MR WESSELS
Luitingh told Louw about it and then asked him what he had to do.  Mr Chairman, let me read from page 1974 from the record, that is the evidence of Louw
"Did Lafras Luitingh make mention of a discussion which he had with Barnard after Dr Webster's death?"
the answer:
"Yes."
		"Did he tell you what Ferdi Barnard told him with regards to Webster's death?"
		"Yes.  The information that I received from Lafras was that Lafras was clearly nervous.  I cannot quote the conversation in the way in which we had it, but Lafras was worried and he told me because I was aware of the fact that Joe Verster discharged Barnard, Joe Verster's opinion of Barnard was according to what I heard, hearsay, that he believed Ferdi Barnard was a criminal and that there was no position for somebody like him in the organisation.  Lafras asked me and he said that he was worried or concerned that Ferdi Barnard told him something which would put him in a bad position, because if he would he would fire him, which is Lafras.  He then asked him about it.  He was not willing to talk about it.  I realised that he had a problem and Lafras kept quiet or told me to keep quiet and I said that I will not discuss this with anyone, and then he told me that Ferdi Barnard used the English word "claim", in that he floored Webster.  These are the words that he used.  And this was an attempt to prove to Joe that he was acceptable, that he can be used by the CCB and that he must not be discharged or fired."
Can you recall that evidence?