TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  The Zimbabwean Government Security, ja, sure, because that's where you had to apply - I mean that's where you had to go if you wanted like an application for residence status, you get the point.  And I also indicated to the Government of Zimbabwe together - you know, and also at the UNHCR office, that I only wanted an identification, you know, an independent identification as a refugee.  I didn't want to leave the organisation, I wanted to still remain a member of the ANC.  Unfortunately when I was there the movement sent a security guy, if you get the point, to come and fetch me.  So I resisted.  I am not going to mention them now by names, but if I am called upon to do that then I can always mention them.  Anyway.  And then the guys came.  Instead I was surprised.  They wanted to remove me by force from there.  Then I resisted, and unfortunately that caused a lot of, you know, commotion outside the, you know, the offices outside the - you know, outside the Zimbabwean or whatever security offices in Harare.  As a result of that I mean many people came.  It attracted whatever - the commotion that took place attracted a lot of people, and then the police - I mean the Security Police of the Zimbabwe Government, you know, put me into the car and they drove me to the police station.  They decided to whatever - to whatever - to lock me up.  I stayed in the cells I think for about two days, after which then I indicated to them that I am not going back to the ANC, now I am resigning.  I told them straight that, "Now I am resigning," I don't want to have anything with the organisation at that point in time.  Then I was taken to the refugee camp in Zimbabwe, where I stayed, and then after some time I was called upon to - I mean to a hearing for an application for refugee status.  So in that hearing one of the things that I indicated, because I was asked about my safety in Zimbabwe, they wanted to know - in fact they indicated to me that how would they be able to make sure that I was safe in Zimbabwe because they had no control over the security of the movement.  Then I indicated to them that I doubt that the Zimbabwean Government can say that it had no control over the security of the movement because it was a government.  And I also indicated that I suspected that there were some people even in the Security Police of the Zimbabwean Government who were, you know, conniving with our security guys because of the braveness that they had, you know, when they went to fetch me from their offices.  So I think some of the things which I said there made certain people feel unhappy, and as a result of that they decided to send me to Lusaka, without the knowledge of the UN unfortunately.  So when I got to Lusaka ... (intervention)