ADV MOTATA
If I may just interpose here, Mr Mpshe, like you say in your argument, for instance, that we know about the structures that are there, and we have never come across a structure called street defence units, and I want you to help me out here, that is it also not a know fact that Inkatha was one of those, in your words, liberation movements which gave communities throughout the country great problems, and people were already gearing themselves that at any given time they should be defended against them, and now we look at the applicant and say again, he says, "We couldn't do it effectively, but with the obtaining of arms, we felt we would go on the offensive", like the chairman says, "so that we could defend ourselves".   Wouldn't we say that we should also bear in mind, or you say we should exclude it that it wouldn't, because you are arguing that there is no direct evidence that says, for instance, in Diepkloof so many houses were attacked, and say because of that then we should exclude what he's saying that probably the enemy was Inkatha at the end of the day?