MR WAGENER
Chairman yes.  I must say I find it rather strange and surprising that the representative of the Amnesty Committee adopts this stance.  I would have expected her to be objective in this argument, or even not to enter the flow of this argument, but be that as it may, she decided to do so.  What we do know, Mr Chairman, is that this incident took place right at the outset of this operation, so her reference to the campaign later, later moving, and I assume she's referring to the incidents that took place in the Eastern Transvaal, or the now Mpumalanga, the incidents that were heard in the matter that I just referred you to in White River.