CHAIRPERSON
So what about this aspect, if you could just address us, if you take a look at it just objectively, you've got a group of eight people who embark on an expedition to hold up a van conveying monies, right?  Seven of those members are of no political affiliation, one happens to be a ...(inaudible), one could look at that as a gang of eight with no real political motivation because seven of them haven't got any political affiliation.  Now if one of them like the applicant happens to be a PAC, after the event comes the Amnesty Act, the Act 34 of 1995.  Very convenient to say well I was doing this for the party.  If one member happened to be AWB or an MK cadre, he could also come and say well I was doing it for the organisation because objectively, when one looks at it, it's just a gang of eight people.  When the applicant's tried, well from the information we've got, it was never brought up that any political motive at all, it comes for the first time in this application and then that raises the question which I asked him, you know why if it's for the APLA or PAC, why go to somebody in a different organisation at the time, you know, when you can get all the money instead of one eighth?