MR J VAN ZYL
As I said, in my opinion that was a watered down version of the information we had.  Our information was not fatal evidence in the sense that the evidence would have been able to be led in court.  Because the evidence did not exist at that stage, in these conditions in which we lived at the time, because witnesses refused to testify.
	We had lots of evidence and the evidence corroborated each other, but there were meetings held by Mr Goniwe and company, sometimes after public meetings at which recruitment and fermenting of violence had taken place, which led to these acts of violence and damaging of state property.