VUYISILE LEBRAN MADASI
It is not so.  The reason why I say that is because I have a good memory of what happened and how it happened.  We approached these people, we had the guns.  He had not even entered the car.  We got to him before he got into the car, he was told to move aside.  I was talking to him.  As I was talking to him, that he must go onto the other side so that Nxeba can start the car and drive off.  Mlungisi was talking to the lady.  She is the one who was not too much in shock ...[end of tape]
	...[inaudible] to give in and not to run away.  She is the one who said they must listen to us, which they did.  There was no struggle.  I am the one who talked to him and I didn't hit him.  That's probably a statement that he gave to the police or the TRC, I don't know.  I don't know what led him to say this.  We could have shot him but we didn't, that showed that we talked and communicated with them.  If he had fought one of us we would have beaten him up.  Why didn't anyone shoot at him if they drawn a gun?