FERDINAND BARNARD
Yes, Sir, there were askaris used.  There was close co-operation between DCC and Mr Eugene de Kock them at Vlakplaas.  Myself and Mr Eugene de Kock were personal friends, we interacted on a social basis and at a certain stage when Vlakplaas was down-scaling and they worked on the political aspects.   Mr de Kock knew things were changing and he came to me with his askaris and his top operators and he offered them to me and I then took them in.  Mr Henry van der Westhuizen who also used agents, he was the specialist in the ANC, the Anti-propaganda Unit, but we did not recruit askaris ourselves as Vlakplaas did it, we got them in other places but there were some who worked with us, yes.