RONNIE KASRILS
Yes.  Sorry advocate, that part of your question I agree with.  That's what I am basically saying in my statement when I say just imagine what they fed into the minds of the foot soldiers who pulled the trigger.  That is one thing that comes to mind.
 Another thing is the discussion you were having here this evening about the soldier who was shot in the back of the head, Smuts Ngonyama's type of theories, is it possible that there were some elements who deliberately wanted to shoot one of the soldiers so that there would be panic, and they would all feel that they were under attack and excite them even more in terms of the massacre because I think it is possible that some elements, perhaps at command level or conniving with Gqozo, might have considered the provocation of a massacre here irrespective of where we were deployed, would have given the chance to teach us a damn good lesson.
 I haven't elaborated on that in my statement because I think this is a task for you and for any inquiry but I think it certainly is a line of inquiry to follow.  I do say that perhaps it was sheer negligence and on that basis we were able to come through and then there was some pandemonium and the soldiers shot because they had been programmed, and I think when you put questions to the Defence Force people, those seconded officers from the SADF like Marius Oelschig and others, they will be able to tell you exactly what was the deployment plans on the day and on the ground.  I do know what they were because I've asked them but I don't want to come and tell you second-hand and I'm not sure as to whether what they have told me is true either.