TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Let me just get to it please.  (Pause)  He was for sure not viciously assaulted.  I would accept that he would receive a clout or two.  That I would.  There is no du Plessis at Vlakplaas for sure, and never was in my time.  But some of the juniors could have done that, give him a clout or two, yes.  It's possible, quite possible, Mr Chairman.