AZHAR CACHALIA
Chairperson, I must say that I was taken aback substantially when my witness said that he had guns, because it's clearly contrary to my instructions.  Fortunately, fortunately it was clarified when Advocate Sigodi brought that particular matter on.  But to, I would readily concede, and that is what I am saying, I would readily concede that there would be people there with the kind of arms that we're talking about.  The knopkierries and the sticks and whatever ...(intervention)