 :Yup, I've been forced into silence again.  :Tim, I didnt even know that AfD was going on. I dont think there are any reliable sources for that article. Many of these family articles often have sources which dont mention the subject of the article at all, or mention it only in passing. I saw that happening in Antoni Dunin and I suspect the same will be true for this article also.  :This is for those who are working on this article and others like it: the reason why the article probably wont get deleted (no consensus) is because its made to 'look' notable. The way to deal with such articles is to first take out unsourced OR. As per Jimbo and WP:RS, everything must be sourced to reliable sources, or it is original research. This is the first central problem of these articles that must be dealt with, otherwise the 'apparent notability' will not let people see whats really going on. Take out any OR which cannot be sourced. There is simply no way around it. Good luck.  • 