[00:00] well, I try to follow it, but you know, I haven't signed it. [00:00] hm. If I may interject here briefly Gnea you're not the person to decide what channel procedures are. You may not think you are, but it is coming across that way [00:00] Gnea: Regardless of whether you signed it, it's part of the guidelines of the channel, so you're expected to follow it in #ubuntu channels [00:00] very well. [00:01] Flannel: you're doing my typing for me now ? :P I was about to hit enter on pretty much that exact sentence :D [00:01] Mez: I know you've had a long hard day, trying to give your fingers a rest [00:01] Gnea, you've been very helpful to many here, we're basically just asking for a change of tone in certain situations [00:01] Gnea: not just in Ubuntu Channels, but also when talking to any Ubuntu User/Member [00:02] nickrud_: that's cool. [00:02] Mez: ... [00:02] Mez: well, I'd be happy to oblige that, but see, I'm the kind of person who goes/leads by example. [00:03] so, I'm sorry if my terseness came across as a threat [00:03] Gnea: apology accepted, please bear in mind what you're writing in future. [00:03] I surely wouldn't mind if you have an example of a way that you would've handled that particular situation. [00:04] Gnea: I would have done exactly what I did. [00:04] PM the user and point them in the right way, muting them if neccessary [00:05] and that's not anymore harsh than what I did? [00:05] Gnea: I didn't add to channel noise, I didn't make a threat. [00:06] Mez: I didn't see you ask him either, you just outright PM'd out of the blue. [00:06] Gnea: the intent of a PM is to send a message directed at a single user. [00:07] Mez: so it's okay for others to send a PM without asking first? or only on the basis of someone stepping out of line, which apparently I did? [00:08] Why wouldn't it be? [00:08] are you referring to the first or second portion of the question? [00:09] The first. [00:09] then what is the point of the !pm factoid? [00:09] There is actually only one question, the second is a clarification [00:09] !pm [00:09] Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude. [00:10] Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude. [00:10] ^^^ [00:10] I can read [00:10] But can you interpret? That's what I'm questioning. [00:11] What's speaking foreign languages got to do with anything? [00:11] !pm =~ s/ / / [00:11] Nothing changed there [00:11] grr @ whitespace [00:11] you're side-stepping the issue. [00:12] !-pm [00:12] pm aliases: privatemessage, private message, msg, private - added by Amaranth on 2006-06-30 16:10:19 - last edited by Pici on 2008-11-15 19:21:54 [00:12] the only reason there's a whitespace is because when I pasted it, there was a whitespace on my end. [00:12] Gnea: Ops will send unsolicited queries because we need to get information to you. Discussions about behavior doesn't belong in the channel; and its also more respectful to those users, since theyre private issues. [00:12] oh, oops, I was thinking that was from the actual factoid. [00:12] Flannel: ah, okay, that makes sense then. [00:13] Gnea: to be quite frank, I don't agree with that last part of the factoid [00:13] Mez: I see. [00:13] !pm =~ s/Please don't PM a user in the channel without asking first, some find it rude./Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first/ [00:13] I'll remember that Mez [00:14] !pm [00:14] Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first [00:14] :) [00:14] !pm =~ s/first/first./ [00:14] I'll remember that Mez [00:14] anyone have any objections to that edit. [00:15] Gnea: some people find it rude, but it isn't rude. I think, personally, that those people just over-react. There is no reason that I can see that a PM can be considered rude (except it's contents!) [00:15] that's actually a little less blunt, I like it. [00:16] Gnea: you understand the first part of the factoid though? and why that's there? [00:16] aw. my dog just fell over coming up the stairs by the sound of it. [00:16] Mez: well, sometimes people send a PM wanting personalised attention for their problem, when in fact, they're more likely to recieve better help by asking in the channel. [00:17] d'oh [00:17] Gnea: yes, and no. It helps others to have the answers in the logs, which can be searched for, and other people in the channel can see "oh, new information, I'll remember that for when someone else asks the same question" [00:18] A PM can always be 1) ignored 2) replied