RUSSELL ALLY
Mr Tshabangu, by what you said in the way you responded to some of the questions, I'm sure you followed either in the newspapers or on television the recall of the political parties by the Truth Commission.  In particular the African National Congress and you may know that during that recall of the ANC, they were asked very directly about this question of the planting of landmines in farming communities, on farms, on roads adjacent to farms.  The then Chief Commander of Inkontowizezwe, Joe  Modisa acknowledged that the ANC did take a decision in the 1980's to intensify the struggle and that they identified Afrikaner farmers as legitimate military targets.  The justification which he gave was the fact that the then Government which the Nationalist Party was in charge of had brought the farming community and particularly the Afrikaner farmers into the military establishment by providing them with arms, with training, in particular around border areas like in this part of the country, Swaziland and because they were incorporated into the military structures, the ANC therefore considered them to be legitimate targets.  That's why they decided that they would plant these landmines in these farming areas.  He also made it clear that the decision which the ANC took was that they would not plant and anti-personnel mines.  In other words, mines which could be set off by people stepping on them but that they would plant what was referred to as anti-tank landmines which required a certain weight to detonate them.  We've seen the horrors of anti-personnel mines in our neighbouring countries in Mozabique and Angola and the damage and the harm that they're causing.  Mr Modisa was explaining that because of that, the ANC took a decision that they would not use anti-personnel mines, anti-personnel landmines.  He went on further to explain that when they actually saw the consequences of this kind of warfare, that often it was not the targets that they were aiming at who were the victims but often innocent people, civilians, because often it would be the case where it would be the farm labourers who were using the tractors, as in your case.  In some cases farmers would be driving with their bakkies or vans and there will be many of the farm labourers at the back and that weight would cause these landmines to explode, to detonate and caused untold suffering and injury.  He then went on to say, the then President of the African National Congress, the late Oliver Tambo actually called in the command of MK and said that they must discontinue with this policy of landmines because of the way in which the policy was leading to a lot of innocent people being killed or being maimed and that this was defeating the objectives of the African National Congress.  Following that, almost order as it were, from the then President, Oliver Tambo, the ANC discontinued with it's policy of planting landmines.  As Mr Manthata has said, the ANC then also made an unqualified apology to all those who may have been victims of  policies of the ANC, who may have lost their lives, who may have been maimed as a result of ANC activities whether as result of bombings or landmines or gorilla attacks.  I say that not to provide any justification for what the ANC may or may not have done because that is not the responsibility of the Commission, that's the responsibility of the ANC to justify or not it's policies.  I say that simply as providing information which came out of the recall of the political parties and the ANC in particular when this question was posed to them.  You may also know that many of the members of the ANC and also of those who were in charge of Umkontowezizwe including Joe Modisa, the now Minister of Defence, have applied for amnesty and that I would imagine that during these amnesty applications, the amnesty hearings, many of these issued will be touched upon again and more information will probably be furnished to the Commission.  With those words I want to again thank you for having come to the Commission and for having been so honest and so clear in the account of what happened to you and your experiences.  Thank you very much.