MR VAN DEN BERG
Can I interrupt you there Mr Dumakude?  Can you refer and I refer you to a document entitled "The further submissions and responses by the African National Congress to questions raised by the Commission for Truth and Reconciliation" and to page 51 of that document.  Mr Chairman, we've made copies and those are attached to the statement.  This deals with the ANC structures 1985 to 1990.