MR DREYER
Mr Kloppers, my problem with this entire construct and the chain of authority and command and the issuing of orders is the following:  you spontaneously testified in Afrikaans here yesterday and it is your mother tongue when you were asked for the first time what your attitude was regarding the allegation of the involvement of Hartzenberg and Viljoen, you used the Afrikaans words and you were pertinently asked by the Chairperson, do you think so or do you know so and your answer in Afrikaans was, and you can consult the record if you wish, your words were and this was the first time when you were confronted about it clearly I know it for a fact.
	That was an Afrikaans expression with a determined meaning.  It is when someone is an eyewitness to an accident and he sees something as an objective fact, and he observes it and you ask him after the time, do you know it, do you think it, are you reconstructing the facts, and he would say no, I know it for a fact, because I stood right next to the road and saw it.
	Then, later on in the day when you were once again cross-examined and once again confronted and peppered with questions regarding the possible involvement of Hartzenberg and Viljoen and the Chairperson put it to you sir, if you state these objective facts it means that you are incriminating other individuals and the potential exists that those individuals would have to answer regarding those incrimination and they have not been notified regarding that, then you came back and you said, no you think so, because joint meetings were held and so forth.
	All that I am asking you now is that I have sketched two phases in your answer to you, tell me are they correct?  Is it correct that you testified as such here yesterday?