UNKNOWN
That will be very nice, thank you.  I walked, I was horrified by that experience, it was so deliberate, it was so swift and I could clearly identify three different people with torches.
 They disappeared and I didn't see them again.   I walked to the corner of Terminus and Spilecha Roads and saw two groups of "witdoeke" moving in the direction of KTC.  They were groups of approximately 20 or 30 people in each group, accompanied by caspers.
 They were carrying sticks, knives, panga's, axes, metal bars and similar things.  In Spilecha Road I noticed a badly injured man at the southern edge of the soccer stadium.  He was about three, four metres from the actual road.
 There is an entrance to the soccer stadium there and there is also some sort of bus shelter, I think.  He was laying on his back, naked from his waist up.  There was no way of identifying him, but as I knelt besides him, I took my anorak off and put it over him and tried to render assistance.
 I remember the warm blood on my hands.  I put my hand on his head and prayed for him.  And then I saw that he had a deep slash in the neck and in fact his head moved slightly to one side without his body moving and opened up this deep gash.  
 I decided that I shouldn't try and move him, that I needed medical assistance and just before I could do anything a casper came passed very slowly.  The casper was within seven metres of us, moving I would think at certainly less than 10 kilometres an hour and I stood up and I waved madly at him to try and attract attention.
 I had eye contact with the driver and it was quite clear that he had seen me and seen the man and he just drove on.  I couldn't believe it because here was a man dying.
 And at that point I ran to the Clinic which was around the corner and sought the assistance of medical staff.  I returned to the badly injured man with two Doctors and I can't remember whether it was one or two nurses accompanying me.
 The Doctor said there is nothing that we can do, and that man died in my arms.  I then moved by car with the Reverends David Cook, John Frye, Rod Ellis and Allan Smith to the junction of the football stadium with the eastern boundary of KTC.
 I was outraged that the caspers were not doing anything to stop the "witdoeke" or to assist the KTC residents and I approached one of the policemen who would not identify himself again in the casper, and asked him what the overall aim and objective of the police was and he said to prevent violence.  I said well what are you doing to prevent violence.
 I haven't seen you do anything and he replied that he couldn't tell me anything and he dismissed me.  I was outraged.  I have a brother in the British army who has trained the SAS which is the sort of crack regiment or group that is pulled in when there is hijackings and things like that and I knew perfectly well from witnessing events that he was involved with, that he with eight soldiers could have prevented the caspers coming down that road.
 It occurred to me that if only I could get a group of clergy trained in non-violent direct action to link arms across that road, the caspers would in fact stop rather than run us over.
 But we didn't have people sufficiently trained and when I did attempt that later at the first shots which were warning shots fired over our heads, everybody except one person in the line, apart from myself, disappeared.  It was a very intimidating situation.
 The "witdoek" were now advancing into KTC, windows of shacks were being broken, there was looting, there was burning.  I saw many shacks being torched, I saw many policemen standing by doing nothing.  One of them said to me, how can we catch these men and I said well, I could.
 You know, why can't you?  These things were happening metres and when I say metres, I am talking within 10 metres of policemen.
 I specifically remember a number of possessions being stolen from these houses as they were being torched.  I particularly remember a transistor being taken and people walking off with these possessions and torching other shacks.
 I was making notes while all this was happening and at about  twelve noon a police officer came over and told me that I was under arrest.  A media person who was present spoke to me - I replied briefly that I was a witness of these tragic events and inept police actions.
 And I think that that was captured on the video.  I was not allowed to speak to the media any further, I was ordered into the back of a casper and the Reverend John Frye said if I was being arrested, he was coming with me and he also got into the casper.
 I was taken to Mannenberg police station and after approximately 30 minutes, I protested and said what are you arresting me for, these hands have held a dying man today, these hands have prayed for people.  I have simply witnessed events, what are you arresting me for?
 The Captain to whom I was speaking, his eyes fell and after a few moments silence he said you are free to go.    That really concludes my evidence about the 9th of June.
 On the 10th of June I was responsible for the training of approximately 25 young Priests, the training was taking place in All Saints Plumstead and after the service, I  suggested that we in fact do some field training and go to KTC and observe first hand what was happening.
 As always when you have got a group of clergy around, there was a considerable discussion and (indistinct), but in the end we went.  I noticed "witdoeke" approaching us in - down the road from Crossroads and from the administration block, down towards KTC.  This road seems to have been given a number of different names, so I am not sure which the right name is.
 But the significant thing is that casper number 98 had four or five White rags displayed from its gun ports.  And it was transparently clear to me that it was transporting "witdoeke".  And certainly behind it, there was a group of about 50 or 60 "witdoeke" following it.
 I've got the details and the numbers of all the caspers involved, but I won't detain you with that.  What was significant in the KTC trial was that when I mentioned that, the Senior Counsel for the police jumped up and said that clearly I must be short sighted because the police would give evidence that what I saw were not white rags, but white polystyrene cups such as I see one or two of you have there.
 The Senior Counsel on our side, Henry Viljoen then jumped and said that he wanted an (indistinct) demonstration and we had - and then the Supreme court adjourned and then we had this wonderful pantomime in the heart of KTC with the Judge looking very frightened, having never been to KTC before.
 I asked him specifically and I suppose there were several hundred local residents who turned out, this was of course 18 months later, more, to see what was happening with all these gowned figures.
 And the casper came down the same road, turn the same corner and stopped.  And then they said there was a problem, the Judge asked what the problem was and they said that the white polystyrene cups would not fit into the gun ports of the casper.
