HENDRIK JOHANNES PETRUS BOTHA
Chairperson, perhaps if I can explain.  If you look at the scope of Operation Vula, perhaps that is the problem that the totality of the operation has never really been exposed completely here.  We are familiar with an army bag, if you had to fill this with computer printouts that would be an idea of how comprehensive that information was.  That information emerged at the end of the investigation and what was found at that apartment upon two occasions that we entered the apartment was information which was not in such a large quantity but which had enough core value and you will see that I gave evidence that there were three phases in which this information was evaluated and the final phase was at the end of the day.  When we took the decision to inform Pretoria, it was as a result of the information that was embodied in those documents which were comprehensive enough to explain the NCW Network and if Mr Gordhan wants to deny that that existed I would say that that information was good enough for us to take the decision to consult Pretoria head office.