CHAIRPERSON
And nothing whatsoever to suggest on the information set out here or anywhere else, that Loots was remotely involved.  There was no suggestion of that sort and you go on and on.  As Mr de Jager put, any moment you might step onto a landmine but let us not waste any further time on something that is totally irrelevant to your client.  You are here representing certain implicated parties and as my brother pointed out to you, we have ruled that they are entitled to be heard within reasonable limits, not to investigate the entire story.