RUSSELL ALLY
Yes.  I just want ask you one or two questions if you do not mind.  Before I ask the questions I just want to be quite frank and honest with you.  I know that what you explained now, the account that you gave of what happened to you and members of your family is a very sad and terrible story and a very tragic story to lose a brother in the way in which you lost your brother and a wife and all the consequences of that.  The context in which that took place as you mentioned and others also gave an account of this was this conflict between different groupings within one organisation.  We have heard many accounts now of the Mazimzims and Gadaffis and different explanations for their origins and what they did.  Their different positions, beliefs and so forth.
 One of the things that the Commission has to do is, on the basis of the statements which we get from people, we have to make findings as to whether people are victims of gross human rights violations or not and in many of the accounts which people give of violations, they also mention those who they believe they were the violaters, so caller perpetrators.  Before we make a finding it is the responsibility of the Commission to inform those who were 
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named as perpetrators in event that there will be adverse consequences for them if they are named as people responsible.  This also has implications for the whole question of amnesty.  You know that the Commission also has an Amnesty Committee which is specially there for those people who may have committed gross human rights violations to apply for amnesty if these events took place.  These violations took place as a result of the conflicts of the past.  What we have been hearing here, it is a very difficult and complex issue because on the one hand people are named as victims and in another context, they come up as perpetrators.  I have to point out to you that we actually have a statement here.  I am going to, because the person is going to be coming later, after you have actually given your account.  I think it is necessary for you to actually hear what the person says and, perhaps to ask for your response.   This person speaks about Vincent Mapai, but he also deals with assault of Mtolo, Philiman Sonto, Maposa, Vincent Mapai, but he also deals with the assault and the shooting of Emlangeni Solomon Sipho.  These are names that Dr Randera mentioned and he asked you if those names were familiar to you.  
 The person in the statement goes forward and continues and says that these people were abducted by the Mazimzim gang.  The people who were abducted were members of the Gadaffi group.  Now the names of the Mazimzim gang who abducted the victims were, there are a number of names and your name is mentioned as well.  Spankie Lesotho, Boy Lesotho, all from Khutsong and some other names I mentioned.  The person go on, the statement, to say that Solomon Maglangkeni was hacked with pangas before driving away to a 
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place where those who abducted were to be killed.  The victims were taken to a dam outside Khutsong.  However, before reaching the dam the combi and the van were stopped by the SAP.  According to the survivor, Vincent Maposi, the polices intention of stopping the two vehicles was to find out if the people they were looking for had been found.  The Mazimzim gang told them that they did find the people.  The policemen's names were as follows.  Siphisizwo and Steve Motabede of Khutsong Police Station.  
 The victims were taken to Skavene Dam just outside Khutsong.  The police accompanied the Mazimzim gang to the dam.  When they got there they started beating the victims with sticks, iron rods and pangas.  The members of the SAP were also beating the victims.  Vincent Maposi collapsed after they beat him.  He along, with Solomon Mlangkeni were loaded into van as corpses.  However, Vincent was not dead, he was just unconscious.  Solomon Mlangkeni died from a bullet wound on his head.  Is there anything that you want to say in connection with that statement?