MR KNOETZE
"Not all of us had weapons, but Phil Klopper gave to Etienne Visser and Martin van der Schyff each a pipe shotgun, home-made shotguns.   The pipe shotguns were given to him by General Japie Oelofse."
	Can I then refer you to page 61, paragraph 5, it begins on page 60, have you got it in front of you?