` April 2006 (UTC)  ===Template:Phh:Reader=== ``folks complained that the Meta pages are ``not for Wikipedia``, which is plain nonsense`` - I agree, however I still think this is obtrusive and not the best solution. Maybe you should add this to Template:Hh, which would put it in the standard header rather than the article header (this would also make it easier to maintain). I still have a few concerns, so could you 1. explain how this proves these pages are for Wikipedia (in the eyes of the people complaining) and 2. provide links to the page/s where the compaints are being raised. You can reply here. Thanks.    : is the ``copied from Meta`` blurb, in its latest version also working for templates (and all other namespaces, but nobody needs this), better keep it short and sweet (as is). : is a kind of dummy if there's nothing special to say wrt Wikipedia in the lead section. For Phh:Namespace you just decided that Wikipedia specific info in the lead section is necessary, so that page has no dummy logo. : is a bastard, starting like Phh:Reader, but with an additional shortcut, see WP:WP for a few others using this style. It took me some time to redirect a bunch of empty (various styles) Phh templates to Phh:Reader, IMO a common look and feel for help pages is reassuring. :Something like the old WP:REDIR including the complete WP:R resulting in a different look (numerous categories from examples listed in WP:R) was dubious. The complete Wikipedia specific help idea was dubious, I got already in fights about it after I tried to trim the included pages with  (before I found out how the Ph magic works). Users don't understand it.  :Somebody said that they voted on b: to delete all imported help pages because the don't edit the copy warning is against their policy. Apparently that moronuser never noticed that he can :# edit the master copy, :# edit the warning template (probably a local template on b: like our hh ), :# edit the Ph and if absolutely necessary even the Phh (screwing up the lead section). :Unfortunately the folks trying to improve the handbook are scattered in various groups here and on Meta, if I do something it's flying blind, until I catch a rv (or throw it in your case ;-)    :P.S.: Check out the Phh:Reader links to see the redirects from other Phh templates.  :Discussion continued in the Phh:Reader talk page. 17:59, 13`