MR KOOPEDI
Yes, that is indeed the point and that is why I tried to put these into categories in the event that a finding is made that there could have been such an order, the event that it is found that they may have been shot at, the order that came from van der Bank was a very clear one:  "Shoot if you are being shot at" and nothing mentioned about minimal force.  That is if that finding is made.  Yes.
	Now, he  - I'm still on Mr Mkosana.  He states that he was in the immediate vicinity of Mr Gonya.  So does Mr Gonya's evidence corroborate that part.  Mkosana said in his evidence he was the only person who could order Gonya to use his grenade launcher.  He however did not give such an order.  In my mind it means therefore that he is then not applying for amnesty for anything that Gonya did, particularly because he did not make that order.  He also goes further that his order, the order to shoot, was restricted to the crowd within sight, within his sight, because this was the crowd that was supposed to be storming them and firing at them, which means that the order to shoot was restricted to this crowd.  However, people were shot at, people who were not within this crowd.  It is therefore my submission that he's not applying for amnesty for people who were shot elsewhere, at other places, or by other soldiers, because this is not the order he gave.  I realise that perhaps on our part we have not been very helpful to the Committee in terms of determining who and how many people were shot at in that particular area.  It is simply because, with the documents available to us, I could only see a list of people who were killed, but not be able to tell who was killed at what stage and perhaps finally one should add that if I say I didn't do it, it means I'm not asking for amnesty for it, you can't ask for amnesty for something you say you have not done.  
	So my submission is that on all those instances where Mr Mkosana says he did not give an order, he should therefore not be granted amnesty for that and that is all.