MR KRUSE
Yes, and to produce that Judge.  What I am trying to get at, I know and it is common knowledge in the police, what reputation Jeffery Benzien has.  He is an expert at torture, it is common knowledge that he is an expert at torture, and that is the reputation I want to get from him.
	We are not talking about effective interrogation, I know what interrogation is about and investigation.  He is an expert at torture.  He never investigates any case.  He gets information through force.
	And I want to know how he managed to develop that relation, but I don't think you can, he mentions four, five people here, I don't think you build a reputation by putting a wet bag over four, five people, because in the police it is a general thing, wet bagging, it is not a new thing, so you would not develop a National reputation if you did it to four, five people.  I want to know where does the reputation come from?
	Maybe I can assist him if he doesn't know?  But I would like you to answer the question.