TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Thank you very much.  Thank you very much for having this opportunity to come to this Commission, especially to come here and relate my story.  Although I am getting old, I have forgotten other things, but I still remember others, although I might have forgotten some.  But what I will emphasise on, I am going to relate a 1987 incident on March 23rd, when I was arrested on that day.  But what I can't remember, it's when I was released.  I have forgotten the date on which I was released.  I was sent on the 22nd.  It was in April.  On 22nd of April I was sent to my children.  My children are people who were outside.  I was asked to go and fetch my children from outside at the station in Umkomaas.  Somebody just made a telephone in the morning.  It was my neighbour.  My neighbour said I must go and fetch the boys because they were in danger.  I stood up, and this person took me by car.  I went to Umkomaas Station.  This person said I will be able to recognise him by what will be written on his face, which is a Mobil cap.  It was written Mobil.  That's how I will greet this person.  It wasn't for the first time, I was very used to doing these things.  As I was still waiting at Umkomaas Station the first train passed.  I got out of the car.  When I got out of the car there was a car that was waiting at Umkomaas Station.  It was white, but I don't know the model of the car.  I went to the station and I sat down.  Just within a minute, it was a long minute, this boy he came with another boy, a young boy.  When I grabbed this boy, greeting him warmly, I saw this other boy.  That's only when I recognised, "Oh, are you with another boy?"  The other one was saying, "Oh, I know you.  But I know you, Mama."  I said, "No, I don't see you."  I said, "The secret - the rosary secret I am not going to talk about it because you are with somebody else," and I left.  I went to phone the person who had asked me to come there.  I said, "I didn't get the banana."  But when this other boy went to notify the other people in the car - it was a coloured and Special Branch Mbatha and this boy, but I didn't know the fourth person.  While I was on the phone telephoning, to say, "I didn't get the banana," I heard a lot of sirens, car sounds, and I am not going to get on at Umkomaas Station.  I took the station at Mkabeni.  I was going to catch a taxi at Umgababa.  I went to Umgababa.  When I arrived at Umgababa I got into the taxi.  It was still early, it wasn't at night, and I arrived at home very early.  When I arrived at home there was a boy who was also my child from on the other side.  I said, "There's something I didn't like, my child, which I saw at Umkomaas," and I explained.  "But I don't know what happened.  I can't explain this."  He said, "If you are going to be called by God," he said there are so many of these things.  While we were still staying there at home, it was at about eight, it was the story of Sigidi we were listening to on the radio, boys knocked.  "I really don't like this thing, my children.  I don't want you to sleep.  I think you'd better be here with me.  I am old.  I don't want you to sleep here, the three of you, because we're going to be on fire right now.  There's going to be trouble.  You shouldn't sleep here."  And they were free.  I tried around to go and get a car so that they could go somewhere.  I tried to phone other people.  Mrs Mxenge wasn't there, because she used to help me.  I could phone her any time of the night.  She used to send children, and she would do what I needed.  Now Mrs Mxenge was dead, so I tried to phone other people, but I couldn't get a car, and we slept.  We slept very late.  They were still singing for me, singing all those songs, the songs from outside.  There were two guns, the workers iron, and the hand grenade.  It was on me.  It was under the bed.  I was sitting on it so that when there was any sound I would kill myself.  I said I was too old, "I am not going to play with the boers, I'll just kill myself."  When the third boy arrived I said, "Here, my child, because these two are already having something, they are holding something, and you are not holding anything."  They slept in the small room.  At about half past one, if I am not mistaken, or quarter to two, I heard a loud sound noise, a calling.  It was said, "Trifina Jokweni, open up with all the terrorists you've got inside."  They were fast asleep.  When I tried to get up I saw the door was wide open.  They kicked it and opened it.  At the front there were burglar guards.  There was a huge padlock.  When I woke up I realised that we are already dead, we are gone.  I saw there was one of my child who was not very well, he was sick.  I said, "Raise up your hands" and he got up with the hands, and I was inside the house.  This other police outside was like shouting at me, saying, "Why don't you put on the light?"  I said, "I can't find the matches."  I tried to find the key.  I was trying to wake this up by delaying.  So when I opened the door I got out.  Before I got out I hit the door.  These kids got up.  I think they were already up, because the word that I heard is - Vusi said, "Mama, what are these dogs saying?"  That was the last word he said.  I managed to get out, and I tried to evade.  Them took me and lied me down.  They put their gun on me here, on my upper chest.  There was shooting, there was fighting.  The police are fighting and my boys were hitting, but my boys were hitting with a different metal.  I could hear my own metal.  I could hear also the South African gunfire.  It was a long time while this fire was going on.  I came out with a nightdress.  I just had a petticoat, a very small petticoat underneath, because they were boys, and I put a thick nightdress on top.  I didn't put anything, I just had slippers on me, and the hat for hiding my bald head.  