MR HOCKEY
He deal with cash, your actual expenditure, forget about your budget now that goes with the Auditor General where money is allocated before it's actually spent or money is written off before it's spent but in your actual, your internal bookkeeping system you dealt with cash and you agree with me it's very, very difficult to manipulate under those circumstances.  For example, here in the Early Learning Centre according to Mr van Zyl, Staal Burger told him that
R30 000 was budgeted as payment to Mr Isgak Harding who placed the bomb in the Early Learning Centre but he pocketed R5 000 and he said that Mr van Zyl can pocket R5 000.  That's a manipulation?