Even your own source claims against your argument . Propaganda is not a state craft but it can be used as a state craft . It can be used by religion , by corporations or by individuals . In this case it fits very nicely into the Dugin Fourth Political Theory he basicly states that might makes right and Russia has to annex Europe in order to survive . <| sep |> Off to a good start . I see we still haven ' t learned the lesson from this election that insulting people leads them to changing their minds . I agree with civility , but not with obsequious false respect for wrong arguments . Which is why no one is arguing for 0 taxes . Noone said you were . You ' re making a different wrong argument . I ' m pointing out that when you tax people , you are taking their money . Not really . Pretax income is gained in the context of a society that collects taxes in a certain way . It isn ' t yours yet . That ' s just the way it works . You say that gross salary is their money . It isn ' t . Net income is their money . That ' s not my opinion , that ' s 100 % the law of the land . You can go to prison for not paying your taxes in fact you can serve a similar sentence to what someone would get for stealing the money from the safe at work . It isn ' t yours if you can go to prison for keeping it . In some abstract ways you can argue that no one owns anything , sure . But you don ' t have to make that argument to admit that pretax earnings are achieved in the context of a society that collects taxes . Suppose a libertarian learns about buried treasure . He travels on public roads to the location . He carries governmentinspected food and clean water with him . As he hikes toward the treasure he ' s implicitly under the protection of the emergency crew that will have to come running to rescue him at taxpayer expense if he injures himself . The democratically elected government can tax the treasure , or not , in any way it chooses . It may have put a 110 % tax on treasure the day before government takes it all and you pay a penalty of 10 % of the value for digging it up . Perhaps it did this for a valid reason maybe libertarians are ruining important archaeological sites and creating massive rescue mission bills by chasing buried treasure . What ' s his is what ' s left over after he settles with the society that made his endeavor possible in the first place . You say that gross salary is their money . It isn ' t . Net income is their money . That ' s not my opinion , that ' s 100 % the law of the land . You can go to prison for not paying your taxes in fact you can serve a similar sentence to what someone would get for stealing the money from the safe at work . It isn ' t yours if you can go to prison for keeping it . People don ' t necessarily get more money if you reduce taxes , even if their taxes are directly reduced . Employers may simply reduce gross compensation so that net income remains the same , in many cases . It ' s common for people to lose money if their taxes are reduced , even if this doesn ' t happen . They may end up paying more for more expensive private versions of things that their taxes were paying for a public version of , andor the loss of government revenue and spending may cause a recession . I think you seriously underestimate people ' s ability to take care of themselves . So you ' re saying there should be no social programs and people should take care of themselves ? Is that a correct understanding ? This sentiment is literally why working class people vote for Republicans . This is obviously not true , even of the white working class . Trump got about the same number of votes as Mitt Romney , but did a little better in working class and a bit worse in rich areas . He won , despite losing the popular vote , because he was running against Hillary Clinton . Among the many absurdly incompetent decisions of the Clinton campaign was the decision to give Trump carte blanche to claim he would create high paying working class jobs without disputing his economic plan . At the same time , the Clinton campaign signaled a strong commitment to the interests of the most wealthy . She didn ' t clarify what her economic policies would be , but has a track record of being paid six figures per talk plus luxury transportation , meals , and accommodation for herself and aides , of course for very short talks , to investment banks and hedge funds . Working class voters voted for Trump , to the extent that they did , because he at least addressed their economic concerns , even if he did so in the form of fantasy . We both agree that Clinton also insulted all Republican voters , plus all Democrats who voted for Sanders in the primary 43 % of Democratic primary voters and all independents who passively favored Sanders , over and over again . Why insulting at least 70 % of voters was thought of as a good strategy I don ' t know .