MS THABETHE
Yes, Mr Chair, thank you.  Mr van der Westhuizen, in previous applications, not necessarily this incident I have realised a certain pattern with the Security Branch people.  What would happen is that someone
would be abducted or arrested illegally, would be questioned, okay, let me start afresh, someone would be abducted right, with the help of an askari or an informer, right, and then he would be brought in or she would be brought in, interrogated and it would either be a situation where she cooperates or he doesn't cooperate.  Now take for example in the Deon Cele matter, M.K. Tekere and the Shabalala and Ndaba incidents, it turns out that the people who were brought in for interrogation, they were interrogated, they didn't want to cooperate and eventually they were killed, to protect also the askaris or the informers that were involved in the arrest.  Now, in your evidence, you have indicated, okay, is that a correct reflection or is that a correct way that the Security Branch worked, would you say?