CHAIRPERSON
Yes.  No, no, no, Mr Mbandazayo, that much is very clear.  I mean if we're presented with an English form, English application form under the circumstances which the applicant was trying to explain to us here, we were speaking Zulu to some other person who was completing the form, speaking for myself, I'm afraid one has to judge the value of that form in the light of those particular circumstances.  Now, I know he was trying to explain this whole thing about the information that apparently appears in English on the English form and there was a lot of to and fro about this, and about whether there were lies and where the lies were and so on.
	And I tend to agree with you that there is certainly no clear indication that what the applicant was saying was that in here he was lying intentionally to the Commission.  It was certainly linked to what was said to the police.  In fact at one stage I made a note here, he says that, "I wrote the form as to what actually happened and what the police informed me".  And I saw there is obviously no clarity, certainly in my mind, on the issue or the point that the applicant had intended when he completed this form to lie to the Commission.