MR BERGER
Chairperson, I'm sorry to interrupt but it might become relevant later.  Just for the purposes of clarity, when my learned friend says: "My information is that it took two minutes for the group to cross the road" and so on, is this material that emanates that emanates from the South African National Defence Force, in which case one would then be able to use it in cross-examining such witnesses or does it come from a different source?