BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE
Mr du Toit, sorry, I don't want to interrupt you, but I just want to tell you that I have got two profound difficulties on which I would like you to help me.  You have touched them, but not clearly enough, and to me they are very basic, they are very fundamental.  The first one is you referred to section 21 (b) - and you must tell me if you want to come back to it or you want to deal with it now, but that is now ... (intervention)