Bobby Lee: Comedy, Skyrim, Sex Robots, Love, Fame, and Power | Lex Fridman Podcast #287
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Bobby Lee is a comedian and co-host of TigerBelly and Bad Friends podcasts. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Bobby's Twitter: https://twitter.com/bobbyleelive
Bobby's Instagram: https://instagram.com/bobbyleelive
TigerBelly Podcast: https://youtube.com/c/TigerBelly
TigerBelly Merch: https://thetigerbelly.com
Bad Friends Podcast: https://youtube.com/c/BadFriends
Bad Friends Merch: http://badfriendsmerch.com

PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
0:59 - Wedding
6:58 - Video games
12:36 - Grappling
17:41 - Sex robots
20:40 - Khalyla
27:24 - Parenting
38:05 - Darkest moment
46:21 - Fame
56:36 - Carlos Mencia
1:03:25 - TigerBelly
1:17:03 - George and Gilbert
1:24:13 - Power
1:37:17 - Meaning of life

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 If you and I were able to go into Skyrim and walk around and live together, would we make love? No, no, no, no, man. Don't go there. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. Because we like girls, man. The following is a conversation with Bobby Lee, a standup comedian and podcaster and one of the funniest humans on the planet. And just someone who brings joy to my heart with a mix of non-sequitur absurdity, darkness, and the singing voice of an angel. In all seriousness, Bobby is just a beautiful human being. I've been a fan of his for 20 years since his time on Matt TV to today with this podcast, Tiger Belly, that he does with his other half, the love of his life, Kalala, and the podcast, Bad Friends, that he does with Andrew Santino. This is the Lex Friedman podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Bobby Lee. I've been a fan of yours for many, many years. I think you're one of the funniest people in the world. I've been a fan since Matt TV days 20 years ago to today with Tiger Belly. So given that, given your status as a world-class comedian, how did it feel that you were not invited to Andrew Schultz's wedding and I was? Well, you were there? Yeah, I was there. I was the least funny person there. And the whole time I was thinking, isn't that funny that Bobby Lee's not here? Yeah. All my life, I always felt like people didn't like me and they didn't want to invite me to things. I think that's fundamentally the reason why I do what I do. So it really did hurt a lot. And I had resentments. I did some revenge fantasies about how I'm gonna get revenge on him and stuff. Yeah, on him specifically. Him specifically. Like have a big wedding, invite everyone, accept him, stuff like that. And then just write him a letter like, see, that's how it feels or whatever. But instead of that, because I've been therapy and stuff, I'm just kind of like trying to let it go. What'd you do there? This right here, why'd you do that? I forgot to start the timer. And now it starts. You wanna start over? Yeah, let's do this. Let's do it again. Take two. No, you still feel like an outsider? Your exception is successful, me, don't you? You still feel? Yeah. I'm doing a Netflix show tonight with Andrew Santino at the Comedy Store and this and that. But like last night, I just felt like I wasn't a part of, in fact, on stage I go, I even mentioned that I go, Netflix, they don't like me. You know what I mean? And I just say things like that. They're not true. And this is something that I wanna correct with myself because I have this internal dialogue that's based on just the past. And 99% of the things that go on in my mind aren't true. And I'm just at a point in my life where I don't wanna live like that anymore. Really? Because I'm the same way, I'm deeply self-critical all the time. And that's kind of an engine that drives you to do stuff. Yeah, but it doesn't give you the kind of freedom that I would like. Don't you wanna be truly free? Free from your mind? Free from negative thoughts? No, I'm free part of the day. Some of the day I spend being extremely self-critical and that drives you because I'm afraid I'll become ultra lazy otherwise. Because I love life, I love being comfortable, I love just relaxing, I need very few things in life. And so I'm afraid I'll just get super lazy. Are you a minimalist? Yeah. So if I went to your house in Austin, do you have a couch? I recently got a, this is the first couch I've gotten ever because the guests were complaining because I also record the podcast there. The guests were complaining there's nowhere to sit. I have no chairs, no couch. I sleep on the floor, like a mattress is on the floor. Not out of principle, I think, out of some kind of minimalist momentum. Minimalist momentum. So we're the opposite in that way then. Oh, so you like stuff. I'm not a hoarder, but, because I can throw things away, but I have a shopping addiction, I think. Like when I'm on the road, like I was in Oklahoma for two weeks, I just, I bought a bunch of stuff, you know what I mean? And then, oh my God, I went to Todd Snyder and I bought, I bought these shoes. You know? Because you know, I- But you're wearing them. So they're actually, you're using them and they're giving value to your life. That's awesome. Yeah, but this is the last time I'm gonna wear these. This is one time. This is like a wedding. Yeah, it's a one time. It's a red carpet dress. Who's the designer, do you know? I don't know anything about- What are you wearing, Bobby? I don't know what I'm wearing, but because I'm on a native show called Reservation Dogs, right, I just wanna get into the spirit of things. That's your- Yeah, this is, because if I was ever like native and I was in a tribe back in the day, you know what I mean? I would have been a gatherer. Yeah, I'm not a hunter. No, I'm gonna weave baskets with the ladies. I wanna pick berries with the ladies. You wouldn't be the chieftain. No, no, no. And I would make, after the hunt, I would probably make some, so some of the guys make love to me. Oh. Yeah, because I'm gay, just because I'm eating away. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, yeah, I want them to like me. There's a power hierarchy, and you gotta know your place in the hierarchy. Yeah, you're alpha male then. I don't even know what that means. Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan is the definition of alpha male? To me, yeah. If there was a picture of alpha male in the dictionary, it would be Joe Rogan. It would be Joe Rogan? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you hoard stuff, okay. Yeah, yeah. But you can throw in, when was the last time, let me call you out on that. When was the last time you threw away something that's actually valuable? Valuable. Like something valuable to you or valuable in general? Most things that I buy aren't valuable to me. There are things that are valuable to me that are like keepsakes for my family and stuff that I will keep forever. So like in terms of like an old photo of my father or whatnot, so those kind of things I keep. But when it comes to like, you know, Aviator Nation sweats, like if somebody came over to my house and goes, hey, can I have six of those sweatshirts or whatever? I'd be like, yeah, go take it. Okay. And my brothers come over to my house and she's done a clearance, you know what I mean? Like I'm gonna take this, this, this. I generally really don't have a problem with. So the self-critical voice is serving no purpose in terms of, because you're pretty, you know, I'm a fan of yours, so you're known to be a little bit lazy sometimes. 100% lazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the self-critical voice, don't you think that it's serving a purpose and fighting off the laziness, beating off the laziness? The self-critical voice that I have, I've been able to compartment, how do you say it? Compartment. Yeah, however you say it. Yeah. You're free. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Put it in a compartment. Yeah. Right? And I'm able to like, I'm a good avoider. I'm good at avoidance. So for instance, right now to avoid, I've been playing Stardew Valley. You know what that is? No. It's a phone game or? No, it's a, you can play it on your Switch, but it's on the Xbox and it's a farming simulation game. And so I like to farm, you know what I mean? And so in playing video games and doing stuff like that, distracts me from what really is going on. Okay, you've mentioned elsewhere in terms of video games, Elder Scrolls. Yeah, did you play that? Yeah, of course. It's probably my favorite game. If I could live in a world, you played Morrowind and Skyrim. I played Oblivion. Oblivion. I played a little bit of Morrowind, but I didn't like the graphics back then, but I really played the, can I swear on this podcast? Yeah. I played the fuck out of Oblivion and Skyrim. Like eight characters, played it all the way through. I have to do all the quests, that type of thing. What's your favorite thing about those games? Why did you spend so much time in that world? Because I like games that you can grind. What do you mean by grind? So like Stardew Valley, for instance, right? There's a lot of- Back to the farming simulation. Back to farming, right? It's the same thing as Skyrim, the reason why I like it, is that there's a lot of like, I have to collect a lot of these things. You know what I mean? I have to just constantly pick things up. You know what I mean? Like for instance, in Skyrim, there's a mushroom called blisterwort mushroom that you can pick and then you can make it into some sort of formula, right? Potion. Yeah, the potion, yep. So I would spend like literally human 12-hour days just going to every cave and picking up as much blisterwort as I could. Like that kind of grinding. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you're actually the randomly generated quests that they just do, designed for people like you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't get bored, that's the fun. Yes, that's the fun for me. Okay. Yeah, there's always something to do and I find, like when you play a game that's linear, like there's certain games where you have to go this way, right? I don't like games like that. I like open world games where I can make choices and I can grind if I want. Yeah, yeah. And then you can actually stay in that world if you could live in that world, in the Elder Scrolls world. That's how I feel. In reality or become like an animated thing in there? Oh no, say like virtual reality. We're moving towards that direction. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If you look at Skyrim, you mentioned graphics, it's become, it's starting to get realistic. Yeah. Like I'll sometimes just walk around, I mean it's been a while, but I'll just walk around in Skyrim. Yeah. You can, there's code you can turn off enemies and you just walk around. Really? Yeah, you just listen to music and just walk around. That's what you did? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would do that. Wouldn't you do that? Would you do it with me? Yeah, sure. We would have a house together? Oh, I mean live, I thought walk around. No, no, no. No, if you and I were able to go into Skyrim, right? And walk around and live together. Would we make love? No, no, no, no, man. Don't go there. Okay. No, no, no, no. Because we like girls, man. That's right. It's not gay. You told me it's not gay. Yeah, it's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so you and I would. I would hunt, you would gather. But in that world. There's no hunting. Yeah, but there is hunting. I would have the, because we don't have to find a bandits. We have to fight. I'm not gonna gather a bandit. I'm gonna hunt them. But I thought you said it's all about the potion. You don't need the bandits. Okay, well, we could do this. You could be the guy that like defends our place, right? I'll gather all the blister ward, all the white caps, all the mushrooms, I'll get all the food. You know what I mean? I'll go to Whiterun. Remember Whiterun? Yeah. Right, or Winterhold. And I'll do all the like quests that have nothing to do with, you know what I mean? So no dragons though? No. No dragons, but we would have a banquet. We'd invite the Dark Dark Brotherhood. Yeah. Right. The Fighters Guild, we'd definitely invite them. Mages Guild, we'd invite them. Are you a thief kind of guy? I'm a thief guy. Yeah, I'm a thief for life. Yeah, I'm a thief guy for life. And you still wouldn't invite Andrew Schultz to that. No, no, no. What a piece of shit though, huh? Because let me just say something, okay? I just wanna get back to that, okay? Okay, sure. So I met him at the Montreal Comedy Festival and him and I are kindred souls. We really connected. Yeah. And he did my podcast. He's done it several times. I've done his. We've like communicated on the phone, this and that. And to me, and then he invites Whitney Cummings, which Whitney is a good friend of mine. But what I'm saying is that I know Andrew as well as Whitney knows him. I don't think that Whitney knows him more than I do, right? What if it was a competition? Like it was a tie, you know, like Bobby Lee versus Whitney. Yeah. In what way do you think she's better and what way do you think you're better? I think it's all about gender optics. Okay. So he's a comedian. He has all these alpha males coming and he's like, all right, I have one more seat left. Whitney or Bobby, but Bobby is, although I don't think there was a lot of Koreans there. So he could have used that card. This is true. Right, but I think he went for, you know, Whitney is a woman, it's better for optics. Okay, so she was a diversity hire for the wedding. Yeah. I see. It was pretty fun. It was pretty, I have to say, I don't, it was Joe Rogan. Yeah, I know. His wife. I get it. Yeah. And then Whitney. Are those the only comedians that were there? I spent a whole time talking to Joe. I think, no, I don't think there was that many comedians. So I'm kind of joking about, it was a pretty, pretty small wedding. Yeah. What do you talk to Joe about? First of all, we're both grapplers. So we talk a lot about Jiu-Jitsu. We talk a lot about- I'm a grappler. Are you? I was on the wrestling team in high school. Yeah, I know. I know this. As a grappler, to you, if I don't know Jiu-Jitsu, is there only one kind of grappling that you like? Yeah, there's levels to this game, I think. I just talked about, no, no, no, there's nothing more. That's a surprising fact that you've dropped that. It almost feels like a lie, because you've said that before that you were a wrestler in high school. It doesn't make sense. Well, it's funny that you say that, because, and I'm gonna cause a little controversy here. Yeah. But Joe Rogan, one time came to me, when he lived in LA, this is years ago, he said, you're a liar. You've never grappled. And I go, yes, I did. You're a fucking liar. No, you didn't. And at that time, I didn't have any photos to prove it. But if you look at my Instagram, I have photos. That I was grappling. Of you as a young man, dressed in a singlet or what? On the wrestling team. On the wrestling team. If you go to the fucking, sorry, if you go to my fucking high school, you're right, I was on the wrestling team for three years. I'm not gonna go to your high school, so is there actual photo evidence of you? Yeah, you know what, you're being like Rogan right now, and I, you know, it really is. How do we know it's not Photoshopped? Oh, you be the judge then, dude. Okay, so this is my brother and me in high school on the wrestling team. Which, oh, you are, yeah, you are. I'm the bottom. That's my brother to the left. I mean, yeah, to your right. Oh, handsome. Yeah, I'm not as, yeah. How much do you weigh? Wow. At the time I weighed, I was on the 105 weight category. Yeah. Yeah. But, so I was also on the tennis team. What people don't realize is that I'm very athletic. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I resent the fact that people think that I'm not, because I'm doughy. You're an athlete, so, which is very surprising to me. Why? That, so I was invited to the wedding. Yeah, yeah. I've also been on Joe Rogan's podcast. He's a big fan of yours. I know, I love Joe. No, Joe, when Joe's, and I see to the we hogging stuff, we talk, I love him. I just talked to him today, said I'm talking to you. This is hilarious. So why, oh, you hog him, and you just never. It just hasn't worked out. Like, I don't like, I don't want to go like, hey, because I don't want the rejection. So it's like, if I go, right, hey, can I do it? And he goes, I don't know, man, I'm busy, man. We don't, we got, I got a lot. I mean, maybe later, you know, I don't want that. So if, you know, if, if he said, hey, are you available Thursday, this day, fly out, do my podcast, I would 100% do it. And that hasn't happened yet. So interesting. Why is it interesting? I don't know, cause you're, like I said, you're one of the funniest people in the world. That'd be a great conversation. It's just funny it hasn't happened yet. Well, it's like this conversation. It's like, I just learned how to tell time. Yeah. Not like, I know how to read digital. You showed up on time today. No, digital. I know how to write digital, obviously, but in terms of the hand clock, I just learned that six months ago. How to operate a hand clock? To read a hand clock. Hand clock, okay. Not that I, obviously I'll be able to absorb the information. I just, I'm one of those guys that just refused to learn things if I just. What did you think it was before? I would look at it and I would try to sometimes, like if I was at a train station, Yeah. And I would look at those old clocks. Yeah. I would look at it and try to guess. And I would kind of go, I think this is the way, you know what I mean? But like not fully, you know what I mean? Really grass. So the way ancient people looked up at the sun to try to tell time, you looked at a clock to try to tell time. Right. Like for instance, like we don't look at the sun, right? So to me it was an obsolete information to me. Because of digital. You already had digital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that's somehow comparable to you going on the Joe Rogan. And you, because it's like, I don't know much about. Podcasting. No, podcasting I can, but in terms of like the singularity and all that stuff, like I know what it is, you know what I mean? When machines gonna be have consciousness. When is that gonna happen? Soon. Are you afraid of robots? See, if you were in Austin, I would show you some robots. Oh, I'd love to. Are you afraid of robots? No, I love it. You love robots. Oh yeah, yeah. In fact, I have this, I think to me, unless they become hostile and it becomes like the Terminator, which I think could happen, right? There'd be a Skynet, we have to bring it down, whatever. There's definitely going to be autonomous weapon systems. So a lot of the robotics research is being conducted, funded by the military. Wow. You know, the military industrial complex. I know what that is, yes. Yeah, so a lot of the cutting edge research is done, is funded by DOD, Department of Defense, DARPA and so on. So a lot of the robots will be used in war, but hopefully not most of consumer robotics will be in the home. I'm just trying to terrify you. No, no, no, but can I ask you this though? Sure. What you're saying to me is that as a lay person, is that in my lifetime, that machines will have consciousness. Oh, that I don't know. Computers. I'm one of the people, well, depending, you live dangerously, so I don't know how long you're going to live. So let's put, but I believe that consciousness, yes, could be engineered in a machine, or at least we can have machines that are human-like and we believe they have consciousness. Can I ask you one last question about it? Yes. But just one more. Will they have the smoothness of skin and will they look realistic? See, I'm one of those people that believes that visual appearance isn't the magic. So if you're blind, you can still have a connection with a person. People can fall in love with each other through just letters. So yeah, I know you're mocking me with your entire energy, but yes, I believe that part too. You're talking about sex bots is what you're probably getting. Okay, intimacy. Why would you? Just friends, friends, but you want to feel the smoothness of those. Yeah, like a guy. Just go, what's up, dude? And just rub his face. Just hug and kiss and come both cheeks kind of thing. I get what you're saying though, right? Obviously there's no soul, you're right. And I'm just curious to see. You're right, I was going with sex bots, but. Yeah, yeah. Have you seen Whitney Cummings' robot? Yeah, I've seen it. Okay, how did that make you feel? She's a beautiful girl, I just don't find her attractive. The robot or Whitney? I find the robot way more attractive. Yeah, if I had the choice robot. So you were turned on by the robot. See, I was surprised by the very thing you're saying, which is the realism of the skit. Like it was quite, they did a really good job on that robot. Oh, they did? The life, when it's animated, the life is not quite there. You can tell it's a robot, but just sitting there still, it has a lot of human-like elements, the texture. I don't know, it's quite fascinating. So they're getting there. They're getting there. But the funny thing about sex robots is most people that get sex robots, they don't get it for the sex, they get it for intimacy. Not sexual intimacy, but just somebody being there. It's the emotional connection, not the sexual. Yeah, I mean, I saw a long time ago a documentary about real dogs and people marrying them. Yeah. And what I was fascinated about is the cuddling, you know what I mean? And then watching TV together and stuff like that, which I find, I've just been able to find human girlfriends and stuff. So I'm good at it. That's really impressive. That's one of the reasons. Thanks, man. Yeah, thanks, man. Speaking of human girlfriends, I'd love your advice in this direction, but you have an amazing relationship with Kalyla. Yeah. So you two are very different. So you host the Tiger Brothers podcast together, but there's real love there. There's a real connection. What do you love most about Kalyla? Let's talk about love, Bobby Lee. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a really pretty deep, I've never really gone down this path. We're gonna walk down that path together holding hands. It's one of those things where the first time I met her, it was almost as if I had known her all my life. It was really weird. You know what I mean? There was a trust there, you know what I mean? That was just fundamentally there that I could trust her and that I could, you know, when I look in the mirror and I see all my character defects and stuff, a lot of those things aren't necessarily things I wanna share with people because I don't wanna be judged or ridiculed. But with her, I felt comfortable showing those things and I think she feels the same way about her. And then secondly, she's funny. I mean, she made me laugh and she's hot. It's all, you know what I mean? The perfect, it was like a perfect combination of things. You know what I mean? One night we were in bed and I forgot what the joke was, but she really made me laugh one night. She was living in an apartment in Long Beach and I cackled, you know what I mean? And generally women don't make, I mean, not women I'm dating, comics do, don't make me cackle in that way. And then thirdly, she has, she's partly Asian. So it's like, you know, one time I dated a white girl and I invited her to Korea town. You're about to be racist? A little bit. