Leap Next
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Kocman, Lubos
I'd like to share current plans and known changes for upcoming release of openSUSE Leap. This is supposed to be a higher level talk without technical deep dive.
 So let's talk about what is open-suzza leap. So you have two distributions in open-suzza. Actually, you could say maybe even more if you would come micro as and so on. But if we talk about the main ones, it's it's leap and tunnel leap, right? And the leap I like to say is trying to bridge community enterprise. And it's the distribution, which is based on the latest version of Suzza Linux Enterprise available to the date with typically a 12 months really cycle. I really like to use work typically here because of some of the next slides and the latest version of Suzza Linux Enterprise is also important for the very last slide. So the one earlier this year we had the retrospective and we asked users, what do they value about leap? You know, how did the release go and so on? It seems like the strong sides that were actually embraced by community where the installer stability seamless migrations, which were reported to be effortless than people in general loved just like maybe not the entire, you know, all the parts, but like generally they did. So this would be the, I would say, biggest strengths of leap. Some of them may actually be applicable also probably, but regarding migrations and stuff like this is this is the leap area. Distribution is often profiled as the most table one and easy to use. You can see on Reddit and so on. And, you know, I guess that the reason for it is that there shouldn't be any radical or disruptive changes in between minor updates. So and that's the transfers to service packs in sleep, but generally like we shouldn't, you know, completely break down distribution when it comes to packet set in between releases. And therefore I expect no issue, no bigger issues on migrations box says that, you know, this is the Linux distribution for begging beginners and pros. And some users say that this is the D KD distribution. So this this much about leap. Is there anybody who didn't hear about leap before just just to double check with the audience. Yeah, that's good. CTLG. That was already talked about Marcus Noga who kind of covered the building. Containers and closing believe the best wall here about closing the leap gap or skip the presentation from Marcus. Like I literally have like three slides about it. So not much. And I can go a little bit deeper if it's necessary. I think it everybody has some broad idea. So CTLG is a suicide driven effort to bring leap and sleep closer together than ever before. There's just bring some challenges, you know, some some new opportunities and also some pros and cons. I will talk about these opportunities and so on on my next talk here I really want to talk about the schedules and you know what to expect from next releases. If you would look at the effort, some people just see that we will change the way how the distribution is built, but there is a little bit more than that. So the categories that I see are basically that we are trying to unify the coast stream. You know, it may have been the case that leap and sleep sources were the same but if you build them in different built environment they actually have different outputs right maybe different features are enabled different rpms are built and so on. So we really want to unify this so this is the same with the exception of maybe branding and some other other features that can be very easily documented. The next part is the concept of building distribution which is what Marcus was talking about so we really want to reuse a Susie Lee signed rpms and combine it with outcome of open system backwards basically build once and chip twice if I simplified and you will have a 390 annually introduced in the next version of leap and also that comes also with real time that we have from sleep and so on. Then there are some tools and processes that we are introducing to community because if you if you base leap like on binaries that don't get rebuilt in obs just just sing them over and then use them. Like, you know, you don't have really good way to to, you know, change these binaries right and we really want to make sure that community has tools to submit change code requests against these binaries and you know like maybe open features if you don't feel like you know you are. You are gilips especially but needs more change or something like you should have a way and bugs allies for bugs and this is the case for sleep as well so I really want to make sure that community can use the features, you know, in the tool which is actually used for feature tracking and it's a really good way to do an engineers work on that in the same tool and so on. If you are interested I have a public talk about this exactly how the mirroring works, how you know the access to general looks like, and that's on the YouTube it's a public video from last week so feel free to watch it. I guess that if you do something like community requests, Susan, Susan up so you will you will find it. So open Susie Jam and where we are now and you had a question was the current status I hope that this will sort of you know give him some idea, and then dealing to the go no go decision has some more details than this that will be on the next slide. So, jump is basically the implementation of closing the lead gap. So it's a concept how to build distribution and the processes around basically the three categories that you've seen before. So what do we have so we have distribution images which are available available for wider testing since I believe late August 2020. So these are based on sleep 15 SP to updates that's very important. So we are actually, you know, so it's the 15 SP to and some forks of features that were rejected like for example, Susan didn't want to introduce maybe support of free Pascal compiler and GB test results and therefore we for GB to rebuild it, you know, it's the same source it just it's either built with or without the support. And so we for that, for example, and a few other