CHAIRPERSON
Well, I am helping you now to come to the point, I don't want to listen to that history, I have heard it before, you have said it many times.  I want to know from you Mr Kloppers, are you saying as a fact that the order to go and put up a road block on the 12th of December 1993 to identify and kill ANC people, was an order which came after consultation or in collaboration with Gen Viljoen?