BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE
For our part I think just for your benefit in case you want to re-argue those points again in your written argument.  I think we have summed them up for you.  One was the question of the origin of instructions.  We have less problems with Conrad and Derick Skosana on that, because both of them got instructions from Joe and that is not in dispute.  That point, that difficulty is only in relation to Joe, the origin of the instructions.  As I said that would require of you to read this, the record and then the second thing was, well, his presence, alleged presence at the scene, you will deal with that.  We have mentioned that to you and, sorry, I have just forgotten, Mr ...