MR JACK DEMONSTRATES
I am coming to that.  And during that time I remember of no occasion where Nieuwoudt will not, either directly or indirectly, get involved in assaulting me, whenever I was arrested. It might not have been, it would never have been as harsh as it became as the years were going up, it became more harder, more stronger and so on, but from the beginning it wasn't that - I must confess that. It wasn't that heavy. Because anyway, in those days we believed that Nieuwoudt could do, they could do whatever they like with us, until the dreaded, hated Black Sash ladies came to influence us, that our human rights were being trembled.