MR MALAN
If I may just follow on this please, Mr Mapoma?  Am I perhaps hearing you correctly saying that the applicants shouldn't be granted amnesty for Vips, for the killing of Vips, because they say that they were not involved, and therefore we should take care of not granting amnesty for the killing of Vips to applicants, but at best for the abduction, the round-up, is that what you're saying?