MR PHOSA
No, no, just listen to my approach now and not the one that you've prepared.   I'm asking you, before you decided: "Now we are going to kill these two - eliminate these two", did you and the other three colleagues not Mr van - Mr Erasmus, did you - the three of you or two of you perhaps approach Mr Erasmus and say: "We now think for these reasons these two must be eliminated", didn't you do that?