MICHAEL BELLINGAN
...(inaudible)  Sorry.  Mr Chairman, in fact I was referring to number 11 under the, on this Annexure P, which is titled
"Sub-Section (d) - Murder.  Number 11"
I think it's the second-last page, second-last page.  That is the one I was looking at.  And I didn't want to upset anybody further by going into detail and quoting from documents, so I just basically left it at saying that that is the position.  But what I actually wanted to say referred to the record 603 to 612, 852, 855 and 453 as well as page 43 and 44 of Annexure B, which is paginated 65 to 66.  I wanted to refer to all of those things, Mr Chairman, because at Khotso House I, my advocate specifically put to General van der Merwe this specific quotation over here and he confirmed that it is correct, the quotation that I'm relying on, in terms of what Mr Wagener had said about this highly militaristic bureaucratic organisation.  But Mr Wagener's own client, General van der Merwe had in fact already confirmed at the Khotso House hearing that my quotation was correct, that when required, the lower ranks were entitled to act on own initiative.  And I was going to talk about all of that, so it actually, it wasn't in the context with the NUMSA matter at all, Mr Chairman.
MACHINE SWITCHED OFF