JUDGE MGOEPE
Well, what you described in the second point is important but certainly it 
cannot be blown out of proportion, the important thing from what you have been saying is that they have 
difficulties, the applicants have difficulties as I understand you, in securing anyone else who could be 
willing, who is willing to come and help them.
The fact that Captain van Jaarsveld was involved in the development of that surely he couldn't have done 
that
single handedly, he must have done it in collaboration with 
PRETORIA HEARING	AMNESTY/