MR MALAN
May I just ask one last question?  I can understand that one needs to look at the different perspectives.  Are you suggesting we should totally disregard all evidence by Kuala?  The question was put to you in the beginning, what might a possible motive be?   You simply said speculation.  But we have that evidence too before us at the moment and that's basically not contested by the applicant, except it's traversed by his own version in a sense.  But all the evidence is before us, if we are to disregard the inconsistencies there, what do we make of the other evidence which still stands?