TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  May I just go a little bit behind 1974?  My first arrest took place in 1964.  It was for a few hours at the Berea Police Station.  In 1965 I joined Umkhonto we Sizwe and I led a major student demonstration in Stanger and also I ran the underground structure for the ANC in Stanger and I was also part of the sabotage unit, and during this student boycott I had painted some slogans, which at that time was considered sabotage.  I was arrested and interrogated for almost a whole day in 1965 and thereafter the special branch were regular visitors to my home.  In 1971 when Ahmed Timol was arrested and killed I was also subject to police special branch scrutiny.  That was in 1971.  In 1974, on the 28th 13B/4 September, I was arrested under the Terrorism Act, section 6, and I was taken to the Fisher Street headquarters of the special branch and there I was photographed, fingerprinted and verbally abused.  Thereafter I was kept in a prison cell in Greenwood Park Police Station.  That was on a Saturday, and on the Monday my interrogation started.  It used to usually start at about half past eight in the morning and last till about four in the afternoon.  At this time the interrogation - during this time of the interrogation there was no physical torture, just mental torture, and for two weeks I was interrogated and obviously the police were not happy with the answers that I gave to them and then they decided to torture me physically and there was a ritual to the torture the police used to do, and that was to force me on to the ground with my - both my hands and my feet and they used to tie my shoes around my neck and the interrogation used to begin and, in order to extract the information they were looking for, they used to quite often grab me by my head and bang it against the wall.  Then the other form of torture that used to take place was they used to make me sit on what they used to call an invisible chair.  An invisible chair is you pretend that you sit on a chair, but there's no chair there, and you hold your hands out and you flick your fingers.  They interrogate you and you have to answer the questions and this invisible chair position was quite close to the wall, but not - I wasn't allowed to lean against the wall and in front of me one of the special branch policemen used to hold a knife at my navel, so as to prevent me from falling easily to the ground and if they were not satisfied with the answers I