TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  It's because maybe I also heard from my father.  From when our elder brother disappeared in 1961, there was a special branch from Empangeni used to come to my father at home.  It would mean that there is someone among those special branch that my father got to know very well.  They didn't come and harass us like other families used to be harassed.  I would say my father - they would come to my father, sit down with him and discuss with him, until that police, when Ndo had disappeared in 1981, until he appeared again in 1987, my father saw these police at Eshowe.  Unfortunately, I do not know his name, but my father does know the name of this police.  My father told this police about Ndo and he said his young son had disappeared.  These are the people who used to see each other and they would discuss about these people who had disappeared.  My father told the policeman that the younger one didn't come back.  We don't know where he is.  This is the police who said, oh, he knows about Ndo.  He is there somewhere in Transvaal.