MR LAX
Botha and if one looks at D, annexure D, page 7 of that annexure and paragraph 34 and 35 thereof, the impression created there and that was the impression I had from his evidence and that impression was confirmed yesterday by Mr Wasserman, was that the C20 people were not involved with Shabalala and Ndaba other than to use the Afrikaans term the "toevallige gesprek" that they had with Botha's permission I might add with Shabalala and Ndaba, that is the full extent of their involvement from his evidence and from these two paragraphs?