RUSSELL ALLY
Because, Mama, you may know that in the same period, 1985, June, July, that there was actually an operation, it was called Operation Zero Zero, which the Security Police were responsible for.  What it involved was giving to young Comrades, grenades that people pretended to be from the underground, from Umkhonto we Sizwe, giving these youths these hand grenades which were, which were booby trapped, so that when you pulled the pin out the hand
grenade would immediately explode and that there are people who have actually applied for amnesty, that this goes right up to, the then, Commissioner of Police and even the Minister of Police was aware of this, these activities.  Now, later today we will actually be hearing from one of the survivors, but in your statement you do not make any, any link between this attempt at giving these young activists these booby trapped hand grenades.  Is this something that you have learnt subsequently, because in your statement that does not come across.  You do speak about hand grenades, but you do not indicate where these hand grenades came from.  Can you just tell us a little bit more?  Do you have any idea of whether your son and his friends were also victims of this, this Operation, Operation Zero, Zero?