MR LAX
Well with respect, Sir, you yourself are not even sure when necklacing came into existence, you think it was in 1985.  We don't know, we haven't heard evidence from experts in politics to say this is the only time necklacing is used in the country.  We don't know where those videos were made, they may have been done in other countries and if certainly the evidence we've heard over the years in this Commission is correct, the police took footage from a whole range of places, put them in videos as way of indoctrinating people.  Are you saying he wasn't indoctrinated?  I mean is that the thrust of your question?  You're going to get to the point?