Rights just exist . There need not be a source , the source is consciousness , selfawareness , life itself . Uh . no it isn ' t . Are you really not aware that you ' re just asserting this ? Can you not see how you ' ve failed to provide a single bit of actual evidence or a coherent logical argument for the position that rights exist independently of humans ? Can you explain , slowly and carefully , why rights exist independently of humans ? The rest of your post . I dunno , dude , it ' s a ramble , it doesn ' t seem to address the points I ' m makingquestions I ' m asking in my comment we don ' t seem to be getting anywhere with this discussion . Maybe let ' s clear up the first hurdle and see if we can go from there ? Can you provide a logical argument i . e . , premise 1 , premise 2 , premise 3 , conclusion kind of thing ? Where premises ' are evidentially supported and lead logically to the conclusion ? for why rights exists independently of people ? My contention is that we , humans , create our own rights . It ' s proven impossible to demonstrate that God exists , so your option appears to be demonstrating that rights somehow exist naturally . Can you do that ?