Hell Yeah, it's Rocket Science!
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Becker, Karsten
Böhme, Robert
Founded by scientists and engineers in their spare time, the Part-Time Scientists compete in a new space race towards landing the first private spacecraft on the moon. Will this be the end for missions like Curiosity? Or is this the dawn of a new Space 2.0? Get to know the Part-Time Scientists, their team of rocket scientists, and embark with them and the German Aerospace Center (DLR) on a heartful discussion on the future of private space exploration! The Part-Time Scientists are among the top 5 teams in the Google Lunar XPRIZE competition, a new space race towards the moon. The international team of scientists and engineers is based right here in Berlin, Germany, and spent the past three years building the technology to get back to the moon for good. The goal of the competition is to land a rover safely on the surface of the moon and travel a distance of at least 500 meters, over 43 years after man last walked the moon.
 Welcome back to science. Welcome at Republica 2013. So we got a gorgeous space track in cooperation for example with the German Aerospace Center and with the Helmholtz Gemeinschaft and the DLR, the German Aerospace Center, is providing us really interesting speakers. They are Carsten Becker and Romot Böhmel and they are part-time scientists and what that means they will talk about. Okay, hello everyone. I'm Robert, this is Carsten and as kindly introduced we are the part-time scientists and today I want to talk to you a little bit about rocket science and space exploration. So as I want to do a very short talk and then start a hopefully lively discussion with you, so a very short question to get you kicked off. Do you like space exploration? Everybody raises their hand who is in favor of space exploration. That is awesome, thank you. Okay, so we see if we maybe change this attitude or maybe can excited a little bit more. Okay, so slide us up and get started. So basically I want to show you something first. Before we talk about a little bit about us, let's talk about the guys from Google who did something which is the Google Luna Express competition. So these two co-founders that founded the search and Google set up and made a bet. The bet is basically said that if you can get a rover to the moon then you get 30 million US dollars from us. So it's basically a simple bet with three simple really hard challenges that you have to overcome. If you want to actually get something to the moon, the very hardest challenge that you face first is launching, which basically means you have to get off the ground into space. It actually sounds quite maybe quite simple nowadays because there's rockets everywhere and we got the space shuttle and things like this, but actually getting into space requires a lot of energy and a lot of sophisticated rocket science and in the end it all turns out to be it also requires a lot of money. So the very first challenge is getting into space. The second challenge which is almost as challenging as getting into space is safely landing on the surface. So you have to think about the following thing. Once you're in space and approaching the moon, okay, thank you. Once you're in space and approaching the moon then you're basically traveling with kilometers per second as speed. So we're talking about really have to think about this unit what it means kilometer per second. It really means that in a fraction of a second if you make just one tiny calculation error you either go pretty on a pretty deep dive into the lunar surface or fly make a very far away flyby and both of this has happened in the past. Yeah those so-called TPEC impact missions they are a little bit more easy than soft landing definitely. Actually there are some actually scientific quite fruitful deep impact missions and actually trying to make an best impact as possible in this case. But as said being earlier landing safely is really hard and what is required when you want to get to another planet is what scientists always call a soft landing. It sounds really sweet but it's not soft. This basically means that you turn off your engines and a head of three meter and you have three meter free fall. If you try this on Earth you will notice it's not soft. And the second thing that is actually really the fun part of this Google and X-Pyce challenge is being on the moon doing awesome science collecting data and send it back to Earth. However there is this really tiny big maybe a little bit challenging in there as well because the goal is to be on the surface and do HD video and send it back to Earth. HD video sounds totally awesome. You got a smartphone in your pocket and it can do HD video. You can send it over to YouTube. It's nice but try this on the moon. You will get a lot of problems with bandwidth and actually capturing this thing. So having cameras that can record HD video without being blown away by the radiation for example. Or for example get the stuff back to Earth as I said with bandwidth. It's not just a telecom that is limiting your bandwidth. In this case it's space which is. So and I've talked a little bit about the guys from Google giving you a good reason to go to space. So and if you think about so-called as Americans always call it incentive prices. So people motivating you with money. Then there is a big case in history that comes to mind. There were a lot of incentive prices for maybe for discovering new continents or doing different things but one very famous one was the Oteek price. It was set out by Raymond Oteek who actually said I don't believe that it's impossible to cross the Atlantic because by the time Raymond Oteek lived it was 19 something. Everybody was saying it's impossible to have a plane cross the Atlantic. And he said I don't like the word impossible. I'm giving this big amount of money to somebody who proves me wrong. And yeah he actually found somebody. There were a lot of people who tried cross the Atlantic. Most of them I think most all of them died. And but there was one guy who succeeded and we got really famous which is Charles Lindbergh with the spirit of St. Louis. And what what this led to is basically we started out in a time where this was impossible to cross the Atlantic and five years after Charles Lindbergh landed in the United States he actually kicked off the entire aviation industry that we know today. It led to the so-called Lindbergh boom. So the Lindbergh boom was basically in less than five years we had from five aviation airports that we have in had we had in Europe but mostly belong to the military. We started having private airports and private airlines and today you can get to Mallorca for less than $30. So it's all just because one man said I don't believe the word impossible. And a lot of people tried and that waged their life on this. So now come back to the part-time scientists this is who we are. So the part-time scientists is a team of scientists and engineers. It's about 100 of them. We are an international team and we are rooted here in Berlin actually. And we got subsidiaries very large ones in Hamburg Salzburg and the United States. Okay so and basically our team is not just consisting most people always think we are a team of students but actually just a little bit far from to because our team consists of scientists engineers from all fields who are actually for example partly working in the aerospace industry or working in the IT industry or other fields that are really interested in technology that can work towards to space exploration. So what I'm really proud of is for example that we have people who worked on the original Apollo program on our team as well which is really cool. For example Jack Crenshaw who was the trajectory calculations leader of Apollo 11. So yeah in the part-time you know in the evening we are getting in our part-time's jacket and we are plugging into Mumble and then we're discussing what needs to be done and then we do it and on the next week we are happy to see what we have done and this way we created what we have now. Unfortunately not with us but I will show you a picture of that later. Would we have something with us? So yeah okay and so basically that is what the part-time sign is. So it's a very I don't know excited group of engineers doing space exploration technology and we want our goal is to change the way space exploration is working today. So we really want to give a good struck of innovation to the way that is currently happening. So you will show you a little bit of what our goal is. So talking about goals we got a little big one that you can see outside of a window at night which is the moon. Our goal as I said earlier there's a good incentive to go there and our goal is to get to the moon and be the first to land a private rover there. And so the goal is not just to have a rover driving around the moon it's about enabling technology to make space exploration go further because right now we are 43 years after the last man walked on the moon and we couldn't be more far away from the moon than we are today. We actually know far more about Mars than we know about moon so actually there's very good reasons to go there and to show you the Apollo 17 landing site. This is the area we want to go to the moon. It's something that we picked together with our friends from the DLR which is there's some scientific reasons to it that we choose the Apollo 17. For example if you look at it you can see that it's more like it's a little bit like a dune area so you can see all these these hills and it's all it's a lot of sand it's actually not sand it's so-called regalif and lunar regalif. Oh okay the lunar regalif is actually if you look at one tiny corn of lunar regalif it's thousand it's a thousand times smaller than the tiniest corn of sand that you can find here on Earth. So what this means this lunar regalif is working against each other the entire time on the lunar surface so you got some really nasty stuff up there. This stuff is so dangerous that it actually got through the airtight suits of the astronauts so these guys were really shocked when they got back into their spacecraft. Take off their hand shoes. Clothes. Thank you. So took off their gloves and had black hands so they were really scared and NASA really had some big issues with keeping the regalif out of systems and damaging stuff and this is something where Kast will tell you a little bit more how we are dealing with it. And another thing which is also at Apollo 17 which is quite interesting is of course the Apollo landing site. We worked a little bit with NASA on this and NASA has a really strong interest in finding out how this area looks like today because what you can see here of course this module over there is no longer there. Somebody took it to a right home but what they actually interested in is finding out how all these stuff still looks like on the surface because you have to understand one thing there was one Apollo mission who went to a surveyor landing site. Surveyor was a probe that we sent to the moon before getting to there with Apollo and we tried to understand how it decayed how this material was I don't know worked on by space because the moon has no atmosphere nothing to protect you from space and what was really interesting is that I think after a little bit like two years on the moon this survey a probe really was I don't know really worked out so there was a lot of ablation on the material and things like this. And they want to take a picture of the flag and see if it's still waving and take pictures so that the conspired theories are all you know okay so I think you know it's time to talk about our lunar rover that we've developed with CDLR and I'm sure yeah exactly so and so when the Google X price was set we we started to develop rovers immediately and some of those you can see standing in front there those are actually our software engineering models that we are giving to our software guys so that they have something to play with and the reason that we developed those is that those are much cheaper than the one that you can see here you know this one is a few two hundred thousand few hundred thousands of euros and we cannot afford to give every software developer one of those even though they are much more fun you know they can yeah I would love to get one of those this one can drive in serious terrain this is fun really I can tell because most of the time I'm driving yeah so we developed some rovers and in the meantime we learned something for example in the beginning we had a very small rover and we developed it we made it more bigger because we realized that we need a bigger bigger solar panel because we need more energy but I will come to that later so what you can see here is a what seems to be a very boring four-wheel configuration and you know all the hype is about six wheels you know all the mass rovers they have six wheels why didn't we choose six wheels because we make our own trends you know we are saying we are cool we're making four wheels and those four wheels they can be steered independently so if you're if you have more time you can you can go come to us later and you can drive around with the small software development rovers and you can see how flexible this is we can turn around on the spot we can drive around obstacles and this is really the idea behind our rover that we are just