Princess Gloria of Thurn and Taxis also said in an interview with Bavarian Radio that "people love to let loose on the Church, and it is an easy target."


sentence: she also pointed out that in her youth "beatings were a totally normal educational tool for dealing with cheeky children, of which I was one."

data: children child NOUN bn:00018345n 0 0


sentence: she thought it unfair to apply current standards to previous decades, because the world has changed.

data: decades decade NOUN bn:00025646n 0 0


sentence: in connection with the reports on the cases of abuse, Pope brother Georg Ratzinger cropped up a lot.

data: connection connection NOUN bn:00021902n 0 0


sentence: absolutely unfair, says author and historian Michael Hesemann, who together with Ratzinger compiled the commemorative volume "My Brother, the Pope" (translated into 12 languages).

data: author author NOUN bn:00007287n 0 0

data: historian historian NOUN bn:00044258n 0 0

data: languages language NOUN bn:00049910n 0 0


sentence: "I have to come to the defence of Georg Ratzinger," says Hesemann, for in his assessment, the result of the final report "has nothing to do with him."

data: result result NOUN bn:00034520n 0 0


sentence: what exactly is in the 440-page report that lawyer Ulrich Weber, commissioned by the Diocese of Regensburg, has produced?

data: report report NOUN bn:00067181n 0 0

data: lawyer lawyer NOUN bn:00007051n 0 0


sentence: in total, 547 members of the Regensburger Domspatzen were "highly likely" the victims of assaults between 1945 and the early 1990s, and 67 Domspatzen were sexually abused.

data: victims victim NOUN bn:00079940n 0 0


sentence: the final report said of Georg Ratzinger, who was working in Regensburg from 1964 to 1994, that "in summary, it can be determined that forms of corporal and physical violence were used by the cathedral's Master of Music R. in many cases."

data: violence violence NOUN bn:00035772n 0 0


sentence: when he was highly emotional, in particular, the punishment for the students could be a lot more severe.

data: students student NOUN bn:00029806n 0 0


sentence: despite this, it is apparent that, in contrast to numerous others of the accused, many victims treasured the general humaneness of R. and therefore, in numerous cases, even associate him with positive memories, despite the violence. "

data: contrast contrast NOUN bn:00022261n 0 0


sentence: Hesemann explains in the interview why, in his opinion, the final report on the abuse scandal at the Regensburger Domspatzen exonerates Georg Ratzinger.

data: opinion opinion NOUN bn:00059168n 0 0


sentence: for Mr Hesemann, the 440-page report on the "incidents of the use of violence against wards at the Regensburger Domspatzen" paints a contradictory picture of the cathedral's Master of Music, Georg Ratzinger.

data: page page NOUN bn:00060158n 0 0

data: incidents incident NOUN bn:00046282n 0 0


sentence: on the one hand, many students stress his "humaneness."


on the other hand, he also comes across as a choleric type and perfectionist, who would often turn to violence if one of the Domspatzen didn't give a top musical performance.


how do you judge this final report as his biography?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: if one makes the effort and reads the entire 440-page-long report from start to finish, one actually has to ask what the name of Georg Ratzinger is doing in there at all.

data: name name NOUN bn:00056758n 0 0


sentence: eight pages are devoted to him, all in one go, and he is clearly exculpated from every suspicion of complicity or connivance in the terrible cases of sexual abuse.

data: pages page NOUN bn:00060158n 0 0

data: suspicion suspicion NOUN bn:00075459n 0 0


the extreme acts of violence at the pre-school also occurred outside his sphere of activity.


at best, one can accuse him of having found out too late or not having taken the first indications seriously enough.


sentence: the Domspatzen secondary school, where he was active, was perceived by practically all of those asked as - to quote - "salvation," "heaven" and a "better world."

data: salvation salvation NOUN bn:00066712n 0 0

data: heaven heaven NOUN bn:00029734n 0 0


sentence: so, the vast majority of his students gave Georg Ratzinger a quite glowing testimonial, describing him as "warm-hearted," "beloved," "sincere," "competent" and "understanding," as an extremely good-natured teacher who regularly provide the boys with cakes, biscuits and sweets and was "always mobbed by clusters of children."

