FERDINAND BARNARD
No I do not agree.  I think what happened was that there was a good case hearing as it happened with Willy Smit and additionally if there's any reference to records we should not only consult the records of my criminal trial but we should consult the record of his cross-examination when he testified during the PMI.  What actually took place during the tea adjournment is that I recalled something in which he and I were both involved and he attached the Webster admission to an incident where a Pretoria police officer was involved.  I know how the police operate, I know that there are records of everything that takes place and so forth, and during the tea adjournment I went to phone Mr Fuerter(?) and General Hume, they consulted their pocket books and they saw that what I had said is something that he knew about.  And then he folded.  And when he saw Colonel Fuerter come in and that the notebook was handed in to the Presiding Judge he folded at that point and not at another point.