=== VampiricPadraig| is now known as VampiricPadraigT === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPada === VampiricPadraigT is now known as VampiricPadraig === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPadraigT === VampiricPada is now known as VampiricPadraig [13:57] do i detect a lack of enthusiasm? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/1278/detail/ [13:58] we could do with people signing up to this one if they're going to come along, as we need to book tables [14:01] slashtom: harass on the ML I guess :/ [14:02] on the mailing list? [14:02] mike has already posted [14:02] LD has a template / html / display bug [14:03] :P [14:03] i may report to the ILUG list in a couple of weeks [14:03] repost* [15:08] i will sign up when i get how , i dont have my password on this laptop [15:08] home [15:08] that is [15:09] tdr112: ello hows the job this week [15:13] ok stoping at 6.30pm these days , had to work all weekend [15:18] o_O [15:18] sounds like you're working too hard. [15:18] tdr112: unless you're arriving into work at 11am, they're taking the piss [15:19] Remember, you're soon enough out of college that you can just pretend this never happened on your CV. [15:19] aye, 3 months out of college... you can write off the time and nobody would think anything of it [15:20] just pretend you took a few weeks off to relax after college [15:20] and look for a new job. [15:20] tell these chancers to feck off. [15:20] If you can walk away from the bargaining table, you are in a position of strength [15:20] aye, unless they're paying well €80k+ [15:21] they're chances and really taking the piss [15:21] everyone goes through that. my ex-job was a PITA [15:22] hey, sorry to be jumping in, but I'll be moving to Ireland soon, and that seems like an appropriate discussion to ask this: what should I expect as "not taking the piss working hours"? :) [15:23] yep, even yesterday i was sent a graduate job add for a position in england that wanted someone with a minimum 2:2 and paying less than my former salary (i was software team leader) [15:23] Tribaal: nothing more than 40 hours per week [15:23] slashtom: really? Whow [15:23] where are you moving from? [15:23] good to know [15:23] Switzerland [15:23] graduate or with experience? [15:24] here the legal max is 42/week, and I currently do well over 50 [15:24] with experience [15:24] (10+ years) [15:24] aye, it depends on the company but IT skills are in short supply [15:24] ok [15:24] anyone who wants to retain their employees treats them well [15:25] those who don't, like ebel's former employer do badly (i don't think ebel has been properly replaced, and he left 12 months ago) [15:25] How come, by the way? Seems like there are lots of IT companies there - there should be schools etc... to match, so where do all the IT guys leave to? the US? [15:25] usually 'full time' means 9am → 5pm (or 5:30pm), Monday → Friday [15:25] legal max here is 48hrs per week IIRC [15:26] who did you work for ebel? :) [15:26] Ireland usually just uses the bare minimum of EU employee rights [15:27] Tribaal: there's limited local resource, i work for a company with about 30 employee. in the past 18 months we have taken on about 5 new developers who the majority (including myself) are immigrants [15:27] don't think it's a case of people leaving, more like jobs coming in. [15:27] e.g. us companies. [15:27] oh, gotcha [15:27] but I've always worked for irish tech companies, and there are load of them. [15:27] usually small companies [15:28] what do other activity sectors look like in Ireland? My wife isn't a techie - and she'll probably be looking for something sooner or later... [15:28] lots of pharmacutial i think... [15:28] not a lot of construction..... [15:28] (sorry - I don't mean to hijack the discussion, please tell me if I'm being a troll) [15:28] Tribaal: what area does she work in [15:28] you're grand [15:29] things like nursing, teaching and a lot of public sector jobs have not been hiring anyone for years.... [15:29] well she's into banking/finance (project management mostly) [15:29] well banking sector possibly not so [15:29] given ireland current woes with the banks [15:29] yeah [15:29] so PM work elsewhere possible [15:29] i don't know how many banking/finance jobs there are, but the banking industry kinda went downhill a bit [15:29] though BOI has a