MR JANSEN
Yes, because as you say, there is still a theoretical possibility that they can as a matter of pure law, be prosecuted, even though as a matter of practicality or in practice, they won't be.  That I think concludes my argument on that aspect, and it is just a question then of the wording.
	The next is the issue of the conspiracy to murder Gen Holomisa.  There I will concede that nothing that was done by Mr Ras there, can be said as an attempt for the simple reason that on Mr Ras' own version, and the entire way in which Vlakplaas worked was he would not have gone over to any sort of deed of execution of that deed, or a real deed of execution, until he had received the approval or the order to do so, and he never received that.  The issue is there was with respect, clearly a conspiracy.  The reason why I say so is, it would appear from that short portion of Burchell & Hunt that there was a fair amount of uncertainty in our common law  as to when the offence of conspiracy is committed or when a conspiracy is committed.  There seems to have been again stricter approaches and less strict approaches and the end result was that the common law conspiracy were, the law of conspiracy was really supplanted by statutory offences and in fact a various, a range of them dealing with different types of offences, but then the general ones being the (indistinct) Assemblies Act.