ADV LOURENS
Well, having, if the quotation is what they refer to as the Tambo text, which I presume from the article, if it was well distributed, it must be although it is not referred to in those terms.  I would submit that it is a reasonable, there is a reasonable basis for such a belief.  If people in this position must, their, obviously their primary intention was to obtain firearms, but in the absence of firearms I would say that you would take something to convert into firearms and I think it would be unrealistic to expect that once a robbery for firearms has been perpetrated and a house has been broken into and there is money or items of value that could be used in this regard to purchase firearms, it is an indirect way of achieving the same goal, would be my submission and I would submit that it is not a far-fetched or belief that has got no basis in reality and their evidence is that that it what it was used for.  Even to the extent of people unemployed, I am specifically thinking of the money now, people who are unemployed, who are involved in a struggle, this is what actually takes up their time, they need money to live and there it was, but if the Committee accepts that their primary motive was, in fact, not to steal for personal gain in the sense of we have now got a video recorder and my girlfriend is wearing lovely jewellery, which, that evidence, there is no such evidence before this Committee, then I would say that it is a reasonable assumption to make.