CHAIRPERSON
I'm having difficulty with what you're trying to get at, Mr Stofile.  You're questioning him, you're saying "why didn't you join Vlakplaas or the askaris?"  Now he says "I didn't join them because I didn't want to kill people".  Now you say "okay, I've got a problem with that, you tortured people but you've got a problem with killing people?"  Now what are you trying to say, are you trying to get at that - yes what must he say "I didn't want to go and live in Pretoria or East London" or what are you going to achieve by it.  That's what I'm trying to understand by your questioning.