TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Sir, at Vlakplaas - what happens at Vlakplaas is something that you cannot explain to people outside, how you could get out, and what you would believe and not believe inside, because you do not choose whether you should do something, or believe or not believe things.  I agree that I believed it.  I wasn't forced to believe it, but I had -I could not dispute it either in any way.