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Matches for "Flamboro Downs"
The Raceway & Flamboro team up
LONDON, ON - Management at The Raceway at Western Fair District and Flamboro Downs, in consultation with the AGCO and Central Ontario Standardbred Association (COSA), wishes to advise horse people of a new harness racing rule that will be implemented as part of their respective Track Rules effective Saturday, December 14, 2019. This rule will be known as the "Outside Post Rule." The new rule specifies that, "Any horse that is scratched from the outside post position at either The Raceway at Western Fair District or Flamboro Downs will be assigned the outside post position in its next start within 15 days of the scratched date." For Clarity; If a horse is entered at The Raceway at Western Fair and is drawn into post position 7 and scratches, that horse will be assigned post position 7 for its next start within 15 days at The Raceway at Western Fair. Should that scratched horse enter at Flamboro Downs within the 15-day period, that horse will be assigned post position 8. The opposite would apply should the original scratch take place at Flamboro Downs. A) The Rule Applies to: I. All Scratches - Example: Lame, Sick, Transportation, Weather B) The Rule Does NOT Apply if: II. The horse participates in an added money event or racing handicap from the Racing Secretary. III. The horse is scratched from the Outside Post and changes ownership. IV. The horse is present at the racetrack as is a late scratch (sick/lame). V. The racing card or a race(s) are cancelled. C) Please Note: Race Office will monitor all scratches from the Outside Post. If there are two (2) horses deemed to be assigned the Outside Post in the same race, the Race Office will draw by lot for both horses to receive the Outside Post Positions in the entered race. by Greg Gangle, for The Raceway
Fillies impress in Ontario Sire Stakes
DUNDAS, ON - OCT. 2, 2019 - Scoring her second straight Ontario Sire Stakes Gold Series victory on Wednesday evening at Flamboro Downs, Wine Rack Hanover has established herself as one of the two-year-old harness racing trotting fillies to watch heading into the post season. Starting from the advantageous Post 1, driver Sylvain Filion wanted to control the tempo and, on her best behaviour, Wine Rack Hanover complied. The filly laid down fractions of :30, 1:00.2 and 1:31.1 and, without facing a challenge, sailed home a one and three-quarter length winner in 2:00.1. Princesspartypants finished second and Alpina was third. Fan favourite Jula Shes Magic made an early break and finished well back in fifth. "When you've got the rail on a half-mile you've got to try and hold your position and hope for the best, but I knew at from the start when she left the gate that she felt solid and I was pretty confident," said Filion. "She did it pretty easy, well in hand. She's still learning, but I mean she's come a long way from how she started off to how she is now." Wine Rack Hanover started her Ontario Sires Stakes on a strong note, winning her July 14 Grassroots division at Georgian Downs, but struggled mid-season with breaks. Filion first sat behind the Kadabra daughter when trainer Richard "Nifty" Norman re-qualified her on Sept. 17. Wine Rack Hanover won that qualifier with a 1:56.1 effort and then earned her first Gold Series win at Woodbine Mohawk Park on Sept. 24. Regular reinsman Trevor Henry was in the bike for that start but is currently in Lexington, KY, so Filion was happy to fill in for Wednesday's outing. "I had a chance to qualify her a few weeks ago and I really liked her," said Milton, ON resident Filion. "She had a tendency to make breaks, so they kind of changed the gear and she qualified real good, and then she raced good and tonight, well Trevor's gone away, so they asked me to come and drive her and I said, 'Sure, absolutely'." Norman trains Wine Rack Hanover for Pinske Stables of Plato, MN and Bridgette Jablonsky of Hanover, PA. In nine starts the filly now boasts a record of three wins and two thirds for earnings of $133,238 and heads into the Oct. 12 Super Final in fourth spot in the division standings. Warrawee Vicky will lead the two-year-old trotting fillies into the post season after scoring her third Gold Series win Wednesday. Starting from Post 4, the fan favourite tucked in third early as Trina led the field of seven to a :30 quarter and a 1:00.2 half. Heading for the 1:30.4 three-quarters driver Doug McNair sent Warrawee Vicky up the outside to the lead and although Trina went off-stride McNair kept the pedal down and Warrawee Vicky powered home to a six and one-quarter length victory in 1:59.3. Pocket-sitter She Rocks Kemp finished second and Ride To Justice recovered from an early break to be third. "She raced good last week and real good again tonight," said McNair, who was making his second appearance in Warrawee Vicky's race bike. "She's flawlessly gaited and absolutely perfect to drive. It gives you lots of options." McNair crafted the win for trainer Scott McEneny of Puslinch and owner Brad Grant of Milton, ON. In addition to Wednesday's win Warrawee Vicky was also victorious in the July 11 Gold event at Woodbine Mohawk Park and the July 24 Gold event at Grand River Raceway. In nine lifetime starts the Royalty For Life daughter boasts a record of five wins and one second for earnings of $173,265. The top 10 point earners from the regular season will now advance to the Oct. 12 Super Final at Woodbine Mohawk Park. Wednesday's event wrapped up Flamboro Downs' 2019 Ontario Sires Stakes schedule, which was highlighted by an Ontario Sires Stakes and track record performance by three-year-old pacing filly Sunny Dee in Gold Series action on Sept. 22. Complete results from Wednesday's program are available at Flamboro Downs Results. From the Ontario Sire Stakes
Back-to-back CKG Billings winner
Rexdale, Ont.--For the second consecutive evening CKG Billings president Tony "the Capo" Verruso enjoyed a trip to a Canadian racetrack's winners circle in a two- night harness racing journey across the border for amateur driving action.. On Sunday night Verruso was victorious in an east region Billings pace at Flamboto Downs and last night (Sept.30) he made a 24-1 shot look like an odds-on favorite when he guided Mister Of All to a 1:56.3 Billings trot at the Woodbine Mohawk Racetrack in greater Toronto. One of two American reinsmen who participated in both Canada's Billings events, Verruso undoubtedly enjoyed trip north of the border after being two-for-two in the win department. Now with five victories, eight seconds and one third along with a .337 UDR in 29 seasonal starts, "the Capo" now finds himself in the running for National Amateur Driver of the Year. With little respect from the attending Canadian crowd on Monday night Verruso's trotter had the eighth post position but that didn't deter Verruso from sending his steed out to seek a position along the pylons in the first turn. But no 'holes' were to be found so Verruso kept his charge marching for the lead after being on the limb in a :27.3 first quarter. Mister Of All took command and led his competition by four lengths as he trotted by the halfway point in :57.1 With the pedal to the metal Verruso kept after his trotter and they had five lengths on the field as they passed the three quarters in 1:26.4. And although Mister Of All's strides began to shorten as he headed down the long homestretch he had enough in the tank to score a 1:56.3 victory by 1-1/2 lengths. After being eighth at the three quarters and seventh at the top of the stretch, "Mighty Marielle" Enberg rallied Meadowbranch Memo to a second place finish while Lets Leavem garnered the show dough for "Handy Dan" St Pierre. The winner, owned by Robert Key paid $51.50. East region Billing action will continue on Thursday afternoon (Oct. 3) at Monticello Raceway. For race results and entries click here. by John Manzi, for the CKG Billings Series
CKG Billings Trot at Flamboro
Hamilton, ON--The industry's greatest traveling roadshow moved north of the border on Sunday to Hamilton, Ont. for the CKG Billings pace at Flamboro Downs and when the harness racing judges posted the official sign Tony "the Capo" Verruso emerged victorious after he guided Cheyenne Moishe to a gate to wire 1:57.4 clocking over eight others. Verruso, the president of the CKG Billings Amateur Driving Series, was one of just two Americans who traveled to Canada for the Flamboro Downs event and used the front-end route to score his fourth seasonal triumph and 75th of his amateur career. Cheyenne Moishe started from the pole position and when the starter said "go" Verruso sent his charge to the front and the 10 year old Western Ideal stallion was alone on the lead when he passed the first stanza in :28.2. Still comfortably in front by the halfway point in :59.1 Freddie "Frenchy" Bourgault sent the betting favorite, Danzig Moon, up to challenge for the lead as the two passed by the three quarters in 1:28.1. But as the two leaders paced around the final turn Danzig Moon went off-stride which left the decided 14-1 outsider, Simon Said and driver" Racin' Jason" Sgrignouli, with the only legitimate shot of catching Cheyenne Moishe. But that never materialized as Verruso's pacer had enough in the tank to turn back the challenge and score a 1-1/2 length triumph. Third place went to Little Quick driven by "Joe Joe" Walker. The winner is owned by Peter Murtezai and trained by Ronald Macdonald. He paid $5.50 for win. Tonight (Sept. 30) a final Canadian contest, a 9-.horse trot, will take place at Woodbine Mohawk. by John Manzi, for the Billings Series
