MR VISSER
Mr Chairman, we were told in chambers yesterday by Mr Wills, that he had information that Mr Visagie was in the country, my attorney once again made enquiries and he's been assured that Mr Visagie is not in the country.  So unless Mr Wills knows something that we don't, that's the state of the situation at this stage.
	Mr Chairman, while we're on this point, may I refer you to the record where we have dealt with this before at the inception of these hearings.  I refer you with respect, to page 1647 of the record and Chairperson, what we said there is, Mr Visagie is an applicant, he is not available and that he was at that stage in the United States.  At this stage we don't know where he is, all that we ...(indistinct) know is he's not in South Africa.  We said at the bottom of that page:
"Mr Chairman, in view of the fact that on his own application, he did not commit any offence which can be stated to be a human rights violation, a gross human rights violation.  We would apply to you, Mr Chairman, that you consider his application in terms of Section 19(3)(b)(iii), which gives you the authority where there is no gross human rights violation, to dispose of such an application in chambers."
and then Mr Chairman, you ruled that your Committee was in agreement with the suggestion, but that you thought it would be ...(intervention)