ADV DE JAGER
I do not think we have got a problem as far as Skosana and Conrad's, they have acted on instructions.  Whether it came from, according to both of them it came, they acted on the instructions of Joe.  Whether Joe had instructions from up top is another matter.  He says, well, he has received, in his application he said he received instructions from Chris Hani.  It is not quite clear whether he received it personally, as far as the specific instruction is concerned, from Chris Hani or whether he received it via the message of Solly and I think you should address us on that whether you accept, in fact, that Chris Hani gave an instruction and that Solly was a messenger or whether Chris Hani gave the instruction to Joe personally and whether there, the instruction was to kill three people or one and that is the crucial difference and then the other difference, as far as the evidence is concerned that may be relevant, is whether he in fact took part in the attack itself, whether he was present.