GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT
Firstly, we applied to technically monitor his telephone, listening to the conversations and when you make such an application, then you have to give the particulars of the telephone number as well as the address, as well as the activities of the person.
	And the telephone is then tapped by an informer at the Post Office or at the Post Office and then at the security branch we then tape it with - and it's at that specific telephone number.  That is why we technically taped this conversation and therefore I know that he could not have phoned from a different telephone otherwise I could have not received that information.