SHAKESPEARE THAMI BUTHELEZI
That is correct but could I clarify a certain issue?  Mabena had the discretion to issue an order, for instance if I was not present at the time and the unit had to do something or carry out an important operation, he could do that if he was not present.  I do not want to confine myself to the fact that he could not.  In this specific case he could have issued out an order and at the end of the day he could not be held responsible for having issued out this order because probably there wasn't anyone at that time to issue an order of that kind.  I met Mabena in prison, I would like to clarify this to the Committee that our struggle, especially during the 1990's, escalated so much so that people never got a chance to be actively involved in politics or to be educated or be given a proper brief with regard to the struggle or the politics of the country.  As a result, as Mr Mabena has already testified as a member of the PAC, he is recognised by the PAC and I would request him to be granted amnesty because he participated in the struggle of the country irrespective of the nature of the participation, but what he did, he did it as a hero who was concerned about the wellbeing of the entire African nation, that's why he decided to repossess from the oppressors.  I think that's all I'm going to say for now.