GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT
No, I'm not making a mistake.  I just want to explain to you, during my identification on the 10th of December 1996, Mr Dumisa Ntsebeza confronted me with a statement that the Askaris came to report to me from Vlakplaas and that I was to have given them instructions concerning their jobs regarding the identification of insurgents.
	I was not involved with the terrorist desk and I denied this to Mr Dumisa, I said that they did not report to me namely Captain Venter.  I did not even know Captain Venter - of the whole team and those who were at Post Chalmers, I only knew Moss personally.  And I also said this to Mr Dumisa as well as to Advocate Chris Mac Adam.