MR BERGER
It's my note.
"Joseph Malaza the same, this is the Hertz man, Thami Mnyele got involved in music, Dick Mtsweni regularly mentioned in reports, George Pahle, regularly mentioned in reports, Lindi Pahle, can't recall her name, not a suspect from our division, possible her name was mentioned by other divisions."
The asked who was definitely on the list of targets, he says:
"Thami Mnyele, Duke Machoabane, Dick Mtsweni, the old man, George Pahle".
Those were the four people that he remembers were definitely on the list of targets.  What evidence does he have?  He says regularly mentioned in reports.  Doing what?  He can't take it further than that.  Compare that with our evidence.  What do our people say about Thami Mnyele, or Dick Mtsweni, or George Pahle.  I ask the Committee to compare that evidence and then ask:  "Why is it that the people who were hit, were at best involved in the ANC in the non military side and why is it?  Because of examples, like Muff Anderson says to Mike Hamlyn:  "You better not stay at home."  Baleka Mbethe says to Thami Mnyele:  "You better not stay at home" and what happens?  They stay at home because they say:  "We're not targets."  They never even thought that the apartheid state would be mad enough to target them because what were they involved in that justified such a response?  All the people who were involved militarily, they get out of the way.