data: teacher teacher NOUN bn:00046958n 0 0

data: children child NOUN bn:00018345n 0 0


sentence: only a minority complained about his perfectionism and his high emotionality, which from time to time also led to outbursts of anger.

data: perfectionism perfectionism NOUN bn:00061549n 0 0


sentence: the fact that during the course of this he not only banged chairs and threw his bunch of keys to the floor, but even handed out slaps around the face and pulled on the hair or ears of all-too-impudent boys is something that he himself already admitted years ago, that he deeply regrets and apologises for.

data: hair hair NOUN bn:00042526n 0 0

data: years year NOUN bn:00078738n 0 0


sentence: in his defence, however, it must also be said that such methods of education in that questionable period between the 1960s and 1970s were wide-spread amongst parents as well as teachers.

data: parents parent NOUN bn:00060643n 0 0

data: teachers teacher NOUN bn:00046958n 0 0


sentence: do you remember such castigation methods?

data: methods method NOUN bn:00054625n 0 0


I'm thinking of those of us who were born before 1968, of course.


sentence: I too experienced that, in a secular school, too, a state Gymnasium.

data: school school NOUN bn:00069619n 0 0


sentence: compared to what this report is actually about, namely, appalling sexual abuse and acts of extreme violence at preschool, these are of course mere trifles.

data: report report NOUN bn:00067181n 0 0

data: preschool preschool NOUN bn:00049129n 0 0


sentence: so one cannot help but ask whether the fact that lots of media are bearing down on him in particular does not have more to do with his fame and his role as the brother of Benedikt XVI.

data: role role NOUN bn:00036823n 0 0


indeed, lots of people are still slaving away assiduously on the Bavarian Pope who have never understood him.


sentence: but the truth is: the report exonerates Georg Ratzinger in every way!


sentence: in the media, there was a lot reported on the subject of abuse at the Regensburger Domspatzen in connection with the report.

data: subject subject NOUN bn:00074900n 0 0

data: connection connection NOUN bn:00021902n 0 0


is Georg Ratzinger also being accused in the final report of some kind of involvement or complicity in respect of sexual abuse?


Michael Hesemann: quite clearly not.


sentence: not a single one of the 67 victims of sexual assaults claims to have confided in the cathedral's Master of Music.

data: victims victim NOUN bn:00079940n 0 0


sentence: not once were the parents brought in the loop.


sentence: "I never dared talk about it with my father or my mother," said one of those affected, as a representative for the others, "It was always very embarrassing for me."

data: father father NOUN bn:00009616n 0 0

data: mother mother NOUN bn:00034027n 0 0


sentence: but the real problem when it comes to throwing light on sexual abuse was and is that the majority of victims stay silent out of shame.

data: problem problem NOUN bn:00048242n 0 0


sentence: if they don't even confide in parents and siblings, then they for sure are not going to to a choir leader, who after all had been a professional colleague, as it were, of the perpetrators.

data: siblings sibling NOUN bn:00071400n 0 0


sentence: how do the Domspatzen schoolboys judge Ratzinger's role in respect of the cases of abuse?

data: role role NOUN bn:00036822n 0 0


sentence: Michael Hesemann: one pupil asked put it this way: "regarding sexual abuse... I see... no case where he of all people (Georg Ratzinger) had had early enough knowledge and could have stopped the perpetrators in question.

data: pupil pupil NOUN bn:00029806n 0 0

data: knowledge knowledge NOUN bn:00020452n 0 0


sentence: I also think... it is quite absurd to assume that... boys opened up more emphatically or clearly or even sooner to him, of all people, than to their parents, the heads of their boarding houses, mentors etc.

data: parents parent NOUN bn:00060643n 0 0


sentence: that one would speak with him about sex... - unthinkable. "

data: sex sex NOUN bn:00070772n 0 0


sentence: so, the report comes to the quite clear conclusion: "that affected pupils and / or those around them confided in him beforehand could not be confirmed within the scope of the investigation."

data: pupils pupil NOUN bn:00029806n 0 0


as far as sexual abuse is concerned, Georg Ratzinger has therefore been absolved of any complicity.


therefore, he can also not be accused of not having stopped it or reported it.


