you keep resorting to insults and grouping us all together . if that ' s not the most hypocritical and ironic statement ever . . . <| sep |> How many people actually know that rule tho <| sep |> I know . I was simply saying , despite the Polaris being small , even smaller than noncapitals , it is a capital ship . <| sep |> Midway through a uturn , no less . <| sep |> Brian Eno because it would be interesting to hear from someone outside of the circle of sciencepoliticsreligion . <| sep |> Is AGL gotenks really bad ? <| sep |> Right , she says Preferences are what matter , and then we say No being on the way to being a human is important too , and she demands rigorous reasons from us , but hasn ' t given any for her own axiom . Like I said in my first response , and like she says in her first comment she thinks killing babies is also fine and basically equivalent to fetuses , she just draws a bright line at birth because she has to put a line somewhere . And it ' s really annoying that , by extension , she is saying that people who think killing innocent babies is wrong are either disingenuous or are committing the naturalistic fallacy . As soon as she says sure it ' s understandable to say that killing babies is wrong , she has already admitted it ' s not even another logical step to apply that to fetuses . They are , for all intents and purposes , in the same situation . So she should condemn people for being against babykilling , or admit that it is similarly intuitive and reasonable to be against killing fetuses . People against killing fetuses consider them babies . As an aside , she thinks she doesn ' t have axioms that she just has to take for granted , she thinks every single thing that she believes about the world is based on known quantities plus reason . The only issue I have is that she won ' t admit that we just have different intuitionsdefinitions , and that ' s totally normal , and it ' s bad to call people you disagree with intellectually dishonest andor fallacious . They must be committing a fallacy , otherwise I would agree ! It ' s not a good way to learn , and it ' s not a good way to treat other people . And yes , as someone on the same page re embryos vs . cloneable cells , the naturalistic fallacy thing was weird . It got pretty buzzwordy . As soon as you say the reason it ' s good or bad isn ' t dependent on what is natural , she should stop accusing you of it . Just because she can ' t see you meaning something else doesn ' t mean that ' s the argument you are making .