Motley:  No need to spend your effort looking for an argument. " If we consider "charity" as tax-deductible.....indeed, those church tithes count."  That is precisely what I said.  I then said "However, if we consider "charity" as the funds actually reaching those in need, those tithes are terribly inefficient................Gary Crum"  The first sentence addresses the "legal" IRS status of a "charitable contribution."  The second addresses my opinion regarding contributions actually reaching the needy.  

"No matter what Gary Crum thinks."  actually Gary Crum (pardon the third person) thinks conservatives contribute more to "charity" than liberals because their church tithing is incorporated into those numbers.  I also think in most cases only a very, very small percentage of that tithing ever reaches any "needy" populations.  For example, compare a church tithe with a contribution to Food for Lane County or St. Vinnies, and I think you will understand my point. ...regards, Gary Crum