CHAIRPERSON
I think Mr Kahanovitz when he was dealing with proportionality, conceded that persons acting under orders, if somebody is acting under orders, that does have an effect on the inquiry relating to proportionality, but then he stressed the point that these particular applicants, including Mr Barnard, had the opportunity of election, to say:  "Well look, no I'm not", they weren't in the same situation as the soldier in some sort of regiment in the Defence Force.