ESTHER MTEMBU
I would like to thank you. I don't have a clear picture as to what happened.  However, I will say that on Monday I was sewing clothes for a wedding.  The customers needed the clothes. Joseph came to the main house with 25 litre of paint.  We were extending our house.  Joseph came with this 25 litre of paint and he said to me mom, I am going to paint your house today and you will have to move into your house. I told him I am still busy sewing the wedding dress. I said to him I will leave you here, I will have to go to town.
 I left for town, it was early in the morning.  Later he came back and I found that the other people were working were around, but Joseph wasn't there.  Joseph had a car in Botswana. Some people had hired it but they never brought the car back.  He knows where the car is.  Joseph said they can't drive to Johannesburg and he said I will go there and bring the car back.  He said he will be coming the next day.  That was on Tuesday or Wednesday, some time round about there.  He sent me a telegraph to say mamma, excuse me, I am ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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painting, I will come back on Saturday.  But Joseph never came.  Joseph never came.  Until on a Wednesday or on a Thursday, Malaza, Lindi's mother sent three people to my place to say they want to see me now, now, now, I must come to her place. I said I am so busy, but what does she want me for.  These girls say no, they don't know, but she says please, come now.  Okay, I left my work.  They came by car. I jumped into the car. We drove to her place.  When I got to her place I find there was a big crying, wild crying, they were crying the people, drinking water, tablets, others kneeling down, others on the bed. It was just all that mixed-up.  Now I clap my hands and said oh, oh, oh, what is all this noise, what is all this crying, so wild, what is wrong, what is wrong, really, you don't have to cry so wildly. I clap my hands over and over until at long last the cry was coming ... After the crying died down they said to me at Phahle place's, that all the children in Botswana are dead. Now I just said but it is too much, stop crying.  And now when they said Joseph, Joseph is also dead.  Oh ... I couldn't cry, but I said look now, we don't have to cry, Botswana is not here, we have got to go for passports. I haven't got a passport but the rest of the people who were there said their passports have been taken to be stamped for Botswana.  
 The boys who were driving Joseph's car at home came too and I said to them okay, we are not going to stay here, we are going to Faraday for the passport.  We drove to (indistinct). We didn't go to the queue, we went straight to the counter and told them our story.  Those whites said okay, we shall do the same, go and take the photo, go and take your photos and you come back with them.  They really
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made us a quick service.  They stamped everything and said now you are all right, you can go at any time.  Okay.  
 Our driver, when everything was all right now, when we are going home, one of these chaps say mamma, you know, we can't go straight home, we have got to go to the legal advisers, people who are in the know, and find out how we are going to get to Botswana, is it safe or what.  So we drove to a certain lawyer, and I don't know that lawyer, but these chaps know him.  So he told us that no, if you people have the money you can rather take a plane, fly over, bring your deceased by aeroplane. Then I said no, I don't want to go any crooked ways, I want to go straight, straight, I can't take a plane, I can't afford, but I want to get to Botswana.  So they said okay, from now on, that lawyer says okay, now you can go to John Vorster, because you are a relative, you can get to Pretoria.  We drove straight past our place, straight to Pretoria. When we got to Pretoria, we told those police that we were on such a mission, my son has died and I would like to go and pick him up, if there is nothing behind that.  This man who was in charge of us, he says wait, I am going to call our senior, we are going to check on the list that if your son is that side, did he go clear, he is going to check on the lists to all the people who are on their list, who are clear or who ran away, whatever.  Okay.  So okay, wait for us, we will call you there. We waited outside there, until this chap called us back and said now you can come in, here is the man who is checking. He came and told us no, I have gone through all the books, Joseph's name is not there, he is not there.  So it means that Joseph is clear. If you want to go and fetch your child you can do so. You can do whatever you want, you 
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can even bury him that side or you can bring him wherever you want.
 Okay. I then asked this man okay, we want to (... (speaker's mike is off). 
