MR SNYDERS
Let us accept that that is his version, what I had said here in this thing, and that is the whole purpose of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it does not help that I am trying to suck lies from my thumb here.  This is not about Toekomsgesprek, this mentions whoever was involved in the Lowveld.  It's because the whole organisation was about Toekomsgesprek, so if Mr Snyders alleges that he was not there, then we shall say that is his statement.  I know where he was and I know what he did and that is that.