`  == Additional Proofs that Ramdasias are Chamar - Will post to Chamar discussion page after block has expired ==  Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province  By H.A. Rose, IBBETSON, Maclagan  (http://www.archive.org/stream/glossaryoftribes03rose#page/n5/mode/2up, (p148 of the book or P311 of online book)  He states that ``Just as the Muhammadan Chamar is styled Mochi so that Sikh Chamar is called Ramdasia....``  Panjab castes by Sir Denzil Ibbetson (1916) (http://www.archive.org/stream/panjabcastes00ibbe#page/n7/mode/2up)  On Page 269, he states: ``Similarly, if the Ramdasias do not follow the occupation of Chamars, it is no reason to separate them from that castes. So if a Ramdasia is Julaha, that is a weaver, and if he is 'Bazzaz' that is a draper, his caste remains unchanged. If a Chamar, a leather-worker becomes a Sikh and receives 'pahul' to-day, he at once joins the Ramdasias. The Ramdasias do receive the daughters in marriage of ordinary Chamars, but give them 'pahul' before associating with them``.........``The the Ramdasi is still a Chamar``.  On page 300:  ``The Sikh Chamar or Ramdasia. — It will be seen from Table VIII A that in the north and centre of the Eastern Plains a very considerable number of Chamiirs have embraced the Sikh religion. These men are called Ramdasia after Gui-u Ram Das, though what connection they have with him I have been unable to discover. Perhaps he was the first Guru to admit Chamars to the religion. Many, perhaps most of the Ramdasia Chamars have abandoned leather-work for the loom ; they do not eat carrion, and they occupy a much  higher position than the Hindu Chamars, though they are not admitted to religious equality by the other Sikhs. The Ramdasia are often confused with the Raidiisi oi Rabdasi Chamars. The former are true Sikhs, and take the pdhul. The latter are Hindus, or if Sikhs, only Nanakpanthi Sikhs and do not take the pcikul ; and are followers of Bhagat Rav Das or Rab Das, himself a Chamar. They are apparently as true Hindus as any Chamars can be, and are wrongly called Sikhs by confusion with the Ranidasias``.  The Religious Life of India - The Chamars by G.W Briggs ISBN: 8175361840 (Available on google books) On page P.28``, the various subcastes of chamars originated due to different occupations. Quote: ``The Chandar does not tanning and is the highest of the subcastes``.....``The Ramdasi is a weaver``...``The Bonas are weavers of blankets who are Sikhs``.   The Chamar Castes of Punjab  In Punjab, the Chamar is known as Adharmi, Chamar, Jatia Chamar, Rehgar, Raigar, Ramdasia, Ravidasi  (Source: THE CONSTITUTION (SCHEDULED CASTES) ORDER, 1950](C.O.19) (http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/rule3a.htm)  (Source:List of notified Scheduled Castes: http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/SC%20Lists.pdf  Chamar Castes of Delhi  In Delhi, the chamar is known as CHAMAR, CHANWAR, CHAMAR, JATYA OR JATAV,CHAMAR MOCHI, RAMDASIA, RAVIDASI, RAIDASI,REHGARH OR RAIGAR  (Source:LIST OF SC/ST UNDER GOVT. OF NCT OF DELHI) http://dcnorth.delhigovt.nic.in/SC%20List.pdf  Chamar Castes of Jammu & Kashmir  Chamar Castes of Jammu & Kashmir  The Chamar is known as Chamar or Ramdasia - (Source:The Constitution ( Jammu & Kashmir) Scheduled Castes Order, 1956) http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/SC%20Lists.pdf  Dalits and the Emancipatory Sikh Religion Raj Kumar Hans from History department of MS University of Baroda (Based on a Draft Paper presented at University of Pennsylvania at the Conference on Dalit Challenges to Academic Knowledge: The Great Paradoxes) http://punjabpanorama.blogspot.com/2009/06/dalits-and-emancipatory-sikh-religion.html  ``Another dalit Naxalite poet Lal Singh Dil was born in a Ramdasia Sikh (Chamar) family in 1943.``   On Poet Lal Singh Dil  http://apnaorg.com/articles/nirpuma-4/  Born to a low-caste Ramdasia Chamar (tanner) family, Dil was the first of his clan to pass Class X, while doing his daily labour, and go to college.   Scheduled Castes in Sikh Community A Historical Perspective by Harish K Puri  http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/scheduled.pdf  In the customary scheme, outcastes such as mazhabis (Churah Sikh), balmikis and ramdasias (chamar Sikh)/ravidasias were not allowed to own land.   Perspectives on Sikh Studies by Jagjit Singh (1985, published by Guru Nanak Foundation, Near J.N.U and Qutab Hotal New Delhi 110 067) http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/per-sikh-studies.pdf  on Page 75,``The Ramdasia's or the Sikh Chamars occupt a much higher position than the Hindu Chamars``.  On page 77, ``By changing their name to Ramdasias, the Chamar Sikhs could alter positon in the Sikh case hierarchy, becoming Sikhs and refusing to marry or interdine with Chamar Hindus.   Punjab Government Website, Listing steps for getting a scheduled caste certificate.   In this website, the have listed: ``Chamar, Jatia Chamar,Rehgar, Raigar,Ramdasi of Ravidasi, Ramdasia, Ramdasia Sikh, Ravidasia, Ravidasia Sikh`` under the same bullet point indicating that all members belong to these castes are the same. http://india.gov.in/howdo/service_detail.php?formid=19  Website http://www.sikhlink.com/Glossary.htm lists the following:  ``Ramdasia-  The Sikh section of the Chamar caste, an outcaste Sikh``   http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=44491&st;=156, In the forum post 161, a member writes   ``Sikhs who were formerly Hindu chamars but converted to Sikhism are referred to as RAMDASIA Sikhs. This is because Sikhism under Guru Ram Das saw the maximum conversion of Hindu Chamars to Sikhism``   Website http://www.ambedkartimes.com/page14.html on Kanshi Ram  ``Mr. Kanshi Ram was born in a Ramdasia ( Chamar ) low scheduled caste, dalit family on 15 March 1934 in village Khawaspur of Ropar district , Punjab, India.``    Matrimonial Profiles posted on the internet  http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090614/class-f.htm  Alliance for Ramdasia/Chamar/Ad-dharmi 26/5'-3`` girl, pursuing B.A. Part I. Computer. Chandigarh family.    http://www.matrimonialsindia.com/main/detl1.php?sl=173609 ..Caste written as Ramdasia/Chamar`