MR LAMEY
Very well, I am not going to take this aspect any further, I just want to put it to you that Mr Nortje will testify that he was present during that meeting.  However, he cannot recall somebody like Mbotoli.  His evidence will be that it is possible that somebody like that may have been present, but that he was definitely present during that meeting at the Jan Smuts Holiday Inn.  His recollection is that it was Van der Westhuizen who made the arrangements to have that meeting.