GIDEON JOHANNES NIEUWOUDT
As I can remember we mentioned the fraud.  I 
don't know whether it was at an earlier stage before Mr De Kock 
arrived or whether I mentioned it to General Van Rensburg or while 
Mr De Kock was present.  But what I can remember is General Van 
Rensburg told us that he was in a hurry because he had to go to a 
meeting.
	I can't remember exactly in detail what was said.  What I have 
referred to already is that three of these people were involved in 
Goniwe and I mentioned their names regarding that matter.