TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Yes, Mr Chairman.  It's difficult to explain.  I can just by indicating that never before I joined Vlakplaas did I commit any murders, stole cars, or anything to that extent, and never thereafter.  It was a war situation as I saw it, and it was a question of using the same methods that the enemy used, illegal methods, to achieve our goals, namely to try and prevent the total onslaught from succeeding, the revolutionary onslaught.