MR DEHAL
Judge, I think those are important questions.  I for one, hadn't anticipated that this would be the argument today, nor have I prepared argument in that regard, and I think it is an important question and I think perhaps more important is Judge Pillay's inquiry that one, this is not evidence before us, two, even though it is evidence in the 29 proceedings, can it really be used to question Mr Ismail thereon.   My submissions are, it cannot.   Firstly because it is not evidence and secondly because Mr Ismail was neither present at the 29 proceedings, nor is now familiar with it.