Transcript of Chris Poole before the Honorable Thomas W. Phillips
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TENNESSEE
NORTHERN DIVISION, AT KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE

United States of America, Government
Vs.
David C. Kernell

Transcript of Chris Poole before the Honorable
Thomas W. Phillips on April 22, 2010.
APPEARANCES:
ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT:
D. Gregory Weddle
Mark Krotoski
Assistants U.S. Attorney
ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
Wade V. Davies
Ann E. Passino
Attorneys at Law
Jolene Owen, R.P.R.
800 Market Street, Suite 131
P.O. Box 2201
Knoxville, Tennessee, 37901
(865) 384-6585

THE COURT: Your next witness, Mr. Weddle.
MR. WEDDLE: Chris Poole.
CHRIS POOLE
was first duly sworn and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. KROTOSKI:

Q. Good morning. Can you please state and spell
your full name for the record.
Christopher Poole, C-h-r-i-s-t-o-p-h-e-r
P-o-o-l-e.
Q. And it's important that everyone hear you. If
you can move the microphone a little bit closer to you.
I am sorry.
Q. Are you associated with the Internet site
known as 4chan.org?
Yes.
Q. Who is the founder of that site?
I am.
Q. Approximately when was it founded?
October 1st, 2003.
Q. And what is your role with that site?
I am the founder and administrator.
Q. Can you tell the jury, are you also known by
other names on the site?
Yes, my moniker is Moot, M-o-o-t.
Q. And if a user of your site wanted to contact
you by e-mail, what is one of the e-mails they might do
that?
moot@4chan.org.
Q. Please tell the jury what is 4chan.org?
4chan is a forum. It's an image board, so
it's just kind of a forum that the primary focus is the
posting of images.
Q. So you say an image forum. Is there a
requirement that participants, when they submit an
original post, include an image?
Yes, all threads, all new threads require an
image to be posted.
THE COURT: Mr. Poole, you need to move a
little closer to the microphone so the jurors can hear
your testimony.

Q. Is there a fee charged for users of the 4chan
site?
No.
Q. Does 4chan have advertisements?
Yes.
Q. And are they on nearly every page?
Yes.
Q. Is 4chan considered a popular site?
Yes.
Q. And can you describe that briefly, please.
What sort of matrix or measurements suggest that it
might be a popular site?
As of now in the past 30 days the site
received approximately hits from nine and a half million
unique visitors.
Q. And that is during a 30 day cycle?
Yes.
Q. And for visitor users of the 4chan site, are
there certain rules that must be followed?
Yes, there is a codified set of rules on the
rule page.
Q. And is there a page known as the /b/ board or
Random /b/ board?
Yes.
Q. And sometimes it is said that there is very
little rules on the /b/ board?
Yes.
Q. However, do certain rules apply?
Yes, there is a note that all /b/ global or a
handful of /b/ global rules apply to the /b/ board.
Q. And what is the first rule for the /b/ board
and all boards?
Do not post any material that violates local
or United States law.
Q. Now, are there moderators that assist the
4chan site?
Yes.
Q. What is their role?
Moderators are tasked with the deletion of
rule infringing content and banishment of users who
break these rules.
Q. And what ability do the moderators have to
remove content from the site?
They can delete it. They can delete offending
posts and they can block users from using the website.
Q. In front of you in one of the books there, if
you can please turn to what has been marked as
Government Exhibit 125. Do you recognize that exhibit
marked Government Exhibit 125?
(Exhibit No. G-125 was marked for
identification.)
Yes.

Q. Does it fairly and accurately show some of the
pages of the 4chan site, as they were used in September
of 2008?
Yes.
MR. KROTOSKI: The government moves into
evidence Government Exhibit 125.

THE COURT: It will be received.
(Exhibit No. G-125 was received
in evidence.)
BY MR. KROTOSKI:

Q. I would like to see if we can display that on
the terminal next to you. Now, this page that is
depicted here, 4chan, is this the home page?
Yes.
Q. And can you describe the various sections of
the page, and if you would like you can circle it on the
screen or designate which portion you are talking about.
The top of the page has an introduction that
displays the first time when you visit the page. Under
that are the links to the individual boards. This
bottom area is all dynamic content. When you refresh
the page, it will show you recent images and recent
posts that have been made. At the bottom there is
navigation for other pages contained on www.4chan.org.
Q. Pretty good. You indicated this portion is
where the boards are. Within that portion, where is the
Random /b/ board?
It's under the misc.(18+) right there.

