MR TSHOLANKU
Mr Chairman, my understanding is that he is dissociating himself to the statement of the 8th of June.  He says after he made this statement, he then went to Laurens Mbatha and told him what had happened and Laurens Mbatha then took him to the HRV hearings where he then made a statement under oath.  I'll establish with the applicant as to which statement under oath is he referring to.