOGO, etc? [00:49] maybe [00:50] * norsetto goes to bed [00:50] we had a Summer of Code project for a python learning app, that would be something [00:50] gad what is the command to update po files. I cant' remember :( [00:51] porthose: intltool-update perhaps? [01:38] ScottK: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=478972 [01:38] Debian bug 478972 in tinyerp-server "Please add downstream patches." [Whislist,Open] [01:38] ScottK: that's what you ask me to do, didn't it? [01:41] * nxvl runs bbl [01:47] hi, i have a quick question about package-naming (versions). I'm packagin version 1.0~rc3 (upstream), with no changes (just added the debian/ folder), should the version be package-1.0~rc3-1 or package-1.0~rc3-0ubuntu1 or just package-1.0~rc3 ? [01:47] morten: -0ubuntu1 [01:48] ok, thanks :) [01:48] morten: -1 is reserved for Debian's usage, raw version numbers are reserved for natively debian/'ed packages. [01:48] ok [02:00] nxvl: 'whislist' may be an issue :) [02:02] Showing 1-24 of 4,294,967,296 Songs [02:02] hmm. [02:02] lucky query, or too suspicious to be accidental? [02:02] nope. just lucky. got 4.9mil the next attempt [02:02] depends on whether 2^32 is your lucky number? [02:03] slangasek: it's one of those numbers that makes us cringe when we see it outputted, no? :) [02:03] because it's much, much more likely to be an integer bound than an actual number of query results... :) [02:04] :) === elkbuntu is now known as elky [02:35] Where do I see the hoops I jump through to get my package in intrepid? === elkbuntu is now known as elky [02:35] I'm trying to make my first library package [02:35] is there good documentation somewhere === elky is now known as elkbuntu [02:38] coppro: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html [02:38] ffm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages [02:38] LaserJock, Merci, [02:39] thanks [03:08] Heya gang [03:09] hi bddebian [03:10] Hi LaserJock [03:32] ajmitch: but it is whislist, not even important :D [03:33] s/whis/wish/ [03:34] I'm surprised that the BTS didn't just reject that bug [03:35] though on http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=tinyerp-server it shows up in the outstanding normal bugs [03:42] Hi: I'm developing a little python script for posting in paste.ubuntu.com. I want this script on ubuntu universe. I have some experience with packaging (two packages for KDE Debian Team, KDE4 experimental) so I can make the package myself. Well, as I said, I have experience working with debian packagers, although little, this package would be for arch=all (interpreted). === boomer` is now known as boomer [03:44] ajmitch: yes, sorry! [03:44] ajmitch: why whould bts reject it? [03:48] because it's not a valid severity, but thatnkfully it looks like the BTS will accept pretty much anything [03:50] x1250: Is this script something that could not be accomplished easily by modifying the existing 'pastebinit' package? [03:52] RAOF: Yeah, didn't know that package. Then I'll improve it till mine is better. [03:53] or more flexible [03:54] Or you could improve pastebinit, of course :) [03:58] well, yeah, I can do that too :) [04:20] nxvl: Did you look at the latest Debian package and provide patches against that or did you give them the change that Ubuntu made to an older Debian version? === tbielawa_ is now known as tbielawa [05:29] ScottK: yep [05:29] ScottK: i downloaded the packages from MoM, i did the merge from newest debian [05:29] ScottK: and separate the patches by file [05:30] nxvl: Then yes. That sounds like what I wanted you to do. [05:31] ScottK: so now i can delete it from my ToDo? [05:31] nxvl: Thanks for looking after that. [05:31] Yes. [05:31] You may as well submit your merge for sponsorship too then. [05:31] ScottK: :D [05:31] Then if the Debian maintainer picks up the patches, we can sync later. [05:31] ScottK: i will better wait for an answer from the DD [05:32] ScottK: and then , depending on that to upload the debdiff or request sa sync [05:32] scot i will ping him tomorrow [05:32] ScottK: i will ping him tomorrow [05:33] Is anyone in here working towards becoming a MOTU? [05:33] im going for today [05:33] see you tomorrow [05:33] tbielawa_: yep [05:33] I just laid it out in stone today and I'm pretty siked about it [05:34] I work in the CS department at wvu where I'm going to school. we run it on ubuntu servers so I'm pretty close with it, we do packaging for all our system configs too [05:35] nxvl: I'd say get your merge uploaded and then wait. No need to ping the DD right away. [05:35] tbielawa_: There are a number of people working on that. I don't think except for nxvl any are around at the moment. [05:36] tbielawa_: Welcome. Let us know if you need help or to have questions answered. [05:36] thanks man! [05:36] I want to work towards getting on the motu-science team [05:37] LaserJock is often around this time of day. He's a good person to talk to about that. [05:37] ScottK: ok, i will do this tomorrow [05:37] * nxvl updates his ToDo and goes away [05:37] I found that the best way to get to be a MOTU was to dive in and get to work. [05:37] heh, I see his name on the wiki page, that's awesome that he comes around theis place [05:37] nxvl: Thanks. [05:38] ScottK: you are welcome [05:38] * nxvl HUGS ScottK [05:38] ScottK: btw, when are you arriving to Prague? [05:38] ScottK: are you going for FOSS Camp? [05:38] nxvl: I think I'm there for part of it. [05:39] * LaserJock stumbles in [05:39] ScottK: when are you arriving? [05:39] crazy timing that LaserJock has [05:39] * ScottK looks it up. [05:39] * ScottK hopes he wasn't carrying a laser [05:39] you never know [05:39] :-) [05:39] tbielawa_: you need to keep in mind that we are from around the world [05:40] tbielawa_: so maybe for you is a crazy hour but from him is a regular one [05:40] :D [05:40] I like that aspect about the FLOSS community [05:40] the crazy timing I was think of in a 'speak of the devil' type maner :) [05:40] tbielawa_: I gotta run for a quick shower and I'll be back if you're still up we can discusss your MOTU Science future ;-) [05:40] yes! I'll be around [05:41] mm [05:41] nxvl: I'm wrong. I get in late on the 18th. [05:41] ScottK: mm for the end of FOSS Camp [05:41] ScottK: but just in time for the FOSS Camp beers :D [05:42] That or collapsing from jet lag. [05:42] nop [05:42] The beer might help with that though. [05:42] :D [05:42] i wrong as always with the dates [05:42] :S [05:42] just fro the pre-UDS beers [05:42] :P [05:42] nxvl: Have you flown to Europe before? [05:42] ScottK: never [05:43] ScottK: the 2 times i have go out from Peru where to disney at the age of 7 and to Punta Cana for my prom trip [05:43] i spend 5 days drunk at dominican republic [05:43] :D [05:43] it was a nice trip [05:43] :P [05:44] Flying east a half dozen time zones is (at least for me) extremely painful from a jetlag perspective. Much worse than flying north/south or west. [05:45] ScottK: yep, my return trip seems to last 4 hours, with the timezone changes === tbielawa_ is now known as tbielawa_smkbrk [05:45] and more or less 24 hours for going to [05:45] well [05:45] im out now [05:45] i'll be back in an hour or so [05:45] see you === tbielawa_smkbrk is now known as tbielawa_ === tbielawa_ is now known as tbielawa [06:01] ahhh, killed my ghost [06:18] tbielawa: k, back [06:18] cool [06:18] tbielawa: so, you're interested in MOTU Science? [06:18] yep! [06:19] I think it fits in closely to what I do now [06:19] I work as a sys admin in the cs department at wvu (i'm also a jr there in the cs program) [06:20] cool [06:20] I'm a PhD chemistry student at University of Nevada [06:20] We run the network on ubuntu servers and desktop stations. THe fun part is packaging it all so it's automated. We're in the process of creating packages for differnet courses now so profs can have them installed on demand [06:20] That's a lot of chemisty [06:21] I really love the community aspect of ubuntu and that the motu's play so I'm trying to get my feet wet in the big pool. [06:22] cool [06:22] tbielawa: have you seen the MOTU Science wiki page? [06:22] yep, have it bookmarked [06:23] k, and do you have a launchpad account? [06:23] Yes, it's tbielawa, got my keys on there too [06:24] tbielawa: k, then if you feel like jumping in join https://launchpad.net/~motuscience [06:25] you'll be getting sent all the bugmail for the