If I plan to buy a car in cash, should I let the dealer know?
Ideally you would negotiate a car price without ever mentioning: And other factors that affect the price. You and the dealer would then negotiate a true price for the car, followed by the application of rebates, followed by negotiating for the loan if there is to be one. In practice this rarely happens. The sales rep asks point blank what rebates you qualify for (by asking get-to-know-you questions like where you work or if you served in the armed forces - you may not realize that these are do-you-qualify-for-a-rebate questions) before you've even chosen a model. They take that into account right from the beginning, along with whether they'll make a profit lending you money, or have to spend something to subsidize your zero percent loan. However unlike your veteran's status, your loan intentions are changeable. So when you get to the end you can ask if the price could be improved by paying cash. Or you could try putting the negotiated price on a credit card, and when they don't like that, ask for a further discount to stop you from using the credit card and paying cash. "Yes you tell them.  I can say that I pay cash for all my cars and always get cars for lower than the TrueCar low-end.  There are basically two steps: go test drive, negotiate fully, leave (unless you are given a mind-blowing offer).  This may take you one to many dealerships.  It depends on how well you know what car you want and how much a dealership will negotiate.   you pick a night that another dealership that specifically has the car you want (or multiple - even better) is open and you go in 30-45 mins before they close.   Paying cash is key for this to work.  By the time you get to numbers they will be almost closed.  Their finance guy might be gone so you will get your salesman and a manager.  I will use my last car as an example.  Toyota Highlander 2015 with MSRB 32,995.  TrueCar at 29,795 with a good deal at 29,400.  I simply talked to my sales guy said I would like to walk out with the car tonight.  I have already talked to XYZ dealership and they offered me 28,500 - which is already below TrueCar low price.   I asked for $27,900.  Boom 10 minutes later car bought at 28,100. Cash is king.  The sales guy and manager will bite the bullet on profit for ease of sale.  Going in late is the key to using the cash.  You don't have the finance guys jumping in and you have less people to move through.  Also they know they have limited time to deal and if you walk off the lot there is less than 10% chance of you coming back - they want to close.  They are making minimal profit but doing minimal work.  With cash your sales guy is on your side because you are basically throwing him a couple hundred dollars at the end of a shift (where most would just be sitting around watching TV). Some other tips: be fair.  If they would have said 28,300 is our lowest that we can go and that's it.  I probably would have still got the car.  Dealerships will tell you their lowest price if you are close and you are still below it. since they didn't show me their lowest price I didn't budge much but still budged a bit to show good sport.   They brought their invoice number out to show that at 28,100 that they were going to lose $1500 on the car.  I made the manager laugh because my response was to bring up KBB and show the used car price for the car, which was minus $2000.  So I just said, ""Well you lost $1500 but I lose $2000 driving this off the lot.""  I then went back to $27,850 to meet in the middle of ""losing"" money.  This actually closed the deal.  Anyway don't ever believe any piece of paper they show you with numbers.  These dealerships get monthly bonuses on sales and that is a lot of their profit past selling your trade-in. If you actually value your money you would never be trading in a car to a dealer so if you are paying cash, sell your own car or at least take it to a place like CarMax which I don't endorse but better than dealer." "Ditto other answers, but I'd add there's a lot of psychology going on in a sale. If you're paying cash, you presumably have a pretty fixed upper limit on what you can spend. But if you're getting a loan, a large increase in the price of the car may sound like just a small addition to the monthly payment. Also, these days dealers often try to roll ""extended warranties"" into the loan payment. Most people can't calculate loan amortizations in their heads -- I'm pretty good at math, and I need a calculator to work it out, assuming I remember or wrote down the formula -- a dealer can often stick a piece of paper in front of you saying ""Loan payment: $X per month"" with fine print that says that includes $50 for the extended warranty, and most people would just say, ""oh, okay""." If you buy a car using a loan, the dealer gets benefited by the financing institution by the way of referring fee paid to the dealer by the institution, and that too if the dealer has helped in financing the purchase. Otherwise for the dealer it doesn't matter if one pays in full or through financing. The dealer is paid in full in either cases. Hence the dealer may slightly get disappointed that you are not taking a loan. In the UK at least, dealers definitely want you to take finance. They get benefits from the bank (which are not insubstantial) for doing this; these benefits translate directly to increased commission and internal rewards for the individual salesman. It's conceivable that the salesman will be less inclined to put himself out for you in any way by sweetening your deal as much as you'd like, if he's not going to get incentives out of it. Indeed, since he's taking a hit on his commission from you paying in cash, it's in his best interests to perhaps be firmer with you during price negotiation. So, will the salesman be frustrated with you if you choose to pay in cash? Yes, absolutely, though this may manifest in different ways. In some cases the dealer will offer to pay off the finance for you allowing you to pay directly in cash while the dealer still gets the bank referral reward, so that everyone wins. This is a behind-the-scenes secret in the industry which is not made public for obvious reasons (it's arguably verging on fraud). If the salesman likes you and trusts you then you may be able to get such an arrangement. If this does not seem likely to occur, I would not go out of my way to disclose that I am planning to pay with cash. That being said, you'll usually be asked very early on whether you are seeking to pay cash or credit (the salesman wants to know for the reasons outlined above) and there is little use lying about it when you're shortly going to have to come clean anyway.