avoiding the obstacle instead of just going above it if we cannot avoid going over obstacle we can we can lift one of the wheels and you know yeah adjust the levels it's actually the best way to get get around the lunar surface that we found because if you remember for example certain mass rovers there were actually missions who got stuck on walks and things like this and if you look at this design it actually enables you to really from our perspective get out of most bad situations that can arise yeah we as I said we are very tested and really serious to run and you can see some of the movies that we took about it on YouTube if you are following us on our channel but you know there's a little bit more to it as well so one of the big problems that we having on the moon is that there is no atmosphere you know we cannot just put a fan on the rover unfortunately and cool the electronics with it and the outside temperature can rise up to 120 130 degrees Celsius and but the electronics really just doesn't like that high temperatures so we need to find a smart way to get rid of the all of the energy that we are collecting from the Sun and so this way we designed the rover in such a way that we can radiate the heat away from the body so that the inside temperature is just below 100 degrees Celsius which electronics is slightly more comfortable that but it's still kind of hot yeah it's a really nice sounder temperature um Oscar because we are Germans where we don't want to do a one-time shot where we just drive like 500 meters but and then everything falls apart you know if we do something we do it right and this is why we have a solar panel you know we have the solar panel is providing us with a steady stream of energy that we can use for driving around and yeah if it's not falling apart during the first day we can try for on the first day the problem is in the night it will become minus 120 degrees and then all the beds are off because no one is going to guarantee you that anything is surviving this temperature this low you have to tell you have to know a little bit about the moon in this case because one day on the moon is actually 14 and a half days here on Earth and it really means you have a temperature shift of over 250 degrees Celsius so try to think of anything that you got in your home on electronics that can survive a change in temperature of 250 degrees you won't find anything that is actually a very big thing that you have to struggle with and the reason for example why the solar panel is a good reusable approaches because there are actually people out there developing space hardware which can only one on a let's say and ending fuel so you put some rocket fuel in there and let it drive on a planet and once the fuel is out then yeah okay nice rover so and that is the point by I think it's really good to have this solar panel which is actually capable of capturing the best amount of Sun because of this way it turns this panel another feature that we have on the rover is our cameras obviously because you want to take pictures and we have two of those so that you can expect really nice 3d HD video from the moon and those are in color we had discussions if we need color because everything is gray there anyway but we decided that we should have color so that you can see that if the flag is really there and has the color on it yeah so those stereoscopic cameras they are not just providing really nice pictures for the people on Earth but we also use them to build a 3d map of the surrounding so that we can use it for navigation I will show a little video a little bit later about that okay so another thing that is very important if you are building a lunar rover that all of you have done this probably and know that there is a lunar regulars that what was mentioning earlier it's a very fine powder and the downside of this very fine powder is that it gets into everything especially you know everything there is actually you can't keep it out of the system that's the point and that's the entire reason for protecting the system of seals so the problem is when you're when it when it goes into mechanics you know mechanic may fail and this is a bad thing you don't want to have the mechanics to fail if you are able if you're standing on the moon and you can't drive this is really bad yeah you have to actually have to understand because it the design of the seals that we've came up with is a so-called labyrinth design which basically means we want to get the lunar regulars to get inside the system to get a trap there so if you have a labyrinth seal design which basically means using the material that gets inside the system to block other material to get inside as well it's pretty complex design and I have to admit I never understood it fully at first but it was quite nice to see that it that is actually working which is the cool thing and yeah so that's actually because once your drives have failed on the moon then there's definitely no way to go this you can't pay any kind of HDAC monthly fee to get up there and repair your over so better protected so one of the other things that we also need is to have motors that are actually working on the surface of the moon and for this we contacted the DLR because we are not really you know the well the space people we have no experience doing this missions but we got into contact with the DLR the German aerospace agency and you know they helped us with with some of their technology that they have and the motors for example are one part that they can do best and we are using those in our rover to drive around because those motors are used in Toro or the former formerly known as Justin it's a robot that is very sensitive you can it can touch and feel stuff and he can also cook coffee so there is a good chance that you will have one of those in your home very soon maybe not so soon but maybe a little bit too expensive I would I definitely would want to have one of those you know it's really awesome you know look what post you can do it but okay but the point is I think really is that you have really have a lot of sensors in this drive I think it's you didn't mention that this robot drive technology right no no but I don't if it didn't then I did so and that's actually the point so there's a lot of sensors in this brushless drives and you have to think about why using something like brush less drive the name actually suggests why it's a good thing for the moon because because there's actually no contact in the wheels or nothing afflicted by the regular that could get inside this part or actually we are out of the sometime so brushes drives are really the way to go but it's not so easy because they are based on certain components which have a lot of problems with the temperature shift so and that is the reason why and why we use this drives and they were actually I think I don't know if you mentioned it but anyway the DLR actually developed these for an experiment that they did on the ISS which was pretty successful and quite cool yeah another thing that we are developing with together with the DLR is for example the autonomy the total has kind of the ability to as I said cook coffee which is which sounds trivial but it's a really complicated task and unit autonomy for that and so we teamed up with them and they put their autonomy software into our rovers which by the way is the same one that is using in the Mercedes 4D sensing environment and yeah what you can see here is that it's it's building a map of its surrounding and with this map you can tell it to just go there which has a distinct advantage that because the processing is happening in real time on the rover that you can drive further than if you just you know said driving on the moon as well because there is a three second delay that you have to take into care when you're driving on the moon surface you want to interrupt me I want to take this one okay and I want to interrupt you yes no I totally agree in this and the point is that this technology really helps us to make the exploration of another planet go much faster in this case because we actually trust doing a lot of simulations here on earth and trying to test drive things as possible but it's really good if you have a system which actually capable of understanding what is good or bad on a certain environment because if you add the distinct I don't know I was lucky enough to witness one of the Mars rovers doing its early test runs and one thing that you can actually see if you have one Mars rover doing a test operation in front of you is actually that it's driving standing still looking around thinking about thinking do a little bit more thinking and then deciding on which way to go next which is something that takes a really long time and that is also a reason why it takes so long to cross certain distances on another planets on Mars actually you really really really need on autonomy because you have latencies I think more than eight minutes so I think up to a quarter so and that is the point so there's actually no way somebody is driving it on earth because if you drive it and you see oh my god I'm hitting a rock and you already hit it some time ago or we definitely will there's no chance to avoid it and that is the point so this autonomy in the case of the moon we have a three-second delay but even though was even still was three seconds it's a very good way to drive fast on a surface if the rover can do this okay so I just want to kick off the next one so one thing that is really important for us today is that as we said and we love private space exploration we really do this stuff we really like it and we really want to get space exploration going again so making it possible to at some point get a base on the moon for example like this because the question is if you think back to the Apollo program the question is why people will love of ask you why haven't we have something like this today because back at the Apollo program if you ask the people and they would probably said hey yeah and 10 years from now or 20 years we will be on the moon again or we will be constantly there and there's a lot of reason for this and the biggest struggle that space exploration and everything that you like when it comes to space has is always funding and that is something want to talk to you about custom prepared to do something that would be pretty interesting for you to have a look at how funding currently works and we want to talk you a little bit about you what you think about it afterwards yeah so I thought about all the sources of money that you have in a traditional space mission and or in a not so traditional space mission and what the results could possibly be and I want to ask you a question who of you think that the government should spend more on doing missions and space exploration okay fair enough who of you think that private corporations should spend more in space exploration okay and who wants to spend his own money on space exploration hey those are much more than they expected to be so this is good news so there are there are several cases how a mission came together in the past and one of the ways it was done is that the government created a media stunt this media stunt could have resulted in a new industry but what actually happened is that it remained a one-time shot and what I'm talking about the Apollo program really unfortunately I have to say it was a media stunt it just happened once that's it yeah and you have to understand one thing about the Apollo program itself so there's something that really struck me once I learned this is that actually two years before the landing of Apollo 11 there was a poll on the American taxpayers and they actually 80% of the Americans where the opinion that the Apollo program is a totally bad idea we need to scrub it take out the money and do something else space is not interesting this was two years before the landing almost one and a half year after the first man landed on the moon space became so uninteresting again for the public attention that it was took out of the TV guides so the TV guides back in the 70s was your number one media to figure out when something on the TV is happening and it was I don't know the space it's just people walking on the moon it's totally boring so people don't want to see this let's look at El Bundy or something so and that's what something that really struck me so we really had just once a time where people said yes space is awesome and then of course basis it's happening it's boring okay and I think actually the goal is to make something that lasts in this case yeah so another case that is happening right now is that the government is taking private companies into into the equation and they are assisting in what they are doing and they could in theory use that knowledge to provide missions that for that provide reason fundamental science experiments or exploration but in reality this just this creates a new industry and one of the examples that you can find is SpaceX SpaceX for example so question questions later anyway yeah so one of the examples is SpaceX which which is a company that took a little money compared to what the NASA government was NASA was doing to create a space shuttle and created a rocket system that can transport stuff for example to the ISS and can do that much cheaper than the space shuttle could ever do they're not just bringing stuff to the ISS they're also taking