MR VISSER
With respect, Mr Chairman, in the quest of the Committee to discover whether there was a full disclosure, the truth must play a significant role and when one has the situation, as we now know it is in this case, where there are material discrepancies in the evidence between various witnesses and in the evidence of the witness this morning here himself, the question is whether you will close your eyes to those discrepancies or whether those discrepancies should be placed before you by somebody who knows what they are and who has made a study of them which is, of course, where we come in, Mr Chairman.  We can be of assistance there to point out these discrepancies to you.
	For example, just to mention an example.  At the trial of this case, Mr Chairman, Mr Engochla, the person who is really the one who Mr Smiles wants to take the place of, who threw the hand grenade, he pointed, he made a pointing out to the police where he said he stood when he threw the hand grenade.  He made a confession during the pointing out that he, in fact, threw the hand grenade.  Issues like that, Mr Chairman.  The statement which you have just been handed by Mr Smiles which was handed to the Prosecutors, I do not know whether you had sight of it, which bears virtually no resemblance at all to what his statements to the Gross Violations of Human Rights Committee was going, had been.
	The point here, Mr Chairman, is that, certainly, my clients do have an interest that the truth be seen to be investigated and be seen to come out.  They also have an interest in not being thought of as persons who might make themselves guilty of thwarting the Law.  Mr Chairman, with respect, we believe and we submit to you that we have a right to cross-examine Mr Mbatha and we ask you for a ruling.  If you say we do not have such a right then, Mr Chairman, perhaps you should make that this can be tested.  The point is that we seem to be running into this kind of problem every time we arrive, most of the times, when we arrive at this Committee in order to show somebodies innocence.  It seems to be that when it is an applicant in an amnesty application who confesses his guilt, it seems to us that the Act and the procedures are geared towards that end, but it does not seem to us that the Act is really geared to accommodate a person who comes and want to tell you that he is innocent of allegations that are made, whereby he is either implicated or in which he has an interest.  So, with respect, Mr Chairman, that is all I have to say.  May I just ask my attorney?  
	Yes, Mr Chairman, just by way of, by way, lastly, by way of example, if one takes too strict a view of an implicated person then the question arises what about Adv Jean Nel, she is not an implicated person, she merely has an interest.  The same with the late Chris Hani's wife.  She never had an interest, she was not implicated, she only had an interest.  So ... (intervention).