PIETER JOHANN VERSTER
No, if Mr van Zyl's statement is correct, the budget, it could have been that this project was discussed at the beginning of the quarter and at that stage the gang member was already known and he knew that he would be involved and R30 000 was budgeted for him but in the presentation to me,
it had to say what the real amount was.  This person would receive R18 000 and because it was a covered secret structure you can go and read it, it is in the possession of the Commission, there is a procedure that was written out, a declaration has to be present, it has to be confirmed by the Regional Manager and also by me, it had to form part of the overall budget etc. etc. and the expenditure of this was consciously approved like this and there was other ...(indistinct) from the Auditor General and the point is management, good management.  They say the person is a uniformed soldier but now he wants to drive around in civilian clothes and then he will go and buy himself a civilian vehicle but he will pay it with a government cheque. 
	The State, whether they want to agree or admit it or not wanted that if you say you're in the private sector then you must have no links with the South African Defence Force and this plan was then approved so that it can then provide in this way so that you cannot go overseas or over the border and you can say that you want to buy meal and then you ask for an invoice and then it will point back and an agent will then in this say be uncovered.