UNKNOWN
That's correct.	The askari was then cuffed to 
a pole and we drank further there.  Later that night De Kock 
gave an instruction that we should take the man with us to 
the mine dumps.  It is not on top of a mine dump, I would 
say it was sort of a hole that had been dug, excavated area. 
 When we got there a chair had already been placed there and 
an explosive had already been attached to the underside of 
the chair. The askari was then placed on the chair and tied 
to the chair. 
	On the way there I walked right at the back. Whilst I 
was walking at the back I saw how Floris, that is Leon 
Floris, gave De Kock a revolver.   I say here in my 
application it could have been a pistol, but afterwards I 
thought about it again and I am almost certain that it was a 
revolver, the .38 type.
	As I said the explosives had already been tied to the 
underside of a chair before we arrived there.  De Kock 
meanwhile had now received the weapon from Floris and he 
shot him twice or three times.  When I saw that he was about 
to shoot him I looked away, but he shot him three times. I 
therefore didn't see how the bullets hit the man directly.  
	Nobody told me, yes, he had gone over to the other 
side, but that is what my belief was, that the man had 
returned to the ANC and had given them information.
CAPE TOWN HEARING	AMNESTY/