MR VISSER
Thank you Chairperson.  Chairperson, I'm going to be brief.  This is an application before you for the assault on both Mr Gordhan and Mr Lalla.  One of the outstanding features here, Chairperson, is that there is no dispute about the method or the intensity of the assault as testified to by the applicants through Mr Gordhan's or Mr Lalla's cross-examination.
	Chairperson, least I forget, the application for amnesty, I specified specifically assault at page 1 of D, Chairperson, or any other delict or offence.  I did not specify, Chairperson, the obvious one and that is defeating the ends of justice by not having reported it later but in line with previous applications, Chairperson, we will ask you to include that under that general heading under B.
	Chairperson, Botha has given evidence on a number of occasions about Operation Vula.  You have documents before you about Operation Vula.  We know what it was more or less about.  What Botha said at the hearing when you were not present, Chairperson, was that he had received information - well, perhaps I should just fill you in on the background.
	Botha says he went to Swaziland in 1988 and approached Mr Ndaba directly to become an informer and Mr Ndaba did so.  Mr Maharaj gave a very good reason why that would have happened.  He said that at the time in 1988 ANC MK operatives in Swaziland was under pressure because the enemy was making life very difficult for them.  Perhaps that might have been the reason why Mr Ndaba decided to become an informer but that's not relevant why he did so.  Mr Botha says he did.
	Then Chairperson, in 1988 Mr Ndaba became the deputy commander of the Natal urban machinery of MK in Swaziland.  That was a very important event because Mr Botha explained the moment that happened his name automatically was placed on the list of Trevits who was security organisation composed of different sections of the security establishment in order to identify targets in other countries, particularly in our neighbouring countries.  And then Chairperson, what he did, that is Botha, is he suggested to Mr Ndaba that he should try to arrange for him to be recalled to Lusaka because Botha was afraid that Ndaba might be eliminated.  That's just a little bit of background, Chairperson.  He then gave Ndaba a name of a contact person in Malawi plus his address and telephone number as well as a contact person in Swaziland and his telephone number.
	Then Chairperson, we come to 1990.  According to Mr Maharaj, Ndaba came into the R.S.A. illegally on the 4th or the 7th February 1990.  That accords with the evidence of Mr Botha who says it was early in 1990.  Approximately six weeks before the 7th July 1990, Botha says Ndaba contacted him, it was a direct contact, telephonic and certain meetings were then held.  Botha could remember as I remember his evidence of two or three such meetings.  During this time Mr Ndaba informed Botha that he had become involved in an operation which was headed by Mr Oliver Tambo himself and he referred to the President's Committee and he gave Mr Botha certain information.  Mr Botha was quite clear that he was unable to recall what information was precisely given to him at what date but what is important, Chairperson, was that Ndaba was arrested on the 7th July by an askari, as it turned out later by two askaris.