MR JANSEN
Yes, but the alternative Mr Chairman, is that at each and every hearing where these junior officers are, they will then be seeking that half an hour in 30 different hearings, instead of going to one hearing and each seeking their half an hour at that hearing, that is what the debate has been about.
	There has still not been a ruling on that, even though we have asked the original Amnesty Committee far back as 1997, to make a ruling on some of these issues.  I take it, and I certainly don't want to create the impression that I here want to side-track this hearing which really at the end of the day, seems to be about a jail break and nothing more, on issues in general.  All I am stating on record now, firstly, that I would be requiring of yourself and your Committee to make a ruling that I am not entitled to ask these questions here, because I can't be seen at another hearing saying well, there was the Commander of the Eastern Cape testifying about what happened in the Eastern Cape, and you know, you just let things go.
	Then I want a ruling about that point, number 1, that I am not allowed to go further than what is strictly the facts of this application, and secondly then I just want to place on record that this issue will be raised at a later stage and I can foresee that we will either be seeking Gen Van der Westhuizen or Colonel Van Rooyen's voluntary assistance in our application or we will have to compel them somehow.
	I have no other submissions in respect of that, because other than the purposes of asking about another operation, I have no other purpose here, thank you.