JOHANNES JACOBUS VIKTOR
Now first of all Mr Chairperson you must realise that police and army in any country they have different cultures, different training, but to say there was a breakdown, with all due respect to General Olshig I don't think I can agree.  As I have stated here when I saw Mr Kasrils and some of the people running not into the stadium but outside I've said here that I've asked Major Simms, I said look send some people there and he did send I think two officers and some men.  We didn't know that these people were breaking out on the other side or going out of the stadium, I couldn't see there, but there was no breakdown in coordination.  As I have also explained we were responsible here at the tar road and we were only a handful of policemen and there was Brigadier Ngcobo and Major Simms, they were
EAST LONDON HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
23 J J VIKTOR
the two officers in charge and you know as a senior man once you have delegated your powers to your people then you just don't go and interfere, then there is really confusion.  You don't interfere.  And in this case I can assure you that there was no time, there was really no time to coordinate between army and police again.  It was a question of, I don't think even minutes, when these people, when I saw Mr Kasrils and the people running towards, I think it was the north-east side and the shots I heard, there was no time to coordinate any future actions.  That is my reply to you Ma'am.