cases like install images on someone. So this is on top of SP to there we actually have to take some packages from SP three to get migration working for example so there are few pieces regarding yes taken from SP three, but by the baseline is SP to updates redirection and mirroring of submit request is currently deployed so you can use that we can test that if you want if you reach out to me. So you can basically submit a submission against let's say bashing jump 15 to and if I approve the submission it will get mirroring to internal suze build system and it is major for Susan Linux enterprise depends on you know the origin of the bash and bash package in sleep I think this is the 15 updates. So they would actually see submission and in this case maintenance team notes notes the release measure would be processing it. So this works now. The only part which is missing this reporting back the updates from bots and so on but I was told that this should be done by end of the month. So just to confirm, we cannot just hot sleep like you cannot create let's say 1000 submissions like there is a person who is moderating them the person is part of the suicide review team so basically it's a new interview and new review and introduced for submissions against uses the project. So it's approved with combination of policy plugin, you know running like you can actually create the clone of the submission in the idea so it's not really request the plugin like it doesn't work just based on the approval. So we have a pilot for Jira access to community members. Thank you, Neil for for being part of the pilot. So we are regularly meeting on Mondays like in case you know like there is nothing like blocking it. And we go through currently open features and we make sure that some of them have updates and we review what's blocking and so on. So we have currently small budget for the pilot. And I'm not sure how it will be in the future I hope that you know this will get some popularity and we can improve improve the budget and so on. But that I have currently no more information about that unfortunately. But generally this is the way how she's it would like to see it happening so I believe that support first from Susie will be there. And migration. This is currently probably the most problematic problematic topic. We still hit some issues that are being worked out, but like, it's not effortless but what you can expect like once we are done is that basically you install. Let's say, jump. And then you can see that the migration is not really in the sleep and what happens is that, you know, aside from enabling the suitably repose, you will just exchange branding packages and the rest of packages in default installation unless you choose to take KDE will be identical to sleep packages so they shouldn't really be reinstalled. And the time actually spend on the migration should be way way way shorter. So the setup is unfortunately still in progress I believe that we are still missing the support for patch info which is being worked out otherwise to me there are no other blockers. So zipper update dash P wouldn't work with the current setup. Here is the image I know it's not as nice and simple as on Marcus's slides but basically the green parts are the parts which are introduced as processes or tools. So the, can you see my mouse actually when I'm moving it. So if you would look on the upper middle part of the screen you would see the small diamond which is the redirection of the submission so if you always submit to jump or maybe futurely plus elite 153 and based on where the package comes from if it's backports if it's if it's jump because we had to fork the package like it will be redirected what it's supposed to be if it's susie sleep you know you know that there is an extra review. I will or Max or somebody from open Susie release team will approve the review and then the the OSC plugin will actually mirror it into internal SUSE build service and that will actually appear as a regular Susie sleep submission with with a big banner that this is a public submission and that the information is being synced out outside to OBS. So and then once it's accepted we actually inherited and then the future version of people basically inherited as binaries right after the build Evan finished in the in the IBS that triggers the thing and therefore we will get you know binary as well. Or jump in this case but I actually draw it before we knew the code name I believe so it's leave on the on the picture. Here is the Jira on the left upper part the green box is the Jira features. And there is that contributor who opens them to a little guy on the left. And these get to the process and our process as regular partner requests which is nice. We haven't had that before. And yeah and the thing is on the single for pms and sources from IBS to OBS is on the left upper part sorry right upper part the green. How would you call it. It's not boxes right. Yeah and the green cans let's say. I think it's a database scheme. What is used for so this is the overview of changes. So let's talk 15 to one you may have heard it you may you may have not. So leave 15 to one you guys can see the screen right. So this is this is supposed to be an intermediate release and the release really depends it was originally aimed at October. I'm actually aiming it in the first on the first week of November. And it was supposed to enroll the jump concept into production before the next release happened. So, you know, with with like, I would say with some parts we are ready with some parts I believe that we still need some extra time. Like I would really like to discuss it with all stakeholders and and and you know like figure out if we receive no goal for certain parts like what's the condition. And if we can actually fix it until the release and so one. So this is still open topic whether the release will happen or not. We may also agree on small delay or we may just agree to go directly to 15 three. Let's let's one wait until Tuesday it was supposed to be Monday originally but some of the stakeholders didn't unfortunately have a time slot in the calendar. So we