MR MADLALA
When this happened, when Mbongeni tried to run, when Mr Harrington was trying to get him out of the van that's when Jama tried to stand up and run and that's where Erasmus pulled out his gun.  But he did not immediately follow.  But Mr Harrington was at the front running after
2A - 11.2	Jama/...
JUDGE WILSON	103	MR MADLALA
Jama, then thereafter it was me and another group.