MR SANDI
Thank you,  Mr Chairman.  There is an old saying, Mr Card? that says, dead men tell no tales.  I noticed that in your submission, you mentioned two names and that is, Mr Hattingh and Mr Sebe.  I understand both men have since deceased.  Is that correct?
MR CARD?: Mr Chairman, I didn't mention them, they were mentioned by the statements that I got and I actually said that unfortunately, they are dead, otherwise they could have come here to tell this Commission what the story was, cause they could have said I wasn't here.  Now I never... I haven't mentioned them.  They were mentioned by the  previous gentlemen.