MR DU PLESSIS
No Mr Chairman, these offences include offences which are not gross violations of human rights.  All I'm trying to say is you will remember that our applications included all other criminal offences which could be competent verdicts under a specific crime and where he mention murder in the application obviously it could have mentioned assault etc., etc., and I'm just making clear that he just mentioned the one but it's not necessarily the only one that ...[intervention]