CHAIRPERSON
Yes, but assume all that.  Just keep your finger on that, yes, sorry, otherwise it's going to switch off again.  Assume it was an ANC meeting where a discussion took place in respect of these people and a decision is taken to kill them, the applicant is part of that, would that make him party to a conspiracy?  I'm going to put the other scenario to you now, that my colleague Adv Bosman has spoken about.