MR MALAN
Okay, sorry, I have just been informed that Lucas has since died and that his father is here.  Thank you very much.  Mrs Mayisa, Mr Nkabinde also informed us here that the period 85, 86 was very confused with this division, that people really did not know who was where and why especially with the JMC that he referred to, the Joint Management Centre that was developing here with some of the councillors, some of the community people, individuals and others involved on that side.  It seems as if part of the community then or some of the people in the community supported the idea of removal, supported Chief Minister Skosana and others ideas and that your late husband, Mr Nkabinde and others were really resisting it working for the interests as they saw it.  In your statement you refer to vigilantes, you refer to them as Inkatha.  At some place you even refer to them as freedom fighters, I think on page, well that is not important at the moment, but you even refer to them as freedom fighters.  Can you tell us a little as to how you understood the division at the time?  Was it clear or was it for you too a bit of a confused situation.