CHAIRPERSON
He said many, many times, Mr van der Berg, he didn't see any media people.  I don't know why you insist on asking if he saw any media people talking to him.  He's made it quite clear that he didn't see any media people and that he didn't see any, in fact he said he didn't even see any living being there but he's not disputing that they were there.  So I mean the question of whether he saw them talking to media people I don't think is going to get anywhere.