ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE
Okay.  In 1990 out of the unbanning of the democratic forces, I think in my perception as a person who was in Piet Retief at that time, I think the security forces, if you look in terms of the 80s, they were more involved with operations that were actually directed to members of the ANC.  Obviously the community was quite surprised in Piet Retief, you couldn't have a meeting.  There were a thousand procedures.
	Actually 1989 we had the so-called election of the local council and us as democratic forces, I was already there in Piet Retief, we actually opposed the elections of the council.  It was a policy that as master democratic movement we actually opposed the question of the re-election of councillors.  But, however, people stood which meant that whoever was part of those elections was actually supporting the policies of the former Government which we didn't recognise, the Nationalist Party.  Under these circumstances, I think the person who got the highest vote in those elections, because we actually had campaigned in the community to oppose those elections, I think it was Mr Msibi.  I think he got about six hundred (600) votes and the others got about fifty two (52) and some of them were just elected unopposed, because nobody actually opposed them.  So, we had a council now which was formally established which was actually representing the Nationalist Party from 1989.  Then Mayor Mr Vilikazi became the Mayor and we actually campaigned as the community to say that they must resign as councillors because we believed that the system that they were representing was not representing the people of South Africa.  
	Then the perception from the community was that these people must resign and it seemed that in 1990 when the unbanning came, the security forces had a change of strategy because now they were forced to have an ANC which was inside the country which was legal.  Now, they had to deal with an ANC which was in Piet Retief which they were not sure who is MK, who is what.  As we understand, that there was then an internal decision that was taken because it was seen that Mr Vilikazi was not actually enforcing the police of the Nationalist Party in order to ensure that his oppressors, he was given a free trip to Germany.  
	When he returned from that trip he was overthrown by Mr Msibi who then became the Mayor.  When he came back from that trip he was already removed as the Mayor of Piet Retief.  I mean it's a township because that time you had four councils.  So, it was the way of the township.  Then Msibi took over in around 1990 and that's where we actually experienced a lot of difficulties as communities. We couldn't hold meetings because we were not allowed to have meetings, to call meetings, we had to use churches because you will be told that the council must sit before you can get a hall and they are not sure when the council is going to sit.  
	Then in 1990, I think it was around March, the community obviously, because they were demanding that the councillors must resign, water was cut in the township.  And that's when things went worse in 1990, when the water was cut.  Then there was an attempt at that time to kidnap  myself and Councillor Thabede.  I wouldn't say, there were a lot of people who were injured, some were shot with rubber bullets who are still carrying those rubber bullets because of that situation, you know.  When they tried to kidnap us, unfortunately there were people around.  We then approached Baklender who is now the Director-General of Land Affairs.  He actually issued, I think that's what actually saved our lives, he issued a letter to Piet Retief to the commander in chief of the security branch which were actually mostly involved with the covert operations.  I think that's what actually tried to save our life at that time, but as I have mentioned, that I wouldn't count who was hurt and what-what.  Some students were shot in schools.  
	The situation was just chaotic, and we then received information at that time that there was a small gang calling themselves PAC.  I think there was an attempt to create a gangster which, when we discussed with our own colleagues in Ermelo, it seems as if the same thing was happening where they will come up with a small gangster and that gangster was actually trying to destabilise the community.  In one of the community meetings, I think it was 1991, there was an announcement that was made by the Mayor Mr Msibi that he needed people who are looking for jobs, and those people were actually bused to Gauteng.  In Gauteng, as we believe, because most of them came back because they were just ... (indistinct), but they told me that they were looking for work.  They were actually going there to be trained.  Then around 1990/91 ... (intervention)