ADV FORD
Well, Mr Nieuwoudt, I want to take you to page 327 
of your application, paragraph 21, where you say Brigadier Gilbert's 
spontaneous reaction was that these people should immediately be 
transferred from the Security Branch and that he was prepared to 
immediately make the necessary arrangements with head quarters.
	This was after listened to their talk in the tea room as you 
have alleged, this was after you had been monitoring them, this was 
after you had intercepted Mr Mgoduka's post.  Brigadier Gilbert still 
thinks that an appropriate procedure is to transfer them.  The idea 
was that these people would be transferred to a centre outside of the 
Eastern Cape to prevent any further damage being done to the 
information network.  And then you go on Mr Nieuwoudt, however, 
I focused Gilbert's attention on the fact that this matter was a lot 
more complicated and sensitive since these particular members had 
been attached to the Security Branch for quite some time.   What are 
you trying to tell us there, Mr Nieuwoudt?