CHAIRPERSON
You see, the other issue that worries me is that clearly the order was that should we encounter any hurdle we're going to fight it out.  Now the roadblock was a hurdle.  Turn around, go to Dawn Park.  Essentially you say to discuss alternative routes.  Of course the routes through Germiston and all those established towns are out of the question because of the prospects of meeting policemen.  From what you tell me they had only had one other option then, go through Dawn Park through to Thokoza and then come to Vosloosrus through that route.  One must then question why that didn't happen and it follows then that certain other questions must be asked as to what real motive they had in this whole operation.  A stolen bakkie, one would have expect them to do their job as quick as possible and get rid of the bakkie.  They decide to park under a lamp post.  There's four hours, more or less four hours or let's say 5 o'clock they collected, two hours to account for between them collecting the arms and the arrest.  It doesn't make sense.  One must then also question whether we are being told the truth, whether those arms which if we accept and find were collected, were they really being collected for the purpose of self defence units or for some other reason?  Do you follow what I'm getting at?