CHAIRPERSON
No, no, no that is not what I am asking.  They might have had several meetings before that.  I am talking about this incident of the road block, because you say this order in paragraph 44, you say you are referring to the question of the road block and the identification of ANC people and killing them.
	That is what you are saying in paragraph 4 isn't it, now I want to know from you are you saying that Oelofse or the Order, whatever you call it, that group which came to that decision, are you saying that they came to that decision in collaboration or in consultation with Gen Viljoen?