[12:25] somerville32, yeah... we kind of had a HUGE thing this weekend which put everything else on hold [12:26] Whats going on this weekend? [12:26] PriceChild: what are these issues anyway? [12:26] LjL, forums and wiki aren't compatible.... wiki is meant to be changing license... [12:26] Will help us move guides etc. [12:27] somerville32, we had basically a troll attack by the guys at modfree [12:27] oh and arnieboy issues [12:27] PriceChild, Do elaborate [12:27] What is "modfree"? [12:28] sl [12:28] somerville32, http://modfree.2.forumer.com/index.php [12:28] somerville32, they've hidden their "Ubuntu Forums" talk now so you can only get in if you request it... but its not nice [12:29] Whats the issue? [12:29] which one? [12:29] Ubuntu Talk [12:29] A forum dedicated to anything about Ubuntu. [12:30] not that one [12:30] as I say... its hidden [12:30] PriceChild, Why are they doing this? [12:30] Like... what is the issue? [12:30] Or "What is their issue"? [12:30] basically its a group of people who want to be able to say whatever they want [12:30] and that includes attacking other members and making jokes about the disabled [12:31] PriceChild: htats teribble [12:31] PriceChild, What is their side of the story? [12:31] they just think we moderate too much and should be able to speak their mind === PriceChild tries to find a quote about himself [12:33] LjL is awesome, he's better than KDE -- Linus Torvalds === Link31 [n=debian@77.192.78.47] has joined #ubuntu-ops === Link31 [n=debian@77.192.78.47] has left #ubuntu-ops [] [12:35] :) [12:37] Thats what they said [12:37] ":)"? [12:37] I think you guys are looking into it too hard :P [12:37] Maybe they like you? [12:38] Oh wait [12:38] I get it [12:38] Thats just out of context [12:38] The rest was too gruesome to share here [12:45] well that was odd.... [12:45] (ikonia) === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Seveas] by ChanServ [12:46] yes should grep a little === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v gnomefreak] by ChanServ [12:52] Mez: were you able to find the 30gig lost? [12:53] tonyyarusso, bah, ikonia was probably right with saying that your not having a /dev/hdc didn't really have much bearing, from what i can understand [12:53] however i still don't quite like the general attitude [12:54] gnomefreak, working on it [12:54] LjL: It sounded like he was saying there not being an hdc was unusual...hard to understand and follow anywya [12:55] oh ok sorry but i tried with that issue and couldnt figure it out. i still think its caught up in cache or something. like copingit caused them to download or something [12:56] quite hard yes, since they didn't use nicknames for a few of the exchanges... but ikona never really said one *must* have an hdc - s/he just said that, *if* you have a /dev/hdc, then removing it shouldn't really survive a reboot - it'll come back [12:56] gnomefreak, it's probably just badly journalled... i've made him force an fsck on boot [12:56] LjL: ah [12:56] ah [12:57] at any rate... dunno, i think ikonia is not a troll, but sounds like s/he comes from other channels and should adjust to the kind of attitude we generally keep #ubuntu [12:58] gnomefreak, I was right [12:58] * Thehound666 has quit ("Leaving") [12:58] strange. I got my space back but lost my xchat network settings [12:58] what was it? [12:59] basdly journalled [12:59] didnt we ba java [12:59] ah [01:00] gnomefreak, it probably got f**ked up when he was copying , and the ext3 didnt update the inode table properly [01:00] forcing an fsck shoulda fixed tathtat [01:00] nothing to do with kubuntu [01:00] just linux [01:00] ah ok [01:02] gnomefreak: i have no clue what you are talking about. is java a user? [01:02] nalioth: we seem to get alot of trolls using javauser as a name [01:03] ahh [01:04] gnomefreak: like that? [01:04] yep :) i forgot the ? [01:04] i set a wildcard *javauser* ban [01:04] with the * [01:05] gnomefreak: /whois the perp, for a better idea of what/how to ban [01:05] gnomefreak, that means their using a java based web client for IRC [01:05] i did who is i must have looked at it wrong but yes that would be it Mez [01:06] http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#webchat [01:06] well for now it should be fine i would