PIETER JAKOBUS GOUWS
Chairman, this is absolutely ghastly, it is brutal, this is what I am referring to.  May I add to this I spoke for instance, I would give you another example, to the widow of a person who had been killed near Vredefort, Grootkop, and I was at the funeral that specific day and that lady became totally hysterical and she grabbed my arm and she said when they kicked her and they were pulling her around by the hair, all the way around through the house, they said those specific people said, we will kill you all.  That is now her words I am relating, we have come to kill you  Boere.  And I became so emotional that day, I am supposed to be a person who is a little bit, who should be abstract looking at these things, I became so emotional that day that I felt like if I get hold of one of those people, because it is a defenceless person, it is a tiny little woman, to treat her, kick her, jump on her and those type of things, if I have found those people, I probably would have committed a crime myself.