` ::James: I think this might be the last time I say this, or perhaps not, but I absolutely promise you, on my honour as [ermm ... whatever] that if you go to Sainsbury's round the corner here in London EC1 and buy a pack of ordinary plain muffins and then go to the supermarket in Manhattan, Kansas, and do the same with English muffins, you will have two absolutely distinct products. I promise you. Really. I have done it. The texture is markedly different. I know I am just doing the same thing again that I have decried, the assertion and counter-assertion, but I am stuck until we get some credible references into the article. I have never seen the AmE English muffin on sale here and would be very interested to see this. But I really should stop this now - I think it is close to affecting my mental health, or perhaps more than close. In passing I note that I missed an opportunity for a gag somewhere in ``counter-assertion`` (it would have been a bit half-baked, mind you) and also that ``Proposal to split`` in the English muffin talk page is possibly the best section header I have ever seen, anywhere - whether it was deliberate or not. With best wishes to all,   `