ROBERT JOHN MCBRIDE
It was, I think it was Oupa at that stage, Oupa and at an earlier stage, Chris also had explained using shrapnel in explosive devices.  But if I can remember correctly, it wasn't specifically at that stage for a car bomb. At the time of being given instructions specifically for June the 14th car bomb, Chris was not around.  I last saw Chris when I dropped off Gordon Webster, he was arrested the day before the May 19th raid into Botswana.  I didn't see him again until here at this hearing.