MR VAN ZYL
Chairperson, it is how it happened, either the guys left the room or they must have been in another part of the room where they were talking and we formed a group in another part of the room.  This is how we worked.  The only thing I am saying here is that the submission in my statement that it was done in the presence of these persons, was not factually correct.  If one draws the inference that they knew of it, that inference is incorrect.  That they were indeed present during the cell meeting in the same room, that is true, yes.  And I have no reason to sit here today and to deny that they were not there if they were there and sat in on the project discussion.