CHAIRPERSON
Do you draw the line there at - the question was, people can get tortured if they cooperate, people can get tortured if they don't cooperate, where do you draw the line because on your evidence you've mentioned that Mr Gordhan was completely uncooperative whereas that wasn't the case with Mr Lalla yet both were subjected to the same form of treatment.  Where do you draw the line, who don't you torture?