FERDINAND BARNARD
Yes, I can.   During October 1988, when I was activated, one of the first things that I did after I recruited McQuillan and that excursion of him to London took place, I met a mandrax smuggler, an international smuggler.  I cannot say I recruited him, but I knew him before, when I was a Narcotics Detective and I worked on syndicates.
	I re-recruited him, although I did not put it like that to the CCB, I knew he had a lot of good contacts as high up as even Tanzania.
	I went to go and see him and the first information that he gave to me was, that I entered into the system, was verified. It was with regards to a house in Chunga, some zone in Lusaka, Zambia, being a terrorist infiltration house of the ANC and MK.  I took this information, entered it into the system via Lafras Luitingh.  Mr Luitingh returned to me after a few days.  He was very interested or very excited.  He told me that under no circumstances must I lose this person.  He immediately gave me R5,000 in cash.  He said the information was confirmed, and this was the type of information that they needed.
	Then in the media I read certain reports that there was an explosive device and it was detonated in Lusaka at such a house that was attached to the ANC.  I spoke to Mr Luitingh about this, and he denied it.  He said it was just a coincidence, but I knew it was the same thing.
	He came back with me, with money at a later stage, to again give to George.