MR LAX
Absolutely.  I'm not saying it's not a cause for concern in this witness, that I'm accepting without doubt, what I'm saying is it's not a sinister or a totally outrageous form of conduct that you would expect from him and therefore to put it to him on that basis, which is how I'm hearing you put it, you're saying this is so unreasonable to expect Verster to behave in that way, that he would be framing his own man.  I'm saying he's not framing him, it's equally - maybe we're talking at cross-purposes...