MR WILLS
Yes, that would be my submission in relation to the geographical area of Izingolweni, but I would submit that the, that that policy was in effect in places like Hammarsdale and Ermelo, much earlier than that, and I'll get onto those issues when I deal with them.  But clearly in regard to Mkhize and Mbambo who only really got involved in these activities in Izingolweni, that was clearly the case.  But Gideon Zulu went further than that, and this is confirmed in Luthuli's evidence, because Luthuli confirmed that whilst Luthuli wasn't at the meeting at Hlalankahle hall when this change of policy was communicated to the local people, Luthuli commented that he met with Gideon Zulu at a later stage, at Ulundi, where Zulu indicated to Luthuli that this change of police had occurred.  And that's documented I think in the statement of, I've got the reference somewhere in my argument and I can find it.
	There's an enormous amount of these so called indiscriminate attacks, and I don't intend to deal with each of them, I want to deal with them quite broadly, and I've listed them at page 14.  These, once these attacks started, there were more specific reasons given for them at certain stages.  You will recall that there was the incident of when some of the IFP hit, some of the IFP operative in Izingolweni were arrested as a result of an attack on the ANC leader Beki Ntuli's home.  They went to Court and there was a bail hearing.  The ANC leader Willis Mkunu gave evidence to the effect that, 
"... since these people have been arrested the violence in Izingolweni has dropped."
And then there was a meeting between Bhiela, Mrs Umbuyazi and the so called lawyer Gabela, that in order to persuade the Magistrate otherwise, the hit squads should be activated, and on that particular evening a lot of havoc was, they certainly did operate in Izingolweni.
	I think as well on that level, referring back to Gideon Zulu, there was that level of pride.  The evidence sort of indicated when Zulu was so furious about this attack, that he accused these well trained soldiers of not being able to do their jobs.  In fact it was the only time, in my going through the evidence of this time, that they were reprimanded.  They were never reprimanded for killing people.  I mean sorry, the only time they were reprimanded was for not killing people.  They were never disciplined for killing the wrong person or going, or doing too much in that regard, and I think that's quite an important point.