MR MALAN
Mr Khumalo, this may help you a little because what is questioned is not whether it was a military operation, that we have the - the application we have the information as has been pointed out to you by the Chair.  We even have the supporting affidavit of Mr Mpashlele so the political is not questioned, we wanted information as to the payment in deed but I think you are saying to us you were not involved in the operations, nothing was reported to you so you cannot shed light on the amounts that were paid over to Msiki, you have no knowledge of that?