MR DORFLING
Well there was no specific time frames given in the evidence, one can't put it to a specific time frame but as Mr Justice Nugent put it at the time when the pandemonium broke loose, at that time there was no shooting emanating from the crowd.
	May I proceed to the so called second salient principle feature in the evidence of the ANC guards dealt with at page 137, the second paragraph?  It specifically deals with the question as to whether the crowd was charging forward brandishing their spears and other weapons as if they were going to attack the guards.  That was the ANC's version as put forward, is that correct Mr Kruser?