CHAIRPERSON
I don't know if you'll be able to answer me but you drive all the way from Durban to Bethlehem to come and extract very important information, vital information according to what you say, there's somebody in your organisation undermining it etc. so it's very important organisation, you drive the whole way from Durban to Bethlehem, you then interrogate Mr Gordhan for obviously a very short while, less than ten minutes because the suffocation process must have taken a few minutes in itself and then you torture him for, on your version, also less than ten minutes and the whole procedure comes to an end after ten minutes.  It seems extremely quick, you know one would have imagined that first of all the interrogation as suggested by Mr Lax would have been much longer, more questions and then even the torture would have been more sustained, take a break, come back again, carry on, until the person is reduced to talking but it seems very strange that taking into account the importance of the information you were trying to get out of the victim, the fact that you had travelled so far, it's all over in ten minutes?  I mean I should imagine that most people who are interrogated and who are subjected to torture initially uncooperative, that's why there's torture and we've heard on a number of occasions matters concerning torture where the torture process has endured, often it's short but it's often endured until there's absolutely, the interrogator is absolutely sure that there's no chance of any cooperation but it seems very premature to have stopped in such a short while.