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And what I love about Asian girls is they'll eat something first and ask what it is after, but white girls ask what it is before. What is this, right? But Kali was like, would eat the eyeball, eat everything, go, what did I just eat? I like that, you know what I mean? So it's like, and it reminds me of my mom in that way, in terms of like my mom growing up just to scare us and freak us out, we'd have a fish and she would eat the eyeball first to see a squirm. And as a kid that you thought was gross and weird and this and that, but it's like, you know, when Kali does it, it just kind of like, I don't know, it just makes me feel like at home in a weird way. It's a little act of fearlessness. I like that. Yeah. Just put in your mouth and figure it out. Yeah, that's what I like. And at the end of the day, she also, out of all my girlfriends, and this is gonna sound not strange, but hard to admit, but my career when I met Kali was in the shit box. I could not get anything going. And this is at the time where Ken Jeong, who's a very good friend of mine, very talented, was getting everything. And I just remember going, I can't even get an audition. Like I can't, I would go on the road, Lex, and I would fill half the room. I just couldn't sell tickets. And when I met her, I was just kind of like, maybe this is the, I had to find love and open up my world in that way. And she was the first girlfriend that I ever had that looked at me and saw the potential. And she said, no, this is not, doesn't feel right. You're so funny and you're so relevant to me and this is what we're gonna do. And so she started Tiger Belly. And then obviously I had the skillset to do it, but once Tiger Belly happened and then Andrew was like, let's do Bad Friends. And then now things are great. My career is, I'm too busy almost in a weird way. And I feel like she had a lot to do with, like for instance, before I met her, even if I would get an audition, I wouldn't go because I just wouldn't get it. In my head I was like, I'm not gonna get this. I've gone on a thousand of these and they just never hire me. But she was, so I just didn't go on them for years. And then she was the first girlfriend that said, no, I don't care if you don't get it. I just don't want you to be a pussy. And I want you to walk through fear. And so she would drag me to these fucking things and I for some reason would book them. You know what I mean? So, you know, in that way. She saw the potential of what you could be. But she loved you for who you are already. Yes. But also loved you for the potential that you could become. Yeah, and I'm lucky in that way. So on day one you could show her, you said you could show your flaws to her. Like you felt like you could be fragile with her? Well, I accidentally farted. Yeah, or day one? On day one. You know, because I just, I'm a fart machine. And I have loose cheeks. Yeah. I like how you, for the listeners, he just winked at me. Yeah, I have loose cheeks and. But not in a gay way. Not in a gay way, no. And I, we were on a couch and we're talking and I kind of adjusted my body. I ripped one by accident and she laughed. You know what I mean? It wasn't embarrassing, you know? And also I have a little penis. I have a little penis. It's all relative. Yes, it's a little. But relative to an elephant, everybody's penis is little. Yeah, but I'm not an elephant. I'm a human, you know what I mean? So relatively human, it's very small. And so when she saw it, you know what I mean? I thought she was gonna balk at it, right? And she looked at it as if it was like an orphan. Like, you know, like I wanna, you know what I mean? It's a lost child and I wanna, you know, take care of it. Yeah, yeah. Cradle it. Cradle it, yeah. What about you, man? You haven't met anybody like that? Never met a girl, never seen one of them. I hear they're nice. When are the two of you getting married? We don't know yet, yeah. Is that something you would like? Yeah. This comes up sometimes. You know, we're in couples counseling. We're dealing, we're working on some issues that we have. Every relationship, even my friendships have issues. And so we're working through some issues. And once we get to the end of it, we'll figure it out. Would you like to be a father one day? This is kind of couples counseling. Yeah. You know, yeah, I do. I do, because I feel like, you know, before I was very childlike, you know, I play a lot of video games. I'm irresponsible, I'm lazy, this and that, right? But, you know, to be honest with you, Lex, in the last six months, I've really have come through some breakthroughs. And I'm in therapy and I'm doing a lot of things and really self-analyzing myself and my behaviors and what I want, my desires. And I think ultimately, yes, I really do. Because it's a life experience that, you know, I don't wanna be an old man looking back and going, it's something that I've always was interested in. And I think it's based on fear because I don't want to scar my child the way my parents scarred me. But at the same time, my parents didn't do the work on themselves like I am. And they were never about self-improvement. They were just about, they were immigrants, you know, and they wanted to put food on the table. And after that, they just went about their business. And I'm not like that. I would never be violent toward my kids like my parents were. My dad was very physically abusive, you know, there was a lot of trauma and stuff. And so, you know, as a kid, I thought, you know, I just would never put my kid through this. So that's why I never wanted it, but I would completely do it differently, you know, even yelling and those kinds of things. I would be very mindful about those things. And I think that I have certain things, you know, I'm not a sciencey guy like you, but there are life things that I've learned over the years that I could teach a child, you know, about living in the moment or walking through fear or, you know, things that, you know, things will pass and just different things, you know, that I could, I would be a good listener. And yeah, I would like to do that. So your dad died in August of 2019. Wow. Yeah. He did your research. Yeah, it's on your Wikipedia. Yeah. So you said some of it was rough, but what's your fondest memory of your dad? Well, those memories happened later in life. As a child, my fondest memory was my mom, because he never spent time with us. So my mom made him take me out one day and he took me to a park. Like he doesn't, there was no baseball glove or baseball or anything like that. And we sat on a park bench and we sat on a bench and we sat on a park bench, right? And we just sat there for hours. We didn't talk because he didn't know English that well, I didn't know Korean. So it's just very, you know, basic, you know, information being, you know what I mean? How are you? This is how we go, how you doing? I'm okay, you know? Good, good, good. That type of thing. Yeah, for a long time. For a long time. And then, but the day turned bad because I forgot my jacket there and he yelled at me. But there's a bit of peace together. At that time, yeah, there was peace. But then what happened was later in life, when I got Matt TV and I was doing, you know, in my early years, you know, I'd booked a couple of things like in 2000, I did the Tonight Show on Leno. And then I did, I got Matt TV in 2000. And wow, that was over 20 years ago. And that's when they, my parents kind of went, huh, you know, because obviously, you know, there's some nepotism in Hollywood, right? But in my case, my parents were straight up immigrants. I had no connections to Hollywood. And I came up here poor, you know, with no connections. And I built it, you know what I mean? Through the years, you know? And in that way, I'm very proud of myself because I went through a lot of fucking hell and sadness and desperation and all that stuff. And I persevered and I did all that shit on my own, man. I booked the Tonight Show on my own. I got Matt TV on my own. And when I did those things, my parents were very proud. But before that, did they doubt you? Oh yeah. You're not funny. You never make me laugh, right? And that kind of stuff. You're never gonna make it. You know what I mean? You're gonna be poor all your life, you know, and that kind of stuff. But Matt TV, he was proud? Your dad, your parents? Because it was a weekly show. So on Saturday nights, they would watch it. They would? Yeah, and I would play characters that they would understand. Like I did Kim Jong-il at the time, right? So they loved that, right? They loved the things that I would do, the physical comedy. And they couldn't believe in their mind. Imagine your parents from Korea coming here, not knowing the language, having a child here, right? And in their minds, that was never like an option, right? And so when they see their kid, I guess, on TV, especially there was no internet too at the time. The internet had just started. So to them, they were like, this is a miracle. In fact, when I did the Tonight Show, my dad called me the next day and asked me, how much, he literally asked me this. He goes, how much did you pay them to do it? He thought that I had saved all my money. Like he thought that like Tom Cruise goes up there and goes, here's a grand thanks for having me on. Like, you know what I mean? No, I go, no, they asked me. Like so all the conceptually, they were just shocked by it. So when I got it and then they were watching me weekly, that TV, the producer was like, hey, have your dad on. So my dad did two or three sketches on television. So those memories, I also did a pilot for Comedy Central and he was on my pilot. A pilot for like a show? Yeah, show. I think I picked up, but he was on the pilot. He was in the show? Yeah, he was in the pilot. He was on that TV too, on television. Interesting. Yeah. Oh wow, okay. Yeah, yeah, so it's like he would get residual checks. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's changed everything. There's nepotism in reverse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really nepotism in reverse. And so he, in those memories are very, I have very fond memories because he had changed as well. He was no longer that violent kind of a guy. He had softened a lot, you know what I mean? But when he died is when those issues came up, you know, like a freight train. The bad stuff. Oh yeah. And I didn't know what was going on. It was really hard. You miss him? How often do you think about him? Every day. Obviously a lot of it's regrets, you know what I mean? Like what kind of regrets? Not having said something or not having had a conversation? It's not regrets because even if he was still alive, there are just things that are impossibilities because of his culture and the way he was raised. But my regret in life will always be having those types even because I tried, I was with my mom a couple of months ago and I looked at her and I had tears in my eyes. We're at a Starbucks. I go, mom, I just wanna let you know that I'm so sorry that you lived in that house and my dad hit you and you survived, you stayed in the marriage because of us, right? And you know what her response was? Let's go to Pucca di Peppo. She wanted Italian food. Like it was, it like, there was no, there was nothing there, right? And so my regret is that they just would, they'll never be able to even grasp the concept of that kind of communication, you know what I mean? And I'll never have it. So that's sad to me, you know? But there's nothing I can do about it. Yeah, that callous that comes with the immigrant mentality, you don't even, that emotional connection's not even there. I've had my grandmother, she, there's something called hall demora, which is starvation in Ukraine in the 1930s that you had to live through. She lived through World War II and there's nothing, like the only way you survive that is the callous you bring, you can't talk with. People that fought in major wars, they can't. They can't, yeah, they can't talk about it. My mom, when she was 12 years old, she walked her little sister, my aunt, to school, right? She forgot a book. So my mom goes to my little sister, my aunt, stay here. I'm gonna go get my book. She ran up, she came back. While she was gone, a military truck ran over my aunt and my mom discovered her body split in half, entrails, the whole thing. And my mom and my uncles had to go and get rice bags to pick up her, you know what I mean? And then bury my aunt, you know? When you live through something like that, and also the guilt, because my mom believes deep down that if she didn't forget that book, that my aunt would still be alive, right? So she carries all this guilt and this, and to survive all that trauma, you have to build a callous. Back then, they didn't have EMDR and therapists and psychologists and any of that, right? So they had to survive, so that's who she is. And it's sad to me that, you know what I mean? That it'll forever, she'll forever live in that torment. I think it might hurt, if things keep getting worse. Boy, what about your own? What's been the darkest place you've ever gone in your mind? Oh my God, what the, you wrote that down in my mind? thought about it. About four months ago, I was in a really bad place. I was naked in a hotel room in Arizona. I hadn't eaten in almost a week. I hadn't slept in over a week. I thought I was dying. I was coughing up blood. I was waiting to go into an outpatient psychologist place in Arizona. I literally thought I was dying. So recently, I was in a very dark place. How much was that connected to losing your father? How much was that connected to rehab and that kind of stuff? Alcohol, drugs? It's all the same thing, dude. It's all the same thing, man. It's all from my childhood. The reason why I do stand up is because of my childhood. The hating yourself or being self-critical that has to do with your childhood. Yeah. So the drugs and drinking is childhood? It's all about survival and protecting your heart. There are ways that I did that as a kid, like using humor as a defense mechanism and also avoidance of all emotions, because it's just the one to feel. The reason why I was able to survive in comedy is because I can withstand a lot of bullshit and pain. Physical, physical emotional, spiritual pain, I can absorb it. But now what's happened later in life is I'm unwilling to do that. I'm unwilling to absorb it. I'm unwilling to carry this weight around with me and it'll kill me. So I am doing everything I can to free myself of all this baggage. So how you're naked in Arizona in a hotel room, face down or face up or on the side? What's your favorite when you go to a dark place? On the floor, on the bed or bathtub, shower? A fetal position. I don't lay on my stomach. That's weird. I'm not doing a downward dog or yoga position or anything like that. On the bed, on the floor? No, what happened was I had a relapse. I was doing drinking all night long. What was the first relapse? What is the first thing you did? Just drank? What? Wine? No, I took an edible. And that opened the door to drinking. Yeah. And the combination is not good for me. The excess of the amounts isn't good for me. I just can't stop. And I do it 24 hours a day. Were you alone? Well, no, I was living with Kaila. No, I mean, at that moment when you did the edibles. I was alone. No, I took a flight because I was shooting Magnum. I'm on a show called Magnum PI. So I was flying to Hawaii. So I bought edibles. And then right before I was going to get on the plane, I looked at my girlfriend and said, I'm going to relapse. Oh, so you knew. I knew. So I got on the plane. I took it. And then literally the next three months were like a blur. Why did you know? What gave you the sense that you're going to relapse? There was a couple of things that happened in my life that were very shocking to me. And I wasn't going to meetings. It's the same old story. I was not connected to my sobriety brothers and sisters. And I was drifting away. And something in your mind, it was just too much. The pain was too much. So I did it. And then so what happened was now two and a half months in, three months in, I started coughing up chunks of blood. I've been a smoker since I was 17 years old. And I was smoking so much weed and cigarettes that I would just cough up blood. But then simultaneously what happened was Bob Sackett and Louie Anderson died. And that week when I was coughing up blood, because I knew them, both of them, I just in my head going, I'm next. Because to me, everything happens in threes. And I had convinced myself that I was going to die and I was on the precipice of death. And so I begged my people to put me into this place in Arizona. Because I knew I needed to go to a really rigorous psychology program to get me out of whatever I was going through. And also I was getting, at that time when I was in that hotel room, I had not drank or even smoked a cigarette or didn't drug in a week. I had to wait in LA for this bed to open up. So I was coughing up blood. I hadn't slept. I hadn't eaten. I was sober, but I was in so much pain. And I slept naked by the door of this hotel room because I thought it would be easier for the maid to discover my body. I mean, that's how fucked up I was. I was just in this prison in my mind. And I'm much better now. Can you give some insights to how to get out of that place? How you got out of that place? I think getting sober first of all was very important, but that still didn't do it completely. You know what I mean? I still was convinced that I was. And then I went to this place and I did, you know, this place is a 12 hours a day psychotherapy place where you do 12 hours. You see therapists all day long. So it's like a 12 hour long podcast every day? Yeah, yeah. But with professionals and they call you on your shit and they tell you what's real and they tell you, you know what I mean? I'm going also dealing with, you know, still my dad, still some of these other things. And the third thing that happened was when I got back to LA after that place, I got my lungs checked out and I got my physical done and you know, EKG, my heart, all of it. And I was completely fine, you know, and I quit smoking. I haven't smoked in almost four months. I haven't drank and done drugs since then too. So, you know, there's definitely a complete clarity. And I have to also admit that this time around, it's just been completely different. Is there still in the distance a fear of relapse and all that kind of stuff? Is that still? No. So you feel good? I feel great. Yeah. I feel better than I've ever felt. Even when hard shit happens? Yeah, because it's like I no longer want to be in that place. And also on top of it, it's like it would be a real shame because I've worked so hard to get to this place in my life, not just in my career with all of it. You know what I mean? I have so much to lose. I have so many people that love me. I just don't want to be there again. You know, let me ask you. Sorry, you've talked about this before, but it's interesting. Let me ask you a question. You always wear a suit only for the podcast? Yeah, I wear it in private too. Oh, you do? Not always now because I get recognized, unfortunately, so I have to be selective about how I wear. You like it when being recognized or no? So because of podcasting, as you probably know, the people that at least recognize me are happen to be amazing people. So like, yeah, like they, it's an immediate connection. So there's two things about that I don't like. So one, I'm, I fall in love with people. And so the nature of interaction is like, well, it's kind of be short. So, yeah, so like you have to say goodbye. And I hate goodbyes. You do. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing is just introversion. Like I just, I'm, I'm, I'm an introvert. I'm a, I have social anxiety. I have, um, nervous about talking to people and so on. So, so you have to always, I'm walking around always a little bit anxious that there'll be an interaction, but ultimately once it starts, it's fun. It's beautiful. And then the, the, the, the, the goodbyes what hurts. So both the hello and the goodbyes what hurts is the stuff in the middle that's delicious. I think there's a beautiful thing though, for people like you and I in a weird way, you know, because, um, number one, I'm an, I don't know about you, but I'm an isolator. I don't really like, you know, any kind of social thing. You know, um, I like my, even when I was doing drugs and drinking, I never do it with people. I do it privately in a garage, you know? And secondly, um, you know, like I was, my girlfriend and I went, watched the Northman, the movie, the Northman. No, what is it? Does it tell me the plot line? You didn't even heard of the Northman? I have not heard of the Northman. It's Agoriz. He did a movie called the witch. He also did a movie called the lighthouse. You ever see the lighthouse? Okay. You watch movies? No, you've never seen a movie. I've seen the godfather. Yeah. I bet you money. You've seen Dr. Javaga. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like you like historical sweeping Schindler's list. Yeah. Yeah. If it's not historical or sweeping, you're not gonna. All right. So, um, I, how do I explain it? It's, it's basically a Viking movie. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And um, scars, one of the scars guard, I don't know, the scars guard brothers is in it. Bjork's in it. Willem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Ethan Hawke. And it's a, you know, it's a Viking revenge movie. So why does it make you think about isolation? No, because no, well, what I was going to say is when we went, when we went to the movie theater, right. Um, afterwards there was a kid sitting next to me and, um, he just looks at me cause he, I guess he didn't know I was sitting next to him or whatever. And he just went, you know, Hey dude, I just can't believe you're sitting next to me, you know, and you're my hero and, um, I'm thinking I'm doing comedy and it's really hard. So I was able to give him some encouraging things and cause that's who I am too. You know what I mean? I want to help people. And I also, um, you know, the idea that he likes me, cause he also sped it up specifics about my life, about my comedy and this and that. So he definitely was a fan and I was able to, you know, you know, I'm not, even if I become Joe Rogan famous or that big, you know what I mean? I've, I'm always going to say hi to people. I'm always going to take photos with people. I like that part, you know, of me. It makes me feel also that I belong in a weird way because I felt so invisible before I did comedy. You know what I mean? I felt invisible and, um, um, it puts me in the game of life, I think in a weird way, you know, so I think it's good for you as well. Yeah. It's a little, little moment of experiencing love. It's like, it does feel like celebrating life together. You smile at each other and so on. Although you did say, I think in a recent podcast that the, you know, people recognize you, but recognize you incorrectly. That I don't like. That, that's the opposite of love. Okay. Yeah. That, that I don't like, uh, loved you in the hangover. Yeah. You know what I mean? You know, I, I, you know, I, or this is what I don't like. This is why I hate this. Yes. Some guy will like me, right? I'll take a photo and then other people will go, huh, he's somebody and will walk up to me and go, Hey, so why did he take a photo? You know what I want a photo. And then you're like, no, I don't do, would you do that? No, I would, I don't like that. No. