=== kwwii [n=kwwii@p54955AD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:17] w00t [12:17] well, the installation went well [12:17] I am amazed [12:20] wow, and the function keys work === chavo [n=chavo@atlsfl-bundle-69-167-86-78.atlsfl.adelphia.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@p54A73CAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === ingmar [n=ingmar@86-39-0-116.customer.fulladsl.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel === neversfelde [n=chrman@195.71.22.176] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:48] kwwii: what's that? [12:49] Riddell!!! [12:49] morning Hobbsee [12:49] heya === Hobbsee dances around - no work today!!! [12:50] well I was waiting for the announcement on u-d-a for herd 2 but that doesn't seem to be happening [12:50] Riddell: well, it exists, because i proof read it. === Hobbsee wonders if it's in moderation [12:53] well kubuntu.org points to the Herd2 page now [12:53] Hi Riddell, Hobbsee [12:53] Riddell: thanks [12:53] hey mhb :) [12:54] Riddell: it seems screenshots are available too [12:54] http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.04%20Alpha%202 [12:57] Riddell: dude, herd2 works great [12:58] other than the funky installation stuff [12:58] Riddell: the partioner scared the shit out of me [12:58] but in the end it works great [12:58] kwwii: why so? [12:58] Hobbsee: because the first page was empty for about 10 minutes [12:58] ah [12:58] and then qparted popped up about 100x100 [12:59] and I had no idea what to do with it [12:59] only after clicking on next did I see the actual partitions to install on [12:59] very confusing [12:59] and I kinda know what I am doing in that sense [12:59] anyway [01:00] in the end, other than that, I am impressed [01:00] powermanager works now, as do the special keys to change the monitor brightness, etc [01:00] much better than edgy [01:02] hehe, nice :) [01:03] well, let me see if I can get my wlan working :p [01:03] I am building the latest inkscape now, it seem to build fine [01:03] night all [01:03] night Zerlinna [01:04] :) bye kwwii === superstoned [n=supersto@86.92.111.236] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:04] gute Nacht Zerlinna [01:04] mhb: ;) ... und weg [01:05] if nothing else, I'l bug someone in oslo about getting the wlan working :p [01:05] kwwii: what's wrong with the wlan? [01:05] that is the best reason to attend such meetings if you ask me ;-) [01:06] Hobbsee: this is a ppc machine..gotta cut the openfirmware from the cd, etc. [01:06] ahh === pat__ [n=pat@bas75-1-81-57-4-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:06] it worked out of the box on the laptop I bought my wife for christmas [01:06] I even thought about taking that and buying her a new one [01:06] hey === lotusleaf [n=lotuslea@kernel-panic/member/carne.asada.burrito] has left #kubuntu-devel ["trombone"] [01:06] but I think I will buy myself an x-60 [01:06] hey [01:07] hey bobesponja :) [01:07] hey Hobbsee [01:07] dude, you do not know how much I love sponge bob [01:07] kde mounts my ipod as read-only and I can't transfer my mp3s on it, that's weird cause it used to work before [01:09] kwwii: any idea what's wrong? [01:10] bobesponja: no idea, I'll try it with my ipod tomorrow :-) [01:10] bobesponja: is it mounted as root? [01:10] once I find the cable [01:11] Hobbsee: no it's mounted as regular user [01:11] hrm [01:11] Hobbsee: using the kautomount or whatever it's called [01:13] anyone here know where I put that stupid cable? [01:13] kwwii: everyone in germany loves that [01:14] /dev/sdb3 on /media/ipod type hfsplus (rw,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,gid=1000) that's what mount says [01:15] hrm [01:15] dunno on that one [01:15] hehe, I found it! [01:15] amazing [01:16] man, this evening is going pretty well [01:17] hrm [01:17] doesn't work here either [01:17] kwwii: do you use edgy with all the latest updates? [01:17] apparently one needs to add a precommand or such [01:18] bobesponja: on edgy it worked great for me [01:18] bobesponja: but on feisty it does not [01:18] kwwii: here too but since the latest update it doesn't and I'm still on edgy [01:18] probably the same problem then [01:18] kwwii: what precommand did you use? [01:18] bobesponja: none [01:19] on my old edgy system it needs none [01:19] the latest update was on the kernel I think [01:20] well, it does not work here, even with the suggested precommand [01:21] luckily I still have osx [01:21] :p [01:21] kwwii: what is that suggested pre command? [01:21] mount %d [01:21] at least, it says that in the pop-up [01:22] but even when I try to simply mount it as device it does not work [01:22] something is wrong on the kernel level, I guess [01:22] normally it finds it as external drive [01:23] yepp, on my old edgy system it works fine [01:24] kwwii: but is it updated? [01:25] hrm it says read-only although it mounts it [01:25] funky [01:25] yeah, it is updated [01:25] on feisty it does not work at all [01:25] not even to mount it [01:28] well, I can get it working by mounting the device through /media/ [01:28] on edgy that is [01:28] on feisty it does not work at all [01:29] but on edgy can yo uwrite on it ? [01:30] nope [01:30] not even as root [01:31] just tried in the terminal as root [01:31] fscked up [01:31] on suse it works great :p [01:31] then again, I know the guy who takes care of that personally [01:31] ;-) [01:32] kwwii: on suse? [01:32] always good to have lots of friends who are developers [01:32] bobesponja: yepp [01:32] ok, I'm only on kubuntu :/ [01:32] yeah, in the meantime I only run kubuntu too, but I have one system to test suse [01:33] and I must say that ipods always work because of Norm (Henne Vogelsang) [01:33] great guy, but I still won't use suse [01:33] :p [01:33] yep, but I think there's a general problem with mount, not with ipods [01:34] anywho, that sucks :/ [01:34] That's okay, SuSE will be in violation of the GPLv3 when it's released anyway. [01:34] ^_^ [01:34] well, chmod does not work eithUnnamed [01:34] erm [01:34] either [01:35] funky [01:35] no idea [01:35] time to reboot into osx where ipods and wlan works :p [01:35] and the battery more than 1.5 hour lasts [01:35] funky how bad kubuntu is with the battery [01:36] I mean, in osx I get 4-5 hours out of it [01:36] and in linux 1.5 [01:36] horrible, really [01:36] and I could cook an egg on it [01:36] my hands start to sweat [01:37] kwwii: linux 1.5? [01:37] one and half hours [01:38] and it says that my cpu is only running at 833MHz [01:38] which cannot be right [01:38] kwwii: I have the same problem [01:38] and/or the powermanager info is incorrect [01:38] mhb: does yo ipod work on it? [01:38] kwwii: well, not with the same machine, but it also drains life quickly [01:39] bobesponja: a CD player is all I own, sorry [01:39] mhb: but yo udo have a mac though :) [01:39] right? [01:40] I only have macs :-) [01:40] so I am screwed [01:40] I guess it is my fault for choosing this job :p [01:41] kwwii: what's your job? [01:41] artist [01:41] bobesponja: not even that ... [01:42] kwwii: ever heard of the gimp? :) [01:42] if I did not have a mac, I would loose lots of jobs and/or have to buy lots of new software which does not work so well and always work around using MS crap [01:42] good night everyone [01:42] bobesponja: sure, and I use it a lot but that is not realistic in the proffesional art world [01:42] great stuff, but not ready for the real world yet [01:43] just try and make decent cmyk stuff with gimp [01:43] or decent 3d rendering with blender [01:43] or decent vector art with inkscape [01:43] it is all the same [01:43] kwwii: the elephant movie looked pretty to me [01:43] it comes close and in some cases I can use it, but mainly I need real software [01:44] bobesponja: naaaa, they spent months on making those few minutes [01:44] sorry, but that is not realistic [01:44] kwwii: that's because they were few people working on it [01:44] I could show you things I made that are as good as that which only took me a few weeks [01:45] bobesponja: I did stuff like that alone within weeks [01:45] I mean, I know some of the people who did that, and I am impressed that they got that far [01:45] but it is not ready for the real world yet [01:46] I do a lot of video editing...what does one use in linux? nothing is as good as the hardware stuff available for other systems [01:46] wow then if you can do movies like the elephant in few weeks, why don't you make an entire movie like this? that would be like a new pixar or something in less than a year [01:46] I have a media100 system (used for making quite a few films) and it is way better than anything under linux [01:47] bobesponja: I have made two music videos and quite a few commerials for siemens with that sytem [01:47] not mention quite a few other smaller companies [01:47] the hard part is getting into the business [01:48] no, a few minutes is one thing, and *really* hard [01:48] making a whole film is something completely different [01:48] and making it really proffesional is another step above that [01:49] trust me, if you have never worked in the field it all looks a lot easier than you would guess [01:50] kwwii: do you do artwork for kubuntu? [01:50] bobesponja: yepp [01:50] kwwii: I know it's hard, that's why I'm surprised yo ucould do the same as the elephant in few weeks [01:51] but I think they worked on new features in the process, that's why it took so much time plus it's very polished [01:51] well, with propriatary systems you buy plugins (or write them yourself and sell them as we did) and it is a lot easier [01:51] yeah, that is exactly the point [01:52] they had to develop the software for more than half of what they did [01:52] making things move like real bodies, etc [01:52] not to mention that the renderer itself is simply not the same quality as