ANDRIES HENDRIK ALBERTS
They took place over a couple of months.  Before December 1990, on the 16th of December 1990, Jean Kruger du Plessis and I and the other applicant, Mr Van Wyk and two other persons who were only known to me as White and I think the other person's name was Graham.  This was at a holiday resort in the Northern Transvaal.  That's where we met to discuss further the establishment of this underground organisation.  We discussed various elements. I recall specifically that Mr Van Wyk, the other applicant at that stage wasn't strongly in favour or very enthusiastic. I don't know, I don't know if he didn't trust me. I wasn't acquainted with him, but we discussed these things very earnestly.  We talked about the question of unconventional methods and specifically we talked of robbery from financial institutions to obtain funds, because we knew that we would never be able to obtain adequate or sufficient funds simply by relying on donations and so on.
	And so we discussed the use of other conventional methods of acquiring funds in order to achieve our aims and objectives ideologically.