MATTHEW GWALA
These are blue lies.  I won't put it in any other manner as to say it was a mistake.  It's just a blue lie.  As I've already explained that Mbalendle never had a problem at any stage so Gushu was telling lies.
	All the evidence that he rendered was lies and my brother's never been involved in Black Chain gang, I don't even know those Black Chain gangs.  I used to be with my brother every time and everywhere.  
	At times we would go to meetings that were addressed by Mr Mabena.  It never ever happened that he got involved with the Black Chain gang.  He was involved with UWUSA at one stage and I told him that he should stop being involved in politics, he should just look for a job and he ended up working for a company that was based in Pretoria.  I think he was working at Evander.