MR VAN DER BERG
Mr Chairperson, let me just answer the first question which was put to me.  If we look at page 27 of the bundle and about line 20 onwards, on 21 more specifically, he, that is his neighbour, he informed me about the presence of the armed AWB members at the Bophuthatswana Air Force Base.  He said they had virtually taken over from the regular Bophuthatswana Army.  He informed me that the mere presence of the AWB was not acceptable to the black Bophuthatswana Defence Force members.
	The point is this, at this given point in time, this is Thursday night ten o'clock, he knew nothing.  He was informed, it is all hearsay and that is what I am trying to convey.  It was all hearsay.  It was information which he did not know about, which his neighbour gave to him, which was not acceptable to his neighbour and his neighbour said this is not acceptable to the black Bophuthatswana Defence Force members.
	Never pertinently did he express his opinion, it is all hearsay and he reacted to that.  So then again, what I asked him yesterday, this is on page 30, round about line 15, about the 40 people who were killed or shot.  With respect, that evidence was not within his field of knowledge when he shot the AWB people.