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` In my earlier post directly above, I stated that rightly or wrongly Fascism derived its purpose from Actual Idealism. I was not clear in what I meant by ``purpose``, so perhaps sometime in the next few days I will be more clear in what I meant. Also, I apologize for making up the word 'autologocentric'. It seemed the best word for what I was trying to describe in contrast to the ego centered nature of my incoherent ramblings. Capone Aug 18, 1982`

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:Ah...! I can definively see you 20 years from now, toothless, and still waving a 1979 satsang... ROLF and with tears in my eyes. )

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`:Look Andy, the Nazi's themselves looked to Napoleon: :Nazi writers in Germany saw in Napoleon a harbinger of national socialism. The Nazi writer Franz Kemper wrote in the introduction of the republication of Konstantin Frantz's book, Masse oder Volk of 1852, that ``The rise of power of Louis Napoleon is the only historical parallel to the National Socialist revolution of our day``. Another Nazi writer, Michael Freund, wrote that Napoleon was the only real revolutionist in 1848. Still another German National Socialist, K. H. Bremer, realized that Napoleon found the real motivating force of revolution in the social question rather than the constitutional question of the republicans of 1848. ``His great aim was to establish a political system based upon the unity of all classes and of all interests in France``. (10). This was the answer to marxist socialism. Napoleon was the first to develop a national socialism. From :They considered Napoleon a revolutionist. `

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` :And there's nothing wrong with two ``Thank you``. So: Thank you. ) | `

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` Something I wanted to clarify about my last edit: I simply had a problem with the original post since it wasn't accurate. Gas chambers were specifically built for exterminating the groups mentioned in my edit. Jehova's witnesses and homosexuals were put into concentration camps, and surely mistreated beyond any measure conceivable to us. The fact remains though, that they presented a normal, and small portion, of those prisoner populations, and were not treated different than the rest of the prisoners. Jews, Sinti and Roma were people the Nazis specifically targetted for extermination as a people. Later on there wasn't even imprisonment for these people, they were simply transported to the death camps. A Jehova's witness could have saved its life by denouncing its community's faith and agreeing to be drafted to the Wehrmacht, a choice Jews didn't have. But this isn't my point and I'm not suggesting they should have done that. But the fact I want simply to put out by my edit, is: I've read about the Holocaust and the Euthanasia operation, I've read about the concentration and death camps, and the SS, Gestapo and SD ``security`` apparatus, but I didn't read about Homosexuals or Jehova's witnesses being specifically targetted for extermination by gas as distinct groups, maybe still as a part of the prisoner population, but not specifically. As a reference I want to suggest Eugen Kogons ``The SS state`` or the books of Raul Hilberg. `

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:I agree, when I read that I definitely thought that it had to be taken out because it wasn't NPOV.

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` ==BJAODN== Your comment was NOT funny. I quit the project once over this, and I don't intend to do it again. You may very well be breaking the law with that posting. You have your ``childlove`` article. Please leave it at that. - `

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` Does 905 really consititute the ``more affluent regions of Toronto``? I think it was in fact the aspirational middle class of 905 that held the political sway that kept Mr. Harris in power. His neo-conservatism spoke to those voters and they responded at the polls, while many quite wealthy downtown regions showed inconsistent Tory support. Keep in mind that the neo-conservative bent of the Harris campaigns and some of the curious economic arguments did not always resonate with the old money traditional Conservative minds at the time.`

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:Two weeks now and no one has come forward with an example to I've removed the claim.

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` :::: Your words: book is about Stalin's drive to instigate a war as a driving force of ``international revolution``. So, Stalin (according to Suvorov) did not belive in it, but was driven to instigate it? Please do provide any logical explanation for this inconsistency. `

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== Captions == Hey, thanks for all the images you've been adding on Nintendo-related articles. I thought I'd point you to Wikipedia:Captions - such a prolific contributor of images should write good captions too. )

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` * has everyone that speaks Portuguese these ``personal pronouns`` are an hard task. thx Cataphract. - `

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::::Agreed. However, I maintain that this should be doable with at most 7 links. The current setup can clearly be optimized - for example, both physics and mathematics are sciences.

