MS COLERIDGE
Chairperson, initially this whole CCB matter was referred to Judge Denzil Potgieter to decide whether certain matters are going to be held in chambers and it was decided and I was informed thereof, that the Tutu matter would be resided in chambers, Chairperson, being that it was a non-gross violation of human rights.  But in relation to, just for the purposes of coherency, I don't think there's a stage where, for instance, Mr Verster will be cross-examined or questioned on this issue, so depending on the Committee whether it's relevant at this stage, because we'll have to decide on this matter anyway in chambers and Mr Verster's evidence in relation to the orders, is obviously of essence to us as well because they were part of the CCB, so I shall leave that in the Chairperson's hands as to whether we're going to deal with that issue.