MR CLAASSEN
Thank you.  Mr Chairman if I might just start referring to the bundle, and specifically Mr Magwaza's application.  I think in the bundle, specifically on page 49, it is shown that Mr Magwaza on the 7th of May 1997 submitted an application to the TRC which was received and then given a submission number 6447/97.  Mr Chair I would also refer to this then as the application, the applicant's first application.  And if one notes the contents of the application, to a great extent the applicant denies any guilt or involvement in the incident for which the applicants are before this Committee today.  Mr Chair, based on this particular application, he was also then ...(intervention)