FERDINAND BARNARD
No, I didn't, I just did not want to join any right-wing organisation.  I was so naive that I believed that if the Government was involved it was also justified.  Another point that created this perception with me or strengthened it was that when I was recruited by Joe Verster, I went as to go for an ordinary job interview.  I went with a briefcase, with the qualifications that I had.  I had my matric certificate, I had legal subjects, I had various courses that I underwent in the police, some of them were quite advanced.  I underwent certain courses in Unisa, I had a BA degree, I took those qualifications with me and they didn't want to see it.  When I took it out, he said:  "No, well congratulations, you've got the job" and they did not want to see it, not him or Danie Phaal and then they told me:  "What cars can you steal?  What cars can you open and What weapons can you work with?"