MR BLACK
Thank you.  Mr Van den Berg, I am just covering certain aspects about the evidence, if I may make it clear, which, if necessary, Mr Van Zyl will testify to.  He also mentions that you told him at a stage that you sat on the koppie and that you kept observation there, and you could see what was happening, and you saw that a Casspir vehicle stopped in front of the bus or the Kombi, and that Matthews, the driver jumped out and ran away. He first ran in the wrong direction.  Then he turned around and then he ran in the correct direction.  Thereafter there was shooting at the Kombi.  Could you have said that, would you have said that to him or is he just hearing this because it was part of the whole story, that people were generally talking about?