MS THABETHE
Madam Chair my response would be clearly the evidence of Mr Radebe contradicts that of Mr Mkhwanazi with regard to who issued the order.  Nevertheless, I think the Committee shouldn't attach too much weight to that contradiction because Mr Mkhwanazi, in his application he says, where he's asked where he got the order from, he says from John Radebe, which suggests that he regarded John Radebe as his immediate commander.  To me it appears as if he really does not understand, but that's my own opinion, the real question of what is meant by command, because having mentioned Bonga Khumalo, it's not far fetched from the truth that Khumalo was a commander of these four units, even 'though he was an overall commander not a unit commander, and it's also not too far fetched, the fact that John Radebe was a second in command, but the problem is he wasn't a second in command to Bonga Khumalo but to Mabusa.