CHAIRPERSON
Yes, the question is what happened at the scene of these incidents?  Is that so grossly unreasonable that it could never have formed part of this particular mandate as having been foreseen to an extent?  That is the question.  What else did you expect was going to happen and let me add to what my colleague has said, Adv Sandi, you know to suggest that this was just common crimes, this crowd would go there and throw stones on people's houses or when the owner is locked up in his barricaded room not to empty his own, I mean you know, robbers the way we understand it just don't operate in that way so this clearly seemed to be related to this action against the farmers.  That much seems you know to be quite clear to me at least insofar as the four incidents are concerned.  Clackers of course is a totally different story but it seems clear that and then this was part of that action against the farmers.