MR PHOSA
No, no, you don't follow me.  I can only assume that.  You have been telling us all things and you have been thinking about it yourself and I am asking you to say now whether you do say, agree that after all, now with hindsight, Siphiwe Mthimkhulu and Topsy Madaka, and others like them, were driven to that kind of conduct by the conditions, adverse conditions created by the government that you were serving.  Do you accept that now?