CHAIRPERSON
Can I perhaps for - just a minute, just a minute.  Just for the sake of fairness.  Mr Lax had put to you a position or a view which I think he's made clear is a personal view and he's referring to a personal experience on this Committee, but perhaps just for the sake of objectivity, it's not the first time where a matter has been heard by this Committee relating to disarming or killing traffic officers.  So bear that in mind as well when you respond to the question.