MR BOOYENS
But Mr Coetzee never mind what Sam Maritz put to you and never mind what was said at the Harms Commission.  We know what the true facts are now.  We know that Sizwe Kondile was detained here and we know that he was released here.  So that release, ostensible release on the 10th of - that whole elaborate scheme would be just to go and collect a motor car in Bloemfontein.  Is that what you are really suggesting that's what Nick van Rensburg did?