FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson yes, at that stage myself and Mr Botha practised twice daily in a gym and also then at the Roodepoort Rugby Club.  We both played.  He mentioned to me that he received this task to work on Bruce White and that he had a problem, or problems.  He's alone on the corner, there were not a lot of details, he had a photograph of him and a little bit more information.  There was an address of the Urban Foundation, I think it was in Fox Street in Johannesburg.  I then decided to accompany him there and over a period of two days we were there three times.  At the last opportunity, members of the Brixton Murder and Robbery Branch arrived and they asked us what we are doing there on the corner of the street.  It was a mistake I made because I spoke to a security guard at the building and I inquired from him where Mr White was parking.  We were a little bit frustrated.  It was a mistake and it was my mistake and it was not Mr Botha's mistake.  I did not know how sensitive Mr White was and if this thing was reported and this then led that we were confronted on the corner of the street and asked to drive behind the detective to the Brixton Murder and Robbery branch so that we can give an explanation because the Captain who reported it over the radio, did not want to accept our explanation.  We then went to the Brixton Murder and Robbery offices.  We found Capt Zeelie and we gave an explanation, an explanation that we worked out on the way there.  This explanation was not acceptable to him  because of certain very obvious reasons and later that evening I fabricated an explanation by going to a person and then to pretend that I was looking for a vehicle that an insurance company was looking for that was a white BMW vehicle.  I then turned the whole thing that I took the relevant details of the vehicle and handed it over to Mr Botha and he then presented it to Capt Zeelie that if the guard misunderstood me, I was asking about a white BMW, but here is a vehicle that ...(indistinct) and there's a reference to an insurance company and this explanation was then accepted.