MR CLAASSEN
That is indeed true Mr Chair and I mean, and my submission is that the last question which obviously stands to be answered is, are they to be believed in what they, in their viva voce evidence before this Commission.  Mr Chair it is true that the impression might be created that because of these, on several occasions all the questions specifically directed to why were these initial applications not done correctly and why does it differ from the later applications. And as the evidence is clear before Court, I must say I myself was involved in taking some of these applications, and I cannot distantiate myself, I was never, I never testified under oath about this but the fact that we, I don't speak Zulu, I was given a version which I had written down, believing it to be the truth, that is what I have been told.  Obviously ...(intervention)