JOHANNES JACOBUS VIKTOR
Just one second.  No I didn't change him, he had his own mind, I didn't change him.  And why, as I say send the man to jail for many years, he's just gone out for military training, so as a detective, as a policeman surely I can use him much better.  He's been out in the camps there, in Angola or wherever in Africa or overseas, he knows who went with him to the camps.  And I can assure you the more unsophisticated people they could remember 200 to 250 people who were in training with them.  He will give you his name, where he came from, what camps he was in, so that was my idea.  As I say I didn't think I was called here to report or to explain to the Commission about Vlakplaas, but seeing that you've asked now I can tell you, that is how I founded Vlakplaas, to give that man a place to stay and of course to make use of his knowledge.