MR BLACK
Now, turn over the page.   You have, if, with the leave of this committee, a lot of this is background, so I will be going through it in a manner which is somewhat leading until there's objections.   I will give the under-taking that when it comes to the actual events, he will, in his own words, or he will testify and elaborate.   You say that for this committee to really understand more or less what was happening, you request that they do refer to evidence given before the Goldstone Commission, Human Rights Violation Committee of Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and specifically relating to evidence given by residents of all of the area implicated, that's the Ermelo, Secunda, Piet Retief area, during July of 1997, or no, sorry, that's the date when the commission sat.