UNKNOWN
Yes, Sir, that is so.  They link this to the stick hand-grenade and the shells of the AK-47 that were found in the premises.  But with respect, I still repeat, these findings were never at all linked to the deceased.  We have on record as to how many Black members were working in Fidelity Guards.  It was said in evidence by themselves, the applicants, that they were PAC members, ANC members and Apla members.  No trouble was ever taken to establish any link whatsoever between these findings and the deceased.
	Further a linkage was attempted, I must say, by my learned friend, that the deceased was found in suspicious conditions.  Reference is here made to the fact, to the evidence when Mr Gerber met the deceased when the deceased was coming in the downstairs.  The deceased gave an explanation that I was on the toilet. In fact, this was explained and it was never attacked at all by my learned friend.  It was explained by Jack Mkoana, who said I must explain the procedure of the guards when they go off duty.  Thirty minutes before they report off, they go to the showers, they change into civilian clothes, and the deceased had done exactly that.
	Now the question of him being found in suspicious conditions should really not mislead the Committee in arriving at a just decision.
	Mr Chairman and honourable members of the Committee, I am not going to belabour this Committee on the question as to whether full disclosure has been made by any of the applicants or not. But I will abide by the decision of the Committee.  
	Suffice it for me to say that I want to move directly to the more crucial, the most crucial criteria in this application.  The question of the political objective.
	Section 20(2) of the Act, 20(2) deals with categories of people applying for amnesty, designating people of this nature.  
	Mr Chairman and members of the Committee, just a glance look at Section 20(2)(a), (b), (c), (d), (e) and (f).  None of the two applicants qualifies there at all.  None of them qualify there.  It is never in evidence, it was never put on evidence, even in the court record that any of them did what he did or he did -
"... in an act associated with a political objective and which was advised, planned, directed, commanded or committed within or outside the Republic, during that period cut-off date, by any member or supporter of a publicly know political organisation."
We don't have such evidence.
"(b) By an employee of the State or any former State or any member of the security forces."
We don't have evidence before us. The only linkage attempted to be made is that "hulle het opgetree ten behoewe van ..."  They acted on behalf of the South African Police, and they tried to link that to the fact that they have been - the Fidelity Guards was linked with the security forces.
	Mr Chairman, members of the Committee, I must say right away now that this very morning, on Good Morning South Africa, the director or the national financial director of Fidelity Guards, Mr Fourie was quoted to have said that the Fidelity Guards had no bearings, no dealings whatsoever with the security forces of the Republic.  This was said this morning on Good Morning South Africa.