TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  It had a very bad effect on my family.  I mean in part it was the cause of the collapse of my marriage, you know, you can't really sustain a marriage for too many years under those conditions, you know.   And it has had the most devastating effect on my children.   My daughter, who was going to come and sit with me here today, when she heard Fatima starting to talk, she sent me a little note saying, "I am taking flak, I have got to go, I will see you later", you know.  She is getting shock therapy still to today, you know, and I am sure there are many causes for that, but at least some of them are - go back to this year.  My son is finished.   He is a total disaster, you know.   You know, when the bullets had finished flying past his face, whilst he was eating his supper, and when the whole sort of epoch of living with this ugly shotgun and the talk of violence all the time, and the precautionary measures we took, you know, I fortified that house like a Rhodesian farmhouse in the bush war, you know.   I built up the front verandah.   I got a piece of ship's plate from the Bayhead and I welded up a sliding rack, so that, at night, we could slide this piece of steel across the front entrance to the verandah, with great ... (inaudible) ... padlocks at the bottom.  I put grenade screens on the windows.   I built the garden wall up to two metres and put a great heavy gate there.   And at the back verandah door where the shooting had taken place, I had built a screen wall so that nobody could shoot straight into the door and to come in, you would have to walk around this wall and all of that, you know, and we never stood in front of open windows, and it is not good for a kid.   And when that ended for him, some six/seven years later, he was due to go to the army now and get some more of it.   And he just disappeared.   He disappeared into Africa.   I don't know how he got across the borders.   I mean MK could have learnt a couple of things from him, I  dare  say, but he  would be - he was all over Botswana;  Zimbabwe;  Malawi, where  he really got into smoking "nsangu", dagga, in a serious way.   And his life really fell apart, you know.    He spent years dogging the army, he  just wouldn't respond to their calls, you know, he just vanished.   And he would appear every now and then  really dishevelled and, you know, his life had become  totally meaningless and it is still is.  He is unable to work.    And, you know, I am sure  there are  other reasons for this, some of them may be genetic or circumstantial in  other ways, but  certainly this is very  important amongst  the things  that have damaged him.    Yes, I don't have to say that it is a sad experience and - but one admires your courage and listening to you when you relate one would think that you are talking about somebody else, not you.   I just want to pay tribute to that gift you have.   ---   Thank you.