MR LAX
You see  my difficulty, if I could speak for myself, is based on Mr Madlala's evidence.  We are not dealing with your average lay person, we are dealing with someone who was the leader of the prisoners, who made representations on their behalf, who dealt with these kinds of things?  Do you understand, we are not dealing with somebody who was just an  uneducated somebody who didn't know what all of this was about?
	Whether he had a lawyer or not, is irrelevant and Mr Madlala has given evidence to that effect?