FERDINAND BARNARD
Mr Chairperson, it's actually very strange, I cannot say it was directly the following project, some things happened in between, but I would like to testify what happened, but to complete the McQuillan incident, in February 1989 he contacted me, his first excursion to London was in October 1988, this was in February 1998 and after I was told that he is the devil, I mustn't go close to him.  He contacted me, he phoned me on the South African time and he said he was in Athens in Greece and that he had very important information from the London network, if I was interested in it and amongst others he placed it on my pager that:  "It's in your own interests".  Before I called him back, I reported this to Lafras Luitingh.  He told me that I must stand by and a few minutes later he called back and he told me that I must phone McQuillan on this international number and find out what he wanted.  I did this.
	McQuillan then reported to me that members of the Irish Republican Army, it was also a family member of his, had a person with them, Alvaro Figerido, who was an Angolan Informations Serviceman, I do not know if he was part of the Intelligence or not and he had in his possession a document with a three or five year plan between Angola, Cuba and Russia against the Republic of South Africa.  This was a plan over three or five years and amongst others, maps that indicated training camps of the ANC in Angola, of which the South African Government did not know.  I received this information telephonically and I then again conveyed this to Lafras Luitingh telephonically.  He then told me that I must wait at the phone, phone McQuillan and wait there.  
	After the phoning, he phoned me back in about two hours, that was now Lafras Luitingh and he told me to ask McQuillan to find out where he is and that he must come back to South Africa and come and book into an hotel here and give me a contact number.  He still had my pager number.  He had to contact me and then I would come and see him.  All these costs would be covered and he would also be paid for his trouble.  I conveyed this to McQuillan and he made himself willing and he then flew over.  He contacted me shortly afterwards.  He was in the Johannesburg Millpark Holiday Inn.  I went to go and see him there after I had a meeting with Lafras Luitingh.  I cannot recall how much money he handed over to me in an envelope.  
	I went to go and see McQuillan in the hotel room.  I debriefed him as thoroughly as possible.  I also made notes.  I also handed over the money to him.  While I was with McQuillan in the room, I received a page.  Lafras Luitingh paged me.  I phoned him from the hotel room and then he told me he's in the shopping centre in the Holiday Inn, I think it was called Metal Box.  I then had to inform McQuillan that I was going to withdraw and that other people were going to come and see him and he had to wait in the room.  I mentioned it to McQuillan.  He was not very happy about it.  He wanted to add that I had to remain behind, but this was my instruction and after Luitingh told me that if I leave the hotel, I must go to the roof parking, he will meet me there.  I did this.  I went to the roof parking area and provided him with all the information.  He made a phone call to somebody and I think he gave me two or three thousand rand and he told me that all the heads are very glad.  This was my production bonus.  He gave me the money but he told me not to have any contact with McQuillan again.  I then withdrew.
	At a later stage however I asked McQuillan, as we had contact with each other on a weekly basis, how things worked out.  He was very satisfied.  He said:  "Yes, we scored a few marks"  The documentation that was referred to was given or handed over, but he did not want to give me any further details.  I then received pages from McQuillan again, five or six in a row and at long last I decided not to listen to what Luitingh told me and I went to go and find out what McQuillan wanted.  He then told me that he was once again tasked by the people to go back to London.  He acted as a connection between the people in the IRA, Figerido on the other side and the two agents from South Africa.   The same people who went to go and see him in the Holiday Inn room were two white men and these were the same people who met him in London.  The meeting took place in London and after the meeting, they gave each of his contacts 500 pounds.  He said that was a large amount of money.  He did not tell them exactly how much.  This was in pounds that was paid over for this documentation which Figerido had in his possession.  He was not very satisfied about that first meeting.  This is now the first meeting between Figerido and the IRA people and the agents on the other side and they wanted to exclude him from any other further dealings and I said:  "Well, I can't do anything about it, it's out of my control" and afterwards he spoke to his people and they informed him that Figerido was tasked initially he wanted to get political asylum in South Africa and he was then convinced to go back into the system from where the CCB will then task him for further projects.  What they were, I do not know and if they materialised, I do not known, but at more than one they showed their satisfaction for what we did.