MR NTSEBEZA
Yes, I would like to be very sure that it is pretty obvious and I would like to carry you along with me as an observation and as a person who was observing those times.  Now if there was evidence  and I must say that we are looking at whether in fact this evidence can be authenticated, if there was evidence that in those times already submissions were made to the State Security Council from these structures in the provinces, that as part of the policy of dealing with the unrest in the Western Cape for instance, "witdoeke" were referred to as the fathers, had to be assisted by the State, now I want to relate this to the intervention which you have referred to.
 It is a very small intervention, you were asked why did you arrest these people, why are you keeping Ngxobongwana there?  Now would it surprise you ...