MR VISSER
Page 161 Mr chairman, of volume 2, the involvement of the South African Police in both the former Rhodesia and former South West Africa in a military support role, to the Rhodesian Army and the South African Defence Force, necessitated training them in purely military tactics and techniques.  In neither of these situations, they were expected to act as civil police.  Every contact between them and their opponents, led to a bloody shootout, with the result that ordinary civil police functions fell by the wayside.
	The ordinary policemen drawn from the ranks of the police, from the whole country involved in these guerilla warfare and counter-insurgency activities, where he in fact had to kill or be killed, became progressively more accustomed to this type of conflict and the ways, means and methods utilised in combat the enemy and it goes on Mr Chairman.
	It is those ideas that Mr Du Preez says.  In 1979 you were transferred to Port Natal.  In what section, or I will lead you in this, originally you served in the Church Section.  Was this at the desk of the ANC or what desk was this?