MR WILLS
Well firstly, with respect Mr Committee Member, there is a conflict between the applicant's evidence in chief and his evidence on the statement in this regard.  As you correctly reflect, that chain of events accurately describes what he said in his statement.  In the evidence in chief, the opposite is the case, that he went first of all to Mkehle and then got the instruction and came back and raped the girls.  There, I raised with him this contradiction in his evidence, and his answer was to the extent that, you know it was a long time ago, he couldn't be sure.  However, if the first incident, as you describe, occurs, the whole manner in which Mr Hlongwane's being, his very essence, had been completely destroyed from a moral point of view by his activities, by that time, he had been involved in numerous killings, attacks, he had been taught by numerous people including South African government agencies, his training in Koeberg occurred before that period, simply to hate the ANC with a passion.  And I submit that the act of degrading the women to that extent, would have served that purpose of simply showing the ANC that we can do anything to you.  We can do anything to your women, and this is our area, and you guys must know that, you clear out of here.