SISI KHAMPEPE
I think, sorry Mr Visser to butt in, I think, you know, the categorisation of people here in terms of victims and perpetrators was as a result of an application made by Mr Mbakwe and Engochla before the Human Rights Violations Committee which they were entitled to do in terms of Section 12 and the investigations which ensued was as a result of that application and that is why you have people being described as victims, because in terms of their own application they described themselves as victims and they described the names of your clients as perpetrators.  That is clearly as a result of their application in terms of Section 12, which is different from the application in terms of the amnesty process.