CHAIRPERSON
Well if that is so and we want to consider or examine the implication of proportionality, Adv Sandi on my left had to go through a prolonged bit of questioning of the applicant to ask him and even quoted examples and whatever, as to what Mr August did exactly to couch him under a category whereby he justifiably should be targeted for treatment at least to the extent to which he was treated and unfortunately we did not get a direct answer for the simple reason that the applicant chose to say: "I wasn't there at any of those incidents but I know he's responsible."  He didn't go so far as to say why he thought so.