MR VISSER
Mr Chairman, please stop me if I'm not being of assistance.  It is paragraph - I've got a reference here in Exhibit P30 which mentions the name of Mr Miningwa and it's at page 158 of Bundle A.  I've got a reference here first to the clinic of Winnie Mandela and that's the only reference in regard to anything about Mrs Winnie Mandela, referring to Mr Miningwa, so it's a reference to the clinic.