`  :::@htom, I think this shows that you aren't truly open-minded.  An apt response to the preceding quotes from Bandler and/or Grinder would have been: ``And NLP proponents wonder why they have such a hard time being taken seriously`` (and those quotes are just a sample of the nonsense I can post from B&G;).  But you were silent!  You have no (or very high) threshold for incredulity in relation to what Bandler and/or Grinder write or say in seminars but you do have a (very low) threshold for displeasure in relation to what others say about what Bandler and/or Grinder write or say in seminars.  Don't you think that this is strange?  Can you tell us where your threshold for incredulity is pegged in relation to Bandler and Grinder?  What would Bandler and Grinder have to write or say for you to just respond ``that is a load of bullshit!``?  In Bandler's DVD set How to Live a Happy Life, 30 Years of NLP on DVD 3 Bandler claims that he designed the first ``space toilet`` for NASA; on DVD 1 Bandler claims that he decided what is standard issue in sidearms for the US Army, he says that the US Army sent him hundreds of handguns to his house via a courier company to test for them; on DVD 1 Bandler says that he has ``non-human blood``; on DVD 1 Bandler says he is a physicist; I forget which DVD but in that same set he states emphatically that physicists (he uses we because he of course is a physicist) don't know how magnets work; I can go on  but I won't.  How do these claims jibe with you?  Is that all gospel truth or plain bullshit?  Where do you stand? Am I being a prick if I don't believe that Bandler designed the first space toilet for NASA?  Am I tarnishing your idols if I don't believe that Bandler chose the Beretta M9 for the US Army?  Am I an out-of-control skeptic that just doesn't believe anything?  People like you fascinate me.  Tell me more.   `