MR MBANDAZAYO
I do get your point Mr Chairperson.  I agree with you Mr Chairperson exactly, that's the point I was trying - you put it more, I can't put it more than you have put it.  What I'm getting at Mr Chairperson is that the medical evidence is there that an object was used, which of course the applicant is saying that he used a pick handle to assault the victim ...(intervention)