CHAIRPERSON
On the evidence we have, Gold was stationed at Pietermaritzburg, van Zyl was stationed at Ladysmith, Visser in Soweto, the person that's been involved, who has been killed, in the Rand area he operated or he came from there.  So clearly, Mr Gold saw this man for about an hour or two hours while he was still alive, van Zyl drove with him from Johannesburg, they didn't know him, on all the evidence we've got so far, and unless you've got evidence that they in fact knew him and they knew who the handler was, we're speculating about it and the witness who has to tell us more about it is Visser.  Obviously they say "we don't know".