TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Yes.  I left South Africa in 1986.  That was in December.  And the reason for me to leave South Africa was nothing else but I went into exile to see the African National Congress leadership, including PAC and the PCLA leadership in exile, because by then in Port Elizabeth, where I'm coming from, we had a problem with the members of the UDF and myself I was a member of the Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organization by then and, therefore, I would say I was one of the people who were