MR VAN ZYL
No, I'm not saying that.  I have just told you that as far as I know, Kalla testified that he was present when the powder was given to me.  Whether he knew what the reason was and what the purpose was for the powder, I cannot comment on.  I think that is a question that in all fairness, you must ask of him.  I cannot say whether he speaks the truth or not, I did not tell him anything of the Omar project.