MR MBANDAZAYO
Through you, Chairperson.  I think in evidence here in the bundle it is clear.  When Mr Dolo was asked many times about that and he did not mince his words when he said
"Look, we wanted to stop them coming to Sterkspruit and wanted to drive them away."
In a way I think it was, if I'm not mistaken, Mr Lax himself, when he said that in a way he wanted to create a liberated area.  That is what he said in evidence.  That"
"We wanted to drive them away as they were doing in the farms, that we wanted to create liberated areas where we can operate in order to launch further attacks."
Hence their aim he said that it was to repossess the land.
	Now coming to the question of proportionality.  Through you, Chairperson, I'm always, there's one point which I'm always having difficulty to address and one would always ask in proportion to what?  Because what I'm - my argument is always and again I will use the same argument that this question of proportionality it's my argument, I may be wrong, that it should be applied to the policy-makers.  The policy-makers are responsible for that.  
	For instance, if the authors of apartheid, if I may make an example, the Parliament makes but it's not always the case that legislatures are the people who are applying that, ordinary people on the ground were applying it differently.  But if you look broadly you find that this emanates from somewhere and the reason why they were that, they know that they are protected because this is covered.  And as such you cannot then punish those people who are applying it, saying look it must be applied to them.  That's my argument, that proportionality should be applied to the people, to the policy-makers who are responsible for that, not the ordinary foot-soldiers.