COMMISSIONER
Mr Mthetwa, thank you very much ... (inaudible) ... today.  As Dr Magwaza has said, the story that you have told us is not a new story in our country.  There's a long, long list of people who fought against apartheid and who died in detention.  I can think of people like, in the sixties, Immam Haroon and Ahmed Timol, Joseph Mdluli, who we heard about today, Steve Biko, Neil Aggett, Dr Hafferjee in Pietermaritzburg, and there are many, many more, and the police gave different reasons for how they died, ridiculous reasons.  They jumped out of windows, they fell over chairs, they slipped on pieces of soap.  But we know that they didn't die in those ways.  Most of these people were murdered by the police.  You've said that you believe that your brother was murdered.  We'll never ever actually know for sure.  It is even possible that he committed suicide, but we must ask ourselves what drove him to commit suicide, what caused him to commit suicide, if indeed he did commit suicide?  So it's not really important whether he was murdered or whether he committed suicide, because if he committed suicide things must have been so terrible for him in detention that he was forced to take his own life.  And it is the system that killed him one way or another, and if he had not been detained without trial he would have been alive today, and we must never - we must guard against that sort of system every being introduced in this country again, where people are detained without access to their families and lawyers and doctors.