UNKNOWN
I will refer to the indications made next to the 
other names.  Mr Chairman, apart from these two people, Mr 
Mandela and the late Mr Joe Slovo, the other person - the only 
person where there - these are the only persons where there were 
descriptions of their houses.
	In the newspapers Mr Mandela's house was described.  This 
was the same information contained on this list and the same is 
applicable to Mr Joe Slovo.  On itself this was a public fact or 
public knowledge.  If you take into consideration the wider public 
which read various newspapers, they knew the descriptions of 
those houses because we found it in the newspapers.  He obtained 
that information from a newspaper.  That was also according to 
his statement.
	With respect, those descriptions regarding certain security 
measures or not cannot be ascribed to the applicants.  This was 
absolutely Mr Kemp's decision and here is no suggestion that Mr 
Kemp under the circumstances, was a co-conspirator or anyhow 
involved in committing this crime.
	As far as it concerns Mr Kemp, we've tried to get him here 
and we've already placed it on record but it was out of our 
control.  Should you deem it necessary we have to make another 
plan.