UNKNOWN
Mr Chairman, Visser on record, may I come in here.  I have the same difficulty the witness has.  First of all my learned friend does not inform you or anybody else where he gets his information from and more importantly, Mr Chairman, and this is what is leading to confusion and I don't want to put words in the mouth of the witness, but he's got to distinguish, is he talking about security branch members?  Is he talking about riot squad members?  What's he talking about?  That's what's confusing us all, Mr Chairman.  If he could be a little bit more specific I'm sure the witness can be very helpful in this regard.