MR MBANDAZAYO
Mr Chairperson, I don't know whether you're asking me or want me to comment.  Mr Chairperson, looking at it, looking at it the way you put it and the way also myself I see it, definitely one would concede that definitely any other person who looked at it objectively will find it difficult to understand when you take into account the number of people who were almost seven if we accept his evidence as it is, that seven people were not affiliated to any and at the same time what was being done was done on behalf of the organisation.  One if he looks at it objectively definitely Mr Chairperson, one would have to consider that point, it becomes very difficult.
ADV. MOTATA: Because if you take it a step further, that firstly at least assistance of a member of the ANC and we know the policy of the ANC didn't cover that and if there was a request, let's accept there was a request from Mabena, he had ample opportunity to look for his fellow PAC members and say "Hey, as you know our organisation is suffering and we want to train a task team in the Transkei to stabilise the councillors there, that would achieve our objective and Mabena wants that kind of money".  Wouldn't that be looking at it objectively that the first thing he would go to the people who are of your home?