MR MOKGATLE
On the day that we held our meeting at the Roman Catholic Church, we were members of the action committee, together with the Phiri, because we had been asking the Bophuthatswana Government many things that they wouldn't agree with.  When we met with the Phiri we took a decision.  We said to ourselves we are going to search for the keys, the keys to our offices.  Those keys do not belong to the Bophuthatswana Government, they belong to the Baphokeng tribe.  And then we left to go and see Mr Billie Ramirise.
	When we entered his place, trying to ask him where the keys were, the police arrived, the Bophuthatswana police.  They said nothing, they started shooting at people with the rubber bullets.  We hadn't had information about the keys.  And then we dispersed.  We were many.  And it happened that we came together as the action committee.  We said as an action committee we don't know where the keys are and we asked ourselves do we have any plan to get those keys, because they belong to us as the Baphokeng tribe.  Because there were many of us, there were a lot of suggestions as well.  
	And the decision to take Mr Mokgatle, the chairman, that was the right decision, because we thought he would tell us everything he knows about the keys.
	There was a concern raised, seeing that the police were so on arms, how can we get to Mr Mokgatle's house, are they going to shoot at us, what are we going to do.  Then we decided to kidnap Mr Glad Mokgatle.  The decision was to keep him at a place where he would not be seen by anyone.  
PHOKENG HEARING	AMNESTY/GAUTENG
74
We would interrogate him, to ask him questions about the keys.  And if he gives us an answer, some of our members would go and get the keys.  That was a very good suggestion and we all agreed.  
	We got into the Kombi, ten of us and we went to Chaneng.  When we arrived at Chaneng other members of the group got outside. They went into the house.  I was one of the people who stayed behind.  I was surprised to see them taking a long time.  Because we knew, kidnapping is something that happens so quick.  I wanted to go and investigate what was happening.  I used the front entrance and I met Mr Glad Mokgatle standing at the bedroom door, carrying a panga.  I was scared to enter because he would start with me, he would kill me first.  I decided to go to the back door.  When I entered the house he had already been grabbed by the rest of the men and they took him into the Kombi.  
	I thought he would tell us where the keys were.  There was no order in the Kombi, because everybody wanted to ask him where the keys were.   While he tried to answer there would be a question from the next one, and in that manner we couldn't hear where the keys were.  
	We drove into the veld.  I am working hard at Gauteng.  While we were still driving I saw the Kombi stopping.  The door was opened and Mr Glad Mokgatle was already on the ground, and it was a fight.  I got out of the Kombi and I just stood surprised.  I was really angry, because there was never such a decision to assault him.  I saw some of the members getting into the Kombi so quickly and it drove off.  When we drove off I had a look at Mr Mokgatle and I could see that he was still alive.  I took the sabre from him and 
PHOKENG HEARING	AMNESTY/GAUTENG
76
I chopped him.  I chopped him personally.  I chopped him because I realised that we were heading for the prison.  I wanted to seep away the evidence.  (Applause).
	I didn't want anybody to know or to have any light that Mr Mokgatle was here.  We went into the Kombi and we drove off.  
	On the way some of the people got off the Kombi. I went to a funeral at the vigil.  Later on I went home.  At home, the following morning, the police started to arrest people.  The whole day I wasn't feeling well, because I had never been arrested before and I had this strange feeling throughout my whole body. It came to pass.  I told my wife that this BOP police arrest anyone indiscriminately, but I didn't explain to her that we have committed a crime.  Then I moved away, saying that I would come later.  At that point I decided to go away to Johannesburg.
	I stayed a few days in Johannesburg and the BOP police came to Johannesburg and arrested me there.  They brought me back to BOP.   After I was here in BOP I appeared in court.  I was sentenced 15 years imprisonment.