  : Ravi,  :First of all thank you for providing the somewhat civil tone to this discussion. I was asked to provide some help in this article and the only reference I have is Ibbetson. I can locate more, but I did consider contacting you for this article as you appear the better Jatt informed.   :With regards to finding better evidence to counter this evidence, I am the wrong person to suggest that to. I merely offered some evidence from a recorded source (whatever the opinion of it is, it is still a documented reference) at someones request, it is clearly not my opinion, but an statement from a source. If you feel it is incorrect, please, by all means offer the alternative history in the article. I have no idea where they came from and only have one reference to explain this.   :I would welcome ALL sources for input to project a more correct picture of their history. But I would say, origins are a very tricky and somewhat,(as you implied) hyped expedition . Trying to keep with their modern achievements from where their name was in use onwards would be much more beneficial in my opinion, with some references to possible origins etc.  :Therefore, please dont wait a week on my part, I am more than happy for you to work on the article asap, it's not my exclusive page lol.   Goodluck. 