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` :::Translation: ::I, personally, would dispute that sexuality is even a continuum. I would agree that heterosexuality, DEFINDED AS PROCREATION, has been the norm, DEFINED AS COMMON AND/OR TYPICAL, throughout history, even normative, DEFINED AS PRESCRIPTIVE. Since you also include marriage, I would need to be convinced and thus currently disagree on that point also. You of course will remember the second part from our previous disagreements and discussions. ::However, we need to find sources before we make such assertions in articles, and I will oppose their addition until cited. However, as it is ``common knowledge`` (Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial#Neutral_language), I would support the addition of, ``heterosexuality, DEFINDED AS PROCREATION, has been the norm, DEFINED AS COMMON AND/OR TYPICAL, throughout history.`` :: `

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== Human Events == Wolfman, Please cite your evidence that Human Events is not a newpaper. (Their website says otherwise.) Or, if you prefer, just undo your mistaken edit.

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All possibly valuable insight, Danny, but that would be better used at the entry for Dialectical materialism, not Historical materialism.

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This IP is used by schools all over Australia On behalf of the school children of Australia, please excuse our behaviour! Sorry for the misunderstanding Disgruntled Student

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` == ``The rock thrown towards a tree``? What is the source for this?? == I've never heard of this paradox before. What is the source for it? I'm very familar with Aristotle's Physics and I don't find it there. Nor do I find it in Simplicius's commentary. I'd like to replace it with the ``Dichotomy`` paradox given by Aristotle. Any objections?`

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` Robert, Personal attacks are not acceptable on Wikipedia, e.g. ``You must be braindead``. See Wikiquette for more details. Thanks. `

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Do not add personal rants onto Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. If you wish to contribute seriously please see here. Thank you. 01:27, 2004 Sep 3 (UTC)

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As to an RFC, that would be fine with me (that's nothing formal like mediation is it?)

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- (GNAA Member Rucas) : The name may be offensive to some, but there are plenty of equally offensive things on Wikipedia. Please proceed to muddle with their articles and leave ours alone. Thank you.

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You know, fictional science fiction is pretty redundant. There's a reason I took it out before.

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` I'm a bit confused about this. As I understand it, the Bohr compactification can be defined using either only Hausdorff compact groups (what some people simply refer to simply as compact groups) or quasi-compact groups (what some other people refer to simply as compact groups, unfortunately). In the latter case, the homomorphism iota will be injective, thus iota(G) is a dense subgroup of H which is algebraically isomorphic to G, but carries a coarser topology in general. I am not aware of a simple characterisation of those groups for which G is isomorphic to iota(G) as a topological group, but I'm sure there's a list of sufficient conditions around. I suppose that the usual construction of the Bohr compactification is something along the lines of ``the closure of the diagonal in the direct product of all compact groups in which G maps via a continuous homomorphism with dense image``? That might be easy enough to include in the article, but so far I've not actually stumbled across an actual construction, except in the abelian case. `

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` == Quote == One quote, and it's that athiest quote? I don't doubt he said that, but it hardly seems representative. He isn't all that well known for his position on athiesm. How about ``Read my lips, no new taxes``? How about something relating to the invasion of Iraq?`

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Well this is my first attempt at adding information to the Restoule Wikipedia entery. David

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` Thanks for the heads-up on 'English' Looks like you've been busy recently. I also did the same thing with Russian->Russian — `

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` == stolen with permission == The rapidly rising current creates a rapidly rising magnetic field along the axis of the coil, which in turn induces an electric field going in circles inside the coil. The induced electric field causes an electron current in the can which experiences a vxB force in the magnetic field of the coil, causing the can to break into two pieces which are blown to the opposite sides of the lecture hall. The plasma ``theta pinch`` phenomenon occurs when the capacitor is discharged. This effect causes radiation pressure on the can which breaks it in two and blasts apart the two halves.`

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Moriori: Thank you for informing me about this discussion but please note that I am user EdH, not user edh, and I have no interest in this sad controversy.

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` :::Rex, your vicious personal attack on me is one of the silliest things I've ever seen from you which is saying a lot, considering that, of the comments on and edits to articles that I've been significantly involved in, you've contributed more silly things than everyone else put together. And, of course, as is typical of your tendency to act as if you and only you have any understanding of Wikipedia etiquette and principles, you do so in the name of ``collegial spirit``. Is this comment of mine a personal attack on you, in violation of the rules? I don't think so, so I'll spare you the trouble of typing a threat to start RfC/RfM/RfAr/whatever. I stand by my statement regardless of which of those you threaten or actually commence. `

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, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC) 06:46

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==Edit attribution== Hi. The edits from your IP have now been reattributed to your username. Regards — | 11:43, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

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:Even if only 20% of people know what it means, . |