lot of contract PM work atm [15:30] yeah sounds reasonable [15:30] good to know for BOI (I assume Bank Of Ireland) [15:31] that's an interesting observation, you never really heard lots of techies going off to the USA to get work [15:31] recently or in the celtic tiger years... [15:31] here it's the big thing [15:31] most graduates dream of going to silicon valley to make it big [15:32] yes, there is some who'd do that.... [15:32] and most end up doing shitty jobs there instead of staying and earning a relatively good living [15:33] Tribaal: where are you based now ? [15:33] in Zurich, Switzerland [15:34] * ebel has been in the canton of zurich [15:34] (or maybe it was bern) [15:34] hehe [15:35] Tribaal: so you do realise the wages in ireland are a lot lower than Switzerland by a long shot as well [15:35] i don't think we went as far north as zurich [15:35] but living costs are much lower [15:35] czajkowski: price is much less in .ie than .ch [15:35] a lot of my mates are in Google Switzerland [15:35] Bern looks like a castle (all made of stone, plenty of medieval-looking structures), Zurich is more cosmopolitan/modern [15:35] it would be like moving from .ie to .uk [15:35] Tribaal: me and slashtom were riding motorbikes over the alps [15:35] slashtom: they've said different which is why one is leaving and 3 are staying for various reasons [15:36] czajkowski: yeah, Google has a big R&D center here [15:36] indeed [15:36] ebel: nice :) [15:36] Tribaal: get used to things not really working as well, and things not being as tidy. [15:36] yeah that's their big complaint when they come back visiting [15:36] I'm going to assume in switzerland things (e.g. busses/trains) work well and reliably. In Ireland things are a bit more... flexible. [15:36] ebel: we don't mind :) That's partly why we're leaving this place - too orderly, not enough room for opportunities [15:36] Tribaal: are you irish and want to move back ? [15:36] czajkowski: nope [15:37] Tribaal: so why Ireland ? [15:37] we're Swiss and French, and want to see the world, after living in a very tidy and boring country [15:37] ireland is deadly, of course :D [15:37] Well, we're not completely hippies yet, so we decided to move wherever one of us would have a job offer first [15:37] * slashtom tries to presuade czajkowski to move back :) [15:37] :) [15:38] (some of my friends went what I call the hippie way and "dropped everything and went to Africa" or something) [15:38] slashtom: no chance and I don't mind it here seeing as I'm half English and dad is English. I mean dads dad left england and went back to poland to his country [15:38] (didn't work out so well for them) [15:39] it's not as if I went to another country with no relationship with [15:39] Tribaal: aye we've had mates from Oz who did the EU thing and are now back in OZ [15:39] sorry, but what is OZ? [15:39] Tribaal: mailing lists (e.g. ILUG, python-ireland etc.) are good places to find job postings. [15:40] Australia [15:40] as well as the usual ones like moster.ie, and recruiters [15:40] (I'll have to upgrade my slang terms I think :) ) [15:40] that's where myself and czajkowski differ, i consider it a promotion to have moved from England to Ireland :) [15:40] :) [15:40] hehe [15:40] I was born here first remember [15:40] aye, i used monster.ie [15:40] and have relations here [15:40] since companies can spend ages looking for a job, enquire about all job postings. I've gotten a job from a 6 month old job posting and an interview with a 1 year old job posting. [15:41] recruiters will pick you up as soon as you sign up to monster.ie [15:41] Tribaal: also look at linkedin [15:41] good to know [15:41] yeah linkedin was what got me that job in Ireland [15:41] Tribaal: are you involved in the swiss or french loco ? [15:41] hopefully my wife will get something too :) [15:41] Tribaal: slashtom (being a recent immigrant) can teach you all about slang :P [15:41] :P [15:41] czajkowski: yea, the Swiss one [15:41] but it's kind of boring :) [15:41] Tribaal: so will you come along to the release party in ireland now [15:42] I mean everything is super difficult to organise for the Swiss loco since we speak 3 national languages... [15:42] czajkowski: probably not, I'll start working on the 1st of Nov (and before that I'll have to do the moving etc... in Switzerland) [15:43] but I'll definitely be there