MR VAN DER BERG
That is so Chairperson, the fact that the shooting did take place at the TTA.  That is a fact, I am not going to try and argue that away.
	But at the end of the day, who was responsible for the people who were shot or injured?  I think that evidence was concluded with the Tebbutt Commission, by the Tebbutt Commission, and because we do not know who was responsible for the people who were shot there, because the Defence Force was also shooting at points, so there was crossfire.
	A woman was shot in the stomach, according to this witness, yes indeed, there was a shooting going down, but the question at the end of the day is, after the shooting stopped and that is where the applicant is blatantly lying to the Court, he says that when he got to the Mercedes Benz, there was still shooting. 
	I asked him, no it stopped, hadn't it, and he said no, people were still shooting.  It is evident from the video, it is evident from the evidence of Mr Peter de Ionne, that there was no more shooting taking place.  So right there and then ...