ADV MOTATA
If I may just interrupt.  In these two incidents in respect of Natie Gumede, that he was firstly investigated, and the question that, which arose largely even in cross-examination, that Mr Mbambo, why he was eliminating Gumede was that he must not testify against Mr Mbambo about this alleged stolen vehicle.  So I just want to know which of the two came first.  Whether it was the investigation, or it was the motor vehicle theft, alleged motor vehicle theft.