MR TIPP
Yes well let me put it again, and I'll put it more clearly.  The white gentleman that I've referred to has given evidence, or evidence has been accepted given by him under oath, that he was beaten by members of the group in which you were moving who were charging forward waving weapons in the manner of people carrying out an attack.  That evidence was given in the inquest, it was not challenged and it has been accepted here.  Now what do you say about that?