1 00:00:13,220 --> 00:00:20,100 Okay, good morning everybody. How are you? Yeah, I 2 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:23,100 mean since I left you, I've been trying to 3 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:27,440 diagnose why the sick was wrong, you know, why the 4 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:32,230 rose was sick. And, you know, I have not reached, 5 00:00:32,530 --> 00:00:37,350 like, a certain diagnosis. So today, hopefully, 6 00:00:37,830 --> 00:00:41,750 you'll help me to tell me what made the sick, I 7 00:00:41,750 --> 00:00:45,970 mean, the rose very sick. Today, you know, we're 8 00:00:45,970 --> 00:00:50,850 going to continue discussing the poem, I mean, in 9 00:00:50,850 --> 00:00:55,610 terms of form. and in terms of imagery as well. So 10 00:00:55,610 --> 00:00:59,210 if we have some imagery, because I think we 11 00:00:59,210 --> 00:01:03,270 discussed the figurative 12 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:07,330 language last time, did we? Okay, so let's do all 13 00:01:07,330 --> 00:01:09,370 of this together today, like we're going to look 14 00:01:09,370 --> 00:01:13,130 at everything today. And then we'll assign some 15 00:01:13,130 --> 00:01:20,750 time for symbolic interpretation. Okay. Oros thou 16 00:01:20,750 --> 00:01:21,350 art sick. 17 00:01:25,110 --> 00:01:28,310 Now, what kind of figure of speech is this? Oh 18 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:33,370 Rose, thou art sick. Yes, please. It is a 19 00:01:33,370 --> 00:01:38,930 personification. Like the rose is perceived or is 20 00:01:38,930 --> 00:01:43,540 personified like a person who is sick. who's sick. 21 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,020 Now, this is what we see in the poem. However, 22 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:51,300 this is a multi-layer figure of speech. Like the 23 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:54,400 rose itself, yes, it is like a person who's dead. 24 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:58,020 But we ask ourselves, what does this rose stand 25 00:01:58,020 --> 00:02:03,150 for? So, you know, after all, it is a symbol. You 26 00:02:03,150 --> 00:02:06,030 know, we have symbolism. It is a personal 27 00:02:06,030 --> 00:02:09,630 vocation, oh rose, thou art sick. And you know, 28 00:02:09,730 --> 00:02:14,650 this personal vocation even is made clearer by the 29 00:02:14,650 --> 00:02:20,250 apostrophe, oh rose, thou art sick. The invisible 30 00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:27,790 worm that flies in the night, in the howling 31 00:02:27,790 --> 00:02:32,110 storm, has found out thy bed of crimson joy. 32 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,980 Again, you know, the invisible worm is like what? 33 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,980 Yeah, it's like an intruder, a person. This is 34 00:02:45,980 --> 00:02:49,220 another personification. An intruder who is 35 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:54,890 invading the peaceful bed of the sick rose. has 36 00:02:54,890 --> 00:03:00,950 found out thy bed with crimson joy. 37 00:03:01,410 --> 00:03:05,210 Now, I think crimson joy, you know, what is it? It 38 00:03:05,210 --> 00:03:08,250 is oxymoron, because we have two contradictory, 39 00:03:08,670 --> 00:03:16,090 you know, ideas, two contradictory words. And his 40 00:03:16,090 --> 00:03:23,680 dark, secret love, it is a paradox. How come? You 41 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:29,040 know, love is dark and secret. Does thy life 42 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,460 destroy? So again, the rose is perceived like a 43 00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:38,000 person. If we are looking at the images, I think 44 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,580 we have visual images, we have color images, we 45 00:03:40,580 --> 00:03:44,680 have kinetic images. Or roses that are sick. 46 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,500 Usually roses are associated with which color? 47 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:53,470 Red, oh rose, thou art sick. And red is always 48 00:03:53,470 --> 00:03:58,390 associated with emotion and passion. The invisible 49 00:03:58,390 --> 00:04:02,430 worm, the invisible worm. You know, the tricky 50 00:04:02,430 --> 00:04:05,030 thing, this is like, as we said last time, it is 51 00:04:05,030 --> 00:04:09,670 invisible, you know, but literally it is not 52 00:04:09,670 --> 00:04:15,660 invisible. So invisible, it is like, Yeah, one 53 00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:19,140 side of it, like it is there, you know, physically 54 00:04:19,140 --> 00:04:23,340 it is there, it has a shape, it has a form, but it 55 00:04:23,340 --> 00:04:26,640 is abrupt, it is invisible, we don't know, it is 56 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,260 unpredictable, it is very precarious, very 57 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:36,080 precarious. That flies, I mean, even if you look 58 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,460 at the worm, the worm itself, has this disgusting 59 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:50,720 form, shape, and its movement is slow. It is very 60 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,260 slouching. But here, later, that flies. So it has 61 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:58,420 both characteristics. It moves slowly. However, 62 00:04:58,540 --> 00:05:02,640 when it defines 63 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:07,680 its target, it flies. And this adds more danger to 64 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:07,920 it. 65 00:05:11,660 --> 00:05:15,820 In the howling storm, I mean, the night, of 66 00:05:15,820 --> 00:05:18,660 course, it is dark. So we have the image of 67 00:05:18,660 --> 00:05:21,980 darkness. It's a visual image. In the howling 68 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:25,120 storm, we have a sound image, which, of course, 