UNKNOWN
Yes, well the same procedures did not necessarily apply.  But the point I'm making is that there was further information added to what Van Zyl got.  For instance the Khayelitsha burning which they were going to burn certain sections of Khayelitsha township, etcetera, to create unrest.  Now that didn't come from Van Zyl.  It didn't come from Basson, because he couldn't check out the information with Derrick at the time, but someone added that information and it could only have been, as far as my applicants are concerned, it could only have been Verster or Webb.  And the instruction came from Webb.
	So point I'm making is not that that information was necessarily correct, but the point is that both Basson and Burger had all reason to believe that this operation has been approved, in terms of the workings of the CBB as prescribed.  They didn't have reason to believe that no-one checked out the information and that innocent individuals were going to be targeted.  That's the point I'm making.
	And then I go further to say as far as the ELC is concerned, one must take into consideration the evidence of Mr Alexander, and from it it is clear that there was information, at least, existing within the community.  There was conflict in that community between certain people, whether they were gangsters or not.  But it must be remembered that Burger and Basson were not footsoldiers at the scene in the Cape, so they couldn't check this out, but Mr Alexander makes it clear that they were all political activists, they were known to Hardien, etcetera, they Security Police were interested in them, they were having their meetings at different places to avoid the police, etcetera.  So at least, this is not a matter where you had totally incorrect information, where the people concerned were not politically minded at all.  Mr Alexander ...(intervention)