MR VISSER
No, I am not saying this, but his name is now mentioned in regard to something else which is unrelated to the application for amnesty, Mr Chairman, and there is another person, Khanya, now.  I do not know what the evidence is going to be about them, but I do not appear for him, but just by way of, of demonstration, Mr Chairman, if you going to allow this evidence to go on, this is the problem we are going to run into and it remains irrelevant.