=== rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [07:21] !log [07:21] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [08:53] Hey, I just compiled indicator-messages to work with the new seperated libindicator/libindicate. Do I need to do some action for pidging to work with that? (restarting/rebuilding ...) [09:13] Okay, found the reason: undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon [09:13] in pidgin-libnotify [09:51] mpt: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareStore/Icons progress icon , you need to subscribe to the page ;) [09:53] SiDi: did you manage to build xfce4-indicator-plugin? [09:54] Mark__T, hi [09:54] not really :D [09:54] Well, i did, the applet works [09:54] but it doesnt display messages [09:54] because of no indicator-messages. And this one depends on indicator-applet so i'm back at the start point [09:57] SiDi: I have the plugin running, and the 'No indicators' messages is gone because I rebuilt indicator-messages, but pidgin refuses to load pidgin-libnotify plugin [09:57] lawl [09:58] I think I should try {em,tele}pathy [09:58] i think there are unit tests in one of the indicator packages [09:58] SiDi: I get undefined symbol: indicate_indicator_set_property_icon from pidgin-libnotify [10:00] I guess I need to talk to kenvandine or ted [10:12] yeah :/ [10:12] maybe a side effect of the split [12:03] * MacSlow -> lunch === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === jblount_ is now known as jblount [14:27] SiDi, notify-osd in the middle of the desktop now? [14:28] dashua, yeh, im not responsible for that :P [14:28] Ah alright ;) [14:28] dashua, that's a bit shocking but it might be better than in a corner [14:28] i dont have an opinion yet :P [14:28] Yeah, I'm indifferent as well. [14:31] dashua: which type bubble does that? for me all seem on top right [14:31] All notifications now it seems [14:33] Oh nice. Camera shutter sound in sound-theme-freedesktop 0.4 on screenshot [14:33] Cool [14:34] http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/23031/screenshot_A6RaYJ.png [14:38] i think i need to *not* update ;p [15:50] dashua, i know someone who has a notify-osd branch in which you can change the color of the bubble :P [15:50] To make even sexier screenshots [15:50] Oh, link me please :) [15:53] (lp:~sidi/notify-osd/xfconf-experimental :P) [15:53] (but its based on 0.9.16, not 18 [15:54] Ok thx [15:57] http://paste.ubuntu.com/260378/ [15:58] I need any flags? [15:58] is that really going to be the new default behavior? [15:58] DanRabbit1: yes! [15:58] ah... [15:58] I hope there's a preference to put it back. [15:58] i'm updating to join in on the confusion ;0 [15:59] I mean, yea it's more noticeable [15:59] but, it's also going to be invasive [15:59] DanRabbit1: i dont think we will get a pref [15:59] :( [15:59] I guess that's what god created hackers for... [15:59] dashua, Oo [16:00] dashua, you dont only have this ? give me the whole output please :) [16:00] DanRabbit1: notify-osd has too many rules , prefs for that would break a lot of stuff [16:00] DanRabbit1, actually on a pure technical plan, you're less likely to be disturbed by it if its on the middle than if its on the top [16:00] except during presentations [16:00] and videos [16:01] in which case you're likely to have disabled them [16:01] yeh, videos too [16:01] SiDi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/260379/ [16:01] i don't even know how to disable [16:01] dashua, EPIC [16:01] i forgot to push a file :D :D [16:01] Ah [16:02] pushed [16:02] MacSlow, the last diff i gave you is probably wrong then :D [16:02] DanRabbit1: actually for me this works out great , i use a single right vertical panel , and previously for notification daemon i had the area in the exact same spot... so yah \o/ [16:02] ;p [16:03] that's why I suggest a pref [16:03] SiDi, sorry... very busy atm and not near the gconf/xconf stuff atm [16:04] DanRabbit1: if keep saying perfs MacSlow will strangle you ;) [16:04] DanRabbit1: bring it up in ayatana mailing list [16:04] MacSlow, no problem :P better that way since i forgot a file in the tree [16:04] DanRabbit1, listen to mac_v :) [16:04] if i add 20 lines of code it'll be a 3000 lines patch :d [16:05] DanRabbit1, the code