MR WEBSTER
I would say that at that stage and at that relevant time, the Security Branch were an absolute law unto themselves.  There was no other law above the Security Branch.  Believe me, Ma'am.  Ironically we know each other and they tell you that they were a law unto themselves.  I think there's only one person that was above the law and I say this with sincerity, that was God Himself and nobody else, no other human being.  The way the Security Branch conducted themselves, because when we look at this particular application and we view the background of people who had limpet mines stuffed into their mouths whilst they were alive and those limpet mines detonated, then you know the force that you are dealing with.  If you think of people who had the courage, I'll say the courage, of taking out pins from hand grenades and giving them to people, not caring where those hand grenades would ever be activated, a person just touches that pin and it explodes, they were a law unto themselves.  We know how they intercepted people, for instance in Piet Retief.  I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that the people in that incident also - was it Pongola or Piet Retief - were unarmed, some women were there, they were butchered.  We know of their escapades into the neighbouring states on information and my learned friend says hearsay doesn't apply.  It doesn't apply if you are acting for the applicants, but to us who are related to victims and who are related to victims and who were victims of their conduct, we know that hearsay is deadly.