MR MADASA
Thank you, Mr Chair, I'll come to that point just now.
	Therefore, I submit that in the overall, all the applicants were honest and disclosed their participation as individuals and collectively in the killings.
	Now, coming to what Mr Chair has just highlighted, these are allegations that are coming from Tusanang, that somebody will killed.   Oscar Motlokwa denies this, that he killed any person.   Now, therefore, there's a conflict on this point.   
	I submit that the way to look at it is to look at the overall conduct of the applicants when they were rounding up these people.   Oscar is one of the people who saw Vips and Tusanang, with his own eyes, at Blanko's place.   Yet when he met Tusanang, he did not kill him.   The conduct of the applicants, Mr Chair, was not that of killing on sight.   I submit the evidence, any suggestion is going against the evidence which is before the committee that the applicants wanted to execute people.   I submit that that allegation from Tusanang must be rejected.    
	Another reason for that, Tusanang goes on to say Armoed also wanted to kill him, but the gun, his firearm jammed, and I submit that was another demonstration of that Tusanang was lying before this committee, because if Armoed wanted to do so, he could have done so too, because other people were armed, if it had jammed, he could have taken another firearm and shot at him, and in fact Armoed admitted before the committee that he killed people, those he killed, he did not deny it, he did not run away from killing people.    He would not have hidden the fact that he wanted to shoot Tusanang but the gun jammed, but I submit that Tusanang exaggerated or lied before this committee, with a view to discourage the committee from granting this amnesty, but he did not have good enough evidence to do so, he merely made bold allegations against them.    
	I therefore say the conduct of the applicants when they were rounding these people, does not indicate in any manner that they were out to kill them on sight.  In fact people were released, those they thought had nothing to do with the incidents, and that conduct, Mr Chair, does not support the view that Tusanang, I mean Oscar Motlokwa killed somebody, and I'm saying this against the background that Motlokwa was a straightforward witness, he never contradicted himself, he revealed matters which were not even important to his application.
	Now coming to Vips's mother ...(intervention).