ADV BOOYENS
My three applicants, because I think they are in a different position.   Yes, as far as they are concerned, because they were a team made up with the same purpose - of course with one exception, that's a factual one, and that is Marx's involvement, Mr Chairman,   only goes so far as to the scuffle.   He's got nothing to do subsequently because he deliberately pulls him out of that, but I think that is purely factual.   If one is going to place reliance on the subsequent fact and that blame in any case in our submission is rests squarely on the shoulders of Goosen and not on these, but if the Committee finds a distinction is to be made and some significance to  attach to the fact that adequate medical assistance wasn't obtained for Mr Biko, then of course Marx is out of that one clearly.
	But that is really where -  but insofar as the initial intention and how things started is concerned, even here there is of course a slight distinction as far as Marx is concerned because he walks in uninformed as to why this scuffle started.   What he sees, you would recall Mr Chairman,  he sees a scuffle involving a detainee and some of his colleagues and he joined in to help.   But those are factual distinctions.   I think the legal principle is the same for all of them.