MR VISSER
You see nobody has ever suggested, on the part of the applicants, that Mbulelo was not arrested in February or March 1988, they never said so, in fact they conceded that its possible, so we're not arguing about that, we're not saying that you're wrong that he was arrested in February or March.  What they are saying is that they took him, they abducted him in December.  You say he wasn't there in December.  I ask you why you say so, you say because you regularly visited and he wasn't there, you didn't find him, is that the picture?