MR NOTUNUNU
... they were saying that the leadership was not doing what they were supposed to be doing, that was the holding of general elections etc, etc, so that at the end of the day, what was said by Mr Matshaya, that these people had said that they want to replace the ANC leadership, is in fact true.
	There is a person now who has been involved in such a situation, who had wanted to replace the leadership of the ANC, then he goes to, he is not satisfied with things inside the country, he goes to Dar-es-Salaam as he in fact indicated, that is Mr Dyasophu.  I am not really what Mr Dyasophu also go to Dar-es-Salaam, but the point I want to make Honourable Chair, is that they apparently had known, Dyasophu had apparently been granted some refugee status in Dar-es-Salaam, how then he happened to be in South Africa, Dyasophu, is difficult for anybody to understand.
	Matshaya had indicated that look, who had in fact, I was interested to know who had in fact organised the SABC television press conference, other than that there was in fact involvement of the regime in the whole thing, because that was the propaganda, that the TV, the SABC TV was used by the regime as a propaganda mechanism, so that the really coming out of prison that same day holding a press conference with the SABC, which is seen by millions of people over the TV, is an indication that these people were in fact the enemy of the African National Congress, which was then still waging the war of liberation of this particular country, of South Africa.
	They were then perceived, what is important here Honourable Chair and Honourable Members, I want to stress this is the test here should be subjective, it must not be objective, it must be subjective, whether these chaps were Askaris or not Askaris, it is immaterial.  What is important here is how the applicants perceived these people to be and ...