JOE MAMASELA
No, in that meeting I don't recall that.  I recall him talking about the PEBCO 3 incidents but, with Sally Sele and I was talking with a Pierre and then it's only subsequent to my looking at this document at a very later stage, that I found that: Oh, he said this in Durban.
	And then I even pointed out that it's lies, it was Dirk Coetzee's lies.  I even pointed that out in the Supreme Court of Durban.