MR RICHARD
Chairperson the purpose of that evidence is this much, that while the answer is that prior to 1991 he was not working with the police, that's merely his ipse dixit.   Now we also know that in the course of the activities of a plant, a double agent, whatever one wants to call the person, it's a trade-off.  The person will have to give evidence to the South African Police in return for their trust.  That's how he would make his penetration and make himself useful.
     Now firstly, what information was he giving, which means per se that he's an informer. Number two what information was being sacrificed, and we go back to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's report, wasn't this one of those credibility operations?  So when I ask the question when did all these things happen it's critical to know.