From: david@terminus.ericsson.se (David Bold)
Subject: Re: Question for those with popular morality
Reply-To: david@terminus.ericsson.se
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In article Fo2@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU, pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky) writes:

<Moral Driver distinctions deleted>

>>In this case, the Driver does not evolve but simply Is. There would
>>probably not be any manifestation in an infant  because the Moral
>>Code has not been learnt yet (ie. the object upon which the Driver
>>acts upon). 
>
>Without manifestation, though, how can the Driver be detected? For
>all purposes it seems not to exist until Moral Coding begins.
>Actually, I agree with your notion of a Driver, except that I think
>it's not moral but pre- (and super-)moral. It is, as I mentioned
>earlier in this thread, a primal sense of connection, a pre- and
>post-natal umbilical the awareness of which is expressed in a
>partial, fragmented way that accomodates (and forms, in return) the
>language and customs of a given culture. This halting, pidgin-english
>expression is, I think, what we come to call 'morality'. 

Compare the Driver to an urge such as Jealousy, where there is an urge
and an "object". The jealousy does not technically exist until the object
is apparent. However, the capacity to be jealous is presumably still there
even though it is not detectable.

Your description of the Unbilical took me three passes to understand (!) but
I get the gist and I have to tentatively agree. I think our two definitions
can sit side by side without too much trouble, though. I haven't attempted to
define the reason behind the Moral Driver (only hinted through the essence of
each Moral). Your definition hints that animals are also capable of a
similar morality - Simians have a similar Social Order to ourselves and it is
easy to anthropomorphize with these animals. Is this possible or have I
misunderstood?

>
>>>>If my suggestion holds true then this is the area where work must be
>>>>carried out to prevent a moral deterioration of Society,
>
>>>What kind of work, exactly?
>
>>Well, here you have asked the BIG question. [...]
>>I have a slight suspicion that you were hoping I would say
>>something really contentious in this reply (from your final question).
>
>No, not at all. I was just wondering if you subscribed to some
>particular school of psycho-social thought and rehabilitation, and if
>perhaps you had a plan. I'd have been interested to hear it. 
>

My p.s. thoughts falls roughly in line with John Stuart Mill and
his writings on Utilitarianism. I have no particular plan (except to do
my bit - personal ethics AND social work). My opinion (for what it is worth)
is that the Authority for each Moral must be increased somehow, and that this
will probably take several generations to be effective. I don't think that the
list of Morals has changed for Society significantly, though . The Authority element
may come from our authority figures and roles models (see Eric Berne and his
transactional analysis work [+ Mavis Klein] for references) and this is what
gives rise to a deterioration of moral standards in the long term.

I've had some more thoughts on my definitions:

I've was thinking that I should add Moral Character to the list of definitions
in order to get a dynamic version of the Moral Nature (ie. the interplay of
the Moral Code and associated Authorities). A suitable analogy might be a
graphic equaliser on a HiFi system - the Moral Nature being the set of
frequencies and the chosen 'amplitudes', and the Moral Character being the
spectrum over time.

Conscience is a little more difficult because I can't define it as the
reasoning of a person between actions in the context of his Moral Nature
because Conscience seems to cut in most of the time unbidden and often
unwanted. I think Conscience is manifest when a decision is made at a given
time which compromises one's Moral Nature. My Conscience fits in more with
Freud's SuperEgo (plus the Moral Driver) with the stimulous being the
urges or Freud's Id. The reasoning that I mentioned before is Freud's Ego,
I suppose. If the Moral Driver is part of the Id then the reason why
Conscience cuts in unbidden is partially explained. The question is "what
provides the stimulous to activate the Moral driver?". I think I need some
more time with this one.

That's about it for now!

David.

---
On religion:

"Oh, where is the sea?", the fishes cried,
As they swam its clearness through.

