MR MARTINI
Now that was minus 7 which he added back to the 3 from the Omar project and handed back the R10 000 in total to one called Nick, which if you recall the evidence, was the new Co-ordinator.  That's on that issue.  I ...(indistinct)  I've got Bundle J, Chairperson.  If I may carry on on another point, just to get back to the proportionality issues as well, Chairperson, one of the issues Mr Bizos raised was, and I say there's no validity in that argument applicable to Mr van Zyl.  It might have application to maybe Mr Verster the General, why did Mr van Zyl, why didn't they consider other options?  That was, with respect, not their function.  Their function was, if you recall the hierarchy of how the CCB operated, was go out and do a pre-study for the elimination of Mr Omar, not come back and tell us if we can't, instead of eliminating him, what else can we do to him, with respect and at the end of the day Chairperson, you will recall that that decision to eliminate after all the pre-studies, could be stopped, one need not have gone ahead with that plan, so possibly that argument may have some relevance, given the structure of the CCB, to Gen Verster.  If there is any relevance in that argument, the only person who could have made those assessments would have been at the higher levels.  To suggest Mr van Zyl's function was not to go and verify the information, the undisputed evidence was it went, the information was sent through to the Co-ordinator who had his own links because of the secrecy of the organisation, to Trevits, Military Intelligence and all sorts of other information, so it could never have been expected of the foot soldier to now say:  "Well, I've received a mandate to put a bomb in the ELC, but I'm going there tonight and you know what, I'm going to throw paint over it instead."  It wasn't his function.  He was not authorised first of all to throw paint, he was authorised to blow up the hall, he was authorised, on Mr van Zyl's evidence, to monitor Minister Omar.  So with respect, that argument cannot have application to the foot soldiers, as I've put it.