TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Okay, and then through the recommendation from Mr Mbeki and then I was informed by the officers of the - actually of the late - the former President, Mr Oliver Tambo, that I should be moved from Zambia to Angola and then from then and then that was when, early 1987, then I was moved to Angola and then in Angola I was kept in the maximum prison by the name - I think it is Nova Stellasou.  Nova Stellasou, that is Portuguese, which means new installation.  So then from then and then I stayed there about two weeks.  Then from there then I was moved to a northern part of Angola, the place called Kibashe, in the camp called Quadro Quadro.  It's Portuguese.  In English it's, four.  So I served my punishment there from 1987 to 1988 and then through my punishment I was doing hard labour and then I understood the situation pertaining food, because we had a problem of food there and then I would say the ANC didn't deprive us food.  I would be lying if I say so, but because Angola was in the civil war whereby Unita was very strong in Kibashe and therefore the trucks that were supposed to bring food to us, I would say were ambushed by Unita.  So then even Mr Oliver Tambo himself visited us and then he asked us about food and then we told him, you know, "Right, we do get food, but, you know, not like in the other camps", etcetera, etcetera, because Kibashe was really in the war.  And then from then and then 1988, after the New York Accord between Soviet Union, Cuba, Angola, South Africa and for the independence of Namibia then that is when now the ANC was moved from Angola to Uganda.  So then in Uganda we were