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` ==Voting policy VfD, plus should this recreated article be speedied or VfD'd?== Geogre, I think you mentioned somewhere on VfD, to Anthony if I remember right, that it was against policy to simply go down the list and add Keep or Delete (well, generally just Keep) to the discussions — that you're supposed to give reasons. Do you know where I can find this policy? I'd like to point another user to it, Dittaeva, who goes on major monosyllabic keep sprees from time to time. Also, sorry to bother you with this, but is there any reasonable way of accessing a VfD debate that is as old as Jan 2004? Anthony talked in the current Hubert Dreyfus debate about this being ``worse than when Sidney Morgenbesser was listed here and deleted.`` For a deleted article, Sidney Morgenbesser was surprisingly bluelinked, I thought, so I went look. Oh, my, what a terrible article. Consists of unpleasant anecdotes and fake references. The subject is a professor with writer's block. Anyway, the point is, it was put up for deletion 23 Jan 2004, subsequently deleted, and then recreated in August 2004 (as a stub, by Gzornenplatz.) Anthony added material to it on 15 August. So I wanted to put it up for speedy, but the relevant criterion says ``reposted content that was deleted according to Wikipedia deletion policy`` can be speedied, and how can I tell what the content was? The recreated article probably doesn't in fact technically speaking have the same content, since everybody called the old one ``vanity`` (there's a maybe incomplete record of the Januaray voting on User_talk:Anthony_DiPierro#Stop_the_vanity_insanity|this]] subpage of Anthony's), and the new one is much weirder than that. Oh, look, a learned cunt joke by Christopher Hitchens, how delightful. Anyway. I wanted to see the Jan voting for myself — Anthony doesn't claim that the copy of it on his page is complete — so I tried to burrow back through the huge VfD archive that was created in May, but it broke when I was about halfway. So that was a wasted half-hour. -( There's got to be an easier way. Or maybe not? Anyway, good morning George. I shouldn't be doing this, I (despairingly) have other things to do. Urgent things. OK, today I'll list Anthony's baby Sidney Morgenbesser for either speedy or VfD (yes, I will, if it's at all possible, i. e. if you have any answers for my questions above), and cleanup Reverse sexism and read that urgent dissertation chapter. Yep, those are the things I'll do. I just hope I don't get any more long screeds about vandalism and IP's and schools and stuff from sv.wiki, I can't afford to be everlastingly typing to those guys. `

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Wait, shouldn't karaage be karāge and kageboushi be kagebōshi? Or am I on crack? (See Romaji.) -

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::Have to disagree with Mcarling here. Hagelin was supported by large factions within the Reform Party, most prominently that Mangia fellow and Lenora Fulani, because of their (in my opinion, unwarranted, but that is irrelevant) desperation to avoid Pat Buchanan's nomination. When I voted in Illinois, John Hagelin was listed on the ballot as Reform, whereas Buchanan was listed as Independent, because the state party refused to go along with (the larger of the two factions of) the national party and supported Hagelin. The Hagelin faction made Mangia party chair, which can hardly be seen as an outside takeover, because he was already an officer of the party. -

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` :I agree that we should be consistent. There is probably a subtle difference between the ``x effect`` and ``x-electricity``, so we need to record both forms somehow. I would say that the ``x effect`` is an abstract concept meaning ``the process by which e.g. squeezing a crystal creates electricity``, while ``x-electricity`` is a concrete thing, the electricity that you get as the result of the effect. I think this means that the title of the article should be the ``x effect``, as you said above, but let's acknowledge the existence of the ``x-electricity`` form somewhere in each article. `

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Hello. Check out Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers for tips and info on writing and editing here.

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Um ... Suppose A has a short simple proof using the Riemann hypothesis, and a short simple proof not using the Riemann hypothesis. If the Riemann hypothesis is hard to be (as appears to be the case), then wouldn't the short simple proof of A not using the Riemann hypothesis make the proof of A accessible to those who haven't worked through the proof of the Riemann hypothesis? And might it not be important for that reason?

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: Please stop creating new articles, they're just being removed and listed on copyright problems.

