CHAIRPERSON
But, you know, let's just suppose.  There's no firearms at all in the ANC side.  You've got a large group, let's just go on the figures, 400 that was what was said in the Court, based on one of the ANC members own estimations, Mr Dieko I think, 400.  And a smaller group, let's say 100 of the IFP, facing each other.  The ANC people are armed, no firearms but they've got sticks and spear and machetes and stuff.  IFP have got firearms.  Now, the one groups advancing to the other, or they're both advancing towards each other.  One would in any circumstance, expect that the people with the firearms would shoot.  Wouldn't you?  You know, so, it's not necessarily the gunshots that triggered off the IFP shooting, the gunshots that they say they heard, that triggered it off.  I mean they would have shot in any event.  Otherwise why have a gun?  Why wait until it's hand to hand combat, before you shoot?  You're shooting because you've got your gun, not because you hear another gunshot, because you've got two armies facing each other.