proprietary sytems [01:52] that is why people pay money for thingts [01:53] things move so fast in that world that you either keep up, push things further or fall behind [01:53] it really costs a lot of money [01:53] no matter what [01:53] apache is free and it's better than anything out there, so you don't _allways_ have to pay money for things [01:53] and remeber that they got a lot of money to do what they did [01:53] it is not like they did it for free [01:54] yeah, but that kind of stuff is different than multimedia stuff [01:54] trust me, try it and find out [01:57] it's not different, they just need to catch up a little, they'll probably get there in a couple or year [01:57] of year [01:59] maybe in several years but by then the expensive software will be way beyond that [02:00] of course, there are parts of it that is very usable but there are effects that are created new for every new project [02:00] you cannot imagine how much money is put into such stuff [02:00] that is why I got out of the business even though I was paying lots of money for software and trying to write certain parts myself [02:01] yes but they can't beat a community of thousands of developpers, just like microsoft couldn't do better than firefox with ie7 even though it has billions [02:02] sure, maybe in 20 years we will have that kind of thing [02:02] but for now, that world is not the world of most open source devs [02:02] lol 20 years? yo must be new to FOSS [02:02] although they could rock in it and make killer shit, it is not *that* hard [02:02] in the end it is replicating physics or faking it [02:02] but there is not enough interest in it [02:03] instead we have 5 text editors [02:03] I mean, why doesn't linux have really good vector editor yet? [02:03] that would be the first thing you need to make good 3d graphic s [02:03] but even that is missing [02:04] inkscape is half way there already [02:04] yeah, exactly, it is halfway there [02:04] and how well can I use a program that is halfway there as artists [02:04] well, I get 50% of what I want out of it [02:05] if I really know what I am doing, I get 70% [02:05] believe me, I try to use inkscape as much as possible [02:05] but I have a list of things that are missing since years [02:05] and the never get done [02:06] because nobody cares [02:06] well if you can do 70% with a new project like inkscape I guess in a couple of years it should be 100% :) [02:06] devs think they are unimportant [02:06] well, devs work for free so... [02:06] they would rather tell me how amazing it as and how if I worked around that stuff and accepted that it is not possible I could make good work [02:07] yepp, true, and I accept that [02:07] but still [02:07] reality is reality [02:07] and I need to earn money [02:07] heck, just try to make anything in cmyk in linux [02:07] krita [02:07] forget it [02:07] you cannot proof it [02:07] so you make some file but you do not know how it really looks [02:08] and that does not go over well with the company who is paying you money [02:08] krita does manage cmyk [02:08] when they pay money for the print stuff and it looks different than the stuff on the screen [02:08] no, krita includes that colorscpace [02:08] tha is all [02:08] that [02:09] it cannot show me how it will look when printed [02:09] every printer is different [02:09] and has a profile [02:09] I need that info to know how it will really look in the end [02:09] honestly, it is like me saying "coding is just a text file" [02:09] there are some open printers drivers [02:10] why can't I just write a simple text file saying what I need [02:10] yeah, there are a few [02:10] and they do not even work that well [02:10] nor do most of the printers use them [02:10] and what about fonst? [02:10] fonst [02:10] ahhh [02:10] fonts [02:10] lets use open source fonts! [02:11] hahaha [02:11] forget it [02:11] the spacing it wrong [02:11] the font hints are crap [02:11] or missing [02:11] forget it [02:11] they look good to me [02:11] yeah [02:11] and there are plenty of them [02:11] sure [02:11] try and make money with taht [02:12] believe me [02:12] I have had this conversation with sooooo many people [02:12] it is as naive as me saying a source file is a text file [02:12] hmm, well it is a text file [02:13] sorry, but developers then to think things are sooo simple becuase they can do what they do [02:13] kwwii: So join the project. [02:14] honestly, if you were in the business you would see why things are as they are, anything else is naive [02:14] manchicken: which project? [02:14] kwwii: And coding IS just working with a text file ^_^ [02:14] inkscape [02:14] and how much time do I have as artist to do that kind of thing [02:14] yep, a source file is a textfile [02:15] manchicken: I have entered important bugs in inkscape years ago, but they ignore them [02:15] kwwii: No less than I have as a programmer. [02:15] kwwii: So help. [02:15] because they mistakingly