MS THABETHE
Madam Chair that's precisely my point, that there wasn't proof as such and there weren't investigations conducted to prove, but maybe let me explain what my difficulty is.  My difficult is that we are faced with the applicants who were carrying out an order.  Maybe if we were faced with the commanders I would have argued better on behalf of the victims so as to say that there wasn't much investigation done, and probably the basis for having reached the conclusion that they were spies really lacked the relevant investigation that had to go through, and nevertheless, also it was not verified as it was the principle of the ANC to verify such issues.