CHAIRPERSON
Sorry, I think Mr Gwamanda, you've told us how you got to meet and to know Colonel Roets and the others you mentioned, I think the thrust of Mr Nel's question is, when did you know or how did you know that he was AWB as opposed to a senior officer in the prison?  Were you introduced to him as being an AWB member as opposed to a prison authority because not all prison authorities are AWB members.