69 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:33,460 onomatopoeia. And we, like last time, we imitated 70 00:05:33,460 --> 00:05:40,570 the voice. It was very funny. has found out the 71 00:05:40,570 --> 00:05:43,890 bed of crimson joy. Here, again, you have two 72 00:05:43,890 --> 00:05:49,190 visual images. Joy, you know, I mean, sorry. Joy, 73 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:52,430 it's an abstract thing, but it's crimson joy. How 74 00:05:52,430 --> 00:05:58,090 come? How come joy is colorful? But we said, like, 75 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:02,310 crimson also associated with, you know, pain. So 76 00:06:02,310 --> 00:06:06,760 we're talking about, you know, a crimson fever, 77 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,740 it's fatal, painful joy. I don't think we have 78 00:06:11,740 --> 00:06:18,080 other images. Good. This is like what we call the 79 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,040 special language of poetry, which we might need to 80 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,560 use whenever we interpret. Now let's move to the 81 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:32,390 meter, which is very interesting and I think It 82 00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:35,410 poses some challenge for us, like in the act of 83 00:06:35,410 --> 00:06:36,030 interpretation. 84 00:06:39,690 --> 00:06:45,690 Oros, as you see, thou art sick. You know? 85 00:06:49,090 --> 00:06:53,930 Oros, thou art sick. As you see, there is scansion 86 00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:58,690 here. Oros, You know, stressed syllables. It 87 00:06:58,690 --> 00:07:01,830 started by two. You know, the poem, if you know, 88 00:07:02,290 --> 00:07:05,870 the meter of the poem is, and his dark secret 89 00:07:05,870 --> 00:07:11,290 love, which is like anabast. It is anabast. Two 90 00:07:11,290 --> 00:07:16,370 unstressed followed by one stress. Like here, this 91 00:07:16,370 --> 00:07:21,990 is the meter. and his dark secret love and his 92 00:07:21,990 --> 00:07:25,870 unstressed, unstressed, dark, strict, secret, two 93 00:07:25,870 --> 00:07:29,170 syllables, unstressed, and then love. This is the 94 00:07:29,170 --> 00:07:34,370 meter. What is happening here? There is, you know, 95 00:07:34,590 --> 00:07:39,390 what they call substitution. Like sometimes, you 96 00:07:39,390 --> 00:07:42,550 know, the anabas is substituted by another meter, 97 00:07:42,690 --> 00:07:47,110 by iambic or a spondee as it is happening here. Oh 98 00:07:47,110 --> 00:07:51,630 Rose, now why? Why? This is like we have to 99 00:07:51,630 --> 00:07:55,650 answer. Oh Rose, thou art sick. Why it is too 100 00:07:55,650 --> 00:08:02,210 stress? See? Think about it. The invisible world, 101 00:08:04,210 --> 00:08:09,490 If you look at the invisible, it is here, the in, 102 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:14,670 it is one syllable. So it is unstressed. 103 00:08:16,310 --> 00:08:23,350 The invisible worm, unstressed, the in, 104 00:08:26,110 --> 00:08:29,330 it's one syllable. If we look at it like this, 105 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:42,740 V, N, you know, and then visible, you know, this 106 00:08:42,740 --> 00:08:48,540 is like iambic, you know, it is unstressed. Then 107 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:52,920 you have visible, you know, visible, visible to 108 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,520 unstressed, you know, visible, sorry, to 109 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,480 unstressed, and then stressed. So anabast. The 110 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,090 same is happening here. That flies, you know, that 111 00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:15,510 flies, that flies in the night, in the night, you 112 00:09:15,510 --> 00:09:19,350 know, it is أنا بس. So we have two iambic 113 00:09:19,350 --> 00:09:23,650 substituted here. Then here, as you see, it is 114 00:09:23,650 --> 00:09:31,330 again what? Yes, أنا بس and then iambic. So it is 115 00:09:31,330 --> 00:09:35,910 reversing. Has found out thy bed, it is the same. 116 00:09:36,470 --> 00:09:40,990 Has found, it is anabas, and then iambic. Of the 117 00:09:40,990 --> 00:09:43,390 crimson joy, this is the only iambic. 118 00:09:45,870 --> 00:09:50,770 So it's pure iambic of, as you see, of crimson 119 00:09:50,770 --> 00:09:56,310 joy. And then this is like, you see what? And it's 120 00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:59,090 dark. This is the pure anabas. 121 00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:05,630 So it is foregrounded. It is foregrounded. Does 122 00:10:05,630 --> 00:10:09,850 thy life destroy? It is, you know, similar to this 123 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:13,010 line. It is too unstressed. It is unabashed 124 00:10:13,010 --> 00:10:17,150 followed by, you know, iambic. So what is this? 125 00:10:18,330 --> 00:10:22,650 It's really weird. It is strange. But usually in 126 00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:24,330 stylistics, we have something called 127 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:27,370 foregrounding. You know what's foregrounding? 128 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:31,110 Putting in the focus. You are taking stylistics. 129 00:10:31,210 --> 00:10:35,110 Today. Today. You are taking foregrounding. And 130 00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:38,310 foregrounding also is achieved by deviation. 131 00:10:38,890 --> 00:10:41,810 Because this deviates from the norm of the poem. 132 00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:47,210 These are the pure stylistic features. So what do 133 00:10:47,210 --> 00:10:53,670 you think? Why? Iambic has to do with melody, with 134 00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:56,710 musicality. 