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Ardent nationalism basically sums up every nation I can think of on the face of the planet at present. It makes sense that a nation would extol the virtues of itself, right? The PRC does not have a cult of personality, does not glorify male youth as fighters, does not glorify female youth as future incubators. Mysticism is missing from official Chinese pronouncements too. Also missing is the stated goal of said society. Left Totalitarian regimes like China see a future where a hierarchy of work-production, and distribution can be overcome once production is more automated with robotics and technology and economic scarcity can be overcome. Allowing private property is a means towards an end in the case of China (market socialism). Right Totalitarian regimes see hierarchy as the natural and permanent order of things, and the existence of private property is not a mean to an end, but the end to be preserved within itself. A broad definition of fascism which would more correctly have to be termed corporatism if we say that mysticism, gender roles, and ideological heritage/stated aims aren't necessary conditions, then that would also allow us to place countries like the U.S since the 1930's, social-democratic Germany, and Keynesian Japan in that category. The main difference between fascism and capitalist-democratic or more benign corporatist states is the right for trade unions and combinations to engage in collective bargaining and even work stopages (strikes) against the immediate consent of the state or business. Unions have this right in China today, to a limited extent, as in the U.S to a limited extent. On an economic basis, Germany may be considered more corporatist or economically interventionist than the U.S, but politically the citizens have more rights to protest and engage in collective bargaining or form new unions. Unless I can be swayed from this line of thought, and I am open to it, I will mercilessly edit out grouping the PRC as fascist.

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==Peer review== -

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` - I was just a bit bothered by the obvious bias of the article. I didn't look this up to get the writer's judgment of theodicy, but rather to understand the concept of theodicy. Telling me that it is all about ``making up`` reasons that God could be omnipotent is remarkably presumptive and a tad righteous. Regardless, I don't think it's relevant. Tell me what theodicy is. Tell me the arguments and ideas surrounding it. Don't give me your opinions or declare the concept somehow invalid. It's a waste of everyone's time.`

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== ==Jerry Remigius Kanagarajah== == ==Jerry Remigius Kanagarajah== Is this fair that you do not look at the facts. Please see links and re-evaluate thank you. Here are the two links. 5:36, Sep 12, 2004

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I'd best correct myself. I've noticed, upon further inspection, a distinct change in writing style in the offending paragraph. It does not invalidate the article that an angry person decided to throw in his two cents. I don't care for the paragraph, for it contributes nothing, but I don't feel comfortable editing the article myself.

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Stop trolling, please. ]]

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== Text == Isn't it time to add the lyrics/text/liberetto's to Wiki?

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` ::BTW, ``partisan operatives?`` That is a direct Rather quote...are you taking your cues on bias from him? - 13:56, 2004 Sep 15 (UTC)`

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Terrance lindall prefers that you do not inlcude him in the article under any circumstances or in the discussions. The article which is continually changed by Mr. Boyer and freely allowed by Wikipedia is not a credible scholarly source of material on the history of surrealism in our time.

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Sorry, it's just so tempting.

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== VfD == No, I voted just after seeing your note. ]]

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I spoke to soon - disabling the ad blocker enabled me to see my image on , but I still can't see other images, eg Butterfly, caterpillar, Muscovy Duck any ideas???? Jim

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, spanish text. Thanks.

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==Images== Hi Matthew, please could you let me know what licence you uploaded the following images under so they can be tagged. Image:Wpdms_ev26188_tristateregion_bluegreen.jpg, Image:Wpdms_idaho_territory_1863.png, Image:Wpdms_idaho_territory_1864.png, Image:Wpdms_idaho_territory_1864_legend.png, Image:Wpdms_napoleon_hill_2.jpg, Image:Wpdms_nasa_topo_bay_of_fundy.jpg, Image:Wpdms_nasa_topo_little_white_river.jpg, Image:Wpdms_new_mexico_territory_1850_idx.png, Image:Wpdms_new_mexico_territory_1853_idx.png, Image:Wpdms_new_mexico_territory_1861_legend_idx.png, Image:Wpdms_oregon_territory_1848.jpg, Image:Wpdms_oregon_territory_1859_detail.jpg, Image:Wpdms_prigogine.jpg, Image:Wpdms_shdrlfi020l_death_valley.jpg, Image:Wpdms_terra_northriver.jpg, Image:Wpdms_terra_thenarrows.jpg, Image:Wpdms_washington_idaho_territories_1863.png, Image:Wpdms_washington_territory_1863.png, Image:Wpdms_washington_territory_1863_legend.png Thanks.

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Besides, there are already many pages that are linking to African Languages instead (which is a redirect to African language at present). But now the existence of that page poses a problem if we are going to move this one. And by just plain copy-pasting the text, the history of this page will be gone. Anyone suggestions on how to solve this?

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WP:PR, sorry. I'm not despairing, it's ok, I just don't want to grow too attached to this article. I think the discussion has been very civil, but it's growing stale. I would like to hear some more opinions. As it is, this talk page looks disheartening. We should archive some stuff, and arrange the rest in a way that makes it easy to spot the disputed points. Maybe we should go back to minor edits to the article (not replacing entire paragraphs, but slight improvements, with the understanding they will be reverted if considered offensive). Thanks for your patience.

