MS COLLETT
I meant to clarify that.  Unlawful as far as APLA was concerned.  In other words what he basically said was there was an instruction, there was an instruction.  And that will be found at the bottom of page 17 of Exhibit J.
	Now this flies in the fact of what Mr Tjabane has just told this Committee because he says that he told Letklapa Mpahlele that this had taken place and it was unlawful because he had communicated that the armed struggle had been suspended etc., etc.  Now both parties acted, I mean testified under oath, one in the High Court and one here.  And I submit that if one has regard to the evidence of Mandla Palapala as well in the High Court, who had nothing to gain, he's neither an applicant before this Commission, neither was he an accused before Court.  He testified that after the alleged incident, the Bahai Faith Church, they went back to the Coloured township and the matter was reported to Jimmy Jones alias Xholile Tjabane who is before the Committee today.
	I would ask the Committee to find that orders were in fact given by APLA.  At worst on the evidence before the Committee, if Tjabane did not give the orders, somebody did.  And I'd hang my hat on what Tjabane said in his evidence early on when he said basically that they might not have heard of the suspension and they acted like they did.  In other words he insinuated that commands might have come from somebody other than him.
	The difficult situation is, Mr Chairman, that most of the persons that are involved, and I refer to TNT who is dead, he would have been the field commander, he would have been the person who could have come here and told us that this or this happened.  Essentially Tjabane is here as a single witness, his testimony conflicts with Mandla Palapala, his testimony with Mpahlele, his testimony conflicts with both the applicants before you Commissioners.  And consequently it is my submission that the likelihood is that taking all the circumstances into consideration, that these people did act, these applicants did act on instructions from a commander of APLA.
	They in their own way attempted to bring about some form of reconciliation between themselves and the victims, they apologised to the victims, they attempted to answer all questions as well as they could in the circumstances.  And it's my submission, Mr Chairman, that their acts were political, they were performed to obtain a political objective, the political objective was the furtherance of the policies of APLA.  Despite the fact that the armed struggle might have been suspended, I submit that it was a neutral factor at that stage because on Mpahlele's evidence given at the High Court, this had not been communicated to their base, so they were still under the guise of committing whatever they did in the name of the policy of APLA which was the armed wing of the PAC at the time.
	In the circumstances, Mr Chairman, Commissioners, I would ask that you find that the applicants before you have made full disclosure and that they qualify for amnesty in terms of the Act.  Those are my submissions.