think they know better [02:15] That's what I do. [02:15] it is sad [02:15] So make some free software fonts. [02:15] I have soo much good input [02:15] and they ignore it [02:15] But no help [02:15] but luckily the koffice people are listening [02:15] the new koffice stuff should be pretty good [02:16] at least in the vector tools [02:16] You've gotta be willing to do more than complain and suggest. At the very least join in on the QA stuff. [02:16] dude, making fonts is something that people do for a fulltime job [02:16] manchicken: he does artwork for kubuntu though [02:16] That's good ^_^ [02:16] I could not do that without years of experience [02:17] kwwii: Nonsense. [02:17] no, not nonsense [02:17] try it [02:17] hehe. i think manchicken just suffered from an episode of "foot in mouth" disease there [02:17] kwwii: I have. [02:17] and try to earn money with it [02:17] honestly [02:17] it is easy to make one that looks good to you [02:17] but make one that is really good [02:17] Hobbsee: Naw, I just see people complaining about things that they're not willing to fix, and have to point out the obvious solution. ^_^ [02:18] nothing in the opensource world comes close to arial or any of the other [02:18] s [02:18] kwwii: I earn money with Free software every day. [02:18] manchicken: what's your job? [02:18] but not with fonts [02:18] I'm a programmer. [02:18] kwwii: How hard is it to make a font? [02:18] manchicken: I know :) but who do yo work for? [02:18] lool [02:18] lol [02:18] rotfl [02:18] exactly [02:19] how hard is it [02:19] and how would you know? [02:19] bobesponja: I work for an advertising company. We provide online advertising services. [02:19] kwwii: Can't be that hard. [02:19] and how many open source fonts does your company use? [02:19] manchicken: WRONG [02:19] kwwii: dejavu looks better tan arial to me [02:20] yeah, to the blind eye it is great [02:20] kwwii: Software services don't really make much use of fonts. [02:20] and for online purposes some of them are ok [02:20] dude, typography is friggin hard [02:20] people earn millions making fonts [02:20] So? [02:21] it is naivite to think that everything is simple [02:21] yepp [02:21] honestly [02:21] Simple? No. [02:21] Possible to help, yes. [02:22] I guess I must be blind then 8) [02:22] perhaps one day things will be different but to ask people who need to pay their rent and feed their kids to use such stuff is silliness [02:22] anyway [02:22] time for bed [02:23] kwwii: It must be nice to complain about something you're unwilling to help. [02:23] see you all tomorrow [02:23] manchicken: dude, I do help, all the time [02:23] why do you think I am here? [02:23] I mean, I have only done open source stuff for 9 years now [02:23] I think he has a "right" to complain as the kubuntu artwork lead. [02:23] but that does not change the facts all the sudden [02:23] kwwii: using propriatary software? [02:23] Then why not help out with fonts then? [02:24] bobesponja: for certain things, like printing, yes [02:24] manchicken: why don't you work as an architect? [02:24] kwwii: I don't want to, and I have no desire to. [02:24] it is a specialty [02:24] Naw. [02:24] and I have no desire to work in that specialty [02:25] oh, yes it is [02:25] and if you say different then you prove your ignorance [02:25] That's the problem I have with traditional thinking like that. what says I can't learn to do architecture? [02:25] ever heard of font hinting? [02:25] he's not saying you can't learn [02:25] Nope. I don't do the font thing. But if I had a problem, I could learn. [02:25] honestly, it is really hard [02:25] Have you tried? [02:25] I think you could do well if you tried. [02:26] and I am not about to start working on something that I simply do not have enough time to get really good at [02:26] yes, I have treid [02:26] tried [02:26] I made the suse font [02:26] out of several other fonts [02:26] Then you *ARE* helping ^_^ [02:26] and it is still shit, when it comes to printing [02:26] And you should have said that before. [02:26] :) [02:26] :p [02:26] he did [02:26] No, he said he did artwork ;) [02:27] (and HE didn't say it, someone else did) [02:27] :P [02:27] i did :) === crimsun decides he has a thousand other bugs to triage [02:27] I don't know art from fart, but that never stopped me from trying. [02:28] art from fart? let me note that down :) [02:28] bobesponja: It's a good one. Use it. [02:28] Back in a bit. [02:29] oh mean [02:29] mean [02:29] ahhh [02:29] man [02:29] bobesponja: have a bit of respect for things you know nothing about [02:30] I try as hard as I can to do everything with OSS [02:30] and to further that [02:30] but reality is reality [02:30] sorry if you don't like it [02:30] but that is life [02:30] and with that, I am out [02:30] kwwii: I think you're mistaking me with manchicken I didn't say nothing for a while [02:30] :) [02:30] good night [02:30] perhaps [02:30] anyway [02:30]