Harvest and Autumn Series noms due
MILTON, ON - September 23, 2019 - Woodbine Entertainment would like to remind all harness racing horsepeople of the upcoming October 1 deadline for nominations to this year's Ontario Sired Harvest and Autumn Series. The Harvest Series consists of eight events, one for each two and three-year-old division, and will be raced at Mohawk Park. The Autumn Series features four events for two and three-year-olds and is split between Flamboro Downs and The Raceway at Western Fair District. The Harvest Series is open to Ontario sired two and three-year-olds, who are non-winners of $30,000 in 2019 as of midnight September 30. Each event features two $17,000 guaranteed preliminary legs and a $40,000 added money final. The two-year-old events start the week of Monday, October 14, while the three-year-olds start the week of Monday, October 28. The nomination fee is $300. The Autumn Series is open to Ontario sired two and three-year-olds, who are non-winners of $10,000 lifetime as of midnight September 30. Each event will have two $8,500 guaranteed preliminary legs and a $20,000 added money final. The series begins November 9. The nomination fee is $200. Horsepeople can download the nomination forms and full conditions by visiting www.woodbine.com/mohawk/horsepeople. The forms are available under 'Stake Nominations' and nominations can be paid under 'Payments'. Nominations close Tuesday, October 1. If sending nominations by mail, envelopes must be clearly post-marked no later than October 1, 2019 or payment will not be accepted. Registered mail is recommended. by Mark McKelvie, for Woodbine Entertainment
Record falls at Flamboro
DUNDAS, ON - SEPT. 22, 2019 - Ontario's top harness racing three-year-old pacing fillies waged an epic battle at Flamboro Downs on Sunday night as they wrapped up their Ontario Sire Stakes Gold Series regular season in a single $158,000 division. Top point earners Sunny Dee, Boadicea and Powerful Chris lined up at Posts 2, 4 and 10 in the 10-filly field and when the gate swung away all three were mixing it up through a sharp :26.3 opening quarter. Thats Incredible took a brief turn on the lead, followed by Summer Charm, but it was Sunny Dee who clocked the first fraction. Powerful Chris followed Sunny Dee away from the gate, keeping Boadicea out three-wide through the first turn before yielding to the fan favourite. Boadicea matched strides with Sunny Dee going by the :54 half, but driver Trevor Henry was able to regain a length advantage in the turn. Heading by the 1:22.2 three-quarters Boadicea again pressed the leader, but on the final turn Henry hit the accelerator and Sunny Dee turned for home with a clear advantage which she extended to two lengths by the 1:51.1 finish. Boadicea was an impressive second for driver Jonathan Drury and trainer Bill Budd and Summer Charm finished third for driver Jody Jamieson and trainer Dave Menary. "I didn't really think Billy's (Budd) horse might get around the turns as good as she does on the big track. Half-mile racing's a little different than mile racing," said Henry of his race strategy. "Sunny Dee's so good gaited I knew she wouldn't have a problem. "I tried to get away on JD (Drury) in the last turn because I knew his was struggling on the turns, so I got a few lengths on him," the Arthur, ON resident continued. "His horse raced well too, she was out the whole way and still was second, she's a hell of a filly too." The 1:51.1 clocking was an Ontario Sires Stakes and Flamboro Downs track record. The previous track record of 1:52 was set by Michelles Power in 2007, while the former Ontario Sires Stakes record of 1:52.2 was established by Chancey Lady at The Raceway at the Western Fair District in 2008. Bob McIntosh trains Sunny Dee and the Windsor resident and his partners Al McIntosh Holdings Inc. of Leamington, ON and C S X Stables of Liberty Center, OH also bred the filly, who is a half-sister to $1.7 million winners Somewhere in L A and L A Delight. Henry has driven Sunny Dee in all but one of her 18 lifetime starts and the pair was also victorious in the June 1 Gold Series season opener at Woodbine Mohawk Park. The Sunshine Beach filly was second twice and third once in her other three Gold Series starts, giving her a total of 162 points and ownership of third spot in the division standings behind Boadicea and Powerful Chris. The top 10 point earners will now begin preparations for the $225,000 Super Final at Woodbine Mohawk Park on Oct. 12. "It's a good field of fillies. It's a pretty tight bunch, they've raced tough all summer," said Henry of the top point earners, adding that the championship will likely come down to racing luck. "It'll definitely be the best trip, I think." The Ontario Sires Stakes program makes one more stop at Flamboro Downs before the regular season comes to a close. The Dundas half-mile will host the two-year-old trotting fillies on Wednesday, Oct. 2 for their last Gold Series event. Complete results from Sunday's program are available at Flamboro Downs Results. From the Ontario Sire Stakes
Horse slaughter leads Alumni broadcast
On today's Harness Racing Alumni Show, Horse Slaughter, the Integrity Act & the Safe Act are all discussed by Marty Irby (Executive Director of the Animal Welfare Action)…., along with Tammy Aspden, (Prominent Standardbred owner), who informs us about the Flamboro Downs harness racing & casino situation. Hosted by Freddie Hudson, Trade Martin & Bob Marks From the Harness Racing Alumni Show
COSA meets with Flamboro management
The following press release is from COSA; Bill O'Donnell, (President, COSA), Jack Darling (Director, COSA) John Hayes, (Chair, Ontario Racing) and Chad Gates, (General Manager, Ontario Racing Operations, Great Canadian Gaming) met today at Flamboro Downs to discuss Great Canadian Gaming's (GCG) recent press release banning children under the age of 19 in the Flamboro grandstand. COSA, OR and GCG have agreed to work together to accommodate anyone under the age of 19 from having to remain outside on the tarmac while attending the races. Anyone under the age of 19 will not be allowed in any casino areas in the grandstand except for having access to the washroom facilities located inside the main entrance. This is based on Ontario law. COSA has received a commitment from GCG to build a structure at the edge of the tarmac, overlooking the racetrack at the south end of the grandstand. This structure will have a snack bar with tables and seating where anyone including those under the age of 19 are welcome. This project will begin as soon as possible. OR will provide substantial capital improvement funds towards this project to ensure that it is a quality facility. More information will follow when available. Bill O'Donnell, President COSA
COSA issues statement on Flamboro
The Central Ontario Standardbred Association has issued a statement in response to Great Canadian Gaming's announcement to implement an age restriction on racegoers at Flamboro Downs, effective Tuesday (Sept. 3). The statement follows. COSA is deeply concerned with Great Canadian Gaming's announcement last week to eliminate children under the age of 19 from entering their grandstand, which has now become all casino under AGCO rules. It is very disturbing that they have signed a long-term funding agreement that in part was to hold horse racing with the goal of achieving self-sustainability. It is a well known fact that many fans, owners, trainers, drivers, breeders and caretakers who become involved in the industry are exposed to racing at a young age. By welcoming young people to attend their races and stand outside on the tarmac between September and May isn't anyone's version of promoting the business. COSA strongly advises all horsepeople to contact Donna Skelly, MPP for the Flamboro area by email at donna.skelly@pc.ola.org or by calling 905-679-3770 to express your disappointment in Great Canadian Gaming's decision in this matter. John Hayes, (Chair, Ontario Racing) and I have a scheduled meeting with Chad Gates, (General Manager, Ontario Racing Operations, Great Canadian Gaming) on Friday (Sept. 6) to discuss their recent announcement. More information will become available following that meeting. Bill O'Donnell President, COSA (COSA)
Letter calls for boycott at Flamboro Downs
