MR VISSER
June 1985.  Yes, that was the Kabwe Conference at Gorongoza and Chairperson, you will find reference to that in the ANC's Submissions.  I believe it's page 56.  May I just check quickly, Chairperson?  Yes.  Sorry, sorry Chairperson, I gave you the wrong - no its August, yes it's the August statement, Chairperson at page 52.  Yes, in the right-hand column, it starts in the middle
"By the end of 1985 an official ANC pamphlet titled 'Take the struggle to the white areas' was distributed..."
and then it goes on from there and then it says, the next paragraph or two paragraphs later:
"The period between 1985 and 1988 witnessed unprecedented violence, overwhelmingly directed at black civilians."
So there was violence, Chairperson and my attorney just wants me to point out also to you, the ANC's Submissions of 12th May 1997 at page 15, a quotation from an interview with the late Mr Chris Hani.  It says:
"This is a quote from Chris Hani, at the time MK Commissar, from a speech broadcast on the ANC Radio Freedom on March 1st 1986"
and it quotes, I'm not going to read the first sentence.  The second sentence reads:
"Umkhonto weSizwe, instructed by the leadership of the ANC, is gearing itself to step up activity in white areas, so that the entire country should be ungovernable."
It's quite clear, Chairperson, that all the information certainly which we have and that we know that the Committee has, seems to indicate that 1986 was a watershed year and the violence only subsided in 1988, only again to increase, I believe it was in 1990, after the Pretoria and the Groote Schuur Minutes.  So, Chairperson, we submit with respect that my learned friend is incorrect with his facts in that regard.  	Next, Chairperson, my learned friend then did two things.  First he suggested to Botha that he was not making a full disclosure because, said he, that some of the injuries of some of the occupants of the car were from the left side, were fired from their left side.  This starts, Chairperson, at page 559 of the record.  I must just indicate a correction to you, Chairperson, in the middle of that page, after:
"