MR CLAASSEN
No, that is indeed, that's not my argument at all.  What I'm saying is just looking at the evidence given and if any inference can be drawn from that looking at the involvement of the Inkatha Freedom Party after this crime was committed and that was I think indeed what the applicant himself tried to convey was that he, if I may just return to the point where he said that a caucus was called and that was done in party political structures.  It is indeed so that questions may be asked that some of the names that could be remembered appears to be family members.  He however ...[intervention]