MR KNOETZE
Ja.   Mr Chairman, with respect, whether he grabbed it or whether he took it, the crux of the matter is, according to the evidence, that he, on his own initiative, saw to it that he got it in his hand, but even that isn't so important, what is important is that which he allegedly said, namely, "I will show you how to shoot", and that is what I'm about to try and indicate to be a falsehood.   The point, Mr Visser, is that for the first time yesterday this information was provided, or allegations was made, although these allegations are in opposition with evidence that was given in this court under oath and it is in opposition to what you said in your application as well as the other applicants.   I put it to you that it is a lie and that the clear difference is now made clear again between my client's application and yours?