MS THABETHE
Precisely, Madam Chair.
	I would argue further, Madam Chair, that the act of killing Dudu Ngcobo was very personal, in that on the 25th of December, Thulani has given evidence to the fact that he invited his friends to guard, to help him guard against the people who had come to Amos Cele's house.  He did not speak about any comrades, or he did not suggest that maybe he had gone to report the matter to the ANC and maybe ANC members were sent to help him guard the house, he talks about the fact that he called his friends to help him to guard the house, which suggests that this was indeed a personal issue rather than a political issue.  
	With regard, Madam Chair, to - before I come to Roy Cele, Madam Chair, my prayer therefore with regard to Thulani Cele's application, is that his amnesty be refused, on the basis of what I've just argued.
	With regard to the application of Roy Cele, Madam Chair, I would like to oppose, or I would like to argue that amnesty not be granted on the following basis.
	With regard to the offence of the assault on Dudu Ngcobo, he was also asked as to the reasons why he had assaulted Dudu Ngcobo, and like the applicant he said because she had invited people into the area, who had come to disturb peace in the area.  I don't find, with due respect, anything political about that, more especially taking into consideration the reason why these people came into the area.  
	They had come into the area because their brother had died and upon discovering that his hand and his arm were not there, they came into the area to find out what had happened to the other body parts, which I think is quite normal and it should be expected from a member of a family who is concerned.
	Secondly, Madam Chair, I would argue that there was - with regard to the killing of Amos Cele, which is the second offence that Roy Cele has applied for, I would argue that the Committee accepts the victims' version of how Amos Cele was killed, as opposed to the version of Roy Cele.  By this I mean that the Committee should accept that Amos Cele was attacked in his house, taken tot he nearest bush from his house, as opposed to what the applicant had stated, that he had been chased for such a long distance and he was actually killed next to his house.