MR WAGENER
So that is thirteen months down the line.  I am referring you to what was the position in November 1985, exactly at the outset of this whole landmine campaign, so what Mr Tambo said what should happen or not thirteen months later, my submission to you, is of no consequence and no relevance to my argument here today and I still maintain that these gentlemen can give relevant, directly relevant and important evidence regarding the initial stages of this campaign in order for you to make the correct decision.  Thank you.