When the firing was going on the firing went on for a long time.  When I heard the last fire I could feel it, it was the last fire from my children, my children had run out of their fire.  These other ones started shouting, and the boers were shouting.  But I could hear a little bit, but I don't understand English very well.  I don't understand English very well.  One of them said, "One of ours has been hurt.  One of ours has been hurt."  The police were saying that.  I could hear in English, although I don't know English very well.  And then another boer he threw something inside the house.  That's a thing that exploded.  When the machine from our side was silent I realised that was their death.  But one of the senior had a gun on top of me.  I thought that was my death.  I tried to rise up and jump.  I wanted to ululate because I saw my soldiers were dead.  That's when this other boy, this other boer, turned around and shoot me, and I hit amen, I wanted to die, but I couldn't die at that stage.  God didn't want me to die at that stage.  They took me there.  My other child was sick.  They took both of us in the car.  They put us across the road.  When we were across the road there was another old man who is a cop.  They took out.  My child said, "Mama, are they going to kill you?"  I said, "That will be better if they kill me rather than going inside, because I know they will torture me, there will be a lot of problems.  I would rather die now than have to go through the problems they'll put me through."  They took me.  They took me to a police station in GG.  They found something on your - the sack that they put on your head and suffocate you.  They drove with me for a long time.  I was the only one, and two policemen.  For a long time.  They had handcuffed me.  When they arrived at GG they took off the handcuffs and handcuffed me from behind tightly.  They took me for a long time.  They were from Umlazi.  It's only the Sunday morning that I was in Amanzimtoti.  I didn't know where I was.  And we arrived there in the morning and they didn't even open anything.  These police did all the cruel things to me.  They did everything to me.  There was an African police who was Doyisa.  He used to visit, and he would walk up and down.  He said, "This old lady won't talk until there's a tokoloshe, a zombie."  Tokoloshe is an electric shock.  They put it all over my body.  I used to call it the belt of Johan.  If it was pressing two seconds I would have died.  I fell, I collapsed.  I was pissing myself.  I stayed there for on Friday and Saturday and Sunday.  They didn't even give me food, they didn't give me any water.  The only thing I wanted was water.  I was so thirsty for water, but at that stage I wasn't hungry.  They came back to me and they took me again at night.  I couldn't distinguish between night and day.  I didn't even know it was Saturday.  I didn't even know where they took me.  It was the sea.  I didn't see the sea, but I could feel it was by the sea.  The other one was holding me and pushing me ahead as if I could fall, and I was praying that, "I wish I could fall over and die."  They did that to me, they said, "Take out.  Produce the weapons.  We've heard that there are lots of weapons.  You don't want to produce these weapons."  They took me back and put me inside the house, and it was Sunday.  On Sunday they took me.  I was wet already.  They took me to Pinetown.  There was a new style.  There were very nice cells there.  It was a big area.  You would sit here.  There were wires all over.  I stayed there in Pinetown, and there was a black gentleman there.  Everyday I used to wake up, I used to go right upstairs for interrogation.  I didn't wash this nightdress.  I am pissing on this nightdress, and this nightdress is smelling.  They said to me I am smelling.  And there was also an African guy called Kleinboy.  When he was pulling - he would pull out the snot and throw it at me, and spit on me.  For a long time they did that.  They used to make statements, but I couldn't see without my glasses.  Mbatha used to pressurise me that I must sign.  I said, "What can I sign?  You're the ones who have written.  I cannot write," and my arms were stiff because they had been torturing me.  They had handcuffed me behind.  For three days they had handcuffed me.  I said, "God, if you can let me die."  They said, "You mustn't say, "Oh God help me," say, "Oh devil help me."  You don't even go to church.  Why call God?"  I tolerated all of this, but on the day when I left there was an undertaker of Mpayisa.  I knew that my children had died, all the three children.  It was Vusi, Tutu and Thekani.  They took them away.  I stayed there, but I don't know how long I stayed there, and they said I must go back, I must go and identify them at the mortuary at Gale Street.  I walked there in this nightdress.  I took Mbatha and another special branch of girl.  She used to stay at Ntuzuma.  They took me to the mortuary.  They phoned, they said, "Those people who died had number so-and-so.  Take them outside and line them up," and I identified my children.  There were two of them that you could identify.  The third one you couldn't identify.  They had burnt him completely.  He was ashen white.  His whole body was ashen white.  There was no skin.  I don't know what had happened to him.  I said, "Go well my children, you are dying for the children, you are not robbing anyone."  They took me back to Pinetown.  Every morning we used to go for interrogation.  They would ask me all sorts of questions.  Eventually I agreed, I said, "There are weapons."  They beat me up.  I think I was unconscious, I didn't see what happened.  From there I became unconscious, and I said, "I will tell you."  From there I said they were under the bananas.  They weren't under the bananas, and of course there was no truth.  They came, they said, "Where did you use them?"  