MR P DU PLESSIS
But later you did receive notice that in terms of the Act, in terms of further indemnity, that this first application of yours was referred to the hearing of two Judges in Bloemfontein and indeed it was done on the 9th of December 1993, where you were then represented by Attorney Havenga and Juri Wessels and they argued on behalf of you.  Were you present there?