FERDINAND BARNARD
Chairperson, I'm speaking under correction but if I recall correctly, especially with regard to Mr Verster, it was as such that I was not permitted to be present while he gave evidence.  I was under the impression that Mr Verster was in disguise and if he wasn't in disguise, they managed to smuggle him in and out of the court in some or other way.  I was not allowed to see him and I think that the court was also evacuated during his evidence.