decided to go for Tuesday morning. The link for the interlock if you would like to see what we are signing up is is Cindy third paragraph. So that has kind of list of stakeholders that was sent to factory and project so far. There Miller was the person who wanted to be at it on the list so he's there now. If you want to be there, feel free to let me know I can add. Don't just, you know, like edit the wiki send me an email because there is also invitation linked with the virtual conference link that that will take place on Tuesday. So just just email me and I will handle it. It's intentionally placed after this conference right because you would like to absorb the feedback from the comment because this is the aspect that sometimes being skipped like we really want to make sure that you know we don't do any any harm to the community and everybody knows what's happening. You know why and they they see constant pros. So if you want to we can we can stay a little bit longer in the chat room we can talk about talk about it if something's unclear, you know, like, you can you can raise the concern and we can see if we can fix it, or if it was maybe already addressed. So open to the 15th three. So based on the open to the board this recommendation a decision recommendation to proceed with the jump concept or closing the lead gap. And it's likely to be fully based on Susie Linux Enterprise binary. So why fully based and what about the previous, you know, leave 15 to one what's the difference. So, I mentioned the unification of cold streams on previous slide that we really want to make sure that, you know, like, if you would build a package on leap and sleep like they would basically have the exact same outputs even if, you know, they wouldn't be binary identical they would have basically same outcomes. And and right now at this moment we are not done with all the all the packages so there was roughly 100 something I think 130 or 120 packages that were different let's say there was a glass trap support there wasn't you know on one side on the other and so one three Pascal compiler support in GB test results on the on leapside not on sleep side. So we are working them out so far only two features were ejected out of 130 so there is really like big effort from Susie to make sure that they adopt features, which is good some people were afraid that we will just start you know, like removing features but this is not happening and always when we actually drop feature like recently the SDL support in QM there is like notification to factory we talk to factory if it makes sense in this case, we decided to go in favor of GTK. So, you know, it was dropped from not only leap but also from factory so I feel like this is the best case scenario like how we can clean up you know the package. And so in 15 three we are expected to be done with all of these 130 right now I believe 40 is missing mainly the words tech so you know the word the word manager live word QM they would be a little bit different and sleep and and and jump. And that will change in 15 three. So far I haven't seen any feature to be rejected except of the QM you SDL. So rest of the rest I just expected to be the same which is good. That's beyond my expectations. And what did I mention, yeah, some people ask, when does the leap in three development starts. So we are now focusing on jump and you know like after the go no go decision that we will have on next Tuesday will basically either proceed with 15 to one and then or we will start development of 15 three right away. So this is basically why the 15 three is not yet set up in OBS because we were really focusing on the possibility of the intermediate release which we will know about next Tuesday. And to be to be fair, you know, there is some development already happening because if you know that it's based on suicide sleep binaries. And 15 three is actually being worked on as we speak so therefore for for 4000 packages development heaven and stop at all. You could say the same about factory relation to live but like, you know, it's not that we are frozen. So what about next next release. So that's actually really tricky because if you if you check the link that I shared this is the public presentation by kai duke about sleep 15 roadmap which is currently basically saying that you can expect five service packs and certain you know like dates, you know it's it's no secret right we have very predictable releases which are 12 months from each other. So you can sort of guess when the next release will be released. And if you if you check, I believe it was like 17 which was showing when usually in those future products and this is, you know, like just me talking to you it's not official statement or anything. It's not in the very last service back right and if you if you can expect five service packs then you know it will be most likely for or maybe with the fifth one if there will be a new product. And since I've mentioned on the very first slide that leap is based on the latest version of Susie Linux enterprise. You know, may happen that we will be based on not sleep 15 cost frame. And this is this is important to keep in mind. So I see a really cool option see that we will be based on Susie sleep 15 service back for if there is no next generation product and you know or we will be based on the next product in case that it's compatible with the type of distribution so if it would be let's say I don't know just just talking crazy if it would be rolling release. Does it make sense to have two rolling releases in open to them maybe it does maybe it doesn't. But like in this case I would consider maybe basing it's still on 15 as before, even when there will be newer product available. So I think setting stone, according to roadmap, like I told you the expected 12 months really cycle, but the development should start in next summer. So by next summer we should already know what's what's the plan, but until you know, as of today, like I still have these two options that I have to somehow come with. And this is basically it so now I would like to, you know, hear questions or complaints or concerns. Thank you.
