MR MULLIGAN
(Inaudible - mike not on) ...that is also why he took the initiative, right from the start, and when they stopped there, he said, "Right, two stay at the gate, three go inside, one man with a weapon outside".   So it wasn't that it was planned badly in a certain sense, but in another sense he did take the initiative, so that the thing would proceed and go ahead.
	But from the evidence that we have, it's just sad, it seems that Kenneth just lost it.   He first shot the other guy, he later, and I think hearsay can be accepted here, he said to the applicant, "I saw the other person panic and I panicked", and he shot him, and then he started shooting indiscriminately at the door.   It's a person in panic and I think it's indicative thereof that he wasn't properly trained.
	As far as Motepa is concerned, we see him stay relatively calm until they start fleeing, and he then tries to cock the weapon and a couple of shots go off, but we must also remember that they were under fire from the third policeman from the vehicle at that stage, so it was a bit of panic stations.
	But I don't think we can get away from it that the whole thing was politically - the objective was a political one.
	One of the committee members, rightly so, and my colleague also asked the question, "But how would the people know?"   Well obviously an event like that you don't advertise beforehand, but afterwards we know that Motepa had relatives there, he had contact with the people in Ledig, and obviously afterwards it would have gone through the grapevine or in a way it could have gone through there that they were hit by the ANC, by an ANC cadre and other people with him.
	So it's my humble submission that, as far as sub-section 3 is concerned, that the applicant complies with the Act and that (i) and (ii), where it says:-
"Out of personal malice or for personal gain",
that it doesn't really come into the picture.
	And nobody touched on it, one could maybe say, "Wasn't there a bit of personal malice from the side of Motepa?", but when they asked him, "Why Ledig?", he said, "No, the people there needs a morale boost".   Now whether he lied to them, or whether that was the truth, we don't know, but he says that he trusted Motepa, he was an MK cadre, he was somebody that he looked up to, and that's why he accepted that, and it made sense to him, one would expect.
	If one says that it was not a political objective, the only other objective one can think of is a criminal objective, and if your objective is, which I think we can accept, is to get hold of firearms, I believe there are softer targets to hit than a police station, and we've seen that in the past, criminals hit soft targets, and he specifically also said that Ledig was too far away for him, he said it's too far away, and he was basically, he had to be convinced by Motepa that, "Let's go there because it will do the struggle a lot of good because those people are suffering under the Mangope regime and they need a morale boost".
	There's nothing specific, I think that concludes what... (intervention).