TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  He can, Mr Chairman.  If one would remind him of the news bulletin the night which - when he heard his name on TV, he will specifically remember the incident where we sat on the lawn behind Sergeant Schutte's house and he said, "That's my name that's mentioned there."  And as far as the detention, I wouldn't like to say Mr Pillay is at all lying, but I would like to know possibly from the police detention records at Lothair to see exactly what times, because in my memory it was a very short stint that he