MR BLACK
Yes that is so.  When Mrs van der Walt indicated that there was a possibility of him being recalled I indicated this to him.  He arrived here this morning, he said it's impossible for him to be here, he has to be in Durban.  There's a joint council meeting between the Durban and Piet Retief areas that cannot be rescheduled it's a long standing arrangement.  I asked him to explain this to the leader of evidence and what the situation should be.  He's not available to testify today, he is willing at any stage to give evidence and it's - I asked him just ...[intervention]