MR KOOPEDI
He states on that page and that is the third paragraph from the bottom, I'm reading the last sentence of that application that
"I am submitting a more detailed application in the interest of full disclosure and to facilitate the work of the Committee."
He goes on in the next paragraph, I'm only quoting to you the last line also where he starts by saying:
"I wish to accept responsibility for those persons who acted under my command and to apply for amnesty for any acts that may fall within the ambit of the Act."
Chairperson it's my submission that for any application to fall within the ambit of the Act, it must be an application for a specific incident or operation and the applicant must be in a position to fully disclose all the material facts related to that operation.  The incidents that are to be before you here concerning the landmines in this area, Mr Kasrils will not be in a position to give you any details about those details due to the fact that he was not part of the units that were in this area that carried out these operations.  He was also not even part of the command structure, or the Commanders that commanded these units.
	If we look at his application, Chairperson, he mentions incidents where he was directly and personally involved.  I refer you to page 6, Chairperson, of the bundle of documents and he refers to what he calls the De Lange unit.  He says on the last page, I mean in the last sentence of the first paragraph on this issue he says:
"I regard this as a special unit which both  collected information inside the country and carried out operations and (underlined, Chairperson) under my command in 1986 and in 1987."
These operatives were directly commanded by him and in this instance, this is not the case, as you will see in the course of giving evidence.  
	I go on, Chairperson.  I refer you to the next incident on page 7 where he speaks about the Pietersburg Holiday Inn Anthea's Club.  I will read the first part of it:
"Another operation which falls into the category described above,"
and the interesting part is the one that is put in brackets, that is:
"(where I was involved with a unit that carried out reconnaissance as well as the operation)."
Now if you go to the paragraph which I believe led the evidence analyst in this matter to include him here, this is the paragraph which is entitled "Landmine Operations".
In this paragraph he states what his roll was.  As it could be seen earlier on he has mentioned that at this time he was the head of Military Intelligence and Military Intelligence provided maps of border areas and the farm and security network.  Instructions were given on reconnaissance methods.  No instructions were given by him that anyone should come and reconnoitre the area in Messina.  He says he gave instructions on how to do reconnaissance, how to plan for this and on the collection of data. 
	It is therefore my submission Chairperson, that Mr Kasrils did not at any stage intend to apply for amnesty with regard to this matter.
	Finally, Chairperson, I will say that from my consultations with him, it became clear that not only is he not knowledgeable about the specifics of these matters, but that they were similar kind of applications which I believe, they were held in Nelspruit concerning the Mpumalanga area, where some people appeared and also got amnesty.  At the time when those Mpumalanga operations were carried out, Mr Kasrils occupied the same position, that is vis a vis the time when these were carried out and my submission is that he was not called to appear in those hearings, he was not an applicant in those hearings, for the simple reason he had no direct knowledge of the facts that would apply here.
	But finally Chairperson, I believe the underlying statement would be that even if he had wished to apply for this incident, his application would not fall within the ambit of the Act because he would have applied for something he does not know.  
	Thank you Chairperson.