MR VISSER
Yes, there is that obvious point as well, yes.  Chairperson and then I understand that I made a mistake this morning by saying that van Sittert was Breytenbach's Commander.  That was a clear mistake, if I said that.  van Sittert of course was a Security Branch member and he was under Steyn, not in the Task Force and I do apologise for making that mistake.
	Chairperson, it remains, in my respectful submission, only for me to address you on one other point and that's the issue of proportionality required by Section 20, sub-section 3.  Chairperson as you said yourself, this was not a frozen situation.  There was a hectic car chase.  There were members of the public present.  For some reason or other it became very important to Botha to stop the car as soon as he could.  He may have picked a bad spot to do so.  As it turned out, it was a blessing that members of the public were not injured or killed, but the fact of the matter is that is how life works, that is the reality, that's what happened, according to their evidence.  Botha says that he was convinced that he was under fire.  The irony is that, as it was pointed out by Commissioner Bosman to him, that he was really the one that started the whole thing by shooting at the rear wheel because that, in its turn, created the impression with Lembede and Wasserman that they were under fire and they thought they were under fire from the occupants of the car, so things went horribly wrong indeed and in the process...