AZHAR CACHALIA
I would readily concede that that's the probability.  What I am saying is that the relevance of those arms are not that important and if there were people, the suggestion is that we shot back in defence, when they shot we shot back.  Now, and the gun fire, the fire came from that end, and there was not a question of one shot only, there was a question of a number of shots, and what I am saying is that the improbability of that version, the Court found, and I'm saying that that's what we should find also, the improbability that there was gunfire from the ANC side on that particular day.  And I'm saying that, I had put it, I had put it to the witnesses, the applicant, one of the applicants' witnesses and they conceded that what, that was a correct approach by the Judge in the High Court.