ADV MEMANI
I think the answer should be I did not torture them to get any gain.  Now, that concludes the application listed as 2.14, the torture at Botshabelo and we will now proceed to the application in respect of the unlawful use of gangsters at 2.15.  It appears to pages 36 to 43 of the bundle.
	Mr Ngo, this is at page 14 of your pages and it is incident E, it is acts of offence - the use of gangsters to attack political activists.  Do you have that in front of you?