135 00:10:57,530 --> 00:11:02,930 Anabas has to do with sadness, subtlety, something 136 00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:08,570 like this. So what do you want to say? Why? And 137 00:11:08,570 --> 00:11:13,230 his dark secret love. He wants to evoke a certain 138 00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:14,970 mood. Yeah, he wants to? 139 00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:19,750 What mood do you think? 140 00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:25,310 Yes, 141 00:11:30,450 --> 00:11:33,250 I think here it's like the foreground is like 142 00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:36,810 because this is the most central. So we keep 143 00:11:36,810 --> 00:11:42,810 asking ourselves, how come? you know, is love 144 00:11:42,810 --> 00:11:47,390 which is always bright. It is very important, like 145 00:11:47,390 --> 00:11:48,910 to stress the importance. This is the most 146 00:11:48,910 --> 00:11:53,610 important line in the poem. Without understanding 147 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:56,150 this, you will never understand any 148 00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:59,750 interpretation. I mean, you know, you'll never 149 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:04,230 account very well for any interpretation. Your 150 00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:08,660 interpretation will be very weak. And his dark 151 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:13,260 secret love, you know, look here, and his dark 152 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:20,460 secret, you see, and his dark secret love does thy 153 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:27,710 life destroy. You see, you have six syllables and 154 00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:31,630 it goes like this, and his dark secret love. You 155 00:12:31,630 --> 00:12:35,710 know, the riddle invites us to meditate, to think 156 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:40,950 about this, and his dark secret love does die 157 00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:45,850 alive, destroy. But, you know, here again, why is 158 00:12:45,850 --> 00:12:48,630 it iambic pentameter? Yes? 159 00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:56,660 So even in the future we have violence. So yes, 160 00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,360 again, you know, you want to say like, the whole 161 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,900 poem, the dominant atmosphere of the poem is like 162 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:08,780 paradoxical. We have contrast, so this is part of 163 00:13:08,780 --> 00:13:11,920 the whole scheme, just giving us, you know, 164 00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,480 contrasting elements and inviting us to make sense 165 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,660 of these contrasting elements. You see? Yeah, and 166 00:13:17,660 --> 00:13:20,440 those two lines, maybe he's doing the 167 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,320 foregrounding. He's shedding light and focusing on 168 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,110 these two lines, on the paradox and the axiom. The 169 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:29,270 fact that there's something contradictory that we 170 00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:35,370 need to figure out. Yes. But let's go back to the 171 00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:39,730 beginning, you know. Oh, Rose. Oh, Rose. Why do... 172 00:13:39,730 --> 00:13:43,210 This is a spondee, what we call a spondee. Why? 173 00:13:43,850 --> 00:13:47,870 Oh, Rose, like... Oh, Rose. You know? Oh, Rose. 174 00:13:48,890 --> 00:13:51,270 They were sick. You know? It carries with it what? 175 00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:58,320 A sense of shock. Oh, Rose. They were sick, you 176 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,260 know? They were sick. Look at the anabas. They 177 00:14:01,260 --> 00:14:04,960 were sick. Like you're shocked. And then you say 178 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,000 with bitterness, with a sense of bitterness, they 179 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,660 were sick. You see? I think we can account for 180 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:16,400 this. We can account for this. But I don't want to 181 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:22,480 go deeper. I just want you to see this is the most 182 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,700 musical because we said like Ayambic, it is very 183 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:31,440 melodious. So what does he say of crimson joy? Is 184 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,900 he sarcastic? Is he sarcastic? Because this is not 185 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:41,960 something which invites or which reflects an 186 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,290 atmosphere of happiness, real happiness. So, given 187 00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:53,530 all these poetic aspects, I think it is very 188 00:14:53,530 --> 00:14:55,830 important, like, when we interpret, we take them 189 00:14:55,830 --> 00:14:58,310 into consideration. Yes, I want to say something. 