MR RUDOLPH
The first one, Your Honour, took place in 1991 in Natal while, in terms of Section 29, I was in detention, I was not directly involved in that, so in my humble submission, we cannot really refer to gross violations.  It was simply a matter that two people received amnesty while the first one, there indicates that the third one there is litigation in the Supreme Court with regard to the reporter.  That happened in Pretoria.  I was found guilty there.  I applied for amnesty in order to clear my record, Your Honour.
	There were also not gross violations of human rights.  If you would say, as far as I am concerned, that is not a gross violation of human rights.