PAUL PHILLIPUS FRANCOIS FUCHS
It is a very long time ago.
	What I can remember is that we stood in the kitchen.  We were preparing the meat in the kitchen.  I know I was in the kitchen, Matthews came to me and I said to him, you did good work, but as to throwing anything over his head, I don't know.
	Perhaps what I can mention to the Committee, is the fact that we have been debating this issue, this past week and Superintendent Joggie Kruger said to me, Tokkie, do you know what you have done?  You were busy drinking your drink and you were mixing your ice.