VEJANAND INDIJI RAMLAKAN
Meaning to be part of that command cadre which was headed by Tami Zulu for the purpose for the period in which we're applying for amnesty.  He was part of that command cadre, he was not in the command line.  The direct commander was Tami Zulu and as I understand it, the instructions or whatever instructions came, which were not all given to me.  Mind you, I was part of the command cadre but I played a role and it was also on a need to know.  If it was decided that I didn't need to know about certain things, these were not - information was not divulged to me.  It was not as if we sat down and had a meeting and took minutes about who said what, etc.  But what I can say is that in my discussions with Raymond Lalla, one on one and with at one stage, I think it was with Sihle and Tami Zulu.  The discussions were general, they were not specific.