out to trash which is quite of interesting but one thing that really strikes me about SpaceX and that's the reason why we took it into assisted business because I really like the company and what they're doing but if you go to SpaceX.com their own website and click on launch manifest and you will actually see that up to 2016 almost 90% of all launch slots are booked by NASA now is the question for you is this good or bad could SpaceX actually survive without NASA putting in all its money that's something to think about any opinions anyone thinks that is possible no okay now we will come yeah of course there is a very traditional way of doing a mission and that is actually that the government is just paying it and you know creating fundamental science experiments and one of the latest one that brought a lot of knowledge about the Mars is curiosity you can see how much experiments are actually on this vehicle it's a very awesome rover I have to say and they have a have an RTG and atomic stuff which is really awesome which we cannot get because if we if you put something radiation radiation on an former intercontinental missile then people will get very cautious okay and one thing that I found really interesting about the Curiosity mission is actually it was a really good science mission but one thing that I found really cool is that Curiosity costed 2.5 billion US dollars and landed in the same time as the Olympics that happened in the same week and the Olympics costed 6.5 billion US dollars but Curiosity had a much larger outreach than the entire Olympics which was cool so what can the private combination to one of the ways the private corporation can can do something is that it can create a media stunt and the in the best case this was the result in a new industry before being formed but in reality this just resulted in the one-time shot and the best example we could find for that is Red Bull Stratos you know if they had given us the money we could have made a moon mission which would be awesome but you know so this was just the one guy falling down quite a bit I have to say yeah but no one want to see him doing it a second time you know and the point is what just quite interesting is that the companies who were behind Red Bull Stratos there was a guy of technical companies which got together and built all these things this capsule this balloon this hardware and the suit a thing like this and these companies who came together and built all this they have already departed each other because really there is no market for I don't know selling jumps from 30 kilometer hate that's the point and that is actually I don't know it's actually from my perspective a bad thing because it's just a one-time thing you're having a lot of media attention for a year space and then nothing remains which is a little bit sad of course there is another example where a private corporation is really just creating a new industry and the one example that we have is Virgin Galactic which was participating in the Azari X price which is a former price of the Google and a X price and the goal was to create a reusable spacecraft that can take you into space and try then you can as a private person and we have four people and for and then it was that should be that should land and then restart within two weeks and go there again and for just a few hundred thousand euros you can actually do this space hop and feel how gravity weightlessness is feeling for just a few minutes and circle the earth by doing so. From my perspective space exploration like this is it's a good thing because it's like space tourism but it's a very personal thing so I think the gain is just for the few individuals who have the right kind of money and I'm definitely not amongst them. I really would love to though. Definitely. Have the money but spend it for something else. So we think that in the future there will be something else that money from from the crowd basically you and not in the form of a tax that you pay but your own personal money that you can invest to create a new industry and one of the examples is Kickstarter which is a very awesome project is running or was running on Kickstarter and you can buy your own satellite for just three hundred dollars and it will be in the low-earth orbit and it will spotnik your own name to earth and you can receive it and have your own satellite for 300 bucks. Yeah and what I have to say is what I found really interesting about all this CubeSat thing is that we actually have our main software developer Wesley which is on our team. This is a guy we really I don't know really excites me in this way because he is actually building ion engines in his basement and putting them up on CubeSat sending them to space and testing them which is totally awesome I can't really can't describe it because think about somebody doing something like this five years ago would be totally impossible so and actually today you can do something is it can do your private research in space you can waste your money on space that you can actually do this does this really cool thing and it's really good development so people get the ability to do something on their own. Yeah so basically this was what we wanted to talk you about but now we are going to discuss with you because we have we have represented you some ideas of how space exploration can look in the future but we want to have your input on how you would want to see the space exploration happening do you want to do you want to see the crowdsourced do you want to see you know Starbucks on the moon do you want to see whatever. Yeah actually I think the really interesting thing is just to figure out how to solve it because I think we all agreed that space exploration is important we're all excited about it and everybody of you one thing that I want to understand what is it actually that you want to see in space so people have visions on their own some people want to see a base on the moon like you can see on the current slide other people really want to see I don't know driving a rovers remote controlled under the place or want to live on Mars there's actually a company called Mars One who wants to send people to Mars to actually die there which is not so future-intuitive okay so actually I want to get your input on this as well so we need to understand how is this interesting is this actually interesting is it what interesting what we are doing or how actually do you see it is it important for our future so it's maybe a good question to kick it off so just feel free to ask anything you can also of course ask us about our team yeah but yeah any input from you okay okay just wait because one guy with the microphone yeah so the question is what do you want to see do you want to see yeah okay do you want to see that private corporations are taking the lead do you want to see anyone want to ask you yeah I have a micro actually I would like to see to state and private corporations competent on going to the space I'm not so interested in for example this tourism thing even it would maybe a nice way to finance more science on exploration and on the crowdfunding thing for me it would for example be interesting to help with five bucks a month and not ask to invest like 10,000 bucks for once to build a satellite with I don't know have my name on a screw or something like this more on a small scale privately found that and I think if there would be something like okay invest five bucks and it would fly two years later this would be quite amazing and also would be the media stand you know or not the media stand first thanks so as I understood it for example it could be an option to maybe if people wanted to maybe pay like I don't know five bucks a year for a mission to space and getting actually a share out of it later there's something I'm it's a bit like the text approach that would also be an option so but the only reason is that you can actually decide what you do with your tax money normally just paying taxes and you're actually not on the on the control here you can actually can't decide on what the money is spent on so it's also quite interesting approach in this way yeah but one of the things that you can use private and and crowdsourced is that you can actually you know do something like homebacher and instead of binge drinking for the rain forest you're binge drinking for space mission you know it would be very awesome if you could decide on what you're drinking for but you know I think that if you're nothing there is not much wrong with with the governmental way that is currently done but the problem is that the way the government does think is that they are depending on the politics and the politicians of today don't have the balls to do something that is beyond four years yeah beyond foreign years but that's very progressive because the problem is if if they are giving their okay on on a mission that costs like you know 500 million euros and the mission is a failure then the politician will get you know shoot and he will have a problem that he will not be reelected and so he says for 500 million bucks I really want to see a 99% chance that this mission succeeds and this is the reason why a mission costs 500 millions what would be possible instead is if we would have politicians with balls that you could say instead of doing a 500 million euro mission we are just doing a 200 million euro mission Euro mission and we are taking a chance that this has just a 30% chance of succeeding but if we don't succeed we are doing it three times and we are still saving money but the problem is that the guy the public doesn't see it this way he just sees that oh boy they spent 200 million on on the mission that didn't work and they are now wanting to redo it again so this is a distinct advantage that the private corporations have versus the government also what thing that is quite interesting you have to understand that people from my understanding have a really maybe too high expectations for what the government can do in space if you're in the United States for example and talk to people and they're always saying yeah NASA should do this or do this or maybe NASA should get us to Mars for something the point is that actually this is not the job of NASA NASA is not your personal cab driver it's not the company it's not a company which gets you to other planets that is something they actually companies are for but the point is that there's currently no way to maybe fund such a company who gets to Mars so and that is I think that is a part of the problem it's a little bit high expectations of the space agencies we really really really need to do fundamental science which is very important from our many where do you think will the companies get the revenue the profits from when it doesn't come from the government so all companies that work in space exploration do contracts for the government so they get their money eventually from the government so the only idea I once read is that that you could do mining on asteroids but that is a very far fetched approach and very far in the future so it's not something that's possible now actually asteroid mining is quite trendy nowadays yes I think they're about three companies right now want to do this I think it's quite dangerous getting an asteroid into Earth orbit and mining it it's a little too dangerous for my feeling but and you are totally right the biggest thing is these I really don't like this investor talk but this is return on investment and if you're doing a company I don't know some of you probably already have done this then you know that if you're dealing with an investor he always wants to get his money after at least five years so you got you have to make a plan which gives him his money back after five years so and doing this in space is almost impossible either you can't do a mission actually entire mission development takes almost like five years so and that is a really big issue for space exploration so why it's that is why it's currently only depending on government funding and maybe there's a better way for example it's a good example is this mass one approach and these guys actually want to send really humans to Mars and want to fund it by media work so they want to market it something like big brother or something like this and their goal is actually to get the money from the media and pay their mission cost the only issue that I'm seeing with these Mars one thing is that they're really really too expensive or maybe not expensive enough we actually had a good discussion about this yesterday I think what was it they wanted to like six to seven billion billions I don't know but they didn't plan the return rocket so this makes a mission a little bit cheaper yeah so the question is if you're if you're thinking short term you can have a high return of investment if you are really just performing a media stunt and you're just aiming for having a one-time shot not being able to repeat it a second time for example the Red Bull Stratos is a very good example because this is about the same money that we would have to take to to get our rover on the moon and the return of investment for Red Bull was in the billions he's they said something like six billions or whatever this may or may not be true but the media rights is definitely a way to go unfortunately have to say because most of the time this will result in a unrepeatable one time shot you cannot do it