science packages [06:25] so you might want to make sure to have a filter set up in your email client ;-) [06:28] sorry about that LaserJock, wireless was dying [06:28] To answer your question, yes I do have a launchpad account. name is tbielawa on there too [06:29] tbielawa_: did you see what i said after that? [06:30] no, I miseed whatever you said [06:30] LaserJock: is there any way to filter LP e-mails by team? [06:30] nxvl: yes [06:30] couple different ways [06:31] tbielawa_: ok, here's what I said: [06:31] tbielawa: k, then if you feel like jumping in join https://launchpad.net/~motuscience [06:31] you'll be getting sent all the bugmail for the science packages [06:31] so you might want to make sure to have a filter set up in your email client ;-) [06:31] LaserJock: how? [06:31] LaserJock: i almost die trying to [06:31] nxvl: if you can filter on headers check the X-Launchpad-Rationale header [06:32] LaserJock: and it's driving me crazy to have different teams bug on the same folder [06:32] * nxvl check [06:32] if you can't (gmail for instance) use the footer text of the bugmail [06:32] app submitted [06:34] LaserJock: X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: you mean [06:35] nxvl: that could be it [06:35] tbielawa_: welcome aboard :-) [06:36] Thanks LaserJock! [06:37] Im glad summer break is the week after next. [06:37] I was too [06:37] Should give me a good opportunity to get into this [06:37] until I found out I'd be teaching chemistry lab this summer [06:37] L) [06:37] ohhhhh, not your favorite thing to do? [06:38] well, I'm trying to finish up my dissertation (as you can tell) so it's not great time-wise [06:39] ya that makes sense === tbielawa_ is now known as tbielawa [06:41] well, right now we're just barely getting going on intrepid [06:41] the archive just opened for general uploads [06:43] that makes the motu a bunch of busy people then [06:43] it does [06:43] you in particular with all that going on [06:44] http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html shows us the packages that we need to merge [06:44] so right now packages that Ubuntu hasn't touched are being automatically synced from Debian unstable [06:45] I'm not entirely sure what you're saying [06:45] these are the ports from debian then? [06:45] but package that we've modified (have "ubuntu" in the version) have to be manually merged over [06:45] ok, so Ubuntu is based on Debian [06:45] true [06:45] hmm I've touched 3 things, 1 of which can't be merged for the foreseeable future anyway :) [06:45] so at the beginning of each release we take the current packages from Debian unstable and rebuild them in Ubuntu [06:45] *whew* [06:46] that's syncing [06:46] if we haven't modified the source at all the syncing is done automatically [06:47] and relevant changes made in the -ubuntu changes are merged over then manully? [06:47] but if Ubuntu has modified it, then we have to manually merge the packages [06:47] right [06:47] thats much clearer now, thanks [06:48] so we have a tool called Merge-o-Matic (MoM for short) that keeps track of what needs to be merged and actually makes an programatic attempt at doing the merges [06:48] ! :) [06:48] 828 outstanding. Is that a hefty stack? [06:48] however, much of the time we need to do things by hand, and we always check anyway [06:48] * jdong is weird and loves merging by hand with version control systems [06:48] it is [06:48] There's 500 odd in main [06:49] holy crap why does claws's source package pump out a bazillion binaries? [06:49] isn't that really taking modularization to absurdity? [06:49] 0_o [06:49] tbielawa: as the release progresses and Debian maintainers upload new packages we might have new packages to merge or have to remerge [06:50] jdong: because it's special :-) [06:50] * tbielawa nods [06:50] tbielawa: in reality all this work is being done by a relatively few people [06:50] so that's why we love help :-) [06:51] I wouldn't be here if this wasn't something I was looking forward to helping [06:51] :) [06:51] tbielawa: generally at this point of a release cycle, Debian has been doing active work for several months on packages while we've been frozen and fixing bugs in existing