MR KROMA
You see if you have asked me that question a few years ago, I would have asked the Commission to give me just about 30 minutes with each and every of those guys, just 30 minutes, that would be ample enough for  me, I  would have dealt with them.  But maybe now with - maybe also the question of political maturity saying to me that would not  be the obvious answer to the whole matter.
 But I happen to understand that you see with my case, this also happened when I  was detained in Johannesburg, that there were people who were behind getting me in there.  I know that Mngoma, Kurt Bouman, and the others, they were only stupid, there were nothing that they knew, they were very-very less effective, in fact people who have been in detention, who have been interrogated they will tell you that they are very glad when they are interrogated by Mngoma, because he was so stupid, there is nothing that he can be able to get out of you.
 What was being done, there were people who were using them and my problem is that those people who have been responsible for this, are now sitting in very high positions and we are pointing fingers to Mngoma and the rest of them and I think that is time that we can be able to get behind the whole truth and get those people.  Because to me they are the people who are suppose to come in front of the Truth Commission  as I am saying to you that there is nothing that Mngoma himself and  [indistinct] and the others did, they were just being given instructions that this - this is what you are suppose to be doing.
 I think we need to get at the bottom of the whole thing.