 So let's talk about what is open-suzza leap.  So you have two distributions in open-suzza.  Actually, you could say maybe even more if you would come micro as and so on.  But if we talk about the main ones, it's it's leap and tunnel leap, right?  And the leap I like to say is trying to bridge community enterprise.  And it's the distribution, which is based on the latest version of Suzza Linux Enterprise available to the date with typically a 12 months really cycle.  I really like to use work typically here because of some of the next slides and the latest version of Suzza Linux Enterprise is also important for the very last slide.  So the one earlier this year we had the retrospective and we asked users, what do they value about leap?  You know, how did the release go and so on?  It seems like the strong sides that were actually embraced by community where the installer stability seamless migrations, which were reported to be effortless than people in general loved just like maybe not the entire, you know, all the parts, but like generally they did.  So this would be the, I would say, biggest strengths of leap.  Some of them may actually be applicable also probably, but regarding migrations and stuff like this is this is the leap area.  Distribution is often profiled as the most table one and easy to use. You can see on Reddit and so on.  And, you know, I guess that the reason for it is that there shouldn't be any radical or disruptive changes in between minor updates.  So and that's the transfers to service packs in sleep, but generally like we shouldn't, you know, completely break down distribution when it comes to packet set in between releases.  And therefore I expect no issue, no bigger issues on migrations box says that, you know, this is the Linux distribution for begging beginners and pros.  And some users say that this is the D KD distribution.  So this this much about leap. Is there anybody who didn't hear about leap before just just to double check with the audience.  Yeah, that's good. CTLG. That was already talked about Marcus Noga who kind of covered the building.  Containers and closing believe the best wall here about closing the leap gap or skip the presentation from Marcus.  Like I literally have like three slides about it. So not much. And I can go a little bit deeper if it's necessary.  I think it everybody has some broad idea. So CTLG is a suicide driven effort to bring leap and sleep closer together than ever before.  There's just bring some challenges, you know, some some new opportunities and also some pros and cons.  I will talk about these opportunities and so on on my next talk here I really want to talk about the schedules and you know what to expect from next releases.  If you would look at the effort, some people just see that we will change the way how the distribution is built, but there is a little bit more than that.  So the categories that I see are basically that we are trying to unify the coast stream.  You know, it may have been the case that leap and sleep sources were the same but if you build them in different built environment they actually have different outputs right maybe different features are enabled different rpms are built and so on.  So we really want to unify this so this is the same with the exception of maybe branding and some other other features that can be very easily documented.  The next part is the concept of building distribution which is what Marcus was talking about so we really want to reuse a Susie Lee signed rpms and combine it with outcome of open system backwards basically build once and chip twice if I simplified and you will have a 390  annually introduced in the next version of leap and also that comes also with real time that we have from sleep and so on.  Then there are some tools and processes that we are introducing to community because if you if you base leap like on binaries that don't get rebuilt in obs just just sing them over and then use them.  Like, you know, you don't have really good way to to, you know, change these binaries right and we really want to make sure that community has tools to submit change code requests against these binaries and you know like maybe open features if you don't feel like you know you are.  You are gilips especially but needs more change or something like you should have a way and bugs allies for bugs and this is the case for sleep as well so I really want to make sure that community can use the features, you know, in the tool which is actually used for feature tracking and it's  a really good way to do an engineers work on that in the same tool and so on. If you are interested I have a public talk about this exactly how the mirroring works, how you know the access to general looks like, and that's on the YouTube it's a public video from  last week so feel free to watch it. I guess that if you do something like community requests, Susan, Susan up so you will you will find it. So open Susie Jam and where we are now and you had a question was the current status I hope that this will sort of you know give him some idea, and then dealing to  the go no go decision has some more details than this that will be on the next slide. So, jump is basically the implementation of closing the lead gap. So it's a concept how to build distribution and the processes around basically the three categories that you've seen  before. So what do we have so we have distribution images which are available available for wider testing since I believe late August 2020. So these are based on sleep 15 SP to updates that's very important. So we are actually, you know, so it's the 15 SP to and some  forks of features that were rejected like for example, Susan didn't want to introduce maybe support of free Pascal compiler and GB test results and therefore we for GB to rebuild it, you know, it's the same source it just it's either built with or without the support.  