RAYNER MARIA MORINGER
Yes, so everything was set up at the house.  I tried to phone Mr Mbotoli and I think twice I left a message because he was out of his office, or out of the house, and I think it must have been about seven o'clock in the evening, I managed to get hold of him.   I spoke to him on the phone and I said to him, I've got somebody here from Switzerland from a bank, and he might have information for him which he requested, if he wants to come and if that, I would pick him up and bring him to my house.  Mr Mbotoli at that stage did not know where my house was, other than the general area.  I picked up Mr Mbotoli, I also seeing that I was pretending that this is my house, I asked my then girlfriend, now wife, if she wouldn't mind just, I have got some business meeting going on, if she wouldn't mind just sort of serving drinks, etc and come along, which she agreed without knowing what was happening.  Then I went to pick up Mr Mbotoli in Oxford Road in Rosebank.  We drove to the house, we went to the bar at the house and we had drinks.  I think it was Coca Cola, I am not sure, but it definitely was non-alcoholic.  Then I stood up to get something from the kitchen, which was the sign for the people which were in the house, to come and take Mr Mbotoli.  For that reason we had received from the Transkei, from Colonel Mzwaiba, some chloroform and some injections which we were told, the anaesthetic type injections which will knock out Mr Mbotoli for about two hours at a time, and we had, if I am not mistaken, about five of them, which were meant to be injected to keep Mr Mbotoli sedated for the trip.  Mr Mbotoli was then, I don't know what the proper English word is, knocked out with a cotton full of chloroform, was disarmed and injected with the anaesthetics which we found out at the time, did not work properly.  He was taken into a car, there were two or three cars involved.  I don't know at this stage, there was a minimum of two cars, it might have been three cars, and the cars drove away towards - via Durban, towards Port St Johns, where Mr Mbotoli was taken to the Special Forces base on the top of Port St Johns.  I, myself, stayed behind, I was not involved on the trip.