MR MBAQA
Okay, on - on the morning of that day we prepared you know the memoranda's.  It was me, and the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League and I think two other officials who were there and we were preparing those memoranda's to hand over.  And we did that, that morning.
So while we were about to leave, then came Lawrence - Lawrence then - Lawrence was then the Commander of MK in the region.  He then came there in the office and he came to see me - to inquire about a agreement he had left with me.  I then told him no - it is here you can - you can he can have it.  He then say to me no, because you can see I have - don't have anywhere to put it, I have these tight pants.  Can you make me a favour and come with it to the township and then I will take it there and go and put it away.
So because I wanted to get this thing away from me it was his anyway and I was anxious to get it away from me because he had left it with me about three -  four weeks ago and I had been pestering him to come and take this thing of his.  So he then came back  [indistinct] to come and take it,  so I made him the favour and I took that thing and I of course placed it beside my bag and I left with the Chairperson of the ANC Youth League and another chap of the Kimberley Civic Association, they call him Vernon Patrick and another comrade of the civic also is Lionel Jacobs and Mafu Davids who was the publicity  secretary of the ANC Youth League during that time.
But then when Lawrence came and we had these discussions about this grenade of his, these other people of course they were not aware of what we were actually talking about.  So even when I put this grenade in my bag and I left with it in Lionel's car they did not know I had something like that.
So we then went out - we  drove with the car - with Lionel's car it was a white Skyline.  We then drove to - to the township to where the said march was supposed to commence, to start from.  But then unfortunately we were a little - we were a little bit too late so we instead found the march had moved from where it was supposed to start.
We met the march along the way - then we came there we stopped and then we joined the march at that point and Lawrence was also there by then.  So I then went up to him and he said no obviously you can't give me that thing here in public.  Could you just carry it when we come in town I'll take it and then I'll put it away by the office or in his car, that was what he said.  But then it made sense also to me that I could not give him that type of thing in public.
We then joined the march and this grenade was still in my bag and it did happen that when we reached the town somewhere in town here, he did come to me and said well bring me - bring me this thing - he took it [intervention]