MR PHOSA
I was still busy explaining myself Mr Chairperson, and I'm having difficulty coming across to you in the first place.  I'm just saying that when those issues were raised and he was asked to say about a,b,c, how do you say: "what is the relevance of that"?  Nobody else did so I assumed that I would be allowed also to ask now what the relevance of that was because it couldn't have ...[inaudible] gratuity, there must have been a reason why it has been given, you can't waste your court's - the Commission's time.  There must be a reason why it's given.  If the Committee knows why, I don't.  And I'm now asking on behalf of those who have asked me to come here - and I'm sure a number of others, what the relevance of these State Security Councils are.  And if the Committee knows I can ask for an answer, then I won't ask the question but I do seriously want to know.