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practical situation that acting for these people, we know in which incidents they are involved, but Mr 
Mpshe does not, for the simple reason that an applicant may not have mentioned the name and he informs 
us that he hasn't read through all the amnesty applications, so he is completely in the dark.
	What we wish to suggest by way of assisting if we can, is that my attorney should draw up a list 
of incidents of all the incidents in which our applicants are involved, for example the Nietverdiend incident 
and the Zero incident and whatever and then give a list of names of our clients who are involved in those 
incidents to Mr Mpshe, so as to make it possible for him to give us 19(4) notices.  
	May I just, while we are on the issue of 19(4) issues, make our position clear.  We have in fact, 
my attorney has in fact told Mr Mpshe it is not necessary to give us the
notices and then we reconsidered.  The problem with that Mr Chairman, is that it is one thing to know that 
you are implicated, but it is another thing to know on what evidence.	We had to retract that offer and 
you will see that in the letter which we've handed up to you which you ...(intervention)