MR DEHAL
In the nature of things that's usually how it goes, my experience tells the same.  I'm levelling my analogy in comparison and pitching it on the basis that it may well be that the person who took the applicant's statement may well have made notes and if you recall, the applicant at one stage said he came back later with a statement and he said "sign" as though he had taken notes, went back, formulated the statement and brought it to the applicant and where both Alzina and the applicant who says "we did not read our respective statements we signed it."  I'm saying at that level to the extent that the applicant is believable, indeed Alzina is believable.  Now that is where the difficulty begins.  The versions between Alzina and the applicant.
	I must begin by conceding as I've done already that there are difficulties at that level, I cannot for one moment stand here and say you must believe the applicant against Alzina, there is a ring of truth in both their versions but I ask you, Mr Chairperson, to look at it in this way.  What motive would the applicant have to come here and lie?  What motive would the applicant have to come here and lie?  He's served his time, he knows that if he comes here and says that on the basis as most ANC or politically motivated applicants before TRC are doing, "listen I went there, I had an agenda, I had instructions, I executed my instruction and I did it coldly, I had no difficulty with that", the probabilities of him getting amnesty would be all the better?  Now I have canvassed that with him, he's again and again said to me "listen, it was self-defence".  It seemed to me that the deceased on the applicant's version had not chased him, the applicant and the applicant did not respond by stabbing him, it would have been inevitable and conceivable that at some future foreseeable event, the ANC, through the applicant would have executed an agenda to eliminate this deceased and but for this event it just became earlier.