CHAIRPERSON
That is precisely the question.  Two of the applicants, more of them, I'm not even sure now, but in any case they've referred to Beyers.  The last applicant said that he accepted "Ek het aanvaar", he accepted that Mr Beyers was there in his capacity as the Secretary-General, after you had asked him about that.  He says Mr Beyers said nothing for or against what he had seen.  There is no indication whether Mr Beyers is under the impression that this could be training for defensive purposes, not necessarily sabotage or killing people.  There's no clarity as to what the position of Mr Beyers is.   We have this letter on page 70, indicating that the Conservative Party distanced itself from this.  Now this the official version that is before us.  Mr Steyn isn't here, he's not come to explain, he says he finds the allegations absurd and laughable.