MR COETZEE
With respect, that's what I thought is that it's clear from the context that he alleges that he got an instruction.  If I then can just shortly refer to proportionality, Mr Commissioner, the problem is who was to assess at that stage whether or not an act was the right thing to do or was proposed in the right context, because at that stage this Act was not there, the people did not have necessarily a barometer to make that kind of value assessment at that stage and then again we must see where Mr Barnard ...(intervention)