MR LAX
Just on the issue of proportionality, I'm not sure I understand you correctly.  You're saying that - this is what I thought you were saying or arguing, that because the end result was not particularly drastic, proportionality doesn't come into it?  Isn't the issue of proportionality relative to the intended result, whether it happens or not?  That's what we're dealing with here, is a conspiracy.  And so that when you're dealing with conspiracy the fact that nothing resulted is irrelevant, what is relevant in that context is, was the intended result proportional to object to be received? - intended.