RAYNER MARIA MORINGER
Yes, I happened to know Mr John Strong.  Sorry, I should have explained this, Mr Strong was also one of the Directors in the 1980's of JALC, maybe I should explain JALC, the company name was actually the abbreviation of the first names of the four Directors, J stood for John Strong, A stood for Athis, I don't know his surname any more, it is a Greek gentleman, L stood for Laurie Painting and C at the end stood for Chris van Rensburg.  John Strong was a Director of JALC and I knew him from those days.  I went, I phoned John Strong and we agreed we meet at his place and during that meeting, I also met Mr Mbotoli again and for obvious reasons I tried to stay in touch, in contact with him, to find out what is happening.  I think the whole operation took from the moment we met again until the actual abduction to the Transkei, took approximately three to four months, I am not hundred percent sure how long it took.  Initially the arrangement with Colonel Mzwaiba was that I actually keep in the background and I am not going to get involved to the extent that it would be visible to Mr Mbotoli that I am involved as well.  However, after a certain period, and speaking to Mr Mbotoli, we realised that the planning for the next coup was imminent and we expected that another coup attempt where Mr Mbotoli would be involved, would be within, we estimated within the next two to three weeks, and for that reason it became important that Mr Mbotoli should be taken to the Transkei.  Consequently I had, I am not sure if it was face to face or a telephone discussion with Colonel Mzwaiba and said we have to do something, even under the condition that my involvement is becoming visible, and it was agreed and it was also agreed that if I should as a consequence of this, run into trouble with the South African government, then I would get political asylum in the Transkei.  This led then to the actual abduction of Mr Mbotoli, which I understand was the 12th of April 1991.