GERRIE JOHAN BARNARD
I would concede to that, as I have said, I could not really see, it was at night and there would have been flames emerging from the firearm, but as I have said, Colonel De Kock and some of the other members were in front of me, and it would be speculative of me to say that there were flames coming from the firearm.  I simply believed that the shots which had been fired, were fired by the person who climbed out of the kombi.