to to tell them you're not interested in talking in PM/that the message should go to the channel [00:18] I shouldn't have to pastebin a private conversation just to show others the root of the problem when that entire situation can be avoided by following a few simple rules [00:19] Gnea: exactly, that's what the factoid is in place for, as I've said, you can always just say "I'll answer your question in #ubuntu" or close the window. [00:19] Gnea: everything sorted out now? [00:20] Mez: well, that's why we usually use the !pm factoid as a response to people sending unsolicited PMs... 99% of the time, people get the message and everything works out great... that other 1% tends to denote a troll/troublemaker, which is pretty rare. [00:21] Mez: but, yes, that does help sort things out, thank you. [00:21] "we"? [00:21] the people in #ubuntu channels helping people out [00:22] you know, I can't remember the last time I got an unsolicited PM :D [00:22] heh [00:22] well, one that I didnt know the person [00:22] now there's a distinction :) [00:22] or it wasn't the right place for a POM [00:23] * Mez shrugs [00:23] It's not that big a deal. [00:23] By the way, Gnea. you might want to rethink factoiding people in response to PM. I think of it as rather rude. [00:24] I don't have a problem with that. [00:24] anyway, If we're done here? [00:24] !idle [00:24] Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. [00:24] yeah, later. [00:24] :) [00:25] @mark Gnea #ubuntu-ops [00:25] The operation succeeded. [00:25] I think that was kinda productive. [00:25] Seems so [00:25] yeah. [00:26] It's rare, but, we have evidence that it does work sometimes [00:27] evidence is still in abeyance [00:27] !dict abeyance [00:27] Sorry, I don't know anything about dict abeyance [00:27] ah, ok :D [00:28] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abeyance , second definition. Proof is in the pudding, to be colloquial [00:29] nickrud_: ff dict abeyance for me :D [00:29] (oh yay for shortcuts) [00:32] nickrud_: It's actually in the putting [00:32] http://ask.yahoo.com/20020903.html [00:32] pudding actually [01:06] Flannel: Poor bugger [01:08] Eh, its a good way to learn at any rate. I just hope this is a relatively fresh install (we all reinstalled umpteen times due to all of our mistakes, its a great way to learn what not to do) [01:08] Now he knows: Don't mix repos versions [01:08] True, true [01:08] ["My hat, it has three corners, three corners has my hat, and had it not three corners, it would not be my hat"] [01:09] My friend used to sing that in German for some reason [01:09] * genii sips his coffee and contemplates Mez's snazzy Napoleon hat [01:09] * Mez was relating to nickspoon's quit message [01:10] Napoleon hats are only two cornered. [01:10] Obviously, Napoleon isn't nickspoon. [01:12] Hm [01:12] Flannel: I didn't know that about the Napoleon hat being only 2-cornered. Interesting [01:13] It was just horizontal [01:13] Or at least, the stereotypical napoleon hat anyway [01:13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Delaroche_-_Bonaparte_franchissant_les_Alpes.jpg [01:14] Of course, Tricornes were all the rage around that time in france [01:14] so, you're not far off. [01:14] Flannel: You never cease to amaze me [01:14] Flannel, more importantly, nickspoon is not napolean [01:15] sure? [01:15] I'm a bastion of random quasi-useful information! [01:15] Hehehe [01:15] Tm_T, the hat. it's all in the hat. [01:16] genii: I like the confirmation message to do all that fun stuff with dpkg: "Yes, do as I say!" [01:17] Flannel: There used to be some other dire warnings like that. "Put --yes-really-force if you mean it!" or so [01:17] yeah, I've ... done that... somewhere [01:32] Just curious mostly... why is it !factoid > name PMs but !info packagename > name doesn't? [01:32] In #ubuntu, ethan1 said: ubottu: 8.10 is the latest version of ubuntu? [01:34] genii: it's a different plugin [01:35] Mez: Ok, thanks. Just wondering, mainly [01:37] You can still !info package | person though === bluesmoke_ is now known as Amaranth [02:02] LtL != LjL... interestingly similar. [02:36] * genii sips [02:46] Flannel: I'm having problems trying to formulate how to tell the needhelp person about why it's problemmatic to download ubottu.... [02:46] Why is it problematic? [02:47] Flannel: Is there actually a downloadable version of the bot which has the factoids in it? [02:47] Yeah. Well, the factoids are separate, but