UNKNOWN
Mr Chairman, they have a tendency to write a 
lot and to talk a lot.  I'm saying it with respect, I don't mean 
anything strange.
	Then I want to refer to when this conspiracy developed.  
Evidence was given by Mrs Beyers who said that she and saw Mr 
Walus in July 1992, he was sitting outside Mr Mandela's house.  
Mr Chairman, if Mrs Beyers' evidence was to be accepted as 
correct then this murder list is not necessary because Mr Walus in 
1992 already knew where he was living, it was not necessary for a 
murder list.   
	If Mrs Derby-Lewis was to be involved, if she knew about 
the conspiracy that then she had to put Doctor Mandela's name on 
that list.  That was unnecessary if that evidence is accepted as 
true.  Mrs Beyers with respect, if you look at her evidence and 
look at what she said, she say can't say in which newspaper she 
saw Mr Walus, from which point this - from which angle this 
photograph was taken, the time frame when it happened, why she 
did not go to the police with this information and under which 
circumstances she went to the police with this, except that she 
remembered that she conveyed it to Mr Mandela during a 
function.  	With respect Mr Chairman, if there was a bakkie like 
that, she made a wrong identification.
	If the Committee would accept this then it would support 
the versions of the applicants, that they did not have the murder 
list.  And then it would also support Mrs Derby-Lewis' version, if 
she had already known where Doctor Mandela was living and 
further details.
	Honourable Chairperson, while I am dealing with Mr Derby-
Lewis, there is also the testimony of the Mr Clark which cause 
quite a stir, which suggested that there was a plan that they 
would pay the defence Mr Derby-Lewis.  With respect, those 
allegations cannot be true and any possibility that it could be 
true.  With regard to this I would like to contend that he was a 
very open witness who was cross-examined by Mr Bizos 
...[intervention]