I think you are a little confused. If you have 10.000€ in cash for a car, but you decide instead to invest that money and take out a loan for the car at 2,75% interest, you would have to withdraw/sell 178€ each month from your investment to make your loan payment. If you made exactly 2,75% on your investment, you would be left with 0€ in your investment when the loan was paid off.  If your investment did better than 2,75%, you would come out ahead, and if your investment did worse than 2,75%, you would have lost money on your decision. Having said all that, I don't recommend borrowing money to buy a car, especially if you have that amount of cash set aside for the car.  Here are some of the reasons: Sometimes people feel better about spending large amounts of money if they can pay it off over time, rather than spending it all at once.  They tell themselves that they will come out ahead with their investments, or they will be earning more later, or some other story to make themselves feel better about overspending.  If getting the loan is allowing you to spend more money on a car than you would spend if you were paying cash, then you will not come out ahead by investing; you would be better off to spend a smaller amount of money now. I don't know where you are in the world, but where I come from, you cannot get a guaranteed investment that pays 2,75%.  So there will be risk involved; if the next year is a bad one for your investment, then your investment losses combined with your withdrawals for your car payments could empty your investment before the car is paid off.  Conversely, by skipping the 2,75% loan and paying cash for your car, you have essentially made a guaranteed 2,75% on this money, comparatively speaking. I don't know what the going rate is for car loans where you are, but often car dealers will give you a low loan rate in exchange for a higher sales price.  As a result, you might think that you can easily invest and beat the loan rate, but it is a false comparison because you overpaid for the car. "You are correct to be wary. Car dealerships make money selling cars, and use many tactics and advertisements to entice you to come into their showroom. ""We are in desperate need of [insert your make, model, year and color]! We have several people who want that exact car you have! Come in and sell it to us and buy a new car at a great price! We'll give you so much money on your trade in!"" In reality, they play a shell game and have you focus on your monthly payment. By extending the loan to 4 or 5 years (or longer), they can make your monthly payment lower, sure, but the total amount paid is much higher. You're right: it's not in your best interest. Buy a car and drive it into the ground. Being free of car payments is a luxury!" If a shop offers 0% interest for purchase, someone is paying for it. e.g., If you buy a $X item at 0% interest for 12 months, you should be able to negotiate a lower cash price for that purchase. If the store is paying 3% to the lender, then techincally, you should be able to bring the price down by at least 2% to 3% if you pay cash upfront. I'm not sure how it works in other countries or other purchases, but I negotiated my car purchase for the dealer's low interest rate deal, and then re-negotiated with my preapproved loan. Saved a good chunk on that final price! "If you were making that large of a payment (via a cashiers check or other   withdrawal means from a cash account)   to a credit card, would the payment   generate a Cash Transaction Report? Probably, yes. If it does require the bank to make a CTR, then is there any harm in   that or anything to be concerned about   (like that transaction appearing   suspicious, personal reporting   implications, etc.)? Are there any   other reasons why one might want to   make sure payments to a credit card   are broken up made* in amounts smaller   than $10K? You should be concerned if you cannot explain the source of the money (legally...). If you withdrew cash from your own account and paid your credit card with it, in case of questions asked you can show the account statement with the matching withdrawal, and you're done. The point in this report is to point at people who move around large amounts of cash. Usually, people pay credit cards with checks or ACH transactions, but if you want cash - it's your right, as long as the cash was obtained legally. But if you're paying your credit cards off with the cash you got as a bribe or by selling cocaine on the streets, then you should be worried. By the way, breaking into smaller payments may not save you from being reported to the money laundering detection agencies. The report is per transaction, not per payment, so if the credit card statement is $11K and you pay $5K and $6K - the transaction is still $11K. Also, the bank can file a report even if it is not required (it was clarified in the other answer to the same question you're referring to), if the clerk thinks the transaction is suspicious. This leaves the decision on filing a report solely on the banks ""common sense"" and internal policies which you don't know. So even paying $10 in cash may trigger a report if the bank suspects wrongdoing." The car dealership doesn't care where you get the cash; they care about it becoming their money immediately and with no risk or complications. Any loan or other arrangements you make to raise the cash is Your Problem, not theirs, unless you arrange the loan through them. 1) How long have you had the car?  Generally, accounts that last more than a year are kept on your credit report for 7 years, while accounts that last less than a year are only kept about 2 years (IIRC - could someone correct me if that last number is wrong?). 