MR VERSTER
I shall say what I want to say, Mr Chairperson.  The entire endeavour was to prevent that information reaches the Harms Commission which was applicable during those times, for the reasons that I have mentioned.  And I would like to add by saying, if one looks at what - I did not get an opportunity to say this earlier, when Braam went to Special Forces Headquarters, I would like to put it to you that although I was not present it was said to me at that stage that there was another reason why these files were being looked for.  This was in order to remove documentation from the files.  The reason was to withhold the State's accountability with regard to these files and from my side I am trying to make this evidence available.  So the whole endeavour in the Harms Commission was within that context as I have sketched to you, there was no other intention other than survival.