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` ==Thank you== Thank you for your constructive contribution to my update on the Jodeci article, re: K-Ci & JoJo. However, this commet was most uncalled for: ``(copyedit Mr. Treason additions)```

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` :: Dante, I agree that it is the use of the word that constructs a POV. Of course, in a technically accurate sense either word would work, but we would then be blind to the inherent emotional connotations in each example. To gay activists, ``disruptive`` is connotating disapproval with the decision, as we normally use ``disruptive`` in a negative sense. Important, to people with more traditional values who view marriage as necessarily between a man and a woman, improperly connotates a sense of approval and puts the decision in a positive light. It is not only the content but the form of the message that is able to contain POV. `

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` ==It's been fun== Geogre, I'd hoped to get a chance to say good-bye to you ``in person' before heading out to the swing states, but since that , I'll do it in public here. My ``email this user`` link will still work, although what chance I'll have to access email when in the field, I don't know. But if you can, please keep me apprised of major events in your own life. `

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someone using ip 202.73.112.213 just messed up on your last revision on Megawati Sukarnoputri. could you please check that page? thanks

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Enhanced the image to remove glare and bring out detail.

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Could you link to the letters in that article?

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==Cleanup the talk page== Anyone else notice the WARNING: This page is 145 kilobytes long. Please consider condensing the page and moving the detail to another article so it is not approaching or in excess of 32KB notice? I think that this talk page needs to be archived, and without all that nonsense ranting (stuff which has nothing to do with the article or anything else on wikipedia). Surely there is a more general forum on the internet where that stuff is appropriate; it is not here. If someone else would do the cleanup work that would be great, otherwise I'll do it myself in the near future (reply with any objections below). I propose that this talk page be entirely cleared, and the parts of it that are on-topic can be saved on Talk:Surrealism/Archive. If people still want to respond to any of the previous threads they can simply copy them from the Archive page back to here. OK?

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:get the damn chronology correct. I don't think your tone is appropriate, and I do not appreciate it.

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` Ok, I retract my claim about British men's feet above! English Customary Weights and Measures by Russ Rowlett describes a plausible origin whereby the natural foot (of around 9-10 inches) was initially used and 'evolved' to around 12 inches due to the length of 12 inches being a convenient multiple and subdivision of other lengths used at the time. Apparantly, before the foot was standardised people used three different lengths: * a foot of 13 inches made from two shaftments of 6.5 inches each, * a foot equal to 12 inches, * a ``natural foot``, Latin: pes naturalis, of about 9.8 inches has these tidbits about the measure: * the traditional Danish foot, equal to about 12.365 inches or 31.41 centimeters. * early civilizations of the Middle East had a longer foot, roughly 30 centimeters * a Greek foot is at about 30.8 centimeters (12.1 inches) * a Roman foot at 29.6 centimeters (11.7 inches) * Swedish fot aka the Stockholm foot, equal to 11.689 inches or 29.69 centimeters * German fuss came in several versions: ** Viennese fuss was 12.444 inches (31.608 cm), ** Rheinfuss (Rhine foot) was 12.357 inches (31.387 cm) ** Bavarian fuß was 29 cm (11.41 inches) * French pied had several lengths, the best known being the royal foot (pied de roi) of 32.48 cm * Italian pie varied, 29.8 cm was one common length, but Venice used 34.8 cm and Bologna 38 cm * Spanish pie was the traditional foot of Spain and: ** in Spain was about 27.86 cm (10.97 in) ** in Argentine was 28.89 cm (11.37 in) ** in Texas was 11 1/9 inches or 28.22 cm Finally, in 1869 Benjamin Gould measured the feet of the Chinese Terracotta Army, and found the average foot length was 25.6 cm without shoes (10.07 inches) and 27.7 cm with shoes (10.9 inches) - | 22:42, 2004 Sep 27 (UTC)`

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Actually, no, and I'd thank you for not impugning my motives. ]] *

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`dab is doing an admirable job of arguing for the ``enemy``. ``For people who think humans are a biological species that somehow developed spirituality, the former applies. For people who think that humans are spiritual beings that somehow ended up inside a body, the latter applies.`` This captures the essence of the POV problem well. Or as I sometimes ask my children, ``Are we monkeys or are we children of God?`` It is a fundamental divergence of definition. Yes, your taxobox is beautiful and fine, and I hope it stays. - `

