MR VISSER
Well Mr Chairman, Visser on record, I may add that during the hearing which you attended last week and while we were preparing this case, Mr Chairman, the name of Mr Labuschagne was mentioned and I personally mentioned it to my learned friend Mr du Plessis and Mr Britz and that was how they were informed and I also told them that in the interest of full disclosure we're going to have to tell this Committee that they were involved but that we were not going to implicate him but of course that's not our decision, that's Mr Nolte's decision.  But that's how it came about Mr Chairman.