MR MEYER
That is correct, yes.  As I've already indicated and I'm not going to deal with each applicant respectively, I first want to address the Committee in a broad way on the quality of the evidence of the applicants.
	And, once again, when one considers the quality of their evidence, Mr Chairman, it's my submission, as I've already said that it's important to remember that the events took place a substantial amount of time or a very long time ago.  And that it's impossible for the applicants to remember each and every detail of how and when and where and who they assaulted and which methods they used.
	Once again, also in the context of the fact that is was normal practice in the Security Police to use these methods, and I think the evidence by, and I think it was Mr Nesamari, indicated that there was no discipline, that there were no real rules that were laid down ...(intervention)