again because no one is going to take care of the second role on the moon interesting I don't know what do you think do you really think that we need to market everything in space we have another question but does anybody want to answer that so maybe I'm not so I'm not so happy with this thought that the NASA CEO actually said basically said this actually said hey he would like to see a mission to Mars which was actually sponsored by Coca-Cola I was just thinking like oh my god a lander looking like a Coca-Cola logo is it really the future that we want so that's the point yep but I think that that the crowd part is a very interesting way of getting of getting a new money because people can can choose with their money what they want to do and they can support the space mission that they want to see and if your cooperation is helping with it you know with a comba hostile or whatever then then this would be a good way to get money that is not from the government for example if you if you have a Kickstarter campaign or something how can you ensure that people cannot just watch the outcome of the whole project but also watch the process maybe control it to get them involved and you know emotionally involved I think this actually can go hand-in-hand as well so if you get a Kickstarter campaign and it's successful for example we're saying hey we're doing a Kickstarter and for like 10 bucks every one of you can get your personal picture from the moon like your personal postcard maybe with a saying on it or something like this so and everybody of you helps us to get this together then I think because you actually would enable two things if this is successful then you can actually go to a company like Red Bull and say hey Red Bull there are 1 million people who really care about space exploration because that is the biggest thing the biggest thing is that the media and as is the same thing with Apollo does believe that nobody cares that's the point and the problem is that Apollo proved them right there is a term Apollo effect which is from the marketing perspective which really describes an interest rate going like so and that is actually not a good thing so I think it could be a very good way to have a Kickstarter campaign or crowdfunding which shows that people are interested it's not about the money it could even be just one dollar from everybody just to show that people care about space and it is actually want to see so I want to understand if you for example care about space and this is by the way why we need to go to Alpha Centauri just to check that there is nothing going on but I think that one of the things that we are trying to accomplish is that we are trying to involve the public by having a Facebook page which you can join as well and you can participate in our in our mission and see that space missions are done by regular people like you and me and when I found out and yeah so you can take part in it so it's answered already okay else have any questions okay I had the chance to talk to you yesterday and it was you mentioned a very interesting idea which was which stands in relation to how useful it is to to get on the moon and in fact what you mentioned was the 3d printing thing on the moon basically what you just said over this I mean you mentioned an example of a postcard from the moon and people may say well that's fine but is there anything more so I wonder if you could maybe let us know about that again okay so what you're basically asking is for our personal vision of the future for space exploration so my personal vision for space exploration is actually cheating the rocket equation because that's the biggest enemy that you have when it comes to space because you want to get something in space you want to get to another planet you always have to get off the ground which I showed you earlier and getting off the ground involves the rocket equation it requires energy and this energy in the end is money and you don't care about money in this way but the problem is that space actually is really blocked by this and the way to solve this thing is actually not getting everything developed here on earth and send it up in space but build it and do it right in space and that is the goal that we have in a long time perspective it's a really really long time goal but actually for example using the moon as a jumping board to get into space actually it's the best approach to have a long-term exploration rate actually not just establishing a lunar base but having things like 3d printers on the moon who are actually capable of developing things out of regolith that is something that we've been working on it's a side project so and the goal is actually to take the regolith which is something that makes up the entire surface of the moon and build parts out of it currently everything that you're doing with 3d printing is always requiring binding materials so actually you're combining some materials and getting a structure out of it which is nice here on earth because you have tons of this binding material but it's a bet on another planet so the goal is actually to develop certain technology that you can do this without binding material building something out of the material from another planet and that is something that is really exciting so because the only things you need is this planet getting there and you need energy and that is the long-term goal for this from this perspective also something that NASA already showed for the lunar perspective is that you could easily make rocket fuel out of regolith and also normally oxygen thank you so normally oxygen so actually you have all the basic requirements to establish a base on the moon which is pretty cool and also the rocket fuel can be used for shortening the duration of getting humans to the to Mars because otherwise the travel would be travel time would be so long that people would die from radiation and if you have lots and lots of fuel you can accelerate this process and get to the moon quicker so that to the Mars quicker so that people don't die on the way to it so my personal goal is to use the moon as a gas station for future space missions basically yeah so but I think that you know beside the beside the very long perspective of being able to build something on the moon I think that it's equally important to keep people away from becoming a bank employee because we it's really important to give education to the people because this is the most important resource that we have here in Germany and I think that something like a space mission is really inspiring it's it's making people go pursue an engineering job and yeah so I think that there is much more to it than just you know being able to to go to the plant to the another planet also also there is a lot of technology that is coming back from the from the rocket science that is that people are doing into your regular you know day tools I think that is actually one of the best outcomes of Apollo and something that we want to achieve as well getting more people to become engineers and that is something that I think is really important to cause come the engineers of the future so are there any more questions yes hi you guys were introduced to us as part-time scientists can you talk a bit about what what is your day job and can can do you also know something about your competitors like how do you how do you finance that and what happens if you if you actually don't win okay so I think maybe it's best to start on your day job as first okay so I am actually a full-time scientist so I'm a little oxymoron within the part-time scientists but I think that's okay at least I can spend all my time dedicated to part-time scientists so my my PhD thesis that I'm working on is about the brain of of azimuth and how to drive around in a radiation environment but there are of course we have we have many different people in our team for example we have people that are working at the large head-run collider we have people working at home depot which is very handy if you're building robots and your robot yeah thank you and I'm actually just have a little maybe boring job I work for the government more like IT security consultant so that's my personal day job and but the thing is I really spent more time than I spent on my day job actually on this site project so maybe it's my full-time job in this case so and I really think space exploration is important this is what drives me forward towards this and you asked I think you asked about our competitors and how it is in this competition so you have to think about the Google on x-pies it currently has 23 teams participating and there's always a little bit like a ranking amongst the teams I always I think there's an external guy who ranks us amongst the top five teams it really is hard to say but the point is that all these teams are really pulling on one string because everybody wants to promote space exploration and it's really hard to guarantee that one of them will succeed from my perspective it's really important that at least one succeeds the best outcome for Google and for everybody of you here would actually be if like two or three teams succeed but it's really really hard because the problem is getting the money together in this case it's not so much about technology because technology is something we are really able to do not we but we as the people so and that is the point so actually finding a good way to finance this and not just in a short term not just like web both colors but with an outcome that lasts yet the technology is not rocket science at least not all of it but the thing is that for the money I guess it was another question the 30 million bucks that you can win are actually just like nothing if you compare it to the cost that you have on the mission because also if you're if you would spend all your money on the rocket and it explodes on the launch pad you cannot you cannot do a simple equation like okay I'm going to to get 30 million bucks and my mission cost is like 40 million and so I just need to take a credit of 10 million and maybe get the media rights for like 15 and then I'm all set this doesn't work because if the rocket explodes your screw but you can actually ensure your rocket but it's quite expensive just a short follow-up how how do you finance that you guys must be in debt no actually that is mostly my job but actually we are currently working the part-time sign is already also a small company which we have corporations with over 50 other bad part sorry we have 50 partners that we are working with which are companies like nvidia texas instruments O'Reilly or for example and they're really helping us with a lot of things then we have corporations for example with universities which we are doing a lot of scientific development with or for example with the German airspace center so that is actually helping us a lot as well and the west is actually a lot of our own money that we bring into this thing so we really dedicated to this and we really want to push basic equation because it's really important for us that's the pain yeah and if there is if any one of you you know knows someone who has like a few million or a few hundred thousands of euros on his bank account and he wants to give it to us you know we would be very thankful and you will get a nice receipt about it so we are a company yeah no but it's not tax exempt no but on a serious side you know we we want to approach companies that are actually having an advertising budget that would be big enough to fit our mission and if you guys you know you're all tutoring and facebooking about everything so if you want to support our mission the best way what that you can do is you know go to this company tell them about us and yeah maybe that would be one way to to finance our mission yeah if you understand it's actually the same thing that for example what most others worked out it's basically it's a simple equation you can actually spend like for example most companies like the Deutsche Telecom which has some PR problems today we're actually spending like several hundred millions per year on reaching people with advertisements I'm really sick of this advertising displays that I can see everywhere in the city so and the point is actually I think wouldn't it be better if they actually spent this money on something that makes something that lasts and really excites people for their costs it's something a little bit like what most letters buzzer was a long-term goal and I think it would make sense so you would have a logo of telecom on your so you would have a logo from telecom on your rover question and then we have to for a lot of money we don't care what color the rover has I just have a small question it's about how can we follow you do you have a blog do you have Twitter accounts do you have app.net I told you it's too small yes thank you so but the basic thing is and I hope it's everything is visible and if you type in everywhere hell yeah it's rocket science and you will hopefully find us and we got a Facebook community which we really really like to show we want to show everything that we're doing our development and the struggles that we have and how we can go on and yeah you will find us on Facebook Twitter and Google plus Instagram and I think YouTube YouTube as well if you can't remember explicitly what the what our slogan was you can come here and get some stickers we have those as a giveaway for you yeah so stickers for everybody you want yeah of course thank you very much that was really really interesting and a warm applause for you
