DR RANDERA
Okay.  Michael, I just want to follow up from what Mr Manthata was saying.  This issue of you were in the community, you heard some discussions about the Black Cats and  Comrades but you knew very little about them. Now as we travel throughout the country and people come to talk to the Truth Commission, to us, we often hear and particularly, and I don't want to sound as if I'm categorizing people into Black and White, particularly from members of the White community who say we never knew how bad things were.  Now, can you understand that yourself because here you are in a small community like Wesselton and I can only see as I drive past, in and out of Ermelo but it looks like a very small community, things are happening in your community.  People are dying, people are being shot at and often we hear that we didn't really know what was happening.  Can you understand that, the attitude that is coming through from the White community ?  They also did not understand what was happening.