MR BERGER
Chairperson, that's like getting the Section 29 statement in through the side door, but because of what I have to say next, it's really going to be academic.  We do not want there to be any suggestion from any quarter that we are holding back any information and whilst I submit that Mr Richard has not laid a proper basis for the recall of Mr Ismail, Mr Ismail is here and prepared to answer further questions.