CHAIRPERSON
Yes see, he is an active participant in all respects.  I mean from the time when he is interrogated and to the time when a decision is taken to meet a particular kind of punishment.  He is an active participant and a decision maker as well as to why that kind of punishment should be meted out.  He continues to be actively involved in revoking a decision taken earlier on collectively, by the group.  Are you not dealing with a person who really is taking orders, stricto senso, do you understand our problem?