 Welcome back to science. Welcome at Republica 2013. So we got a gorgeous space track in  cooperation for example with the German Aerospace Center and with the Helmholtz  Gemeinschaft and the DLR, the German Aerospace Center, is providing us really  interesting speakers. They are Carsten Becker and Romot Böhmel and they are  part-time scientists and what that means they will talk about.  Okay, hello everyone. I'm Robert, this is Carsten and as kindly introduced we are  the part-time scientists and today I want to talk to you a little bit about  rocket science and space exploration. So as I want to do a very short talk and  then start a hopefully lively discussion with you, so a very short question to get  you kicked off. Do you like space exploration? Everybody raises their hand  who is in favor of space exploration. That is awesome, thank you. Okay, so we see if  we maybe change this attitude or maybe can excited a little bit more. Okay, so  slide us up and get started. So basically I want to show you something first.  Before we talk about a little bit about us, let's talk about the guys from Google  who did something which is the Google Luna Express competition. So these two  co-founders that founded the search and Google set up and made a bet. The bet is  basically said that if you can get a rover to the moon then you get 30 million  US dollars from us. So it's basically a simple bet with three simple really hard  challenges that you have to overcome. If you want to actually get something to  the moon, the very hardest challenge that you face first is launching, which  basically means you have to get off the ground into space. It actually sounds  quite maybe quite simple nowadays because there's rockets everywhere and we  got the space shuttle and things like this, but actually getting into space  requires a lot of energy and a lot of sophisticated rocket science and in the  end it all turns out to be it also requires a lot of money. So the very first  challenge is getting into space. The second challenge which is almost as  challenging as getting into space is safely landing on the surface. So you have  to think about the following thing. Once you're in space and approaching the moon,  okay, thank you. Once you're in space and approaching the moon then you're  basically traveling with kilometers per second as speed. So we're talking about  really have to think about this unit what it means kilometer per second. It  really means that in a fraction of a second if you make just one tiny  calculation error you either go pretty on a pretty deep dive into the lunar  surface or fly make a very far away flyby and both of this has happened in  the past. Yeah those so-called TPEC impact missions they are a little bit  more easy than soft landing definitely. Actually there are some actually  scientific quite fruitful deep impact missions and actually trying to make an  best impact as possible in this case. But as said being earlier landing safely is  really hard and what is required when you want to get to another planet is what  scientists always call a soft landing. It sounds really sweet but it's not soft.  This basically means that you turn off your engines and a head of three meter  and you have three meter free fall. If you try this on Earth you will notice  it's not soft. And the second thing that is actually really the fun part of  this Google and X-Pyce challenge is being on the moon doing awesome science  collecting data and send it back to Earth. However there is this really tiny big  maybe a little bit challenging in there as well because the goal is to be on  the surface and do HD video and send it back to Earth. HD video sounds totally  awesome. You got a smartphone in your pocket and it can do HD video. You can  send it over to YouTube. It's nice but try this on the moon. You will get a lot  of problems with bandwidth and actually capturing this thing. So having cameras  that can record HD video without being blown away by the radiation for example.  Or for example get the stuff back to Earth as I said with bandwidth. It's not  just a telecom that is limiting your bandwidth. In this case it's space which  is. So and I've talked a little bit about the guys from Google giving you a good  reason to go to space. So and if you think about so-called as Americans always  call it incentive prices. So people motivating you with money. Then there is a  big case in history that comes to mind. There were a lot of incentive prices for  maybe for discovering new continents or doing different things but one very famous  one was the Oteek price. It was set out by Raymond Oteek who actually said I  don't believe that it's impossible to cross the Atlantic because by the time  Raymond Oteek lived it was 19 something. Everybody was saying it's impossible to  have a plane cross the Atlantic. And he said I don't like the word impossible.  I'm giving this big amount of money to somebody who proves me wrong. And yeah he  actually found somebody. There were a lot of people who tried cross the Atlantic.  Most of them I think most all of them died. And but there was one guy who  succeeded and we got really famous which is Charles Lindbergh with the  spirit of St. Louis. And what what this led to is basically we started out in a  time where this was impossible to cross the Atlantic and five years after  Charles Lindbergh landed in the United States he actually kicked off the entire  aviation industry that we know today. It led to the so-called Lindbergh boom. So  the Lindbergh boom was basically in less than five years we had from five aviation  airports that we have in had we had in Europe but mostly belong to the military.  We started having private airports and private airlines and today you can get  to Mallorca for less than $30. So it's all just because one man said I don't  believe the word impossible. And a lot of people tried and that waged their  life on this. So now come back to the part-time scientists this is who we are.  So the part-time scientists is a team of scientists and engineers. It's about 100  of them. We are an international team and we are rooted here in Berlin actually.  And we got subsidiaries very large ones in Hamburg Salzburg and the United States.  Okay so and basically our team is not just consisting most people always  think we are a team of students but actually just a little bit far from  to because our team consists of scientists engineers from all fields  who are actually for example partly working in the aerospace industry or  working in the IT industry or other fields that are really interested in  technology that can work towards to space exploration. So what I'm really proud  of is for example that we have people who worked on the original Apollo program  on our team as well which is really cool. For example Jack Crenshaw who was the  trajectory calculations leader of Apollo 11. So yeah in the part-time you know in  the evening we are getting in our part-time's jacket and we are plugging  into Mumble and then we're discussing what needs to be done and then we do it  and on the next week we are happy to see what we have done and this way we  created what we have now. Unfortunately not with us but I will show you a picture  of that later. Would we have something with us? So yeah okay and so basically  that is what the part-time sign is. So it's a very I don't know excited group of  engineers doing space exploration technology and we want our goal is to  change the way space exploration is working today. So we really want to give  a good struck of innovation to the way that is currently happening. So you will  show you a little bit of what our goal is. So talking about goals we got a little  big one that you can see outside of a window at night which is the moon. Our  goal as I said earlier there's a good incentive to go there and our goal is to  get to the moon and be the first to land a private rover there. And so the goal is  not just to have a rover driving around the moon it's about enabling  technology to make space exploration go further because right now we are 43 years  after the last man walked on the moon and we couldn't be more far away from the  moon than we are today. We actually know far more about Mars than we know about  moon so actually there's very good reasons to go there and to show you the  Apollo 17 landing site. This is the area we want to go to the moon. It's something  that we picked together with our friends from the DLR which is there's some  scientific reasons to it that we choose the Apollo 17. For example if you look at  it you can see that it's more like it's a little bit like a dune area so you can  see all these these hills and it's all it's a lot of sand it's actually not  sand it's so-called regalif and lunar regalif. Oh okay the lunar regalif is  actually if you look at one tiny corn of lunar regalif it's thousand it's a  thousand times smaller than the tiniest corn of sand that you can find here on  Earth. So what this means this lunar regalif is working against each other  the entire time on the lunar surface so you got some really nasty stuff up there.  This stuff is so dangerous that it actually got through the airtight suits  of the astronauts so these guys were really shocked when they got back into  their spacecraft. Take off their hand shoes. Clothes. Thank you. So took off  their gloves and had black hands so they were really scared and NASA really had  some big issues with keeping the regalif out of systems and damaging stuff and  this is something where Kast will tell you a little bit more how we are dealing  with it. And another thing which is also at Apollo 17 which is quite  interesting is of course the Apollo landing site. We worked a little bit with  NASA on this and NASA has a really strong interest in finding out how this  area looks like today because what you can see here of course this module over  there is no longer there. Somebody took it to a right home but what they  actually interested in is finding out how all these stuff still looks like on  the surface because you have to understand one thing there was one  Apollo mission who went to a surveyor landing site. Surveyor was a probe that  we sent to the moon before getting to there with Apollo and we tried to  understand how it decayed how this material was I don't know worked on  by space because the moon has no atmosphere nothing to protect you from  space and what was really interesting is that I think after a little bit like  two years on the moon this survey a probe really was I don't know really worked  out so there was a lot of ablation on the material and things like this. And  they want to take a picture of the flag and see if it's still waving and take  pictures so that the conspired theories are all you know okay so I think you  know it's time to talk about our lunar rover that we've developed with CDLR and  I'm sure yeah exactly so and so when the Google X price was set we we started to  develop rovers immediately and some of those you can see standing in front  there those are actually our software engineering models that we are giving to  our software guys so that they have something to play with and the reason  that we developed those is that those are much cheaper than the one that you can  see here you know this one is a few two hundred thousand few hundred  thousands of euros and we cannot afford to give every software developer one of  those even though they are much more fun you know they can yeah I would love to  get one of those this one can drive in serious terrain this is fun really I can  tell because most of the time I'm driving yeah so we developed some rovers  and in the meantime we learned something for example in the beginning we had a  very small rover and we developed it we made it more bigger because we realized  that we need a bigger bigger solar panel because we need more energy but I will  come to that later so what you can see here is a what seems to be a very boring  four-wheel configuration and you know all the hype is about six wheels you know  all the mass rovers they have six wheels why didn't we choose six wheels because  we make our own trends you know we are saying we are cool we're making four  wheels and those four wheels they can be steered independently so if you're if  you have more time you can you can go come to us later and you can drive around  with the small software development rovers and you can see how flexible this  is we can turn around on the spot we can drive around obstacles and this is  really the idea behind our rover that we are just avoiding the obstacle instead  of just going above it if we cannot avoid going over obstacle we can we can  lift one of the wheels and you know yeah adjust the levels it's actually the  best way to get get around the lunar surface that we found because if you  remember for example certain mass rovers there were actually missions who got  stuck on walks and things like this and if you look at this design it actually  enables you to really from our perspective get out of most bad situations  that can arise yeah we as I said we are very tested and really serious to run and  you can see some of the movies that we took about it on YouTube if you are  following us on our channel but you know there's a little bit more to it as well  so