CHAIRPERSON
And obviously you can't be arguing in a vacuum.  We have an application form in front of us, and I'm sure you've actually had cause to peruse such an application form, completed by the applicant himself where he really does not refer to Mr Ntshetha as a Commander that night, he refers to him as a member of his organisation and I draw your attention to paragraph 11(a) where he says he committed the acts for which he seeks amnesty on behalf of his organisation, that being the ANC and paragraph 11(b) where, in response to your question which specifically requires him to indicate whether he committed the act in the execution of an order or on behalf of, or with the approval of the organisation, he states quite categorically, unequivocally that he committed the act as a member of his organisation, requested for an assistance when requested by another member, when he was being attacked by the deceased, so we must really never argue without relating to what really is the basis of what we are here for.