MR HATTINGH
If my response to that, and I'll try to give another example, if I'm going to call a witness and I put to this applicant, "I've consulted with this and this client or this witness and this witness is going to tell this tribunal or this Committee the following", and if this applicant responds to that and says, "No, that is absolutely not the truth, it's a lot of rubbish, a pack of lies, what I'm telling this Committee in my application is the truth", I would be surprised if the Committee tells me then, "Well the applicant's already indicated that is, whatever that witness is going to tell this Committee will not be the truth, so we don't want to hear that witness".   I will expect this Committee to say, "Well, let's hear that witness and let's test that witness, and let us in the end have the applicant and his version, the opposing party with his version, and if they are irreconcilable we have to make a finding on credibility, and then decide whether this applicant can be believed", and that is in fact the same we would like to do with the ...(intervention).