MR LAX
Oh yes, but far down the line, at a much later stage.  So what I'm trying to say is, it doesn't help Verster to be saying: "Well ultimately Webb had to see the budget or had to know that a firearm was obtained from X or Y or Z".  Webb's evidence to that effect was he didn't know anything, he just was consulted from time to time on these things, this was a minuscule part of his activities and in essence, Verster's evidence was that he was in control of the CCB himself, and everyone else's evidence was that Verster told them what to do, by and large he was the one who was the Managing Director, to use the right term, and Webb's approval was only really required in exceptional cases.  In other words, where the elimination of person was involved.  If it didn't entail elimination or other serious consequences, he didn't even need to be consulted.