sentence: there is therefore also no reason to bring his good name into association with this despicable crime, as unfortunately happened in some cases.

data: reason reason NOUN bn:00041881n 0 0

data: name name NOUN bn:00056758n 0 0

data: crime crime NOUN bn:00023807n 0 0


in the media, one read a lot about "extreme acts of violence" at the Regensburger Domspatzen.


the former cathedral Master of Music, Georg Ratzinger, is accused in the report of "turning a blind eye."


does he have to live with this accusation then?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: that is indeed the big problem, that in the coverage, everything was mixed up and confounded into a huge melange of sexual abuse and acts of extreme violence and somewhere, in the middle of that, was Georg Ratzinger.


sentence: but precisely that, in turn, is an abuse of the report.

data: report report NOUN bn:00067181n 0 0


sentence: that is to say, there is a clean separation there: between the preschool and the secondary school of the Domspatzen, between sexual abuse and acts of violence as well as, shall we say, other accusations.

data: preschool preschool NOUN bn:00064189n 0 0


sentence: what is more, the report handles cases from the period since 1945, that is, from four decades, as well, when Georg Ratzinger was not choir leader of the Domspatzen.

data: decades decade NOUN bn:00025646n 0 0


sentence: the whole hideous educational theory of spanking, the cases where boys were downright bullied and maltreated by sadistic teachers, and from which they suffered terribly, all of these took place in the preschool in Etterzhausen and Pielenhofen, where really scandalous conditions must have prevailed.

data: boys boy NOUN bn:00012569n 0 0

data: teachers teacher NOUN bn:00046958n 0 0

data: preschool preschool NOUN bn:00049129n 0 0


sentence: yet the cathedral's Master of Music Georg Ratzinger had nothing to do with these, for he first set eyes on the boys when they were already at the Domspatzen secondary school.


sentence: there, as the vast majority of witnesses stress, the topic of the "preschool" was taboo.

data: topic topic NOUN bn:00074900n 0 0


one was only happy to have got away from it and enjoyed the much better treatment and the conditions that were even "paradisiacal" for many.


what was different at the Domspatzen secondary school then?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: discipline still ruled there, sure, but there was no sadistic violence.

data: violence violence NOUN bn:00035772n 0 0


sentence: and that applies to Georg Ratzinger likewise, in relation to whom the report concludes that "many victims treasured the general humaneness of R. and therefore, in numerous cases, even associate him with positive memories, despite the violence."

data: victims victim NOUN bn:00079940n 0 0


so, at best, there remains the accusation of having turned a blind eye.


sentence: yet despite all the efforts, the report could only define two periods in which he was given reports about the conditions at the preschool.

data: periods period NOUN bn:00061605n 0 0


sentence: the first time in 1970 / 71, when he was just beginning to establish himself and did not want to hear about the practices in a school where he did not even work and for which he was not responsible (according to the witness), and then next only in around 1993.

data: school school NOUN bn:00069619n 0 0

data: witness witness NOUN bn:00081454n 0 0


did Georg Ratzinger systematically close his ears to the conditions?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: no, for already in 1989 he wrote a letter to the director of the Domspatzen secondary school, which was even reproduced in the report.

data: letter letter NOUN bn:00050802n 0 0


sentence: in that, he pointed this out, "that in the preschool corporal punishment is still practised."


even when facing the risk of negative press releases he recommended urgent intervention.


sentence: that was naturally at a time when there was legal clarity that corporal punishment had long been banned in Bavaria too.

data: clarity clarity NOUN bn:00019459n 0 0


before that, it was taking place in a legal grey zone, as every one of us well knows.


so it was also difficult for him to assess where those affected were perhaps exaggerating or dramatising and where the permissible limits had really been overstepped.


but one cannot say that he always turned a blind eye.


that is simply not true.


sentence: it was first in 1980 that corporal punishment in schools was officially abolished in Bavaria as well.

data: schools school NOUN bn:00069619n 0 0


Princess Gloria of Thurn and Taxis indeed asserts that it is unfair to apply today's educational standards to that earlier time.


what is your opinion on this?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: we historians talk here about "the pitfall of anachronism," that is, the danger of evaluating the past according to today's moral standards.