The following is an Open Letter from TheStable.ca concerning Flamboro Downs' recent announcement re: age restrictions Many life changing decisions have been made for all of us since the end of the Slots At Racetracks Program in Ontario. Depending on your position in racing, these decisions could be seen as negative, or positive. I want to believe these were at least meant for the betterment of racing. I suppose this makes me an optimist. Or naive. We know that in order for us to succeed together in the future, we need to attract new clients, expand our borders, and branch out to the general public in a campaign to show everyday people the unmatched affordable entertainment found within our industry. As we increase participation in the Ontario harness racing industry, we begin to see that growth represented in our overall wagering handle. This will not happen overnight, and the stance of thestable.ca on this is simple: by bolstering participation through affordable ownership, we grow on-track attendance and on-track revenue. As far as wagering is concerned, look at the money wagered on horses racing under our banner, and it isn't hard to see that this formula is a very workable model. One fractional ownership stable alone cannot change racing, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Many of our 700 clients and the majority of those who are new to the racing industry want to experience racing in-person, on-track. They attend the track when their horse(s) race. Many of them include their families in the racing experience and this is good for racing across the board. It fits perfectly with the engagement model of thestable.ca and it accomplishes what the harness racing industry purports is important for sustainability: Industry research studies deliver the same message time and time again: early exposure to harness racing and Standardbred horse racing is critical in cultivating new generations of horse racing fans and participants. You can only imagine my surprise when I read the press release last week about Flamboro's new on-site "age restrictions". I must say, I couldn't have been more disappointed. How are we to reach the next generations if they aren't welcome at the racetrack? This is straight out of the '70s and does not meet any reasonable standards in racing in 2019. The idea that your children are welcome on the tarmac, but not indoors is absurd. The bathroom is on the opposite side of the facility and your children must walk around the grandstand, past the smoking areas to access any restroom. Whom in racing is watching out for our future? Our needs? Our brand? Our legacy? We can't possibly expect a gaming company to worry about horse racing, so who ensures they do? I have spoken with Flamboro Downs management and I hope they reconsider their decision. We are in business together and I hope our best interests, at some point, intertwine and we can begin to actually operate as partners rather than forced bunkmates. Until then, we need to make our position heard clearly and ensure it is completely understood. Horse racing needs to be enabled to attract a wide swath of mainstream society. The ability for families to come out to the track is vital moving forward. One could see this decision by Flamboro as a simple oversight and one that could be corrected quite easily. Or, it could be a quiet statement of defiance signaling the lack of any interest in supporting racing's future at their facility. Let's hope Flamboro decides that the original statement was a bit premature and short-sighted, and they are indeed truly committed to racing. To be abundantly clear, the decision to close the grandstand building to all children under the age of 19 runs contrary to the current and future best interests of harness racing. And it certainly does not reflect the philosophy of thestable.ca. It undermines our efforts and the harness racing experience we provide for our clients. We operate the fastest-growing fractional ownership stable in North America and the largest harness racing stable in Canada. In 2020, we will have nearly 200 horses owned by more than 800 people. We cannot and will not support last week's announcement by Flamboro Downs in what we categorize as a sharp deviation from any positive horse racing partnership. We will not support racing in this form and NONE of our horses will race at Flamboro Downs if this decision about age restrictions at their facility is not revisited and rectified. We welcome all horsepeople to do the same. We cannot wait for the cavalry. If history is any indicator, they are not coming. This is an issue that Flamboro Downs and our racing stakeholders should be able to resolve together. A day will come when we work together to provide a better experience for all our clients. I want to believe that a resolution can be found and we can continue to build a better industry for all of us. From Anthony MacDonald, President, Co-founder for TheStable.ca
Frederick "Frenchy" Bourgault wins Billings Trot
Hamilton, Ont. Can.--The CKG Billings Harness Driving Series moved north of the border on Sunday, May 26, for a harness racing contest at Flamboro Downs in Hamilton, Ont. There only two Americans who ventured to Canada for the $6000(C) pacing event there which was dominated by the hometowners, who drove six of the eight pacers in the contest. But there was no stopping Frederick "Frenchy" Bourgault when he put his charge,Sly Baran, in high gear as the field approached the three-quarters and they drew-off to a comfortable four-length victory in 1:58.4 over Mr Yokassippi, driven by T. 'Marielle" Enberg. When the starter said "go" Isaac "Izzy" Waxman sent Bettors Mark to the lead but he was challenged on the outside by A Yankee Feeling and driver "Fast Phillipe" Trudeau and the two leaders zipped by the quarter in :28. They kept the pedal to the metal as they passed the halfway point in :57.2. At that point the eventual winner was some six lengths in the rears but up the backside Bourgault wheeled his charge three -deep and they circled all in front of them and rolled home an easy winner. Bettors Mark, after constant pressure, tired in the lane and was overtaken for second money by Ms Enberg's Mr Yokassippi, a 26-1 shot. Owned by Frederick and Richard Bourgault, Sly Baran, a the 6-year altered son of Rambaran , is trained by his driver. He paid $7.80. Last year Bourgault won a Billlings contest at Grand River Raceway. On Monday, May 27, the Canadian Billings action moves north to Woodbine Mohawk for a 10-horse trot later this evening. by John Manzi for the Billings Series
Camluck Classic field finalized, Live draw on Monday
LONDON...The field for this year's $157,000 Camluck Classic has now been finalized. Back to defend his Camluck Classic title in the Ron Burke trainee Rockin Ron. The $1.7 million harness racing winner put together a sizzling performance last year when he set a new track record of 1:50.1. The seven-year-old gelding will have Louis Roy aboard. Rockin Speed, trained by Jared & Joe Seekman, is the final starter for this years rich classic. The son of Rockin Image is fresh off a fourth place finish in the Confederation Cup after finishing second in his elimination. The Indiana Sires Stakes graduate had a mark of 1:50.2 taken this year at Miami Valley. Billy Davis is expected to drive. Rockin Ron --Jake MacDonald photo Also confirmed starters and drivers this year are: Done Well (Dexter Dunn) Ideal Jimmy (Brent Holland) The Wall (Joe Bongiorno) Trump Nation (Jason Bartlett) Sinta (Jody Jamieson) Southwind Amazon (Dave Palone) The post position draw for this year's Camluck Classic will be held live this Monday afternoon on The Raceway pre-game show, which airs at 5:45 p.m. (E.T.). Race fans can tune into a special online broadcast of the Camluck Classic from The Raceway beginning at 10:30 p.m. The one-hour broadcast is part of a three-race series sponsored by the Central Ontario Standardbred Association (COSA). The broadcast will be streamed on the Standardbred Canada website and aired via the Flamboro Downs, Grand River Raceway and Raceway at Western Fair District Facebook pages. Camluck Classic night will also offer a powerful undercard that will include the Ontario Sires Stakes for three-year-old pacing fillies, a quartet of City Of London Series finals and several Preferred races. Visitors will once again have a chance to enjoy the action from the confines of the giant Infield Tent, which was a hit with guests last year. It offers a unique vantage point and entertainment experience with fantastic food and beverage offerings for just $50 plus tax. Tickets to the Infield Event are currently on sale with limited tickets available. The Party on the Patio will be back this year, and bigger and better than ever. Along with the delicious food and beverage offerings that will be available, popular local entertainers Sarina Haggarty and Connor Morand will be on hand performing their unique mix of new material and cover songs throughout the evening. There will be many other contests and giveaways that night with more details to come. To stay up to date on the Camluck Classic and everything happening at The Raceway, visit www.westernfairdistrict.com. Greg Gangle
Only For Justice kicks off OSS season
