MR WESSELS
Well we do know that those security breaches - well the first happened in the beginning of the year and the second one early in '89.  I think Mr Barnard said it was in March/April that this occurred.  Well let us accept it for now, it corresponds with evidence that has been led before and which was not disputed.  Well now you know that Mr Barnard was either suspended or discharged or placed on ice, is that correct?