CHAIRPERSON
Sorry Mr Mazaham to interrupt.  Mr Moringer, you say that you in 1988, you established contact with Charles Sebe who was then in Transkei and you then got introduced to the Major who is now the Colonel.  Why did you make contact with Sebe, was that through Intelligence business, were you in any way linked with the Intelligence in Ciskei or was it just coincidence or had you known him before, under what circumstances did you make contact with Sebe then in Transkei?