one of the big problems that we having on the moon is that there is no  atmosphere you know we cannot just put a fan on the rover unfortunately and cool  the electronics with it and the outside temperature can rise up to 120 130  degrees Celsius and but the electronics really just doesn't like that high  temperatures so we need to find a smart way to get rid of the all of the energy  that we are collecting from the Sun and so this way we designed the rover in  such a way that we can radiate the heat away from the body so that the inside  temperature is just below 100 degrees Celsius which electronics is slightly  more comfortable that but it's still kind of hot yeah it's a really nice  sounder temperature um Oscar because we are Germans where we don't want to do a  one-time shot where we just drive like 500 meters but and then everything falls  apart you know if we do something we do it right and this is why we have a solar  panel you know we have the solar panel is providing us with a steady stream of  energy that we can use for driving around and yeah if it's not falling apart  during the first day we can try for on the first day the problem is in the  night it will become minus 120 degrees and then all the beds are off because  no one is going to guarantee you that anything is surviving this temperature  this low you have to tell you have to know a little bit about the moon in this  case because one day on the moon is actually 14 and a half days here on  Earth and it really means you have a temperature shift of over 250 degrees  Celsius so try to think of anything that you got in your home on electronics that  can survive a change in temperature of 250 degrees you won't find anything that  is actually a very big thing that you have to struggle with and the reason for  example why the solar panel is a good reusable approaches because there are  actually people out there developing space hardware which can only one on a  let's say and ending fuel so you put some rocket fuel in there and let it drive  on a planet and once the fuel is out then yeah okay nice rover so and that is the  point by I think it's really good to have this solar panel which is actually  capable of capturing the best amount of Sun because of this way it turns this  panel another feature that we have on the rover is our cameras obviously because  you want to take pictures and we have two of those so that you can expect really  nice 3d HD video from the moon and those are in color we had discussions if we  need color because everything is gray there anyway but we decided that we  should have color so that you can see that if the flag is really there and  has the color on it yeah so those stereoscopic cameras they are not just  providing really nice pictures for the people on Earth but we also use them to  build a 3d map of the surrounding so that we can use it for navigation I will  show a little video a little bit later about that okay so another thing that is  very important if you are building a lunar rover that all of you have done  this probably and know that there is a lunar regulars that what was mentioning  earlier it's a very fine powder and the downside of this very fine powder is that  it gets into everything especially you know everything there is actually you  can't keep it out of the system that's the point and that's the entire reason  for protecting the system of seals so the problem is when you're when it when it  goes into mechanics you know mechanic may fail and this is a bad thing you  don't want to have the mechanics to fail if you are able if you're standing on  the moon and you can't drive this is really bad yeah you have to actually have  to understand because it the design of the seals that we've came up with is a  so-called labyrinth design which basically means we want to get the lunar  regulars to get inside the system to get a trap there so if you have a labyrinth  seal design which basically means using the material that gets inside the system  to block other material to get inside as well it's pretty complex design and I  have to admit I never understood it fully at first but it was quite nice to  see that it that is actually working which is the cool thing and yeah so that's  actually because once your drives have failed on the moon then there's definitely  no way to go this you can't pay any kind of HDAC monthly fee to get up there and  repair your over so better protected so one of the other things that we also  need is to have motors that are actually working on the surface of the moon and  for this we contacted the DLR because we are not really you know the well the  space people we have no experience doing this missions but we got into contact  with the DLR the German aerospace agency and you know they helped us with with  some of their technology that they have and the motors for example are one part  that they can do best and we are using those in our rover to drive around  because those motors are used in Toro or the former formerly known as Justin it's  a robot that is very sensitive you can it can touch and feel stuff and he can  also cook coffee so there is a good chance that you will have one of those in  your home very soon maybe not so soon but maybe a little bit too expensive I  would I definitely would want to have one of those you know it's really awesome  you know look what post you can do it but okay but the point is I think really  is that you have really have a lot of sensors in this drive I think it's you  didn't mention that this robot drive technology right no no but I don't if it  didn't then I did so and that's actually the point so there's a lot of  sensors in this brushless drives and you have to think about why using something  like brush less drive the name actually suggests why it's a good thing for the  moon because because there's actually no contact in the wheels or nothing  afflicted by the regular that could get inside this part or actually we are out  of the sometime so brushes drives are really the way to go but it's not so  easy because they are based on certain components which have a lot of problems  with the temperature shift so and that is the reason why and why we use this  drives and they were actually I think I don't know if you mentioned it but anyway  the DLR actually developed these for an experiment that they did on the ISS which  was pretty successful and quite cool yeah another thing that we are developing  with together with the DLR is for example the autonomy the total has kind of  the ability to as I said cook coffee which is which sounds trivial but it's a  really complicated task and unit autonomy for that and so we teamed up  with them and they put their autonomy software into our rovers which by the  way is the same one that is using in the Mercedes 4D sensing environment and  yeah what you can see here is that it's it's building a map of its surrounding  and with this map you can tell it to just go there which has a distinct  advantage that because the processing is happening in real time on the rover  that you can drive further than if you just you know said driving on the moon  as well because there is a three second delay that you have to take into care  when you're driving on the moon surface you want to interrupt me I want to take  this one okay and I want to interrupt you yes no I totally agree in this and the  point is that this technology really helps us to make the exploration of  another planet go much faster in this case because we actually trust doing a  lot of simulations here on earth and trying to test drive things as possible  but it's really good if you have a system which actually capable of  understanding what is good or bad on a certain environment because if you add  the distinct I don't know I was lucky enough to witness one of the  Mars rovers doing its early test runs and one thing that you can actually see if  you have one Mars rover doing a test operation in front of you is actually  that it's driving standing still looking around thinking about thinking do a  little bit more thinking and then deciding on which way to go next which is  something that takes a really long time and that is also a reason why it takes  so long to cross certain distances on another planets on Mars actually you  really really really need on autonomy because you have latencies I think more  than eight minutes so I think up to a quarter so and that is the point so  there's actually no way somebody is driving it on earth because if you drive  it and you see oh my god I'm hitting a rock and you already hit it some time  ago or we definitely will there's no chance to avoid it and that is the point  so this autonomy in the case of the moon we have a three-second delay but even  though was even still was three seconds it's a very good way to drive fast on a  surface if the rover can do this okay so I just want to kick off the next one  so one thing that is really important for us today is that as we said and we  love private space exploration we really do this stuff we really like it and we  really want to get space exploration going again so making it possible to at  some point get a base on the moon for example like this because the question  is if you think back to the Apollo program the question is why people will  love of ask you why haven't we have something like this today because back  at the Apollo program if you ask the people and they would probably said hey  yeah and 10 years from now or 20 years we will be on the moon again or we will  be constantly there and there's a lot of reason for this and the biggest struggle  that space exploration and everything that you like when it comes to space has  is always funding and that is something want to talk to you about custom  prepared to do something that would be pretty interesting for you to have a  look at how funding currently works and we want to talk you a little bit about  you what you think about it afterwards yeah so I thought about all the sources  of money that you have in a traditional space mission and or in a not so  traditional space mission and what the results could possibly be and I want to  ask you a question who of you think that the government should spend more on  doing missions and space exploration okay fair enough who of you think that  private corporations should spend more in space exploration okay and who wants  to spend his own money on space exploration hey those are much more  than they expected to be so this is good news so there are there are several  cases how a mission came together in the past and one of the ways it was done is  that the government created a media stunt this media stunt could have resulted in a  new industry but what actually happened is that it remained a one-time shot and  what I'm talking about the Apollo program really unfortunately I have to say  it was a media stunt it just happened once that's it yeah and you have to  understand one thing about the Apollo program itself so there's something that  really struck me once I learned this is that actually two years before the  landing of Apollo 11 there was a poll on the American taxpayers and they  actually 80% of the Americans where the opinion that the Apollo program is a  totally bad idea we need to scrub it take out the money and do something else  space is not interesting this was two years before the landing almost one and  a half year after the first man landed on the moon space became so uninteresting  again for the public attention that it was took out of the TV guides so the  TV guides back in the 70s was your number one media to figure out when  something on the TV is happening and it was I don't know the space it's just  people walking on the moon it's totally boring so people don't want to see this  let's look at El Bundy or something so and that's what something that really  struck me so we really had just once a time where people said yes space is  awesome and then of course basis it's happening it's boring okay and I think  actually the goal is to make something that lasts in this case yeah so another  case that is happening right now is that the government is taking private  companies into into the equation and they are assisting in what they are doing  and they could in theory use that knowledge to provide missions that for  that provide reason fundamental science experiments or exploration but in  reality this just this creates a new industry and one of the examples that  you can find is SpaceX SpaceX for example so question questions later anyway  yeah so one of the examples is SpaceX which which is a company that took a  little money compared to what the NASA government was NASA was doing to create  a space shuttle and created a rocket system that can transport stuff for  example to the ISS and can do that much cheaper than the space shuttle could ever  do they're not just bringing stuff to the ISS they're also taking out to trash  which is quite of interesting but one thing that really strikes me about  SpaceX and that's the reason why we took it into assisted business because I  really like the company and what they're doing but if you go to SpaceX.com  their own website and click on launch manifest and you will actually see that  up to 2016 almost 90% of all launch slots are booked by NASA now is the  question for you is this good or bad could SpaceX actually survive without  NASA putting in all its money that's something to think about any opinions  anyone thinks