yeah [02:48] He could get the supybot, but I doubt it would do him much good [02:48] I believe the factoid database is available to download... *looks* [02:48] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots [02:48] has links to the encyclopedia plugin on LP, and the sqlite db [02:48] it is, from the website [02:50] #ubuntu-bots? [02:50] ah #supybot [03:10] maybe it should mention supybot on the wikipage, and probably #ubuntu-bots too [03:11] It does [03:11] Oh, I suppose whomever edited it recently sort of moved that bit out of prominence [03:11] ubotu was operated by Dennis 'Seveas' Kaarsemaker until 2008-04-28. It was the only interactive bot allowed on the Ubuntu channels. It was running supybot 0.83.1 on Ubuntu 6.06 LTS. The source code and bugtracker can be found on Launchpad. [03:15] I wonder if he ever finished working on falcon2 [04:15] Hi operator people. I've seen discussion of jailbreaking iPhones happening in #ubuntu a couple of times in the last week. Does that fall under "questionably-legal" (and therefore is something that should be discouraged)? [04:16] * genii sips [04:17] rww: If nothing else it's offtopic [04:18] genii: It generally stems from "How do I sync my iPhone with Ubuntu?", which is on-topic, right? [04:19] rww: I haven't actually seen this discussion yet, so couldn't say how they begin. But if it transforms from that to "How do I jailbreak it" then there's the line [04:20] genii: That makes sense. Thanks :) [04:21] rww: np === bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth [05:41] rww called the ops in #ubuntu (Crazy-T has repeatedly spammed this link and ignores requires for him to stop) [05:42] He's a bit trigger happy [05:42] rww? [05:42] Flannel: Yes [05:43] That one was warranted [05:43] Flannel: But in this case the person has just been there pleading ppl to click on his url [05:44] doesn't that qualify as spamming the channel? [05:44] That does [05:45] besides, you only kicked: seems proportional [06:16] Gnite, I'm /away [06:16] night genii [07:09] Holy cow. What is wrong with the water in #u right now? [07:12] * Flannel predicts Gnea entering this channel soon. [07:13] sigh [07:13] Well, apparently he didn't take our discussion to heart, at any rate [07:23] he still posturing over people? [07:23] He was being rather rude to phil, yeah [07:24] who is about to be removed [07:24] but, thats not important [07:24] thats the second time in the past few days he's been rude to people just because they do something slightly wrong [07:25] Right [07:25] And he's historically done it often too [07:25] get him in here then [07:25] He was in here earlier today [07:26] Next time he does it when the channel isn't in chaos, I'm going to take the liberty of lessening his burden [07:26] so long as you told him he was out of line this time [07:26] he wont accept it if you mention the incident now, tomorrow [07:28] can we mae LtL change his name. i keep reading LjL [07:28] :P [07:28] He's even registered with it [07:28] I didn't investigate when he registered though yet [07:30] 20 minutes [07:30] bring him in here [07:30] I was going to do it in a query, but here's just as good [07:30] there's too much distraction in #ubuntu for him to actually read and comprehend what we're asking [07:32] Mmm, try inviting him? [07:32] not being cooperative i take it? [07:32] Not responding at all [07:32] Maybe he doesn't know how to read queries [07:32] direct him to his PM from #ubuntu [07:33] Luigi, how can we help? [07:33] Hey, just checking this channel's topic. [07:33] Bye. [07:33] typing /topic #channel works too [07:33] or... used to? [07:34] Still works here [07:34] Hes speaking french to me now [07:34] yeah, it put it in the dialog of the channel i tested.. becuae i'm in it [07:34] confuzzled me a sec [07:35] Mmmm, something about a joke. [07:35] banforward and kick time :P [07:35] heh [07:36] Why do people have to be so difficult [07:36] becuase people are idiots [07:38] Mmm, no auto-rejoin [07:38] autorejoin on kick not on? [07:38] I even went out of my way to kick and not remove. How rude. [07:38] he'll be back [07:38] haha [07:47] Hi phil [07:47] va encore me faire jetter ? [07:48] english please [07:48] hi flammel [07:48] I do my best [07:48] stupid to ban my IP [07:49] phil: We didn't ban your IP, you've been forwarded here so we can talk with you [07:49] so that we won't have to ban you [07:49] I don t understand all [07:49] since you wouldnt