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` - Hi Chris, I'm Alex from Monterrey, Mexico. UANL stands for ``Universidad Autónoma de Nuevo León``. I dont know what is the official name really of the team. In their official page, www.tigres.com.mx, it seems that their official name is ``Club Tigres``, but they represent the UANL, so i dont know how to call them. .[[User:r_alcaraz_v|r_alcaraz_v]`

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Would just like to comment that the Laju incident which as credited as an occasion where Singapore's Commando SOF completed their successfull mission, is not exactly so. The incident which occured between Jan and Feb 1974 triggered off the realisation that Singapore needed to put in place a counter terrorist force for emergencies like the Laju incident. As such the force couldn't have exist during the incident. It was the members of the police force who served as voluntary hostages and police negotiators, (not the military's Special Operations Force), which helped defuse the crisis.

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I just removed all the groups that I know to be Christian. I apologize for leaving Urantia if that is also Christian. I belive Bahai is a separate world religion and not Christian. If I have been wrong, some Bahai adherent please correct us and remove Bahai from this article. Please do not add Christian groups to this list. -

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I removed The modified adjacency matrix is generated by replacing all entries greater than 1 in the adjacency matrix by 1. from the article. The edges in graphs are defined as a set, so it is not possible that an edge (vi,vj) is contained more than once. I think the adjacency matrix should be a (0,1)-matrix and perhaps in a subsection someone could extend this definition to count the number of edges two vertices share.

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The only connection I can think of is that the Galapagos Islands are a prime example of evolution, and Charles Darwin visited and observed them... which is not really much of a connection at all. I support removing the image, or finding a more suitable one.

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`, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC) Still digging. For liquid:liquid solutions such as alcohol: ``Volume-volume percentage or % (v/v) describes the ml solute per 100 mL solution. This is most useful when liquids are being mixed. For example, beer is about 5% ethanol by volume. This means every 100 mL beer contains 5 mL ethanol (ethyl alcohol).`` (chem lecture notes) Need to re-write and include as volume-volume concentration. Still more to do ) - 02:19`

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` == Uses == I think that a lot of the wording under ``Uses`` is bias and not true for many people. These two lines struck me particularly: It is also usually easier to change a pad than a tampon in public bathrooms., and In general, pads are a perfect fit for most women's menstrual needs., which I both totally disagree with, and would have to say that I'm hardly the only person to feel that way. Those aren't facts, those are some people's opinions.`

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. If changes are made that do not qualify as vandalism, and they are neutral facts, then hands off. Let others modify it, which is why the Wikipedia was made in the first place. Even a completely biased Revisionist page by a revisionist would serve as a better starting point than what is here, because it would allow an accurate summary of what they are all about, which could then be modified by others until it was NPOV

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::big chin too. maybe she got that from her father

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Non-sequiter.

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- Does anyone know what NI party Pres. McAleese associated with in NI or has she always been an FF member?

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` ==regarded== Why was the word ``regarded`` bolded? `

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Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary, but that's besides the point. I agree: the element phosphorus is bound to be looked up more often than Phosphorus meaning Venus and so that article should take priority (in terms of where the user is taken when they search). However, Wikipedia is not designed to be used purely by Wikipedia editors or those clued up with its conventions (nor those willing to take the time to discover them), but by anybody who wants quick and helpful access to a topic. Is such a person likely to expect to find a footnote at the bottom of the element article - I certainly don't think so. I would have thought such a person would give up at that point and look elsewhere. I don't think such a person would expect the topic they're searching for to be a footnote to something entirely different. However, if the 'dab' (is that an official term?) is at the top of this article, this certainly isn't a problem. I think it's poor practice - even if it is a general practice - to place disambiguation notices (I don't see why their 'significance' is a factor; either they're so insignificant they don't merit an article, or they do and hence shouldn't be hidden away) at the bottom of articles, since this makes the task of the user so much harder, whereas surely an encyclopedia should strive to make access to information as easy as possible. How relevant the links to the page are I'm unsure: I would have thought many people access information by entering search terms, rather than coming from a different page, and so will not have the clarification of the article's name you seem to imply.

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` Yes, you are right. I will change ``black`` to ``African American``, and link ``African American`` to the article ``African American``.`

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:::Picture removed.

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===Dio thingy=== You're right, it is Italian - but what does it mean?

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Is awk really feature complete enough to be considered a general purpose programming languagE? I've always considered it more of a text manipulation language.

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:Why? That's what we call it in English. The historical County of Flanders was also a French-speaking area, regardless of where it is now.