that is possible no okay now we will come yeah of course there is  a very traditional way of doing a mission and that is actually that the  government is just paying it and you know creating fundamental science  experiments and one of the latest one that brought a lot of knowledge about  the Mars is curiosity you can see how much experiments are actually on this  vehicle it's a very awesome rover I have to say and they have a have an RTG and  atomic stuff which is really awesome which we cannot get because if we if you  put something radiation radiation on an former intercontinental missile then  people will get very cautious okay and one thing that I found really interesting  about the Curiosity mission is actually it was a really good science mission but  one thing that I found really cool is that Curiosity costed 2.5 billion US  dollars and landed in the same time as the Olympics that happened in the same  week and the Olympics costed 6.5 billion US dollars but Curiosity had a much  larger outreach than the entire Olympics which was cool so what can the  private combination to one of the ways the private corporation can can do  something is that it can create a media stunt and the in the best case this was  the result in a new industry before being formed but in reality this just  resulted in the one-time shot and the best example we could find for that is  Red Bull Stratos you know if they had given us the money we could have made a  moon mission which would be awesome but you know so this was just the one guy  falling down quite a bit I have to say yeah but no one want to see him doing it  a second time you know and the point is what just quite interesting is that the  companies who were behind Red Bull Stratos there was a guy of technical  companies which got together and built all these things this capsule this  balloon this hardware and the suit a thing like this and these companies who  came together and built all this they have already departed each other because  really there is no market for I don't know selling jumps from 30 kilometer hate  that's the point and that is actually I don't know it's actually from my  perspective a bad thing because it's just a one-time thing you're having a lot of  media attention for a year space and then nothing remains which is a little  bit sad of course there is another example where a private corporation is  really just creating a new industry and the one example that we have is Virgin  Galactic which was participating in the Azari X price which is a former price of  the Google and a X price and the goal was to create a reusable spacecraft that  can take you into space and try then you can as a private person and we have four  people and for and then it was that should be that should land and then  restart within two weeks and go there again and for just a few hundred thousand  euros you can actually do this space hop and feel how gravity weightlessness is  feeling for just a few minutes and circle the earth by doing so. From my  perspective space exploration like this is it's a good thing because it's like  space tourism but it's a very personal thing so I think the gain is just for the  few individuals who have the right kind of money and I'm definitely not amongst  them. I really would love to though. Definitely. Have the money but spend it for  something else. So we think that in the future there will be something else that  money from from the crowd basically you and not in the form of a tax that you pay  but your own personal money that you can invest to create a new industry and one  of the examples is Kickstarter which is a very awesome project is running or was  running on Kickstarter and you can buy your own satellite for just three hundred  dollars and it will be in the low-earth orbit and it will spotnik your own  name to earth and you can receive it and have your own satellite for 300 bucks.  Yeah and what I have to say is what I found really interesting about all this  CubeSat thing is that we actually have our main software developer Wesley  which is on our team. This is a guy we really I don't know really excites me in  this way because he is actually building ion engines in his basement and putting  them up on CubeSat sending them to space and testing them which is totally  awesome I can't really can't describe it because think about somebody doing  something like this five years ago would be totally impossible so and  actually today you can do something is it can do your private research in space  you can waste your money on space that you can actually do this does this really  cool thing and it's really good development so people get the ability to  do something on their own. Yeah so basically this was what we wanted to talk  you about but now we are going to discuss with you because we have we  have represented you some ideas of how space exploration can look in the  future but we want to have your input on how you would want to see the space  exploration happening do you want to do you want to see the crowdsourced do you  want to see you know Starbucks on the moon do you want to see whatever. Yeah  actually I think the really interesting thing is just to figure out how to solve  it because I think we all agreed that space exploration is important we're all  excited about it and everybody of you one thing that I want to understand what  is it actually that you want to see in space so people have visions on their  own some people want to see a base on the moon like you can see on the current  slide other people really want to see I don't know driving a rovers remote  controlled under the place or want to live on Mars there's actually a company  called Mars One who wants to send people to Mars to actually die there which is  not so future-intuitive okay so actually I want to get your input on this as well  so we need to understand how is this interesting is this actually interesting  is it what interesting what we are doing or how actually do you see it is it  important for our future so it's maybe a good question to kick it off so just feel  free to ask anything you can also of course ask us about our team yeah but  yeah any input from you okay  okay just wait because one guy with the microphone yeah so the question is what  do you want to see do you want to see yeah okay do you want to see that private  corporations are taking the lead do you want to see anyone want to ask you  yeah I have a micro actually I would like to see to state and private  corporations competent on going to the space I'm not so interested in for  example this tourism thing even it would maybe a nice way to finance more  science on exploration and on the crowdfunding thing for me it would for  example be interesting to help with five bucks a month and not ask to invest  like 10,000 bucks for once to build a satellite with I don't know have my name  on a screw or something like this more on a small scale privately found that and  I think if there would be something like okay invest five bucks and it would fly  two years later this would be quite amazing and also would be the media  stand you know or not the media stand first thanks so as I understood it for  example it could be an option to maybe if people wanted to maybe pay like I don't  know five bucks a year for a mission to space and getting actually a share out  of it later there's something I'm it's a bit like the text approach that would  also be an option so but the only reason is that you can actually decide what  you do with your tax money normally just paying taxes and you're actually not on  the on the control here you can actually can't decide on what the money is spent  on so it's also quite interesting approach in this way yeah but one of the  things that you can use private and and crowdsourced is that you can actually you  know do something like homebacher and instead of binge drinking for the rain  forest you're binge drinking for space mission you know it would be very awesome  if you could decide on what you're drinking for but you know I think that  if you're nothing there is not much wrong with with the governmental way that  is currently done but the problem is that the way the government does think  is that they are depending on the politics and the politicians of today  don't have the balls to do something that is beyond four years yeah beyond  foreign years but that's very progressive because the problem is if if they are  giving their okay on on a mission that costs like you know 500 million euros  and the mission is a failure then the politician will get you know shoot and  he will have a problem that he will not be reelected and so he says for 500  million bucks I really want to see a 99% chance that this mission succeeds and  this is the reason why a mission costs 500 millions what would be possible  instead is if we would have politicians with balls that you could say instead of  doing a 500 million euro mission we are just doing a 200 million euro mission  Euro mission and we are taking a chance that this has just a 30% chance of  succeeding but if we don't succeed we are doing it three times and we are  still saving money but the problem is that the guy the public doesn't see it  this way he just sees that oh boy they spent 200 million on on the mission that  didn't work and they are now wanting to redo it again so this is a distinct  advantage that the private corporations have versus the government also what  thing that is quite interesting you have to understand that people from my  understanding have a really maybe too high expectations for what the government  can do in space if you're in the United States for example and talk to people  and they're always saying yeah NASA should do this or do this or maybe NASA  should get us to Mars for something the point is that actually this is not the  job of NASA NASA is not your personal cab driver it's not the company it's not  a company which gets you to other planets that is something they actually  companies are for but the point is that there's currently no way to maybe fund  such a company who gets to Mars so and that is I think that is a part of the  problem it's a little bit high expectations of the space agencies  we really really really need to do fundamental science which is very  important from our many where do you think will the companies get the revenue  the profits from when it doesn't come from the government so all companies  that work in space exploration do contracts for the government so they  get their money eventually from the government so the only idea I once read  is that that you could do mining on asteroids but that is a very far fetched  approach and very far in the future so it's not something that's possible now  actually asteroid mining is quite trendy nowadays yes I think they're about  three companies right now want to do this I think it's quite dangerous getting  an asteroid into Earth orbit and mining it it's a little too dangerous for my  feeling but and you are totally right the biggest thing is these I really don't  like this investor talk but this is return on investment and if you're doing  a company I don't know some of you probably already have done this then  you know that if you're dealing with an investor he always wants to get his  money after at least five years so you got you have to make a plan which gives  him his money back after five years so and doing this in space is almost  impossible either you can't do a mission actually entire mission development  takes almost like five years so and that is a really big issue for space  exploration so why it's that is why it's currently only depending on government  funding and maybe there's a better way for example it's a good example is this  mass one approach and these guys actually want to send really humans to  Mars and want to fund it by media work so they want to market it something like  big brother or something like this and their goal is actually to get the money  from the media and pay their mission cost the only issue that I'm seeing with  these Mars one thing is that they're really really too expensive or maybe  not expensive enough we actually had a good discussion about this yesterday I  think what was it they wanted to like six to seven billion billions I don't know  but they didn't plan the return rocket so this makes a mission a little bit  cheaper yeah so the question is if you're if you're thinking short term  you can have a high return of investment if you are really just performing a  media stunt and you're just aiming for having a one-time shot not being able  to repeat it a second time for example the Red Bull Stratos is a very good  example because this is about the same money that we would have to take to to  get our rover on the moon and the return of investment for Red Bull was in the  billions he's they said something like six billions or whatever this may or may  not be true but the media rights is definitely a way to go unfortunately  have to say because most of the time this will result in a unrepeatable one  time shot you cannot do it again because no one is going to take care of the  second role on the moon interesting I don't know what do you think do you really  think that we need to market everything in space we have another question but  does anybody want to answer that so maybe I'm not so I'm not so happy with  this thought that the NASA CEO actually said basically said this actually said  hey he would like