And so we for that, for example, and a few other cases like install images on someone. So this is on top of SP to there we actually have to take some packages from SP three to get migration working for example so there are few pieces regarding yes taken from  SP three, but by the baseline is SP to updates redirection and mirroring of submit request is currently deployed so you can use that we can test that if you want if you reach out to me. So you can basically submit a submission against let's say bashing jump 15 to and if I  approve the submission it will get mirroring to internal suze build system and it is major for Susan Linux enterprise depends on you know the origin of the bash and bash package in sleep I think this is the 15 updates.  So they would actually see submission and in this case maintenance team notes notes the release measure would be processing it.  So this works now. The only part which is missing this reporting back the updates from bots and so on but I was told that this should be done by end of the month.  So just to confirm, we cannot just hot sleep like you cannot create let's say 1000 submissions like there is a person who is moderating them the person is part of the suicide review team so basically it's a new interview and new review and introduced for submissions against uses the project.  So it's approved with combination of policy plugin, you know running like you can actually create the clone of the submission in the idea so it's not really request the plugin like it doesn't work just based on the approval.  So we have a pilot for Jira access to community members. Thank you, Neil for for being part of the pilot. So we are regularly meeting on Mondays like in case you know like there is nothing like blocking it.  And we go through currently open features and we make sure that some of them have updates and we review what's blocking and so on.  So we have currently small budget for the pilot. And I'm not sure how it will be in the future I hope that you know this will get some popularity and we can improve improve the budget and so on.  But that I have currently no more information about that unfortunately.  But generally this is the way how she's it would like to see it happening so I believe that support first from Susie will be there.  And migration. This is currently probably the most problematic problematic topic. We still hit some issues that are being worked out, but like, it's not effortless but what you can expect like once we are done is that basically you install.  Let's say, jump.  And then you can see that the migration is not really in the sleep and what happens is that, you know, aside from enabling the suitably repose, you will just exchange branding packages and the rest of packages in default installation unless you choose to take KDE will be identical to sleep  packages so they shouldn't really be reinstalled. And the time actually spend on the migration should be way way way shorter.  So the setup is unfortunately still in progress I believe that we are still missing the support for patch info which is being worked out otherwise to me there are no other blockers.  So zipper update dash P wouldn't work with the current setup.  Here is the image I know it's not as nice and simple as on Marcus's slides but basically the green parts are the parts which are introduced as processes or tools.  So the, can you see my mouse actually when I'm moving it.  So if you would look on the upper middle part of the screen you would see the small diamond which is the redirection of the submission so if you always submit to jump or maybe futurely plus elite 153 and based on where the package comes from if it's backports if it's if it's  jump because we had to fork the package like it will be redirected what it's supposed to be if it's susie sleep you know you know that there is an extra review.  I will or Max or somebody from open Susie release team will approve the review and then the the OSC plugin will actually mirror it into internal SUSE build service and that will actually appear as a regular Susie sleep submission with with a big banner that this is a public  submission and that the information is being synced out outside to OBS.  So and then once it's accepted we actually inherited and then the future version of people basically inherited as binaries right after the build Evan finished in the in the IBS that triggers the thing and therefore we will get you know binary as well.  Or jump in this case but I actually draw it before we knew the code name I believe so it's leave on the on the picture.  Here is the Jira on the left upper part the green box is the Jira features.  And there is that contributor who opens them to a little guy on the left.  And these get to the process and our process as regular partner requests which is nice.  We haven't had that before. And yeah and the thing is on the single for pms and sources from IBS to OBS is on the left upper part sorry right upper part the green.  How would you call it.  It's not boxes right.  Yeah and the green cans let's say.  I think it's a database scheme.  What is used for so this is the overview of changes.  So let's talk 15 to one you may have heard it you may you may have not.  So leave 15 to one you guys can see the screen right.  So this is this is supposed to be an intermediate release and the release really depends it was originally aimed at October.  I'm actually aiming it in the first on the first week of November.  And it was supposed to enroll the jump concept into production before the next release happened.  So, you know, with with like, I would say with some parts we are ready with some parts I believe that we still need some extra time.  Like I would really like to discuss it with all stakeholders and and and you know like figure out if we receive no goal for certain parts like what's the condition.  And if we can actually fix it until the release and so one.  So this is still open topic whether the release will happen or not. We may also agree on small delay or we may just agree to go directly to 15 three.  Let's let's one wait until Tuesday it was supposed to be Monday originally but some of the stakeholders didn't unfortunately have a time slot in the calendar.  So we decided to go for Tuesday morning.  The link for the interlock if you would like to see what we are signing up is is Cindy third paragraph.  