MR LAX
Can I just add one thing to what the Chair has been saying?  We have that aspect, and then how do we then deal with their explanations, all the applicants, given to us, which skirts this issue, which is implicit in the way their versions are framed, and which tends to show other things.  So, the explanation wasn't well, I was worried about this or I was worried about, it's all about lawyers, interpreters, things not being read back to them, which, procedural things, which in the light of these, what the Chair refers to as deviousness, is a different thread.