CHAIRPERSON
And how are we going to know?  You see this Committee has a problem.  How do we deal with facts like that when we don't know, you see.  I mean it's always a possibility to advance an argument that we don't know this that and the other.  There are things which we'll never know.  We have to deal with the facts as we know them and unless we can prove a lie, which can throw some light on motive, then you reject all that evidence of one person or the other.