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I do like the, uh, the experience where maybe there's a couple, uh, a guy and a girl, boyfriend and girlfriend, and the guy is a fan and the girlfriend has no idea. And it's always a funny interaction because she's like trying to figure out what is happening here. And it's always beautiful to see. Cause what if the guy, when he, the guy explains to his girlfriend who you are, do you feel uncomfortable about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It loads the information is transferred quickly and she starts to understand because she's not used to her boyfriend being excited about a stranger. It's like what was happening here. So it's a fascinating little dynamic. That's a beautiful, it's like, uh, the spread of information happens right there in real life. It's beautiful. It's mostly though, do you, would you say that it's probably usually men that recognize you or no, but men, the thing I've discovered is men are more likely to approach aggressively, right? Uh, women recognize you. They'd have a different way of like double take. Uh, they don't want to, uh, invade your space. Guys are like, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They come in with a hug at, uh, South by Southwest had a guy. Um, I was just walking to a seven. I go to seven. I have a lot. My favorite spot. Seven 11. Yes. Uh, sugar-free slushy. I think for happiness. I like, I find happiness at a seven 11. So adorable late, late at night. And he came up and, you know what, can I tell you something that happened to me? I haven't told anybody. This never happened to me before. I was outside of a seven 11 in Austin. I'm not going to say which one. And there was a gentleman that approached me. This is at three or four at night, which is usually when I go, uh, I program all night and I just like to go and take a break. He approached me in the way that maybe somebody who recognized me approached me. He did a double take. He walked past me and then walked back and then looked at me and I went into the seven 11. I thought that's weird. Uh, and then I came out with my slushy and, and then he approached me and he said, can I give you a blow job? So I have never, really? Yeah. So the energy he put, I've never had, were you wearing a suit? No. Okay. I was wearing like, uh, the sweatpants and that was very kind of like hiding from the world. Uh, type of thing. I've never had anybody approached me that way, but the energy he put, the love he had in the approach, I thought he'd be like, um, love you on Rogan. Yeah. Love the something. Love some kind of, and then he just said, can I, I'm forgetting the exact wording because it wasn't, uh, the, the wording was such that he wasn't, he wanted to make me happy. He didn't want to make himself happy. You want to make me happy. I forgot. Can I give you a blowjob? I think that was the thing. Cause if he said, can you give me a blowjob, it would be very different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I think there's more aggressive way of phrasing that, but he, he presented himself. See, I forget it was almost like gentle and poetic. And I was like, I just started and said, no, no, thank you. Move past everyone does. Yeah. No, thank you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Thank you. In my mind, I was like, is this a threat? Because it's for a night. I wasn't exactly sure. I mean, I've never experienced this. I imagine this is what sort of, um, women often experience that kind of the danger, the constant threat all around you, but I've never, that's just, it was, uh, it was a funny little moment. I, I didn't know what to do with it. Yeah. That happened. And I, I go to that seven 11 often looking for the guy. Cause now I would say yes. No, there used to be a steam room in Beverly on Beverly Boulevard. And, um, my brother and I walked in there once and I, we walked in and was a man sitting there erection and his Dick was so big, he was jerking it off with both hands and we kind of walked in and he goes, what's up? And he just did it. And we just sat there, you know what I mean? Because it was not aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that was the same feel you sense that it wasn't an aggressive thing. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. It was just a kind, it was, he was just minding his own business and he threw it out. But it wasn't also, it wasn't sexual either. It was like, it was like, it's just, you know, it's just like, it's like love or something. I felt like he, it's almost like, can I give you a hug? Right. Then why don't you just take it? I, I keep looking for it. Next time I see it, but not in a gay way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to be clear while that. Did you grow up in Russia or Ukraine? Russia. Russia. Yeah. But your great grandmother, your grandmother was in. My father is Ukrainian. My grandmother is Ukrainian. So if you just look at the full family tree is about half and half as Russia. A lot of conflict with you right now. Internally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me, let me ask, you've talked about this before, but I'd love to sort of re-explore this as Carlos Mencia. Oh my God. Yeah. Why? Why go there again? Yeah. I'm willing to do it, but do you like Carlos? Well, first of all, I'm friends with Joe. And I remember being a fan of, I'm outside of this whole world. I remember thinking Carlos was funny. Yeah. So I just, as a fan, I was like, oh, funny. And then I remember this, this, all this big controversy about him stealing jokes. And because I'm a fan of yours, it's such an interesting human dynamic. And I'm a fan of friendship and loyalty. And you had a great podcast conversation with him. It was tense. It was so tense. It was very tense. Yeah. But it was interesting. And it, it kind of, well, it makes me think of you talking to your father on that bench. Yeah. That's essentially what it was. Some of it wasn't getting through, but maybe, how do you feel about that whole thing about the guy? I mean, he gave you, he's a friend. He gave you a lot. But you're, you're also comedians. Stealing jokes is no good, but also there's like a, I don't know, all the tensions in your heart about all that whole thing. How do you feel about it? Do you forgive him? Okay. Let's just, let's go back to the, it's very Shakespearean in a very weird way, right? Because there was some betrayal there. You know what I mean? There's a lot of drama when it comes to that situation. Again, also I'm a very loyal guy. Like I've had the same manager since the late nineties and I've had every gigantic manager want to sign me, even though my manager is great, right? She's not a big company, right? And there's only so much she can do. And maybe, you know what I mean? My career would have been different if I would have signed with a bigger management. I don't know, right? But I will never leave her, you know? I'll never leave my agent, Matt, you know? The people go, well, you're at CAA. That's amazing. The only reason why I'm at CAA is because of Matt Blake, you know? So there are certain loyalties that I have, the comedy store, you know? I mean, I generally play the comedy store mostly because my loyalties are with them. I don't know if that's a good trait, but it's just the way I am, right? I admire that, yeah. Okay. So when it comes to Carlos, you know, in the early, in the mid nineties is when I met him. I was a doorman at the Loyola Comedy Store. He brought me on the road. He introduced me to Matt Blake, my agent, right? And he bought me a car, you know, when I couldn't pay rent, you know, and I was really desperate. I could always go to him for money, you know? And he helped me out in so many different ways, right? So, you know, I really appreciate that. Pauly did the same thing. Anyway, and then all of a sudden, and I always knew going on the road with him that, number one, I found it odd that he never had a notebook, you know, usually, you know, comics riff with each other and they write things down, you know what I mean? Me, I'll get together with people and write, you know what I mean? I'll do a new joke night because I'm too scared to try it in front of a pack room or whatever it might be, okay? He never had, did that, right? And he had hours of material. And, you know, and, you know, a lot of it was derivative of other people's. He would sometimes hear a bit, change it to Mexican. Like, for instance, you know, if Paul Mooney had a joke about black people, he would change it, change it a bit. But premise-wise, it was always extremely too similar. And there are examples on the internet. So, you know, you can't, there's things that you can't really deny. And so when that whole thing happened, you know, it was like the Titanic. I mean, I was either going to sink with Carlos or survive. And I did the worst, not the worst thing, but I made a difficult decision and my decision was to cut ties. And, you know, over the years, I've felt very guilty about it in some respects, but, you know, there is always in my mind, I want to help him, you know, I want to help him reestablish some sort of a different, you know, route for him to go in terms of his career and whatnot. And so I had him on my podcast and it didn't go the way I wanted it to go. You know, I mean, I've always believed if he just fully just was apologetic and said, you know, I'm sorry for stealing in general, because we don't know specifically, I mean, there's specifics, you know what I mean? And I don't want to argue every case, you know? So I thought the healthiest thing to do was like in just in a broad way, listen, I stole, I'm so sorry. These are the reasons why. And I'm a different guy now, but it just never happened in that way. And so it's been difficult. So you don't think he's self-reflected looking in the mirror about mistakes of the past at all? Like, do you think he's aware? I think it's ego. You know, I think that he, for one reason or another, he, because there are probably jokes that he legitimately in his heart know that he wrote, that people are accusing of stealing, right? But, you know, it's like, we don't know, right? So it's like, just apologize for all of it, right? But he won't, he fights for every, you know, every point. And, you know, I just think that that's not the route. And he, I mean, he's always going to make money. He's, you know, he's never going to be what he should be, which is he's a powerful performer, you know, in terms of laughs. I mean, dude, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to follow him. He's a crusher, you know? So it's like, you know, it's really, he can act. He has all the skillsets. It's just that to me, he went about it in the wrong way. And it's sad to me. And, but I still always love him. And I've always will thank him for all the help that he's done. So you still got room in your heart for him. I have room for my heart for a lot of people, man, you know, Hitler. All right. What was the returning back to Tiger Belly? Cause you said, uh, Kaila basically started it. What's the origin story of Tiger Belly? You know, when I met her, oh, by the way, for people listening, in case you somehow don't know what Tiger Belly is a podcast, you do, it's an amazing podcast. You also do, uh, bad friends with, uh, Andrew Santino. Yeah. So on. Thank you so much for the plug. Appreciate it. I don't know. It's content. It's not the plug. It's a plug. Other things though. What's this? We're doing it. Uh, sure. Sure. Oh, what's your, uh, I'm on a show called. Okay. That's enough. Thank you. So, um, what, what, what's the name of the show you're on? I'm on a couple, a couple of shows. Oh, it's good for you. Netflix. It's no. Okay. I'm on sex in the city, the sex and the city. Yeah. I'm on reservation dogs. It's an FX show. Wait, sex in the city is not a joke. No, I am actually on sex in the city. Wait, are they rebooting the show? They did. Okay. It's called and just like that sex in the city. Oh, and you're on it. Yeah. Is this not, is this is not a joke? You can Google it. Okay. You know what I mean? Who do you play? I play a, a podcaster on it on the show. Sarah Jessica Parker's Carrie has a podcast and I'm her podcast partner. Oh, got it. Perfect. But then, but I'm also now they've my storyline. Anyway, it's fine. Do you sleep with somebody on there? I am married on the show. Yeah. They, they showed my, I married to a young lady on it. Yeah. All right. It felt like it, it felt like, you know, cause you don't think doing it. I look around going, are you sure I'm supposed to be on this? You know what I mean? I do feel that, but lo and behold, I'm on it. Yeah, you are. So, I'd started this way. So, you know, my friend, David Cho, do you know him? He's an artist. He used to have a podcast, right. Called DVD ASA and he used to have me on it and then Kalyla started doing it. And then when DVD SA ended, Kalyla was just like, let's start our own. And I was like, nah, nah, it's not going to work. So she goes, well, fine. I'm going to just do it on my own then. So she went and bought the equipment and we were living in a condo at the time in Hollywood and she would do them on her own. She did probably three on her own. And one day I was watching television, the door was open to the podcast room and I looked, turned around and she was literally like this, we had a table like this, she had the mic and all that stuff. And she was doing this, she was like slumped over like this. And I just kind of went, fuck it. So I walked in there and I go, all right, let's just do one. And that's how it started. And then chemistry was there immediately. Well, I already knew that she could do it because of DVD SA, right. So I already knew that she had the skillset. It's just all about, even in this conversation that you and I had today, right, there are gaps of like, oh, what else should we talk about? Right. Or like, I don't know what direction, right. And it's all about the old improv rule, adding information. Even if you don't know what you're going to say, just fill the dead space with something. So right now, if we had we stopped talking about something, I was like, when I asked you, did you grew up in Russia or Ukraine, right, was one of those dead spaces where I was just like, let's just throw it out there, see where this goes, right. And she has that ability to fill that dead space with information. That's all you need. Right. And she gets it in that way. So it's like when we, you know, started doing it at DVD SA, I just knew that she had the skillset. So when we started doing it for Tiger Belly, it was a given, you know, you know, she can do it there. I've had girlfriends that wouldn't be able to do it. What are you doing? You know, you have the skillset. You know, you're a sciencey guy. You spend all night long, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, doing whatever you're fucking doing. Right. But you have this innate ability to do it. Right. And I think it's a talent. Do you think it's a talent? Do you think it's, do you think you have talent? What are you doing? I know what you're doing, not adding information. I know what you're doing. That's a good bit. It's a good thing. I kept doing it and you kept filling the space. It's quite interesting. Yeah, that is true, huh? Cause you're just ending yourself, which is great. The improv thing. That was really impressive. Can I ask you a question? Sure. Have you ever had a guest on that didn't add information and then you had to keep doing it? Yeah, yeah. But it's part of the magic too. And sometimes I feel like, uh, they were actually giving me a gift of silence and I was stepping on it. Like, for example, I had a conversation with Jaco, you know, uh, Jaco Willink and every question I would ask him in the beginning, and I'm now better friends with him. There was the first time we met in that conversation and I would ask him these long questions of mumble and meander and so on. And he would answer with yes or no. And that's it. Yeah. And then, but he'd do it in a strong, like Viking like way. And I kept, I kept, uh, trying to go full like, uh, Bobby Lee style of create chaos and just keep talking and talking and so on, uh, as opposed to, I think he was inviting me more for the stoic type of silence, short sentences, that kind of conversation. So I fucked that up, I believe. Uh, but yeah, there's, uh, that not the adding information part, but the adding chemistry part where some it's usually ego where, where people don't realize there's a magic to be found between two humans, like genuinely it's like a first date, like that to truly listen to each other and to do the yes. And thing and have fun with it. Uh, when you have this energy, I'm way too important for this conversation that the, yeah, the information might be there, but the chemistry is not. So you have to remember that a lot of the podcasts I've done are like technical. Yeah. And so you could still say a lot of stuff about like what, what this project or whether it's physics or robotics or biology, you could say informational stuff, but the, the excitement, the magic is not there. But I often blame myself because like, if I'm excited, they'll be excited. I've learned this. So I'm learned. I'm not allowed to have like a, uh, bored face, which my, my face is naturally looks bored, but on the inside I'm excited. Yeah. So it might be a Russian thing. I don't know. It's not. Can I tell you why you're not boring your face? Right. Because, um, you have crow's feet. Oh, this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason why you have crow's feet is you smile a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You're very expressive. I know white dudes. I don't trust white dudes. Yeah. Right. With no crow's feet. Right. Because that means they don't, that they're not, you know, mean accessing that part of their face. Yeah. You know, which is why I hate when, um, this is an LA thing, especially, uh, women have talked to me about like Botox and they, they hate the crow. They, they hate not on me, on themselves. Oh, and they, they hate cause it's all wrinkles and stuff like that. And to me it's like, no, that's where the magic, the magic. It really is. Yeah. Uh, so, okay. So the interesting thing about tiger belly, is there some weird like aesthetic to it? It's really unique. It's not just good. It's also unique. Like in the way that Wes Anderson films are unique, like life aquatic. I don't know if you know those films. Yeah, I love those. I mean, those are my favorite films. Yeah. What is that? What is that? It, it's not just the chemistry between you and Koala. It's like, what is that? Can you, can you put a finger on it? Or is it just like, well, it's, it's essentially who I am. I like, I, that's what my, all my houses have looked like that. You know what I mean? Like I've always been a collector of designer toys. You know what I mean? I've always been a collector of, um, kind of weird artwork. Um, yeah, I've always been like that. You know, I, I like weird wallpaper. Like I'll get, instead of like going to a wallpaper store, what I'll do is I'll get artwork that I like from an artist, like, and go get the, you know, get their approval and go to a place and make wallpaper out of their artwork. You know what I mean? You can, like, if I wanted to Lex Friedman your face on my wall, I would ask for your permission and I would probably put your face on a gigantic wall. Like I would do stuff like that. That's awesome. Yeah. But I, can you do that? Yeah. You have my permission. You know, I think I will. Yeah. You know, I think I will just for the laugh. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I would do it. Big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But my point is, is that I, um, it's essentially who I am on the inside, I guess, in terms of like my, you know, I don't know, but I don't really, I've never, I'm glad you said that because I never even thought about that. Yeah. You just, you know, you just kind of do it like this, you know, because all your podcasts have this black ominous thing. You're, you know, you're, you're wearing a black suit that you're, you have a specific thing too. It's like, but I don't really think people ask me like, why do you wear a suit? I really don't, I just feel good in it. Yeah. Just who I am. And the reason why my podcast looks the way I do is because I feel comfortable in that environment. And it, you know, like you, I don't try to think too much about what I'm doing on Tiger Belly or even bad friends, right? Because when you start thinking about it and go, we should do this segment and I should, you know, do it this way or this podcast does it this way. So why, you know, no, I just show up. I keep my mind open and I do the best I can. I add information like we talked about and I just keep talking. Right. And I'm being, I try to be authentically myself. Like right now, you know, I had this fear when I was, I was far, I shit in your fucking bathroom, man. Yeah. Because I was so scared. Out of fear. Yeah. And like, you know, I was like kind of nervous because I, you know, this whole week and it wasn't anticipating coming here. And I watched the Mark Norman one. I watched the Yanis one to see, you know, how tonally and last night my girlfriend just looked at me and just goes, just show up. Yeah. Colin knows who I am. Dude, you think that, first of all, let me ask you something. Yes. You think I have the day, you know, I'm busy. I'm to drive all the way over here to West Hollywood to do your fucking thing. Why would I do that? Yeah. Because we are a well aware of who you are and we like you. Thank you. God. And we want you on ours. I would love, I would love that as a, I mean, that's, that's, that's the reason I'm doing this is just to get on your pocket. Awesome. Yeah. It's funny. Cause I just mentioned to you offline, I got a chance to talk to Oliver Stone and he asked me this thing, which is, you know, how many listeners does this thing get all that kind of stuff. And I don't even pay attention to that. So it's like, I just don't a little bit. So you do don't arrow extensions in my browser. I don't see the views, the number of views. Yeah. Don't pay attention. Did you know that like some of your YouTube videos on interviews and stuff have over a million? That I know. I know, I know like loosely that like it bleeds through, but it's, it's not part of my conscious, like, um, thing I think about. I'm very, I, I've just seen it destroy people's minds where they're no longer thinking creatively. They're not, they don't feel good if something they do doesn't get as much as attention as they thought it should. It just can destroy you even though it's good. It could be great stuff you create that nobody, everybody ignores, but it was still great. It is, it is still great. And, uh, sort of letting that negatively affect your mind is a, I don't know. I've seen it destroy people. So I'm very nervous about that. It's like that old saying never live in the results. It's like, if I, if I podcast to make, I'd like initially, honestly, when I did Tiger Billy, we made no money for the first couple of years. Like not enough to put a dent. I couldn't buy anything like, you know, nice or anything. Um, it was, um, just side money. You know what I mean? I could buy some shoes once a month or whatever. Right. And like I said before, um, I was, my career was in the shitter, right? So Tiger Billy wasn't like, this is going to be the thing. You know what I mean? It was just something to do with my girlfriend creatively, you know, and it just so happens that it did do all these things for me, right? Um, podcasting, but, um, yeah, I never, and still today I don't do it for any of those things. You know, I do it because, um, it's fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it is right. Yeah. Um, let me ask you, since you say why you love Kaila, why do you love slash Hey George, George Kimmel, your producer, what's your favorite thing about him? Let's say that positive thing. Positive. Cause I, cause you know, it's like, you know, I don't want to give them compliments, but you know, I'll try. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try. Um, have you actually, I don't think you've publicly ever said, I don't think I have either. So I'm going to get, I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to give it a real go. Okay. Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, when it comes to money, when it comes to responsibility, obviously this is a business now for you and me. It is, you know, it's, it's a side business. But it's a business and, um, you want to be able to trust the people that are running it. And I have 100% trust in everything that he does in terms of financial things, in terms of technical things, in terms of all of it, you know, I mean, merchandise and I have 100% belief in him. I, and that's rare, you know, to find someone like that. And I think that's the biggest thing that I've ever heard from him is that he's a great guy. And that's rare, you know, to find someone like that. Um, also at the end of the day, I know his heart and he really is a great guy. He, there's nothing about him. Like for instance, you know, he was over the other day and I go, you know, I bought this key wooden thing that some people have, but I don't have it. So I just, you know, I go, Hey, can you figure this out? And he goes, yeah, I got it. You know what I mean? Like, he's just that guy. Yeah. You know, um, he's also, but, but there is a part of me and this is probably wrong, but there's a part of me that feels like I kind of made him. Yeah. He'd be nothing without you. That's not what I'm saying. Well, I didn't fucking say that. That's the way I heard it. And it's probably wrong, right? Cause he did all the things that he has in his life. He did on his own, right? But still for some reason, he'd be nothing without you. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. So basically like, cause when I met him, I was a part of this, um, YouTube studio called maker studios and he was just a producer there and that's how I met him. And when he left maker, he came to us and he wasn't a podcast producer. And now he has this big company. He produces a bunch of podcasts, you know, and he has a bunch of employees and he has a nice business, you know, and I feel like I had a lot to do with it. So both the competence and the good heart. Yeah. What about Gilbert? Yeah. Gilbert is a godsent as well. You know, I don't know if, because of, let me ask you this, because you're a science guy, this is an interesting question for me. Um, do you believe just the universe gives you certain things at the right moment, at the right time? Do you believe that there is a mechanism out there where it's just, we're just a part of this machine that's kind of like almost as if things are just happening the way it's supposed to happen. Or do you think there's just these random things that are occurring and the word just it's chaos in that way? I don't know from a science perspective, because I wouldn't be able to explain it, but I do believe you mentioned karma. There's, there's a karma thing. It just, if you put love out there in the world, like certain doors open in a certain kind of way, like they're almost waiting for you and then you walk through them. So yes, in that way, I believe that it just, it feels like, um, not everything is like a basic like billiard ball model of like, you have to fight for everything. You could just generally be cool to people and kind to people and certain opportunities just pop up at the right moment. More specifically though, you know, so for instance, let's suppose like Gilbert, for instance, he just showed up at my house one day. I didn't know who he was. I had a fight night and a friend brought him, right? This is right when Kalyla and I were starting Tiger Belly, right? And in conversation, he was like, we didn't know how to engineer. We didn't have an engineer for our podcast and that night he was like, you know, I know how to do it. Right. And if I hadn't met him that night, he just wouldn't, I don't know if it would be as good. It would be completely different. And I really believe that we were, we were met, we met him that night for a reason, you know, so you don't believe that it's complicated. I believe that for love and these kinds of things, but I don't believe that as much for building a team, but that's the engineering thing. I think that's the, the artist in you. I'm less of an artist. I think artists thrive in the chaos of it. So it's not only that you guys met at that time is you didn't probably ask in detail about his qualifications or didn't, didn't go through a rigorous thing. You just dove in and figured it out on the fly. I think that's the, that's sort of the artist ethic. I think with like, if you're doing a startup or engineering, there's a little bit more rigor in the selection process. But because the same with, with Rogan, Jamie just walked up to him. Jamie Vernon. Yeah, he just walked up to the same kind of situation and they made it, you know, both, both of you have one of the best podcasts in the world. And so it's like, how did that, what? Yeah, I, so I believe that it's very strange. Yeah, strange. Or maybe it's just like cool people hang out with cool people. So you kind of collide. But that's not true because they're, cause that's not true because with bad friends, for instance, right. I've had 12 people before Andrew Santino that had asked me to do one with me. Right. And, you know, they just was, it wasn't, didn't want to do it. Yeah. You know, um, with Andrew though, it happened kind of organically and in, in, in a way that was almost like in my heart meant to happen in a weird way. That's a weird combination by the way. So why did, why was that the sticky one? Andrew, cause you have a lot of comedian friends. Why Andrew? Because number one, we both know just instinctually without even talking about it, that in many ways we're polar opposites in terms of like energy, right? He's more aggressive. I also know I respond good with alpha males, you know what I mean? Because I'm more of a follower, you know what I mean? Or sensitive in that way. But in many ways I am an alpha male in certain areas of my life, you know? Yeah. Well, you know, when it comes to smashing doc, what's up? You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, so we both knew instinctually that that in that way, our chemistry worked right. And also in terms of style and all that stuff is completely just, it was just an organic given to us. Yeah. Yeah. But you trust yourself with power. You play dictators. What do you mean? Do I? Like, cause I feel like you would be, cause you said you're not an alpha male, but in many ways, when you smash what's up and you winked at me, would you, what do you think about that? If I give you absolute power, would you be able to, what would you, how would you change? What does absolute power mean? Like you said to me, listen, you are going to be the dictator of planet earth and anything that you want is at your means. Yeah. Including violence, sex. No, I would not because even in my personal life now, there are things that I could do, right? That I have power, I guess that I don't participate in. Right. So why would I do it if I had ultimate power? I mean, because there's always, there's still a moral and ethics that I have, right? That I don't feel comfortable with. Right. So you wouldn't even enjoy it. No, I mean, I think that there would be no, if I had ultimate dictatorship on planet earth, there would be no violence. I mean, I would not cause any wars, right? But if there's an uprising, yeah, I'd have to quell it. That's how it starts, Bobby. You quell it. Don't, don't uprise. Right. But so first you're going to censor everybody who wants to even suggest the idea of uprising. And then, and then one person gets out of line, they run a red light. Okay. That's, that's, but you ever get angry in traffic? Yeah. I get rageful. So if you could murder that person. No, no, no, no. Nobody has to know. No, I would give them cancer. But I would not. So much worse. I know, I know. Okay. No, but no, but here, no, this is an interesting thing. Cause I want to, I want to, I want to elaborate. All right. So the thing, if I was the dictator of the planet earth, right. Um, there would be a reason why people would uprise, right? So give me a reason because I would give them food, shelter, right. And all the things I feel like that people would desire, right. But, but you're right. But you're right. Because they're, you're right. I think this is what you're talking about. So here's the deal. So there are certain things that I do believe in, right. Like for instance, it's a very controversial thing, right. In terms of a woman's right, right. In terms of abortion, right. I feel like as a male, I, it's not my body. So I don't really even have an opinion or I shouldn't even have a voice on it. Because, you know, I mean, a woman, like it's like if they created laws, if white people, men, created laws for Koreans in America, like you don't have the right to, right. So it's like, so if I was, if I was a dictator, right, I would just be like, yeah, women have all the rights in the world, right. And they, you know, and I think abortion should be legal throughout the planet earth, right. But there will be people out there that will believe that no, you know what I mean? We, you know, we're pro-life. So you would put them in jail. So that's right. So I think as a dictator, you, there was no way to be able to please everyone. So there will be an uprising. So yeah, fuck it. I don't want to do it. Okay. Would you do it? Uh, not, no, there's several loaded questions. Would I enjoy it? No. Would I do it? No, because I don't trust my own mind under power. Like I'm well aware that in situations where I have control, it's, it's as much a freedom as it is a burden. Like it can change you. I'm very nervous about that. Like how much, uh, uh, how much the ego starts to flare up, how much, just like the less, uh, pleasant things about your nature come up, you know, I have a temper to like, I have all that kind of stuff and, uh, you have, I'm sure you have a bit of a temper. Yeah. I have a temper. Yeah. And so whenever nobody is able to as clearly call you out on your bullshit, that's, that could be a problem. Do you have this, when you, when you rage out and you have a temper, is there like, like either a day later or a couple of hours later, is there a shame and regret that comes along with that or no? Yeah, no, no, no, of course. Yeah. During it. Yeah. During it too. Yeah. Shame and regret. Yeah. Yeah. And then, but I try to make sure it's like love and respect are felt always underneath the whole thing. Um, but still it's like human emotion. You can't control it. And if you give an absolute power, you start to lose your sense of the world. You start to be unable to see what is right and wrong. You think everything is right. You start to be, um, have a distorted view of who is doing the wrong things in the world. And then also distrust. Well, that has to do more with how absolute power is usually attained because when you're in the seat of power, everybody first on the outside, but then in your inner circle, you start to distrust them. You start to believe that they're going to, they want your power. So the people you love, the people that were source of so much beauty for you previously, uh, like even like your, your girlfriend, wife, your closest lifelong friends, you start to suspect them. I don't want to live like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're often right to suspect them. So you think they change a little bit too. They changed too. Yeah. They start to get a little bit taste of that power. Yeah. It was the interesting thing is a bunch of people in the, in Hitler's inner circle at the very end, betrayed him too in search of their own power. Wow. Fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating. This power thing. Uh, let me ask you a bunch of ridiculous questions real quick. Okay. If you can be someone else for a day, someone alive today who you haven't yet met, who would you be for one day? You get to be, could be female, male, that'd be a lot. I always wanted to see what a pop star was like. Which one would you go? Like Harry Styles. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm Harry Styles, right, I just want to see like, would like to go to the Beverly center. Okay. As Harry Styles. As Harry Styles. Yeah. Or Coachella. Just walk around Coachella as Harry Styles. You know what I mean? We get a lot of attention and it's a very specific kind of attention. Yeah. I just want to see what that's like. I want to be able to, because the thing is, is that I want to be able to like see what it's like in terms of how easy would it be to get a hot chick. Oh, I thought you meant to like get a table at a restaurant. No, no, no. No, that, you know, I can still do now as Bobby Lee, you know, but as Harry Styles, or I want to see what it'd be like and how that would go about. Like how easy it would be. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like, could you just walk up to the hottest chick at Coachella and start making out with them? Yeah, that's interesting. Just to see. Just to see if you could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know as Bobby Lee, no, no, no, no. Could you? No, you couldn't do that. No, no. It's an interesting reason. So if you were the last person on earth, like everybody disappeared, everybody's dead. What would your day look like? What would your days look like? What would you do? That's interesting, because if I was able to figure out the, you know, electricity, I think my days would be like, God, why didn't you learn about electricity? Oh, yeah. Right. You realize how little you know. Yeah. Yeah. Why didn't you learn about these things? Because now you're going to die. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I think the first thing obviously is no, let me ask you something. Why? Now, if you're saying that I'm the last person on planet Earth because there was an alien invasion and there's predators and things that I have to fucking look out for. That's one way. But if I'm just all of a sudden I wake up and just everyone's gone and everyone's dead. But there's no threat. There's no threat. Then what I would do is I go, well, let's find a place to live. Not probably my house. Right. So I'd probably live in a place where it's closest to grocery stores. Right. So I would get food and stuff first. Right. And then secondly, it's like, you know, I'll probably go, you know what I thought about? I would probably go to San Marcos, San Diego Vista because that's where the real doll factory is. And just fuck all of them? No, no, no. I would have to grab like six of them because I'm going to get lonely. Six of them for a variety. You wouldn't be monogamous with one doll. No, and I also would carry out like the vagina parts. You know what I mean? And all the accessories and stuff. Right. And then go back to L.A. probably. Oh, why do I stay down there? You could stay in the factory. No. Yeah. Maybe the factory. And then but I think thirdly, I would run out of electricity. Right. And I think, you know, I mean, my demise would come slow. Well, you could find sources of electricity because nobody's using it. So I don't know how to turn the machines on. Like, I don't know how to go to the fucking. Yeah. What do you call it? The place where it's I don't even know what it's called. The place where you don't mean we're in all the energy is generated. Yeah. Generators. Where do I go? Yeah. It's good questions. All right. Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones? The past or the future? No, I mean, I can't lose my memories. All of them. That makes me who I am. But you wouldn't be able to make new ones. You wouldn't be. So you'd be living in the moment. Now stop with all the all the. But you did say you're in a really good place. So maybe this is a pretty good set of memories you got. You got all the trauma. Yeah. I mean, you just that's a nightmare. You just created a nightmare for me. That's a nightmare. The choice. The choice is a nightmare. Yeah. You're you're fucked either way. It's already beautiful. It's a kind of death not being able to make new memories. That's it. That's all you got. Yeah. You get to relive the memories you have as a science guy. Let me ask you a question. Sure. Are you afraid to die? Yeah, of course. I'm not. Of course, I am. I think about it every day. Yeah. I yeah, I meditate on my on my mortality all the time. Right. It doesn't make any sense. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. And because are you terrified because of the unknown or because you believe it's nothingness. The unknown. But my best guess is that it's something like nothingness and that nothingness is so terrifying. Yeah. The infinity of the nothingness. Yeah. Yeah. But Ram Dass says and this is something that I always you know, Ram Dass. Yeah. Ram Dass says he believes that death is like removing a tight shoe. Like release. Yeah. Like that could be it too. I think maybe when we die, that's initially maybe the last feeling that we have is release. And then if that happens and there's nothingness, I think that's cool. Well, no, that that has to be the last feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has to do more with the actual feeling of death, which I think some people are afraid of the experience to make sure it's it's it's it's one of release, like you said. Yeah. But the existential aspect that you're no longer exist, like all the shit you're doing kind of assumes you'll live forever. Right. Like you don't really like all your career and all that kind of stuff. You probably will be forgotten. I know. Like completely erased. Yeah. So all you have is a few moments in this life, a few moments of joy, a few moments of trauma, of suffering. And that's it. I know. But here's the and you're wasting your time today talking to me and you have you have a few such moments. You do a couple hundred more podcasts and then you'd be dead. No, because this right here, dude, right, is human. Number one, I walked through a little fear today, so I learned something. Right. I'm talking to a science guy, which I never thought I could. You're the first scientist ever talked to. Yeah. Right. You get a diploma at the end of this. Oh, good. And there's I believe that there was a connection. Right. Not in a gay way. Not in a gay way. Non gay. I was connection. Right. In certain circumstances, I probably would blow you. Would you in a certain circumstances, like if we're the last two people on planet Earth and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. But yeah, those are probably the only ones. But or like somebody put a gun to my ass. You gotta blow. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm turned on right now. Yeah. Let me ask you one question. Go ahead. What do you think is the meaning of life? My fucking that's the last one. Yes, this last one. Yeah. What do you think? Why are we here? Why are you here? Why are we here? Does any of it make sense? I think ultimately here's the what's why I like life in general is what we talked about. Like we view death, there is a mystery there. There's a wonderment to it. Right. So it's like when I walk outside, you know, and I look at the trees and I look at buildings that man made these buildings and, you know, I look at the universe and I look in the sky and I don't really completely comprehend what's going on. Right. It's just so in. I mean, all of all of it. Right. And I don't have any answers. Right. But that, I think, is what the meaning of life is, is to be in awe of it and the wonder of it all. And it's just amazing. Yeah. Just open your eyes to the wonder of it. Yeah. While we're still here. Yeah. Bobby, it's a huge honor to finally meet you. I've been a fan for many, many years. It's an honor that you would even consider blowing me in the correct kind of circumstances. I think you would blow me in the right circumstances. I think that's the definition of love. Bobby, thanks so much for talking to me, brother. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Bobby Lee. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Kurt Vonnegut. Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh since there's less cleaning to do afterward. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
 If you and I were able to go into Skyrim
 and walk around and live together,
 would we make love?
 No, no, no, no, man.
 Don't go there.
 Okay.
 No, no, no, no, no.
 Because we like girls, man.
 The following is a conversation with Bobby Lee,
 a standup comedian and podcaster
 and one of the funniest humans on the planet.
 And just someone who brings joy to my heart
 with a mix of non-sequitur absurdity, darkness,
 and the singing voice of an angel.
 In all seriousness, Bobby is just a beautiful human being.
 I've been a fan of his for 20 years
 since his time on Matt TV to today
 with this podcast, Tiger Belly,
 that he does with his other half,
 the love of his life, Kalala,
 and the podcast, Bad Friends,
 that he does with Andrew Santino.
 This is the Lex Friedman podcast.
 To support it, please check out our sponsors
 in the description.
 And now, dear friends,
 here's Bobby Lee.
 I've been a fan of yours for many, many years.
 I think you're one of the funniest people in the world.
 I've been a fan since Matt TV days 20 years ago
 to today with Tiger Belly.
 So given that, given your status as a world-class comedian,
 how did it feel that you were not invited
 to Andrew Schultz's wedding and I was?
 Well, you were there?
 Yeah, I was there.
 I was the least funny person there.
 And the whole time I was thinking,
 isn't that funny that Bobby Lee's not here?
 Yeah.
 All my life, I always felt like people didn't like me
 and they didn't want to invite me to things.
 I think that's fundamentally the reason why I do what I do.
 So it really did hurt a lot.
 And I had resentments.
 I did some revenge fantasies
 about how I'm gonna get revenge on him and stuff.
 Yeah, on him specifically.
 Him specifically.
 Like have a big wedding, invite everyone,
 accept him, stuff like that.
 And then just write him a letter like,
 see, that's how it feels or whatever.
 But instead of that, because I've been therapy and stuff,
 I'm just kind of like trying to let it go.
 What'd you do there?
 This right here, why'd you do that?
 I forgot to start the timer.
 And now it starts.
 You wanna start over?
 Yeah, let's do this.
 Let's do it again.
 Take two.
 No, you still feel like an outsider?
 Your exception is successful, me, don't you?
 You still feel?
 Yeah.
 I'm doing a Netflix show tonight with Andrew Santino
 at the Comedy Store and this and that.
 But like last night, I just felt like I wasn't a part of,
 in fact, on stage I go, I even mentioned that I go,
 Netflix, they don't like me.
 You know what I mean?
 And I just say things like that.
 They're not true.
 And this is something that I wanna correct with myself
 because I have this internal dialogue
 that's based on just the past.
 And 99% of the things that go on in my mind aren't true.
 And I'm just at a point in my life
 where I don't wanna live like that anymore.
 Really?
 Because I'm the same way,
 I'm deeply self-critical all the time.
 And that's kind of an engine that drives you to do stuff.
 Yeah, but it doesn't give you the kind of freedom
 that I would like.
 Don't you wanna be truly free?
 Free from your mind?
 Free from negative thoughts?
 No, I'm free part of the day.
 Some of the day I spend being extremely self-critical
 and that drives you
 because I'm afraid I'll become ultra lazy otherwise.
 Because I love life, I love being comfortable,
 I love just relaxing, I need very few things in life.
 And so I'm afraid I'll just get super lazy.
 Are you a minimalist?
 Yeah.
 So if I went to your house in Austin, do you have a couch?
 I recently got a, this is the first couch I've gotten ever
 because the guests were complaining
 because I also record the podcast there.
 The guests were complaining there's nowhere to sit.
 I have no chairs, no couch.
 I sleep on the floor, like a mattress is on the floor.
 Not out of principle, I think,
 out of some kind of minimalist momentum.
 Minimalist momentum.
 So we're the opposite in that way then.
 Oh, so you like stuff.
 I'm not a hoarder, but,
 because I can throw things away,
 but I have a shopping addiction, I think.
