MR MADASA
Yes.   Perhaps this brings me to the - I had assumed that this was a presupposed factor, a known factor, that criminal activities per se did not indicate absence of a political hand in them.   Now, and some of the applicants have explained this, but the regime at the time would use the very fact that structures or organisations are at loggerheads, bring in criminal activity to cause disunity, havoc, so that the work of the SDU does not go ahead, and in ANC submission, this is what President Mandela, the point that he made was that he said De Klerk was bent on not allowing this structure of SDU to be successful.
	So the way the police agents dealt with this matter was that they would infiltrate organisations, and I submit, Mr Chair, this was easy with these young boys, these were young chaps, they must have been oblivious as to the political developments at the time, excited about belonging to a structure, that was, they were therefore vulnerable if there was an attempt by the State to infiltrate them.