MR VISSER
But, Mr Chairman, that is why we read to you Section 19(4), the distinction does not appear from that.  It is any person, Mr Chairman, who is either implicated or has an interest, with respect.  So, those are my, our submissions, Mr Chairman.  We are here, we are here to assist the Committee in, at the same time, primarily, we are here to protect the interests of our clients and we believe that the only proper way in which we can do it is to highlight to you the fact that, perhaps, some of the witnesses, perhaps this witness, is not telling the truth which is vital for you to understand and to appreciate in coming to a conclusion on the amnesty application.