MAY 19, 2019 - A few raindrops did not put a damper on the 2019 Ontario Sires Stakes season opener Sunday, as the province's top three-year-old colts impressed harness racing fans gathered at Flamboro Downs for the Dundas oval's signature Confederation Cup program. Both the trotting and pacing colts opened their sophomore season Sunday, with the trotters competing in a trio of Gold Series divisions and the pacers duelling in five Grassroots races. Only For Justice set the tempo for the evening in the first race, cruising along on the front end to a 1:56.3 Gold Series victory. Fan favourite, and last year's division champion, Forbidden Trade was three lengths back in second and Archway was well back in third. "That's a big mile here tonight, a real fast back half," said driver Chris Christoforou. "He's very good gaited and good on the turns, he's a nice horse." Campbellville, ON resident Christoforou piloted Only For Justice to the win for trainer Dany Fontaine and owner-breeder Ecurie Gaetan Bono Inc. of Montreal, QC. The win came in the Justice Hall son's first start of the season and was his second lifetime victory in Gold Series action. The gelding also captured a Gold event on the half-mile track at Grand River Raceway as a two-year-old. "Last year, I'm not sure, but I think he might have had the season record on a half-mile track for a two-year-old gelding," said Christoforou, referring to Only For Justice's 1:57.3 score at Grand River Raceway. "I'd like to see him progress through the year, see what happens. He's got a good gait and he's very easy to manoeuver, he does what you want... so far, so good." The second $72,267 Gold division went to Magical Journey and driver Stephen Byron, who hit the wire one-half length ahead of Northern Cavalier and driver Michiel Vanderkemp, matching Only For Justice's 1:56.3 clocking. Jumpshot and driver Daniel Dube rounded out the top three, all of whom took advantage of an early break by favourite Dream Nation. "He raced great," said Matt Bax, who shares ownership of Magical Journey with his father, trainer John Bax, Gaelic Stable of Sharon, ON and Gordon Wright of Charlotte, MI. "We knew that he was really good in the turns, and he's good off the wings, so Steve was going to probably try to get him closer to the front - half-mile racing, if you have that ability you're going to go for it - and Steve gave him a great drive." The win was the second of the season and the first in Ontario Sires Stakes action for Kadabra son Magical Journey, who made three Gold Series starts and three Grassroots starts at two. "At the end of the year he was really starting to figure it out, when we put him away he was strong, so that's translated into this year," said Campbellville resident Bax. "He's a little taller, a little stronger, a little smarter, a little bit of everything." The third Gold division went to Southwind Avenger, who battled to a one length victory over pacesetter Cool Clifford, hitting the wire in 1:55.4. JMR Pinarello was well behind the leaders in third. Trevor Henry crafted the win, from the outside Post 8, for trainer Richard "Nifty" Norman and owners Melvin Hartman of Ottawa, ON, David McDuffee of Delray Beach, FL and Little E LLC of New York, NY. The E L Titan son also won a division of the season opener at two and never finished worse than third in six Gold Series starts during his freshman campaign. Henry also captured the first $22,800 Grassroots division, guiding sophomore pacing colt Sportsline to his fourth straight victory for trainer Jim Watt of Clinton and Harry Parrott of Goderich, ON. The fan favourites cruised along on the front end to a 1:51.4 victory, four lengths ahead of Moonshine Kisses. Gambling Terror was third. The other Grassroots divisions went to Priceless Beach in 1:54.3, Sugartown in 1:52.2, Missile Seelster in 1:55.4 and Better Than Cash in 1:55.2. The Ontario Sires Stakes colts served as the opening act for the $188,500 Confederation Cup Final, featuring nine of the best four-year-old pacers in North America. In the main event, Done Well and driver Dexter Dunn reprised their successful front-end trip from the elimination and claimed the historic Cup with a 1:50.2 clocking for trainer Ron Burke of Fredericktown, PA, Weaver Bruscemi LLC of Canonsburg, PA, Jandt Silva Purnel and Libb of Delray Beach, FL and Wingfield Brothers LLC of Kenton, OH. Last season's OSS champion Jimmy Freight finished second and the other elimination winner, and Done Well's stablemate, Dorsoduro Hanover was third. The sophomore trotting colts will continue their Ontario Sires Stakes Gold season on June 24 and the pacing colts will compete in their second Grassroots event on June 27, both at Woodbine Mohawk Park. The provincial program makes two more stops at Flamboro Downs in the fall, with the three-year-old pacing fillies and the two-year-old trotting fillies wrapping up their Gold season on Sept. 22 and Oct. 2, respectively. Complete results for Flamboro Downs' May 19 Confederation Cup program are available at https://standardbredcanada.ca/racing/results/data/r0519flmdn.dat. OSS Program Information For rules, notices, Program changes, up-to-date point standings, race replays, and more, visit: www.ontariosiresstakes.com OSS Program Administration Ontario Racing
Confed Cup kicks off Facebook Live series
Flamborough, May 17, 2019 - Race fans are reminded that this Sunday night the Confederation Cup from Flamboro Downs will be broadcast live on Facebook beginning at 9:30 p.m. (ET). The one-hour broadcast, part of a three-race series sponsored by the Central Ontario Standardbred Association (COSA), will cover the $188,500 Confederation Cup in race 10 along with the 9th race which is a $23,150 Ontario Sires Stakes Grassroots division for three-year-old filly pacers. Mark McKelvie and Greg Blanchard will be on the desk while Jaimi MacDonald will provide paddock coverage during the show which will be aired via the Flamboro Downs , Grand River Raceway and Raceway at Western Fair District Facebook pages and streamed over the Standardbred Canada website. The next stop in the series will be the $157,000 Camluck Classic on Friday, May 31 at The Raceway with the final show covering the $250,000 (Est) Battle Of Waterloo on Monday, August 5 at Grand River. The Confederation Cup field is a stellar one led by the powerful Ron Burke-trained duo of Dorsoduro Hanover and Done Well, with the latter being installed as the 7-5 morning line choice by virtue of his powerful 1:51.4 elimination victory last Sunday night over an 'off' track. Jimmy Freight, Canada's three-year-old pacing colt of the year in 2018, overcame post 8 in his elimination with a fourth-place finish and has drawn much more favourably in the final, leaving from post position two. Post time for the Confederation Cup program is 6:55 p.m. (ET). Greg Blanchard
'Cup' runneth over for Purnel & Libby
When Purnel Jones Jr. and his wife Libby were looking to partner with other people to buy horses several years ago, Jones called renowned owner Mark Weaver for advice. Instead, Jones ended up with an invitation. Life has not been the same since. Purnel and Libby, who at the time were recently retired after selling their regional oil-and-gas business, were asked if they wanted to join the ownership groups involved with horses trained by Ron Burke, harness racing's leading conditioner for the past 10 years in a row. Burke Racing and Weaver, with his longtime racing colleague Mike Bruscemi, are two-time winners of the sport's Owner of the Year Award. "The first thing I thought of when we were fortunate enough to retire was how I could get back into the business," said Purnel, who followed his father into the sport and had a license to train and drive horses before stepping away from racing to focus on business. "I called Mark Weaver, who I've known for about 10 years, to ask him to point me in the right direction. He said there was a spot opening up in the ownership group and that I was welcomed if I wanted to get in. It was a no-brainer for me. My goodness gracious, you can't beat those guys. They're smart. It's not by accident that Burke and Weaver are so successful, that I can say." In 2018, the Joneses were among the owners of Dorsoduro Hanover and Warrawee Ubeaut, who both were Breeders Crown champions and divisional Dan Patch Award honorees, as well as a third Breeders Crown winner, Percy Bluechip, and stakes-winners Baron Remy and This Is The Plan. "I can't even imagine having a year like that again," Purnel said. "You talk about fun and traveling to the races, it was fantastic. I'm hoping for continued success, but to hope for that (kind of success again) is a little excessive. But you can't rule out anything with Ronnie. He has a great eye for the horses." On Sunday, the Joneses will watch three of their horses compete in the C$188,500 Confederation Cup for 4-year-old pacers at Flamboro Downs. Dorsoduro Hanover and Done Well were elimination winners last weekend. Those two Burke trainees are joined by stablemate This Is The Plan in the nine-horse field. Done Well and driver Dexter Dunn, who captured their