MR VISSER
Yes.  All right.  Can I just go back then a step, because I jumped a step, go back to paragraph 2 of Exhibit B.
	After this conversation, this discussion had taken place at C.R. Swart Square, you have already told us that you weren't part of the planning, but you were told what had happened, etc.  You then go on to say if I recall correctly, Mike, which refers to Michael Lembede, Spyker, which refers to a person by the name of Spyker Mhieza, is that correct?