MR MARTINI
Well with Minister Omar, he was told eliminate.  He could have either eliminated Mr Omar by planting a car bomb, have him stabbed, but later the plan was changed to poison, but the act, as I recall Mr van Zyl's evidence in the ELC, I'm not sure that Mr van Zyl, I might be mistaken in my recollection of this evidence, actually suggested:  "We blow up the hall", but be that as it may, insofar as proportionality might be relevant Chairperson, you heard my argument which I submit in these circumstances of these applications where nothing really serious occurred, tragic, fortunately.  Proportionality has no relevance, but insofar as the Committee might find it is relevant, bearing in mind that these are only criteria to be taken into account, in a war situation, one's got to judge it in a war situation that South Africa was in at the time and Rafolla's case lends some assistance to the Committee in how to apply these principles.  I submit that's the only authority we've really found on a legal authority of how to attempt to apply these principles.
	Chairperson getting back ...(intervention)