MR MALAN
Mr Panday, if I may just ask you to address us exactly on that point because that to me is the crucial.  The evidence before us, also I think was it page 8 that Ms Mtanga quoted, yes page 7, the typed version of page 8.  The evidence as it stands before me by the applicant really is that he had a call of the witness Ntshetha saying to him that early morning:  "There is someone who's suspicious, I think he's come to kill me", he did not say anything else and he requested his help and then they rounded up the people.  That is in line also with the application where he said:  "I went to the assistance of a member of our group which thought or believed that he was being attacked".  That's where everything started and then I questioned him and what flowed from the questioning and that we have to judge on the evidence before us, can you comment on that?