UNKNOWN
I appreciate that.  May I take a moment to discuss it?   My colleague is chatting to one of the - may I have a moment please?  Thank you.
	It is still my instructions to ask for the matter to stand down for fifteen minutes so that Mr Kasrils may come in and testify.  The reason that we wish to call these three witnesses is that we wish to set the history even though many parts of the history are not disputed.  I still think it is necessary for example to explain the structures and the chain of command that would be an important issue in this matter.  For that reason may I ask that the matter stand down until 10 o'clock?