UNKNOWN
The personal gain and other matters, the equally apply to him and Mr Minister Omar is not, want to be perceived to be expressing views on matters which are not of his - within his province.  I think that makes the position clear, Mr Chairperson.  Thank you.
	Then we deal with the question of absence of authority and we say no credible evidence has been produced to show that Verster was authorised by General Webb to instruct.  In view of our other argument, Mr Chairperson, could I ask you to put employees in inverted commas because employees within the meaning of the section means something - if you could just put it in inverted commas, I don't want it to be suggested that we concede that even that has problems because we're going to refer you, there is in fact a contradiction between the definition section and the sub-section in section 20.  But we will develop that argument that for the purposes of Section 20 on the facts of this case they are not employees, Mr Chairperson and we deal with it in paragraph A59.  Have I given you the reference Mr Chairperson?