MS PATEL
It has been the evidence of the applicants here today that they went in huge groups Honourable Chairperson but that was not the evidence that was tendered at the trial.  I am faced with the difficulty that none of the victims were prepared to come to the hearing so I'm not in a position to give you, to tender further evidence in terms of the number of people that were in fact part of the group.  It was, however, contended - not contended, it was in fact stated by one of applicants at the trial that there were in fact a lot less in number than they would have us believe.  In fact, one of the applicants I can't recall, it's one of the Bhayi applicants would in fact conceded initially that they were half the number that he said - that the other applicants said that there were at the time.