respond at all to our private messages [07:49] I just could n join any more [07:50] that can change, but you have to talk to us first [07:50] sorry , i didn t the private [07:50] dont worry about them now, you're here now [07:50] do you know why you were in trouble in #ubuntu? [07:50] yes [07:51] I speak too much [07:51] phil: Not too much, but you are constantly off topic [07:51] phil, you talk about the wrong things. [07:51] I have been using Linux for 10 years [07:51] explain [07:52] phil: #ubuntu is a support channel, not a chat channel [07:52] so you should know better than to talk about non-ubuntu stuff in an ubuntu channel [07:52] and you know i m french [07:52] well guy , i wanted t support [07:52] i dont give a crap how long you've used linux, or where you are. you need to play by the rules. [07:52] crap ? [07:53] poop [07:53] phil: It doesn't matter who you are, or how long you have used linux. You need to follow the channel rules [07:53] don t matter [07:53] what doesnt matter? [07:53] you guy have to know something [07:54] you re desk support [07:54] you have the right to ban guy [07:54] excuse my english [07:55] what you ve done is not correct [07:55] phil: Yes, we know that. And we don't like banning people, but we have to keep #ubuntu usable. [07:55] I have to work to help englisg / US . You broke this [07:55] you were making #ubuntu not usable. you were disrupting. [07:55] phil: You were being disruptive and you weren't following the rules [07:56] you will probably have better luck understanding people in #ubuntu-fr [07:56] if I was a kid I would say LOL [07:56] phil: #ubuntu is not a place for you to work on your english [07:56] wrong [07:56] it s the place [07:57] no, it's not. #defocus is more the place. NOT a support channel. [07:57] can you speajk french as well as I speak english ? :P [07:57] what s ubuntu ? :P [07:57] try and we will both have fun ... [07:58] one thing I can t stand , is beeind banned [07:58] if i were to go into a french and start giving instructions that are not comprehendable, i would be banned too [07:58] you re not at your place , even if you are tech able [07:58] phil: Your own actions caused you to be banned. [07:59] how long have you been using Lnux ? [07:59] 11 years [07:59] I m 13 [07:59] you've been using linux since you were 3? [08:00] FreBSD ? [08:00] is not linux. [08:00] no matte [08:00] matter [08:00] yes, it does. [08:00] you shouldn t have to ban ppl like this [08:00] Your right, we shouldn't. [08:00] it s stupid [08:01] People should just follow the rules [08:01] and everyone would be happy [08:01] phil, you have not earned the privilege to use #ubuntu, you need to find somewhere else. [08:01] our re in US ? [08:01] no. [08:01] phil: location is irrelevant [08:02] crazy [08:02] byebye phil. please find a new channel. [08:03] seems i m strange :P [08:06] no. [08:06] ok, i ll shut up [08:07] thats not good enough anymore. [08:08] want a good thing with unionfs on a CF ro ? [08:09] takes 15 min and it works , great for embed [08:09] this isnt a support channel [08:09] Nor is it a trivia channel [08:09] you could not behave in the support channel. you need to find somewhere else to practice english [08:10] c est pas du support , c est de l astuce , et je vais encore me faire ban :P [08:10] ##english or ##linux phil [08:10] ubuntu-fr you said ? :P [08:11] phil: leave on your own, or find yourself banned [08:11] phil, you need to follow their rules too [08:11] bazhang, the link >I gave was english . It s not my pb if none of you spak foreign langauges [08:12] phil, you live in canada; you can speak english fine. please leave now. [08:12] tritium, elkbuntu I gave a US link , what else ? [08:12] phil, you've misbehaved too much. we dont want you anymore. [08:12] bazhang, knows the whois :P [08:13] phil, we can all see your hostmask [08:13] ban again ? [08:13] You're rapidly approaching that, yes. [08:13] I don t hide [08:13] is that a request to be banned? [08:13] No realy in fact [08:13] My first goal was to hel Ubuntu users [08:14] right, so tell me what ubuntu is. [08:14] but i ve been banned quite soon [08:14] ubuntu is a Debian for Dummys [08:14] fail. [08:15] with all the experimentall thinks that Mandrake did :P [08:15] phil, you are a troll. we do not like trolls. [08:15] oh . I missed [08:15] I m not a trool [08:15] then stop acting like one. [08:16] Tonight I mn your ... bouc emissaire3 [08:16] the ugly thing you have to split on [08:16] donno [08:17] cs k phil [08:18] Never a dull moment. [08:18] Oh, I was beginning to yawn there [08:18] it'll take him a good five minutes to figure that it's not here when he rejoins, i bet [08:19] He's still in there now... [08:23] talking? [08:23] No idea. [08:26] I better get to sleep. Good night. [08:36] you all get the good ones, I just see spammers :( [08:37] He made me drop all of my eggs [08:37] Going to take me at least 20 minutes to get back into the swing of things [08:37] Mmm, ok, so maybe 10 [08:38] I'm off to bed, get my 6. You get your 4 soon :) [08:38] Mhmmm [09:07] oh look, it's emo hour [09:08] heh [09:09] We had one earlier today too [09:11] it happens every time pppoe_dude returns [09:13] Did he start talking about associations with the XXs? [09:13] no... hated emotions or something [09:14] what's the emotion you hate the most? [09:14] Interesting. [09:14] So, would "hate" be oxymoronic? or self-fufilling? [09:17] not really sure [09:17] One of life's great mysteries. [09:39] genii: re: the "bit trigger happy" comment earlier: I was hesitant to issue !ops in that case, since it wasn't an "emergency", but it was the /third/ time the guy had spammed that link, and I hadn't seen a channel operator say anything about it at all. However, your criticism was valid, and I'll be a little more hesitant in the future :) [09:47] We've got people subscribing to the logs apparently [09:47] Not that that's a new thing. [09:48] sad [10:53] In ubottu, rww said: !no, firewall is Ubuntu has firewall capabilities built-in. The firewall can be managed from the command-line using iptables or (in Hardy or later) ufw. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IptablesHowTo (iptables) and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFirewall (ufw). GUI firewalls include Firestarter (GNOME), Guarddog (KDE), and gufw (GNOME; in Hardy-backports, Intrepid or later). [11:05] @mark [11:05] (mark [] []) -- Creates an entry in the Bantracker as if was kicked from with the comment , if is given it will be uses as the comment on the Bantracker, is only needed when send in /msg [11:05] @mark #ubuntu bullgard4 persistant offtopic comments about linux, been warned MANY times been removed a few times, no on a final warning [11:05] The operation succeeded. [11:36] Flannel, yeah, it's slightly creepy that they have that much free time. [11:36] * ikonia is bored of sken [11:37] does anyone have a better idea of how better to deal with this pain [11:43] ikonia, where? [11:44] just removed him again [11:44] about 20 bans on him, [11:44] from? [11:44] constantly ban dodging, rude/offensive etc etc [11:44] athens dsl [11:44] * elkbuntu tries comparing timestamps instead [11:45] oooh sorry [11:45] ubuntu [11:45] thought you meant where as in his source [11:45] he was under the nick vari_karin this time [11:45] i was looking for the nick 'sken' [11:45] hence i was totally lost [11:46] sken is the orignial nick, but he uses tons of nicks [11:46] ah [11:46] he hits up #K too, yes? [11:47] Ive not seen him in there to be honest, apart from once [12:02] bah I'm out, not good in #ubuntu today [12:07] * jussi01 waves! [12:09] I'm banned from #ubuntu-offtopic for no reason. Please help :). [12:11] it's never for 'no reason'. there's always a reason. [12:11] elkbuntu: I'd like to know the reason and be unbanned [12:12] I have a programming question to ask ;) [12:12] i am checking the reason in the logs, and the latter will depend on the results of the former [12:12] well, #ubuntu is not a place to ask programming questions. what language [12:13] elkbuntu: #ubuntu-offtopic and it's a GTK+ question [12:13] theunixgeek, are you aware of Gimpnet? [12:14] elkbuntu: irc.gnome.org is what I'm on as well. Is that what you meaN? [12:14] *mean [12:14] i see you are, yes. [12:15] but sometimes I still like to go into #ubuntu-offtopic to hang around :) [12:16] Is there a way to see the ban list? [12:16] theunixgeek, you persisted to ask for veterinarian advice because your dog used a tree instead of a kitty litter box. [12:17] elkbuntu: except that wasn't me. That was a friend that came over and I let him use IRC to explore around, etc [12:17] this is the second time he does the same story, actually [12:18] then you didn't learn from the first time, and hence I will not be unbanning you. [12:18] elkbuntu: it was a year ago and he wasn't banned [12:19] so how do you know what he did? [12:19] local IRC logs [12:19]