RAYNER MARIA MORINGER
That initial - let me explain how the situation when I was approached in this matter - I was told that the only person at the moment, after the death of Craig Duli who is involved, actively involved together with the South African Security Forces, is Mr Mbotoli.  He is here in Johannesburg and there is, they are busy at the moment seeking his whereabouts and killing him.  I was asked to assist in locating him.  This is when I said okay, as far as I am concerned, I don't think it is a good idea and my suggestion was to rather abduct him to the Transkei and be in the position to debrief him and find out who are actually the major players then in the South African Security establishment.  Does that ...
MR Z. MAPOMA: Yes, exactly the communication that you have just outlined now, where, I mean with whom did you communicate what you have just told the Committee?