MR WAGNER
Mr Shoke I understand, I understand that response, but I'm trying to get a picture of what was happening in Swaziland.  You referred the committee to what is called the Transvaal Structure and I'm trying to ascertain what this means.  What I know now is that apparently Mr Kasrils was the overall commander, that is on page 53 Mr Chairman, paragraph 6.4.1 and then Mr Nyanda or General Nyanda was the commander and then I'm know that you were somewhere around.  Can you help me with this Transvaal Structure, do you know how many commanders were there apart from yourself?