MR MBANDAZAYO
Chairperson, exactly.  I think I will advance that argument.  I won't have any qualms if Mr Letklapa was an applicant here, he was present also, he made submissions.  I won't advance any argument because he was a policy-maker, definitely a top man.  Then I wouldn't have any qualms when you talk about proportionality when it comes to him because definitely he was a decision-maker, he was not (sic) part and parcel of the decision-making in the APLA as person who was having high office and given that responsibility to direct operations.  So definitely he was there - when it comes to him.
	But when it comes to Luyanda Gqomfa was a foot-soldier and he was commanded by him, instructed him to do that.  I would definitely, Chairperson, also advance the same argument that when it comes to him at least the proportionality and the question of gravity should not be applied.