PIETER JAKOBUS GOUWS
As I have mentioned right in the beginning, I met Mr De Ru in person only today, here for the first time in person, but his parents, I think his mother I don't know if it is  his father also, living in Parys constituency and I dealt with them during that period in time.  In the area where he is operating and I know, or knowing the farming community there Mr Jannie Els was Chairperson of our defence, we actually established here in 1990, the situation became so bad that we established a Safety and Security Committee within the Free State to liaison with the police and the defence force, now Mr Jannie Els was present Chairperson of that specific Committee in Heilbron area, I know those people are extremely conservative, the farming community and they would have exerted a tremendous amount of pressure on that local police.  Now what they did, how they did, what Mr De Ru's personal involvement is, I cannot say anything about it, I don't know.