MR WILLS
Yes, and if I can just refer you to the evidence of, or should I say the statement of Mr de Kock that day, it seems to support what he says.  If you can just bear with me, Mr Chairperson.  I'm referring to a translation that I've had done of de Kock's statement and it appears at I think page, it commences at page 112 of the second bundle.  Sorry, no it doesn't Mr Chairperson, it commences at 11 - yes, 112.
	Now according to Mr de Kock, the information he got from Coetzer - and Mr Chairman, you'll have to excuse me, I've got a translation, it's not an official translation but I know it's accurate, but I haven't numbered it, it hasn't been numbered according to the paragraphs, but it looks like about ...(intervention)