AZHAR CACHALIA
Quite clearly that is the position Chair, but I just want to put him in the context that he understands what we're dealing with.  In any event Mr Ndlovu, you said that you went down and you then came up, I want to put it to you why did you come up from the river again and why didn't you go along the river in one or the other direction and avoid the whole, as you put it, incident?