From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Subject: Re: Is it good that Jesus died?
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.
Lines: 71

In article <bskendigC5L782.JM5@netcom.com> bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:

>John 12:24-26: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat
>falls onto the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it
>produces much grain.
>  "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in
>this world will keep it for eternal life.
>  "If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My
>servant will be also.  If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."
>
>Why would I want an eternal life if I hate this one?

Again, you missed Jesus's point.  If you read the surrounding passages
you would understand what Jesus means by "life in the world."  But
as is, you bumbled around, asserted your standard axiom that the Bible is bunk,
and came up with the wrong idea.  Also, you do not know exactly
what Jesus means by eternal life.  

Brian K., do you expect to jump in the middle of the quantum mechanics
book and understand Hermite polynomials having not read the surrounding
material?  Why do you such with the Bible?  For an idea what Jesus
means by the world, look up references to it in your concordance.  For
a good description, the whole Book of Ecclesiastes is game.  For 
eternal life, check out John 17:3, John 3:15-16.  You will find that
eternal life is quite different than what you think.  Eternal life
starts NOW--an infinitely high quality of life living in fellowship
with God.


>In short: even if your deity *does* exist, that doesn't automatically
>mean that I would worship it.  I am content to live my own life, and
>fend for myself, so when I die, I can be proud of the fact that no
>matter where I end up, it will be because of *my* actions and *my* choices.
>
>If your god decides to toss me into a flaming pit for this, then so be
>it.  I would much rather just cease to exist.  But if your god wants
>my respect and my obedience, then it had better earn these; and if it
>does, then they will be very strong and true.

If my diety exists, you would not just cease to exist.  Jesus talks of
hell in Luke 16:19-31.  


>You've got to understand my point-of-view: I see Christians spouting
>Bible verse all the time as if it were some sort of magic spell that
>will level all opposition.  Truth is, it's not.  Robert has never
>demonstrated that he actually understands what the verses imply; he
>just rattles them off day by day.  Some brazenly fly in the face of
>common sense and reality, and I point these out where I can.


The truth is, is that it is not some sort of magic spell.  The truth
is is that you do not understand it, and enjoy not understanding it.

>Christanity is a very nice belief set around a very nice book. 


Wrong again.  Christianity is supposed to be relationship.  You
do not even know what Christianity is and you are arguing against
it.

>And in my opinion, you're bumbling about blindly making up entities
>where there aren't any, and depriving yourself of a true understanding
>and enjoyment of your life.  As long as you keep your beliefs to
>yourself, I'll keep my beliefs to myself -- but as soon as you start
>waving them around, expect me to toss in my opinions, too.

Just as I make up such places as Jericho, Jerusalem, Babylon, Corinth,
Ephesus, Susa, and such kings as Nebuchanezzar, David, Solomon,
Sennacherib, Herod, Pontius Pilate . . . .   But I guess then
that you treat Abraham Lincoln as a myth like you do Odin and Zeus.
