NICHOLAS JOHANNES MR VERMEULEN
What I want to say is the information had been conveyed to Mr de Kock after the shooting incident.  The planning from the police station before we went into Chesterville the first time and then up to the shooting, of this Mr de Kock knew nothing.  The first time that he had any knowledge was when Willie Nortje arrived at CR Swart and reported to him that a shooting had taken place in Chesterville, Mr Chairperson.