TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Reverend Bijani was the minister of religion at our church.  He wasn't working with him. Because I heard you say that he called Pitso Moghele at one time.   ---   Yes, he called him telephonically because Pitso was also a church member.  I think he was a church elder.  Pitso was a church elder, and he was running the MBB organisation.