MR WESSELS
Well, we don't really have - it doesn't go that far in this particular case.  I can see there was a reluctance by Mr Verster, to make any concessions in that regard, it doesn't go beyond a reluctance to make concessions.  But then you must take into account the personalities that we're dealing with.  It is not necessarily a version, or the fact that he was reluctant to make concessions doesn't retract from the fact that he can be credible insofar as his evidence before you is concerned about the events that are being dealt with now. You must take into account the personality of the person.  He is reluctant, because of his personality, because of his beliefs, to make concessions about the past.
	He, rightly or wrongly, believes that he was victimised at the time, he's probably correct in that assumption, and that carried through for many years.  He wasn't in a position, at that time, to make any concessions and he believes that the way he acted was the only way he could defence himself at that particular time.  He doesn't, at this stage, want to make the concession that that was an inappropriate way of dealing with the matter.  So you've got to see it in that light and not in a light of a man being untrustworthy, in the sense that he ...(sound cut off)