MS MTANGA
I'll be brief, Chairperson.  My position is that I do object to the application being made by my learned friend Mr Wagener on the basis that, if the reason for calling the three persons that he would like the Committee to subpoena is to establish whether the three applicants before this Committee acted within the orders of the MK and its Military Headquarters at that time, I would say the submissions made by the ANC did have the situation that we are facing here in mind and did address the situations where civilians were killed in the landmine operations.
	I would like to refer the Committee to page 327, that's paragraph 4, wherein it's stated that Oliver Tambo himself ordered that operations be carried deeper into the country, moving away from the initial position that where these operations were carried out at the areas covering two to four kilometres from the border area, when the operations were taken deeper into the country, the roads that these landmines were to be placed on were at that time acknowledged by the ANC that they were not exclusively used by the military vehicles at that time and therefore it was foreseen at that time that there would have been civilian victims in these kind of explosions.  It is my position, Chairperson and my submission that applications such as the one being made by the three applicants here today where civilians were purely victims to these operations were addressed by the submissions of the ANC and it is therefore not in dispute as to whether, when these operations were carried out, could civilians have been foreseen as victims or not.  That's not in dispute from the ANC's position, so I find it difficult to understand if these three persons are called, what different answer are we expecting from them from the ones given in their submissions?