JUDGE DE JAGER
I think that's when I sort of pointed out a confusion because I then asked him
"When did he tell you this?"
... because he said he last saw him at that stage and then he told him that he was on his way to the market and they called him certain words.  So that must have been, when he saw him, after he had been stabbed.  And I think there was -
"I last saw him between seven thirty and eight"
... was - the only sense I could make out of it, was at the time when he was transported to the hospital or when he found him at the scene.