LAURENS MBATHA
We had actually members - Madam, I must start in the ...[indistinct] area, it was an area at that time when I started preparing my structures, those members were picked up, severely tortured, kept in cells.  I can refer to one old man from the very same area who can relate his own personal experience, who went through a terrible torture - sharing his experience with me.
	Hence as a result when you have gone through their hands, that was the point at the time of all the comrades who were tortured by the security branches of Bophuthatswana that they don't like to go through that experience again.  That was the type of situation in the area, the element of fear.  I had a contact member in the ...[indistinct] area Madam, who also basically because of my visits in the area  because at that time it was the restructure - the structures there, the member also subjected to interrogation, picked up.  Marches actually Madam, like I'm referring to, were stopped, you could not hold those marches.  
	And in terms of their torture system Madam, if I might openly say it, they were really good at it because all those people who have gone through it ...[intervention]