MR JANSEN
And Mr Ras furthermore says - and I am just putting this to you because I don't think we will reach much or that at the end of the day we would want to choose one person's version above that of another, but for the sake of completion I want to put Mr Ras' version to he.  He also says that he specifically fired two shots with the Makarov while it was in the hands of one of the victims at the scene.  Can you recall anything to that effect?