TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  Well, actually Andy Taylor and Jerry Fourie was just doing the interrogation.  He was my baby, if you want to call it that way, because he was abducted by my people.  And it was up to headquarters, Brigadier Skoon, Mr Chairman, to eventually then decide on his fate.  So I had to be present the whole time, and I was present until he was removed by Sergeant Koos Schutte to Lothair Police Station.