MR HATTINGH
From the side of the victims there are witnesses available, I just want to put it to you that they will state and they will testify that in fact that you were present on that Sunday morning with other ANC comrades as well as the police when Mr John Mndebele had a discussion with the brother of Frans Ngwenya - Chris Ngwenya - and at that time you indicated to other people, let's call them IFP people, the friends of Chris Ngwenya, that you were going to kill five of them?