KWANELE ARTHUR MFENE
I just want to go back a little bit.  I want to say this.  The said Brig Gqozo, it was very difficult to communicate with him directly.  There were officers, our senior officers, who were together with Commissioner Nqoya who used to do this - if they were actually against anything that was taking place in Ciskei, they would come and threaten us and tell us that we were going to lose our jobs and in that process they were doing whatever they liked in the police and they would do whatever pleases them, as I have already explained here as I was giving evidence.   It became clear that if he had called us, at least we will manage to voice out whatever and tell him that enough is enough, because it was after the incident where 27 people died in Ciskei and that Brig Gqozo was still there and we were even protecting him after such incident.  That caused us to try and sit and discuss with the officers, that is what caused the dissatisfaction among the officers, that is why the others laid charges against us and the others said that we pointed them with firearms, but that kind of an action I am saying I do not say it did not happen.  Yes, it might have happened though myself I did not do that but because of the action that I took by influencing the other policemen, I am here today to apply for amnesty.