Q. And so the portion that you have underlined
says "Random"?
I believe so. It's kind of small. It's where
it should be.
Q. Based on your familiarity with the site, is
that where it would be?
Yes.
Q. Thank you. Turning to the next slide. Can
you describe what that page is and what its purpose is?
That is what the boards look like. The top
area is what you see, you know, in your browser when you
load the page. This is the submission box to create a
new thread. That's where you would input the fields and
select a file. Below that is, this is where the, this
is what a post looks like, or a thread, rather. This is
a thread with two replies. In the footer area here
there are links to the other boards and a page switcher
and a box where you can delete your posts.
Q. Okay. And then the next slide is a portion of
the previous slide, is that correct?
Yes, correct.
Q. Is this where a poster on the 4chan site might
submit their posts?
Yes.

Q. Can you explain how this submission box works
and how anyone may post an image and other material to
the 4chan site?
The first field that you can enter is the name
field. A name is not required to post. The only field
that is actually required here to post is the file
field. You have to select an image to upload.
Otherwise, you can just populate the fields you choose
to. You can click "Submit" and that would then go on
the site.
Q. If the user did not put in a name in the name
field, what is the default option?
If you do not enter a name into the name
field, it displays as anonymous.
Q. Are many of the posts on the 4chan site using
that default option as anonymous?
Yes.
Q. Is there anything stopping any user from using
a nickname for their real name?
No, you can enter anything you like into that
box.
Q. Whose election is it?
The user's.
Q. And since the image board requires an original
post with an image, where would that image be uploaded
in this diagram?
The file box right there (indicating).

Q. How does that work? Briefly explain, if a
user is at their laptop and they go to his file button,
what is the mechanics and how do they get that image to
the 4chan site.
You would click the "Browse" button. That
would bring up a file browser on your computer. You
would select the image file. You would hit "Ok" and the
location of that file would be populated right here.
Then you would go ahead and click the "Submit" button.
Q. Now, as the user connects to their own
computer and selects an image that is going to be
uploaded, what is the naming convention to enter this
file field? Does it adopt the name from the computer or
how does that work?
The name that would be displayed in this field
would be the original file name. When it's uploaded to
the site, it's renamed and it's renamed using a Unix
time stamp.
Q. Is that a sequence of numbers?
Yes.
Q. Turning to the next page. This is from the
slide two slides ago, a larger example. Can you explain
what is depicted here?
This is what a thread would look like on the
boards page. You have got, this line contains the name
right here, the anonymous, the date and the time as well
as the number of the post. The numbers are all
sequential. They auto increment plus one every time a
post is made. These would be replies here to this
thread. This entire thing is a thread. This thing is,
this is the first post and these are all replies.

Q. What requirement is there for the replies to
have an image?
An image is not required for replies.
Q. Only for the original post?
Correct.
Q. And in this portion would be the image?
That's the image for the original post. That
is the thread's image.
Q. Great. What is that number?
That is the Unix number assigned to every post
on the site. Again it auto increments.
Q. Would that be the thread number?
Yes.

Q. And so a particular thread can go on for how
long?
It depends based on the popularity of the
board, but generally speaking, you know, from minutes to
hours to a few days at maximum.
Q. And if it went on for hours, all of those
replies and communications would be grouped under one
umbrella, that one thread number?
Correct. If these replies were made to that
thread, then, yes.
Q. Now, you mentioned popularity. How popular is
the Random /b/ board?
It is the most popular board on the site.
Q. Now, is there a limit to the number of posts
that can be displayed under a particular thread for
someone viewing 4chan?
No.
Q. Is there a limit in terms of -- what happens
to the posts, if you have a hundred posts and then 160
posts and 161 posts. Do they remain viewable for
everyone who visits 4chan, or what happens to those
posts?
The posts are, you know, remain in the thread
until the thread is pruned.
Q. Pruned by whom?
Automatically by the board software.

Q. And then how would the board automatically
prune the thread? Does it have a capacity limit?
Yeah. Every board has a maximum number of
threads, say a hundred. Every time a new thread is
posted, something has to be removed. Eventually all of
the threads are cycled off and then pruned that way.
It's time based and on some of the boards it's
popularity based. The oldest least replied to thread
gets bumped off. Inactive threads basically get bumped
off.
Q. When the thread has been bumped off or
removed, does 4chan keep copies of these threads?
No, we do not.
Q. Is there a certain language that is commonly
used for users of 4chan?
In what sense?
Q. Certain terms, have a meaning unique to 4chan?
Yes.
Q. Like "OP," what is "OP"?
OP means original poster.
Q. Are you familiar these terms, having been the
founder and administrator of the 4chan site?
Yes.

