KONAKWAKHE ELLIOT SHANGASE
I beg your pardon.  When this Mr Zulu who is applying for amnesty, was there.  When we approached, they saw us.  They said things are bad, because they saw us now.
	That is when they started to shoot and we shot back at them and they fled.  This one took his right hand, exiting from the butchery, towards the east and we followed the other one, that he says was also killed during the time when Luthuli was killed.  That is Thulani Zulu, he is the person that died on that day.
	These are different days and incidents, but now they want the Commission to think it is one thing, one incident.
	Now let me take a different turn altogether and refer to the next incident.  It was February in 1993, around the 3rd.  Around one or two in the afternoon, because one of these elderly folks, or old men, was just coming from me with his livestock, to leave the livestock, not too far away from my house.
	At about quarter past one, after he had left, around ten past two, Mrs (indistinct) came to tell us that the people are being finished and told us that there are people who have already died, like Hlatswayo.   Mthetwa for instance, we will never see him, he has died.
	One other, we are not too sure if he has also died, that was at the time, she wasn't sure.  Indeed, we left the two of us, myself and my brother, Ngiba or my friend Ngiba.  We went to the scene and we found them laying down there, dead.
	These ones were nowhere to be seen.  We were told the story that Zakhele, Linda, Siabonga, Zita came and when we looked at the corpses that were laying down, we reported the incident to the police, that they should come and fetch the corpses.
	These boys arrived there and found these four old men drinking.  If I were to tell you about their spouses, you will perfectly understand my story, because they are present here.
	It is not true what they said that they were political organisations, that there was this political violence going on in the area, it is not true.  This Dadada, if I were to show you his grandchild, you will see how old the grandchild is, and he had an arm which was folded like that, he was disabled physically.
	He was physically disabled, he was not even drinking liquor.  He was only there in the company of the others.  It was not a meeting as they claim.  People who survived that incident, are there, are present right here.