PIETER JOHANN VERSTER
No, Mr Chairperson.  I just want to have the opportunity to bring something out.  You must understand that the organisation, the CCB, at that point in time and I'm now speaking about before 1989, did very sensitive work for the previous government and at that time and afterwards, and with the speech of F W de Klerk in February 1990, the Harms Commission, the Webster Inquest, the State at that time was worried about the fact that its involvement with the functioning of the CCB would then come to light and this caused that our structure, the CCB, was of the biggest enemies of the then government at the end of the day and what happened at the Harms Commission can then go back to the amnesty that was then given to me and I said that I was against the approach of the Harms Commission and this was that there was a conscious plan by which, where several Ministers were involved, to point to the CCB and Mr Bizos is talking about a pattern and there was a pattern that can be seen right through the Inquest which should be public knowledge for every member of the public and this is that, for instance, the kwaMakutha case, a Sergeant is taken there and it is then said that he did not understand what he did there and then the higher hierarchy gets away with it.  With the CCB it is said that CCB did not know what they did and then the higher hierarchy gets away with it and in this way one can mention many incidents where people were brought to light and the golden line was broken by the politicians on the one side and the people who did the work on ground level on the other side and this is exactly what happened at the Harms Commission.  It happened with the Webster Commission and we must say very clearly that in spite of the Judgements and in spite of the independence of the Judiciary, it was an orchestrated attempt to blame the CCB for everything that happened and this can be seen several times in statements that were given in over the years.