JOE MAMASELA
I was involved in the Mxgenge killing and we were about four.  And in that incident also I'm the one - my honourable learned friend Mr Booyens can tell you about that, that I did not even, I held the man down whilst he was ...[indistinct] and until one of my stopped me.
	And he can go further as to how I gave evidence there, that I was the one who was most sympathetic.  I was the one who ordered Nofumela to stop cutting the man's throat and I took the knife away from Nofumela, you can ask him.  I took the knife to the car.  
	Nofumela went berserk, he went to the car, he took a tyre lever and he came and beat the man and I took the tyre lever again, you can ask him.  So, it was not a new thing for me to get a fright when somebody was killed in that fashion, it was my nature.