URIAL ABRAHAMSE
Mr Chair with your permission I would first of all like to clarify the circumstances because it appears that there is some confusion in this regard.  It's not everybody who left South Africa as a political activist and being absorbed immediately into ANC structures, in the way in which we've heard Ms Anderson talking about being absorbed into ANC structures.  Lots of people just left the country, either legally by means of crossing the border by means of a passport, or illegally by means of skipping the border.  When you get to Botswana, or let me say when we got to Botswana, you were required to apply for refugee status.  That involved going to the police station and declaring yourself a refugee.  The standard procedure of the Botswana police was to ask you, do you want to join the ANC, do you want to join the PAC, do you want to join the - AZAPO didn't have any organisation in Botswana, it was called the Black Consciousness Movement.  The Botswana Police would ask you do you want to join the BCM or did you not want to join any organisation.   The ANC was the only organisation which had a clear organised presence in Botswana in the sense of having had what was then called a Chief Representative.  In the even where you said that you wanted to join the ANC, the Botswana police would call the ANC chief representative, who at the time was Mr Isaac Makoko and Mr Makoko would come to you and would require two things.  The first is he would require you to write what was called a biography.  In other words you had to write a statement about your life up to the point where you arrived in Botswana.  The second is that Mr Makoko would require from you a decision as to whether you wanted to study or whether you wanted to join MK and that was standard procedure for the majority of people who left the country and became ANC members.  In the even where you wanted to study, there would be further options available.  It was possible to remain in Botswana and study there or it was possible for the ANC to take you from Botswana to Tanzania to Somafko, to Solomon Mahlango Freedom College where you would await the opportunity for a scholarship.  I think the distinguishing factor between remaining in Botswana and going to Somafko was your choice of study.  The University of Botswana for instance could not offer a course in architecture and therefore one of the chaps who lived with us, Alan Samuel, wanted to become an architect, had to leave Botswana, go to Somafko from where he went to German, he is now a successful architect practising in Germany.  That was the procedure.  Further to that, if you had indicated that you wanted to undergo military training or you wanted to undertake a course of study which was not offered in Botswana, you would be taken to live in Dukwe refugee camp, which is not too far from Francistown in the Northern part, well it's really central Botswana, but in terms of the road which crosses through Botswana, its in the North.  You would be required to live at Dukwe Refugee Camp until such time as the facilities were there for you to leave and then undertake your course of study, so if we were to take the definition offered by Ms Anderson, in other words of a person being an ANC member who is active within a unit of the ANC who is receiving direct political instructions, then Mike was not a member of the ANC.  Does that answer your question.