ADV DE JAGER
Isn't our main problem, if he'd killed Makeke, that was he's instruction or that was what's decided, let's not put it as high as an instruction, then it would be a different matter altogether.  My problem is, if he'd been, not ordered, if he'd been assigned or whatever or he volunteered to kill Mr Makeke, a bakkie is driving up, he doesn't even know who is driving this bakkie, he doesn't even know whether this man is wounded, and the shots should be directed at the driver because that's the target, weren't they totally reckless as to the possible victims that might have been struck by the bullets?  Isn't that the crux of a problem for amnesty here?