MR VISSER
Thank you, Mr Chairman and then perhaps a little bit out of turn now, but dealing with all the housekeeping matters, Mr Chairman, may I refer you to bundle 1 as it is now marked, page 67?  You will there observe the application for amnesty by Roelof Braam Visagie and at page 73 of that bundle he deals with the incident that you are about to commence hearing, Chairperson.  His part in this incident Chairperson, is extremely peripheral and he applies for amnesty only for such offences as were committed in regard to the disposal of the dead body of Mrs Khubeka and nothing else, which would be defeating the ends of justice and perhaps contravention of certain statutory provisions.  Mr Chairperson the problem with Mr Visagie is that he is in the United States on what we understand to be a semi-permanent basis and could not make himself available to attend these hearings at this time.  I may mention to you, Mr Chairman, this was also the position when the amnesty application in regard to Portia Ndwandwe was heard by another amnesty application, where also in that instance his contribution was very peripheral.  Mr Chairman, in view of the fact that on his own application, he did not commit any offence which can be stated to be a human rights violation, a gross human rights violation, we would apply to you, Mr Chairman, that you consider his application in terms of Section 19 sub-section (3) sub-section (b), sub-section (iii) which gives you the authority where there is not a gross violation of human rights, to dispose of such applications in chambers, in those circumstances.  Mr Chairman I may add that it has occurred in previous amnesty applications, the same avenue was followed.  I can refer you, Mr Chairman, to certain - I made a note somewhere, it was Mr John Adam in the London Bomb, which was a non-gross human rights violation and Mr Deon Greyling in the Cosatu matter and again Mr Douw Willemse in the Cosatu matter, so there is precedent for this to happen, Mr Chairman.
	We will, as far as we can, give evidence as to what his role was, but I can tell you now already, nobody really remembers that he was anywhere near the scene.