MARY BURTON
Thank you, you can leave the stage now.
That brings us to the end of the cases that we are to hear today and in Beaufort West.  We have heard in these past two days  many accounts of pain, of ongoing suffering and indeed sometimes of much anger.  We've heard of the long term effects on people's lives and on those of their families.  Lives disrupted, families damaged, children's futures blighted and employment denied to people, sometimes on suspicion that they were politically involved.      
Yes, we live in a new and changed society and there are new rolls for people - we think of Mr Lolwana and his roll now as a Deputy Mayor, but we've seen that there are old wounds with barely healed scares.
We heard the stories of elderly men, who after more that 20 years still carry the mental and physical damage that they suffered.  And we have heard of ongoing conflict in some places where people somehow have managed to go on living together even after dreadful experiences.  But true reconciliation seems far out of reach. 
We've heard  much anger directed at members of the police and it must be very difficult for members of the SAPS, especially those who are working here to protect us in this hall, to listen to all of this.  It's difficult too for people who have suffered to see those who caused them suffering in all the time that we have heard from in these last two days, seeing those people who hurt them continue to occupy position of responsibility.
Now I think I'm right in saying that all of the stories we have heard stem from - except for the - the member from Victoria West, who told us about events there in the 60's - the other cases all come from the period of the State of Emergency. And it was very interesting to me to see that some people were detained on the 12th of June of 1986.  If I remember correctly that was the date of the proclamation of the National State of Emergency.  So one has the sense that there was a feeling that now with the provisions of the State of Emergency it is possible to act against people no longer abiding by the term of the rule of law.
And perhaps that's one of the lessons that we have to learn that we never again want a situation where people can act with impunity and have people in their power because that leads to dreadful deeds.  We have somehow to try and understand even then how and why things happened.  I think that the - the policemen who was found to have shot Mr Kratshi was 23 years old at the time.  What happened to young people to make them behave like that, how can we understand what was in the minds and hearts of people who were so fearful of the resistance ranged against us - against them, that they acted in that way.
I believe that part of our task as Truth and Reconciliation Commission is to help us all so to try and understand one another that we can get over the deep gulfs. ...END OF TAPE 4, SIDE B...