ANDRIES MOZIKEFANI GAMEDE
Yes, I'm actually giving you the background of the community of Piet Retief as we perceived situations.  Just listen to me.  As you are aware, the ANC had the political wing of the ANC and the military wing.  I was involved with the political wing of the ANC.  Mr Gushu, as you know, he was involved with the underground which, as I'm sitting here, I've got no details of because it was a secret thing.  Very few people would know exactly what happens within the military wings of the ANC.  But the general purpose of the ANC was to fight the Government of the day which we did successfully and we overthrow and all the organs of State at that stage, whether it was the police or the courts, they were all defending apartheid and to ensure that they keep white people in power and that's how I understand it politically.