TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  No.  That was a different occasion.  That was on the third occasion when they burnt the house down.  On the second occasion they pulled my brother out of the house, and my sister-in-law saw them when they were doing that.  She came into the yard from my neighbour's place, and when she came they swore at her.  They swore at her.  This is a phrase which is used in the bible which refers to a bitch.  They said, "You are the one who phoned Manqoba during the day.  We heard you speaking on the line."  She said yes, it was correct Manqoba had phoned, but how did these people know that Manqoba had phoned?  That is where we realised that they had some connections with the Flying Squad, because at that time the Flying Squad used to bug the phones and listen.  They were bugging the telephones and listening to the conversations that were going on in private homes.  So we realised that they were having certain connections with the police because they knew so much.  Now, one of the members of the gang hit my sister with the back of the gun and she fell onto the ground.  Thereafter one of them threatened that he was going to shoot, but the other members apparently restrained him from shooting.  Apparently the other one who was restraining him was their leader, and he said, "This is no time to shoot.  I will tell you as to when you are supposed to shoot, because if you can start shooting now we would not be able to get Sandile."  They were having these automatic rifles.  And after quite some time - thereafter they never came back, because they wanted me and they could not get me at that time, and I had stopped living at my place because I knew that they wanted me.  On the 23rd of October my sister-in-law was told by her helper that there were certain two boys who came into the house and they never spoke to anyone.  They just looked around the house and they went outside and looked at the yard, then they went away.  This was related now by the helper to my sister-in-law.  It was at about 9 o'clock, if I am not mistaken.  They heard gunshots from outside, and when they went to investigate as to what was happening they realised that the whole house was on fire.  The gunfire went on and on, and they were trapped inside the house.  They couldn't get out because they were hearing gunshots.  When they tried to open the door they could not, and they realised that it seemed as if the door was tied or locked from outside so that they couldn't open it from inside.  There is another neighbour called Fanfani who was screaming outside and asking them to release the people who were inside because there were babies or infants inside.  Then the neighbours started screaming, and as it was like that this group went into - the neighbours went into the yard and they broke a window, tried to pull the burglar guard in order to rescue the people who were inside.  My sister-in-law threw the baby out of the window, and they left Fanfani so that he could take the child with, but they were trapped.  The rest of the people were trapped inside, they could not go outside.  And at that time when the house was burnt my brother was suffering from asthma, and at that time he was suffocating.  My sister-in-law was trying to protect my brother, because at that time he was getting burnt and she was trying to undress him because he was on fire, and they had poured petrol underneath the door, as well as on top of the roof.  So the house was burning from below as well as above.