MR WEBSTER
Absolutely.  They didn't care.  They didn't care.  Innocent people had been murdered by the Security Forces.  They controlled everything, they controlled even what happened to the dockets.  In this particular case they actually sat down quietly, even when the media wanted information, they didn't even give the media information, some cutting placed before you, but if we were to turn to page 714, I did read one of the pages in this regard, Mr Chairman, if we were to turn to page 714, Webster appearing for the second time on that page
"Who was the first to shoot?
		Colonel Botha shot first.
		Who was second to shoot?
		Lembede.
		Then who was the third one to shoot?
		Me.
		Who was the fourth one to shoot?
		No more ideas, Sir.
		As far as you recall, who was the fourth to shoot?
		It would have been Reaction Unit members, but personalities, no idea."
If you go on to page 715 Mr Chairman, or sorry, probably if we just go down the same page and then go over:
"You could see shooting coming out from Botha's vehicle, is that correct?
		I could hear the shooting, I couldn't see.
		You could hear shooting from Botha's vehicle?
		Correct, Sir.
		You could see Lembede firing?
		Yes.
		You could hear no other shooting except shooting from these vehicles of the Special Branch.
		That was 9 mm shooting.
		I could that.
		You could clearly hear that?
		That is correct, Sir.
		Do you know the sound of an AK?
		Yes, I do.
		You never heard the sound of an AK?
		No.
		I suppose you also know the sound of, what's the Russian effect to a hand gun, - Makarov?
		Makarov, yes.
		You didn't hear that either?  There was no shooting whatsoever coming from the suspects vehicle?
		Well ...
 		That you heard?
		No, but Col Botha's car was very close to that car."
Now I don't know what to make of that.