 Whether this was recorded in the court proceedings, I am not sure, but I was very close to the Judge at the time and I overheard him say well, get smaller ones then and at that point a rather crest fallen police Major said that there were no smaller ones manufactured.
 And that for me captured something of the stupidity and the lies and the deception and the deceit of this whole business.  This is another thing which captures something of the spirit of the people involved.
 There was a South African Police helicopter which came down very low, it had SAP underneath so it was clearly identifiable and it was a clear act of intimidation, because it came so low that it whipped up the sand and the grit and the small stones and my legs were in fact slightly scarred through my trousers as a result of holding my ground there.
 Many people scattered but I stayed with a number of other people and a man called Elijah, who worked in the Clinic was next to me.  And this is what for me encapsulates something of the courage and the spirit of people of those days.
 He bellowed into my ear wit his face right against my ear because it was making a deafening noise, he said that is what the SAP mean by keeping a low profile.
 There are many other details and incidents which I could narrate, but I noticed a police video photographer using a Beta movie, accompanied by a person giving a sound recording commentary in front of us at one point.
 Their bakkie was unmarked, but it bore the number plates CA438 818 and some of that was shown during the trial.  This was now in what became during the trial to be called Dune Road, but I think was not called such at the time.
 What was very striking, was that caspers would patrol up and down Dune Road alongside KTC, and I never saw a single gun pointed away from KTC.  Every gun was aimed and every shot fired was into KTC.  And I quite clearly saw a burst of about ten shots giving what the army called, covering fire, to "witdoeke" who went in underneath that fire, so that the residents of KTC would take refuge and then the "witdoeke" would go in under cover of that fire and torch shacks.
 I witnessed that at 12.35 and again between 12.40 and 12.45 on that day.  I also saw casper number 106 drive into KTC and believe that it was transporting "witdoeke" because of what I heard, although I didn't see - because of what I heard from inside that vehicle as it passed within three metres of me.
 I quite clearly heard Xhoza being spoken, shouted.  It was also clear to me that the "witdoeke" were being coordinated by whistles at this point.  Just before 1 pm an occupant of casper number 80 informed us that the casper would take us out of the area because it was dangerous for us.
 I replied that the only danger to me seemed to me to be the police.  Shortly after that as I walked across KTC, between the burning shacks, one "witdoeke" came and actually knelt at my feet and asked me to give him absolution for what he was doing.  I said I didn't think that that was appropriate, but that I hoped that he would not continue.
 At 1.15 there was six shots fired from casper 108, again scattering KTC residents.  And again there was more burning as the "witdoeke" advanced.
 I am fairly sure that on NY5 at around this time, this is now 1.35 I saw Dolf Odendaal in a bakkie and also Warrant Officer Barnard.   Throughout - oh, and another casper, I am not sure whether I have the number here, fired two canisters of tear gas directly as us, they in fact missed by about two metres.
 But it was a clear act of intimidation.  Because they could see that I was taking notes of what was happening.  Now throughout the several hours that I was there on the 9th and the 10th of June, I saw no attempt whatever by the police to restrain the "witdoeke".
 I saw not a single "witdoeke" arrested and I could have arrested several myself.  I understand that it is a matter of court record that Dolf Odendaal said that no "witdoeke" were arrested and yet people like myself and media people, were arrested and taken out of the area.
 I would like to know why?  Further no attempt was made by the South African Police to defend KTC or its inhabitants.  And despite the order that had been taken out with the court restraining, precisely those two groups, the police and the "witdoeke", and finally under this section it was clear to me that the defending groups, people defending their houses, were constantly harassed by the SAP.
 Now finally I want to speak just for a moment about - because I had been asked to do so - about the Church's role subsequent to these events.
 With so many thousands of people burnt out from their homes, and prevented by the police from recovering what possessions were left, the Churches not only in the immediate area but right through to the southern suburbs opened their halls and transported people who were essentially refugees - they had literally nowhere to lay their head and often in very bad conditions, where there was no privacy, where for the first few nights we struggled to get any mattresses or blankets or clothing, we had hundreds of people in almost every hall and I can name at least 12 church halls that were inundated with people like this.
 After the first night or two, numbers dropped slightly and from then on through to the end of September, in many cases, it was mainly women and children and we provided food, quite a lot of first aid and medical help.  Initially it was pretty much a sort of welfare thing, doing for these poor unfortunate people but increasingly they found a voice and we strategised together and were I think able to do something in empowering them as communities to organise and to strategise.
 There were some pretty elementary counselling and support.  There was a little training in one or two instances.  Some people got jobs, a number of people still to this day are working as giving domestic help in homes in the southern suburbs precisely because of good relationships formed at that time.
 Some money was raised and in at least two of these church halls that money at the request of the people concerned, went towards purchasing building materials and certainly in Plumstead each family was given 10 sheets of zinc each to enable them to start to rebuild their lives.
 And there was singing and worship and so on.  But during this time we received pretty consistent police harassment and interference.  On many occasions they visited us and made threats to the people involved. 
 We were asked to pay a R300-00 admission of guilt fine for housing Black people in a White area and the police demanded that we put them out, that was their actual phrase.
 We refused to do so and the following days we received similar threats.  One of the sort of things that they resorted to was to bring in health officials who claimed that we hadn't got adequate showers for this number of people in these church halls and we pointed out that there weren't many showers in KTC either.
 It was almost that fascicle.   But my sense is that through all that tragedy I and many others were privileged to make profound relationships, learn many great lessons and although I say it with shame, have something of our own naivety stripped away painfully from us.
 Thank you.