MR HATTINGH
Mr Chairman, I appreciate that.  I think in the instance of this particular applicant, no doubt he was convicted for those offences which he now admit, so we are not fishing for something which does not exist.  That is the first point I would like to make.
	The second point is, if in fact I was fishing for information, I did in fact catch two big fish then because I have something which I believe is relevant for this matter and if we carry on with this hearing without the full perspective, then we might as well sit back and listen to the applicant and that will be the end of it.
	Then there will be no need ...