MR MARTINI
Chairperson, I'll deal with that, before I deal with that, before I forget, one of the issues, it has also been suggested that Mr van Zyl got a flourishing business.  That was not the case.  Mr van Zyl's testimony was his business was breaking even.  I think it was making R3 000.  Mr van Zyl's evidence was also and this must be borne in mind, it's also been raised that there was litigation and packages were obtained.  Mr van Zyl resigned and his undisputed evidence was he never got any package.  He returned the BMW, he returned the shredder, he returned everything to the CCB and I raised that in my Heads that through his efforts he does admit that his business has become lucrative, but that's his own efforts, he never received a lucrative business when he resigned and he never received a retrenchment package or any useful, as I've heard, I don't recall the evidence but Mr Botha having received R200 000, Mr van Zyl there's no evidence that he got paid anything when he resigned.
	On the R7 000 issue Chairperson, if you recall Mr van Zyl's evidence was that he had received R15 000 for the Omar project, he had disbursed R5 000, two and a half thousand to two of the original hired assassins.  He then paid Mr Barnard and he conceded that Mr Barnard, you know he wasn't entitled to use Mr Barnard.  He paid Mr Barnard R7 000.  Mr Barnard himself says that - Mr van Zyl says he paid Mr Barnard R7 000 to recover his "onkostes", his disbursements.  Mr Barnard himself says in evidence, I think under cross-examination of Mr Bizos, that the R7 000 was to cover his air fares and hotels, not that he was paid a fee to kill anybody and then Chairperson, link that to the - what Mr van Zyl then says is he had then left with R3 000 from the Omar project.  In the ELC project he says the budget was authorised for R30 000, he received R25 000 from Mr Burger, he paid R18 000 ...(intervention)