MR VAN DEN BERG
That is so.  That is so, but even during the height of the struggle in the 1980's when the townships were ablaze, there is no evidence of any sort.
	I want to submit that the applicants cannot lift themselves up by their own bootstraps, there was no person on behalf of the PAC or on behalf of the APLA who has testified on their behalf to say that these are bona fide members or supporters of the PAC.