HILDA PHAHLE
Well, George, as I say, we lived on lies, I read that, we lived on lies.  When they raided us, whenever they raided us, they would say have you heard from him, and we would say no.  Then they would tap the phone and
say "die ding praat, jong, julle lieg" - (this thing talks, man, you are lying), which meant that our phone was tapped.  He was getting in touch with us all the time and were able to, but we would not call him by his name.  We had to somehow get in touch with him somehow. He would phone us, but when he ultimately settled with Lindi now, there we now had direct contact with him.