From: noye@midway.uchicago.edu (vera shanti noyes)
Subject: Re: Why do people become atheists?
Reply-To: noye@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 92

In article <May.7.01.09.59.1993.14571@athos.rutgers.edu> mayne@nu.cs.fsu.edu writes:
>In article <May.5.02.50.42.1993.28665@athos.rutgers.edu> Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) writes:
[why are atheists atheists/ believes it could be the result of
"brokenness"]

>This is condescending at best and a slightly disquised ad hominem
>attack. This attitude on the part of many theists, especially the
>vocal ones, is one reason for the hostility you sense. How do you
>like it when atheists say that people turn to religion out of
>immature emotionalism?

i agree -- if you are going to find out anything from people who don't
share your beliefs, do not attack them or condescend to them and hope
to get a neutral picture of them.  come to them with an open mind.

>I don't believe that atheists are generally any more "broken"
>than anybody else. Any cause and effect is likely to be the
>other way. There is an emotional price to pay for being different,
>hearing one's beliefs (or lack thereof) condemned, and one's
>motives and character attacked.

well, you do believe in something, as i see it, even if it is a sort
of "anti-belief" (no negative connotation meant; i mean simply that
you believe that God _does not_ exist).  christians can also feel that
sense of "difference", however, when they are associated with "those
weird televangelists who always talk about satan".  if you'll excuse
the cliched sound of this, everyone has to deal with his/ her
differences from other people.  i can understand how being an atheist
could be hard for you; being a christian is sometimes hard for me.

>I became an atheist when I got old enough to reason because there
>was just no good reason to believe the religion I had been taught.
>This was very painful because of the pressure I was placed under by
>my family and friends. I wanted to fit in, believe, and be accepted.
>I tried, but finally the cognitive dissonance was just too great.

you should not have to repress how you feel -- you should be able to
discuss it without fear.  i think there are admirable things to learn
from any belief, which can enrich your own -- by asking myself the
questions that atheists may ask me, i can learn the answers and become
stronger in my faith.  if my faith can't support knowing the answers
to those questions, it is weak and untrue. 

>I have sympathy for gays growing up in repressive environments and
>having to hide and sometimes at first try to deny a part of themselves
>because I've been there. Only in my case it was my rationality instead
>of sexuality which I was forced to try to repress.

in some way the pressures were different, of course, because you
"chose" your beliefs -- or are you saying that they were not your
choice, but born of necessity?  [please, no flames about whether or
not gay people "choose" their lifestyle -- that's elsewhere in this
newsgroup]

> I must say that I
>wasn't hurt by my experiences in church any more than some of my friends
>who didn't become atheists. I was just hurt differently.

i'm not sure i understand this sentence -- could you explain?

[moderator points out that many/ most atheists aren't "hostile", they
just cease believiing in xiantiy/ religion]

>True. Consider also that people like Pat Robertson and many of the
>Christian extremists in soc.religion.christianity naturally evoke
>hostility by their attacks on anyone who disagrees and their attempts
>to force their views on others. You are known by the company you keep.
>Christians trying to preach in alt.atheism should not be surprised by
>hostility.

ouch, yes.  part of being a christian is accepting _everyone_ with an
open heart -- including people of "our own camp" with whom we
completely disagree.  by the same token, i believe that accusation and
suspicion are not the best way to reach out to those not of our faith,
nor is it effective to try to browbeat people into accepting our
religion.  i have a different idea of mission: be what i am, a
christian who is happy in her faith, and if others see that and want
to know about either the happiness or the religion, i'll share what i
know without pressure and let them make their own decisions.  at some
point you just have to agree to disagree -- acceptance of diversity,
not uniformity, is the way to sow peace....

>Bill Mayne

vera noyes

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I am your CLOCK!     |  I bind unto myself today    | Vera Noyes
I am your religion!  |  the strong name of the	    | noye@midway.uchicago.edu
I own you!	     |  Trinity....		    | no disclaimer -- what
	- Lard	     |	- St. Patrick's Breastplate | is there to disclaim?
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