ADV DE JAGER
You see Mr Shangweni, I've got this difficulty, he's applying for amnesty.  The evidence you're leading is sort of mitigating factors but you're not leading evidence about the applicant's personal motive in doing these things.  I've got difficulty to see what his motive was, what his political motive was, not what Djamile's motive was, to build and empire or to do whatever it was because we're not dealing with Djamile's application, we're dealing with the applicant's application.  And as far as that is concerned I think you should consider whether in fact there was any political motive because in the evidence before us I've got difficulty in coming to that conclusion as far as the applicant himself is concerned.