MICHAEL BELLINGAN
Kobus was the second attorney that the TRC had arranged for me at that stage via, I think it was Legal Aid.  It was Legal Aid.  Then I say
"You know Kobus has not been back here, we've never really progressed further."
Jan says:
"No"
His voice intonation there meaning in agreement as in we've never progressed further.
"On that"
I say.