PIETER JOHANN VERSTER
No, Chairperson, I cannot recall that.  There were meetings where I spoke to Krappies Engelbrecht or to Gen Badenhorst but if you place it in the context of the time, I have to emphasise that something was happening to the CCB and that was that the State, for whom we worked, were moving us out and they quietly caucused between Gen Webb and Gen Geldenhuys and the Ministers who said: "Let us make a clinical cut here, let's just cut out this region 6, let us just cut out the CCB" and this led to confrontation, for example the day when the first bomb exploded, figuratively where we were disclosed and I went to Gen Liebenberg's house and he said that Gen Badenhorst had been appointed and I told Gen Badenhorst that he was unreliable.  I knew him for many years.  He was someone who would stab you in the back at other times and I dealt with it as such and there was severe in-fighting where I could see that and where things were turned around.  Facts were constructed so as to make it look that we did things on our own which is not the case and that was the order of the day.