CHAIRPERSON
You know I don't think you can take it very much further.  Obviously he wasn't present in Mkhize's house.  Somebody - he says somebody reports to Djamile that meetings are held in Mkhize's house and he is reporting what he has heard somebody else say so I don't know whether he's in a position to admit or deny whether people were in Mkhize's house or not.  If he were to say that I was there and I saw meetings were being held then it's another matter but I think I understand his evidence to mean that Djamile was receiving information from somebody, whether it's an elderly woman working at the house or not, he was receiving information from somebody that meetings were held there and that's how he is relating that to us.