MR RAMAWELE
Yes, Mr Chairman, the significance is that my client says that he was, firstly he was told by Mr de Kock that people were going to get shot at and also that Mr de Kock was at the bridge.  The significance lies in the fact that, should the evidence point that Mr de Kock was at the bridge, in fact then that will actually mean that Mr de Kock also knew about what was going on and what was going to happen in Chesterville and that is the significance, as far as I see it and when looking at that particular point, I think one should also consider the background of Mr de Kock himself, his position, he was a Commander, he had a lot of experience, he was involved in a lot of illegal activities at that time and now, if you look at his background, you look at the number of people who went to Durban and you look at the fact that he was in Durban and Chesterville was a boiling point, the comrades were in control of Chesterville, as he put it, it was a liberated area,  when you look at that particular situation and you look at the evidence of Mr de Kock that he was asleep, it doesn't make sense.  It doesn't make sense.  Here was a man who was in charge, who was a Commander, he was very dedicated to his cause and the place is in turmoil, the comrades are in control, but yet he goes to sleep.  He doesn't even know when people go into Chesterville, he doesn't know it.  When an AK47 is given, he hasn't seen it and if you look at his background and what he was doing at the time, it is my submission that it is not really consistent with what he was doing at that time as a Commander at Vlakplaas, it is not consistent.