Is it a bad idea to buy a motorcycle with a lien on it?
In the case of a vehicle with a lien, there is a specific place on the title to have a lien holder listed, and the holder of the lien will also hold the title until the lien is cleared. Usually this means you have to pay off the loan when you purchase the vehicle. If that loan is held by a bank, meet the seller at the bank and pay the loan directly with them and have them send the title directly to you when the loan is paid. This usually involves writing up a bill of sale to give to the bank when paying the loan. The only thing you're trying to avoid here is paying cash to the seller--who then keeps the cash without paying the lien holder--who then keeps the title and repossesses the motorcycle. Don't pay the seller if they don't have the title ready to sign over to you. It's extra work for you to purchase a vehicle that has an outstanding lien on it. It's not uncommon, but there are things to take care of and watch out for. Really, all it means is that the vehicle you're trying to purchase hasn't been paid for in full by the current owner. Where things can get dodgy is ensuring that all outstanding debts are paid against the vehicle at the time you take ownership of it, otherwise the owners of those debts could still reclaim the vehicle.  Here's a good article about making this kind of purchase. A lien is a mechanism to impede legal title transfer of a vehicle, real property, or sometimes, expensive business equipment.  That's why title companies exist - to make sure there are no liens against something before a buyer hands money to a seller. The lien can be attached to a loan, unpaid labor related to the item (a mechanic's lien) or unpaid taxes, and there are other scenarios where this could occur. The gist of all this is that the seller of the vehicle mentioned does not have clear title if there is a lien.  This introduces a risk for the buyer.  The buyer can pay the seller the money to cover the lien (in the case of a bank loan) but that doesn't mean the seller will actually pay off the loan (so the title is never clear!).  This article recommends visiting the bank with the seller, and getting title on-the-spot.  However, this isn't always an option, as a local bank branch isn't probably going to have the title document available, though the seller might be able to make some arrangement for a local branch to have the title available before a visit to pay off the loan. The low-risk approach is for the seller to have clear title before any money changes hands.
&gt; Am I over simplifying things?  Yes.  Insurance, property taxes, water/sewer taxes, legal fees, upkeep/maintenance, and mortgage insurance premiums should be included in your expense model.  This is in addition to principal repayment at your loan's interest rate.    &gt; or could somebody with more experience clue me in to why this is a bad investment?  The answer depends on your financial ability to pay and the area in which you are seeking to buy.  A lot of factors, actually. Well, if someone who owes me money defaults, I lose the money he promised to pay me.    To me that would be a huge moral obstacle for declaring myself bankrupt.  I was raised in believing that you keep your promises. Owing money to family members can create serious problems. Taking out a purchase-money mortgage to pay your sister for her share is the best way to avoid future friction and, possibly, outright alienation. A mortgage will show as a lien on your property. Say your home is worth 400,000 (money units) but you only owe 200,000. A lender may be willing to be second in line, lending you another 100,000. "I really don't feel co-signing this loan is in the best interests of either of us.  Lets talk about the amount of money you need and perhaps I can assist you in another way. I would be honest and tell them it isn't a good deal for anybody, especially not me.  I would then offer an alternative ""loan"" of some amount of money to help them get financing on their own.  The key here is the ""loan"" I offer is really a gift and should it ever be returned I would be floored and overjoyed.  I wouldn't give more than I can afford to not have. Part of why I'd be honest to spread the good word about responsible money handling.  Co-signed loans (and many loans themselves) probably aren't good financial policy if not a life & death or emergency situation.  If they get mad at me it won't matter too much because they are family and that won't change." If you know that you have a reasonable credit history, and you know that your FICO score is in the 690-neighborhood, and the dealer tells you that you have no credit history, then you also know one of two things: Either way, you should walk away from the deal.  If the dealer is willing to lie to you about your credit score, the dealer is also willing to give you a bad deal in other respects. Consider buying a cheaper used car that has been checked out by a mechanic of your choice.  If possible, pay cash; if not, borrow as small an amount as possible from a credit union, bank, or even a very low-interest rate credit card.  (Credit cards force you to pay off the loan quickly, and do not tie up your car title.  I still have not managed to get my credit union loan off of my car title, ten years after I paid it off.) "Seems to me you don't have a ton of great choices, but of them: Keep going as you are.  If/when the car becomes unusable without significant expenses, stop using it.  Buy another junker and use that to get by until your loan is paid off.  From now until then, put aside a few hundred (or whatever you can, if more) each month towards the anticipated purchase.  When you do buy this junker, pay in cash - no loan.  Just get something that will take you to work, and that includes ""bike"" if that's a possibility.  When you can, sell the no longer usable car to finish paying off the loan. Start aggressively paying off the current loan, with the eye of getting it down to where you're not underwater anymore.  Then sell the car and dispose of the loan, and buy a better replacement.  Scrimp and save and cut everything - eat cheaply (and never out), cut your personal expenses everywhere you can.  If you get another $250 a month towards principal, you can probably be no-longer-underwater in about a year. Get a personal loan today for the amount that you're underwater, and immediately sell the car.  This gets you out of the loan and car the quickest, and if you think the car will devalue significantly between now and when you might be not underwater anymore, this might be the best option.  But it's the most expensive, likely - you'll pay 12% to 20% on the difference.  Now, 12% of $5000 is less than 5% of 15000, so it might actually be a good financial deal - but you'll probably have to shop around to get 12-15% with a 660 (though it's probably possible).  