190 00:14:58,390 --> 00:15:01,750 Yes, please. Since he started with A Rose Thou Art 191 00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:05,570 Set, we see that there is the, I think it is the 192 00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:08,290 conclusion of the whole story. So he started it 193 00:15:08,290 --> 00:15:11,370 from the end, and then he goes back to the reason 194 00:15:11,370 --> 00:15:16,980 why it is that. Yes. So I think for the five lines 195 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:19,180 at the beginning of the story, there is a kind of 196 00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:21,400 infusion between the iambic and the anapasitic 197 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,060 diameter. And then he started at the end to give 198 00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:29,280 us, I think, every meter alone. So here of Crimson 199 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,200 Joy, it is the iambic one. So he has given us the 200 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,800 reason. When it is so emotional, but it is, I 201 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:41,640 think, a negative emotion. And this is what we 202 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,960 mean by sarcastic. He's sarcastic. Yes, and then 203 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,080 the other line, and his dark secret love, it is 204 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,620 Anabaptistic also. So this is another conclusion 205 00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:54,640 for the first one, terms of joy, which is, I 206 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,900 think, it is so destructive. Yeah, and it is the 207 00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:59,500 only Anabaptist here in the whole poem. It is the 208 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:03,780 only Anabaptist. But it is the corner, I mean, it 209 00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:08,370 is the basis of the whole poem. Yes, very good. 210 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:11,470 Yes, I like this is you know, the main reason 211 00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:14,230 Look, this is the value of having two teachers, 212 00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,930 you know, we're complementing each other. Okay. 213 00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:22,050 Yes It is here like to focus like to say yes You 214 00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:25,190 know, this is the main reason it is dark secret 215 00:16:25,190 --> 00:16:34,680 love Yes Okay, let's a little bit immersed in the 216 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,780 symbolic interpretations. The rose, the invisible 217 00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:42,780 world. So we have two, you know, like two main 218 00:16:42,780 --> 00:16:47,960 symbols. Of course, we have the night, we have the 219 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,360 howling storm, we have, you know, the bed. What 220 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,340 else? You know, we have these things. So the rose 221 00:16:56,340 --> 00:17:02,140 stands for what? Yes? Nature. 222 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:13,420 Nature. And they were? Industrial revolution. Can 223 00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:16,940 you tell me, like, can you elaborate a little bit? 224 00:17:17,980 --> 00:17:20,020 Do you agree with her, like, about this 225 00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:23,560 interpretation? Which is very strong. If we are 226 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,940 looking back at the age of, you know, or the 18th 227 00:17:27,940 --> 00:17:30,780 century, let's say, you know, the age of Blake. 228 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:31,840 Yes? 229 00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:48,350 Okay, let's say, yes, we do agree with you. The 230 00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:50,990 rose, you know, stands for nature, which was 231 00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:54,590 abused by? The industrial revolution. The 232 00:17:54,590 --> 00:17:57,070 industrial revolution, and we mean pollution, you 233 00:17:57,070 --> 00:18:01,430 know, and the smoke of factories, et cetera. But 234 00:18:01,430 --> 00:18:05,250 here, if you come up with this interpretation, you 235 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:09,210 might need to look at dark secret love and the 236 00:18:09,210 --> 00:18:12,110 crimson joy. How? 237 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:21,060 You see? You see. Okay. If you, like, you need to 238 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:27,620 use these two images. Yes? Maybe it represents... 239 00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:32,100 No, let us stick to her. You see? Let us stick to 240 00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:35,420 her interpretation. How come, like, you know, 241 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,840 this, you know, the industrial revolution... What 242 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,140 does industrial revolution in nature have to do 243 00:18:41,140 --> 00:18:42,140 with dark secret love? 244 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:47,830 Well, people were indeed like, they were crazy 245 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:49,910 about industrial revolution. They were moving from 246 00:18:49,910 --> 00:18:52,670 the countryside. Yeah, excellent. They were really 247 00:18:52,670 --> 00:18:55,350 excited. They were getting into it. They were 248 00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:57,930 really involved. From the outside, you know, 249 00:18:57,990 --> 00:19:01,190 because it meant, you know, mainly the industrial 250 00:19:01,190 --> 00:19:06,430 revolution was meant to enhance the welfare of 251 00:19:06,430 --> 00:19:12,250 human beings. So ostensibly, it was for the 252 00:19:12,250 --> 00:19:17,010 service of humanity. But what happened, you know, 253 00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:20,570 like, but what is like what like whenever we have 254 00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:23,630 mechanization and whenever we have machines, do 255 00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:26,270 you think, you know, the main purpose of those who 256 00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:30,590 started like to enhance the, you know, to enhance 257 00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:36,690 the life of people or Yes. So most of these 258 00:19:36,690 --> 00:19:40,370 