MR CURRIN
Sorry.  Mr Chairman could I just clarify again and if my colleague would put the actual words that were used by the witnesses, by Moolman to this witness, a lot of the confusion wouldn't arise and there wouldn't be a misrepresentation.  In his evidence under cross examination by me, Moolman did not say the conversation did not take place.  I asked him the question about the conversation, his words were:  "I do not recall the conversation".  Moolman in this committee has never categorically said the conversation did not take place.  Against Moolman's evidence that he does not recall it, this witness is coming and saying and stating as a fact that Moolman spoke to him.