JUDGE MGOEPE
Sorry, Mr Currin I think the point which Mr Visser was trying to make is that, and I 
have that difficulty, you've mentioned the Ribiero incident, you've made another one and the witness again 
says "I have no knowledge", I don't know what it is that he doesn't know.  I don't know whether the witness 
is saying he has no knowledge or whether he is saying in terms of the long introduction that you made 
before you came to specific incidents, whether the witness is saying "I don't know that the Minister or the 
President knew"?