RUSSELL ALLY
Mr Msibi, what I would strongly urge you to do, is to include in your statement, to add to your statement, some of these facts that you have mentioned to us now.  You can do it through our statement-taker.  We've taken it down as well as you've been speaking, but also about your sister's husband, to include his name and to give that to us.
 I mean it is very difficult to know what to say to you in this circumstances, but just to let you know that a few weeks ago, I think it's three weeks ago now, the African National Congress, the ANC was recalled to hearing by the Truth Commission in which questions were put to the ANC, particularly about their campaigns when they decided to intensify, in their language, to intensify the struggle and when land-mines were planted in different parts of the country.  Particularly in farming areas and also areas where they believed there were, there was a military presence.  
 The explanation which the ANC actually gave was that this was - that they considered the planting of land-mines to be legitimate, part of the struggle, in rural areas and also areas where there was a presence of the military, in farming areas, because they believed that the farmers had become part of the military establishment; that they never ever used anti-personnel mines, mines which would explode if a person tramped, stepped on them, because they didn't want to cause harm to civilians as such, but they used what they described as anti-tank mines which required a certain weight to set the mine off.  
 But they claimed, they went further and said that in a process of this campaign, what they discovered was that many people were caught in the cross-fire; that often farmers would be transporting labourers on their bakkies and that weight would cause the mine to go off; that many innocent people who were also getting caught, and that the then President, the late Oliver Thambo actually called in the MK commanders and said to them to discontinue this campaign of planting land-mines and they stopped doing that as a result of the consequences, what they saw actually happening.  
 They also made a general apology for deaths caused as result of the campaign that they have been waging.  Now I don't know if this is, fits into what they were doing, but I'm just responding to some of the things you've said.  The police saying that the mines were of Russian origin and the fact that the mine was planted near to what appears to have been a military base, a military camp.  
 But we do have their full, we do have a submission in which they indicate places where they were active and they also list some of the events which they say they were responsible for.  
 But that's what I can offer you as a preliminary explanation now.  Hopefully we will be able to follow up on some of this, but I don't really have anything more to ask you;  just to pass my condolences and I will hand you back to the Chairperson.