UNKNOWN
Thank you Mr Chair.  Mr Chairman I will try to answer them as we go.  The procedure in terms of bilateral agreements which were signed prior to my taking over, which I could not get out of, which I tried to, but they were cast in stone, was that there was a body that was called the Combined Management Board.  A meeting which took place monthly between the South African Defence Force top officials and the Ciskei Defence Force top officials which would have - their aim was to discuss matters of common interest viz a viz training courses, financial problems, military threats and so on and to exchange intelligence.  Now any request for any training or for any in-service training or any secondment should be lodged through that body.  There was also later a military attache office.  That attache would be called in, a problem would be discussed and he would take it further to his government, and also these would be discussed in the CMB meetings.  That's where Pretoria would then suggest so-called highly qualified people who had a measure of having worked in circumstances almost akin to the ones in Ciskei, viz a viz they worked once in a Black military base or whatever, or they have been deployed in other areas of South Africa, in the Homelands and so on, so that's where actually the supply of professional personnel or expert personnel came from.
 We had a veto power, we could say we don't like this one, we don't like that one, based on limited information that we could have of those people.  What was appearing on their CV's could put us at a very bad advantage if we want to argue against any one of them because of our personal knowledge or whatever we knew about him, but in many cases you only knew that this person has got an agenda different from what he has been sent here for after he has made a lot of blunders.  And I must say that any time as soon as I realised that there was such a need to distrust a person I sent him back immediately.  
 And the fact that these people had taken over positions that could have been done by Ciskeians was merely because the military is a highly specialised area. To become a colonel you've got to go through the mill in many cases.  No crash courses can actually enable you to perform the duties and responsibilities and have the background to be able to run a battalion or whatever in the manner that would you know fruitfully improve or develop your department.  So that was - although we wanted to be self-sufficient that was overridden by the fact that we needed to have somebody who could control the troops at that level, who could be respected because of what he knows and who could impart the knowledge that was necessary for troops to reach that standard and we didn't have.  Due to the history of the Ciskei Defence Force senior officers were never trained until 1988 when I was a military attache there and I started making inroads into getting senior officers to be trained as staff officers at the army officer schools and battle schools.  But in the past that was taboo to Blacks, and there was no attempts to do that.  People were just promoted up to general without having that training and they made no impact into improving the standard of the army.  So by the time we took over the ideal situation could have been to have officers, also men, certain departments, perhaps overseer directors generals, but we had standards of education and of self-development in terms of military courses so low that that didn't happen, hence we had civilian ministers in them most.