think [01:06] well [01:06] gnomefreak, where did you ban *javauser*? [01:06] kubutnu [01:06] ack [01:06] kubuntu [01:07] yesterday we had one guy coming here to complain that he was banned - that was fun, because he wasn't *really* a java user, he claimed he used that name to "hide" himself... or something [01:07] You do know that might ban a lot of *good* users since I'm assuming javausers is just a default for some java client [01:07] somerville32: yep i do [01:07] but since its abused most of time they can get a cloak or stop using it [01:08] well for that matter there's also good uses of web-to-IRC gateways, still i was banned on the one i'd tried [01:08] gnomefreak, Maybe make it a ban forward to a channel with info on how to fix the issue? [01:08] somerville32: anyone who can't take the half second to put "john doe" . . . . [01:08] wikipediagast was the first one i ever saw use the javausers gateway [01:08] nalioth: well, if they don't *realize* that's the reason they can't join, though... [01:09] somerville32: its not a broken issue its something they dont need to do they choose to use it [01:09] perhaps a forward could actually be a decent idea [01:09] though i also suppose it would give us away somewhat [01:09] Whats wrong with using a java client? [01:09] LjL: that would defeat the purpose of the ban [01:09] gnomefreak: being? [01:10] somerville32: its been nothing but abused for a long time [01:10] LjL: foward to channel to show how to get around it doesnt seem logical [01:10] that would mean luck wikipediagast and others will just keep it up [01:11] IF they really want to bother you, don't you think they'd figure out how to get around it anyhow? [01:11] somerville32: but why make it easy? [01:11] well on one hand it's claimed that it's easy enough to change one's name, and if you want to join you should bother doing that -- but on the other hand we stand that we should keep this "workaround" obscure and hope people don't know it [01:11] i'm not sure these go together logically [01:11] gnomefreak, Sounds like security via obscurity to me. [01:12] somerville32: its like i ban you by name than i tell you all you have to do is change your name [01:12] somerville32: there is NOTHING wrong with a java client, but one should put "john doe" instead of 'default user" [01:12] the ban becomes usless and never should have been set [01:12] nalioth, right [01:13] And looking at the log of #kubuntu, it was't like luck was being overly disruptive. It doesn't take long to type /cs ban [01:13] gnomefreak, Or are the other *javausers* even worse? [01:13] somerville32: i banned him by hostmask but since most of the users abuse the java gateway same as tor is abused [01:14] yeah, we have a JavaUser@ ban in #ubuntu [01:14] somerville32: this isnt something that was just today its been set in #ubuntu for a long time [01:15] same with tor/gateway i believe is the ban [01:15] ok [01:15] :) === Jucato [n=jucato@210.213.223.236] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Jucato] by ChanServ [01:16] ty apokryphos that was the one i was thinking of [01:17] gnomefreak, i think you should prefix a ?= or * to that ident [01:17] it has * [01:18] *JavaUser@* [01:18] gnomefreak: did you make a +d ban or a +b ? [01:18] gnomefreak, only for the nickname, but whois yourself or myself and look at the ident [01:18] +d [01:18] +b [01:18] Err.. [01:18] nalioth: already has the +d ban seet [01:18] set [01:18] +d is real name -- something different [01:18] though gnomefreak, actually, i don't see an *ident* ban on JavaUser@* on #ubuntu [01:18] i set a +d ban on Java?User in #kubuntu [01:19] ah no wait, me messed up with banlist, i guess it's there [01:19] LjL: nalioth set +d Java?User and i set +b *JavaUser@* [01:19] hm well no it's still not =) [01:20] gnomefreak: yes, but i was saying that, on #ubuntu, we don't have the +b as far as i can see but only the +d [01:20] what else would need to be banned? [01:20] oh we had it at one time [01:20] gnomefreak: also, what you set was not *JavaUser@* but *!JavaUser@* -- that means any nickname, and any host, and an ident *exactly* matching "JavaUser" -- but i don't think you can have an ident like that [01:20] it'd be either n=JavaUser or i=JavaUser [01:21] so i think *!=?JavaUser@* (or just *!