BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE
But you see that  - in all fairness to the applicants - we must be very careful about the argument, we mustn't press it too hard - the argument that nobody came on behalf of the organisation to say that they are proof of this because it was never disputed to the applicants.  It was never put to the applicants that "you did not have such an order".  Possibly, I'm not saying that would have been the case but possibly if the applicants - if it was put to the applicants when they were in the witness box and say that - and challenged on that, they might possibly have called some people to do that but they were not challenged on that.