UNKNOWN
Mr Chairman, may I perhaps just say something, I elicited that in cross-examination and I cross-examined Mr Mamasela about that and about the fact that Mr Mamasela indicated that de Kock gave the order for them to come to Port Elizabeth and it is important in respect of the credibility argument relating to Mr Mamasela, so I wish to state that for that purpose it is important that it goes onto the record that that is the factual situation pertaining to de Kock's application so that one can use it in argument eventually.