EUGENE MARAIS
That was Mr van Wyk.  I discussed the situation with Mr Botha and because I had a business and I was dependent on business from the public and large business enterprises, I decided that I didn't want to act in public as a member of the AWB.  In other words I didn't want to be visible, but I would make myself available for anything which he had to do for me - had for me to do.
	We thought this was a good idea, because at that stage the AWB had been so infiltrated by the security police that I thought there were more security police than others in the AWB.  I attended an AWB meeting in Richards Bay, incognito because I was a photographer and I went there without a uniform and I took photos and I looked like any other person attending.  It gave me the opportunity to be there.  During September 1990, Mr Botha approached me - excuse me?