Q. What would "lurker" mean?
Somebody who browses but does not post, does
not contribute.
Q. What do the words "caps" mean?
Screenshots.
Q. And is there any significance to "new fags"?
That is the term used to describe new users to
the site.
Q. What about "b tard"?
It's a term that users of the /b/- Random
board use for themselves.
Q. What about "troll"?
Troublemaker.
Q. "404"?
404 is the status code for not found. It
means essentially gone or not found.
Q. Not found on where, the 4chan site?
404 is the http status code for not found, a
page not found by the Web server.
Q. In what about "peeps"?
People.

Q. "Rickroll"?
Rickroll is a mean or Internet kind of trend
that started on 4chan where users -- it basically a bait
and switch. Users link you to a video of Rick Astley
performing Never Gonna Give You Up.
Q. What about "white night"? Does that have a
unique meaning on 4chan?
On 4chan I am not sure. White night in
general, I guess, would mean a do gooder.
Q. Have you seen that word used on the 4chan
boards?
Yes.
Q. Now, you said that 4chan does not keep the
contents of these posts. Does 4chan maintain business
records of web logs, also audit logs and sometimes
banned entries as well, if a particular user has been
banned?
Yes.

Q. Before you is a copy of Government Exhibits
129, 130, 131 --
I don't have anything under 131.
MR. KROTOSKI: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. KROTOSKI:
Q. -- 132 and 133. Do you recognize each of
those exhibits?
THE WITNESS: I do.
(Exhibit Nos. G-129, 130, 131,
132, 133 were marked for
identification.)
BY MR. KROTOSKI:
Q. Government Exhibit 129, what is that, please?
An e-mail I sent to Special Agent Scott Wenger
and I think it is the CD that he burned of the records I
sent him.
Q. And the e-mail, does it include the
attachments for 130, 131, 132 and 133?
Yes.
Q. That is FBI Agent Scott Wenger?
Yes, sir.
Q. You were responding to a law enforcement
request for records concerning this case?
Yes.

Q. And with regard to Government Exhibit 130,
what is that, please?
These are the deletion records by moderators
for the request that was made.
Q. And then what about 131 and 133, what are
those, please?
131 are the Web server logs and what was
requested in the search warrant. And 132 --
Q. Or 133.
I am sorry. 133 are also the Web server logs
that were requested.
Q. And finally 132, please.
132 are records from the banned log.
Q. And those records, are they created at or near
the time of the event that is being recorded?
Yes.
Q. And is it the regular practice of 4chan to
make those records?
Yes.
Q. And is it the regular practice of 4chan to
keep and also maintain those records?
Certain records, the bans and the deletions,
yes. The access logs are pruned regularly.
Q. And when you say pruned, are you saying that
they are retained for a limited period?
Yes.
Q. And so after that passage of time they may no
longer be available?
Yes.

Q. In this instance in response to a law
enforcement request were they available?
The records that are provided here, yes.
MR. KROTOSKI: The government moves into
evidence Government Exhibits 129, 130, 131, 132, 133.
THE COURT: They'll be received.
(Exhibit Nos. G-129, 130, 131,
132, 133 were received in
evidence.)
BY MR. KROTOSKI:
Q. I would like to show you what has been marked
as Government Exhibit 126 in the book first, please.
(Exhibit No. G-126 was marked for
identification.)
Q. Do you recognize that exhibit?
Yes. It's a summary.
Q. Is that a summary based on Government Exhibits
130, 131, 133?
Yes.
Q. And does it fairly and accurately show the
4chan records concerning September 16th, 17th, for
Internet protocol 66.253.190.21?
Yes.
MR. KROTOSKI: The government moves into
evidence Government Exhibit 126.
THE COURT: It will be received.
(Exhibit No. G-126 was received
in evidence.)
MR. KROTOSKI: Your Honor, it's a little
hard to read on the PowerPoint version. I would like to
switch to view, please.
THE COURT: You may.
BY MR. KROTOSKI:

