MR VISSER
The male person, alright.  Fine.  Now a strange thing that I want to ask you to tell the Committee about, is that Mr Jimmy Mbane stated, or it was put on his behalf, that on this day when Ms Kubheka was taken to Winkelspruit, he slept on the veranda in that building and he says that on that particular day he was going to bed, or he went to bed while Ms Kubheka was being interrogated in the storeroom at Winkelspruit.  What do you say about that?