MR RAMALIGELA
Well, I can't deny that I tortured them so much or extensively, however what I can not agree on what they are saying is that personally I didn't really touch them personally on my own.  I can't remember touching them.  Well yes, they were tortured, because they were arrested and I was also part of the people who ...(indistinct) them.  We did deprive them of their rights.  We detained them and some of them were not really properly functioning at our works, and some of their businesses were not operating as normal as it would appear. (The mike is not on)