CHAIRPERSON
And in fact added to that, he didn't want to really disclose how many there were because he was apprehensive that he was going to be questioned about what these fellows were doing, those people that were with him so he was cutting down on this sort of thing and it's perfectly understandable, I mean you know, we're not sitting in an ivory tower, we from our experience here in this Committee has seen the extent at which justice has been frustrated through court cases on all sides, on the prosecution side on the side of defence, I mean really, one is just amazed every time to look at this sort of thing that was going on.