MR POTGIETER
Right.  That's obviously a different situation, I am talking about the 7th of September 1992, and I want to ask you quite pointedly because what we have to do is we have to ascertain the facts, we must ascertain the truth, so I am asking you quite pointedly do you stand by this submission that the military acted defensively on the particular day?  Because I want to test that.  I mean if you stand by that I want to test it.