2) Who is the financing through?  If it's through a used car dealer, there's a good chance they're not even reporting it to the credit bureaus (I had this happen to me; the dealer promised he'd report the loan so it would help my credit, I made my payments on time every time, and... nothing ever showed up.  It pissed me off, because another positive account on my credit report would have really helped my score).  Banks and brand name dealers are more likely to report the loan. 3) What are your expected long term gains on the stocks you're considering selling, and will you have to pay capital gains on them when you do sell them?  The cost of selling those stocks could possibly be higher than the gain from paying off the car, so you'll want to run the numbers for a couple different scenarios (optimistic growth, pessimistic, etc) and see if you come out ahead or not. 4) Are there prepayment penalties or costs associated with paying off the car loan early?  Most reputable financiers won't include such terms (or they'll only be in effect during the first few months of the loan), but again it depends on who the loan is through. In short: it depends.  I know people hate hearing answers like that, but it's true :)  Hopefully though, you'll be able to sit down and look at the specifics of your situation and make an informed decision. "A while back I sold cars for a living.  Over the course of 4 years I worked for 3 different dealerships.  I sold new cars at 2 and used at the last one. When selling new cars I found that the majority of people buying the higher end cars honestly shouldn't have been - 80%+.  They almost always came in owing more on their trades then they were worth, put down very little cash and were close to being financially strapped.   From a financial perspective these deals were hard to close, not because the buyer was picky but rather because their finances were a mess.  Fully half, and probably more, we had to switch from the car they initially wanted down to a much cheaper version or try to convert to a lease because it was the only way the bank would loan the money.  We called them ""$30,000 millionaires"" because they didn't make a whole lot but tried to look like they did.  As a salesman you knew you were in serious trouble when they didn't even try to negotiate. Around 2% of the deals I did were actual cash deals - meaning honest cash, not those who came in with a pre-approved loan from a bank.  These were invariably for used cars about 3 to 4 years old and they never had a trade in.  The people doing this always looked comfortable but never dressed up, you wouldn't even look at them twice.  The negotiations were hard because they knew exactly how much that car should go for and wouldn't even pay that.   It was obvious they knew the value of money. That said, I've been in the top 3% of wage earners for about 20 years and at no point have I considered myself in a position to ""afford"" a new ""luxury"" car.  IMHO, there are far more important things you can do with that kind of money." "I have a very simple rule. For anything other than trivial purchases (a small fraction of my monthly income), the only final decision I will make in the presence of a salesperson is ""No"". After I have the terms nailed down, and still feel that I am likely to buy the item, I leave the store, car dealership etc., and think about it by myself. Often, I go to a mall coffee shop to do the thinking. If it is really big, I sleep on it and make my decision the next day. Once I have made my decision, I inform the salesperson. If the decision is ""No"" I do not discuss my reasons - that gives them an overcome-the-objection lever. I just tell them I have decided not to buy the item, which is all they need to know." "Unfortunately, it's not unusual enough.  If you're looking for a popular car and the dealer wants to make sure they aren't holding onto inventory without a guarantee for sale, then it's a not completely unreasonable request.  You'll want to make sure that the deposit is on credit card, not cash or check, so you can dispute if an issue arises.   Really though, most dealers don't do this, requiring a deposit, pre sale is usually one of those hardball negotiating tactics where the dealer wrangles you into a deal, even if they don't have a good deal to make.  Dealers may tell you that you can't get your deposit back, even if they don't have the car you agreed on or the deal they agreed to.  You do have a right for your deposit back if you haven't completed the transaction, but it can be difficult if they don't want to give you your money back.  The dealer doesn't ever ""not know if they have that specific vehicle in stock"".  The dealer keeps comprehensive searchable records for every vehicle, it's good for sales and it's required for tax records.  Even when they didn't use computers for all this, the entire inventory is a log book or phone call away. In my opinion, I would never exchange anything with the dealer without a car actually attached to the deal.  I'd put down a deposit on a car transfer if I were handed a VIN and verified that it had all the exact options that we agreed upon, and even then I'd be very cautious about the condition." "I love John's answer, but I just can't help myself from adding my 2 cents, even though it's over 5 years later. I sold cars for a while in the late 90s, and I mostly agree with John's answer. Where I disagree though, is that where I worked, the salesperson did not have ANY authority to make a sale. A sales manager was required to sign off on every sale. That doesn't mean that the manager had to interact with the buyer, that could all be handled behind the scenes, but the pricing and even much of the negotiating strategies were dictated by the sales managers. Some of the seasoned salespeople would estimate numbers on their own, but occasionally you'd hear the managers still chew them out with ""I wish you wouldn't have said that"". Of course, every dealership is different. Additional purchase advice: There is a strategy that can work well for