EMB ERJ 145 ER/LR
Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP)
Communication Breakdown
Deviation / Discrepancy - Procedural Published Material / Policy
Human Factors
Note: It should be noted that this is the third report submitted in regards to ramp personnel in the last 24 hours. During preflight duties; the first officer informed me that there was frost on the right aileron upper surface. I went outside to inspect the wing and determined that a Type I spray would be necessary. Upon informing the ramp lead; I was met with resistance and surprise that I even considered it. The temperature was 42 degrees Fahrenheit with clear skies; and an A320 was pushing off the other gate and did not require de-icing. I told him I would need it anyway since I confirmed frost was on the wing. A ramp agent; said there was just moisture; and it did not need de-iced. I rejected his claim; made him feel the left aileron; and he admitted there was ice. He exclaimed; 'you are the only captain in 15 flights this morning that needs it; but you are the captain; whatever you want (said sarcastically).' He further stated that he has worked with a 747 captain who took off with snow all over the wings; had 16 years experience; and that I do not have near the 747 and Airbus captains' experience (actually; I have 18000 hours) 'The Airbus captain has more experience than you; but you know more than he does'; he exclaimed. I told him there was no way to determine if the tail surfaces were clean and that an elevator stall was an alarming experience. He told me; 'you are a regional jet pilot on MY ramp and do not tell me anything in that tone of voice.' The discussion escalated into a verbal altercation; and he said he would have to go warm up the de-ice truck because of my decision; and that we would be late. I was incensed at this point and called the station manager on the phone. [He] was very supportive--as was the gate agent--and apologized for the incident. The flight departed two minutes early; de-iced; and was uneventful.I feel insulted and very concerned that this attitude is both dangerous as well as unprofessional. We do not need employees who second guess; argue with; and demean a regional jet captain and the crew. I am considering calling the HR Department on this incident.I am very concerned that ramp personnel are arguing with and degrading a captain and his crew's decision making. I have experienced [a] tail stall and do not want to experience this again. I highly doubt that a 747 nor an Airbus 320 captain would take off with ice and snow on their control surfaces; furthermore; that should not be a factor swaying me into taking off with frost on a control surface. I believe a stronger training program should be implemented which trains ramp agents; gate agents; and pilots to be on the same page when it comes to safety. A captain is a captain is a captain: whether it is a regional jet captain or a 747 captain.
Regional jet Captain gets into an altercation with Ramp Agent about deicing the aircraft. Aircraft was deiced.