GARY JOHN KRUSER
Let me just explain that, Mr Chairman.  I was in charge of security of all our leaders in our buildings in the country.  One of the documents I wrote to the National Directorate around securing our leaders and other things was we faced a serious concern from right wing and third force elements in the process of doing that and I made a motivation which was rejected by the vast majority of regions in which I was in charge of all the regions which was eventually approved by our director, Mr Joey Ntlhantlha and the essence of my suggestion was that we involve police or state structures in all our security operations.  The reason why I motivated that was I thought that elements of security forces would not attack their own members and that was the basis why I made a motivation to my leadership and throughout the process they set up liaison structures and we thought, although we knew the liaison structures were all security branch structures, we had to use those structures to the best of our ability as an organisation which didn't have the resources of which the state has and I think it worked very effectively for us.  Whenever I needed a sweep - we never had dogs to sweep our bombs, I could phone Captain Wilkins and he would come and bring his dogs in there.  If a bomb went off he would have taken that responsibility, I didn't think he would subject himself to those sort of things.  If President Mandela went to any area we had two security branch policemen in the cars in the convoy, we didn't think they would attack their own members, so it was a strategy which worked very well for us and that is why in all the other events when we call them to assist us - they guarded our building at night previously when we thought there were attacks when we received information.  They had regular patrols there at Shell House, they came to sign our O.B. book on a regular basis every hourly patrols - those things were taking place - we didn't trust them completely - we used what we could from the state structures because we also knew they understood where this country was heading and who would be the future government of the day.
So it was trust but we qualified the type of trust which we gave to them.