`  ==Marie-Rose Mueller and defining 'notable' and 'not notable' by age==  Delete. I started reading the article thinking that it would be a clear keep, but had to abandon that idea as I read though it. There are no inline citations, so it's hard to tell which of the facts asserted are sourced where, but of the three links provided, one is just an entry in a list, one is a dead link which doesn't show up in the internet archive, and the remaining link is to 247-word news report which offers far fewer facts than are in the article, supporting the suggestion that the article contains a lot of original research. Even if the missing article was was substantial, she still falls far short of WP:BIO. It would be great to include a properly-sourced single paragraph on Mueller in a list of extremely long-lived American people, but without massive new evidence of notability this standalone article looks like a clear delete. If the article was plausibly referenced I'd suggest a merger to a list, but I don't see anything here worth keeping unless new sources are available. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)   :I really don't think this one will survive. I thought she was 'going to be' notable. An overeager teenage fan (Jacob Walker) apparently started this article. A few positives: she looked lovely holding a mirror, had an interesting migration story (born in a French remnant of Alsace, came to America on a ship in 1915), and for her 110th birthday was photographed outside the nursing facility,   http://www.connpost.com/localnews/ci_7403953  There was additional coverage of her 111th birthday on MSNBC. As for a 'memorial', she is on the GRG website. I do note that Ms Mueller did NOT rank in the top-500 all-time list.  One indication of 'notability' due to age is coverage outside one's home state or territory. If the death is reported nationally, on the AP wire, that is a strong indication of notability.   Generally, I am trying to include on Wikipedia as separate articles:  those in the top 100 all-time (for which sources are available) or top-10 living oldest in a European nation, Japan, or major U.S. state (states like New York, with 19 million people, yes...Delaware, maybe not)  For those that don't qualify, we do have a temporary list of oldest-living (if they die, they get deleted, and that's it) and if they make it to the top 100 (current minimum: 113 years 189 days old) or the top-10 or 15 oldest-living then we give them a separate article. Ms. Mueller was ranked 48th-oldest in the world, so is outside that range.  Often other factors, such as gender (men don't live as long), or war veteran service, or 'oldest in a nation' in a smaller nation (such as Switzerland), lead to articles being created for persons just at 110.  In 2006 I created many of the articles, but in the past six months now the supercentenarian article-creation has shifted to mostly teenagers, and even I think we should wait until the person's notability is clearly established, and by that time someone else had already created it. Thus it's not totally within my control anymore.  A final issue is that the sources may disappear (become archived). They are available for a fee or via such entities as Lexis-Nexis (free for college students, a fee for others). One 'workaround' is that the World's Oldest People webgroup posts the actual article and the link, and it is still freely available.   A search of the Yahoo portal (one of the top four in the world) finds as the #return for worlds oldest people:  Worlds_Oldest_People  World's Oldest People  ... and photographs regarding the world's oldest people (108+). Only proven cases ... She is currently ranked seventh in the world among the world's oldest people. ...health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worlds_Oldest_People - 18k - Cached  Oldest people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia   And in second, Wikipedia, which cannot be a source for itself:  ... time served as ``World's Oldest Person`` for the 36 people following Betsy Baker ... and lifespans of the world's oldest people are continually increasing due to ... Quick Links: Oldest living people - Oldest living men (since 1961) - Oldest people ever (115+)  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people - 166k - Cached   Thus, I do suggest that the World's Oldest People webgroup be considered, at the least, a reliable 'external link' which will provide additional, archived sources. This may not save Marie-Rose Mueller (who probably needed to become the state's oldest person to gain more than 'passing' notability), but it would seem to me to be a common-sense, fair approach.  Yes, I did remove you from membership (and you probably signed up with an alternate account). If we can come to some mutual understanding of what IS and IS NOT an acceptable supercentenarian article on Wikipedia, I'll let you back in to the World's Oldest People webgroup. Clearly, it is a waste of both of our times if people are continously creating articles only to have them deleted. Defining what will 'stick' (not be deleted) beforehand should result in fewer articles for deletion. It's a lot less emotional if the article were never created in the first place, then to have to go back and get rid of what was clearly a lot of work on the part of some. Clearly, there were COI issues (IP address 76, apparently a family member) but the original article was started by a non-family member, a teenager who was inspired by Ms Mueller's spunky attitude (disdaining medication, for example).  Why I am putting this message here? It's clear that this topic is presently on the minds of both you and Kittybrewster, and that the general Wikipedia community and the 'supercentenarian fans' may not share the same views as to where to draw the line on 'notability.' I do note that articles on the world's oldest person always survive, and I do think we need a few more below that (for diversity, for national records, for state records, for extraordinary runners-up such as Bertha Fry, third-oldest in the world but not even the oldest in her state), while the vast majority of the 500+ persons aged 110 do not have their own articles. Just to give you an idea of the numbers range:   Validated Supercentenarian Cases (Data Analysis)       as of Apr. 18, 2007      *data below does not include living cases         mortality rate    age number surviving deaths yearly Cumulative   123 0      122 1 -1 100.00% 100.00%   121 1 0 0.00% 99.90%   120 2 -1 50.00% 99.90%   119 3 -1 33.33% 99.80%   118 3 0 0.00% 99.69%   117 5 -2 40.00% 99.69%   116 10 -5 50.00% 99.49%   115 23 -13 56.52% 98.98%   114 62 -39 62.90% 97.66%   113 125 -63 50.40% 93.69%   112 261 -136 52.11% 87.28%   111 504 -243 48.21% 73.45%   110 983 -479 48.73% 48.73%    The above data, from the GRG database, as compiled by yours truly.   http://pimm.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/sens3-stephen-coles-on-the-secrets-of-supercentenarians-slides/  Check out slides four and five. Dr. Coles gets his data from me, not the other way around. Dr. Coles performs the autopsies and other biological work; I do the paperwork (decide if the case meets the criteria for validation).  So, we see that of 983 deceased cases, 504 made it to 111. Since this does not include the living, Ms Mueller's ranking was 519th (ranking may change as more data become available). This may give you some idea of how many articles Wikipedia would need to include 'everyone'  Age 110: about 1,000 articles (and growing) Age 111: about 500 articles (and growing) Age 112: about 250 articles (and growing) Age 113: about 125 articles (slowly increasing) Age 114: about 62 articles (age of current world's oldest) Age 115: about 25 articles (not changing much)  In reality, because some choose anonymity, the total article counts would be about half that if we made every article we had an obituary for (not just the documents).  Perhaps Wikipedia could establish a policy for age-related articles: how old is old enough? What about males, who don't live as long?   and since the goal of Wikipedia is to establish 'consensus', that is what I am trying to do. So, what say you?   `