JUDGE MGOEPE
Mr Mpshe, I do not think you are on the same wavelength with the witness.  Those people might have told the truth of what happened, but they were just describing what happened, what took place at the scene, but they did not tell the court about the motive which the applicant is now telling us about, and I think this is the point the applicant is trying to make when he says that Mr Becker did not have knowledge of the truth.  He means the truth as regards to the objective that he is now articulating to us.