for positioning has probably changed A LOT [16:05] which means setting up a pref would be long [16:05] and require some code split, probably [16:05] I'm just saying [16:05] for me [16:06] I'm going to block the update [16:06] We need one of these things: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RU2A985UKbY/SOrPTW4FZ4I/AAAAAAAABnw/b4aspUNuhfk/s400/Picture+6.png [16:06] the little desktop, I mean [16:09] DanRabbit1, if there are MANY complaints about it post release, feel free to bug me ~1 or 2 months before 10.04 feature freeze ;P [16:10] haha... why wait for tomorrow? [16:10] because i have tons of bugs to fix in other apps :P [16:10] SiDi: have you blogged about the change? [16:10] about which ? i'm not a notify-osd dev, i just like messing with it :P [16:11] ah, well whoever decided it would look better in the middle of the screen should blog about why it's better [16:11] because it doesnt cover your apps toolbar [16:12] for instance DanRabbit1, with the top right positioning, firefox's search entry was covered [16:12] ah, I think a better fix would have been a close button. [16:12] which was preventing from seeing what you write [16:12] SiDi: you can click through. [16:12] close button == need to move the mouse too, and to _accurately_ click on a part of the bubble [16:13] yeh but usually you use keyboard shortcuts [16:13] so the entry is focused but covered by a bubble [16:13] it could just show on mouseover [16:13] the close button I mean [16:13] if it covers content in the middle you can scroll up/down in almost all apps to move the content you wanna read [16:13] with both mouse & keyboard [16:13] but the close button requires to hover the bubble, aim a corner, and click [16:14] while with n-o we can prevent a bubble from disturbing just by hovering it [16:14] yea, I dunno [16:14] I just disgree with the whole behavior of notify-osd sometimes [16:14] It's confusing [16:14] and weird. [16:14] Yes, it's weird [16:15] and, I'm not a total computer noob [16:15] my mom would explode. [16:15] but i think that once the old habits are gone, n-o will be more agreable than the previous ones [16:15] DanRabbit1, iits because you're not a 'noob' :) you got habits [16:15] i love being able to royally ignore notifications when i focus on something else [16:15] and i love being notified about whats going on in my computer [16:16] and n-o allows me both much more easily than notification-daemon with its down timeouts and actions [16:16] Yea, notify OSD definitely needs to get actions [16:16] that was convenient [16:17] NO [16:17] definately, no :P [16:17] i was so sick of things opening without my consent when i wasnt aiming the close button correctly [16:17] notifications are for notifying [16:17] adjust your mouse :p [16:17] if they want actions, there's the messaging applet [16:17] which is bad juju [16:17] SiDi: That's one view. It doesn't seem widely shared so far. [16:18] ScottK, people dont like things that respect semantics :D [16:18] messaging applet is all about bad :( [16:18] we need less clutter, not more. [16:20] SiDi: Personally I'm not a fan of "Ha! I'm going to tell you about something, but not actually let you deal with it", but I understand this isn't going to change. [16:25] ScottK: I agree fully [16:26] That was the killer feature that got me to switch to Banshee [16:26] DanRabbit1: It's also a settled issue for notify-osd and Gnome in Ubuntu. [16:26] There's no point in rediscussing it. [16:26] I know :( [16:42] DanRabbit1: FWIW , it protested against it when proposed in the ayatana mailing list :) [16:43] DanRabbit1: this was proposed a long time back , you can check out the discussion in archives [16:44] s/it/I [17:07] DBO lamalex DanRabbit1: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/08/26/losing-my-religion/ [17:13] He has some valid point, but is fundamentally wrong. Design is no different than code in these regards. [17:32] morning djsiegel__ [17:33] is otto around? :) [17:35] DBO: he's coming, his nick is chaotic === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch [17:35] awesome [17:35] DBO: hey [17:36] hey chaotic :) [17:36] DBO: I've just realised I never got back to you on that last email - really sorry about that [17:36] its okay [17:36] DBO: