ADV DU PLESSIS
Yes, yes.  Warrant Officer van Vuuren, in the light of this, I can't remember the exact words, but it was put to you that you did what you did due to a lust for torture.  In other words, a desire to interrogate people or to torture people, you had a desire to torture people.  Can you say to the Committee, did you have a personal desire to torture people the whole time?