MR MARTINI
Well that touches on the indicia for the political objective, because the Act doesn't say why did you do it?  It says
"take into account in deciding if it's a political objective, the motive, the context, the proportiona-lity"
But that I thought, is not a requirement, it's factors that the Committee must take into account in assessing if there was a political objective.  Well then I must go back now to political objective again.  I thought it is clear.  The political objective was clearly, Mr van Zyl repeated, protection of the sovereignty of the State, destruction of the enemy of the State.  The enemy of the State being the ANC and its affiliates.  But now we're touching back onto issues which are criteria which the Committee must consider, not requirements, as to whether the act was political.  
	Now it's my submission and it's dealt with in my Heads, the act was most definitely political.  He tells you: "I was acting on instructions.  I was a supporter of the National Party Government.  I wanted to protect the sovereignty of the State.  In South Africa, we have the evidence of Mr Webb, the TRC's Findings, there was a war and this was part of the strategy of the South African Government, to resist or counter the armed struggle that was being waged by the liberation movements, in the people's war within.  It was to counter and resist that struggle.  The CCB would appear to have been an additional creature created by the government of the day to resist the armed struggle that was taking place.  We were in a State of Emergency where certain deeds were committed.  
	But to answer your question, Mr Lax, that would go to whether it's a political objective.  But the relevant facts, it's my submission, these hearings are peculiar because fortunately I would say, there was no - that's Chairperson, the indicia also say look at the gravity of the act.  There was no serious tragic result.  Now had there been it would have been imperative, it would be relevant to tell Mrs Omar who killed your husband.  Or, first leg, your husband was killed by the CCB Region 6.  The victim wants the truth, they want to know what happened.  And Mrs Omar, Mr X killed your husband.  
	But I'm going to move back now to the discrepancy with Barnard.  Chairperson, I find it astounding that the Respondents would seek to suggest to this Committee that the only credible witness at these hearings was Mr Ferdi Barnard.  Let's analyse Mr Ferdi Barnard.  Self-confessed liar for 24 years.  Triple convicted ...(intervention)