 Like when I'm on the road,
 like I was in Oklahoma for two weeks,
 I just, I bought a bunch of stuff, you know what I mean?
 And then, oh my God, I went to Todd Snyder
 and I bought, I bought these shoes.
 You know?
 Because you know, I-
 But you're wearing them.
 So they're actually, you're using them
 and they're giving value to your life.
 That's awesome.
 Yeah, but this is the last time I'm gonna wear these.
 This is one time.
 This is like a wedding.
 Yeah, it's a one time.
 It's a red carpet dress.
 Who's the designer, do you know?
 I don't know anything about-
 What are you wearing, Bobby?
 I don't know what I'm wearing,
 but because I'm on a native show called Reservation Dogs,
 right, I just wanna get into the spirit of things.
 That's your-
 Yeah, this is,
 because if I was ever like native
 and I was in a tribe back in the day, you know what I mean?
 I would have been a gatherer.
 Yeah, I'm not a hunter.
 No, I'm gonna weave baskets with the ladies.
 I wanna pick berries with the ladies.
 You wouldn't be the chieftain.
 No, no, no.
 And I would make, after the hunt,
 I would probably make some,
 so some of the guys make love to me.
 Oh.
 Yeah, because I'm gay,
 just because I'm eating away.
 Yeah, you have to.
 Yeah, yeah, I want them to like me.
 There's a power hierarchy,
 and you gotta know your place in the hierarchy.
 Yeah, you're alpha male then.
 I don't even know what that means.
 Joe Rogan.
 Joe Rogan is the definition of alpha male?
 To me, yeah.
 If there was a picture of alpha male in the dictionary,
 it would be Joe Rogan.
 It would be Joe Rogan?
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 Yeah.
 So you hoard stuff, okay.
 Yeah, yeah.
 But you can throw in, when was the last time,
 let me call you out on that.
 When was the last time you threw away something
 that's actually valuable?
 Valuable.
 Like something valuable to you or valuable in general?
 Most things that I buy aren't valuable to me.
 There are things that are valuable to me
 that are like keepsakes for my family and stuff
 that I will keep forever.
 So like in terms of like an old photo of my father
 or whatnot, so those kind of things I keep.
 But when it comes to like, you know,
 Aviator Nation sweats,
 like if somebody came over to my house and goes,
 hey, can I have six of those sweatshirts or whatever?
 I'd be like, yeah, go take it.
 Okay.
 And my brothers come over to my house
 and she's done a clearance, you know what I mean?
 Like I'm gonna take this, this, this.
 I generally really don't have a problem with.
 So the self-critical voice is serving no purpose
 in terms of, because you're pretty, you know,
 I'm a fan of yours,
 so you're known to be a little bit lazy sometimes.
 100% lazy.
 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
 So the self-critical voice,
 don't you think that it's serving a purpose
 and fighting off the laziness,
 beating off the laziness?
 The self-critical voice that I have,
 I've been able to compartment,
 how do you say it?
 Compartment.
 Yeah, however you say it.
 Yeah.
 You're free.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
 Put it in a compartment.
 Yeah. Right?
 And I'm able to like, I'm a good avoider.
 I'm good at avoidance.
 So for instance, right now to avoid,
 I've been playing Stardew Valley.
 You know what that is?
 No.
 It's a phone game or?
 No, it's a, you can play it on your Switch,
 but it's on the Xbox and it's a farming simulation game.
 And so I like to farm, you know what I mean?
 And so in playing video games and doing stuff like that,
 distracts me from what really is going on.
 Okay, you've mentioned elsewhere
 in terms of video games, Elder Scrolls.
 Yeah, did you play that?
 Yeah, of course.
 It's probably my favorite game.
 If I could live in a world,
 you played Morrowind and Skyrim.
 I played Oblivion.
 Oblivion.
 I played a little bit of Morrowind,
 but I didn't like the graphics back then,
 but I really played the, can I swear on this podcast?
 Yeah.
 I played the fuck out of Oblivion and Skyrim.
 Like eight characters, played it all the way through.
 I have to do all the quests, that type of thing.
 What's your favorite thing about those games?
 Why did you spend so much time in that world?
 Because I like games that you can grind.
 What do you mean by grind?
 So like Stardew Valley, for instance, right?
 There's a lot of-
 Back to the farming simulation.
 Back to farming, right?
 It's the same thing as Skyrim, the reason why I like it,
 is that there's a lot of like,
 I have to collect a lot of these things.
 You know what I mean?
 I have to just constantly pick things up.
 You know what I mean?
 Like for instance, in Skyrim,
 there's a mushroom called blisterwort mushroom
 that you can pick and then you can make it into
 some sort of formula, right?
 Potion.
 Yeah, the potion, yep.
 So I would spend like literally human 12-hour days
 just going to every cave
 and picking up as much blisterwort as I could.
 Like that kind of grinding.
 You know what I mean?
 Yeah.
 So you're actually the randomly generated quests
 that they just do, designed for people like you?
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 You don't get bored, that's the fun.
 Yes, that's the fun for me.
 Okay.
 Yeah, there's always something to do and I find,
 like when you play a game that's linear,
 like there's certain games where you have to go this way,
 right?
 I don't like games like that.
 I like open world games where I can make choices
 and I can grind if I want.
 Yeah, yeah.
 And then you can actually stay in that world
 if you could live in that world,
 in the Elder Scrolls world.
 That's how I feel.
 In reality or become like an animated thing in there?
 Oh no, say like virtual reality.
 We're moving towards that direction.
 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
 If you look at Skyrim, you mentioned graphics,
 it's become, it's starting to get realistic.
 Yeah.
 Like I'll sometimes just walk around,
 I mean it's been a while,
 but I'll just walk around in Skyrim.
 Yeah.
 You can, there's code you can turn off enemies
 and you just walk around.
 Really?
 Yeah, you just listen to music and just walk around.
 That's what you did?
 Yeah, yeah.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 Yeah, I would do that.
 Wouldn't you do that?
 Would you do it with me?
 Yeah, sure.
 We would have a house together?
 Oh, I mean live, I thought walk around.
 No, no, no.
 No, if you and I were able to go into Skyrim, right?
 And walk around and live together.
 Would we make love?
 No, no, no, no, man.
 Don't go there.
 Okay.
 No, no, no, no.
 Because we like girls, man.
 That's right.
 It's not gay.
 You told me it's not gay.
 Yeah, it's not, yeah, yeah, yeah.
 All right, so you and I would.
 I would hunt, you would gather.
 But in that world.
 There's no hunting.
 Yeah, but there is hunting.
 I would have the, because we don't have to find a bandits.
 We have to fight.
 I'm not gonna gather a bandit.
 I'm gonna hunt them.
 But I thought you said it's all about the potion.
 You don't need the bandits.
 Okay, well, we could do this.
 You could be the guy that like defends our place, right?
 I'll gather all the blister ward, all the white caps,
 all the mushrooms, I'll get all the food.
 You know what I mean?
 I'll go to Whiterun.
 Remember Whiterun?
 Yeah.
 Right, or Winterhold.
 And I'll do all the like quests
 that have nothing to do with, you know what I mean?
 So no dragons though?
 No.
 No dragons, but we would have a banquet.
 We'd invite the Dark Dark Brotherhood.
 Yeah. Right.
 The Fighters Guild, we'd definitely invite them.
 Mages Guild, we'd invite them.
 Are you a thief kind of guy?
 I'm a thief guy.
 Yeah, I'm a thief for life.
 Yeah, I'm a thief guy for life.
 And you still wouldn't invite Andrew Schultz to that.
 No, no, no.
 What a piece of shit though, huh?
 Because let me just say something, okay?
 I just wanna get back to that, okay?
 Okay, sure.
 So I met him at the Montreal Comedy Festival
 and him and I are kindred souls.
 We really connected.
 Yeah.
 And he did my podcast.
 He's done it several times.
 I've done his.
 We've like communicated on the phone, this and that.
 And to me, and then he invites Whitney Cummings,
 which Whitney is a good friend of mine.
 But what I'm saying is that I know Andrew
 as well as Whitney knows him.
 I don't think that Whitney knows him more than I do, right?
 What if it was a competition?
 Like it was a tie, you know, like Bobby Lee versus Whitney.
 Yeah.
 In what way do you think she's better
 and what way do you think you're better?
 I think it's all about gender optics.
 Okay.
 So he's a comedian.
 He has all these alpha males coming and he's like,
 all right, I have one more seat left.
 Whitney or Bobby, but Bobby is,
 although I don't think there was a lot of Koreans there.
 So he could have used that card.
 This is true.
 Right, but I think he went for, you know,
 Whitney is a woman, it's better for optics.
 Okay, so she was a diversity hire for the wedding.
 Yeah.
 I see.
 It was pretty fun.
 It was pretty, I have to say, I don't,
 it was Joe Rogan.
 Yeah, I know.
 His wife.
 I get it.
 Yeah.
 And then Whitney.
 Are those the only comedians that were there?
 I spent a whole time talking to Joe.
 I think, no, I don't think there was that many comedians.
 So I'm kind of joking about,
 it was a pretty, pretty small wedding.
 Yeah.
 What do you talk to Joe about?
 First of all, we're both grapplers.
 So we talk a lot about Jiu-Jitsu.
 We talk a lot about-
 I'm a grappler.
 Are you?
 I was on the wrestling team in high school.
 Yeah, I know.
 I know this.
 As a grappler, to you, if I don't know Jiu-Jitsu,
 is there only one kind of grappling that you like?
 Yeah, there's levels to this game, I think.
 I just talked about, no, no, no, there's nothing more.
 That's a surprising fact that you've dropped that.
 It almost feels like a lie,
 because you've said that before
 that you were a wrestler in high school.
 It doesn't make sense.
 Well, it's funny that you say that,
 because, and I'm gonna cause a little controversy here.
 Yeah.
 But Joe Rogan, one time came to me,
 when he lived in LA, this is years ago,
 he said, you're a liar.
 You've never grappled.
 And I go, yes, I did.
 You're a fucking liar.
 No, you didn't.
 And at that time, I didn't have any photos to prove it.
 But if you look at my Instagram, I have photos.
 That I was grappling.
 Of you as a young man, dressed in a singlet or what?
 On the wrestling team.
 On the wrestling team.
 If you go to the fucking, sorry,
 if you go to my fucking high school, you're right,
 I was on the wrestling team for three years.
 I'm not gonna go to your high school,
 so is there actual photo evidence of you?
 Yeah, you know what, you're being like Rogan right now,
 and I, you know, it really is.
 How do we know it's not Photoshopped?
 Oh, you be the judge then, dude.
 Okay, so this is my brother and me in high school
 on the wrestling team.
 Which, oh, you are, yeah, you are.
 I'm the bottom.
 That's my brother to the left.
 I mean, yeah, to your right.
 Oh, handsome.
 Yeah, I'm not as, yeah.
 How much do you weigh?
 Wow.
 At the time I weighed, I was on the 105 weight category.
 Yeah. Yeah.
 But, so I was also on the tennis team.
 What people don't realize is that I'm very athletic.
 Okay. Yeah, yeah.
 And I resent the fact that people think that I'm not,
 because I'm doughy.
 You're an athlete, so, which is very surprising to me.
 Why?
 That, so I was invited to the wedding.
 Yeah, yeah.
 I've also been on Joe Rogan's podcast.
 He's a big fan of yours.
 I know, I love Joe.
 No, Joe, when Joe's, and I see to the we hogging stuff,
 we talk, I love him.
 I just talked to him today, said I'm talking to you.
 This is hilarious.
 So why, oh, you hog him, and you just never.
 It just hasn't worked out.
 Like, I don't like, I don't want to go like, hey,
 because I don't want the rejection.
 So it's like, if I go, right, hey, can I do it?
 And he goes, I don't know, man, I'm busy, man.
 We don't, we got, I got a lot.
 I mean, maybe later, you know, I don't want that.
 So if, you know, if, if he said, hey, are you available
 Thursday, this day, fly out, do my podcast,
 I would 100% do it.
 And that hasn't happened yet.
 So interesting.
 Why is it interesting?
 I don't know, cause you're, like I said,
 you're one of the funniest people in the world.
 That'd be a great conversation.
 It's just funny it hasn't happened yet.
 Well, it's like this conversation.
 It's like, I just learned how to tell time.
 Yeah.
 Not like, I know how to read digital.
 You showed up on time today.
 No, digital.
 I know how to write digital, obviously,
 but in terms of the hand clock,
 I just learned that six months ago.
 How to operate a hand clock?
 To read a hand clock.
 Hand clock, okay.
 Not that I, obviously I'll be able to absorb the information.
 I just, I'm one of those guys that just refused
 to learn things if I just.
 What did you think it was before?
 I would look at it and I would try to sometimes,
 like if I was at a train station,
 Yeah.
 And I would look at those old clocks.
 Yeah.
 I would look at it and try to guess.
 And I would kind of go, I think this is the way,
 you know what I mean?
 But like not fully, you know what I mean?
 Really grass.
 So the way ancient people looked up at the sun
 to try to tell time,
 you looked at a clock to try to tell time.
 Right.
 Like for instance, like we don't look at the sun, right?
 So to me it was an obsolete information to me.
 Because of digital.
 You already had digital.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
 And so that's somehow comparable to you
 going on the Joe Rogan.
 And you, because it's like, I don't know much about.
 Podcasting.
 No, podcasting I can,
 but in terms of like the singularity and all that stuff,
 like I know what it is, you know what I mean?
 When machines gonna be have consciousness.
 When is that gonna happen?
 Soon.
 Are you afraid of robots?
 See, if you were in Austin, I would show you some robots.
 Oh, I'd love to.
 Are you afraid of robots?
 No, I love it.
 You love robots.
 Oh yeah, yeah.
 In fact, I have this, I think to me,
 unless they become hostile
 and it becomes like the Terminator,
 which I think could happen, right?
 There'd be a Skynet, we have to bring it down, whatever.
 There's definitely going to be autonomous weapon systems.
 So a lot of the robotics research is being conducted,
 funded by the military.
 Wow.
 You know, the military industrial complex.
 I know what that is, yes.
 Yeah, so a lot of the cutting edge research is done,
 is funded by DOD, Department of Defense, DARPA and so on.
 So a lot of the robots will be used in war,
 but hopefully not most of consumer robotics
 will be in the home.
 I'm just trying to terrify you.
 No, no, no, but can I ask you this though?
 Sure.
 What you're saying to me is that as a lay person,
 is that in my lifetime,
 that machines will have consciousness.
 Oh, that I don't know.
 Computers.
 I'm one of the people,
 well, depending, you live dangerously,
 so I don't know how long you're going to live.
 So let's put, but I believe that consciousness, yes,
 could be engineered in a machine,
 or at least we can have machines that are human-like
 and we believe they have consciousness.
 Can I ask you one last question about it?
 Yes.
 But just one more.
 Will they have the smoothness of skin
 and will they look realistic?
 See, I'm one of those people that believes
 that visual appearance isn't the magic.
 So if you're blind,
 you can still have a connection with a person.
 People can fall in love with each other
 through just letters.
 So yeah, I know you're mocking me with your entire energy,
 but yes, I believe that part too.
 You're talking about sex bots
 is what you're probably getting.
 Okay, intimacy.
 Why would you?
 Just friends, friends,
 but you want to feel the smoothness of those.
 Yeah, like a guy.
 Just go, what's up, dude?
 And just rub his face.
 Just hug and kiss and come both cheeks kind of thing.
 I get what you're saying though, right?
 Obviously there's no soul, you're right.
 And I'm just curious to see.
 You're right, I was going with sex bots, but.
 Yeah, yeah.
 Have you seen Whitney Cummings' robot?
 Yeah, I've seen it.
 Okay, how did that make you feel?
 She's a beautiful girl, I just don't find her attractive.
 The robot or Whitney?
 I find the robot way more attractive.
 Yeah, if I had the choice robot.
 So you were turned on by the robot.
 See, I was surprised by the very thing you're saying,
 which is the realism of the skit.
 Like it was quite,
 they did a really good job on that robot.
 Oh, they did?
 The life, when it's animated, the life is not quite there.
 You can tell it's a robot, but just sitting there still,
 it has a lot of human-like elements, the texture.
 I don't know, it's quite fascinating.
 So they're getting there.
 They're getting there.
 But the funny thing about sex robots
 is most people that get sex robots,
 they don't get it for the sex, they get it for intimacy.
 Not sexual intimacy, but just somebody being there.
 It's the emotional connection, not the sexual.
 Yeah, I mean, I saw a long time ago a documentary
 about real dogs and people marrying them.
 Yeah.
 And what I was fascinated about is the cuddling,
 you know what I mean?
 And then watching TV together and stuff like that,
 which I find, I've just been able to find
 human girlfriends and stuff.
 So I'm good at it.
 That's really impressive.
 That's one of the reasons.
 Thanks, man.
 Yeah, thanks, man.
 Speaking of human girlfriends,
 I'd love your advice in this direction,
 but you have an amazing relationship with Kalyla.
 Yeah.
 So you two are very different.
 So you host the Tiger Brothers podcast together,
 but there's real love there.
 There's a real connection.
 What do you love most about Kalyla?
 Let's talk about love, Bobby Lee.
 Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a really pretty deep,
 I've never really gone down this path.
 We're gonna walk down that path together holding hands.
 It's one of those things where the first time I met her,
 it was almost as if I had known her all my life.
 It was really weird.
 You know what I mean?
 There was a trust there, you know what I mean?
 That was just fundamentally there that I could trust her
 and that I could, you know,
 when I look in the mirror
 and I see all my character defects and stuff,
 a lot of those things aren't necessarily things
 I wanna share with people
 because I don't wanna be judged or ridiculed.
 But with her, I felt comfortable showing those things
 and I think she feels the same way about her.
 And then secondly, she's funny.
 I mean, she made me laugh and she's hot.
 It's all, you know what I mean?
 The perfect, it was like a perfect combination of things.
 You know what I mean?
 One night we were in bed and I forgot what the joke was,
 but she really made me laugh one night.
 She was living in an apartment in Long Beach
 and I cackled, you know what I mean?
 And generally women don't make,
 I mean, not women I'm dating, comics do,
 don't make me cackle in that way.
 And then thirdly, she has,
 she's partly Asian.
 So it's like, you know, one time I dated a white girl
 and I invited her to Korea town.
 You're about to be racist?
 A little bit.
 Okay.
 Yeah, yeah.
 And what I love about Asian girls is
 they'll eat something first and ask what it is after,
 but white girls ask what it is before.
 What is this, right?
 But Kali was like, would eat the eyeball, eat everything,
 go, what did I just eat?
 I like that, you know what I mean?
 So it's like, and it reminds me of my mom in that way,
 in terms of like my mom growing up just to scare us
 and freak us out, we'd have a fish
 and she would eat the eyeball first to see a squirm.
 And as a kid that you thought was gross and weird
 and this and that, but it's like, you know,
 when Kali does it, it just kind of like, I don't know,
 it just makes me feel like at home in a weird way.
 It's a little act of fearlessness.
 I like that.
 Yeah.
 Just put in your mouth and figure it out.
 Yeah, that's what I like.
