MR KOOPEDI
Precisely.  It is as if the Chairperson was privy to my notes here.  I will go to that point immediately that it is a fact that this matter happened a long time ago.
	It is also a fact that the first applicant had about 20 Units in the PWV area, it is also a fact that this matter happened a long time ago.  It is my submission therefore, that it is possible that there are certain mix ups in terms of remembering certain things.
	In cross-examination, my learned friend said to the first applicant that Mrs Dhlomo will come and say that the applicant, that is the first applicant, known as Pat at that time, was an informer, and she, Mrs Dhlomo intervened when some people wanted to kill him, that is the applicant.
	It was further put to the first applicant that this would be the reason why he would want Sicelo to be eliminated, because Sicelo could have found out about Dube.
	This witness was not called, there is no other evidence before you that leads us to that assumption that the first applicant could have been an informer at that time, and I would request that this should be disregarded as a possible motive.
	There is also a theory that Sicelo had money on him and could have been killed for that money.  We have heard that this was about R830, the amount changed to 
R1 200, it further changed to R1 500.  There is however no evidence that on this evening, he had this money with him.  I would also request that that suggestion or any insinuation in the fact that he may have been killed for this money, should be disregarded.