MR KNOETZE
And then regarding the application, page 9.  If I can refer you to the top paragraph.  It reads as follows:  "Regarding the roadblocks and the shootings, I received my instruction from Kloppers and Deon Martins, although the first mention played the leading role.  If I can make it clear regarding the shooting, it is actually Etienne Visser as the messenger and through him I received the instruction".