MR LANDMAN
Mr Chairman, our submission is that that is not how the witness saw it.  Indeed his evidence before the intervention from the Committee, and I talk in this case of both Mr Malan and Adv Bosman, at that stage it was clear that these were separate groups, these were the Boere Ordevolk and other organisations that were separate.
	It was on suggestions by, it came out of the evidence or rather the examination by Adv Bosman, that they were what was in the words of the Committee member, affiliated groups.  An affiliated group is a group, it is something which operates separately, but is somehow connected to another group.
	What Mr Malan then did was to attempt to destroy that distinction altogether in order once again to bring the actions of those groups, into and under the umbrella of the AWB by now watering down the concept of affiliated groups, now to simply to be pseudonyms.
	Our submission is that that is an indication of Mr Malan's efforts in our submission, to demonstrate via this witness' answers, but to demonstrate and to plant a seed in everyone's mind, that well, whatever is said about splinter groups, this is nevertheless in fact AWB acting in whatever way.