MR MHLABA
Thank you, Chair.  I would like to start by responding to the last question.  Mr Chair, the question of them reasonably believing that they were acting on the, that is acting in furtherance of the political objective of the African National Congress, that is I believe a subjective test, not necessarily an objective test, or the test should cut both ways.  It should be partly subjective and partly objective.  And the reason for me saying that, Mr Chairman, is that it became very clear throughout the testimony here that these applicants were receiving orders from his immediate superior and it doesn't go further than that.  He did not have an opportunity to meet somebody higher than his superior so the question of policies was not discussed.  Hence, Mr Chairman, I referred to them as foot soldiers whose duties were to carry out the instructions of their immediate commander as soon as they agreed to participate in the SDUs.
	So Mr Chairman, the test which should be used here is whether in accepting the instructions from their commanders they should have went further and questioned: "Why do you instruct us to do certain things, tell us the policy which supports the type of operation which you want us to engage in."  Mr Chairman, it has been made very clear here that they were not allowed to ask such questions.
	With regard to the reasonableness of targeting and killing police officers, Mr Chairman, I would also want to mention to the Chair that it is not my belief that they were given a discretion or they ought to look into the reasonableness of the order which they need to carry out.  Theirs, Mr Chairman was to carry out the orders as they received from their commanders.  So the targets were not identified by them as the foot soldiers, the targets were identified by their, the got the details of the targets from their commanders and it's not even known to them whether it was their immediate commander who determined the target. Whether it came as high up as the leadership of the African National Congress, that they do not know, Mr Chairman.
	With regard to the question of the suspension of the armed struggle, yes it is true that the armed struggle was suspended at the time of the killing of these police officers, however Mr Chairman, it is known that after the suspension of the armed struggle, structures such as the SDUs were still in existence.  And the call for the establishment of the SDUs was done while the political leaders were still negotiating the political future of this country and it was done when the armed struggle was formally suspended.  There was an announcement of suspension of armed struggle.  
	It is however a known fact that certain high-ranking leaders of the African National Congress associated themselves with the Self Defence Units, even called for their establishment, so it was not an establishment of these foot soldiers, Mr Chairman.  Thank you.