MR BLACK
Unfortunately, I'm not a - I don't have to take cognisance on it or judicially, but I certainly take cognisance in other ways, and if the applicant does make such submissions, I would submit that the general tenor of the evidence which may have been, which, or has been given by senior members of the security forces at the time, can be taken into account when it comes to giving any credence to the evidence of the applicant, because - so I would respectfully submit that in order to save time, I'd first like to know exactly who the victims are which Mr Hattingh represents ...(intervention).