*JavaUser@*) would be the mask you want [01:21] err, swap = and ? [01:22] ?=javauser [01:22] it did that all i did was +b JavaUser@ it put the * in there [01:22] are n and i the only 2 every used? [01:23] gnomefreak: ok, but what i'm saying is that won't work [01:23] i think so gnomefreak [01:23] not identified and identified [01:23] (which means with identd, mind you, not with services) [01:23] gnomefreak: yes [01:24] so just ban *!JavaUser@*? [01:24] without the ? [01:24] or use ? instead of ! [01:25] gnomefreak: ? replaces any single charachter [01:25] gnomefreak: ! is used to seperate fields in the identification === tonyyarusso grrs === hybrid [n=x@72.169.30.254] has joined #ubuntu-ops [01:25] better? [01:25] But, also laughs at how they find out who's muted === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v hybrid] by ChanServ [01:26] we hav e abunch of mutes in #ubuntu btw [01:26] have a bunch [01:26] it wouldnt let me set it [01:26] thats strange === yipe [n=yipe@12-218-163-227.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-ops [01:27] Oh look [01:27] Yipe [01:27] he called me a redneck, I'm allowed to say that i'm not! [01:27] who banne dyipe? [01:28] I'm not banned, just muted [01:28] by me [01:28] oh ok [01:28] he said I'm a redneck, I'm a liberal with a college education, hardly a redneck [01:28] And honestly, it will be off before you finish this conversation if no funny business happens [01:28] gnomefreak: an IRC mask is !@hostname - the wildcard characters are "?" (matches any one character) and "*" (matches any number of characters), and in particular, for the ident Freenode uses these "n=" and "i=" prefixes === tonyyarusso used /at [01:29] yipe: You told me you're 16 [01:29] also, I find it offensive that he called me crazed just because I disagree with him [01:29] What? I'm 23! [01:29] gnomefreak: other networks just use the bare ident if verified with identd, or prefix it with "~" if not verified -- but that's less than optimal, because to ban an ident no matter whether it's verified or not you have to use a "*" wildcard [01:29] fixed [01:29] yipe: Or maybe it was 19? I remember you telling me about how you live with your mom and your step-dad is a jerk to you. [01:29] gnomefreak: with freenode's way you can make bans more specific by using the ? wildcard for specifying "ban this ident whether verified or not" [01:30] that part is true, I had to move to back in with my parents after I lost my job, shortly after starting college [01:30] but I'm 23 [01:30] I'm also upset that firststrike wasn't banned until after me [01:31] he started the subject, and he was the one with all the insults, I didn't say anything about him, I even conceded when he said something correct [01:31] we start banning at z and work backwards [01:31] yipe, a break? you're seriously complaining about the *order* of bans? [01:31] PriceChild: you seem to have split beryl-settings too i see a -simple [01:32] LjL: thats how i read it [01:32] gnomefreak, indeed... I haven't used it yet... *me runs* [01:32] yipe, chill and read your scrollback [01:32] LjL, we should have at least been muted together, [01:32] PriceChild: its now updating/installing [01:33] yipe: one at a time most scripts dont handle multi bans at one time [01:33] and i thought you were muted [01:33] please review ImNotScrewedAnym's work, those of you with an ATI card (or a clue about all this) - http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (well, i suppose i should have told him the *Ubuntu* wiki, but anyway) [01:33] and, anyway, what wiki should this go to for a start? it comes from the forums [01:34] gnomefreak, that thing's pretty nice :) [01:34] it is? [01:34] is it added to setting-manager? [01:34] gnomefreak, different app [01:34] oh cool [01:34] when im done untaring crap i will restart session [01:35] yipe, you know ops are humans, and when they read the mess that people do in channels, they can have a hard time getting it right immediately? [01:35] gee if now i should be careful about banning the first offender first - or the worst offender first - or whatever, i might as well give it up [01:35] if they haven't read what I've said, they shouldn't take action against me [01:36] false [01:36] regarding the javauser thing [01:36] yipe you're unbanned [01:36] I think it's bad... [01:36] they don't have to have read the *entire* 10000-lines long backscroll [01:36] I see that, thanks nalioth [01:36] some people use it for a reason. [01:36] Surely javauser things should be set on a per-abuse case? [01:36] LjL, NOTHING I said was out of line [01:36] not a global ban on anyone using Java ? [01:36] I didn't even stoop to insults like my pistol-packing adversary did [01:37] I think that excluding users who use a certainclient is wrong [01:37] yipe, at the very least, i can see you talking about politics like mad. as usual, that is. [01:37] If I may interject, the intention of the mutes was to shift the conversation, via the other people who had better things to talk about, and was done on an whoever-says-something-on-that-topic-next basis. And now we're talking about office suites and movies. === PriceChild understands why the ban was made on cgi:irc clients etc. But wishes it wasn't. It was my only way of getting on irc for several months and not being allowed into #ubuntu wasn't fun [01:37] that you might not have been the only one, counts for nothing at all [01:37] gnomefreak, esepscially seeing as the bans you've set are wrong anyways [01:38] Mez: people use tor for many reasons too but most is for abuse [01:38] Mez: no they arent they work fine hes not there is he [01:38] :) [01:38] gnomefreak, you set [01:38] tonyyarusso, it's not fair to mute me and only me while someone is slandering me [01:38] * Mez removes ban on *!=?JavaUser@* [01:38] * Mez removes ban on *!JavaUser@* [01:38] he called me a crazed redneck! [01:38] you would want [01:38] PriceChild: When did that ban happen? I was on #ubuntu via cgi:irc like last week. [01:38] i removed that [01:39] +b *!?=JavaUser [01:39] +b *!?=JavaUser@* [01:39] =? wont match anything [01:39] nor will Javauser [01:39] tonyyarusso, it was around september ish [01:39] you removed it not me [01:39] yipe: You always have /msg to defend yourself. [01:39] it's n= or i= [01:39] tonyyarusso: it was removed (not manually) due to a freenode crash, and never restored [01:39] for example, I'm [01:39] LjL: aaah [01:39] tonyyarusso, before the uni network staff taught me how to tunnel via ssh ;) [01:39] Mez: yes that was my fault, i swapped ? and = while explaining him [01:39] n=Mez@ubuntu/members/mez [01:39] PriceChild: My uni won't let me use ssh either. [01:39] Mez: the java?user ban does not affect anyone with half a second to change their default user name [01:40] should have been a ? [01:40] tonyyarusso, that works for the person who said it, but it doesn't clear my name to the 129 people who saw what was said against me and never saw a rebuttal! [01:40] nalioth, except in a lot of Java clients, you cant change your name [01:40] gnomefreak, it should be "?=" instead of "=?" -- as the ? matches the initial "n" or "i" [01:40] i know i screwed up pasting [01:40] coping [01:40] yipe: The other 129 people don't care, frankly. === Mez also wonders what happened to his identd [01:40] gnomefreak: well no, it was my typo [01:41] tonyyarusso, frankly, I don't care what you think they care about, if someone is bad-mouthing me I shouldn't be the one muted [01:41] ^portlookup ident [01:41] yipe: no, you should be the one calling the ops and *not* replying in the same vein [01:41] or talking about politics for that matter [01:41] is this still going? [01:41] he was unbanned [01:41] parently [01:41] I should be able to defend myself, in public, the same forum where the insults were first uttered [01:41] go back and chat have a good time [01:42] yipe: well sorry but that's not the way it works [01:42] gnomefreak, bad opping ruins a good time [01:42] no LjL that's not how it works, that's just what happened [01:42] i would *love* to defend myself when people badmouth me, and keep it up for half an hour... and, well, i sometimes do, but i shouldn't. i should get muted if i do [01:42] yipe, please forgive us, we are only human [01:42] you don't mute the one being slandered, you mute the person saying it [01:42] yipe: fighting moot points is wrong and you commented to the other user as he did you [01:42] yipe: no, that's not how it should work. Discussion on operator actions is offtopic in other channels. [01:42] you