From: roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby)
Subject: Re: BATF/FBI Murders Almost Everyone in Waco Today! 4/19
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 85

In article <1r27ld$bp2@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <C5t38G.IL@news.udel.edu>, roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes:
>> In article <1r1rad$7rl@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>> >In article <C5s0Ds.J54@news.udel.edu>, roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby) writes:
>> 
>>   [The original question was about who started the fire and whether the 
>>    "madmen" were inside or outside the compound.  To which I replied on 
>>    the possible sanity level of those inside and outside.]
>
>Was THAT your argument.  Well, you didn't make it very well.  You started 
>from the questionable premise that the fire was necessarily an act of
>insanity, rather than an act of negligence or an accident.  Recall, one
>survivor claims that the fire started when a tank knocked over a kerosene 
>lamp.  Kind of makes arguments regarding relative sanity somewhat moot, no?

And another survivor claims he heard someone shouting "The fire's started!".
Odd terminology.  That's what one says when you know a fire is planned, not 
when one occurs by accident.  We will have to wait and see what the evidence 
shows, assuming one is willing to believe any evidence offered by the 
"distrustful ones".

>> >> According to an Australian documentary made in the year before the stand off 
>> >> began, Koresh and his followers all believed he was Christ.  Koresh 
>> >> had sex with children and women married to other men in the compound.  
>> >> These were the "perfect children" resulting from the "great seed" of 
>> >> his "magnified horn".  Ex-members describe him in ways not dissimilar 
>> >> to the way Jim Jones has been described.
>> >
>> >Point noted.  Have you submitted YOUR faith and sex life for BATF clearance?
>> >Better hurry; I believe the deadline was April 15.
>> 
>> I paid my taxes.  There was no reference to sex or religion on the form.
>> The comments above and below were meant to address who might be unstable 
>> enough to keep children in a building with tear gas or start a fire.
>
>"Nice evasive maneuver, Mr. Chekov, but they're still on our tail."
>
>Let me ask it more plainly.  Which of the above complaints about David 
>Koresh's religious or sexual proclivities justified an armed raid by the 
>Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?

Neither.  Again I was merely addressing the sanity level of the players.  
I agree that the BATF handled the affair badly from day one.  BTW, I heard 
on the news today that the affadavit behind the no-knock warrant was unsealed 
today.  Grenade launcher was the only thing on the list that I found 
unusual.

>> >> >:Two of the nine who escaped the compound said the fire was deliberately set 
>> >> >:by cult members.
>
>> >> So, when they talk to the news reporters directly, and relate the same details, 
>> >> will you believe them?
>
>> >Believe them?  I won't even RECOGNIZE them.  And neither will anyone else
>> >who doesn't know them personally.
>
>> Do you believe they would put impostors before the national tv cameras?
>
>It's not entirely far-fetched.  Nobody outside the compound would know 
>EVERYBODY inside the compound.  Don't forget, the BATF admits having 
>agents inside the compound, in any case.

Ambitious news reporters could use the documentary filmed by an Australian 
in 1992 on the compound grounds to help identify survivors.  I, for one, 
will check their stories for consistency with what I learned in a long 
news story about that documentary.

>> At this point, we are getting conflicting reports from the survivors.
>> Best wait til more light is shed upon them.  Of course, this is no 
>> good if you believe in eternal darkness.
>
>I'm simply being the devil's advocate.  There's reasonable doubt by the
>boatload standing in the way of anybody totally swallowing the official 
>government story on Waco.

Certainly there is some room for doubt.  I certainly reserve the right 
to change my opinions when new evidence warrants such a change.  If I 
were conspiratorially minded, however, I would never be able to change 
my mind, because any evidence I disliked would have to be a lie 
fabricated by the "distrustful ones".


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