MR MBANDAZAYO
Thank you, Mr Chairman.  Now, I do get your point on the question, that of the proportionality.  Mr Chairman, if you look, as I indicated, that one would interpret, as you put it, differently, the attack, it's subject to different interpretations.  One, it may happen that he interpreted that way, that you have to kill when you have to attack.
	And, Mr Chairman, it's my submission that in most of the cases is that if the proportionality has to be in these matters, it's ... (indistinct) of this nature, I always find it difficult, I always argue that proportionality should not be applied to the question of the foot soldiers who are not in the position, who are not decision-makers, who most of the time carry out orders.  I'm talking now in general, Mr Chairman.  I don't want to - I'm talking in general, Mr Chairman.  Because there are people who decide that in terms of our principles, these are the targets and when you identify targets you identify them in terms of these guidelines.  	And then those are within the principles and policies of our organisation, then you can attack.  Now, they have not decided on the guidelines, on the policies as to what is the target.  So, they carry out instructions that in terms of the guidelines and the policies we have, this is the target I have to attack it.  And my view is that, which of course is not said by everybody, that the proportionality should be applied to the people who are giving orders, that those things should be carried out.  
	And if now we look and we accept that his action within the course and scope of his political objectives, that is to defend his members, and we accept his evidence that members of the PAC were being killed, then I would submit that, Mr Chairman, were killed and their houses were burnt, some of them were killed, that in this instance the actions of the applicant were not out of proportion as to what was happening at the time.   And that I'm basing on the assumption that the Committee accepts that there was a conflict and people were being killed, the members of the PAC.