MR VAN DER BERG
But sir, with respect Mr Chairperson, he mentions it here but it was not mentioned in his affidavit.  It is also not what appears in his application for amnesty.
	Furthermore if you look at page 11, paragraph 5, that part of his statement he also did not mention in his evidence in chief.   Mr Chairperson, can I just hear from you, I don't know what time the Committee would like to adjourn for tea.  I see now it is quarter past eleven?