been super busy [17:36] how you doing? [17:36] that project has been stalled by my being super busy also [17:37] I have been alright, enjoying my new job, loving working with canonical :) [17:37] DBO: cool [17:37] so I have a challenge for you [17:37] DBO: so what can I help with? [17:37] DBO: uh huh [17:37] http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/269345/wpa_active_window.png [17:38] that is the new look of the icons of the window picker applet [17:38] they are bigger in general [17:38] which means they are no longer actually gtk buttons [17:38] but I need a method of identifying the active window from the not active ones [17:39] you can kinda see what I came up with, but I am not really happy with it [17:39] are you familiar with the window picker applet from UNR? === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [17:39] DBO: in that png it's the one in the middle right? [17:39] yes [17:40] DBO: not really familiar [17:40] ok, well the philosophy is really simple, there is an icon for every window. These icons are height of the panel (24px) and are packed next to each other. There is a 3px border on each side we can play with also. [17:41] DBO: deselected could go to greyscale? [17:41] DBO: they look a little blurry - are they scaled? [17:41] unfortunately yes [17:41] DBO: ah [17:41] there is no good way to get quality icons 100% of the time :( [17:42] I am working on that problem in another one of my projects, but it isn't ready yet [17:42] DBO: know what you mean [17:43] can you use a highlight colour behind? [17:43] sure [17:44] just keep in mind sometimes that icon can be pretty much wholly consuming of the 24x24 area leaving only the 3px borders... [17:44] so I am also dimming the opacity of the other icons, but its hard to notice that... [17:44] no I see that [17:45] can deselected become greyscale? [17:45] I could do that [17:46] Im pretty sure I can make anything you can dream up happen :) [17:46] thats why its a challenge, you dream up the awesome, I make it happen [17:46] DBO: hahaha [17:47] DBO: can you send me some full screenshots so I can see it in context? [17:48] yes [17:48] let me put on a UNR theme also [17:53] http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/269345/UNR-wpa-screen.png [17:54] chaotic, ^^ [17:54] DBO: looking [17:54] DBO: hmmm, does get lost a bit [17:55] yeah === rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3 [17:55] DBO: that mail icon stands out a lot - how come that's highlighted so much [17:56] on the right? [17:56] no idea, ignore that... [17:56] thats not really part of this issue :) [17:56] DBO: no, I know but they background colour makes a big difference there [17:57] it does make a difference, we could do something like that [17:57] however I really was hoping to be more subtle :P [17:58] excuse me for a moment, I need to restart my x server [17:58] maximus always screws up my windows... [18:00] back [18:04] DBO: I'll have a think, have to leave shortly I'm afraid [18:04] chaotic, thats all I ask :) [18:07] chaotic, one more thing, if you think it should be animated or something like that, I can do that too. === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno [19:20] mrooney|w: any idea which project this affects? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/344228 [19:20] Launchpad bug 344228 in hundredpapercuts "Deleting an image that's used as a desktop wallpaper removed it as a wallpaper without notice" [Undecided,Confirmed] [19:20] gnome-settings-manager or something? [19:20] well, I guess it would depend on how you want to fix it [19:21] nautilus handles deleting it I believe, so you might want a warning there [19:21] gnome-control-center ? [19:21] nah [19:21] the user should be able to download a photo to their desktop [19:21] set it as the background [19:21] and delete the photo [19:21] deleting a file should not change you desktop [19:21] users don't think how the software works === DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow === rickspencer3 is now known as rickspencer3-afk [20:28] SiDi: ping [20:28] pong [20:28] average lag : 6000ms [20:28] packet loss : 0% [20:28] do yo still have the pidgin error I pasted here in your history? [20:29] hm, no ? :P [20:29] well, its somewhere