CHAIRPERSON
Yes.  I think it was Pat who, my recollection is that it was Pat who suggested that and who asked where these people who are attacking, come from and it was pointed out and then it was the other Dlamini, Mnini, was approached and he said he is not in favour of it because he would rather fight on their territory and defend, rather than attack, and that is why Dlamini didn't want to go and that is why he couldn't gather people from his area to support the attack because they preferred to defend.  That is what my understanding was.