MR NGUDLE
I have no knowledge about that, Ms [indistinct] Bunting as I usually hear about her, she tried to look for him, he tried to meet with some comrades in Gauteng.  But as far as I know she never - she never found him.  But in December as a person who was - always looking for the truth, when I was in Parliament, I met the Secretary General of the Senate, Mr Govan Mbeki  he told me how my father died.
During the time they were in Prison in Pretoria.  He told me that my father was tortured before he died, he told him in person that the boers were torturing him.  So Mr Mbeki says that day when my father told him this, and the following day he was told that my father had passed away.  Now that gives us evidence that my father was killed.