MR DU PLESSIS
Mr Chairman in all fairness, one should also put the evidence of Mr Ngo, not that he knew about the meetings in the mornings and in the afternoons, but he testified that they went to Col Loots' office and his evidence was that he sometimes accompanied Ngo or Selahla for reports.  So one should in all fairness also put the fact that Mr Ngo had no knowledge whatsoever of the meetings in the mornings and in the afternoons.