UNKNOWN
There is a close association, M'Lord, between them and the State.  That's why I say so.  M'Lord, may I say that, also add that they are in possession of a file relating to Mr Ngo.  Apparently their attitude is that the file has been made available to them and we do not have access to the file as such, (indistinct) and that presents a difficulty for us because we would like to have insight into the contents of the file.  I would like to get a direction from you, I am making submissions, Mr Chair, I would like a directive from you, Mr Chair ... (intervention).