BENJAMIN BRODE
Okay, my suggestion is okay the facts are that I left 
the restaurant first, followed by my colleagues.  And you kept 
stressing the point that I didn't mention anything about Frans and 
one thing and another, I want to try and control myself.
	My suggestion is we heard the shots, Joe was not in the front 
of the restaurant, I am talking about the front area of the restaurant, 
not near the front, just the front area of the restaurant, he was not 
there, he was not there, he was at the back.
	He was at the far end of the restaurant, not in the front end of 
the restaurant.  We heard the shots, I went out.  Right, when I went 
out, I saw guys coming out of the Tavern next door and as they 
were coming out, getting into their cars, they were shooting, but to 
me it was like as if they were just ushered out, you know because 
they were causing disturbance there and they were just told to leave, 
that is the way I saw it.
	Right, they got into the car, the car was moving towards us, 
the lights were still off.  Still shooting, still firing away, blindly, 
then suddenly they fired at us.  I felt a push from the back, you 
know, that is when I turned to run in.  And at no stage, at no stage, 
I will stress at no stage, was Joe Cerqueira outside there with us.  
He was not lying in that gutter, there at that yellow pole in front of 
us.
	My suggestion is there is a possibility that when we turned to 
run back inside, in the confusion there at the door, we running 
inside, no one verbally said Joe, duck, someone is shooting, no one 
said nothing, I can't remember seeing Joe or anything.  In that 
confusion as we were running for our lives, Joe could have come 
through.  That is my opinion.  And to answer, you know, about the 
gun, as I said I don't, I have got no recollection.  I have taken an 
oath and I can't recall giving the gun to Frans.  There is the 
possibility, after what happened I was a total wreck.