TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  I would just mention in Security Police Headquarters the explosive desk fell under Section A4, and at the time it was Lieutenant-Colonel Frans van Eeden, who's left the police as a colonel I believe, and Captain P J Hattingh, Paul Hattingh, which at a stage was colonel.  I don't know whether he's still in the police.  They would be the experts at Security Police Headquarters.  On each branch one of the Security Police members would be sent on an explosives course for three months, basically to inspect the mine dumps in these areas, see to it that all the explosive dumps at the mines in the area - basically to see that all rules and regulations as far as explosives were concerned is complied with, and whenever explosives were transported the vehicles and the red flags were shown in the right manner.  So each branch had its own so-called explosive expert.