projects, you know, were just making money. And 259 00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:46,330 they might not care about the consequences. So 260 00:19:46,330 --> 00:19:48,910 those who invented the machines, okay, they 261 00:19:48,910 --> 00:19:52,210 wanted, you know, like mainly they wanted to make 262 00:19:52,210 --> 00:19:57,610 some money. Look in America, the North invaded the 263 00:19:57,610 --> 00:20:00,470 South because of money, because they wanted to 264 00:20:00,470 --> 00:20:04,170 sell their machines. I think also the war against 265 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:07,810 Iraq was to sell, you know, weapons for, you know, 266 00:20:08,370 --> 00:20:15,550 yeah. So you see what I mean? Yes. From the 267 00:20:15,550 --> 00:20:20,630 outside, it was for you know, the service of 268 00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:24,070 humanity, but honestly, like the, if you look 269 00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:28,850 back, you might find that, you know, the real 270 00:20:28,850 --> 00:20:34,130 reasons were not like that. So, people are 271 00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:39,450 fascinated, again, crimson joy. You enjoy, you 272 00:20:39,450 --> 00:20:44,130 have the washing machine, you know, you enjoy how 273 00:20:44,130 --> 00:20:49,830 it is very fast, how it is very speedy. Yes, you 274 00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:53,750 might not be aware of like the hidden things, you 275 00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:57,150 know, in it. And then, I don't know, like, I'm not 276 00:20:57,150 --> 00:21:00,230 warning you, but everything is safe. But imagine 277 00:21:00,230 --> 00:21:03,070 it has, you know, something we don't know, it 278 00:21:03,070 --> 00:21:06,170 might be very dangerous. Yeah, that's why it's 279 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:09,510 invisible more. Because it's a sight we don't 280 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:12,850 really notice and we don't be aware of. Yes, 281 00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:14,510 because the invisible... That's why it's 282 00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:16,870 invisible. Because it looks good. 283 00:21:20,030 --> 00:21:25,710 Good. So if you want like this is how we need to 284 00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:31,570 warrant to justify our interpretation. These are 285 00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:34,630 very central to any interpretation. Let's move to 286 00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:39,410 another interpretation. Yes? It can be represented 287 00:21:39,410 --> 00:21:39,970 as 288 00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:51,630 Innocence. Yeah, 289 00:21:56,770 --> 00:22:02,450 we can say, you know, like the innocence of people 290 00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:06,860 because the countryside people were innocent. And 291 00:22:06,860 --> 00:22:11,780 when industrialization intruded the countryside, 292 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,420 that innocence was lost. Even new values emerged, 293 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,720 new materialistic values emerged. So the whole 294 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,420 innocence was lost. And all of that was for the 295 00:22:25,420 --> 00:22:30,590 service of humankind. for what it works, like the 296 00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:32,990 sons of innocence and experience, for example, the 297 00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:34,670 chimney sweeper and the other one for the 298 00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:36,710 children. When they're innocent, they're playing, 299 00:22:36,910 --> 00:22:39,630 they're joyful in the countryside. And then when 300 00:22:39,630 --> 00:22:41,670 they go into the city, they become chimney 301 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:44,950 sweepers and it becomes all about them. Yeah, so 302 00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:48,750 we have like transformation in, you know, human, 303 00:22:49,130 --> 00:22:52,470 in the values of society. Yes, please. According 304 00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:55,470 to the ruling characteristics of his age, like for 305 00:22:55,470 --> 00:22:58,470 their narcissism, he was against them, he was 306 00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:02,070 running for enemies and it was normal to him. But 307 00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:05,550 they were here about just like the society and 308 00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:07,650 like their nature and rules. 309 00:23:23,620 --> 00:23:29,900 So his poetry which was rejected Okay, 310 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:35,740 so his poetry is like what? It's the sick rose and 311 00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:39,680 he's lamenting the fact that his poetry is not 312 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,940 accepted You know 313 00:23:46,750 --> 00:23:49,470 It's a good idea, but it needs hard work to 314 00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:52,510 justify. You see what I mean? It's good. I like it 315 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:59,390 very much. You know? Yes? It's the woman. Yeah, 316 00:23:59,530 --> 00:24:02,990 like this is what most of the critics would say. 317 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:05,950 And sometimes I say it could be a man, this cross. 