CHAIRPERSON
Yes.  And I will say to you Mr Visser, I will give an example of two distinguished people in this country.  One of them has publicly acknowledged he has made an application for amnesty, the former Commissioner of the South African Police and he admitted that he murdered people.	He planned the murdering of people and therefore he feels he has committed this, he must apply for amnesty.
	On the other hand there is ... (tape ends)