MR HUGO
Yes.  And then just once more look at the record, page 2024.  Maybe before we go over to the next reference in the record, page 1719, you don't have to look at it, I'll just read it to you.  Mr Samuel also then says that he, being you, will also state that he was present in the back seat of the car with Ntombi.  What do you say about that?