MR VISSER IN REPLY
Chairperson, very briefly.  We've anticipated most of the points but as far as Mr Gordhan's submissions are concerned, he says that there was no or there was not sufficient frankness and as I understand it, Chairperson, nothing else is advanced to you except that he shows no sincere regret and that his evidence does not promote reconciliation.  Well, with respect Chairperson, I don't need to address you on those issues.  Certainly showing regret is no requirement of the Act and whether or not his evidence shows reconciliation does not detract from the fact that what he said may not have been palatable to some people as long as you are convinced and satisfied, Chairperson, that what he said was the truth.
	Chairperson, the issue of the address of the type of equipment and how it was obtained, he was very frank, he says he can't remember and it really is a side issue, Chairperson, it is not a material issue.  We've dealt with the personal vindictiveness Chairperson, there's no evidence to indicate that at all except statements made in cross-examination.
	Chairperson, lastly as far as the mole is concerned, Botha tells you it was important to find out who it was and one can easily understand why.  This person probably had access to information about informers, about information about reports that came in etc. etc. which he could pass on to the enemy.  With great respect, Chairperson, if Botha tells you that it was important to find it out there's no reason to doubt that assertion.  That's all we have to say, Chairperson, in response and we again ask you to favourably consider the amnesty application of Mr Botha.
	Just perhaps lastly, Chairperson, the same goes for the alleged contradictions about times etc. etc., the contradictions were raised by Mr Gordhan, it wasn't raised by the applicants.  The applicants in fairness conceded as possibilities certain time lapses which were put to them by Mr Gordhan.  Mr Gordhan cannot on the strength of that now submit to you, Chairperson, that there are contradictions which are material.  Thank you Chairperson.