MR WESSELS
With respect, Mr Chairman, may I come in here?  Mr Kahanovitz is not giving the matter the perspective that it requires and the evidence that was led during the Webster Inquest.  During the Webster Inquest the evidence was given by Mr Verster that he received information or he was told by Lafras Luitingh that Barnard had told him that he had killed Webster.  He further gave evidence that he reported that to Brig Engelbrecht from the police and Gen Badenhorst of Military Intelligence at the time of the inquiry into the CCB, that he had made inquiries about that.  He was not aware of CCB operatives being involved, he was only told about Barnard.  Barnard was not a CCB operative, he had been fired from the CCB and he was not aware, nobody mentioned Calla Botha's name at that time.  The Judge at that time for whatever reason he decided, decided not to accept the evidence of Mr Verster.  That evidence of Mr Verster has now subsequently been accepted by Judge Els in finding Barnard guilty of that, but that is precisely the evidence that Verster gave in 1992 already about what he had done about that whole matter.