ABOOBAKER ISMAIL
Mr Chairperson, if I may.  I think when we consider amnesty applications, one needs to understand intent.  What was the intention of what anybody intended to do and what was the outcome?  Mr Chairperson, we, in the African National Congress that fought for the liberation of this country, would rather nobody at all had died.  We would rather that there wasn't any struggle to be fought, but when we engaged in the arms struggle, we accepted that there would be casualties.  In this case, the intention was to strike at Security Force personnel and for me, even if the figures were 40/50 Security Force personnel and the remainder civilian personnel, to me it is still sad, it is unfortunate.  Even if it was only 1 civilian person that died, it is sad and it is unfortunate.  It is regretted.  The African National Congress has said: "We never targeted civilians, but we accepted at some point in our struggle, that we had to act because the Security Force personnel were using the civilian population as a buffer"  and I want to state and I'll quote you from page 59 of that Hearing, Mr Maharaj again says
"In case there is any misunderstanding, the African National Congress unreservedly apologises to all civilians who lost their lives, whether in cross-fire or any other circumstances, as our aim has never been to attack civilians and whatever the intensity of the struggle where civilians have died, we believe that it is appropriate in our country today and in the interests of reconciliation and unity, that we should apologise and we do so, and that is done so unreservedly."