NORMAN ARENDSE
Mr Chairman, can we also help to understand what's going on here, we are also under the impression that we're only dealing with one incident and that is hence the very cursory reference to other incidents in which the applicants were involved.  It's the first time that I hear and we've also had the benefit of sitting through Amy Biel and St James that we also have to deal almost in full and that the other matters also come before the Committee.  I think just help us understand for future reference maybe.