FERDINAND BARNARD
I think I said so to Mr van Zyl, but our original contact was at the Johannesburg SAP Rugby Club where I had been a member many years previously.  We ran into each other there.  His wife at that stage, introduced us to each other because I knew her when she was a State Prosecutor and I was a Detective.  The two of them later got married.  She introduced us and then upon various occasions I telephoned Mr van Zyl and we met in a restaurant eventually and I told him that there could be possible ways in which we could compliment each other.  Among others, I told him that much of the CCB's information was updated.  He agreed with me.  And we also discussed in general.