PIETER JOHANN VERSTER
Chairperson, that question I cannot answer that specifically because, for example, if I may analyse the question to you, I would see that this is a very important point here.  Let us take for example Mr David Fourie, he was my assistant, or he was the Deputy Manager, but it could also be that because Mr David Fourie had to stand in for me if I had to go away, then he would be at a meeting with Mr Staal Burger, that could happen.