MS THABETHE
It's a difficult one but Madam Chair, I think as a member of an SDU he would be expected to know who his commander is.  At the same time, like my learned friend has said, he seemingly was young, and even 'though he might have been long standing as compared to Radebe, but probably Radebe was more experienced than Mr Mkhwanazi with relation to the activities and the structures and the whole, you know, how the SDU activities were operated and whatever.  So what I'm saying is even 'though Mr Radebe could have been the last one to get into the structure, probably he was much more experienced than Mkhwanazi, but that's just an argument, Madam Chair.