MR STEPHENS
Well they basically just about crossed De Villiers, yes.  They'd come to the end of De Villiers Street when the guard started shooting.  It wasn't that they were on the other side of De Villiers and then he started shooting, it was only once they'd - they were in King George, and if that's the road, as they came to the end of De Villiers, that's basically when they started shooting, give or take a metre or two.