MR MADASA
Madam, the applicants said Vips was captured by them, but he was not killed with others, because he escaped and he was killed by Manyala, so they have told the hearing the extent of their involvement in Vips's capturing, they have not hidden that, but the killing, they say it was done by Manyala, they were not there.   They have admitted killing others, they had no reason to omit Vips, they've killed others, but they don't know who killed Vips, they think Manyala and others did so at Khumalo, that is what they are saying, but they captured him.