CHAIRPERSON
Where a gang, for example, conducts a number of offences in an area there is general lawlessness in that area, what I am trying to ask you is whether you seriously call that a war?  In almost any area where there is general lawlessness and police are required - .... said that the objective of the police is a political objective.  It's not their function really to police the area and arrest the lawless element (...indistinct) what the political objective would be in such a situation.