UNKNOWN
And then De Kock says that you told him that if he, I'm assuming that this refers to Mr Lotz, if he would ever discuss the incident, well let's proceed to something else.  It's my memory that Van Zyl said that Lotz was still in prison.  Did you say this, that Winter was still drunk at that stage.  Is this true?  What is your memory?
	Is that once again also possible, or do you exclude it completely?