TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Of course.  I had stayed with my gran for many years prior to Lennie - well, since I was a young boy, and we lived out in Isipingo Beach.  And since living with my gran I moved into a flat of my own, and often Lennie would come to study, and to - sometimes when I went to visit my mum he would come to me and say, "Listen, you know, I just want to cool off," and of course Lennie was never a person of many words, so I did to a certain extent understand what he was implying.  But we never believed that he was heavily involved in - or deeply involved in politics until the Security Branch started appearing.  And when all this started - when the Security Branch started coming and harassing us fortunately not many people knew that Lennie had another brother, and so I was - to a certain extent my place was almost a safe haven for him until later on, when he had to move on because of - there's again a few circumstances that came around where my mother confided in somebody about the plight of these - of course for one the families being harassed, and of course looking for Lennie.  And so I got home one afternoon - one evening, and there was this person there trying to talk to Lennie about this - you know, about giving himself up to the Security Branch, and apparently he said he knew people in the Security Branch, and he would make things easy for him.  And of course Lennie was adamant, because he would - it meant he would be implicating his comrades, and that was the last day that Lennie stayed with me.  The next morning he packed up and off he went, and then he was living wherever he could.