Not quite I ' m asking you explain how rights exist independently of humans as in , in what way do rights exist if no humans had ever thought up the concept of rights , had ever written about rights in law etc . Some philosophers of mathematics think that numbers exist external to humans that if no humans had ever thought of using numbers , or all humans were wiped out , numbers would still exist in some sense . Similar to plato ' s ideas about forms . I ' m not sure if this is the way in which you believe rights exist , but it ' s a general example of things people believe to exist independently of humans , even though humans ' discovered ' and utilise the concepts . If it ' s a better example for you then consider a scenario where all humans are wiped out does the concept of rights still exist then ? If not which maybe seems to be what you ' re driving at does that mean you believe rights exist because of humans , and depend on them for their existence , but are also a kind of factlaw of nature ? If so , could you explain why it is you think that ?