MR BLACK
No, that is not what I am saying Mr Chairman.  What I am saying this particular applicant and their particular behaviour in this situation, was essentially criminal in its activity and not as political as it has been portrayed.
	I don't, I have no intention of cross-examining on the minute here of what took place.  I just want to put it to you Mr Ndlovu, that the - you threatened Mr Sibisi to take you up to Lydenburg, he didn't do so voluntarily.