MR STEWART
Thank you Ms Committee Member but the proportionality, in my submission, is not to be weighed by the insult on the one hand, against the murder on the other.  The proportionality is to be weighed by the objective on the one hand and the act on the other, and the objective was an objective, as I've suggested, of saying that the IFP is here, we're not, you must know we're here, we won't be insulted in this way, you people must be aware that this is not just an ANC area.  In broad terms that's the objective, and that in the context of this war and the context of what took place in KwaZulu Natal broadly and in Claremont in particular, that response was not disproportionate to the objective.  The act was not disproportionate to the objective, in my submission.  Those are the things that are being compared, as opposed to the insult.
	There are, it arises in particular for reference of the Committee, Mr Luthuli's explanation of the objectives in these incidents arise in particular in the cross-examination of Mr Hewitt, that section of the record.  There are explanations in other sections of the record as well, and in his affidavit.  As the Members of the Committee will recall, the way in which Luthuli's evidence was handled at the hearing by myself was rather than deal with the details of each and every incident, what we said is, we rely on what's in the affidavit and we'll now deal with some of the incidents specifically and we'll deal with some of the overview.  And we really only for considerations of time and convenience didn't deal with each one in a lot of detail.  But much of that detail was then picked up in cross-examination, and where it doesn't, where it's not in the cross-examination, then it's in Mr Luthuli's affidavit itself.  ...(intervention)
	Sorry Mr Committee Member.