MR STEWART
Mr Chairperson thank you.  According to my recollection that, really one's talking about two instances, or two scenarios, the one is the seizing of cattle where there's a Zulu name for that, amakambanyana or ...  I'm sure there're others in the room who'd be better at pronouncing it than I am, but there's no evidence of the applicants actually being involved in that themselves, so that one doesn't need to deal with that further.  And then the other one is in the area of clearances, situation of burning down houses and so on, there is a mention, Mr Chairperson you're certainly right in that respect, of that, if one can say it, minor level of looting, but there's no evidence of the applicants being involved in that.  That, if you like, was not the soldiers but the crowds who may have involved themselves in that from time to time.  In fact the evidence on that is extremely, there may be between Mr Magadi and myself, we can recall one mention of it.  It is something we can look for. ...(intervention)