We could go wig shopping on eBay together <| sep |> So there are no laws to protect you against people spreading lies about you ? Well that sucks . What about the Congressional Internet preservation order , or we its called <| sep |> I just use Google Docs . It does everything I need it to do . <| sep |> Then makes it even less sensible to have SJ activism in colleges . Vocational schools merely have to teach their students the skills that are needed for specific jobs , not seek to change society to be more inclusive . Social justice on campuses is more about creating an inclusive environment at universities for minorities and disadvantaged groups , not seeking to change society . Regardless of whether you agree with it or not their aims aren ' t societal change , they ' re campus change . Safe spaces and student protests usually never deal with anything other than the school and its administration , which relates directly to students and the environment they live in . Changing society to be more inclusive isn ' t what they ' re doing . It ' s very apparent to me that an important focus is to spread an ideology . If not , SJ people would merely be teaching people not to discriminate and such . Instead , they seek to teach people about patriarchy the colonialism in our society . Stuff like this is not teaching behavior norms or combating sexism or racism , it ' s about brainwashing converting people to specific beliefs . The link you sent me was in Russian so I have no idea what it is . Regardless , while I don ' t doubt that there are ideological reasons behind many of their actions , the same can be said of nearly every position anyone takes on this subject . You want to talk about academic freedom ? That ' s an ideological view you ' re supporting . You want to talk about exposing students to new ideas ? Well that ' s actually an ideological position . You want to extol the virtues of free speech ? That ' s most certainly an ideological position . They just aren ' t ideological positions that are questioned much because they ' re so ingrained in our collective consciousness . You talk of them indoctrinating people , but for the life of me I don ' t see why people can ' t understand that we ' ve all been indoctrinated by society and our education . It ' s why we can see differences between cultures in beliefs about free speech , for instance . It ' s why you can see free speech is championed more in the US than in other places where the emphasis on freedom isn ' t completely driven into you since birth . When people speak about indoctrination they so often don ' t realize that they too are arguing for a type of indoctrination themselves , even if its freedom . My issue with SJ is that it tends to target people who have different values to force them to comply , which is different from the truth seekers . When colleges still had truthseeking as their primary goal , noplatforming wasn ' t as common as it was now . There was no time when colleges ever had truthseeking as their primary goal , and even if they did they generally didn ' t have to deal with many minorities or disadvantaged groups back then either . I ' m not saying that SJ is right , or even that it ' s wrong to be against them , but there was no magical time when universities were these paragons of truth seeking virtue . Back when there wasn ' t any no platforming there also wasn ' t nearly the same amount of diversity on campus , meaning that the issues stemming from platforming wouldn ' t have existed back then , or at least in any real significance . Again , I ' m not actually saying you ' re wrong about SJ , but it ' s really important to find our why social justice has sprung up the way it has . It ' s easy to lambaste and criticize social justice , but if we want to make any progress at all maybe we should look at the conditions that gave rise to it and address that . A very common value of truthseekers is free speech , which means that they can coexist far better with people who have other ideologies . The kind of SJ currently dominant on universities clearly cannot coexist with competing ideologies . That means that a student who only cares about learning a job cannot afford not to care about SJ when at a SJ college . She has to avoid saying or doing things that the SJ people consider anathema or risk being attacked . I have to be honest , I ' m not sure what you ' re trying to say in the part that I bolded . Not an argument , I just don ' t quite understand your argument here . Most people on campus are unaffected by SJ and go through their school life like everyone else does . I think you ' re maybe overstating the impact of social justice on the daytoday functions of a university . A lot of SJ clearly takes inspiration from Marxism and in that style of thinking , people are forced to take sides . Being neutral is being the enemy . And what do we see in practice ? SJ people interrogate people on their ideological commitment and denounce those who do not fall in line . Gotta say man , I think you ' re really stretching here . First , the article you linked didn ' t really make your case here . Some celebrities expressing bafflement publicly at how other women can ' t be feminist is hardly denouncing anyone . In fact , I ' d say that it ' s a pretty measured response that we see in pretty much all ideological positions . Liberals can ' t believe that poor people vote against their economic selfinterest . Conservatives can ' t believe that people don ' t want freedom . And I don ' t really know what Marxism has to do with anything here . They would probably would want the universities to stop doing ' male ' or ' white ' geology , or business , or law , or medicine . After all , we ' ve seen SJ denounce science as being patriarchal andor racist . Whenever they manage to gain power in a field , the result is corruption of science in support of their agenda . This just shows a complete lack of understanding about what feminist critiques of science actually are . There is literally no danger of geology or business being changed . Law and medicine , while different , do actually have gendered components for them as one deals with biology and anatomy while the other deals with legal theory , legal institutions , and the practical application of law . It ' s not abstract at all . If students are taught falsehoods like that women cannot abuse men , it results in abusive policies like the Duluth model . We teach what we know based on the available evidence . If you ' re demanding absolute knowledge before teaching something you ' re going to be not teaching a lot because most academic disciplines accept that what we know is constantly changing . What universities taught 100 years ago and what they teach today has changed , because we ' ve had the benefit of time to research things . The Duluth model operated on the assumption that pretty much most of society held at the time , that men couldn ' t be abused by women . We know more now . Hurrah ! But don ' t lay this at the doorstep of some social justice ideology when the data at the time supported that men overwhelmingly abused women as if we could peer into a magic ball and just find the truth . Truth is found more often than not from failing over and over again until you get it right . It just seems kind of farcical to me to think that there was a time when universities taught only truth . They teach what they know at the time . Sometimes it ' s right , sometimes it ' s wrong . But it ' s never always been one or the other . If students are taught that men get huge privileges and women are lacking a lot of help , it results in sexist policies where women get way better government support than men . Sure , but the same thing applies as above . This , right here , is how we find truth . And let ' s just be clear here , just a policy being sexist where women get better government support is not wrong on its face . If women face more disadvantages than men or have unique issues that they need dealt with isn ' t automatically bad anymore than EI is bad because it helps out poor people . Targeting government programs for at risk or disadvantaged groups is considered a viable state interest across the board . You won ' t find any country in the world which doesn ' t do it to some degree so I find the objection to be somewhat lacking . As it stands I have nothing against government support aimed at men in areas where they need it either so take that for what you will . To get back to the top of this post , this is why truthseeking is important to teach people to properly do their jobs . Social justice has very little to do with the vast majority of postsecondary education .