CLEMENT KHEHLANA GXABU
It started by them discussing important issues with the government and they'd come to us with decisions and conclusions already being made.  This is why we ended up doing to Albert Luthuli asking what we should do if the ANC is banned.  I just want to add that the role of the chiefs as the people that were leaders, there came a time when as I'm going to clarify, as the chiefs were leading people, they were representing the people and the desires of the people.  Then unfortunately there came a time when they were working together with the government of the day.  Then there was division between the people and the chiefs.  They would be given decisions by the government to take to the people.  The people rejected such decisions.  Then the chiefs would
go to the magistrate, the magistrate who led the chiefs.  Then the magistrate would ask whether the chief was being led or was leading, was he a ruler or was he being ruled over? Then he would come back to us and say that we are going to obey him, no matter what.
 Then what happened is that the chief was not representing the people as such but was ruling over the people in a tyrannical way.