MR COETZEE
Mr Chair, if I could just assist.  I believe that the parties are talking passed each other at this stage, page 77 and I would respectfully point this out, that was just the finding of the Court a quo with regard to the case against Mr Van Zyl and Mr Holder, and this is the finding of the Court, this is not the testimony that Mr Van Zyl, or the evidence that Mr Van Zyl would have given.
	The Court in line 24 as part of the finding says that it is clear that this visit to Pretoria is a figment of the imagination.   This is not the evidence of Mr Van Zyl's that he is being confronted with, but rather the finding of the Court.