MR JANSEN
time elapsed according to what I can - according to my memory, and the first time that I picked up poison from the - and knock-out drop, what we call it, from the police forensic laboratory, and specific from General Lothar Neethling, was on the 11th of October 1981, when Selby Mavusa was released from Brits Prison police cells after I got the instructions to get rid of him.  With Vusi, as we called him, there was another askari, Peter Dlamini, which we were also instructed to take out at the same time.  So I can remember picking up knock-out drops and poison from General Lothar Neethling for the first time on the 11th.  The poison did not work.  Koos Vermeulen, Captain Koos Vermeulen, went back the second day, after we administered it near Kopfontein Gate on a farm, which Koos Vermeulen used as a base whilst operating in the area.  He went back on the 12th to collect some more poison from Lothar Neethling, a double dose, which also did not work, and then General Lothar Neethling left for overseas.  At a stage - I think he returned on the 24th of October.  He went over twice in a short time, but on the 24th of October we were in the Groblersdal area, and that was the day that General Lothar Neethling came back from overseas.  We went to his house ... (intervention)