MRS KOTZE
It is very difficult for me to answer that question, you see, because I didn't see the man on an ongoing basis, so it is very difficult for me to say this was the moment.  And I think for him as well, because he doesn't remember so well, it is also not easy for him to say this is the moment that it started, because stress is something that develops gradually and people are very often not aware when they are suffering abnormal stress.