NYAMEKA GONIWE
I could write a book about that, but I mean. if you know what has happened in the Eastern Cape during that time, the state security councils, the army working together with the police, it's a sort of combined thing.  Maybe each force giving backing to the other force, but I think the whole thing started at home.  I would start at home because I've traced Major Venter, from the time, how he came to Cradock.  Obviously maybe the then government was quite frustrated with the former head of the security branch in Cradock because he was so very casual and very unsophisticated in a way.  He lost all the cases against the community, so they were angry, the State was angry and they couldn't pin down Matthew in a way and they felt that this person was advising the community and they had to bring a better man, and I think the heart of the matter started with the security networks, I mean Venter really monitoring Matthew's movements.  Not him alone but also all the Eastern Cape, you know the Eastern Cape Security, the head of the then security branch would know who was then based in Port Elizabeth and of course, what I think and we have a picture of what happened, though we cannot prove it to the courts what actually happened, and I think that they might have used the death squad.  That's why we are hopeful that the Commission, whatever comes out from the De Kock Trial could shed light or what came out from the police bombing in Port Elizabeth, that case would shed light on what happened in the Eastern Cape during those days.  Because the fate of the PEPCO Three, the same tactics, the same strategies, were
EAST LONDON  HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
16 NYAMEKA GONIWE
used to kill.  The PEPCO Three vanished in May, on the 8th of May I think, and just shortly they were targeting the activists, the main activists in the Eastern Cape.