 And at the end of the day, she also,
 out of all my girlfriends,
 and this is gonna sound not strange, but hard to admit,
 but my career when I met Kali was in the shit box.
 I could not get anything going.
 And this is at the time where Ken Jeong,
 who's a very good friend of mine, very talented,
 was getting everything.
 And I just remember going, I can't even get an audition.
 Like I can't, I would go on the road, Lex,
 and I would fill half the room.
 I just couldn't sell tickets.
 And when I met her, I was just kind of like,
 maybe this is the, I had to find love
 and open up my world in that way.
 And she was the first girlfriend that I ever had
 that looked at me and saw the potential.
 And she said, no, this is not, doesn't feel right.
 You're so funny and you're so relevant to me
 and this is what we're gonna do.
 And so she started Tiger Belly.
 And then obviously I had the skillset to do it,
 but once Tiger Belly happened and then Andrew was like,
 let's do Bad Friends.
 And then now things are great.
 My career is, I'm too busy almost in a weird way.
 And I feel like she had a lot to do with,
 like for instance, before I met her,
 even if I would get an audition,
 I wouldn't go because I just wouldn't get it.
 In my head I was like, I'm not gonna get this.
 I've gone on a thousand of these
 and they just never hire me.
 But she was, so I just didn't go on them for years.
 And then she was the first girlfriend that said,
 no, I don't care if you don't get it.
 I just don't want you to be a pussy.
 And I want you to walk through fear.
 And so she would drag me to these fucking things
 and I for some reason would book them.
 You know what I mean?
 So, you know, in that way.
 She saw the potential of what you could be.
 But she loved you for who you are already.
 Yes.
 But also loved you for the potential that you could become.
 Yeah, and I'm lucky in that way.
 So on day one you could show her,
 you said you could show your flaws to her.
 Like you felt like you could be fragile with her?
 Well, I accidentally farted.
 Yeah, or day one?
 On day one.
 You know, because I just, I'm a fart machine.
 And I have loose cheeks.
 Yeah.
 I like how you, for the listeners, he just winked at me.
 Yeah, I have loose cheeks and.
 But not in a gay way.
 Not in a gay way, no.
 And I, we were on a couch and we're talking
 and I kind of adjusted my body.
 I ripped one by accident and she laughed.
 You know what I mean?
 It wasn't embarrassing, you know?
 And also I have a little penis.
 I have a little penis.
 It's all relative.
 Yes, it's a little.
 But relative to an elephant, everybody's penis is little.
 Yeah, but I'm not an elephant.
 I'm a human, you know what I mean?
 So relatively human, it's very small.
 And so when she saw it, you know what I mean?
 I thought she was gonna balk at it, right?
 And she looked at it as if it was like an orphan.
 Like, you know, like I wanna, you know what I mean?
 It's a lost child and I wanna, you know,
 take care of it.
 Yeah, yeah.
 Cradle it.
 Cradle it, yeah.
 What about you, man?
 You haven't met anybody like that?
 Never met a girl, never seen one of them.
 I hear they're nice.
 When are the two of you getting married?
 We don't know yet, yeah.
 Is that something you would like?
 Yeah.
 This comes up sometimes.
 You know, we're in couples counseling.
 We're dealing, we're working on some issues that we have.
 Every relationship, even my friendships have issues.
 And so we're working through some issues.
 And once we get to the end of it, we'll figure it out.
 Would you like to be a father one day?
 This is kind of couples counseling.
 Yeah.
 You know, yeah, I do.
 I do, because I feel like,
 you know, before I was very childlike,
 you know, I play a lot of video games.
 I'm irresponsible, I'm lazy, this and that, right?
 But, you know, to be honest with you, Lex,
 in the last six months,
 I've really have come through some breakthroughs.
 And I'm in therapy and I'm doing a lot of things
 and really self-analyzing myself and my behaviors
 and what I want, my desires.
 And I think ultimately, yes, I really do.
 Because it's a life experience that,
 you know, I don't wanna be an old man looking back
 and going, it's something that I've always was interested in.
 And I think it's based on fear
 because I don't want to scar my child
 the way my parents scarred me.
 But at the same time,
 my parents didn't do the work on themselves like I am.
 And they were never about self-improvement.
 They were just about, they were immigrants, you know,
 and they wanted to put food on the table.
 And after that, they just went about their business.
 And I'm not like that.
 I would never be violent toward my kids
 like my parents were.
 My dad was very physically abusive, you know,
 there was a lot of trauma and stuff.
 And so, you know, as a kid, I thought, you know,
 I just would never put my kid through this.
 So that's why I never wanted it,
 but I would completely do it differently, you know,
 even yelling and those kinds of things.
 I would be very mindful about those things.
 And I think that I have certain things, you know,
 I'm not a sciencey guy like you,
 but there are life things that I've learned over the years
 that I could teach a child, you know,
 about living in the moment or walking through fear or,
 you know, things that, you know, things will pass
 and just different things, you know, that I could,
 I would be a good listener.
 And yeah, I would like to do that.
 So your dad died in August of 2019.
 Wow.
 Yeah.
 He did your research.
 Yeah, it's on your Wikipedia.
 Yeah.
 So you said some of it was rough,
 but what's your fondest memory of your dad?
 Well, those memories happened later in life.
 As a child, my fondest memory was my mom,
 because he never spent time with us.
 So my mom made him take me out one day
 and he took me to a park.
 Like he doesn't, there was no baseball glove
 or baseball or anything like that.
 And we sat on a park bench and we sat on a bench
 and we sat on a park bench, right?
 And we just sat there for hours.
 We didn't talk because he didn't know English that well,
 I didn't know Korean.
 So it's just very, you know, basic, you know,
 information being, you know what I mean?
 How are you?
 This is how we go, how you doing?
 I'm okay, you know?
 Good, good, good.
 That type of thing.
 Yeah, for a long time.
 For a long time.
 And then, but the day turned bad
 because I forgot my jacket there and he yelled at me.
 But there's a bit of peace together.
 At that time, yeah, there was peace.
 But then what happened was later in life,
 when I got Matt TV and I was doing, you know,
 in my early years, you know,
 I'd booked a couple of things like in 2000,
 I did the Tonight Show on Leno.
 And then I did, I got Matt TV in 2000.
 And wow, that was over 20 years ago.
 And that's when they, my parents kind of went, huh,
 you know, because obviously, you know,
 there's some nepotism in Hollywood, right?
 But in my case, my parents were straight up immigrants.
 I had no connections to Hollywood.
 And I came up here poor, you know, with no connections.
 And I built it, you know what I mean?
 Through the years, you know?
 And in that way, I'm very proud of myself
 because I went through a lot of fucking hell
 and sadness and desperation and all that stuff.
 And I persevered and I did all that shit on my own, man.
 I booked the Tonight Show on my own.
 I got Matt TV on my own.
 And when I did those things, my parents were very proud.
 But before that, did they doubt you?
 Oh yeah.
 You're not funny.
 You never make me laugh, right?
 And that kind of stuff.
 You're never gonna make it.
 You know what I mean?
 You're gonna be poor all your life,
 you know, and that kind of stuff.
 But Matt TV, he was proud?
 Your dad, your parents?
 Because it was a weekly show.
 So on Saturday nights, they would watch it.
 They would?
 Yeah, and I would play characters
 that they would understand.
 Like I did Kim Jong-il at the time, right?
 So they loved that, right?
 They loved the things that I would do,
 the physical comedy.
 And they couldn't believe in their mind.
 Imagine your parents from Korea coming here,
 not knowing the language, having a child here, right?
 And in their minds, that was never like an option, right?
 And so when they see their kid, I guess, on TV,
 especially there was no internet too at the time.
 The internet had just started.
 So to them, they were like, this is a miracle.
 In fact, when I did the Tonight Show,
 my dad called me the next day and asked me,
 how much, he literally asked me this.
 He goes, how much did you pay them to do it?
 He thought that I had saved all my money.
 Like he thought that like Tom Cruise goes up there
 and goes, here's a grand thanks for having me on.
 Like, you know what I mean?
 No, I go, no, they asked me.
 Like so all the conceptually, they were just shocked by it.
 So when I got it and then they were watching me weekly,
 that TV, the producer was like, hey, have your dad on.
 So my dad did two or three sketches on television.
 So those memories, I also did a pilot for Comedy Central
 and he was on my pilot.
 A pilot for like a show?
 Yeah, show.
 I think I picked up, but he was on the pilot.
 He was in the show?
 Yeah, he was in the pilot.
 He was on that TV too, on television.
 Interesting.
 Yeah.
 Oh wow, okay.
 Yeah, yeah, so it's like he would get residual checks.
 Yeah.
 You know what I mean?
 It's changed everything.
 There's nepotism in reverse.
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really nepotism in reverse.
 And so he, in those memories are very,
 I have very fond memories because he had changed as well.
 He was no longer that violent kind of a guy.
 He had softened a lot, you know what I mean?
 But when he died is when those issues came up,
 you know, like a freight train.
 The bad stuff.
 Oh yeah.
 And I didn't know what was going on.
 It was really hard.
 You miss him?
 How often do you think about him?
 Every day.
 Obviously a lot of it's regrets, you know what I mean?
 Like what kind of regrets?
 Not having said something or not having had a conversation?
 It's not regrets because even if he was still alive,
 there are just things that are impossibilities
 because of his culture and the way he was raised.
 But my regret in life will always be having those types
 even because I tried, I was with my mom
 a couple of months ago and I looked at her
 and I had tears in my eyes.
 We're at a Starbucks.
 I go, mom, I just wanna let you know that I'm so sorry
 that you lived in that house and my dad hit you
 and you survived, you stayed in the marriage
 because of us, right?
 And you know what her response was?
 Let's go to Pucca di Peppo.
 She wanted Italian food.
 Like it was, it like, there was no,
 there was nothing there, right?
 And so my regret is that they just would,
 they'll never be able to even grasp the concept
 of that kind of communication, you know what I mean?
 And I'll never have it.
 So that's sad to me, you know?
 But there's nothing I can do about it.
 Yeah, that callous that comes with the immigrant mentality,
 you don't even, that emotional connection's not even there.
 I've had my grandmother, she,
 there's something called hall demora,
 which is starvation in Ukraine in the 1930s
 that you had to live through.
 She lived through World War II and there's nothing,
 like the only way you survive that is the callous
 you bring, you can't talk with.
 People that fought in major wars, they can't.
 They can't, yeah, they can't talk about it.
 My mom, when she was 12 years old,
 she walked her little sister, my aunt, to school, right?
 She forgot a book.
 So my mom goes to my little sister, my aunt, stay here.
 I'm gonna go get my book.
 She ran up, she came back.
 While she was gone, a military truck ran over my aunt
 and my mom discovered her body split in half,
 entrails, the whole thing.
 And my mom and my uncles had to go and get rice bags
 to pick up her, you know what I mean?
 And then bury my aunt, you know?
 When you live through something like that,
 and also the guilt, because my mom believes deep down
 that if she didn't forget that book,
 that my aunt would still be alive, right?
 So she carries all this guilt and this,
 and to survive all that trauma, you have to build a callous.
 Back then, they didn't have EMDR and therapists
 and psychologists and any of that, right?
 So they had to survive, so that's who she is.
 And it's sad to me that, you know what I mean?
 That it'll forever, she'll forever live in that torment.
 I think it might hurt, if things keep getting worse.
 Boy, what about your own?
 What's been the darkest place you've ever gone in your mind?
 Oh my God, what the, you wrote that down in my mind?
 thought about it. About four months ago, I was in a really bad place. I was naked in
 a hotel room in Arizona. I hadn't eaten in almost a week. I hadn't slept in over a week.
 I thought I was dying. I was coughing up blood. I was waiting to go into an outpatient psychologist
 place in Arizona. I literally thought I was dying. So recently, I was in a very dark place.
 How much was that connected to losing your father? How much was that connected to rehab
 and that kind of stuff? Alcohol, drugs? It's all the same thing, dude. It's all the same
 thing, man. It's all from my childhood. The reason why I do stand up is because of my
 childhood. The hating yourself or being self-critical that has to do with your childhood. Yeah.
 So the drugs and drinking is childhood? It's all about survival and protecting your heart.
 There are ways that I did that as a kid, like using humor as a defense mechanism and also
 avoidance of all emotions, because it's just the one to feel. The reason why I was able
 to survive in comedy is because I can withstand a lot of bullshit and pain. Physical, physical
 emotional, spiritual pain, I can absorb it. But now what's happened later in life is I'm
 unwilling to do that. I'm unwilling to absorb it. I'm unwilling to carry this weight around
 with me and it'll kill me. So I am doing everything I can to free myself of all this baggage.
 So how you're naked in Arizona in a hotel room, face down or face up or on the side?
 What's your favorite when you go to a dark place? On the floor, on the bed or bathtub,
 shower? A fetal position. I don't lay on my stomach. That's weird. I'm not doing a downward
 dog or yoga position or anything like that. On the bed, on the floor? No, what happened
 was I had a relapse. I was doing drinking all night long. What was the first relapse?
 What is the first thing you did? Just drank? What? Wine? No, I took an edible. And that
 opened the door to drinking. Yeah. And the combination is not good for me. The excess
 of the amounts isn't good for me. I just can't stop. And I do it 24 hours a day. Were you
 alone? Well, no, I was living with Kaila. No, I mean, at that moment when you did the
 edibles. I was alone. No, I took a flight because I was shooting Magnum. I'm on a show
 called Magnum PI. So I was flying to Hawaii. So I bought edibles. And then right before
 I was going to get on the plane, I looked at my girlfriend and said, I'm going to relapse.
 Oh, so you knew. I knew. So I got on the plane. I took it. And then literally the next three
 months were like a blur. Why did you know? What gave you the sense that you're going
 to relapse? There was a couple of things that happened in my life that were very shocking
 to me. And I wasn't going to meetings. It's the same old story. I was not connected to
 my sobriety brothers and sisters. And I was drifting away. And something in your mind,
 it was just too much. The pain was too much. So I did it. And then so what happened was
 now two and a half months in, three months in, I started coughing up chunks of blood.
 I've been a smoker since I was 17 years old. And I was smoking so much weed and cigarettes
 that I would just cough up blood. But then simultaneously what happened was Bob Sackett
 and Louie Anderson died. And that week when I was coughing up blood, because I knew them,
 both of them, I just in my head going, I'm next. Because to me, everything happens in
 threes. And I had convinced myself that I was going to die and I was on the precipice
 of death. And so I begged my people to put me into this place in Arizona. Because I knew
 I needed to go to a really rigorous psychology program to get me out of whatever I was going
 through. And also I was getting, at that time when I was in that hotel room, I had not drank
 or even smoked a cigarette or didn't drug in a week. I had to wait in LA for this bed
 to open up. So I was coughing up blood. I hadn't slept. I hadn't eaten. I was sober,
 but I was in so much pain. And I slept naked by the door of this hotel room because I thought
 it would be easier for the maid to discover my body. I mean, that's how fucked up I was.
 I was just in this prison in my mind. And I'm much better now.
 Can you give some insights to how to get out of that place? How you got out of that place?
 I think getting sober first of all was very important, but that still didn't do it completely.
 You know what I mean? I still was convinced that I was. And then I went to this place
 and I did, you know, this place is a 12 hours a day psychotherapy place where you do 12
 hours. You see therapists all day long. So it's like a 12 hour long podcast every day?
 Yeah, yeah. But with professionals and they call you on your shit and they tell you what's
 real and they tell you, you know what I mean? I'm going also dealing with, you know, still
 my dad, still some of these other things. And the third thing that happened was when
 I got back to LA after that place, I got my lungs checked out and I got my physical done
 and you know, EKG, my heart, all of it. And I was completely fine, you know, and I quit
 smoking. I haven't smoked in almost four months. I haven't drank and done drugs since then
 too. So, you know, there's definitely a complete clarity. And I have to also admit that this
 time around, it's just been completely different.
 Is there still in the distance a fear of relapse and all that kind of stuff? Is that still?
 No.
 So you feel good?
 I feel great. Yeah. I feel better than I've ever felt.
 Even when hard shit happens?
 Yeah, because it's like I no longer want to be in that place. And also on top of it, it's
 like it would be a real shame because I've worked so hard to get to this place in my
 life, not just in my career with all of it. You know what I mean? I have so much to lose.
 I have so many people that love me. I just don't want to be there again.
 You know, let me ask you. Sorry, you've talked about this before, but it's interesting. Let
 me ask you a question. You always wear a suit only for the podcast?
 Yeah, I wear it in private too. Oh, you do?
 Not always now because I get recognized, unfortunately, so I have to be selective about how I wear.
 You like it when being recognized or no?
 So because of podcasting, as you probably know, the people that at least recognize me
 are happen to be amazing people. So like, yeah, like they, it's an immediate connection.
 So there's two things about that I don't like. So one, I'm, I fall in love with people. And
 so the nature of interaction is like, well, it's kind of be short. So, yeah, so like you
 have to say goodbye. And I hate goodbyes.
 You do. Yeah. Yeah.
 And then the other thing is just introversion. Like I just, I'm, I'm, I'm an introvert. I'm
 a, I have social anxiety. I have, um, nervous about talking to people and so on. So, so
 you have to always, I'm walking around always a little bit anxious that there'll be an interaction,
 but ultimately once it starts, it's fun. It's beautiful. And then the, the, the, the, the
 goodbyes what hurts. So both the hello and the goodbyes what hurts is the stuff in the
 middle that's delicious.
 I think there's a beautiful thing though, for people like you and I in a weird way,
 you know, because, um, number one, I'm an, I don't know about you, but I'm an isolator.
 I don't really like, you know, any kind of social thing. You know, um, I like my, even
 when I was doing drugs and drinking, I never do it with people. I do it privately in a
 garage, you know? And secondly, um, you know, like I was, my girlfriend and I went, watched
 the Northman, the movie, the Northman. No, what is it? Does it tell me the plot line?
 You didn't even heard of the Northman? I have not heard of the Northman. It's Agoriz. He
 did a movie called the witch. He also did a movie called the lighthouse. You ever see
 the lighthouse? Okay. You watch movies? No, you've never seen a movie. I've seen the godfather.
 Yeah. I bet you money. You've seen Dr. Javaga. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like you like historical sweeping
 Schindler's list. Yeah. Yeah. If it's not historical or sweeping, you're not gonna. All right.
 So, um, I, how do I explain it? It's, it's basically a Viking movie. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
 And um, scars, one of the scars guard, I don't know, the scars guard brothers is in it. Bjork's
 in it. Willem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Ethan Hawke. And it's a, you know, it's a Viking revenge movie.
 So why does it make you think about isolation? No, because no, well, what I was going to say
 is when we went, when we went to the movie theater, right. Um, afterwards there was a kid sitting next
 to me and, um, he just looks at me cause he, I guess he didn't know I was sitting next to him or
 whatever. And he just went, you know, Hey dude, I just can't believe you're sitting next to me,
 you know, and you're my hero and, um, I'm thinking I'm doing comedy and it's really hard.
