ADV DU PLESSIS
Mr Chairman my information is that it is not.  That is how I had it as well. Obviously the Committee should take into account the fact that we have a difficulty here, that is one of the difficulties pertaining to amnesty applications.  As you've noted, we've tried to include evidence and facts pertaining to all the incidents where the applicants were involved in and especially Captain Hechter and certain incidents he remembers well, and in those incidents he testified vividly.  There is, however, this problem and we have experienced this problem and I simply am not in a position myself to make further inquiries regarding this.  In other incidents Captain Hechter had Warrant Officer van Vuuren to rely on and that made it easier, but here we have no leads, we have nothing.  We could have left this out and not asked for amnesty on this, but Mr Chairman under the circumstances we wanted to include everything as far as possible that he could remember and that is why we included this application.