MR MARTINI
But Chairperson, that can be argued.  This is not a fact.  The fact is no-one died, no-one was seriously injured and if Mr Bizos wants to argue that because we haven't come to the Commission - which I find an absurd argument, and stated that our intention was to kill and hence we shouldn't get amnesty, he must argue that.  But factually the Commission, the way I understand this Act, the Commission must have reference to relevant facts.  Now I would say a relevant fact is, "Did you or did you not blow up the Early Learning Centre?"  The General, the way I understand his evidence is, "I accept responsibility, I authorised it."   Mr van Zyl says "I pressed the button.  Do you want me to say I didn't press it?"  That's a relevant fact, but as to what may or may not have happened if someone had died, is totally irrelevant to these proceedings.  And this has been going on for a long, long time in these proceedings, we've allowed it with Mr van Zyl, it's now happening to Gen Webb and I'm sure it's going to happen with other witnesses.  I'm just trying to find a way to curtail the proceedings and, Chairperson, I do believe you have the power to limit this type of cross-examination.  Thank you, Chairperson.