MR VAN DER BERG
Mr Chairperson, the applicant emphasises the fact that there was a situation of war and he pertinently said that there was shooting, and according to his version it stopped, the shooting that is.  And where the AWB members were lying at that stage there was no shooting and that is why I'm asking this question, to find out if there was truly a situation of war.  That is why we have to clear this up in order to find out if the situation was under control.