ADV DE JAGER
Mr de Koker, I think - I don't want to curb in your - you're appearing for a victim so I don't want to curb your cross-examination but I think it's clear that a hand grenade was thrown at the building, we know that it's a dangerous weapon that's being used.  As it happened one was person was killed in the outside even so I think as far as that is concerned - and he's applying for amnesty for the murder of that one, so as far as the case before the Committee is concerned, he's applying for amnesty - am I correct, for the murder of a person caused by this explosion.
	It may have been that there could have been 20 people killed - even the people outside, there could have been more of them killed and injured.  And he's applying also for amnesty for the attack on Ms Nel, so as far as that is concerned I don't think we would advance the application or discredit the application one way or the other whether one person was killed or whether 20 could have been killed.  The fact is there was a murder and for that amnesty is being asked, so I think you could accept that the Committee would regard it as a murder for which amnesty has been asked for and an assault or injury to people for which amnesty is being asked for.