MR KOOPEDI
Without really making a bit issue out of that, I would like to say that:  1)  because his evidence has not been tested: 2)  because of the evidence that has been given by the applicants here, and Mr Mahuma, and perhaps because of my perusal of the document I have handed in, I believe that if one of the applicants, Mr van Rooyen was already arrested, he would then not be a member as it appears here, and therefore I am still trying to dwell on this point that I believe that this document was drawn up somewhere between the 7th of April and September.  And if that is the case, it is clear from this document that at this stage there was still that Interim Structure.  But I would not like to dwell much on that.
	What I would want to say, like I said, is that his evidence be treated with extra caution, hence I was not suggesting it be rejected or accepted.  What is noteworthy of his affidavit is that he does not go on and say the applicants were members of a break-a-away group.  He is a person who has been in Kutsaong at all times and most certainly he would know if they belonged to a break-a-away group, but all he says here is that SL van Rooyen was a member of the Kutsaong ANC Youth League at that time.  Evidence is that before they were arrested, they Youth League was not launched, it was only launched after their arrest.