So that has kind of list of stakeholders that was sent to factory and project so far.  There Miller was the person who wanted to be at it on the list so he's there now.  If you want to be there, feel free to let me know I can add.  Don't just, you know, like edit the wiki send me an email because there is also invitation linked with the virtual conference link that that will take place on Tuesday.  So just just email me and I will handle it.  It's intentionally placed after this conference right because you would like to absorb the feedback from the comment because this is the aspect that sometimes being skipped like we really want to make sure that you know we don't do any any harm to the community and everybody knows what's happening.  You know why and they they see constant pros.  So if you want to we can we can stay a little bit longer in the chat room we can talk about talk about it if something's unclear, you know, like, you can you can raise the concern and we can see if we can fix it, or if it was maybe already addressed.  So open to the 15th three. So based on the open to the board this recommendation a decision recommendation to proceed with the jump concept or closing the lead gap.  And it's likely to be fully based on Susie Linux Enterprise binary. So why fully based and what about the previous, you know, leave 15 to one what's the difference.  So, I mentioned the unification of cold streams on previous slide that we really want to make sure that, you know, like, if you would build a package on leap and sleep like they would basically have the exact same outputs even if, you know, they wouldn't be binary identical  they would have basically same outcomes. And  and right now at this moment we are not done with all the all the packages so there was roughly 100 something I think 130 or 120 packages that were different let's say there was a glass trap support there wasn't you know on one side on the other and so one  three Pascal compiler support in GB test results on the on leapside not on sleep side. So we are working them out so far only two features were ejected out of 130 so there is really like big effort from Susie to make sure that they adopt features, which is good some  people were afraid that we will just start you know, like removing features but this is not happening and always when we actually drop feature like recently the SDL support in QM there is like notification to factory we talk to  factory if it makes sense in this case, we decided to go in favor of GTK. So, you know, it was dropped from not only leap but also from factory so I feel like this is the best case scenario like how we can clean up you know the package.  And so in 15 three we are expected to be done with all of these 130 right now I believe 40 is missing mainly the words tech so you know the word the word manager live word QM they would be a little bit different and sleep and and and jump.  And that will change in 15 three. So far I haven't seen any feature to be rejected except of the QM you SDL. So rest of the rest I just expected to be the same which is good.  That's beyond my expectations. And what did I mention, yeah, some people ask, when does the leap in three development starts. So we are now focusing on jump and you know like after the go no go decision that we will have on next Tuesday will basically either proceed with 15 to one and then  or we will start development of 15 three right away.  So this is basically why the 15 three is not yet set up in OBS because we were really focusing on the possibility of the intermediate release which we will know about next Tuesday.  And to be to be fair, you know, there is some development already happening because if you know that it's based on suicide sleep binaries.  And 15 three is actually being worked on as we speak so therefore for for 4000 packages development heaven and stop at all.  You could say the same about factory relation to live but like, you know, it's not that we are frozen.  So what about next next release.  So that's actually really tricky because if you if you check the link that I shared this is the public presentation by kai duke about sleep 15 roadmap which is currently basically saying that you can expect five service packs and certain you know like dates, you know it's it's no secret right we  have very predictable releases which are 12 months from each other.  So you can sort of guess when the next release will be released. And if you if you check, I believe it was like 17 which was showing when usually in those future products and this is, you know, like just me talking to you it's not official statement or anything.  It's not in the very last service back right and if you if you can expect five service packs then you know it will be most likely for or maybe with the fifth one if there will be a new product.  And since I've mentioned on the very first slide that leap is based on the latest version of Susie Linux enterprise.  You know, may happen that we will be based on not sleep 15 cost frame. And this is this is important to keep in mind. So I see a really cool option see that we will be based on Susie sleep 15 service back for if there is no next generation product and you know or we will be based on the next  product in case that it's compatible with the type of distribution so if it would be let's say I don't know just just talking crazy if it would be rolling release.  Does it make sense to have two rolling releases in open to them maybe it does maybe it doesn't. But like in this case I would consider maybe basing it's still on 15 as before, even when there will be newer product available.  So I think setting stone, according to roadmap, like I told you the expected 12 months really cycle, but the development should start in next summer.  So by next summer we should already know what's what's the plan, but until you know, as of today, like I still have these two options that I have to somehow come with.  And this is basically it so now I would like to, you know, hear questions or complaints or concerns.  Thank you.
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