Q. All right. Now, these records, does it show
that this user IP address 66.253.190.21 when did this
user first connect to the 4chan site on September 16,
2008?
Well, these records don't show when they
connected, but they do show when posts were made.
Q. Thank you. When did this user first make a
post on that date, according to these records, on the
4chan site?
1:00:53 on September 16th.
Q. If you can explain the first entry. What
activity is recorded in the 4chan records there?
The first column is the time. The second
column is the request that is made. When it says "POST"
that is the, you know, the user submitted something and
that is the file that they submitted it through. In
this case it's the /b/- Random board.
The "Referrer" shows the page they were
submitting from. In this case when it says
"imgboard.html" it means they were posting a new thread.
When it has a series of numbers before the .html, it's
because they were replying to a thread.
The last column is a user agent string which
identifies the user's Web browser and operating system
version.
Q. The last column, the user agent string, does
that show which browser operating system and other
information that this particular user at that date and
time had on their computer?
Yes.
Q. Now, you mentioned that this user was
initiating a post. On the next line do you see this
thread number you referenced earlier?
Yes.
Q. What is the thread number for this initiated
post?
85525276.
Q. Now, do these records on this page and
continuing to the next page show that this user was on
the site through 2:01:03 on September 16th, 2008?
I am sorry, can you repeat the question.
Q. Absolutely. Do the 4chan records show that
this particular user at that IP address was on the 4chan
site starting with this post at 1:00:53 and then
continuing through to about 2:01:03 on the second page?
Yes. There is an entry below that.
Q. Yes, there is another entry as well. During
that continuous period of time this user was making
posts and engaging in activity with 4chan?
Yes.

Q. Turning back, please, to the first page. You
mentioned 1:04. Does this user, as reflected in these
records, continue on with this particular thread?
Yes.
Q. If you can briefly explain what is the
activity that is going on with this user. Just walk us
down through some of these entries, please.
The entries -- the user is responding to the
thread 85525276 from, you know, 1:04 to all of the way
down the page.
Q. Now, going down the page to 1:21:47 and
1:21:51, what do the 4chan records show was going on at
that time?
I'm sorry. Can you repeat that again.
Q. Certainly. Directing your attention to
1:21:47 and 1:21:51, what do the 4chan records show this
user was doing on the 4chan site at this time?
A new post was made.
Q. Do the records show whether an image was being
submitted with this new post?
Well, the line after the post, the request
shows that the user's browser downloaded that thumbnail,
the 122154 number right there ending in .jpg. That 12
number is the timestamp, the Unix timestamp where the
files are renamed to that number. Accordingly, it's
with the 1:21:43 which correlates with the post, the
entry proceeding it with the arrow pointing to it.
Q. So an image is referenced in this post. It
has an original name and 4chan renames that image, is
that correct?
Yes.

Q. And what image name did 4chan assign to that
image reflected in this record?
1221542503664s.jpg.
Q. What is the significance to .jpg?
.jpg is the file format for the image file.
Q. Turning to the second page at 1:30 and 1:31,
is there another image that is being posted at that
time?
Yes.
Q. Is the file name that 4chan assigned to that
12215543021404s.jpg?
Yes.
Q. Similarly, at 1:34:20 and 1:34:11 do the 4chan
records show that an image was posted and it was
assigned the name 1221543251305s?
Yes. One thing, the "s" that trails the
number, but prior to the file name, see the thumb, the
proceeding thumb. That's the thumb file name. The file
itself would be renamed that number, but without the
"s." Only the thumbnails get the "s" in the file path.
The thumbnails, the images are served out of a different
directory from the thumbnails. The number would be the
same. It wouldn't have the "s."
Q. Thank you. That number, again, is assigned by
the 4chan site?
Yes.

Q. And then the same thing, another image at 1:48
and 1:47 and 1:53 and at 1:54 and 1:53 further images
were being uploaded and assigned those 4chan names, as
reflected in the records?
Yes.
Q. Turn to the last page, please. What do the
4chan records show that this user at this IP address was
engaged in on September 17th, 2008, at approximately
12:57 Eastern time?
The user posted a new thread and then
responded twice to a thread.
Q. Now, in this exhibit in the Referrer area,
what is the significance of the number 85782652?
That's the thread number.
Q. And how come there is one at 12:58 and another
one at 13:00 or one o'clock?
There were two separate posts made.
Q. All right. Showing you what has previously
been admitted as Government Exhibit 1, were you able to
make a comparison of this exhibit with those entries
that you just referenced?
Yes.
Q. So for the first time and thread number in
Government Exhibit 1 starting with "hello, /b/, as many
of you might already know" and continuing, is that
reflected on the 12:57:23 entry and the next one on the
summary chart?
Yes.

Q. Now, there is a slight couple of seconds
variance in time. Can you explain that?
Yeah. The server that has this image board,
the .php file, that is the application, that server has
a time that is different from the database server. So
there is -- these logs came from the Apache Web server
vis-à-vis the logs from the web server. That was using
the time of the application server. What you see
printed on I believe it's Exhibit 1, that timestamp is
set by the database server. So there is a slight
variance of a few seconds because the server times were
a few seconds out of sync.
Q. Notwithstanding that discrepancy just by a
couple of seconds they are the same thread numbers?
Correct.
Q. Showing you the bottom portion of Government
Exhibit 1, were you able to make a comparison of this
submission on the 4chan post with the last entry on the
summary exhibit?
I am sorry. Can you show me exhibit 1 again?
Q. Sure. It's in the book there as well, if you
prefer to see it in that format.
You are referring the post made at -- that
one, yeah, the second line on exhibit 126, the last
page.
Q. So the summary chart on September 17th, 2008,
at 12:58 and 13:00 Eastern time, what does the 4chan
record show that IP user, 66.253.190.21, was doing?
He responded to the thread you are showing
right now twice.

