RONNIE KASRILS
I think it's very clear that they were aligned to the then Inkatha group, that that's where loyalties were, that's where connections were and many of the court cases sentences such as Captain Mitchell of Trust Feeds, the Operation Marion of the Defence Force, the training of the Caprivi people, the TRC revelations have all, I would say, shown that in the most unqualified way and of course the experience of the people living in the townships, was that that's where danger came from.  I know when I would come into Thokoza and Catorus, Vosloorus and I came in on a number of occasions for funerals, to speak at meetings, sometimes to meet with self defence unit people and talk to them, that coming into this area was into a war zone and the danger and the fire and the bullets were coming from where the hostels were and the dividing line was as was shown to you this morning, was it Literary Street?  Sorry, Khumalo Street as we saw in the map.  So you felt physically the threat coming from that line of hostels on the other side of Khumalo Street.