Also look into refurbished . You get a really good deal ! <| sep |> I ' m looking for an authentic . Can only find on RCS . 30 percent off is pretty good but they run that sale all year long basically and also don ' t have the 50 th patch . <| sep |> So THIS is the direction he gave which was being alluded to in the stoush with Brandis . Yeah , that ' s fucking criminally corrupt as fuck . I can ' t say I ' m surprised that Liberals would stoop to this though . <| sep |> Check your privacy settings . I can ' t see your profile . <| sep |> The south is some of the best and some of the worst about America . Best food , manners , friendliness . <| sep |> The poster you are responding to is not really using the natural fallacy , they stating what most people believe that we have no duty to intervene in nature and examining the implications to the value of an animal ' s life . You explained why the lion is not a moral agent . You didn ' t explain why we don ' t have a duty to protect animals in nature , if it ' s true their lives have value . For instance , suppose you see a woman being brutally raped . There are some cops on the corner so you call them over . They are about to save her , then they see the rapist ' s face . Oh , that ' s Jimmy , he ' s got a mental handicap , he can ' t be held morally accountable ! and they leave the woman to her fate . Obviously not okay , right ? But that is perspective you take when you say animal lives have value , but it ' s okay to let suffer and die in nature getting close to natural fallacy territory . You can say that death in nature is necessary buta that doesn ' t mean we don ' t have a duty to intervene it just means it ' s not practical to interveneb a lot of animals die in nature for reasons other than sustaining another . For instance , when male lions take over a pride , they kill their predecessor ' s offspring . This isn ' t necessary for survival it ' s just an instinct they ' ve evolved to propagate their own genes . Animals also die from disease , starvation , injury etc . Do we have a moral duty to save hungry , injured or sick rats ? c even where predation is necessary lion catching a zebra , is that OK ? I direct you back to my rape example okay , rape isn ' t necessary . But what about if that man needed a new liver or he was going to die ? Suppose he vaguely understood that but still wasn ' t a moral agent . If we caught him murdering someone for their liver , we would stop him with lethal force if necessary even though he ' s only killing them to save his own life .