elim in 1:51.4 over a sloppy surface, is the 7-5 morning-line favorite from post five while Dorsoduro Hanover, with regular driver Matt Kakaley, is the 5-2 second choice from post one. Dorsoduro Hanover won his elimination, also over a sloppy track, in 1:53.4. The other owners on Done Well are Burke Racing, Weaver Bruscemi, J&T Silva, and Wingfield Brothers. The group owning Dorsoduro Hanover is the same, with the exception of Wingfield Five rather than Wingfield Brothers. This Is The Plan, who finished fifth in his elimination and starts from post eight, is owned by Burke Racing, Weaver Bruscemi, J&T Silva-Purnel & Libby, and Larry Karr. "I thought Done Well was off the hook," Purnel said. "I don't know how much the track changed between the time he raced and Dorsoduro Hanover raced, but you certainly can't be disappointed with (Dorsoduro Hanover's) race either. He's as tough as nails. "We're all excited to see what happens." Done Well ---Norm Files photo Among the Burke trio's competition is Jimmy Freight, who earned the O'Brien Award in Canada for last year's best 3-year-old male pacer. He finished fourth in the elimination won by Dorsoduro Hanover after starting from post eight, a spot that has produced only four winners in 185 pacing races this year. Jimmy Freight and driver Louis Philippe Roy will start Sunday from post two. He is 3-1 on the morning line. "I wasn't that much excited when I saw the draw for the elims, being in my mind in the toughest division and starting from the far outside, but one more time Jimmy didn't disappoint," Roy said. "I'm a little more excited about the draw for the final, I think we're among the three or four horses with the best shot to win. "I haven't seen much difference with (Jimmy Freight) between (ages) 3 and 4," the driver added. "He was and still is the perfect horse on the track, you can do whatever you want with him, smart and perfectly gaited." Jimmy Freight ---Mike Lizzi photo Racing begins at 6:55 p.m. Sunday at Flamboro Downs. Following is the field for the Confederation Cup, which is race 10. PP-Horse-Driver-Trainer-Morning Line 1-Dorsoduro Hanover-Matt Kakaley-Ron Burke-5/2 2-Jimmy Freight-Louis Philippe Roy-Richard Moreau-3/1 3-Pretty Handsome-Jonathan Drury-Andrew McCabe-15/1 4-American History-Sylvain Filion-Tony Alagna-12/1 5-Done Well-Dexter Dunn-Ron Burke-7/5 6-The Downtown Bus-Doug McNair-Jeff Gillis-7/1 7-Rockin Speed-Billy Davis Jr.-Jared Seekman-15/1 8-This Is The Plan-Joe Bongiorno-Ron Burke-20/1 9-Ghost Dance-Randy Waples-Nick Gallucci-4/1 Ken Weingartner Media Relations Manager U.S. Trotting Association www.ustrotting.com
OSS season kicks off Sunday
MAY 16, 2019 - The 46th Ontario Sires Stakes season gets under way this Sunday, May 19 with eight exciting races on the $538,551 Confederation Cup program at Flamboro Downs. Ontario's top three-year-old trotting colts will kick off the Dundas oval's signature event at 6:55 pm with the first Gold Series Leg of the season. Race 1 features last year's champion Forbidden Trade, who makes his sophomore debut from Post 4 for US-based driver Daniel Dube, trainer Luc Blais of Campbellville, ON and owner Determination of Montreal, QC. Louis-Philippe Roy, who earned his first Lampman Cup title in 2018 as the top driver in the Ontario Sires Stakes (OSS) program, will steer last season's number two colt, Dream Nation, from Post 1 in the second $72,267 Gold Series division. "Dream Nation was one horse coming back for his three-year-old season that I was excited to drive again, and so far it looks good for him. We schooled him Monday and he was really solid," said Roy, who steers the Archangel gelding for trainer Jacques Dupont of Repentigny and his partners Ecurie CSL of Sorel-Tracy, Gestion C. Levesque 2005 Inc. of St-Hyacinthe and Marc Camirand of Montreal, QC. "He was good sized at two, but he looks even better to me, bigger and stronger. He drew good for Sunday, and that's a big thing on the half-mile." In addition to Dream Nation, Roy will steer trotting colt Tymal Houdini from Post 3 in the first Gold division. The Guelph, ON resident will also be hoping for success in the three-year-old pacing colt Grassroots season opener, piloting Keystone Prestige from Post 1 in the first $22,800 division, Chanting Hanover from Post 1 in the second split, Sugartown from Post 2 in the third of five divisions and Sports Charm from Post 8 in the last Grassroots battle. The Gold Series colts will battle in Races 1, 4 and 6 while the pacing colts square off in Races 3, 5, 7, 8, and 9. All eight races will serve as an opening act for the main event, the $188,500 Confederation Cup Final, which features nine of the best four-year-old pacing colts and geldings in North America. Roy will steer Jimmy Freight from Post 2 in the rich final, and the driver is expecting the son of Sportswriter to deliver the kind of consistent effort that led him to the OSS sophomore pacing colt division title and a year-end O'Brien Award in 2018. "Jimmy Freight got us qualified for the Confederation Cup final last Sunday with a nice effort (fourth) from the eight-hole," said Roy, who steers the pacer for trainer Richard Moreau of Puslinch and owner Adriano Sorella of Guelph, ON. "I like his chances with the draw; Jimmy never disappointed me." In addition to the thrilling racing, fans will have an opportunity to win one of five shares - including training fees for the remainder of 2019 - in a Thestable.ca racehorse. Complete entries for Flamboro Downs' May 19 Confederation Cup program are available at https://standardbredcanada.ca/racing/entries/data/e0519flmdn.dat. In addition to Sunday's OSS season opener, Flamboro Downs will also host two more Gold events this fall, the three-year-old pacing fillies on Sept. 22 and the two-year-old trotting fillies on Oct. 2. A complete schedule can be found at http://www.ontariosiresstakes.com/schedule/schedule_loc.html#FLMD. OSS Program Information OSS Program Administration Ontario Racing www.ontarioracing.com For rules, notices, Program changes, up-to-date point standings, race replays, and more, visit: www.ontariosiresstakes.com


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Home > Open Source > The Consequences of Open Source Arrogance
The Consequences of Open Source Arrogance
Eugenia Loli 2002-12-20 Open Source 144 Comments
"The Open Source community's answer is to ignore Microsoft's incredible technological lead – because it is proprietary and not a standard – and instead focusses on their own cool thing and self-gratifying cool features, because they think they can do better (which is where the ignorance combined with ego comes in)." Join the discussion at Advogato.
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Childish my ass…..Microsoft = M$ PERIOD. 1) its a lot quicker to type than spelling out the whole word and 2) Any company that is a convicted monopolist, has billions upon billions of cash, and still thinks $900+ for an OS and office suite is a fair price, and is constantly finding new ways to charge business' and consumers more money automatically gets the S replaced with a $
On a side note….with regards to what OSS software is as good or better than Windows counterpart….we cant forget MPlayer. MPlayer just destroys any other media player on any platform. Why is it the best? Cause it can play EVERYTHING…you name it, it can play it. Its also has a very small footprint and is very fast.
1) its a lot quicker to type than spelling out the whole word and
I hope you're joking. Your argument would be a valid justifaction for calling Microsoft MS, not M$. M$ is still the childish/immature/idiotic/whatever way to refer to the company. Abbreviations have nothing to do with it. Seems like your understanding of logic is quite flawed…
I also don't feel like getting into the technical details, and you don't seem too interested in the truth anyway, but it is not illegal to have a monopoly, and as such MS (<–) has not been convicted of such. Maybe you should go back and re-read your Slashdot article.
"One more time, when you pay 0$, you get the amount of quality your money have purchased."
Well more than half the SW I ever bought is from companies that are long gone. The rest might still be here in one form or another, but rapid changes can leave me feeling pretty abandoned sooner or later no matter how much I paid.
> No, that is not correct. But what IS correct is that all
> the BSD innovation occured when BSD was still a research
> project at UCB. So even this isn't a very good example
> of OSS innovation.
Do not agree, just to note: SMPng, KSE, snapshot support for filesystem (not transactions), GEOM (which is abstraction layer for accessing to storage devices: i.e.: you have some very wierd device which can store data and anouther, different wierd device which can store data. If you have drivers for both (I mean hardware drivers), you can merge them via GEOM using appropriate "plugin" to make RAID0 array, for example, or make RAID array from NFS-served storage and external firewire device and USB flash drive, it doesn't matter what is physical layer).
