ADV MOTATA
May I interrupt you Mr Van der Berg, that is why I said we shouldn't speculate.  What you should bear in mind too in your submission, is that we know the version given by the applicant and he said when he questioned those people, what are you doing here, why are you here, they said go and ask your President.  That is what he said.
	Then we say whilst that happens and I want you to assist us because really, it is not just a simple matter, we are here to assist each other, please assist us, and that it is not a fact that I agree with you, but there was rumour already, rumour - that hearsay that he got from the neighbour, it had already spread, that is why the township and even Megacity was on flames the next day, because of the presence of the AWB.  Forget about the other people or whether the AWB had taken the Army base over.
	But they were housed there at some stage, that is all we know.  We don't know anything further.  So is there evidence before us other than your submission, which controverts that kind of evidence which we have?