MR HUGO
Now, as far as the reporting structures are concerned, let me just put it to you that your perception of how that were used, is not correct.  Mr De Kock says and we have had various other amnesty applications that dealt with this particular issue, that the arrangement was that whenever a Unit for instance from Cape Town or Durban, needed the services of the askaris or a Vlakplaas contingent, that they would not contact Mr De Kock directly, but that Mr De Kock's Section Head at that particular point in time, I think his rank at the time was Brigadier Schoon, would then be contacted and be told that the services of Vlakplaas are needed.  He would then in turn liaise with Mr De Kock and Mr De Kock would then arrange for Vlakplaas members to be sent down to wherever.
	Have you been aware of that?