features/packages... [06:51] tbielawa: after this big flood of merges, merging becomes much more pleasant :) [06:51] jdong: does it get into a flow? ubuntu develops one season debian freezes, then it switches? [06:52] with Debian's long release cycles, I've actually not witnessed a Debian freeze since I've gotten involved with Ubuntu development ;-) [06:52] ha, that's the truth [06:52] but certainly when Debian is imminent to release, their unstable repos do slow down [06:53] in fact I had to jump to a more aggressive distro back when they were freezing up 3.0 [06:53] 3.1 rather [06:53] so, @all. If I wanted to try and make a dent in this stack this weekend, what would be the first steps I take? [06:53] I can package, that's not a concern [06:53] I guess, I'm more looking for a... spot to throw anything I merge. REVU? [06:53] tbielawa: there is a wiki page with very verbose instructions on how to handle merging [06:53] * tbielawa nods [06:54] tbielawa: on the big picture scale, (1) Figure out what Ubuntu did to the old debian version (2) Figure out what Debian has done since the old Debian version (3) Decide which changes are worth keeping from the old Ubuntu version and port those patches on top of the new Debian version [06:54] tbielawa: Many MOTU consider it polite that if you are going to merge a package they touched last you check with them first. [06:54] tbielawa: but as ScottK said, it's a good idea to talk to the last-touched-by person [06:55] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging seems like the current wiki page for learning merging [06:55] tbielawa: It is a good practice anyway as it will often save you work. As an example, there are 9 packages that are on the merges list with my name on them that I've already asked to have synced. [06:55] So, the items listed might even have already been completed! [06:56] Right. [06:56] That is updated on a periodic, so it will inevitably lag. [06:56] tbielawa: a good idea is to first check the package's Launchpad page to see if there is a merge or sync bug [06:56] I think that contacting the last-touched-by folks would be a good way to start to interact and meet more of the motu's also [06:56] before you start launching into a big effort [06:57] yep [06:57] ha, ya [06:57] Heya all [06:57] hello [06:57] Hello warp10 [06:57] basically, if you're not sure ask [06:57] we don't bite [06:57] ...usually [06:57] worst that'll happen is some one says 'rtfm n00b' ;) [06:57] hi tbielawa, ScottK [06:57] tbielawa: That's a good point. Getting approved to be a MOTU is as much (if not more) about people trusting you and wanting to work with you than about technical skills. [06:58] I understand that sentiment [06:58] developing a ring of trust. makes me think of gpg keys for some reason [06:58] ;-) [06:59] Bonus points for good collaboration with Debian too. [06:59] I guess we should make sure the merging page is up-to-date huh? :-) [07:00] I did one bug fix today [07:00] very much bonus points for working with Debian [07:01] it's a silly one. there was a typo in the slocate package so I went and submitted a debdiff on 155-61 [07:01] there is a Debian Science group, though they are more of a user group than specifically packaging team like MOTU Science [07:02] Hmm, pbuilder create fails for intrepid [07:02] bug #225531 [07:02] Launchpad bug 225531 in pbuilder ""pbuilder create" fails for intrepid" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225531 [07:02] (*155061) How are the debian devs to work with [07:03] LucidFox: I'm pretty sure that'll work if you have a deboostrap that knows about Intrepid. [07:03] LucidFox: Bug 225526 [07:03] Launchpad bug 225526 in hardy-backports "Please backport debootstrap 1.0.9 from Intrepid to Hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225526 [07:03] have you guys felt much animoscity from them. I heard rumors that some are angry that 'ubuntu isn't giving back' (whcih I don't understand) [07:03] oh, wait... it's a bug in debootstrap then, not pbuilder [07:03] tbielawa: it very much depends on the developer [07:03] tbielawa: the vast majority are helpful and friendly, a few are not-so-friendly and vocal :-) [07:04] LucidFox: We need the