MR PHOSA
I understand you but you see I have families here that say: "That person would be abusing this process if he's given pardon" so that it why I'm questioning you in spite of what you say.  I understand why you do it, it's your right in terms of the law but there are certain conditions and the families say: "Please try and expose that person, he doesn't deserve it", do you understand me? - now this is what I'm trying to do.
	Now you said de Kock - you think you're convicted ...[intervention]