CHAIRPERSON
No, I am aware of that, I wasn't involved personally in it, but I have read the submission by Gen Van der Merwe as well as various other submissions that have been made to the TRC and I am sure that what was said there is pretty much in line, but we do have the transcripts available and we can have recourse to them.  But we are fully aware of Gen Van der Merwe's submissions regarding what the state of affairs was over various periods of time.