MR ZANTSI
Thank you very much.  Your Grace I would like to state categorically that at the time this event happened I was not involved in Ciskeian affairs.  I was a schoolmaster at Hill Town.  I gave my staff permission, they asked for permission quite early and I gave them permission, I said since I have got to go via Fort Beaufort I will follow.
 So unfortunately the Indian, Mr Ragavan, whose transport I used to commute from Fort Beaufort to Hill Town was not available at the time so that I had to go home and not come anywhere into Bisho.  
 When I got home my wife told me that in the news at 1 o'clock there was this announcement that all was not well at Bisho, so that the first that I got to know of what was taking place was what I got from my wife when I got home on the 7th September and I do hope that - I only came onto the government in February 1993, 1st February.
 So that the goings on before, I was not aware of.  It is only when I came in and even then the matter was now history so that I cannot contribute materially about what took place.  But Mr Chairman, I do believe that the happenings of 7th September emanate from the event which culminated in the establishment of a Ciskei self-government.  
 In 1972 when Koornhoff and De Wet Nell dug the first soil here saying they are making self-government possible and it will interest the Commission to know that those of us who were  [indistinct]  then, stood up vehemently and opposed this.  We said we want to remain as part of South Africa and I really cursed the day that the Ciskeians decided and labelled some of us as traitors because we could not accept the concept of self-government.  And from then during the Sebe regime we were sidelined because we believed we were part of South Africa and this dividing of South Africa into states was not conducive for us so that, Mr Chairman, I was in no way connected with it but my views which are known even to the Supreme Court in Grahamstown when I contested the legality of the elections which were held to set up this homeland.  Mr Chairman sir, that is all I can say.