JAN PETRUS KRUGER
Two years ago he did not know it.  As I have said, at that stage we did not have legal representation after we left Mr Smit, we did not have any legal representation, it was only on a previous appearance before the Amnesty Committee where we received legal representation and only afterwards the process was picked up again.  So there was a long lapse of time where we were alone, and on our previous appearance we appeared without any legal representation.