AZHAR CACHALIA
Quite clearly that is the position, and I'm saying that when the applicants say that, we only responded to gunfire, I'm saying that that is an improbability because they had come armed to be ready to shoot and they didn't need to wait.  But the more important thing is a peripheral matter.  The, Mr Sithole's sitting on the rooftop, the Mr Sithole shooting from the rooftop in a kneeling position, and the Mr Sithole shooting from behind the shack through this particular window, and the Mr Sithole falling to the ground and shooting from the ground.  I am saying that there is in fact no reason for Mr Dastile, or for one of the other applicants to say where Sithole shot from different from him.  I am saying that Mr Sithole in that matter clearly has not made full disclosure as to where he was in the matter.  If you believe his co-applicant or if you believe Mr Dastile, and I say that Mr Dastile is a credible witness, then one cannot believe Mr Sithole and if he's cannot believe what he is saying on that particular position, just on one issue, I, we could go on ad infinitum discussing the probabilities.
	But Chairperson the issue that I also want to raise is the issue of what Mr Draht had brought about the Skosana shebeen.  I think it needs to be clarified, notwithstanding what the judgment has said.  The evidence that is clear before us is that here were two groups confronting one another, there was a shooting, running away up the hill is not running away towards Skosana's shebeen, which is in a completely different direction.  And irrespective of what it says here the evidence before you and I think it is much more clearer and we don't know what was the evidence before the Court when that particular sentence was written, but it is capable of more than one interpretation.  I'm not saying that it is wrong but in what context it was said and in what kind of evidence is not what we.  
	What I am saying is quite clearly the person that was killed at Skosana's shebeen, the man with the briefcase, cannot by any stretch of imagination be said to be one of the persons that was fleeing or was part of the group who was running away and they were pursuing these people.