318 00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:09,430 Because if you are taking Judy the Obscure, 319 00:24:10,890 --> 00:24:16,410 Hardy's last novel, Judy was a man. You know, who 320 00:24:16,410 --> 00:24:21,950 was like destroyed by a woman. So you can look at 321 00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:26,710 this both ways. Of course, any illegal, any 322 00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:30,730 illicit relationship might lead to this 323 00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:34,230 destruction. Destruction of fame, destruction of 324 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:37,620 reputation. And you know, we said last time, 325 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,540 satanic things, satanic things, we as Muslims, we 326 00:24:41,540 --> 00:24:45,500 know we are immune against such atrocities, such, 327 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,380 you know, misbehavior. Why? Because we know how 328 00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:52,960 Satan usually decorates things, makes them 329 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,000 beautiful, you know, and then, like, makes people 330 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,690 fall in the snares, you know. It's a kind of You 331 00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:06,090 know, attraction, it's a kind of... And then what 332 00:25:06,090 --> 00:25:10,610 happens after that? Remorse, regret, and you 333 00:25:10,610 --> 00:25:13,530 know... Life destroyed. Yeah. So this is like the 334 00:25:13,530 --> 00:25:15,490 crimson joy, which is, you know, very terrible. 335 00:25:15,630 --> 00:25:21,690 It's very destructive joy. But I want to, you 336 00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:26,650 know, stretch it more. And we mentioned last time 337 00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:27,990 teachers and students. 338 00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:35,930 Does this like teachers and students? You are the 339 00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:43,210 roles, yes? You are the roles. And now not us, not 340 00:25:43,210 --> 00:25:47,190 other people, you know? Okay, and you can be vice 341 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:53,550 versa. So how? How come? How come be like the 342 00:25:53,550 --> 00:25:57,690 students? Be like a rose, they are made sick. 343 00:25:57,750 --> 00:26:00,370 Maybe if they're corrupt, like sometimes when you 344 00:26:00,370 --> 00:26:03,170 talk about corrupted educational system, right? 345 00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:05,710 And you have like really bright students, but you 346 00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:07,870 have the system itself, the educational 347 00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:10,990 methodology, the teachers, everything is not 348 00:26:10,990 --> 00:26:13,590 really good, something that is actually harmful. 349 00:26:13,770 --> 00:26:17,530 It's destructive rather than instructive. The ways 350 00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:20,690 that they use are actually destroying the 351 00:26:20,690 --> 00:26:27,100 students' mentality, ability to think, the desire 352 00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:31,200 to learn, so it can be destructive. Yeah, and like 353 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,220 how can... They go to schools and they're 354 00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:35,560 expecting to learn, but they end up hating 355 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,400 schools. And when they, you know, these students, 356 00:26:38,540 --> 00:26:42,220 the same students might pass, you know, and they 357 00:26:42,220 --> 00:26:45,500 become very jovial, very happy, but when they want 358 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:49,420 to go and find a job, you know, they don't. You 359 00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:51,200 know why? Because they were not trained very well 360 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:51,800 for the job. 361 00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:59,940 holding and destructive ideas and beliefs from 362 00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:03,000 other cultures to destroy our own cultures and 363 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,440 beliefs. Yes, very good. And you know, all of 364 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,640 this, you know, is given the shape of progress, 365 00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:11,620 of, you know, wisdom, of fascination, you know. 366 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:12,300 Good. 367 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,320 Again, like parents and children. Parents and 368 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,960 children. If you spoil your children, it's joyful 369 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,300 to be spoiled and to have all this. How come? Yes, 370 00:27:31,420 --> 00:27:33,940 yes. It's joyful, but at the same time it ends up 371 00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:39,040 being destructive also. You end up being alone. 372 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:45,780 How would you characterize dark secret love? Do 373 00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:48,600 you think like parents might hold this kind of 374 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,520 love to their kids? Yes. Yes. Maybe when the 375 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480 parents love their children very much, they will 376 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:01,360 keep them in the house. There is no there is no 377 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,140 when parents are 378 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,280 they go to the outside, they will find another 379 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:16,340 word, not like the word they imagined in their 380 00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:19,480 mind. So they will destroy them. Yeah, I mean, 381 00:28:19,940 --> 00:28:22,660 overprotection, over love, this is what we call 382 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:25,880 perverted love. Perverted love. You know what it 383 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,180 means? Upside-down love. Perverted. 