MR WILLS
Yes.  Turning to the last incidents which I couldn't categorise geographically, in the main body of the evidence, there was the first incident of the murder of Bongani Ntombela in December 1991 at Imbali.  And this is the matter in respect of which applicant four, Mr Ndlovu, is seeking amnesty.  This you will recall is the matter where he was, as a KwaZulu policeman, was guarding MZ Khumalo's son's house in Izingolweni, and they were taking a walk down the street when they were insulted by a group of about 15 individuals, and then on the return to the house his colleague initially shot one of these individuals in the leg, and then the applicant finished him off by shooting him in the head, to use his words.
	Here he was cross-examined to an extent on the issue of how he recognised, by again Committee Member Judge Khampepe, on how he recognised this particular individual, and the suggestion, or the inference was, was that it was an indiscriminate killing rather than something that, or rather than him specifically retaliating to a specific individual who had in fact insulted him.  I submit in this case the political context of this is that the applicant was sent as an IFP constable to guard a house, and I think the evidence was to the extent that in particular section of Imbali there were only two IFP houses and so they had to be guarded quite, with some quite serious fire power.  I think there were four guards on each house.  And like the Clewer incident, there was this insult, and the, there was in a sense a retaliation for that remark, but that must be seen in the sense exactly like Mr Stewart argued that this was making a statement about the IFP's presence in this area and that obviously facilitated the objectives of the IFP in that area, in the sense that one couldn't treat the IFP in this manner.  It certainly wasn't a matter of any personal revenge.  Clearly it was sparked by an attack of an organisational nature, a verbal attack, attacking the organisation as opposed to the individual, and the retaliation was likewise, against, it was an attack by a member of an organisation against another member of an organisation.  The justification in that submission is that clearly these persons must have been ANC people in the light of the territorial position, that there weren't many IFP people in that particular area, in fact there were only two houses, so clearly if there was any other IFP person within that area, the applicant certainly would have recognised that person.  That's as far as I can take that, but I submit that this is clearly a case which arose as a result of the political conflict at the time, and that, amnesty, the requirements have been met as regards of this issue.
	In that issue, I just want to state that my Heads are slightly inaccurate, and I think this was brought up in the evidence, that it's not only for the murder of Bongani Ntombela that amnesty is sought, it's also for the attempted murder of the other four persons.  I would respectfully request that that annotation be made.  You will recall that there were other persons in the crowd, I think policemen, who were shot at.
	We withdraw the application in respect of 5.2. You will recall this was the, what was entitled the revenge attack, for the killing of Siphiwe Mvuyani which involves applicant five.  The basis of the withdrawal is that nothing was in fact done.
	In regard to 5.3, the failure to report murder of a man and woman in the ANC areas in Ndwedwe, that we've modified, and I submit correctly.  What occurred here is the applicants applied for amnesty in respect of the murder of these persons. You'll recall this incident.  He was doing his work as a KwaZulu policeman, as a policeman sorry, in Ndwedwe, and he was in his van and him and his occupant got shot at from some distance.  	They radioed for another van, another van to go to the house, and they then went themselves.  Basically the police entered the house, and shot first of all a man in the house, and then later on the applicant heard another shot emanating from the back of the house, when one of the police colleagues came to him and said that he had killed a woman, and it later transpired that this woman was pregnant.  Now clearly there's no common purpose on the part of the applicant in regard to this attack.  It happened without his knowledge in respect of both of those murders, but as a duty, he had a duty as a policeman to report these issues, and he didn't do so.  	Now the politics of that is quite simply that KwaZulu policemen would not investigate cases which involved ANC persons, and in that regard I submit that the political motivation for the omission is justified.
As regards the issue at 5.4, the attempted murder of unknown ANC members at a school in Ndwedwe, again you will recall what happened here is that it was believed by the applicant that the SANDF who were patrolling that area were supporting the ANC.  They then got involved in this ploy to throw apples and oranges I think inside the police casspir, and then the police got worried about this, anyway a deal was struck eventually whereby the army, should I say, started assisting them in their operations.  And what happened was there was a meeting being held in an ANC area and persons came out of that meeting, and the applicant together with members of the SANDF shot at these people.  Again the motivation here is based on the attacks on ANC persons, and that's part of the political conflict in the area.
	The last incident involves applicant seven, also when he was employed initially after his training at Koeberg, to guard a certain school in Imbali in Pietermaritzburg, and when he was there certain youths started throwing stones and he retaliated and he recollects that two were injured.  Here again it was an attack on people predominantly in an ANC area.  He was making a statement about the IFP property, at the time, you do something like this to the IFP and the IFP will make a political statement and react.  That's as far as I take the matters.
	In Section 6 of the Annexure 1, I detail the specific provisions which, in my humble submission, the applicants have contravened in relation to the possession, supply of firearms, ammunitions and explosives ...(intervention)