ADV DE JAGER
Mr van Rensburg, I think it's common cause that he's been convicted.  He is serving a sentence.  There must have been common purpose at least to kill the two deceased.  If that's the position and he's applying for amnesty for killing the two deceased whether he was convicted or not and he's telling us now that he's applying for that, it's a matter of argument whether it's a good application or not but that's a legal argument.  You could argue that he didn't apply for those offences and therefore we can't grant it.  He's only mentioning it now but that's an argument he can't give us the answer on, it's a legal argument that you'll have to address and we'll have to decide but apart from that it seems to me as though it's sort of common cause that he was present, that he's associated himself with the killings whether he in fact hit the body of a deceased person or hit him just before he'd been certified as dead I don't know but he associated himself with the killing and I think the only thing is why did he kill or why did he associate himself, was it associated with any political purpose or was it something else?