   - Jade Knight, I just want to be clear.  It's your position that the Italian fencing tradition that started with Fiore, continued through Vadi, Manciolino, Marrozzo, Agrippa, Di Grassi, Fabris, Giganti, and Alfieri is completely unrelated to Parise unless a master-to-master lineage is demonstratable?  Is that correct?  That's your position even though all factual evidence points to the contrary?    Maybe aliens showed up in Naples and taught them fencing that was strangely similar to all the fencing used before, with the same terminology, but was actually in no way related!  Maybe it's Intelligent Design applied to fencing?  God made them fence that way?  It's your belief that the classical Italian tradition appeared out of nowhere?  It's your position that classical Italian fencing is in no way a part of the living tradition of Italian swordplay?  Because at the point you admit that it **might** be, your argument collapses.   Even then, the motivation for making such a statement is entirely suspect.  It's a weak and self-serving argument and you know it.  It is a convenient straw man argument to divert attention away from the documentable fact that Clements has no instruction within the Italian tradition.  He's at best an amateur passing himself off as a guru without any teaching credentials and trying to raise his own status by casting doubt on people with legitmate certification.  There are plenty of talented amateur instructors out there teaching great fencing, but none of them employs the same forms of venomous personal attacks that Clements has become known for.  The real issue is the need to drag down others to prop-up Clements.  It's a damn shame because if ARMA had a few less monkeys at the top of the tree, they might be taken seriously as an organization.  There are plenty of ARMA practitioners that are good people, but until ARMA regains the confidence of the rest of the community, they will continue to be pariahs.  When Clements (and his attitude, and his safety record) is gone, that may happen. 