MR MARTINI
Sorry Mr Lax, that's not common cause.  Mr Bizos said there will be witnesses, not one, in a debate with Mr Wessels, that will testify there were nails.  So it's not common cause.  And we haven't heard any such witnesses, other than Mr Barnard.  So it's not common cause that there weren't nails, it's contended by the Respondents, they said evidence was going to be led ...(intervention)