FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson, I had constant contact with Calla Botha as I have already said, we exercised together, we participated in sport at the rugby club and in discussions with him and also things that I observed, he had a pager just like me, he bought the same car at more or less the same time, in the same price range, and the way in which he acted, I think we both realised at the same time, we were running around the Florida Lake and we found out then that we were working for the same organisation, and through discussions with Mr Botha it came out that they were active as a cell and he told me about Chappie Maree's involvement and Mr Staal Burger's involvement, as well as Slang van Zyl.
	At a later stage, as I have already said, I met Slang van Zyl, I already knew where he was working by means of his now ex-wife, or the wife he had then.   I knew her because she was a Prosecutor, while I was a Detective, and that is how I met Slang van Zyl.  It was against all the rules, but that is how we did it, we were all conscious members.