MR KNOETZE
Then page 121 of the record, when Meiring gave evidence in front of this committee, I read it to you
"MEIRING:  At that point I was not certain who did he give them to.    One was given to Martin van der Schyff and the other one to Etienne Visser."
That is a reference, if you read the foregoing paragraphs, referring to the hand shotguns.   In other words, it's Meiring's evidence in front of this committee.