384 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:37,490 And this could be one of the many themes of the 385 00:28:37,490 --> 00:28:42,790 poem. Perverted, it is upside down. How come? You 386 00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:47,910 know? Yes, you're right. If we tend to love our 387 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:50,930 kids or even our students too much to the extent 388 00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:56,170 that we put up with their mistakes. We tolerate 389 00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:59,790 their mistakes. We don't care when they commit 390 00:28:59,790 --> 00:29:03,670 mistakes. So they develop and we always make 391 00:29:03,670 --> 00:29:07,250 available everything they need. We don't let them 392 00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:12,790 think or fret how to find like what they need. So 393 00:29:12,790 --> 00:29:17,800 they will develop into very dependent you know, 394 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,920 personalities. And this is like, we're harming 395 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,000 them, we're destroying them. When they go on their 396 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:31,380 own, like in life, they will be unable to manage. 397 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:35,780 You see what I mean? Good. What other 398 00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:41,740 interpretations do you have for this? So far we 399 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:48,180 mentioned Nature and you know, 400 00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:59,860 love and pure love and what? I think if you love, 401 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,940 you describe by jealousy. Very good. Yeah, 402 00:30:04,140 --> 00:30:07,560 jealousy. Nobody has talking about jealousy. 403 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,180 Nobody has talking about, you know, talked about 404 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:22,360 Yes. No, I mean, hypocrisy, you know, the 405 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,840 hypocrites, sometimes friends, like two friends 406 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,520 who are, you know, one friend is making an 407 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,380 advantage of the other. And this friend, like, 408 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,960 pretends to be a friend, but his, you know, 409 00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:47,060 motives are sinister. So you might find some 410 00:30:47,060 --> 00:30:53,620 people whom you don't see as pernicious. You don't 411 00:30:53,620 --> 00:30:59,600 see them harmful, but they are the invisible. They 412 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,780 work very hard to destroy you. It happens. Some 413 00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:07,480 people are devilish. Evil is there. So we have to 414 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,140 be very careful. We have to, you know, make sure 415 00:31:12,140 --> 00:31:16,460 that the motives of those people are genuine, you 416 00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:21,300 know. Yeah. Yes, Hidayat, what do you want to say? 417 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,860 Yeah, which is the interpretation of life. most 418 00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:38,920 honorable interpretation of the parenthood. Okay, 419 00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:42,460 you like this interpretation. But here, yes? 420 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,080 Another interpretation, when exaggerating 421 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:53,380 confidence in someone. Confidence is a good thing, 422 00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:57,180 but when it arises in someone, it will destroy 423 00:31:57,180 --> 00:31:58,600 him. It becomes pride. 424 00:32:02,330 --> 00:32:08,410 Okay, so Blake wrote poetry which invited us to 425 00:32:08,410 --> 00:32:12,810 think, to imagine. And that was something against 426 00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:17,630 the expectation, the norm of the time. That, you 427 00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:20,490 know, was a revolutionary way of writing poetry. 428 00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:24,030 It is revolutionary. As you see, he's not 429 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:27,330 following. And even the rhyme, it is, we don't 430 00:32:27,330 --> 00:32:32,290 have the heroic couplet. You see? So it is A, B, 431 00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:35,390 C, D, you know. We don't have the heroic couplet. 432 00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:39,570 We don't have the rules, you know, like the poetic 433 00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:45,150 diction. Okay? And it's poetry which invites us to 434 00:32:45,150 --> 00:32:51,170 think, to imagine. What is the theme? It's giving 435 00:32:51,170 --> 00:32:54,750 space to the reader. Yes. And what is he writing 436 00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:58,430 about? He's writing about, not Belinda, not 437 00:32:58,430 --> 00:33:02,690 Ashtiful, like great people. He's talking about a 438 00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:08,430 rose, a rose, you know? A simple, you know, plant, 439 00:33:08,990 --> 00:33:13,430 a rose. So, I mean, the topic or what is he 440 00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:15,850 talking about is simple, something drawn from 441 00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:22,130 nature. Now, I think this is a revolutionary way. 442 00:33:22,890 --> 00:33:27,650 As you see here, he is writing in a fashion which 443 00:33:27,650 --> 00:33:30,910 is