MR RAMAWELE
But I think for the Hearing to come to that kind of conclusion, then the Hearing also has to analyse the evidence of Nofomela, Mr Mbatha, Radebe, Vermeulen, to be able now to come to a conclusion that was Mr de Kock at the bridge or not.  The Hearing has to look at the credibilities of the people who testified here and it is my submission that when we look at their credibilities and their testimony, because we have to try and look whom to believe,  if we have to look at that, it is my submission that my client has to be believed, because somehow we have to use a criteria of believing somebody and if we look at their evidence, we analyse the evidence of the people who testified, it is my submission that, when Mr Nofomela says Mr de Kock was at the bridge, yes indeed, the evidence, his version should be believed particularly when we have regard to the evidence of Vermeulen, Radebe and de Kock and then you have the evidence of Mr Mbatha.  Then it must be believed that Mr de Kock was at the bridge.