CHAIRPERSON
He hasn't said that.  He's basically said he was a victim of circumstance really.  He was a member of the IFP, a situation arose, he found himself in it, and that's it.  I mean he was quite clear I think, he answered that in response to both questions by Mr Cachalia and Mr Lax.  It doesn't really come out of matters arising really, but you can ask him.  You're going to get the same answer.