CHAIRPERSON
But what about the submission made in this respect by Mr du Plessis?  They were members of Brixton, they were policemen in the Brixton Murder and Robbery Squad, things weren't going too well there for some of them, and then somebody comes along and says: "Look, what about a career switch, better deal, better salary, BMW motorcar, opportunity to start your own business, a far better deal package-wise"?  At that stage, at that time of the approach they don't know it's a hit squad or whatever that's moving in to assist the CCB, wouldn't most young men be tempted to join them and go and say: "Okay, well that's good, I've got a problem where I'm working, I've got hassles, I've got a much better deal, I'll go across"?  They don't know exactly what they're going into, that it's ... and then it only comes later once they've made the commitment?