to see a mission to Mars which was actually sponsored by  Coca-Cola I was just thinking like oh my god a lander looking like a Coca-Cola  logo is it really the future that we want so that's the point yep but I think  that that the crowd part is a very interesting way of getting of getting a  new money because people can can choose with their money what they want to do  and they can support the space mission that they want to see and if your  cooperation is helping with it you know with a comba hostile or whatever then  then this would be a good way to get money that is not from the government  for example if you if you have a Kickstarter campaign or something how  can you ensure that people cannot just watch the outcome of the whole project  but also watch the process maybe control it to get them involved and you know  emotionally involved I think this actually can go hand-in-hand as well so  if you get a Kickstarter campaign and it's successful for example we're saying  hey we're doing a Kickstarter and for like 10 bucks every one of you can get  your personal picture from the moon like your personal postcard maybe with a  saying on it or something like this so and everybody of you helps us to get  this together then I think because you actually would enable two things if this  is successful then you can actually go to a company like Red Bull and say hey  Red Bull there are 1 million people who really care about space exploration  because that is the biggest thing the biggest thing is that the media and as  is the same thing with Apollo does believe that nobody cares that's the point  and the problem is that Apollo proved them right there is a term Apollo effect  which is from the marketing perspective which really describes an  interest rate going like so and that is actually not a good thing so I think it  could be a very good way to have a Kickstarter campaign or crowdfunding  which shows that people are interested it's not about the money it could even  be just one dollar from everybody just to show that people care about space and  it is actually want to see so I want to understand if you for example care about  space and this is by the way why we need to go to Alpha Centauri just to check  that there is nothing going on but I think that one of the things that we are  trying to accomplish is that we are trying to involve the public by having a  Facebook page which you can join as well and you can participate in our in our  mission and see that space missions are done by regular people like you and me  and when I found out and yeah so you can take part in it so it's answered  already okay else have any questions okay I had the chance to talk to you  yesterday and it was you mentioned a very interesting idea which was which  stands in relation to how useful it is to to get on the moon and in fact what  you mentioned was the 3d printing thing on the moon basically what you just said  over this I mean you mentioned an example of a postcard from the moon and  people may say well that's fine but is there anything more so I wonder if you  could maybe let us know about that again okay so what you're basically asking  is for our personal vision of the future for space exploration so my personal  vision for space exploration is actually cheating the rocket equation because  that's the biggest enemy that you have when it comes to space because you want  to get something in space you want to get to another planet you always have to  get off the ground which I showed you earlier and getting off the ground  involves the rocket equation it requires energy and this energy in the end is  money and you don't care about money in this way but the problem is that space  actually is really blocked by this and the way to solve this thing is actually  not getting everything developed here on earth and send it up in space but build  it and do it right in space and that is the goal that we have in a long time  perspective it's a really really long time goal but actually for example using  the moon as a jumping board to get into space actually it's the best approach to  have a long-term exploration rate actually not just establishing a lunar base  but having things like 3d printers on the moon who are actually capable of  developing things out of regolith that is something that we've been working on  it's a side project so and the goal is actually to take the regolith which is  something that makes up the entire surface of the moon and build parts out  of it currently everything that you're doing with 3d printing is always  requiring binding materials so actually you're combining some materials and  getting a structure out of it which is nice here on earth because you have  tons of this binding material but it's a bet on another planet so the goal is  actually to develop certain technology that you can do this without binding  material building something out of the material from another planet and that is  something that is really exciting so because the only things you need is this  planet getting there and you need energy and that is the long-term goal for this  from this perspective also something that NASA already showed for the lunar  perspective is that you could easily make rocket fuel out of regolith and also  normally oxygen thank you so normally oxygen so actually you have all the  basic requirements to establish a base on the moon which is pretty cool and also  the rocket fuel can be used for shortening the duration of getting  humans to the to Mars because otherwise the travel would be travel time would be  so long that people would die from radiation and if you have lots and lots  of fuel you can accelerate this process and get to the moon quicker so that to  the Mars quicker so that people don't die on the way to it so my personal goal  is to use the moon as a gas station for future space missions basically yeah so  but I think that you know beside the beside the very long perspective of  being able to build something on the moon I think that it's equally important  to keep people away from becoming a bank employee because we it's really  important to give education to the people because this is the most important  resource that we have here in Germany and I think that something like a space  mission is really inspiring it's it's making people go pursue an engineering  job and yeah so I think that there is much more to it than just you know being  able to to go to the plant to the another planet also also there is a lot of  technology that is coming back from the from the rocket science that is that  people are doing into your regular you know day tools I think that is actually  one of the best outcomes of Apollo and something that we want to achieve as well  getting more people to become engineers and that is something that I think is  really important to cause come the engineers of the future so are there  any more questions yes hi you guys were introduced to us as part-time scientists  can you talk a bit about what what is your day job and can can do you also  know something about your competitors like how do you how do you finance that  and what happens if you if you actually don't win okay so I think maybe it's best  to start on your day job as first okay so I am actually a full-time scientist so  I'm a little oxymoron within the part-time scientists but I think that's  okay at least I can spend all my time dedicated to part-time scientists so my  my PhD thesis that I'm working on is about the brain of of azimuth and how to  drive around in a radiation environment but there are of course we have we have  many different people in our team for example we have people that are working  at the large head-run collider we have people working at home depot which is  very handy if you're building robots and your robot yeah thank you and I'm  actually just have a little maybe boring job I work for the government more like  IT security consultant so that's my personal day job and but the thing is I  really spent more time than I spent on my day job actually on this site project  so maybe it's my full-time job in this case so and I really think space  exploration is important this is what drives me forward towards this and you  asked I think you asked about our competitors and how it is in this  competition so you have to think about the Google on x-pies it currently has  23 teams participating and there's always a little bit like a ranking amongst  the teams I always I think there's an external guy who ranks us amongst the  top five teams it really is hard to say but the point is that all these teams are  really pulling on one string because everybody wants to promote space  exploration and it's really hard to guarantee that one of them will succeed  from my perspective it's really important that at least one succeeds the  best outcome for Google and for everybody of you here would actually be if  like two or three teams succeed but it's really really hard because the problem  is getting the money together in this case it's not so much about technology  because technology is something we are really able to do not we but we as the  people so and that is the point so actually finding a good way to finance  this and not just in a short term not just like web both colors but with an  outcome that lasts yet the technology is not rocket science at least not all of  it but the thing is that for the money I guess it was another question the 30  million bucks that you can win are actually just like nothing if you  compare it to the cost that you have on the mission because also if you're if  you would spend all your money on the rocket and it explodes on the launch pad  you cannot you cannot do a simple equation like okay I'm going to to get  30 million bucks and my mission cost is like 40 million and so I just need to  take a credit of 10 million and maybe get the media rights for like 15 and then  I'm all set this doesn't work because if the rocket explodes your screw but you  can actually ensure your rocket but it's quite expensive just a short follow-up  how how do you finance that you guys must be in debt no actually that is  mostly my job but actually we are currently working the part-time sign is  already also a small company which we have corporations with over 50 other  bad part sorry we have 50 partners that we are working with which are companies  like nvidia texas instruments O'Reilly or for example and they're really helping  us with a lot of things then we have corporations for example with  universities which we are doing a lot of scientific development with or for  example with the German airspace center so that is actually helping us a lot as  well and the west is actually a lot of our own money that we bring into this  thing so we really dedicated to this and we really want to push basic equation  because it's really important for us that's the pain yeah and if there is if  any one of you you know knows someone who has like a few million or a few  hundred thousands of euros on his bank account and he wants to give it to us you  know we would be very thankful and you will get a nice receipt about it so we  are a company yeah no but it's not tax exempt no but on a serious side you know  we we want to approach companies that are actually having an advertising budget  that would be big enough to fit our mission and if you guys you know you're  all tutoring and facebooking about everything so if you want to support our  mission the best way what that you can do is you know go to this company tell  them about us and yeah maybe that would be one way to to finance our mission yeah  if you understand it's actually the same thing that for example what most others  worked out it's basically it's a simple equation you can actually spend like for  example most companies like the Deutsche Telecom which has some PR problems  today we're actually spending like several hundred millions per year on  reaching people with advertisements I'm really sick of this advertising  displays that I can see everywhere in the city so and the point is actually I  think wouldn't it be better if they actually spent this money on something  that makes something that lasts and really excites people for their costs  it's something a little bit like what most letters buzzer was a long-term goal  and I think it would make sense so you would have a logo of telecom on your  so you would have a logo from telecom on your rover question and then we have to  for a lot of money we don't care what color the rover has I just have a small  question it's about how can we follow you do you have a blog do you have Twitter  accounts do you have app.net I told you it's too small yes thank you so but the  basic thing is and I hope it's everything is visible and if you type in  everywhere hell yeah it's rocket science and you will hopefully find us and we got  a Facebook community which we really really like to show we want to show  everything that we're doing our development and the struggles that we  have and how we can go on and yeah you will find us on Facebook Twitter and  Google plus Instagram and I think YouTube YouTube as well if you can't  remember explicitly what the what our slogan was you can come here and get some  stickers we have those as a giveaway for you yeah so stickers for everybody you  want yeah of course thank you very much that was really really interesting and  a warm applause for you
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