ANDRIES JOHANNES GERHARDUS ERWEE
Chairperson, I think I have understood the question correctly.  When it 
was said to me that the insurgents are busy crossing the border and that they were 
carrying bags with them, the observation post didn't notify me whether the people had 
their firearms outside and that reassured me that the planning would fall within the 
framework of our planning, because it would have been an unheard of thing for 
insurgents to drive around, showing their firearms openly.
	It would have been very risky.  For that reason, I believed that when we 
stopped the vehicle and threw the hand grenade to cause shock and confusion, that by 
the time the insurgents have taken out their firearms, cocked them, etc, that they at 
that stage already would have realised that here is an armed vehicle and weapons are 
aimed at us, uniformed people surrounding us etc.
	That is why I believed that we will be able to arrest the insurgents without 
them really offering any resistance and then when I saw through the window how the 
passenger in the left front shot through the window and that Captain Born collapsed, 
and I then also heard a short volley of shots, it is true we are trained, I myself am 
trained in the case of contact with insurgents, you deliver maximum fire power to 
protect your own life and not as in the normal situation.  You are trained in that 
situation, to give the maximum fire until there is no resistance left.
	I must also mention it to the Chairperson, that when I started firing, I fired at 
the combi and at the passengers.
	There was teargas so I couldn't see very clearly, I couldn't see very clearly 
where each person, each passenger was sitting, I just fired.