CHAIRPERSON
Yes, the evidence however is that what really prompted them to do what they did initially was that they were in support and in defence of Mr Mkhize to an extent that they had to guard Mr Teaspoon Mkhize, that was their evidence.  I think this is where the problem started, when Mr Bheki Nsimande left to form his own party and started spreading rumours about Mr Teaspoon Mkhize in an attempt to depose Mr Mkhize as the leader of the ANC.  I think that's really what prompted the conflict, that's where the conflict starts, that's how I understand the evidence of Mr Mngomezulu in particular.