ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE
Well, in his evidence, I actually arrested him in Pongola because we actually received information because the police couldn't do anything.  I went undercover in Pongola and I pretended as if I was coming from Mr Sydney Mufamadi's office and at that time when I actually arrested Mdu close to about two hundred (200) soldiers in that court in Pongola because he went to Pongola because one of the members, as we know now, of the hit squad who were operating in Piet Retief, shot an ANC member in Pongola.  So, he went to court in Pongola to see his friend who was arrested in Pongola.  Now, the allegation that these people - maybe let me finish the incident.  I will go to the allegations and I will say why I'm saying it's allegations.  When Mandla Magudulela and Mphelele Malinga were killed by Mdu Msibi, again it was just chaos.  Politically we tried having meetings with the police, with everybody to say but can't anything be done, people are being killed and I must be honest with you, nothing was done.  Then we came to a stage where we called the President of the ANC to come to Piet Retief, Dr Nelson Mandela.  I think he came just a day before, it was on the fourth (4th) of September.  The day before he came another member of the community, Jusiah Thabede was shot through the window of his house, and as we understand, they were saying they wanted Mr Mandela to walk on top of his blood of his people.  Luckily Mr Thabede was not killed.  He sustained serious injuries.  He went to stay in a hospital in Johannesburg for about three weeks.  Now, this is Piet Retief.  Late in 1984 we then politically tried to manoeuvre, to find out because we knew that some people knew about what was going on and we actually, one lady who was deployed who fell in love with one of the killers, that when we first ... (intervention)