CHAIRPERSON
Yes with regard to the unsworn statements given by victims, not only in this matter in any hearing, as I've said we consider that to be one of the rights of the victim or indeed an implicated person if such a person would desire to put in an unsworn statement.  However, such statements do not carry evidentiary value for the simple reason that they are unsworn and the maker of the statement is not subjected to cross-examination or any other form of testing and that is in accordance with the general principles of the law of evidence and certainly it's no exception in these proceedings and also it must be made abundantly clear that the Commission cannot tell any victim or implicated person what to say as pointed out in Section 11 the Act provides that a victim can come forward and express his or her views.  Those views obviously will not be agreed with by everybody who hears them and maybe controversial and we also know that sometimes there's a lot of anger and there might be a controversy in the views expressed but however it must be made clear as well that when such statements are made it is expected that the statements be confined to matters relevant to the subject matter or the incidents of the hearing and also that the statements made in such a fashion also taking into the account the rights of others and are within the confines of the law.  We as a Committee approach these hearings in a completely and utterly unbiased fashion.  We know we are implored by the Act to treat the victims with compassion and respect which we do and are fully aware of that.  We also are fully aware of the rights of applicants.  We come into these hearings cold as it were, receive evidence, listen to the evidence, listen to the arguments and submissions of legal representatives and apply the evidence that is relevant to the criteria in the Act and  then arrive at a decision.  That is our function, that is why it's sometimes quite distressing when we get conflict in these hearings because we are of the view that these hearings should be carried out with dignity and decorum and I'm not saying that there hasn't been, that this has been undignified and with no decorum but that is what we aspire to.  We will now proceed with the rest of the matters.  Is it Ms of Mrs Welgemoed?