Here you can find detailed description:
http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/Geom/
M$ is and always will be M$. Thats the way it is, if you want to whine about it fine.
"I also don't feel like getting into the technical details, and you don't seem too interested in the truth anyway, but it is not illegal to have a monopoly, and as such MS (<–) has not been convicted of such"
Who says Im not interested in the truth? Im certainly not interested in it from you since you obviously havent followed the case very well. Federal Court ruled that Microsoft……excuse me…M$..ILLEGALLY maintained their monopoly. Since it was established that they BROKE the law with NO APPEAL, the only thing at issue with the recent appelette court was the remedies. And even those are being appealed by Virginia and Massachusetts. Shall we go on….lets talk about why the other states dropped out of the action. Oh ya M$ bought them off. This was widely publicized by several major affiliates recently. I believe the deal was like 7 to 9 million per state to drop out of the appeal of CKs decision.
Regardless, M$ WAS convicted of illegally maintaining their monopoly.
"Have you actually used the version of Netscape that was given to the Mozilla team and then used the current version of Mozilla? I would say quite a bit of innovation has occured."
I've used it (mostly on Windows. But on FreeBSD some). I wasn't all that impressed with it, and the Java support is buggy. I did file a bug report in Bugzilla, but I don't think anything has been done about it yet. (Not a big deal. The Java bugs are more of an annoyance than anything else. Not serious.)
"See my comment on cloned software in my last post. All software is cloned nowdays; even Microsoft's. It doesn't have any bearing on the discussion so please get over it. It is a non-issue."
It's an issue when all you are doing is copying software and not making any improvements on it. There is still inovation in software. For example, Sun's dynamically patchable kernel is pretty inovative.
"I think EMACS sucks and I never use it, however, considering the bloated mess that is VisualStudio, which even includes a kitchen sink, I don't think bloat can be considered as a disqualifying factor."
Well, granted this is opinion here, but I think EMACS sucks. And it goes completely against the UNIX philosophy. As far as VideoStudeo, yes, it sucks too. Give me VIM for my programming editor and I am happy.
"Perl doesn't encourage bad programming, but encourages people to use it by being flexible. If you're a C programmer you can code perl C-Style. If you prefer a different language, perl can acommodate you as well."
Perl does encourage bad programming. Even experienced perl programmers will admit that they often have a hard time figuring out what their own code does when they have to revist it a year later. Perl allows too many shortcuts and stuff that are little used and give you no clue what they do just by looking at the code. With Perl it is far to easy to say "I don't need to comment this because it's obvious what it does." But a year later, it isn't so obvious anymore.
Compare that with say… Python… A language where you can say "I don't need to comment this because it's obvious what it does." and 9 times out of 10, you are right. It is obvious what it does and it is easy to figure it out again when you revisit it a year later.
"Funny, it is exactly the same with all Microsoft products as well. So I plead again, can we please get off of this "clone" focus and discuss something that is relevant?"
I think it is very relevant because OSS software, and particularily the GPL, discourages inovation in software because people can't capitalize on their ideas.
"Try checking out openmosix.sourceforge.net sometime."
Sorry, MOSIX was developed by Hebrew University as an academic research project in supercomputing. It was another gift horse given to the OSS community.
"Do not agree, just to note: SMPng"
Lets remember that FreeBSD didn't get decent SMP support until the BSD/OS code was merged in, which of course, was not developed in an OSS environment.
"I have no saw one recent (meaning less than a year old) benchmark that says Apache is slower than Zeus."
Apache 2 fixed this problem to a certain extent, but not completely.
Apache 1.x was slow by nature because its single threaded programmming caused it to constantly fork. Forking a new process is time consuming.
Apache was hampered even more when running on Linux because Linux has a relatively lame process scheduler. Improvements were made in kernel 2.4, but it is still relatively lame.
"I beg to differ. The only reason why Solaris is better is because of the maturity and the SMP code."
The Solaris kernel device driver mechanism is also superior. As is the fact that it can be dynamically patched on the fly. There is no Linux kernel where you can do that. And the SMP support is a pretty big thing on server platforms. Also, Solaris has a better process scheduler.
"I tried to learn PHP and ASP once, while PHP can accept ASP scripts, pure PHP is very different than ASP."
Remember that you don't have to write your ASP scripts in Visual Basic. That is just the default language. But you can also write them in Java, or any other language which you have support for. I believe IIS has J-Script suppor by default. You just have to specify in the ASP header that you are using J-Script instead of VB.
"Seriously, what these guys have done hacking in their spare time is astonishing."
That doesn't change the fact that it is light years behind MS Office. And to the average person, it isn't very useful. For one, it can't work with Word documents. For anyone who has to colaborate, that is essential. Like it or not, Word is an industry standard and any other word processor that wants to seriously compete needs to have Word support.
StarOffice's word support, on the other hand, is nearly perfect. It even supports revision tracking.
This is an excellent point from a developers point of view. Although Im very happy with the software OSS provides for me, Im really looking forward to the day .NET and Mono are the basis of most windows and linux apps. When that happens, it will be much much easier for ppl and companies to capitalize on their innovations by building great software that is easy to run on/port to any platform. Developers will, for the first time be able to have a nearly identical codebase for their project that will run on windows, linux or unix.
Although its way early in the game, here is an early example of whats in store for developers with (.NET, Mono, C#):
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2017249197.html
> > Do not agree, just to note: SMPng
> Lets remember that FreeBSD didn't get decent SMP support
> until the BSD/OS code was merged in, which of course, was
> not developed in an OSS environment.
SMPng is rewritten implementation of SMP obtained from BSD/OS 5.0.
Please refer to:
http://www.freebsd.org/smp/
Do not agree, just to note: SMPng, KSE, snapshot support for filesystem (not transactions), GEOM (which is abstraction layer for accessing to storage devices
None of those are innovative in the sense that they are something new and original.
SMPng: fine grained locking, woo. Just like virtually every other modern operating system.
KSE: woo, kernel threads. About time.
Sanpshot support: woo, something every other LVM toting OS supports.
GEOM: woo, a proper block layer. /me stares at his Linux based HDD-NFS RAID1 setup.
I'm sure you're stoked that FreeBSD is crawling out of the precambian, but other operating systems proprietary and otherwise have already been there and done that.
>> "Ignorance with ego"
Thru the years I learned some things about human nature. One is that Murphy´s laws apply: the expert ones are those who look less savvy. A corollary is that calling others ignorant reveals ignorance of the accuser.
About ego — well, frankly, my dear… Do you expect us Linux users to get docile and pay Microsoft without questioning? Or maybe the idea is that hipocrisy game of "tolerated, if not promoted, piracy" of MS products?
Nein, danke. Even when free software solutions are worse than their MS equivalents, copy proprietary products annoy my soul — so Microsoft will be "no game" until the day they offer free products for Linux (like Internet Explorer).
Even them they´ll have a hard time, as many programs (Mozilla, Galeon, Opera, Konqueror, among others) already kick IE´s lame ass in lightness, speed, security, features, and overall looks… 😉
Microsoft has lead in the same sense gasoline has lead.
Free or open source software is unleaded.
And, besides, using a MS product will make me look idiotic. Even more!
Obvious flame bait, but I am going to bite it anyway…
Oh really? Is that why FreeBSD benchmarks up to 30% faster than Linux at serving up HTTP requests? Is that why FreeBSD's process scheduler blows Linux's scheduler away? Is that why FreeBSD manages memory better than Linux. And perhaps most telling of all, is that why Warner Brothers chose FreeBSD to render special effects for The Matrix, giving the reason that the Linux software they were using performed better under FreeBSD's Linux ABI layer than it did under native Linux? Come on…. When FreeBSD can run Linux software better than Linux itself can run it, there is a problem here.
