MR DE KLERK
Firstly, Mr Chairman, it is my opinion that the applicant should receive amnesty.  Firstly, this matter happened quite a while ago and surely there will be some questions asked about exactly what happened and exactly how it happened.  That is something that we would expect in circumstances like this.
	It is clear that from the beginning when the applicant applied for amnesty he gave the same story and the golden thread came through until today.  It may be asked yes, why did Mr Ngobo testify regarding this matter if he weren't there but the same question may be asked why didn't the applicant implicate him then because there's no gain for him or loss for him to implicate Mr Ngobo at all.  Especially if he knew, very well, that according to him Mr Ngobo implied or testified in a certain way, falsely at the court in the sense ...[indistinct]