CHAIRPERSON
At the same time I don't think that a great deal is achieved by splitting the fact as to whether a man sees or whether he hears. The picture you get and the picture we get is that there was a commotion, there were people with arms. And he heard gun fire from downstairs. Downstairs would probably mean the guards of the ANC. He heard a lot of gun fire. He says he saw people firing those that had pistols. He says he heard them firing. And whether there is a contradiction, material contradiction on whether he saw them actually or whether he heard them firing. That might be a contradiction but as far as I am concerned at present as things stand I do not think that, that is such a material contradiction.