 ... received a letter that were from you, the police and you have cleared us that we can fetch the body.  He said no, you can go there, there is no trouble, we are well-known throughout South Africa. I said no, man, that is always a lot of hindrance in the streets here, give us a written paper. He refused and he said go, there won't be any trouble.
 Really, from there we went to the undertakers. We asked them couldn't they go and fetch the body of Joseph.  The undertaker said it is too expensive, it will cost you lots of money.  Otherwise if you had a Kombi we can give you a coffin, you drive to Botswana with our coffin and then you collect and bring him here to us. Okay.
 Okay.  We went home.  The friends of Joseph who had parked already at home, they said mamma, don't worry, we are going to help you with the Kombi, we are going to the garage and they got a brand-new Kombi.  We got the Kombi, we got ready and we were to be on our way.  We are on our way now to Botswana.  These boys, one of the drivers know exactly where Botswana is. Now we are four, two ladies and two gents.  We drove to Botswana.  At the border there were a lot of complications, that one of the drivers could not go through, he had to remain behind and he said he is all right. They told him you can get your entrance at Zeerust, you can stay here, tomorrow you wake up you go to Zeerust, they will fix-up your papers.  
 Now we got to Botswana. We went to the police station.
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 We wanted to sleep at th police station because it was late now.  So there we told them our story and we told them we came by Kombi. They said do you know any people here?  No, me, I didn't know anybody, because I have never been at Linda's place, I have never been at George's place.  
 So we told them we don't know anybody but we took a Kombi, we will sleep here at the police station in the Kombi.  They said here in Botswana the police station closes very early, at seven o'clock and everybody knocks off.  Nobody stays here.  So the lady who accompanied me said she knows a family at Botswana by the name of Haborere.  They checked on their lists and they got the businessman. They said no, we know this chap. Then she says I think we can sleep there. 
 We went to this man's place and he received us.  We slept there. The next morning we went up to the police station. I don't know all the other things now.  We went to the mortuary and it was stinking, it was smelling. This man says I doubt because the mortuary is so small, if you people are not afraid to go in, but you will see things are wrong, there is nothing that has been arranged, the bodies lie open, (indistinct) business and all that. 
 Now from the smell of that I got so frightened and I said I am no man, I have nobody who is going to escort me, if I want to see.  But the thing with me was I was a bit doubtful, is Joseph really dead, could Joseph just go out without saying good-bye to me, and then he goes and meets his death there? Okay we sat there.
 Seven days or six days we were in Botswana. Every day they pick us up to go to the church, the Anglican church.  A lot of people gathered there for prayers and what else I
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don't know. I was just, my head was just ... Because Joseph at home is everything. He is our father, he manages the whole family, their children. With me Joseph is my proud, he is like everything. He built a home for us. It was small, he extended it, he jumps about, he does everything. He has got cars. He says mother, I don't want you to work hard, you must always knock off when I am doing sewing. He says knock off and get yourself dressed, I will take you out. Now I was just thinking now at home, what will my home be. I stayed seven days, I was just wondering, is it true, Joseph is dead? Okay.
 Then we went to George's place.  Now we got there. The house was bombarded, showing us where Linda and George were killed and now where Joseph was in the wardrobe, they bombarded that wardrobe. Everything in the wardrobe was burned to pieces, pieces, pieces.  Fortunately for me I didn't see during - the Johannesburg people saw the accident what happened in Botswana. I wasn't at the radio, but I heard the next morning, all the people coming, coming to say mamma, did you see what happened. I said I didn't see anything.  They said oh, thanks, you are very lucky; you are very lucky that you didn't see the terrible things happening to those people. They knew Joseph,  they even knew his shoe in Botswana over the radio.  But thanks God, I didn't see Joseph.
