RECORDING EXTREMELY POOR
...[inaudible] middle of the page, three quarters down the page
		"....and also watched Mandela's and Chris Hani's 
house during the night".
	On the 22nd of April 1993, Deetliefs and Beetge visited the 
applicants in prison.  According to page 311, Deetliefs quotes 
from Langenhoven and once again it's the Captain's question and 
Walus answering.  There Mr Deetliefs also mentions in his words, 
that this quotation from Langenhoven portrays the ...[indistinct] 
of the applicant at that time.
	Mr Chairman, according to Deetliefs statement on 211, that 
quotation does not appear on the tape made during that specific.  
This person listened for hours to these tapes and made up his own 
...[indistinct] and wrote his statement.  This quote does occur on 
tape number 9 on the 18th of April at 14H45 as you can see on 
page 133 where it's based on question and answer by Walus and 
Deetliefs but on the tape Deetliefs and Beetge are still busy with 
this clandestine operation they are going to execute to support 
the right wing.  ...[indistinct] had come and he said
		"...[indistinct] a quotation and he mentioned it to the 
applicant"
	The applicant sat still, according to the tape, and it's very 
clear that he did not really realise what the meaning of the 
quotation was.  He did not understand the meaning because he did 
not react, Beetge made the quotation and he did not react and 
then Deetliefs came and he explained to the applicant what the 
meaning of that quotation was.  Deetliefs explained it and he 
applied this ...[indistinct] to the "Wit Wolve".  	What is there, 
what is stated there what the applicant should have said is 
absolutely wrong.
	This is all regarding the quotation but there is a long 
statement made by Deetliefs(?) from page 312 to 321, regarding 
certain identifications which had been made which did not take 
place.  ...[indistinct] done by another officer and usually a 
photographer accompanies them.  Deetliefs said there was a 
photographer but the applicant said he went to the ...[indistinct] 
and the applicant said they had some beer there and a 
photographer was never present there and he never ...[indistinct] 
Mr Mandela's house.
	I wish to argue that the applicant did not make any 
statements apart from the statement where he said he did not want 
to make any statement and these written notes which is the 
applicants version and that the other so-called statements 
...[indistinct] are mentioned in Deetliefs statement have no value 
should be attached to those because they are absolutely wrong 
and Deetliefs is an absolutely unreliable person.  This is 
supported by the video tapes and by the statement.
	Mr Prinsloo has already ...[indistinct] regarding Mrs 
Beyers.  I refer to that in my heads, I'm not going to do it now.  
The applicant denies that during that time he went to Mr 
Mandela's house.  ...[indistinct] as mentioned by the family 
...[indistinct].  The fact that the applicant, it was said that the 
applicant - his evidence for amnesty was changed after Mr 
...[indistinct] programme.  	I want to submit to you that the 
changes had already been made on September in 1996, where he 
said he acted on instruction of Mr Clive Derby-Lewis.  I want to 
submit that there is no evidence at all that there was a 
...[indistinct] conspiracy.  
	I also want to submit to you that the applicant, that there's 
no evidence that it was found that there could have been a 
possible conspiracy in compiling the list or any other conspiracy, 
the applicant was not aware of that.
	Then I want to submit that the applicant complied with the 
requirement - and I've also presented my heads on the various 
requirements.  And ...[indistinct] and according to Section 
...[indistinct] 2(a) and ...[indistinct] that they are applicable to 
the ...[indistinct] and that he should get amnesty.