MR VISSER
Mr Chairman, there is only one last aspect which I will fail in my duty if I don't remind you of it and that is that when Botha gave evidence before you in the Cele matter when we dealt with Operation Vula background, you will recall that we gave you a reference to the evidence which he gave before Justice Wilson and his Panel in November last year, in the record of Ndwandwe and we gave you the reference pages.  I don't know whether you require me to give you those pages again.  I must say I haven't got it.