MR P DU PLESSIS
Sorry Mr Chairman, may I just say that I totally disagree, my view, with respect, is there's nothing improper about my questioning, I did not lead this witness, what I've done now is to just summarise what has been said by him up to this stage.  I did not ask him what the perception of van Zyl, for instance, was, I asked him whether he would be surprised if that was said to have been his perception.  There's a total difference there.