MR NORTJE
Yes, I was present.  And when Mr De Kock gave his evidence, I just recalled that he did speak to Mr Duli on the side, and my inference that I drew was that afterwards, what I had heard from him and what he had told me, I know there was a separate discussion between Mr Duli and Mr De Kock, but Mr Duli did not want to speak before anybody else, he wanted to speak to Mr De Kock apart and what Mr De Kock says happened there, I recall that it happened there.