TESTIMONY_GIVER:
  I can.  For instance, not in the Security Police set up, but with the specific case of Captain Jack Le Grange and Sergeant Robert van der Merwe, who murdered two drug addicts and seriously wounded a third one.  At a stage after Almond Nofomela was sentenced to death in 1987 - I think it was round about '88 - they received two death sentences, the two white policemen, as first offenders, and 18 years for the one that they injured seriously.  Eventually their sentences were commuted by the State President to 25 and 15 years, and after three and a half years they are out on the streets.  Whilst Almond Nofomela, as a first offender, murdering a white farmer in 1986, received the death penalty only once, his sentence was commuted to 20 years, life in prison.  So what I want to say, if they want to help you there is a political will, there's a way out, like in the Jack Le Grange/Robert van der Merwe case.  Three and a half years, two murders, a serious assault, GBH with intent to kill, and they are out on the street.  So that is the 11th Commandment.  There's also the classic example of Major Menz, who's also now frequently mentioned, who was involved in quite few incidents.  He was at a stage in gaol for two years, or they received a year's sentence on two charges of assault, and after a few months General Johan Coetzee got them out of gaol in 1980/81, and the lately - I think he's still in the police, a major in the police.  So they were caught, had to go through the channels, and eventually was then helped in that way.