TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  I mean I can't go against it, I haven't been present, I haven't seen it, but it'll be very, very strange, because as I say the orders came from right from the top after the international outcry, and I would very much doubt if any policeman will then still try to pull rank and convert to such atrocities.  But I can't deny it because, as I say, I wasn't present.