MR DE KLERK
Mr Chairman, I will agree with you on that, and I agree with Mr Lax as well on the basis of proportionality.  My submission on that can only be that to take into consideration the circumstances, being a person who has just been trained, receiving a firearm, being in that situation.  It is also true that the applicant testified, thinking back with hindsight, that maybe because of his youthfulness at that stage he would have maybe decided otherwise.  What I'm trying to say is that maybe his subjective decision-making process at that stage was influenced by all these factors and could have influenced him by a pre-emptive attack and by attacking people that may not have been the real culprits.