PIETER JOHANN VERSTER
That was beforehand it was described, what I'm saying to you that if it was written in the presentation, in the financial presentation which was a separate presentation from the operational presentation which says that this is the operation, we agree with it and then I would say that on the financial side show me the budget.  If it was written there that there is R30 000 and R18 000 would then go to the agent, R7 000 would go for that project and that R7 000 of it R2 000 would be for a plane ticket and the technique would have been that firstly the Regional Manager would verify it.  Physically, even internationally, we would phone the hotel and ask how much does it cost to stay at the hotel and they'd say R300 and in this way it would be worked out in that way and in this way it was approved.  It was approved in this way then, the Auditor General's criticism of previous ten years can be found in a document that they accepted specifically because there existed masses of structures to try and control the expenditure afterwards and then if it was correct in the presentation before me then it would be written off.