From: hallam@dscomsa.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Will Italy be the Next Domino to Fall?
Lines: 101
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESYDeutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA


In article <C5GK0w.J8H@newsserver.technet.sg>, ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes:

|>Will Italy be the Next Domino to Fall?
|>
|>
|>
|>Socialism may have collapsed in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Disunion
|>but it lingers on in Western Europe and the United States. It remains
|>the primary ideology in the hearts and minds of the liberal academia
|>and media. But all the political correctness they can muster may not be
|>sufficient to hold back the economic forces that threaten to spread
|>socialism's collapse from the second world to the first. Indeed, it is
|>becoming more apparent every day that socialism may not even survive
|>the turn of the century.

Ed of course has never demonstrated remarkable knowlege of socialism, 
or any other political system come to that.

|>While the Swedes have already discarded their "third way" and the
|>French have made history by turning out the Socialist Party in a 
|>record-setting defeat, it is Italy that appears most precariously
|>on the edge of its political existence.

That leaves Germany, Japan and the UK as examples of a country where the
right wing government is on the verge of collapse. Oh and of course the USA
which just elected a socialist government :-)

|>Italy, today, is a basket-case even by European standards. It has
|>introduced 17 new taxes in 5 months and public-sector revenue is at or
|>near the 50% of GDP mark. 

Etc, unfortunately you can't pin this on the left or the right, both are
to blame. Both sides are equally deep into the corruption scandal. The only 
untained party is the northern league which is a bunch of nationalist
separatists and the communist party which has collapsed.


|>In spite of this political gluteny, it has
|>an annual deficit exceeding the sum of all other EC countries and a
|>public debt 2.5 times that of Latin America. Italy is understandably
|>having serious trouble selling its treasury bonds in the markets. And
|>while Italy is an extreme case, it is anything but unique; all
|>European governments appear headed in the same direction in spite of
|>their nominally non-socialist governments.
|>
|>Unfortunately, Europeans being, well, Europeans, it is very unlikely
|>that they will discover American-style liberty. Instead, they will
|>likely lurch from socialism to fascism as quickly as they had moved
|>from fascism to socialism never pausing along the way to reasseses the
|>role of government, itself. I hope I am wrong.

Ed should take a look at the budget deficit Regan and Bush created together
before he starts to make claims about europe collapsing based on the budget
deficits here. None of them are serious on the USA scale.

And here in Europe we have zero interest in Ed-Ipser type freed thank you.
We do not want our countries to be run by a narrow elite of rich lawyers
for the benefit of the super wealthy. We are quite happy with social 
democracy and despite the fuss made in Time and Newsweek there is remarkably
little being done to reverse the social welfare reforms brought in by
socialism.

The problem with socialism is that it started with the aims of free education
and health care and provision of the welfare state. This has been achieved
across the whole of Europe, only the USA is struggling to catch up. The
problem for socialism is what to do now it has succeeded.


|>Nobody ever claimed that the collapse of socialism would be pretty.
|>The decline of the nation-state will probably lead first to anarchy
|>since politicians always cut essential services before pork. Los
|>Angeles has rampant crime and frantically waits for the next wave of
|>riots but it has a spanking new subway that nobody wants to use and
|>which, like every other public transit system in the world, will never
|>be economically viable. (If you were trying to extort tax payers,
|>which would you cut first, mass transit or police protection?)

Ed starts to discus LA, presumably he thinks that it is in Europe. On
the other hand he most probably hasn't heard of a European city.

|>Thus does the world hurtle toward chaos even as the 21st century
|>approaches.

Rather the opposite. What is happening in Italy is that the communist party
has collapsed. This has meant that the grand coalition between right and
left wing parties to keep out the communists has also collapsed. The 
magistrates have seized this opportunity to crack down hard on fraud and 
corruption and have arrested half the politicians. The fact that the socialists
are in charge this week is incidental, the right is into the corruption just
as baddly.

What looks likely to happen is the fringe parties are going to do much
better in the next election. Most of the parliamentary deputies are going
to get replaced and the parties are going to be forced to look to people
who are free of any hint of corruption. Look out for a parliament of
Pavarotti's and porn stars.


Phill Hallam-Baker

