ADV NYOKA
You see, in that Jack case it's very relevant in the sense that it occurred on the 12th of August 1985 only three months after the Pebco people who alleged they've been assaulted with an iron pipe.  It seemed to me that you used an instrument during that year but that in the Jack case you used a sjambock because you didn't want to kill him, you just wanted to wipe him and in the Pebco you wanted to kill him, that's why the ...[indistinct] pipe was used.