TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  On the 28th of December 1993, at the Pizza Hut at the Menlyn Hyperama, where Joe Mamasela and myself were present.  At a stage Captain Balletjies Bellingham also came in and he drank coffee with us.  I tried to convince de Kock to see the light at the end of the tunnel, to convince him that the war is over, and that the only way out is to open up about the truth, but I could see that I was not making any impression on him.  He did, however, arrange for another meeting two days later through Joe Mamasela, but he never turned up, and that was the last that I saw of him.