"Oh really? Is that why FreeBSD benchmarks up to 30% faster than Linux at serving up HTTP requests? Is that why FreeBSD's process scheduler blows Linux's scheduler away? Is that why FreeBSD manages memory better than Linux. And perhaps most telling of all, is that why Warner Brothers chose FreeBSD to render special effects for The Matrix, giving the reason that the Linux software they were using performed better under FreeBSD's Linux ABI layer than it did under native Linux? Come on…. When FreeBSD can run Linux software better than Linux itself can run it, there is a problem here"
Nearly all of the above issues will be a much different story next year when the 2.6 kernel comes out…rememeber Linux is still the new kid on the block. Despite that, it is rapidly replacing Unix in the market. As far as the Matrix rendering, yawn. Linux has been and will be used to render several movies. Off the top of my head I can think of Titanic and the new StarTrek: Nemesis movie that just came out. Im sure there are several others too.
Dont get me wrong, Ive got nothing against FreeBSD, but Linux is the future.
Is that why FreeBSD benchmarks up to 30% faster than Linux at serving up HTTP requests?
It does? I'm having trouble imaganing under what load, given that it's bio and buffer subsystems are fairly poor and it completely lacks a multithreaded network stack.
Is that why FreeBSD's process scheduler blows Linux's scheduler away?
I really don't think it does. Maybe you can provide us with some relevant benchmarks? FreeBSD's processor scheduler is very simplistic, below the rather dumb stock Linux 2.4 one in many ways. Most certainly a couple of orders of magnitude below Ingos' rather nice O(1) scheduler which most distros are shipping with now. FreeBSD 4 even lacks kernel threads for goodness sake.
Is that why FreeBSD manages memory better than Linux.
FreeBSD's memory management is rather good in low end situations, I'll give you that. Anything out of the ordinary and it's a different story… remember that Linux 2.4 isn't an unstable, newly introduced kernel anymore. It's stable, tested and performant.
Furthermore, the VM in 2.6, like so much in 2.6, is simply top of the class.
And perhaps most telling of all, is that why Warner Brothers chose FreeBSD to render special effects for The Matrix, giving the reason that the Linux software they were using performed better under FreeBSD's Linux ABI layer than it did under native Linux?
Sure, in 1999! Let me repeat: 1999! Since then we've seen Linux clusters adopted by practically every major movie house and Linux clusters appearing in the T500 list.
"Nearly all of the above issues will be a much different story next year when the 2.6 kernel comes out…"
This is called vaporware. I don't care what kernel 2.6 WILL do. What can Linux do for me now?
Under extremely high loads. That's where Linux becomes unstable and where its lame process scheduler starts to bog down.
I've seen FreeBSD servers handle loads that cause 2.4 Linux to crash and burn. Linux is still unstable with very high loads.
Nice. I've seen FreeBSD fall over in a catastrophic deadlock when a process simply malloced too much memory. I've attempted to port sophisticated multithreaded apps to FreeBSD only to be thwarted by the incredibly piss poor thread support.
For every anecdote you have, I can provide a counter. I had, obviously mistakenly, assumed that you had rigorous benchmarks to unerpin your claims.
Granted FreeBSD's thread support sucked until 5.0.
But I wonder if you know how to properly tune FreeBSD? Admitidly, FreeBSD sucks out of the box. Even SysAdmin didn't know how to tune FreeBSD, which is why they ran such a horrible article. SysAdmin didn't even know enough to enable soft updates on the file system.
As far as things being unsubstantiated, I didn't see you back up your claim that FreeBSD is just now coming out of the cambrian era.
The hypocrisy is strong in this one!
So, we can't talk about the features in 2.6, but you can talk about the features in 5.0
@_@
I didn't see you back up your claim that FreeBSD is just now coming out of the cambrian era.
I think I did; all of those features are already present in other operating systems, including Linux, and have been for ages. Only a complete cretin would claim that FreeBSD 4.x – the current production version – isn't lacking in all manner of modern features.
Fine. Accepts heavier loads than Linux? Great!
While I would like to see some numbers — *when the need for such loads come up* — I have no hidden agenda preventing me to recommend FreeBSD to customers.
A few moments ago I searched for "pchealth" in Google and IE executed an illegal operation (I´m at some relatives´ house now). This is totally unexplainable in straightforward terms. It´s like that butterfly moving its wings and causing a storm thousands of kilometers away.
This is a typical example of "technological lead".
I've used it (mostly on Windows. But on FreeBSD some). I wasn't all that impressed with it…
Just curious. What's not to be impressed with. It is more secure than IE, It supports tabbed browsing. It has a decent spam filter. And so on and so on.
It's an issue when all you are doing is copying software and not making any improvements on it.
Such as what. For example, I think ogg vorbis in a huge improvement over MP3. I think that OpenSSH in a huge improvement over its closed source counterpart. In my opinion Zope and OpenACS are an improvement over any of the content management systems I've used under Windows. And the list can go on and on.
Perl does encourage bad programming.
Perl is an inanimate and intangible thing. It cannot sway developers one way or another regarding programming skills. I think this statement is as funny as Sun claiming Java encouraged good programming. Well guess what. There is a hell of a lot more to programming than syntax, and Java doesn't help a lousy programmer become a good program regardless of what Sun says. The same is true in the opposite direction with Perl.
If you can't tell what your software does a year later, then your a lazy programmer who doesn't comment code.
Perl allows too many shortcuts and stuff that are little used and give you no clue what they do just by looking at the code.
That's what comments are for. If you don't use them that's your fault.
Compare that with say… Python…
Python is a very cool language.
Ogg Vorbis, Zope…but I repeat myself…again.
FreeBSD 5.0 does exist for now
5.0-RC2 released. And 5.0-RELEASE will be ~January 10th, 2003
Surprised? http://www.freebsd.org/releng/ will help you
5.0-RC2 released. And 5.0-RELEASE will be ~January 10th, 2003″
Vaporware my ass, its no more vaporware than BSD 5. Kernel 2.6 is available right now too (under the 2.5.xx development tag) just as BSD 5 RC2 is. http://www.kernel.org To call somthing vaporware that has been in development for well over a year, is in feature lock, readily available, and close to an official release doesnt make any sense. Regardless…..2.4.xx kernels r0><0rs
Its pretty sad that you dont care what any future enhancements may bring, but if you must be that way then fine. As far as "What can linux do for me now"….whatever you want. I was simply making a point that 2.6 will do all that the 2.4 kernels can do only much much faster with a lot more features and improvements.
The fact is that discussions (nearly) useless becausa TechLead or not, M$ has the money… stop.
Maybe OpenSource is copying in many ways from M$… The main reason is only to fill the Gap between universal standards existing through many OSes and M$ own standards trying to destroy OS intercomunication (and competion). Extremely obvious. M$ is a company and it will try all can to eliminate competition with all the weapons it its possess (many!).
On the other side M$ with all the minds hired in the last 20 years has copied (implemented? integrated) more from other platforms/OSes than all other together copied from them. From multitasking/threading (existing on game machines like Amiga 10 years before) to Active directories (BeOS?), and so on, and still didn't catch up in some features like datatyping, localisation, simple and unified interapplication scripting for ALL applications on the platform, and, and and….
IE has the most technological advanced SPAM server integrated in it 🙂
5.0 is due out in less than a month and the RC2 is already available. When is kernel 2.6 due out? Not for a hell of a long time yet.
As if Linux versions prior to 2.4 weren't? I mean come on. Linux didn't even have a decent filesystem. ext2fs was crap. And it was dangerous on servers with high transaction load.
It's Java support is buggy, it doesn't render complex pages correctly, and its still fairly crash prone on Windows.
"Perl is an inanimate and intangible thing. It cannot sway developers one way or another regarding programming skills."
Even Eric Raymond, a well known Perl advocate, admitted after trying Python that Perl encourages bad programming, and that someomes he couldn't decypher his own Perl code when he revisted it a year later.
And god forbid you would have to maintain an application written in Perl by another programmer.
"There is a hell of a lot more to programming than syntax, and Java doesn't help a lousy programmer become a good program regardless of what Sun says."
Of course there is. But syntax determines to a great extent how maintainable your code is, especially by others.
