FERDINAND BARNARD
That is correct Mr Chairperson.  What happened was that the Goldstone Commission in that same time, while I was involved in the Webster formal post mortem inquest, the Goldstone Commission exposed something in the media.  They raided the DCC Arak Building, the Headquarters and they got hold, and they exposed myself and my unit.  I wrote a document on request, I made or presented them with a planning strategy, how we can disrupt MK, what we could do to disrupt them, because they were so close to the criminal world, I made such a presentation or submission and in broader terms it dealt with, I told them where they were involved with crime and where they were not involved in criminal activities, we had to frame them by infiltrating criminals and place that person in a compromising position and then arrest them.
	That is what it was in broader terms, it was a very big document.  I mentioned certain agents that I proposed to use, night-club owners, bouncers, prostitutes, criminals, all of them had to be used for this project, and I also arranged for access, access in terms of the voters' roll, the South African Bureau's computers, the Traffic Department, Telkom, Receiver of Revenue, all the records, I had access to all of these departments, and as part of this document, I included all of this.
	I also recruited somebody by means of putting pressure on him.  He had to do with the computer systems in Shell House, people of DCC were used to deal with that, because I had no knowledge of computers.  But the person that I recruited by placing pressure on him, he gave them access to these computers. 	This document was found by Judge Goldstone, I cannot believe that DCC kept that document, because you can see it is CCB type of actions.  When this document was exposed in the media, Judge Goldstone informed the media, it was on all the main news bulletins, and they made a big halloo-balloo that I was a convicted criminal and that I was applied, and that the State section was turned into a monster, I supported the system.  I consulted with the officers and decided to take the punch, I will go in and testify in front of the Goldstone Commission because I was subpoenaed to appear before them, that I was the author of the document.
	That was the presentation that I made, and how I explained it, but that was never implemented.   The reason why it was not implemented, I told them, was because my Commanders came to me and said it is a CCB type of operation, we do not work like that in DCC.  We are a support structure of the police and only an Intelligence collection service.
	I misled the Goldstone Commission by telling them that this whole unit was not applied in such a way, which was not the truth.  The Goldstone Commission, after they exposed it in the media, a day or two later, with Attorney Piet du Plessis, sitting next to me, we called for a press conference, stating the Defence Force's side.  Where on national and international TV, I denied that it was implemented and I attacked Judge Goldstone's integrity by saying I was disappointed in the fact that he only presented the one side, that although I did make the presentation, it was never accepted or implemented.
	This was however not the truth.   It was approved and it was done in that way.