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` == The first line may be incorrect: Aliens may view this article == Where it says on the first line ``Earth, the planet on which we live``, that may be incorrect if aliens from another planet grasp satelite signals from our planet. In that case, we may offend them and they could sue Wikipedia for irrelevant information. I therefore feel we should change it to ``Earth, the planet on which humans live``. It's important that our information be as relevant as possible, and that is why we should change the first line.`

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`|condo]] to prevent unecessary redirects? - , 2004-04-10t01:00z - Not sure the recent edit changing Tyler from ``Anarchist`` to ``Nihilist`` is accurate. Tyler certainly does have a ethos and creed, where as a nihilist does not. His creed can certainly be said to be destruction of the current culture and certainly retrograde in many respects, seeking to return to a simpler subsistence level of existence (i.e. hunter/gatherer) but he definitely has an established ethos and world-view. It is simply contrary to much of modern society. I posit that the edit should be reverted back to anarchist. ==Reader's Digest, Jack/Joe== Hey, a few years ago I was reading a really old Reader's Digest and I swear I actually read an article written first person from an organ's point of view. (I don't remember which.) ...and the guy's name was Joe. This was before I read the book, so I just thought it was a really odd coincidence at the time...I can't seem to find the article anymore, though. Does anyone else have any info on this? Was Joe changed to Jack to avoid legal troubles with the original ``Joe's XXXXXX`` author? : The author of the book was talking about real stories from Reader's Digest, so you probably did read the same ones he refered to. ``Joe`` is changed to ``Jack`` in the movie because Reader's Digest wasn't willing to allow them to mention it in the film. ::I have a copy of John Pekkanen's article ``I am John's Brain Tumour``, from Reader's Digest (South Africa) 1990-12, volume 137, number 824. Chapter 7 of my copy of Palahniuk's Fight club has ``I am Jane's Uterus. I am Joe's Prostate. [...] I am totally Joe's Gallbladder``, ISBN 0-099-28333-6, Vintage (1997) UK Random House. The English RD sites I searched came up empty. The earliet ``Joe``s I found were two 1974 videos from ``Pyramid Films``. I found that ``Pyramid Media`` credits it to RD . Does anyone have a source of an actual Reader's Digest article with ``Joe``? - , 2004-04-15t22:37z ::: It is mentioned on the commentary for the DVD that Reader's Digest told them not to use ``Joe``. Apperantely they own the copyright somehow. Either way, the narrator in the book does use Joe rather than Jack. And given that the book is the original story, I believe that ``Joe`` should be used more often in the article than ``Jack`` (though ``the narrator`` fits the character's ``name`` more accurately). The article seems to lean too much towards being about the movie, which makes it seem as if it was the original source material instead of the book. It would be best that we keep the article based mainly on the book, with details on the movie where applicable. Otherwise, what we would be doing would be the equivelent of someone making the Lord of the Rings article more about the Peter Jackson movie than JRR Tolkien's work. ==Tyler section== We should merge the Tyler Durden section into the characters section. There isn't a need for 2 separate sections on him. As it is it looks redundant and a bit sloppy. Any details that don't fit that section can go into a different one. ==Backstory of the novel== I just recently updated the article on Chuck Palahniuk with info on how Fight Club came to be. This is in the first paragraph of the Biography section. I was wondering if anyone thought we should include that info in this article, since it gives the backstory of how it was written. ]] ==Musical== This this for real? I've never heard such a thing, can anyone offer proof? 4:59, 05 Aug 2004 (UTC) :See http://www.playbill.com/news/article/86917.html for more details. Also a recent Guardian interview. ==Movie & Book Balance== As I mentioned above at the end of the Reader's Digest, Jack/Joe section, the article is ``biased`` towards the movie (that is, the info for the film is treated as being the primary source instead of the book), and needs to be balanced equally for the book. I have fixed a recent re-write of the plot section (which made it even more biased in favor of the film), but more work could be done to balance the article. I think that fixing this is the most important o

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::::I'm familiar with the part about No personal attacks and if you'll have a look at or my contributions you'll find that I'm moderately familiar with how Wikipedia works. Dropping out now, I've led you to water, but I can't make you drink. If you don't think the article should make things clear, there's apparently no way to convince you that it should.

