MR DU PLESSIS
Yes, Mr Chairman thank you very much. That was a very heartening comment. The applicants are so desirousof making full disclosure that they, it seems from your pointof view, want to go further than is necessary and than is requiredfrom the Commission.  The applicants are so bona fide inmaking full disclosure that they say that we don't necessarilywant to stand or fall by our applications.  We want to do everythingin our power to place the truth before the Commission.  And thatis why we say that for the sake of truth we regard it as importantfor the Commission to hear evidence of some of these witnesses. One must remember that in certain instances some of these witnesses,and I am thinking of Joe Mamasela specifically, was involved ina way where the other witnesses weren't present.  I don't wantto disclose evidence but for example he would have spoken to certainpeople to whom the applicants haven't spoken.  So all the applicantscan testify about that is what Mamasela had told them.  Now ifMamasela comes and he testifies and he tells the Commission exactlywhat did he speak to these witnesses about?  What transpired whenhe did 2A certain/...
45
certain things alone?  It could help to paint the full pictureand that is what the applicants say. 
 In respect of the question of applicants not being able to rememberyou would have noted that in some of these applications, especiallyCaptain Hechter says that he starts with the background and thefacts of certain matters and he says, I cannot remember anythingabout this matter.  The version that I place before the Commissionin my application is the version of my involvement in this mattertold to me by Paul van Vuuren. I know Paul van Vuuren so wellthat I accept the truth of what he says.  If he says I did somethingthen I believe that and then I apply for amnesty in respect ofthat deed even though I can't remember a thing.  That just goesto show the problem in dealing with matters which occurred tenyears or more ago.  And it is possible that some of these Statewitnesses might throw light upon some of the actions of the applicantswhich might be important in respect of certain of the factorsthe Commission should take into account when the Commission hasto consider amnesty.  
 I specifically want to refer to the grounds in section 23 wherethe Commission has to take into account certain factors to decideif an act was associated with a political objective.  And there,for instance, the legal and factual nature of the act should betaken into account.  The object or objective of the act.  Andthen specifically in paragraph (e) the question of the act wascommitted in the execution of an order.  All these issues we saymight, or the evidence that these witnesses might give might assistthe applicants in firstly remembering certain incidents whichthey haven't remembered up to now, and secondly, in painting afuller 
2A picture/...
46
picture than they have been able to paint to the Commission becauseof the fact that they can't remember everything.