BERNARD MAKGABO NGOEPE
Now, wait a minute.  Just a minute.  I do not  think whether you will be right to say that he was confused.  If, I am looking at the record, for example, page 53.  Mr de Jager asked a question.
"Can you tell me did you on visiting head office and speaking to Mr Hani, did you mention the name of Mr Shabangu".
and then Mr Nkuna answered,
"I mentioned it, not it alone, with many."
and
"Was it then planned that he should be removed?"
Mr Nkuna,
"Of course".
And then Mr de Jager,
"And did Mr Hani approve of that".
Mr Nkuna,
"Yes".
Mr de Jager,
"So that was not a general instruction, it was a specific instruction there?".
Mr Nkuna,
"Yes, it became specific in that manner".
and then he went on and then Mr de Jager came back again,
"Yes, could I summarise it.  Do I understand you correctly that he said as a general order eliminate agents?".
Mr Nkuna,
"Yes.  Of the Government?  Yes".
Then Mr de Jager came back again to the specific order
"As a specific order he told you to eliminate Mr Shabangu?".
The answer,
"Yes".
And then at that stage I intervened precisely because I wanted to clear this possible misunderstanding about the general order and the specific order.  I interjected at that stage and I said,
"Sorry, we must make sure that we are on the same wavelength here".
Mr Nkuna said,
"Yes".
Then I continued,
"So, are you saying that the name of Mr Shabangu was actually mentioned in the discussion with the late Mr Hani?"
Then he says, 
"Yes".
And then I said,
"That Mr Shabangu should in fact be eliminated?"
Then he says,
"Yes".
Then I asked him,
"In your presence?"
He said,
"Yes, in my presence".
And then Mr Patel took further from that point, but what I am trying to say to you is that if you go back to the point where I actually came in, my purpose of coming in at that stage was precisely to clear up the point you are trying to raise now, that there was a confusion about the general order and the specific order and that is why I came in at that stage and I said let us be sure that we are on the same wavelength and I do not think I could have put it any clearer than that.