MR VAN RENSBURG
Prejudicing his credibility, that is the only point I'm trying to make regarding that, yes.
	Regarding then the motivation if we stay with the second applicant for the moment, I'm not going to argue or waste this hearings time on that matter, I'd merely like to suggest that at no stage did the second applicant convince or was convincing in his answers when he was asked regarding the motive for these killings.  He certainly did not make a logical connection between the killing of the witches and the area or Venda becoming ungovernable.  He certainly gave no logical answer to make the connection how the real enemy, namely apartheid, could be fought by killing the witches and in that sense I would just argue that he did not persuade this hearing in my view that the killings was in fact politically motivated.  That argument would by and large also holds true for the first applicant who in my view was an even weaker witness than the second applicant.  It is clear from his evidence that he blatantly lied on his form, his application form, at least regarding to his age and who knows what else.  It is clear that he was the leader, the chairman of the meeting and it is therefore unlikely that his actual participation in the killing and the burning was so small.  I would suggest that as I've put to him that we have here again a situation where he is trying to mitigate his own involvement in the whole incident and it is also illustrated by the fact that he totally omitted to take this hearing into his confidence regarding the assault, GBH, that took place on that specific day.  
	The first applicant was also not convincing in his explanation as to how the killing of the witches would fulfil any political aim to say the least and in that sense I would conclude that his motivation for this killing was in fact not political, it was probably witchcraft related and the anti-witchcraft feeling was high at that stage which I also plan to illustrate with evidence in a later case but it is also important to take into consideration at this stage the aspect that the learned Chairperson has raised, namely that the killing of the witches has actually not stopped immediately after the election took place and therefore we've got to deduct that it was not politically motivated that it is some other reasons, cultural reasons or purely fear, jealousy, all these reasons could have played a role and I suggest that the evidence rather a point into that direction mainly because the witnesses one after the other struggled to make the connection between the political aim and the killing of the witches.
	To sum up then, I'm of the opinion that these two persons, the applicants, and that is my instructions to request such a finding from the hearing should not qualify for the amnesty as they have applied for.  That is all, thank you Mr Chairperson.