MR VISSER
Well Chairperson, there are also other permutations, this is not the only possibility.  It could have been considered that he knew nothing about information gathering per se.  For example.  Chairperson, with great respect, may I just say this.  We tend during this hearing, and it's happened before and it's happening again and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, to stray so far from what is relevant, with great respect, that what is happening is that the witnesses are getting more and more confused as to what he's supposed to come and tell the Committee.  Here is a witness who is a good example, who tells you that he had no personal knowledge about these people and their recruitment, and look at the questions he's got to feel, Chairperson, and one cannot help but ask, what has that got to do with his application?  With great respect.  I don't want to say anything more than just to draw your attention to the fact, Chairperson, that perhaps we could go forwards perhaps a little bit more expeditiously on relevant issues, rather than taking the time on irrelevant issues.  But I take it no further.