MR LAMEY
Mr Chairman, Mr Nortje has on that aspect, has put it on record Mr De Kock that it is not as such that he approached him to do that specifically for him and his wife, but it was rather as he put it, it came as a gesture of goodwill from Mr De Kock and at a time much longer, after this specific incident.  That brings us back to the aspect of the question of personal gain, as far as Mr Nortje is concerned, it is my submission also on the evidence before the Committee, that there is any evidence that suggests that his participation in this specific incident, arises from any expectation or promise to receive that piece of land, or any other personal gain that he would benefit from.
	As Mr Hattingh has pointed out, one must remember that Mr De Kock became first owner of this property and it was much later given to Mr Nortje as a gift, at a later stage.  Now, I would submit that there is nothing in the evidence that connects this benefit which he has received, at all, with this specific incident.  In fact, it would appear that it was something of a general nature, something which was much more inspired by reasons of friendship than anything else.  One must also bear in mind that Mr Nortje worked closely with Mr De Kock, that is almost common cause.  He came a long way with him since the days, especially also of the conflict in Namibia.
	Mr Nortje, I may just further mention that Mr Nortje's evidence is also that there was no, he was not a party and he has no direct evidence prior to the supply of the evidence to Duli, of any  mention of any financial, finances, regarding this transaction, firstly.  Secondly also he have not heard of anything to the effect that there would be any special reward or compensation for his participation in this incident.
	Mr Chairman, I do also wish to as the general broader picture, I have made just a short list of particular pages from the record of the evidence given by Gen Van der Merwe in the Cosatu House/Khotso House hearing and I wish also to refer to pages 263, 264, 266, 268 and 269 thereof.  I don't know if you want me to quote?