for the next one however :) [15:43] or for drinkups etc... in the mean time [15:43] Ah you already have a job, cool. [15:43] ebel: yeah, that was the "why Ireland" [15:43] in dublin? [15:44] then my wife will probably want to get one too if possible [15:44] cool. what sorta tech do you work at? [15:44] yeah Dublin [15:44] deadly! [15:44] ? [15:44] if you haven't found a place to live, remember that ireland has had a massive property crash. rents are falling rapidly. it's a renters-market. [15:44] oh? good to know [15:44] apartment prices (to buy) are down about 50% in 3 years. [15:44] ("deadly" = "brilliant" ) [15:45] ebel: oh ok :) Like in French then :) [15:45] I wasn't sure :) [15:45] le deadly [15:45] lol [15:45] "mortel" :) [15:45] daft.ie is good for rentals [15:45] good to know [15:46] thanks guys (and gals) [15:46] http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ - useful information [15:46] whow [15:46] the one link to rule them all [15:46] :) [15:47] http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ [15:47] deadly, thanks :) [15:51] ebel, also since you asked, I'm a (mostly) Python developer [15:51] Cool. Me too. [15:55] Tribaal: so where will you be working [16:35] Hi. I am probably wrong in this channel but I rely on the OS community. I'm looking for a good source about the irish job market which explains what exactly e.g. contract means in detail. For the curious one i would like to work in dublin and need some background information. [16:39] hehe, we were telling someone else about jobs in ireland earlier today (sorta) [16:39] what exactly do you not understand? what sort of job is it? (I assume some technology job?) Where are you coming from? UK? USA? [16:39] germany? [16:40] a "contract job" is not a permanent job, but would be similar. it's a job that's limited in time, and you are only employed to work for (say) X months, after that you are not employed anymore [16:41] it's like a freelancer job, or temporary job. [16:41] (However practically jobs (include permanent jobs) will have an employment contract) [16:42] dstaar: does that help? [16:44] i come from germany at the moment i study in a masters program applied computer science. [16:45] before writing my master thesis I would like to work in dublin for half a year that is my intention [16:45] contract based offers seem to be very popular [16:46] cool. There are a lot of technology jobs in dublin now. [16:46] there are still a lot of permanent jobs, not just contract jobs. [16:46] But if you only want to work 6 months, then a contract job might be best. [16:46] since then the employer knows you will not be around after 6 months. [16:47] it is also very flexible in germany permanent is more usual [16:47] if you go for a job interview, tell them that you want to quit the job in 6 months. be kind :) [16:48] permanent job is probably more common than contract job. there are probably more people working in a permanent job than a contract job. [16:48] germans are always kind :D [16:48] Some people don't want a permanent job and go from contract job to contract job. [16:49] what about insurance and tax issues by a contract jobs, how is that handled? [16:50] I am not sure.... http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ [16:50] http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ has lots of good information. [16:50] great source thank you. [16:51] do you know something about job chances. I mean there are a lot of job offerings in the it sector twitter is full of that. [16:51] there are a lot of technology/programming jobs in dublin now. [16:52] i got a bachelor degree, several years working experience and "some" english knowledge [16:52] do you live in dublin ebel? [16:54] for open source technologies you can try mailing lists, (e.g. ILUG), they often have job postings. [16:54] I live in Dublin. [16:54] Remember that some education qualification levels are different in different countries, but experience is always very helpful to you. [16:55] Dublin, being the capital city, and ~ 20% → 30% of the population has lots of technology jobs. [16:57] my plans are to come in autumn next year to dublin together with my girlfriend. A flat seems to cost about 600€ but i couldn't find anything about electricity and internet costs et cetera. [16:58] ireland had a big property crash (that's why the IMF/ECB bailout), so