MR PHOSA
Maybe I didn't make myself clear then to you.  For purposes of this discussion - don't think about yourself and any of your members but - any of these four and there only were four of you, let's just say a member of your team who was aware that there is a problem in the Eastern Cape coming from COSAS and the lives of Mthimkhulu and Madaka, who was equally aware that elimination was discussed as one of the solutions, then he's given Mthimkhulu who goes on denying.  If he thought to himself: "Perhaps before this man gets killed let me just rough him up", that would be an understandable attitude of a member of the police force in that situation, do you understand me?