MR JANSEN
No, I accept that Mr Chairman, but please understand the following.  There has been a long ongoing debate before many of the other Committees and the original Committee as to what extent is evidence in other Committees admissible in a particular hearing and to what extent can reference be made to evidence in another hearing and how is that evidence introduced in a later hearing.
	My problem is the following Mr Chairman, and I take issue with you there, with respect as far as whether if he had taken orders or whether if there is no opposition to his allegation that he was under orders, there are Amnesty Committee judgements on record saying that people's allegations that they were acting under orders, were not corroborated by those people whom they said, gave them the orders.
	It is in fact crucial for a person in, especially of a lower rank, in the Security Forces or in any liberation movement or resistance movement, to establish at some or other forum, that they were acting under orders.