MR VISSER
Yes, no Chairperson there's the last issue, that's the question of Krause and Smit.  As Krause and Smit told you that they were field workers, or they collected information, Smit was the field worker who passed on the information to Krause, neither of them could remember much.  I think Krause remembered Mr Mnyele, if I'm not mistaken, but one of them, but he couldn't remember any information about any of the others and then in cross-examination, in evidence-in-chief he was asked whether he associated himself with the raid and he said yes.  In cross-examination he was asked:  "Did you know before you gave the information that it was going to be used in the raid?" and he said no and Smit also said no.  Chairperson, we say that with respect that makes no difference to the fact that they knew at the time of the raid, that the information that they had provided was going to be used.