KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE
Yes, I am referring to him.  The first meeting, he was present, Mr Luthuli that is, where we were discussing this matter that they should stop this because this will bring some enmity between us and amongst the residents of the area.
	The second meeting and the third meeting, the third one unfortunately I was not in attendance, but my brother was there.  But the second one I was present.    We were discussing these matters of evil matters that they were conducting in the area.
	We felt this was getting out of hand, but they did not take notice of that.  When we were discussing in these meetings, we will have elderly folks coming to attend, not them.  They were not disciplined children, these ones, you could not tell them what to do.
	They would render the area ungovernable.