 So I was able to give him some encouraging things and cause that's who I am too. You know what I
 mean? I want to help people. And I also, um, you know, the idea that he likes me, cause he
 also sped it up specifics about my life, about my comedy and this and that. So he definitely was a
 fan and I was able to, you know, you know, I'm not, even if I become Joe Rogan famous or that big,
 you know what I mean? I've, I'm always going to say hi to people. I'm always going to take photos
 with people. I like that part, you know, of me. It makes me feel also that I belong in a weird way
 because I felt so invisible before I did comedy. You know what I mean? I felt invisible and, um,
 um, it puts me in the game of life, I think in a weird way, you know, so I think it's good for you
 as well. Yeah. It's a little, little moment of experiencing love. It's like, it does feel like
 celebrating life together. You smile at each other and so on. Although you did say, I think in a
 recent podcast that the, you know, people recognize you, but recognize you incorrectly. That I don't
 like. That, that's the opposite of love. Okay. Yeah. That, that I don't like, uh, loved you in the
 hangover. Yeah. You know what I mean? You know, I, I, you know, I, or this is what I don't like.
 This is why I hate this. Yes. Some guy will like me, right? I'll take a photo and then other people
 will go, huh, he's somebody and will walk up to me and go, Hey, so why did he take a photo? You
 know what I want a photo. And then you're like, no, I don't do, would you do that? No, I would,
 I don't like that. No. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I do like the, uh, the experience where maybe there's
 a couple, uh, a guy and a girl, boyfriend and girlfriend, and the guy is a fan and the girlfriend
 has no idea. And it's always a funny interaction because she's like trying to figure out what is
 happening here. And it's always beautiful to see. Cause what if the guy, when he, the guy explains
 to his girlfriend who you are, do you feel uncomfortable about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
 It loads the information is transferred quickly and she starts to understand because she's not
 used to her boyfriend being excited about a stranger. It's like what was happening here.
 So it's a fascinating little dynamic. That's a beautiful, it's like, uh, the spread of information
 happens right there in real life. It's beautiful. It's mostly though, do you, would you say that
 it's probably usually men that recognize you or no, but men, the thing I've discovered is men are
 more likely to approach aggressively, right? Uh, women recognize you. They'd have a different way
 of like double take. Uh, they don't want to, uh, invade your space. Guys are like, bro. Yeah.
 Yeah. Yeah. They come in with a hug at, uh, South by Southwest had a guy. Um, I was just walking to
 a seven. I go to seven. I have a lot. My favorite spot. Seven 11. Yes. Uh, sugar-free slushy. I think
 for happiness. I like, I find happiness at a seven 11. So adorable late, late at night.
 And he came up and, you know what, can I tell you something that happened to me? I haven't told
 anybody. This never happened to me before. I was outside of a seven 11 in Austin. I'm not going to
 say which one. And there was a gentleman that approached me. This is at three or four at night,
 which is usually when I go, uh, I program all night and I just like to go and take a break.
 He approached me in the way that maybe somebody who recognized me approached me. He did a double
 take. He walked past me and then walked back and then looked at me and I went into the seven 11.
 I thought that's weird. Uh, and then I came out with my slushy and, and then he approached me
 and he said, can I give you a blow job?
 So I have never,
 really? Yeah. So the energy he put, I've never had, were you wearing a suit?
 No. Okay. I was wearing like, uh, the sweatpants and that was very kind of like hiding from the
 world. Uh, type of thing. I've never had anybody approached me that way, but the energy he put,
 the love he had in the approach, I thought he'd be like, um, love you on Rogan. Yeah. Love the
 something. Love some kind of, and then he just said, can I, I'm forgetting the exact wording
 because it wasn't, uh, the, the wording was such that he wasn't, he wanted to make me happy.
 He didn't want to make himself happy. You want to make me happy. I forgot. Can I give you a blowjob?
 I think that was the thing. Cause if he said, can you give me a blowjob, it would be very different.
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I think there's more aggressive way of phrasing that, but he,
 he presented himself. See, I forget it was almost like gentle and poetic. And I was like,
 I just started and said, no, no, thank you.
 Move past everyone does. Yeah. No, thank you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
 no. Thank you. In my mind, I was like, is this a threat? Because it's for a night. I wasn't
 exactly sure. I mean, I've never experienced this. I imagine this is what sort of, um, women often experience
 that kind of the danger, the constant threat all around you, but I've never, that's just, it was,
 uh, it was a funny little moment. I, I didn't know what to do with it. Yeah. That happened. And I,
 I go to that seven 11 often looking for the guy. Cause now I would say yes. No, there used to be a
 steam room in Beverly on Beverly Boulevard. And, um, my brother and I walked in there once and I,
 we walked in and was a man sitting there erection and his Dick was so big, he was jerking it off
 with both hands and we kind of walked in and he goes, what's up? And he just did it. And we just
 sat there, you know what I mean? Because it was not aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that was
 the same feel you sense that it wasn't an aggressive thing. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah.
 It was just a kind, it was, he was just minding his own business and he threw it out.
 But it wasn't also, it wasn't sexual either. It was like, it was like, it's just, you know,
 it's just like, it's like love or something. I felt like he, it's almost like, can I give you a hug?
 Right. Then why don't you just take it? I, I keep looking for it. Next time I see it,
 but not in a gay way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to be clear while that. Did you
 grow up in Russia or Ukraine? Russia. Russia. Yeah. But your great grandmother,
 your grandmother was in. My father is Ukrainian. My grandmother is Ukrainian. So if you just look
 at the full family tree is about half and half as Russia. A lot of conflict with you right now.
 Internally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me, let me ask, you've talked about this before, but
 I'd love to sort of re-explore this as Carlos Mencia. Oh my God. Yeah. Why? Why go there again?
 Yeah. I'm willing to do it, but do you like Carlos? Well, first of all, I'm friends with Joe.
 And I remember being a fan of, I'm outside of this whole world. I remember thinking Carlos was funny.
 Yeah. So I just, as a fan, I was like, oh, funny. And then I remember this, this, all this big
 controversy about him stealing jokes. And because I'm a fan of yours, it's such an interesting human
 dynamic. And I'm a fan of friendship and loyalty. And you had a great podcast conversation with him.
 It was tense. It was so tense. It was very tense. Yeah. But it was interesting. And it, it kind of,
 well, it makes me think of you talking to your father on that bench.
 Yeah. That's essentially what it was. Some of it wasn't getting through, but maybe,
 how do you feel about that whole thing about the guy? I mean, he gave you, he's a friend. He gave
 you a lot. But you're, you're also comedians. Stealing jokes is no good, but also there's like a,
 I don't know, all the tensions in your heart about all that whole thing. How do you feel about it?
 Do you forgive him? Okay. Let's just, let's go back to the, it's very Shakespearean in a very
 weird way, right? Because there was some betrayal there. You know what I mean? There's a lot of drama
 when it comes to that situation. Again, also I'm a very loyal guy. Like I've had the same manager
 since the late nineties and I've had every gigantic manager want to sign me, even though my manager is
 great, right? She's not a big company, right? And there's only so much she can do. And maybe,
 you know what I mean? My career would have been different if I would have signed with a bigger
 management. I don't know, right? But I will never leave her, you know? I'll never leave my agent,
 Matt, you know? The people go, well, you're at CAA. That's amazing. The only reason why I'm at
 CAA is because of Matt Blake, you know? So there are certain loyalties that I have, the comedy store,
 you know? I mean, I generally play the comedy store mostly because my loyalties are with them.
 I don't know if that's a good trait, but it's just the way I am, right?
 I admire that, yeah. Okay. So when it comes to Carlos,
 you know, in the early, in the mid nineties is when I met him. I was a doorman at the Loyola Comedy
 Store. He brought me on the road. He introduced me to Matt Blake, my agent, right? And he bought me
 a car, you know, when I couldn't pay rent, you know, and I was really desperate. I could always go
 to him for money, you know? And he helped me out in so many different ways, right? So, you know,
 I really appreciate that. Pauly did the same thing. Anyway, and then all of a sudden, and I always knew
 going on the road with him that, number one, I found it odd that he never had a notebook,
 you know, usually, you know, comics riff with each other and they write things down,
 you know what I mean? Me, I'll get together with people and write, you know what I mean?
 I'll do a new joke night because I'm too scared to try it in front of a pack room or whatever it
 might be, okay? He never had, did that, right? And he had hours of material. And, you know,
 and, you know, a lot of it was derivative of other people's. He would sometimes hear a bit,
 change it to Mexican. Like, for instance, you know, if Paul Mooney had a joke
 about black people, he would change it, change it a bit. But premise-wise, it was always extremely
 too similar. And there are examples on the internet. So, you know, you can't, there's
 things that you can't really deny. And so when that whole thing happened, you know,
 it was like the Titanic. I mean, I was either going to sink with Carlos or survive. And I did
 the worst, not the worst thing, but I made a difficult decision and my decision was to cut
 ties. And, you know, over the years, I've felt very guilty about it in some respects, but,
 you know, there is always in my mind, I want to help him, you know, I want to help him reestablish
 some sort of a different, you know, route for him to go in terms of his career and whatnot.
 And so I had him on my podcast and it didn't go the way I wanted it to go. You know, I mean,
 I've always believed if he just fully just was apologetic and said, you know, I'm sorry for
 stealing in general, because we don't know specifically, I mean, there's specifics, you
 know what I mean? And I don't want to argue every case, you know? So I thought the healthiest thing
 to do was like in just in a broad way, listen, I stole, I'm so sorry. These are the reasons why.
 And I'm a different guy now, but it just never happened in that way. And so it's been difficult.
 So you don't think he's self-reflected looking in the mirror about mistakes of the past at all?
 Like, do you think he's aware? I think it's ego. You know, I think that he,
 for one reason or another, he, because there are probably jokes that he legitimately in his heart
 know that he wrote, that people are accusing of stealing, right? But, you know, it's like,
 we don't know, right? So it's like, just apologize for all of it, right? But he won't, he fights for
 every, you know, every point. And, you know, I just think that that's not the route. And he,
 I mean, he's always going to make money. He's, you know, he's never going to be what he should be,
 which is he's a powerful performer, you know, in terms of laughs. I mean, dude, I wouldn't,
 I wouldn't want to follow him. He's a crusher, you know? So it's like, you know, it's really,
 he can act. He has all the skillsets. It's just that to me, he went about it in the wrong way.
 And it's sad to me. And, but I still always love him. And I've always will thank him for
 all the help that he's done. So you still got room in your heart for him.
 I have room for my heart for a lot of people, man, you know,
 Hitler.
 All right. What was the returning back to Tiger Belly? Cause you said, uh,
 Kaila basically started it. What's the origin story of Tiger Belly?
 You know, when I met her, oh, by the way, for people listening, in case you somehow don't know
 what Tiger Belly is a podcast, you do, it's an amazing podcast. You also do, uh, bad friends
 with, uh, Andrew Santino. Yeah. So on. Thank you so much for the plug. Appreciate it.
 I don't know. It's content. It's not the plug. It's a plug. Other things though. What's this?
 We're doing it. Uh, sure. Sure. Oh, what's your, uh, I'm on a show called. Okay. That's enough.
 Thank you. So, um, what, what, what's the name of the show you're on? I'm on a couple,
 a couple of shows. Oh, it's good for you. Netflix. It's no. Okay. I'm on sex in the city,
 the sex and the city. Yeah. I'm on reservation dogs. It's an FX show. Wait, sex in the city is
 not a joke. No, I am actually on sex in the city. Wait, are they rebooting the show? They did.
 Okay. It's called and just like that sex in the city. Oh, and you're on it. Yeah. Is this not,
 is this is not a joke? You can Google it. Okay. You know what I mean? Who do you play? I play
 a, a podcaster on it on the show. Sarah Jessica Parker's Carrie has a podcast and I'm her podcast
 partner. Oh, got it. Perfect. But then, but I'm also now they've my storyline. Anyway, it's fine.
 Do you sleep with somebody on there? I am married on the show. Yeah. They, they showed my,
 I married to a young lady on it. Yeah. All right. It felt like it, it felt like,
 you know, cause you don't think doing it. I look around going, are you sure I'm supposed to be on
 this? You know what I mean? I do feel that, but lo and behold, I'm on it. Yeah, you are. So, I'd
 started this way. So, you know, my friend, David Cho, do you know him? He's an artist. He used to
 have a podcast, right. Called DVD ASA and he used to have me on it and then Kalyla started doing it.
 And then when DVD SA ended, Kalyla was just like, let's start our own. And I was like, nah,
 nah, it's not going to work. So she goes, well, fine. I'm going to just do it on my own then.
 So she went and bought the equipment and we were living in a condo at the time in Hollywood and she
 would do them on her own. She did probably three on her own. And one day I was watching television,
 the door was open to the podcast room and I looked, turned around and she was literally like this,
 we had a table like this, she had the mic and all that stuff. And she was doing this, she was like
 slumped over like this. And I just kind of went, fuck it. So I walked in there and I go, all right,
 let's just do one. And that's how it started. And then chemistry was there immediately.
 Well, I already knew that she could do it because of DVD SA, right. So I already knew that she had
 the skillset. It's just all about, even in this conversation that you and I had today, right,
 there are gaps of like, oh, what else should we talk about? Right. Or like, I don't know what
 direction, right. And it's all about the old improv rule, adding information. Even if you don't
 know what you're going to say, just fill the dead space with something. So right now, if we had
 we stopped talking about something, I was like, when I asked you, did you grew up in Russia or
 Ukraine, right, was one of those dead spaces where I was just like, let's just throw it out there,
 see where this goes, right. And she has that ability to fill that dead space with information.
 That's all you need. Right. And she gets it in that way. So it's like when we, you know,
 started doing it at DVD SA, I just knew that she had the skillset. So when we started doing it for
 Tiger Belly, it was a given, you know, you know, she can do it there. I've had girlfriends that
 wouldn't be able to do it. What are you doing? You know, you have the skillset. You know,
 you're a sciencey guy. You spend all night long, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know,
 doing whatever you're fucking doing. Right. But you have this innate ability to do it. Right.
 And I think it's a talent. Do you think it's a talent?
 Do you think it's, do you think you have talent? What are you doing? I know what you're doing,
 not adding information. I know what you're doing. That's a good bit. It's a good thing.
 I kept doing it and you kept filling the space. It's quite interesting. Yeah, that is true,
 huh? Cause you're just ending yourself, which is great. The improv thing. That was really
 impressive. Can I ask you a question? Sure. Have you ever had a guest on that didn't add information
 and then you had to keep doing it? Yeah, yeah. But it's part of the magic too. And sometimes I feel
 like, uh, they were actually giving me a gift of silence and I was stepping on it. Like, for example,
 I had a conversation with Jaco, you know, uh, Jaco Willink and every question I would ask him in the
 beginning, and I'm now better friends with him. There was the first time we met in that conversation
 and I would ask him these long questions of mumble and meander and so on. And he would answer with
 yes or no. And that's it. Yeah. And then, but he'd do it in a strong, like Viking like way.
 And I kept, I kept, uh, trying to go full like, uh, Bobby Lee style of create chaos and just keep
 talking and talking and so on, uh, as opposed to, I think he was inviting me more for the stoic type
 of silence, short sentences, that kind of conversation. So I fucked that up, I believe. Uh,
 but yeah, there's, uh, that not the adding information part, but the adding chemistry part
 where some it's usually ego where, where people don't realize there's a magic to be found between
 two humans, like genuinely it's like a first date, like that to truly listen to each other
 and to do the yes. And thing and have fun with it. Uh, when you have this energy, I'm way too
 important for this conversation that the, yeah, the information might be there, but the chemistry
 is not. So you have to remember that a lot of the podcasts I've done are like technical. Yeah. And
 so you could still say a lot of stuff about like what, what this project or whether it's physics
 or robotics or biology, you could say informational stuff, but the, the excitement, the magic is not
 there. But I often blame myself because like, if I'm excited, they'll be excited. I've learned this.
 So I'm learned. I'm not allowed to have like a, uh, bored face, which my, my face is naturally looks
 bored, but on the inside I'm excited. Yeah. So it might be a Russian thing. I don't know. It's not.
 Can I tell you why you're not boring your face? Right. Because, um, you have crow's feet.
 Oh, this thing. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason why you have crow's feet is you smile a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
 You're very expressive. I know white dudes. I don't trust white dudes. Yeah. Right. With no
 crow's feet. Right. Because that means they don't, that they're not, you know, mean accessing that
 part of their face. Yeah. You know, which is why I hate when, um, this is an LA thing, especially, uh,
 women have talked to me about like Botox and they, they hate the crow. They, they hate not on me,
 on themselves. Oh, and they, they hate cause it's all wrinkles and stuff like that. And to me it's
 like, no, that's where the magic, the magic. It really is. Yeah. Uh, so, okay. So the interesting
 thing about tiger belly, is there some weird like aesthetic to it? It's really unique. It's not just
 good. It's also unique. Like in the way that Wes Anderson films are unique, like life aquatic.
 I don't know if you know those films. Yeah, I love those. I mean, those are my favorite films. Yeah.
 What is that? What is that? It, it's not just the chemistry between you and Koala. It's like,
 what is that? Can you, can you put a finger on it? Or is it just like,
 well, it's, it's essentially who I am. I like, I, that's what my, all my houses have looked like
 that. You know what I mean? Like I've always been a collector of designer toys. You know what I mean?
 I've always been a collector of, um, kind of weird artwork. Um, yeah, I've always been like that. You
 know, I, I like weird wallpaper. Like I'll get, instead of like going to a wallpaper store,
 what I'll do is I'll get artwork that I like from an artist, like, and go get the, you know,
 get their approval and go to a place and make wallpaper out of their artwork. You know what I
 mean? You can, like, if I wanted to Lex Friedman your face on my wall, I would ask for your
 permission and I would probably put your face on a gigantic wall. Like I would do stuff like that.
 That's awesome. Yeah. But I, can you do that? Yeah. You have my permission. You know,
 I think I will. Yeah. You know, I think I will just for the laugh. Yeah. You know what I mean?
 But I would do it. Big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But my point is, is that I, um,
 it's essentially who I am on the inside, I guess, in terms of like my, you know, I don't know,
 but I don't really, I've never, I'm glad you said that because I never even thought about that.
 Yeah. You just, you know, you just kind of do it like this, you know, because all your podcasts
 have this black ominous thing. You're, you know, you're, you're wearing a black suit that you're,
 you have a specific thing too. It's like, but I don't really think people ask me like, why do
 you wear a suit? I really don't, I just feel good in it. Yeah. Just who I am. And the reason why
 my podcast looks the way I do is because I feel comfortable in that environment. And it, you know,
 like you, I don't try to think too much about what I'm doing on Tiger Belly or even bad friends,
 right? Because when you start thinking about it and go, we should do this segment and I should,
 you know, do it this way or this podcast does it this way. So why, you know, no, I just show up.
