I ' m not desperate I honestly am laughing right now that you keep trying to argue but you have no evidence to support your claim , it ' s like arguing with a kid saying I know you are but what am I . They think they are right , but in reality are completely wrong . Now before you start saying I ' m lying please show me proof . Thank you . <| sep |> There ' s a reason they called it Kevin ' s Gate . <| sep |> C ' mon man . <| sep |> No , I pretty much think not . <| sep |> Lol when you can ' t refute my statements which i backed up with some technical and quotable information you go for an ad hominem . How surprising . I don ' t care if it was shot down by a Glenist , by a Marsian or someone else . Turkey had all its legal and military right to defend its borders . That ' s also the reason why Russia couldn ' t do any thing militarily against that even with the theatrics about the black box on live TV . You suggest that a 17 second airspace incursion is reason enough to kill two men ? It doesn ' t matter if it ' s 17 seconds , 17 minutes or 17 days . The RoE are clear and if you do something which activates the RoE you will get show down . The political backslash doesn ' t matter in that situation . Any other country would have acted the same against an unidentified military jet flying from a war zone towards your own country while transponders are off and not answering radio calls . If you can ' t or won ' t see that than i can ' t help you either .