"I've seen FreeBSD fall over in a catastrophic deadlock when a process simply malloced too much memory. I've attempted to port sophisticated multithreaded apps to FreeBSD only to be thwarted by the incredibly piss poor thread support."
BTW, I've seen Linux lock up tight because of a buggy paging system. I've seen it do this under even virtually no load.
2.4 has been in production for two years now. Comparing a current production release of one OS to a previous generation production release of another OS just smacks of desperation.
FreeBSD is only now catching up to the features Linux has had for two years or more. Furthermore, 5 is not production ready, and is unlikely to be for a while yet (yes, I've got four machines running it in the lab). Read the FreeBSD 5.0 EAG.
Nobody cares about your anecdotes.
Why are all of you arguing? The very short article that spawned this thread made one point, a point that could be debated.
We know that Microsoft is like a shark, never sleeping or resting, always on the hunt. That is not meant as a bash – when you're number one, you have to do that.
If there is arrogance in the OSS movement, it is the type that must be there. If you are programming or working for OSS in some other capacity, you have to believe that it at least has the potential to be the best. If you did not believe that, then there would be no point in being involved – it would be an act of futility. When participating in something like OSS, one has to have a psychological impetus to keep going, to keep moving ahead.
If a person looks at Microsoft and its Roman like armies or programmers and business tactics, and you want to change this situation, you have to get yourself into a certain state of mind – you have to be a believer. If that seems like arrogance, then so be it. It is better than giving up and surrendering. Diversity in computing is essential and must be there. For OSS to keep moving ahead, those who work in it and support it have to have some 'tude.
Shows how much you know about FreeBSD. RC-2 is available right now, and the official release will be available on January 17th.
And the reverse is also true. Linux is just now catching up to the stability and performance of FreeBSD for server use. That game can be played both ways.
Nobody care's about yours either. So your malloc example on FreeBSD is no better than my example about how Linux can't even manage a swap file correctly.
Read the FreeBSD 5.0 EAG
It basically says, "5.0 is not going to be as stable or even performant as 4.x. For situations where this matters, we recommend you stick with 4.x until 5.2 or so".
Show how much you know about FreeBSD. Zealotry without the facts – gotta love it.
Linux is just now catching up to the stability and performance of FreeBSD for server use. That game can be played both ways.
Says you. Anecdotal rubbish once again…
Wow, give the gimp a cookie.
This is exactly why I said:
Fancy that! I wasn't trying to pass my anecdotes off as fact. You were.
"""Well, granted this is opinion here, but I think EMACS sucks. And it goes completely against the UNIX philosophy."""
How is that? It's composed of a bunch of little reusable lisp utilities that get autoloaded when needed.
The article mentions the critical technologies that Microsoft has and that are greatly innovative. There was a company once that produced an OS (BeOS) that STILL beets Windows XP performance when it comes to handling media. If you don't believe me, download the personal edition and try it (www.bebits.com). It was the first personal computing OS to have a 64-bit journaled FS live incredible live queries, an integrated translation kit, and so on. MS does not match many of its features, and the API is OUTSTANDINGLY easy to use and incredibly powerful. Granted, it does have problems (networking…). My point is that this company (40 employees, at the largest), created revolutionary software. After having programmed under the Win32 API, having used MS technologies for the last 8 years, and having watched their technical progress, I have to say that it is competition like the open-source community (and little companies that deliver superb products) that is the reason for any of MS's technological advances. If it were not for this, I highly doubt Windows would be what it is today. So, be thankful there is an "arrogant" open-source community that a) doesn't agree with the greedy and unjust business practices that MS uses and b) that has enough of a brain in them to know that most MS technologies so far have been way below what they could and should have been.
"It basically says, "5.0 is not going to be as stable or even performant as 4.x. For situations where this matters, we recommend you stick with 4.x until 5.2 or so""
They always say that. So what is your point? They never recommened that people upgrade right away with a major version jump.
Is that why virtually all of the longest uptime servers are a BSD variant? And not a single Linux server made the list?
And you didn't provide any evidence for your claims either. You are the one that first made the claim that FreeBSD is just now getting out the stoneage, and you chose a couple of examples and failed to even mention that there are many areas where FreeBSD is way ahead of Linux.
And as far as mulithreading on FreeBSD, I love your logic… Let's blame the OS for the fact that you don't know how to write a multithreaded app for FreeBSD. Makes a lot of sense.
I run many multithreaded apps on FreeBSD with no problems at all. I have written multithreaded apps for FreeBSD that run just fine.
Autoloaded when needed… heh… Is that why the Emacs binary uses so much memory?
Besides, why would I want an editor/file manager/calendar/email client/web browser/whatever the hell else Emacs can do? To me, Emacs is a a good example of "jack of all trades, master of none." It does a lot of things, but it doesn't do any of them very well.
The basis for writing the article will become clear later next year.
In the mean-time, please consider this: that when ordinary business users need to use a computer, they automatically think (apart from "unreliable") "Microsoft".
Therefore, to break the domination of Microsoft, the answer is to BECOME Microsoft. After you have a fully microsoft compliant suite of tools and software, you can start to enhance and improve, and any attempt to "do better" will simply widen the gap between Open Source and Microsoft, not bridge it.
The longer Open Source leaves DCE/RPC and Microsoft DCE/RPC-based applications to Microsoft's domination, the longer Microsoft has to use them as a strategic base to FURTHER widen the gap.
and the wider the gap gets, the less chance that the ordinary business user will be able to really choose between microsoft and open source systems without taking a significant risk, and you know exactly which way ordinary business users will swing when presented with risk and unknown.
> "The two [OS/2 and NT] share some history and some minor > bits of code, but the two diverged *significantly* well > before the first IBM release of OS/2 (v2.0) in 1992…"
> Their development has certainly diverged in many
> respects, but they share, for example, a filesystem
> (called "NTFS" for New Technology File System by MS
> and "HPFS" for High Performance File System by IBM).
> I'll leave it to you whether you consider a common
> filesystem to be a "minor bit of code."
While NTFS and HPFS share some general implementation concepts, the two are not at all compatible in physical structure, and calling them different implementations of a "common filesystem" is a bit of a stretch.
Besides, Linux can read/write HPFS partitions, and yet it and OS/2 are totally dissimilar in almost all other respects.
In addition, OS/2 2.x/3.x/4.x and WinNT have *completely* different kernels, the GUI API's are different (Win32 vs. PM), OS/2 has the SOM-based WorkPlace Shell as well as REXX integration for both GUI and shell while Windows NT has a silly brain-dead shell, OS/2 has WinOS2 and MVDM subsystems which are totally unlike anything on NT or its derivatives, and OS/2 uses a completely different device driver model.
You might as well claim that Linux, Windows XP, OS/2, and BeOS are the same because they all support the FAT16 filesystem…
I agree that the DCE/RPC issue is very important. I've just kicked out Windows 2000 server in favour of Linux and Samba and it's working great for me (with Windows 2000 clients). It's been liberating in many respects, and there are certainly things I can do which I couldn't before. But it does have its limitations and I can imagine the issues if mine was a larger enterprise to manage. For example, I'd like to see good tools to make LDAP much easier to manage and implement as an basis for authentication and management for some of the great available open-source software (qmail, samba etc), and in a way where it can be an AD server too, including system policy support for 2000/XP. The only tools I know of that are close to fulfilling that are Samba-TNG (which I haven't yet tried) and Gosa which is promising, but at present, imperfect.
I know it's really easy to say it, and a darn site harder for an open-source development team to deliver it – but that would be a hell of boost for *nix to eat into the Windows server market share, and it would be a good standpoint for further growth.
And as for *nix on the desktop, I'd really like to see a gtk2 port of a leaner OpenOffice and this idea of having a groupware app hinging on the XML/RPC backend of phpGroupWare sounds very interesting too (imagine a plugin for Evolution). I'd also like to see the gtk2 toolkit get a bit more *responsive* (Qt and Win32 GDI are still ahead there IMHO), although I'm definitely in the Gnome camp and I think RedHat are right to push it.
Building Bridges: Open source according to Microsoft
March 1, 2012	• 29 Comments
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