`Leadwind is mixing up two very different questions.  The first is, ``What do the Gospels day`` and the Gospels themselves are fine sources for just (and just) that.  The second question is, what ``really`` happened and here NPOV becomes a major concern because different people have different beliefs.  What historians think and what Christians think for example are often different.  Here we definitely need secondary sources, but these views belong in other sections (where indeed they are already found).  It is very dangerous to mix up ``what the Gospels say`` with ``what actually happened`` as Leadwind is doing.    |     `