TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  That's true.  May I continue?  I was tortured in many instances.  The first one, before the 29th of September 1986 I was working at Inter State Bus Line.  During that time it was known as Jacaranda Bus Service.  I was a driver, and again I was the chairperson of the stewards under South African Allied Workers Union.  It happened that more than 10 workers were retrenched on the 27th of September.  Because I was the leader of the workers we decided to stop working until those retrenched are re-employed.  It happened that they were re-employed on the 28th.  On the 29th in the morning I took my wife.  She was expectant, expecting our second child.  I took her to Pelonomi Hospital.  I arrived late, around quarter to one.  I was supposed that at 1 o'clock I should start working.  When I arrived I received message that one of our workers has been detained by the police, and that person was Moses Mhlapo.  I called all the workers.  Whilst we were still talking about this issue, how can we engage management in this issue, we took a decision that the following day we will meet our employer.  What happened at 1 o'clock when I was supposed to start working, when I arrived in the office when I was supposed to sign, they said I am not supposed to sign.  My employer said I should not go on duty.  I waited until half past three.  At 3 o'clock I see three kombis which belong to the South African Police, and they were in private uniform.  We were just relaxing as a group.  Those police were well armed, and we see that they were fighting.  One of the managers appeared, who is Mr Viljoen.  He pointed me among all the group.  These people didn't say anything to us, they just came to us with guns.  That person just pointed me.  The workers wanted to fight that I should not be arrested.  To see that these police would shoot I restrained the workers that they should leave these police to arrest me.  I was arrested and they took me to the office right inside the depot of Mr van Rensburg.  When I entered the office a certain white policeman - his surname was Jacobs.  He was accompanied by Mr van Rensburg, who was a policeman.  He hit me with an open hand.  He pushed me on the table.  While I was still looking at the depot manager to intervene he telephoned the head office of IBL.  He spoke to Mr Erasmus, who was the director of the company.  What they were talking about I don't know, but I was only to catch the last phrase, which said, "Let him be brought here."  The police took me.  We followed each other.  Whilst on the road other cars were taking another direction, but the kombi took us to another direction.  This Jacobs asked me which language do I speak.  Then I told him that I am speaking Xhosa.  Then he said, "You Xhosas, you are the ones who are looking for this land."  Then I didn't answer him.  When we arrived there one of them alighted and he went inside, and when he returned Jacobs said Mr Erasmus said he doesn't want even to see me, which they should take me.  That is where I was taken care of.