ABOOBAKER ISMAIL
If I may refer you Mr Chairperson to the second submission, 2.1 on page 65, and I will read the sections on page 65 from the third paragraph onwards.  "In an interview with Oliver Tambo published on the 6th of July 1983 in the Guardian the issue of civilian casualties was dealt with".
and I quote -
"When we blew up the Sasol tanks where thousands of people were working the attack was carried out in such a way that no-one was injured.  Yet on the other hand our people were being captured, tortured and mercilessly interrogated.  We have fought back when attacked and there have been many clashes with the Police, and only the Police.  Lately the regime has become almost desperate. There have been assassinations of our people.
		In 1979 they tried to kill hundreds of our people at a military school in Angola".
	Referring to the Matola raid, the Maseru raid and the South African Air Force bombing of Maputo Oliver Tambo added -
"This means the conflict is escalating.  We always thought it was going to be a bitter, brutal, viscous struggle, almost as a necessary precondition for the liberation of South Africa.  We have to go through that.  The conflict is reaching new levels.  There is to be much destruction, much suffering and a lot of bloodshed which will not be confined to South Africa.
		In 1980 we signed the Geneva Protocols and said that if we captured any enemy soldiers we would treat them as prisoners of war.  The fact is we are not against civilians.  We do not include them in our definition of the enemy.  The ANC was non-violent for a whole decade in the face of violence against African civilians.  What do we mean by civilians?  It really means "white" civilians.  No-one refers to Africans as civilians and they have been victims of shootings all the time, even children.  They have not been killed in the hundreds."