ABRAM VAN ZYL
Mr Chairperson, I want to tell you that I don't think we should confuse this aspect.  Peaches and also Gakie was primarily recruited not as informants to gain information regarding banned organisations or targets, those persons were recruited to give execution to our projects.  In other words I want to give him a weapon and I want to indicate a target for him and I want to tell him please go and shoot this person, please go and kill that person, that is why they were initially recruited and it is for the same reason, Mr Chairperson, that we could not use our old structures because they were informants, they were sources and they could not be used for the means that we wanted to use Isgak and Peaches.