MR VAN ZYL
No, you know, Sir, let me surprise you, the five of us whose names I've just mentioned, did not even have contact with Joe Verster, we did not even have contact with the General at the end of the day.  We did not know what they were doing.  We did what we felt was right and we followed the instructions of our legal representative, Mr Piet du Plessis at that stage, and that is how it happened.