EDWARD WILLIAM HOLDER
Well I don't know Pretoria well and I don't know how the city's set up is, what the street layout is like and Mr de Meillon asked Mr van Zyl to go to, what's the street name, Vermeulen Street and we trailed up Vermeulen Street, we stopped next to the building there which is the military headquarters.  There were guards there and he wanted us to take away these guards' firearms from them and I asked him whether he was off his rocker when he wanted us to take away their firearms, I meant that I wouldn't do it and it was open, in the public, there were many people passing by, I was not prepared to get involved in a thing like that.