MR VAN DER BERG
Chairperson, I suppose one can speculate here.  What is the definition of a war situation, but if you look at his state of mind, any person who was acting at that specific moment in time, did not act within a war situation at that stage and this is very important.  The AWB was already retreating, so that is quite important.  The war which has been waged, already ended.
	I think it is De Koker who says that it was the last vehicle on its way out, apparently all the other vehicles were already out of Mmabatho so there can't be a war situation no longer.  Surely a war situation implies shots being fired from everywhere.
	But what happened here, was what happened between the police and the Defence Force.  You can't even be talking about a war.  If these people were shot in the Mercedes Benz, you can't even mention it, say it is a war situation because maybe the police were defending themselves.  It can't be a war situation.