Yes, I am vey familiar with Michael's work as stated earlier. lol. At least read my posts. It is a case of "he said (and some agents) vs they said."  That is why outside a system of law it is a dead issue. Like so many issues in the world, one can portray it as a "moral issue" (like the Rwanda genocide, torture, bombings in Syria, etc.) but not really, not when there is such a cloud of non-jurisprudence, as it were, surrounding it.