DEON MARTIN
And during these visits Phil Kloppers told Eugene Terreblanche straight: "Listen I want to speak to the leader" in front of all these other people, we were all present there.  He told Terreblanche there: "Listen, I did not act on my own, I had an instruction from Japie Oelofse and Japie Oelofse did not deny this", Eugene Terreblanche said he was aware of that.