were both wrong both muted both unmutted [01:42] yipe: I muted whoever kept talking. The end. [01:42] apokryphos, we're not talking about an op [01:43] yipe > gnomefreak, bad opping ruins a good time [01:43] yipe: that includes defending yourself [01:43] your not? [01:43] gnomefreak, in the chan I wasn't, he said that talking abotu ops in other chans was offtopic [01:44] but that's not what happened, I hadn't spoken to tonyyarusso at all until he muted me [01:45] and when I wanted to complain about his actions I brought it here [01:45] yipe: What would you like to happen? [01:46] brb [01:46] what would I like, or what do I expect to get? [01:46] yipe: What would you like to happen? [01:46] yipe, shows over. [01:46] yipe: we've admitted a mistake and you're unbanned. please drop this === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Mez] by ChanServ [01:48] Mez: you do relize you set a mute not a ban [01:48] somerville32, this is what i expected, I'm being told to be quiet, to drop it [01:48] no matter what I feel on the subject [01:48] yipe: what MORE do you want? we apologized to you [01:49] gnomefreak, yes [01:49] no nalioth, you apologized, I thank you for that, but you weren't involved [01:49] !tvout [01:49] For help with enabling the TV-Out on certain NVidia cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition [01:49] !no tvout is For help with enabling the TV-Out, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition (Nvidia cards) or http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (ATI cards, *untested*) [01:49] In #ubuntu-ops, LjL said: !no tvout is For help with enabling the TV-Out, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NvidiaTVOutNewbieEdition (Nvidia cards) or http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Tvout (ATI cards, *untested*) [01:50] it means nothing coming from you nalioth, because you didn't do anything [01:51] yipe: Is it so wrong for an op to use a mute to help steer the conversation? [01:51] somerville32, in the pure example you gave? no [01:51] tonyyarusso: what's ##fix_your_client? === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-ops === mode/#ubuntu-ops [+v Mez] by ChanServ [01:52] LjL: nalioth made it for people who were join/quit/join/quit/join/quit I believe. Not sure if it's actually being populated anymore. [01:52] gentlemen and ladies if any can we please drop this now! yipe go have fun in #ubuntu-offtopic [01:52] LjL: it's a channel with an informative topic [01:52] is it wrong to mute someone who is being slandered? That's different [01:52] nalioth: hm i joined it and there was no topic set... [01:52] yipe: From the sounds of it, it wasn't used to rebuke you [01:53] yipe, somerville32 can you take this somewhere else? yipe, you are accomplishing nothing here [01:53] LjL: sorry, i'm brain-frazzed atm. the CHANNEL NAME says it all [01:53] nalioth, I'm accomplishing nothing because the ops never admit when they're wrong [01:53] yipe: And it isn't our fault if it happened at inconvenient time for you - but we all apologize for that. [01:54] nalioth: This seems like an appropriate channel for discussion of op abuse. [01:54] somerville32, you weren't involved, I thank you for your concern, but it means nothing coming from anyone but the person who did it [01:54] aka bangingyourheadagainstthewallrepeatedlyuntilithurts [01:54] Sounds like op inconvenience rather than abuse to me. [01:54] yipe: private message works [01:55] its been played out already the mutes were lifted and the ops appoligized [01:55] gnomefreak, not the only op that matters [01:56] yipe: the only op that did something did afaik only tonyyarusso muted you and the other person [01:56] - 2nd did [01:56] And I believe I've given my reasoning (which incidentally, was accepted politely by FirstStrike) [01:56] of course he accepted it politely, he got away with slander [01:56] ok ban them both for 24 hours? will that fix it? [01:57] see its over [01:57] gnomefreak, no he didn't [01:57] noone got banned everyone is unmuted [01:57] yipe: neither did you that was my point [01:57] it was a 2 minute mute [01:57] most ar 10 minimum [01:58] are* [01:58] I'm talking about tonyyarusso, you said he apologized, he didn't, nalioth and somerville32 did, they weren't