MR MEYER
Can I just take an instruction from my attorney, thank you, Mr Chairman.  Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Yes, with regard to that aspect, I don't think it was ever denied by the applicants that the victims or some of them at least were hospitalised or required medical attention.
	And I think, Mr Chairman, they were quite open about the fact that the injuries which the victims sustained were serious and that the assaults and the torture on the victims were indeed serious.  I would submit that they weren't down playing the seriousness of the torture and the assaults that took place.
	For instance, when they would be confronted with the fact that the torture and assaults, torture on a specific victim would take place over a period of say three days, they would concede that.  And I think that that indicates that they were quite open, that it took place over a period of time and they were serious assaults.