MR PRETORIUS
I do understand it and I emphasise all I want to know is the nature, I will even be satisfied if my colleague, Mr Currin explains it to me, just broadly the nature of what it is.  In so far as paragraph 1 is concerned, if it is so that he has been tried and convicted, that is public documents so it is traceable and it is public documents.  I submit we can just know.   If my learned friend can just broadly indicate for us what the that operations was.