MR BERGER
Chairperson, I haven't looked at the Heads for a long time, but it was a denial that they were present at all.  And there was an argument about the attack having been carried out with military precision, if I remember correctly.  I don't know if Mr Frederech was the instructing attorney in the trial.
MR FREDERECH ?: Chair, at that stage I was not on the scene yet, but it was a bare denial that was given.  That was the instruction.  They were not there at the scene when - yes.