 Okay. We stayed there, going to the service every afternoon until the last day when the government of Botswana called all the people, that's all the people who were killed there are going to be buried.  Wednesday, in the morning, when we got to the scene, there were big white sheets, with the names of the people who had been killed. I don't know 
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whether there were seven that were going to be buried that day, but their names were all there. I was reading all these names, I don't know them.  I don't know them, I was looking for Joseph. I thought if Joseph's name is not there, but right down at the bottom there, there I saw Joseph Malaza.  Then I believed my son is really amongst this lot that is killed.  I pleaded, I wanted to take Joseph back to Soweto.   Now these people in Botswana were delaying so much. They kept on saying no, we are getting calls that Joseph must be buried here.  I said no, Joseph is not going to be buried here, we are taking Joseph home.  The days were going, I cried at the office and they all cried there. I cried. They said they telexed Pretoria and they are waiting for an answer, we can't take Joseph back. 
 The seventh day I got mad.  I got mad.  I said boetie, time is too long now.  At home they don't know what is happening.  Till at last they filled in the death forms and embalmed Joseph, whatever they did with him. They were saying you can't go through unless you bring four papers with you.  These ministers that did all these things, I was just muddled up.  But at long last when I come with the papers, and I said now we are on our way. 
 I didn't see Joseph all the time. Sorry, Joseph had his black coffin we came with and there was a coffin made of iron, sealed. It was soldered with copper. Ja, with that, copper.  When we got to the border gates the people wanted to open that.  We said, we haven't seen what is inside.  They wanted to make sure is it the body.  We said yes, here are the papers, we don't know either.  
 They struggled to open the coffin at the border, trying to open the coffin. They couldn't, until they let us pass. 
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This is Joseph's story.  We buried Joseoph.
 I think Linda, George and the rest of the people who died, who did go to Botswana, their side and all those who died were buried that end, but now I was leaving with my son, coming back to Johannesburg.  I came here to Johannesburg, but in Botswana they gave me a letter and an assurance that with you mamma, the government will give you a compensation and they have got to give you every month an amount of about R60,00 per month.  When you leave here, when you are through you must go to Kottle House and ask for Tutu.  After that I got all these things finished with the funeral. The Dutch people came before the funeral. They said you are not going to bury, we are going to search your whole house, there are some documents that we are looking for. I said no, you can do whatever you want, but Joseph is not having them. Then there were Joseph's friends.  They said why, you are Joseph's friends, we are taking you with to Pretoria.  So we went, me and that chap went to Pretoria. They questioned him and they locked him up, but I said to these people, please, this is not my child, I wanted to give them the assurance that really you will bring him back.    Yes, later in the day they brought him back.  They said in my home and in his home they didn't get anything.  
 Okay. Joseph was buried.  Then I went to Kottle House, looking for Mr Tutu.  When I got there they said mamma, please stay out, they were photographing that Kottle House, the police, the Europeans, they said any time, any time here, this building may be bombed at any time, and you can't see Tutu, not at this very moment. Okay.  The other ladies advised me, because you are already from Botswana, Tutu you can't see but go to this man.  They gave me a lawyer by the 
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name of Khakha here in town.  When we came there this man says ja, I have heard your story, and there is nothing that prevents the government not to compensate at all, but I cannot take this case.  If you are not afraid, can you go to Pretoria by yourself. I said you knowing the law, why?  He says no, no, no, I cannot take the case.  Okay, he took the case. I think it was on the 19th of - Joseph died in June - July, August we went to Pretoria. I am now asking for these people to give me the compensation, because here are our children who are left by Joseph's sister who died.  These children are pestering me, granny, we want to be educated.  Up till now, up till now I have children who are at school, they are every day asking granny, give us money, we are owing at school. I said ask for a scholarship.  Now these children are asking me every day.  They are fighting with me,  I must get money to educate them. Then I go to the Truth Commission and ask them that we want to be educated, you are old you have no money, we want money.
 Now when I went to Pretoria they said okay, you go to the Native Affairs. I went there and they only said bring the children's reports. I went to court with the children, they wrote their names and said now you have a maternal grandmother who is going to help ... (END OF TAPE ...)