MOKOTEDI MPSHE
It is alleged that it was, sorry, it was made around 1993, around 1993.  I then conveyed this information to Prof de Koker and I tried to get in touch with General van der Merwe about this particular statement.  In so doing, I got in touch with the, our Investigative Unit in Johannesburg and requested them to get in touch with Mr, with General van der Merwe via his attorney, Mr Jan Wagener.  I have a response from the Investigative Unit, in writing, that they did get in touch with General van der Merwe and he cannot, he does not have a recollection about this document which was handed to him.  He is not sure whether this happened or not, but he will, all the same, check with head office and revert.  Nobody has referred it to me up till this moment.  That is ... (intervention).