MR PRINSLOO
I could refer you to the case of - where they went to the St James church where the person involved, was just picked up at a taxi rank, he went to the St James church and there as it was stated, they indiscriminately shot at people who were just innocent churchgoers.
	If one were to look at the proportionality there and how it contributed to the struggle, while at that stage negotiations were already ongoing, and these people were killed in cold blood, 54 people were seriously injured and nine killed and the weapons that were used there and one looks at the proportionality, how could one compare it with what is held up to these applicants?
	One should look at the case of Amy Biehl for example as well, and here I can give you copies.  There didn't even appear to be an instruction in the case where she was killed.  It was simply that they wished to bring home the message that it was aimed against white persons.
	As a matter of fact, she was not even a person who was against that set up, she was serving that particular set up, and she was totally, hopelessly innocent.  She was killed.
	With respect Mr Chair, how could one at all draw a distinction as in the case with Froneman and Harmse and the person killed there, and the applicant?   I could refer you to the case of the applicant Botha and Eugene Marais, where the applicants who were members of - I can't remember the exact movement - that was in the case of Botha, Smuts and Marais, where the movement was under the command of Piet Rudolph, the Orde Boerevolk, yes my colleague corrected me here.
	In that case, the applicant said that for every white killed, they were told to kill ten blacks.  It was like a revenge case.  A white was killed on the beach and the instruction was given that ten black people had to be killed.
	The applicants in that case went with automatic rifles, they searched for a target, they were looking for a target, there was no specific target identified.  They encountered a bus and they cold bloodedly fired into the bus and killed numerous people there.  People whom they didn't even know whether they were Inkatha, ANC or whatever.
	They were killed there.  The first applicant, Botha's application failed because the person who was supposed to have given the instruction to him, didn't testify but the second and third applicants involved, did received amnesty.