MR WESSELS
Yes, yes.  But we don't have that situation, that would have complicated the issue if there was two applications pertaining to the same factual incident matrix, and you have two versions, the one is full disclosure and the other one is not, then you have a difficult position.  But fortunately, in my submission, you don't have that situation here and therefore, it's not necessary to come to a conclusion that Webb's version is more reasonable than Verster's version.  Just look at Verster's version and judge it on its own and see, having regard to the fact that the weapon was to be obtained from the stores, that money was to be obtained from the budget, which all went through the  authorities, whether that  ...(intervention)