the buyer, but only in scenarios where the salesperson is trying to prevent you from leaving. They may start interrupting you as you are packing up, or blocking your path to the door, or even begging. If this happens, they are obviously desperate for whatever reason. In this case, if you came prepared with research on a good price that you are comfortable with, then shoot lower and hold firm to the point of near exhaustion. Not so low that that they realize you're too far away- they will let you leave at that point. It needs to be within a reasonable amount, perhaps at most 1-2% of the purchase price. Once you detect the salesperson is desperate, you finally move up to your goal number or possibly a little lower. Typically the salesperson will be so happy to have gotten you to move at all that they'll accept. And if the managers are fed up too (like 45 minutes after close), they'll accept too. I saw this happen multiple times in a high pressure scenario. I also used it once myself as a buyer. If you are planning to purchase options that can be added at the dealer rather than from the factory, keep them up your sleeve at first. Get your negotiations down to where you are a little further apart than the invoice price of the option, then make your move. For example, suppose the option you want retails for $350 with an invoice of $300. Get within about $400 of the dealer. Then offer to pay their price, but only if they throw in the option you want. This will throw them completely off guard because they didn't expect it and all of their calculations were based on without it. If they say yes, you effectively moved $100 and they moved $300. It's much more likely that they'll agree to this than taking $300 off the price of the car. (I'm guessing the reason for this is partially due to how their accounting works with sticker price vs aftermarket price, and partially psychological.) Note, this works best with new cars, and make sure you only do this if it's for items they can add after the fact. Even if they don't have the part in stock it's ok, they can give you an IOU. But if the option requires a car change to something they don't have on the lot, it will probably just make them mad." The only issue I can see is that the stranger is looking to undervalue their purchase to save money on taxes/registration (if applicable in your state). Buying items with cash such as cars, boats, etc in the used market isn't all that uncommon* - I've done it several times (though not at the 10k mark, more along about half of that). As to the counterfeit issue, there are a couple avenues you can pursue to verify the money is real: *it's the preferred means of payment advocated by some prominent personal financial folks, including Dave Ramsey "It sounds like you're basing your understanding of your options regarding financing (and even if you need a car) on what the car salesman told you.  It's important to remember that a car salesman will do anything and say anything to get you to buy a car. Saying something as simple as, ""You have a low credit score, but we can still help you."" can encourage someone who does not realize that the car salesman is not a financial advisor to make the purchase. In conclusion," If they bring cash, meet at your bank to verify. If they want to use cashiers check, meet them at their bank. Large amounts use wires directly to your acct and verify (not only received, but deposited) before handing over the title/keys. Very generally speaking if you have a loan, in which something is used as collateral, the leader will likely require you to insure that collateral.   In your case that would be a car.  Yes certainly a lender will require you to insure the vehicle that they finance (Toyota or otherwise).  Of course, if you purchase a vehicle for cash (which is advisable anyway), then the insurance option is somewhat yours. Some states may require that a certain amount of coverage is carried on a registered vehicle.  However, you may be able to drop the collision, rental car, and other options from your policy saving you some money. So you buy a new car for cash ($25K or so) and store the thing.  What happens if the car suffers damage during storage?  Are you willing to save a few dollars to have the loss of an asset?  You will have to insure the thing in some way and I bet if you buy the proper policy the amount save will be very minimal. Sure you could drop the road side assistance, rental car, and some other options, during your storage time but that probably will not amount to a lot of money. "You can greatly reduce the risk if you can line up a buyer prior to purchasing the car.  That kind of thing is common in business, one example is drop shipping.  Also there are sales companies that specialize in these kinds of things bringing manufacturers of goods together with customers.  The sales companies never take delivery of the product, just a commission on the sales.   From this the manufacturers are served as they have gained a customer for their goods.  The buying company is served as they can make a ""better"" end product.  The two parties may have not been brought together had it not been for the sales company so on some level both are happy to pay for the service. Can you find market inequalities and profit from them?  Sure.  I missed a great opportunity recently.  I purchased a name brand shirt from a discount store for $20.  Those shirts typically sell on ebay for $80.  I should have cleaned out that store's inventory, and I bet someone else did as by the time I went back they were gone.   That kind of thing was almost risk-less because if the shirts did not sell, I could simply return them for the full purchase price.  That and I can afford to buy a few hundred dollars worth of shirts. Can you afford to float 45K CDN?  What if it takes a year to sell the car?  What if the economy goes sour and you are left ""holding the bag""?  Why are not car dealers doing exactly what you propose? Here in the US this type of thing is called ""horse trading"" and is very common.  I've both lost and made money on these kind of deals.  I would never put a significant amount of my net worth at risk."