involved [01:58] yipe: what do you find problematic about tonyyarusso's reasoning? [01:59] the ban itself was not incorrect, what was wrong was leaving the other person un-muted to slander me while I could not defend myself === gnomefreak will brb smoke maybe 4 minutes can we please get back to our lives by than? i will read answer whne i return if one is left [01:59] yipe: Tonyyarusso, I'm sure, also apologizes for muting at an inconvenient time for you. However, tonyyarusso did the right thing regardless and can't be faulted. [02:00] somerville32, if he'd say that himself, it would mean a lot [02:00] again, I thank you for your concern, but it wasn't you [02:00] ok, so you're not arguing about an action taken against you, but inaction taken against another user [02:01] apokryphos, or the delay between [02:01] there is a difference [02:01] the unfortunate simultaneity of the two [02:01] gnomefreak, why bother with real life when the internet is so much more interesting [02:01] I'm also upset that firststrike wasn't banned until after me yipe, a break? you're seriously complaining about the *order* of bans? LjL, we should have at least been muted together, [02:02] that's correct [02:02] I don't really see the need for #ubuntu-offtopic to be the forum for "defending your honor" or anything like that. My concern is that the conversation shifts. What that means for the emotions of the people involved isn't high on my priorities. Now, that may seem cold, but it's part of the separation of op and user. As a user, I feel bad about it - and for many parts of that conversation, agree with you. But under my op hat, none of [02:02] ... the rest of that sentence fits in a line [02:02] this channel has been nothing more than a constant headache for me in the last week [02:03] just say what you know I need to hear and end this tonyyarusso [02:03] Mez: Thats part of the job [02:03] somerville32, you're the main cause =P [02:03] (j/k) [02:03] Mez: I^H^H^H^H^H [02:04] good idea [02:04] yipe: Ok [02:04] yipe: Now you're pushing it [02:04] a little [02:04] yipe: All right, assuming I understand this correctly, here goes: While I still stand by my mute, a) it would have been better for a slew of about 6 of them all at once, but this is what I get for giving second chances. b) I'm sorry you wanted to say something back and couldn't. He was out of line as well. [02:05] that work? [02:06] thank you tonyyarusso [02:06] :) [02:06] coulda used a nicer tone, but it'll do === yipe [n=yipe@12-218-163-227.client.mchsi.com] has left #ubuntu-ops ["I] [02:06] ... [02:06] gaaaah [02:06] ... [02:06] tonyyarusso: bow to him kiss his hand and call him your majesty next time *please* [02:07] yipe. [02:07] this has really got to stop [02:07] nalioth: hes gone === tonyyarusso sighs [02:07] gnomefreak: pointers? [02:07] i suggest everyone stand by their bans mutes if they are called for === apokryphos gives tonyyarusso a beer [02:07] yipe is the only one that ever has a problem with anything an op does [02:07] tonyyarusso, He was trying to humiliate you in front of your peers [02:08] somerville32: Well, yeah, but oh well. [02:08] somerville32: he does it to everyone === tonyyarusso isn't easily humiliated [02:08] well the peers probably don't give a darn to be honesty [02:08] that too [02:08] he is a weekly pain [02:08] On a more general note though, it seems the nicer I try to be in offtopic the worse it ends up. Thoughts on that? [02:09] Get stricter? [02:09] tonyyarusso: be a dick. (a fair dick) [02:09] lol [02:09] That's what I was thinking. I'm not a huge fan of that, but it looks like it may be necessary. === tonyyarusso sighs some more [02:10] maybe we could just /cs clear all; /cs mode #ubuntu-offtopic +i ;-) [02:10] +1 [02:10] hehe [02:10] +1 [02:10] notice most bans kicks mutes happen in -offtopic when yipe is in there [02:11] He is a troll [02:11] Please see the Troll guide for more details === tonyyarusso invites Em3rald, topyli, Lynore [02:11] btw tonyyarusso dont feel bad he tries it with EVERY OP than has every set + anything on him [02:11] [21:10] SO YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT. [02:11] [21:10] WOOF. [02:11] 0_0 [02:11] atleasat its her not her brother [02:12] tonyyarusso, rationale of the invite? [02:12]