CHRISTOFFEL PIERRE VAN DER WESTHUIZEN
Chairperson, yes.  There were quite a few Xhosa leaders in the Ciskei and the Transkei.  Kaizer Matanzima, even in the period where he had retired he still had tremendous influence.  His brother George as Prime Minister and Minister of Defence also had that kind of support.
	Then in the Ciskei there were members of the blue blood chiefs such as Chief Lent Makoma, Ray Mali.  I can remember Deputy-President Kaba, Namba Sebe, the brother of Charles Sebe.  Now they were all political exiles. They had been accepted in the Transkei and they were figures of power for the Xhosa people.  We considered them to be credible leaders.  I can also include Charles Sebe on the security terrain.