UNKNOWN
With respect, Mr Chairman, the context in which the evidence about Genl Van der Berg was given, was that Van der Berg was in charge of the security police at the time when he was stationed in Pretoria and that was many years before the Biko incident.  In fact, if one goes back to that would have been in 1965, that was 12 years earlier.
I don't - if my learned friend understood it that it was suggested that Van der Berg had a direct, a direct influence in fact, then I apologise.  It was certainly not our intention to convey that, but I 
with respect do not think that was conveyed.