MR VISSER
Mr Chairperson, we agree with you.  The - Please allow me say that it is startling that after two years down the line when everybody knew in the TRC of these applications, that we should be faced with this 90% through our, or 80% through our applications.  It is just really unacceptable, but Mr Chairman, as usual we will not complain, we will fall in, because clearly we want to know what the truth is and we agree with you, but can my learned friend just tell us everything that Holmes told him?  We now know of two things.  Is there more, may we ask, Mr Chairman?   And what's - surely my learned friend must have asked him, "But why do you say this, what is this based on?  Is there somebody that can tell us?"  I mean surely there must be more information?