ADV PRIOR
No, I'm not saying that, with respect.  I'm saying that if we look at their version - I've made a submission that on the evidence it is certainly clear in my mind that the motive was robbery, but now we're looking at the applicants' version that they went there to kill white people, and I want the Committee to look at that in the light of the submissions that I make, that it was unlike the incidents, for example St James Church where there was an attack and a withdrawal.  There was an interplay between the people there.  And Mr Manensa who I submit was a very good witness and a reliable witness gave compelling evidence about the plea, she begged for their lives and she made it abundantly clear who these people were.  Despite that they went ahead and killed them.
	And another feature which is also compelling is the judgment of Mr Justice Dlodlo where he says in his view they must have known their actions were unlawful because they commanded the African people, the black people there to turn away so as they would not be able to identify them.