MR NDIMA
So what I want to explain, when we were asking for these guns, we were doing this because we wanted it to appear that we also got this from them, although we also had our ones.
 But this White man said no, I must hear from Pretoria, we will meet the next day.  Now I said man, you are always postponing, procrastinating and people are dying, people are dying every day.  He said please be patient, let me just ask Pretoria because I am under Pretoria myself.
 So I said okay, I will see you tomorrow.  The following day he came back saying Pretoria said this war had not been declared legally.  The other nations can question it if they can give me guns because this war has not been officially declared.
 So I said okay if it has not been officially declared and then he said but they said I must give you two men who are very good shots.  Who know how to use a bullet, then they can tell you how this - you can trace the origin of a bullet so he gave me Barnard and Mr Loocke.
 Although Mr Loocke I never met, I never saw him.  It was always Barnard.