PUMELELE CIVILIAN HERMANS
We realised that we were under difficult conditions, we have to refer the matter to the upper level, that was the sub-region.  That was not the end of our efforts, I think Mr Guleni and Mr Ntekiso who was the then Chairperson of the ANC, at Port St Johns, at the time and we also reported the matter to the Umtata region of Umtata, where comrade Ndahonde was a Chairperson, and Fizula Bengu was a Secretary.
	We requested them to refer the matter to the Department of Umkhonto we Sizwe in the offices of the ANC.  I am sure that they did so.  They reported what I just told you about Costello.
	What I am trying to indicate here is that the comrades from Flagstaff, Lungile Mazwi, Maxhayi and Nyalukana is what made them to think about Port St Johns when Chris Hani died.  That is exactly what made them to think about retaliation after the death of Chris Hani.