You'll still be without a car at this point, though, so you'd have to buy another one (or live without for a while), and you'd still have a payment of some sort, but perhaps a more manageable one ($5000 @ 12% @ 5 years means something a bit over $100 a month, for example.) I recommend that if you can get by without a car for a while, option 2 is your best bet.  All of these will require some financial care for a while, and probably cutting back on expenses for a year or two; but realistically, you shouldn't expect anything else.  Get a budgeting app if it will help see how to do this. As far as getting out of the loan without paying it, I don't recommend that at all.  Your credit will be ruined for at least seven years, and 660 is not bad at all really, and then would take  yet more years to recover.  You will likely be sued for the balance plus collection costs, beyond repossession.  The consequences would be far, far worse than just paying it off, and I mean that financially as well as ethically." Not a good idea, the bank is a lean holder unless you deduct the remainder of the loan from the purchase price you will end up paying much more. Tell the seller to pay off the loan and provide you a clean title. Btw unless you're getting the deal of the century I'd walk away until I saw a clean title What's really worrisome is that people are buying larger and more expensive vehicles. People look at longer terms as an opportunity to buy something they really shouldn't be since hey, I can take it for two more years for the same payment. The only issue I can see is that the stranger is looking to undervalue their purchase to save money on taxes/registration (if applicable in your state). Buying items with cash such as cars, boats, etc in the used market isn't all that uncommon* - I've done it several times (though not at the 10k mark, more along about half of that). As to the counterfeit issue, there are a couple avenues you can pursue to verify the money is real: *it's the preferred means of payment advocated by some prominent personal financial folks, including Dave Ramsey The loan is private, so the business is more of a red-herring. The fact that you're closing it and lost a lot of money explains the loan, but is rather irrelevant otherwise as the loan is personal. Do consider potential tax benefits on writing off a loss, talk to a local tax adviser on that. Pros: Cons: I'm sure there are more considerations, of course, and I'm not familiar with the Canadian social safety nets to understand how much of a damage con #1 would be. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and any agreement between you and your grandfather is covered under the uniform commercial code covering contracts.  As long as your fulfilling your obligation of making payments, the contract stands as originally agreed upon between you and the lender.  In short, the car is yours until you miss payments, sell it, or it gets totalled.  The fact that your upside down on value to debt isn't that big of a deal as long as you have insurance that is covering what is owed. If you need to procure of motorcycle shipping facilities, then look for the one that knows not only to render your motorcycle on the specified place and date, however even one that knows how to take proper care of it. In fact you would not like for your motorbike to have marks on it and certain dents during the transit. "Any sensible lender will require a lean lien against your formerly-free-and-clear property, and will likely require an appraisal of the property. The lender is free to reject the deal if the house is in any way not fitting their underwriting requirements; examples of such situations would be if the house is in a flood/emergency zone, in a declining area, an unusual property (and therefore hard to compare to other properties), not in salable condition (so even if they foreclose on it they'd have a questionable ability to get their money back), and so forth. Some lenders won't accept mobile homes (manufactured housing) as collateral, for instance, and also if the lender agrees they may also require insurance on the property to be maintained so they can ensure that a terrible fate doesn't befall both properties at one time (as happens occasionally). On the downside, in my experience (in the US) lenders will often require a lower loan percentage than a comparable cash down deal. An example I encountered was that the lender would happily provide 90% loan-to-value if a cash down payment was provided, but would not go above 75% LTV if real estate was provided instead. These sort of deals are especially common in cases of new construction, where people often own the land outright and want to use it as collateral for the building of a home on that same land, but it's not uncommon in any case (just less common than cash down deals). Depending on where you live and where you want to buy vs where the property you already own is located, I'd suggest just directly talking to where you want to first consider getting a quote for financing. This is not an especially exotic transaction, so the loan officer should be able to direct you if they accept such deals and what their conditions are for such arrangements. On the upside, many lenders still treat the LTV% to calculate their rate quote the same no matter where the ""down payment"" is coming from, with the lower the LTV the lower the interest rate they'll be willing to quote. Some lenders might not, and some might require extra closing fees - you may need to shop around. You might also want to get a comparative quote on getting a direct mortgage on the old property and putting the cash as down payment on the new property, thus keeping the two properties legally separate and giving you some ""walk away"" options that aren't possible otherwise.  I'd advise you to talk with your lenders directly and shop around a few places and see how the two alternatives compare. They might be similar, or one might be a hugely better deal! Underwriting requirements can change quickly and can vary even within individual regions, so it's not really possible to say once-and-for-all which is the better way to go." Your over-thinking this.  As long as the owner has the title and the vehicle is titled in there name they can sign it over to you then you can take it to the DMV and put it in your name. If they do not own the vehicle because they are still making payments then you will also need the signature from their bank or lien holder. You can ask to see their ID to verify they are the owner marked on the title. I've bought ~10 vehicles in the last 5 years and never had a problem doing it this way, my experiences have all been in California.