From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Question for those with popular morality 
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa
Lines: 103


In article <1993Apr02.025636.23256@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>/Why would it be immoral to hurt someone else?  
>
/(me)
>Because you wouldn't want it to happen to you.

/(hudson)
/Why does that make something immoral?



Because you are not being consistent.  Moral systems must be consistent.

A person who thinks they can inflict pain on others, but doesn't want it 
inflicted upon themselves, has a double standard.  And double standards are
a violation of *any* moral system.





(me)
>Morality defines how we interact with other people; the rules that we
>use to guide our daily affairs.  Our conduct towards our fellow man.  By
>realizing that we don't like pain, we can also realize that other people
>don't like it, either.  

/(hudson)
/Of course we don't like pain.  I don't like brussel sprouts.  Are brussel
/sprouts immoral?

Pain isn't immoral, stupid.  Pain itself is just a physiological
reaction.  

What >>is<< immoral is subjecting unwilling individuals to pain.

Or brussel sprouts, for that matter.






(hudson)
>/Is it immoral to produce these same chemical reactions in a test tube?
>
(me)
>It isn't the chemical reaction that is wrong, bozo.  It's making the human
>being UNDERGO THE EFFECTS of the chemical reaction.  Sorry; your cute
>little analogy didn't survive for very long under scrutiny.

/(hudson)
/Why would it be wrong to make humans undergo the effects of the reactions
/if humans are composed only of matter?  

What humans are composed of isn't the qualifying criteria of whether or
not something would be wrong.  




/(hudson)
/Is it wrong to make matter undergo chemical reactions?

Yes, if it is sentient matter.



/(me)
/>Nature is not a sentient force; there is no choice involved.  Therefore,
/>no question of morality.


/(hudson)
/I actually heard a geologist entertain the notion that matter had a will.
/There is some sentient force out there.  

Fine.  I have also heard that the government is encoding the DNA for 
a new race of superhumans in ordinary drinking water.  

What's your point?



/(hudson)
/If humans are made only of matter, then choices are also chemical reactions,
/so why is choice an important issue.

And if that is the case, then god is only an idea contained in the minds
of people (formed of matter) and on printed pages (also formed of matter)
and does not really exist.  

I can do the argumentem ad absurdium just as well as you can, but it 
won't prove any points for you or me.  Got anything relevant you want to 
talk about, or are you just playing cute little games?







