MR MEYER
I will be brief as the Commissioner has asked me to be.  Chairperson on the first issue the reference to the quote on page 2, I don't have the document available now but I would gladly respond to that by making the document available to the Commission, so if I may I will immediately on my return to Pretoria send that through to the Commission.  I just don't have it available right now.
 On the second question Chairperson I am afraid that I don't have a specific framework within which to respond to the question.  The Commissioner apparently is referring to 
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general, or allegations of general gross human rights violations that took place in the Ciskei, if I understood him correctly.  If there would be specific points in that regard I guess it might be easier to respond and indicate what actions or steps we might have taken.  But I must again point out that the situation as far as the TBVC states are concerned, in general, at that stage, even in 1992 were such that they were regarded as independent states, wrongly maybe one would argue, but the fact of the matter is that we, from the South African side, didn't have the authority over the Transkei, Venda, Bophuthatswana or Ciskei for that matter to act like the Commission might have suggested.  These governments, again rightly or wrongly, were in full control of their own justice departments, they appointed their own civil servants in those different capacities, they had their own defence forces, their own police forces and so forth.  The question is therefore difficult to respond to unless there are specific references that the Commissioner would like to point out then maybe one can follow up on that.
 As far as the third question is concerned I don't have, unfortunately, that letter available to me that the Commissioner has referred to but I guess if that was what Gqozo has stated in that letter he might have referred to the so-called informal alliances that existed in Codesa.  And then maybe I should just for a moment refer to that and inform the Commission that at the time of Codesa, between Codesa 1 and Codesa II, that was between December and May, December of '91 and May of '92, there existed an informal alliance that consisted on the one side of the ANC and its formal alliance partners, namely the SACP and COSATU, together with a number of other parties, I think they were 
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all in all seven or eight parties that were on the side of the ANC, an informal alliance as far as the negotiations are concerned.  Similarly on the side of the then government there was also an informal alliance consisting of seven or eight parties and it's true that the Ciskean government was one of those parties in that grouping.  There were also other parties for instance the Homeland parties of KwaZulu Natal, I am sorry, yes the IFP was there of course, but other Homeland parties like for instance the Deconquetla from the old Kwa Kwa, Shimoko from Gazankulu and a number of others and the Ciskean Government was also part of that grouping and I think that is maybe what Gqozo has referred to.