CHAIRPERSON
Yes.  Then the second is, I don't know whether you can as a ballistics person but I mean with your knowledge of weaponry, would you say that the kind of armour or arms that were used, would you say those would have been appropriate for the kind of situation that was likely to have arisen of a crowd of people who had claimed that they were unarmed.  Would this be, would you have thought that it was appropriate, sensible?