data: historians historian NOUN bn:00044258n 0 0

data: danger danger NOUN bn:00025170n 0 0


the Princess is quite right here.


sentence: but this of course does not apply to sexual abuse, which was despicable at all times, and also not to that which was perpetrated in the preschool in terms of vile acts and violence against innocent children; that of course goes far beyond what was accepted back then.


that is all absolutely terrible and I am glad that it is finally being looked into.


but at the same time I have to come to the defence of Georg Ratzinger, for all that has nothing to do with him.


sentence: his means of disciplining and punishing, that is, slapping around the face and pulling the hair and ears, was widespread in the 1970s.

data: hair hair NOUN bn:00042526n 0 0


when corporal punishment was then banned, he complied strictly with that too.


sentence: what image of his time in Regensburg did Georg Ratzinger reflect then in his conversations with you for the book "My Brother, the Pope"?

data: image image NOUN bn:00045970n 0 0

data: conversations conversation NOUN bn:00022349n 0 0

data: book book NOUN bn:00012059n 0 0


sentence: did the subject of corporal punishment ever come up?

data: subject subject NOUN bn:00074900n 0 0


sentence: Michael Hesemann: look, the book is about the life of his brother Joseph, that is Pope Benedikt XVI., told from his perspective, so the Domspatzen played only a subsidiary role.

data: life life NOUN bn:00010534n 0 0


nevertheless, I do not at all conceal that he ran a strict regime there.


sentence: but this too has to be said: without this perfectionism, without this demand for absolute discipline, it would hardly have been possible for him to forge from the Regensburger Domspatzen - up until that point famous rather on a national level - a world-class institution, a cultural ambassador for Europe and its musical tradition, that twice a-piece went on tour to the USA (1983 and 1987) and to Japan (1988 and 1991).

data: perfectionism perfectionism NOUN bn:00061549n 0 0

data: tradition tradition NOUN bn:00024592n 0 0


sentence: not with biscuits and sweets alone does one all at once turn insubordinate boys into great singers, and face every success, regardless of the area, but rather, with continuous discipline, passion and self-conquest.

data: singers singer NOUN bn:00071731n 0 0

data: passion passion NOUN bn:00060907n 0 0


sentence: what kind of impression did you get of Georg Ratzinger the man then in those conversations for your book?


sentence: Michael Hesemann: through the work on the book and beyond that, I got to know Georg Ratzinger really very well, and my experience of him was always as a wonderful, humorous, totally benevolent, deeply devout and good-hearted man, who one cannot imagine would be capable of even hurting a fly.

data: fly fly NOUN bn:00035494n 0 0


sentence: I regularly hear how many former Domspatzen still today keep in regular contact with him, 23 years after his retirement, visit him, read to him - he is almost blind - and treat him like a member of their family.

data: years year NOUN bn:00078738n 0 0

data: member member NOUN bn:00034004n 0 0


those who up until today still do not forgive him for once being too strict with them are therefore in the minority.


sentence: most Domspatzen are today grateful to him for enriching their lives and bringing them nearer to the world of music.

data: lives life NOUN bn:00051047n 0 0

data: music music NOUN bn:00056443n 0 0


sentence: and for always being a good, fatherly teacher - a strict father, sure, that may well be - but also a loving person, to be respected, whom they still look up to today and downright worship.

data: teacher teacher NOUN bn:00046958n 0 0

data: father father NOUN bn:00009616n 0 0


and please, once more, just to be clear: all that he is accused of are methods of education, that back then were order of the day.


we can be glad that we have long overcome this time.


sentence: but it is highly unjust to make a media scapegoat out of a man just because he is prominent and has an even more prominent brother.

data: man man NOUN bn:00001533n 0 0


sentence: the evil intention behind that is all too obvious.

data: intention intention NOUN bn:00002178n 0 0


sentence: for the report that was just published exonerates him.

data: report report NOUN bn:00067181n 0 0


sentence: now one would ask for the decency to finally leave in peace a 93-year-old man who has rendered great service and without whom probably no-one outside Bavaria and perhaps even Germany would know of the Regensburger Domspatzen

data: decency decency NOUN bn:00025688n 0 0

data: peace peace NOUN bn:00061150n 0 0