CHAIRPERSON
But if this is just to establish whether somebody did a particular act under orders, and that is not placed in issue at that applicant's hearing, you don't have to call the General who issued the order?  It will be accepted that he, on his evidence, unless there is opposition to the fact that he acted under orders, and it is a point in issue.
	I mean must we now listen to Operation Orpheus here which has got nothing whatsoever to do with this hearing?  I can't see, I wasn't present at that meeting where Judge Wilson sat, but I don't think that this can be used as a basis for Hugo's application, which has got nothing to do with this.
	If it had something to do with Katzen, I would go with it.