MS PATEL
Okay.  He says he, indeed, approached you the week prior to the incident and this had happened at a stage after which the group had been trained for at least five, six weeks and, as you say, they were anxious to get involved in something and they then put it to him that they wanted to get involved in an incident and the idea came up that they would attack the police van, that would pass this intersection, and that this idea had originally come from Chris Piet.