MR MEYER
Yes, you're quite correct.  The applicants deny any involvement with the genital area of the victims, if I can put it like that.  Also the pulling out of their pubic hair and they did admit pulling the hair on the head and the beard of the victims.
	But, what I'm saying is that that is one point on which the applicants were very clear.  That they did not come near the genital areas of any one of the victims but, with regard to the rest of the methods that they were confronted with, they either conceded that it's possible that they for instance pulled hair from their heads or their beards or they told the Committee themselves exactly what they had done.
	And then one has to compare their evidence with regard to this aspect with the evidence of the victims.  And firstly if I can deal firstly with Dr Farisani's evidence, it's my submission, Mr Chairman, with regard to that aspect of his evidence he was a highly unsatisfactory witness.  It's my submission that one simply cannot believe that this type of torture which Dr Farisani himself referred to as the most atrocious or the worst torture that was ever committed was not referred to in his evidence before the HRV Committee.  And I would submit that that seriously has a very negative effect on the credibility of Dr Farisani with regard to this aspect.