SALLY SEALEY
I think that is quite true.  I think that there were many methods used by the Self Defence Units to get weapons.  For example, there is an amnesty application which will be coming before the Truth Commission in regards to raid on the Kliprivier Police Station, where Self Defence Units robbed the police station of their arms.
	There are also cases for example, Polla Park, where it's quite true, policemen were robbed of their firearms.  So I think it was actually a policy that policemen, and for that matter security personnel of any sort, were actually attacked for their firearms.
	I think there were a number of methods that were actually used.  For example, in the very beginning when Self Defence Units were set up obviously people in the community didn't have access to firearms and the Independent Board of Inquiry during its research and its investigation has come across a lot of evidence where originally a lot of criminals were encouraged in the beginning to join Self Defence Units because they were the people that had the firearms.
	And I think we are now - the legacy of the crime and violence that we have now is the fact that many of those people that became involved, once the structure fell away they were left to their own devices.  So I think that is a problem.  I think it is quite true that as you say the police were actually attacked for their firearms.