RAYMOND PIETER SIMS
Mr Chairman, I don't think the Ciskei Police consisted of 3 000 people, I think they were closer to 2 000, if it was 2 000, but be that as it may be.    Why I said there was - and proof of that is a lot of these applicants that gave evidence, did not go what was going on in that meeting, that proves my point that no plan of action, that meeting had no plan of action and that is why I said that they had no political venue there.  That was something that was made up according to my, myself, that was something that was made up by them.