FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson, no, I do not know where the pressure came from, but that it was a large amount of pressure is true.  Mr van Zyl's got a specific type of personality, he is for example not a person, this is the way I summed him up, he is not the type of person who can be placed under that amount of pressure by somebody like Staal Burger.  I thought the pressure came from a much higher level, but he never made known a line of command to me, and he said that this comes from Staal Burger.
	At one stage I assumed this, because I knew how the system worked on their side.  He never told me this, he never reported to me concerning this.  He never made phone calls or he never discussed it when we were together, but I saw that there was a lot of pressure on him.  At one stage I thought that this pressure must come from a political level.