MR KOOPEDI ARGUMENT
I do, Chairperson.
	Firstly, I wish to point out that I believe that the subpoenaing of the three people mentioned by Mr Wagener, will be a complete waste of time and taxpayers' money.  It will also ensure the prolonging of this hearing unnecessarily, Chairperson.
	It's my submission that the three people will not take the evidence in this matter any further.  My submission is that they will in no way be able to assist this Honourable Committee to come to a particular conclusion or decision as to whether or not to grant amnesty to the three applicants.
	It is my personal view, Chairperson, I must stress, my personal view is that simply because Pik Botha, Gen Coetzee were subpoenaed or are to be subpoenaed in another matter, it therefore means that in this matter also then Ronnie Kasrils, Joe Modise and Lambert Moloi must be subpoenaed.  I do agree that the matter in which, the Lesotho Raid, where the other people are being subpoenaed, cannot be seen as a precedent, but perhaps it's something worth looking at.  
	I would therefore then also take you through to another hearing which the subject thereof was landmines.  I believe this hearing was in Mpumalanga.  A number of people, Gen Nyanda notably appeared and asked for amnesty for those landmines.  At no stage were any of the three people mentioned or at no stage was there even a thought of subpoenaing them.  I know I was told that in that matter there was no opposition and perhaps that's why they were not subpoenaed, but the facts are clear that they would not in any way be able to take the matters any further.
	Chairperson, the applicants before you gave evidence and their evidence is that none of them, none of the three were ever given instructions, briefed or even debriefed by any of the three gentlemen.  The evidence before you is that the unit of twelve was commanded by Mancheck.  Evidence before you is further that when they got into the country, they then had other Commanders, Chilies and Agrippa.  
	It's my submission Chairperson that these would be the people, I'm referring to Chilies and Agrippa, these would be the Commanders or the senior people who should be subpoenaed if they were not part of this hearing.  These are the people who made the decision as to - that is when they were on the ground.  These are the people who pointed out where the mines are to be put.  You've heard evidence from one of the applicants that at some stage when they were in the country, they didn't even have the maps as to where to put these.  This clearly tells you that everybody relied on what the Commander said.  If the Commander said we plant it in the sky, they would have to do that and without questioning.
	My submission is therefore that, Chairperson, we do not need to call any person into this hearing.  I would at the risk of being repetitive, go back to the application of - the broad application of Mr Kasrils where he speaks about landmines.  He clearly sets out what his role was and perhaps, Chairperson, I should for record purposes read what he says in that, that is on page 7 of your bundle of documents.  I'm reading from the third line of that paragraph.