MR COETZEE
Mr Chairperson I would just like to place this in context.  The other members, or most of the other members to which my learned colleague is referring to were people who had existing work in the police, Coetzee from Region 6, for example, who served in State departments for a period of time and people who were recruited, I believe Mr Barnard's evidence is that he was not recruited from such a system where he had benefits as a State official or officer.