MR VISSER
Let's follow this up, let's follow this up.  You see, Jan Raath has come to this Commission to make a full disclosure and he has told the members of this Committee that he received an instruction which he decided to obey, which entailed that he left from Port Elizabeth in 1981 together with van Rensburg, du Plessis and Kondile and they went to Bloemfontein and at Bloemfontein they collected the car apparently belonging to the late Mr Hani and he drove that car directly from Bloemfontein in the direction of Barbeton, you heard him say that.