JOHAN MARTIN VAN ZYL
My recollection is that I actually received this firearm at some time prior to that and it could have been shortly or before as I said previously in my testimony, from Mr Gold and I cannot actually recall whether I gave this firearm to Mr Carr with any instruction or whether he took it.  I do not think there were any words spoken at the time.  My recollection about that is vague as well.  The reason for, why this specific firearm was used, as I said before, it was a Walther hand machine carbine with a silencer fitted to it and the reason was only to try and suppress the sound not to draw too much attention to the incident.