MR HATTINGH
I accept that but just as a background, he makes mention of stabbing.  When he testifies he is confronted with this conflicting part of evidence between his oral evidence and his statement.  He then explains it but at the same time his legal representative makes mention of another statement in which the applicant tells us that there were stabbings and shootings and then thirdly he tells us that if there were stabbings then that was done by Obed and all I wanted him to do, the applicant, is to clarify the issue, tell us when they went there did Obed take a knife with him.  What was there plan, what did they plan to do - was this applicant going to shoot Obed, was there any discussions with regard ...[intervention]