`  == Wikiportal:Ukraine ==  I like it! One question: you mentioned boards on my talk page... where are they?  :Just look at several windows at the portal. In one window at the right-hand side you will see ``new article announcement board`` and ``Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board``. Also, use Portal's own talk page to discuss portal itself. Add all these to your watchlist. Feel free to update any window and, especially, current news. Finally, don't be afraid to screw up. Anything can be easily reverted by you or anyone else. Regards,  July 7, 2005 05:33 (UTC)  See Wikipedia talk:Wikiportal/Ukraine re double edit.  7 July 2005 06:46 (UTC).  == Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine == I also very well understand what is behind your editings and would like to remind you that Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine. Any wrong information should be removed from the articles and, be sure, it will be removed. This my positive contribution to the Wikipedia. It improves the quality of the resource, because wrong information is much worse than lack of information. If you are not agree and would like put the information back, please folow the Wikipedia_official_policy and cite a cite credible sources. Switch yourself to a constructive work, it will help you to find mutural understanding with most of Wikipedians, including myself.   ::Couldn't agree more...   You both must really have guts to say this. I mean that's funny who's talking about propaganda machine.    ::Well, it simply seems that providing no sources when asked to is nothing uncommon in your modus operandi. Or am I wrong? (BTW, no offence intended, just a friendly note).   Halibutt, you may turn this into an ethics dispute if you want. I would only welcome you or this fellow to start an RfC against me to expose your unsourced POV pushing and my attempt to resist that to which you respond with personal attacks. As for your ``no offence``, I take everything you said at the face value and I am capable to figure out your intentions from what you say rather than from what you claim you are saying.    ::I merely pointed to the fact that, apparently, I'm not the only person to ask you for sources - as politely as I could - and not the onbly person you ignored, contrary to the good ol' Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Cite sources rules. If you take it as an offence - I can't do much about it, can I.    Halibutt, how many times do I have to say that this is not about sources. This is about the liberty you take to interprete them and derive conclusions you favor that are just not there. And never have I ``ignored``. If you refuse to see the answers repeated so many times, I can't do much about it, can I? We can only wait for others to agree or disagree whether the answers to your and my conserns are adequate. Those ``others`` didn't show up for a while. Still no reason to beleive that the dispute was somehow solved by itself.  As for your claimed ``politeness`` the article's talk page speaks for that. But as for ``offence``, if I were so easily offended, I would not be able to be at Wikipedia. We all have seen worse than that. It is not for thin-skinned to edit history articles. You should see AndriyK's language he used and even that didn't make me loose my sleep.    ==Ru Pravda== Dear Irpen! Sorry if I chose the wrong words for expressing my frustration with AndriyK's behavior. I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. It's just that I've seen a lot of stuff done to a few of my articles that deal with Ukraine's people or geography in one way or another, so I decided to stay away from such topics. I appreciate your hard work in the Russian Portal! Keep it up and see you there.   :If it wasn't done by AndriyK lately, it was probably done by people who aren't on WP for months. Were there any recent incidents? I would love to see more Russian editors helping at UA-portal. In fact I called for that repeatedly as well as to Polish boards. With a few exceptions we never had serious  conflicts. If you can, please do contribute to Ukrainian articles.     == Ukraine related topics ==  Irpen, I would try to support you, although my knowledge of Ukrainian history is mostly limited to Soviet schoolbooks, and discourse is mostly the imperialistic one. I like your edits better, thou I am not sure if it is the right way to weed out all the Polish names from the cities that were Polish. Would it hurt that much if we would add the third (Polish) name in the first string if they want it so badly?   :No it would not always hurt. It will help in some and would hurt in some other cases. I will explain later, have to go now. Thanks   ::I agree with your explanations, OK, lets go into the edit war   :::Dear maffiosi, I don't think the edit war is a lasting solution. Perhaps it's time to discuss Andriy's disruptive policies at the Administrators' notice board? During his stint in the Wiki, he didn't contribute anything valuable but spelling reverts and personal attacks on other editors. May we ask to ban him?   We may ask to ban him but, as I told him at his talk page, I was trying to avoid it as much as I could. He violated 3RR multiple times and I showed it to him warning that he may get banned but I never actually proceeded in listing him for banning. Besides, after 24-48 hour ban he will be back even more aggravated and will continue his crusade with even more rigor. He may also find ways to circumvent 3RR or simply stay just under it and this pain will go on.   On the other hand, IMO he've done enough for the full-blown arbitration, which may result in a longer ban. If anyone would want to compile an arbitration case, I will comment on it. But as of yet, I would not start it myself. Several people are trying to talk to him and I hope he would listen. But if nothing changes, he will en up banned for sure.    :I think your position is fine. Just one question, is it absolutely, positively provent that OUN authorized the Lvov pogrom and it was not a spontaneus action? If its not 100% proven, we might add some NPOV hedging, like most of the scolars believe..., etc., not just blankly link the pogrom to OUN.   I  agree that there are differences of opinions on this. The article provides references that support both versions and both should be mentioned. I explained that some of the sources brought up by this user are controversial but this is no reason to totally dismiss them. What I oppose is that the user simply blanks from the article a sourced version he doesn't like.    == Discussion on maidanua.org ==  Hi, I've read that discussion with some interest. Your characterization as ``User Irpen is a very cunning, ingenious, and stubborn troll.`` (``Користувач Irpen - дуже хитрий, винахідливий і наполегливий троль.``) was especially amusing. What can I say - ці западенці зовсім з глузду з'їхали. Maybe, not all of them, but a significant proportion for sure.   :Now you are in danger too ). But seriously, it just hurts. Really, I mean you probably saw what was going on in en-Wiki and had no time to interfere. I took it upon myself to deal with this and I am getting all the heat now. (. And now this slander. I tried all I can to talk to user AndriyK. I was accused in Ukrayinophobia by someone else who retracted it and we are even having a decent correspondance now. But I just don't want to leave something to which I gave so much time. Just check my recent edit history to get a clue. Well, anyway, if I stay I might need help. If you have time, just try to talk to these new people if you can't participate in editing for the lack of time. I tried and I am getting this. Michael tried too. He was not cursed (perhaps because he has an orange ribbon on his page )). Still, he was just ignored. I don't know. If this goes on, we need to engage new editors in productive editing or repell this attack. Or leave ourselves. But this is the last thing I want to do...    ::I understand it was very offensive. But you shouldn't worry too much - there are always crazy people out there.  And how do we know he is not paid for what he does? It may be a form of an information war strategy. Similar to specifically hired participants in popular forums, like pravda.com.ua or inosmi.ru. They often pick an active user and start dumping sh-t on him. You would be quite a natural choice. N