MR KNOETZE
If we can then continue to 823, paragraph 3, the second part.  It refers to the TVB States, the national States.  Now these States are being identified as targets and as springboards and thoroughfares used, and that is to increase the terror actions and unrest in the RSA, so it also refers to Transkei and Ciskei.  Can you just confirm that that was the situation at the time?