ADV DE JAGER
While Mr Ford is busy, I want to refer to something at the bottom of page 151.  You are saying Nieuwoudt expanded and told us that
"The intelligence structures determined that discussions have already taken place between these people and members of the ANC, and this gave it a very actual dimension."
With this discussion is meant that it involved people who are in the process of defecting to the ANC, and they were regarded as ANC supporters, who were directly against combating the total onslaught.