MR VISSER
Yes, alright.  Now you gave us a period of time over which you say you were instructed to take part in the interrogation of Mr Kondile.  I don't want to talk about the period of time, I want to ask you, can you tell this Committee with some degree of certainty on how many occasions Mr Kondile was tortured as you explained in your presence by either yourself or anybody else, on how many occasions?