UNKNOWN
we took a turn-off to the left and then it becomes a gravel 
road. Here I want to make a correction.  Where it says the 
askari was tied up, that's wrong.  I will point that out 
now.	When we stopped on the dirt road and I got out of the 
car and I went to the vehicle I then saw that the askari was 
tied up. I then inferred that they had tied him up whilst we 
were driving.  I mean his hands were cuffed or something.
	At that stage I wasn't quite certain of the purpose of 
this operation, what was to happen to him, but my conclusion 
was that the askari had been detained at the police station 
in De Deur and I believed that he would probably be killed 
because he was an ANC or PAC freedom fighter who had been 
caught by the security police.  He then became an askari and 
that he had gone back to the ANC and given information to
them. I then suspected that he probably would be killed, 
because otherwise we would have gone back to Vlakplaas with 
him, and De Kock would then have spoken to him there.  
	I can't remember exactly why we stopped at Boschkop.  
As far as I can remember now, I think De Kock wanted to make 
sure that he was tied up.  I say here, and he also 
handcuffed him.  I don't think he physically cuffed him, I 
think he just checked to see that the cuffs were secure.  
	We then drove off to Penge Mine, the mine situated on 
the other side of Burgersfort, in the Eastern Transvaal and 
it was the first time that I ever went there.  We arrived at 
the mine. It was - there was a small village community and 
then outside the place there were several mines and this 
Penge Mine was one of these mines.  We arrived there that 
night at the mine and then met Warrant Officer Snor 
Vermeulen and Warrant Officer Lionel Snyman.  They are also 
witnesses for the Attorney General.
CAPE TOWN HEARING	AMNESTY/