MS DAMBUZA
Exactly, that is exactly my sentiment Mr Chairman, that he does not have any reason to be lying, and if he was lying in respect of his knowledge about the planned coup of the 15th January, it was such an insignificant - it was an event of less significance than the one of the 20th of November.  If he chose to lie, he would have tried to lie more about the one that resulted in loss of life and can be considered as more serious than the one of the 15th January.
	It is my submission Mr Chair, that he - that is Mazizi Ntisana, does not really say "I did not know anything about the first operation, Operation Sacrifice", he says "I knew that there were two stages, there was going to be the military part that was going to be carried out Col Duli and then I would come in".  And he does say exactly what he was then supposed to do in the part that he was supposed to play.  It is my submission that even the contention by my learned friend, Nodada, that even during the journey to Maclear/Tsolo he does not divulge what was discussed over the radios.  If there was anything of significance it is highly unlikely that it would have been discussed at this stage, for really - they could even be intercepted.  It is reasonable I submit ...(intervention)