NORMAN ARENDSE
For the same reason then Mr Chairman, with respect, white people wherever they were at the time, certainly in terms of the APLA policy were regarded as enemies.
	They were supporting the - they put the government in place and they supported that government.  They were also therefore seen by a logical extension as functionaries supporting the state.  Without them voting the government in who knows what would have happened.
	But in any case, the point that I'm making, those considerations, do you just kill white people and so on, those considerations didn't feature for the applicants because they were not part of the decision making process they were soldiers and they carried out their orders.
	Mr Chairman, then just on a few other matters.  I think I made the point that yes, there were negotiations on at the time.  If one must take this factor seriously, and with respect I say we can't, then the legislature would have made cutt-off point the time when we had the negotiations at CODESSA.  Then it would have been and I think maybe it was, I think earlier December 1993 but the Act was amended and it was extended to May 1994.  And that period covers the applicants more than adequately.  
	And in fact my learned friend made the point that even the PAC had by a majority decision decided to continue with the armed struggle, so it wasn't to be complete yet.
	The issue of proportionality like all the other factors that are mentioned in sub-paragraph 23(a) to (f) is not on it's own decisive.  And clearly if we look at each case in isolation then I think this Committee would have difficulty in giving amnesty to anybody.  
	I mean how on earth could Coetzee's murder of Xenge or Mitchell's mistake where he kills 11 people, how could that possibly be proportionate to the end which is being sought i.e. to get rid, in Mitchell's case, to get rid of ANC, UDF activists.  And in Coetzee's case, to get rid of one functionary, a person who is alleged to have been a ...[indistinct] for the ANC.
	It clearly must be seen in it's overall context, in the context of the struggle in this country.