I said, "Who had taken them?" and then they hit me again.  I thought they were going to kill me.  I said I had put them at my friend at such and such a place.  I was hoping that by delaying my friend will get time to take away those weapons.  They went for her, and when they arrived in Pinetown van Ruys came and said, "You, old lady, you said they - you told your friends that they must take your guns to such and such a place."  I said, "No, I didn't say."  They said, "Open up."  They opened the door, I saw my friend.  I said, "My friend, you've got an operation, you can't see me.  My legs and hands are hurt.  I said, "Please, bring those weapons up ..." (Incomplete -end of Side A, Tape 10) ... I stayed there for many months without having clothes.  I think somebody got - released in the paper that I was being tortured.  One time a white man came.  He said he was not a police, but he heard that I am being tortured, who was beating me up?  I told him, "If you're staying in someone's house can you say this person is beating me, because you are going to leave me here now and they will continue to assault me?"  I said, "They are not assaulting me.  Why are you loving me so much."  They are the ones who came to me and said there was a letter from a senior attorney that I shouldn't be assaulted.  And at that time I was real relieved because they were no longer assaulting me.  I realised that I could take the issue further if they continued to  assault me.  So after I had identified Mboyisa, and I had identified their bodies, it was very painful because those were my children.  Those were really like my children.  But that wasn't their intention.  They didn't want to kill them.  They wanted to kill other boys.  This was just by mistake.  I don't know who let the information out that I had gone to fetch the boys among those who had sent me, because when these were died they said, "No, we were looking for Mkolisa and Mkhize, who killed Sokena, the Special Branch at Z Section."  I don't know if there's somebody who exposes information.  That was the end of it for that time.  I stayed in gaol for a long time.  The lawyer brought clothes for me, but they wouldn't give me these clothes.  They were still building this gaol.  I saw a person from Clermont.  I called out to this person, I said, "Please, tell Brother Archie that I have got no clothes and I am cold and it's May."  It was around about May, about June.  "Since I arrived with a nightdress I can't wash this nightdress.  What am I going to dress?" because these other boers which I don't even know, when they brought my clothes from another girl from the lawyer the other one signed that I had gotten those clothes, whereas this other boer took it and gave it to another prisoner.  And these other boers who had signed said, "Where are these clothes, because I have signed for them?" but I never found those clothes until the lawyer - until the church people met and they brought us track suits.  It was the only time that I wear clothes and wear some warm clothes.  They had kicked me at the back.  I am old already.  Mbatha took me to the doctor.  He used to take me to the doctor regularly.  When I heard that - I complained that I have got a problem with my ear.  He said, "This doctor said there's no problem with your ear."  One day they throw a tear gas.  They threw tear gas at me.  The doctor said to me, "The tear gas is very good.  It will relieve your chest if they throw tear gas at you."  I stayed there.  I was very sick, and they took me to Westville Hospital and gaol, when I was still in gaol at hospital.  I stayed there for a long time, I don't know how long.  I heard my name being called out and I went there.  They asked me if you've got clothes.  I had track suit.  They took me to the doctor, and the doctor said what do I feel?  I showed my back that had been kicked by van Riebeck, and my back is very sore.  This doctor said, "Ag, it's just old age."  He gave me a little piece of paper.  I don't know what was that date, I can't remember.  I have really forgotten all those details.  So that's how I got out.  I rest my case here, because I have forgotten about other issues, like since 1982.  In Umlazi in 1980 there was an organisation called Esol Umlazi(?).  There was GM there.  GM, they killed him on the 19th.  We were going to go to the court hearing on 20th of November.  The township manager had complained.  We were told that water and services should be included in the rent, but because the KwaZulu Government they took out the water, rent and rates, and we said, "Why are these things separated?"  And GM took up that case, and they killed him.  We couldn't go to the Court hearing on the 20th.  These other guys opened their organisation called IFP.  I did get involved in IFP when it was established.  They said it was our brother outside that had given instructions that this one inside must organise, because people had forgotten about the organisation in 1960.  Now people had forgotten that they must struggle.  That's when I went to IFP, but once I was inside I said, "I don't know."  I said, "Uh-uh, they never talk like this in ANC."  When I tried to make this comment there was a man who stood up, who's already passed away.  He hit me with a - slapped me with a clap.  And other people had also stand.  They didn't start killing then, they would just beat you up.  So I ran away.  I could also run at that time.  So I ran until I rested at 426 at Shande's section.  But after killing Mxenge, "But now we say you must pay for water."  "How can we pay for water when there hasn't been a court hearing?  You seem to be agreeing with the boers now.  I used to trust you, but now what's happening?"  I have forgotten other things, but they also used to hit me in my head.  They said, "We are going to hit you in such a way that the doctor won't be able to recognise that you have been beaten and you are a dirty old woman."