AZHAR CACHALIA
What I am saying in addition sir, is that it is a non-disclosure that is fatal to the application because it is not envisaged in terms of the objectives or the Promotion of National Unit and Reconciliation, the Act itself, it is not anticipated that people will be given an opportunity ad infinitum and I am saying that in fact what they said is, we were there but we deny guilt, we were defending ourselves  from an attack by the ANC.  And let's assume for the purpose that the ANC were in fact attacking, then they're not admitting guilt for which they want an amnesty, they should in fact be therefore that particular basis should have been denied originally having not been denied originally in terms of Section 19, having come here, they are now saying that we want to put a third particular position to you, and I'm saying that that fatal commission by them should be construed as sufficient to deny them.  I just make that for whatever it is.
	Insofar as the probabilities are concerned, just very simply sketch and I don't intend to go into the details of the inconsistencies ...(intervention)