 I keep my mind open and I do the best I can. I add information like we talked about and I just keep
 talking. Right. And I'm being, I try to be authentically myself. Like right now, you know,
 I had this fear when I was, I was far, I shit in your fucking bathroom, man. Yeah. Because I was
 so scared. Out of fear. Yeah. And like, you know, I was like kind of nervous because I, you know,
 this whole week and it wasn't anticipating coming here. And I watched the Mark Norman one. I watched
 the Yanis one to see, you know, how tonally and last night my girlfriend just looked at me and
 just goes, just show up. Yeah. Colin knows who I am. Dude, you think that, first of all,
 let me ask you something. Yes. You think I have the day, you know, I'm busy. I'm to drive all the
 way over here to West Hollywood to do your fucking thing. Why would I do that? Yeah. Because we are
 a well aware of who you are and we like you. Thank you. God. And we want you on ours. I would love,
 I would love that as a, I mean, that's, that's, that's the reason I'm doing this is just to get
 on your pocket. Awesome. Yeah. It's funny. Cause I just mentioned to you offline, I got a chance
 to talk to Oliver Stone and he asked me this thing, which is, you know, how many listeners does this
 thing get all that kind of stuff. And I don't even pay attention to that. So it's like, I just don't
 a little bit. So you do don't arrow extensions in my browser. I don't see the views, the number of
 views. Yeah. Don't pay attention. Did you know that like some of your YouTube videos on interviews
 and stuff have over a million? That I know. I know, I know like loosely that like it bleeds through,
 but it's, it's not part of my conscious, like, um, thing I think about. I'm very, I, I've just seen it
 destroy people's minds where they're no longer thinking creatively. They're not, they don't feel
 good if something they do doesn't get as much as attention as they thought it should.
 It just can destroy you even though it's good. It could be great stuff you create that nobody,
 everybody ignores, but it was still great. It is, it is still great. And, uh, sort of letting that
 negatively affect your mind is a, I don't know. I've seen it destroy people. So I'm very nervous
 about that. It's like that old saying never live in the results. It's like, if I, if I podcast
 to make, I'd like initially, honestly, when I did Tiger Billy, we made no money for the first
 couple of years. Like not enough to put a dent. I couldn't buy anything like, you know, nice or
 anything. Um, it was, um, just side money. You know what I mean? I could buy some shoes once a
 month or whatever. Right. And like I said before, um, I was, my career was in the shitter, right? So
 Tiger Billy wasn't like, this is going to be the thing. You know what I mean? It was just something
 to do with my girlfriend creatively, you know, and it just so happens that it did do all these
 things for me, right? Um, podcasting, but, um, yeah, I never, and still today I don't do it for
 any of those things. You know, I do it because, um, it's fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it is right. Yeah.
 Um, let me ask you, since you say why you love Kaila, why do you love slash Hey George,
 George Kimmel, your producer, what's your favorite thing about him? Let's say that positive thing.
 Positive. Cause I, cause you know, it's like, you know, I don't want to give them compliments,
 but you know, I'll try. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try. Um,
 have you actually, I don't think you've publicly ever said, I don't think I have either. So I'm
 going to get, I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to give it a real go. Okay. Yeah.
 You know, at the end of the day, when it comes to money, when it comes to responsibility,
 obviously this is a business now for you and me. It is, you know, it's, it's a side business.
 But it's a business and, um, you want to be able to trust the people that are running it.
 And I have 100% trust in everything that he does in terms of financial things,
 in terms of technical things, in terms of all of it, you know, I mean, merchandise and I have
 100% belief in him. I, and that's rare, you know, to find someone like that. And I think
 that's the biggest thing that I've ever heard from him is that he's a great guy.
 And that's rare, you know, to find someone like that. Um, also at the end of the day,
 I know his heart and he really is a great guy. He, there's nothing about him. Like for instance,
 you know, he was over the other day and I go, you know, I bought this key wooden thing that some
 people have, but I don't have it. So I just, you know, I go, Hey, can you figure this out?
 And he goes, yeah, I got it. You know what I mean? Like, he's just that guy. Yeah. You know, um,
 he's also, but, but there is a part of me and this is probably wrong,
 but there's a part of me that feels like I kind of made him.
 Yeah. He'd be nothing without you. That's not what I'm saying.
 Well, I didn't fucking say that. That's the way I heard it.
 And it's probably wrong, right? Cause he did all the things that he has in his life. He did on his
 own, right? But still for some reason, he'd be nothing without you. That's what I mean.
 Yeah. Yeah. So basically like, cause when I met him, I was a part of this, um, YouTube studio
 called maker studios and he was just a producer there and that's how I met him. And when he left
 maker, he came to us and he wasn't a podcast producer. And now he has this big company.
 He produces a bunch of podcasts, you know, and he has a bunch of employees and he has a nice
 business, you know, and I feel like I had a lot to do with it. So both the competence and the good
 heart. Yeah. What about Gilbert? Yeah. Gilbert is a godsent as well. You know, I don't know if,
 because of, let me ask you this, because you're a science guy, this is an interesting question
 for me. Um, do you believe just the universe gives you certain things at the right moment,
 at the right time? Do you believe that there is a mechanism out there where it's just,
 we're just a part of this machine that's kind of like almost as if things are just happening the
 way it's supposed to happen. Or do you think there's just these random things that are
 occurring and the word just it's chaos in that way? I don't know from a science perspective,
 because I wouldn't be able to explain it, but I do believe you mentioned karma. There's,
 there's a karma thing. It just, if you put love out there in the world, like certain doors open
 in a certain kind of way, like they're almost waiting for you and then you walk through them.
 So yes, in that way, I believe that it just, it feels like, um, not everything is like a basic
 like billiard ball model of like, you have to fight for everything. You could just generally be
 cool to people and kind to people and certain opportunities just pop up at the right moment.
 More specifically though, you know, so for instance, let's suppose like Gilbert, for instance,
 he just showed up at my house one day. I didn't know who he was. I had a fight night and a friend
 brought him, right? This is right when Kalyla and I were starting Tiger Belly, right? And in
 conversation, he was like, we didn't know how to engineer. We didn't have an engineer for our podcast
 and that night he was like, you know, I know how to do it. Right. And if I hadn't met him that night,
 he just wouldn't, I don't know if it would be as good. It would be completely different.
 And I really believe that we were, we were met, we met him that night for a reason,
 you know, so you don't believe that it's complicated. I believe that for love and
 these kinds of things, but I don't believe that as much for building a team, but that's the
 engineering thing. I think that's the, the artist in you. I'm less of an artist. I think artists
 thrive in the chaos of it. So it's not only that you guys met at that time is you didn't probably
 ask in detail about his qualifications or didn't, didn't go through a rigorous thing. You just
 dove in and figured it out on the fly. I think that's the, that's sort of the artist ethic. I
 think with like, if you're doing a startup or engineering, there's a little bit more rigor in
 the selection process. But because the same with, with Rogan, Jamie just
 walked up to him. Jamie Vernon. Yeah, he just walked up to the same kind of situation and they
 made it, you know, both, both of you have one of the best podcasts in the world. And so it's like,
 how did that, what? Yeah, I, so I believe that it's very strange. Yeah, strange. Or maybe it's just
 like cool people hang out with cool people. So you kind of collide. But that's not true because
 they're, cause that's not true because with bad friends, for instance, right. I've had 12 people
 before Andrew Santino that had asked me to do one with me. Right. And, you know, they just was,
 it wasn't, didn't want to do it. Yeah. You know, um, with Andrew though, it happened kind of
 organically and in, in, in a way that was almost like in my heart meant to happen in a weird way.
 That's a weird combination by the way. So why did, why was that the sticky one?
 Andrew, cause you have a lot of comedian friends. Why Andrew? Because number one, we both know
 just instinctually without even talking about it, that in many ways we're polar opposites in terms
 of like energy, right? He's more aggressive. I also know I respond good with alpha males,
 you know what I mean? Because I'm more of a follower, you know what I mean? Or sensitive
 in that way. But in many ways I am an alpha male in certain areas of my life, you know? Yeah.
 Well, you know, when it comes to smashing doc, what's up? You know what I mean? Yeah.
 You know, so we both knew instinctually that that in that way, our chemistry worked right. And also
 in terms of style and all that stuff is completely just, it was just an organic given to us.
 Yeah. Yeah. But you trust yourself with power. You play dictators.
 What do you mean? Do I? Like, cause I feel like you would be, cause you said you're not an alpha
 male, but in many ways, when you smash what's up and you winked at me, would you,
 what do you think about that? If I give you absolute power, would you be able to, what would
 you, how would you change? What does absolute power mean? Like you said to me, listen, you are
 going to be the dictator of planet earth and anything that you want is at your means. Yeah.
 Including violence, sex. No, I would not because even in my personal life now, there are things
 that I could do, right? That I have power, I guess that I don't participate in. Right. So why would
 I do it if I had ultimate power? I mean, because there's always, there's still a moral and ethics
 that I have, right? That I don't feel comfortable with. Right. So you wouldn't even enjoy it.
 No, I mean, I think that there would be no, if I had ultimate dictatorship on planet earth,
 there would be no violence. I mean, I would not cause any wars, right? But if there's an uprising,
 yeah, I'd have to quell it. That's how it starts, Bobby. You quell it. Don't, don't uprise. Right.
 But so first you're going to censor everybody who wants to even suggest the idea of uprising.
 And then, and then one person gets out of line, they run a red light. Okay. That's, that's,
 but you ever get angry in traffic? Yeah. I get rageful. So if you could murder
 that person. No, no, no, no. Nobody has to know. No, I would give them cancer.
 But I would not. So much worse. I know, I know. Okay. No, but no, but here, no, this is an
 interesting thing. Cause I want to, I want to, I want to elaborate. All right. So the thing,
 if I was the dictator of the planet earth, right. Um, there would be a reason why people would
 uprise, right? So give me a reason because I would give them food, shelter, right. And all the things
 I feel like that people would desire, right. But, but you're right. But you're right. Because
 they're, you're right. I think this is what you're talking about. So here's the deal.
 So there are certain things that I do believe in, right. Like for instance, it's a very controversial
 thing, right. In terms of a woman's right, right. In terms of abortion, right. I feel like as a male,
 I, it's not my body. So I don't really even have an opinion or I shouldn't even have a voice on it.
 Because, you know, I mean, a woman, like it's like if they created laws, if white people, men,
 created laws for Koreans in America, like you don't have the right to, right. So it's like,
 so if I was, if I was a dictator, right, I would just be like, yeah, women have all the rights in
 the world, right. And they, you know, and I think abortion should be legal throughout the planet
 earth, right. But there will be people out there that will believe that no, you know what I mean?
 We, you know, we're pro-life. So you would put them in jail. So that's right. So I think
 as a dictator, you, there was no way to be able to please everyone. So there will be an uprising.
 So yeah, fuck it. I don't want to do it. Okay. Would you do it?
 Uh, not, no, there's several loaded questions. Would I enjoy it? No. Would I do it? No, because
 I don't trust my own mind under power. Like I'm well aware that in situations where I have control,
 it's, it's as much a freedom as it is a burden. Like it can change you. I'm very nervous about
 that. Like how much, uh, uh, how much the ego starts to flare up, how much, just like the less,
 uh, pleasant things about your nature come up, you know, I have a temper to like, I have all that
 kind of stuff and, uh, you have, I'm sure you have a bit of a temper. Yeah. I have a temper. Yeah.
 And so whenever nobody is able to as clearly call you out on your bullshit, that's, that could be a
 problem. Do you have this, when you, when you rage out and you have a temper, is there like,
 like either a day later or a couple of hours later, is there a shame and regret that comes along with
 that or no? Yeah, no, no, no, of course. Yeah. During it. Yeah. During it too. Yeah. Shame and
 regret. Yeah. Yeah. And then, but I try to make sure it's like love and respect are felt always underneath the whole thing. Um,
 but still it's like human emotion. You can't control it. And if you give an absolute power,
 you start to lose your sense of the world. You start to be unable to see what is right and wrong.
 You think everything is right. You start to be, um, have a distorted view of who is doing the
 wrong things in the world. And then also distrust. Well, that has to do more with how absolute power
 is usually attained because when you're in the seat of power, everybody first on the outside,
 but then in your inner circle, you start to distrust them. You start to believe that they're going to,
 they want your power. So the people you love, the people that were source of so much
 beauty for you previously, uh, like even like your, your girlfriend, wife, your closest lifelong friends,
 you start to suspect them. I don't want to live like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're often right to suspect them.
 So you think they change a little bit too. They changed too. Yeah. They start to get a little bit taste of that power. Yeah.
 It was the interesting thing is a bunch of people in the, in Hitler's inner circle at the very end,
 betrayed him too in search of their own power. Wow. Fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating. This power thing.
 Uh, let me ask you a bunch of ridiculous questions real quick. Okay. If you can be someone else for a day,
 someone alive today who you haven't yet met, who would you be for one day? You get to be,
 could be female, male, that'd be a lot. I always wanted to see what a pop star was like.
 Which one would you go? Like Harry Styles. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm Harry Styles, right, I just want to see like,
 would like to go to the Beverly center. Okay. As Harry Styles. As Harry Styles. Yeah. Or Coachella.
 Just walk around Coachella as Harry Styles. You know what I mean? We get a lot of attention and it's a very specific kind of attention.
 Yeah. I just want to see what that's like. I want to be able to, because the thing is, is that
 I want to be able to like see what it's like in terms of how easy would it be to get a hot chick.
 Oh, I thought you meant to like get a table at a restaurant. No, no, no. No, that, you know, I can still do now as Bobby Lee, you know,
 but as Harry Styles, or I want to see what it'd be like and how that would go about. Like how easy it would be. You know what I mean?
 Yeah. Yeah. Like, could you just walk up to the hottest chick at Coachella and start making out with them?
 Yeah, that's interesting. Just to see. Just to see if you could. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know as Bobby Lee, no, no, no, no.
 Could you? No, you couldn't do that. No, no.
 It's an interesting reason. So if you were the last person on earth, like everybody disappeared, everybody's dead.
 What would your day look like? What would your days look like? What would you do?
 That's interesting, because if I was able to figure out the, you know, electricity, I think my days would be like, God, why didn't you learn about electricity?
 Oh, yeah. Right. You realize how little you know. Yeah. Yeah. Why didn't you learn about these things? Because now you're going to die. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
 But I think the first thing obviously is no, let me ask you something. Why?
 Now, if you're saying that I'm the last person on planet Earth because there was an alien invasion and there's predators and things that I have to fucking look out for.
 That's one way. But if I'm just all of a sudden I wake up and just everyone's gone and everyone's dead.
 But there's no threat. There's no threat. Then what I would do is I go, well, let's find a place to live. Not probably my house. Right.
 So I'd probably live in a place where it's closest to grocery stores. Right. So I would get food and stuff first. Right.
 And then secondly, it's like, you know, I'll probably go, you know what I thought about? I would probably go to San Marcos, San Diego Vista because that's where the real doll factory is.
 And just fuck all of them? No, no, no. I would have to grab like six of them because I'm going to get lonely.
 Six of them for a variety. You wouldn't be monogamous with one doll. No, and I also would carry out like the vagina parts.
 You know what I mean? And all the accessories and stuff. Right. And then go back to L.A. probably. Oh, why do I stay down there? You could stay in the factory.
 No. Yeah. Maybe the factory. And then but I think thirdly, I would run out of electricity. Right.
 And I think, you know, I mean, my demise would come slow. Well, you could find sources of electricity because nobody's using it.
 So I don't know how to turn the machines on. Like, I don't know how to go to the fucking. Yeah. What do you call it?
 The place where it's I don't even know what it's called. The place where you don't mean we're in all the energy is generated.
 Yeah. Generators. Where do I go? Yeah. It's good questions. All right.
 Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones? The past or the future?
 No, I mean, I can't lose my memories. All of them. That makes me who I am.
 But you wouldn't be able to make new ones. You wouldn't be. So you'd be living in the moment.
 Now stop with all the all the. But you did say you're in a really good place.
 So maybe this is a pretty good set of memories you got. You got all the trauma. Yeah.
 I mean, you just that's a nightmare. You just created a nightmare for me. That's a nightmare.
 The choice. The choice is a nightmare. Yeah. You're you're fucked either way.
 It's already beautiful. It's a kind of death not being able to make new memories. That's it.
 That's all you got. Yeah. You get to relive the memories you have as a science guy. Let me ask you a question. Sure.
 Are you afraid to die? Yeah, of course. I'm not. Of course, I am. I think about it every day.
 Yeah. I yeah, I meditate on my on my mortality all the time. Right. It doesn't make any sense.
 It's terrifying. It's terrifying. And because are you terrified because of the unknown or because you believe it's nothingness.
 The unknown. But my best guess is that it's something like nothingness and that nothingness is so terrifying.
 Yeah. The infinity of the nothingness. Yeah. Yeah. But Ram Dass says and this is something that I always you know, Ram Dass.
 Yeah. Ram Dass says he believes that death is like removing a tight shoe.
 Like release. Yeah. Like that could be it too. I think maybe when we die, that's initially maybe the last feeling that we have is release.
 And then if that happens and there's nothingness, I think that's cool. Well, no, that that has to be the last feeling.
 Yeah. Yeah. I think that has to do more with the actual feeling of death, which I think some people are afraid of the experience to make sure it's it's it's it's one of release, like you said.
 Yeah. But the existential aspect that you're no longer exist, like all the shit you're doing kind of assumes you'll live forever. Right.
 Like you don't really like all your career and all that kind of stuff. You probably will be forgotten. I know. Like completely erased. Yeah.
 So all you have is a few moments in this life, a few moments of joy, a few moments of trauma, of suffering. And that's it. I know.
 But here's the and you're wasting your time today talking to me and you have you have a few such moments. You do a couple hundred more podcasts and then you'd be dead.
 No, because this right here, dude, right, is human.
 Number one, I walked through a little fear today, so I learned something. Right. I'm talking to a science guy, which I never thought I could.
 You're the first scientist ever talked to. Yeah. Right. You get a diploma at the end of this.
 Oh, good. And there's I believe that there was a connection. Right. Not in a gay way. Not in a gay way. Non gay.
 I was connection. Right. In certain circumstances, I probably would blow you.
 Would you in a certain circumstances, like if we're the last two people on planet Earth and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah.
 But yeah, those are probably the only ones. But or like somebody put a gun to my ass. You gotta blow.
 OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm turned on right now. Yeah. Let me ask you one question. Go ahead. What do you think is the meaning of life?
 My fucking that's the last one. Yes, this last one. Yeah. What do you think? Why are we here? Why are you here? Why are we here?
 Does any of it make sense? I think ultimately here's the what's why I like life in general is what we talked about.
 Like we view death, there is a mystery there. There's a wonderment to it. Right. So it's like when I walk outside, you know, and I look at the trees and I look at buildings that man made these buildings and, you know, I look at the universe and I look in the sky and I don't really completely comprehend what's going on.
 Right. It's just so in. I mean, all of all of it. Right. And I don't have any answers. Right. But that, I think, is what the meaning of life is, is to be in awe of it and the wonder of it all. And it's just amazing.
 Yeah. Just open your eyes to the wonder of it. Yeah. While we're still here. Yeah. Bobby, it's a huge honor to finally meet you. I've been a fan for many, many years.
 It's an honor that you would even consider blowing me in the correct kind of circumstances. I think you would blow me in the right circumstances. I think that's the definition of love. Bobby, thanks so much for talking to me, brother. Thank you so much.
 Thanks for listening to this conversation with Bobby Lee. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Kurt Vonnegut.
 Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh since there's less cleaning to do afterward. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.