not in agreement with the expectation of the 444 00:33:30,910 --> 00:33:39,730 time. That's why he was stigmatized as mad. But we 445 00:33:39,730 --> 00:33:48,040 cannot understand Blake until we, like, go through 446 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,840 other poems. And next time I think we're doing The 447 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,020 Tiger. It seems like everybody's fascinated with 448 00:33:57,020 --> 00:34:04,560 The Tiger. Okay. So I think The Tiger is another 449 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,160 one. Did you teach any like when you were teaching 450 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:13,800 Blake? The Tiger? What did you teach? London. The 451 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,940 Chartered Streets. Yes. 452 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:25,270 The Tomb Sweeper, The Black Boy, The Lamb. 453 00:34:29,470 --> 00:34:36,530 Yeah, it folds. You see, the songs of innocence 454 00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:41,790 are the songs of experience. Like here, this is 455 00:34:41,790 --> 00:34:45,170 how he saw the word. He saw the words in 456 00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:47,630 dichotomy. But did he see there that they were 457 00:34:47,630 --> 00:34:49,450 complementary? The song of innocence? I mean 458 00:34:49,450 --> 00:34:53,150 innocence and experience? In what sense? 459 00:34:59,570 --> 00:35:02,190 Yes, in order to complete. Because he actually, in 460 00:35:02,190 --> 00:35:04,170 the sense of innocence, he is interested in the 461 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:07,690 childlike vision. I think it is the innocence time 462 00:35:07,690 --> 00:35:10,310 of the children before they are getting corrupted 463 00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:13,830 by the experience, before they are becoming 464 00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:16,710 adults, and I think they are immersed in life and 465 00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:19,610 getting more experience in it. And then he came 466 00:35:19,610 --> 00:35:21,750 back to, I think- So does he mean by the 467 00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:24,610 experience, like, you know, the learning of the 468 00:35:24,610 --> 00:35:27,230 time, the religion of the time, which was full of 469 00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:31,520 hypocrisy? This is experience, the experience like 470 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,760 which is spoiled, you know? And this is what made 471 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,160 him, I think, you know, because he, you know, 472 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,160 Blake was confused during his time because he 473 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,160 looked at Christianity and those who were supposed 474 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,400 to be, you know, like good people, virtuous people 475 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,340 were devilish, satanic, were corrupted. I mean, 476 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,800 the church during his time was corrupted. And 477 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,340 that's why he wrote something called The Marriage 478 00:35:58,340 --> 00:36:02,680 Between Earth and Heaven, I think, you know, in 479 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,460 which, like in the hell, like they were, you know, 480 00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:09,140 the good and the bad were walking hand in hand. 481 00:36:09,870 --> 00:36:15,430 Yes, it is very central, as we mentioned in his 482 00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:18,970 philosophy, that without contraries, there is no 483 00:36:18,970 --> 00:36:25,570 progression. Yes, Blake saw that we need 484 00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:29,290 experience, which represents order. We need 485 00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:32,250 innocence, but there should be a balanced 486 00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:36,010 relationship between them. Otherwise, if 487 00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:41,270 experience is too much, like in this, you know, so 488 00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:44,660 what happens? It leads to destruction. You know? 489 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,460 And again, also the tiger, it leads to 490 00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:50,300 destruction. So there should be a kind of balance 491 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:53,520 in order to have like a good human being. But 492 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,980 after all, this is, you know, a free voice. This 493 00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:59,680 is the voice of individual who is very creative. 494 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,760 You know, we have a voice which was denied during 495 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,500 the 18th century. I'm going to teach them the 496 00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:12,660 tiger, tiger, tiger, burning bride. And this is 497 00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:15,400 next time we're doing. So I think the sick rose 498 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,620 and the tiger are from the songs of experience. 499 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,540 Yes, experience. We're not teaching any other. You 500 00:37:20,540 --> 00:37:23,000 know, because this, we leave this to romanticism, 501 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,520 you know? Okay. Okay. Thank you very much for 502 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,300 listening to us. You know, do you have any 503 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,500 question? No. Okay, thank you.