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How can references in an encyclopedia to a generally accepted authority on a subject be irrelevant? While you may consider the book POV it is generally accepted among scholars as being authoritative. Can you see that is what allows it and material covered in it to be included in a reference work. The relevations of Khrushchev and Solzhenitsyn are also generally considered to be significant. You seem to feel that simply casting unverified aspersions on a source is sufficient to support exclusion of the material from Wikipedia. Don't you see that simply saying bad things doesn't change the underlying general acceptance by scholars of the material? As to Conquest's representations being exposed, it is generally accepted that in the main they were affirmed. Simply labeling something POV does not justify its removal from a referance work which has a NPOV policy which contemplates inclusion of multiple points of view, see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Can't you see that inclusion of your point of view is dependant on allowing other points of view to also be included? LIkewise describing the point of view of revisionist scholars of communism is simply a description of a tendency of scholars of a certain school of communist scholarship and is backed up by a specific reference which dicusses the subject at length. Could you please look at the book In Denial and verify the reference?

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` if it ``increases blood flow`` but may cause headaches, is this simply a way of saying that it is a vasodialator?`

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` ===Minimum basis of principle for co-operation=== OK, I am willing to work together with all of you, but only on the following basis: #that we all accept the existence and the legitimacy of our ``opponent's`` POV in the article. In practice, I think that this would mean that, if a particular POV is described in a paragraph, the ``opponent`` will not remove it, nor edit it so as to distort it, nor even weigh in with counterarguments (!). Counterarguments should receive their own paragraph, to describe them more thoroughly, they shouldn't be used to destroy a POV ; #no personal attacks #that we work in several stages, i.e. one side of the debate writes a full draft, and only after they are done can the other side edit the draft. In this way we could approach NPOV in several iterations. #that we focus on the bigger picture rather than bickering about details #that we leave the debate on the title for later. once we manage to write a full article, we will be so proud of ourselves that we will be able to solve that problem Who can agree to this? - ==Strategy for cooperative writing== Hello, I trust everyone had a good weekend? Jay, Buff and Pir, I would really like to work with you on the, er, list of bullet points. Some open issues remain: ===The title of the article we are writing=== Is it Occupation of Palestine, Arab-Israeli conflict, or what? ===The names of the sides=== Which leads to what we should call the sides which advocate the POVs expressed by Buff & Jay's, ah, 'duelling bullets' above. Arab vs. Israel? Worldwide consensus vs. a few extremists? PLO vs. right-wing Jews? ===How to work together=== I think we can get started on the article, even if we can't yet agree on where the article should go, and what we should call the ``sides``. But if the name of one side becomes a stumbling block, I don't know what to do. Buff, you're not going to insist that the POV you outlined on Friday (and which led me to hope for a peaceful Sabbath -) is the Palestinian side, are you? Can we attribute that POV to a particular person or organization instead? (We can note in the article that he or it claims to represent a side...) Let's list some working titles: * opposing views on the disposition of the region called Palestine * views of homeland creation in the Middle East * why there is no peace in Palestine * background of the Arab-Israeli conflict * your entries here All I know is that HistoryBuffER is trying very hard to conform to Wikipedia's NPOV policy, and that pir is being very nice and harmonious, and that Jay knows 100 times more history than I do. Sorry, I forgot to mention IZAK. He's helping, too, and knows some points of history. So, this brings our ``list of players`` up to: * Buff - ``pro-Palestinian`` but hates scare quotes! :: Disagree with POV characterization. Being pro-facts and pro-fairness means just that. If facts and fairness favor the Palestinian side that's just the fact of life and is not necessarily POV fairness is not always blind. 19:40, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC) * Ed - tries to be neutral but is really pro-Israel * IZAK - hotly pro-Israel * Jay - pro-Israel * Pir - very nice, harmonious person Are we all on board now?`

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Thank you most kindly for including the (R) symbol to denote a registered trademark.

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== renault == you sad little bpy for driving a renault clio which has no vaa voom so there and the mcflurry is made of shit

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== renault == you sad little bo for driving a renault clio which has no vaa voom so there and the mcflurry is made of shit

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` ::Perhaps more neutral wording, leaving out ``superiority``, and just factually examples such as this where capitalism is more tolerant and non-coercive towards communism and letting the reader decide whether tolerance is positive or not? `

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`::::::::A cheap excuse: ``quality`` is what pleases you. `

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One more thing- was there ever actually a vote to make Wikicode official WP policy? If not it isn't legitimate and should be on VFD right now

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:::How in Perun's sake he could have known that you are you? Copyright issue is a serious threat to wikipedia. Forseeing your response, a simple claim of authorship would do. We are not so bureaucratic here as it might seem.

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:If you can find accurate numbers and a source, please put them in.

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In the opinion poll conducted by MAC in 2000, 45% consider themselves as Taiwanese only. Now it is four years later. What do you think? I wonder if MAC either stopped or hided the opinion poll result so that it would not be too stimulative to PRC.

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