UNKNOWN
Mr Chairman, there's evidence about money, money that was received and for what purpose it may or my not have been used for and also it relates to Mr van Zyl's personal gain from his activities in the CCB, and the question in the Act as to the person's motive.  If we can get clear evidence about how much money he was making from his sideline while he was in the CCB, that might be useful just to get a sense of what the business' turnover was.