UNKNOWN
Except even in the case of Botha, my submission would be, even after he says all of that, one would expect him to come along to explain to you, I agreed to get involved in these things for the following reasons.  I regarded it, I personally regarded it, the assassination of civilian politicians in the UDF or whatever as being a proportional response because of this, that and the other.  He is not a mere cog in some huge military machine.  He is not obliged to obey orders, he has a choice, he gets called in, he is a suspended employee.  They ask him, will you go to Cape Town to let off a bomb?  In fact, in his particular case not only does he not question what he is to do because he says he is actually very happy to have been asked to do that.  Now certain of the criteria in sub-section 23(?) clearly call on the Committee to have regard to the subjective state of mind of the individual and clearly he must apply his mind - well, one would have expected that at some or other stage in this process the individual involved must apply their mind to the question of this in the first place of agreeing to such acts in general, in the second place agreeing to commit a specific act and in both cases they are quite able to come along here and say these are my reasons, this is why I say what I did was proportional to the objective pursued.  But it appears to have been taken for granted in these proceedings that acts of this nature are acceptable and therefore it is not necessary to justify them.  Although maybe I should note the following.  Those applicants who lied in their amnesty applications where they said that police intervention wasn't possible because the informer's evidence couldn't be used in a court of law.  The reason that those falsehoods were inserted into those applications is because the applicants were alive to justify the proportionality of their conduct and then only became exposed under cross-examination that that was a subsequent fabrication.
	Then we stress at the top of page 35 the haphazard nature of the way this process worked.  We say if you were so unlucky to have ended up on the CCB's targets lists, you would suffer at best a broken window and at worst death.  The same activist with the same political profile could however have been detained by the security police for exactly the same reasons as he might be killed by the CCB and that would go to show that the CCB was their response to the political uprising, was in the very nature of what they were doing,disproportional.