MR KNOETZE
Now the word in Afrikaans "uithaal", paragraph 1.C.1.C, means that Kwani had to be removed from his sphere of influence, it was not meant to mean that he should be killed.  Now that is a reference to his own notes.  It's a reference to what he wrote in this paragraph in his own handwriting.  It's an annexure to this document.  He continues in paragraph 5.2
"The word "uithaal" in paragraph 1.C.1.C of the report means that Kwani Sebe has to be removed from his sphere of influence.  It was not intended to mean that he had to be killed."
Paragraph 5.3:
"The words "permanently removed" in paragraph 1.C.1.D means that he never had to become involved in Xhosa politics again, he had to be totally discredited.  It never meant that he had to be killed."
Paragraph 5.4:
"The words "Lennox had to be taken out", on page 4 of the report, also meant that he had to be taken out of the political sphere."
Paragraph 5.5:
"The words "Namba Sebe has to be removed from the scene", on page 4, also meant that he had to disappear from the political scene, the Xhosa scene."
	The words "the members on which Lennox places his support, on page 4, that that should also mean that he should be taken out of the political sphere by for example, being discredited.  It did not mean that these specific members had to be killed.  
	That is also what is meant by the word "taken out" in that paragraph.
	"The words "indien nie vir altyd opgesluit nie, moet hulle verdwyn", paragraph 1.F.4, page 5, should mean that Kwani Sebe and his second in command should disappear out of the Ciskei.  It was not intended that they should be killed."
Paragraph 6:
In conclusion, I confirm that during the meeting at Mesikaba no decision was taken that any person had to be killed.  And in this regard it must be mentioned that I then read the affidavit of van der Merwe and his view of what had happened at the meeting, that I confirm that."
General, the statement by Isak Ferdinand van der Merwe in Exhibit B, he refers on page 4, paragraph 7, to the meetings.  Can you just turn to that page?  He starts explaining it and then a lengthy exposition until he gets to paragraph 12, his page 6.  Then he says:
"In my presence there weren't any plans made to kill any person in any way.  I would not have not become involved in such an offence in order to kill someone.  There was a request made to me during the meeting to monitor the political situation in the Ciskei, to monitor and measure the political campaign and I did that by means of media reports and informants."
Now you hear what these people say, is this also how you can recollect it?