MR MADASA
Thank you, Mr Chair.  My submission on this is based on the fact that in law the applicant may have, primarily have planned to arrest the persons, but the consequence of that plan clearly in law is prima facie murder, that is my submission, Mr Chair, in law that is prima facie murder and he could be charged for murder.  The question whether he can be convicted or not, does not arise before this Committee, but there's sufficient basis in law, prima facie, from that evidence, to infer that he admitted to murder, because simply on the question, amongst others, of dolus eventualis, he foresaw the possibility of these people being killed, and he planned accordingly.  That's if ...(intervention).