MR BOTHA
Mr Marais was - I was well aquatinted with Mr Marais, he was a member of the AWB.  He had his own business in Richards Bay. He had recently moved from the Transvaal to Richards Bay - I'm talking about the time that I got to know him. Because he was running his own business, he didn't want it to be generally known that he was a member of the Afrikaner Resistance Movement.
At that stage it suited me to keep it like that and when I founded the cell of the Orde Boerevolk I discussed it with him. Just as I had been recruited, I recruited him and submitted the oath form to him and asked him if he would be able to associate himself with the provisions in the oath and whether he was prepared to take that oath. He answered in the affirmative, and that is how I recruited him as a member of the Orde Boerevolk.