MR DLAMINI
Take it slowly.  Don't rush yourself.  Try to remember.  Try to recall everything.  We know it's a very sad thing to lose your son.  At the time when we came ... (inaudible) ... Madiba, she went - he went to put the tombstones to the relatives.  That's why I met Winnie Mandela.  I told about my two children who died, because she knew them because we were together in Johannesburg.  She said she didn't hear about that.  I also told her about my child who died.  I said, "He's the one I had during the time Mandela was being arrested, when it appeared on the Sunday Times".  That's when I got injured in Faraday (?).  Winnie didn't say to me she didn't know this child.  She said, "It's all right, my sister, I'm going to Lusaka next week".  I couldn't meet my brother-in-law, Madiba, because a lot of people were looking for him.  After that we never met with Winnie eye to eye personally.  She didn't give me any answer.  I also went back to Dolly, her cousin.  Mrs Mandela was born at Inzidume and Dolly also was born there.  Even Dolly was not telling me the truth, because she spoke - she told me