Q. And at 12:58:06 and 12:57, does it show who
initiated that thread?
I am sorry, I don't understand the question.
Q. Certainly. Do the records show who initiated
that thread starting at about 12:57?
Yes, the IP printed at the top of the page.
MR. KROTOSKI: Thank you. No further
questions.
THE COURT: Cross-examination, Mr. Davies?
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. DAVIES:
Q. Mr. Poole, you founded this 4chan site back in
2003?
Yes.
Q. So you have been doing it for about not quite
seven years?
Yes.
Q. How old are you?
I am 22.
Q. We have seen some of the information that the
site collects. Since people post anonymously there is
really, you don't really have any data on the ages of
the users of 4chan, do you?
No.
Q. I am going to ask you a couple of questions
about Government Exhibit 125 that you were shown. At
the beginning when you sign on to 4chan it gives you a
choice of a bunch of different kinds of boards to go to,
is that right?
Yes.
Q. Those are boards that reflect different types
of interests?
Yes.
Q. People have like just, for example, the first
one is "Japanese culture."
Yes.
Q. And the second one is "Anime." What is that?
Anime is a Japanese animation, cartoons.
Q. Is that what some of the examples in this
exhibit represent?
Yes, this was taken from the Anime board.
Q. It is called Animu & Mango?
That is a misspelling, actually. It's Anime &
Mango. That's an intentional misspelling on the board
there.

Q. And you went over this, but when you sign in
to post something it has the name and on /b/ most people
just leave that blank, right?
Correct.
Q. So it just pops up as anonymous?
Correct.
Q. Right. Isn't that one of the main I guess
characteristics of that /b/ Board is that most people
post as anonymous?
Yes.
Q. I want to ask you just a little bit of a
follow-up on that term that you were asked about,
"lurker."
Yes.
Q. Now, a lurker is somebody who just kind of
just looks at the site and doesn't actively participate?
Yes.
Q. Is that right? So there are a bunch of people
I guess you can tell who view entries on 4chan, but are
not making posts?
Yes.
Q. So and that is what a lurker is, somebody who
just checks out what is going on, but isn't one of the
people real active in putting things up on the board?
Yes.
Q. And the term "rickroll" you said it tries to
make people go to a site where they think it is going to
be one thing, but it is a video of Rick Astley, is that
right?
Yes.
Q. He was some kind of singer?
Yes.
Q. It's a joke?
Yes.

Q. Now, the documents that you have provided in
response to law enforcement requests, I think I believe
the date, one of the dates of the response was February
13th, 2009. That is exhibit 129.
Yes.
Q. And at that time you were able to provide a
good deal of information with regard to what happened on
your site September 16th, 17th, 2008, right?
Yes.
Q. As reflected in these, for example, these IP
addresses and Vtunnel proxy addresses, Exhibit 131?
I didn't provide that IP address. That was
given to me in the search warrant. The records were,
you know, pulled based on that IP address.
Q. Once you were given the IP address, you were
able to do a search of your files and provide the
government with the information that is in this exhibit?
Yes.
Q. And so when the postings that were obviously
to go through this -- to summarize, the postings that
were made on 4chan, you were able to provide IP
addresses on activity from that certain IP address,
right?
Yes. I mean, these records are the web server
logs. They are not all postings, but they are just
activity from the IP address that was provided.

Q. Okay. And then in the government 26, if you
were given someone else's IP address and asked to figure
out what postings they made on 4chan either in this
thread or another at the same time, you could have gone
through that same exercise, right?
Yes, correct.
Q. One of the reasons then that I guess that
4chan collects IP addresses and the user activity is
because you do ban people from the site for violating
your terms, right?
Yes.
Q. And that way you can tell from the IP
addresses and their activity who it is that you need to
ban?
Yes.
Q. And you ban them by IP address?
Yes.

MR. DAVIES: No further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Anything further,
Mr. Krotoski?
MR. KROTOSKI: No further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: May this witness be excused?
MR. KROTOSKI: Yes.
(End of witness)

I CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING IS AN ACCURATE
TRANSCRIPT OF THE RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS IN THE
ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER, THIS THE 6th DAY OF August, 2010.
S/ J . Owen
JOLENE OWEN.
Registered Professional Reporter


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