new one backported. [07:04] LaserJock: got'cha [07:04] tbielawa: the vast majority of Debian developers I've interacted with in the process of forwarding bugs have been very friendly [07:04] tbielawa: Debian is very much a collection of individuals with individually varying opinions. [07:04] tbielawa: the more we work with them and help them the more friendly they are, in general [07:05] * ScottK has never had any problems. [07:05] I saw in a wiki page some where that it stressed making links on debian or any other upstream projects trackers about issues we find [07:05] Only if they are relevant to Debian. [07:05] tbielawa: yeah, in Launchpad if you either forward a bug to Debian or find an existing Debian bug for the issue you can link to it [07:05] right [07:05] Also Debian tends to want upstream bugs reported straight upstream and not to their BTS. [07:06] I have a question now about upstream bugs [07:06] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/slocate/+bug/155061 the typo came from upstream, should that get forwarded to... whoever is upstream for slocate? [07:06] Although that varies maintainer to maintainer too. [07:06] Launchpad bug 155061 in slocate "slocate typo: "serach_db"" [Low,In progress] [07:08] The kids' computer finally finished upgrading, so I'm going to bed. [07:08] Good night all. [07:08] g'nite ScottK [07:08] ScottK: night [07:08] nice to meet you [07:08] my server upgrade is about done [07:08] I'll probably be heading to bed as well soonish [07:09] same applies here. it's 2 on a week day... [07:09] welcome to MOTU Land :-) === Martinp24 is now known as Martinp23 [07:09] Thanks [07:09] some of us eat-breathe-sleep this stuff [07:09] others don't [07:09] irc? [07:10] that's the beauty of working in Ubuntu [07:10] ? [07:10] you can do as much as you're able when you're able [07:10] Sounds like a pretty good job to me :) [07:11] yeah .... but the pay sucks ;-) [07:11] my day job that does pay is sort of like an extension of this [07:11] We're migrating from dapper to hardy. [07:11] yeah, that's kind of a nice position to be in [07:12] Well, i'm doing most of the leg work. Other staffers are moving userland desktops and work stations to gutsy, right now Im investigating hardy and kvm :) [07:12] my research has nothing to do with computers so it's just a rather obsesive hobby [07:12] LaserJock: I wouldnt' trade it for the world [07:13] must be quite obsesive if you're the motuscience leader [07:13] well ... [07:13] if it was only MOTU Science that I did it'd probably be ok ;-) [07:14] though I haven't been doing as much as I used to [07:14] I'm going to call it quits now [07:15] It's been great getting to know you and onto the science motu team! [07:15] I'll see you all later on today most likely [07:15] yes, thanks for joining [07:15] Ogle is crashing constantly [07:15] my mom is near crying [07:16] There is no launchpad entity for it [07:17] well as a short-term solution, to prevent more crying family members, I'd suggest trying another DVD player like VLC [07:17] What should I use for navigating DVD's with menus and multiple episodes of things? [07:17] but ogle on launchpad is https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ogle [07:17] ...with pulseaudio. [07:17] VLC failed miserably with PA, has it been fixed? [07:17] k [07:18] ethana2: as of 12 apr 2008's upload, it's supposed to use the pulseaudio output by default [07:18] ok, got a crash logged in terminal [07:18] I've heard pretty good reports of VLC+pulse [07:18] so the version in ubuntu stable right now, correct? [07:18] ogle: dvdreadblocks only got 157, wanted 263 [07:18] ethana2: correct. Hardy shipped with that version [07:18] FATAL [ogle_mpeg_ps]: dvdreadblocks failed [07:19] ok good [07:19] ethana2: please file a bug on this, but it seems like either ARCCOS copy protection or a scratched DVD at this point [07:19] but let's make sure. I know little about ogle specifics [07:19] ethana2: also attach the last 30 or so lines of dmesg as a textfile [07:19] it needs to be 100% fault tolerant [07:19] alright, will do [07:20] ethana2: indeed I agree crashing is the wrong behavior for encountering unreliable DVDs [07:20] absolutely [07:20]