MR GERBER
No, it wasn't always (inaudible) operation from the people. I tied Samuel's feet together and hoisted him up in the tree, upside down.  I then attached the shock machine to his private parts.   I pulled a bag over his head and we started applying shocks.   We constantly spoke to him and asked him where the other people were, the other people that we were looking for.   Each one of the investigators present  took part in this procedure, shock procedure.  The two black investigators spoke to him in his own language.  Samuel, however, refused to part with any information.  At one stage I sent the black investigators to go and buy some cooldrinks Samuel was still hanging from the tree.  There was liquor in
my car and we started drinking.  
	During these type of investigations and interrogations alcohol is always used.   No right-thinking person can act  in this way without your conscience plaguing you.  During the day Oosthuizen took out a firearm and shot two shots in the direction of the deceased where he was hanging from the tree.   We spoke to him very seriously and said that it must not happen again.  It was at no stage our intention to kill Samuel.  Later that afternoon Jack Makoena and Julius Xhosa  came to me and asked if they could leave.  It was about five o'clock in the afternoon.  Jack had to attend a class and the other one had to be dropped off at his home, and I said yes, they could leave.