BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE
Joe Pillay abduction, before it became knowledge that it was a mess, and his saying that one of these days the ANC will be dealt with in London.  I subsequently learned from the individual, Peter Casselton, who personally was involved in the bombing, and Craig Williamson, that the explosives were smuggled in the diplomatic bag with the permission of the Minister of Police during those days, Louis Le Grange, because the military - the diplomatic bag goes through Military Intelligence offices.  All parcels in the bag is subjected to scrutiny except on the order of a Minister that it should not be scrutinised, and that is exactly what happened in the case of Peter Casselton's parcels.  So in that specific incident I knew of the Minister's - Minister Louis Le Grange's involvement.