MR VISSER
Yes.  I am certainly not going to argue, flogging a dead horse as it were, that those were not commensurate with the purpose which they sought to achieve.  The question of the double blast bombing, that's another matter.  We would certainly submit when the time comes that that is not proportionate.
	But we say, the short answer Mr Chairman, is that we say that it necessitates a weighing-up of all the factors, given all the particular circumstances of the case, and given the circumstances of the Church Street bomb where anybody who had spent any time at all in reconnaissance would have known that on a Friday afternoon at around 4 o'clock, the street would have been full of civilians.  In those circumstances we say, could only be disproportionate to any object which you wished to have achieved.  I hope that's the answer to your first question.