FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson, during my detention under Section 29, they appointed a legal team, I had no control over this.  After my release from the Section 29 detention and the Harms Commission that followed on that, the situation continued, people were appointed to me.  It was not Mr du Plessis them.  Then at a certain stage, I cannot exactly recall, that was approximately before the Webster post-mortem inquest took place, I had a discussion with Mr Calla Botha, who then told me that I must get away from those people because the organisation's controlling them.  He then introduced Mr Pietie du Plessis to me and I then decided to work with him from them on.