MR JANSEN
Yes, myself very familiar Mr Chairman, the context  of course is - I'd have to go into long explanations as to what were the present circumstances in the Neethling trial.  The first problem there was that although there were problems with the sequence, there was not dispute as to the time.  For instance there was no date of 10th August suggested as there was now for the event, so the whole - the entire factual enquiry related around events in October and early November and not ...[intervention]