FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson, I've only got limited knowledge concerning that, except that at a certain stage Vlakplaas members told me that they handed over weapons to the Zulus at the hostels, to commit those crimes.  At a certain stage I was at the Three Sister Restaurant in Hillbrow with Chappies Kloppers, who then testified at a later stage against De Kock and Willie Nortje, and then Chappies Kloppers told me that they had to go and deliver a certain amount of weapons, I think it was in Tokoza, and I had to accompany them, but I was then busy with something else.  It was not that I was scared to accompany them, I did these things every day, but I had something else going, so I could not accompany them.  It was the same with the Boipatong massacre, a days few before that they also told me that they were handed over a large amount of weapons by Vlakplaas members and that will be used where the Zulus or the ANC will attack people, and I assumed it was for the Boipatong massacre, although I cannot prove this.  But it was only a few days before the event.