MR POTGIETER
Thank you very much Hlengiwe.  Order, order, we are missing the testimony.  We can't hear what the witness says if you make a loud noise.  So please - Brigadier can we just round off this point that Ms Mkhize has raised with you because it's not quite clear to me what your position is on the submission on page 12 that the action by the military was thus defensive in nature, I just want to come back to that.  I have heard what you said but do you stand by this submission?