CHAIRPERSON
According to my notes, I mean paragraph 8 as well.  I mean if we - where the Niewoudt and Beeslaar, there's something, there's a query there.  According to your client he says only Venter and then again at page 3, I don't know what that paragraph is, it looks like 3 but it can't be three, the third line from the bottom where the word Niewoudt appears he queried that, so I think it's a fair question to say, perhaps not every time but there are a few instances.