FERDINAND BARNARD
It was in Ponti, it was very high up, I think it was probably the 50th or 52nd floor.   I had a flat that myself and Lafras Luitingh used on the 35th floor, the 36th floor, that I myself rented, but I was given an instruction to go to another facility in Ponti.
	When I arrived there Lafras Luitingh was already there.  We sat down and spoke and it was there that he told me that I was going to be dealt with in a different way, that I will be applied possibly abroad, in foreign countries.