in my history... but i dont even know in which browser [20:30] just the missing symbol thing I pasted in this channel [20:30] do you want me to search for it ? [20:30] (and, which paste site was it ?) [20:31] it was a oneliner in here, me explaining why pidgin-libnotify doesn't work [20:33] oh [20:35] Mark__T, i cant find it in my history [20:36] np, tomorrow I need to send it to me from the box I try to run latest indicator foo [20:37] so that I have that information at hand when kenvandine or tedg wake up [20:39] :) [20:59] djsiegel_: that would definitely be nautilus [20:59] lamalex: I don't know... [20:59] seems like it'd be an easy fix too, just copy the photo to a private nautilus directory ~/.local/share/nautilus/ or something, and use that [21:02] right, but the piece of software that would make the copy [21:02] unfortunately, there needs to be a background API [21:02] right now, I think individual apps just set the gconf key [21:03] but something watches that key for changes [21:03] does nautilus draw the desktop wallpaper? [21:03] nautilus draws it yes [21:03] well it would just always be $XDG_DATA_HOME/nautilus/wallpaper [21:03] what would be *the* wallpaper file [21:04] s/what/that [21:04] when you set new wallpaper it would get copied there [21:04] unrelated to the old file [21:06] * lamalex thinks that ^ is a decent solution [21:07] well, there's a lot of push behind being able to edit the current image [21:07] see my user story on the bug [21:09] I don't think that's right, if you edit the image you should have to reset it, or expect that if you delete it, it goes away [21:11] hmm [21:11] I think editing an image is a more advanced action than deleting or moving a file [21:11] novice users will delete and move files often [21:12] god these fscking notifications are driving me nuts [21:12] but if you open an image and edit it [21:12] haha [21:12] I am updating now [21:19] lamalex: me too! seems totally weird when a mail notification pops up in the center! [21:20] mac_v: you should 2nd my post to the ayatana list [21:20] every time one pops up ive got like a 3 second "wtf is this?" period [21:25] lamalex: FWIW , i did protest the minute it was proposed > https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00106.html [21:25] mac_v: yah, i think i remember [21:26] lamalex: but when its not something they are going to listen to ... its like why bother! uninstall and use mumbles ;) [21:26] djsiegel_: I agree with that article quite a bit. Sometimes you need a little dictatorship. The democracy should be in choosing who's in charge. [21:27] DanRabbit1: when you install mumbles , it will block a lot ot notify-osd bubbles :) [21:27] mumbles? [21:28] yeah , mumbles , it uses old notification daemon [21:29] so we can use actions and that? [21:29] I'll check it out. [21:29] I have to go make lunch right now though :D [22:03] so i take it the middle of the right side of the screen for the notification bubble is intentional, i dont need to file a bug? [22:03] yea, it's intentional :/ [22:04] how [insert_word_I_havent_thought_of_yet] [22:04] yea, that was my reaction too [22:04] seems to be the concensus [22:05] I'm glad you agree as well, lamalex [22:05] there's a thread going on the list [22:05] DanRabbit1: how's that tictactoe icon coming [22:05] :) [22:07] give me one second [22:07] thoughts? http://elementary-project.com/abuse/tictactoe.svg [22:08] DanRabbit1, write a hacker symbol with o's ? :D [22:09] the triple Os should have a line through them, that's a winning move! [22:09] I was thinking along those lines, but it just didn't look good. [22:09] SiDi: I was thinking the same thing! [22:09] DanRabbit1: you should move the top X to the top left and block the O [22:09] the hacker logo but in a game of O and X [22:09] and leave it asymatric [22:09] asymmetric [22:10] okay [22:12] let me check my french fries real fast :D [22:14] yum [22:17] they're ready [22:17] I'll brb === rickspencer3-afk is now known as rickspencer3 [22:50] djsiegel1: do you think the papercutters team could be unsubscibed from all papercut bugs, and let that up to individual members if they want to? [22:50] it is too much volume for me and is making it hard for me to process the actual bugs I am subscribed to