ADV GCABASHE
Yes, this is where my confusion arises, because the question just before mine was on the assumption that Thabiso had been at the meeting.  And you hadn't been clear actually in your evidence earlier on.  So Thabiso's father, who is today opposing the application, attended the meeting.  You were at that meeting, and you heard him say that his son was involved in activities with the police, and that whatever his son was doing should not be associated with the family?