in 1 year, property might be less. [16:58] internet is about €30 per month for ~ 8Mbit broadband (aka DSL) [16:58] electricity is roughly similar per month. [16:59] just 8 Mbit, oh dear … no, just kidding :D [16:59] Some houses/flats have gas heating, some don't. [16:59] we don't (yet) pay council taxes or water rates. you may have to pay for rubbish collection (or if you live in a big apartment block you might not) [17:00] ok is it possible to get internet for 6month or there will be longe contracts? [17:00] usually contracts would be for 1 year. You can get prepaid 3G / mobile internet [17:00] so you can pay month by month for that. you might be able to get only 6 months of internet. maybe [17:01] i already did some research for 3G it's about 20€ for 7.5GB traffic. [17:01] wait, you might be able to get 6 months of broadband/dsl internet. You can definitly get only 6 months of mobile phone internet [17:01] yes, 3G wouldn't be as fast, or allow you to download as much. [17:02] sorry, irccloud went down for a while [17:02] i know bit it will be enough. [17:02] czajkowski: I'll be working with Dell [17:02] it's just for keeping contact to family. [17:03] dstaar: what operator is that? [17:03] wait. [17:04] it was one of the smaller companies. [17:04] that sound spretty good [17:04] meteor or 3 one of them. [17:04] you could get mobile data with your mobile phone plan. might be cheaper than a dongle. then use tethering to use the connection on your computer [17:05] as long as i get a micro sim. [17:05] ebel, what would you suggest for a mobile phone operator? [17:05] also one of the smaller ones? [17:06] there are only a few mobile phone operators really [17:06] nearly all have fine coverage in dublin (unless you're going up the mountains) [17:06] 3 is newish and can have spotty coveragwe [17:06] otherwise they are all practically the same. [17:06] i have a phone with emobile. [17:06] is 3 a real provider or just a reseller? [17:07] I think 3 are a real provider. [17:07] tesco mobile are a reseller. emobile is a reseller, but that's cause they (eircom) bought another mobile phone network (meteor), so it's the same company. [17:08] on eircom landline internet connection thepiratebay.org is censored and blocked. [17:08] (not on emobile or meteor, you can get to thepiratebay.org fine) [17:08] that is something which shouldn't be supported is there any more censorship? [17:08] wait - three has *all you can eat data* plans? [17:09] geez [17:09] I have to pay more than 20 Swiss francs for *1Gb*/month [17:09] i am paying 10€ for 1GB 3G the rest is transferred with GPRS [17:09] dstaar: no, tis only thepiratebay.org. The music industry asked them to block it, they did. :) [17:10] ebel - any landline operator know not to censor? [17:10] Ireland no longer blocks or censors books & films. (Go back 30 years and playboy was banned) [17:10] for instance in France they have "Free", who made a public statement saying they would not censor when asked to by the gov. [17:10] Tribaal: only eircom censor thepiratebay.org. everything else, is fine [17:10] ebel: ok [17:11] I should be ok to live with that [17:11] and can SSH tunnel anyway, if I *really* need to :P [17:11] we got a huge community in germany fighting against censorship it is scarring to hear that other countries already using their infrastructure for those cases [17:11] Tribaal: there might be 'fair usage' policy on that. ie might not be unlimited. [17:11] anyway using vpn or tor is the way to go [17:12] ebel, yeah but still :) There are such usage restrictions on mine too :) [17:12] * ebel has to go home, ttyl, this channel is usually pretty active. [17:12] hehe [17:12] ebel: take care [17:12] and thanks for all the info [17:12] thank you ebel [17:12] i'll be back … what a worse joke [17:12] tribaal where are you from? [17:12] hehe [17:13] dstaar: moving into Ireland too? [17:13] Switzerland for now [17:13] i want to move to dublin for half a year in 2012 [17:15] ah cool [17:16] * Tribaal jogging time - TTYL [17:16] actually i am studying but it seems hard to pay for university that's why i am looking for a job [17:37] Tribaal: ahh dell in dublin so in cherry wood ? [17:41] is dell looking for programmers? [20:01] moonpie: ping [20:43] czajkowski: yeah, cherrywood [20:44] don't know how much they are looking for programmers, but I assume at least a little, yeah