MR VISSER
If I may just reply Mr Chairman.  Mr Ngo applies for amnesty in regard to this very incident.  The amnesty application is based on the evidence of Mr Ngo that is was members of the security branch who perpetrated this deed.  That has been supported by Mr White Mohapi Mr Chairman.  We are not concerned with Mr White Mohapi's credibility, we are concerned with Mr Ngo's credibility.  Because Mr Chairman, with respect, this docket is material to Mr Ngo's credibility because if you read the docket you would immediately see why Mr Chairman.  And with great respect, Commissioner Ngoepe has quite rightly pointed out how long this matter has taken.  We must say Mr Chairman that, with all due respect, that we may have contributed somewhat to the delay or to the fact that it hasn't been completed.  But really, if you want to draw a line Mr Chairman, why must it be drawn when my clients are trying to put evidence before you?  With great respect ...[intervention]