MR VISSER
Yes.  But Mr Chairman, may I just reply to your question, Mr Chairman?  I have to just reply and that is just to say this.  On the way in which we read the document, which may be wrong, if it turns out at the end of the day that he gave entirely different perpetrators, it is a relevant point for you to know Mr Chairman and I take it no further than that and that is what I've been trying to bring to your attention.  You've now corrected me and said that I may be wrong ...[intervention]