TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  I have four.  There were four policemen that raided my house.  They were driving in a blue private car and they were all armed with rifle and 9mm firearms, as I understand.  They were with one guy that was - they had at the time, and they instructed him to give them firearms for my house, and they told Numbulelo to give them firearms and this guy, and the guy said he didn't say there were firearms in my house, and they raided the house and they couldn't find any, and they asked Numbulelo whether these three kids are hers or mine and she said, "Yes", and they told her that they are going to eat mud, because I'm going to be killed.  That was Moses Gumede.  He is now heading investigating officers still in Esikhaweni.  My child, Mbali, she was able to go out of there to this place across the street, running, and the youngest, Mkululeko, at the time, was asking them whether they would give him the firearms that they had, because he was very young at that time, and they asked him where my firearm is and Mkululeko said I don't, he was the only person that had a firearm.  At that time he had a toy.