MR VISSER
Then Mr Chairman, lastly, there is a reference in bundle 2 to a statement by Mr Eugene de Kock at page 113 and there are two paragraphs there relevant, the one is paragraph 3.2.4 at page 113.  Mr Botha what Mr de Kock says is that he visited Durban during this time in which the Vlakplaas members were here and on a day he held discussions with Mr Joe Coetzer with regard to a female leader whom we suspect refers to Nthombi Khubeka and he says that he informed me that 6 persons had been abducted during this operation.  Would you agree with that, that during the Nthombi Khubeka operation 6 people were abducted?